Briana Bass: Men Vs Women | The #1 Reason Couples Fight About Sex (And How To Fix It) | #162 - The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Willow (00:03):
What happens when a former corporate exec turns her
no BS lens towards sex, love,and relationships?
Brianna Bass is a therapist andboard certified sexologist who
helps high functioning peoplecut through patterns, heal their
intimacy, and transform theirlives, their lives.
In this conversation, We'rediving into the raw truth about

(00:24):
modern dating, burnout, and themessy, beautiful intersection of
ambition and desire.
I'm Dr.
Willow Brown here with LeahPiper.
We are your co-host for the SexReimagine podcast.
We are so grateful for all yourwonderful likes, shares, and
subscribes.
Keep them coming, and we cannotwait to dive into today's

(00:45):
conversation.

Leah (00:47):
That is right.
And so my friends, if you'vebeen with us for a while, you
know what to do.
And if you're new to the show,then this is your chance to tune
in, oh baby, turn on, and fallin love with Brianna.

Announcer (01:01):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.

Willow (01:10):
So excited to have you.

Leah (01:12):
welcome to the show.

Briana (01:14):
Yeah, I love our group here.

Willow (01:16):
Mm-hmm.

Leah (01:17):
So I'm really curious, you started off as an executive and
then you found yourself in theworld of therapy helping couples
and individuals.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat caused you to pivot into a
different industryprofessionally.

Briana (01:33):
Yeah, you know, corporate America is, it's
tough.
You gotta behave in a way thatyou might not feel like is ideal
or aligns with your values andand whatnot.
And so all of that, uh,environment, just, I eventually,
you know, kind of had enough andI returned to my roots.
So I really didn't reinventmyself.
I returned to what I think mysort of more organic, authentic

(01:54):
state was.
And I had my bachelor's ofscience and psychology and had
been studying human behavior fora while.
So for those reasons it feltactually like, okay, I'm going
back to what I feel at home inand.
Ultimately in corporate it wasthe, the most masterful
education and why people do whatthey do.
You are in this like ecosystemof people fighting for survival,

(02:15):
trying to make decisions,balancing life and their
families and all these things.
So you are quite literally in abubble of this, this great
experiment on, ooh, what willpeople do?
What choices will they make?
What should I do tostrategically change my
circumstance here?
So it all played into each otherreally, really nicely.
Um, but yeah, ultimately I madethe, the big shift because I

(02:35):
wasn't happy in corporateAmerica and I felt like there
was more to life and I wasn'thappy with the one life that I
had been given and how I wasliving it.

Willow (02:44):
Hmm.
What?
What, at what point did you makethis shift?
Like how far into the corporateAmerica?
I've never played in that world.
I can only imagine like how sortof like soul sucking it might
feel because you have to put onlike different masks and
different facades in order tokind of survive in it.

(03:05):
It seems like.

Briana (03:07):
You're completely right.
You do have to put in differentmass, different facades.
You do have to survive in thatway.
You know, we call that thetechnical term is cognitive
dissonance, where, you know,yeah.
That's the technical term forthat.
We see it in relationships a lotand, and things like that.
But, uh, I talk, I talk aboutthat a lot with people.
But, um, yeah, I was pretty farin, so I was senior vice

(03:27):
president, I believe it was inmy last role.
So I climbed that corporateladder.
I had put in a lot of work toget there, and then I get to
some of those top rungs and jumpship, uh, which felt really
ridiculous.
Right?
Talk about sunk costs.
You're going, oh my goodness,I've invested all of this.
Am I really gonna hit this ejectbutton now?

(03:48):
And I sure did.
I've never regret it.
Not for one moment.

Willow (03:53):
good.
So how long ago was that?

Briana (03:55):
Oh, maybe five years ago, something like that.

Leah (03:58):
Mm-hmm.

Willow (03:59):
so right before the pandemic kind of,

Briana (04:02):
Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah.
Those

Willow (04:04):
that, was that a tricky time then?
'cause you, you worked, worked,worked, got to the top, then
jumped ship, and then fuckingCOVID hit.

Briana (04:12):
Yes, exactly.
Um, COVID for me though, I used,uh, unintentionally, but in
hindsight as this catalyst toput these pieces in line, just
like we heard of other peoplethat were like, actually, I'm
gonna go back to doing pottery,or I'm gonna

Leah (04:28):
Right.
I'm gonna go back to school.

Briana (04:30):
Yeah, So many people, or they were like, I'm getting
divorced, I'm sick of this.
I'm out.
Like, we so many divorceshappen.
There you go.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Me, me too, me too.
Um, I've been, I've been doingthat also, so it's like, which,
you know, I think that that wasa, a, a, a spawn of it.
So yeah, COVID for me, um, youknow, re-shifted focus like so
many of us.

(04:50):
So same thing where we thought,wait a minute.
When I really look at, if myloved ones were taken away, if I
was taken away, if I, you know,really made you think about this
one chance and how delicate lifewas and how this thing was such
a threat to our everydayexistence.
And it was like, oh my God.
And so everybody's prioritiesjust got this incredible amount

(05:10):
of attention.
Yeah.
And we had, we were like, okay,let's make some different
decisions.

Leah (05:15):
So what do you think?
You know, uh, I know that youwork with a lot of couples,
probably couples that have beenin relationship for a long time.
And as we know, a lot of sexgets a little routine, can start
to get a little boring, becomesa little sexless, the longer
people are together.
Um, and then you have people whoare just longing for the beloved

(05:35):
longing for the one, and feelinglike they're failing at dating.
What do you think?
I think especially for couples,what do you think couples are
getting wrong when it comes tosex?

Briana (05:46):
Yeah.
To, to your point right aboutunderstanding.
First off, I would say you needto understand biology.
You need to understandneuroscience.
And that's kinda my focus andlike why we do what we do so
that you can delineate between,there's an issue in this
relationship, or I am facing,um, I'm quote, broken like many
women and men come and sayversus, Hey, my body's doing

(06:07):
this thing that's actuallyrather predictable.
And it's just a part of, of, ofhow we operate.
So for example, right in thebeginning when we're having sex
in a relationship is new, sexfeels more effortless because of
novelty.
That newness is so intoxicatingand your brain does this
phenomenal job of flooding youwith

Leah (06:28):
best cocktail.

Briana (06:30):
Mm-hmm.
Dopamine, norepinephrine,oxytocin, all these things are
happening.
You have a lot of vasopressintoo because you know you're
trying to impress each other andyou know all, all these things
and you're waiting on theirtexts and it feels so exciting
and fun.
So what people don't realize isall that extra periphery and all
that extra stuff and all thoseneurotransmitters and all these
mechanisms firing are absolutelycontributing to your sex life

(06:50):
being awesome.
And when that novelty, thatnewness, that initial period is
removed, then those things thatI just talked about really,
really, really taper down.
So therefore you would probablyhave less sex, maybe less
exciting, or all sorts ofthings, less frequency, you
know, whatever.
So that's exhibit A.

(07:11):
I think couples really need tounderstand that so they don't
misinterpret, um, the housebeing on fire or they're being
some incredible issue when it iskind of normal, typical.

Leah (07:22):
Yeah.
I call it the ooh la la phase.
When you've got that cocktailthat is just so easy to access
when you're dating somebody newand it all those ooh la la's
come on, and then I think thelove gets established.
You start to find security asyou start to define the
relationship and what you meanto each other.

(07:42):
And then that brain chemistry ismuch harder to access, but the
love is deep.
So then you lean into the loveand you're not necessarily
leaning so much into the sexualaeros of it all.
But then usually someone startsto complain like, what's wrong?
Because we're not horny like weused to be, or you are not horny
like you used to be.
Sometimes we're blaming oneperson for the lack of desire.

(08:06):
Has that been the case for you?
That you've got one partnergoing, I want more sex, and the
other partner feeling likepressure and obligation and
like, they just don't feelconnected to it in the same way.

Briana (08:19):
Absolutely, and there are some gender, uh, gender sort
of influences on that?
You know, I, I'd have to say ofcourse, that for the most part
it's the men saying, you know,not always, of course not, but,
but generally speaking, the menare, you know, maybe desiring it
more.
And the females not so much.
And, you know, the, I I've hadpeople bring in their wives and
say, can you fix her?

Leah (08:39):
Oh, totally.
I

Briana (08:41):
I, I uhhuh a hundred, a hundred percent.
And so as far as what I teach mymen, and, and I know everyone's
heard this, but I don't carebecause it seems to not be all
that sticky, is that, you know,men have sex to feel connected
and women have sex when theyfeel connected.
So we can all see the issuethere.

