August 19, 2025 • 62 mins
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If your partner feels more like a roommate than a lover, you're not alone. Most couples accept that passion naturally fades over time. But certified sexologist and naturopathic doctor, Dr. Diane Mueller reveals why this belief is not only false—it's actively sabotaging your intimacy. In this marriage saving episode, discover how sexual desire in marriage can actually improve with time when you understand the hidden science behind attraction.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
- The Practice Principle: Like learning an instrument, sexuality should improve with practice—but only if you keep adding new elements
- Dopamine Strategy: Plan intimate experiences in advance to recreate the anticipation that drives new relationship energy
- Safety First: Learn to distinguish between "this is hard" resistance vs. "I'm not ready" resistance using body awareness
- Embrace Awkwardness: Dr. Mueller and her partner literally banged heads during sex recently—awkward moments are normal and can be playful
- Holistic Approach: Perfect hormones don't automatically restore desire; you need to address physical, emotional, and communication factors together
AWAKENING THE GODDESS IN CRETE! Leah & Willow want to take you on an all-woman's tantric pilgrimage to Greece Oct 5-12, 2025! Join us for a trip of lifetime.
THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female Gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST 20
LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.
Willow (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Sex Reimagined
podcast.
I'm Dr.
Willow Brown.
I'm here with the one and onlyLeah Piper.
We are your co-host.
We are so grateful for all yourwonderful likes, shares, and
subscribes.
Now, today we have a littlequestion for you.
If your partner feels more likea roommate than a lover, than
(00:30):
you are not alone, and today'sguest says the real reason
passion fades has nothing to dowith attraction and everything
to do with biology,miscommunication, and a few
sneaky saboteurs no one istalking about.
So we're so excited to welcomeDr.
Diane Mueller aboard certifiedsexologist with dual doctorates
(00:53):
in naturopathic as well asacupuncture and oriental
medicine.
So I'm so excited about thisconversation, and she is the
founder of sex Education Centerand she is my libido do.com and
hosts the Libido Lounge podcast,which we were guests on.
And she really loves to helpmonogamous couples create more
(01:13):
passion, desire, hotter sex, andbetter communication.
So we are thrilled to have youwith us today, Diane.
Welcome.
Diane (01:20):
Thank you.
It's so good to be with youladies again.
And you know, if I can realquickly, just open this up with
a quick story on top of youramazing intro, one of the things
that first started waking me upto this topic we're talking
about today around sex actuallygetting better in long-term
relationships instead of worsewas when I was listening to a
(01:42):
lecture with the co-founder ofNLP Neurolinguistic Programming
Richard Bandler.
And he was telling a story ofwhen he was getting ready to get
married and people were like,well, you better have a lot of
sex now because it's gonna goaway later.
Like the sex is gonna go down,down, down, down, down.
(02:04):
And his response to this that hewas teaching just really
awakened something in me and hisresponse was, okay, so anything
else in life that we do we learna new instrument and we
practice, practice, practice,practice, practice.
We get better.
We learn a new language.
We practice, practice, practice,practice, practice.
We get better.
So.
He's like, so sex is this onething that you practice and get
(02:26):
worse at?
And so it didn't make any senseto him and it didn't make any
sense to me.
And that was a huge launch, thatkind of concept for a lot of the
work I do today.
Willow (02:37):
love that it is such a good story and it's so true.
It's like practicing sexualityis a practice.
It's a practice of getting toknow yourself in newer and more
intriguing ways day by day andgetting to know your partner.
Diane (02:50):
Yeah,
Leah (02:51):
the first thing that comes to mind when I hear you say that
is, yes, but what is theneurological differences between
someone practicing an instrumentversus someone having sex where
we've got lots of differentbrain chemistry being generated
in relationship to sex, and I'mcurious, like, is that different
when you're practicing or arepassionate about something like
(03:11):
learning to practice aninstrument or maybe for me would
be cooking.
Um, anyone, any, any of thedoctors in the room know the
answer to that question.
Diane (03:20):
Well, I, I've been asked this before, so the way I
describe the answer to this islike, think about learning
guitar and learning the G chordand the way you practice guitar
is not practicing the G chord.
Over and over and over and overagain.
You add a C, you add a D, youadd an A minor and you keep
adding new things and that's howyou get better at guitar.
(03:44):
So the difference is that whenwe are often practicing sex,
we're making love thatoftentimes because if left to
our own devices, what we wind updoing is we get into a sexual
script and we just practice theG chord.
Over and over and over again.
And if we did that with guitar,well, we would get really good
at the G chord, but we would notbe a great guitar player.
Leah (04:04):
And we get bored.
Yes.
Which is probably some
Willow (04:09):
would get bored listening to us.
Leah (04:11):
right?
Uh, in long-term relationshipsex.
As you get into that routine andyou get bored.
Great answer by the way.
Really love
Willow (04:17):
that's a good one.
It's a great metaphor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We love the metaphor of, oflearning to play an instrument
is, is so synonymous tosexuality because it, you know,
it does become an orchestra and,and a mu a really well fine
tuned musician who knows how toplay multiple instruments, like
the music moves through them,rather than them playing the
(04:39):
instruments, the instruments areplaying through them.
The same thing in sexuality,especially with Tantric,
spiritually connected sex.
It's like the, the energy of thesexuality starts to move you and
play through you rather than youdoing it.
It starts out as you doing it,but then you get into this
trance state where it takesover.
Diane (05:00):
Yeah.
Leah (05:01):
correlation you made there, Willow.
Um, because it is interestingwhen people are learning sexual
techniques and conscioussexuality and things like Taoist
practices and Tantra practiceswhere you become skillful as a
lover.
It's like that learning processof practicing and learning new
skill sets, and then finding theembodied knowledge to allow that
(05:23):
practice to be so internalizedthat it's no longer a skill or a
technique you're doing, it's away that you express yourself.
And, um, but there is alwayssort of that learning curve of
playing a guitar or learning anew sexual technique.
Let's, let's say G-spot massageor uh, prostate massage, where
you're a little clutsy at first.
You, you don't have the rhythm.
(05:44):
You, you don't know how to findthe beat until you practice
enough where it's like, oh, Iknow how to tap this.
I know how to take someone on aride when it comes to their,
their pleasure and how they'reopening and what they're
feeling, and so on and so forth.
So, I'm curious, Diane, I'm, Iknow that you, um An
acupuncturist and you've gotthis holistic practice.
(06:04):
Where are, where does thisinterfacing with couples start
from?
Or is it more therapeutic innature?
Are you teaching them skills inthe bedroom so that they're
better at sex?
What's your, like, what's thefirst door you're opening for
folks?
Diane (06:19):
It's a great question and it's, it's a challenging one,
right?
'cause a lot of my work isreally combining, like the
medical, the science, the labstuff with all the sexy stuff.
So I find that like, like in theprograms, in my courses.
I do give people access to a lotof things typically at once.
And so we do go through and say,well, are there hormone
(06:41):
imbalances?
Do you have sympatheticdominance, which most humans do?
Or is your, is your overwhelmrunning your life?
Do you have neurological issuesor pelvic floor dysfunctions?
Like those kind of like physicalthings.
Which have to be addressed.
And at the same time, the numberof times people have reregulated
their hormones and they'rehormonally perfect, but their
(07:03):
libido is low, they're still notlike, you know, their desires
down.
It's too many to count.
So we know that those things arehelpful and important to be in
line, but.
The way we bring novelty in theway we actually communicate with
our partner, the way we set timeaside for our pleasure practice.
All of these things actuallymake a big difference with the
(07:24):
arousal and the libido.
So in my work, a lot of what Ido is give people access to all
these areas.
And I often find that the placeto start is the place that
people feel most called to.
So if you tend to be more oflike, wow, you've loved the
science and all that, like, likeeverybody should look at the
medical side of things.
'cause it can be Im, you know,impactful.
(07:45):
But if your brain works in morethat analytical way, you might
be better like, like startingthere just to kind of get some
movement and then adding onthese other areas and other
people that maybe are more likethey, they feel the energy,
right?
And they just wanna, they're somuch more interested in actually
the embodiment side of things.
They might do better startingover in this other area to
(08:07):
practice that.
I find that it's just like thisvery, like beautiful meld of,
of, energy, like flowing indifferent ways and meaning
there's not like one fundamentalthing I've seen with arousal and
and libido where it's like youhave to do this first or it
doesn't work.
Willow (08:25):
Yeah.
I love that you're girl after myown heart here.
Love, love, love.
It's so, it's so all inclusive,you know, it's.
Like, and we just jump in as welearn.
In Chinese medicine, it's likeit's a big circle and you just
jump into the center of it andyou start pac manning your way
out from there, you start takingnibbles here and there, and you
digest what you can, and youassimilate what you can in the
(08:48):
moment, and then when you'reready for the next piece, you
move on to the next piece.
And every human being is sodifferent.
I always think of humans asthese four pillars.
Spiritual, emotional,psychological, and physical.
And so if you're really down inthe dumps with your physicality
and your fucking hormones aredriving you absolutely cuckoo
sauce, then yeah, you're gonnawanna start there.
(09:08):
But if you're like, eh, I have alittle bit of brain fog and I
get some night sweats, but hey,I've got some sexual repressed
trauma that I haven't dealt withand I know that, then yeah,
you're gonna wanna dive intothat psychological, um,
spiritual component first.
Leah (09:24):
I, I think it's interesting too because it makes
sense that people are gonnawanna start where they feel
their strengths.
So if they love sort of thephysiological, neurological
science of things, that's wherethey feel safe and comfortable.
They get to kind of feel thatthey're where they're
comfortable, they're in theircomfort zone first.
And then you can kind of take alook at, okay, now let's see
(09:46):
where I need to be challenged.
And I'm sure when you're workingwith couples, right, you've got
two different people who, um,have their own comfort zones and
who might hopefully nudge theirpartner to get out of their
comfort zone.
You know, it's interesting.
Matt and I have beeninterviewing some therapists.
We've been together for 10years, married for eight as of
this recording and um, and we'relike, yeah, we need a tuneup.
(10:11):
You know, we started ourrelationship seeing a therapist
because we were doing awesomeand we had the idea like, we
people should go to therapy,like when they're doing great
'cause it's when they'rechallenged that um, it's a
little bit harder to learnskills, so it's been
interesting.
We're like, yeah, it's time forour tuneup.
And taking a look and beingreally honest, like, oh, I feel
(10:33):
really uncomfortable here.
This is where like, I know Ineed to be pushed a little bit.
Um, where are your clients andpatients?
Where's their resistance?
You know, where, where do youfind people most resistant to
taking the next leap?
Diane (10:50):
Oh, it's all, it's a great question, and honestly the
answer is all over the board.
You know, it's, it's Everywhere.
It's like, you know, like whatyou're saying, Dr.
Willow around like Chinesemedicine, like I look at it as
like following the qi, right?
That's what we say in Chinesemedicine is like you just, you
pay attention to the qi and, andso it's the energy and I think.
You know, to your point Leah,around like safety and
(11:12):
resistance, I think one of thebiggest things for people is
understanding that hey, like,like beginning to differentiate,
Hey, this is resistance becausemaybe I'm not ready to go here,
versus like, this is resistancebecause this is hard.
And to, you know, to determinethat next step.
And I do think it's helpful todo this work as a couple because
(11:34):
like you said, couples come intothis at different spots and
different places and oftentimeshave different, you know,
strengths versus, you know,challenge and growth areas.
So we can kind of support eachother and help each other.
And I think one of the biggestthings in like doing any of the
work is starting in many ways,if something is challenging,
then coming back to the body andyou know, doing Tantric
(11:56):
practices, doing breath work,doing other embodiment
practices, and the more we canbe in our body and actually
approach this from thatstandpoint, then if something is
challenging, then the way Iencourage people to do that is
like, move to this next step andsee if you can like, stay in
your body and stay like with anyintensity.
And if you're popping out,meaning if you're becoming
(12:16):
disembodied and all of a suddenyou're kind of like checking
out, you're getting spacey,you're not able to stay present
in the moment.
That might be a sign that, oh,this is like push the pa uh,
past your safety threshold.
And maybe we need like adifferent way in.
Maybe we need to talk about thisdifferent, you know, maybe you
need to start at a differentpoint.
So that embodiment and thatability to practice that, which
(12:39):
I think is something that is acontinued practice for all of us
is a huge signal for theindividual to decide, hey, yeah,
this is, this is differentiatingfrom, I am safe to do this even
though it's hard versus likemaybe there is a level of like
smart wisdom in my body sayingmaybe I'm not ready to go here
(13:00):
yet.
Willow (13:01):
That's a really important distinction.
It makes me, it makes my Chinesemedicine brain go to the, the
small intestine like the, thegreat discerner, you know, and
it's, it's this place inside ofus of, you know, the old adages
of like, listen to your gut.
What's your gut telling you?
You know, and it's sort of likethe, it's the enteric brain of
the body, like the originalbrain of the body where we kind
(13:23):
of, you know, develop from, and,and so you know, listening to
that first instinct, that firstgut reaction of like, I ha, ooh,
I have resistance because I'mafraid of what's on the other
side, and I don't know how tosurrender through that
resistance.
