June 17, 2025 • 24 mins
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Feel like your marketing sounds…just like everyone else’s? It might be missing the one thing that truly sets you apart: your story! In this episode, I’m joined by marketing expert, Mary Czarnecki, to explore how storytelling isn’t just fluff - it’s one of the most strategic tools you can use to connect with your audience and drive real results.
Mary breaks down how to uncover the everyday moments that resonate, why personal stories can outperform polished business ones, and how to use storytelling across your entire marketing funnel. She shares practical tips for weaving stories into everything from Instagram captions to sales pages, without overthinking it.
From the power of a childhood memory to a lesson learned on the lacrosse field, we cover how emotional connections fuels conversions, and why you already have everything you need to tell stories that sell. This conversation can truly change the way you approach your content. Storytelling isn’t just a marketing tactic - it’s how you build trust, spark action, and grow a business people care about!
02:37 - Tips for finding the best stories to share in your marketing
08:06 - How you can use stories to create a connection and drive sales
10:28 - How do you structure your stories so that they’re effective (and not too long!)?
16:15 - A quick action step to take if you want to use stories to create a deeper connection with your audience
Links & Resources:
- Follow me on Instagram @kristendoyle.co
- Check out my Everything Page: a one-stop shop for savvy selling!
- The Savvy Seller Collective
- Join my private Facebook community: Savvy Teacher Sellers
- More resources for growing your TPT business
- Rate & review The Savvy Teacher Seller on Apple Podcasts
Connect with Mary:
Show Notes: https://kristendoyle.co/episode152
Tired of constantly hustling to sell your digital products? Check out my free 19-minute training where I show you how to turn all those products you already have into a profitable, automated business.
Get more freedom and less stress ➡️ watch now at kristendoyle.co/training
Check out my Everything Page at https://kristendoyle.co/everything
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristen (00:01):
If you have ever struggled to connect with your
audience, or felt like yourmarketing, whether it's social
media, or emails, or even yourwebsite, just isn't quite
hitting the mark, it could bethat storytelling is that
missing piece. But knowing whichstories to tell and how to tell
them the right way so that theyactually convert can be super
(00:25):
overwhelming. I know that issomething I struggle with, and I
know a lot of other businessowners struggle with it too. So
that is exactly why I invitedMary Czarnecki to the show
today.
Mary is a marketing strategist,speaker and a workshop
facilitator who has over 25years of experience working with
(00:46):
major brands, people likeJohnson and Johnson Web MD, and
now she helps business ownersand brands create messaging that
grabs their audience's attentionand drives them to action. In
today's episode, we are talkingabout the power of storytelling
(01:06):
in your marketing, how to findyour best stories, where to use
them, and how to keep themfocused and converting. If
you've ever thought to yourself,I don't have any good stories to
tell, or you're just unsure ofhow to make stories work better
for your business, you are goingto love this conversation with
(01:27):
Mary.
Are you a digital product orcourse creator, selling on
platforms like Teachers PayTeachers, Etsy or your own
website? Ready to grow yourbusiness, but not into the kind
of constant hustle that leadsstraight to burnout? Then you're
in the right place. Welcome toThe Savvy Seller. I'm Kristen
(01:47):
Doyle, and I'm here to give youno fluff tools and strategies
that move the needle for yourbusiness without burning you out
in the process—things like SEO,no stress marketing, email list
building, automations and somuch more. Let's get started,
y'all.
(02:09):
Hey, Mary, thank you so much forbeing here.
Mary (02:13):
Absolutely. Thrilled to, thrilled to be a guest.
Kristen (02:15):
I was just so excited to bring you on after we met, I
guess we met a year ago, maybe.
But after we saw each otheragain more recently and talked
some about stories and how wecan use those in our marketing,
I knew I wanted to bring you onto share some of your genius
with my listeners. So let's divestraight in.
Mary (02:36):
Sounds good
Kristen (02:37):
So you talk a lot about how stories are so important,
and they build such a goodconnection with people. And I
think a lot of us kind ofintuitively know that, but we
get stuck with I don't know whatstory to tell, and feeling like
sometimes we don't have anystories to tell. So what kind of
(02:57):
tips do you have for us abouthow small business owners,
digital product creators, canfind those best stories to share
in their marketing?
Mary (03:05):
For sure. I mean, it's a good question, and a lot of
times when I'mworking withpeople on this, it's exactly
what they bump into, which is,Mary, I don't have any stories
to tell, I always get stuck kindof brainstorming it. And so the
thing I remind people too,especially if you're thinking
about using stories in yourmarketing, in your
communications, maybe in salesconversations, but basically,
when it comes to sharingsomething about your business
(03:28):
and moving people through thataudience journey we talk about
with our business, you canactually kind of find an easier
way to come up with thosestories, which is to actually
shift it to well, What does theaudience actually need to hear
from you?
