#9 - Afro-Latinidad II - The Sandbar

Episode Transcript
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Sandy Paulino (00:09):
welcome back to part two of afro latinidad with
jenny and jennifer.
Uh, we took a short breakbecause the episode ran longer
than usual, so we decided tobreak it up into two separate
episodes.
But, um, yeah, let's get rightinto it.

Jennylee Ramos (00:27):
Yeah, like I'm not doing that like my.
If I come home being like elcasillero, my family's gonna be
like la laca.
You mean, like what are youtalking about?
So like I personally didn't dothat, but for the opposite
reason, because I was like I'mgonna get made fun of if I come
home trying to act bougie.

Interesting.
So I guess for me we kind ofall have different perspectives
on that so I would code switchfor the relationship that I had
with that person.
With my teachers I had aborderline teacher's pet type of
student where I had a very goodrelationship with my teachers,
but in a casual manner,literally just the fact that I

(01:10):
could talk to my teacher as aregular person and that kind of
gave me some leverage in theclassroom.
When I would go to speak to alike a random adult, it would be
very like oh, you know how youdoing my name is sandy like a
job interview type thing youknow, like so that they could
see me in a not this is a littleblack kid that has attitude,
type of way.
And then with my black friendsthere was kind of like this,
this, uh, this stigma.
I guess that you kind of had tobe a little, you got, had to be

(01:31):
a little hood, just so that youdidn't get made fun of or so
that the white kids didn't thinkthat you were white and we all
kind of there was this low-key.
You know, it's just a weirdit's just a weird atmosphere in
general.
So, and then with my whitefriends, I was still myself and
I didn't realize this until Igot out of college, but I spoke
to them in a very proper waybecause that's how they spoke at

(01:54):
home.
But then they would look to meas kind of the language relief
sort of they would try topractice their slang on me, if
that makes sense.

These are microaggressions, yeah yeah,
yeah exactly.

Jennifer Paulino (02:10):
I would just like to say, for those that are
listening, that he put the wordproper in air quotes because
personally I think yes.

I was going to touch on that.

Yeah, there's a really big problem when we say
proper yeah because it's notright or wrong.
Exactly.

So my code switching would be more to the
relationship and not necessarilyto what I was trying to get out
of the person it was more.

I want them, like, sure, I want them to see
me it was more your comfortlevel, but yeah, it's more like
I want them to be comfortabletalking to me and when I would
in spanish.

This is when I kind of had that experience.
In college.
I got that vocabulary where Iwas able to switch from my
campesino you know that's what Iwas used to, that's how I
talked to my mom in a way.
And when I got to college, thevocabulary I didn't necessarily
I wasn't exposed to some highclass, you know Latinos, like
they were, you know, straight upfrom, you know humble

(03:04):
beginnings type of dudes too,Some of them had a little bit
more money but they weren't ahigh class to, for lack of a
better word.
So when I got to DominicanRepublic I was lucky enough to
have some family members thatwere like from the city and city
.
Spanish in Dominican Republicis a lot more proper than
Campesino Spanish, so I kind ofpractice, or so they think.
Yeah, yeah.

(03:24):
But I got to practice with themand I was like oh, como tu esta
, you know, estamos hablando denegocio, estamos hablando de
cosas profesionales, blah blahblah.
And then I get to the campo, I'mlike, hey, que lo?
Que hermano?
What's up, boy you know?
And that way I was able to kindof practice code switching not
only in English but in Spanishtoo, and I've kind of developed
the versatile part of it.

(03:45):
But at the same time I feellike I've sacrificed the you
know, the regular voice that I'mkind of.
I wouldn't say I'm losing, butit's turning into something else
.
And I don't know if that's agood or bad thing.

So do you think and I guess this question
is for both of you do you thinkthat your vocabulary in one area
or another has suffered becauseof code switching?
Because, for example, for me, II took spanish for business in
college and when I took thatclass I learned a lot of words.
But I also was very humbled bymy teacher, because my teacher

(04:21):
told me that I needed topractice my enunciation and the
way that I said words, becauseDominican spoke really poor
Spanish yeah and then my mom, myaunt.
Her mom told me once she told mymom that I was really pretty
until I opened my mouth to speakin Spanish your aunt said that

(04:42):
my aunt's mom your aunt's momyeah, she said that I was really
pretty until I opened my mouthto speak spanish.
So I so my feelings about all ofthis, yeah.
So like I was very humbled inmy language because I knew a lot
of words but because I couldn'tpronounce them in the way that

(05:03):
others wanted to hear them, thatfelt like that was their
dominant, I guess, arena oflanguage.
I felt like I was inadequate,so I felt like I had to stick to
the words that I could properlypronounce and not try to expand
outside of that in English orin.
Spanish and not try to expandoutside of that in English or in

(05:23):
Spanish, because, like, forexample, the other day, I said a
word and you were like oh, youhave to say it like this, you're
saying it wrong.
I will never use that wordagain because I feel like I
can't say it properly.

You're like and that's the end of that, espresso
, espresso.
I keep saying espresso.
You see, all of these thingsmake me so upset, so much so
that I forgot your originalquestion, because all I can
think about is the fact that,like I hate when people police
not only blackness but also likeour language.
Like I think that and it kindof goes back to what you were

(05:55):
mentioning about, like how do Iexplain what I'm trying to say
like it, like our language andhow we speak, isn't related to
our intelligence.

Yeah.

Like, and I think that's the issue Kind of
even how you have to make thenote that, like, when you say
proper, you don't actually meanproper.
It's just kind of how societyviews it, and I think that's the
issue.
Like, I feel that, if anything,it's impressive to be so
versatile and to be able to code, switch and to be able to have
the tools to perform in all ofthose spaces.
I don't need to be 100%.

(06:27):
I don't think any of us need tobe 100% in each one of those
avenues because it doesn'tdictate our intelligence.
Like, I know Dominicans whotalk like que lo que, que lo que
esta pasando, who are verywell-read and well-versed and
are just able to move and likeflow in that space.

I feel like that's more useful too.

I agree.
I think that it's morebeneficial and I can connect
with more people because of that, not in spite of it.
Yeah, and I think that's theissue that people will hear your
tone or hear the words that youuse and automatically make
assumptions about you.
Yeah, and none of that is valid, because you have no idea, just
because you hear me talking inslang, what I actually know and
don't know.

Yeah, the key there, I think, is the ability
to connect with as many peopleas possible, because you you
speak with other people in yourculture, but at the same time
you go on like netflix and youwatch something in spanish.
It's spain, spanish most of thetime and even then I kind of
have been able to find anappreciation for spain spanish
because it sounds kind of weirdto us.
But then when you see them indiscourse with each other, it's

(07:25):
the same exact vibe that wewould have speaking to our own
people.

