November 17, 2023 • 47 mins
Ever felt the heavy burden of societal expectations on your shoulders? Have you questioned the cultural norms dictating your career choices, relationships or even your faith? Johanna, a courageous Coptic Orthodox Christian woman joins our conversation to shed light on how she navigated these pressures, and how she discovered the strength to live life on her terms.
Johanna's journey is a true testament to the power of faith and self-belief. She was pushed towards traditional careers like medicine and law, but her heart desired something different. With relentless determination and trust in divine guidance, Johanna dared to venture beyond societal norms. She shares her insights on embracing who you are, investing in your passions and building a strong spiritual foundation. Our discussion takes a deeper dive into the societal rush for marriage and Johanna's approach to this often-complicated life choice.
Lastly, we explore varied cultural norms and traditions across the globe. From the etiquette of pointing in Malaysia to the tongue-pointing gestures of Nicaragua, we uncover how these unique customs shape our worldview and influence our decisions. Through Johanna's rich personal experiences, we glean a deeper understanding of the intricate tapestry of global cultures and the role faith plays in guiding us through life's maze. Join us for this enlightening conversation that promises a fresh perspective on societal expectations, faith, and cultural diversity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone and welcome again.
Now we're at the fifth episodeof the Southern Light Parkhouse,
so I want to welcome Joanna.
I want to present yourself andalso tell us something about you
, and why did you pick thistopic.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right.
So hi, vishay, my name isJoanna and I'm very happy to be
here today.
So I'm a Coptic OrthodoxChristian girl and I actually am
a corporate trainer, so I havea passion for teaching, but I
also love playing music andsinging, so I actually played
that one.
So, yeah, the reason why Ichose this topic is because I
(00:35):
think it's a very hot topicnowadays, one that we all go
through or have to deal with ona daily basis, when everybody
asks you questions every timethey see you and you're just
like, oh, not again, and you'retrying to just do your life and
keep following God's path foryou.
I think it's very important forus to discuss this topic so
(00:58):
that people who are goingthrough the same thing as me can
know how to tackle it and howto just not be afraid of telling
people what they're doing,despite the standards of the
community.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a great way to say it, and I actually found an
amazing definition from UNICEFitself about the community
standards or social norms, andit says social norms are the
perceived, informal, mostlyunwritten rules that define
acceptable and appropriateactions within a given group or
(01:30):
community, thus guiding humanbehavior.
And, like you said, we arealways pushed to said behavior
because they believe, and that'swhy we want to a bit discuss
and see.
I want to know what did you gothrough and differentiate
whatever is thinking differentlyversus yours.
(01:53):
So what kind of thoughts wereyou early in your childhood?
Were you more apparent to, oryou heard a lot?
What happened to you or peoplearound you?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So there are three points that I would probably
tackle.
The first one would be thestudies part.
So, as I was growing up,obviously everyone around was
asking what are you going to bedoing when you're older?
What do you want to study?
And at first you don'tnecessarily know.
But the more you hear peopletelling you, I see you as this,
(02:31):
I see you as a doctor, I see youas that, and then you start
believing it just because peopleare saying it.
So you start repeating that aswell and telling everybody that
you want to become a doctor.
But what if that's not God'splan for me?
What if this is not where mytalents actually belong?
And so that was one of my firststruggles as I was going
through my studies.
Then the second part is withwork.
(02:54):
Some people go straight to thejob that they're going to be
doing and this is what theystick to for a long time, and
other people explore differentthings and build different
talents as they go, or differentskills, as I can say.
So that was the second part,and the third part is obviously
relationships.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And I am with you 100% because all three aspects
we have different challengesthroughout our different aspects
of life.
So I want to start withchildhood and all three aspects.
Tell me, what did you findyourself challenged with in
(03:37):
every of those aspects?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So during my childhood.
Let's start with studies.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Let's start with studies and tell me, were you
maybe tackle or push to dosomething specific?
What was the mindset back thenand what were you thinking at
that time only?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, so to start with the childhood part, I'm a
Coptic Orthodox girl, meaningalso Egyptian.
So, that being said, our onlyoptions in life really are being
a doctor, an engineer, and itcould pass if you're a lawyer.
But I wasn't really interestedin either of these, actually,
(04:20):
when I was younger, becauseeverybody was telling me oh, I
see you as a doctor, you'd besuch a good doctor for me, and
so on and so forth.
You know, I believed it and Idon't.
You don't want to deceivepeople around you, you don't
want to put them down.
You want them to be proud ofyou.
You want them to be happy withwhat you're doing, right.
So this is actually what Istarted working towards and I
actually completed my studies,you know, went to CJAP and then
(04:43):
went to university but startedwith an undergrad in kinesiology
, hoping to actually get intomedicine afterwards.
But plans changed and actuallythroughout my undergrad, I
realized it was actually not forme.
I didn't like it.
I was actually doing a few jobsas well in the field, so in the
health care field in general,yanyi.
(05:04):
So, and I just didn't enjoy it.
I didn't feel like it was theplace for me.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So for you, that was from childhood.
You were challenged to becomesomething and made the way you
found yourself completely offand it took you.
So, if you don't mind, when didyou realize that it wasn't your
thing?
Do you have a moment where,like this moment, I realized I
had to change plan?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yes, it was actually at the end of my undergrad and I
realized I was actually workingat an osteoclinic, so I was
kind of seeing what it lookslike in the health care field in
general.
Again, I wasn't even touchingactual medicine, but just from
there it was the point where Isaid you know what?
I don't want to deal withactual patients.
(05:53):
I like to see people who arehealthy.
I don't like to necessarilydeal with them while they're
patients.
Don't get me wrong.
I love helping people and I'mall for it, but I don't want it
to be my actual job for life.
Okay, so that was kind of atriggering point for me to say I
don't think this is where myskills will be the best or will
(06:14):
benefit me to the maximum.
Also, I felt like God gave metalents that I could use
elsewhere.
Among other things, I wasmentioning my passion for
teaching.
That was something I alwaysloved to do and I believe it's
really something that big partof it is a talent God gave me to
be able to transmit information.
To be clear, maybe I'm not asarticulate right now, but you
(06:35):
know as a teacher.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
No, you're doing great, by the way, you're doing
amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
As a teacher.
I felt like I feel like God didgive me this part, so I thought
why not use that talent toactually have it as a job as
well?
Right, I'm not necessarily thebest person who's going to
memorize everything you know,and these are the skills
required for a doctor, forexample.
I thought, well, I can actuallyuse my talents and that could
(07:01):
become my job as well.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And did you?
When you realized you had tochange career, did you find
yourself or did you face anychallenges around you?
Yeah, of course, and but tellme, was it usually like there's
different answers for these, butwhat was your biggest challenge
and how did you actually?
(07:24):
How did you face it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So obviously, when you tell people around you
nobody likes change, right, it'snot that nobody likes change,
but people like to stay wherethey know they are and where
they're just comfortable.
So for me to come out and sayyou know what, I'm leaving the
healthcare field completely,it's not even like, oh, I'm
going to do occupational therapyinstead.
(07:51):
It's no, I'm not doing any ofthis healthcare side and I'm
literally going to the otherside completely.
So the educational side.
So that's kind of just like abig shot.
So my biggest challenge, whichwas actually probably convincing
my close, my close, the peopleclosest to me, obviously family,
friends, people who are reallyconcerned about my future,
(08:14):
because I know that they love meand I think it's it's something
that we all go through is wecan feel it as pressure.
We all know that it's comingfrom a point of love, but the
thing is we do feel it aspressure, right?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Is it justifiable that because it comes from love
that we need to accept thatpressure?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But that's exactly the challenge is only because
it's coming from love.
It does not only because it'scoming from love do I have to
actually accept right.
So this is where it's achallenge that I understand that
you are talking to me from thefact that you actually love me
and are concerned and care aboutme and about my future.
But I see things differentlyand I don't have to actually
(09:00):
abide by the general standardsthat people have right.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And it's good that you said that because it's not
only regarding, you know, ourdifferences with parents.
It could be also taken in alarger way.
I actually know beautiful versefrom Romans 12 to and do not be
conformed to this world.
Be transformed by the renewingof your mind that you may prove
that it is that good andacceptable and perfect will of
(09:29):
God.
And for me, that's what, when Ialso realized I was doing the
wrong thing and I actually, froma guy that used the ace to
actually sleep in class and notable to focus and not even
concerned or even lookingforward to anything you know
(09:50):
academically, I had to sit downand think about it and the
pressure that I received and theinformation I received from
outside was be that, be thisgoal in this career?
And I actually looked in what Ilove and am passionate about
and I'm ready to sacrifice andpush myself for more.
(10:11):
There was a completelydifferent area and from that, it
was like I was lost.
I was the last sheep that foundand like you know, a crazy idea
and I'm just going to throw hisfuture in it.
