September 14, 2023 • 59 mins
What happens when we strive to balance faith, work, and our personal lives, all while navigating a secular society? Join us for a stirring discussion with Ramez, a third-year medical student from McGill, who opens up about his own spiritual journey, growing up in a sparse Coptic community in Singapore. From his early years of infrequent church visits, Ramez shares the evolution of his faith, the importance of community and the profound impact of God's love.
It's a dialogue that explores the complexities of secularism, its evolution, and its role in our contemporary society. But that's not all. We also delve into the essence of relationships, the necessity to nourish ourselves with God's love before we extend it to others, and the challenge of maintaining deep connections in our increasingly digital world. Ramez also offers an enlightening perspective on faith in the workplace, how to approach conversations with differing beliefs and the importance of serving the Lord in all aspects of our lives.
As we continue our exploration, we touch on the significance of reverence, using our professions as an outlet to share our faith, and the power of being God's servant. Drawing on the story of the three workers, Ramez reflects on the importance of faithfulness in the little things and how they could lead to bigger responsibilities. The conversation concludes with insights on maintaining a strong bond with God, the role of this relationship as a source of comfort to others, and the importance of a steadfast faith in every aspect of life. This soul-stirring conversation will surely leave you inspired and rejuvenated.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, welcome again on the third episode of
the Salt and Light podcast,where we're actually talk about
our truth, with our experiences,with some knowledge and by
using the scripture.
Today our guest a special guesthe will present himself and
he's going to present a specifictopic that I really, really
enjoy talking about and it'sactually a mission to us, so
(00:24):
I'll let him present himself.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So thank you, Bashay.
Hi guys, it's a pleasure to behere.
So my name is Ramaz.
I'm a third year medicalstudent at McGill.
The topic I've chosen to talkabout today is living and
preaching in a secular world.
Firstly, because we are in asecular world whether we like it
(00:48):
or not, especially here in theWest, and personally as well.
I grew up in Singapore.
For those of you who don't know, there isn't much of a Coptic
community there, so I only usedto go to church once a month
because the priest would fly infrom Sydney, Australia.
So growing up it wasn't a bigpart of my life and most of my
(01:13):
friends growing up were notChristian.
A lot of my friends, even inmed school now, like as much as
I love them, aren't from thefaith or believe in God, and I
really want them to know him andlove him and experience what we
experience.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I love how, when you presented me the idea you sent
me in the secular world and atthe moment I read it, I was like
I know what you're talkingabout.
And then yet, when I tried toresearch the word secular, it
was very interesting what Ireceived from the Oxford
Classical Dictionary.
So secular is a word that comesfrom the Latin word secular,
(01:59):
which actually we used to use itas a timeline, for example, for
100 or 110 years that was theword for it.
And then they use it after thatfor something called Ludi,
secular secularist, which is thesecular games.
Then they used to celebratethat every new 100, 110 years,
(02:22):
depending on when they're goingto prepare it.
But then the Christian world orthe Christian church took that
word and then made it for themonks or the nuns that used to
leave the monastery to preachfor everyone or anyone that was
(02:44):
outside of that place, theconvent or the monastery.
So that's why they call him asecular priest.
He used to leave he actuallyleaves the monastery to preach
to other people, to Christian ornon-Christian, but it was
anyone that was outside of themonastery.
And that was very eye-opening,because now we use the word
(03:04):
secular for everything that isworldly.
But it really started withthose monks and nuns that left
their monastery, or anyone thatwas in it, to actually preach
outside.
And I feel like you also are.
You're living this fromSingapore.
I am so surprised and happy tosee someone that did not have
(03:31):
that huge touch of the Copticfaith Like I've lived it.
So I know that childhood of aCoptic childhood.
But for you to have like solittle, but to be in such a I
don't know how to say, but youknow this life set, I actually
have a lot of respect that lifestyle that you chose to actually
(03:53):
push towards that and to alwayshave that in behind your,
behind your head.
I wanted to ask you do you feellike you're a preacher?
Do you do you feel like youchose to preach?
And you're one of the peoplethat is doing a vagilism?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I'd like to say yes, but and I definitely have tried
more recently but I haven'talways been, and it's funny that
you say that.
I came from like a a part of mylife where a church wasn't a
big part, and suddenly I'm a lotmore involved and I care about
(04:31):
it a lot more.
One of the big turning pointsfor me, I find, was this Bible
study we had at McGill everyThursday night.
I'm not going to name drop, butbut, I, could actually you know
what guys 630 at the NewmanCenter at McGill icon be there,
(04:59):
but basically it was a Biblestudy that people I would go to
every week.
A priest would come or aservant from church would come
and give a topic and then we'dgo out to eat after.
Honestly, I feel like that wasthe first time I really felt
that there was somethingdifferent with people from
(05:21):
church.
I noticed that they were alwaysasking about me.
They were incredibly hilarious,they were incredibly like
loving, and whenever I couldn'tmake it, they'd ask about me.
When I was sick, they'dactually bring me stuff.
It's not something I had seento that extent before and like
(05:45):
you could have a good time atuniversity without having to get
drunk or like do all the thingsthat you associate with
university and being a grown up.
You know, and the one commondenominator was God and church.
And yes, I was going to churchmore often when I came to
Montreal, but I think that waswhat really introduced me to
(06:09):
God's love.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And from that environment, I feel like the
rest, the other aspects of yourlife or your world, also follow
that or change towards that.
Is it true to say that themoment that you started really
going to church or the momentthat you felt like, okay, I want
to spend time doing this orbeing with those people, the
(06:34):
rest of your life followed thatpath?
Or was it really like twoworlds that you're living?
Felt like you've been in adilemma, living in two worlds
where I am on Thursdays orSundays.
I'm that person, but you knowwhat, sometimes I feel like I'm
a completely different person onMonday, tuesday, wednesday and
Friday, when I'm with otherpeople, because you know me and
(06:56):
you, we have friends outside ofchurch, where one of those
people where we have a hugepresence also outside of church
and we do have friends, you know, for you, I was Singapore more.
Do you feel like are you stillthat same person?
Or now that your life hasturned from this to something
else and I'm something somewhereelse and I'm sticking to that,
(07:17):
no matter where I am?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think at first it was definitely like that two
sided kind of life at first,because you were testing, I was
testing this new thing, this newchurch life, God, but still had
friends from university andlike I found, as you said, like
(07:40):
some days hanging out with thisGod, some days with the other.
But then after about a year,like I noticed that I was really
appreciative of the love that Iwas getting from one group and
not to say the other wasn'tloving, but to say that like you
couldn't manage both, likewanting to choose one meant you
(08:01):
had to deny the other.
And it's like Christ says, likeyou can't have two masters.
You know you can only serve Godor money or replace whatever
you want with money.
In that case you can only haveone master.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So you actually make the decision to let go of that
crowd, slowly but surely, as init was not because I was also in
that position where slowly somecrowds, they were caught off.
Naturally because of the time Iused to spend at church, the,
the effort I was doing was moretowards that crowd and then the
(08:41):
other, than slowly I became onlyin that crowd, or maybe 90% in
that crowd and 10% in that crowd.
Are we able to do so?
My question, because yourexperience surpasses way more
mine.
As much as I was born inMontreal and as much as there
(09:01):
was evangelism since day one andday push us, I always been
fearful of my luck to even do it.
So sometimes I would come andhelp do this or that, but I have
that limitation that you know.
I might not be as good to gotackle that and this is why, you
(09:23):
know, when I was preparing Iwas like so let's, let's.
How can I help?
In the most basic way?
And when you wrote me the, thetitle was living slash,
preaching in the secular world,and I really loved it because it
just clicked when I read.
It is the way I live and a lotof the times I could even see
(09:48):
that my kids were a church.
When I'm doing something, if Ido a bad joke or, like you know,
a gray zone bad joke, theycould pick it up and use it
against me, or like they're like, well, you're joking about that
, why not me?
So I need to always live theright way so that I'm able to
show that I actually go withwhat I say.
(10:10):
So then, when I talk, there'snothing not to be put against me
, but also against my own Godthat you know I am, I am who I
am, because I follow this man,this, this God.
Then you want to learn abouthim, you want to see that love.
Then come and see this, becauseI am doing this, what he told
(10:31):
me to do.
I have four different aspectsand I want to, I want us to
really dive in those fouraspects, and in every aspect
there's a specific application.
I think it could help us inthat area of our life to do
better.
But I want your input for sure.
You're the expert versus me,versus me, you're the expert in
(10:54):
this table.
So relationships, you knowrelationships.
I have Proverbs 13, 20 andreally hit me.
He who walks with wise men willbe wise, but the companion of
fools will be destroyed and Ireally felt that because of my
friendships and this is how Ireally connected with with that.
What do you think what can wedo in relationships that could
(11:18):
really push us from just being aChristian, you know, going to
church, doing all the checkmarksto actually living a a
pre-chill world or a realChristian life that could change
people around?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well, like, first of all, like I.
I want to make the point that,yes, like, as the verse says,
like you know, the company offools like will destroy you
eventually.
Even St Paul says like likepoor.
(11:58):
Let me find the verse One, secno-transcript, like it was
something I'm going toparaphrase for the sake of time,
but for like bad people.
Bad people like corrupt goodhabits or something along the.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
You know, yes, yes, yes, you actually do have it
somewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I need to find it also, yeah, but that being said,
Christ always was sat with thepeople who were considered
outcasts, people who wereconsidered sinners.
Like I do understand that weneed to be careful, but it
doesn't mean that I've changedmy life and now I no longer need
(12:43):
to talk to these people.
It's like no, they're just asimportant and we all need to try
and help each other out.
And now, in terms of likerelationships, I think the most
important thing it sounds verycheesy, but the most important
(13:06):
thing is love.
And because I could preach, Icould, as St Paul says, like I
could speak with the tongues ofmen and of angels, but I have
not love.
I've become a sounding brass orclanging symbol.
You know, like when a deacon islike playing the symbol but
he's not in tune, and like aBoona starting to flinch in the
(13:29):
altar, Like yeah, like that'swhat it's like.
You know me trying to preach toyou or tell you a Bible verse,
or tell you Jesus loves you, butI have no love for you.
I don't try to have love foryou.
It's meaningless.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I know that you were looking.
I just found it first,Corinthians 1533 do not be
deceived the evil companycorrupts good habits.
So I'm with you 100%, even aroad Go for it.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, like I'll give you an example, right?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
now.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Like I'm in the psych ward at the hospital right now.