Just different dialect or a different way.

Exactly, it's just the environment and you
know there's a bunch ofdifferent reasons why language
is the way that it is.

Now I think it's even interesting the fact
that.
So me and you have the same momand dad were raised in the same
environment, but yourvocabulary is a lot larger than
mine.
That's like a school thing,right.
But then again, people willlisten to you speak and they
will automatically assume likespeak in English.
They will automatically assumethat you're probably more

(07:57):
educated than I am because ofthe language, because you use
words like discourse.
But so do you.
Yeah, because you use wordslike discourse.

But so do you?

Yeah, but like even then like people will
listen to me and for the mostpart I use the language that I
feel comfortable with, based onthe environment that I'm in.
But he uses words likediscourse on the regular when
he's talking to the generalpublic.

But all of this is about like, and I know you.
This is all about like what youconsume, like the media that you
consume, the literature thatyou consume and what's around
you, because it has nothing todo with who is more educated or
where you like, right, thatdoesn't matter.
I think it's just like what youget used to hearing and how
people talk around you, becauseif you are around people that
that's a regular like vocabularyword that they use, you're

(08:44):
going to get the hint of that.
But if you're around people whoare like, what the heck is he
talking about?
You're not going to use thosetype of words, like it just
depends on what you're consuming.

To that I would just say if I was in an
environment where you guys atyour workplace, right when you
write an email and when youspeak to people in a meeting, if
I were to hop on that meetingor write that email, they'd be
like yo, who's this, who's thisguy?
Like as far as if I was, if Iwere to, if I were to like
pretend to be you, necessarily,if I was trying to write an

(09:16):
email for you or maybe somehow Iwas able to speak for you, it
would not at all be the vibethat the meeting is having,
because they'd be like oh,because I'm very business casual
when it comes to that kind ofstuff, and she's very customer
service so business professionalyeah yeah, business
professional.

(09:37):
So I think that in that settingthey'd be like oh, this guy
doesn't know how to handlehimself in a meeting, right?
And they'll see my sister andbe like oh you know, she's so
good at speaking in a corporateoffice or in a corporate space
because of what you were sayingearlier, the things that you're
exposed to and what you're usedto, and what you consume on a

(09:57):
regular basis.

You know, what's so interesting about that
is, the structure of emails isreally dictated by the
generation.
So like, for example, me, thatwhen I was learning how to write
emails, it was like when peoplewere like using emails as a
form of like it might as wellhave been a fax like yeah, like
it was, like we.
That little laptop didn't exist.
It was like big, bulky, likefat laptops, and I remember
learning how to write an emailand it was like to whom this may

(10:27):
concern, or dear so-and-so.

It was like you were writing a letter and it was
like best wishes.

And it was just this level of like I guess,
professionalism not even likeonly or just formality, I don't
even know.
Yeah, there was like so when Istarted getting into the
corporate space after collegeand people started in the
workplace sending me emails thatdidn't have a greeting and a
salutation, I was like but Icame from higher ed and that's

(10:59):
how students send emails like.
I was very confused, I like whenpeople didn't say like if you
have questions or concerns,please feel free to reach out.
Or like, should you havequestions?
Like when there were likelittle things that I was taught
were like if you don't put thisin your email, you are not
getting an email back.
When I started seeing people dothat, I was like no, I'm very.

I feel like I got bullied into sending like
very proper emails because whenI was at Temple, I had a job
there, where and this obviouslycomes back to it always comes
back to like who you are andyour race, but I, anything that
I sent out was seen as likeaggressive.
Like I promise you every singleemail that I sent.
Somebody read it, yelling LikeI don't know what it was, no

(11:44):
matter how I formatted, nomatter how many to whom it made
concerns.
I put it in there Like when Isent an email, my supervisor got
a call saying like Jenny issending a very aggressive and
sassy email and I just got soanxious about like the words
that I used and that's why I useso many exclamation points now
and I'm always like thank you somuch, like I'm almost like
thank you so much, like I'm likesuper high-pitched and peppy in

(12:04):
emails because of that, becauseI don't want to be seen as
unprofessional and funny enough.
Another moment where I gotbullied into like trying to be
more professional I was umtrying to get an externship when
I was in my master's program.
Um and this probe I would havegot into this and I was very
qualified, I did very good in myinterview, I would got in, they
would have paid for my entiretuition and I apparently got

(12:26):
denied because I was notprofessional enough.
Like this is like told to meverbatim that I was not
professional enough and theexample that was given to me was
that when I sent the emails outto the people that were
managing the program that I usedonly their first name like to
greet them Instead of like Mr so, mr so and so Mrs so, and so

(12:47):
that I just used their firstname, and that just showed how
unprofessional I was right butif you were in the externship
they'd be like, oh, just call me, just call me Bob.
I'm sure that the person whoended up getting the role didn't
have that and also did find outwho got the job over me.
So that's interesting, but Ijust I don't know.
I feel like that's anotherissue, like trying to build

(13:08):
barriers around professionalism,which in that moment I was
still younger and I was veryfrustrated because I'm just like
, first and foremost, y'allshould be lucky.
I'm out here being this properand this, this proper once again
, and this professional, becausenobody in my family taught me
this yeah, like I, like I didn'tlearn this anyway.
I had to teach myself this.

But see, that then goes back to a level of
what does professionalism mean?
Right Cause we get into thattopic.
And so I've come from thecorporate space and I've come
from the advertising space,which interjects in the
corporate space, and you go intothese environments and, for
example, in a bankingenvironment, you've got the suit

(13:45):
and tie and you've got all ofthis red tape and you've got all
of these chains of commands andyou have all of these
restrictions on the way that youcan approach people, right.
But then you go into theadvertising industry and people
come with jeans to work, butthen again there's still a level
of professionalism and having acultural fit.

Right.

And they have a level of professionalism that
they deem is appropriate and alevel that's inappropriate.
But those lines are so blurredbecause you go to the banking
happy hours, allegedly,allegedly, allegedly, even
though it's a play, but that'snot inappropriate because it's
after work hours.

But also I think that because, as people of
color, we're not in the spacesto establish what's appropriate
and what's inappropriate, that,like we don't have, we're not
privy to that, so it's not up tous, like we're kind of like at
the mercy of whoever decides,it's professional, and when they
decide, it's professional.