So I totally believe thatmoment where like, yeah, I'm not
(10:32):
doing this, I'm about to go tomarketing and the other only
reckon is like what is marketing?
It's not going to bring youmoney, it's not going to give
you a future.
It's a big doctor that this is,it's going to make money.
You're going to be this andthat and and and it's and it's
stable.
Everything is about stable andwe are afraid of doing different
(10:54):
Other than work.
You mentioned also so studiesand work.
You also mentioned your love,everything that is relationship.
What are the pressures thatyou've seen when you're younger,
especially in, like high schooland all that we start to pick
in the and start to like peoplefrom the other sex and all.
(11:17):
So this is where we startdeveloping our love and our
interest.
What were the challenges thatyou found yourself in,
especially in the Western world,versus a community that comes
from Middle East?
What were the differences thatyou saw and how did you face it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So if we talk about relationships, actually, funny
enough, I never really feel thesame pressure itself from the
Western community itself,because I grew up in such a way
that I got so used to not reallypaying attention to what these
standards are.
So you know, throughout highschool, for example, when people
had boyfriends, girlfriendsthat's not my kind of style.
(11:59):
I wasn't really bothered bythat.
I don't think this is whatbothered me most.
I don't think this is where Ifaced the biggest challenges.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Aren't you not questioned?
Of not having a boyfriend atthat stage, you'd be like why
don't you have a boyfriend now,like everyone has a boyfriend?
What was your answer to that?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So I was questioned about that multiple times, but
my answer was simply I believethat this is not the right time
for me and you know I'm notgoing to go too far into this,
because many different views areokay to be thought like I'm not
going for one specific type ofview but for me this was not the
(12:42):
right time.
And to pursue or to talk tosomeone without having an actual
goal was not very useful.
So I didn't see the purpose ofhaving a boyfriend, girlfriend,
at that time, at this period oftime where I'm really supposed
to be focusing on my studiesright, because we're talking
about high school Now.
The real challenge happenslater, right?
(13:06):
So when you're more inuniversity, slash after
university.
What do you do now?
Because, believe it or not, Ididn't say my age, but I have
been done with university for awhile already, not that long,
but just saying.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Try to guess, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So.
But the point is, you know assoon as you're done university,
or like almost done university.
From then on it's all about sowhen are you getting married?
When are you getting married?
This is the biggest challenge,I find, because this is where
you know you're no longer at thestage where you can say, well,
I'm focusing on my studies.
Well, guess what You're donewith your studies.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Moving on, so I feel like it's so true because as
soon as you get that diploma andyou're ready, it's like you're
ready to have a child, like toget married, have a child, like
it's like so automatic that youcan't have anything in between.
I like I recently beentraveling and I felt like, is
(14:07):
this right or wrong?
It's like can I just have funon my own?
Am I able to do that?
And it's such, it's craved inour minds from such a young age
that I actually thought by 24, Iwas going to be married ready,
have a kid, or maybe not, but atleast thinking about getting a
kid.
You know, I'm so not close tothat, but I'm still happy and
(14:31):
I'm content.
So that's.
I know that men, we are pushedto be ready financially.
It's such a responsibility tobe ready for marriage and within
a certain age.
What is on the other side?
What is the pressures that youfeel on that side?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, that's going to be a good one.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
It's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So pressures on the girls side is to be open to talk
to people.
It's to be open to get to knowpeople and not to be like too
much of a perfectionist or notto be, you know, too stuck on
certain things, like you have toknow what you're going for and
what you're letting go of.
And so that is pressure.
Because then when people doapproach you but you really
(15:20):
clearly don't feel comfortableor you don't feel like it's the
right person for you, you knowit's a challenge to say no, not
only because you know you don'twant the other person to feel
hurt because it has nothing todo with them, but whether you
like it or not, right, it's arelationship.
But that's not the biggestchallenge.
I think the biggest challengeis having people around you
(15:42):
understand that you said no andbe okay with it because it's
like but what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Time is flying, you're going to miss the train,
and you know there is a trainthat that train that I don't
understand, that everyone is, isfalling on.
Like that I missed theconstruction, like where is it?
Like I don't, I don't get it.
Why is people so focused onfollowing a train and not just
enjoying their life?
And funny enough is thatstatistic, statistically, it's
(16:13):
not very like fun, like it's notvery opening to get married,
like 55% of marriages actuallyfail and end in divorce.
So it's not as if I'm sayingdon't get married, but like at
least plan it well.
Like you know, if I'm going toopen a business, I'm going to
(16:35):
think twice about the money I'mgoing to invest.
I feel like investing that muchof me which is financially,
emotionally, mentally,physically, you know,
psychologically that's evenbigger.
You know just everything.
And I'm just going to pick thefirst one that comes and be like
so that everyone is okay withit.
I understand that point.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
So, if I can just say , like, what's funny is my view
on this as much as on work isthe same.
It's for work, For work.
I'm going to retire a long timefrom now, so there is no point
for me to try to get stuck inone job, but that's.
I'm not encouraging people toswitch from one job to the next
all the time.
That's not what I'm saying.
But what I'm saying is you knowyou want to make sure that
(17:19):
whatever job you're going to bestaying in for very long is the
one job that you really want tobe doing for this long.
You still have a long way to gobefore retirement.
Same with marriage and ourChristian Orthodox beliefs there
is no divorce.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So once you are getting married.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't want to call it stuck, but if you are going
to be stuck, you better be stuckwith the right person, right?
So you know once you're married, you are not going back and
this is going to be until death.
So that's why there is no point, in my opinion, to rush things
or to just say yes for the sakeof saying yes and to say that
I'm getting married.
(17:59):
So all this to say these arethe main challenges.
It's all the ways about thepressures of people not exactly
seeing what you're doing and whyyou're doing certain things,
and I can share with yousomething very personal about
that part.
But you know what I felt likenow that I'm done with my
studies, because I did take abit longer, I did do a master's,
(18:20):
so I do have a master's ofeducation.
But now that I'm done with allof that, I feel like this is the
time, exactly like you weresaying.
You know, we started traveling.
Well, same thing for me.
Not necessarily just travelingthis is definitely part of it
but also just using more of mytalents in different places,
whether it be, you know, playingmusic or singing hymns, tenanim
(18:42):
, all of these things.
This is the time for it because, whether we like it or not,
people who are married haveresponsibilities.
Marriage comes with its ownresponsibilities, so it's not
like you're going to be free todo whatever you want afterwards.
So I think what's reallyimportant is to take every
single period of our time tojust of our life.
(19:05):
I mean to just grow right.
Use that time.
So now I'm not married, mightas well, use this time.
You know, it's not aboutrunning and rushing to just get
married.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
And it's true, because we're so focused, I
think I feel I feel sad forthose people that pressure other
people and if I feel likesometimes I ask myself has there
not like, is there nothinghappening that you need to
comment?
Or you need to get into someoneelse's way and to ask, hey,
(19:38):
what's up?
When are you getting married?
Like I feel like have you notbeen in that position and like
felt it yourself?
Why would you do it to someoneelse?
I'm with you.
So studies is you know we'vetalked about studies and I know
that picking the right.
I think the one thing that Ibelieve from my heart is Just
(20:02):
trying.
Like I really had theopportunity to redo Cezep and I
was really like I did not saymuch because I felt like it was
such a taboo, but for me it wasvery smart, for me financially
and also for me to test out andto see like I was not going to
engineering.
So what am I supposed to do?
So I rethought my whole processand I was like I'm going to try
(20:26):
out a lot of classes, I want topick those I love, I'm going to
go with that, and now I foundmy passion.
Now, after that, your work andpeople tell you oh my God, why
did you quit?
You need to be stable.
I'm not going to pick somethingthat I love and a place that
respects me and I'm going tospend 40 hours I don't think I
(20:46):
actually spent 40 hours in thewhole week at home and I'm going
to spend 40 hours at work andI'm going to be pushed to
respect what they think is veryhard.
And lastly, for relationships,I'm going to pick someone that
will stay with me till my deathand I'm going to pick the wrong
person is very hard.
So what should we do?
So, if we have all those painpoints and everything that, like
(21:08):
, I try to summarize with allthis being said, what should we
be doing then?
What should be be?
My man said Should I be justgoing for a revolution and
revolt, or what is theguidelines I could follow?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
So just to go back to what you were just mentioning
about people getting into otherpeople's business and just
asking questions all the timeUnfortunately, people don't
realize again goes back to thepoint of saying people say it
out of love.
I'm not going to say everybody,to be honest.
Certain people just say it out,ask questions out of curiosity
and they just want to put thatpressure on you.
(21:45):
I'm like, hey, you know, atsome point can I just say this?
It's very funny.
But at some point someone toldme like when are we going to you
know, rejoice for you.
But you know, in our Egyptiancommunity that means like when
are you going to get married?
And so I was like, why aren'tyou rejoicing for me?
