February 25, 2025 • 41 mins
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If you’ve ever felt like being an introvert puts you at a disadvantage in online business, think again! In this episode, I chat with Nicole Kepic, author of Don't Ask Me to Be Loud, about how to build a successful business as an introvert by embracing your natural strengths. Nicole shares how deep listening and empathy help introverts connect with their audience and build trust without needing to be loud or extroverted.
We also explore introvert-friendly marketing strategies like email marketing for personal connections, podcast guesting for meaningful conversations, and choosing social media approaches that feel authentic. By working with your energy rather than against it, you can grow your business in a sustainable way.
When it comes to selling, Nicole encourages us to shift our mindset—it’s not about being pushy; it’s about serving. If we truly believe in what we offer, sharing it becomes a way to help others, not just make a sale. Success in business as an introvert isn’t about changing who you are but leaning into your strengths. If you want to build a thriving, authentic business, this conversation is for you!
02:48 - How Nicole decided on a specific topic for her book
10:05 - Ways that Nicole has found introversion to be like a superpower in her business
14:07 - Building visibility for your business as an introvert and marketing strategies that don’t drain your energy
23:31 - The benefits of podcast guesting for introverts
29:15 - Tips for selling without being inauthentic
Links & Resources:
- Nicole’s Book: Don’t Ask Me to Be Loud
- Nicole’s Instagram: @nkcopywriting
- Follow me on Instagram @kristendoyle.co
- Check out my Everything Page: a one-stop shop for savvy selling!
- The Savvy Seller Collective
- Join my private Facebook community: Savvy Teacher Sellers
- More resources for growing your TPT business
- Rate & review The Savvy Teacher Seller on Apple Podcasts
Show Notes: https://kristendoyle.co/episode136
Tired of constantly hustling to sell your digital products? Check out my free 19-minute training where I show you how to turn all those products you already have into a profitable, automated business.
Get more freedom and less stress ➡️ watch now at kristendoyle.co/training
Check out my Everything Page at https://kristendoyle.co/everything
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen Doyle (00:00):
Are you an introvert feeling like if you
want to succeed in yourbusiness, you'll have to force
yourself to be loud and get outthere more? Or maybe you're
somewhere in the middle, likeme, an ambivert, but you're
still struggling with showing upin ways that feel authentic to
who you are. In today's episode,I am sitting down with my friend
(00:23):
Nicole Kepic to talk about howrunning a business is a little
different as an introvert.
Nicole's been on the showbefore, teaching us all about
copywriting, but today I get tointroduce her as the author of
her very first book, Don't Askme to be Loud, the Introverted
Girls Guide to Online Business.
Nicole is a sales pagecopywriter with 20 years of
(00:47):
experience. She wrote for somemajor companies whose names you
would definitely recognizebefore she decided to become an
entrepreneur, and now she helpsfemale business owners write
copy that connects and convertswithout feeling pushy or
inauthentic.
We talk all about how toleverage your natural strengths
(01:11):
as an introvert, marketingstrategies that don't drain your
energy, and how to sell yourproducts in a way that really
feels genuine to you. And Nicolealso shared a little bit of her
journey of writing this book andhow she's navigating her own
book launch as an introvert.
Let's get to it.
(01:32):
Are you a digital product orcourse creator, selling on
platforms like teachers payteachers, Etsy or your own
website? Ready to grow yourbusiness, but not into the kind
of constant hustle that leadsstraight to burnout? Then you're
in the right place.
Welcome to The Savvy Seller. I'mKristen Doyle, and I'm here to
give you no fluff, tools andstrategies that move the needle
(01:55):
for your business withoutburning you out in the process.
Things like SEO, no stressmarketing, email list building,
automation, and so much more.
Let's get started y'all.
Today's episode is super fun forme, because I have had the
privilege of standing on thesidelines and watching from when
(02:21):
this book was just kind of anidea all the way through
launching it now. Nicole,welcome, welcome. I'm so excited
to have this conversation withyou today
Nicole Kepic (02:32):
Thank you, Kristen. Thank you for having me
back. I feel like I could reallyget used to this repeat guest
status.
Kristen Doyle (02:39):
It's fun, isn't it?
Nicole Kepic (02:40):
It is.
Kristen Doyle (02:41):
It makes the the second and the third interviews
feel so much, I don't know,easier.
Nicole Kepic (02:46):
Absolutely.
Kristen Doyle (02:48):
So I remember when you first started talking
about writing a book and youwere trying to figure out what
you wanted to write about. Whatkind of made you settle on this
specific topic?
Nicole Kepic (03:02):
Oh, wow, yeah, it was definitely an evolution. It
was a seed of an idea beforethat grew into something
different and something bigger.
So, yeah, kind of a three partstage. So in the beginning, the
first part, I thought, Okay, I'mgonna write a book about
copywriting. It just makessense. I'm a copywriter. It's
what I do, and it would fit soperfectly into my business
funnel.
But then the more I thoughtabout that, the thought of
(03:24):
writing 300 pages just oncopywriting was like, oh, a bit
intense, and also I thoughtmight be a bit boring. So for
now, I scratched that idea. Andthen the next stage was thinking
I wanted it to be a bit moreholistic, a bit more
encompassing of all the thingsthat as business owners, we need
to learn and do and master onthe daily.
(03:47):
So yes, copywriting is one ofthe things it's so important to
have your you know, the brightmessaging for your audience, but
I wanted it to be more about themarketing, the branding, the
visibility, the pricing andselling and the mindset stuff
that goes along with all that.
So basically, like I said, moreencompassing, more holistic of
the business experience. Andthen finally, I was like, Okay,
(04:10):
I've got this idea for abusiness book, a well rounded
business book, but what's myunique angle? What's my What's
the thing that's going to makeit different from everything
else? And then it just hit me,why not write through the lens
of an introvert? Since, hello,I'm an introvert. I am certainly
not this loud, bold extrovert.
And I thought, why not writethrough the lens of an introvert
for introverts? Becausecertainly, I mean, everyone has
(04:33):
challenges when it comes torunning a business, but there's
certain challenges that are,let's say, more, I don't know
more difficult, just differentas an introvert, running an
online business in this busy,loud space.
Kristen Doyle (04:46):
Yeah, it is, for sure. And I know you know this
because we've talked about itbefore, but for everyone else
listening, I am one of thosepeople, whenever I take the
introvert, extrovert quizzes, Ialways score right around 50/50,
and it's always just skewed alittle bit more to the introvert
side than it is to the extrovertside. But I am always like 48/52
(05:10):
47/53 just right there in themiddle, which I guess makes me
an ambivert, but you're prettysolid introvert, right?
Nicole Kepic (05:19):
I think so. And you know what I mean? I will
say, I struggle to call myselfan introvert a while, because
when most people talk aboutintroversion, it's almost like
there's this negativeconnotation to it, like, Oh,
you're an introvert. You don'tlike people, or you're not good
with people, or you're notsocial. And I'm like, what?
Wait. I am social. I lovepeople. I love
Kristen Doyle (05:38):
like, you're fun.
Nicole Kepic (05:41):
Thank you. Thank you. I wouldn't call myself fun,
but thank you for calling mefun. Yeah, so I just felt like,
why would I want to call myselfan introvert if that's what
everybody is attaching to theword introvert. But finally, I
let those, you know, those mythsgo and then just kind of
embraced my introversion, or atleast. You know, it's a journey
of still embracing it. But yeah,it's like, I want to defend the
(06:03):
honor of introverts and say youcan still love people, you can
still go to social events andenjoy them, be around lots of
people, and still be anintrovert.
Kristen Doyle (06:12):
Yeah and I think it's so good to recognize and
just embrace that this is who weare, this is how we're made, and
it's so much more as as I havebeen learning over the years,
learning more about introversionand extroversion. It's so much
more about your energy than whatyou like or personality traits
or anything.
(06:33):
And the more I've learned that,the more I can see, especially
as somebody who falls kind of inthe middle, I can see myself
getting to that point of like,of low energy from all the
social stuff and needing to beby myself for a little bit and
have some quiet time. And itjust it makes so many things
easier when you recognize it andyou understand it.
Unknown (06:55):
Yeah, absolutely, you give yourself that space to just
replenish your energy andrejuvenate. I was talking to
somebody the other day, and Ikind of liked how they phrased
it. They said they don't reallylike saying there are activities
that are introvert activitiesand activities that are
extrovert activities, they'rethe same activities, but we just
might approach them differently.
Nicole Kepic (07:13):
So if I'm speaking or, you know, doing a
presentation or going to anevent, I'm happy to do that, but
I might just prepare for itdifferently or afterwards. Yes,
I might need, like, a two hournap. So yeah, it's just certain
activities are not closed off tointroverts or extroverts. You
just approach them differentlyand then recoup differently.
Kristen Doyle (07:33):
It's one of the big reasons when I go to, like,
conferences and things, I willusually either book a room
alone, or if I have a roommate,it's somebody I have known for a
long time who gets me andunderstands if I just need to
lay in bed and read a book andnot speak for a few hours.
Unknown (07:50):
That is so true. I mean, we've done a few
masterminds together, and Ithink it was only the last one
that I had a room by myself, andI thought, Ah, so this is what
it's about. This is why Kristenhas been doing it because, yeah,
you're peopling all weekend forabout four days, and then it's
just nice to have your own spacewhen you know all the peopleing
is done.