Yeah, the thing that I've found interesting,
that's really actually helped methis whole past year.
I've really been exposed to alot of corporate spaces, a lot
of professional people, and theinteresting thing is that
there's this kind of there's asafe space where you can live
when you're talking to somebodyand especially if you're trying

(15:08):
to, if it's a transaction right.
Even if it's a casualconversation sometimes you're
trying to get an opportunity ormaybe they're trying to get an
opportunity there's a safe spacewhere you can be casual but at
the same time, keep aprofessional atmosphere and I
think where, like if you don'tcall them Mr Whatever in your
email, you have to, like youprobably don't want to be in

(15:32):
that space anyways.

No, for sure you learn that now, because it's
like you.

If a company, realistically, is asking you to
be a certain way, it should bethat way within the company.
But most of the time whensomebody is asking you to call
them Mr and Mrs Something, onceyou actually get the opportunity
and you get in there, yourealize that nobody is actually
like that.
And then you're out here likeyou're putting on this facade
and you're trying to be thisthing that you're presenting

(15:58):
yourself as and nobody else isdoing that.
So I think there's kind of youknow, I've gotten a lot of
experience with real people thatare like hey, we're having this
conversation, we're having thisinterview, and obviously we
have to keep a level ofprofessionalism, but at the same
time we're two people having aconversation.
At the end of the day that'swhat it is.

(16:18):
So we kind of, like you said,we're not privy to that vibe
growing up.
So when we get there it's kindof like we either overdo it or
since we're not educated on thesituation, we don't know how to
do it, and I guess getting thatexperience is how we kind of
find the balance.
But there's not a lot of thatgoing around for our category.

Yeah, I wouldn't say there's not a lot
of it going around for acategory.
I would just say there's notenough people that look like us
giving the education to peoplethat look like us.
That's what I mean, Because forexample, the advice that I got
growing up was aboutprofessionalism as it related to
companies that had all of thisred tape and were very like buy

(17:06):
the book.
And then I got into an industrythat was a total opposite of
that and I ended up finding aweird balance in between where I
realized that if I couldn't beaccepted in the way that I came
in, that wasn't an environment Iwanted to be in.
But that took a lot of fallingdown.
That took a lot of me walkinginto spaces, thinking I had to

(17:28):
be a certain way, and thenlooking at people that were
getting paid more than me, whowere doing less than me, who
were acting way lessprofessional than I was, and
realizing that my choices inemployer matter just as much as
their choices in employee.

Oh, absolutely.
But we didn't feel like we hadthat choice.
Like I just don't feel like wefelt like we could make those
decisions, because a lot of thetime we're especially in our
environment.
I don't know if you guys feltthe same with your upbringing,
but like you kind of feel likeanything that you get you have
to be grateful for like that'swhy a lot of times, like we take
the first offer we get, we takethe first job, we do whatever.

(18:05):
Like they ask us to do somethingthat's like outside of our
boundaries, we're gonna goanyways because we could get
fired at any moment and, like,god forbid.
I think it's the same reasonwhy sometimes people that are in
those positions the few of usthat are in those positions
don't always extend the hand ortry to teach or try to give back
because we're like yeah, you'rejust like if I do that, then
who's gonna you gonna come andtake my job?

(18:25):
I don't think so.
So I think there's a lot ofthat and a lot of imposter
syndrome going around, but thatit's kind of that, kind of that,
the poverty mentality of havingenough.

You know you never had anything.
So once you get something, youfeel like you're gonna lose it
right away.
And we spoke about this before,about how our culture, when we
in America we work really hardand in the way I like to say it
is that sometimes we work harderrather than smarter.
Absolutely you know, like, doyou have a lot, of, a lot of
Latinos and Hispanics in theworkforce that could be either

(18:58):
getting paid way more or couldbe doing a lot less for the
money that they're getting.
And simply because we have thatmentality of whatever we get is
what we get, you know, likeI'll accept, like I'll accept
this because I'm doing a job orI'll do this because I'm getting
paid for it, rather thanactually weighing the pros and
cons, comparing it to otherpeople's experiences, we just
kind of accept it as it comes tous, so that, I guess, is kind

(19:22):
of what you're speaking to, andthat way we're just like so used
to counting our blessings thatsometimes we don't take the
opportunities that we could be.

Yeah, and I would say that also goes to like
setting boundaries.
So, like for me, for example,I'm a night owl, so I'm the kind
of person that does a lot of mybest work at night.
Because there's no distractions, there's no interruptions, I
can like fully focus.
Now I realized that over time Iwould be working really late
hours and people expected me toanswer their emails at that late

(19:56):
hour because in their mind,that was not a boundary that
existed.
It's like if I sent Jen anemail at six o'clock, she gonna
answer it.
And I started getting stressedout because I was no longer
working at my best, because thatwas the time that I worked best
.

I was working at a necessary time to suit
somebody else's needs but if youwere to email them at six
o'clock, you wouldn't get aresponse to the next day, right
exactly?

so what I started doing was I started
working at night and I startedscheduling my emails so that
they went out at the times thatwere work hours or right before
work hours.
So I started drafting my emailsat 12 o'clock at night, one in
the morning, but they would bescheduled to send at 7, 30, 12

(20:47):
o'clock at night, one in themorning, but they would be
scheduled to send at 7.30, 8o'clock.
I might still be in bed, Imight be in the way to work.

You don't know what I'm doing.
You don't know what I'm doing.

But you know that I did the work.
The work got done, and the workgot done in the time it needed
to get done, but I worked withinthe parameters that I was
comfortable with and I could domy best work.
Now, granted, that doesn't workfor everything.
There are times that youactually like.
For example, there are timesthat my boss will ask me for
something at 7, 8 o'clock atnight, and I know that it's
important because he needs it,for something that he needs to

(21:20):
turn in, and he just hasn'tgotten the time to come to me.
There is a level of okay, I canset this boundary, and there is
a level of okay, I can set thisboundary and there's a level of
you actually are counting on meright now.
Yeah, so I think that and thatwas a line that I didn't
understand I always thought thatI had to be at everybody's beck
and call if they were above me,because of that fear of like

(21:42):
I'm gonna lose my job.
And then I slowly startedrealizing do you actually need
this or do you just want this?
because it's convenient for youand had to kind of find the line
between there so that I wasbeing effective, but I also
wasn't like not being reliablebut you have to realize that
that like need to like performand need to please, and that

(22:06):
that feeling comes from like uskind of.

How do I explain ?
Like us?
I guess reenacting our parents'experiences.
At least for me it wasdefinitely reenacting my
parents' experiences, like theyhad less opportunities and had
to kind of be at the beck andcall of their situation.
And because that's what you see, even though you have more
resources, even though you'remore skilled and like or more
have more of an educationalbackground, you still act the

(22:31):
same way because that's what yougrew up seeing.
You grew up seeing them havingto do whatever was put in their
plate in order to put food onthe table.
So we kind of like inheritedthat like desperation and that
lack of boundaries from like,from our parents, like, even
though we may have not reallybeen in that situation or had
those restrictions, we still actthe same way, like a lot of us

(22:52):
do.

