Meirav Rosenberg: Strategic Dating - Why I Treated Finding Love Like A Business Campaign (And It Worked) | #152 - The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Willow (00:06):
What happens when you apply ruthless business
analytics to your dating life?
Our guest today tracked 61stdates like a marketing campaign,
and discovered the algorithm tofinding love that dating apps do
not want you to know.
So in the next interview, she'sgonna reveal the
counterintuitive strategy thatfinally worked after all

(00:30):
conventional dating advicefailed her.
So I'm Dr.
Willow Brown.
I'm here with the One and onlyLeah Piper.
We are the co-hosts of the SexReimagined podcast, which you're
tuning into today.
And today we interviewed MeiravRosenberg.
So you're gonna love this woman.

Leah (00:47):
Yes.
Tune in, turn on, and fall inlove with Meirav.

Announcer (00:52):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.

Willow (01:01):
Welcome Meirav, we're so excited to have you here.
You were actually a, referral tous from, from one of my coaches
in Israel, so I'm so excited.
He told me all about your workand everything you're doing, and
I just think it's, it's reallyexciting.
So tell us how you even gotstarted on this, on this
journey.

Meirav (01:23):
Um, well, like my journey started a long time ago.
I've had some, so, um, I'massuming we're talking about the
60 dates, but like altogether,yeah, I was definitely a for,
very happy to be here.
Um, and I think that I startedit a while ago when I actually
built my own business and mybusiness came from marketing and

(01:46):
I studied business as my, mydegree, and then I moved on to
be in pr.
And then I moved on to be amarketing director at a theater
hall, which I love theater, andI studied theater in high
school.
And going all the way back tohaving a very abusive, I think,

(02:07):
financially abusive relationshipwhere I actually needed to, to,
to be financially independent.
I already had children and Ireally needed to find, uh, a way
to make money and have thefreedom to do exactly what I
wanted and to get everythingthat I wanted for my children.
And that's how, I guess Istarted working days as a

(02:30):
marketing director and nightsbeing, um, a web designer,
learning like by myself how todesign a website.
I did it for where I was workingat, and then obviously all the
marketing that came with it.
Digital marketing wasn't a thingback in 2010, I think it was
just getting started.
Facebook was something that Iknew, but not everyone yet.

(02:53):
And there were startingcampaigns and, well, I started
doing it for private people andreally getting paid very nicely
on my side hustle until it grewinto my main hustle.
And then what I really did wasjust take someone, showcase his

(03:15):
best qualities in order to thenget, you know, business for him.
And fast forward so many yearslater, I finally made enough
money to be financiallyindependent, open up my New York
business in 2017 and moved toNew York with my then husband

(03:39):
and three kids.
And I really found that it gaveme so much balance in
understanding what was going athome as opposed to how great I
was at my work and I thought tomyself like, okay, that really
built so much self-belief inmyself that I could go out and

(04:01):
then get divorced.

Leah (04:04):
Okay, so let me get this straight.
You are in the marketing worldand finding tons of success.
You had distanced yourself froma relationship where there was
maybe some financial abuse andyou knew that you wanted to be
independent, and so boom, boom,boom.
You work hard.
You're a success.
You're a New York City, you'rerunning your own business, and
you've noticed that byshowcasing your clients, that

(04:29):
you, you could take that skill.
And as you found yourself singleagain, you took that skill and
you found a way to enter intothe dating world for your
personal life kind of borrowingfrom the skills you've learned
as a marketing person, marketingguru, and were able to become
more successful in the datingworld.
Is that, did I get that right?

(04:49):
Is that where we're headed?

Meirav (04:51):
I think there are a little bit of other things that
went through.
We came back from New York backto Israel where I now live

Leah (04:59):
Okay.

Meirav (05:00):
and then like we separated as soon as we came
back to Israel and I actuallyhad to spend my dating during
COVID and quarantine.
So that's on another, I thinksomething that we did miss and I
was definitely, definitelythinking to myself, okay, so no
men are outside.

(05:20):
There's no bars, there's nocoffee shops, there's no
restaurants.
There's

Willow (05:26):
dating apps.