Kristen Doyle (08:07):
Yeah, it's just good to have that space. The
other thing I have learned thatI've done the last two times
I've gone out of town is,instead of the event ending and
I hop on a plane and I'mimmediately back home with my
family, the last two timesbecause of flights. I really
didn't do it on purpose, butbecause of what flights were
available, I have spent a nightin a hotel and gotten up and
(08:29):
left early the next morning tocome home, and that really just
gave me the time to decompress,because I was the first one
anyway. I was by myself. Thislast one, I was with friends. We
had fun. There was nodecompressing.
But I could tell between the twohow helpful it was for me to
have that like, I don't know,six or seven hours of awake time
(08:54):
at the hotel, just quiet, alone,decompressing a little bit, and
then that flight home, and I wasready to hit the ground running
with my family once I got home,it was really nice.
Nicole Kepic (09:05):
That does sound blissful, and it's funny I think
of I don't have the same setup,but my family knows my husband
and son know if I'm travelingand I come home, say I arrive
home around 4:30/5 (09:15):
00, there's not going to be the question,
Mom, what's for dinner. Like,please have dinner made. I am
not just jumping back intofamily life right away, like,
please, at least have dinnermade.
Kristen Doyle (09:27):
I need a little time. Oh, and you're at a
different phase too, with yourson being a lot older than my
kids are right now, I'm still inthe like, they come and attack
me. Well, the little one does.
The middle schooler, not somuch. He's too cool for that.
Last time I came home, he toldme he didn't miss me so that was
fun.
Unknown (09:45):
Ouch. Dagger to the heart. Thanks.
Kristen Doyle (09:49):
He didn't mean it.
It's just, it turns out we havedifferent definitions of the
word 'miss'. What he means is hewasn't like sad all weekend.
Nicole Kepic (09:57):
Okay, well, that's okay.
Kristen Doyle (09:58):
Oh, okay. Well, you're a well adjusted kid who
can handle me being away. That'sgood. That's a win for me. Well,
so we you and I've talked beforeabout how being introverted can
actually be good for us asbusiness owners, and can really
help us to connect with ouraudiences and some other things.
(10:19):
Can you share a little bit aboutsome of the ways you found
introversion to almost be like asuperpower in your business.
Unknown (10:26):
Yeah, I love that you say it that way, that you
phrased it that way, because sooften we think it's a hindrance.
We think I'm an introvert, so Ican't be good at sales, or I'm
an introvert. I can't ever dovideo. And I think sometimes we
almost use it as an excuse,right? So superpower, I love
that.
Nicole Kepic (10:42):
I personally think, like this is a general
sweep, you know, a sweepinggeneralization, but I think
introverts are really goodlisteners and very empathetic,
which, of course, comes inreally handy when we're
understanding and listening toour audiences. So we're almost
letting them be the star of theshow, like we're putting
ourselves in the back seat,saying, hey, it's all about you.
We're listening to their needsand their wants, their desires,
(11:05):
and then in turn, we're creatingproducts and solutions or
services that meet those needsbetter. So that listening is so
important.
I also think that, I mean, thisis sounds weird to say, but I
also think introverts can bereally great leaders, but maybe
not. You know, I'm thinking notin the traditional sense. When I
think of leader, I think of backwhen I was in corporate, I was a
(11:27):
senior copywriter most of mycareer, but there are a couple
times where I got promoted tomarketing manager.
And it was because my bosseswanted to promote me and move me
up the ladder. But I did notenjoy it, because all of a
sudden, not only was I notwriting, which I love to do, but
I was managing a team of peopleand having to have uncomfortable
conversations, like, Oh, youcame in late today. You need to
(11:49):
stop doing that.
And it's like I just wanted tobe their best friends in
business, and so it was just notthe kind of leader I wanted to
be. But I think there's also away of looking at like, thought
leadership, so introverts canmake really great leaders in the
thought leadership sense. Sosharing your expertise, making
an impact, and, you know,leading in that sense.
Kristen Doyle (12:11):
Yeah, you know, when I was reading that story in
your book, it occurred to methat I really hate that part of
managing a team. It's somethingI have always struggled with.
You've gotten some of my Voxermessages where I didn't know how
to handle basically aconfrontation that I needed to
have with somebody on my team,and not even that it was a
(12:34):
difficult or a bigconfrontation. But having to
correct people never feels goodto me.
I can do it as a mom all daylong, and my husband would
probably die. He'd say I do itas a wife too. But when it comes
to other people, that's not easyfor me, and I never really tied
that into maybe it being alittle bit of an introvert
(12:56):
thing.
Unknown (12:57):
Yeah, it's so uncomfortable. I just yeah, I
didn't like it, because here Iwas the person going to lunch
with these people, and then allof a sudden I get promoted. It's
like, oh, you're their boss. Itjust changed the dynamic. And
yeah, it just was not, not therole I wanted.
Kristen Doyle (13:10):
For sure. But I love that you talked about being
a leader who can lead with thatquiet confidence. It doesn't
always have to be big and loudand in your face.
Unknown (13:20):
No. And I think if you're serving clients or
customers, which most of us are,that introversion, that
calmness, that peacefulness, Iguess, can put your clients at
peace too and and give themconfidence that they've made the
right investment, the rightdecision to work with you, so
they feel good with theirinvestment as well.
Kristen Doyle (13:37):
Yeah, you know, one of the things actually, that
I have always been told bypeople is that I tend to be that
person when something feelschaotic in our entrepreneur
circles, I tend to be that voiceof calm and reason, and again, I
just never really put two andtwo together.
Nicole Kepic (13:54):
I can attest to that, because at least in our
Voxer chain, you're the personwho's like, it's fine, it's
gonna be fine. That's the lightI think of. So yes, you are the
calm choice of reason in ourboxer chain.
Kristen Doyle (14:06):
Well thank you.
So I know one of the things thatat least I struggle with, and I
know probably a lot of listenersdo too as introverts, is putting
them, putting yourself out thereto market your products. And
maybe our listeners who aren'tintroverts struggle with the
same thing. What kind ofexperience have you had with
doing the marketing things,building visibility for your
(14:28):
business as an introvertspecifically?
Nicole Kepic (14:32):
I mean, I struggled at first, in the sense
that when, again, when I was incorporate, the last place I
worked at, just for context, Iwas at a creative agency. So it
was me and a bunch of designersaccount managers. I was the only
copywriter on staff. So anyproject that came in from any of
our clients, our internationalclients, I got to write the
copy. I didn't have to fight forattention. I didn't have to
(14:54):
fight for projects. Now that Ithink of it, it was a pretty
sweet gig.
Kristen Doyle (14:57):
I was gonna say, it sounds pretty great!
Nicole Kepic (14:59):
It does, it was great. When I, you know, quit
corporate, went for my ownbusiness online, then it's like,
Oh, wow. I am not the only,like, I knew this, of course,
but you really see that thereare so many people in your
space. So I think I worried, howam I going to stand out? How am
I going to stand out whenthere's so many big, bold
(15:19):
personalities out there, and howis that going to affect my
marketing? Am I going to have todo marketing activities that
just are not me? Am I going tohave to pretend to be somebody
I'm not?
Kristen Doyle (15:29):
Am I going to have to dance on TikTok? Please
don't make me dance on TikTok.
Unknown (15:33):
I'm not even on TikTok.
Let's be real. My teenage sonwould be mortified.
Kristen Doyle (15:39):
I'm only on BookTok. I just watch.
Nicole Kepic (15:44):
Yeah, so I just for marketing to answer your
question. I just really leanedinto what feels authentic, like
I'm not going to pretend to besomebody I'm not. And then when
I'm choosing marketingactivities, it sounds so simple,
but I really just lean intowhat's easy for me and what's
enjoyable. And it doesn't mean Iwon't try hard things. You know?
I will, of course, get out of mycomfort zone and try different
(16:05):
things, because there's so muchpride and accomplishment that
comes with that when you whenyou master something or do
something that you thought youcouldn't do or were afraid to
do. But overall, what comes easyto me and what do I enjoy doing?
Because if you don't enjoy doinga certain activity like it's
just gonna it's just gonna makeyou feel miserable. And there's
so many activities to choose, sowhy choose ones that don't let
(16:28):
you up inside?
Kristen Doyle (16:30):
Right now you're right in the middle of launch
mode as we're recording yourofficial book launch day was
yesterday. Congratulations. Soyou're in the middle of launch
mode, which is pretty intensefor everybody, much less for
introverts. I know for me, whenI am in launch mode, I have that
(16:51):
energy for a while, andsometimes I feel like I hit a
wall and I can't keep going.
It's just an intense season withtons of marketing, which, you
know, like we said, that canfeel really hard for introverts.
So what are some of thosemarketing strategies you have
found that feel good for you,some that as an introvert, they
(17:13):
don't drain your energy and makeyou feel like you've hit that
wall and need to stop.
Nicole Kepic (17:18):
Yeah. I mean, for me, I really rely on email.
That's a big one for me, justbecause, like, it's very
introvert friendly when youthink of it, because you're just
sitting at your computer, you'rewriting an email one to one. I
mean, obviously the email isgoing to go to more than one
person, but you're writing it asif you're just talking to one
friend, so and you're not havingto do video and show up, you
know, 24/7 live.
(17:39):
So email is a big one for me.
And I've really built a strongcommunity over email. I find
that when I launched somethingnew, my email subscribers are
the first people to be like,Hey, this is awesome. I'm on
board. I also do social medialike, I know some people just
hate social media. I getfrustrated with it sometimes,
but I I do love Instagram in thesense that I've met so many
(18:00):
amazing friends, collaborators,just business friends on
Instagram, and even clients too.