So I usually start by helpingpeople think about, okay, not
necessarily, what's the story,but what's the lesson that you
(03:50):
need a story to help you teach,or what's the challenge that you
need to help your audienceovercome in order to take that
next step with you? So whetherthat's deciding to work with
you, either discovering that youexist or discovering that
you're, you know, the one forthem. And so before we even get
overwhelmed by trying tobrainstorm the actual story, the
(04:12):
trick is to think about, well,what do I actually need this
story to do for me first? Andthen it's kind of fun, because
then once you have that lessonthat you want to teach, or, you
know, the moral of the storyfirst, then all of a sudden, we
can start to really brainstormthe actual stories that can help
you do that thing.
Kristen (04:30):
Yeah, I love that approach, starting with the why.
What's the goal? What am Itrying to accomplish? Reminds me
of kind of how I approach webdesign projects, too. We always
start with the strategy, right?
What's the goal? Where are wetrying to go with this? That
definitely helps take a littleof the, I don't know what to
say, pressure off, becausereally, I mean, we can all say I
(04:50):
don't have stories to share, butwe do. We've lived a lot of
years. A lot of things havehappened in our lives. There are
stories to share. We justsometimes forget about them, or
feel like they're not big enoughor not good enough stories.
Mary (05:08):
Absolutely, and I think that's that's that limiting
factor, right? That we're wemight be holding ourselves back
from telling a story that can doexactly what we want it to do,
but we think it's not bigenough, right? Or it's not, you
know, some groundbreaking, youknow, cure cancer story, like,
that's not what we're talkingabout. But I love, it is exactly
like what you do when you thinkabout website design, which is,
(05:30):
okay, I could design a reallypretty website, but is that
actually going to do anythingfor your business?
It's the same kind of thing.
There are people out there whocan help, you know, who could
tell great stories, entertainingstories, incredibly emotionally,
you know, pulling and memorablestories, but when we're thinking
about them in a businesscontent, we also need them to be
(05:51):
strategic stories. We need themto do something or create some
kind of emotional connectionwith our audience, whoever is
hearing or reading this story.
And so sometimes it's thesmallest story that can teach
even a big lesson, right?
So one of the favorite ones webrainstormed in the workshop,
(06:12):
even that we were together for,was the idea of, okay, I'm an
agency owner and I need peopleto understand that they need to
trust me, right? Because maybethey've been burned in the past
by other agencies. Maybe they'vebeen burned in the past by, you
know, other digital marketersthey've worked with. Can I help
them understand that they shouldtrust again? They should trust
(06:33):
me. And it was the story of theperm, right? The bad perm. You
know, someone trusted a pro, thewoman who we were brainstorming
the story for, but people getthat experience, right? Whether
you've had a bad perm, youprobably know someone that's had
a bad perm, and you know whatthat feels like when you've been
betrayed by someone who'ssupposed to be the professional
(06:53):
with your best interest in mind.
And so we're helping peopleconnect with something that
they're already familiar with tonow the lesson or the connection
that we're trying to make withthem.
Kristen (07:04):
Yeah, and I would, I would guess, just about
everybody our age has either hadthe bad perm or at least, like,
a bad haircut or somethingsimilar, that that would build
that personal connection to.
Mary (07:18):
Exactly. You know, and it's one of those things too,
where even the smallest stories,I, you know, invite people to
catalog, right? I was, myyoungest son is obsessed with
lacrosse right now. And one ofthe stories I use now in a lot
of my workshops about gettingout of your comfort zone and
looking for your next client,connector or collaborator in,
(07:40):
you know, unusual scenarios wasfrom being at a lacrosse
tournament with him in betweengames. He and a couple other
kids from a totally another teamplayed pickup, and they invited
him to, you know, play withthem, just because they were
there, right? So even a lessonfrom, you know, being in a 10
(08:00):
year old's lacrosse game canteach something that even
professional marketers can learnfrom.
Kristen (08:06):
So once we have these stories, where do we put them?
How can we use these stories inour website copy on our sales
pages and our emails? How can weuse the stories to actually get
the conversions to purchases ofproducts or to booking clients,
whatever it is that we'relooking to do?
Mary (08:26):
Yeah, absolutely. So the way I think about it is probably
very similar to the strategythat you take and the approach
that you take when you'rethinking about website design,
which is, okay, there are goingto be different touch points
that our audience is going to belooking for information that
they're going to be engagingwith as they're going through
the journey with us. So if wehave this story that is teaching
(08:46):
this lesson or helping themunderstand something about us
and our business, the questionis that, okay, where do they
need to learn that lesson in thejourney, and then what are the
touch points they'reexperiencing on that journey?
So for example, if it's what wecall kind of the why story,
which is, you know, who do youstand for? What do you stand
with? You know, who are thepeople that you really have
(09:08):
created your business or yourbrand for? What are your values,
right? The big why story. We canthink about putting those on any
of those broad reach channels.
We can also think about, okay,if it's more of like a proof
story, where you're actuallytelling the story of a client or
customer that said yes to you,that you've worked with, that
has used your product orservice, and now you're
(09:28):
showcasing what that actualexperience was like for them.