(09:01):
That's an issue.
We're going like totallydifferent directions.
So men will tie sex directly to,um, their identity, love,
validation, all sorts of thingslike that.
Versus women often tie sex todifferent criteria.
Um, and so there's a lot ofdifferences I see between, you
know, the men and women comingin and, and, and, and how they

(09:22):
operate in the space of sex.
But definitely the most dominantone is that.
I, her and I just had a fight orwe're in a rough spot, so let me
go ahead and reach for her,which is beautiful, right?
That's his, his attempt to say,let me make this feel better.
Let us get connected.
Let us have sex or, or even amakeout or hookup in some kind
way.

Leah (09:42):
Mm-hmm.

Briana (09:43):
And this is when she's the most repulsed.
And she's like, no, we just hada fight.
Or things are in a lull rightnow, or We've been having
resentment lately or conflict,or, I tried to come to you about
this problem I was having atwork and it turned into X, Y, Z.
And so no, this is when I wantto reject you the most.
So I, for them to identify thatthat pattern is happening, one

(10:04):
breads weakness into the maleside where he is like, okay, it
isn't about my masculinity, myvalidation, my identity.
This is coming from her end andshe's feeling a certain kind of
way.
And for those reasons, herintimacy, her arousal isn't like
firing on all cylinders.
And for the female, she's seeingit as kind of.
A dick move.
Like, what?
Why are you using me like anobject or chasing me like a

(10:27):
piece of meat or leaning intothis thing that feels very
intimate for me when we're notin this great place?
And so for her kind of learning,that's actually his attempt at
connecting with you, reachingfor you, wanting to improve the
circumstances.
I think that understanding, thathelps a lot.

Willow (10:42):
Yeah, that is super useful for all couples who are
dealing with that, which ismany, many, many couples.
Now, let's say you've got acouple you're working with who
they, they, may understand it,but they're still kind of stuck
in the, you know, well, fuckyou.
Don't get close to me.
I am in a mood, I am in a state,and he's just like, well, I

(11:04):
don't know what else to do.
Like, that's the only thing hecan think of.
Like, then what, where do youguide them from there?

Briana (11:11):
Uh, the first thing I would talk to them about is
probably the eight forms ofintimacy.
So outside of, you know, sex,what other things are we doing
as far as intimacy?
Intimacy is concerned?
So the seven other ways, right?
So how are we connecting there?
Because that's gonna be thecase, that sex takes a dip, or
we feel stuck.
Or where do I go from here?

(11:31):
That eight forms of emotionalintimacy and looking at those,
especially for men, right?
Very literal, very tangible.
You can truly

Willow (11:39):
great.
Give me a checklist.
Yeah,

Briana (11:42):
Yeah, And that's one that's like an easy win where
I'm like, okay, this sort offeels like a checklist.
And, and they get, it's likevery under easy to understand
and to grasp and hopefully, butvery likely by investing in
those other seven forms ofintimacy, the non-sex ones, it
should bleed over and improvethat eight one, and especially
again on the female side per ourconversation a moment ago.

(12:05):
That as he makes her feel moresafe, you know, maybe they take
a walk together, they go see ashow together, or they have some
intellectual conversation.
He listens to her about her day,they cook a meal together.
I don't know, whatever thesethings are could be spiritual.
There's, there's, it's, it spansa quite diverse range, so
there's kind of something foreveryone and you can sprinkle it
across the all, right?

(12:25):
Um, and some of them are, arenaturally happening in your day
to day, but as we go on and weget in our routines and we orbit
around each other, you know, wejust, we just lose some of it.
It, it is natural.
It happens.
So I would talk with them aboutwhere are we at with these seven
other forms, and you know what,maybe let's just even put the
sex things on ice and just focuson these seven other things and
then we will, we'll circle backto that.

Willow (12:47):
Mm-hmm.
So you have to tell ourlisteners what the seven other
forms of intimacy are.

Leah (12:51):
Give us some examples.
I think I heard you say like aspiritual connection, like if
they have a shared sort of faiththat they can bond over, like
cooking together, havingexperiences.
Um, but yeah.
Could you give us a few moreexamples?

Briana (13:04):
Yeah, I wanna, I feel like I have them memorized so
there's emotional, which isgonna be, um, you know, I, I.
I felt today at work, like an Iman imposter.
I, I I, I was in this meetingand, and I just, it felt like I,
I didn't know what to say eventhough I'd studied it.
And for your partner to justreceive that vulnerability from

(13:27):
you and that emotional momentand say, you know, oh, that
sounds awful.
I've experienced that feelingtoo, and it's the worst.
Right?
And for my men, you know, we'renot gonna try to solve it or, or
tell her that she should studymore or you.

Leah (13:40):
This is what you should have said,

Briana (13:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or like, yeah, you, youshouldn't feel that way.
Um, you know, because you aregreat.
I see the beauty in all of that.
But, you know, reminder not tosolve and you can get to that.
Right.
But when someone kind of throwsyou that ball, I talk about
throwing the ball a lot.
When she throws you that ball,just receive it and hold it.
Observe the ball and talk aboutthe ball itself if you feel

(14:01):
stuck.
So if I've got a male and she,and, and she's come to me and
said this thing, and I'm like, Idon't know what to say back.
I dunno what to say back.
Everywhere a step is a, is abomb and a, and a, and a
landmine.
You know?
Well talk about the ball then.
Talk about the ball.
Oh, so you,

Willow (14:14):
I like that analogy.
That's a good one.

Briana (14:16):
you were in that meeting and Oh, that, okay.
You know, the, the ball, themeeting, the, the imposter
syndrome, you know, that kind ofthing, right?
It's like a little, another likelayup.
Um, the other forms are, I wishI had these written down right
now.
Intellectual.
So intellectual.
Yeah.
That's you all connecting onsomething intellectual, right?
So now we're

Leah (14:34):
a book you just read or a podcast episode you just heard.

Briana (14:38):
Absolutely.
Or your personal maybe thoughtor take on something that sort
of has like an intellectual spinto it.
Um, that all counts.
Um, another thing is goalplanning.
So we're talking about next yearwe wanna go to Europe, you know,
what would we need to save amonth?
What would we need to do toreach this common shared
interest.
Interests is common shared goal.

(14:59):
So any kind of financialplanning, we want kid to go to
this college.
Yeah.
Oh, that's a beautiful way tosay it.
Yeah.
that's a beautiful way to sayit.
They should replace that withdreaming together, but yeah.
Um, the other ways areexperiential, so that's going
and golfing together while shesits in the cart or Yeah.
Taking an art class together.
So neither one of you are goodand have any idea what you're

(15:20):
doing and you're just like,stick figuring it and like being
like, you know, those, thosekinds of things.
So

Leah (15:25):
my husband and I just did that.

Briana (15:26):
Oh, you did?

Leah (15:27):
I dragged him to, I love to dot paint.
I mean, this is like an old one.

Willow (15:30):
You took Matt to dot painting.

Leah (15:31):
I did.

Willow (15:33):
What did.
he do?

Leah (15:34):
em.

Willow (15:35):
Did He like it?
Did he like it?

Leah (15:37):
God bless him.
Um, yeah, I mean, he doesn'tneed to go to another one, but
like he came, yeah.
But he came and he, he wouldprobably go again if I asked
him.

Willow (15:47):
Yeah.
Okay, so

Briana (15:49):
right though that like you guys weren't even, you know,
graded it or he, it's not evenhis thing necessarily.
Right.
Maybe it's more swayed towardsyou and then the next time, like
you can go do something that he,you're like, okay, I'll go see
that Marvel

Leah (16:00):
Like I'll go to the gym with them.
Right.
I

Willow (16:02):
it, and it could be maybe something that like
neither one of you're very goodat.
Let's go learn how to do tangotogether or something, you

Leah (16:09):
yeah.
Let's go take a pickleball classor,

Willow (16:11):
Or even just going to the beach.
Let's go to the beach togetherand

Leah (16:14):
Yeah.
I always drag him to likecooking classes when we travel.
I mean, he rarely cooks at home,but still it's like, yeah, you,
you have those sharedexperiences together and
sometimes you do something thatmay not be as interesting to
you, but you do it because it'ssomething that they are excited
about.