So I just approach it like I'mgonna do Instagram, but do it in
a way that works for me. Soyou're not gonna see me on
lives, pretty much, ever. Idon't think. I think I've done
one, I think I've done one live.
Kristen Doyle (18:20):
Same. I think I've done one.
Nicole Kepic (18:23):
I will do some video over stories every once in
a while, like I'm not afraid todo that, but it's not happening
all the time. I've kind of babytoed into reels. But basically,
I'm just choosing to do it on myown terms. I'm not following a
certain schedule or trend. I'mjust doing it in a way that
suits me and my energy.
Kristen Doyle (18:42):
I want to go back to what you said about email for
a second, because I think youshared such a great tip, and you
just breezed right over it likeit was nothing. You said that
when you write emails, you sitdown and you're writing it like
you're talking to just oneperson. And I think that is such
an important tip that so manypeople forget about because the
(19:04):
goal of our email is, like yousaid, to build relationships and
community with those people thatare on your list.
And if you're always justwriting it like it's a
newsletter, blast to whoeverfeels like reading today, you're
not going to do that in the sameway. And I know when I started
writing more personal emails,and I guess I am kind of writing
(19:25):
them to one person, that reallyhelped a) make the emails a lot
easier to write, because I feellike I'm just talking to a
friend, I'm just talking tosomebody, and B) it has really
helped me build some connectionswith my audience too, because
that's such a great strategy.
And I know a lot of my audiencestruggles with what to write and
(19:45):
how to write their emails. SoI'm just going to tell everyone
get on Nicole's email list andwatch how she writes emails,
because they are amazing. And Ido always feel like you're
talking straight to me.
Unknown (19:57):
Thank you. Yeah, I guess I did just breeze through
that, but yeah, it certainlyimpacts the language you're
using when you're thinking ofwriting to just one person.
Because if you're picturingsitting at a you know, over
coffee with a friend, the waythe words you you choose or say
to that friend are going to bedifferent than if you know 10
people in a boardroom aresitting across from you. So it
(20:17):
definitely impacts your wordchoice.
Kristen Doyle (20:20):
Yeah for sure.
You know, as popular as emailmarketing has gotten, as full as
our inboxes have gotten. I knowwe are all getting seven emails
a day from Old Navy or Bed Bathand Beyond or whoever, but to be
that person who writes like youwere talking specifically to
someone so that they feel likethey have a connection with you,
and they start to reply back.
(20:41):
And you build those, thoseconnections with people, that
really is how you stand out in avery crowded inbox.
Unknown (20:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So they will start to see your name
in their inbox and think, okay,no matter what they're talking
about, I want to open this emailbecause I'm like this person,
you know, the whole know, likeand trust factor. They already
have such good rapport with youthat they want to open your
emails, even if their inbox issuper cluttered.
Kristen Doyle (21:06):
And even if you think you already know what the
email is about. Yeah, I openedyour book launch email
yesterday, even though I knew Iknow the name, I have the book
right here.
Unknown (21:16):
There she is.
Kristen Doyle (21:17):
Right here, sitting by my desk, and it's
place of honor, where I broughtit just for this episode,
because it has been sitting bymy couch because I don't read in
my office.
Unknown (21:27):
Yes, you have to get comfortable when you're reading
Kristen Doyle (21:29):
Right. But I did bring it in here to record, just
in case I needed it orsomething. So but, yeah, I saw
your launch email come throughyesterday, and I knew you were,
you were announcing that thebook was available, and I've
already bought mine, so I didn'tneed that email, but I wanted to
see what you said about it. Iwas excited, because I like to
read your emails. And it justgoes to show, when you build
(21:51):
that relationship with people,they'll open your emails, even
if they don't. I mean, I knewfrom the subject that email
wasn't really for me today,because I already have the book,
right? But I still wanted toread it.
Nicole Kepic (22:03):
You wanted to share in the joy and excitement
of my launch, my lazy launch, myeasy, lazy launch.
Kristen Doyle (22:10):
I love it. I love the lazy launch. And I think you
know, as an introvert, maybethat's one of your launch
strategies, is to do a quieterlaunch. It's not a lazy launch.
It's just a quieter launch. Itis a less in your face launch,
yeah.
Nicole Kepic (22:25):
I mean, I really just, for the launch. I really
just focused on email. I had await list of an email wait list
of people who have beenfollowing along since last year.
So about six or eight monthsago, they've been following me
behind the scenes. So I hadthose people, then they had,
then I had my greater emaillist, and then, of course,
social media. But it's funny,yesterday the day of my launch,
(22:48):
so went live with my videos andreels, and then it was like I
was just replying to commentsall day, because so many people,
I honestly didn't expect it, somany people were sharing and
commenting and just so excited.
And at the end of the day, Isaid to my husband, I didn't do
much today, except for reply tosocial media comments, but I
felt exhausted. I don't knowwhy. Maybe it was just the
(23:08):
anticipation, too, of the bookfinally coming out.
Kristen Doyle (23:13):
I'm sure. I mean that launch day for whatever
you're launching, for me isalways really exhausting, too. I
think a lot of it is just likeemotional, it's it's
anticipation and hoping it goeswell.
Nicole Kepic (23:27):
Wll the people like it? Yes, all the, all the
thoughts running through yourhead.
Kristen Doyle (23:31):
So I know you've been doing email, one of your
other strategies is what we'redoing right now, right? You've
been going on a little bit of apodcast tour, lots of podcast
recordings. What about podcastworks for you as an introvert?
Nicole Kepic (23:44):
I love podcast guesting because I love the one
to one conversations again, theone to one I also like that
there's not a ton of prep, like,I'll just be honest, I like that
part about it, because,especially if you're talking
about something you'recomfortable with, there's not a
ton of prep.
Although, of course, I will diveinto the host and their world
and their business. Of course, Idon't want to come unprepared,
(24:06):
but I like that it's pretty muchjust show up as you are have a
genuine, authentic conversation,versus it being all scripted.
And then, yeah, then it's done.
And then I like the evergreenaspect of it, too. So once this
podcast is out in the world. Whoknows? Somebody might listen to
it three months down the line,six months down the line, so I'm
(24:26):
speaking of benefits in thesense that if people are
listening, it's helpful for themtoo, to go on podcast too, just
to share their message and sharetheir business.
Kristen Doyle (24:34):
Yeah, it is. I absolutely love podcasting. I
know I've not made that asecret. I had this podcast...how
(24:55):
long have I had this podcastnow? Two and a half years. It's
been a long time. We're onEpisode 130 something right now.
136 maybe. So it has been a longtime, and for me, as an
introvert, it reallyjust jot down an outline to keep
me on track, and then it canjust be a conversation.
(25:17):
Or just me talking to thecamera, because I do record
video and audio, talking to thecamera and imagining there's a
person that I'm talking to onthe other side. And it just
feels so like there's so muchless pressure than things like
live videos, and you know someof those other ways to create
(25:37):
content and to get out there andserve your audience and grow
your audience. So I lovepodcasting, and I think podcast
guesting is such a great way forpeople in our audience, maybe
who are wanting to grow theiraudience, reach out to other
people. It's such a great way todo that in a way that, like you
said, feels low pressure.
Nicole Kepic (25:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think sometimes introvertswill think, Well, even that
feels scary, because I thinkback to the first podcast
guesting I did, and my firstthought was to say no to the
invitation. I was like, Nope,not gonna happen. I don't want
to do it feels too scary. Whatif I can't think of what to say?
What if my voice sounds weird?
And then I just convinced myselfjust give it a try. And that's
(26:20):
that's a theme in my book, too.
Yes, I'm saying just embraceyour introversion. You don't
have to change who you are, butthere is also an element of just
a bit of your comfort zone. Justtry the hard things at least
once, because if you don't likethem, you don't have to do them
again, but at least try. Sopodcast guesting for me a few
years ago was something thatscared me, and I thought, well,
(26:40):
I'm going to try it, and here Iam now. I love it. It's it feels
so nice.
Kristen Doyle (26:44):
It is definitely one of those things that gets a
lot easier with practice, too.
One of my big fears when I firststarted is I'm not going to I
don't like the way my voicesounds on on audio, and so
everyone's going to hate it, orI'm going to talk too fast or
too slow or too whatever. Butyou know, it just the it's one
of those things that the moreyou do it, the easier it gets.
Nicole Kepic (27:09):
For sure. And I also think we have a mutual
friend, Laura Carmark. I'm goingto shout her out. She is always
saying, just be human. It'sokay. There's no such thing as
perfection, or don't strive forperfection. So if you're on a
podcast and you stumble overyour words, so what? It shows
you're human, it doesn't matter.
It sounds like a realconversation, yes, and really
horrible mistakes can be editedout, although I've never asked
(27:30):
somebody to edit stuff out.
Hopefully this is not the casewhere it's gonna happen the
first time.
Kristen Doyle (27:36):
I mean, I edit lots of, well, I don't, but my
I was just talking to a friend.
We just had Super Bowl week orwonderful podcast manager edits
lots of things out of mine whenI get halfway through a sentence
and forget what I was saying andweekend, and I was talking to a
friend about commercials, andhave to stop and think for a
minute and then start over. Butaside from, you know, we don't,
obviously no one wants to listenshe pointed out, I guess I
wasn't watching quite as closeto me be quiet and think about
what I was trying to say a fewas she was, but she felt like so
(27:56):
many of the commercials were AI.
minutes ago. But aside fromthings like that, I think
letting those, some of thoselittle stumblings over words,
letting those just be in thepodcast, is not a bad thing. It
lets people know you're human.