But you know what's funny is that translates
beyond the workplace thattranslates into relationships,
friendships.
I remember keeping friendsaround and keeping significant
others around um in my life thatI felt like I couldn't do any
better, or that I or like therewas something that I was doing

(23:14):
wrong or I needed to do betterin order for them.
Like it was always, I was theproblem because there was not or
I didn't have enough ofsomething so I just always kind
of like conformed to what wasput in front of me, because that
was all I had, right.
And it goes back to that sameideology of you kind of settle
into what's there because that'swhat's there and our parents

(23:37):
taught us that that's what'sthere, so that's what you're
going to take or you're stickingaround with them just to
complete, because I know that'slike the biggest Dominican
headache of life Cumpliendo withpeople.

No matter what you do, just do it, just do it.

Yeah, like you do it so that people don't say,
so, that people see, so thatlike it doesn't come off this
way, like I'm convinced andhopefully this is not all
Dominicans, but I am convincedthat it's such a thing in our
culture to like live for otherpeople and for other people's
perception of us.

That's why Dominicans stay in jobs for so
long.

This is another point that was touched on before
was the difference of beingDominican in this country and
Dominican in the DominicanRepublic.
Like our sense of communitydoes not work the same in
America.
At all you know, because wedon't have.
There's not the same like laxlifestyle In DR.

(24:30):
You could, you know, the day indr just seems way longer than
in america.
You know, and people that,people that have been in this
country and have been in the bigrepublic can can vouch for this
.
But when you in america youdon't have people asking for
sugar anymore like you don't.
Your neighbor doesn't come upto your door asking for sugar.

Your neighbor doesn't pull up to your crib
because when your neighbor pullsup, you're like yeah exactly,
and nobody ever pulls upunannounced here like oh, for
sure you're sending a calendarinvite or you're sending a text
that I'm doing.

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, yeah, exactly, but
when you go?

when you go to dr , you pull up to someone's crib
and they serve you coffee yeahand low-key.

If you send a calendar invite, they'll
probably be rude yeah, yeah,it's like yeah, and honestly
you're like I have to invite you, like that's offensive, like
why would I need to do all that?

we cool, we family also and to that point,
ndr, when you set an appointmentwith somebody, if you don't
show up, there is not this likehere, it doesn't matter, yeah
something came up yeah, like ifyou, if jenny said to you today
like, oh, I can't make it today,you probably would have low-key
felt a type of way, even if,like, something happened on the

(25:33):
road and she just couldn't.
You would have felt a type ofway in dr would have been like,
ah, yo lo veo en la sirena yeah,I'll see him around sometime,
like there's just this level oflike there's no accountability
for not showing up some, whichis also sometimes kind of
problematic.
It was like we, if you hadn'tshowed up, it was like okay,

(25:53):
like kind of felt that waybecause I kind of had this day
planned, but like there was nolike, why are you?

late yeah and there was definitely some coffee
here yeah, yeah, there has tobe, but you know.

But when we were having the meeting about this,
you mentioned that people fromour culture are always asking
for a favor without thatcompensation, like the free
favor.

Because, again.

It works in Dominican Republic because
you're always seeing each other,so it's always going to be
compensated.
It's always going to be repaid,even if it's unintentionally.
But here you go.
You can go so long withoutseeing somebody that lives right
next to you.

So that favor becomes a little more, a little
less convenient and it becomes alittle more selfish yeah, but
also like I feel that in the, indominican republic or a lot of
countries like that, it's waymore of a community vibe.
Like I'm not doing you a favorbecause you need a favor.
I'm doing you a favor becauseone day you're going to look out
for me.
You know I'm doing you a favorbecause I look out for your kid,

(26:57):
you look out for my kid whenI'm not around, like you looking
at my house you making surenobody's coming.
You going to let me know ifsomething happens in the block,
like it's that kind of feel andthat's okay, whereas, like here,
it's very individualistic, likethat's not the case at all.
Like if I'm doing you a favor,what's my return?
When am I getting that back?
Like no for real it's a lotdifferent.
Like, anything that I'm doingfor you seems like something I'm

(27:18):
taking away from me here.
I feel like that's definitelythe American kind of mindset.
It's very like give and takeand very transactional.
And I think that it becomesproblematic when, like, we try
to mix those words, like thoseworlds excuse me and we're kind
of like I want to have, likebeing community, but I don't
want to get taken advantage ofand I want to give but like it's

(27:38):
just, it's just not the sameconcept and you don't know how
to approach it.
Like it's kind of like when youdon't know whether to give
somebody a hug or a handshake ora kiss on the cheek.

I think it's that mix of cultures in America
which is a good and a bad thing.
So, you have these kind ofweird moments where you don't
know what you should be doing.
And then there's some timeswhere you kind of both agree on
something but at the same timewe run into that problem of
community, where people want tobe a community but since we're
in this environment of give andtake, and you know what do I get

(28:07):
for that, you know, quid proquo, it's kind of it's hard to
gauge that because there's notone definitional way to do it.

No, absolutely.

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(29:20):
show as well.
Now let's get back into it.

I think, for to that specific point, there's
a level of just awareness thatyou have to have also in your
environment, because I thinkthere are times where people
give and like, for example, me,I'm a very like, give, give,
give kind of person and at somepoint in time I had to realize

(29:45):
you can't always give withoutexpecting to receive at some
point, and I think here inAmerica that balance of always
giving and wanting to receivebecame almost like a
foundational piece of giving,versus in DR it was you just

(30:10):
give.

Yeah, something don't come back.
Yeah, like something won't comeback.

That's what my mom says.
My mom is always like you haveto be like that with people
because of the universe.
Like God is going to repay itno matter what.
Like you don't have to worryabout them doing something for
you.
Like God will handle it Right.

And it was like I think it for you, like
god will handle it, like right,yeah, and it was like, I think,
for me being dominican andfeeling like I could just give,
give, give, give, give was cool,but it wasn't until right until
it wasn't, because the culturehere is not like that and the
people that are here that areraised in an american
environment are very much likeoh, you're gonna keep giving to
me and I don't have to doanything.

(30:45):
Well like well, I'm just gonnakeep reeling that in right,
which is what we run into in theprofessional space, where
latinos who are used to i'majust give and give and give,
never expecting anything back,because the universe get right.
You get burnt out and that'sthe.
That's the reality of the humannature is you can give as much

(31:07):
as you want, but yourperspective and your mentality
has to be healthy to be able todo that and not feel that
burnout in a culture thatexpects that give and take.