Yes, you can put those on thosebroad channels, but they're
probably more impactful whensomeone's ready for that and for
information, either they sign upto your email list or they're on
your website, right? They'veleaned in a little bit already.
So you can think about, okay,these are where they're primed
for that information. So that'sone way to think about it. But I
(09:50):
definitely think people can usemore stories, really, on any
platform, any touch point thatyou're creating.
Kristen (09:58):
So we're thinking through kind of the funnel,
that, I hate the phrase customerjourney. I feel like it's
everywhere, and it feels almostso throw away at this point. But
thinking about that, the funnelof your customers. You have your
top of funnel people who arejust getting to know you. You
have your middle of the funnel,and you have your bottom of a
funnel. And I guess in the sameway that we create different web
(10:21):
pages for different people anddifferent lead magnets for
people at different places, weneed different stories at those
different points as well.
I love that approach.
One thing I know that sometimes
Mary (10:28):
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that, you know, when I'm
thinking about it, there's kindof like this treasure trove of
stories that you can you canbuild and then pull from.
Whether you're a guest on apodcast, or whether you're
writing a blog or writing anemail to your list, or even just
creating social content, askingthat question of, okay, well,
what, where are people gettingstuck in my funnel right now? Am
(10:52):
I losing people at the top? Arepeople getting all the way
through and then just notconverting, right? What is it?
I struggle with, and I'mguessing some other people do
What do they need to hear fromme? What lesson or what moral of
the story do I need to actuallycommunicate to help them move
through that experience?
(11:15):
too, is when we think about thestory and we start to write the
story, the story gets reallylong, and we struggle to know,
like, how much of this should Itrim? Do I need to keep a long
story? Is the story too much andI'm not getting to the point
fast enough? How do you, how doyou approach that?
No, it's a good question.
And the kinds of stories that wesee work really well that
(11:37):
creates that emotionalengagement that captivates
people, but then also does whatwe really want it to do in
business, which is move theminto action, not just entertain
them, tend to, yes, be morefocused stories. Not necessarily
in actual written length orspoken length, but focused on a
moment, a transformation andexperience. And so when I'm
(11:58):
thinking about it, if someone isfinding that they're, they're
developing a story that coversmaybe too long a swath of time,
or covers their entire originstory from, you know, the first
time I ever thought about this,to now, you know, 20 years
later, we we want to chunk it upinto kind of a story set.
So you can, you can think aboutdifferent moments in that longer
(12:23):
story, and then drill down andmake each of those its own
little story. But then when youput them together, it could be a
story set. So when we're doingthat, what we're doing is we're
focusing on, okay, what is theone kind of like firework moment
or transformation moment thatactually happened, where that
Aha took place, or where thatshift in your perspective, or
(12:44):
your client's perspective tookplace. Zoom me into that that
moment, bring me into that room,into the car where that
happened, into the room wherethat happened, right, and really
try and bring me into that focusof a story. In that way, it
helps shorten, not only theexperience that you're having
someone to, inviting someone totrack with you, but it's
(13:06):
actually, it does shorten theamount of time that you're
taking in telling that story.
Kristen (13:10):
Yeah, I like that. That helps just narrow it to that one
little, that one little moment,and then that just kind of
naturally keeps the story alittle shorter I would think.
Mary (13:19):
Exactly, yeah, it does help naturally kind of focus in
on the moment, that one moment.
Kristen (13:24):
And one thing I've noticed as you've been talking
is that all of the stories thatyou have mentioned are totally
unrelated to business. I knowsometimes we get a little stuck,
especially when we think aboutlike, I need to share an aha
moment or a transformation. Wethink like I need to share my
aha moment that taught me thisthing that I'm trying to sell
(13:45):
you now, but it sounds like youyou would say more personal
stories sometimes maybe dobetter.
Mary (13:52):
You know, I think it, it's great to have a mix. I think
it's much more natural forbusiness people and
entrepreneurs to use businessstories, which is why I actually
focus on it less in my workshopwhen I'm working with clients,
because those are, those areeasier for us to tell. Like, how
did I fall in love with websitedesign, right? Or, what was my
(14:13):
aha moment that you know, thisis why I approach website design
this way or that way?
What I find is that sometimestelling a personal story to
illustrate a professional pointor a business lesson, is that
sometimes those personalexperiences are much easier for
our audience to connect with,right? They may not be in love
(14:33):
with website design, right?
Exactly why they need yourgenius. But they can connect to
a moment where they thoughttheir dog had run away, or they
thought that their kid hadgotten lost in the grocery
store, or, you know, so thesemoments of real human
experience, what we find is thatwe can connect with those a
little bit better. And so whatwe're doing is we're making,
(14:53):
we're making connections withthings that people are already
very intrinsically, veryfamiliar with, comfortable with,
right? Those small details,those emotions that they've
experienced all of a sudden nowyou're saying, Yeah, I have
those experiences too. I've had,you know, something similar, and
you're now connected in a waythat is just so relatable, so
humanizing, and especially inthis day and age, I think that
(15:15):
is what audiences are justcraving.