It lets people know that this isAnd, you know, looking back, I
can kind she named a few, and Ia real conversation.
(28:31):
was like, Oh yeah, that probablywas AI. You're right, because
they just seemed a little off, alittle too perfect, a little too
whatever.
And in this world where, I mean,you can make an AI video of
yourself, you can clone yourvoice and make an AI bot sound
like you and things. So in thisworld where that is a
(28:52):
possibility, I think mistakeslet people know that you're a
real person. This is really you.
This is not some AI bot.
Nicole Kepic (29:00):
Yeah, that is so refreshing. I didn't notice that
about the commercials. Mind you,I was just kind of in and out. I
was not sitting down. I don'twatch football, let's be honest.
Yeah. So I didn't notice that,but it doesn't surprise me. It's
It's kind of scary what AI cando now.
Kristen Doyle (29:15):
It really is. So let's talk about one other thing
that I think my audience, forsure, struggles with, and that
is how to find a way to feelauthentic when you're selling
things, whether you're sellingproducts or services. It's
something I've had to workthrough a lot myself, and you
(29:36):
probably wouldn't say this aboutyourself, but I feel like you do
this so effortlessly. It justseems so authentic and so normal
and so not pushy. So what kindof tips can you share for how to
sell without being like I saidpushy or inauthentic?
Nicole Kepic (29:55):
Oh wow. It really pains me to use this cliche. I
almost don't want to. But theyou know, the cliche, selling is
serving. You see, I'm cringingas I'm saying this, but I know,
but it is so true to reframe thethought that, okay, I'm
bothering people by selling. I'mtaking their money. I'm doing
them a disservice. When youreframe those thoughts to I'm
(30:16):
serving my audience, I see thatthey have a problem and I have a
solution that can help. Whywouldn't I offer up that
solution?
That's really all it is in mymind. So then it's Yeah, and and
it's also, it's also havingconfidence too, in what you're
offering. Because if you go inthere, whether it's on a sales
call or in your copy or inanother platform, if you go in
(30:37):
really hesitant about whatyou're offering, if you don't
feel confident in what you'reoffering, then why would your
readers or the person on theother end of the sales call? So
it's being confident withoutbeing pushy and abrasive, and
you need this, and this is goingto change your life, or else. So
it's that fine line.
Kristen Doyle (30:57):
Yeah, it really is, and it's a big mindset shift
to think of selling as serving.
And I know, yes, it is socliche, but I think you said
this in your book too. Clichesare cliches for a reason.
They're true. It is cliche, butwhen you really believe in your
product or your service thatyou're selling, then yeah, it is
gonna make a difference forpeople. It will make their life
(31:21):
better. Even if you're sellingcrochet lessons, if they want to
crochet, they will be happy whenthey finish, because they now
learned how to do the thing theywanted to learn.
You know, it doesn't always haveto be a huge like change the
whole trajectory of your life,kind of transformation, but if
you really believe that theproduct or the service or the
(31:43):
course, whatever it is thatyou're selling, is going to make
a difference for people, thenyou are serving when you sell.
That's something I've really hadto work through and lean into,
like, Okay, I am making adifference for people with these
things that I offer. So how canI talk about them and convey
that like you said, confidently?
Nicole Kepic (32:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you also have to think, ifyou don't present your solution,
somebody else will. So they'renot going to get it from you,
they're going to go to yourcompetitors and get it. So if
you have the solution, why nothave them get it from you, and
then you can be the personhelping them with their problem.
Kristen Doyle (32:21):
I love that. All right. Before we wrap up, what
is kind of one last piece ofadvice, one takeaway that you
would give to business owners,maybe who are feeling pressure
to show up differently in a waythat doesn't feel right for them
online. You know, there's peoplewho maybe are more introverted,
like you and I are, but theythink they need to be super
(32:43):
loud, and I don't know, dance onreels or whatever, in order to
be successful. What's one pieceof advice that you would give
them?
Nicole Kepic (32:51):
Yeah, I mean, it really goes back to just
embracing your introversion andlooking at it as a gift, not as
a hindrance, not as somethingthat's setting you back and oh,
I wish I wasn't an introvert,because if not, I could be so
much more successful. Or if Iwas an extrovert, I could be
this or this. So it's reallyjust again, just loving the
(33:12):
person you are, as cheesy as itsounds, but owning your
introversion, introversion,embracing it, and just kind of
staying in your lane.
Stop comparing yourself to otherpeople out there. It's the whole
comparisonitis thing, right? Ifyou go down this dark hole of
looking at everybody else'ssocial media feeds or websites
or hopping on their email listto check out what they're doing,
(33:35):
is just gonna, you know, takeyou down this long and dark
spiral. So as cheesy as itsounds, yeah, just embracing
your introversion.
Kristen Doyle (33:42):
Yet another cliche. Comparison is the thief
of joy.
Nicole Kepic (33:46):
I should have warned you, I'm a pretty cheesy
person.
Kristen Doyle (33:51):
I love that about you. But it's so true. We just,
you know, start embracing it andseeing it as a strength, not a
weakness, and leaning into it asa strength.
Nicole Kepic (34:02):
Yeah, and to that point again, saying yes to
things versus saying no I can'tbecause I'm an introvert. Stop
using it as an excuse, basicallybecause I think some people I
know I used to do that, so I'mjust speaking for myself, but
just setting those excuses asideand be willing to try things
that you think are extrovertedactivities. But again, they're
not extroverted activities. Youjust might approach them
(34:23):
differently.
Kristen Doyle (34:25):
Exactly. I love that. Well, tell everyone like
we just said, your book, Don'tAsk Me to Be Loud just launched
yesterday, officially. Telleveryone where they can find it.
Nicole Kepic (34:39):
Yeah, they can go to my website,
Nicolekepic.com/book, and it isthere for you to check out.
Yeah, this is exciting. I feellike it has been a long time
coming. I've wanted to write abook for years, like since I was
20. It might not have been abusiness book back then, but,
yeah, that's what it's markedinto. So this feels like a dream
come true. Literally. To writethis book. Again, cheese factor
(35:01):
here.
Kristen Doyle (35:04):
I know, and it has just been so fun to watch
this take shape from kind of agoal that I don't know correct
me if I'm wrong. It almostseemed like several years ago,
when you first said I want towrite a book, it was like that
was the end of the whole goal. Iwant to write a book, not sure
what it's going to be about yet,not sure what I'm going to do
it. I just want to write a book.
Nicole Kepic (35:26):
I mean, I probably shouldn't admit it, but part of
my motivation was a bit ofjealousy, because I would see
other business owners who werenot writers writing a book, and
then it would make me think, butwait a second, they're not
writers, and they're writing abook. And then it's almost like
I felt jealous and frustratedand a little bit mad, and then I
would realize I was just mad atmyself because they were doing
(35:47):
the thing, they were setting thegoal, and they were doing it,
and I wasn't I was just talkingabout writing a book, and I was
procrastinating. So finally Iwas like, okay, don't be mad at
them. Do it yourself, you know,and make it happen. So yeah, it
was really just an effort instarting it and being
consistent.
Kristen Doyle (36:04):
Sometimes a little external pressure is good
for us. And I would say, I knowthe subtitle of your book says,
what is it? Hold on. I have tolook so I get it exactly right.
The introverted Girls Guide toOnline Business. I know
introvert is in the title, and Iknow girl is in the title. I
would argue this is, this is foranybody who wants to learn about
(36:27):
online business.
There are so many just reallygood takeaways. And full
disclosure, I'm not quitefinished yet. I am working my
way through. I'm a very slow nonfiction reader. I read fiction
books really fast, but I thinkthat's because I kind of skim
sometimes, and with non fiction,I really want to pay attention,
so I'm I'm a slower non fictionreader, but so many good
(36:50):
takeaways, so many about so manydifferent aspects of our
businesses. From copywriting,obviously, to branding to
marketing to money mindset. Justso many good takeaways in here.
I am absolutely loving your bookso far.
Nicole Kepic (37:09):
Well thank you.
Yeah. It's funny, my husband wasreading it. He has not finished
the book, so you're probablyahead of him, which I mean I
should give him crap for. And hesaid about a couple chapters in,
he was like, Well, I know thisis for women and introverts. But
he said the same thing. There'slots of information in here that
could be for everyone. And Isaid, I know, I know. I just, I
just wanted to, you know, caterto my introvert people. But of
(37:31):
course, as with niching in yourbusiness, there are always going
to be people on the outside ofthat niche who are still
attracted to it and can stillbenefit from it.
Kristen Doyle (37:41):
Exactly, which you talk about in the chapter...
Nicole Kepic (37:44):
Exactly Nice segue. Yeah.
Kristen Doyle (37:47):
I mean, it is, you know, it's just like we were
talking about with emails. Whenyou talk to one specific person,
the content that you're writinggets so much better, and it can
still apply to other people whoaren't that specific person too.
Well. Thank you so so much forbeing here. Always so fun to
chat with you, and I am just soexcited for you, and so proud of
(38:10):
you for finishing this projectand launching your book.
Nicole Kepic (38:14):
Thank you. You have been so supportive along
the way. So I'm so grateful forthat and for having me back
here.
Kristen Doyle (38:20):
Anytime friend, anytime.