I think you should be able to give whatever
you can without giving awayyourself.
You know, if you have thecapacity to give in a manner
that is not detrimental to yourown situation, then go ahead.
You know but.
If you get into that give, give, give until you know you have

(31:43):
nothing.

Then you know that's not but I feel like, like
, as Dominican Americans, we'rethe only ones that have like the
privilege of thinking aboutthat or trying to like find that
balance.
Because I feel like forDominicans, or at least in my
experience, it's just alifestyle, Like it's not even
like I have to find the balanceto see what works.
Like my boyfriend's mom Godbless her heart, she is such a

(32:05):
giving person.
And I friend's mom god blessher heart, she is such a giving
person and I sometimes feelguilty.
I'm like, yeah, am I rude?
Like do I have a problem?
Because, like, if I go and takeher something she's like, but I
have to give to everybody else,like if I go and bring her
anything she's like, I need tomake sure that I put some aside
to take to my cousin, to take tomy brother tomorrow, like with
anything, like if they'restanding.
They were standing on the linethe other day and I was like
like, oh, I should go and takethem the hot hands or whatever

(32:27):
it's called, the things thatkeep them warm, and some hot
chocolate.
She would want to give that toeverybody on the line.
She would be like did you bringfor everyone else that's here
with us today?
And I think that's so sweet.
But I'm just like I see youdoing that and obviously as a
Dominican American, when I seethat, I'm like girl, why would
we do that?
Like those people do not care,like those people are not
thinking about you.
Like that, if they got that inthe back, they're not gonna

(32:48):
bring it to you, but she doesn't, even she doesn't consider that
and she doesn't care.
Like she's just.
Like that means nothing to me,whether they want to or not.
Like I'm right with the world,like I'm gonna do that.

And I was gonna say there's a level of
religion to that too, becausedominicans are very religious by
culture, not even by likespirituality, but but by culture
.
Because even in the Bible andlike in Catholicism,
christianity, judaism, you giveeverything you got, even if
you're left with nothing at theend of the day, because God is

(33:17):
going to bless you in thatreligious sense.
That Dominicans come to thiscountry and if one of them comes
to this country and lives in aone-bedroom apartment, their 25
cousins that come after themwill live in that apartment
until they've been able to geton their feet and they will
split that one slice of breaduntil everybody's got in their

(33:41):
little car and let me tell youyou're going to have to complete
with those people.

for the rest, of your life.
Because, no, my dad is like that.
My dad is like there's peoplethat he has experienced those
type of things with, that he'slike I can never say no to them.
If they ask me for anything, Ihave to say yes because we've
experienced that together.
And I just think that's sointeresting, because we have
that need and that culture tohave to like always, I don't
know like look out for eachother, be generous, which is

(34:04):
great and fantastic, but doesn'ttranslate here the same yeah,
that was going to be.

My point earlier is that we have, as in, of
course, there's so manydifferent cultures and things
that probably can resonate withthis it's very what's best for
the group what's best?
For the community and that isthat kind of you know give.
Just give to your neighbor andeventually somebody is going to
bring it around and give it toyou.
And the Western culture is verydo your be on your your own.

(34:34):
you know stuff, get yours andget out of there and you can you
know it's not necessarily agood or bad thing either way,
but when you try to do too muchof one thing, especially when
you try to have that communalvibe in a very individual,
individualistic setting, itdoesn't work.

The same thing would happen vice versa if you
try to be extremely individualin a very communal setting,
you're gonna not do very well inthat atmosphere do you think
that has something and this isjust a weird thought that just
dawned on me and you wouldprobably have to do a lot of
research to like really figureit out but do you think it has
to do with colonialism?
Because if you look atcolonialism and look at the

(35:16):
different countries, theencyclopedia, over here.
No, like okay.
So think about, like theCaribbean islands, a lot of the
latino, like latin america, andthe way that we view community
versus the united states andcanada, which is very um
individualized.
And so when you think about thelatinx and caribbean countries,

(35:38):
you think about the way thatthey were founded.
Yes, they were colonized, but alot of the people that have
like inhabit those spaces arepeople of African descent, are
people of indigenous descent,are people that were founded in
communities that were built onlike we got to stick together.

They lived off each other.
Yeah, we got to stick togetherin order to survive.
To survive, yeah Right.

They came in and they were like we came to
escape those people that weretrying to oppress us, and if
y'all get in our way, y'allgetting your head cut off.

Yeah, they came in and they were like we came to
escape those people that weretrying to oppress us, and if
y'all get in our way, y'allgetting your head cut off yeah,
follow the plan and keep yourhead down, yeah and it was it's
kind of survive where you canfor them for for I guess, the
community more of the communitysetting and survive where you
are, yeah, and then thecolonialism is more go where you
can absolutely yeah when youget there like they work so hard

(36:26):
because you got to see it fromtheir perspective.
When you work so hard to getaway from whatever you're
running from wherever you golike sorry.

You're trying to do your thing?
Yeah, because if you, thinkabout like.
No, but that makes a lot ofsense.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, Like.

Think about the settlements.
They colonized the east right,the east coast, and then, as
they moved west, it was likethey were taking what they could
take and they didn't reallycare what what it cost them.

They were like what I know is that I'm not, but
even to rebuttal that when you,if you're, if we're talking
america specifically, thefurther west you go, kind of
like the less they care yeah,you know, I think you got those
colonizers at the end of theline.
They were like you know, Iguess you know like these people
are like whatever works,they're going hard over here.

But also think about the further west you go,
who that land used to belong to.

That's true, yeah .

Okay.
Like the people that were there.
It was like that wasn't a we'regoing to take this by blood.
It was kind of like we caneither take it by blood or y'all
could just like be part of usand like give it to us and we
give you a little, somethingwe're gonna exploit.

And there was less people too, like as as we
moved west, there was lesspeople moving west, right it's
interesting because I just feellike, as dominican americans are
just like latinx, like we areintertwined in all of this, like
all of it is just based, likeour entire route is just based
off intersectionality and wehave we get to see a little bit
of it all and experience alittle bit of it all, and like

(37:55):
it's kind of like we weretalking about when we went to
school, like we don't fit in inany of those boxes, like we're
not super generous, we're notsuper individualistic, like we
don't know, and I feel like ineither one of those spaces I
don't know if you guys have thisand this is a different topic.
I apologize, but I don't know ifyou guys have this at home
where I personally feel like Idon't give enough.
I know my parents came and ifmy dad is making $10, he's

(38:17):
sending $5 to my grandma, nomatter what it has to.
He has to send a percentageover there.
And my family in the DominicanRepublic is like, like you
working, send some money and I'mjust like I don't have that
custom in America.
People usually like set theirkids up and then the kid just
does their thing and worriesabout and worries about becoming

(38:39):
, you know, financially free andthen like later, I got you, but
like right now I can't reallygive you half of what I got.
It's not enough.
But they don't think that waybecause they're like no, no, no,
like here you have to Like.
That's the expectation.
So even if I do send like or Itry to like give a little bit
here and there, it's not thesame as like what my parents are

(38:59):
doing.
It's not the same at all.

so I don't know if you guys have that experience
.
My mom literally she she's oneof six kids, I think, and she
has all brothers.
She was not only she's theyoungest, but she's also the
only girl.
She grew up taking care of allof them, basically, though.
So now that she's in, she's theone that ended up in the better
position.
She's still doing the samething they have.
Obviously they're they'reindividuals.