I'm doing my psychiatryrotation and we're told from the
very first day that if at anypoint you feel that you are in
danger or things are about toescalate, like just leave,
excuse yourself and leavebecause your safety is more
(14:25):
important than like trying tolike be the hero or get hurt.
Yes, you're there to try andhelp the person in front of you
who's sick, you know, but ifit's going to end up harming you
, then like it's no good.
So it's like when he says to beas wise as serpents but like
harmless as doves, like you weregiven wisdom to kind of test
(14:48):
the situation.
Like if I'm hanging out with afriend who has bad habits but I
care for him and his salvation,I'm going to be there.
But when I see it startsaffecting me or I'm at risk,
that's when you need to kind ofbe careful or step both sides.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
And especially that we're in a world, in a time
where an age that we're really adigital age I'm going to call
you Liz we lose.
I feel like we lose the depthof connection or all through our
phones, we text, we don't calland we always lose that emotion
throughout the text.
(15:24):
I feel like we also between usnot only in people that we
preach or people that we don'tknow, I feel like even people
that we go in the same church welose that touch, that genuine
touch, interaction where we showlove, no matter how hard
services or how hard my day was,my week, my month or actually
(15:46):
my year sometimes.
It's sometimes just a bad year,but we don't get to the depth
of how deep God loved us and weuse that love to just bless the
other person.
And the application that I justwrote down is surround yourself
with those who have upliftedyou for sure, but to remember
(16:09):
that's all about the quality ofrelationship that you have.
It's not about having 20friends or 30 friends, or I've
talked to like 100 people today.
It's about that oneconversation that just was that
changed you from inside.
I always remember every singletime that I go and help out
(16:29):
people like other people, nomatter who it is, if it's my
kids, a church or people from onthe street or people that I
would just randomly visit.
It's always about how theychange me.
And it's so funny because I'mgoing in with that mindset of
I'm going to do some good todayand then I'm like, damn, you're
(16:54):
changing me from inside andyou're trying to get to know God
and I should be the one withGod's knowledge or like God's,
like the knowledge of God's love.
But yet you show me the truemeaning and my dictionary.
Just throw it and get a new one.
What's yours, where do I getyours?
And that's the most changingpart.
(17:15):
I remember we have commonfriends and we used to go a lot
on Mondays and Thursdays to goand help, and it's always the
same feeling.
This is beautiful.
It's very hard for me again,but it's just mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And the important thing that we need to remind
ourselves of is that we need tobe filled with God's love first
before you can give it toanybody else.
It's the typical put the oxygenmask on yourself first before
helping the person next to you.
There's so many examples ofthis in the Bible, for example
(17:56):
when Jesus says like, what arethe most important?
Like is asked what are the mostimportant commandments?
Or ask someone else.
It's the first love the Lord,your God, with all your mind
strength, you know.
And then the second one is loveyour neighbor as yourself.
Like.
The first one has to apply.
I have to have thatrelationship first in order for
(18:16):
it to overflow to others.
Even like when he feeds thefive thousandth, it clearly says
that like he then took the foodand gave it to the disciples
and the disciples gave it to thepeople.
Like it came from him, but likeit worked outwards that way,
like it has to start with him.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I've actually never thought about that little detail
in our stories.
Funny thing is that there's alot of stories that we read and
like, oh, I know what happened,but when you get to the details
of who is giving what, I'm withyou, wow, I.
It is beautiful to see that.
You know, everything comes fromChrist and it's blessed, even
the wine in the in the weddingwhen, when, when he changed the,
(19:05):
the water to wine, and whenthey tasted it, they're like, oh
my God, there's somethingcompletely different from what
we were drinking.
And they were actually notgetting the bad wine, they were
actually getting the good wine.
And it was done and they didn'thave any more.
So Jesus went and made wine forthem, because that was the
celebration, and he woke up fromwhat we he was drinking and
(19:27):
actually was mesmerized of howgood it was.
I think you were saying youwere thinking something.
I, I, I, I.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I, I was just, I was just thinking.
I remember talking with someoneonce and he brought up a point
of like when Jesus raisesLazarus from the dead, like he
knows what he's about to do, buthe still asks someone to move
the stone, like he's about toraise someone from the dead.
(19:59):
He could have he's God, hecould have moved that stone
himself, but he loves it whenhis creation is, like, involved
in his plan for salvation.
You know, that's why it's thedisciples handing out the food
and preaching to the nations,and you know it's so true
because we, we are told, youknow.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
You know, god does not need you per se, because
he's able to do it by himself,but he uses you because he loves
you.
And that's the way he showslove by creating us and by, you
know, using us and not asking,not pushing us to love him, but
for him, he's waiting for us tochoose 100% from our own will to
love him, and then he's likewell, finally, you're here, you
(20:44):
chose me.
Then here's this and that andall the blessings that I have.
Here you go, and more.
What about something more?
You know relationships.
I love to talk about it.
There's a lot to it, but when itcomes to the, you know the
tough and the tough part of lifethe finances.
(21:04):
How can I live in a such aChristian way?
Even though I am worried aboutif I'm gonna be able to pay this
, I'm not gonna be able to givetime.
I need to work.
I need to do this, this, this,this, like going to church is
(21:26):
gonna take a second, like justfor this week, or because the
try-miss is about to finish.
I need to finish those reportor I have my balance coming up.
I'm gonna skip the holy week.
I can't.
My finals is on is on the Easterday.
They're not thinking about us,but I can't forget about the
(21:46):
exam.
Like I know that feeling fromhigh school and high school was
easy for me to take some time.
I could redo the exam.
It was easy, there was no issue.
But when you mature and you getinto the real life problems or
situations you don't have thatfreedom or that environment that
(22:07):
you're able to choose so freelyand you're stuck in some way
quote unquote that you're stuckto choose this way.
What do you think about that?
How can I really turn and applyor do it differently and still
show God's love and God's way inthat world full of numbers and
(22:30):
dollar signs?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
As someone who's not making any money himself as a
medical student, like all I cansay is to like involve him in
every step of the way, like.
I'll give an example as someonewho's still a student.
I remember once there was achurch event I really wanted to
go to and I went to thebeginning but I had to leave
(22:53):
halfway through because I had amajor exam coming up and it was
Abuna Joseph.
Father Joseph from Ottawa, likespeaking at our church and like
I went to say bye to him andapologize for leaving early and
told him why, and he was likedon't worry, habibi, you can
make your study desk your altartable, you know.
(23:18):
Like you can make your workdesk your altar table.
You can involve God ineverything you do.
Start whatever you do with aprayer, even if it's like the
shortest prayer ever, involvinghim in it.
Like if it's a financial thinglike I'm struggling to pay the
like, involve him in it.
There's a story of King likeHezekiah in the Old Testament.
(23:40):
Like he had a problem and heliterally wrote it down and put
it in front of God and like likean army was about to attack
them and he's like just put itbefore God, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think we see that.
I think, when we feel like ourclose ones are going through a
tough time, we actually wrotetheir names on a paper and put
it on the altar and be like GodI'm giving you those names.
Be with them.
What I picked up, the versethat I really had in mind.
Well, I have a couple of them.
(24:13):
The first one was reallydisturbing.
That's why I wanted to talkabout it.
Proverbs 22, 7,.
The rich rules over the poorand the borrower is serving to
the lender, which made me feellike you know, there's this
oppression from money.
Then I went further, notfurther than the Bible, but I
(24:35):
was searching for an answer,because this is not an answer.
Hebrews 13, 5,.
Be content with such things asyou have let.
He himself has said I willnever leave you nor forsake you.
And it really hugged me to justfeel grateful because I know
some days like I had, days whereyou know broke is rich.
(25:01):
For me, being broke is a richlife.
And then there's days where I'mcapable to buy a new car, this,
and that you know you'reenjoying life.
You're going here and there,but being grateful for you know
experiences, time with people.
You know it's not like I said,it's not about the dollar signs,
(25:22):
it's not about what am I stablefinancially?
Because, you know, tomorrowCOVID hit and the economy was
actually the whole economy justcrashed.
And you're like what's gonnahappen tomorrow?
And being grateful for thepeople around you and people
just coming together was so muchmore powerful than any
(25:47):
financial stability that I hadfrom work or from anything that
I've done.
I was like and when I wasthinking about it I was like
dollar, like there's thisEgyptian saying God give, god
took.
God has everything, everythingis God and everything is in God.
(26:12):
So in my head, if I have thatopportunity to, you know,
advance, like, thank you Lord.
And if I lose a job, and I'm,you know, think about this or
that, or I just lose a job,thank you Lord.
There is something to it youknow.
So all about.
(26:34):
Am I stable financially?
If not, let me put God on theside and then go.
You know, work on this and belike, okay, I'll be back, god.
You know I need to.
You know, work on this, this,just to be sure, and be like
I'll be all yours after that,coming from all this, the
finances.
I think it's the same point.
(26:55):
I wrote it down because you knowas much as we're talking about
stability financially, sometimesworking.
Or you know there's a lot andchoosing your career and doing
what you love could be couldpush you to.
You know, neglect, church causeyou're just working.
You know you have this shift onSunday.
(27:17):
I can't come.
Or you know I need to work in acountry where there's no masses
.
So what am I supposed to do?
What do you think about?
Like, how can I praise God inmy work?
It's a big, I think it's atopic in itself.
But if I wanna, you know, showGod, show the Lord's love, in my
(27:42):
work, you know how can I dothat?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
There's a verse, I think, in Colossians that says
like when you do something, doit heartily and unto the Lord.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You, as if you read my notes cause that's what I
highlighted Colossians 3, 23 to24,.
And whatever you do, and do itheartily as to the Lord and not
to men, knowing that from theLord you will receive the reward
of the inheritance, for youserve the Lord Christ.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, like, for example, like as myself as a med
student like sometimes you havea lot of patience to see in a
day and every time you see apatient you have to write a note
for them.
And by the end of the day,sometimes you just wanna like
get everything done quickly soyou can leave.
(28:32):
But then we're told to seeChrist in everybody and like
when I walk into that hospital,when I leave that hospital room,
like did I just serve the Kingof Kings?
Like did I treat that person asif they were Christ himself?
And I know, people aren'talways pleasant to deal with and
(28:55):
it's not always easy, but sincewhen is anything in
Christianity easy, you know?
And I feel like just giving ityour best and reminding yourself
that it's not for you, it's forhim.