You know what I love most aboutwhat Nicole shared with us
today? She really gave uspermission to show up as exactly
who you are in your business. Myhope is that you're walking away
with some fresh perspectives onhow being an introvert can
actually be a superpower in yourbusiness, and some practical
strategies for marketing andselling in ways that feel
(38:43):
natural to you.
I'm just gonna say it, if youare an online business owner,
which I'm betting you are, ifyou're listening to this show,
then you need to grab Nicole'sbook - Don't Ask Me to Be Loud.
I'm working my way through itright now. I'm almost finished,
and there have just been so manygreat takeaways that I'll be
(39:04):
using in my own business, and Iknow you'll want to use them in
yours too.
So head to Nicolekepik.com/bookto get your copy. That is NOT an
affiliate link, even though I dohave one, I just really believe
that this book is one that canmake a difference for you and
your business. And if you wantto connect with her on
Instagram, you can find her at@nkcopywriting. You can find all
(39:27):
the links in the show notes fortoday's episode at
Kristendoyle.co/episode136.
Thanks for tuning in, and I'llcatch you next time.
Are you an introvert feeling like if you
want to succeed in yourbusiness, you'll have to force
yourself to be loud and get outthere more? Or maybe you're
somewhere in the middle, likeme, an ambivert, but you're
still struggling with showing upin ways that feel authentic to
who you are. In today's episode,I am sitting down with my friend
(00:23):
Nicole Kepic to talk about howrunning a business is a little
different as an introvert.
Nicole's been on the showbefore, teaching us all about
copywriting, but today I get tointroduce her as the author of
her very first book, Don't Askme to be Loud, the Introverted
Girls Guide to Online Business.
Nicole is a sales pagecopywriter with 20 years of
(00:47):
experience. She wrote for somemajor companies whose names you
would definitely recognizebefore she decided to become an
entrepreneur, and now she helpsfemale business owners write
copy that connects and convertswithout feeling pushy or
inauthentic.
We talk all about how toleverage your natural strengths
(01:11):
as an introvert, marketingstrategies that don't drain your
energy, and how to sell yourproducts in a way that really
feels genuine to you. And Nicolealso shared a little bit of her
journey of writing this book andhow she's navigating her own
book launch as an introvert.
Let's get to it.
(01:32):
Are you a digital product orcourse creator, selling on
platforms like teachers payteachers, Etsy or your own
website? Ready to grow yourbusiness, but not into the kind
of constant hustle that leadsstraight to burnout? Then you're
in the right place.
Welcome to The Savvy Seller. I'mKristen Doyle, and I'm here to
give you no fluff, tools andstrategies that move the needle
(01:55):
for your business withoutburning you out in the process.
Things like SEO, no stressmarketing, email list building,
automation, and so much more.
Let's get started y'all.
Today's episode is super fun forme, because I have had the
privilege of standing on thesidelines and watching from when
(02:21):
this book was just kind of anidea all the way through
launching it now. Nicole,welcome, welcome. I'm so excited
to have this conversation withyou today
Nicole Kepic (02:32):
Thank you, Kristen. Thank you for having me
back. I feel like I could reallyget used to this repeat guest
status.
Kristen Doyle (02:39):
It's fun, isn't it?
Nicole Kepic (02:40):
It is.
Kristen Doyle (02:41):
It makes the the second and the third interviews
feel so much, I don't know,easier.
Nicole Kepic (02:46):
Absolutely.
Kristen Doyle (02:48):
So I remember when you first started talking
about writing a book and youwere trying to figure out what
you wanted to write about. Whatkind of made you settle on this
specific topic?
Nicole Kepic (03:02):
Oh, wow, yeah, it was definitely an evolution. It
was a seed of an idea beforethat grew into something
different and something bigger.
So, yeah, kind of a three partstage. So in the beginning, the
first part, I thought, Okay, I'mgonna write a book about
copywriting. It just makessense. I'm a copywriter. It's
what I do, and it would fit soperfectly into my business
funnel.
But then the more I thoughtabout that, the thought of
(03:24):
writing 300 pages just oncopywriting was like, oh, a bit
intense, and also I thoughtmight be a bit boring. So for
now, I scratched that idea. Andthen the next stage was thinking
I wanted it to be a bit moreholistic, a bit more
encompassing of all the thingsthat as business owners, we need
to learn and do and master onthe daily.
(03:47):
So yes, copywriting is one ofthe things it's so important to
have your you know, the brightmessaging for your audience, but
I wanted it to be more about themarketing, the branding, the
visibility, the pricing andselling and the mindset stuff
that goes along with all that.
So basically, like I said, moreencompassing, more holistic of
the business experience. Andthen finally, I was like, Okay,
(04:10):
I've got this idea for abusiness book, a well rounded
business book, but what's myunique angle? What's my What's
the thing that's going to makeit different from everything
else? And then it just hit me,why not write through the lens
of an introvert? Since, hello,I'm an introvert. I am certainly
not this loud, bold extrovert.
And I thought, why not writethrough the lens of an introvert
for introverts? Becausecertainly, I mean, everyone has
(04:33):
challenges when it comes torunning a business, but there's
certain challenges that are,let's say, more, I don't know
more difficult, just differentas an introvert, running an
online business in this busy,loud space.
Kristen Doyle (04:46):
Yeah, it is, for sure. And I know you know this
because we've talked about itbefore, but for everyone else
listening, I am one of thosepeople, whenever I take the
introvert, extrovert quizzes, Ialways score right around 50/50,
and it's always just skewed alittle bit more to the introvert
side than it is to the extrovertside. But I am always like 48/52
(05:10):
47/53 just right there in themiddle, which I guess makes me
an ambivert, but you're prettysolid introvert, right?
Nicole Kepic (05:19):
I think so. And you know what I mean? I will
say, I struggle to call myselfan introvert a while, because
when most people talk aboutintroversion, it's almost like
there's this negativeconnotation to it, like, Oh,
you're an introvert. You don'tlike people, or you're not good
with people, or you're notsocial. And I'm like, what?
Wait. I am social. I lovepeople. I love
Kristen Doyle (05:38):
like, you're fun.
Nicole Kepic (05:41):
Thank you. Thank you. I wouldn't call myself fun,
but thank you for calling mefun. Yeah, so I just felt like,
why would I want to call myselfan introvert if that's what
everybody is attaching to theword introvert. But finally, I
let those, you know, those mythsgo and then just kind of
embraced my introversion, or atleast. You know, it's a journey
of still embracing it. But yeah,it's like, I want to defend the
(06:03):
honor of introverts and say youcan still love people, you can
still go to social events andenjoy them, be around lots of
people, and still be anintrovert.
Kristen Doyle (06:12):
Yeah and I think it's so good to recognize and
just embrace that this is who weare, this is how we're made, and
it's so much more as as I havebeen learning over the years,
learning more about introversionand extroversion. It's so much
more about your energy than whatyou like or personality traits
or anything.
(06:33):
And the more I've learned that,the more I can see, especially
as somebody who falls kind of inthe middle, I can see myself
getting to that point of like,of low energy from all the
social stuff and needing to beby myself for a little bit and
have some quiet time. And itjust it makes so many things
easier when you recognize it andyou understand it.
Unknown (06:55):
Yeah, absolutely, you give yourself that space to just
replenish your energy andrejuvenate. I was talking to
somebody the other day, and Ikind of liked how they phrased
it. They said they don't reallylike saying there are activities
that are introvert activitiesand activities that are
extrovert activities, they'rethe same activities, but we just
might approach them differently.
Nicole Kepic (07:13):
So if I'm speaking or, you know, doing a
presentation or going to anevent, I'm happy to do that, but
I might just prepare for itdifferently or afterwards. Yes,
I might need, like, a two hournap. So yeah, it's just certain
activities are not closed off tointroverts or extroverts. You
just approach them differentlyand then recoup differently.
Kristen Doyle (07:33):
It's one of the big reasons when I go to, like,
conferences and things, I willusually either book a room
alone, or if I have a roommate,it's somebody I have known for a
long time who gets me andunderstands if I just need to
lay in bed and read a book andnot speak for a few hours.
Unknown (07:50):
That is so true. I mean, we've done a few
masterminds together, and Ithink it was only the last one
that I had a room by myself, andI thought, Ah, so this is what
it's about. This is why Kristenhas been doing it because, yeah,
you're peopling all weekend forabout four days, and then it's
just nice to have your own spacewhen you know all the peopleing
is done.
Kristen Doyle (08:07):
Yeah, it's just good to have that space. The
other thing I have learned thatI've done the last two times
I've gone out of town is,instead of the event ending and
I hop on a plane and I'mimmediately back home with my
family, the last two timesbecause of flights. I really
didn't do it on purpose, butbecause of what flights were
available, I have spent a nightin a hotel and gotten up and
(08:29):
left early the next morning tocome home, and that really just
gave me the time to decompress,because I was the first one
anyway. I was by myself. Thislast one, I was with friends. We
had fun. There was nodecompressing.
But I could tell between the twohow helpful it was for me to
have that like, I don't know,six or seven hours of awake time
(08:54):
at the hotel, just quiet, alone,decompressing a little bit, and
then that flight home, and I wasready to hit the ground running
with my family once I got home,it was really nice.
Nicole Kepic (09:05):
That does sound blissful, and it's funny I think
of I don't have the same setup,but my family knows my husband
and son know if I'm travelingand I come home, say I arrive
home around 4:30/5 (09:15):
00, there's not going to be the question,
Mom, what's for dinner. Like,please have dinner made. I am
not just jumping back intofamily life right away, like,
please, at least have dinnermade.