Kristen (15:19):
Yeah, I think so too. I can see where the more personal
stories really help people feellike, oh, okay, she's like me,
or he has, he did this too,whatever that is that we, you
know, we're just looking forpeople to connect with. We're
looking for things we have incommon and and people who are
like us, who understand us. So Ican see that a personal story
(15:41):
would really be better atbuilding that kind of connection
than telling, you know, theprofessional stories, which I
know there is a time and placefor those too.
But especially thinking aboutwho you serve and how you help
them. Most of the time, we arenot helping people who do the
same thing that we do, right?
We're helping people who needwhat we have so they may not
relate to my web designer Ahamoment where I figured out that
(16:03):
the heading needs to be donelike this, because they've never
thought about it and they don'tcare. They want the results,
right? But those personalstories would connect a lot
better.
Mary (16:13):
Absolutely. Yep.
Kristen (16:15):
So for some of us who are not as comfortable with
storytelling, maybe we're justtrying to kind of get started
bringing some storytelling intoour marketing, what is one easy
action step that they can take?
Mary (16:31):
Yeah, so one quick action step that I think people could
take if they're just gettingstarted, if they are just, you
know, kind of building the skillof using real stories based on
real moments to create thesedeeper connections with their
audience is to first, you know,just think about where are
people getting stuck? Are youfeeling like you're giving all
(16:52):
this information on a salescall, but you're still not
getting the conversions? Or isit that you're creating content
or blog posts or social mediacontent that just doesn't feel
like it's connecting, peoplearen't really resonating with
it? So figure out where you'regetting stuck, and then think
about the that story first.
And then you know it when itcomes to actually telling the
(17:14):
story and practicing telling thestory, I'm a huge fan of trying
to tell it to real humans beforewe even write it down. So
whether that's going to anetworking event or, you know, a
conference, or just calling up abiz bestie, or if you're part of
a mastermind group, practicingyour stories with real humans is
(17:34):
a fantastic way to figure outwhat part of the story is really
landing, because you willactually get real human
reactions. You'll get people's,you know, facial expressions.
People will actually lean inand, like, want to know, oh,
well, what actually happened?
And then the other thing is justmodeling behavior. I know this
is more than just one thing,but, you know, it fits, it fits
on a sticky note.
Kristen (17:57):
I'm here for all the tips.
Mary (17:58):
So it's just to think about, what stories do you love
listening to? Who are thestorytellers, the podcasters,
right, the people who aretelling stories in their content
that you love listening to? Andthen just seeing why that
attracted you and just modelingthat behavior.
Kristen (18:16):
Great tips and yes, maybe you cheat this question a
little bit. A few action steps.
Mary (18:24):
Yes.
Kristen (18:25):
Love that, though. And you know, really, there is just
so much to learn from otherpeople who are doing this kind
of thing really well. I know,for me personally, one of the
best ways that I have learnedabout email marketing, for
example, is being on really goodemail lists, and some of them
are really great storytellers.
So I've learned some about storyfrom some of those people too,
(18:46):
because it just, you know, whenyou follow people who are
telling great stories or doingyou know, the thing that you're
trying to get better at, youjust sort of absorb some of all
of their genius and learn to putthat stuff into practice for
yourself too.
Mary (19:02):
Absolutely. Yeah, modeling, modeling what works,
and just even observing andgetting curious. Well, that's
interesting. Why did I stop onthat post, or why did I want to
read that whole email, and justbeing able to learn from that
experience is great.
Kristen (19:15):
And one thing I sometimes forget to do is think
about that thing that caught myattention. Why did it catch my
attention? What can I learn fromthat?
Mary (19:23):
Yes, I think that was pounded in my brain in corporate
marketing. You know, we wouldwatch the Super Bowl for the
ads, right, to just learn fromthe advertising mistakes of
others, so that we don't makethem ourselves.
Kristen (19:36):
Yeah, those of us who don't have that corporate
background, it just doesn't comeas naturally, but that's a great
tip.
Mary (19:42):
Yeah.
Kristen (19:42):
Speaking of people that we follow, tell everyone where
they can find you. Because ofall the people to learn about
storytelling from, I havelearned so much following you,
and I think everyone should befollowing you as well.
Mary (19:57):
Oh, thank you so much. I do post a lot of my own personal
stories and lessons over onLinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great
way to connect with me. And thenI'm usually posting more behind
the scenes content, life here inOregon, wine country, over on
Instagram, those are theplatforms I show up most. But if
anyone has any questions, I'malways available through DM in
(20:18):
either of those channels.
Kristen (20:19):
Alright, and we'll drop those links in the show notes
for everybody. Thank you so muchfor being here. Always good to
chat with you. Love talkingabout how we can incorporate
stories a little bit easier inall of the things that we're
doing for marketing.
Mary (20:33):
Amazing. So happy to be here, and thanks for having me
on the show.