(39:23):
Some of them do their thing,some of them are a little more
dependent, but at the end of theday, no matter what anyone's
position is, she's always theone giving to them.
That's exactly the role that myparents play, my dad, my dad is
the one that kind of got out thetrenches too.
Even though his, his siblingsare not all they're not, they're
like in pretty good situations,he's the one that's usually

(39:51):
giving a little bit more,because he's in the better
position.
So it's kind of you know ifwe're going to make this
political it's kind of like asocialism that's built into the
family dynamic.
Absolutely, the person that'sdoing the best is also giving
the most but yes, even and it'sexpected to.

It's not because it's from their hearts, because
they have to complete, yeah,but you know what's?

funny is even then, if you look at my parents,
my mom's family is very muchlike traditional Dominican and
my dad's family has been in thiscountry for so long that
they're very American in theirway of thinking.
They're very muchindividualized because they've
set their own foundations, likethey're really like it's about
me first, and then I got y'all,but then again with them they

(40:27):
came to this country to do that,to do that so it's like they
didn't like.
I also think it's how you cometo the country, too, and the way
that you establish because,like they are very much like I'm
gonna set me up and then I goty'all.
But they're like that witheverything, including their kids
kids Versus my dad, for example.
Like when we got into thisapartment, I was like I told my

(40:50):
dad that I was looking to rent aplace and I was like I don't
have the full, like three monthsof rent that I need to give as
a deposit.
He was like how much is it?
I'll front you, you pay me backlater.
Now taking a loan for my dad isvery much like I got you when
you retire and I gotta take careof you.

Like that's just .
I'ma keep that, Don't worry,Like I got you later yeah.

Like that's just how me and my dad work.
Like our financial, ourfinancial relationship is very
much based on I'm going to setyou up.
You're very much independentand I'm going to set you up to
continue to be independent,because I know that once you're
independent, the rest is gonnafollow.

But you gotta think about the fact that he's
probably doing that for the samereason my dad, because I have a
similar issue with my dad andit's because that was not the
case for him.
So he's like I'm trying to dosomething a little different
because my dad was sent here tohelp everybody else, like they
were.
Like you go over there and youmake money and you send it back.
Thanks.

That was his sole purpose.

That was the expectation from the beginning.
So I'm sure our parents arelike alright, I have to do this,
but I want y'all to worry aboutyour own thing, Like daddy my
dad jokes about it.
But even though they do that, Istill feel the pressure to have
to give back.

I pay my dad back.

We can't be that disconnected.

Yeah, like I pay him back and like sometimes
he'll call me and he'll be likehey, I ain't got no money in my
account so what you got?
And I'm like this is what I got,dad, like this is all I got.
We gonna have to make this workand other times living here, I

(42:28):
pay all the bills but like Ialways send him a little extra
to pay the mortgage because I'mlike you know, I owe you a lot
like there's no amount in theamount of money in the world
that is going to pay for what myparents have done.
Even even if my dad were totake all of the money that he's
ever owed, like bar let meborrow and then discounted the
money that I've let him borrow,that still wouldn't amount to

(42:50):
the debt that I have because ofthe type of parents that we have
.
When you have parents that arewilling to put your needs first
and make sure that your futureis set, there's no amount of
money that can pay for that.

I agree.
Do you feel like that's thereason why we're all as
motivated?

as we are, yeah.

Because I feel like I'm just like I can't let
all this.
My mom came into YOLA like I'mnot letting that go to waste.

Yeah yeah, Because they also had like those
little microaggressions growingup where they were.
Like you know, I'm not payingfor nothing, you know I'm not
True.

Oh, absolutely.

When I was getting into certain endeavors
and my dad would have to pay,he'd be like I.
Better see something.

Yeah, that poor little violin Yo every time
my dad sees that violin.
It's sitting over there in thecorner.
I brought it here because everytime he would say it, he would
look at it, he would make acomment about how much money he
spent on that violin and how Inever became like the next.

Listen.
You see, that is actually thereason why I didn't even have
any hobbies growing up, becauseI tried to play basketball and
my dad was like you better notmess up these sneakers and my
money If you're not going tobecome a part of the WNBA.
And I was like no, I'm good offthat, like I'm not even going
to waste your bread.

Ah, you know what ?
I don't even like basketballbasketball exactly like he was.

Like I'm not.
I can't bring you here everyday and invest if you're not
about to be the greatest and Iwas like you know what's funny
is do you think that translatesto you?

and I said do you know that's funny a lot of
times in this conversation, butdo you think that translates to
your?
Because, like we were talkingabout this, earlier how we only
do things that we know we'regood at, absolutely, and like we
stray, stray away from thethings that we know we're not
the greatest, we may try it, butif we're not the greatest,
we're like ah.

Yes, because opportunity cost hurts me.

Yeah.

Hurts me bad Because that's how I grew up.
My dad was like yo, you don'thave time to waste.
Not time, not money.
Money is time.
You have to make sure thatwhatever you're doing like
there's going to be a returnLike, and that's, I think, why
it's hard for me to even have ahobby, that it's just something
that I enjoy.
And I think a lot of people,like a lot of millennials
especially, are like what is ahobby?
Because, like I started duringduring quarantine, I started

(44:56):
like trying to like writeletters and like do little
stamps going to make a negocio?
Like, you're going to make thata business?
Like, how are we?
going to monetize this littleactivity you got going on and
I'm like I cannot just dosomething without being like how
can I make this as effectiveand as like, as like profitable
as possible?
And I just think that that isthe mindset with everything that

(45:18):
we do, that our parents arelike how are you going to like
flip that?

See, I think my experience is actually a little
different from that, actually,because this also goes back to
the relationship I had with myteachers.
I would have that personalrelationship in the classroom
where, even if I didn't get that, they obviously had higher
expectations, since they showedthat personal side with me.
Just like my parents, like whenyou invest in something, you
want to see the output.