Kristen Doyle (09:27):
I need a little time. Oh, and you're at a
different phase too, with yourson being a lot older than my
kids are right now, I'm still inthe like, they come and attack
me. Well, the little one does.
The middle schooler, not somuch. He's too cool for that.
Last time I came home, he toldme he didn't miss me so that was
fun.
Unknown (09:45):
Ouch. Dagger to the heart. Thanks.
Kristen Doyle (09:49):
He didn't mean it.
It's just, it turns out we havedifferent definitions of the
word 'miss'. What he means is hewasn't like sad all weekend.
Nicole Kepic (09:57):
Okay, well, that's okay.
Kristen Doyle (09:58):
Oh, okay. Well, you're a well adjusted kid who
can handle me being away. That'sgood. That's a win for me. Well,
so we you and I've talked beforeabout how being introverted can
actually be good for us asbusiness owners, and can really
help us to connect with ouraudiences and some other things.
(10:19):
Can you share a little bit aboutsome of the ways you found
introversion to almost be like asuperpower in your business.
Unknown (10:26):
Yeah, I love that you say it that way, that you
phrased it that way, because sooften we think it's a hindrance.
We think I'm an introvert, so Ican't be good at sales, or I'm
an introvert. I can't ever dovideo. And I think sometimes we
almost use it as an excuse,right? So superpower, I love
that.
Nicole Kepic (10:42):
I personally think, like this is a general
sweep, you know, a sweepinggeneralization, but I think
introverts are really goodlisteners and very empathetic,
which, of course, comes inreally handy when we're
understanding and listening toour audiences. So we're almost
letting them be the star of theshow, like we're putting
ourselves in the back seat,saying, hey, it's all about you.
We're listening to their needsand their wants, their desires,
(11:05):
and then in turn, we're creatingproducts and solutions or
services that meet those needsbetter. So that listening is so
important.
I also think that, I mean, thisis sounds weird to say, but I
also think introverts can bereally great leaders, but maybe
not. You know, I'm thinking notin the traditional sense. When I
think of leader, I think of backwhen I was in corporate, I was a
(11:27):
senior copywriter most of mycareer, but there are a couple
times where I got promoted tomarketing manager.
And it was because my bosseswanted to promote me and move me
up the ladder. But I did notenjoy it, because all of a
sudden, not only was I notwriting, which I love to do, but
I was managing a team of peopleand having to have uncomfortable
conversations, like, Oh, youcame in late today. You need to
(11:49):
stop doing that.
And it's like I just wanted tobe their best friends in
business, and so it was just notthe kind of leader I wanted to
be. But I think there's also away of looking at like, thought
leadership, so introverts canmake really great leaders in the
thought leadership sense. Sosharing your expertise, making
an impact, and, you know,leading in that sense.
Kristen Doyle (12:11):
Yeah, you know, when I was reading that story in
your book, it occurred to methat I really hate that part of
managing a team. It's somethingI have always struggled with.
You've gotten some of my Voxermessages where I didn't know how
to handle basically aconfrontation that I needed to
have with somebody on my team,and not even that it was a
(12:34):
difficult or a bigconfrontation. But having to
correct people never feels goodto me.
I can do it as a mom all daylong, and my husband would
probably die. He'd say I do itas a wife too. But when it comes
to other people, that's not easyfor me, and I never really tied
that into maybe it being alittle bit of an introvert
(12:56):
thing.
Unknown (12:57):
Yeah, it's so uncomfortable. I just yeah, I
didn't like it, because here Iwas the person going to lunch
with these people, and then allof a sudden I get promoted. It's
like, oh, you're their boss. Itjust changed the dynamic. And
yeah, it just was not, not therole I wanted.
Kristen Doyle (13:10):
For sure. But I love that you talked about being
a leader who can lead with thatquiet confidence. It doesn't
always have to be big and loudand in your face.
Unknown (13:20):
No. And I think if you're serving clients or
customers, which most of us are,that introversion, that
calmness, that peacefulness, Iguess, can put your clients at
peace too and and give themconfidence that they've made the
right investment, the rightdecision to work with you, so
they feel good with theirinvestment as well.
Kristen Doyle (13:37):
Yeah, you know, one of the things actually, that
I have always been told bypeople is that I tend to be that
person when something feelschaotic in our entrepreneur
circles, I tend to be that voiceof calm and reason, and again, I
just never really put two andtwo together.
Nicole Kepic (13:54):
I can attest to that, because at least in our
Voxer chain, you're the personwho's like, it's fine, it's
gonna be fine. That's the lightI think of. So yes, you are the
calm choice of reason in ourboxer chain.
Kristen Doyle (14:06):
Well thank you.
So I know one of the things thatat least I struggle with, and I
know probably a lot of listenersdo too as introverts, is putting
them, putting yourself out thereto market your products. And
maybe our listeners who aren'tintroverts struggle with the
same thing. What kind ofexperience have you had with
doing the marketing things,building visibility for your
(14:28):
business as an introvertspecifically?
Nicole Kepic (14:32):
I mean, I struggled at first, in the sense
that when, again, when I was incorporate, the last place I
worked at, just for context, Iwas at a creative agency. So it
was me and a bunch of designersaccount managers. I was the only
copywriter on staff. So anyproject that came in from any of
our clients, our internationalclients, I got to write the
copy. I didn't have to fight forattention. I didn't have to
(14:54):
fight for projects. Now that Ithink of it, it was a pretty
sweet gig.
Kristen Doyle (14:57):
I was gonna say, it sounds pretty great!
Nicole Kepic (14:59):
It does, it was great. When I, you know, quit
corporate, went for my ownbusiness online, then it's like,
Oh, wow. I am not the only,like, I knew this, of course,
but you really see that thereare so many people in your
space. So I think I worried, howam I going to stand out? How am
I going to stand out whenthere's so many big, bold
(15:19):
personalities out there, and howis that going to affect my
marketing? Am I going to have todo marketing activities that
just are not me? Am I going tohave to pretend to be somebody
I'm not?
Kristen Doyle (15:29):
Am I going to have to dance on TikTok? Please
don't make me dance on TikTok.
Unknown (15:33):
I'm not even on TikTok.
Let's be real. My teenage sonwould be mortified.
Kristen Doyle (15:39):
I'm only on BookTok. I just watch.
Nicole Kepic (15:44):
Yeah, so I just for marketing to answer your
question. I just really leanedinto what feels authentic, like
I'm not going to pretend to besomebody I'm not. And then when
I'm choosing marketingactivities, it sounds so simple,
but I really just lean intowhat's easy for me and what's
enjoyable. And it doesn't mean Iwon't try hard things. You know?
I will, of course, get out of mycomfort zone and try different
(16:05):
things, because there's so muchpride and accomplishment that
comes with that when you whenyou master something or do
something that you thought youcouldn't do or were afraid to
do. But overall, what comes easyto me and what do I enjoy doing?
Because if you don't enjoy doinga certain activity like it's
just gonna it's just gonna makeyou feel miserable. And there's
so many activities to choose, sowhy choose ones that don't let
(16:28):
you up inside?
Kristen Doyle (16:30):
Right now you're right in the middle of launch
mode as we're recording yourofficial book launch day was
yesterday. Congratulations. Soyou're in the middle of launch
mode, which is pretty intensefor everybody, much less for
introverts. I know for me, whenI am in launch mode, I have that
(16:51):
energy for a while, andsometimes I feel like I hit a
wall and I can't keep going.
It's just an intense season withtons of marketing, which, you
know, like we said, that canfeel really hard for introverts.
So what are some of thosemarketing strategies you have
found that feel good for you,some that as an introvert, they
(17:13):
don't drain your energy and makeyou feel like you've hit that
wall and need to stop.
Nicole Kepic (17:18):
Yeah. I mean, for me, I really rely on email.
That's a big one for me, justbecause, like, it's very
introvert friendly when youthink of it, because you're just
sitting at your computer, you'rewriting an email one to one. I
mean, obviously the email isgoing to go to more than one
person, but you're writing it asif you're just talking to one
friend, so and you're not havingto do video and show up, you
know, 24/7 live.
(17:39):
So email is a big one for me.
And I've really built a strongcommunity over email. I find
that when I launched somethingnew, my email subscribers are
the first people to be like,Hey, this is awesome. I'm on
board. I also do social medialike, I know some people just
hate social media. I getfrustrated with it sometimes,
but I I do love Instagram in thesense that I've met so many
(18:00):
amazing friends, collaborators,just business friends on
Instagram, and even clients too.
So I just approach it like I'mgonna do Instagram, but do it in
a way that works for me. Soyou're not gonna see me on
lives, pretty much, ever. Idon't think. I think I've done
one, I think I've done one live.
Kristen Doyle (18:20):
Same. I think I've done one.
Nicole Kepic (18:23):
I will do some video over stories every once in
a while, like I'm not afraid todo that, but it's not happening
all the time. I've kind of babytoed into reels. But basically,
I'm just choosing to do it on myown terms. I'm not following a
certain schedule or trend. I'mjust doing it in a way that
suits me and my energy.
Kristen Doyle (18:42):
I want to go back to what you said about email for
a second, because I think youshared such a great tip, and you
just breezed right over it likeit was nothing. You said that
when you write emails, you sitdown and you're writing it like
you're talking to just oneperson. And I think that is such
an important tip that so manypeople forget about because the
(19:04):
goal of our email is, like yousaid, to build relationships and
community with those people thatare on your list.