He's the one who gave you thesetalents Helping others in your
(29:20):
workplace, being kind to others.
I think that's the best way topreach, like in a hospital, for
example, you have nurses, youhave PABs, you have social
workers, you have everybody.
There's one hospital ward, atthe Children's Hospital, where
(29:40):
they call everybody by firstname.
There's no hierarchy.
There's no doctor, this ornurse that, or it's like hi,
sarah, hi, this, hi, you know,like we're all on the same page,
the same struggle.
We're trying to work together.
Not sure if what I'm saying ismaking sense.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
No, it is making sense.
My only question or what wouldchallenge you is how about if?
Because sometimes people dostand so like we're in an age or
era where everyone has a standabout something and sometimes
this question perspective is notas well taken as we want,
(30:27):
because it's such a badperspective to have regarding
all those new perspectives orthis new liberating perspective,
and people think that we'revery like closing, closed down
or not open enough.
What is your answer to that?
Well, we're trying to shareGod's love, you know, and people
(30:51):
that are living their life inso different colors.
How can we, by using this, belike you know what?
I do have my beliefs, but I'mstill here to show you love, and
at work, or mainly at work,because this is where you, you
know, 40 hours a week minimum,you know, sometimes we do 50, 60
(31:12):
hours, and that's the peoplethat we see the most how can you
put your belief with all this,with everything that they are,
and make it work?
and not lose your head.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
It's a very loaded question.
I'll say a few things.
The first thing is like, forexample, even with some of my
very close friends at med school, the moment I say the words, or
in the name Jesus, you can kindof tell the look in their face
changes and they're notlistening to you as clearly and
(31:48):
you know so.
Like you don't have to do that.
Like you, for example, one ofmy friends was going for like a
little bit of a break through ahard time and I like said I'm so
sorry, like I'll pray for you.
You know, and like, and she'snot religious or anything, and
she didn't really respond to it.
(32:08):
And then, like months later,this friend was like hey, can
you please pray for me?
I'm going through this and this.
Like not that she believed inGod all of the sudden or
something, but there wassomething there.
You know the other thing aboutpeople nowadays it's very easy
for people to shout theiropinion at you and to impose it
(32:29):
and if you don't agree, likeyou're considered all the bad
things in the world.
I'll give you like an analogy Iheard once where there was a
pastor speaking at a universitycampus about something and one
of the questions in the Q&A wassomething along the lines of
(32:50):
like why do Christians hate gaypeople?
And like he said, well, firstof all, like we preached love,
like we don't preach to hateanybody, but that's what we'll
put that aside for now.
He says what kind of society doyou think we live in?
He says I'll give you threeexamples.
The first one is a theonymoussociety, theo meaning God, and
(33:17):
no most meaning law.
So that means in this is atheoretical society, everybody
has God's law engraved in theirhearts and they all follow that
law.
The second one is aheteronymous society.
So that means there are a fewpeople who tell you what's right
and what's wrong.
You see this a lot in likeSaudi Arabia and like Islamic
(33:42):
states like that, where thereare a few clerics telling you
what's right and what's wrong.
And then the last one's anautonomous society, auto meaning
self.
So I decide what's right for me.
I set my own laws, my ownmorality, everything.
I can choose to follow God.
I can choose to do whatever Iwant.
And then so he asked her whatsociety do you think we live in?
(34:05):
And she said an autonomoussociety.
And he's like okay, so youclaim we live in an autonomous
society.
But as soon as I give myopinion on something, you
suddenly turn it into aheteronymous society and tell me
what I need to believe in.
Not that I think this is how weshould be talking to people at
work.
I'm just saying that's the kindof hypocrisy of saying that
(34:30):
we're in a politically correctenvironment, yet saying there's
only one right opinion.
We forgot how to have adialogue and how to talk to each
other and to agree to disagree.
The best thing to do is to findthe similarities between us.
Like, for example, at the endof my second year of med school,
there was a big gathering on aboat.
(34:53):
We were gonna like celebratefinishing the second year of med
school and I was going and Iwas asking one of my friends
she's Jewish like if she wascoming.
It was on Friday night and shesaid, oh, I can't.
I'm like how come?
She's like, oh, it's theSabbath, and like I was so
impressed, you know, and I toldher, like good for you, honestly
(35:15):
, that you value God's law, thatyou're not gonna party or like
do anything that you wouldn't doon the Sabbath because you're
so faithful.
Well, there's me going to thisboat party on a Friday when
we're supposed to be fasting andwhen Christ was crucified.
(35:37):
You know what I mean.
And like there's a famous storyI'm not sure if it's a specific
saint or not or just a desertfather story, but there were two
monks walking with each otherand there was a pagan man
worshipping and one of the monkswas like you're a pagan, you're
worshipping an idol, all thatstuff.
(35:57):
And then the other guy likesays, oh, that's so.
Like noble of you to carry allthis wood and to worship your
God and in the end, like thatsecond man's comment ended up
converting this guy to aChristian later on.
You know, like we need to findthe things that make us alike
(36:18):
and to build those connections,and we're never all gonna agree
on everything.
Like I might have a favoritefood.
You might think it's disgustingdifferent thoughts on music.
The same thing applies to faith.
Like I'm allowed to believe inwhat I believe in.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
And it's so true because, as much as it's a story
the two monks, I think it's ofan entity, but I'm not sure,
don't call me on that.
I've also, unfortunately, seenpeople.
When you're trying to bringback someone, you know someone
that actually lived in churchbut chose like you know what.
It wasn't what I thought itshould be, and it's more toxic
(36:59):
that I thought like more toxicthat I could handle.
You know, the world is nicerthan how you're treating me,
which is sad, but sometimes youknow we're all.
We do mistakes and it happens Ihit the same person at the same
time and we work like certainpiece, work very hard to bring
those people back.
You know, slowly but surelyThen they come back and it's one
(37:20):
bad word from someone andthey're like, okay, done, I'm
not coming back again.
And it's like, if we're able tojust take a second, and you
know, let people be and not beso stuck up on rules and
regulation and this, and thatlike I'm talking more about
church, or like, oh my God, weneed to be doing this at church
(37:42):
and we should respect the Lord'splace.
And I'm like I one day I was, Iwas generally thinking about it
.
I'm like what?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
am.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I Like I'm his servant and I'm barely saying
I'm his servant and, like youknow, I'm barely capable to even
stand in front and say, and Ishould not, from all the trouble
that I make or all the issuesthat I'm going through, I
shouldn't be even be a front ofanything.
And why am I now being like, oh, we should be doing this and we
(38:17):
should be like, watch the timeand, like you know, start to
start to tell people what to doand want not to do at church,
when it's not even your houseand it's the kings of kings, the
king of kings house, and you'renot even a servant.
He's like who do you think youare?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, there was a story actually once from our
church where there was avisiting priest praying with
Father Peter and he had a lot oflittle kids, like young
children, and one of them wasmaking a lot of noise and the
mom was trying to calm him downand at some point one of the
(38:58):
older deacons kind of marches toher and like starts destroying
her on the spot in church,saying like how dare you, this
is the house of God.
And she was later found cryingthis is a Taswani of the
visiting priest, the wife of thevisiting priest crying and one
(39:21):
of the servants went to see ifshe was okay and stuff.
And she said, you know what, if, like, I wasn't the wife of a
priest, that could have been mylast time in a church, you know.
But while not to say thatmaintaining reverence in the
church is bad, like you couldhave gone to this woman and
calmly said, like there's acrying groom, if your kid is
(39:45):
like a little too active rightnow, or like help them out.
You know, like having being amom with like three young kids,
like you know.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Being a mom in itself is a miracle.
Sometimes I think, god, I'm aman, but I'll just not.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's next week's episode.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
But one thing that I wrote down for this it's where
it gets on, just about thepaycheck right.
There's way more.
So we could actually look forpassion and work with passion,
that, even though you're notpreaching, like you say saying
the name of Jesus Christ everynow and then or like preaching
(40:28):
about Him, at least I am seekingpurpose in my profession, I am
putting my A1 game all the time.
I'm not least, I'm showing thatI'm a hardcore worker and
everything that I do and then belike then let people wonder
what is it about us?
That is different.
Like you said, I've also knowna lot of Jewish people and, for
(40:54):
example, we were young and wewere, we were text a lot, but
from Friday to Saturday, zerotext, not even one, not even
like.
It's.
There's a moment she disappears, he disappears also and I only
hear about, like hear from themon Sunday.
I really respect it and I'mlike wow, sometimes a church.
(41:16):
I'm like I receive like amessage from on my.
I need to like answer quicklyor or like I have this call,
I'll be right back.
I just walk in the back, getthe call come back.
It's beautiful when we show andeverything that we do, 100%.
You know we give it 100% ofourselves and we show like the
dedication that our Lord, JesusChrist, showed.
(41:38):
But we're showing the samething in our profession our
little things.
And there's this story of thethree workers where they were
given talents and the answer isyou've been faithful.
The little things, you'll begiven greater things, and that's
(42:03):
how the Lord is working with us.
It's gradually right.
He gives you a small thing, youdo it, you get better, you're
stronger, you're able to takemore and you go on to become
someone greater and we can ableto change people's heart.
So hopefully, like hopefullyfor myself, I'm able to get to
(42:25):
that point.
The last one is is I made itgeneral, I wrote it down as life
in general because, you know,everyone has their own, you know
, aspect in life.
Maybe I'm into sports, or Ihave this kind of, you know, I'm
a mom and I, like, I'm marriedand I have three kids, you know,
and I have this, or I am thisyouth going through university
(42:46):
and I have, I have this kind ofenvironment.
Or I am, I'm retired and I havethis, this, you know, this life
, this different life that iscompletely different than any
other.
Or I'm just a kid, you know,just growing up and I haven't
seen much of life, you know, 22,.
That's all the right, but inlife, in life in general, how
(43:14):
can we, how can we, you know,make it just God's way?
How can we continuously make itGod's way?
Because I work, I could workreally hard to make it.
You know, showing that I'mdedicated, so I'm showing God's
work in finances, be like, okay,I don't mind, like I'll make my
(43:38):
finances all about God, put itunder his hands, or my
relationships.
I'm going to try to make it,you know, 100, genuine and full
of love.
But there's times where, likeyou're just in your in your head
, or you're just doing otherthings on your own, or you're
just not in those circles, where, what, should I just play,
(43:59):
pause and be like, relax, veg abit and come back and work as
God's soldier?
Or is it a continuous work?
What do you think?