I need help with that.
Versus I have resistance andit's so deep, I can feel it in
(13:47):
my bones, and it just, it meansI'm not, I'm not there.
I'm not ready for that
Leah (13:51):
not resourced enough to process maybe this piece, like,
you know, I need to be groundedmore.
I need to be better resourced.
I need to have certain types ofsupport in order to feel safe,
even though I'm doing somethingscary or hard.
Willow (14:05):
Yeah.
Diane (14:06):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I love that.
the Chinese medicine for that aswell.
It's, uh, you know, the, thephysical of that is like sorting
the good from the not needed inour food.
Right?
And it's like that sameenergetics.
It's like information comes inand, you know, the small
intestine energy in a healthysmall intestine qi is going to
(14:26):
do to be able to do thatemotionally, mentally, with
information to say, oh, this isuseful to me, versus like, this
actually doesn't resonate withme, which we need to apply I
think every day.
Willow (14:37):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (14:38):
that.
I love that phrase is, um, beingable to sort out the good versus
the not needed.
Willow (14:44):
Yeah.
Separating the pure from theimpure.
Yeah.
Leah (14:47):
you know, way of saying something and it really shines a
light.
Like I can't help but reflect onmy own life.
Like, you know, I'm.
Craving different things andlike sort of the junk that I
usually indulge in.
I'm noticing I don't even wantthat.
That's like, it's not needed atthis time.
Something else, something goodis different that is calling for
(15:09):
my attention and I'm so happythat it's linking to my desire.
Um,
Diane (15:14):
Yeah.
Willow (15:16):
Diane, how did you get how I wanna hear the, let's,
let's roll back.
Let's zoom out.
Let's talk about your Genesisstory and like how you got into
sexology, how you got intohealing, how you got into
naturopath, Chinese medicine,all the things.
Diane (15:31):
I grew up real Catholic as super religious and so, you
know, sex before marriage,masturbation, any of that was
very wrong.
My genitals were just downthere, you know, kind of
conversation.
And when my, when I went tocollege, I had a really good
friend who became my roommates.
I started having this unknownvulvar pain, and I say unknown
(15:55):
because I, you know, went todocs and nobody was.
Everybody was like, well,there's no infection, there's no
disease, there's no problem.
But this pain was keeping me upat night.
It would get really bad atnight.
And so my friend, my roommate atthe time, after you know me,
confiding in her, you know aboutthis continually and my
frustration, she handed me abook, and the book was Betty
(16:18):
Dotson's, sex For One.
And you know, for anybodylistening that has read this
book, you may remember that inthat book, Betty talks about not
only the power of masturbation,but she talks about.
Her experience of pain andother, you know, other symptoms
going away.
And so, you know, reading thisand kind of struggling, I was
(16:39):
like, all right, I'm gonna bebrave.
I'm gonna try self-pleasure.
And that was my first experiencewith masturbation.
And lo and behold, the pain wentaway.
Leah (16:49):
Wow.
Diane (16:50):
I an orgasm.
It was just like self flavor.
I was just like, okay, this isamazing.
And then next day pain was back.
Try it again.
Pain went away again.
So I did this for a period ofseveral days.
I don't remember the specificnumber, but eventually the pain
just went away.
Totally.
And you know these moments inlife where it's like.
All beliefs leading to a point.
(17:11):
And then there was somethingthat like challenges, a belief
and it like completely crumbles.
It was like, you know, one ofthose kind of moments where I
was like, okay, so there's this,this energy, we call it spirit,
god, universe, what everybody,whatever anybody calls it, and.
This energy that's supposed tobe like, like making me like,
you know, super powerful and youknow, perfect in their eyes and
(17:34):
all these things, you know,perfectly imperfect and all of
that stuff.
How could I have this thing thatis a way to heal myself that is.
Bad for me.
So that it was just soimpactful.
So that's when I started readingbooks and, you know, getting my
hands on whatever, you know, Icould, and talking to who,
whatever, who had whatever, letme, which back in those days was
(17:55):
like, everything was so, youknow, this was the late
nineties, early two thousands.
So things were really taboo backthen, even more so than now.
But that was, that was theoriginal genesis story.
Leah (18:07):
I'm wondering if people listening who are experiencing
vulva pain, can you talk aboutwhat that sensation was like?
Was it just like in the labiallips?
Could you feel it in the pelvicfloor?
What was that pain?
What can you describe thesensation?
Diane (18:21):
Yeah, it was not just the lips.
It was, it was like deepinternal, like I, I think, you
know now with more of ananatomical knowledge, I think it
was all the way even into mybladder area, right?
So it was very deep, it was veryinternal and it wasn't like
this, like the sensation's alittle hard to describe because
it wasn't like this like, likesharp, like a pinched nerve,
(18:43):
anything like that.
It was almost like this, I guessgripping would be the right
word.
It was like almost this likegripping sensation that was,
that was just, there.
And it wasn't on a scale of howbad it was, by no means like a
10 out of 10 with it being likesevere like that.
But it was just like thatcontinued like, like the other
way I would describe it is I wasconstantly aware of my vulva and
(19:05):
vagina, almost like when youstub a toe and the pain starts
going away, but your brain'sstill thinking about the toe.
Willow (19:11):
Mm-hmm.
Diane (19:12):
Like that's another way I would describe it, where my
brain was just like, there's myvagina, there's my vulva.
Like my brain was justconstantly aware of like.
Something's wrong here.
Willow (19:21):
Hmm.
How long was it?
How long was it going on?
Diane (19:24):
Uh, it's hard to say because this was so long ago.
Six months maybe.
Something like that,
Willow (19:31):
So it just kind of came on all of a sudden.
Yeah.
Diane (19:34):
No known, no known reason.
Never figured it out.
Willow (19:37):
Very
Leah (19:38):
So it was like a, a tight gripping ache versus a sharp
shooting, burning or
Willow (19:44):
Now, did you ever think about later on as you were
getting into the Meridiansystem, did you ever think about
like, oh yeah, well the liverruns through the genitals.
I was really stressed at thattime.
I was, hadn't done a livercleanse, wasn't eating well,
anything along those lines.
Diane (19:58):
I mean it was, you know, that was definitely during my,
uh, rockstar party day.
So all of that was
Willow (20:03):
liver was activated.
Diane (20:05):
liver was activated.
Um, certainly I think bladder,kidney meridians were probably
probably involved as well.
You know, the.
Willow (20:13):
Some fear maybe.
Diane (20:14):
Fear, the ability to, you know, sink deep.
And even when we think aboutlike, you know, the kidney
energy is, you know, it's likethat, that deep in it's like
that ability to really sink indeeply, Um, that super watery,
intuitive type of energy.
And I like, like symptom wise,it coming out at night, for
(20:34):
example.
You know, that could have beenan impactful part of it as well.
Leah (20:39):
interesting.
So that orgasm really helped,um.
Uh, move that stagnant Chi, doyou think?
Diane (20:49):
Well, even just the sensation.
'cause I don't, I don't believe,I know that first night I did
orgasm and I don't have any,remember like memory of actually
orgasming any of that time.
You know, I didn't really knowhow to orgasm at, at all back
then.
Um, I'd never experiencedorgasm, so I don't even think
that I had an orgasm any of thetimes I was doing it, if I
remember correctly.
(21:10):
I think it was just bringingmore circulation and more
awareness.
I was breathing, I rememberbreathing a lot and, and
whatnot.
And just feeling in, you know,that area.
Maybe there was some level of,um, release with the tissue, you
know, tightening and thenreleasing.
So, you know, mechanistically,that's kind of how I've thought
(21:30):
about it.
Um, but from a standpoint oflike orgasm, I don't even
remember orgasming them, whichis just shows like the power of
this.
Like we know how powerful orgasmis and, but also is just even
like the touch along the way.
Willow (21:44):
Right,
Leah (21:44):
right.
It's, I think that, I'm glad youmentioned that because that can
be really under, um,underestimated just the power of
bringing our conscious touch,our awareness and our breath to
this private part of our bodythat is oftentimes shrouded in
fear, guilt, and shame.
And that can just be creating aholding pattern all by itself is
(22:06):
just our cultural conditioningaround how we feel about our
genitals.
Diane (22:11):
When I decided that I was going to, you know, really turn
this into a business and really,you know, put a lot more energy
into getting this work and thisinformation out to the world,
which was.
Um, at the end of my marriageand into my next partnership, so
when my marriage ended, liketowards the end of that, we were
(22:33):
polyamorous.
So we had opened up ourrelationship and we both had
different reasons to do so.
For me, my main objective withthat was I was not feeling like
the relationship was working forme and that we were in a place
that I thought was fixable.
And so I was just trying tofigure out like.
Is there an alternative solutionthat I can be still in this and
(22:55):
still get some of the otherthings like filled up in my life
that I felt like were essentialto me, that were just not
happening in my partnership?
Leah (23:03):
Oh.
Diane (23:03):
And it ended up not because of, of polyamory, um,
that actually was, I would say,very successful from a
standpoint of how we werecommunicating on that.
But it ended up for, for severalreasons, turning, you know, kind
of, kind of messy and prettyhard towards the end.
And my partner, who I was with,who I'm still with now in a
(23:25):
monogamous relationship, he wasjust amazing at any of the
stress.
And I had a lot of career stressgoing on.
We were trying to set, we owneda business together.
We were working on separatingthat, which was just messy.
And my partner was just givingme profound orgasms and I would
be so stressed and not beingable to sleep and not being able
(23:45):
to sleep and not being able tosleep.
And he was basically, I would,you know, say healing me with
touch with pleasure, withorgasms in part too.
His approach to me with all ofthis, the way that he was able
to create so much safety for meand I was feeling very unsafe in
my life.
(24:06):
And the mental, like the mentaland physical ways that he like,
like physically meaning hispresence, that he was able to
show up and create safety, alsocontinued to put effort,
continued to put energy into thedepth that I was able to go into
(24:26):
orgasms, the length of orgasmsthat I was able to maintain.
You know, those kind of things.
And so it really is like a typeA sympathetic, like, you know, I
have two doctorate degrees, Ihave a bazillion certifications.
Like I am not a sit home and donothing kind of woman, and I
(24:46):
don't tend to like move intothat parasympathetic world very
easily.
I tend to like thrive on likeproductivity and overwhelm.
So to.
Leah (24:57):
Show of hands if you can relate?
Diane (25:02):
So to like have this experience, to have somebody in
the state, which was one of themore intense, stressful periods
of my life and, and havesomebody really show me the
depths of what pleasure can dofor bringing down that
overwhelm, for resetting mynervous system, for preparing me
(25:24):
for whatever challenges camethat next day to be resourced.
It took everything that I hadalready been studying and it
really showed me like the levelof healing on a completely
different level.
And that's when I was like,alright, I better, I better
start sharing this with theworld because like you said,
like, like, who out there is notthis current society?
(25:46):
You know, so many of us, most ofus are, are living in this hyper
hypers sympathetic fight orflight overwhelm a lot.
Willow (25:54):
Healed by orgasms.
Hooray.
Leah (25:57):
Yes.
And those profound experienceswith a partner who's so present
and who's so safe and who haprobably has some skills, you
know, uh, that all come to playtogether.
Who's really invested in youbeing all that you can be and
gets to, um, bask in yourpleasure as like, probably one
(26:17):
of the greatest rewards.
Um, there's a certain evolvedpartner who can provide that and
anchor that for someone else'snervous system.
And I'm curious to hear from youwhat made that possible for him
to show up for you in that way?
Diane (26:39):
it's such a good question.
Yeah, I think it's, it's acombination of a lot of things.
Like I have studied a lot ofAlison Armstrong's work and her
work on understanding men andunderstanding women, and this
relationship was the first timeI really felt like I was
applying it fully.
(26:59):
And so there was a level ofgoing into it and instead of
seeing as all, you know, Allisonwould say, where it's like so
many, it's so easy as womenbecause we don't understand men,
to look at men as in comparingthem to like the perfect wor
woman.
Right, and instead of actuallyrealizing like, oh, this is
(27:19):
actually how their brains, youknow, function differently, it's
like, you know, her work I feellike blows other work on the
feminine masculine just outtathe world from understanding
the, the thinking process.
Willow (27:30):
Mm-hmm.
Diane (27:31):
So there was definitely something there.
Leah (27:33):
specific way that their systems can receive.
Uh, her
Diane (27:36):
Yeah, helping them to be successful, you know, it's like
men are, it's like made me fallin love, like not only with him,
but with the masculine ingeneral, because I understand
men in such a different way andunderstand that like, oh, like
men are amazing at like reallywanting to, like a, a really
embodied man is amazing atreally wanting to provide so
many things for his partner,
Willow (27:57):
Yeah.
Another, another, um, anotherperson who Allison is always
kind of touting is, uh, LouannBrizendine She's the, she wrote
the Male Brain and the FemaleBrain.
I'm sure you've read thosebooks,
Diane (28:08):
I have actually not read
Willow (28:09):
Oh, you gotta read
Diane (28:10):
you're giving good homework.