Leah (05:27):
Yeah.
It's like taking online datingto the next level because
there's not a lot of in-persondating.

Meirav (05:34):
As much as I believe that app dating for everybody is
just opening up your soul toreally kind of wanting to
receive.
Someone, if it's for sex, ifit's for for love, if it's for a
relationship, if it's forfriendship, if it's for like
anything.

(05:55):
I believe that at that time whenI was actually looking for love
for like my really true love,'cause I was done wasting my
time with like nonsense, um, Ireally remember being super
fucking horny.
That was mostly what I remember.

(06:16):
Because in Israel, no,seriously, because in Israel, I,
I'm writing a book right now.
It starts with that.
It doesn't start with that, butit

Leah (06:25):
It starts with I was really fucking

Willow (06:26):
was super fucking horny.
I was in Israel.
It was COVID.
What did I do?

Meirav (06:32):
no, it wasn't even COVID because in Israel we have
certain rules because I'm Jewishand because I have to be
divorced in.
Um, our rabbi, which is like aplace of like the rabbis and
where you got married.
And in Israel you have to nothave sex with anyone until you
are formally divorced.

(06:54):
And this could actually, like,really hurt you in the, the
civil law.

Leah (06:57):
Say, how will they know?

Meirav (07:00):
Well, if you don't get married with, no, but if you get
married to someone who doesn'twanna get divorced, they would
know.
Okay.
So I was really scared of that.
And as soon as I got divorced, Iwas really, really warning, but
also I had to know that I wouldwanna be safe and like keep my
own body safe, which issomething that I had struggled

(07:23):
with as a child.
And I remember, okay, so nowwhat do I do?
I don't know anybody.
I'm going on dating apps.
It's like all random people.
And all of a sudden I came fromthis not only financially, but
also emotionally abusiverelationship.
And I actually thought I was asix.

(07:45):
Okay.
Have you I was probably like 50pounds overweight, but still
this pretty Okay.
Yeah,

Willow (07:52):
She is pretty Y'all.
If

Leah (07:54):
pretty to you.

Willow (07:54):
you're, if you're not watching on YouTube, go check
her out.

Leah (07:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gorgeous

Willow (07:58):
and a resilient as hell.
I love this.
Keep

Meirav (08:02):
I'm definitely resilient to tell.
And like two c-sections.
I had a twin pregnancy and liketrain wreck of a tummy.
I had a lot of lowself-confidence.
I thought I was a six because myhusband made me think I was a
three.
And like then you go on thedating apps and, and really it
was pretty simple.

(08:23):
It was actually pretty simplebecause all of the rules that I
had applied to any of myclients, which is like, okay,
what do you need?
Like a beautiful bio picture.
So like, don't I have abeautiful, I I know how to take
a selfie.
Okay.
So I like, I know, I know whatthe best parts of me are.

(08:44):
So yeah, let's do some photos.
I know where I need to like beplacing.
My, you know,

Willow (08:51):
Your assets.

Leah (08:53):
assets.

Meirav (08:53):
my assets.
Exactly.
I'm pointing to my, and I knewwhat my assets were and I
showcased myself.
And then you have to actually dothe work before.
So, right, like for anybusiness, and we all know this
and you, you know, coaches, whatdo they do?
you have to have a businessplan.
So like, I had a business plan,the business plans was finding

(09:16):
love.
Okay, now what, who, who's mytarget audience?
Right?
So men specifically for me,anyone and their choices.
And so I choose men.
What type of men do they need tobe of a certain age.
So it's really like if you woulddo like a Facebook campaign,
right?

Willow (09:35):
Like an avatar.
you gotta, yeah, you gotta havea certain target audience.
What's their age range?
What's their demographic?
What's, what's theirpsychographic?
What are

Leah (09:44):
Right.
Maybe how much money do theymake a year?
You know, what are some of theirvalues?
Right?
So you're kind of going throughthe those lists that if you were
coaching someone in business,you want them to target their
marketing to their ideal client.
Like who's the person that isbest for their business?
And you're applying that towho's my target audience for the

(10:06):
best mate?