Do we take pauses because we'renot capable, or are we capable
and we should thrive for it?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Like I feel like we should, of course, thrive for it
and continue to keep struggling.
But how do I say this?
Like it's an uphill battle.
It's not always easy.
It's always referred to as aspiritual warfare.
Like Christ himself says,narrow is the path or the
(44:43):
doorway that leads to life, andthere are few who go through it,
you know.
But I think it's that continualstruggle to maintain that
relationship, maintain that walkwith God.
There's a good verse from one ofthe Psalms of David that says
like the Lord is, that is everbefore me, he is at my right
(45:04):
hand, so like having him alwaysin front of you, like leading
the way, leading everything I do, like taking a moment to like
stop and breathe, or just likefocus on your heartbeat.
There's a wonderful book calledBecoming a Healing Presence by
(45:28):
Dr Albert Rossi.
I think he's an OrthodoxChristian, but he's also like
PhD in psychology andpsychotherapy, I think.
And like I got that book and Iwas expecting to read like how
to like tips on how to be abetter person around other
(45:50):
people, you know.
And then the entire book isabout developing my relationship
, practicing my breathing, howto link my breathing and my
heartbeat to prayer, like it wasall focused on you and your
relationship and, naturally,through focusing on your
relationship with God and yourlove for him, that love
(46:11):
overflows and that's whateventually becomes a healing
presence to others.
Like a lot of people who preachby living, like or by their
actions may never say his namein front of others, but people
notice some things different.
I don't know if I'm answeringyour question but, like I think
(46:33):
the key thing is to, as theverse says, always have him
before you.
He's at my right hand that I'mnot going through this alone.
In every situation, whether I'mstudying, at work, having
trouble with a relationship in amarriage with kids, like, at
(46:54):
the end of the day, he needs tobe involved.
Like, for example, in marriage,they always talk about the
triangle.
Like each corner is the threepeople in the relationship, the
top being God and the man andthe woman.
And like, even when things gethard with the man and the woman,
(47:14):
as long as that's like, theconnection with God is there,
like it's still possible tomaintain it.
You know, I don't know.
Have I answered your question?
Speaker 1 (47:25):
or is there something you?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
want me to?
No, no, no, I was just gonnaadd to it.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
And it's this verse was told the first time I heard
it was.
I was a kid and it was a superlike.
It was a superhero moment.
I'm like I am Christian.
I'm gonna read it and you'regonna know what I'm talking
about.
Romans 12 to and do not beconfirmed to this world, but be
transformed by the renewing ofyour mind that you may prove
(47:54):
what is that good and acceptableand perfect will of God.
And you're like I'm never gonnachange.
You know I'm always gonna.
Like I was a kid, I was alwaysfull of hope.
You know, I've felt like lifewas gonna be easy.
You know I'm gonna just beChristian, I'm gonna score in it
.
And you're like, nah, life kicksyou hard.
When you get older, it kicksyou really hard.
(48:16):
And sometimes you're like likethere's a time in my life where,
like you know what I also don'twant to hear about anything
about, about God, because youknow, I grew in it and I'm like
I've seen so so much.
That was not what I thought itcould, it was and it could be.
And you're like I need to thinkabout this.
(48:37):
I there's something that isn'tworking.
And when I really was in the,you know the, the lowest point
of my life.
You, you, you think about itand you're like, no, there's
something there.
(48:57):
My identity starts with beingChristian, the rest comes with
it.
And you're like, okay, this isjust life kicking me from side
to side, because I'm trying.
I'm trying to be, you know,still and firm with God.
So they're trying to push meover, but I need to understand
what's the world.
Problems Should not affect myrelationship with as much as,
(49:21):
like you know, you come back andyou're like happen, where you
still get those, you know, weakmoments and up and you stand up
again and you try again.
And this is like you said thisis a, it's it throughout your
lifetime.
It's like it's a challenge andit's a, it's a warfare that
you're gonna go throughthroughout your lifetime.
It's not gonna stop or enduntil the actual end, your end
(49:43):
or the world's end.
But for me it was okay.
You're gonna gonna see a lot ofthings.
You're gonna go through a lot,a lot of things.
Have you like, use what youcould use from the world that
could help you, but never Changeyour, your direction from God.
And and this is where all theverses that I've read is the
(50:06):
moment I Put, I said, my footoutside of God's presence or
God's love.
For God's direction I want awhirlpool of like trouble and
and and Noise and I'm lost and Idon't know what to do.
And I'm going left and rightand I'm just, you know, lost for
(50:27):
direction.
You know, when you're lost, youstart, like the first thing
that we do when we're lost, whenwe're driving, we lower the
music, which has nothing to dowith directions, but it just
clears our mind to just thinkclearly and be like where am I
going?
Where can I go?
How can I adjust my car to goback to the, to that direction,
(50:47):
towards my little place?
Speaker 2 (50:50):
where.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
I'm going, which is for me, is God heaven.
You know heaven is being sofunny.
How for me was a destination.
Want to get the heaven where,if you're with God now, you're
technically in heaven.
You know it's so funny to saythat, but you know heaven is
God's presence.
So then here are, after you'rewith him.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
And and it's just reminding yourself that, no
matter what situation you are inyour life, whether you're close
to God or not, or Arestruggling like, he's always
there.
There's Another some of Davidwhen he says like when I'm in
heaven, you are there.
When I'm in sheol in hell, youare there.
There's another saying it's notfrom the Bible, but it's like
(51:36):
sometimes God allows you to Hitrock bottom so you can realize
he's the rock at the bottom.
You know he's the one holdingyou up.
Or that, that analogy thatwe've all heard about the
footprints in the sand and thathe was the one carrying you
during those roughest times.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, it's, I'm with you.
The only thing that I wrote forapplication, especially for any
time, in any situation or anyenvironment, is to always take
time to self-reflect, somethingthat my my peace of confession,
my father of confession, tellsme is at the end of the day.
(52:15):
Sit down, take five minutes,think about everything that you
did right, everything that youdid wrong or things that you
could have Done better, andthink about it and note
something, and then start yoursecond day by that, or at least
you've noted down, you have inmind that you've done this wrong
once, you could do itdifferently, so that you, when
you're stuck or you findyourself in that situation, you
(52:38):
do it better.
So I feel like self-refer along time is something that we I
I under estimate, becauseyou're busy doing this and
running from work and I havethis that you're like I go back
home.
I actually sometimes I go backhome, I throw myself in bed and
I snore like I am just knockedout.
(53:00):
Some days are like this, but365 days of the year, I said
myself long.
It's impossible that the wholeyear is like this.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Right, my body is not gonna sustain and we always say
we'll do it tomorrow, we'regonna do it later.
And the thing is like SaintJohn the Baptist and Jesus.
The first words they say in theGospels are like Repent now,
for the kingdom of heaven is athand.
Like it's here In the Psalms itsays like be still and know
(53:30):
that I'm God.
Like you need that Stillness.
That's why that book talksabout heartbeats and breathing
and just taking a moment to likePray God's name.
There was actually an analogyin the book, a story where there
was a little boy at thedoctor's office, three years old
, and the doctor was listeningto his heart and the doctors,
(53:56):
like, do you want to hear yourheart?
And he gives the kid thestethoscope and the kid listened
and he hears his heart beatingand he's like is that Jesus
knocking on the door?
This is like a three-year-oldkid and the author was so blown
and Like that awareness at thatage.
Like every moment is a chance toconnect.
You know it's like you weresaying we disconnect, we
(54:19):
separate this from God.
Like we need to include him ineverything, like Everything that
you go through, whether it'swork, pleasure, like that's how
you get through it.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
And funny thing is that I do ask my kids and and I
was, I was trying to understandtheir perspective and Are they
gonna have more like?
I asked them do you thinkknowing God when I was, when,
when you're young, is, is easier, or at least You're more
capable when you're young orwhen you're older?
Funny thing is most of themtold me when you're older and
(54:54):
I'm like you do not know howmuch stuff hits you when you get
, when you hit.
I remember when I hit 18 firstjob, like real problem, came at
me, like really, and I'm like,wow, I actually just got.
I just turned 18, like give mea minute, give me a day.
(55:16):
But it's true as like I thinkone of the biggest application
that we could recommend is takeaction ASAP, as soon as possible
.
If you're thinking about it, doit.
I remember Someone told me ifyou, if you're like just you
know, chilling around, or andyou haven't prayed yesterday,
(55:38):
it's okay, or you have, you had,you did pray and on the spot,
you thought you in the metro andyou thought I want to pray,
pray, see our father, and that'sit, you're done.
But if you're thinking about it, do it.
You know it's okay, it's extrapoints, you're not losing
anything, do it.
And if you want to do somethinggood to it For no reasons, just
(56:00):
do it.
You have.
I do have those moments where Ilike it's want to do I don't
like, especially when I'm reallyI have a bad time trying to do
something good to feel okay.
It's so funny cuz I'm trying todo good for other people.
I'm just, I want to be betterinside.
That's how I feel better.
But Just do it, like Nikekilled it with.
(56:23):
Just do it.
So people just do it.
It's so funny because it's it'sthe best for sports is take the
go, go do exercise.
Well, it's the same thing.
Like you said, your spirituallife is like your muscle.
You need to constantly do it.
I'll let like I don't know ifyou have anything else to tell
(56:45):
us.
No, because I've learned a lot,by the way, I'm not gonna lie.
I always learn.
I honestly, every conversationI have with you guys is such, is
so fulfilling.
So, yeah, just do it.
Ground yourself with in values.
That promotes truth, nobility,purity, like the verse says a
Philippians 4 8.
Finally, brethren, whateverthings are true, whatever things
(57:09):
are noble, whatever things arejust, whatever things are pure,
whatever things are lovely,whatever things are of good
report, if there is any virtueand if there is anything
praiseworthy, meditate on thesethings and like the verse I want
to finish with, it's from AtJohn 13, 35.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
By this all will know that you are my disciples.
If you have love for oneanother, at the end of the day
it's they will know you by yourlove.
They won't know you by yourtheology, by your Words, by
anything.
It'll be by your love and howyou show it to them.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
You know we're gonna know when we're gonna be in that
casket.
You're gonna see them.
The funeral you're gonna seefrom the family gathering You're
gonna see the love, not thedollar sign, not all those
worldly you know Objectives.
It's really with how much loveyou give to that person around
you.
Very true.
Thank you so much.
(58:11):
The rum is for coming today andreally opening up about this.
I know it's sometimes it's verytouchy to even open up.