Right, it wasn't Arabic, so I'mtrying to translate this.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Are you not happy for me for now?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Exactly, it's like why aren't you happy for me?
And the person looked at melike you know what I'm saying,
Like, because I know what you'resaying.
That's exactly what I'manswering this way.
Who said that it's me gettingmarried that's going to make you
happy, or make me happy, forthat matter.
So you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But I would challenge that also and say I've, like,
listened a lot and I've heard alot and I don't know for a fact,
but I think motherhood is suchsomething, something that is
such an important element forgirls and women, that missing
out on that could be fetalVersus a complete or a
(22:49):
successful career.
I think motherhood takes it,even though it's very hard, as a
career, as a job, if you wantto compare it literally.
But to miss out on that is alsovery hard.
So what can we?
What is the middle?
How do you manage both ways, asin I'm trying to, without being
pressured, and at the same timeI'm trying to push out those
(23:14):
people?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So you know, there are a few things about that, so
one of them is we need tounderstand that everything has a
time under heaven, right?
I can't, you know, come up withthe exact verse right away, but
everything happens in its righttime.
It's not because I'm notmarried today that I'm never
(23:37):
going to get married or havechildren.
You know what I mean.
And so, of course, motherhoodis a success in itself.
Again, in this, in today'sworld, I believe women need to
be very, very well prepared forthat, because it's not easy, you
know, to raise a child intoday's world, and in everything
(23:59):
that we go through, you knowthe standards, just how everyone
lives nowadays.
So what's more of a success tome is to grow, to be ready for
that point in my life, right?
So, yes, being a mother is asuccess in itself, but the fact
that I'm not there yet nowdoesn't mean that I'm never
(24:20):
going to get there.
I'm supposed to be using thistime to prepare for it and to
have the best that I can offeronce it's time for me for any of
the coming stages of life.
Okay, so, yeah, another thingabout.
So, going back to your questionof what can we do, and that's
both for me as a person goingthrough these struggles, and for
(24:40):
people who are trying to askpeople questions all the time.
It's be content with who youare, be content with who others
are.
So, you know, in the book ofMatthew it says blessed are the
meek.
But do we actually know whatmeek means?
Actually, the Greek word formeek means gentle, considerate,
unassuming, so it's aboutshowing kindness and love for
(25:04):
others.
It's really the opposite ofbeing arrogant or self-seeking
or asking people all the time to, just, you know, feed my
curiosity.
It's against all that.
So, from a person, from theperspective of someone who keeps
asking, I need to remind myselfthat I need to be meek in order
to inherit the earth, and so Ineed to be loving towards others
(25:27):
and for myself, going throughthe struggles, I also need to be
meek, meaning being gentletowards myself also, again, to
fulfill this commandment.
So that's for this part Interms of other.
So you were asking about othertips.
(25:48):
You know what else can we do?
So other things that are veryimportant are to just trust God.
Trust God, all things worktogether for good to those who
love Christ right, to those whoare called according to His
purpose.
And so if I trust God, if I askHim for direction every morning,
(26:08):
if I pray and truly trust thathe is giving me what I need in
the right time, then I will kindof shut every other noise from
me, right, I'm going to shut itout and I'm not going to listen
to people pressuring or andhonestly I'm saying this, but
(26:30):
I'm going through it and it'snot easy because you hear people
, you hear what they say andespecially when it's people who
are important to you, you hearthem and it can hurt and it can
make you overthink a lot.
But it's important to get backup and not to just feel like I
(26:50):
got everything wrong in my lifeand I'm not following any of the
things that I should be doingin my life.
It's always to get back up andrealize who am I following truly
at the end of the day?
Am I following what people wantme to be doing or am I truly
following God's calling in mylife?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I would love to challenge that, because in the
story of Amakari, was Godactually spoke to him through a
child, through a kid?
So the man of monasticism, theman of wisdom, had to listen,
from a kid.
So someone that would come upto you and say, you know, like
God is telling me, I was pushedinto your way, or God, like we
(27:38):
were reunited.
In this moment and I have thatthought and I want to tell you
this and I want to ask Peoplesay like, and it's all about,
and, like you said, it's allcoming from love.
How can I differentiate fromsomething that God is telling me
, from other people and whenit's just noise?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
build your relationship with God.
I know it sounds like a Sundayschool answer, but it is what it
comes down to, because the moreI will build my relationship
with God, the more I can clearlyhear His voice.
So if I truly feel and hear Hisvoice, then I will know for
(28:23):
sure that what I'm listening tois from Him and not noise.
I truly believe that God iswell.
It's also His words.
God is not a God of confusion,right?
So if I'm confused aboutsomething, or if something makes
me very uncomfortable andunsure, I don't believe that
it's coming from God.
So and I might be wrong, butthis is how I see it If I'm
(28:47):
really not sure and notcomfortable and confused, then
it's not coming from God.
So it's probably noise, and itdoesn't matter who it's coming
from.
It could be coming from someonethat I don't trust whatsoever,
and it could be coming fromsomeone that is really dear to
me.
And again, it's not aboutrespecting these people less or
anything, but it's really abouttrying to go for what God has
(29:10):
called me to do and not what theworld is asking me to do.
And so in order to be able todo that, it's important for me
to just walk with God.
You know, I know I'm bringingsomething up that has nothing to
do with this, but it's becausewe heard about or we were
discussing this a few weeks agoat a Bible study meeting.
(29:30):
But does anybody know anythingabout Enoch in the Bible?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, not much.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Not much.
There is literally one sentenceabout him in the.
Bible and it says at the end ofthe sentence.
It says, or two sentences Enochwalked with God and then he was
not, for God took him.
What does that mean?
Nobody really.
You know the Bible didn'tbother writing about how he
lived his life, how he gotmarried, what he did as a job.
(30:00):
All of this doesn't matter atthe end of the day.
What matters is that he walkedwith God and therefore he was no
longer because God took him.
And I think that if this is mypurpose in life, I will let God
use me in whatever way he wants.
I will not worry about what amI doing exactly as a job right
now.
What am I, you know, studying?
Who am I talking to?
(30:20):
I will ask God to constantlyuse me in whatever way he wants
for the glory of his name, andso I don't care about what the
community things or standardsare.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
So what about your free will?
You still have a mind to use, afree will to exercise.
What about those, if I'm gonnajust let God run me like a puppy
, a robot?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
No, no, that's not how it is.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So you probably what do you mean?
Like for God to tell me what todo or to choose from me.
What is different than for meto become a puppy for him?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So here, is something very important that you said
and that I wanted.
Maybe if I said that this isnot what I'm trying to say, so
God doesn't choose for me, godguides me, okay?
So God is really there to guideme and it's like a GPS, right?
You've heard that, we've heardthat a million times.
But it works like a GPS.
(31:25):
So if I'm getting lost, if I'mchoosing the wrong path, god is
always gonna redirect me.
He's always gonna do you know,recalculating, you know but if I
choose to keep going with thewrong way, he's not gonna force
me into going a certain way.
He's constantly gonna show methat there is always this U-turn
(31:46):
or this detour that you cantake in order to take the right
way again.
But I need to be making mychoices, and this is where it's
extremely important for me tolisten to his voice.
If I shut my GPS off, it's okay, nothing's gonna happen, I'm
just gonna get more lost, right?
It's the same.
If I shut God's voice off, I'mnot gonna listen to him anymore
(32:09):
and I'm gonna keep walkingwherever I'm going.
So he's not forcing me intoanything, he's just redirecting
my path all the time.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And how can I know that?
Why God is choosing?
Okay, so we didn't say he'schoosing, so God is guiding me.
And how am I supposed to knowthat where he's gonna guide me
to is actually the right path?
Is there not a second path Icould take?
That is as good.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not
on your own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledgehim and he shall direct your
path.
That's exactly what it is.
If I really trust in the Lord,then I know for a fact that he
will take me.
It doesn't mean I'm not gonnamake any mistakes.
David walked with God.
Was it a perfect walk?
It wasn't, but he was walkingwith God, and so what happened
(33:00):
is he was constantly redirected.
That's exactly what I want tobe doing Is tell God, even if I
mess up, just please have myback.
I know that God has my back andthat he will bring me back to
the right path.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And if I don't believe in him, because for me
to trust it needs to start frombelieving and if I don't believe
in him or I lost belief becauseI lost trust, what?
It's a genuine question.
I don't know how to tell peoplelike I actually trust him, he's
a better out, like.
Whatever you think you'reblaming him, it's not him.
(33:37):
But how we're supposed to tellthem or to show them, or to
prove to them that God is aperson to believe in?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I don't think it's my job to convince people to
believe in God.
I think it's my job to manifestGod's presence in my life.
So by going through what I gothrough my resilience, my
persistence, the way that I justtrust in God, by seeing me
trust in God, people will cometo believe eventually.