Willow (28:12):
Yeah.
You are gonna, they're gonna becandy to you because it's just,
it goes through, she's a brainneuroscientist and so she, um,
you know, just really goesthrough the how, how the
amygdala works.
How the, you know, how thecorpus callosum works in the
male and female brains, how thedifferent chemicals run through
the body.
(28:32):
And um, I have given thosebooks, Allison's work and those
two books to so many people, andeven even moms of teenage boys,
and they're like, oh, I get itnow.
You know?
And it's like, we really aresuch, like the, the male brain,
the female brain.
We really are such different,different creatures and we see
things so differently, so tounderstand.
(28:53):
And Allison has given such ahuge gift to the world.
We're such big fans as well ofher work.
Leah (28:57):
Yeah.
Diane (28:58):
Yeah, she's amazing.
Leah (28:59):
We've, we'll list Alison's episode, uh, on sex reimagined
here in the show notes.
For those of you who aren'tfamiliar with her work, you'll
really delight in that, uh,interview.
Um, yeah.
Okay.
So Allison's work was a biginfluence.
Was there anything else that hebrought to the table that you
think, um, uh, men or women whoare listening to this would gain
(29:21):
value?
By maybe adapting some of thethings he brought to the table
or learning some of the thingsyou know, that he had skills
with coming into therelationship.
Diane (29:30):
Here was a huge and unique thing about, uh, my
partner is, and it wasn't justwas, is, is I should say.
Um, he is deaf.
So he actually lost his hearingwhen he was an infant of
meningitis.
And what that means in ourrelationship, he's an amazing
lip reader, right?
So he could be here talking toany of us and you know, and can
(29:52):
read lips extremely well.
But what that means is that inorder for him to understand me,
I can't talk a million miles anhour.
I can't talk like this becausehe can't read my lips that way.
And this whole thing that likewe're taught as humans around
like, slow down, think aboutwhat you're gonna say.
All these kind of things.
(30:14):
It forced me to develop thatskill because if I would say
something too fast, he'd belike.
I can't hear you, honey.
And then I'd have to go back andsometimes I'd even get a second
shot at saying things because Isaid it fast and maybe not well,
and it was like, oh, okay, nowhere's my opportunity to go back
and practice.
(30:35):
So I had a natural cue built into my relationship.
Right.
Willow (30:40):
What a cool way to bring the sympathetic dominant down
into the parasympathetic.
That's great.
Diane (30:47):
And so, you know, from a standpoint of this is not what
most couples are going to be in,but even just thinking about,
okay, is there any sort of cuethat if they're gonna have a
challenging conversation, like,you know, do you wanna consider
having a special sound thatlike, oh, we're gonna have a
challenging conversation.
Maybe throw some Tibetan bell,you know, you know Tibetan music
(31:09):
on where there's just like abell every once in a while and
every time you hear the bell,you know, that's a trigger for
you to remember slow myself downbecause it just, it was
unbelievable.
And now, you know, we're fourand a half years in, so I'm very
acclimated to this.
But in the beginning it was so,so amazing how many times I
(31:30):
would find myself jumping andleaping without thinking,
without choosing my words reallythoughtfully, and and it forced
me to, to do that.
Willow (31:40):
Are you an Aries by chance?
Diane (31:42):
I'm not, I'm actually a cancer.
Willow (31:44):
Oh, you're, you got the, the slow watery in you actually.
Well, it must have been such arelief to your nervous system to
start to be like to actuallyembody and be in practice of
slowing down.
And I imagine too that itchanged the way that you
delivered your message andtaught to your students and your
clients and
Diane (32:04):
Hundred percent.
Yeah, I'm, I spend a lot moretime now just like internally,
how is my cadence?
Like, you know, am I talkingfaster than people keep up with
me because.
Like I said, I'm Type A and youget me going my natural tendency
is like, you know, running on atrain that's like completely
lost.
Its breaks just as fast as canbe.
Willow (32:27):
Hmm.
So tell us about, uh, your worklike, you know, if you're
pulling from all these amazingdifferent modalities, what,
what's one of your favoritethings that you get to help
people with and teach them andguide them through?
Diane (32:41):
You know, I love talking about the brain and the high
that we get in new relationshipenergy and dopamine, and what
dopamine is doing to drive thatchemical change in the beginning
of the relationship.
Because I think from astandpoint of getting out of our
sexual scripts and bringing morenovelty in.
(33:04):
And you know, back to how weintroduce this particular
conversation around, okay, wellhow do we not get in the G
chord?
Right?
How do we continue to add newthings?
Well, some of that isunderstanding.
What drives passion, you know,and a lot of the beginning part
of that new relationship energyis because of not only the
(33:25):
novelty, but it's like the spacebecause how dopamine works and
dopamines are reward as well asour motivation, brain chemical.
And so in that new relationship,when we don't know if they're
gonna call.
We don't know if they're gonnatext and we're like thinking
about it and there's kind of amotivation.
There's a little dopaminesaying, I hope they call.
I hope they call.
I hope they call.
(33:45):
And then they call and then Pinggets a ton more dopamine.
And then it's like, well, youget that anticipatory for that
date.
And the same thing happens for,are they gonna text after the
date and the first kiss?
And.
All the things.
And so one of the things thathappens when we combine and we
move in together or combine ourlives in any way, we are taking
(34:05):
away kind of that space and thatanticipation, right?
And that's where like adding thenovelty back in it, it's so
helpful.
But it's not just about that newthing.
It's not just about the C chordand the D chord and those new
chords.
It's about the way we introducethose chords because the more we
can say, okay, this is whereplanning can be sexy.
(34:26):
Because the more we can dothings around like, okay, well
on, you know, Friday night we'regonna try tying me up for the
first time, or you know, any newthing.
That's interesting.
Then if we talk about that,doing that on a Monday, then
what that's doing is it'sbringing back that dopamine.
So then we start thinking aboutit, and maybe we start flirt
texting again and it brings thatdopamine.
(34:47):
And so what we're doing is we'recreating that space between now
and this exciting thing andallowing the brain to think
about it and get used to it andget like excited about it.
And then when it happens, we getthat big rush of dopamine and by
it's applying those sameprinciples from a new
relationship energy to along-term scenario.
(35:07):
We're able to create in manyways, a lot of that chemical
drive that we had early on.
Willow (35:14):
Mm.
I love that.
So powerful.
And so with your couples who arecoming to you, they've been
together a long time.
They're like, yeah, we just.
Go down the same g chord all thetime.
What should we do?
You know, the, are you givingthem those kind of things.
Why don't you guys try tryingeach other up on Friday night?
Like, are you giving them actuallike techniques like Jabari and
and Tantra techniques and thingslike that
Diane (35:34):
Very, very much so.
Very much so.
I guess starting place forpeople is my yes, no, maybe
checklist, and that's atwww.MySexDoc.com for anybody
that wants that.
But even with that, like one ofthe important things I, and, and
the, let me take a step back Inthe Yes no, maybe checklist,
what it is is.
You take this and you say, oh,these are the things that we're
(35:54):
both interested in.
These are the maybes.
Are there anything that a maybecould be shifted to turn a maybe
into a yes, or how would a maybebecome a no?
But one of the important thingsI think about having support,
you know, from, you know, fromyou guys, from people like
myself through any of this isjust like anything, if we are
having the conversations around,well, you are a yes and I'm a,
(36:18):
maybe we could have to be socareful about how we have these
conversations because the egogets so involved.
So it's very, very.
Um, importance before we trythese conversations or we do
something like a yes no, maybechecklist that we have a, a
conversation around.
If you think something I bringup that I'm interested in is
(36:43):
maybe a little weird or it'ssurprising to you or anything
like that, we can actually pre.
Conversate have pre-framed thisand say, this is how I want you
to respond to me if you'resurprised by what I say.
And the reason we do that isbecause it can be a very, if, if
(37:04):
we don't have theseconversations, well, you know,
it can be such a trigger forpeople to be like, oh my gosh.
Like I am like turned off bythat.
And my partner likes that.
And like, it can be so easy forsomebody to spout something out
of their mouth that creates atrauma for the other person and
they were so vulnerable and nowthey shut down.
So before we even do that, wegotta pre-frame, this is how
(37:26):
we're gonna respond in thosescenarios.
Willow (37:29):
Gold right there.
Leah (37:30):
What's a good example?
Could you actually, um, give usan example of a, of a frame that
maybe some languaging that, um,a couple or maybe even people
who are dating for the firsttime as they kind of break into
communication styles.
Diane (37:46):
Yeah, so I'll give you an example.
And then the other thing in, youknow, considering this as a
listener is always make this, ofcourse, true and authentic for
you.
So the example I give may, mayor may not resonate with you,
but just as a, a starting point.
So a good thing to ask forsomebody is something like
(38:07):
curiosity.
So curiosity can be a, a usefulway of having these kind of
responses.
So for example, you know, let'ssay I'm going to ask my partner.
To tie me up and my partner hasnever heard this before and I'm
worried about how he's going torespond.
So I might pre-frame and say,Hey, I, you know, let's, let's
(38:28):
do our yes no, maybe checklist.
I wanna tell you a little bitabout, about some of these
things that came up as yeses forme.
There's a couple things that Ifeel a little nervous to tell
you about.
I've just, you know, I've nevertold anybody about this and it
just feels like really scary tome.
So, even if you don't like it,I'm wondering if you can, you
(38:49):
know, if you're not likingsomething, I'm wondering if you
can say, wow, what a beautifulexpression.
I am.
Like, so curious about, youknow, your interest in exploring
this and, and do you have anysense of like, you know, what
this would do for you or whyyou're interested in it?
And maybe I'm not.
(39:09):
I'm not really sure, or thismight be a, a hard no for me.
I'm not sure, but, but this issuch a beautiful expression of
sexuality and even if I can't dothis, I'm really interested in
knowing why this is alive foryou.
Something like that.
Willow (39:24):
That would be a much better response than, uh, I'm a
no.
Leah (39:29):
Yeah.
Or that's weird, or
Willow (39:30):
Yeah.
Shut it down.
Cause causing unnecessary shame.
We don't want that.
Leah (39:35):
right.
Yeah.
I think, uh, as we like toalways say, um, curiosity,
suffocates judgment, and what weall really want is to be
understood and gotten.
And so even though you may wanta yuck.
My yum.
Diane (39:49):
Yeah.
That's great.
Well said.
Leah (39:51):
Resist that expression of yuck and allow yourself to get
really curious.
While I'm really invested and Ireally care about this person,
and I wanna know more, I wannaknow, I wanna understand you
even more, and I can hold spacefor your desire without feeling
pressured to fulfill yourdesire.
Just the liberation of, ofseeking what do I desire deep
(40:15):
within ourselves, and thentaking the next step and having
courage to then explore what itfeels like to say what those
desires are out loud is such astep of bravery.
And to be able to hear yourselfhave that experience out loud
for you to be with someone whosays, your desires are safe with
(40:36):
me.
Even if they're not my desires,I care enough about you in this
moment right now, to know youmore and to, and to get what
this is about for you.
Diane (40:48):
Yeah, it's so, there's so much capacity, I think for
depth, you know, that can happenfrom those questions when we
don't shut it down.
Because, you know, even likeasking somebody like, you know,
what is interesting about this?
You know, for you, I'm reallycurious.
Right?
And maybe they don't know, like,we don't know the reason for,
there might not be a reason forall of our fantasy's.
Sometimes it's just like, wellthat sounds sexy and hot.
(41:10):
So there there might not beanything to be said, but it
there might be.
Right?
And sometimes we ask thequestion around, you know, what
is it?
And, and you know, ChAARI is sointeresting, right?
Like the idea of being tied upand many, many people have an
experience with it, of whenyou're actually restrained like
that, of actually feeling safeand held right.
(41:32):
And so
Leah (41:33):
Not trapped, actually held.
It's very fascinating how uponlooking at something for the
first time, you might haveassociations when, when you
actually look into it evendeeper.
Um, for many people it could bean opposite association.
And then to find out, well, whendid you first have that desire
and what does that remind youof?
(41:54):
And can open up just so muchcloseness.
Diane (41:57):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And just having, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Willow (42:02):
And that's why people do it generally, is to, to, to drop
themselves into that subspace.
I, I, I'm, I'm guessing, I'mimagining for you, Diane, that
going into Subspace is likereally a powerful thing for you
since you do run at a yangdominant sort of drive and, and
natural nervous system.
(42:22):
And, um, you know, I've beendoing cranial sacral for a
couple decades now and, um, youknow, taking people into that
deep, deep relaxation.
Well, whereas a lot of timesthey kind of like go asleep or
they go into this, you know,liminal space.
So, and then, and then thepractitioner is kind of like
(42:43):
walking their nervous systemdeeper and deeper into this
subspace.
But what I have found myselffrom, from playing with sub/dom
roles and containment and goingin, is like you actually get to
walk yourself into thatsubspace.
And there's something reallyunique and powerful about that
(43:03):
to, to allow somebody to tie youup to, to contain you, to hold
you to surrender into, um, the,the container of someone else.