You know, talk about preachingor a living hot, a peach.
You know Ego is always at atthe door, like pushing us to
play in your inner heads and Ithank you for taking the
opportunity and come and talkabout it for other people to
(58:31):
listen, for you.
Thank you guys for tuning inagain for our podcast.
A third episode.
Please share, please continuesharing, liking, comment also
what kind of activities you door what kind of solutions you
have to show God's love in youractions, in your life, to really
Push the other person next toyou to maybe taste God's love
(58:54):
for a glimpse of a moment.
Thank you again, ramesh, thankyou people, and see you in the
next episode.
You.
Hey everyone, welcome again on the third episode of
the Salt and Light podcast,where we're actually talk about
our truth, with our experiences,with some knowledge and by
using the scripture.
Today our guest a special guesthe will present himself and
he's going to present a specifictopic that I really, really
enjoy talking about and it'sactually a mission to us, so
(00:24):
I'll let him present himself.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So thank you, Bashay.
Hi guys, it's a pleasure to behere.
So my name is Ramaz.
I'm a third year medicalstudent at McGill.
The topic I've chosen to talkabout today is living and
preaching in a secular world.
Firstly, because we are in asecular world whether we like it
(00:48):
or not, especially here in theWest, and personally as well.
I grew up in Singapore.
For those of you who don't know, there isn't much of a Coptic
community there, so I only usedto go to church once a month
because the priest would fly infrom Sydney, Australia.
So growing up it wasn't a bigpart of my life and most of my
(01:13):
friends growing up were notChristian.
A lot of my friends, even inmed school now, like as much as
I love them, aren't from thefaith or believe in God, and I
really want them to know him andlove him and experience what we
experience.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I love how, when you presented me the idea you sent
me in the secular world and atthe moment I read it, I was like
I know what you're talkingabout.
And then yet, when I tried toresearch the word secular, it
was very interesting what Ireceived from the Oxford
Classical Dictionary.
So secular is a word that comesfrom the Latin word secular,
(01:59):
which actually we used to use itas a timeline, for example, for
100 or 110 years that was theword for it.
And then they use it after thatfor something called Ludi,
secular secularist, which is thesecular games.
Then they used to celebratethat every new 100, 110 years,
(02:22):
depending on when they're goingto prepare it.
But then the Christian world orthe Christian church took that
word and then made it for themonks or the nuns that used to
leave the monastery to preachfor everyone or anyone that was
(02:44):
outside of that place, theconvent or the monastery.
So that's why they call him asecular priest.
He used to leave he actuallyleaves the monastery to preach
to other people, to Christian ornon-Christian, but it was
anyone that was outside of themonastery.
And that was very eye-opening,because now we use the word
(03:04):
secular for everything that isworldly.
But it really started withthose monks and nuns that left
their monastery, or anyone thatwas in it, to actually preach
outside.
And I feel like you also are.
You're living this fromSingapore.
I am so surprised and happy tosee someone that did not have
(03:31):
that huge touch of the Copticfaith Like I've lived it.
So I know that childhood of aCoptic childhood.
But for you to have like solittle, but to be in such a I
don't know how to say, but youknow this life set, I actually
have a lot of respect that lifestyle that you chose to actually
(03:53):
push towards that and to alwayshave that in behind your,
behind your head.
I wanted to ask you do you feellike you're a preacher?
Do you do you feel like youchose to preach?
And you're one of the peoplethat is doing a vagilism?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I'd like to say yes, but and I definitely have tried
more recently but I haven'talways been, and it's funny that
you say that.
I came from like a a part of mylife where a church wasn't a
big part, and suddenly I'm a lotmore involved and I care about
(04:31):
it a lot more.
One of the big turning pointsfor me, I find, was this Bible
study we had at McGill everyThursday night.
I'm not going to name drop, butbut, I, could actually you know
what guys 630 at the NewmanCenter at McGill icon be there,
(04:59):
but basically it was a Biblestudy that people I would go to
every week.
A priest would come or aservant from church would come
and give a topic and then we'dgo out to eat after.
Honestly, I feel like that wasthe first time I really felt
that there was somethingdifferent with people from
(05:21):
church.
I noticed that they were alwaysasking about me.
They were incredibly hilarious,they were incredibly like
loving, and whenever I couldn'tmake it, they'd ask about me.
When I was sick, they'dactually bring me stuff.
It's not something I had seento that extent before and like
(05:45):
you could have a good time atuniversity without having to get
drunk or like do all the thingsthat you associate with
university and being a grown up.
You know, and the one commondenominator was God and church.
And yes, I was going to churchmore often when I came to
Montreal, but I think that waswhat really introduced me to
(06:09):
God's love.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And from that environment, I feel like the
rest, the other aspects of yourlife or your world, also follow
that or change towards that.
Is it true to say that themoment that you started really
going to church or the momentthat you felt like, okay, I want
to spend time doing this orbeing with those people, the
(06:34):
rest of your life followed thatpath?
Or was it really like twoworlds that you're living?
Felt like you've been in adilemma, living in two worlds
where I am on Thursdays orSundays.
I'm that person, but you knowwhat, sometimes I feel like I'm
a completely different person onMonday, tuesday, wednesday and
Friday, when I'm with otherpeople, because you know me and
(06:56):
you, we have friends outside ofchurch, where one of those
people where we have a hugepresence also outside of church
and we do have friends, you know, for you, I was Singapore more.
Do you feel like are you stillthat same person?
Or now that your life hasturned from this to something
else and I'm something somewhereelse and I'm sticking to that,
(07:17):
no matter where I am?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I think at first it was definitely like that two
sided kind of life at first,because you were testing, I was
testing this new thing, this newchurch life, God, but still had
friends from university andlike I found, as you said, like
(07:40):
some days hanging out with thisGod, some days with the other.
But then after about a year,like I noticed that I was really
appreciative of the love that Iwas getting from one group and
not to say the other wasn'tloving, but to say that like you
couldn't manage both, likewanting to choose one meant you
(08:01):
had to deny the other.
And it's like Christ says, likeyou can't have two masters.
You know you can only serve Godor money or replace whatever
you want with money.
In that case you can only haveone master.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So you actually make the decision to let go of that
crowd, slowly but surely, as init was not because I was also in
that position where slowly somecrowds, they were caught off.
Naturally because of the time Iused to spend at church, the,
the effort I was doing was moretowards that crowd and then the
(08:41):
other, than slowly I became onlyin that crowd, or maybe 90% in
that crowd and 10% in that crowd.
Are we able to do so?
My question, because yourexperience surpasses way more
mine.
As much as I was born inMontreal and as much as there
(09:01):
was evangelism since day one andday push us, I always been
fearful of my luck to even do it.
So sometimes I would come andhelp do this or that, but I have
that limitation that you know.
I might not be as good to gotackle that and this is why, you
(09:23):
know, when I was preparing Iwas like so let's, let's.
How can I help?
In the most basic way?
And when you wrote me the, thetitle was living slash,
preaching in the secular world,and I really loved it because it
just clicked when I read.
It is the way I live and a lotof the times I could even see
(09:48):
that my kids were a church.
When I'm doing something, if Ido a bad joke or, like you know,
a gray zone bad joke, theycould pick it up and use it
against me, or like they're like, well, you're joking about that
, why not me?
So I need to always live theright way so that I'm able to
show that I actually go withwhat I say.
(10:10):
So then, when I talk, there'snothing not to be put against me
, but also against my own Godthat you know I am, I am who I
am, because I follow this man,this, this God.
Then you want to learn abouthim, you want to see that love.
Then come and see this, becauseI am doing this, what he told
(10:31):
me to do.
I have four different aspectsand I want to, I want us to
really dive in those fouraspects, and in every aspect
there's a specific application.
I think it could help us inthat area of our life to do
better.
But I want your input for sure.
You're the expert versus me,versus me, you're the expert in
(10:54):
this table.
So relationships, you knowrelationships.
I have Proverbs 13, 20 andreally hit me.
He who walks with wise men willbe wise, but the companion of
fools will be destroyed and Ireally felt that because of my
friendships and this is how Ireally connected with with that.
What do you think what can wedo in relationships that could
(11:18):
really push us from just being aChristian, you know, going to
church, doing all the checkmarksto actually living a a
pre-chill world or a realChristian life that could change
people around?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well, like, first of all, like I.
I want to make the point that,yes, like, as the verse says,
like you know, the company offools like will destroy you
eventually.
Even St Paul says like likepoor.
(11:58):
Let me find the verse One, secno-transcript, like it was
something I'm going toparaphrase for the sake of time,
but for like bad people.
Bad people like corrupt goodhabits or something along the.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
You know, yes, yes, yes, you actually do have it
somewhere.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I need to find it also, yeah, but that being said,
Christ always was sat with thepeople who were considered
outcasts, people who wereconsidered sinners.
Like I do understand that weneed to be careful, but it
doesn't mean that I've changedmy life and now I no longer need
(12:43):
to talk to these people.
It's like no, they're just asimportant and we all need to try
and help each other out.
And now, in terms of likerelationships, I think the most
important thing it sounds verycheesy, but the most important
(13:06):
thing is love.
And because I could preach, Icould, as St Paul says, like I
could speak with the tongues ofmen and of angels, but I have
not love.
I've become a sounding brass orclanging symbol.
You know, like when a deacon islike playing the symbol but
he's not in tune, and like aBoona starting to flinch in the
(13:29):
altar, Like yeah, like that'swhat it's like.
You know me trying to preach toyou or tell you a Bible verse,
or tell you Jesus loves you, butI have no love for you.
I don't try to have love foryou.
It's meaningless.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I know that you were looking.
I just found it first,Corinthians 1533 do not be
deceived the evil companycorrupts good habits.
So I'm with you 100%, even aroad Go for it.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, like I'll give you an example, right?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
now.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Like I'm in the psych ward at the hospital right now.
I'm doing my psychiatryrotation and we're told from the
very first day that if at anypoint you feel that you are in
danger or things are about toescalate, like just leave,
excuse yourself and leavebecause your safety is more
(14:25):
important than like trying tolike be the hero or get hurt.
Yes, you're there to try andhelp the person in front of you
who's sick, you know, but ifit's going to end up harming you
, then like it's no good.
So it's like when he says to beas wise as serpents but like
harmless as doves, like you weregiven wisdom to kind of test
(14:48):
the situation.
Like if I'm hanging out with afriend who has bad habits but I
care for him and his salvation,I'm going to be there.