Meirav (10:07):
Exactly, and that's exactly what I did.
So I knew that I knew how towrite my bio and I knew that, by
the way, although that, um, inIsrael, I would want, and that
was on my list.
Like full on huge list of thethings that I wanted.
Most are intuitively, but mostare not things that I've learned

(10:28):
of what I don't want.
And then take the opposite ofit, of what I do want in a man
and like being very positiveabout it.

Leah (10:36):
Can you give an example of that for someone who might be in
your position now who might bestruggling with online dating?
Give us an example of like, youknow what you don't want, but
you may not know what you dowant and how you use that hack.

Meirav (10:48):
Like from my marriage, I could tell you I didn't want
anyone cheap.
So the equivalent of it would besomeone very generous.
And I feel like generous is, islike a checklist that everyone
should have because if they'regenerous with their money,
they're also generous with theirheart.
They're also generous witheverything that they have

(11:08):
because they're generous.

Leah (11:10):
I'd being a generous lover is one of those things, like you
want someone who's invested indelights and pleasuring you,
who's not, you know, stingy ordoesn't reciprocate very well.

Willow (11:20):
Or like, I'll give you a little, if you give me a lot.

Leah (11:23):
Right?

Meirav (11:25):
I no like great sex is also on the list.
So like the generositydefinitely, yeah.
But also great sex should bethere.
Definitely.
Definitely applies there aswell.
And I think one of the otherthings that I thought to myself
that I want him to be very smartand very educated because not
only, not just because I ameducated and that doesn't matter

(11:47):
to me, but mostly I found thatcertain men are very like
hesitant if they're not as smartslash educated.
By the way, I don't think that'ssmart and educated are like, it
has nothing to do with oneanother.
You could be super smart anduneducated, but you could also
be very educated and not smart.

(12:08):
So I feel like, so I felt like Ineeded both.
I wanted someone who was smarterthan me, um, someone who could
keep the conversation going,that I would never run out of
things to tell them or talk tothem, but also be silent with
them.
So all of these were on thelist, and I remember having one

(12:28):
thing on the list that was superintuitive.
I have no idea why I chose it.
And, and it was crazy.
I asked for number three on mylist, someone who plays an
instrument.

Leah (12:40):
Huh,

Meirav (12:41):
I didn't ask

Willow (12:42):
didn't even know where that came from, huh?
You had no?

Meirav (12:45):
I didn't ask for a musician.

Leah (12:47):
some instinct.

Meirav (12:49):
It was an instinct.
And I remember, yeah, but Inever asked actually anyone
until I found my love, my 60tha, which we'll get to if he
plays an instrument.
So I really didn't even rememberthat

Leah (13:05):
Uhhuh.

Meirav (13:05):
because it wasn't that important.

Leah (13:08):
Now in hindsight, like looking at, wow, how interesting
that my instinct said thatsomeone who knows how to play an
instrument will be important forme.
Have you discovered thecorrelation yet?
Why a musician actually speaksto you now that you have one?

Meirav (13:26):
Um, he's not a musician at all.
I actually married a remarried,a pediatrician.

Leah (13:31):
Oh, okay.

Meirav (13:34):
didn't

Leah (13:34):
But does he play an instrument?
I guess as I'm

Meirav (13:36):
but he plays the piano.
He plays the piano, and I onlyheard him play once, so it

Leah (13:42):
in a band.

Meirav (13:43):
he's not in a band, he's not in.
But I remember, I think that youalways have visions probably of
the people that were

Leah (13:50):
oh.
Okay.

Meirav (13:52):
And I always had visions of like, I love beautiful hands.
That's also something that youshould write down, like if you
love beautiful hands.
Not everybody has that kind of,

Leah (14:03):
I like rough hands.
Yeah, I like big, rough hands.
Yeah.