Really cool.
Diane (43:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's a reallygood example of how, one of the
things I say a lot is pleasureis not just about desire, but
something we require, and I saythat for several reasons, but
one of them is perfectlyillustrated by, you know what
you're bringing up, which is howmuch healing can actually happen
(43:37):
from everything from astandpoint of physical intimacy,
you know, expression, not even,of course, just, you know, way
beyond just, uh, penetration.
Right.
Exactly.
Leah (43:47):
I, I think that's a really interesting and defining um,
distinction that is worthexploring a little bit.
And I also have, I also haveanother other question I don't
wanna miss asking you.
Um, but to make this point firstis that.
We can learn new tricks,techniques, and love making
(44:08):
positions, right?
To activate our partner and toopen our partner to more
pleasure.
But when you bring up thehealing component, uh, it, what
it does to me is it deepenssomething.
So that how we play with eachother sexually has more meaning.
Not just friction and frictionis awesome, and learning about
all the science and what happensto the brain and how we build
(44:30):
arousal and attraction and allthat stuff.
We also, have so much incredibleinformation at our fingertips
that can explain neurologicallyand physiologically what's
happening through the science ofour attraction, our arousal, and
seeking more pleasure and higherpleasure.
But that's separate from sort ofthe healing aspects and the
(44:52):
spiritual or the sacred aspectsmake some of that devoid of
meaning.
And we are meaning makingmachines as humans.
And so I think we get to takepartnership and intimacy to a
much deeper level when we canapply some meaning to it.
And so you're, yes, no, maybechecklists is where it also
provides an opportunity for usto discover deep inside of
(45:14):
ourselves what meaning we makefrom these, you know,
attractions, desires,curiosities, yearning, longing,
so on and so forth, or big fatno's.
Willow (45:27):
What's on the checklist?
I wanna know what's on thatchecklist?
Leah (45:30):
Yeah, I wanna, what's on the checklist and I wanna know.
How do you help someone who'sreally stuck in their yuck, who
hears something that theirpartner says that is like really
big for them and they just havean aversion or a disgust and
they get really stuck in going,
Willow (45:50):
Like they can't even find their way to curiosity
around
Diane (45:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's I the answer to thatthere's so many different places
we can go, of course, like anyof these questions, but one of
my favorite ways to help peoplewith that is really linked in my
mind to you know, to, withoutgetting too sy, but to what is
happening to the brain withintimacy from a standpoint of
(46:14):
like meditation in an alteredstate.
Because when we are reallyembodied, right, when we are
practicing mindfulnessthroughout our intimacy, and the
mind wanders for a second, wecatch it and we bring it, bring
it right back to our body andthe sensations, and we're doing
that as we get into these morealtered states.
And you know, the more liminalspace that gets created, like
(46:35):
you had mentioned Dr.
Willow.
When we, when all of thishappens, just like with
hypnosis, our brain is moresuggestible.
So one of my favorite self, youknow, healing practices that I
love to do with my partner is tobring up anything that is, you
know, on my mind around like abelief that I'm like, this is
(46:56):
not serving me.
I need to reprogram the heck outof this.
Maybe there's a microtrauma Ihave from something he said, or
something somebody else said,and it's like in my
consciousness.
Whatever it is.
And I think about, and I talkopenly with him around like,
wow, this is what I, this iswhat I wanna program my nervous
system with.
This is the belief.
(47:16):
And so then at at moments withintimacy as like he can tell
that energy is heightened, youknow, he will whisper, you know,
in this very soothing veryparasympathetic dominant voice
while I'm in my body, while I'mconnected to my, you know, my
parasympathetic nervous system,he will be whispering these
mantras in my ear and likehelping me reprogram my brain.
(47:40):
So obviously if, you know, if apartner is involved in a
microtrauma like this, if theysaid something that did not feel
good and we're creating a storyand a belief and a meaning,
which we do as humans, ourpartner has to show up.
So this activity is, you know,in some ways like an advanced
activity for people.
But if you're at a point whereyour partner is like, you know,
(48:02):
you have that type ofcommunication and your partner's
willing to play here, it's areally fun way of, of actually
reprogramming the nervous systemand the belief and the story
while you guys are beingintimate and making love.
Willow (48:18):
Mm-hmm.
Diane (48:19):
Yeah.
Willow (48:20):
Amazing.
Diane (48:22):
And then on my yes, no maybe checklist.
There's, it's, it's aninteresting checklist because
there's a lot of things on therethat are not about sex.
So it's, it's intimacy and soit's, you know, it's various
things for, would you considerthis for a date night?
And then there's differentplaces, like the way I look at
novelty oftentimes is people,places, things and things that
(48:44):
fall into those threecategories.
So things could be anything suchas ropes or any sort of anything
in the BDSM world.
It could be vibrators.
It could be handcuffs, you know,it could be anything that's a
thing.
Um, places is obvious.
You know, I'd like to helppeople remember that places can
be as simple as like in yourcloset instead of in your bed,
(49:05):
right?
It can make these super smallchanges.
And, um, and then people, so I,I do work with monogamous
couples most primarily.
So the way I help people inmonogamy get into the role of
using people from a noveltystandpoint is through role
playing is one way.
Mm-hmm.
Um, through even doing thingslike wigs or costume play can be
(49:30):
another thing, So you're takinganother persona.
And I really love bringing inlike.
Archetypes from sensual dance orfrom S Factor from Sheila
Kelly's work and And thearchetypes I think are so
wonderful.
They're so phenomenal to playwith because they're almost like
these, you know, these differentpersonas and, and you know,
(49:51):
parts of us.
So for example, one archetype inS factor lineage is the
dangerous challenger.
And the dangerous challenger iskind of what she sounds like,
right?
She's like, she's kind of likeferocious.
She's like, you know, she's aboss.
She's a little dangerous.
She's edgy
Willow (50:08):
In my mind, she has a whip in her hand.
Like a
Diane (50:11):
might
Willow (50:11):
bowl whip.
Yeah.
She's wearing leather.
Leah (50:13):
In my mind, she's topping from the bottom.
Willow (50:16):
Yeah.
Leah (50:19):
Like a little brat.
Diane (50:21):
But that's exactly right.
So it's like the dangerouschallenger energy's gonna be
different in all of us.
And so it's a really fun thingto kind of get to know these
archetypes.
Like, you know, another one's aninnocent teaser.
And I think of that, like for methat's like the, you know,
almost like the high schoolcheerleader, right?
Like that type of vibe.
And, you know, almost kind ofgetting yourself in that state
(50:42):
around.
We all have these archetypes inus, some of them more dominant
than other, like any, you know,like just about any archetypical
model out there.
And so when we can actuallylearn about these and be like,
okay, well how am I gonna sinkinto the energy of the innocent
teaser.
And how would the innocentteaser show up tonight?
And what is, how would she moveand how would she make love and
(51:03):
how would she express?
And you know, it's interesting.
Sometimes I play with thiswithout even like telling my
partner.
And he'll be like, what waswhat?
What were you doing?
What was that?
So he can
Willow (51:14):
I like that.
Diane (51:15):
right?
Willow (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, What I love.
Leah (51:18):
they've
Willow (51:18):
know, I love that you're bringing the archetypes to, to
our conversation right nowbecause it's like we get to put
on a, a, a mask.
Like we get to put on adifferent person persona, a
different part of ourselves thatwe don't usually give ourself.
Oh, I'm not that, I'm not aninnocent teaser, I'm not a
challenger.
You know, like, that's not me,but let me put that on, play
(51:40):
that part and see what part ofme comes alive when I play that
role.
I just did the, um, the lightdark Institute's work with, with
their dark type stuff andsimilar kind of, you know,
archetypes like the, you know,the violent de, the violent
destroyer, you know, and thethe, um, the challenger and,
and, and the needy retch.
(52:01):
Oh my God, I need your love sobad.
I don't know, i'm never gonna beable to live without it, you
know?
It's just like, it feels good tojust allow yourself to go into
these different places insidethat we all carry, because
otherwise they're just lurkingin the shadows.
They're staying in theunconscious, and then somehow
they creep into our, you know,relationships with each other
(52:24):
and cause a little bit ofdiscord.
Diane (52:28):
Yeah, I think Carl Jung really got it right with the
shadow on that.
Willow (52:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Leah (52:33):
Well this has been so much fun and your work is so
fascinating.
We feel so touched and honoredto have you on the show.
Is there anything else you wannaleave our audience with any
other gem or treasure that maybethey could noodle over or even
practice?
Diane (52:50):
Yeah, well two things.
One, I do encourage everybody togo take my libido quiz because
that's gonna help you identifysome of those root causes behind
low libido.
So it's free quizwww.LibidoQuiz.com.
So I do encourage you to dothat.
And secondly, get Comfortablewith the fact that sometimes it
is awkward.
(53:10):
I think, you know, the, theavoiding awkward sex and
avoiding those awkward moments,and especially if somebody has
not been trying something for awhile, or maybe you haven't been
having sex or intimacy for awhile, you know, maybe you're
just, you know, in this bestfriend kind of role.
It can feel awkward and like,you know, without having all
(53:31):
that energy of that newrelationship energy, it's almost
like starting sometimes with thefirst kiss, without all of that
energy, and you have to figureout how do your lips fit
together again sometimes, andhow do you respond to their
style, right.
Leah (53:46):
Yeah.
Diane (53:47):
Sometimes still things happen.
Like my partner and I banged ourheads together during sex the
other day and had to take abreak because it really hurt.
You know?
So that was like an awkwardtransition, right?
And so, you know, so I think themore we can just accept that
when we're trying new things orwhen we're starting over that
it's, it's just being awkwarddoesn't have to be a bad thing.
We can make it silly.
(54:08):
We can, you know, we can laughabout it.
And, and just bringing thatacceptance into this is actually
a normal part of trying newthings.
Not everything's gonna work and,and not expecting it to, you
know, look like a, you know,perfect movie porn shot all the
time because that's just notrealistic.
Leah (54:25):
Yeah.
And remember, awkward can becharming and there's a lot of
erotic
Willow (54:29):
It's funny.
Leah (54:30):
and awkward, and it can be lots great fodder for laughter.
And yes, who doesn't wanna beconfident, but it's kind of
unrealistic in every situationand, and sex is the perfect
place for us to yearn forconfidence, but really be
awkward.
So just embrace that on your wayto confidence.
I love that.
Willow (54:50):
Yeah.
Diane (54:50):
exactly.
Leah (54:51):
And where can people find your yes no, maybe checklist.
Diane (54:55):
So that's at www.MySexDoc.com.
So super easy.
Yep.
Willow (54:59):
great.
Leah (54:59):
free also.
Diane (55:00):
free also.
Leah (55:01):
Two free gifts.
One episode.
That is exciting.
We'll make sure that's in theshow notes.
Willow (55:06):
Thank you Diane.
Such a pleasure to have youtoday.
Diane (55:08):
Same.
Thank you ladies.
Leah (55:10):
Okay, stay tuned because the dish is up next and you know
how much we like to dish it out.
Announcer (55:16):
Now our favorite part, the dish.
Leah (55:20):
Well, wasn't that just a yummy taster?
A
Willow (55:24):
So good.
Love Diane.
I love talking to her.
She's, uh, just, you know, she,she plays in the, in the realm
of so many things that I holdnear and dear to my heart.
So hormones and Chinese medicineand BDSM and you know, the
archetypes and fuck.
Kept going and going with
Leah (55:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Willow (55:46):
And like the neuroscience, she's real into
the neuroscience.
I love that.
Leah (55:50):
Yeah.
And, and the archetypes andNelson Armstrong, I mean, so
many realms that line up, you
Willow (55:57):
She's a sister.
Leah (55:58):
Yeah.
A sister from another Mr.
for sure.
Um.
Yeah, I really loved a lot ofthe things you brought to the
table that, um, you know, justembrace awkwardness is so key.
Being able to choose curiositywhen you're learning about your
partner and some of the thingsthey're uncovering about what,
what titillates them.
Willow (56:18):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (56:19):
Coming from a nonjudgmental space, the
yearning to be understood.
All those things are what Ithink deepen our intimacy.
And I think it answers thislonging that so many of us
discover inside of ourselves,which is the question, there's
gotta be something more to sex.
There just has got to besomething more than what I've
experienced so far.
(56:39):
And it's this, the, the meaningthat we make of things and our
ability to expose some of ourinner thoughts and our inner
desires to another person and tohave that be received, um, I
think is what builds that trustand what builds that safety so
that we can actually start to gothere.
Willow (56:58):
Oh yeah.
So, so beautiful.
And I love, you know, one of thethings that she really, that I
wanna highlight, that she talkedabout was how to have these
conversations of like, oh, I, Iwould like to try this.
And setting up your partner forsuccess by saying, Hey, I'm a
little nervous to tell you aboutthis, and before I go into ex
explaining what I am desiringand why I, this is what I wanna
(57:21):
hear back from you.
Here are the actual words that Iwanna hear back.
Let me give them to you straightso that it's easy for you to,
um,
Leah (57:31):
Get a
Willow (57:31):
hold.