And if you're always justwriting it like it's a
newsletter, blast to whoeverfeels like reading today, you're
not going to do that in the sameway. And I know when I started
writing more personal emails,and I guess I am kind of writing
(19:25):
them to one person, that reallyhelped a) make the emails a lot
easier to write, because I feellike I'm just talking to a
friend, I'm just talking tosomebody, and B) it has really
helped me build some connectionswith my audience too, because
that's such a great strategy.
And I know a lot of my audiencestruggles with what to write and
(19:45):
how to write their emails. SoI'm just going to tell everyone
get on Nicole's email list andwatch how she writes emails,
because they are amazing. And Ido always feel like you're
talking straight to me.
Unknown (19:57):
Thank you. Yeah, I guess I did just breeze through
that, but yeah, it certainlyimpacts the language you're
using when you're thinking ofwriting to just one person.
Because if you're picturingsitting at a you know, over
coffee with a friend, the waythe words you you choose or say
to that friend are going to bedifferent than if you know 10
people in a boardroom aresitting across from you. So it
(20:17):
definitely impacts your wordchoice.
Kristen Doyle (20:20):
Yeah for sure.
You know, as popular as emailmarketing has gotten, as full as
our inboxes have gotten. I knowwe are all getting seven emails
a day from Old Navy or Bed Bathand Beyond or whoever, but to be
that person who writes like youwere talking specifically to
someone so that they feel likethey have a connection with you,
and they start to reply back.
(20:41):
And you build those, thoseconnections with people, that
really is how you stand out in avery crowded inbox.
Unknown (20:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So they will start to see your name
in their inbox and think, okay,no matter what they're talking
about, I want to open this emailbecause I'm like this person,
you know, the whole know, likeand trust factor. They already
have such good rapport with youthat they want to open your
emails, even if their inbox issuper cluttered.
Kristen Doyle (21:06):
And even if you think you already know what the
email is about. Yeah, I openedyour book launch email
yesterday, even though I knew Iknow the name, I have the book
right here.
Unknown (21:16):
There she is.
Kristen Doyle (21:17):
Right here, sitting by my desk, and it's
place of honor, where I broughtit just for this episode,
because it has been sitting bymy couch because I don't read in
my office.
Unknown (21:27):
Yes, you have to get comfortable when you're reading
Kristen Doyle (21:29):
Right. But I did bring it in here to record, just
in case I needed it orsomething. So but, yeah, I saw
your launch email come throughyesterday, and I knew you were,
you were announcing that thebook was available, and I've
already bought mine, so I didn'tneed that email, but I wanted to
see what you said about it. Iwas excited, because I like to
read your emails. And it justgoes to show, when you build
(21:51):
that relationship with people,they'll open your emails, even
if they don't. I mean, I knewfrom the subject that email
wasn't really for me today,because I already have the book,
right? But I still wanted toread it.
Nicole Kepic (22:03):
You wanted to share in the joy and excitement
of my launch, my lazy launch, myeasy, lazy launch.
Kristen Doyle (22:10):
I love it. I love the lazy launch. And I think you
know, as an introvert, maybethat's one of your launch
strategies, is to do a quieterlaunch. It's not a lazy launch.
It's just a quieter launch. Itis a less in your face launch,
yeah.
Nicole Kepic (22:25):
I mean, I really just, for the launch. I really
just focused on email. I had await list of an email wait list
of people who have beenfollowing along since last year.
So about six or eight monthsago, they've been following me
behind the scenes. So I hadthose people, then they had,
then I had my greater emaillist, and then, of course,
social media. But it's funny,yesterday the day of my launch,
(22:48):
so went live with my videos andreels, and then it was like I
was just replying to commentsall day, because so many people,
I honestly didn't expect it, somany people were sharing and
commenting and just so excited.
And at the end of the day, Isaid to my husband, I didn't do
much today, except for reply tosocial media comments, but I
felt exhausted. I don't knowwhy. Maybe it was just the
(23:08):
anticipation, too, of the bookfinally coming out.
Kristen Doyle (23:13):
I'm sure. I mean that launch day for whatever
you're launching, for me isalways really exhausting, too. I
think a lot of it is just likeemotional, it's it's
anticipation and hoping it goeswell.
Nicole Kepic (23:27):
Wll the people like it? Yes, all the, all the
thoughts running through yourhead.
Kristen Doyle (23:31):
So I know you've been doing email, one of your
other strategies is what we'redoing right now, right? You've
been going on a little bit of apodcast tour, lots of podcast
recordings. What about podcastworks for you as an introvert?
Nicole Kepic (23:44):
I love podcast guesting because I love the one
to one conversations again, theone to one I also like that
there's not a ton of prep, like,I'll just be honest, I like that
part about it, because,especially if you're talking
about something you'recomfortable with, there's not a
ton of prep.
Although, of course, I will diveinto the host and their world
and their business. Of course, Idon't want to come unprepared,
(24:06):
but I like that it's pretty muchjust show up as you are have a
genuine, authentic conversation,versus it being all scripted.
And then, yeah, then it's done.
And then I like the evergreenaspect of it, too. So once this
podcast is out in the world. Whoknows? Somebody might listen to
it three months down the line,six months down the line, so I'm
(24:26):
speaking of benefits in thesense that if people are
listening, it's helpful for themtoo, to go on podcast too, just
to share their message and sharetheir business.
Kristen Doyle (24:34):
Yeah, it is. I absolutely love podcasting. I
know I've not made that asecret. I had this podcast...how
(24:55):
long have I had this podcastnow? Two and a half years. It's
been a long time. We're onEpisode 130 something right now.
136 maybe. So it has been a longtime, and for me, as an
introvert, it reallyjust jot down an outline to keep
me on track, and then it canjust be a conversation.
(25:17):
Or just me talking to thecamera, because I do record
video and audio, talking to thecamera and imagining there's a
person that I'm talking to onthe other side. And it just
feels so like there's so muchless pressure than things like
live videos, and you know someof those other ways to create
(25:37):
content and to get out there andserve your audience and grow
your audience. So I lovepodcasting, and I think podcast
guesting is such a great way forpeople in our audience, maybe
who are wanting to grow theiraudience, reach out to other
people. It's such a great way todo that in a way that, like you
said, feels low pressure.
Nicole Kepic (25:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think sometimes introvertswill think, Well, even that
feels scary, because I thinkback to the first podcast
guesting I did, and my firstthought was to say no to the
invitation. I was like, Nope,not gonna happen. I don't want
to do it feels too scary. Whatif I can't think of what to say?
What if my voice sounds weird?
And then I just convinced myselfjust give it a try. And that's
(26:20):
that's a theme in my book, too.
Yes, I'm saying just embraceyour introversion. You don't
have to change who you are, butthere is also an element of just
a bit of your comfort zone. Justtry the hard things at least
once, because if you don't likethem, you don't have to do them
again, but at least try. Sopodcast guesting for me a few
years ago was something thatscared me, and I thought, well,
(26:40):
I'm going to try it, and here Iam now. I love it. It's it feels
so nice.
Kristen Doyle (26:44):
It is definitely one of those things that gets a
lot easier with practice, too.
One of my big fears when I firststarted is I'm not going to I
don't like the way my voicesounds on on audio, and so
everyone's going to hate it, orI'm going to talk too fast or
too slow or too whatever. Butyou know, it just the it's one
of those things that the moreyou do it, the easier it gets.
Nicole Kepic (27:09):
For sure. And I also think we have a mutual
friend, Laura Carmark. I'm goingto shout her out. She is always
saying, just be human. It'sokay. There's no such thing as
perfection, or don't strive forperfection. So if you're on a
podcast and you stumble overyour words, so what? It shows
you're human, it doesn't matter.
It sounds like a realconversation, yes, and really
horrible mistakes can be editedout, although I've never asked
(27:30):
somebody to edit stuff out.
Hopefully this is not the casewhere it's gonna happen the
first time.
Kristen Doyle (27:36):
I mean, I edit lots of, well, I don't, but my
I was just talking to a friend.
We just had Super Bowl week orwonderful podcast manager edits
lots of things out of mine whenI get halfway through a sentence
and forget what I was saying andweekend, and I was talking to a
friend about commercials, andhave to stop and think for a
minute and then start over. Butaside from, you know, we don't,
obviously no one wants to listenshe pointed out, I guess I
wasn't watching quite as closeto me be quiet and think about
what I was trying to say a fewas she was, but she felt like so
(27:56):
many of the commercials were AI.
minutes ago. But aside fromthings like that, I think
letting those, some of thoselittle stumblings over words,
letting those just be in thepodcast, is not a bad thing. It
lets people know you're human.
It lets people know that this isAnd, you know, looking back, I
can kind she named a few, and Ia real conversation.
(28:31):
was like, Oh yeah, that probablywas AI. You're right, because
they just seemed a little off, alittle too perfect, a little too
whatever.
And in this world where, I mean,you can make an AI video of
yourself, you can clone yourvoice and make an AI bot sound
like you and things. So in thisworld where that is a
(28:52):
possibility, I think mistakeslet people know that you're a
real person. This is really you.
This is not some AI bot.
Nicole Kepic (29:00):
Yeah, that is so refreshing. I didn't notice that
about the commercials. Mind you,I was just kind of in and out. I
was not sitting down. I don'twatch football, let's be honest.
Yeah. So I didn't notice that,but it doesn't surprise me. It's
It's kind of scary what AI cando now.