Briana (16:31):
Absolutely.
So, and you know, think of howyou would internalize that,
right?
Even further, it's so layered.
It would be so much even furtherthan this experiential thing
that you're sharing.
You'd be like, wow, they'rewilling to show up for me and do
this, that, you know, they don'treally get a lot out of it, and
I know that this isn't theirthing, and so they're just
showing up for me in this way tomake me feel seen and, and
nurtured and cared for andimportant.

Leah (16:51):
Yeah.
And to spend time with me.
Yeah.
Like it makes you feel like youmatter, you know?
Like, I mean, look at the smileon my face.
Like just remembering the factthat he painted a butterfly and
he painted a lady bug and hemade a little jar, and the shit
he's never gonna use, we'llprobably throw them away.
But regardless, like,

Willow (17:07):
The experience.
Experiential.

Leah (17:09):
Like, it just makes me love him so much that he makes
that effort, you

Willow (17:13):
He is gonna get good sex later.

Leah (17:15):
Oh my God.
Like I call'em boner points

Willow (17:18):
Yeah.
Bone

Leah (17:19):
really are doing something great.
I'm like, oh my god, 10 bonerpoints for you.
And he's like, when do I get tocash in these boner points?
I'm like, he's got a million bynow.
We've been married for 10 years.
I'm like, dude, anytime.
That's what boner points arefor.

Briana (17:33):
Exactly my point though.
You felt arousal, you feel likesome sort of openness and safety
and like, Right, these bonerpoints, it's, yeah,

Willow (17:43):
You're in, you're in.

Briana (17:45):
translating directly into willingness and interest in
sex.

Leah (17:49):
Yeah, and there's a cherishing, like I feel really
cherished by him that he makesthat effort and it makes me
wanna cherish him.
Like it's, it's a loop, right?
We're, we're creating newcircuits when we put effort into
our partnership.

Briana (18:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um.

Willow (18:02):
two more to go.
You're doing good, girl.
What are the last

Briana (18:05):
Um, okay.
Spiritual is a, is another one.
I'm glad you're counting.
'cause I am not.
So, yes.
Spiritual.
Okay.
Spiritual, right.
We're connecting on, onspiritual.
I need to figure out like betterdefinitions of these things.
Or just self-explanatory.
So you could be, yeah, you couldbe, yeah, you could talk about
like existential stuff.
Like why are we all here andwhat do we think?
Or you share, you know, ifyou're not necessarily religious

(18:26):
and maybe you're notparticipating in some sort of
sect, like going to church orsomething, you do something else
that makes you feel connected.
So maybe it's a walk, but inparticular, you know, you all
believe in nature and us, youknow, whatever it is that's kind
of your thing, but it has somesort of spiritual nature to it.
That's a completely differentcategory.

Willow (18:43):
Yeah.
Love it.
Okay.
There's one more to go.
So we've got emotional, sexual,intellectual dreaming together.
We're renaming that one fromgoal

Briana (18:53):
Okay.
Which is financial.
Yeah.

Willow (18:55):
Okay.
Experiential and spiritual

Briana (18:59):
Um, did we say sexual?

Willow (19:01):
Do I I list, I listed it.
Creative is the last one.

Briana (19:04):
Creative.
Yeah.
Creative is the last one.
Um, and that's you guys doingsomething together that has
creativity and it doesn't haveto be even with your hands,
although that's

Willow (19:13):
in the garden

Briana (19:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Leah (19:16):
together.

Briana (19:17):
Project in the house.
It could be even more simplethan that.
'cause I really want people totake away that these things can
be, you can come across them in,in already existing moments
throughout your day.

Willow (19:30):
can be very nuanced.
Yeah.

Briana (19:32):
Yeah.

Willow (19:33):
Like even breathing together could be spiritual And
creative.

Leah (19:36):
Yeah.

Briana (19:37):
Yep.
Yep.
You're exactly right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Willow (19:40):
all start to kind of

Leah (19:42):
right, like creating plans for the weekend or creating,
deciding what you're gonna dofor the birthday party for, you
know, kid number two or, um,cooking together or having a
garage sale together.
Something, you know, that takeseffort that you both contribute.
You know, maybe you'reredecorating the bedroom

Briana (20:00):
A big one that I talk

Leah (20:01):
though I wouldn't trust my husband to redecorate the
bedroom.

Briana (20:04):
maybe

Leah (20:05):
I'm like, I'll help you redecorate your man cave.

Briana (20:06):
You.

Leah (20:07):
Exactly.

Briana (20:08):
just there for emotional support.
Yeah.
Um, another one I talk aboutthat's very accessible, and
again, like very literal, iswatching, um, TV together, which
we're all doing that, right?
But if you choose not to justsit shoulder to shoulder and
just like in silence, watch, butinstead, like think of like
watching Real Housewives or sometrashy reality tv.

(20:28):
You guys are both like, I mean,you, you've seen a couple watch
90 Day fiance together orsomething.
They're both going, what anidiot.
Can you believe they just didthat?
Or the female saying, well, shedid it because of whatever.
And maybe he's saying, yeah, butshe, and you know, you kind of
banter and back and forth aboutwhat you're watching.
That definitely counts.
That's a big one that like,people are like, oh, okay, I can
do that one.
I can do that one.

Leah (20:50):
yeah, yeah.
Watching a

Willow (20:51):
funny that

Leah (20:52):
like together.

Willow (20:53):
one would bug me.
'cause I don't like anyone totalk when I'm watching a show.

Leah (20:56):
really?
I think like sometimes we gotinto love on the spectrum and it
was just

Willow (21:01):
oh that was the sweetest.

Leah (21:03):
like this.
We both just felt like so openedand just it reminded us of like
the importance of things.
We had good conversations as aresult of watching something
really sweet together.
Um, I remember we also watched,uh, blue Eye Samurai, which had
some really great naughtycartoon scenes, and it was like
we got to talk about, wow, lookat that.

(21:25):
You know, there was this houseof pleasure and you have like
these threesomes happening.
And anyways, we had funconversations over just a sex in
a cartoon.
Who would've thought.
So if anyone hasn't seenBlue-Eyed Samurai, Netflix,
highly recommend.

Willow (21:38):
Okay, good to know.
All right, so now the woman has,he is like gone to these seven
other things.
They're now more intimatelyconnected, so now she's more
open to sexuality.
Right.
So then how does he then get hisneed filled of through
sexuality, feeling moreconnected for himself?

Briana (22:01):
Well, one, I would say the frequency, the quality,
things like that shouldtypically be improved from the
investment across the seven.
So not only are we back to likehaving sex, let's say, but
ideally it would be of, of, ofhigher quality.
Um, and to be really crystalclear about that, that doesn't
necessarily mean, you know,performative or a better show or

(22:25):
more porn like.
Um, so another piece to kind ofanswer that about the guy
getting his needs met andfeeling like, you know, this is
all going well, or, or, or thesex life.
This, this eighth level ofintimacy, intimacy is also
getting some traction.
It would be, you know, beingincredibly curious in the
bedroom, trying not to be somission oriented, meaning like

(22:47):
straight to orgasm or that beinglike the goal.
That's the goal.
That's the goal.
Um, I need to get her there, Ineed to get her there and or on
his end.
Right.
Um, same thing,'cause bothpartners can feel that pressure
and feel a little bit of stress.
And as soon as we have pressurein the bedroom or stress about
anything, whether it be gettingto a goal or a fight, you

(23:08):
recently had absolutelyanything.
Even work, it zaps intimacy.
It is such a killer, especiallyfor women.
We get to fight or flight reallyeasy in sex and anytime we're in
fight or flight, we justintimacy it just falls out

Leah (23:22):
Yeah, and climax is really hard to reach during those
moments of stress.
Or if we're in our head andwe're thinking about the list
and we're thinking about,

Willow (23:31):
thinking that we need to get to the orgasm in order to
make him feel like he is

Briana (23:36):
a hundred percent.

Willow (23:37):
virtuoso,

Leah (23:38):
Yeah.
Right, right.

Briana (23:41):
Yeah, you're exactly right.
Yeah.
There's a pressure that a lot ofwomen face from thinking, I've
got to get there, because if Idon't, he's gonna ask me or
maybe feel a certain way, whichis really beautiful, right?
He's concerned, he's like, ohgosh, I wasn't good.
Or, you know, whatever.
I see the beauty in it, but itcan be a killer, right?
Because she's going, oh no,versus just enjoying the
interaction despite of reachingthat or not.

