May 30, 2025 • 26 mins
In President Johnson’s final podcast episode as president, he interviewed former Sattler student Lucinda Kinsinger. Luci shares how her love for writing—nurtured by a quiet childhood and a bold leap into blogging—led to the publication of two memoirs and two children’s books. She reflects on her time at Sattler College and the unexpected friendships that shaped her most, especially her relationship with an Ojibwe woman whose story inspired Turtle Heart. Now a stay-at-home mom, Luci speaks candidly about the challenges and joys of balancing motherhood with creativity, offering a moving testament to pursuing one’s calling, embracing each season, and forming deep connections across cultural lines.
Learn more about Sattler College: https://www.sattler.edu.
Mentioned in this episode:
Anything but Simple - Luci's memoir about growing up as a Mennonite
Turtle Heart - Luci's memoir about an unlikely friendship that changed her life
Christian Light Publications - website where Luci's childrens' books are sold
https://lucindajkinsinger.com/ - Luci's Personal Blog
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction to Luci Kinsinger
2:13 Luci's Writing Journey and Passion
5:38 Balancing Writing with Motherhood
9:54 Embracing Singleness Before Marriage
11:28 Impactful Friendships Across Cultures
21:27 Luci's Books and Creative Works
23:21 Developing Unlikely Friendships
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zack Johnson (00:02):
It is May 8th.
It's still May 8th, 2025.
And I'm here with LuciKinsinger, who actually was one
of Sattler's inaugural students.
Can you remember, Can youbelieve it's been like how long
has it been, Luci?
Luci Kinsinger (00:20):
Well, we've.
You know, we had our 50 yearanniversary, so it must have
been like six years.
Zack Johnson (00:27):
That's right, that sounds about right, but I think
Luci came to August in 2018,the fall of 2018, and spent two
semesters here.
And then, luci, where are youright now?
Luci Kinsinger (00:39):
I'm in Oakland, Maryland.
It's like the little triangleon the very end of Maryland's
tale.
Zack Johnson (00:46):
Well, first of all I'd love to hear about maybe
rewinding a little bit when wereyou at when you decided to
spend that year at Sattler andthen how did things unfold in
your life?
And maybe just try to catch meup so I know sort of a timeline.
And maybe just try to catch meup so I know sort of a timeline,
and usually I love to askpeople their general stories so
(01:08):
that people know who you arebefore you came to Sattler and
those kinds of things.
Luci Kinsinger (01:16):
But I'd love to love to be filled in.
So before I came to Sattler Iwas really just kind of hungry
for some higher education.
I always loved school and whenI saw Sattler it kind of just
hit something in me like thissounds really cool Going to this
, going to Boston, interactingwith professors that had been
(01:41):
educated in places like Harvardand that had been educated in
places like Harvard and the,especially the, the kind of
niche worldview, not necessarilyAnabaptist but yet having that
early.
Christian perspective.
Zack Johnson (01:59):
Right, I was like I really, really liked it and
and before.
I think you're still.
Your claim to fame here, atleast in my mind, is you're the
only student that's maybewritten a book before showing up
as a student.
And and I'd love to just talk alittle bit about where did your
(02:22):
, you know, where did youdevelop a habit or a passion to
write and then we can follow upwith at this stage in your life,
how do you fit writing in withall the other things that you're
passionate about, and I'm sureyour life has changed since you
were here in Boston with that.
Luci Kinsinger (02:40):
Yeah, it's changed a lot.
I've always loved.
When I was a little girl, Iloved reading.
I would just, I spent my wholechildhood just reading, reading,
reading, and you know, I guessit's kind of a natural.
I was a shy person and so Iwould.
I would vent by writing and Ilearned to love writing on that
way.
And then I started, I started ablog and it was very scary,
(03:04):
publishing my first blog postand having people, actual people
, read what you wrote.
You know that was so terrifying.
But then it was also reallythrilling when you got good
feedback.
You know, people read this andthey're like I really like it,
and so it was kind ofintoxicating, I guess, and just,
it was a way that I could.
I still feel that way that Ican express myself.
(03:25):
Maybe parts of myself that Iwould not probably verbalize, I
can express through writing, andso I just it's just part of me,
um, a creative part and anexpressive part, that that is my
art, I guess all right.
Zack Johnson (03:41):
So since, since, uh, marrying and children, how
do you fit writing and how doyou keep that alive as a passion
at this stage?
And being a?
I think you're, I think I sawthat you wrote yours you can say
you're a stay at home mom.
I always, I always joke with mywife about better titles or
(04:02):
alternative titles, but it's avery important, one of the most
important roles, so how do youfit it in now?
Luci Kinsinger (04:08):
So I fit it in where and when I can.
Sometimes it's when I can'tsleep at night, sometimes it's
in the early morning, sometimesit's over nap time, sometimes
it's with a child on my lap,just here and there.
And it's really hard now tofind that quality time, that
time where you can just focusand zone out.
And I think the very best timethat I actually get that is when
(04:31):
Ivan has the children, for youknow, maybe he's working outside
or something and they're withdaddy and then I.
That's the then.
I love it.
I come out of those times sohappy because I actually got
some some writing time, somereal writing time, where you're
in a different world of your own.
Zack Johnson (04:49):
I'll make sure to.
I'll make sure to send this,the recording to him, so he
knows that.
I'm sure he knows that.