Kristen (20:38):
The way Mary flipped the script on storytelling
really resonated with me, and Ihope it did with you, too.
Starting with that lesson thatyou want to teach, and then
finding the story to deliver it.
That approach takes so muchpressure off of just trying to
think up the perfect story,because we start with the
strategy first.
(20:58):
I hope you are walking away withsome practical ideas for using
more personal stories in yourmarketing as well. Keep in mind
it is very often those little,tiny everyday moments, the bad
haircut, your kid's lacrossegame, something else that's just
relatable for people that reallycreate the best connections with
(21:21):
your audience.
If you'd like more of Mary'sstorytelling wisdom, connect
with her on LinkedIn orInstagram and definitely check
out her podcast, Sticky NoteMarketing. It's full of
practical marketing andstorytelling tips in bite sized
episodes, and you might evenrecognize one of her guests on
(21:42):
the show. You'll find all ofthose links in the show notes,
and I'll talk to you soon.
If you have ever struggled to connect with your
audience, or felt like yourmarketing, whether it's social
media, or emails, or even yourwebsite, just isn't quite
hitting the mark, it could bethat storytelling is that
missing piece. But knowing whichstories to tell and how to tell
them the right way so that theyactually convert can be super
(00:25):
overwhelming. I know that issomething I struggle with, and I
know a lot of other businessowners struggle with it too. So
that is exactly why I invitedMary Czarnecki to the show
today.
Mary is a marketing strategist,speaker and a workshop
facilitator who has over 25years of experience working with
(00:46):
major brands, people likeJohnson and Johnson Web MD, and
now she helps business ownersand brands create messaging that
grabs their audience's attentionand drives them to action. In
today's episode, we are talkingabout the power of storytelling
(01:06):
in your marketing, how to findyour best stories, where to use
them, and how to keep themfocused and converting. If
you've ever thought to yourself,I don't have any good stories to
tell, or you're just unsure ofhow to make stories work better
for your business, you are goingto love this conversation with
(01:27):
Mary.
Are you a digital product orcourse creator, selling on
platforms like Teachers PayTeachers, Etsy or your own
website? Ready to grow yourbusiness, but not into the kind
of constant hustle that leadsstraight to burnout? Then you're
in the right place. Welcome toThe Savvy Seller. I'm Kristen
(01:47):
Doyle, and I'm here to give youno fluff tools and strategies
that move the needle for yourbusiness without burning you out
in the process—things like SEO,no stress marketing, email list
building, automations and somuch more. Let's get started,
y'all.
(02:09):
Hey, Mary, thank you so much forbeing here.
Mary (02:13):
Absolutely. Thrilled to, thrilled to be a guest.
Kristen (02:15):
I was just so excited to bring you on after we met, I
guess we met a year ago, maybe.
But after we saw each otheragain more recently and talked
some about stories and how wecan use those in our marketing,
I knew I wanted to bring you onto share some of your genius
with my listeners. So let's divestraight in.
Mary (02:36):
Sounds good
Kristen (02:37):
So you talk a lot about how stories are so important,
and they build such a goodconnection with people. And I
think a lot of us kind ofintuitively know that, but we
get stuck with I don't know whatstory to tell, and feeling like
sometimes we don't have anystories to tell. So what kind of
(02:57):
tips do you have for us abouthow small business owners,
digital product creators, canfind those best stories to share
in their marketing?
Mary (03:05):
For sure. I mean, it's a good question, and a lot of
times when I'mworking withpeople on this, it's exactly
what they bump into, which is,Mary, I don't have any stories
to tell, I always get stuck kindof brainstorming it. And so the
thing I remind people too,especially if you're thinking
about using stories in yourmarketing, in your
communications, maybe in salesconversations, but basically,
when it comes to sharingsomething about your business
(03:28):
and moving people through thataudience journey we talk about
with our business, you canactually kind of find an easier
way to come up with thosestories, which is to actually
shift it to well, What does theaudience actually need to hear
from you?
So I usually start by helpingpeople think about, okay, not
necessarily, what's the story,but what's the lesson that you
(03:50):
need a story to help you teach,or what's the challenge that you
need to help your audienceovercome in order to take that
next step with you? So whetherthat's deciding to work with
you, either discovering that youexist or discovering that
you're, you know, the one forthem. And so before we even get
overwhelmed by trying tobrainstorm the actual story, the
(04:12):
trick is to think about, well,what do I actually need this
story to do for me first? Andthen it's kind of fun, because
then once you have that lessonthat you want to teach, or, you
know, the moral of the storyfirst, then all of a sudden, we
can start to really brainstormthe actual stories that can help
you do that thing.
Kristen (04:30):
Yeah, I love that approach, starting with the why.
What's the goal? What am Itrying to accomplish? Reminds me
of kind of how I approach webdesign projects, too. We always
start with the strategy, right?