Leah (24:04):
Okay, so it sounds like we have to build trust and we use
these different types ofintimacy to build more trust so
that we, because I think for alot of women, they need to feel
safe in or in order to open upsexually.
And it's one of the reasons whywhen there's a fight or a
rupture, that trust and safetyalso feels like it's been
ruptured.
And it's why we can't just landand open our body and say, okay,

(24:24):
take me now for a lot of women,not everyone, um.
So I can see how the intimacykind of rebuilds some of that
safety and that trust betweenwithin our connection.
But what about novelty?
Because I think what's happeningwith a lot of women is they
don't, they're not in the moodbecause frankly they're not
having the sex that they want.

(24:45):
And they don't really know what,how to say the type of sex that
they want.
But I think novelty is a part ofthe answer to that.
It's wanting to kind of beravished and be taken and not
have to manage one more thing intheir world that she's in charge
of, you know?
So there's a decision fatiguesometimes I think swamps a

(25:06):
woman's ability to sustainarousal.
What do you have to say abouthow to give her the sex that she
wants.
It's not just about fucking andchecking it off the list.
Okay, we've had sex, we're asuccess.
It's how do we have good sex?

Briana (25:23):
Yeah, the, the thing with the whole talking to go, to
go to that point first.
So they did a study recently,um, I'd cited if I could, I
don't know everyone Google it,but, um, essentially they looked
at a, a significant, asubstantial amount of, of
couples from all backgroundsand, and age ranges, and those
that were having good sex versusthose that didn't feel that they

(25:43):
were, and tried to find like,what is a common denominator
here?
And the common denominator,shockingly, was not toys in the
bedroom or the novelty.
It was the ability to talkopenly and very comfortably
about the topic of sex.
That's what it was that theyfound was the biggest common
denominator.

(26:04):
And I have found that in mypractice, that if I have a
couple or one partner and wetalk about sex, I will
eventually and veryintentionally ask them about,
you know, some of theconversations.
And sure enough, just aboutevery time they're very clunky
or it feels taboo, it feels veryuncomfortable, they sort of, you
know, squirm or, you know,something like that, right?
So there's this, uh, there'sthis incredible connection

(26:29):
between the ability tocommunicate very openly about
your bedroom life with yourpartner that yields good
results.
Also in the bedroom, they kindof just tie into one another.
So, uh, you know, what did youask me?

Leah (26:43):
So, no, you're answering the

Willow (26:44):
Yeah, you're doing great.

Leah (26:46):
it's really about having the type of sex that you want.
Some, I,

Briana (26:50):
Oh yeah, you gotta talk

Leah (26:51):
know, yeah.
It's like I, I would want moresex if I was having, if you
could gimme the sex that I want.

Willow (26:56):
this good, the

Leah (26:57):
A lot of times they don't even know what the sex is that
they want.
They just know they don't wantwhat they're getting.
And so I think a lot of peoplestay stuck and I don't like what
I'm getting, but what's reallyunhelpful is they don't say what
it is that they want that couldbe different.
Um, or we get so defensive inthe conversation that we don't
know to have the, how to havethis conversation well.

(27:18):
Where like, I think the word youused earlier was curious.
Can we be so curious about ourpartner

Briana (27:25):
Yeah.

Leah (27:26):
know what they think and what they feel and what opens
them and what closes them andyou know, what they think about.
I mean, what I've come to see inmy own life and also working
with students is even if we'retalking about fantasies, like it
doesn't mean that because I havethis fantasy, I need you to play
out the fantasy with me.

(27:46):
It's the closeness that happenswhen you know this part of me
that I have this little kinky,you know, corner I go to that
turns me on and I got, and Itrust you so much that I'm
sharing this part of myself withyou and no, I don't wanna play
it out.
There's a lot of shit we desirethat we don't actually wanna
experience.
It's more a delight in our mindthan it is something we would

(28:09):
delight it in person.
That's kind of what I'mimagining when I hear you say
that.

Briana (28:13):
You're exactly right.
And that's an, that's an exampleof, of, of exactly what I'm
trying to talk about, which isthat.
It's not even necessarily thatthe goal or objective in talking
about it, was to go act onsomething.
Although it can be.
Just the, just the connectionfrom the verbal communication,
the showing yourself, theunzipping yourself.
There's so much vulnerability init.
Talking about sex, talking aboutthe bedroom absolutely will

(28:39):
improve and translate intofeeling more present in the
bedroom.
It also kills insecuritysometimes, right?
So,

Leah (28:47):
Ah, yeah,

Briana (28:48):
yeah, anytime we can name a problem, everyone knows
that, right?
Like admitting a problem, youknow, really, really, you know,
makes it shrink.
So

Leah (28:57):
the charge comes off of it a bit.

Briana (28:59):
Yeah, it does.
Right?
So, you know, when we candiscuss something openly and,
and in a really safe way.
And safe meaning like, is thisperson gonna judge me?
Are they gonna snarl?
Am I, are they gonna weaponizethis against me?
They're gonna throw it in myface when we argue it's gonna be
used against me, or are theygonna receive the ball that I'm
throwing and it's gonna go okay.

(29:19):
So if we can kind of get to thatspace with talking, it really
will be a testament to overallthe investment you're making in
this partnership and howconnected you all you all are.
So you've got a couple that thesex isn't happening, you know,
we're, we're doing the eightforms of intimacy.
I think that's certainly stepone or like a really top couple.
Um, the other piece with thatwould be, instead of us feeling

(29:39):
like we have this mountain toclimb, where we're gonna go,
they're gonna go have this likeporn star.
Uh, the toys and back to thenovelty thing sex.
What if we just mastereddiscussing it?
Just talking about it?
That feels far more achievableand sometimes less scary.
It depends, but sometimes lessscary.
So we could just start withhaving really beautiful
conversations about how apartner feels or things.

(30:02):
And you can even go so back tothat, where it's like the least
close to actually sex.
And talk about like what you sawyour parents do, your
relationship with sex as youwere growing up.
What happened if a scene came onthe tv?
Did someone be like, you know,gross or, I don't know why they
include this, or they turned itoff, or, you know, were, how,
what was the birds and and beestalk like from your parents.

(30:25):
Those are kind of like funny

Willow (30:26):
Those are really

Briana (30:27):
conversations.
Yeah.

Willow (30:29):
Yeah.
those are really good likeactual questions and cues and,
and things for people to talkabout.
'cause gosh, as you're, asyou're sitting here talking
about, you know, have more openconversations about sexuality,
I'm like, I am so far down theother side of the spectrum where
I talk about sex all day longwith every single person that I

(30:49):
meet.
So, like, uh, I can't, it's hardfor

Leah (30:52):
you are like, you wanna talk anal?

Willow (30:53):
yeah, I'm like, it's hard for me.
I have to like curb myconversation with people.
I have to dial it down.
So it's hard for me to evenrelate that

Leah (31:02):
So are you a,

Willow (31:03):
talking about it.
So I'm really appreciative ofthese specific questions, like a
good starting point for acouple.
You know, like, what, what's, Imean, I often will ask people,
what's your relationship to yoursexuality?
And that even can be sometimes alittle bit too much of a
daunting question.
Like, I don't know, you know,they don't have an answer for

(31:24):
it.

Briana (31:25):
It can feel really broad to receive what's your
relationship like with sex,unless you've got like a little
bit more of a senior clientthat's kinda like a therapy
veteran.
And yeah, I think a great way towalk that back and make it more
bite-sized to kinda like getthem there is the whole

Willow (31:38):
Yeah.

Briana (31:39):
birds and bees talk.
What'd you see on the tv?
Uh, what did mom and dad say?
Did you ever walk in on them?
Did you see one

Willow (31:45):
Was there, was there an MTV video that really turned you
on?
You know which one

Briana (31:50):
Oh yeah.

Willow (31:50):
guys was, um, white wedding.

Leah (31:53):
Oh really?
I like November rain

Willow (31:56):
Oh, that one was hot too.

Briana (31:59):
that is a great question.

Willow (32:01):
That's a good one for you all out there.

Leah (32:03):
But, I like that, like who taught you about sex and what
did the church have to say aboutsex?
What did your parents, were yourparents virginal or you know,
were, did they overexpose you tosex?
I mean, there's all these thingsthat happen that do inform our
condition to response

Willow (32:18):
and also.

Leah (32:18):
you understand your partner and their reactions A
ton.
If you can get underneath.
Like what that was like as intheir formative years because
it's there.