Um, and then even I actuallythink this Luci this is actually
we actually make internal jokeshere that we have a strange
retention rate, because more ofthe women who come here do end
up getting married, maybe midwaythrough their college career,
(05:12):
maybe not midway, and theythought they wanted a degree,
but then somebody comes alongand asks them to date, and then
dating leads to all the thingsthat dating leads to marriage
them to date, and then datingleads to all the things that
dating leads to marriage.
So how do you fit?
I know you've probably thoughtabout how do you square away
(05:36):
those seemingly two dreams thatseem at odds with each other, or
maybe not?
How do you square the educationwith motherhood?
And where did all those dreamsfit in?
Do you have anything to say toother young women who are in
your shoes and have similarpassions?
Luci Kinsinger (05:52):
I guess it's going to be different for
different people, like what yourpriorities are.
Writing is really important tome and even though I feel like I
don't really get the qualitythat I used to or the time, I do
still try to do it a little bithere and there and just keep it
up.
You know, I know there willcome a time when I have more
time for it, but I think andI've heard this from more than
(06:16):
one people, and it's what Iembrace, try to embrace, and I
know that you know, this is howit is for a lot of women who
love their families and lovetheir children.
You know, you're not going toget those years back when your
children are little, whenthey're tiny.
You know, yeah, those, thoseyears are so precious and I do
(06:37):
realize that and and I reallylove, you know, being a mom to
my children and it's okay that Ican't write the way I used to,
because I'd rather, you know,I'd rather be there for my
children when I can, as much asI can, as much as I know how to
be.
Zack Johnson (06:53):
Yeah, I.
I just wanted to affirm youthat I generally think that any
any given point of time I alsotry to tell women who say I
might, or young women who mightget married, is it even worth
starting a degree If you evensuspect that you might get?
(07:15):
You might start dating and getmarried midway?
Do you have, do you have,anything to say to somebody with
that kind of in the back oftheir mind that they're like is
it even worth starting somethingif I'm going to have to stop at
midway or choose to stop atmidway and feel free to say it's
not worth it if it wasn't worthit for you?
Luci Kinsinger (07:33):
I'm just curious what your thought is on that
well, I mean, if you sit aroundyour whole life waiting to get
married, you might bedisappointed, and then you won't
have a degree or children, andthen you know like I think, it's
totally worth doing what youlove and being happy in it.
Because I was very happy as asingle woman and very fulfilled.
You know I always, you know, Ihad my eyes open, you know, if
(07:54):
God had somebody for me, but Ididn't.
I didn't feel like that's whatit was going to take to fulfill
me and I'm glad it was that way.
I'm glad that I was pursuingthings I loved and I'm glad that
I had a passion and thatdoesn't not everybody just knows
right away what they'repassionate about.
Um, but when I started writingI you know it did a lot for me,
(08:17):
it gave me a lot of courage and,yeah, it just um helped me
really step out of my comfortzone and I'm very glad that I
pursued that and I will continueto pursue my degree as one, or
my dream of writing as one thatI can really take anywhere ask
(08:45):
you a follow-up question here,because I have a lot of
conversations with people whoyou said like really getting the
most out of your singleness andI feel like there's there's a
certain people who the lastthing they want to be a single
and they're like trying to fightagainst it.
Zack Johnson (09:00):
Do you have, do you have, any advice on how to
just suck the marrow out ofsingleness for all it's worth?
I know that that's a hardquestion, but I think that it's
really relevant for people intheir early 20s who are like,
hey, I'm single and I don'treally want to be, but I also
(09:20):
have tons of time andopportunity.
So what would you, what wouldyou say to somebody in that that
sort of life stage?
Luci Kinsinger (09:30):
I mean, everybody's different, and I
pursued what I loved, naturally,and my husband he was single
for a while too and he reallywanted to be married.
I mean he really, you know, buthe just went there with the
right person, didn't come along.
But now he looks back and he'slike, oh, he's glad he got to
(09:52):
travel, because he traveled alot, like he was to every state
in the US, he was to quite a fewdifferent countries, and now we
, you know, try to travel withchildren.
It's really difficult.
Zack Johnson (10:13):
So there are really a lot of opportunities as
a single person that are somuch more complicated.
In some ways, when you'remarried, life changes a lot.
No, I agree, and I won't givemy advice, but I always think
it's really interesting where,as soon as somebody starts
focusing on what they can dowith being single, that's
exactly when they startattracting people to themselves.
It's a really odd.
It's an odd paradox that I'vesort of noticed, where, like, if
(10:36):
all you think about is notbeing single, but anyway, yeah,
I just think I have things tosay on that.
Luci Kinsinger (10:44):
I love being married and I'm so thankful that
God brought Ivan into my life,but like I miss part, there's a
part of me that misses the oldsingle Luci.
Like I don't know, I changed,you just change and it's OK, but
I kind of miss that singleperson.
I don't know.
Zack Johnson (11:06):
I understand what you're saying.
Speaking of missing people, Iknow that I always like to talk
to people about people who haveshaped them and friendships that
have made an impact on faith,and I know that you have a lot
of people in your life that havedone that for you.
(11:26):
Would you mind talking a littlebit about friendships that have
impacted you deeply andstrengthened your faith?
I'm just sort of reading somestuff I had written down to talk
to you about.
Luci Kinsinger (11:40):
Yeah, yeah.
(12:08):
So the friendship that's mostdeeply impacted me was, well, I
actually wrote a memoir,published since I was in college
, called Turtle Heart, an oldershe was like in her 70s Ojibwe
woman, and she was a very uniqueperson.