Meirav (14:07):
Exactly.
So I, yeah, and, and reallyit's, it's, everyone likes
something super different.
That's something that I alsofound of like, your purpose is
totally different from anotherpeople's purpose and what you do
that comes easy.
Definitely doesn't come easy toanother person.
So I really feel like if we havea certain desire, then it's

(14:27):
there for a reason, and thatdesire applies to your soulmate.
So if you have that and youlisten to your instinct, then
you'll be better off findingyour true love instead of the
familiar things that you know.

Willow (14:42):
Right.
So the musician piece was justan instinct.
It wasn't something that wasreally important for you.
It was just intuition coming inand kind of like spirit telling
you the the man you're gonnafall in love with plays an
instrument.
So put it up there at the top ofthe list.

Leah (14:57):
Pay attention to those messages that come through.

Meirav (14:59):
That those whispers that you have no idea where they come
from.
Exactly.
Yeah.

Leah (15:05):
Any other clues like that?

Meirav (15:08):
Any other clues like that?
Well, I actually up after doingright, the, the list of your
target audience, I would say.
Right.
What do you want about him?
A KAA campaign.
Okay.
What do you want the client todo and what do you want the
client to be and who's yourfuture client?
Same thing with future soulmate.
And so the next thing that I didwas write down what our

(15:31):
relationship would be.
So that's a little bitdifferent, I would say, than
like a client, but also in aclient, I would say ratio, uh,
it would probably be what do youwant that client to do on your
website or anything like that.
So what I wanted was to kind offigure out what our relationship
would be.
So it would have to be dual,meaning me to him, him to me.

(15:54):
And I would write that down.
And one of the things that Iwrote, like I said, even though
I was in Israel, I wanted abilingual person.
So think about having datingapps in Hebrew, but you writing
your profile in English, right?
So if I want a bilingual, if youdon't understand English and
what I wrote on my profile,where I'm an English speaker as

(16:17):
well as a Hebrew speaker, don'ttalk to me.

Willow (16:22):
That's a great way to, to, um, narrow them down really
quickly.
Yeah.

Meirav (16:27):
Yeah.
But although like most peoplelooked at the blonde and, you
know, talked to me anyway, butyeah.
'cause I figured out by the way,that I was a nine.
Okay.
Like the amount of people thatwere on the apps have you be
COVID where you can find nowomen, nowhere else as well.
I was like, bombarded with somany people.

(16:50):
So you had to get reallyaccurate, really fast.
And so one of the things that Isaid that I want someone who
sends flowers often.
And I remember, you know, like Iwent down 60 dates on the 60th
date.
I remember going down to my, thenearest flower shop, the the
flower shop underneath mybuilding where I would buy

(17:12):
myself flowers every Wednesday.
And I remember coming to thestore on a Wednesday and she
said, you're not buying yourselfflowers today.
And I said, what?
And she said, someone bought youflowers.

Willow (17:25):
Mm

Meirav (17:26):
And she goes and says, and she goes and says, listen to
these words.
And he's very generous

Willow (17:33):
mm

Leah (17:34):
nice.

Willow (17:35):
he plays the piano.

Meirav (17:36):
like, she didn't say that yet, but he does.

Leah (17:43):
Right.

Meirav (17:44):
no, and, and you ask like, what's a generous bouquet?
Right?
And like a generous bouquet hereis probably like the equivalent
of, know, like a a hundreddollars.
He hasn't even met me, right?
It's before our first date wetalked, we, we decided to go out
on a Thursday at 11, have youquarantining?

(18:06):
Okay.
There were no, like, nowhere togo.
And I'd be like, everyone is intheir homes and there's no
restaurant, nothing is open.
And, um, he sends me flowers andhe, she says it's like it was a
probably$350 bouquet.

Willow (18:21):
How did he know where you bought flowers?
Did you tell him on your ontalks?
On phone calls?
I,

Meirav (18:28):
so he needed to pick me up, not the apartment number,
but he did know my neighborhoodbecause he used to live in my
mom's building.

Willow (18:40):
oh,

Meirav (18:42):
So he knew there was a flower shop and calling him up,
telling him, thank you for theflowers, which he had the most
beautiful, beautiful, like, youknow, like card attached to it.
Written so beautifully.
And then he says, um, you know,my sister.
And I said, who's your sister?
And he says, Donna.