Willow (32:31):
I think too, like what, what was your first sexual
experience like Did you, like,did you enjoy it?
You know?
'cause I feel like for a lot ofwomen, they just kind of go
through it and do it and fumbleand da da and guys are like
trying, they're like, yeah, Ienjoyed it, but I just still was
just making it up as I wentalong and didn't really know.
And so even just for yourself tospeak that out loud with a

(32:53):
partner, like what, identifying,what was that first, first
couple of sexual experienceslike for you?
I remember kissing a boy in thecloset with like skates digging
into my back, my girlfriend'sroller skates.
And we were in the closet, wewere like 16 years old and

Leah (33:09):
Yeah.
The things you end.
Yeah.

Willow (33:11):
was like so uncomfortable because I had
fucking roller skates in myback.
You know, the kissing wasn'tgood.
It was 16-year-old, didn't knowwhat we were doing, but

Leah (33:19):
Yeah.
I'm

Briana (33:20):
I love that question.

Leah (33:22):
um, now do you, do your clients come to you with things
like they're getting over, uh,cheating, infidelity, trauma,
or.
You know, they did sharesomething really vulnerable.
Maybe it's a kink that theyhave, you know, maybe it was
something, and the otherpartner's just judging them and
shaming them.

(33:42):
Like how could, how could thatever turn you on?
And they're totally stuckbecause one person's in disgust
and the other person's like,crushed.
You just yucked My yum.
And how do we get through that?

Briana (33:54):
Yeah, I, I don't so much have partners that shared, you
know, a kink or something likethat, and their, and the
receptivity just, just wasn'tthere.
The reason, well, okay.
The reason why I think I don'tsee that very much is I think
that the clients coming to mewouldn't even be in a position
on their own where they'd besharing that kink to even be,
and have the

Leah (34:14):
haven't even,

Briana (34:15):
the client or the, the partner reject them or make them
experience shame.

Willow (34:20):
Mm.

Briana (34:21):
So I think my clients are being, um, you know, very,
um, discerning and incrediblybuttoned up and maybe not
entirely forthcoming.
So that's probably why Iwouldn't see that.
So, not that the kinks don'texist and aren't there, it's
that they would sort of befighting against the typical
therapy client if they areanywhere in a position to sort

(34:42):
of share this, this thing aboutthem.
Um, my clients typically knowthat maybe would not land well
and would anticipate shame andjudgment from their partner and
then avoid it entirely.

Leah (34:52):
What about infidelity?

Briana (34:54):
Infidelity.
Absolutely.
I see people that are recoveringfrom infidelity or are trying to
repair after such a big ruptureand it can be quite painful.
And I have all the empathy forthat and, and it's certainly
understandable and, and you'vegot these, you know, really hard
thing with that is holding spacefor both partners experience
with this because you feel likeyou wanna just emphasize the

(35:17):
quote victim, right?
The the person that was cheatedon.
But we have to.
Also for things to really work,focus on the cheater in that
they got there.
Perhaps for some reason, I'm notmaking excuses for them, that's
different.
But a lot of times when wechoose to cheat, there was some
sort of journey.

(35:37):
There was some origin story tothat villain, right?
Hey, I, I felt like a, a loserin my house.
I felt insecure.
I, I, I felt like my masculinitywas being questioned or I didn't
feel desired as a woman.
And there was this guy and hemade me feel, seen and special
and heard.
And so when we do therapy, wehave to talk about all of that
too, because it's incrediblyvaluable.

(35:57):
But that's difficult, right?
Because it does feel like I'mmaking excuses for the partner,
or they're getting to sort oftell their justifications.
And it's not about that.
It's, it's simply if we reallywanna understand each other and,
and rebuild from this incident,then we will have to look at
kind of all these contributingfactors.
And then as far as sort ofenacting things.

(36:18):
That would improve thecircumstance.
It's um, one, walking throughthe noise, right?
Talking in a controlled settingabout the, the, the pain that
this caused the partner.
And then again, listening in anon-judgmental way about how the
partner got there to the otherpartner, got there to begin
with.
And going to those basics withthe intimacy again, you know,
maybe sex is not gonna be on thetable for a while, it just feels
too unsafe.

(36:38):
So we're gonna build safety insome of those other categories
to kind of get back there.
And then another thing about,um, recovering from infidelity
is that we do wanna have quite,uh, like, um, boundary setting
conversations.
Like what do you guys want thisto look like moving forward?
You know, from, are we sharingeach other's phone passwords?
Are we tracking locations?
What does that look like foryou?
Are you wanting check-ins nowwhen they leave, you know, what

(37:02):
is it that you're asking for?
What are your asks to help yousort of get through some of
this, this hump?

Leah (37:09):
Right.
Yeah.
I imagine that could be a placewhere people get really stuck.
It's like, um, sometimes therecan be the asks are because of,
so, because the trust has beenso shattered, the asks might
feel like really invasive orcontrolling.
And do you.

(37:30):
You know how much, right do youhave to go, no, I'm actually
not.
Okay.
I'm not willing to do that.
Can we find a workaround?
Uh, that must, I bet people getstalled right there.

Briana (37:42):
They absolutely do.
And you're, you're right.
And that's couple by couple.
It's, it's not for me to say,someone's going, Hey, this is,
I'm, this is where I'm at rightnow.
I need your phone password, Iwant your location shared.
I want check-ins.
Okay.
Alright.
They can ask for it.
And so let's have a conversationabout that.
And if the other partner'sgoing, absolutely not.
That feels, um, you know, thatjust feels maniacal and I, and

(38:05):
I, and I'm not comfortable withthat.
I'm not gonna do that.
Okay.
And now at least we're in thiscontrolled setting where the
other partner can say, I'minternalizing that then as you
still don't love me, you don'tcare enough about the pain that
I'm in to do those things, tojump through these hoops, and
then we can talk about that.
So no matter what greatproductive, valuable
conversation points, that, Yeah,that's a part of the infidelity

(38:28):
um, sort of treatment isfiguring out what does this need
to look like?
What's realistic?
What are the partners ask, youknow, what are your boundaries?
Is there a before and is therekind of an after this incident
and you know how we're gonnabehave differently?

Willow (38:43):
Uh, what, what's a typical sort of journey like
that a couple will go through inwhen they're working with you?
I mean, do they kind of come inand just start with, with, uh,
with no sort of like a threemonth container or, you know, or
do you sort of hold them in, youknow, sections of, of
containment, sort of as, asthey're going through their

(39:06):
evolution together?

Leah (39:08):
Um, what are you asking?
Like how, what's the length oftime?

Willow (39:11):
Yeah, just like, is it kind of open-ended?
Like sometimes you step intotherapy and it's like, oh, I'm
just gonna go to therapy once aweek for the rest of my life.
And other times there's morelike a, you know, this is a
three month journey and thenwe'll reassess.

Leah (39:24):
Yeah.
Have you noticed like, um, apattern of time that someone
really needs to have somestick-to-itness?
Because I could see how people,you know, they start the
process, it gets hard, and thenthey just give

Willow (39:36):
Yeah.
You

Leah (39:36):
I imagine having, like, you need to commit to this
because there's gonna be momentswhere you're gonna wanna quit
and there needs to be someaccountability for you sticking
with it.
I don't know how, how does thatwork?

Briana (39:48):
Yeah, you're right in that, you know, it's gotta have
some longevity to it for us toreally move this needle.
This isn't like a, when you feellike it or on occasion thing,
right?
So I hope that somebody iscommitted to coming in at a
cadence that makes sense forgrowth.
So weekly, every other week,something like that.
But if somebody drops off, youknow, I really don't do anything

(40:11):
about that.
I mean, I, you know, I mightshoot someone a text and say,
just checking in with you, butthat's the limit.
I, you know, everyone takestheir own approach.
My personal approach is, um, youuse your free will.
If you, you know, don't feelcomfortable continuing to invest
in this, I'm not going to pursueor chase you.
Um, I have a very, like, we'reall adults here, kind of thing
with it.
But as far as sort of gettingahead.

(40:33):
Of it.
I will discuss with people whatthis path ahead may look like,
and I will talk with them about,it may get worse before it gets
better.
I'll also talk with people aboutemotional hangovers and that
you're coming in here, we're nottalking about what's going
great.
We're typically only talkingabout like bad stuff.
So if you're coming in and justoffloading, Hey, I'm, I'm
feeling this way, I'm, I'mfeeling insecure, I've lost

(40:55):
myself, I'm, I'm lonely.
Um, this is what I'm facing inmy relationship.
You're maybe not gonna bewalking out, you know,
frolicking through daisies.
You, you might have a little bitof a.
A dark cloud over you for acouple of days.
So I get ahead of some stuff tokind of dispel it.
And again, like the theme oftoday when you talk about it, it
really sort of pops this big,big heavy bubble.
And so we'll talk about that.