(34:10):
And by seeing me succeed whilejust trusting in God, I believe
that people can come to believein God as well.
So I don't think it's my placeto just try to convince people
like you need to believe in God.
But I think someone whogenuinely wants to know if there
(34:33):
is God is going to ask for it.
He's going to ask for God tomanifest himself.
This is what really happened inmost of the stories that we
hear, right.
So someone is asking God if youactually exist, please manifest
yourself.
And when that happens, thesepeople are going to see him
through different things.
It could be through literally akid walking around or through
(34:54):
something really intense thathappens in their lives.
So 100%.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I'm with you 100%.
It is beautiful to sometimesread those stories or actually
watch those stories or actuallysee them in real life, where a
whole life changes because youhaven't done it.
You haven't done it just by thegrace of God.
He completed what you weredoing and it just enlightened
(35:23):
someone around you and it justblessed them for a moment to
realize that and to just becurious.
And just a beginning, because Iremember I had to like I had a
moment of where I justcompletely stopped believing
because I was.
I had enough of what people orthe community had to say around
(35:46):
me that I was like there'ssomething wrong in what this is
or what Christianity is, andthis is unfortunately some path
that we push people to.
And from there I had to gothrough a pain detour for me to
understand that my only place isin that noise, where I had to
(36:08):
go through that noise and tolive with that noise but yet
struggle in that noise andbecome better.
I feel I want to say somethingto those people that are making
the noise and with all love, asmuch as they have love, I also
do have love with them.
I just wish that I had people.
(36:33):
I had people.
No, sorry, I had amazing peoplein my journey where they were
here to support me, to talk tome, and the darkest like no one
knows about that but the biggestpeople that pushed me away were
the biggest noise that pushedpeople around them.
(36:54):
I'm just telling them like foryour own sake, like not stop,
but like watch out for yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, and it starts with you and me.
I think it's important for usto be the example of what we
want others to do and to reallythat's one thing that I try to
tell myself all the time is bethe good friend that you want
people to have.
It's not try to go find thebest friends, it's try to be the
best friend that you can be forothers, so the one that's going
(37:25):
to actually support them andnot lead them astray, you know,
the one that's going to helpbring them up and not put them
down by asking them all kinds ofquestions and making them feel
bad about their lives andstruggle more.
So I think that's veryimportant.
Can I say one thing that I justwanted to mention, for Of
(37:48):
course.
So one thing that can help mefind success in life every
single day is to just say justlike Isaac said.
So then Isaac said oh Lord, godof my master Abraham, please
give me success this day andshow kindness to my master
Abraham, right?
So this is what Isaac said.
(38:09):
I know in his context it was tofind his wife, but that's such
a powerful verse to just sayevery single morning.
If I just start every dayasking God to please give me
success this day, wow, we willsee wonders.
Honestly, okay, because it'ssuccess on all levels.
(38:30):
I can ask God for success atall levels, whether it be in
relationships, in work or justin general, to be a good person
and to again to do God's work sothat they may see our good
works and glorify his name.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And that's why I noted a few small list of four
or five things to do or tofollow that it could help you at
least find your way throughoutthe noise.
So don't follow, binding withRomans 12 to that we mentioned
so, and do not be confirmed intothis world and be transformed
(39:09):
by the renewing of your mindthat you may prove that what is
that good and acceptable andperfect will of God?
Then, to have mercy and to knowjustice, to just, you know,
have mercy.
We all remember, because theonly I'm sad to say that, but
only time that I really feel theword mercy or the word have
(39:30):
mercy is in liturgy and it justafter that, it just, it's only
justice.
I want what's right for me, sowe take upon ourselves to make
everything just and justiceaccording to what I think is
justice, not what what is betterfrom my solution, regardless of
the other, but this verse wasbeautiful.
(39:52):
He has shown you, oh man, whatis good and what does the Lord
require of you, but to do justjustly, to love mercy and to
walk humbly with your God.
That's Makai 6, 8, beautiful,beautiful verse.
I was really shocked when hesaid, oh man, but like you
socked me, efficient 5, 8 withlive in God's light, for you
(40:18):
were once darkness and now youare light and the Lord walk as
children of light.
And it's just beautiful, for,like you know, for any other
thoughts or temptation or issues, we're going through just to
help each other and to just be asupport.
(40:38):
And that's why the other onethat I'm just going to mention
is beautiful, and that's firstCorinthians 10, 31.
Therefore, whether you eat ordrink or whatever you do, do all
to the glory of God, and it'sit's, it's a beautiful,
(40:59):
beautiful way to end this.
I have a little game for you.
So we know, we know a lot of ofthe Egyptian culture, the
Coptic culture I have, I have,like, I have written a list of
different social norms indifferent countries and I want,
(41:20):
I want to, I want to know do youfeel like it resembles ours, or
is it the complete opposite ordifferent than ours?
Okay, so in France?
In France, it is consideredpolite to kiss acquaintances on
both cheeks when meeting them.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Okay, For us it's probably IAB.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
It's probably for people that we do know or we
don't like.
What is, what is the?
Because France, there's a lotof like.
For them, it's a different like.
There's a whole system of howto meet and to greet.
So what is ours, what is the?
Known unwritten rule aboutgreeting people.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
In Canada or in Egypt , because we're talking about
different things already.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Egyptian in Canada.
How is it Well Egyptians?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
in Egypt, it would probably be by hand.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, handshakes.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Handshakes.
So here it's going to be.
I don't know, depends, dependswhere you go.
Sometimes it's hugs, sometimesit's just saying hi from far,
sometimes it's high, high five.
That's a cool one.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's actually true, because you don't know how the
other person shit is greeting.
So but you're gonna love,because in Germany it is
customary to shake hands witheveryone you meet, both men and
women.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
But it's funny that you're saying it's an actual
polite thing to do, it's astandard for them.
For us it can be the opposite.
It can cause problems if let'ssay you're in a relationship and
the other person sees yougreeting someone in a certain
way or being greeted a certainway, and that could be a problem
.
So I have to make.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It could cause a lot of discussions.
Yeah, I need to talk to you.
Discussions it is customary toin, so in Japan it is customary
to take your shoes off whenentering someone's home.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, I think that's that's normal.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So that's something that resembles ours, our norms,
talent also.
By the way, it is customary toremove their shoes when they're
entering a home and also Funnything is India it is considered
rude to show the soles of yourfeet and to point your feet at
someone else.
There's something thatresembles.
That is Sandals.
(43:32):
Have ever, have ever, been toldto switch?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh yes, your sandals, because they're yes, down, yes,
but I think that's more of athing with like oh the devil or
some superstition, yes, butsomeone told me Turn it upside,
turn it back, because you'reshowing the soul of your, of
your sandals towards God.
And I'm like oh Okay, no, Inever heard that one.
I.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Was like okay you know I telling me that my shoe
is insulting God.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
No, but honestly, I think we do have these standards
as well.
At least you know from Like,for example for me, from my
grandma.
I can't be sitting crossed legs, I can't be sitting, you know
like that.
In front of someone who's older, it's not respectful to be
sitting like that.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
You have to be sitting up straight and you know
so in the in Japan also, theyare known for the slurping while
eating to show Respect and toshow that they loved the food to
the chef.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Okay, how about?
No, you do that for here, herefor us, and it just sounds weird
and rude, like you don't wantto hear that and one of the last
points, actually have two leftand they're funny because I love
them to the end, becausethey're funny one.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
So in Malaysia they point with their thumb.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
For what?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
anything.
They want to bust, they want toknow to point something out if
I want to point to something.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh, instead of going with this one.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, and instead of your, your index, you go with
the thumb.
Interesting and the last one isNicaragua, the actual user
tongue.
The point.
It's good that I cut that piece.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Why would you want to do that?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
but it's there.
It's there, it's their culturalnorms and it's as fun as this.
It's different, but imaginethat it.
Just imagine that in theircountry, for them it's normal
mm-hmm as the point of thissmall mini game and just as much
as we had fun naming differentnorms is to also show, it's to
(45:51):
also tell people that Everyonehas their own way, you know yes
if I'm gonna live it this way orthat way doesn't mean that I'm
doing it wrong, mm-hmm.
We have different standards andit's okay to have and it's okay
if my way to respect the chef isto slurp and to make noise and
To eat the way I'm gonna eatpeople.
Sometimes it's on the floorthat they eat.
(46:12):
Some other people is is on onthe table with Cutlery and it's.
It's a different, you know,mentality but it doesn't mean
that one is less than the other,is just different.
Or, for example, to say inIceland it's considered polite
to say thank you after everymeal Registration.
(46:33):
We do have Sentences.
We say when we're done is tobless the place that they may
more, they have more meals.
So it's there.
Every Culture have their way,but unfortunately also every
culture I'll have their ways topush us of balance.
So, yeah, there's, there is adifference between, you know,
(46:57):
having cultural differences andunderstanding the differences
and Understanding what's rightfor God and what I need to limit
for my cultural background.