(19:03):
And he and I, and I'm thinking,and I'm thinking, and I do like
the last name with the firstname.
And Donna was the realtor of theapartment that I, at that time
lived in.

Willow (19:15):
Oh my goodness.

Meirav (19:17):
So like,

Leah (19:19):
Lots of synchronicity.
Yeah, I love that.

Willow (19:22):
Yeah.

Meirav (19:23):
many synchronicities.
And so he asked the flower shopif he knows me, which he
obviously does.
And she said, of course I do.
And then he says, I'm not askingher obviously her apartment
number, but can you send her areally big bouquet?
And that's the first thing thatshe says that he's generous and
check, check off my list, right?

(19:43):
Buys flowers often and agenerous, and while he's a
doctor.
So that helped a lot.
That helped a lot

Willow (19:53):
Not just any doctor, a

Meirav (19:55):
not just exactly, but also the check education mark.
Check smart, probably mark,right?
So you can find so many filtershave been answered by just these
characteristics.

Willow (20:11):
So just by getting clear, just by writing it all
down, I want the nice hands, Iwant the generous, I want all
these pieces, right?
These, like, I think all, a lotof women, more so than men, are
probably really adept at likewriting these lists, right?
So once you've got it reallyclear and dialed in and spelled

(20:33):
out who this person is, what arethe next steps on dating apps?
Like how did you, how did youtake this list and apply it to,
I know you wrote, wrote it inyour profile, that's of course
very helpful.
Um, but what else?
Like how did you sort throughthis entourage of, of people
were coming at you?

(20:53):
Like how did,

Meirav (20:54):
me, it, it took me a while.
60 days.
It took me

Leah (20:58):
How long did were those 60 dates like and how much time did
you have?

Meirav (21:02):
Six months,

Leah (21:03):
six months, Okay.
And you mentioned like.

Willow (21:07):
That's really not that long.
Y'all who are listening outthere and looking for love and
have been looking for years, sixmonths is not that long.

Leah (21:15):
But maybe that also like illustrates the success maybe
following, um, Meirav'sexperience, right?
Protocol.
So it's what I pick up and whatyou're describing is values.
You were naming values of yoursand highlighting that.
Is there anything more you wannasay about values and what people
can ask themselves to get clearabout their values that they may

(21:38):
wanna put into a profile?

Meirav (21:40):
I actually just figured that out, meaning four and a
half years into my secondrelationship, I just figured out
the, like the values portion ofit, meaning I thought more of
like a mission statement, but Ido now think more of the values.
Um, I think there's a differencebetween the list that I made
about what I want in my man,what I want a relationship to

(22:04):
be, and then we have the valuesbecause sometimes I think that
people don't take into accounthow much values are such an
important part, like if you havedifferent.
If you have different politicalstance, which I'm not a
political person, but if youhave different pol, it's just
another thing that you have, Iwould say, misplaced in your

(22:28):
value system.
So I'm a person who thinks thatin order to be with a good
partner, love is not enough.
You do have to have a lot ofcorrelation into your values and
also into their priorities.
Meaning we can have the same setof values, but we have different

(22:48):
priorities in them.
Then we're, we're like buckingheads.
yeah, yeah,

Willow (22:53):
heads.
Yeah.

Leah (22:54):
yeah.
Willow.
And.
I really feel strongly aboutvalues too, as when we work with
people.
Willow, you wanna say a littlebit about how you help people,
you know, figure out theirpartner's values so they speak a
common language?

Willow (23:04):
It's like one of the first things to really, um, for
a couple to understand whetherthey've been together for 50
years or 20 years or two months.
It doesn't matter.
Yeah.
There's just, um, understandingwhat your own core values are,
first of all is like a hugemissing hole for a lot of
people.
And I always like to boil itdown to two, like, what are your

(23:25):
top two core values?
And so we've got a little, youknow, worksheet on that little
list of values that you cancircle all the ones that are
really important to you, andthen eventually narrow it down
to two, and then compare thosevalues with your partners, top
two or three core values.
And are they a match?
You know, when I first starteddoing this with couples, I did

(23:46):
it with myself and my partnerand our values just like
weren't.
On target with each other.
They just, I didn't care abouthis values and, and while mine
were important to him, it was,it took a lot for me to have to
reorganize my language so thatit spoke to his values so that I

(24:06):
was communicating with him.
You know, it wasn't secondnature, it wasn't easy.