Leah (57:32):
me.
Willow (57:33):
exactly.
Leah (57:34):
Yeah,
Willow (57:35):
Yeah.
Co-creating those win-wins is,is so, so my, uh, an amazing
part of what she does.
Leah (57:42):
yeah.
All right.
Well, cool.
Thanks y'all.
Please, uh, like, comment andsubscribe.
Tell us what you think aboutthis episode and what it means
to you and we will catch younext time.
Love, love, love.
Willow (57:53):
Much level.
Announcer (57:56):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.
Willow (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Sex Reimagined
podcast.
I'm Dr.
Willow Brown.
I'm here with the one and onlyLeah Piper.
We are your co-host.
We are so grateful for all yourwonderful likes, shares, and
subscribes.
Now, today we have a littlequestion for you.
If your partner feels more likea roommate than a lover, than
(00:30):
you are not alone, and today'sguest says the real reason
passion fades has nothing to dowith attraction and everything
to do with biology,miscommunication, and a few
sneaky saboteurs no one istalking about.
So we're so excited to welcomeDr.
Diane Mueller aboard certifiedsexologist with dual doctorates
(00:53):
in naturopathic as well asacupuncture and oriental
medicine.
So I'm so excited about thisconversation, and she is the
founder of sex Education Centerand she is my libido do.com and
hosts the Libido Lounge podcast,which we were guests on.
And she really loves to helpmonogamous couples create more
(01:13):
passion, desire, hotter sex, andbetter communication.
So we are thrilled to have youwith us today, Diane.
Welcome.
Diane (01:20):
Thank you.
It's so good to be with youladies again.
And you know, if I can realquickly, just open this up with
a quick story on top of youramazing intro, one of the things
that first started waking me upto this topic we're talking
about today around sex actuallygetting better in long-term
relationships instead of worsewas when I was listening to a
(01:42):
lecture with the co-founder ofNLP Neurolinguistic Programming
Richard Bandler.
And he was telling a story ofwhen he was getting ready to get
married and people were like,well, you better have a lot of
sex now because it's gonna goaway later.
Like the sex is gonna go down,down, down, down, down.
(02:04):
And his response to this that hewas teaching just really
awakened something in me and hisresponse was, okay, so anything
else in life that we do we learna new instrument and we
practice, practice, practice,practice, practice.
We get better.
We learn a new language.
We practice, practice, practice,practice, practice.
We get better.
So.
He's like, so sex is this onething that you practice and get
(02:26):
worse at?
And so it didn't make any senseto him and it didn't make any
sense to me.
And that was a huge launch, thatkind of concept for a lot of the
work I do today.
Willow (02:37):
love that it is such a good story and it's so true.
It's like practicing sexualityis a practice.
It's a practice of getting toknow yourself in newer and more
intriguing ways day by day andgetting to know your partner.
Diane (02:50):
Yeah,
Leah (02:51):
the first thing that comes to mind when I hear you say that
is, yes, but what is theneurological differences between
someone practicing an instrumentversus someone having sex where
we've got lots of differentbrain chemistry being generated
in relationship to sex, and I'mcurious, like, is that different
when you're practicing or arepassionate about something like
(03:11):
learning to practice aninstrument or maybe for me would
be cooking.
Um, anyone, any, any of thedoctors in the room know the
answer to that question.
Diane (03:20):
Well, I, I've been asked this before, so the way I
describe the answer to this islike, think about learning
guitar and learning the G chordand the way you practice guitar
is not practicing the G chord.
Over and over and over and overagain.
You add a C, you add a D, youadd an A minor and you keep
adding new things and that's howyou get better at guitar.
(03:44):
So the difference is that whenwe are often practicing sex,
we're making love thatoftentimes because if left to
our own devices, what we wind updoing is we get into a sexual
script and we just practice theG chord.
Over and over and over again.
And if we did that with guitar,well, we would get really good
at the G chord, but we would notbe a great guitar player.
Leah (04:04):
And we get bored.
Yes.
Which is probably some
Willow (04:09):
would get bored listening to us.
Leah (04:11):
right?
Uh, in long-term relationshipsex.
As you get into that routine andyou get bored.
Great answer by the way.
Really love
Willow (04:17):
that's a good one.
It's a great metaphor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We love the metaphor of, oflearning to play an instrument
is, is so synonymous tosexuality because it, you know,
it does become an orchestra and,and a mu a really well fine
tuned musician who knows how toplay multiple instruments, like
the music moves through them,rather than them playing the
(04:39):
instruments, the instruments areplaying through them.
The same thing in sexuality,especially with Tantric,
spiritually connected sex.
It's like the, the energy of thesexuality starts to move you and
play through you rather than youdoing it.
It starts out as you doing it,but then you get into this
trance state where it takesover.
Diane (05:00):
Yeah.
Leah (05:01):
correlation you made there, Willow.
Um, because it is interestingwhen people are learning sexual
techniques and conscioussexuality and things like Taoist
practices and Tantra practiceswhere you become skillful as a
lover.
It's like that learning processof practicing and learning new
skill sets, and then finding theembodied knowledge to allow that
(05:23):
practice to be so internalizedthat it's no longer a skill or a
technique you're doing, it's away that you express yourself.
And, um, but there is alwayssort of that learning curve of
playing a guitar or learning anew sexual technique.
Let's, let's say G-spot massageor uh, prostate massage, where
you're a little clutsy at first.
You, you don't have the rhythm.
(05:44):
You, you don't know how to findthe beat until you practice
enough where it's like, oh, Iknow how to tap this.
I know how to take someone on aride when it comes to their,
their pleasure and how they'reopening and what they're
feeling, and so on and so forth.
So, I'm curious, Diane, I'm, Iknow that you, um An
acupuncturist and you've gotthis holistic practice.
(06:04):
Where are, where does thisinterfacing with couples start
from?
Or is it more therapeutic innature?
Are you teaching them skills inthe bedroom so that they're
better at sex?
What's your, like, what's thefirst door you're opening for
folks?
Diane (06:19):
It's a great question and it's, it's a challenging one,
right?
'cause a lot of my work isreally combining, like the
medical, the science, the labstuff with all the sexy stuff.
So I find that like, like in theprograms, in my courses.
I do give people access to a lotof things typically at once.
And so we do go through and say,well, are there hormone
(06:41):
imbalances?
Do you have sympatheticdominance, which most humans do?
Or is your, is your overwhelmrunning your life?
Do you have neurological issuesor pelvic floor dysfunctions?
Like those kind of like physicalthings.
Which have to be addressed.
And at the same time, the numberof times people have reregulated
their hormones and they'rehormonally perfect, but their
(07:03):
libido is low, they're still notlike, you know, their desires
down.
It's too many to count.
So we know that those things arehelpful and important to be in
line, but.
The way we bring novelty in theway we actually communicate with
our partner, the way we set timeaside for our pleasure practice.
All of these things actuallymake a big difference with the
(07:24):
arousal and the libido.
So in my work, a lot of what Ido is give people access to all
these areas.
And I often find that the placeto start is the place that
people feel most called to.
So if you tend to be more oflike, wow, you've loved the
science and all that, like, likeeverybody should look at the
medical side of things.
'cause it can be Im, you know,impactful.
(07:45):
But if your brain works in morethat analytical way, you might
be better like, like startingthere just to kind of get some
movement and then adding onthese other areas and other
people that maybe are more likethey, they feel the energy,
right?
And they just wanna, they're somuch more interested in actually
the embodiment side of things.
They might do better startingover in this other area to
(08:07):
practice that.
I find that it's just like thisvery, like beautiful meld of,
of, energy, like flowing indifferent ways and meaning
there's not like one fundamentalthing I've seen with arousal and
and libido where it's like youhave to do this first or it
doesn't work.
Willow (08:25):
Yeah.
I love that you're girl after myown heart here.
Love, love, love.
It's so, it's so all inclusive,you know, it's.
Like, and we just jump in as welearn.
In Chinese medicine, it's likeit's a big circle and you just
jump into the center of it andyou start pac manning your way
out from there, you start takingnibbles here and there, and you
digest what you can, and youassimilate what you can in the
(08:48):
moment, and then when you'reready for the next piece, you
move on to the next piece.
And every human being is sodifferent.
I always think of humans asthese four pillars.
Spiritual, emotional,psychological, and physical.
And so if you're really down inthe dumps with your physicality
and your fucking hormones aredriving you absolutely cuckoo
sauce, then yeah, you're gonnawanna start there.
(09:08):
But if you're like, eh, I have alittle bit of brain fog and I
get some night sweats, but hey,I've got some sexual repressed
trauma that I haven't dealt withand I know that, then yeah,
you're gonna wanna dive intothat psychological, um,
spiritual component first.
Leah (09:24):
I, I think it's interesting too because it makes
sense that people are gonnawanna start where they feel
their strengths.
So if they love sort of thephysiological, neurological
science of things, that's wherethey feel safe and comfortable.
They get to kind of feel thatthey're where they're
comfortable, they're in theircomfort zone first.
And then you can kind of take alook at, okay, now let's see
(09:46):
where I need to be challenged.
And I'm sure when you're workingwith couples, right, you've got
two different people who, um,have their own comfort zones and
who might hopefully nudge theirpartner to get out of their
comfort zone.
You know, it's interesting.
Matt and I have beeninterviewing some therapists.
We've been together for 10years, married for eight as of
this recording and um, and we'relike, yeah, we need a tuneup.
(10:11):
You know, we started ourrelationship seeing a therapist
because we were doing awesomeand we had the idea like, we
people should go to therapy,like when they're doing great
'cause it's when they'rechallenged that um, it's a
little bit harder to learnskills, so it's been
interesting.
We're like, yeah, it's time forour tuneup.
And taking a look and beingreally honest, like, oh, I feel
(10:33):
really uncomfortable here.
This is where like, I know Ineed to be pushed a little bit.
Um, where are your clients andpatients?
Where's their resistance?
You know, where, where do youfind people most resistant to
taking the next leap?
Diane (10:50):
Oh, it's all, it's a great question, and honestly the
answer is all over the board.
You know, it's, it's Everywhere.
It's like, you know, like whatyou're saying, Dr.
Willow around like Chinesemedicine, like I look at it as
like following the qi, right?
That's what we say in Chinesemedicine is like you just, you
pay attention to the qi and, andso it's the energy and I think.
You know, to your point Leah,around like safety and
(11:12):
resistance, I think one of thebiggest things for people is
understanding that hey, like,like beginning to differentiate,
Hey, this is resistance becausemaybe I'm not ready to go here,
versus like, this is resistancebecause this is hard.
And to, you know, to determinethat next step.
And I do think it's helpful todo this work as a couple because
(11:34):
like you said, couples come intothis at different spots and
different places and oftentimeshave different, you know,
strengths versus, you know,challenge and growth areas.
So we can kind of support eachother and help each other.
And I think one of the biggestthings in like doing any of the
work is starting in many ways,if something is challenging,
then coming back to the body andyou know, doing Tantric
(11:56):
practices, doing breath work,doing other embodiment
practices, and the more we canbe in our body and actually
approach this from thatstandpoint, then if something is
challenging, then the way Iencourage people to do that is
like, move to this next step andsee if you can like, stay in
your body and stay like with anyintensity.
And if you're popping out,meaning if you're becoming
(12:16):
disembodied and all of a suddenyou're kind of like checking
out, you're getting spacey,you're not able to stay present
in the moment.
That might be a sign that, oh,this is like push the pa uh,
past your safety threshold.
And maybe we need like adifferent way in.
Maybe we need to talk about thisdifferent, you know, maybe you
need to start at a differentpoint.
So that embodiment and thatability to practice that, which
(12:39):
I think is something that is acontinued practice for all of us
is a huge signal for theindividual to decide, hey, yeah,
this is, this is differentiatingfrom, I am safe to do this even
though it's hard versus likemaybe there is a level of like
smart wisdom in my body sayingmaybe I'm not ready to go here
(13:00):
yet.
Willow (13:01):
That's a really important distinction.
It makes me, it makes my Chinesemedicine brain go to the, the
small intestine like the, thegreat discerner, you know, and
it's, it's this place inside ofus of, you know, the old adages
of like, listen to your gut.
What's your gut telling you?
You know, and it's sort of likethe, it's the enteric brain of
the body, like the originalbrain of the body where we kind
(13:23):
of, you know, develop from, and,and so you know, listening to
that first instinct, that firstgut reaction of like, I ha, ooh,
I have resistance because I'mafraid of what's on the other
side, and I don't know how tosurrender through that
resistance.
I need help with that.
Versus I have resistance andit's so deep, I can feel it in
(13:47):
my bones, and it just, it meansI'm not, I'm not there.
I'm not ready for that
Leah (13:51):
not resourced enough to process maybe this piece, like,
you know, I need to be groundedmore.
I need to be better resourced.
I need to have certain types ofsupport in order to feel safe,
even though I'm doing somethingscary or hard.
Willow (14:05):
Yeah.
Diane (14:06):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I love that.
the Chinese medicine for that aswell.