Say no, this is a mentalitythat inhibits where that stops
me for doing the right thing orto live my life To the fullest.
Thank you so much, joanna, forcoming today.
(47:19):
I am sorry if I Jumped you withthe weird norms today.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
No, that was so much fun.
Thank you so much for having me.
I really had a pleasure beinghere.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Thank you, guys for listening today the fifth
episode with Joanna.
Hopefully you enjoyed.
Push the like button, share andtell your friends about this
podcast.
Thank you very much and Godbless.
Hey everyone and welcome again.
Now we're at the fifth episodeof the Southern Light Parkhouse,
so I want to welcome Joanna.
I want to present yourself andalso tell us something about you
, and why did you pick thistopic.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right.
So hi, vishay, my name isJoanna and I'm very happy to be
here today.
So I'm a Coptic OrthodoxChristian girl and I actually am
a corporate trainer, so I havea passion for teaching, but I
also love playing music andsinging, so I actually played
that one.
So, yeah, the reason why Ichose this topic is because I
(00:35):
think it's a very hot topicnowadays, one that we all go
through or have to deal with ona daily basis, when everybody
asks you questions every timethey see you and you're just
like, oh, not again, and you'retrying to just do your life and
keep following God's path foryou.
I think it's very important forus to discuss this topic so
(00:58):
that people who are goingthrough the same thing as me can
know how to tackle it and howto just not be afraid of telling
people what they're doing,despite the standards of the
community.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's a great way to say it, and I actually found an
amazing definition from UNICEFitself about the community
standards or social norms, andit says social norms are the
perceived, informal, mostlyunwritten rules that define
acceptable and appropriateactions within a given group or
(01:30):
community, thus guiding humanbehavior.
And, like you said, we arealways pushed to said behavior
because they believe, and that'swhy we want to a bit discuss
and see.
I want to know what did you gothrough and differentiate
whatever is thinking differentlyversus yours.
(01:53):
So what kind of thoughts wereyou early in your childhood?
Were you more apparent to, oryou heard a lot?
What happened to you or peoplearound you?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
So there are three points that I would probably
tackle.
The first one would be thestudies part.
So, as I was growing up,obviously everyone around was
asking what are you going to bedoing when you're older?
What do you want to study?
And at first you don'tnecessarily know.
But the more you hear peopletelling you, I see you as this,
(02:31):
I see you as a doctor, I see youas that, and then you start
believing it just because peopleare saying it.
So you start repeating that aswell and telling everybody that
you want to become a doctor.
But what if that's not God'splan for me?
What if this is not where mytalents actually belong?
And so that was one of my firststruggles as I was going
through my studies.
Then the second part is withwork.
(02:54):
Some people go straight to thejob that they're going to be
doing and this is what theystick to for a long time, and
other people explore differentthings and build different
talents as they go, or differentskills, as I can say.
So that was the second part,and the third part is obviously
relationships.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And I am with you 100% because all three aspects
we have different challengesthroughout our different aspects
of life.
So I want to start withchildhood and all three aspects.
Tell me, what did you findyourself challenged with in
(03:37):
every of those aspects?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So during my childhood.
Let's start with studies.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Let's start with studies and tell me, were you
maybe tackle or push to dosomething specific?
What was the mindset back thenand what were you thinking at
that time only?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, so to start with the childhood part, I'm a
Coptic Orthodox girl, meaningalso Egyptian.
So, that being said, our onlyoptions in life really are being
a doctor, an engineer, and itcould pass if you're a lawyer.
But I wasn't really interestedin either of these, actually,
(04:20):
when I was younger, becauseeverybody was telling me oh, I
see you as a doctor, you'd besuch a good doctor for me, and
so on and so forth.
You know, I believed it and Idon't.
You don't want to deceivepeople around you, you don't
want to put them down.
You want them to be proud ofyou.
You want them to be happy withwhat you're doing, right.
So this is actually what Istarted working towards and I
actually completed my studies,you know, went to CJAP and then
(04:43):
went to university but startedwith an undergrad in kinesiology
, hoping to actually get intomedicine afterwards.
But plans changed and actuallythroughout my undergrad, I
realized it was actually not forme.
I didn't like it.
I was actually doing a few jobsas well in the field, so in the
health care field in general,yanyi.
(05:04):
So, and I just didn't enjoy it.
I didn't feel like it was theplace for me.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So for you, that was from childhood.
You were challenged to becomesomething and made the way you
found yourself completely offand it took you.
So, if you don't mind, when didyou realize that it wasn't your
thing?
Do you have a moment where,like this moment, I realized I
had to change plan?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yes, it was actually at the end of my undergrad and I
realized I was actually workingat an osteoclinic, so I was
kind of seeing what it lookslike in the health care field in
general.
Again, I wasn't even touchingactual medicine, but just from
there it was the point where Isaid you know what?
I don't want to deal withactual patients.
(05:53):
I like to see people who arehealthy.
I don't like to necessarilydeal with them while they're
patients.
Don't get me wrong.
I love helping people and I'mall for it, but I don't want it
to be my actual job for life.
Okay, so that was kind of atriggering point for me to say I
don't think this is where myskills will be the best or will
(06:14):
benefit me to the maximum.
Also, I felt like God gave metalents that I could use
elsewhere.
Among other things, I wasmentioning my passion for
teaching.
That was something I alwaysloved to do and I believe it's
really something that big partof it is a talent God gave me to
be able to transmit information.
To be clear, maybe I'm not asarticulate right now, but you
(06:35):
know as a teacher.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
No, you're doing great, by the way, you're doing
amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
As a teacher.
I felt like I feel like God didgive me this part, so I thought
why not use that talent toactually have it as a job as
well?
Right, I'm not necessarily thebest person who's going to
memorize everything you know,and these are the skills
required for a doctor, forexample.
I thought, well, I can actuallyuse my talents and that could
(07:01):
become my job as well.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
And did you?
When you realized you had tochange career, did you find
yourself or did you face anychallenges around you?
Yeah, of course, and but tellme, was it usually like there's
different answers for these, butwhat was your biggest challenge
and how did you actually?
(07:24):
How did you face it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So obviously, when you tell people around you
nobody likes change, right, it'snot that nobody likes change,
but people like to stay wherethey know they are and where
they're just comfortable.
So for me to come out and sayyou know what, I'm leaving the
healthcare field completely,it's not even like, oh, I'm
going to do occupational therapyinstead.
(07:51):
It's no, I'm not doing any ofthis healthcare side and I'm
literally going to the otherside completely.
So the educational side.
So that's kind of just like abig shot.
So my biggest challenge, whichwas actually probably convincing
my close, my close, the peopleclosest to me, obviously family,
friends, people who are reallyconcerned about my future,
(08:14):
because I know that they love meand I think it's it's something
that we all go through is wecan feel it as pressure.
We all know that it's comingfrom a point of love, but the
thing is we do feel it aspressure, right?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Is it justifiable that because it comes from love
that we need to accept thatpressure?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But that's exactly the challenge is only because
it's coming from love.
It does not only because it'scoming from love do I have to
actually accept right.
So this is where it's achallenge that I understand that
you are talking to me from thefact that you actually love me
and are concerned and care aboutme and about my future.
But I see things differentlyand I don't have to actually
(09:00):
abide by the general standardsthat people have right.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And it's good that you said that because it's not
only regarding, you know, ourdifferences with parents.
It could be also taken in alarger way.
I actually know beautiful versefrom Romans 12 to and do not be
conformed to this world.
Be transformed by the renewingof your mind that you may prove
that it is that good andacceptable and perfect will of
(09:29):
God.
And for me, that's what, when Ialso realized I was doing the
wrong thing and I actually, froma guy that used the ace to
actually sleep in class and notable to focus and not even
concerned or even lookingforward to anything you know
(09:50):
academically, I had to sit downand think about it and the
pressure that I received and theinformation I received from
outside was be that, be thisgoal in this career?
And I actually looked in what Ilove and am passionate about
and I'm ready to sacrifice andpush myself for more.
(10:11):
There was a completelydifferent area and from that, it
was like I was lost.
I was the last sheep that foundand like you know, a crazy idea
and I'm just going to throw hisfuture in it.
So I totally believe thatmoment where like, yeah, I'm not
(10:32):
doing this, I'm about to go tomarketing and the other only
reckon is like what is marketing?
It's not going to bring youmoney, it's not going to give
you a future.
It's a big doctor that this is,it's going to make money.
You're going to be this andthat and and and it's and it's
stable.
Everything is about stable andwe are afraid of doing different
(10:54):
Other than work.
You mentioned also so studiesand work.
You also mentioned your love,everything that is relationship.
What are the pressures thatyou've seen when you're younger,
especially in, like high schooland all that we start to pick
in the and start to like peoplefrom the other sex and all.