What's the goal? Where are wetrying to go with this? That
definitely helps take a littleof the, I don't know what to
say, pressure off, becausereally, I mean, we can all say I
(04:50):
don't have stories to share, butwe do. We've lived a lot of
years. A lot of things havehappened in our lives. There are
stories to share. We justsometimes forget about them, or
feel like they're not big enoughor not good enough stories.
Mary (05:08):
Absolutely, and I think that's that's that limiting
factor, right? That we're wemight be holding ourselves back
from telling a story that can doexactly what we want it to do,
but we think it's not bigenough, right? Or it's not, you
know, some groundbreaking, youknow, cure cancer story, like,
that's not what we're talkingabout. But I love, it is exactly
like what you do when you thinkabout website design, which is,
(05:30):
okay, I could design a reallypretty website, but is that
actually going to do anythingfor your business?
It's the same kind of thing.
There are people out there whocan help, you know, who could
tell great stories, entertainingstories, incredibly emotionally,
you know, pulling and memorablestories, but when we're thinking
about them in a businesscontent, we also need them to be
(05:51):
strategic stories. We need themto do something or create some
kind of emotional connectionwith our audience, whoever is
hearing or reading this story.
And so sometimes it's thesmallest story that can teach
even a big lesson, right?
So one of the favorite ones webrainstormed in the workshop,
(06:12):
even that we were together for,was the idea of, okay, I'm an
agency owner and I need peopleto understand that they need to
trust me, right? Because maybethey've been burned in the past
by other agencies. Maybe they'vebeen burned in the past by, you
know, other digital marketersthey've worked with. Can I help
them understand that they shouldtrust again? They should trust
(06:33):
me. And it was the story of theperm, right? The bad perm. You
know, someone trusted a pro, thewoman who we were brainstorming
the story for, but people getthat experience, right? Whether
you've had a bad perm, youprobably know someone that's had
a bad perm, and you know whatthat feels like when you've been
betrayed by someone who'ssupposed to be the professional
(06:53):
with your best interest in mind.
And so we're helping peopleconnect with something that
they're already familiar with tonow the lesson or the connection
that we're trying to make withthem.
Kristen (07:04):
Yeah, and I would, I would guess, just about
everybody our age has either hadthe bad perm or at least, like,
a bad haircut or somethingsimilar, that that would build
that personal connection to.
Mary (07:18):
Exactly. You know, and it's one of those things too,
where even the smallest stories,I, you know, invite people to
catalog, right? I was, myyoungest son is obsessed with
lacrosse right now. And one ofthe stories I use now in a lot
of my workshops about gettingout of your comfort zone and
looking for your next client,connector or collaborator in,
(07:40):
you know, unusual scenarios wasfrom being at a lacrosse
tournament with him in betweengames. He and a couple other
kids from a totally another teamplayed pickup, and they invited
him to, you know, play withthem, just because they were
there, right? So even a lessonfrom, you know, being in a 10
(08:00):
year old's lacrosse game canteach something that even
professional marketers can learnfrom.
Kristen (08:06):
So once we have these stories, where do we put them?
How can we use these stories inour website copy on our sales
pages and our emails? How can weuse the stories to actually get
the conversions to purchases ofproducts or to booking clients,
whatever it is that we'relooking to do?
Mary (08:26):
Yeah, absolutely. So the way I think about it is probably
very similar to the strategythat you take and the approach
that you take when you'rethinking about website design,
which is, okay, there are goingto be different touch points
that our audience is going to belooking for information that
they're going to be engagingwith as they're going through
the journey with us. So if wehave this story that is teaching
(08:46):
this lesson or helping themunderstand something about us
and our business, the questionis that, okay, where do they
need to learn that lesson in thejourney, and then what are the
touch points they'reexperiencing on that journey?
So for example, if it's what wecall kind of the why story,
which is, you know, who do youstand for? What do you stand
with? You know, who are thepeople that you really have
(09:08):
created your business or yourbrand for? What are your values,
right? The big why story. We canthink about putting those on any
of those broad reach channels.
We can also think about, okay,if it's more of like a proof
story, where you're actuallytelling the story of a client or
customer that said yes to you,that you've worked with, that
has used your product orservice, and now you're
(09:28):
showcasing what that actualexperience was like for them.
Yes, you can put those on thosebroad channels, but they're
probably more impactful whensomeone's ready for that and for
information, either they sign upto your email list or they're on
your website, right? They'veleaned in a little bit already.
So you can think about, okay,these are where they're primed
for that information. So that'sone way to think about it. But I
(09:50):
definitely think people can usemore stories, really, on any
platform, any touch point thatyou're creating.
Kristen (09:58):
So we're thinking through kind of the funnel,
that, I hate the phrase customerjourney. I feel like it's
everywhere, and it feels almostso throw away at this point. But
thinking about that, the funnelof your customers. You have your
top of funnel people who arejust getting to know you. You
have your middle of the funnel,and you have your bottom of a
funnel. And I guess in the sameway that we create different web
(10:21):
pages for different people anddifferent lead magnets for
people at different places, weneed different stories at those
different points as well.
I love that approach.