Kristen Doyle (29:15):
It really is. So let's talk about one other thing
that I think my audience, forsure, struggles with, and that
is how to find a way to feelauthentic when you're selling
things, whether you're sellingproducts or services. It's
something I've had to workthrough a lot myself, and you
(29:36):
probably wouldn't say this aboutyourself, but I feel like you do
this so effortlessly. It justseems so authentic and so normal
and so not pushy. So what kindof tips can you share for how to
sell without being like I saidpushy or inauthentic?
Nicole Kepic (29:55):
Oh wow. It really pains me to use this cliche. I
almost don't want to. But theyou know, the cliche, selling is
serving. You see, I'm cringingas I'm saying this, but I know,
but it is so true to reframe thethought that, okay, I'm
bothering people by selling. I'mtaking their money. I'm doing
them a disservice. When youreframe those thoughts to I'm
(30:16):
serving my audience, I see thatthey have a problem and I have a
solution that can help. Whywouldn't I offer up that
solution?
That's really all it is in mymind. So then it's Yeah, and and
it's also, it's also havingconfidence too, in what you're
offering. Because if you go inthere, whether it's on a sales
call or in your copy or inanother platform, if you go in
(30:37):
really hesitant about whatyou're offering, if you don't
feel confident in what you'reoffering, then why would your
readers or the person on theother end of the sales call? So
it's being confident withoutbeing pushy and abrasive, and
you need this, and this is goingto change your life, or else. So
it's that fine line.
Kristen Doyle (30:57):
Yeah, it really is, and it's a big mindset shift
to think of selling as serving.
And I know, yes, it is socliche, but I think you said
this in your book too. Clichesare cliches for a reason.
They're true. It is cliche, butwhen you really believe in your
product or your service thatyou're selling, then yeah, it is
gonna make a difference forpeople. It will make their life
(31:21):
better. Even if you're sellingcrochet lessons, if they want to
crochet, they will be happy whenthey finish, because they now
learned how to do the thing theywanted to learn.
You know, it doesn't always haveto be a huge like change the
whole trajectory of your life,kind of transformation, but if
you really believe that theproduct or the service or the
(31:43):
course, whatever it is thatyou're selling, is going to make
a difference for people, thenyou are serving when you sell.
That's something I've really hadto work through and lean into,
like, Okay, I am making adifference for people with these
things that I offer. So how canI talk about them and convey
that like you said, confidently?
Nicole Kepic (32:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you also have to think, ifyou don't present your solution,
somebody else will. So they'renot going to get it from you,
they're going to go to yourcompetitors and get it. So if
you have the solution, why nothave them get it from you, and
then you can be the personhelping them with their problem.
Kristen Doyle (32:21):
I love that. All right. Before we wrap up, what
is kind of one last piece ofadvice, one takeaway that you
would give to business owners,maybe who are feeling pressure
to show up differently in a waythat doesn't feel right for them
online. You know, there's peoplewho maybe are more introverted,
like you and I are, but theythink they need to be super
(32:43):
loud, and I don't know, dance onreels or whatever, in order to
be successful. What's one pieceof advice that you would give
them?
Nicole Kepic (32:51):
Yeah, I mean, it really goes back to just
embracing your introversion andlooking at it as a gift, not as
a hindrance, not as somethingthat's setting you back and oh,
I wish I wasn't an introvert,because if not, I could be so
much more successful. Or if Iwas an extrovert, I could be
this or this. So it's reallyjust again, just loving the
(33:12):
person you are, as cheesy as itsounds, but owning your
introversion, introversion,embracing it, and just kind of
staying in your lane.
Stop comparing yourself to otherpeople out there. It's the whole
comparisonitis thing, right? Ifyou go down this dark hole of
looking at everybody else'ssocial media feeds or websites
or hopping on their email listto check out what they're doing,
(33:35):
is just gonna, you know, takeyou down this long and dark
spiral. So as cheesy as itsounds, yeah, just embracing
your introversion.
Kristen Doyle (33:42):
Yet another cliche. Comparison is the thief
of joy.
Nicole Kepic (33:46):
I should have warned you, I'm a pretty cheesy
person.
Kristen Doyle (33:51):
I love that about you. But it's so true. We just,
you know, start embracing it andseeing it as a strength, not a
weakness, and leaning into it asa strength.
Nicole Kepic (34:02):
Yeah, and to that point again, saying yes to
things versus saying no I can'tbecause I'm an introvert. Stop
using it as an excuse, basicallybecause I think some people I
know I used to do that, so I'mjust speaking for myself, but
just setting those excuses asideand be willing to try things
that you think are extrovertedactivities. But again, they're
not extroverted activities. Youjust might approach them
(34:23):
differently.
Kristen Doyle (34:25):
Exactly. I love that. Well, tell everyone like
we just said, your book, Don'tAsk Me to Be Loud just launched
yesterday, officially. Telleveryone where they can find it.
Nicole Kepic (34:39):
Yeah, they can go to my website,
Nicolekepic.com/book, and it isthere for you to check out.
Yeah, this is exciting. I feellike it has been a long time
coming. I've wanted to write abook for years, like since I was
20. It might not have been abusiness book back then, but,
yeah, that's what it's markedinto. So this feels like a dream
come true. Literally. To writethis book. Again, cheese factor
(35:01):
here.
Kristen Doyle (35:04):
I know, and it has just been so fun to watch
this take shape from kind of agoal that I don't know correct
me if I'm wrong. It almostseemed like several years ago,
when you first said I want towrite a book, it was like that
was the end of the whole goal. Iwant to write a book, not sure
what it's going to be about yet,not sure what I'm going to do
it. I just want to write a book.
Nicole Kepic (35:26):
I mean, I probably shouldn't admit it, but part of
my motivation was a bit ofjealousy, because I would see
other business owners who werenot writers writing a book, and
then it would make me think, butwait a second, they're not
writers, and they're writing abook. And then it's almost like
I felt jealous and frustratedand a little bit mad, and then I
would realize I was just mad atmyself because they were doing
(35:47):
the thing, they were setting thegoal, and they were doing it,
and I wasn't I was just talkingabout writing a book, and I was
procrastinating. So finally Iwas like, okay, don't be mad at
them. Do it yourself, you know,and make it happen. So yeah, it
was really just an effort instarting it and being
consistent.
Kristen Doyle (36:04):
Sometimes a little external pressure is good
for us. And I would say, I knowthe subtitle of your book says,
what is it? Hold on. I have tolook so I get it exactly right.
The introverted Girls Guide toOnline Business. I know
introvert is in the title, and Iknow girl is in the title. I
would argue this is, this is foranybody who wants to learn about
(36:27):
online business.
There are so many just reallygood takeaways. And full
disclosure, I'm not quitefinished yet. I am working my
way through. I'm a very slow nonfiction reader. I read fiction
books really fast, but I thinkthat's because I kind of skim
sometimes, and with non fiction,I really want to pay attention,
so I'm I'm a slower non fictionreader, but so many good
(36:50):
takeaways, so many about so manydifferent aspects of our
businesses. From copywriting,obviously, to branding to
marketing to money mindset. Justso many good takeaways in here.
I am absolutely loving your bookso far.
Nicole Kepic (37:09):
Well thank you.
Yeah. It's funny, my husband wasreading it. He has not finished
the book, so you're probablyahead of him, which I mean I
should give him crap for. And hesaid about a couple chapters in,
he was like, Well, I know thisis for women and introverts. But
he said the same thing. There'slots of information in here that
could be for everyone. And Isaid, I know, I know. I just, I
just wanted to, you know, caterto my introvert people. But of
(37:31):
course, as with niching in yourbusiness, there are always going
to be people on the outside ofthat niche who are still
attracted to it and can stillbenefit from it.
Kristen Doyle (37:41):
Exactly, which you talk about in the chapter...
Nicole Kepic (37:44):
Exactly Nice segue. Yeah.
Kristen Doyle (37:47):
I mean, it is, you know, it's just like we were
talking about with emails. Whenyou talk to one specific person,
the content that you're writinggets so much better, and it can
still apply to other people whoaren't that specific person too.
Well. Thank you so so much forbeing here. Always so fun to
chat with you, and I am just soexcited for you, and so proud of
(38:10):
you for finishing this projectand launching your book.
Nicole Kepic (38:14):
Thank you. You have been so supportive along
the way. So I'm so grateful forthat and for having me back
here.
Kristen Doyle (38:20):
Anytime friend, anytime.
You know what I love most aboutwhat Nicole shared with us
today? She really gave uspermission to show up as exactly
who you are in your business. Myhope is that you're walking away
with some fresh perspectives onhow being an introvert can
actually be a superpower in yourbusiness, and some practical
strategies for marketing andselling in ways that feel
(38:43):
natural to you.
I'm just gonna say it, if youare an online business owner,
which I'm betting you are, ifyou're listening to this show,
then you need to grab Nicole'sbook - Don't Ask Me to Be Loud.
I'm working my way through itright now. I'm almost finished,
and there have just been so manygreat takeaways that I'll be
(39:04):
using in my own business, and Iknow you'll want to use them in
yours too.
So head to Nicolekepik.com/bookto get your copy. That is NOT an
affiliate link, even though I dohave one, I just really believe
that this book is one that canmake a difference for you and
your business. And if you wantto connect with her on
Instagram, you can find her at@nkcopywriting. You can find all
(39:27):
the links in the show notes fortoday's episode at
Kristendoyle.co/episode136.
Thanks for tuning in, and I'llcatch you next time.
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