She came to know God theCreator.
She always called him theCreator.
I mean, she grew up in aCatholic home so she had the
church teaching.
You know, she said the nunsdidn't really teach the Bible.
She went to Catholic school.
The nuns didn't really teachthe Bible but they taught about
(12:28):
the Ten Commandments.
I think that's what she said.
So she had some of that.
You know, maybe not thestrongest Bible background, but
she did have some knowledge.
But she really came to a loveof the Creator, I think, just
through her love of nature andthrough the sense that God gave
her of himself.
Because he does, he has thatconnection with each person that
(12:49):
is open to him and I reallylearned that through her.
I really learned about that Godconnection that is inborn and
that none of us can manufactureor we can't give it to ourselves
or to another person.
Like that is a very private andvery precious thing, um, and I
just I learned so much.
(13:09):
Um, I was trying to help herand I believe I did, um, you
know, through our friendship shecame to read her Bible and I
feel like she really came topeace with dying Um.
But she also really broadened myview of God and of humanity and
of myself.
One thing she did is help mestep outside the box of
(13:33):
Mennonite.
I'm this little Mennonite girlthat feels shy in the big world
and doesn't think that otherpeople are going to understand
the way I think world anddoesn't think that other people
are going to understand the wayI think.
But when I got to know Char, wereally connected at this deeper
level that I realized you knowwhat?
Yeah, there's.
I mean, yeah, we're alldifferent, but they're
individual differences.
It's not because I'm aMennonite doesn't make me just
(13:58):
automatically different, like Ijust grew up feeling different
and then just realized that thatwas kind of in my head through
our friendship and through ourconnection um, and can you say
again where was char from orwhat was her background?
she was ojibwe um chippewa.
Um, she was just a local womanthat lived there in a town near
(14:21):
me and I I got to know herthrough um.
I for a while I did this thingwhere I would drive people to
doctor's appointments.
It's kind of like a littlein-between job that I did, and
so that's how I got to know herthrough driving her to um her
doctor's appointments that sheneeded.
Oh, we just hit it off and Ikept going back to visit and
yeah yeah, and we were.
Zack Johnson (14:42):
We corresponded a little bit via email and I think
this, the unusual friendshipscould.
It's actually great to sort ofthink about that.
It's not.
It's not like the very vanillaor stereotypical friendships
that always shape people, likethe mentor or somebody you grew
(15:02):
up with or a pastor.
Are there any other unusualfriendships that you have in
mind in your own life or othersthat are worth noting?
Luci Kinsinger (15:15):
I like people, and especially like people from
different cultures and peoplethat think differently from me,
because it sharpens my mind andit helps me.
It just helps me see a differentperspective, and so I, so I I
kind of pick up these friendsfrom different places.
One friend that I really wecorresponded quite quite at
(15:39):
length and we still correspond,not as much as we used to, but
is a woman that actually, likeshe, was very I guess
anti-conservative Christianwould be the right word you know
pretty skeptical about eventhere being a God, or and so
just a lot of those argumentsand and, and she actually,
(16:01):
strangely enough, like myarguments, I guess, with her
about God and about Christianity, about the Bible, whatever,
they actually helped me realize,because I've had a lot of
doubts in my past about even,you know, if there is a God,
that sort of thing.
Just a lot of questions, thingsthat that I struggled with,
(16:26):
doubting my faith, and sheactually strangely strengthened
my faith because I just didn'twant what she had, like I'm not
saying that she had a bad life,she has a very good life, you
know she's, you know she's,she's very, she's chosen what
she.
You know, you know she's, she'svery, she's chosen what she,
(16:49):
you know she's chosen what shewants and she's happy with it,
but it's not what I want, andknowing her made me realize that
, like I want God, you know.
And it also made me realizearguments are just arguments,
like you know.
They're intellectual exercisesthat we do but they don't really
get down to the heart of things, and so, like we connect with
God at a way deeper level thanour intellect.
Zack Johnson (17:12):
I love that, Luci.
And then you mentioned that atleast some of the focal.
Can you remind me the names ofyour books that you've written,
just so everyone knows and theycan find them if they're
interested?
Luci Kinsinger (17:26):
so I've written two memoirs.
One is anything but simple mylife is a Mennonite.
That's the first book I wrotethat I had already published
when I was a student at Sattlerand that just tells about me
growing up in my community therein northern Wisconsin and my
journey as a Christian, you know, as a young person growing into
(17:48):
an adult and as a Mennonite.
You're bringing in some ofthose cultural experiences and
just the way I grew up.
And then Turtle Heart is asecond memoir that really
focuses on my friendship withCharlene and just an intimate
look at our friendship and theways we changed each other.
(18:10):
Then I also have two children'sbooks that I published with
Christian light publications.
One is called the arrowhead andkind of it's based on my dad
when he was a little boy, andthen one is Rosanna in the
middle.
That's my most recent book andthat one's based on my mom when
(18:31):
she was a little girl.
Zack Johnson (18:32):
So one's based on my mom when she was a little
girl.
So well, and then.
So it is true that your focalpoints are about people and and
how they've impacted you.
And then I'm just, I'm curious.
I'm curious on the second title.
Why did you on the the turtle,um, the the turd, I can you say
(18:53):
one more time, turtle heart.
Luci Kinsinger (18:56):
So tell me, tell me about the book title and why
you, why you titled it, titledit turtle heart so charlene was
a storyteller and that's the oldojibwe lady that I you know,
that's the one the book is about.