One thing I know that sometimes
Mary (10:28):
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that, you know, when I'm
thinking about it, there's kindof like this treasure trove of
stories that you can you canbuild and then pull from.
Whether you're a guest on apodcast, or whether you're
writing a blog or writing anemail to your list, or even just
creating social content, askingthat question of, okay, well,
what, where are people gettingstuck in my funnel right now? Am
(10:52):
I losing people at the top? Arepeople getting all the way
through and then just notconverting, right? What is it?
I struggle with, and I'mguessing some other people do
What do they need to hear fromme? What lesson or what moral of
the story do I need to actuallycommunicate to help them move
through that experience?
(11:15):
too, is when we think about thestory and we start to write the
story, the story gets reallylong, and we struggle to know,
like, how much of this should Itrim? Do I need to keep a long
story? Is the story too much andI'm not getting to the point
fast enough? How do you, how doyou approach that?
No, it's a good question.
And the kinds of stories that wesee work really well that
(11:37):
creates that emotionalengagement that captivates
people, but then also does whatwe really want it to do in
business, which is move theminto action, not just entertain
them, tend to, yes, be morefocused stories. Not necessarily
in actual written length orspoken length, but focused on a
moment, a transformation andexperience. And so when I'm
(11:58):
thinking about it, if someone isfinding that they're, they're
developing a story that coversmaybe too long a swath of time,
or covers their entire originstory from, you know, the first
time I ever thought about this,to now, you know, 20 years
later, we we want to chunk it upinto kind of a story set.
So you can, you can think aboutdifferent moments in that longer
(12:23):
story, and then drill down andmake each of those its own
little story. But then when youput them together, it could be a
story set. So when we're doingthat, what we're doing is we're
focusing on, okay, what is theone kind of like firework moment
or transformation moment thatactually happened, where that
Aha took place, or where thatshift in your perspective, or
(12:44):
your client's perspective tookplace. Zoom me into that that
moment, bring me into that room,into the car where that
happened, into the room wherethat happened, right, and really
try and bring me into that focusof a story. In that way, it
helps shorten, not only theexperience that you're having
someone to, inviting someone totrack with you, but it's
(13:06):
actually, it does shorten theamount of time that you're
taking in telling that story.
Kristen (13:10):
Yeah, I like that. That helps just narrow it to that one
little, that one little moment,and then that just kind of
naturally keeps the story alittle shorter I would think.
Mary (13:19):
Exactly, yeah, it does help naturally kind of focus in
on the moment, that one moment.
Kristen (13:24):
And one thing I've noticed as you've been talking
is that all of the stories thatyou have mentioned are totally
unrelated to business. I knowsometimes we get a little stuck,
especially when we think aboutlike, I need to share an aha
moment or a transformation. Wethink like I need to share my
aha moment that taught me thisthing that I'm trying to sell
(13:45):
you now, but it sounds like youyou would say more personal
stories sometimes maybe dobetter.
Mary (13:52):
You know, I think it, it's great to have a mix. I think
it's much more natural forbusiness people and
entrepreneurs to use businessstories, which is why I actually
focus on it less in my workshopwhen I'm working with clients,
because those are, those areeasier for us to tell. Like, how
did I fall in love with websitedesign, right? Or, what was my
(14:13):
aha moment that you know, thisis why I approach website design
this way or that way?
What I find is that sometimestelling a personal story to
illustrate a professional pointor a business lesson, is that
sometimes those personalexperiences are much easier for
our audience to connect with,right? They may not be in love
(14:33):
with website design, right?
Exactly why they need yourgenius. But they can connect to
a moment where they thoughttheir dog had run away, or they
thought that their kid hadgotten lost in the grocery
store, or, you know, so thesemoments of real human
experience, what we find is thatwe can connect with those a
little bit better. And so whatwe're doing is we're making,
(14:53):
we're making connections withthings that people are already
very intrinsically, veryfamiliar with, comfortable with,
right? Those small details,those emotions that they've
experienced all of a sudden nowyou're saying, Yeah, I have
those experiences too. I've had,you know, something similar, and
you're now connected in a waythat is just so relatable, so
humanizing, and especially inthis day and age, I think that
(15:15):
is what audiences are justcraving.
Kristen (15:19):
Yeah, I think so too. I can see where the more personal
stories really help people feellike, oh, okay, she's like me,
or he has, he did this too,whatever that is that we, you
know, we're just looking forpeople to connect with. We're
looking for things we have incommon and and people who are
like us, who understand us. So Ican see that a personal story
(15:41):
would really be better atbuilding that kind of connection
than telling, you know, theprofessional stories, which I
know there is a time and placefor those too.
But especially thinking aboutwho you serve and how you help
them. Most of the time, we arenot helping people who do the
same thing that we do, right?
We're helping people who needwhat we have so they may not
relate to my web designer Ahamoment where I figured out that
(16:03):
the heading needs to be donelike this, because they've never
thought about it and they don'tcare. They want the results,
right? But those personalstories would connect a lot
better.