(11:17):
So this is where we startdeveloping our love and our
interest.
What were the challenges thatyou found yourself in,
especially in the Western world,versus a community that comes
from Middle East?
What were the differences thatyou saw and how did you face it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So if we talk about relationships, actually, funny
enough, I never really feel thesame pressure itself from the
Western community itself,because I grew up in such a way
that I got so used to not reallypaying attention to what these
standards are.
So you know, throughout highschool, for example, when people
had boyfriends, girlfriendsthat's not my kind of style.
(11:59):
I wasn't really bothered bythat.
I don't think this is whatbothered me most.
I don't think this is where Ifaced the biggest challenges.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Aren't you not questioned?
Of not having a boyfriend atthat stage, you'd be like why
don't you have a boyfriend now,like everyone has a boyfriend?
What was your answer to that?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So I was questioned about that multiple times, but
my answer was simply I believethat this is not the right time
for me and you know I'm notgoing to go too far into this,
because many different views areokay to be thought like I'm not
going for one specific type ofview but for me this was not the
(12:42):
right time.
And to pursue or to talk tosomeone without having an actual
goal was not very useful.
So I didn't see the purpose ofhaving a boyfriend, girlfriend,
at that time, at this period oftime where I'm really supposed
to be focusing on my studiesright, because we're talking
about high school Now.
The real challenge happenslater, right?
(13:06):
So when you're more inuniversity, slash after
university.
What do you do now?
Because, believe it or not, Ididn't say my age, but I have
been done with university for awhile already, not that long,
but just saying.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Try to guess, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So.
But the point is, you know assoon as you're done university,
or like almost done university.
From then on it's all about sowhen are you getting married?
When are you getting married?
This is the biggest challenge,I find, because this is where
you know you're no longer at thestage where you can say, well,
I'm focusing on my studies.
Well, guess what You're donewith your studies.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Moving on, so I feel like it's so true because as
soon as you get that diploma andyou're ready, it's like you're
ready to have a child, like toget married, have a child, like
it's like so automatic that youcan't have anything in between.
I like I recently beentraveling and I felt like, is
(14:07):
this right or wrong?
It's like can I just have funon my own?
Am I able to do that?
And it's such, it's craved inour minds from such a young age
that I actually thought by 24, Iwas going to be married ready,
have a kid, or maybe not, but atleast thinking about getting a
kid.
You know, I'm so not close tothat, but I'm still happy and
(14:31):
I'm content.
So that's.
I know that men, we are pushedto be ready financially.
It's such a responsibility tobe ready for marriage and within
a certain age.
What is on the other side?
What is the pressures that youfeel on that side?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, that's going to be a good one.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
It's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So pressures on the girls side is to be open to talk
to people.
It's to be open to get to knowpeople and not to be like too
much of a perfectionist or notto be, you know, too stuck on
certain things, like you have toknow what you're going for and
what you're letting go of.
And so that is pressure.
Because then when people doapproach you but you really
(15:20):
clearly don't feel comfortableor you don't feel like it's the
right person for you, you knowit's a challenge to say no, not
only because you know you don'twant the other person to feel
hurt because it has nothing todo with them, but whether you
like it or not, right, it's arelationship.
But that's not the biggestchallenge.
I think the biggest challengeis having people around you
(15:42):
understand that you said no andbe okay with it because it's
like but what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Time is flying, you're going to miss the train,
and you know there is a trainthat that train that I don't
understand, that everyone is, isfalling on.
Like that I missed theconstruction, like where is it?
Like I don't, I don't get it.
Why is people so focused onfollowing a train and not just
enjoying their life?
And funny enough is thatstatistic, statistically, it's
(16:13):
not very like fun, like it's notvery opening to get married,
like 55% of marriages actuallyfail and end in divorce.
So it's not as if I'm sayingdon't get married, but like at
least plan it well.
Like you know, if I'm going toopen a business, I'm going to
(16:35):
think twice about the money I'mgoing to invest.
I feel like investing that muchof me which is financially,
emotionally, mentally,physically, you know,
psychologically that's evenbigger.
You know just everything.
And I'm just going to pick thefirst one that comes and be like
so that everyone is okay withit.
I understand that point.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
So, if I can just say , like, what's funny is my view
on this as much as on work isthe same.
It's for work, For work.
I'm going to retire a long timefrom now, so there is no point
for me to try to get stuck inone job, but that's.
I'm not encouraging people toswitch from one job to the next
all the time.
That's not what I'm saying.
But what I'm saying is you knowyou want to make sure that
(17:19):
whatever job you're going to bestaying in for very long is the
one job that you really want tobe doing for this long.
You still have a long way to gobefore retirement.
Same with marriage and ourChristian Orthodox beliefs there
is no divorce.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So once you are getting married.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't want to call it stuck, but if you are going
to be stuck, you better be stuckwith the right person, right?
So you know once you're married, you are not going back and
this is going to be until death.
So that's why there is no point, in my opinion, to rush things
or to just say yes for the sakeof saying yes and to say that
I'm getting married.
(17:59):
So all this to say these arethe main challenges.
It's all the ways about thepressures of people not exactly
seeing what you're doing and whyyou're doing certain things,
and I can share with yousomething very personal about
that part.
But you know what I felt likenow that I'm done with my
studies, because I did take abit longer, I did do a master's,
(18:20):
so I do have a master's ofeducation.
But now that I'm done with allof that, I feel like this is the
time, exactly like you weresaying.
You know, we started traveling.
Well, same thing for me.
Not necessarily just travelingthis is definitely part of it
but also just using more of mytalents in different places,
whether it be, you know, playingmusic or singing hymns, tenanim
(18:42):
, all of these things.
This is the time for it because, whether we like it or not,
people who are married haveresponsibilities.
Marriage comes with its ownresponsibilities, so it's not
like you're going to be free todo whatever you want afterwards.
So I think what's reallyimportant is to take every
single period of our time tojust of our life.
(19:05):
I mean to just grow right.
Use that time.
So now I'm not married, mightas well, use this time.
You know, it's not aboutrunning and rushing to just get
married.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
And it's true, because we're so focused, I
think I feel I feel sad forthose people that pressure other
people and if I feel likesometimes I ask myself has there
not like, is there nothinghappening that you need to
comment?
Or you need to get into someoneelse's way and to ask, hey,
(19:38):
what's up?
When are you getting married?
Like I feel like have you notbeen in that position and like
felt it yourself?
Why would you do it to someoneelse?
I'm with you.
So studies is you know we'vetalked about studies and I know
that picking the right.
I think the one thing that Ibelieve from my heart is Just
(20:02):
trying.
Like I really had theopportunity to redo Cezep and I
was really like I did not saymuch because I felt like it was
such a taboo, but for me it wasvery smart, for me financially
and also for me to test out andto see like I was not going to
engineering.
So what am I supposed to do?
So I rethought my whole processand I was like I'm going to try
(20:26):
out a lot of classes, I want topick those I love, I'm going to
go with that, and now I foundmy passion.
Now, after that, your work andpeople tell you oh my God, why
did you quit?
You need to be stable.
I'm not going to pick somethingthat I love and a place that
respects me and I'm going tospend 40 hours I don't think I
(20:46):
actually spent 40 hours in thewhole week at home and I'm going
to spend 40 hours at work andI'm going to be pushed to
respect what they think is veryhard.
And lastly, for relationships,I'm going to pick someone that
will stay with me till my deathand I'm going to pick the wrong
person is very hard.
So what should we do?
So, if we have all those painpoints and everything that, like
(21:08):
, I try to summarize with allthis being said, what should we
be doing then?
What should be be?
My man said Should I be justgoing for a revolution and
revolt, or what is theguidelines I could follow?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
So just to go back to what you were just mentioning
about people getting into otherpeople's business and just
asking questions all the timeUnfortunately, people don't
realize again goes back to thepoint of saying people say it
out of love.
I'm not going to say everybody,to be honest.
Certain people just say it out,ask questions out of curiosity
and they just want to put thatpressure on you.
(21:45):
I'm like, hey, you know, atsome point can I just say this?
It's very funny.
But at some point someone toldme like when are we going to you
know, rejoice for you.
But you know, in our Egyptiancommunity that means like when
are you going to get married?
And so I was like, why aren'tyou rejoicing for me?
Right, it wasn't Arabic, so I'mtrying to translate this.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Are you not happy for me for now?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Exactly, it's like why aren't you happy for me?
And the person looked at melike you know what I'm saying,
Like, because I know what you'resaying.
That's exactly what I'manswering this way.
Who said that it's me gettingmarried that's going to make you
happy, or make me happy, forthat matter.
So you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
But I would challenge that also and say I've, like,
listened a lot and I've heard alot and I don't know for a fact,
but I think motherhood is suchsomething, something that is
such an important element forgirls and women, that missing
out on that could be fetalVersus a complete or a
(22:49):
successful career.