It's, uh, you know, the, thephysical of that is like sorting
the good from the not needed inour food.
Right?
And it's like that sameenergetics.
It's like information comes inand, you know, the small
intestine energy in a healthysmall intestine qi is going to
(14:26):
do to be able to do thatemotionally, mentally, with
information to say, oh, this isuseful to me, versus like, this
actually doesn't resonate withme, which we need to apply I
think every day.
Willow (14:37):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (14:38):
that.
I love that phrase is, um, beingable to sort out the good versus
the not needed.
Willow (14:44):
Yeah.
Separating the pure from theimpure.
Yeah.
Leah (14:47):
you know, way of saying something and it really shines a
light.
Like I can't help but reflect onmy own life.
Like, you know, I'm.
Craving different things andlike sort of the junk that I
usually indulge in.
I'm noticing I don't even wantthat.
That's like, it's not needed atthis time.
Something else, something goodis different that is calling for
(15:09):
my attention and I'm so happythat it's linking to my desire.
Um,
Diane (15:14):
Yeah.
Willow (15:16):
Diane, how did you get how I wanna hear the, let's,
let's roll back.
Let's zoom out.
Let's talk about your Genesisstory and like how you got into
sexology, how you got intohealing, how you got into
naturopath, Chinese medicine,all the things.
Diane (15:31):
I grew up real Catholic as super religious and so, you
know, sex before marriage,masturbation, any of that was
very wrong.
My genitals were just downthere, you know, kind of
conversation.
And when my, when I went tocollege, I had a really good
friend who became my roommates.
I started having this unknownvulvar pain, and I say unknown
(15:55):
because I, you know, went todocs and nobody was.
Everybody was like, well,there's no infection, there's no
disease, there's no problem.
But this pain was keeping me upat night.
It would get really bad atnight.
And so my friend, my roommate atthe time, after you know me,
confiding in her, you know aboutthis continually and my
frustration, she handed me abook, and the book was Betty
(16:18):
Dotson's, sex For One.
And you know, for anybodylistening that has read this
book, you may remember that inthat book, Betty talks about not
only the power of masturbation,but she talks about.
Her experience of pain andother, you know, other symptoms
going away.
And so, you know, reading thisand kind of struggling, I was
(16:39):
like, all right, I'm gonna bebrave.
I'm gonna try self-pleasure.
And that was my first experiencewith masturbation.
And lo and behold, the pain wentaway.
Leah (16:49):
Wow.
Diane (16:50):
I an orgasm.
It was just like self flavor.
I was just like, okay, this isamazing.
And then next day pain was back.
Try it again.
Pain went away again.
So I did this for a period ofseveral days.
I don't remember the specificnumber, but eventually the pain
just went away.
Totally.
And you know these moments inlife where it's like.
All beliefs leading to a point.
(17:11):
And then there was somethingthat like challenges, a belief
and it like completely crumbles.
It was like, you know, one ofthose kind of moments where I
was like, okay, so there's this,this energy, we call it spirit,
god, universe, what everybody,whatever anybody calls it, and.
This energy that's supposed tobe like, like making me like,
you know, super powerful and youknow, perfect in their eyes and
(17:34):
all these things, you know,perfectly imperfect and all of
that stuff.
How could I have this thing thatis a way to heal myself that is.
Bad for me.
So that it was just soimpactful.
So that's when I started readingbooks and, you know, getting my
hands on whatever, you know, Icould, and talking to who,
whatever, who had whatever, letme, which back in those days was
(17:55):
like, everything was so, youknow, this was the late
nineties, early two thousands.
So things were really taboo backthen, even more so than now.
But that was, that was theoriginal genesis story.
Leah (18:07):
I'm wondering if people listening who are experiencing
vulva pain, can you talk aboutwhat that sensation was like?
Was it just like in the labiallips?
Could you feel it in the pelvicfloor?
What was that pain?
What can you describe thesensation?
Diane (18:21):
Yeah, it was not just the lips.
It was, it was like deepinternal, like I, I think, you
know now with more of ananatomical knowledge, I think it
was all the way even into mybladder area, right?
So it was very deep, it was veryinternal and it wasn't like
this, like the sensation's alittle hard to describe because
it wasn't like this like, likesharp, like a pinched nerve,
(18:43):
anything like that.
It was almost like this, I guessgripping would be the right
word.
It was like almost this likegripping sensation that was,
that was just, there.
And it wasn't on a scale of howbad it was, by no means like a
10 out of 10 with it being likesevere like that.
But it was just like thatcontinued like, like the other
way I would describe it is I wasconstantly aware of my vulva and
(19:05):
vagina, almost like when youstub a toe and the pain starts
going away, but your brain'sstill thinking about the toe.
Willow (19:11):
Mm-hmm.
Diane (19:12):
Like that's another way I would describe it, where my
brain was just like, there's myvagina, there's my vulva.
Like my brain was justconstantly aware of like.
Something's wrong here.
Willow (19:21):
Hmm.
How long was it?
How long was it going on?
Diane (19:24):
Uh, it's hard to say because this was so long ago.
Six months maybe.
Something like that,
Willow (19:31):
So it just kind of came on all of a sudden.
Yeah.
Diane (19:34):
No known, no known reason.
Never figured it out.
Willow (19:37):
Very
Leah (19:38):
So it was like a, a tight gripping ache versus a sharp
shooting, burning or
Willow (19:44):
Now, did you ever think about later on as you were
getting into the Meridiansystem, did you ever think about
like, oh yeah, well the liverruns through the genitals.
I was really stressed at thattime.
I was, hadn't done a livercleanse, wasn't eating well,
anything along those lines.
Diane (19:58):
I mean it was, you know, that was definitely during my,
uh, rockstar party day.
So all of that was
Willow (20:03):
liver was activated.
Diane (20:05):
liver was activated.
Um, certainly I think bladder,kidney meridians were probably
probably involved as well.
You know, the.
Willow (20:13):
Some fear maybe.
Diane (20:14):
Fear, the ability to, you know, sink deep.
And even when we think aboutlike, you know, the kidney
energy is, you know, it's likethat, that deep in it's like
that ability to really sink indeeply, Um, that super watery,
intuitive type of energy.
And I like, like symptom wise,it coming out at night, for
(20:34):
example.
You know, that could have beenan impactful part of it as well.
Leah (20:39):
interesting.
So that orgasm really helped,um.
Uh, move that stagnant Chi, doyou think?
Diane (20:49):
Well, even just the sensation.
'cause I don't, I don't believe,I know that first night I did
orgasm and I don't have any,remember like memory of actually
orgasming any of that time.
You know, I didn't really knowhow to orgasm at, at all back
then.
Um, I'd never experiencedorgasm, so I don't even think
that I had an orgasm any of thetimes I was doing it, if I
remember correctly.
(21:10):
I think it was just bringingmore circulation and more
awareness.
I was breathing, I rememberbreathing a lot and, and
whatnot.
And just feeling in, you know,that area.
Maybe there was some level of,um, release with the tissue, you
know, tightening and thenreleasing.
So, you know, mechanistically,that's kind of how I've thought
(21:30):
about it.
Um, but from a standpoint oflike orgasm, I don't even
remember orgasming them, whichis just shows like the power of
this.
Like we know how powerful orgasmis and, but also is just even
like the touch along the way.
Willow (21:44):
Right,
Leah (21:44):
right.
It's, I think that, I'm glad youmentioned that because that can
be really under, um,underestimated just the power of
bringing our conscious touch,our awareness and our breath to
this private part of our bodythat is oftentimes shrouded in
fear, guilt, and shame.
And that can just be creating aholding pattern all by itself is
(22:06):
just our cultural conditioningaround how we feel about our
genitals.
Diane (22:11):
When I decided that I was going to, you know, really turn
this into a business and really,you know, put a lot more energy
into getting this work and thisinformation out to the world,
which was.
Um, at the end of my marriageand into my next partnership, so
when my marriage ended, liketowards the end of that, we were
(22:33):
polyamorous.
So we had opened up ourrelationship and we both had
different reasons to do so.
For me, my main objective withthat was I was not feeling like
the relationship was working forme and that we were in a place
that I thought was fixable.
And so I was just trying tofigure out like.
Is there an alternative solutionthat I can be still in this and
(22:55):
still get some of the otherthings like filled up in my life
that I felt like were essentialto me, that were just not
happening in my partnership?
Leah (23:03):
Oh.
Diane (23:03):
And it ended up not because of, of polyamory, um,
that actually was, I would say,very successful from a
standpoint of how we werecommunicating on that.
But it ended up for, for severalreasons, turning, you know, kind
of, kind of messy and prettyhard towards the end.
And my partner, who I was with,who I'm still with now in a
(23:25):
monogamous relationship, he wasjust amazing at any of the
stress.
And I had a lot of career stressgoing on.
We were trying to set, we owneda business together.
We were working on separatingthat, which was just messy.
And my partner was just givingme profound orgasms and I would
be so stressed and not beingable to sleep and not being able
(23:45):
to sleep and not being able tosleep.
And he was basically, I would,you know, say healing me with
touch with pleasure, withorgasms in part too.
His approach to me with all ofthis, the way that he was able
to create so much safety for meand I was feeling very unsafe in
my life.
(24:06):
And the mental, like the mentaland physical ways that he like,
like physically meaning hispresence, that he was able to
show up and create safety, alsocontinued to put effort,
continued to put energy into thedepth that I was able to go into
(24:26):
orgasms, the length of orgasmsthat I was able to maintain.
You know, those kind of things.
And so it really is like a typeA sympathetic, like, you know, I
have two doctorate degrees, Ihave a bazillion certifications.
Like I am not a sit home and donothing kind of woman, and I
(24:46):
don't tend to like move intothat parasympathetic world very
easily.
I tend to like thrive on likeproductivity and overwhelm.
So to.
Leah (24:57):
Show of hands if you can relate?
Diane (25:02):
So to like have this experience, to have somebody in
the state, which was one of themore intense, stressful periods
of my life and, and havesomebody really show me the
depths of what pleasure can dofor bringing down that
overwhelm, for resetting mynervous system, for preparing me
(25:24):
for whatever challenges camethat next day to be resourced.
It took everything that I hadalready been studying and it
really showed me like the levelof healing on a completely
different level.
And that's when I was like,alright, I better, I better
start sharing this with theworld because like you said,
like, like, who out there is notthis current society?
(25:46):
You know, so many of us, most ofus are, are living in this hyper
hypers sympathetic fight orflight overwhelm a lot.
Willow (25:54):
Healed by orgasms.
Hooray.
Leah (25:57):
Yes.
And those profound experienceswith a partner who's so present
and who's so safe and who haprobably has some skills, you
know, uh, that all come to playtogether.
Who's really invested in youbeing all that you can be and
gets to, um, bask in yourpleasure as like, probably one
(26:17):
of the greatest rewards.
Um, there's a certain evolvedpartner who can provide that and
anchor that for someone else'snervous system.
And I'm curious to hear from youwhat made that possible for him
to show up for you in that way?
Diane (26:39):
it's such a good question.
Yeah, I think it's, it's acombination of a lot of things.
Like I have studied a lot ofAlison Armstrong's work and her
work on understanding men andunderstanding women, and this
relationship was the first timeI really felt like I was
applying it fully.
(26:59):
And so there was a level ofgoing into it and instead of
seeing as all, you know, Allisonwould say, where it's like so
many, it's so easy as womenbecause we don't understand men,
to look at men as in comparingthem to like the perfect wor
woman.
Right, and instead of actuallyrealizing like, oh, this is
(27:19):
actually how their brains, youknow, function differently, it's
like, you know, her work I feellike blows other work on the
feminine masculine just outtathe world from understanding
the, the thinking process.
Willow (27:30):
Mm-hmm.
Diane (27:31):
So there was definitely something there.
Leah (27:33):
specific way that their systems can receive.
Uh, her
Diane (27:36):
Yeah, helping them to be successful, you know, it's like
men are, it's like made me fallin love, like not only with him,
but with the masculine ingeneral, because I understand
men in such a different way andunderstand that like, oh, like
men are amazing at like reallywanting to, like a, a really
embodied man is amazing atreally wanting to provide so
many things for his partner,
Willow (27:57):
Yeah.
Another, another, um, anotherperson who Allison is always
kind of touting is, uh, LouannBrizendine She's the, she wrote
the Male Brain and the FemaleBrain.
I'm sure you've read thosebooks,
Diane (28:08):
I have actually not read
Willow (28:09):
Oh, you gotta read
Diane (28:10):
you're giving good homework.
Willow (28:12):
Yeah.
You are gonna, they're gonna becandy to you because it's just,
it goes through, she's a brainneuroscientist and so she, um,
you know, just really goesthrough the how, how the
amygdala works.
How the, you know, how thecorpus callosum works in the
male and female brains, how thedifferent chemicals run through
the body.
(28:32):
And um, I have given thosebooks, Allison's work and those
two books to so many people, andeven even moms of teenage boys,
and they're like, oh, I get itnow.
You know?
And it's like, we really aresuch, like the, the male brain,
the female brain.