But when I see it startsaffecting me or I'm at risk,
that's when you need to kind ofbe careful or step both sides.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
And especially that we're in a world, in a time
where an age that we're really adigital age I'm going to call
you Liz we lose.
I feel like we lose the depthof connection or all through our
phones, we text, we don't calland we always lose that emotion
throughout the text.
(15:24):
I feel like we also between usnot only in people that we
preach or people that we don'tknow, I feel like even people
that we go in the same church welose that touch, that genuine
touch, interaction where we showlove, no matter how hard
services or how hard my day was,my week, my month or actually
(15:46):
my year sometimes.
It's sometimes just a bad year,but we don't get to the depth
of how deep God loved us and weuse that love to just bless the
other person.
And the application that I justwrote down is surround yourself
with those who have upliftedyou for sure, but to remember
(16:09):
that's all about the quality ofrelationship that you have.
It's not about having 20friends or 30 friends, or I've
talked to like 100 people today.
It's about that oneconversation that just was that
changed you from inside.
I always remember every singletime that I go and help out
(16:29):
people like other people, nomatter who it is, if it's my
kids, a church or people from onthe street or people that I
would just randomly visit.
It's always about how theychange me.
And it's so funny because I'mgoing in with that mindset of
I'm going to do some good todayand then I'm like, damn, you're
(16:54):
changing me from inside andyou're trying to get to know God
and I should be the one withGod's knowledge or like God's,
like the knowledge of God's love.
But yet you show me the truemeaning and my dictionary.
Just throw it and get a new one.
What's yours, where do I getyours?
And that's the most changingpart.
(17:15):
I remember we have commonfriends and we used to go a lot
on Mondays and Thursdays to goand help, and it's always the
same feeling.
This is beautiful.
It's very hard for me again,but it's just mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And the important thing that we need to remind
ourselves of is that we need tobe filled with God's love first
before you can give it toanybody else.
It's the typical put the oxygenmask on yourself first before
helping the person next to you.
There's so many examples ofthis in the Bible, for example
(17:56):
when Jesus says like, what arethe most important?
Like is asked what are the mostimportant commandments?
Or ask someone else.
It's the first love the Lord,your God, with all your mind
strength, you know.
And then the second one is loveyour neighbor as yourself.
Like.
The first one has to apply.
I have to have thatrelationship first in order for
(18:16):
it to overflow to others.
Even like when he feeds thefive thousandth, it clearly says
that like he then took the foodand gave it to the disciples
and the disciples gave it to thepeople.
Like it came from him, but likeit worked outwards that way,
like it has to start with him.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I've actually never thought about that little detail
in our stories.
Funny thing is that there's alot of stories that we read and
like, oh, I know what happened,but when you get to the details
of who is giving what, I'm withyou, wow, I.
It is beautiful to see that.
You know, everything comes fromChrist and it's blessed, even
the wine in the in the weddingwhen, when, when he changed the,
(19:05):
the water to wine, and whenthey tasted it, they're like, oh
my God, there's somethingcompletely different from what
we were drinking.
And they were actually notgetting the bad wine, they were
actually getting the good wine.
And it was done and they didn'thave any more.
So Jesus went and made wine forthem, because that was the
celebration, and he woke up fromwhat we he was drinking and
(19:27):
actually was mesmerized of howgood it was.
I think you were saying youwere thinking something.
I, I, I, I.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I, I was just, I was just thinking.
I remember talking with someoneonce and he brought up a point
of like when Jesus raisesLazarus from the dead, like he
knows what he's about to do, buthe still asks someone to move
the stone, like he's about toraise someone from the dead.
(19:59):
He could have he's God, hecould have moved that stone
himself, but he loves it whenhis creation is, like, involved
in his plan for salvation.
You know, that's why it's thedisciples handing out the food
and preaching to the nations,and you know it's so true
because we, we are told, youknow.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
You know, god does not need you per se, because
he's able to do it by himself,but he uses you because he loves
you.
And that's the way he showslove by creating us and by, you
know, using us and not asking,not pushing us to love him, but
for him, he's waiting for us tochoose 100% from our own will to
love him, and then he's likewell, finally, you're here, you
(20:44):
chose me.
Then here's this and that andall the blessings that I have.
Here you go, and more.
What about something more?
You know relationships.
I love to talk about it.
There's a lot to it, but when itcomes to the, you know the
tough and the tough part of lifethe finances.
(21:04):
How can I live in a such aChristian way?
Even though I am worried aboutif I'm gonna be able to pay this
, I'm not gonna be able to givetime.
I need to work.
I need to do this, this, this,this, like going to church is
(21:26):
gonna take a second, like justfor this week, or because the
try-miss is about to finish.
I need to finish those reportor I have my balance coming up.
I'm gonna skip the holy week.
I can't.
My finals is on is on the Easterday.
They're not thinking about us,but I can't forget about the
(21:46):
exam.
Like I know that feeling fromhigh school and high school was
easy for me to take some time.
I could redo the exam.
It was easy, there was no issue.
But when you mature and you getinto the real life problems or
situations you don't have thatfreedom or that environment that
(22:07):
you're able to choose so freelyand you're stuck in some way
quote unquote that you're stuckto choose this way.
What do you think about that?
How can I really turn and applyor do it differently and still
show God's love and God's way inthat world full of numbers and
(22:30):
dollar signs?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
As someone who's not making any money himself as a
medical student, like all I cansay is to like involve him in
every step of the way, like.
I'll give an example as someonewho's still a student.
I remember once there was achurch event I really wanted to
go to and I went to thebeginning but I had to leave
(22:53):
halfway through because I had amajor exam coming up and it was
Abuna Joseph.
Father Joseph from Ottawa, likespeaking at our church and like
I went to say bye to him andapologize for leaving early and
told him why, and he was likedon't worry, habibi, you can
make your study desk your altartable, you know.
(23:18):
Like you can make your workdesk your altar table.
You can involve God ineverything you do.
Start whatever you do with aprayer, even if it's like the
shortest prayer ever, involvinghim in it.
Like if it's a financial thinglike I'm struggling to pay the
like, involve him in it.
There's a story of King likeHezekiah in the Old Testament.
(23:40):
Like he had a problem and heliterally wrote it down and put
it in front of God and like likean army was about to attack
them and he's like just put itbefore God, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think we see that.
I think, when we feel like ourclose ones are going through a
tough time, we actually wrotetheir names on a paper and put
it on the altar and be like GodI'm giving you those names.
Be with them.
What I picked up, the versethat I really had in mind.
Well, I have a couple of them.
(24:13):
The first one was reallydisturbing.
That's why I wanted to talkabout it.
Proverbs 22, 7,.
The rich rules over the poorand the borrower is serving to
the lender, which made me feellike you know, there's this
oppression from money.
Then I went further, notfurther than the Bible, but I
(24:35):
was searching for an answer,because this is not an answer.
Hebrews 13, 5,.
Be content with such things asyou have let.
He himself has said I willnever leave you nor forsake you.
And it really hugged me to justfeel grateful because I know
some days like I had, days whereyou know broke is rich.
(25:01):
For me, being broke is a richlife.
And then there's days where I'mcapable to buy a new car, this,
and that you know you'reenjoying life.
You're going here and there,but being grateful for you know
experiences, time with people.
You know it's not like I said,it's not about the dollar signs,
(25:22):
it's not about what am I stablefinancially?
Because, you know, tomorrowCOVID hit and the economy was
actually the whole economy justcrashed.
And you're like what's gonnahappen tomorrow?
And being grateful for thepeople around you and people
just coming together was so muchmore powerful than any
(25:47):
financial stability that I hadfrom work or from anything that
I've done.
I was like and when I wasthinking about it I was like
dollar, like there's thisEgyptian saying God give, god
took.
God has everything, everythingis God and everything is in God.
(26:12):
So in my head, if I have thatopportunity to, you know,
advance, like, thank you Lord.
And if I lose a job, and I'm,you know, think about this or
that, or I just lose a job,thank you Lord.
There is something to it youknow.
So all about.
(26:34):
Am I stable financially?
If not, let me put God on theside and then go.
You know, work on this and belike, okay, I'll be back, god.
You know I need to.
You know, work on this, this,just to be sure, and be like
I'll be all yours after that,coming from all this, the
finances.
I think it's the same point.
(26:55):
I wrote it down because you knowas much as we're talking about
stability financially, sometimesworking.
Or you know there's a lot andchoosing your career and doing
what you love could be couldpush you to.
You know, neglect, church causeyou're just working.
You know you have this shift onSunday.
(27:17):
I can't come.
Or you know I need to work in acountry where there's no masses
.
So what am I supposed to do?
What do you think about?
Like, how can I praise God inmy work?
It's a big, I think it's atopic in itself.
But if I wanna, you know, showGod, show the Lord's love, in my
(27:42):
work, you know how can I dothat?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
There's a verse, I think, in Colossians that says
like when you do something, doit heartily and unto the Lord.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You, as if you read my notes cause that's what I
highlighted Colossians 3, 23 to24,.
And whatever you do, and do itheartily as to the Lord and not
to men, knowing that from theLord you will receive the reward
of the inheritance, for youserve the Lord Christ.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, like, for example, like as myself as a med
student like sometimes you havea lot of patience to see in a
day and every time you see apatient you have to write a note
for them.
And by the end of the day,sometimes you just wanna like
get everything done quickly soyou can leave.
(28:32):
But then we're told to seeChrist in everybody and like
when I walk into that hospital,when I leave that hospital room,
like did I just serve the Kingof Kings?
Like did I treat that person asif they were Christ himself?
And I know, people aren'talways pleasant to deal with and
(28:55):
it's not always easy, but sincewhen is anything in
Christianity easy, you know?
And I feel like just giving ityour best and reminding yourself
that it's not for you, it's forhim.
He's the one who gave you thesetalents Helping others in your
(29:20):
workplace, being kind to others.
I think that's the best way topreach, like in a hospital, for
example, you have nurses, youhave PABs, you have social
workers, you have everybody.
There's one hospital ward, atthe Children's Hospital, where
(29:40):
they call everybody by firstname.
There's no hierarchy.
There's no doctor, this ornurse that, or it's like hi,
sarah, hi, this, hi, you know,like we're all on the same page,
the same struggle.
We're trying to work together.
Not sure if what I'm saying ismaking sense.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
No, it is making sense.
My only question or what wouldchallenge you is how about if?