(41:15):
I'll talk about a, an anappropriate cadence that I
recommend weekly, biweekly.
And I will also talk about, youknow, if you are in a
relationship as couples, uh,therapy, something that, that
you are interested in.
Um, and we will cross thatbridge when, when someone gets
there.
'cause often, more often thannot, I'm even surprised by it,
individuals will come in withthe intention of couples coming,

(41:35):
but they'll go by themselvesfirst to feel things out.
You know, perhaps, especially ifthey feel like the other party
is a little bit more resistant,they're gonna wanna try to curb
risk.
Maybe they're thinking, this is,I know I'm only gonna drag them
in here one time, so I gottamake sure, you know, this goes
okay.
And I get an understanding ofthis environment because, you
know, it's, it's gotta go wellwhen I bring them in.
I, I, I, you know, I, I'm, I'mdragging them with me.

(41:57):
So I see that a lot as, as well.
Um, but you know, I personallywas in therapy for.
I dunno, three or four years.
Um, and I really want people tounderstand that you might come
in for a crisis.
I know I'm biased, but I'm gonnaencourage everyone to go, even
when that crisis calms, youstill have decades of life

(42:18):
before that crisis and patternsand deep-seated things and, uh,
you know, that stuff.
Um, I'm not saying it takesyears to dismantle.
I'm saying that just thisjourney of life is something
that, you know, on a, on a weekto week basis throws you
additional lemons that you'vegotta navigate.
And some of these voices in ourhead have been that way for 30
years, 40

Leah (42:38):
Right.

Briana (42:39):
Yeah.
That's a lot to, yeah.

Willow (42:41):
and old patterns of protection run so

Leah (42:44):
they've been going on for so long that it's gonna take a
minute to re-pattern, you know,how you wanna respond to it.

Willow (42:50):
I'm curious if, um, if you do, if you do any kind of
somatic, uh, release, likegetting into the, the
physicality of the body or if,um, a lot of the therapy that
you're using is, um, you know,more geared toward like, let's
yeah cognitive and also likeconversational and giving them

(43:13):
tools and how to, how to haveconversation and communication
and all that.

Briana (43:17):
I don't do somatic work.
If someone is really interestedin that, I will refer them out.
Um, mine is based onneuroscience, so the brain, so
helping understand people orhelping people understand why we
do what we do from a biologicalstandpoint.
And also, uh, EFT, which iscalled emotionally focused
therapy, and CBT, which, youknow, everyone's familiar with,

(43:38):
typical a lot of people are,which is cognitive behavioral
therapy.
Those are both sort of, of acognitive type of nature, sort
of intellectual kind of thinghappening there.
EFT, emotionally focusedtherapy, um, is my favorite
though, above all.
And that is because I myselfstruggle with that the most on
a, on a personal level.

(43:58):
So for me and my journey, EFT iswhat took me to the next level
of like self-actualization andquality of life and, and, and
all of

Willow (44:10):
What does it stand for again?
EFT

Briana (44:12):
emotionally focused therapy.

Willow (44:14):
Emotionally focused.
Okay.
So tell us a little bit aboutlike that process and how that

Briana (44:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I think it really isphenomenal and really, really,
really, uh, checks a lot ofboxes for people that are in
corporate America or neurotic,high achievers, ambitious
people, things like that.
Because getting into

Willow (44:31):
Type a kind of more rigid kind of people who have a
hard time feeling theiremotional body.
I have the hardest time coachingthose people'cause I'm like, can
you just feel, they're like,nah, don't feel anything.
I'm like, come on, it's inthere.
And they just have no sensation.
So.
Okay.
I am so excited about EFT.
I only know EFT as emotionalfreedom technique, like the
tapping stuff, but this istotally different.

Briana (44:54):
Yes.
And I, I know what you'retalking about.
Right.
And, and some people to have itas, um, um, family origin
therapy as well.
So all the acronyms are, there'sa lot

Leah (45:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Willow (45:02):
all they're all in bed together, those

Briana (45:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but EFT, emotionally focusedtherapy, right?
Is, is, it's, uh, great forcouples.
It's primarily tailored tocouples, but it applies to
individuals as well.
Right?
But if we've got somebody whoquite genuinely, you know,
they're not lying as, you know,they're not bluffing, I don't
feel it.
What do you mean?
Do I feel it in my body?
I, I don't, I'm just feel likeI'm sitting here and we're
talking and that's all I cangive you.

(45:27):
Or you'll have a client thatsays, I don't know, not even
about their body, but just aboutmaking sense of something.
I don't, I don't know.
I see clients desperatelywanting to answer me, but they,
they can't.
So I will ask them certainthings sometimes as a litmus
test to kind of figure out whereare we at with this?
And EFT really applies to thosethat are a little bit lost in

(45:47):
feeling connected to themselves.
for example, when I said, whatresult are you hoping to find?
They'll eventually say like,clarity about something.
And then I would latch onto thatclarity about why.
Why is that clarity significant?
And then they probably wouldeventually say, if I lose my
health, I lose everything.

Willow (46:02):
Mm

Leah (46:03):
Yeah.

Briana (46:04):
what's it like to feel like that's even possible that's
on

Leah (46:07):
Yeah, so her resp, a lot of her responses were like,
well, strong resistance towanting to go to the feeling
part.
It was like, you know, I, and,and one point when I, you know,
brought it to the feeling, itwas a lot of it was centered
around a.
A real resistance, wanna go tothat angle instead wanting to
stay solution based and notfeeling based.
She's like, look, I'm, I'm superlike up here.

(46:30):
I'm in my head.
Like, it's not really down here.
Um, so, you know, where we, theconclusion we really got to was,
you know, what is something thatyou can do today If it's not an
either or, if it's not about notgoing down the rabbit hole,
maybe the rabbit hole can be areward, but what are two things
that you could do today thatwould satisfy the urge of no, of

(46:53):
doing something that you knowwould be better, even if it's
hard to like commit to, youknow, you know, and so she was
able to go, I'm gonna put apost-it note here, and then I'm
gonna, I'm going to get thesetwo things done and at the end,
um, I am gonna, you know, dosomething with my husband.
So like she was able to identifyand get herself out of the state
of, okay, I'm just looping intoavoidance.

(47:15):
But she never really wanted todrop into the emotion.
And I thought that that wasreally interesting.
And she is this very highfunctioning

Briana (47:23):
Yes.

Leah (47:24):
really has like not in the mood to do emotions that day.

Willow (47:27):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.

Briana (47:28):
This person is my exact client.
I actually work with people thatquite literally feel stuck or
feel like they're suffering fromprocrastination or the piles of
clothes are mountains, butthey're accomplishing a ton at
work and all of that.
So this, like what you'redescribing is my exact client.
I don't do anythingsolution-based.
So no post-its no specific this,no like holding you accountable

(47:49):
to this diet, like, you know,figuratively, none of that.
Right.
So for my client, I'm thinkingof one, she's an older black
female, which is importantbecause she had the exact same
issue you were describing.
She said, you know, or I said, Iguess, you know, she describes
like how she's living today andshe wasn't living that way
before.

Leah (48:07):
this is a good example, the difference between coaching
and therapy.

Willow (48:10):
Mm-hmm.

Briana (48:11):
yeah.

Leah (48:11):
which I think is a good thing to identify for you with
one of your questions beingaround, um, uh, sexology and
therapy.
So it, it was a good thing tohighlight.
Uh, I'll kind of

Briana (48:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, you're exactly right.
Coaching is different and Iforget that.
I, I forget that.
Um, yeah, I do have to tellpeople about that sometimes
because they'll want to know.
What is the answer?
And that is coaching versus thiswoman that I was thinking of
that sounds exactly like yourclient.
She is thriving now.
We're probably eight months inand I'm so proud of her.
She's accomplishing her to-dolist, so she's getting the same

(48:43):
result as far as like thepost-its and like she's getting
her life back.
She's, she has lost some weight.
She did get a promotion at work,like we're seeing the needle
move in all these very tangiblecategories.
But how we got there because shewould go home and do her own
post-its or whatever she wasdoing, I don't even know that
she already knew how to do.
'cause she had lived that lifebefore.
She had lived that life 10 yearsago while we identified, right

(49:04):
is she lost herself and in thisaging process and a menopause
and all these things, shedecided, you know, I'm not
really worth it anymore.