We really are such different,different creatures and we see
things so differently, so tounderstand.
(28:53):
And Allison has given such ahuge gift to the world.
We're such big fans as well ofher work.
Leah (28:57):
Yeah.
Diane (28:58):
Yeah, she's amazing.
Leah (28:59):
We've, we'll list Alison's episode, uh, on sex reimagined
here in the show notes.
For those of you who aren'tfamiliar with her work, you'll
really delight in that, uh,interview.
Um, yeah.
Okay.
So Allison's work was a biginfluence.
Was there anything else that hebrought to the table that you
think, um, uh, men or women whoare listening to this would gain
(29:21):
value?
By maybe adapting some of thethings he brought to the table
or learning some of the thingsyou know, that he had skills
with coming into therelationship.
Diane (29:30):
Here was a huge and unique thing about, uh, my
partner is, and it wasn't justwas, is, is I should say.
Um, he is deaf.
So he actually lost his hearingwhen he was an infant of
meningitis.
And what that means in ourrelationship, he's an amazing
lip reader, right?
So he could be here talking toany of us and you know, and can
(29:52):
read lips extremely well.
But what that means is that inorder for him to understand me,
I can't talk a million miles anhour.
I can't talk like this becausehe can't read my lips that way.
And this whole thing that likewe're taught as humans around
like, slow down, think aboutwhat you're gonna say.
All these kind of things.
(30:14):
It forced me to develop thatskill because if I would say
something too fast, he'd belike.
I can't hear you, honey.
And then I'd have to go back andsometimes I'd even get a second
shot at saying things because Isaid it fast and maybe not well,
and it was like, oh, okay, nowhere's my opportunity to go back
and practice.
(30:35):
So I had a natural cue built into my relationship.
Right.
Willow (30:40):
What a cool way to bring the sympathetic dominant down
into the parasympathetic.
That's great.
Diane (30:47):
And so, you know, from a standpoint of this is not what
most couples are going to be in,but even just thinking about,
okay, is there any sort of cuethat if they're gonna have a
challenging conversation, like,you know, do you wanna consider
having a special sound thatlike, oh, we're gonna have a
challenging conversation.
Maybe throw some Tibetan bell,you know, you know Tibetan music
(31:09):
on where there's just like abell every once in a while and
every time you hear the bell,you know, that's a trigger for
you to remember slow myself downbecause it just, it was
unbelievable.
And now, you know, we're fourand a half years in, so I'm very
acclimated to this.
But in the beginning it was so,so amazing how many times I
(31:30):
would find myself jumping andleaping without thinking,
without choosing my words reallythoughtfully, and and it forced
me to, to do that.
Willow (31:40):
Are you an Aries by chance?
Diane (31:42):
I'm not, I'm actually a cancer.
Willow (31:44):
Oh, you're, you got the, the slow watery in you actually.
Well, it must have been such arelief to your nervous system to
start to be like to actuallyembody and be in practice of
slowing down.
And I imagine too that itchanged the way that you
delivered your message andtaught to your students and your
clients and
Diane (32:04):
Hundred percent.
Yeah, I'm, I spend a lot moretime now just like internally,
how is my cadence?
Like, you know, am I talkingfaster than people keep up with
me because.
Like I said, I'm Type A and youget me going my natural tendency
is like, you know, running on atrain that's like completely
lost.
Its breaks just as fast as canbe.
Willow (32:27):
Hmm.
So tell us about, uh, your worklike, you know, if you're
pulling from all these amazingdifferent modalities, what,
what's one of your favoritethings that you get to help
people with and teach them andguide them through?
Diane (32:41):
You know, I love talking about the brain and the high
that we get in new relationshipenergy and dopamine, and what
dopamine is doing to drive thatchemical change in the beginning
of the relationship.
Because I think from astandpoint of getting out of our
sexual scripts and bringing morenovelty in.
(33:04):
And you know, back to how weintroduce this particular
conversation around, okay, wellhow do we not get in the G
chord?
Right?
How do we continue to add newthings?
Well, some of that isunderstanding.
What drives passion, you know,and a lot of the beginning part
of that new relationship energyis because of not only the
(33:25):
novelty, but it's like the spacebecause how dopamine works and
dopamines are reward as well asour motivation, brain chemical.
And so in that new relationship,when we don't know if they're
gonna call.
We don't know if they're gonnatext and we're like thinking
about it and there's kind of amotivation.
There's a little dopaminesaying, I hope they call.
I hope they call.
I hope they call.
(33:45):
And then they call and then Pinggets a ton more dopamine.
And then it's like, well, youget that anticipatory for that
date.
And the same thing happens for,are they gonna text after the
date and the first kiss?
And.
All the things.
And so one of the things thathappens when we combine and we
move in together or combine ourlives in any way, we are taking
(34:05):
away kind of that space and thatanticipation, right?
And that's where like adding thenovelty back in it, it's so
helpful.
But it's not just about that newthing.
It's not just about the C chordand the D chord and those new
chords.
It's about the way we introducethose chords because the more we
can say, okay, this is whereplanning can be sexy.
(34:26):
Because the more we can dothings around like, okay, well
on, you know, Friday night we'regonna try tying me up for the
first time, or you know, any newthing.
That's interesting.
Then if we talk about that,doing that on a Monday, then
what that's doing is it'sbringing back that dopamine.
So then we start thinking aboutit, and maybe we start flirt
texting again and it brings thatdopamine.
(34:47):
And so what we're doing is we'recreating that space between now
and this exciting thing andallowing the brain to think
about it and get used to it andget like excited about it.
And then when it happens, we getthat big rush of dopamine and by
it's applying those sameprinciples from a new
relationship energy to along-term scenario.
(35:07):
We're able to create in manyways, a lot of that chemical
drive that we had early on.
Willow (35:14):
Mm.
I love that.
So powerful.
And so with your couples who arecoming to you, they've been
together a long time.
They're like, yeah, we just.
Go down the same g chord all thetime.
What should we do?
You know, the, are you givingthem those kind of things.
Why don't you guys try tryingeach other up on Friday night?
Like, are you giving them actuallike techniques like Jabari and
and Tantra techniques and thingslike that
Diane (35:34):
Very, very much so.
Very much so.
I guess starting place forpeople is my yes, no, maybe
checklist, and that's atwww.MySexDoc.com for anybody
that wants that.
But even with that, like one ofthe important things I, and, and
the, let me take a step back Inthe Yes no, maybe checklist,
what it is is.
You take this and you say, oh,these are the things that we're
(35:54):
both interested in.
These are the maybes.
Are there anything that a maybecould be shifted to turn a maybe
into a yes, or how would a maybebecome a no?
But one of the important thingsI think about having support,
you know, from, you know, fromyou guys, from people like
myself through any of this isjust like anything, if we are
having the conversations around,well, you are a yes and I'm a,
(36:18):
maybe we could have to be socareful about how we have these
conversations because the egogets so involved.
So it's very, very.
Um, importance before we trythese conversations or we do
something like a yes no, maybechecklist that we have a, a
conversation around.
If you think something I bringup that I'm interested in is
(36:43):
maybe a little weird or it'ssurprising to you or anything
like that, we can actually pre.
Conversate have pre-framed thisand say, this is how I want you
to respond to me if you'resurprised by what I say.
And the reason we do that isbecause it can be a very, if, if
(37:04):
we don't have theseconversations, well, you know,
it can be such a trigger forpeople to be like, oh my gosh.
Like I am like turned off bythat.
And my partner likes that.
And like, it can be so easy forsomebody to spout something out
of their mouth that creates atrauma for the other person and
they were so vulnerable and nowthey shut down.
So before we even do that, wegotta pre-frame, this is how
(37:26):
we're gonna respond in thosescenarios.
Willow (37:29):
Gold right there.
Leah (37:30):
What's a good example?
Could you actually, um, give usan example of a, of a frame that
maybe some languaging that, um,a couple or maybe even people
who are dating for the firsttime as they kind of break into
communication styles.
Diane (37:46):
Yeah, so I'll give you an example.
And then the other thing in, youknow, considering this as a
listener is always make this, ofcourse, true and authentic for
you.
So the example I give may, mayor may not resonate with you,
but just as a, a starting point.
So a good thing to ask forsomebody is something like
(38:07):
curiosity.
So curiosity can be a, a usefulway of having these kind of
responses.
So for example, you know, let'ssay I'm going to ask my partner.
To tie me up and my partner hasnever heard this before and I'm
worried about how he's going torespond.
So I might pre-frame and say,Hey, I, you know, let's, let's
(38:28):
do our yes no, maybe checklist.
I wanna tell you a little bitabout, about some of these
things that came up as yeses forme.
There's a couple things that Ifeel a little nervous to tell
you about.
I've just, you know, I've nevertold anybody about this and it
just feels like really scary tome.
So, even if you don't like it,I'm wondering if you can, you
(38:49):
know, if you're not likingsomething, I'm wondering if you
can say, wow, what a beautifulexpression.
I am.
Like, so curious about, youknow, your interest in exploring
this and, and do you have anysense of like, you know, what
this would do for you or whyyou're interested in it?
And maybe I'm not.
(39:09):
I'm not really sure, or thismight be a, a hard no for me.
I'm not sure, but, but this issuch a beautiful expression of
sexuality and even if I can't dothis, I'm really interested in
knowing why this is alive foryou.
Something like that.
Willow (39:24):
That would be a much better response than, uh, I'm a
no.
Leah (39:29):
Yeah.
Or that's weird, or
Willow (39:30):
Yeah.
Shut it down.
Cause causing unnecessary shame.
We don't want that.
Leah (39:35):
right.
Yeah.
I think, uh, as we like toalways say, um, curiosity,
suffocates judgment, and what weall really want is to be
understood and gotten.
And so even though you may wanta yuck.
My yum.
Diane (39:49):
Yeah.
That's great.
Well said.
Leah (39:51):
Resist that expression of yuck and allow yourself to get
really curious.
While I'm really invested and Ireally care about this person,
and I wanna know more, I wannaknow, I wanna understand you
even more, and I can hold spacefor your desire without feeling
pressured to fulfill yourdesire.
Just the liberation of, ofseeking what do I desire deep
(40:15):
within ourselves, and thentaking the next step and having
courage to then explore what itfeels like to say what those
desires are out loud is such astep of bravery.
And to be able to hear yourselfhave that experience out loud
for you to be with someone whosays, your desires are safe with
(40:36):
me.
Even if they're not my desires,I care enough about you in this
moment right now, to know youmore and to, and to get what
this is about for you.
Diane (40:48):
Yeah, it's so, there's so much capacity, I think for
depth, you know, that can happenfrom those questions when we
don't shut it down.
Because, you know, even likeasking somebody like, you know,
what is interesting about this?
You know, for you, I'm reallycurious.
Right?
And maybe they don't know, like,we don't know the reason for,
there might not be a reason forall of our fantasy's.
Sometimes it's just like, wellthat sounds sexy and hot.
(41:10):
So there there might not beanything to be said, but it
there might be.
Right?
And sometimes we ask thequestion around, you know, what
is it?
And, and you know, ChAARI is sointeresting, right?
Like the idea of being tied upand many, many people have an
experience with it, of whenyou're actually restrained like
that, of actually feeling safeand held right.
(41:32):
And so
Leah (41:33):
Not trapped, actually held.
It's very fascinating how uponlooking at something for the
first time, you might haveassociations when, when you
actually look into it evendeeper.
Um, for many people it could bean opposite association.
And then to find out, well, whendid you first have that desire
and what does that remind youof?
(41:54):
And can open up just so muchcloseness.
Diane (41:57):
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And just having, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Willow (42:02):
And that's why people do it generally, is to, to, to drop
themselves into that subspace.
I, I, I'm, I'm guessing, I'mimagining for you, Diane, that
going into Subspace is likereally a powerful thing for you
since you do run at a yangdominant sort of drive and, and
natural nervous system.
(42:22):
And, um, you know, I've beendoing cranial sacral for a
couple decades now and, um, youknow, taking people into that
deep, deep relaxation.
Well, whereas a lot of timesthey kind of like go asleep or
they go into this, you know,liminal space.
So, and then, and then thepractitioner is kind of like
(42:43):
walking their nervous systemdeeper and deeper into this
subspace.
But what I have found myselffrom, from playing with sub/dom
roles and containment and goingin, is like you actually get to
walk yourself into thatsubspace.
And there's something reallyunique and powerful about that
(43:03):
to, to allow somebody to tie youup to, to contain you, to hold
you to surrender into, um, the,the container of someone else.
Really cool.
Diane (43:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's a reallygood example of how, one of the
things I say a lot is pleasureis not just about desire, but
something we require, and I saythat for several reasons, but
one of them is perfectlyillustrated by, you know what
you're bringing up, which is howmuch healing can actually happen
(43:37):
from everything from astandpoint of physical intimacy,
you know, expression, not even,of course, just, you know, way
beyond just, uh, penetration.
Right.
Exactly.
Leah (43:47):
I, I think that's a really interesting and defining um,
distinction that is worthexploring a little bit.