(45:46):
But I was a very figure out howto do it if you can't do it one
way.
So if I had a good relationshipwith my teacher and I didn't
get a good score on my test, thenext assignment would be fire,
or my paper would be fire, justlike with my parents.
If I didn't come home inbaseball, if I had a bad game in

(46:07):
baseball with my dad, I wouldgo super hard at practice the
next day.
So it was kind of I had to findan alternative to whatever I
fell short in and because ofthat I was able to really find
the.
I guess the difference betweenour situations is that I don't
feel that opportunity costspressure, because I feel like

(46:28):
I'm going to get it back anotherway.

That's interesting and I wonder if,
like being like the oldest hasanything to do with that.
Like I'm thinking about thatbecause I don't feel that way at
all.
Like I feel like I like I lovepsychology in high school, like
I was obsessed, I honestlywanted to double major and like
do psychology in college and Itook an AP psychology course and
I thought I was doing great andI definitely failed.

(46:51):
I definitely did not pass theAP test and I was done.
There was no Anytime that Ifailed at something I was like
I'm good off that next.
It wasn't like, oh, I'm goingto try on the next one really
hard.

It was like that's not my thing, we gotta.
We don't have time to try toperfect this if I'm not
naturally good at this.

We gotta move on to the next thing on the list.
Yeah, ap's a setup, but no, Iwas done like I.
There was a lot of things in mylife that were like that same
thing, like with basketball,same thing with anything that I
picked up.

I was like volleyball I tried a lot of
things and I was if I wasn'tgood yo, that's it.

I was like I'm good off this like you know,
what's so interesting is I had aweird in-between experience
where, like, I very much onlytried things that I knew I was
good at, but like the problemwas that if I tried something
and I failed, I had to prove toyou that I could do it.
So like if, god forbid, I didsomething that I thought I could
succeed at and I failed, therethere was no turning back.

(47:45):
I was going to do it intobecause.
So this goes back to a bikestory.
I always tell this story.
My dad bought me a bike and ithad training wheels and I rode
it with training wheels and thenall of my other friends on the
block got their training wheelstaken off and I really wanted my
training wheels off.
And and my dad was like I don'tthink that you're ready.

(48:07):
Like he kept telling me likethose are the magic words, god
forbid, yeah.
Like he kept trying to tell methat, like I didn't have enough
practice on the bike and Ireally wanted the training
wheels off my bike.
Eventually he took the trainingwheels off my bike.
Didn't take a lot of convincing.
He was like, ah, tu quieres, tuquieres seguir, tu vas correr.
Convincing, he was there, ah.
So he taught me a little bit andthen I fell off my bike and he

(48:32):
told me that I could not go backinside until I learned how to
ride my bike.
You best believe, I learned howto ride that bike because I
wanted him to put the trainingballs back on.
He was like that's not how thatworks I never heard that you
ever heard this story?
I tell the story all the time,um, and so that is how I learned
.
Actually, there is a picture ofdaddy sitting reading a book
and you on mommy's lap and I wassitting in front of the house

(48:55):
where this happened.
We used to live on a militarybase and I remember, I believe,
the kids it was a little kidnext door, it was like a little
white boy.
Um, I remember why this storyvery vividly, because he told me
that it built this is like myfirst it builds character lesson
for my dad, um, and he was likeno, you're gonna learn.
And I learned, I learned how toride the bike.

(49:15):
And after that it was like ifyou're gonna try something,
you're gonna put in your fulleffort, and if you putting in
all you got still fails, thenit's just not for you, but like
at least you learned somethingthat's interesting.

I don't know.
I just feel like I grew up withlike a natural finesse.
And if I couldn't naturallyfinesse?

it.

I was like it's not for me Like and I feel like
my defense mechanism, like Iwould have that energy for
something I really wanted tolearn, but not because, like
people told me, that I couldn'tlike, my defense mechanism leads
me to be like and I don't care,so now what?

I'm also from the Bronx so I was just very
aggressive.

See, I was aggressive in the opposite way.

I wanted to prove to you that I could.
If you told me I couldn't, I'dbe like oh word Bet.

That, you see, is the difference.
I feel like.
For me it came from when youknow, when you're little and
people make fun of you andthey're like tell them that you
don't care and the bullies ain'tgonna feel stupid.
That was my approach toeverything.

No, but that's like a Bronx thing too, though.
So that's now.
That's like physically whereyou grew up?

Yeah, a lot of my cousins.
So what's up like I don'tmatter anymore.
You know, I wasn't even tryingto do that, exactly that's not
even that wasn't even the goalanyway.
So what are you talking about?
That's actually my approach tolife.

It's funny because it's very much like oh,
you want me to climb a tree, butI'm a fish, so what?

like no, yeah, no, I and I'm I'm very forward
about that, like I just if I'mgood at it, naturally I'm all
for it.
I'm extra competitive, like Imentioned, like I'll go hard,
but if it's just not my thing,I'm like we're not going to talk
about that today.

Next, yeah, I guess for me that attributes to
when I was younger.
I was never not that I wasnever naturally good at anything
, but I didn't know what I wasnaturally good at.
Okay, because the only thing Iwas naturally good at that I can
remember is playing with toysand baseball.

Which is still playing with toys.

Yeah, it's just playing.
So physically playing was theonly thing that I consciously
knew that I was good at.
So then, when it came to otherthings, I had to figure out how
to do it, because for me, for mysister, I got more of the it
builds character thing and forme, I got more of the figure out
how to do it.
You know you got to completethis task in whatever way you

(51:37):
can complete it.
So when I came across otherhobbies or other like I got
really good at skipping rocks atone age Because I was with a
group of friends.
Really good at skipping rocksat one age because I really I
was in, I was with a group offriends and we were skipping
rocks yeah, no, yeah, somewheredifferent.

I'm like what rocks was I skipping?
Anywhere near new york citylike there was this, and what
pond was I doing that?

but anyways, I was with a group of people and
we were by a body of water andwe were throwing rocks right and
I had never skipped a rock.
I had never in my entire lifeeven knew.
I didn't even know rocks couldwalk on the water like Jesus,
but they were throwing it and Iwas really bad at it.
So I had already gotten intothat mentality of figure it out.

(52:22):
So for the next couple ofmonths I would literally collect
rocks from the ground whereverI was.
If there was a rock that couldbe skipped, I picked it up, I
took it home and then I would goto I was persistent.
Yes, and then, like I would justlook for an opportunity to skip
rocks, I'd be like yo, y'allgoing to the pond.
Oh, like you know, we're going,we're going to some sort of

(52:44):
body of water.
I would bring a bag of rocksand I would skip them joints,
and so I got really good, andthen it didn't matter anymore,
because nobody was skippingrocks.
And this is the reason why Idon't put that much effort into
anything, but that's what I didwith everything.
Yeah, it was just, but that's agood skill, though.