I think motherhood takes it,even though it's very hard, as a
career, as a job, if you wantto compare it literally.
But to miss out on that is alsovery hard.
So what can we?
What is the middle?
How do you manage both ways, asin I'm trying to, without being
pressured, and at the same timeI'm trying to push out those
(23:14):
people?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So you know, there are a few things about that, so
one of them is we need tounderstand that everything has a
time under heaven, right?
I can't, you know, come up withthe exact verse right away, but
everything happens in its righttime.
It's not because I'm notmarried today that I'm never
(23:37):
going to get married or havechildren.
You know what I mean.
And so, of course, motherhoodis a success in itself.
Again, in this, in today'sworld, I believe women need to
be very, very well prepared forthat, because it's not easy, you
know, to raise a child intoday's world, and in everything
(23:59):
that we go through, you knowthe standards, just how everyone
lives nowadays.
So what's more of a success tome is to grow, to be ready for
that point in my life, right?
So, yes, being a mother is asuccess in itself, but the fact
that I'm not there yet nowdoesn't mean that I'm never
(24:20):
going to get there.
I'm supposed to be using thistime to prepare for it and to
have the best that I can offeronce it's time for me for any of
the coming stages of life.
Okay, so, yeah, another thingabout.
So, going back to your questionof what can we do, and that's
both for me as a person goingthrough these struggles, and for
(24:40):
people who are trying to askpeople questions all the time.
It's be content with who youare, be content with who others
are.
So, you know, in the book ofMatthew it says blessed are the
meek.
But do we actually know whatmeek means?
Actually, the Greek word formeek means gentle, considerate,
unassuming, so it's aboutshowing kindness and love for
(25:04):
others.
It's really the opposite ofbeing arrogant or self-seeking
or asking people all the time to, just, you know, feed my
curiosity.
It's against all that.
So, from a person, from theperspective of someone who keeps
asking, I need to remind myselfthat I need to be meek in order
to inherit the earth, and so Ineed to be loving towards others
(25:27):
and for myself, going throughthe struggles, I also need to be
meek, meaning being gentletowards myself also, again, to
fulfill this commandment.
So that's for this part Interms of other.
So you were asking about othertips.
(25:48):
You know what else can we do?
So other things that are veryimportant are to just trust God.
Trust God, all things worktogether for good to those who
love Christ right, to those whoare called according to His
purpose.
And so if I trust God, if I askHim for direction every morning,
(26:08):
if I pray and truly trust thathe is giving me what I need in
the right time, then I will kindof shut every other noise from
me, right, I'm going to shut itout and I'm not going to listen
to people pressuring or andhonestly I'm saying this, but
(26:30):
I'm going through it and it'snot easy because you hear people
, you hear what they say andespecially when it's people who
are important to you, you hearthem and it can hurt and it can
make you overthink a lot.
But it's important to get backup and not to just feel like I
(26:50):
got everything wrong in my lifeand I'm not following any of the
things that I should be doingin my life.
It's always to get back up andrealize who am I following truly
at the end of the day?
Am I following what people wantme to be doing or am I truly
following God's calling in mylife?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I would love to challenge that, because in the
story of Amakari, was Godactually spoke to him through a
child, through a kid?
So the man of monasticism, theman of wisdom, had to listen,
from a kid.
So someone that would come upto you and say, you know, like
God is telling me, I was pushedinto your way, or God, like we
(27:38):
were reunited.
In this moment and I have thatthought and I want to tell you
this and I want to ask Peoplesay like, and it's all about,
and, like you said, it's allcoming from love.
How can I differentiate fromsomething that God is telling me
, from other people and whenit's just noise?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
build your relationship with God.
I know it sounds like a Sundayschool answer, but it is what it
comes down to, because the moreI will build my relationship
with God, the more I can clearlyhear His voice.
So if I truly feel and hear Hisvoice, then I will know for
(28:23):
sure that what I'm listening tois from Him and not noise.
I truly believe that God iswell.
It's also His words.
God is not a God of confusion,right?
So if I'm confused aboutsomething, or if something makes
me very uncomfortable andunsure, I don't believe that
it's coming from God.
So and I might be wrong, butthis is how I see it If I'm
(28:47):
really not sure and notcomfortable and confused, then
it's not coming from God.
So it's probably noise, and itdoesn't matter who it's coming
from.
It could be coming from someonethat I don't trust whatsoever,
and it could be coming fromsomeone that is really dear to
me.
And again, it's not aboutrespecting these people less or
anything, but it's really abouttrying to go for what God has
(29:10):
called me to do and not what theworld is asking me to do.
And so in order to be able todo that, it's important for me
to just walk with God.
You know, I know I'm bringingsomething up that has nothing to
do with this, but it's becausewe heard about or we were
discussing this a few weeks agoat a Bible study meeting.
(29:30):
But does anybody know anythingabout Enoch in the Bible?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, not much.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Not much.
There is literally one sentenceabout him in the.
Bible and it says at the end ofthe sentence.
It says, or two sentences Enochwalked with God and then he was
not, for God took him.
What does that mean?
Nobody really.
You know the Bible didn'tbother writing about how he
lived his life, how he gotmarried, what he did as a job.
(30:00):
All of this doesn't matter atthe end of the day.
What matters is that he walkedwith God and therefore he was no
longer because God took him.
And I think that if this is mypurpose in life, I will let God
use me in whatever way he wants.
I will not worry about what amI doing exactly as a job right
now.
What am I, you know, studying?
Who am I talking to?
(30:20):
I will ask God to constantlyuse me in whatever way he wants
for the glory of his name, andso I don't care about what the
community things or standardsare.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
So what about your free will?
You still have a mind to use, afree will to exercise.
What about those, if I'm gonnajust let God run me like a puppy
, a robot?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
No, no, that's not how it is.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So you probably what do you mean?
Like for God to tell me what todo or to choose from me.
What is different than for meto become a puppy for him?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So here, is something very important that you said
and that I wanted.
Maybe if I said that this isnot what I'm trying to say, so
God doesn't choose for me, godguides me, okay?
So God is really there to guideme and it's like a GPS, right?
You've heard that, we've heardthat a million times.
But it works like a GPS.
(31:25):
So if I'm getting lost, if I'mchoosing the wrong path, god is
always gonna redirect me.
He's always gonna do you know,recalculating, you know but if I
choose to keep going with thewrong way, he's not gonna force
me into going a certain way.
He's constantly gonna show methat there is always this U-turn
(31:46):
or this detour that you cantake in order to take the right
way again.
But I need to be making mychoices, and this is where it's
extremely important for me tolisten to his voice.
If I shut my GPS off, it's okay, nothing's gonna happen, I'm
just gonna get more lost, right?
It's the same.
If I shut God's voice off, I'mnot gonna listen to him anymore
(32:09):
and I'm gonna keep walkingwherever I'm going.
So he's not forcing me intoanything, he's just redirecting
my path all the time.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And how can I know that?
Why God is choosing?
Okay, so we didn't say he'schoosing, so God is guiding me.
And how am I supposed to knowthat where he's gonna guide me
to is actually the right path?
Is there not a second path Icould take?
That is as good.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not
on your own understanding.
In all your ways, acknowledgehim and he shall direct your
path.
That's exactly what it is.
If I really trust in the Lord,then I know for a fact that he
will take me.
It doesn't mean I'm not gonnamake any mistakes.
David walked with God.
Was it a perfect walk?
It wasn't, but he was walkingwith God, and so what happened
(33:00):
is he was constantly redirected.
That's exactly what I want tobe doing Is tell God, even if I
mess up, just please have myback.
I know that God has my back andthat he will bring me back to
the right path.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And if I don't believe in him, because for me
to trust it needs to start frombelieving and if I don't believe
in him or I lost belief becauseI lost trust, what?
It's a genuine question.
I don't know how to tell peoplelike I actually trust him, he's
a better out, like.
Whatever you think you'reblaming him, it's not him.
(33:37):
But how we're supposed to tellthem or to show them, or to
prove to them that God is aperson to believe in?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I don't think it's my job to convince people to
believe in God.
I think it's my job to manifestGod's presence in my life.
So by going through what I gothrough my resilience, my
persistence, the way that I justtrust in God, by seeing me
trust in God, people will cometo believe eventually.
(34:10):
And by seeing me succeed whilejust trusting in God, I believe
that people can come to believein God as well.
So I don't think it's my placeto just try to convince people
like you need to believe in God.
But I think someone whogenuinely wants to know if there
(34:33):
is God is going to ask for it.
He's going to ask for God tomanifest himself.
This is what really happened inmost of the stories that we
hear, right.
So someone is asking God if youactually exist, please manifest
yourself.
And when that happens, thesepeople are going to see him
through different things.
It could be through literally akid walking around or through
(34:54):
something really intense thathappens in their lives.
So 100%.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I'm with you 100%.