Willow (49:14):
Mm-hmm.

Briana (49:16):
worth it.
Like, who's watching me?

Leah (49:18):
the meaning underneath it

Briana (49:20):
watching me.
No one knows.
No one knows if I wash my hairand floss today or if I just
brush my teeth once, like no oneknows, no one's watching me.
So it was through that and some,some items with her cultural
identity, um, that she'dexperienced.
And that was actually how wesort of pulled out from this
rut.
And then she can go on on herown and kind of, she knows what,

(49:42):
what to employ to like, makethis stuff happen.
And then even just coming backto me, right?
Somebody who is watching now isreally beautiful, right?
I care and I wanna hear aboutthis report back to me.
And so that's, you know, kind ofhow we did that.
So yes, that makes sense.
What an interesting moment,right?

Leah (49:56):
I love that through osmosis these are two people
that can reach the same place,but using a different modality.

Briana (50:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

Leah (50:06):
Alright.
Well love, love, love.
So good to meet you Brianna.
Um, thank you and enjoy the restof the interview and I really
wish I could blow it off andkeep hanging out.

Willow (50:18):
We'll see you soon.

Leah (50:19):
Okay.
Ciao.

Briana (50:21):
Bye.

Willow (50:21):
Bye love.
All right, so give us, um, justto kind of wrap up this
emotional focus therapy ortechnique.
Um, what, what is sort of like,what's the kind of rundown, like
what are you looking for whenyou are, you know, supporting
someone using this particulartherapy?

Briana (50:42):
I'm looking to help someone cut through the noise of
their head and it probably beingat volume 11 and exhausting.
And they might be bullyingthemselves and have like this
negative self talk.
And I wanna cut through all ofthat and strip things all the
way back to the tiniest layerthat we can possibly slice it
to, which is, you know, forexample, I'm stressed about X,

(51:05):
Y, Z.
And if we were to strip thatback, like 10 steps, it's, if I
don't do this, he'll leave me.

Willow (51:13):
Ah, yeah, yeah,

Briana (51:14):
I won't provide value anymore.
I won't be enough, and that'swhat I wanna work on.
So I want to eat into that.
And when you have high achieversor corporate people, or you
know, the neurotic people, theywant to go to this very
intellectual space, this verycognitive space.
And that's totally fair.
I personally identify with that.
So I think EFT helps withoutsaying how do you feel, but

(51:37):
getting down to what all thesefears in your pattern, sort of
what they mean if you were tolet them go.
And it's usually some sort oflike, I'm gonna be a loser.
I'm gonna be a loser.

Willow (51:47):
right.
Which that is like the worstthing that these high achieving
people wanna be.
Right.
This sounds like a great therapyfor anyone who's like in that,
you know, in that corporate kindof mentality and a world, and in
the more just like, what's the,what's the solution and what's
the goal?
Like, where, where am I headingwithout, um, just to get them

(52:07):
to, you know, to take off allthe layers of pressure so that
they can actually identify, oh,I am afraid that underneath it
all, you know, I won't, I'll,I'll lose my partner, or I'll
lose my work job, or whatever itis.

Briana (52:22):
Yeah.
And to hear someone say, youknow, I'll lose my partner, you
know, you can go so far withthat.
Wow.
So in all of this, we're afraidwe'll lose our partner.
What happens if you lose yourpartner

Willow (52:39):
right.

Briana (52:40):
and be alone and be alone?
What happens if you're alone?
What's the point at that point?
Right.
So when we get everything backto these like very, very
foundational layers, they can bequite jarring.
And I think in that space.
The feelings can come, andthat's a great strategy for our

(53:01):
intellectuals, our supercognitive people that are very
dissociated from our body andour, our feelings and things
like that.
And say, I don't know, and Idon't feel anything, and I don't
know what you're talking about.
That's a good way to get to itbecause when they're behaving in
all of these ways and these highachievers, there's something
motivating that that's passed.
Like to get a promotion.

(53:22):
Okay.
Well, what would it mean to getthe promotion?
Oh, it'd be, I made more money.
What would it mean to make moremoney?
Well, I'd, I'd, I'd be able totake that trip.
Oh, what would it mean to takethat trip?
And you know, at first they'relike, you know, maybe even
thinking like, how dumb do youthink I am asking me these
questions?
You're asking me the samequestion 10 times, but I
guarantee you what you know, bythe end of that, they're like,
damn,

Willow (53:41):
Yeah.

Briana (53:41):
that is what

Willow (53:42):
What?
And I like that it's orientedtoward what, like what does it
mean to, you know, what is thecatalyst underneath it all?
You know, what, what's reallydriving you?
Where's your aeros live?
Like, where's your desire?
What is it that is really like,really fueling you to, um,
behave and act in the, and dothe things that you're doing

Briana (54:05):
Yeah.
And so empowering.
Yeah.
And so empowering to identifythat.
Right?
So what would it mean to get thepromotion, oh, make more money.
What would it mean to make moremoney?
I'd be able to go on more trips.
What would it mean to go on atour, whatever, whatever.
And maybe we drill that all theway down into someone will wanna
date me, I'll be likable enough,right?
Or you know, whatever, you know?
Oh.

(54:25):
So we're in a place where wefeel like we have to earn
likability.
Now we're like cracking somecodes and then in them
identifying that now we can, wecan really build upon that.

Willow (54:36):
Oh, what I'm really noticing, what's really cool to
me,'cause I use a lot of somaticemotional release work, you
know, in my work.
So I'm always like, where do youfeel it, what does it feel like?
What does it look like?
What does it sound like?
What's it telling you?
Dah dah, dah, you know, that.
So it's very similar in thatit's like, we're digging, we're
digging, we're going deeper.
What's underneath that?
What's, what's underneath that?

(54:57):
But I guess I'm alwaysapproaching it more from like,
where is it in your body, youknow, from a more somatic
standpoint.
But, but I love this emotionallyemotional focused technique.
'cause I think that's, um, sovaluable for, for people who are
not oriented toward theiremotions, you know, they're more
oriented toward their, theirthoughts.

Briana (55:19):
It is very valuable and it's almost like, I wonder if
you and your approach ormodality would be the, like
next,

Willow (55:28):
Next

Briana (55:28):
they've graduated?

Willow (55:29):
they've done that.
Yeah, that's kind of what I wasthinking.
Yeah.

Briana (55:33):
you know,

Willow (55:33):
like, I'm gonna send my people to you first who I can't
get through to, and then yousend yours to

Briana (55:39):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Mm-hmm.

Willow (55:41):
I love it.
That's great.
Well, I love that you made theshift and I'm, I'm curious maybe
in closing, you know, how, um,how has like your, your high
achievement in the executive andthe corporate world, like how
did all of that, how has thataugmented and supported your

(56:02):
journey in doing this work and,and being, you know, the high
level therapist that you arebecause of, you know, everything
that you had already curatedinside of yourself.

Briana (56:16):
I think it's, um, afforded me this in, in
incredible ability to seethrough exteriors, right?
And see through resumes.
So understanding that veryaccomplished people are still
suffering.
Maybe even they're, they're kindof like a little bit of a
forgotten class'cause they'refunctioning just fine.
Like the house isn't necessarilyon fire.

(56:36):
There's not some incredibletrauma that's happening.
So it's afforded me that I alsothink.
It's made me a little bitresults driven, so that's kind
of nice, right?
I'm like, Hey, let's, let'stackle this thing.
Like let's be motivated togetherand let's like keep some
momentum.
And that's all that corporatebackground showing up being like
results, results.

(56:56):
R-O-I-R-O-I, you know, but Ithink that compliments stuff
really nicely.
Right?
And, you know, being able totalk with somebody who is over
intellectualizing things and istrying desperately to make sense
of things, but feel like theycan't.
However, those same approachesserve them beautifully in all
their other categories of life,right?
In the boardroom or at theoffice, or even at the gym or,

(57:18):
or something.
Let me web MD this and likefigure it out.
But none of that is working.
None of that's, none of that'sworking.
Because of my corporatebackground is how I'm able to
identify that client thatresonates with me.
And I can like explain whatthey're, what they're doing and
they love data.
And the neuroscience angle isalso really advantageous because
That's helpful.
So helpful.

Willow (57:38):
Oh, that's so cool.
I love it.
I love that there's differentflavors for everyone out there
in the world.
You know, it's just, it's so,it's so good to know you are
there and doing the work thatyou're doing and, you know, and
that I can send people your waywho, um, who are not quite ready
for, you know, my medicine.
So I think it's just, it's sogreat and I'm just, I am

(57:59):
grateful that, uh, you know,that we got to, that.
We got to just get to know youmore today and, and know this,
this work that you're up to.
And, um, yeah.
Is there any, um, where canpeople find you?
What's your website, socialmedia, places to tune into you?