But then one day he's going to come across
some people that want to skiprocks.

And he's going to have that talent in his
pocket.

It does pay off sometimes.

There's some things that I picked up that
I've been able to use, but yeah,yeah, I think that's for me
like one of the things that hasalways kind of got me to that
level of like.
I should really try, becauseeventually I may need this.
Like for example, one of thethings that I have gotten really
good at is remembering reallyunnecessary facts.

I think that's a dad thing, though, because I'm
up there too.

Yeah, like I just know useless information
that one day becomes useful,like I'll be sitting in a
conversation and be like yo.
Did you know?

I did not grow up like that.

Fun fact.
And then people are like wow,how do you know?
I'm like, I genuinely don'tknow where I remember that from.

I get a lot of.
Why do you know that?
Yeah, I get that too.

And then it's funny because I got to question
myself sometimes, Like when Icome out with these fun facts,
because sometimes it's wordvomit and I'll be like wait, is
that true, Did I make that up?
And then I'll go Google and I'mlike no, no, I was right.

It's just nuts.
How much we are like ourparents, no matter what we do,
we end up like literally justbecoming them in another
freaking body, because I feellike I similar, like I also like
, am similar to my dad or in thesame way as him, but he's more
of like a people, person, likeyou know how you're like, I
don't know how you're so socialor how like you're so all over

(54:31):
the place like that's my dad'sthing, like he is like telling
stories, making jokes, all thepizzazz, and like that's what I
do, but girl them facts, I don'tknow about that yeah, but um,
so we're we're pretty far intothis conversation.

Yeah, and we got into it.
We have veered a little bityeah we got it, but I think
we're going to be able to find aconclusion here.
Okay, I just wanted some lastremarks.
You know, for the people, whatis it that you want to leave
them with?
And to remind you, since we gotoff topic, we are talking about
Afro-Latinidad.

(55:05):
You know, off topic, we aretalking about afro latinidad.

you know, black latinidad, just being from our
culture in this environment thatwe call america so, in terms of
what to leave people with, Ithink, on that topic especially,
the most important thing iseducating yourself and going
forward and doing the researchand like learning from other
people and having conversationslike this to see that, even
though we're all like AfroLatino and we're all Dominican

(55:31):
American, we also havecompletely different
perspectives even you two, whogrew up in the same household
completely differentperspectives and I think that if
we move forward and don't makeassumptions about people and
about their experience and theirlevel of education based on
what they look like, what theysound like, we would live in
such a better world, but alsolike we would be no, seriously,

(55:52):
but also we would be able to, Iguess, like just embrace the
beauty of it all and how awesomeit is to be able to speak
multiple languages, to be ableto flex in different
environments and be able to code, switch, to be able to speak
different dialects and switchclass sets and all that kind of
stuff.
Like that is awesome.
And people think that it's adownfall.
Yeah, people think that it'sbad.

(56:13):
People think that if they hearyou speak in spanish, that you
should not because you need tospeak english, as we're in
america, like, don't get mad atus, because we know multiple
languages like.

You know what I mean.

Like that's dope .
And if you want to like, don'tbe upset.
And if you want to learn, let'stalk.
And if you want to like, don'tbe upset.
And if you want to learn, let'stalk about it.
If you want to learn, pick up abook.
Like, pick up a class.
So I think that if we startembracing the differences and
stop trying to like box things,we would just be in such a
better place.
So that's definitely, I think,the most important like
embracing and educating all ofthat.

Yeah, I would say to that point too, is being
open and willing to acceptdifferent perspectives, because
sometimes we are, oh yeah, likeI'm all for diversity, I'm all
for these things, but whensomebody tells you something
that doesn't align with what youhad in your mind, you instantly
box them out or like cancelthem that's a selective hearing,
yeah yeah, like cancel cultureis such a big thing that I it
just does not sit well with me.
I'm all for like if somethingdoesn't sit well with you, you

(57:12):
don't have to engage with it,but you also don't need to
disrespect it.
And I think there's a level ofaccountability that we all have
to have for the hypocrisy thatwe all carry.
We all have to be self aware.
I think that's one of thebiggest pieces is being
self-aware, being willing toopen and accept other
perspectives, not necessarilyagreeing with them we can agree

(57:33):
to disagree but being open andwilling to understand where
somebody else is coming from,advocating for other people and
advocating for yourself, andunderstanding that who you are
is valuable, what you have tosay and what you have to bring

(57:54):
to the table is valuable.
And understand that we mightnot all be sitting at the same
table and that's okay, but westill eating, though Exactly,
absolutely Like we don't allhave to sit at the same table.
Just like in school we had ourindividual desks but we all came
for the same purpose and we allhad our own individual way of

(58:15):
learning.
So if everybody is willing toaccept that they're not going to
align with everybody, there'san easier way to have a
conversation where we'relistening to each other and not
trying to speak at each other.
So I think a really big,important piece about diversity

(58:37):
and just identity in general andhaving a conversation about
identity and, to Jenny's point,educating yourself, is being
willing to humble yourself andknow that your perspective is
not the only acceptableperspective, absolutely that's.

I don't know how to follow that up y'all.
I mean there's a lot to takeout of this, but for me I would
just say know where you comefrom.
You know, a lot of us arereally good at forgetting our
roots, and you know when it'sconvenient.
Of course, and going back toour whole, you know
anti-blackness in the Dominicanculture.

(59:13):
We have to understand wherethat comes from.
You know, rafael Trujillo Imade a video about this during
the Black Lives Matter rallies,like during the heat of it,
about limpiando la raza.
You know, la rubia, la morena yprieto, like that, like those
are some strong words that we'renot on.
We don't really know thedeepness behind what some of
those meanings.
So, yeah, you know just kind ofbefore you get on your high and

(59:37):
mighty chair, before you bringyourself down, because some of
us, you know, forgetting whereyou come from can also mean, you
know, forgetting that platformthat you already have,
forgetting that experience thatis already have, forgetting that
experience that is so valuableto what you bring to the table.
So that goes both ways.
Just kind of check yourselfbefore you wreck yourself, you
know.

Put it in the words of Mufasa remember who you
are.

Sandy Paulino (01:00:02):
All right, Well you know.
Thank you for watching anotherepisode of the Sandbar.
I'm sure a lot of people aregoing to feel strongly about
some of the things we said, soleave a comment.

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#9 - Afro-Latinidad II

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#9 - Afro-Latinidad II