Leah (24:11):
And I found in my relationships that when I looked
at every breakup I ever had, itcame down to a value that we
just couldn't get past.
And in the beginning of fallingin love, you're just falling in
love.
You're, you're concentrating andfocusing on all the things that
are going great, and you'reusing the things that are going

(24:32):
great to affirm what a greatmatch you are.
And you're kind of ignoring someof the areas that you're seeing
as like, oh, well, I mean, yeah,you wanna be polyamorous, but I
really wanna be monogamous, butI, we can work on this.
Or, or, you know, you, youaren't close to your family, but

(24:52):
I'm really close to my family.
I love family and I wanna beconnected to a partner's family
so that I can be, have even morefamily because I really love
family.
You know, I remember a great guyI dated, man, was he in love
with me?
Ugh.
And he was a great lover and wehad lots of things in common.
But back to you or you desire tohave someone who's really smart.

(25:15):
He wasn't connected to personalgrowth.
And my whole life was aboutgoing to workshops and bettering
myself.
And I realized when I was datingagain, like, if you don't pursue
personal growth out of your ownfree agency, regardless of my
influence, I'm not your girl.
Like, I need you to be motivatedand to take action and being the
best that you can be without myinfluence because that's a value

(25:38):
of yours.
And that when I realized thatabout myself, it jumped really
high on my priority list of whatI was looking for in a partner.
So all that to say we totallyagree with you, that examining
values and, and having reallyrich, yummy conversations with
someone you're dating about whattheir values are can be really
fun.

(25:59):
And I have to add that I datedsomeone and we really were a
mismatch in like one or twocategories, but we were really
well aligned in all the others.
And I chose not to ignore theplaces where we were a mismatch.
And then I changed the intentionof that relationship that this
was someone who was a greatperson to hang out with.

(26:19):
He could be a really greatfriend, we could have great sex,
but he wasn't my beloved.
And so I allowed myself toreally enjoy dating someone who
I really trusted while alsolooking out for the beloved.
And so we both had thatagreement that we were gonna be
each other's, you know, I don'twanna say fuck buddies, but
basically fuck buddies.

(26:40):
And while we were pursuing,looking for the beloved, that
was a better match with ourvalues and that really worked
for us.
Like that turned out to be agreat strategy.
I have to say.
He helped me pull in thebeloved.

Meirav (26:51):
And, and I think exactly.
And I think a lot of people gointo dates, and that's another
thing that I wanna say that howmarketing has to do with, with
dating apps, it's like sometimesyou have to try more than once
to get to the right client andyou know, like to hit that mark
and have like that bestcampaign.
And you need to learn so manythings in order to get to that

(27:15):
point.
And you are not the only onewho's teaching the lesson or
learning a lesson, meaning youhave both sides.
And one of the things that Ithink that I went into dating is
that I don't need every date tobe the one.
I want to learn how I'm gettingto the one.

(27:37):
And sometimes I was the lessonto the guy that I was dating.
He didn't teach me anything, butI taught him something.
Like, there was this guy, myfirst, first date, he was a high
tech guy, turned poet, turnedphotographer.
Okay.
And, and that was really cool.

(27:58):
And I remember on our firstdate, which I was so excited, I
was really excited about, it'slike I hit on him on Facebook
even before I even went ondating apps because I was still
like too frightened to do.
And like, I hit on him onFacebook on a very like, cool
way.
And, and he, he, he, like, onour first day we like set up

(28:20):
like a casual one because again,still COVID, but sometimes it
was open, sometimes it wasclosed.
And then he tells me he's comingwith like a baggy pan, like a
Indian baggy pants.
We have a word for it in Hebrew.
And then I said, I'm not, I'mcoming with a dress.
I don't understand like, what'sgoing on.
Like I'm going on a date.
And then we get to the date he's46.