She was a storyteller and shetold me a story one time about
the turtles, a turtle heart.
(19:18):
She said one time the neighborman wanted her to help make
turtle soup because he had had aturtle and his wife wouldn't
touch it.
So he wanted charlene to helphelp him with his turtle.
So anyway, they took the turtleand they chopped its head off
and they hung it on theclothesline.
Hung the turtle on theclothesline, and she said she
said it was an hour before theturtle stopped kicking and so
(19:40):
when it finally stopped kicking,they cut open the turtle and
she said there was the heart.
And the heart was still beating.
And she said there were, therewere four chambers and and they
stopped beating, one at a time.
But she said it was like threedays I forget it was a few days
before it stopped beatingaltogether.
And she said now she wants aheart like the turtle heart, and
(20:08):
the reason she said that isbecause she had a very poor
heart.
That was a part of her healthissues.
She had a lot of health issuesand one of them was a really
weak, bad heart, and so she waswishing for a turtle heart.
But when she said that, itbecame symbolic to me of all of
us and the hearts, the brokenhearts that we have, the
(20:29):
misshaped, weak hearts, andwe're asking for a change of
heart, weak hearts, and we'reasking for a change of heart,
like, as people, like each oneof us.
We want to be different in someway, and and sometimes the me,
we, the person that we want tobe, seems so far from who we are
and and what we can achieve.
(20:49):
You know, and and I guess it'sit's her cry, or her desire for
a new heart became symbolic oflike her and how she wanted to
change, because you know theaddictions that she battled, the
ways of being that she battled,that she tried, was trying to
(21:09):
change.
I could see her trying, youknow, in her life, to become a
better person.
And it became symbolic of justreaching out for something
better and of all of us and howwe're reaching for that and
asking God, you know, give us anew heart.
And so that's where the titleTurtle Heart came from.
Zack Johnson (21:27):
That was better.
That was a better answer than Icould have ever anticipated.
That's great.
And then, just how do you Imean I don't know if you've been
asked this before what's thesecret to developing some of
these unusual friendships?
For your average person whothinks about probably like, is
(21:53):
open to the idea of developing,uh, unusual or unlikely
friendships, how do you?
Are there any like tips orhints you have for people who
are like man?
Luci Kinsinger (22:03):
I wish I could spend more time with people who
aren't exactly like me, etc itseems like people are all around
like, and people areinteresting, like, if you're
interested in people, you willpick them up.
I always tend to go for theones that are not quite fitting
in and I ask them questions whatabout this and what about this?
And most people really connector are open to someone that's
(22:30):
just interested in them.
So I don't know if that's agood answer just out of
curiosity.
Zack Johnson (22:40):
No, I it makes sense.
I don't know if you have like a, if you pick up a ball of your
friendships through that job orsomething, but I mean, having a
job like that feels you'reautomatically going to brush
shoulders with unlikely people,but I don't know if you've
developed their friendships.
Luci Kinsinger (22:57):
You mean a job, you mean like with Char.
Zack Johnson (23:02):
Yeah, like taking people to doctor's appointments.
Luci Kinsinger (23:06):
That was just for a short period of time.
I didn't have that job verylong.
Zack Johnson (23:10):
Right.
Luci Kinsinger (23:11):
Yeah, I don't know Just here, and I just, I
you know meet people.
I met one of my, a really goodfriend of mine, who's from
Somalia.
She has a very interestingstory.
Zack Johnson (23:23):
Where did you meet your friend from Somalia?
Luci Kinsinger (23:26):
So, yeah, that was really like just random.
You asked how do I meet these?
You know how do I meet friends?
I said I like people from avariety of backgrounds and I do.
I love having friends from lotsof different places.
But I can't really tell you howto meet them because, yeah,
like my one really good friendwho is from Somalia, I just
randomly met her at the mall ofAmerica, which is, like, I think
(23:46):
, the largest mall in the U?
S or whatever, but it happensto be about two hours, a few
hours, from where I grew up.
And so one day my siblings and Iwent to the Mall of America.
We were just felt like doingsomething different and we went
there to do the ride.
So we were doing all the ridesat the Mall of America and this
(24:07):
lady comes up and says are youMuslim?
Because she had never seen.
You know, we were Mennonites,wearing our Mennonite dresses
and caps, and she had never seenMennonites before and she was
trying to figure out where wefit.
And she said are you Muslims?
And we're like no, we'reChristians.
And she said, oh, she's aChristian too.
You know, maybe she could cometo our church sometime.
(24:27):
So we connected and throughthat, we have kept up our
friendship and we still talkabout that, how we just randomly
met at the Mall of America andit really does feel like a God
thing that we came together,because it was really unique.
But yeah, that's how I metJacob.
Zack Johnson (24:51):
For anyone who wants to know a little bit more
about you or your books.
Where can we find you?
I know you said CLP, but isthere a website or somewhere
else we can find your work?
Luci Kinsinger (25:03):
So yeah, Christian Light carries my two
children's books, but with mymemoirs probably just Amazon is
the easiest Amazon or BarnesNoble, if you do online shopping
.
Yeah, that would probably bethe easiest spot to look for my
two memoirs.
Zack Johnson (25:24):
And you mentioned that you were a blogger at one
point in life.
Do you still blog, or is that athing of the past?
Luci Kinsinger (25:30):
I recently resumed blogging a lot less
frequently than I used to, but Iam starting to post again.