Because sometimes people dostand so like we're in an age or
era where everyone has a standabout something and sometimes
this question perspective is notas well taken as we want,
(30:27):
because it's such a badperspective to have regarding
all those new perspectives orthis new liberating perspective,
and people think that we'revery like closing, closed down
or not open enough.
What is your answer to that?
Well, we're trying to shareGod's love, you know, and people
(30:51):
that are living their life inso different colors.
How can we, by using this, belike you know what?
I do have my beliefs, but I'mstill here to show you love, and
at work, or mainly at work,because this is where you, you
know, 40 hours a week minimum,you know, sometimes we do 50, 60
(31:12):
hours, and that's the peoplethat we see the most how can you
put your belief with all this,with everything that they are,
and make it work?
and not lose your head.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
It's a very loaded question.
I'll say a few things.
The first thing is like, forexample, even with some of my
very close friends at med school, the moment I say the words, or
in the name Jesus, you can kindof tell the look in their face
changes and they're notlistening to you as clearly and
(31:48):
you know so.
Like you don't have to do that.
Like you, for example, one ofmy friends was going for like a
little bit of a break through ahard time and I like said I'm so
sorry, like I'll pray for you.
You know, and like, and she'snot religious or anything, and
she didn't really respond to it.
(32:08):
And then, like months later,this friend was like hey, can
you please pray for me?
I'm going through this and this.
Like not that she believed inGod all of the sudden or
something, but there wassomething there.
You know the other thing aboutpeople nowadays it's very easy
for people to shout theiropinion at you and to impose it
(32:29):
and if you don't agree, likeyou're considered all the bad
things in the world.
I'll give you like an analogy Iheard once where there was a
pastor speaking at a universitycampus about something and one
of the questions in the Q&A wassomething along the lines of
(32:50):
like why do Christians hate gaypeople?
And like he said, well, firstof all, like we preached love,
like we don't preach to hateanybody, but that's what we'll
put that aside for now.
He says what kind of society doyou think we live in?
He says I'll give you threeexamples.
The first one is a theonymoussociety, theo meaning God, and
(33:17):
no most meaning law.
So that means in this is atheoretical society, everybody
has God's law engraved in theirhearts and they all follow that
law.
The second one is aheteronymous society.
So that means there are a fewpeople who tell you what's right
and what's wrong.
You see this a lot in likeSaudi Arabia and like Islamic
(33:42):
states like that, where thereare a few clerics telling you
what's right and what's wrong.
And then the last one's anautonomous society, auto meaning
self.
So I decide what's right for me.
I set my own laws, my ownmorality, everything.
I can choose to follow God.
I can choose to do whatever Iwant.
And then so he asked her whatsociety do you think we live in?
(34:05):
And she said an autonomoussociety.
And he's like okay, so youclaim we live in an autonomous
society.
But as soon as I give myopinion on something, you
suddenly turn it into aheteronymous society and tell me
what I need to believe in.
Not that I think this is how weshould be talking to people at
work.
I'm just saying that's the kindof hypocrisy of saying that
(34:30):
we're in a politically correctenvironment, yet saying there's
only one right opinion.
We forgot how to have adialogue and how to talk to each
other and to agree to disagree.
The best thing to do is to findthe similarities between us.
Like, for example, at the endof my second year of med school,
there was a big gathering on aboat.
(34:53):
We were gonna like celebratefinishing the second year of med
school and I was going and Iwas asking one of my friends
she's Jewish like if she wascoming.
It was on Friday night and shesaid, oh, I can't.
I'm like how come?
She's like, oh, it's theSabbath, and like I was so
impressed, you know, and I toldher, like good for you, honestly
(35:15):
, that you value God's law, thatyou're not gonna party or like
do anything that you wouldn't doon the Sabbath because you're
so faithful.
Well, there's me going to thisboat party on a Friday when
we're supposed to be fasting andwhen Christ was crucified.
(35:37):
You know what I mean.
And like there's a famous storyI'm not sure if it's a specific
saint or not or just a desertfather story, but there were two
monks walking with each otherand there was a pagan man
worshipping and one of the monkswas like you're a pagan, you're
worshipping an idol, all thatstuff.
(35:57):
And then the other guy likesays, oh, that's so.
Like noble of you to carry allthis wood and to worship your
God and in the end, like thatsecond man's comment ended up
converting this guy to aChristian later on.
You know, like we need to findthe things that make us alike
(36:18):
and to build those connections,and we're never all gonna agree
on everything.
Like I might have a favoritefood.
You might think it's disgustingdifferent thoughts on music.
The same thing applies to faith.
Like I'm allowed to believe inwhat I believe in.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
And it's so true because, as much as it's a story
the two monks, I think it's ofan entity, but I'm not sure,
don't call me on that.
I've also, unfortunately, seenpeople.
When you're trying to bringback someone, you know someone
that actually lived in churchbut chose like you know what.
It wasn't what I thought itshould be, and it's more toxic
(36:59):
that I thought like more toxicthat I could handle.
You know, the world is nicerthan how you're treating me,
which is sad, but sometimes youknow we're all.
We do mistakes and it happens Ihit the same person at the same
time and we work like certainpiece, work very hard to bring
those people back.
You know, slowly but surelyThen they come back and it's one
(37:20):
bad word from someone andthey're like, okay, done, I'm
not coming back again.
And it's like, if we're able tojust take a second, and you
know, let people be and not beso stuck up on rules and
regulation and this, and thatlike I'm talking more about
church, or like, oh my God, weneed to be doing this at church
(37:42):
and we should respect the Lord'splace.
And I'm like I one day I was, Iwas generally thinking about it
.
I'm like what?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
am.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I Like I'm his servant and I'm barely saying
I'm his servant and, like youknow, I'm barely capable to even
stand in front and say, and Ishould not, from all the trouble
that I make or all the issuesthat I'm going through, I
shouldn't be even be a front ofanything.
And why am I now being like, oh, we should be doing this and we
(38:17):
should be like, watch the timeand, like you know, start to
start to tell people what to doand want not to do at church,
when it's not even your houseand it's the kings of kings, the
king of kings house, and you'renot even a servant.
He's like who do you think youare?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, there was a story actually once from our
church where there was avisiting priest praying with
Father Peter and he had a lot oflittle kids, like young
children, and one of them wasmaking a lot of noise and the
mom was trying to calm him downand at some point one of the
(38:58):
older deacons kind of marches toher and like starts destroying
her on the spot in church,saying like how dare you, this
is the house of God.
And she was later found cryingthis is a Taswani of the
visiting priest, the wife of thevisiting priest crying and one
(39:21):
of the servants went to see ifshe was okay and stuff.
And she said, you know what, if, like, I wasn't the wife of a
priest, that could have been mylast time in a church, you know.
But while not to say thatmaintaining reverence in the
church is bad, like you couldhave gone to this woman and
calmly said, like there's acrying groom, if your kid is
(39:45):
like a little too active rightnow, or like help them out.
You know, like having being amom with like three young kids,
like you know.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Being a mom in itself is a miracle.
Sometimes I think, god, I'm aman, but I'll just not.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's next week's episode.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
But one thing that I wrote down for this it's where
it gets on, just about thepaycheck right.
There's way more.
So we could actually look forpassion and work with passion,
that, even though you're notpreaching, like you say saying
the name of Jesus Christ everynow and then or like preaching
(40:28):
about Him, at least I am seekingpurpose in my profession, I am
putting my A1 game all the time.
I'm not least, I'm showing thatI'm a hardcore worker and
everything that I do and then belike then let people wonder
what is it about us?
That is different.
Like you said, I've also knowna lot of Jewish people and, for
(40:54):
example, we were young and wewere, we were text a lot, but
from Friday to Saturday, zerotext, not even one, not even
like.
It's.
There's a moment she disappears, he disappears also and I only
hear about, like hear from themon Sunday.
I really respect it and I'mlike wow, sometimes a church.
(41:16):
I'm like I receive like amessage from on my.
I need to like answer quicklyor or like I have this call,
I'll be right back.
I just walk in the back, getthe call come back.
It's beautiful when we show andeverything that we do, 100%.
You know we give it 100% ofourselves and we show like the
dedication that our Lord, JesusChrist, showed.
(41:38):
But we're showing the samething in our profession our
little things.
And there's this story of thethree workers where they were
given talents and the answer isyou've been faithful.
The little things, you'll begiven greater things, and that's
(42:03):
how the Lord is working with us.
It's gradually right.
He gives you a small thing, youdo it, you get better, you're
stronger, you're able to takemore and you go on to become
someone greater and we can ableto change people's heart.
So hopefully, like hopefullyfor myself, I'm able to get to
(42:25):
that point.
The last one is is I made itgeneral, I wrote it down as life
in general because, you know,everyone has their own, you know
, aspect in life.
Maybe I'm into sports, or Ihave this kind of, you know, I'm
a mom and I, like, I'm marriedand I have three kids, you know,
and I have this, or I am thisyouth going through university
(42:46):
and I have, I have this kind ofenvironment.
Or I am, I'm retired and I havethis, this, you know, this life
, this different life that iscompletely different than any
other.
Or I'm just a kid, you know,just growing up and I haven't
seen much of life, you know, 22,.
That's all the right, but inlife, in life in general, how
(43:14):
can we, how can we, you know,make it just God's way?
How can we continuously make itGod's way?
Because I work, I could workreally hard to make it.
You know, showing that I'mdedicated, so I'm showing God's
work in finances, be like, okay,I don't mind, like I'll make my
(43:38):
finances all about God, put itunder his hands, or my
relationships.
I'm going to try to make it,you know, 100, genuine and full
of love.
But there's times where, likeyou're just in your in your head
, or you're just doing otherthings on your own, or you're
just not in those circles, where, what, should I just play,
(43:59):
pause and be like, relax, veg abit and come back and work as
God's soldier?
Or is it a continuous work?
What do you think?
Do we take pauses because we'renot capable, or are we capable
and we should thrive for it?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Like I feel like we should, of course, thrive for it
and continue to keep struggling.
But how do I say this?
Like it's an uphill battle.
It's not always easy.
It's always referred to as aspiritual warfare.
Like Christ himself says,narrow is the path or the
(44:43):
doorway that leads to life, andthere are few who go through it,
you know.
But I think it's that continualstruggle to maintain that
relationship, maintain that walkwith God.
There's a good verse from one ofthe Psalms of David that says
like the Lord is, that is everbefore me, he is at my right
(45:04):
hand, so like having him alwaysin front of you, like leading
the way, leading everything I do, like taking a moment to like
stop and breathe, or just likefocus on your heartbeat.