It is beautiful to sometimesread those stories or actually
watch those stories or actuallysee them in real life, where a
whole life changes because youhaven't done it.
You haven't done it just by thegrace of God.
He completed what you weredoing and it just enlightened
(35:23):
someone around you and it justblessed them for a moment to
realize that and to just becurious.
And just a beginning, because Iremember I had to like I had a
moment of where I justcompletely stopped believing
because I was.
I had enough of what people orthe community had to say around
(35:46):
me that I was like there'ssomething wrong in what this is
or what Christianity is, andthis is unfortunately some path
that we push people to.
And from there I had to gothrough a pain detour for me to
understand that my only place isin that noise, where I had to
(36:08):
go through that noise and tolive with that noise but yet
struggle in that noise andbecome better.
I feel I want to say somethingto those people that are making
the noise and with all love, asmuch as they have love, I also
do have love with them.
I just wish that I had people.
(36:33):
I had people.
No, sorry, I had amazing peoplein my journey where they were
here to support me, to talk tome, and the darkest like no one
knows about that but the biggestpeople that pushed me away were
the biggest noise that pushedpeople around them.
(36:54):
I'm just telling them like foryour own sake, like not stop,
but like watch out for yourself.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, and it starts with you and me.
I think it's important for usto be the example of what we
want others to do and to reallythat's one thing that I try to
tell myself all the time is bethe good friend that you want
people to have.
It's not try to go find thebest friends, it's try to be the
best friend that you can be forothers, so the one that's going
(37:25):
to actually support them andnot lead them astray, you know,
the one that's going to helpbring them up and not put them
down by asking them all kinds ofquestions and making them feel
bad about their lives andstruggle more.
So I think that's veryimportant.
Can I say one thing that I justwanted to mention, for Of
(37:48):
course.
So one thing that can help mefind success in life every
single day is to just say justlike Isaac said.
So then Isaac said oh Lord, godof my master Abraham, please
give me success this day andshow kindness to my master
Abraham, right?
So this is what Isaac said.
(38:09):
I know in his context it was tofind his wife, but that's such
a powerful verse to just sayevery single morning.
If I just start every dayasking God to please give me
success this day, wow, we willsee wonders.
Honestly, okay, because it'ssuccess on all levels.
(38:30):
I can ask God for success atall levels, whether it be in
relationships, in work or justin general, to be a good person
and to again to do God's work sothat they may see our good
works and glorify his name.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
And that's why I noted a few small list of four
or five things to do or tofollow that it could help you at
least find your way throughoutthe noise.
So don't follow, binding withRomans 12 to that we mentioned
so, and do not be confirmed intothis world and be transformed
(39:09):
by the renewing of your mindthat you may prove that what is
that good and acceptable andperfect will of God?
Then, to have mercy and to knowjustice, to just, you know,
have mercy.
We all remember, because theonly I'm sad to say that, but
only time that I really feel theword mercy or the word have
(39:30):
mercy is in liturgy and it justafter that, it just, it's only
justice.
I want what's right for me, sowe take upon ourselves to make
everything just and justiceaccording to what I think is
justice, not what what is betterfrom my solution, regardless of
the other, but this verse wasbeautiful.
(39:52):
He has shown you, oh man, whatis good and what does the Lord
require of you, but to do justjustly, to love mercy and to
walk humbly with your God.
That's Makai 6, 8, beautiful,beautiful verse.
I was really shocked when hesaid, oh man, but like you
socked me, efficient 5, 8 withlive in God's light, for you
(40:18):
were once darkness and now youare light and the Lord walk as
children of light.
And it's just beautiful, for,like you know, for any other
thoughts or temptation or issues, we're going through just to
help each other and to just be asupport.
(40:38):
And that's why the other onethat I'm just going to mention
is beautiful, and that's firstCorinthians 10, 31.
Therefore, whether you eat ordrink or whatever you do, do all
to the glory of God, and it'sit's, it's a beautiful,
(40:59):
beautiful way to end this.
I have a little game for you.
So we know, we know a lot of ofthe Egyptian culture, the
Coptic culture I have, I have,like, I have written a list of
different social norms indifferent countries and I want,
(41:20):
I want to, I want to know do youfeel like it resembles ours, or
is it the complete opposite ordifferent than ours?
Okay, so in France?
In France, it is consideredpolite to kiss acquaintances on
both cheeks when meeting them.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Okay, For us it's probably IAB.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
It's probably for people that we do know or we
don't like.
What is, what is the?
Because France, there's a lotof like.
For them, it's a different like.
There's a whole system of howto meet and to greet.
So what is ours, what is the?
Known unwritten rule aboutgreeting people.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
In Canada or in Egypt , because we're talking about
different things already.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Egyptian in Canada.
How is it Well Egyptians?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
in Egypt, it would probably be by hand.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, handshakes.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Handshakes.
So here it's going to be.
I don't know, depends, dependswhere you go.
Sometimes it's hugs, sometimesit's just saying hi from far,
sometimes it's high, high five.
That's a cool one.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's actually true, because you don't know how the
other person shit is greeting.
So but you're gonna love,because in Germany it is
customary to shake hands witheveryone you meet, both men and
women.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
But it's funny that you're saying it's an actual
polite thing to do, it's astandard for them.
For us it can be the opposite.
It can cause problems if let'ssay you're in a relationship and
the other person sees yougreeting someone in a certain
way or being greeted a certainway, and that could be a problem
.
So I have to make.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It could cause a lot of discussions.
Yeah, I need to talk to you.
Discussions it is customary toin, so in Japan it is customary
to take your shoes off whenentering someone's home.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, I think that's that's normal.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So that's something that resembles ours, our norms,
talent also.
By the way, it is customary toremove their shoes when they're
entering a home and also Funnything is India it is considered
rude to show the soles of yourfeet and to point your feet at
someone else.
There's something thatresembles.
That is Sandals.
(43:32):
Have ever, have ever, been toldto switch?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh yes, your sandals, because they're yes, down, yes,
but I think that's more of athing with like oh the devil or
some superstition, yes, butsomeone told me Turn it upside,
turn it back, because you'reshowing the soul of your, of
your sandals towards God.
And I'm like oh Okay, no, Inever heard that one.
I.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Was like okay you know I telling me that my shoe
is insulting God.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
No, but honestly, I think we do have these standards
as well.
At least you know from Like,for example for me, from my
grandma.
I can't be sitting crossed legs, I can't be sitting, you know
like that.
In front of someone who's older, it's not respectful to be
sitting like that.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
You have to be sitting up straight and you know
so in the in Japan also, theyare known for the slurping while
eating to show Respect and toshow that they loved the food to
the chef.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Okay, how about?
No, you do that for here, herefor us, and it just sounds weird
and rude, like you don't wantto hear that and one of the last
points, actually have two leftand they're funny because I love
them to the end, becausethey're funny one.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
So in Malaysia they point with their thumb.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
For what?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
anything.
They want to bust, they want toknow to point something out if
I want to point to something.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh, instead of going with this one.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, and instead of your, your index, you go with
the thumb.
Interesting and the last one isNicaragua, the actual user
tongue.
The point.
It's good that I cut that piece.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Why would you want to do that?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
but it's there.
It's there, it's their culturalnorms and it's as fun as this.
It's different, but imaginethat it.
Just imagine that in theircountry, for them it's normal
mm-hmm as the point of thissmall mini game and just as much
as we had fun naming differentnorms is to also show, it's to
(45:51):
also tell people that Everyonehas their own way, you know yes
if I'm gonna live it this way orthat way doesn't mean that I'm
doing it wrong, mm-hmm.
We have different standards andit's okay to have and it's okay
if my way to respect the chef isto slurp and to make noise and
To eat the way I'm gonna eatpeople.
Sometimes it's on the floorthat they eat.
(46:12):
Some other people is is on onthe table with Cutlery and it's.
It's a different, you know,mentality but it doesn't mean
that one is less than the other,is just different.
Or, for example, to say inIceland it's considered polite
to say thank you after everymeal Registration.
(46:33):
We do have Sentences.
We say when we're done is tobless the place that they may
more, they have more meals.
So it's there.
Every Culture have their way,but unfortunately also every
culture I'll have their ways topush us of balance.
So, yeah, there's, there is adifference between, you know,
(46:57):
having cultural differences andunderstanding the differences
and Understanding what's rightfor God and what I need to limit
for my cultural background.
Say no, this is a mentalitythat inhibits where that stops
me for doing the right thing orto live my life To the fullest.
Thank you so much, joanna, forcoming today.
(47:19):
I am sorry if I Jumped you withthe weird norms today.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
No, that was so much fun.
Thank you so much for having me.
I really had a pleasure beinghere.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Thank you, guys for listening today the fifth
episode with Joanna.
Hopefully you enjoyed.
Push the like button, share andtell your friends about this
podcast.
Thank you very much and Godbless.
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