I kind of took over a yearbreak after the birth of our
little teddy, but yeah, I'mstarting again, and that's
lucindajkinsingercom is where Iblog.
Zack Johnson (25:51):
Perfect and Luci, I just wanted to say thanks so
much for joining and just givingpeople a tiny insight into your
life, and I just wanted to saythanks and blessings and I hope
that some people can find yourbooks and be inspired by your
life.
Luci Kinsinger (26:08):
Yeah, thank you.
It was fun to be able to dothis.
Zack Johnson (26:12):
Yeah, God bless you.
Luci Kinsinger (26:14):
Yeah, thank you.
It is May 8th.
It's still May 8th, 2025.
And I'm here with LuciKinsinger, who actually was one
of Sattler's inaugural students.
Can you remember, Can youbelieve it's been like how long
has it been, Luci?
Luci Kinsinger (00:20):
Well, we've.
You know, we had our 50 yearanniversary, so it must have
been like six years.
Zack Johnson (00:27):
That's right, that sounds about right, but I think
Luci came to August in 2018,the fall of 2018, and spent two
semesters here.
And then, luci, where are youright now?
Luci Kinsinger (00:39):
I'm in Oakland, Maryland.
It's like the little triangleon the very end of Maryland's
tale.
Zack Johnson (00:46):
Well, first of all I'd love to hear about maybe
rewinding a little bit when wereyou at when you decided to
spend that year at Sattler andthen how did things unfold in
your life?
And maybe just try to catch meup so I know sort of a timeline.
And maybe just try to catch meup so I know sort of a timeline,
and usually I love to askpeople their general stories so
(01:08):
that people know who you arebefore you came to Sattler and
those kinds of things.
Luci Kinsinger (01:16):
But I'd love to love to be filled in.
So before I came to Sattler Iwas really just kind of hungry
for some higher education.
I always loved school and whenI saw Sattler it kind of just
hit something in me like thissounds really cool Going to this
, going to Boston, interactingwith professors that had been
(01:41):
educated in places like Harvardand that had been educated in
places like Harvard and the,especially the, the kind of
niche worldview, not necessarilyAnabaptist but yet having that
early.
Christian perspective.
Zack Johnson (01:59):
Right, I was like I really, really liked it and
and before.
I think you're still.
Your claim to fame here, atleast in my mind, is you're the
only student that's maybewritten a book before showing up
as a student.
And and I'd love to just talk alittle bit about where did your
(02:22):
, you know, where did youdevelop a habit or a passion to
write and then we can follow upwith at this stage in your life,
how do you fit writing in withall the other things that you're
passionate about, and I'm sureyour life has changed since you
were here in Boston with that.
Luci Kinsinger (02:40):
Yeah, it's changed a lot.
I've always loved.
When I was a little girl, Iloved reading.
I would just, I spent my wholechildhood just reading, reading,
reading, and you know, I guessit's kind of a natural.
I was a shy person and so Iwould.
I would vent by writing and Ilearned to love writing on that
way.
And then I started, I started ablog and it was very scary,
(03:04):
publishing my first blog postand having people, actual people
, read what you wrote.
You know that was so terrifying.
But then it was also reallythrilling when you got good
feedback.
You know, people read this andthey're like I really like it,
and so it was kind ofintoxicating, I guess, and just,
it was a way that I could.
I still feel that way that Ican express myself.
(03:25):
Maybe parts of myself that Iwould not probably verbalize, I
can express through writing, andso I just it's just part of me,
um, a creative part and anexpressive part, that that is my
art, I guess all right.
Zack Johnson (03:41):
So since, since, uh, marrying and children, how
do you fit writing and how doyou keep that alive as a passion
at this stage?
And being a?
I think you're, I think I sawthat you wrote yours you can say
you're a stay at home mom.
I always, I always joke with mywife about better titles or
(04:02):
alternative titles, but it's avery important, one of the most
important roles, so how do youfit it in now?
Luci Kinsinger (04:08):
So I fit it in where and when I can.
Sometimes it's when I can'tsleep at night, sometimes it's
in the early morning, sometimesit's over nap time, sometimes
it's with a child on my lap,just here and there.
And it's really hard now tofind that quality time, that
time where you can just focusand zone out.
And I think the very best timethat I actually get that is when
(04:31):
Ivan has the children, for youknow, maybe he's working outside
or something and they're withdaddy and then I.
That's the then.
I love it.
I come out of those times sohappy because I actually got
some some writing time, somereal writing time, where you're
in a different world of your own.
Zack Johnson (04:49):
I'll make sure to.
I'll make sure to send this,the recording to him, so he
knows that.
I'm sure he knows that.
Um, and then even I actuallythink this Luci this is actually
we actually make internal jokeshere that we have a strange
retention rate, because more ofthe women who come here do end
up getting married, maybe midwaythrough their college career,
(05:12):
maybe not midway, and theythought they wanted a degree,
but then somebody comes alongand asks them to date, and then
dating leads to all the thingsthat dating leads to marriage
them to date, and then datingleads to all the things that
dating leads to marriage.
So how do you fit?
I know you've probably thoughtabout how do you square away
(05:36):
those seemingly two dreams thatseem at odds with each other, or
maybe not?
How do you square the educationwith motherhood?
And where did all those dreamsfit in?
Do you have anything to say toother young women who are in
your shoes and have similarpassions?