And I also have, I also haveanother other question I don't
wanna miss asking you.
Um, but to make this point firstis that.
We can learn new tricks,techniques, and love making
(44:08):
positions, right?
To activate our partner and toopen our partner to more
pleasure.
But when you bring up thehealing component, uh, it, what
it does to me is it deepenssomething.
So that how we play with eachother sexually has more meaning.
Not just friction and frictionis awesome, and learning about
all the science and what happensto the brain and how we build
(44:30):
arousal and attraction and allthat stuff.
We also, have so much incredibleinformation at our fingertips
that can explain neurologicallyand physiologically what's
happening through the science ofour attraction, our arousal, and
seeking more pleasure and higherpleasure.
But that's separate from sort ofthe healing aspects and the
(44:52):
spiritual or the sacred aspectsmake some of that devoid of
meaning.
And we are meaning makingmachines as humans.
And so I think we get to takepartnership and intimacy to a
much deeper level when we canapply some meaning to it.
And so you're, yes, no, maybechecklists is where it also
provides an opportunity for usto discover deep inside of
(45:14):
ourselves what meaning we makefrom these, you know,
attractions, desires,curiosities, yearning, longing,
so on and so forth, or big fatno's.
Willow (45:27):
What's on the checklist?
I wanna know what's on thatchecklist?
Leah (45:30):
Yeah, I wanna, what's on the checklist and I wanna know.
How do you help someone who'sreally stuck in their yuck, who
hears something that theirpartner says that is like really
big for them and they just havean aversion or a disgust and
they get really stuck in going,
Willow (45:50):
Like they can't even find their way to curiosity
around
Diane (45:53):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's I the answer to thatthere's so many different places
we can go, of course, like anyof these questions, but one of
my favorite ways to help peoplewith that is really linked in my
mind to you know, to, withoutgetting too sy, but to what is
happening to the brain withintimacy from a standpoint of
(46:14):
like meditation in an alteredstate.
Because when we are reallyembodied, right, when we are
practicing mindfulnessthroughout our intimacy, and the
mind wanders for a second, wecatch it and we bring it, bring
it right back to our body andthe sensations, and we're doing
that as we get into these morealtered states.
And you know, the more liminalspace that gets created, like
(46:35):
you had mentioned Dr.
Willow.
When we, when all of thishappens, just like with
hypnosis, our brain is moresuggestible.
So one of my favorite self, youknow, healing practices that I
love to do with my partner is tobring up anything that is, you
know, on my mind around like abelief that I'm like, this is
(46:56):
not serving me.
I need to reprogram the heck outof this.
Maybe there's a microtrauma Ihave from something he said, or
something somebody else said,and it's like in my
consciousness.
Whatever it is.
And I think about, and I talkopenly with him around like,
wow, this is what I, this iswhat I wanna program my nervous
system with.
This is the belief.
(47:16):
And so then at at moments withintimacy as like he can tell
that energy is heightened, youknow, he will whisper, you know,
in this very soothing veryparasympathetic dominant voice
while I'm in my body, while I'mconnected to my, you know, my
parasympathetic nervous system,he will be whispering these
mantras in my ear and likehelping me reprogram my brain.
(47:40):
So obviously if, you know, if apartner is involved in a
microtrauma like this, if theysaid something that did not feel
good and we're creating a storyand a belief and a meaning,
which we do as humans, ourpartner has to show up.
So this activity is, you know,in some ways like an advanced
activity for people.
But if you're at a point whereyour partner is like, you know,
(48:02):
you have that type ofcommunication and your partner's
willing to play here, it's areally fun way of, of actually
reprogramming the nervous systemand the belief and the story
while you guys are beingintimate and making love.
Willow (48:18):
Mm-hmm.
Diane (48:19):
Yeah.
Willow (48:20):
Amazing.
Diane (48:22):
And then on my yes, no maybe checklist.
There's, it's, it's aninteresting checklist because
there's a lot of things on therethat are not about sex.
So it's, it's intimacy and soit's, you know, it's various
things for, would you considerthis for a date night?
And then there's differentplaces, like the way I look at
novelty oftentimes is people,places, things and things that
(48:44):
fall into those threecategories.
So things could be anything suchas ropes or any sort of anything
in the BDSM world.
It could be vibrators.
It could be handcuffs, you know,it could be anything that's a
thing.
Um, places is obvious.
You know, I'd like to helppeople remember that places can
be as simple as like in yourcloset instead of in your bed,
(49:05):
right?
It can make these super smallchanges.
And, um, and then people, so I,I do work with monogamous
couples most primarily.
So the way I help people inmonogamy get into the role of
using people from a noveltystandpoint is through role
playing is one way.
Mm-hmm.
Um, through even doing thingslike wigs or costume play can be
(49:30):
another thing, So you're takinganother persona.
And I really love bringing inlike.
Archetypes from sensual dance orfrom S Factor from Sheila
Kelly's work and And thearchetypes I think are so
wonderful.
They're so phenomenal to playwith because they're almost like
these, you know, these differentpersonas and, and you know,
(49:51):
parts of us.
So for example, one archetype inS factor lineage is the
dangerous challenger.
And the dangerous challenger iskind of what she sounds like,
right?
She's like, she's kind of likeferocious.
She's like, you know, she's aboss.
She's a little dangerous.
She's edgy
Willow (50:08):
In my mind, she has a whip in her hand.
Like a
Diane (50:11):
might
Willow (50:11):
bowl whip.
Yeah.
She's wearing leather.
Leah (50:13):
In my mind, she's topping from the bottom.
Willow (50:16):
Yeah.
Leah (50:19):
Like a little brat.
Diane (50:21):
But that's exactly right.
So it's like the dangerouschallenger energy's gonna be
different in all of us.
And so it's a really fun thingto kind of get to know these
archetypes.
Like, you know, another one's aninnocent teaser.
And I think of that, like for methat's like the, you know,
almost like the high schoolcheerleader, right?
Like that type of vibe.
And, you know, almost kind ofgetting yourself in that state
(50:42):
around.
We all have these archetypes inus, some of them more dominant
than other, like any, you know,like just about any archetypical
model out there.
And so when we can actuallylearn about these and be like,
okay, well how am I gonna sinkinto the energy of the innocent
teaser.
And how would the innocentteaser show up tonight?
And what is, how would she moveand how would she make love and
(51:03):
how would she express?
And you know, it's interesting.
Sometimes I play with thiswithout even like telling my
partner.
And he'll be like, what waswhat?
What were you doing?
What was that?
So he can
Willow (51:14):
I like that.
Diane (51:15):
right?
Willow (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, What I love.
Leah (51:18):
they've
Willow (51:18):
know, I love that you're bringing the archetypes to, to
our conversation right nowbecause it's like we get to put
on a, a, a mask.
Like we get to put on adifferent person persona, a
different part of ourselves thatwe don't usually give ourself.
Oh, I'm not that, I'm not aninnocent teaser, I'm not a
challenger.
You know, like, that's not me,but let me put that on, play
(51:40):
that part and see what part ofme comes alive when I play that
role.
I just did the, um, the lightdark Institute's work with, with
their dark type stuff andsimilar kind of, you know,
archetypes like the, you know,the violent de, the violent
destroyer, you know, and thethe, um, the challenger and,
and, and the needy retch.
(52:01):
Oh my God, I need your love sobad.
I don't know, i'm never gonna beable to live without it, you
know?
It's just like, it feels good tojust allow yourself to go into
these different places insidethat we all carry, because
otherwise they're just lurkingin the shadows.
They're staying in theunconscious, and then somehow
they creep into our, you know,relationships with each other
(52:24):
and cause a little bit ofdiscord.
Diane (52:28):
Yeah, I think Carl Jung really got it right with the
shadow on that.
Willow (52:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Leah (52:33):
Well this has been so much fun and your work is so
fascinating.
We feel so touched and honoredto have you on the show.
Is there anything else you wannaleave our audience with any
other gem or treasure that maybethey could noodle over or even
practice?
Diane (52:50):
Yeah, well two things.
One, I do encourage everybody togo take my libido quiz because
that's gonna help you identifysome of those root causes behind
low libido.
So it's free quizwww.LibidoQuiz.com.
So I do encourage you to dothat.
And secondly, get Comfortablewith the fact that sometimes it
is awkward.
(53:10):
I think, you know, the, theavoiding awkward sex and
avoiding those awkward moments,and especially if somebody has
not been trying something for awhile, or maybe you haven't been
having sex or intimacy for awhile, you know, maybe you're
just, you know, in this bestfriend kind of role.
It can feel awkward and like,you know, without having all
(53:31):
that energy of that newrelationship energy, it's almost
like starting sometimes with thefirst kiss, without all of that
energy, and you have to figureout how do your lips fit
together again sometimes, andhow do you respond to their
style, right.
Leah (53:46):
Yeah.
Diane (53:47):
Sometimes still things happen.
Like my partner and I banged ourheads together during sex the
other day and had to take abreak because it really hurt.
You know?
So that was like an awkwardtransition, right?
And so, you know, so I think themore we can just accept that
when we're trying new things orwhen we're starting over that
it's, it's just being awkwarddoesn't have to be a bad thing.
We can make it silly.
(54:08):
We can, you know, we can laughabout it.
And, and just bringing thatacceptance into this is actually
a normal part of trying newthings.
Not everything's gonna work and,and not expecting it to, you
know, look like a, you know,perfect movie porn shot all the
time because that's just notrealistic.
Leah (54:25):
Yeah.
And remember, awkward can becharming and there's a lot of
erotic
Willow (54:29):
It's funny.
Leah (54:30):
and awkward, and it can be lots great fodder for laughter.
And yes, who doesn't wanna beconfident, but it's kind of
unrealistic in every situationand, and sex is the perfect
place for us to yearn forconfidence, but really be
awkward.
So just embrace that on your wayto confidence.
I love that.
Willow (54:50):
Yeah.
Diane (54:50):
exactly.
Leah (54:51):
And where can people find your yes no, maybe checklist.
Diane (54:55):
So that's at www.MySexDoc.com.
So super easy.
Yep.
Willow (54:59):
great.
Leah (54:59):
free also.
Diane (55:00):
free also.
Leah (55:01):
Two free gifts.
One episode.
That is exciting.
We'll make sure that's in theshow notes.
Willow (55:06):
Thank you Diane.
Such a pleasure to have youtoday.
Diane (55:08):
Same.
Thank you ladies.
Leah (55:10):
Okay, stay tuned because the dish is up next and you know
how much we like to dish it out.
Announcer (55:16):
Now our favorite part, the dish.
Leah (55:20):
Well, wasn't that just a yummy taster?
A
Willow (55:24):
So good.
Love Diane.
I love talking to her.
She's, uh, just, you know, she,she plays in the, in the realm
of so many things that I holdnear and dear to my heart.
So hormones and Chinese medicineand BDSM and you know, the
archetypes and fuck.
Kept going and going with
Leah (55:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Willow (55:46):
And like the neuroscience, she's real into
the neuroscience.
I love that.
Leah (55:50):
Yeah.
And, and the archetypes andNelson Armstrong, I mean, so
many realms that line up, you
Willow (55:57):
She's a sister.
Leah (55:58):
Yeah.
A sister from another Mr.
for sure.
Um.
Yeah, I really loved a lot ofthe things you brought to the
table that, um, you know, justembrace awkwardness is so key.
Being able to choose curiositywhen you're learning about your
partner and some of the thingsthey're uncovering about what,
what titillates them.
Willow (56:18):
Mm-hmm.
Leah (56:19):
Coming from a nonjudgmental space, the
yearning to be understood.
All those things are what Ithink deepen our intimacy.
And I think it answers thislonging that so many of us
discover inside of ourselves,which is the question, there's
gotta be something more to sex.
There just has got to besomething more than what I've
experienced so far.
(56:39):
And it's this, the, the meaningthat we make of things and our
ability to expose some of ourinner thoughts and our inner
desires to another person and tohave that be received, um, I
think is what builds that trustand what builds that safety so
that we can actually start to gothere.
Willow (56:58):
Oh yeah.
So, so beautiful.
And I love, you know, one of thethings that she really, that I
wanna highlight, that she talkedabout was how to have these
conversations of like, oh, I, Iwould like to try this.
And setting up your partner forsuccess by saying, Hey, I'm a
little nervous to tell you aboutthis, and before I go into ex
explaining what I am desiringand why I, this is what I wanna
(57:21):
hear back from you.
Here are the actual words that Iwanna hear back.
Let me give them to you straightso that it's easy for you to,
um,
Leah (57:31):
Get a
Willow (57:31):
hold.
Leah (57:32):
me.
Willow (57:33):
exactly.
Leah (57:34):
Yeah,
Willow (57:35):
Yeah.
Co-creating those win-wins is,is so, so my, uh, an amazing
part of what she does.
Leah (57:42):
yeah.
All right.
Well, cool.
Thanks y'all.
Please, uh, like, comment andsubscribe.
Tell us what you think aboutthis episode and what it means
to you and we will catch younext time.
Love, love, love.
Willow (57:53):
Much level.
Announcer (57:56):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.
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