Briana (58:14):
Yep.
Website is just my name, Briannabass.org.
Super simple.
B-R-I-A-N-A bass.org.
And then the socials are BriannaBass therapy.
Also easy.

Willow (58:23):
Okay, cool.
Great.
All right, love.
Well, fantastic to sit with youtoday.
And, um, yeah, any, any wisewords of wisdom in closing,

Briana (58:34):
I go to therapy.

Willow (58:36):
go to therapy.
I love it.

Briana (58:37):
if you're not in crisis,

Willow (58:39):
Even if you're not good, go for no reason.
I

Briana (58:42):
I bet you we can find a reason.

Willow (58:43):
Oh, I'm sure.
I'm sure there's, there's alwayssomething.

Briana (58:47):
Yeah.

Willow (58:48):
I love it.
All right, y'all, well have a,um, a blessed day and we'll see
you on the next show.

Announcer (58:53):
Now our favorite part, the dish.

Willow (58:57):
I found so much of value in the, what we were talking
about at the end with theemotional.
Focus, emotional focustechnique.
Um, because you know, there's,like I was saying in the
interview, there's so manypeople that I have a hard time
helping'cause they just can'tget outta their heads and they
can't get in their bodies,

Leah (59:15):
Sometimes they refuse to get out of their heads, you
know, and they actually don'twanna go into their body

Willow (59:21):
Totally.

Leah (59:22):
up.

Willow (59:23):
Somehow I can always get people into their bodies no
matter who they are.
But, um, boy, some of them Ijust wanna send'em to her in the
future.
We were giggling at the end.
We're like, uh,'cause after youleft we're like, uh.
Yeah, well maybe I might besending some of my people to
you.
You send, she's like, yeah,after they work with me, they
should work with you.
I'm like, yeah, before they workwith me, they should work with

(59:45):
you.
But uh, and then the other thingthat I really dug, I really
loved, which I am sure I'veheard this before, but I I
hadn't remembered it so clearlywith was those seven, you know,
from psychology, the sevendifferent styles?
No, it's seven.
No, it's seven

Leah (01:00:04):
Oh, okay.
You counted it up.
Okay.

Willow (01:00:05):
I, yeah.
And so, um, you know, differentkinds of intimacy.
So in honor of my manifestationprocess of my future life
partner, which y'all know, I'mdoing religiously all the time.
Um, this morning I wrote themall out.
I was like, oh, I just love theway we're so emotionally

(01:00:26):
connected and so intellectuallyconnected and sexually
amazingly, you know, and justall the things and the dreaming
together, the experiential, thisspiritual and the, the
creativity stuff.
You know, how fun, how fun touse those seven things inside of
your already existingpartnership and really like, pay
attention to one each week orone every other day.

(01:00:48):
You know, like give one ofthose.
Seven intimacy buildingpractices like, uh, an actual
period time period, you know,where you're like focused in on
that one and just see whathappens to all the others.
Or if you're still, um, callingit in, you know, use it for
manifestation.
Cool.

Leah (01:01:08):
Yeah.
You know, one of the things, ifI could just give unsolicited
advice, you know, to you andothers out there is.
A manifests someone you fightwell with,

Willow (01:01:17):
Yeah.

Leah (01:01:17):
you know, like who takes a look at disagreements and
obstacles and triggers and wantsto make the most out of them.

Willow (01:01:27):
Yeah.

Leah (01:01:27):
You know, I've been really grateful for Matt, uh, for our
last couple of rubs, um, becausehe would like, you know, would
kind of end in a disagreement,like not feeling very satisfied,
right?
Like, like, did he get me, uh,does he feel gotten, I don't
feel like we really foundresolution, but one of the

(01:01:48):
things that I'm just knowingthat I can count on him for, and
I know he can count on me forthis too, it's like he'll come
back within 24 hours and say,Hey, I want you to know.
I was thinking more about that.

Willow (01:02:00):
Mm.

Leah (01:02:00):
And it's like, it's so, even if it's like, uh uh,
something isn't quite finished,like it's, we didn't get the
resolution that made us feellike, oh, we're so good now.
We get there later.
Like he doesn't drop the thread.
He doesn't bury it underneaththe rug.
It's like, maybe we need to takea break'cause we're not finding
a piece, but we're gonna chew onit on our own and we'll circle

(01:02:23):
back.

Willow (01:02:23):
That's very evolved.
Evolved, enduring pattern.

Leah (01:02:27):
Yeah.

Willow (01:02:28):
I love that.

Leah (01:02:29):
Yeah, but I think what's not enduring, although it might
look like enduring, it's theydon't stay stuck, which isn't in
pattern, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe it's the light side whenyou're doing enduring pattern.

Willow (01:02:41):
Yeah.
'cause it's, you know, still,still ruminating off on your own
and taking some time to processand to figure it out.
And then coming back with like,here's what I've figured out.
You know?

Leah (01:02:51):
you know, one place where we have been really staying
stuck and we haven't had abreakthrough around is we need
to do our estate planning

Willow (01:02:59):
Oh, okay.

Leah (01:03:00):
and, uh, should one of us die?
What goes where?
And to who?
And I'm surprised that it hasn'tbeen like a walk in the park.
But we aren't seeing eye to eyeon some things, and it has
caused us to keep delaying this,

Willow (01:03:17):
Ah,

Leah (01:03:18):
and I don't really know.

Willow (01:03:21):
Wonder if you guys could do a bubble practice around it?

Leah (01:03:24):
Oh, that's a good idea.

Willow (01:03:25):
Yeah, try that.

Leah (01:03:28):
Do you guys remember, uh, audience members, the bubble?
We did it recently on an LXWepisode, but it's a cool
practice where basically you're,for a, for a difficult
conversation or for just apractice, any kind of practice,
you create a bubble and you takethings out of the bubble that
you don't want to interfere, andyou put things into the bubble

(01:03:49):
that would support the practice.
Good idea, Willow.

Willow (01:03:52):
Yeah, sometimes they come through.

Leah (01:03:54):
Yeah.
So yeah, wish us luck on thosedifficult conversations.
You know, the other thing Iwanted to say on the episode,
but didn't get a chance to say,is to talk about getting therapy
before you need therapy.

Willow (01:04:08):
Yeah.
She said that at the very end.
Yes, she did.
She said it very loudly andclearly.
It was great.
She said, you know, I said, anyfinal words of wisdom?
She said, go get therapy even ifyou don't think you need it.
I was like, oh, okay.
I don't have time for therapy.
I don't think I need it, but ifI had time, I might do it.

(01:04:29):
It might be relaxing.

Leah (01:04:31):
Matt and I started therapy again, but we only had one
session.
We haven't gone back.
We haven't rebooked I think wejust started to feel really good
again.

Willow (01:04:38):
Mm-hmm.
That's great.

Leah (01:04:39):
Um, yeah, but I could use, we could use, I want, I really
like super solid, really goodtherapists that, that, that I
don't outsmart,

Willow (01:04:49):
Yes.

Leah (01:04:49):
uh, so that they can call me on my shit.
Um,'cause I really know how towork'em.
Which is like, so not to myadvantage,

Willow (01:04:57):
I know, I know.

Leah (01:04:58):
as I was getting ready for this last like, therapist, just
going, Leah, do not do thatthing.
You

Willow (01:05:02):
Uhhuh, Uhhuh, Uhhuh

Leah (01:05:04):
been listening to, like, I've been binge listening to,
um, Esther Perel.
Yeah.
I'm getting so much out of it.

Willow (01:05:10):
She's a badass.

Leah (01:05:12):
she's amazing.
I'm seeing so many of these likeunconscious parts of myself.
Like she had this whole one onanger.
And I got so much insight as tolike how I get to like that
prickle place and like howsensitive I am to criticism and
like where that all comes from.

Willow (01:05:30):
my gosh.
Send me that one.

Leah (01:05:32):
Okay.
Yeah.
I'll, well anyways, suddenlyepisode's all about me, but we
can wrap it up here and I say,thanks Brianna.

Willow (01:05:42):
Much

Leah (01:05:42):
Yeah.

Announcer (01:05:43):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Briana Bass: Men Vs Women | The #1 Reason Couples Fight About Sex (And How To Fix It) | #162