Mary (16:13):
Absolutely. Yep.
Kristen (16:15):
So for some of us who are not as comfortable with
storytelling, maybe we're justtrying to kind of get started
bringing some storytelling intoour marketing, what is one easy
action step that they can take?
Mary (16:31):
Yeah, so one quick action step that I think people could
take if they're just gettingstarted, if they are just, you
know, kind of building the skillof using real stories based on
real moments to create thesedeeper connections with their
audience is to first, you know,just think about where are
people getting stuck? Are youfeeling like you're giving all
(16:52):
this information on a salescall, but you're still not
getting the conversions? Or isit that you're creating content
or blog posts or social mediacontent that just doesn't feel
like it's connecting, peoplearen't really resonating with
it? So figure out where you'regetting stuck, and then think
about the that story first.
And then you know it when itcomes to actually telling the
(17:14):
story and practicing telling thestory, I'm a huge fan of trying
to tell it to real humans beforewe even write it down. So
whether that's going to anetworking event or, you know, a
conference, or just calling up abiz bestie, or if you're part of
a mastermind group, practicingyour stories with real humans is
(17:34):
a fantastic way to figure outwhat part of the story is really
landing, because you willactually get real human
reactions. You'll get people's,you know, facial expressions.
People will actually lean inand, like, want to know, oh,
well, what actually happened?
And then the other thing is justmodeling behavior. I know this
is more than just one thing,but, you know, it fits, it fits
on a sticky note.
Kristen (17:57):
I'm here for all the tips.
Mary (17:58):
So it's just to think about, what stories do you love
listening to? Who are thestorytellers, the podcasters,
right, the people who aretelling stories in their content
that you love listening to? Andthen just seeing why that
attracted you and just modelingthat behavior.
Kristen (18:16):
Great tips and yes, maybe you cheat this question a
little bit. A few action steps.
Mary (18:24):
Yes.
Kristen (18:25):
Love that, though. And you know, really, there is just
so much to learn from otherpeople who are doing this kind
of thing really well. I know,for me personally, one of the
best ways that I have learnedabout email marketing, for
example, is being on really goodemail lists, and some of them
are really great storytellers.
So I've learned some about storyfrom some of those people too,
(18:46):
because it just, you know, whenyou follow people who are
telling great stories or doingyou know, the thing that you're
trying to get better at, youjust sort of absorb some of all
of their genius and learn to putthat stuff into practice for
yourself too.
Mary (19:02):
Absolutely. Yeah, modeling, modeling what works,
and just even observing andgetting curious. Well, that's
interesting. Why did I stop onthat post, or why did I want to
read that whole email, and justbeing able to learn from that
experience is great.
Kristen (19:15):
And one thing I sometimes forget to do is think
about that thing that caught myattention. Why did it catch my
attention? What can I learn fromthat?
Mary (19:23):
Yes, I think that was pounded in my brain in corporate
marketing. You know, we wouldwatch the Super Bowl for the
ads, right, to just learn fromthe advertising mistakes of
others, so that we don't makethem ourselves.
Kristen (19:36):
Yeah, those of us who don't have that corporate
background, it just doesn't comeas naturally, but that's a great
tip.
Mary (19:42):
Yeah.
Kristen (19:42):
Speaking of people that we follow, tell everyone where
they can find you. Because ofall the people to learn about
storytelling from, I havelearned so much following you,
and I think everyone should befollowing you as well.
Mary (19:57):
Oh, thank you so much. I do post a lot of my own personal
stories and lessons over onLinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great
way to connect with me. And thenI'm usually posting more behind
the scenes content, life here inOregon, wine country, over on
Instagram, those are theplatforms I show up most. But if
anyone has any questions, I'malways available through DM in
(20:18):
either of those channels.
Kristen (20:19):
Alright, and we'll drop those links in the show notes
for everybody. Thank you so muchfor being here. Always good to
chat with you. Love talkingabout how we can incorporate
stories a little bit easier inall of the things that we're
doing for marketing.
Mary (20:33):
Amazing. So happy to be here, and thanks for having me
on the show.
Kristen (20:38):
The way Mary flipped the script on storytelling
really resonated with me, and Ihope it did with you, too.
Starting with that lesson thatyou want to teach, and then
finding the story to deliver it.
That approach takes so muchpressure off of just trying to
think up the perfect story,because we start with the
strategy first.
(20:58):
I hope you are walking away withsome practical ideas for using
more personal stories in yourmarketing as well. Keep in mind
it is very often those little,tiny everyday moments, the bad
haircut, your kid's lacrossegame, something else that's just
relatable for people that reallycreate the best connections with
(21:21):
your audience.
If you'd like more of Mary'sstorytelling wisdom, connect
with her on LinkedIn orInstagram and definitely check
out her podcast, Sticky NoteMarketing. It's full of
practical marketing andstorytelling tips in bite sized
episodes, and you might evenrecognize one of her guests on
(21:42):
the show. You'll find all ofthose links in the show notes,
and I'll talk to you soon.
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