Luci Kinsinger (05:52):
I guess it's going to be different for
different people, like what yourpriorities are.
Writing is really important tome and even though I feel like I
don't really get the qualitythat I used to or the time, I do
still try to do it a little bithere and there and just keep it
up.
You know, I know there willcome a time when I have more
time for it, but I think andI've heard this from more than
(06:16):
one people, and it's what Iembrace, try to embrace, and I
know that you know, this is howit is for a lot of women who
love their families and lovetheir children.
You know, you're not going toget those years back when your
children are little, whenthey're tiny.
You know, yeah, those, thoseyears are so precious and I do
(06:37):
realize that and and I reallylove, you know, being a mom to
my children and it's okay that Ican't write the way I used to,
because I'd rather, you know,I'd rather be there for my
children when I can, as much asI can, as much as I know how to
be.
Zack Johnson (06:53):
Yeah, I.
I just wanted to affirm youthat I generally think that any
any given point of time I alsotry to tell women who say I
might, or young women who mightget married, is it even worth
starting a degree If you evensuspect that you might get?
(07:15):
You might start dating and getmarried midway?
Do you have, do you have,anything to say to somebody with
that kind of in the back oftheir mind that they're like is
it even worth starting somethingif I'm going to have to stop at
midway or choose to stop atmidway and feel free to say it's
not worth it if it wasn't worthit for you?
Luci Kinsinger (07:33):
I'm just curious what your thought is on that
well, I mean, if you sit aroundyour whole life waiting to get
married, you might bedisappointed, and then you won't
have a degree or children, andthen you know like I think, it's
totally worth doing what youlove and being happy in it.
Because I was very happy as asingle woman and very fulfilled.
You know I always, you know, Ihad my eyes open, you know, if
(07:54):
God had somebody for me, but Ididn't.
I didn't feel like that's whatit was going to take to fulfill
me and I'm glad it was that way.
I'm glad that I was pursuingthings I loved and I'm glad that
I had a passion and thatdoesn't not everybody just knows
right away what they'repassionate about.
Um, but when I started writingI you know it did a lot for me,
(08:17):
it gave me a lot of courage and,yeah, it just um helped me
really step out of my comfortzone and I'm very glad that I
pursued that and I will continueto pursue my degree as one, or
my dream of writing as one thatI can really take anywhere ask
(08:45):
you a follow-up question here,because I have a lot of
conversations with people whoyou said like really getting the
most out of your singleness andI feel like there's there's a
certain people who the lastthing they want to be a single
and they're like trying to fightagainst it.
Zack Johnson (09:00):
Do you have, do you have, any advice on how to
just suck the marrow out ofsingleness for all it's worth?
I know that that's a hardquestion, but I think that it's
really relevant for people intheir early 20s who are like,
hey, I'm single and I don'treally want to be, but I also
(09:20):
have tons of time andopportunity.
So what would you, what wouldyou say to somebody in that that
sort of life stage?
Luci Kinsinger (09:30):
I mean, everybody's different, and I
pursued what I loved, naturally,and my husband he was single
for a while too and he reallywanted to be married.
I mean he really, you know, buthe just went there with the
right person, didn't come along.
But now he looks back and he'slike, oh, he's glad he got to
(09:52):
travel, because he traveled alot, like he was to every state
in the US, he was to quite a fewdifferent countries, and now we
, you know, try to travel withchildren.
It's really difficult.
Zack Johnson (10:13):
So there are really a lot of opportunities as
a single person that are somuch more complicated.
In some ways, when you'remarried, life changes a lot.
No, I agree, and I won't givemy advice, but I always think
it's really interesting where,as soon as somebody starts
focusing on what they can dowith being single, that's
exactly when they startattracting people to themselves.
It's a really odd.
It's an odd paradox that I'vesort of noticed, where, like, if
(10:36):
all you think about is notbeing single, but anyway, yeah,
I just think I have things tosay on that.
Luci Kinsinger (10:44):
I love being married and I'm so thankful that
God brought Ivan into my life,but like I miss part, there's a
part of me that misses the oldsingle Luci.
Like I don't know, I changed,you just change and it's OK, but
I kind of miss that singleperson.
I don't know.
Zack Johnson (11:06):
I understand what you're saying.
Speaking of missing people, Iknow that I always like to talk
to people about people who haveshaped them and friendships that
have made an impact on faith,and I know that you have a lot
of people in your life that havedone that for you.
(11:26):
Would you mind talking a littlebit about friendships that have
impacted you deeply andstrengthened your faith?
I'm just sort of reading somestuff I had written down to talk
to you about.
Luci Kinsinger (11:40):
Yeah, yeah.
(12:08):
So the friendship that's mostdeeply impacted me was, well, I
actually wrote a memoir,published since I was in college
, called Turtle Heart, an oldershe was like in her 70s Ojibwe
woman, and she was a very uniqueperson.
She came to know God theCreator.
She always called him theCreator.
I mean, she grew up in aCatholic home so she had the
church teaching.
You know, she said the nunsdidn't really teach the Bible.
She went to Catholic school.
The nuns didn't really teachthe Bible but they taught about
(12:28):
the Ten Commandments.
I think that's what she said.
So she had some of that.
You know, maybe not thestrongest Bible background, but
she did have some knowledge.
But she really came to a loveof the Creator, I think, just
through her love of nature andthrough the sense that God gave
her of himself.
Because he does, he has thatconnection with each person that
(12:49):
is open to him and I reallylearned that through her.