There's a wonderful book calledBecoming a Healing Presence by
(45:28):
Dr Albert Rossi.
I think he's an OrthodoxChristian, but he's also like
PhD in psychology andpsychotherapy, I think.
And like I got that book and Iwas expecting to read like how
to like tips on how to be abetter person around other
(45:50):
people, you know.
And then the entire book isabout developing my relationship
, practicing my breathing, howto link my breathing and my
heartbeat to prayer, like it wasall focused on you and your
relationship and, naturally,through focusing on your
relationship with God and yourlove for him, that love
(46:11):
overflows and that's whateventually becomes a healing
presence to others.
Like a lot of people who preachby living, like or by their
actions may never say his namein front of others, but people
notice some things different.
I don't know if I'm answeringyour question but, like I think
(46:33):
the key thing is to, as theverse says, always have him
before you.
He's at my right hand that I'mnot going through this alone.
In every situation, whether I'mstudying, at work, having
trouble with a relationship in amarriage with kids, like, at
(46:54):
the end of the day, he needs tobe involved.
Like, for example, in marriage,they always talk about the
triangle.
Like each corner is the threepeople in the relationship, the
top being God and the man andthe woman.
And like, even when things gethard with the man and the woman,
(47:14):
as long as that's like, theconnection with God is there,
like it's still possible tomaintain it.
You know, I don't know.
Have I answered your question?
Speaker 1 (47:25):
or is there something you?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
want me to?
No, no, no, I was just gonnaadd to it.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
And it's this verse was told the first time I heard
it was.
I was a kid and it was a superlike.
It was a superhero moment.
I'm like I am Christian.
I'm gonna read it and you'regonna know what I'm talking
about.
Romans 12 to and do not beconfirmed to this world, but be
transformed by the renewing ofyour mind that you may prove
(47:54):
what is that good and acceptableand perfect will of God.
And you're like I'm never gonnachange.
You know I'm always gonna.
Like I was a kid, I was alwaysfull of hope.
You know, I've felt like lifewas gonna be easy.
You know I'm gonna just beChristian, I'm gonna score in it
.
And you're like, nah, life kicksyou hard.
When you get older, it kicksyou really hard.
(48:16):
And sometimes you're like likethere's a time in my life where,
like you know what I also don'twant to hear about anything
about, about God, because youknow, I grew in it and I'm like
I've seen so so much.
That was not what I thought itcould, it was and it could be.
And you're like I need to thinkabout this.
(48:37):
I there's something that isn'tworking.
And when I really was in the,you know the, the lowest point
of my life.
You, you, you think about itand you're like, no, there's
something there.
(48:57):
My identity starts with beingChristian, the rest comes with
it.
And you're like, okay, this isjust life kicking me from side
to side, because I'm trying.
I'm trying to be, you know,still and firm with God.
So they're trying to push meover, but I need to understand
what's the world.
Problems Should not affect myrelationship with as much as,
(49:21):
like you know, you come back andyou're like happen, where you
still get those, you know, weakmoments and up and you stand up
again and you try again.
And this is like you said thisis a, it's it throughout your
lifetime.
It's like it's a challenge andit's a, it's a warfare that
you're gonna go throughthroughout your lifetime.
It's not gonna stop or enduntil the actual end, your end
(49:43):
or the world's end.
But for me it was okay.
You're gonna gonna see a lot ofthings.
You're gonna go through a lot,a lot of things.
Have you like, use what youcould use from the world that
could help you, but never Changeyour, your direction from God.
And and this is where all theverses that I've read is the
(50:06):
moment I Put, I said, my footoutside of God's presence or
God's love.
For God's direction I want awhirlpool of like trouble and
and and Noise and I'm lost and Idon't know what to do.
And I'm going left and rightand I'm just, you know, lost for
(50:27):
direction.
You know, when you're lost, youstart, like the first thing
that we do when we're lost, whenwe're driving, we lower the
music, which has nothing to dowith directions, but it just
clears our mind to just thinkclearly and be like where am I
going?
Where can I go?
How can I adjust my car to goback to the, to that direction,
(50:47):
towards my little place?
Speaker 2 (50:50):
where.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
I'm going, which is for me, is God heaven.
You know heaven is being sofunny.
How for me was a destination.
Want to get the heaven where,if you're with God now, you're
technically in heaven.
You know it's so funny to saythat, but you know heaven is
God's presence.
So then here are, after you'rewith him.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
And and it's just reminding yourself that, no
matter what situation you are inyour life, whether you're close
to God or not, or Arestruggling like, he's always
there.
There's Another some of Davidwhen he says like when I'm in
heaven, you are there.
When I'm in sheol in hell, youare there.
There's another saying it's notfrom the Bible, but it's like
(51:36):
sometimes God allows you to Hitrock bottom so you can realize
he's the rock at the bottom.
You know he's the one holdingyou up.
Or that, that analogy thatwe've all heard about the
footprints in the sand and thathe was the one carrying you
during those roughest times.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, it's, I'm with you.
The only thing that I wrote forapplication, especially for any
time, in any situation or anyenvironment, is to always take
time to self-reflect, somethingthat my my peace of confession,
my father of confession, tellsme is at the end of the day.
(52:15):
Sit down, take five minutes,think about everything that you
did right, everything that youdid wrong or things that you
could have Done better, andthink about it and note
something, and then start yoursecond day by that, or at least
you've noted down, you have inmind that you've done this wrong
once, you could do itdifferently, so that you, when
you're stuck or you findyourself in that situation, you
(52:38):
do it better.
So I feel like self-refer along time is something that we I
I under estimate, becauseyou're busy doing this and
running from work and I havethis that you're like I go back
home.
I actually sometimes I go backhome, I throw myself in bed and
I snore like I am just knockedout.
(53:00):
Some days are like this, but365 days of the year, I said
myself long.
It's impossible that the wholeyear is like this.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Right, my body is not gonna sustain and we always say
we'll do it tomorrow, we'regonna do it later.
And the thing is like SaintJohn the Baptist and Jesus.
The first words they say in theGospels are like Repent now,
for the kingdom of heaven is athand.
Like it's here In the Psalms itsays like be still and know
(53:30):
that I'm God.
Like you need that Stillness.
That's why that book talksabout heartbeats and breathing
and just taking a moment to likePray God's name.
There was actually an analogyin the book, a story where there
was a little boy at thedoctor's office, three years old
, and the doctor was listeningto his heart and the doctors,
(53:56):
like, do you want to hear yourheart?
And he gives the kid thestethoscope and the kid listened
and he hears his heart beatingand he's like is that Jesus
knocking on the door?
This is like a three-year-oldkid and the author was so blown
and Like that awareness at thatage.
Like every moment is a chance toconnect.
You know it's like you weresaying we disconnect, we
(54:19):
separate this from God.
Like we need to include him ineverything, like Everything that
you go through, whether it'swork, pleasure, like that's how
you get through it.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
And funny thing is that I do ask my kids and and I
was, I was trying to understandtheir perspective and Are they
gonna have more like?
I asked them do you thinkknowing God when I was, when,
when you're young, is, is easier, or at least You're more
capable when you're young orwhen you're older?
Funny thing is most of themtold me when you're older and
(54:54):
I'm like you do not know howmuch stuff hits you when you get
, when you hit.
I remember when I hit 18 firstjob, like real problem, came at
me, like really, and I'm like,wow, I actually just got.
I just turned 18, like give mea minute, give me a day.
(55:16):
But it's true as like I thinkone of the biggest application
that we could recommend is takeaction ASAP, as soon as possible
.
If you're thinking about it, doit.
I remember Someone told me ifyou, if you're like just you
know, chilling around, or andyou haven't prayed yesterday,
(55:38):
it's okay, or you have, you had,you did pray and on the spot,
you thought you in the metro andyou thought I want to pray,
pray, see our father, and that'sit, you're done.
But if you're thinking about it, do it.
You know it's okay, it's extrapoints, you're not losing
anything, do it.
And if you want to do somethinggood to it For no reasons, just
(56:00):
do it.
You have.
I do have those moments where Ilike it's want to do I don't
like, especially when I'm reallyI have a bad time trying to do
something good to feel okay.
It's so funny cuz I'm trying todo good for other people.
I'm just, I want to be betterinside.
That's how I feel better.
But Just do it, like Nikekilled it with.
(56:23):
Just do it.
So people just do it.
It's so funny because it's it'sthe best for sports is take the
go, go do exercise.
Well, it's the same thing.
Like you said, your spirituallife is like your muscle.
You need to constantly do it.
I'll let like I don't know ifyou have anything else to tell
(56:45):
us.
No, because I've learned a lot,by the way, I'm not gonna lie.
I always learn.
I honestly, every conversationI have with you guys is such, is
so fulfilling.
So, yeah, just do it.
Ground yourself with in values.
That promotes truth, nobility,purity, like the verse says a
Philippians 4 8.
Finally, brethren, whateverthings are true, whatever things
(57:09):
are noble, whatever things arejust, whatever things are pure,
whatever things are lovely,whatever things are of good
report, if there is any virtueand if there is anything
praiseworthy, meditate on thesethings and like the verse I want
to finish with, it's from AtJohn 13, 35.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
By this all will know that you are my disciples.
If you have love for oneanother, at the end of the day
it's they will know you by yourlove.
They won't know you by yourtheology, by your Words, by
anything.
It'll be by your love and howyou show it to them.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
You know we're gonna know when we're gonna be in that
casket.
You're gonna see them.
The funeral you're gonna seefrom the family gathering You're
gonna see the love, not thedollar sign, not all those
worldly you know Objectives.
It's really with how much loveyou give to that person around
you.
Very true.
Thank you so much.
(58:11):
The rum is for coming today andreally opening up about this.
I know it's sometimes it's verytouchy to even open up.
You know, talk about preachingor a living hot, a peach.
You know Ego is always at atthe door, like pushing us to
play in your inner heads and Ithank you for taking the
opportunity and come and talkabout it for other people to
(58:31):
listen, for you.
Thank you guys for tuning inagain for our podcast.
A third episode.
Please share, please continuesharing, liking, comment also
what kind of activities you door what kind of solutions you
have to show God's love in youractions, in your life, to really
Push the other person next toyou to maybe taste God's love
(58:54):
for a glimpse of a moment.
Thank you again, ramesh, thankyou people, and see you in the
next episode.
You.
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