I really learned about that Godconnection that is inborn and
that none of us can manufactureor we can't give it to ourselves
or to another person.
Like that is a very private andvery precious thing, um, and I
just I learned so much.
(13:09):
Um, I was trying to help herand I believe I did, um, you
know, through our friendship shecame to read her Bible and I
feel like she really came topeace with dying Um.
But she also really broadened myview of God and of humanity and
of myself.
One thing she did is help mestep outside the box of
(13:33):
Mennonite.
I'm this little Mennonite girlthat feels shy in the big world
and doesn't think that otherpeople are going to understand
the way I think world anddoesn't think that other people
are going to understand the wayI think.
But when I got to know Char, wereally connected at this deeper
level that I realized you knowwhat?
Yeah, there's.
I mean, yeah, we're alldifferent, but they're
individual differences.
It's not because I'm aMennonite doesn't make me just
(13:58):
automatically different, like Ijust grew up feeling different
and then just realized that thatwas kind of in my head through
our friendship and through ourconnection um, and can you say
again where was char from orwhat was her background?
she was ojibwe um chippewa.
Um, she was just a local womanthat lived there in a town near
(14:21):
me and I I got to know herthrough um.
I for a while I did this thingwhere I would drive people to
doctor's appointments.
It's kind of like a littlein-between job that I did, and
so that's how I got to know herthrough driving her to um her
doctor's appointments that sheneeded.
Oh, we just hit it off and Ikept going back to visit and
yeah yeah, and we were.
Zack Johnson (14:42):
We corresponded a little bit via email and I think
this, the unusual friendshipscould.
It's actually great to sort ofthink about that.
It's not.
It's not like the very vanillaor stereotypical friendships
that always shape people, likethe mentor or somebody you grew
(15:02):
up with or a pastor.
Are there any other unusualfriendships that you have in
mind in your own life or othersthat are worth noting?
Luci Kinsinger (15:15):
I like people, and especially like people from
different cultures and peoplethat think differently from me,
because it sharpens my mind andit helps me.
It just helps me see a differentperspective, and so I, so I I
kind of pick up these friendsfrom different places.
One friend that I really wecorresponded quite quite at
(15:39):
length and we still correspond,not as much as we used to, but
is a woman that actually, likeshe, was very I guess
anti-conservative Christianwould be the right word you know
pretty skeptical about eventhere being a God, or and so
just a lot of those argumentsand and, and she actually,
(16:01):
strangely enough, like myarguments, I guess, with her
about God and about Christianity, about the Bible, whatever,
they actually helped me realize,because I've had a lot of
doubts in my past about even,you know, if there is a God,
that sort of thing.
Just a lot of questions, thingsthat that I struggled with,
(16:26):
doubting my faith, and sheactually strangely strengthened
my faith because I just didn'twant what she had, like I'm not
saying that she had a bad life,she has a very good life, you
know she's, you know she's,she's very, she's chosen what
she.
You know, you know she's, she'svery, she's chosen what she,
(16:49):
you know she's chosen what shewants and she's happy with it,
but it's not what I want, andknowing her made me realize that
, like I want God, you know.
And it also made me realizearguments are just arguments,
like you know.
They're intellectual exercisesthat we do but they don't really
get down to the heart of things, and so, like we connect with
God at a way deeper level thanour intellect.
Zack Johnson (17:12):
I love that, Luci.
And then you mentioned that atleast some of the focal.
Can you remind me the names ofyour books that you've written,
just so everyone knows and theycan find them if they're
interested?
Luci Kinsinger (17:26):
so I've written two memoirs.
One is anything but simple mylife is a Mennonite.
That's the first book I wrotethat I had already published
when I was a student at Sattlerand that just tells about me
growing up in my community therein northern Wisconsin and my
journey as a Christian, you know, as a young person growing into
(17:48):
an adult and as a Mennonite.
You're bringing in some ofthose cultural experiences and
just the way I grew up.
And then Turtle Heart is asecond memoir that really
focuses on my friendship withCharlene and just an intimate
look at our friendship and theways we changed each other.
(18:10):
Then I also have two children'sbooks that I published with
Christian light publications.
One is called the arrowhead andkind of it's based on my dad
when he was a little boy, andthen one is Rosanna in the
middle.
That's my most recent book andthat one's based on my mom when
(18:31):
she was a little girl.
Zack Johnson (18:32):
So one's based on my mom when she was a little
girl.
So well, and then.
So it is true that your focalpoints are about people and and
how they've impacted you.
And then I'm just, I'm curious.
I'm curious on the second title.
Why did you on the the turtle,um, the the turd, I can you say
(18:53):
one more time, turtle heart.
Luci Kinsinger (18:56):
So tell me, tell me about the book title and why
you, why you titled it, titledit turtle heart so charlene was
a storyteller and that's the oldojibwe lady that I you know,
that's the one the book is about.
She was a storyteller and shetold me a story one time about
the turtles, a turtle heart.
(19:18):
She said one time the neighborman wanted her to help make
turtle soup because he had had aturtle and his wife wouldn't
touch it.
So he wanted charlene to helphelp him with his turtle.
So anyway, they took the turtleand they chopped its head off
and they hung it on theclothesline.
Hung the turtle on theclothesline, and she said she
said it was an hour before theturtle stopped kicking and so
(19:40):
when it finally stopped kicking,they cut open the turtle and
she said there was the heart.
And the heart was still beating.
And she said there were, therewere four chambers and and they
stopped beating, one at a time.
But she said it was like threedays I forget it was a few days
before it stopped beatingaltogether.
And she said now she wants aheart like the turtle heart, and
(20:08):
the reason she said that isbecause she had a very poor
heart.
That was a part of her healthissues.
She had a lot of health issuesand one of them was a really
weak, bad heart, and so she waswishing for a turtle heart.
But when she said that, itbecame symbolic to me of all of
us and the hearts, the brokenhearts that we have, the
(20:29):
misshaped, weak hearts, andwe're asking for a change of
heart, weak hearts, and we'reasking for a change of heart,
like, as people, like each oneof us.
We want to be different in someway, and and sometimes the me,
we, the person that we want tobe, seems so far from who we are
and and what we can achieve.
(20:49):
You know, and and I guess it'sit's her cry, or her desire for
a new heart became symbolic oflike her and how she wanted to
change, because you know theaddictions that she battled, the
ways of being that she battled,that she tried, was trying to
(21:09):
change.
I could see her trying, youknow, in her life, to become a
better person.
And it became symbolic of justreaching out for something
better and of all of us and howwe're reaching for that and
asking God, you know, give us anew heart.
And so that's where the titleTurtle Heart came from.
Zack Johnson (21:27):
That was better.
That was a better answer than Icould have ever anticipated.
That's great.
And then, just how do you Imean I don't know if you've been
asked this before what's thesecret to developing some of
these unusual friendships?
For your average person whothinks about probably like, is
(21:53):
open to the idea of developing,uh, unusual or unlikely
friendships, how do you?
Are there any like tips orhints you have for people who
are like man?
Luci Kinsinger (22:03):
I wish I could spend more time with people who
aren't exactly like me, etc itseems like people are all around
like, and people areinteresting, like, if you're
interested in people, you willpick them up.
I always tend to go for theones that are not quite fitting
in and I ask them questions whatabout this and what about this?
And most people really connector are open to someone that's
(22:30):
just interested in them.
So I don't know if that's agood answer just out of
curiosity.
Zack Johnson (22:40):
No, I it makes sense.
I don't know if you have like a, if you pick up a ball of your
friendships through that job orsomething, but I mean, having a
job like that feels you'reautomatically going to brush
shoulders with unlikely people,but I don't know if you've
developed their friendships.
Luci Kinsinger (22:57):
You mean a job, you mean like with Char.
Zack Johnson (23:02):
Yeah, like taking people to doctor's appointments.
Luci Kinsinger (23:06):
That was just for a short period of time.
I didn't have that job verylong.
Zack Johnson (23:10):
Right.
Luci Kinsinger (23:11):
Yeah, I don't know Just here, and I just, I
you know meet people.
I met one of my, a really goodfriend of mine, who's from
Somalia.
She has a very interestingstory.
Zack Johnson (23:23):
Where did you meet your friend from Somalia?
Luci Kinsinger (23:26):
So, yeah, that was really like just random.
You asked how do I meet these?
You know how do I meet friends?
I said I like people from avariety of backgrounds and I do.
I love having friends from lotsof different places.
But I can't really tell you howto meet them because, yeah,
like my one really good friendwho is from Somalia, I just
randomly met her at the mall ofAmerica, which is, like, I think
(23:46):
, the largest mall in the U?
S or whatever, but it happensto be about two hours, a few
hours, from where I grew up.
And so one day my siblings and Iwent to the Mall of America.
We were just felt like doingsomething different and we went
there to do the ride.
So we were doing all the ridesat the Mall of America and this
(24:07):
lady comes up and says are youMuslim?
Because she had never seen.
You know, we were Mennonites,wearing our Mennonite dresses
and caps, and she had never seenMennonites before and she was
trying to figure out where wefit.
And she said are you Muslims?
And we're like no, we'reChristians.
And she said, oh, she's aChristian too.
You know, maybe she could cometo our church sometime.
(24:27):
So we connected and throughthat, we have kept up our
friendship and we still talkabout that, how we just randomly
met at the Mall of America andit really does feel like a God
thing that we came together,because it was really unique.
But yeah, that's how I metJacob.
Zack Johnson (24:51):
For anyone who wants to know a little bit more
about you or your books.
Where can we find you?
I know you said CLP, but isthere a website or somewhere
else we can find your work?
Luci Kinsinger (25:03):
So yeah, Christian Light carries my two
children's books, but with mymemoirs probably just Amazon is
the easiest Amazon or BarnesNoble, if you do online shopping
.
Yeah, that would probably bethe easiest spot to look for my
two memoirs.
Zack Johnson (25:24):
And you mentioned that you were a blogger at one
point in life.
Do you still blog, or is that athing of the past?
Luci Kinsinger (25:30):
I recently resumed blogging a lot less
frequently than I used to, but Iam starting to post again.
I kind of took over a yearbreak after the birth of our
little teddy, but yeah, I'mstarting again, and that's
lucindajkinsingercom is where Iblog.
Zack Johnson (25:51):
Perfect and Luci, I just wanted to say thanks so
much for joining and just givingpeople a tiny insight into your
life, and I just wanted to saythanks and blessings and I hope
that some people can find yourbooks and be inspired by your
life.
Luci Kinsinger (26:08):
Yeah, thank you.
It was fun to be able to dothis.
Zack Johnson (26:12):
Yeah, God bless you.
Luci Kinsinger (26:14):
Yeah, thank you.
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