(28:41):
Divorce, no kids.
And I remember I have likereally great social skills,
especially in my type of work.
And I remember talking about mykids the whole entire time.
Something in my intuition toldme this guy needs to be a dad.
Definitely not for me'cause I'mnot having anymore kids.
I have three that did not thankyou very much and I don't want

(29:03):
anymore.
I don't want another baby daddy.
And so definitely thought thathe was supposed to be, and one
of the other things is that, heis now.
And I remember he's saying tome, and we kept on that Facebook
friendship even if we weren'tfor each other, but we
definitely gave I think, eachother strength.

(29:25):
And he is married, he is child.
I think he is one.
She's one and a half.
We, I like now like all of hiswife's posts with them because
I'm so excited for them and Ireally think, and he really has
re like, told me that I wasdefinitely right.
I was definitely right after,before when he found, when he

(29:49):
was looking, when he wasn't likehe's a, he's a great spiritual
guide today, which is crazy.
And I really feel like sometimeswe are not learning as we are
teaching.

Leah (30:00):
Yeah, I think that's a really important distinction to
make so that people rememberthat there's a lot of purpose to
this other than just meeting thebeloved.
That it's all a journey and thateveryone you date is your
teacher, and when you come, comefrom a place of showing up in
someone's life where you willleave them better than you find
them.
You give each other these littlegifts.
They don't have to be thebeloved, but they're preparing

(30:22):
you for the beloved.
So be there with your respectand your reverence.
Don't look at it as a waste oftime.
Look at it as a a lifemasterclass, drawing you

Willow (30:35):
I like.
I like that, um, like thatperspective too of like, you
know, I might not have learned alesson per se from that person,
but they learned something fromme.
And that is really the, the, thetrust in the universe and the,
and the reciprocity of, of thebigger picture.
Like it's not always like I'mgonna get from this person'cause

(30:55):
I give to that person, butrather just to be more generous.
Right?
There is again, just to be moregenerous with yourself and with
your truth and what you know andwhat you value and sharing.
'Cause I feel like even.
Why?
I mean, pre COVID, post COVID,whatever, people are really
guarded.
They have been really guardedfor a long time.

(31:16):
I'm actually learning a wholenew movement practice right now,
which is opening up tissues inmy body, which have been showing
me wow, how guarded my body hasbeen.
And no one would really call mea guarded person.
I'm a pretty open book, youknow.
But we all hold such deepprotection in our bodies,
especially in our bellies andour solar plexus and our heart,

(31:40):
and these

Leah (31:41):
Or vulnerable

Willow (31:42):
front chakra areas, you know?
And it's like when we, when wecan just be like, instead of
also putting on a, like apretense, like, I have to
impress this person, or I haveto be something other than what
I am.
But actually just showing up inyour full authenticity, you
know, it's such a gift.
It's such a gift in somecapacity that you may not even

(32:03):
ever realize what that is.

Meirav (32:06):
I have started to learn Kabbalah from David Guam, if
you've know, like he's allaround now.
Very, very like going on all thelike very famous podcasts.
He has one lesson which I tookand resonated with me because
you could call it karma, butit's a different form of what he
stated.

(32:27):
He says, what energy you bringin is the energy that you
receive, and it's not in the waythat we are nor like used to.
More so like if you bring inenergy of flirting, I would say,
into a non-relevantconversation, meaning you're

(32:49):
flirting with the wrong, withthe wrong person.
You have a girlfriend back home,then you're gonna fight with
that girlfriend, whatever youdo, because the energy that you
have brought into thisrelationship.
Is that kind, that will get youthat struggle.
So as soon as you bring in, likeyou said, um, an energy of like,

(33:11):
hi, I'm here for either to learnor to give, we don't know yet.
And like, if I could be ofassistance, then great.
If you could be of assistance,yay.
Great.
If we could fall in love, thatwould be fantastic.
But like most of the time itreally is.
I think people are so into theexpectations of something that

(33:33):
they, again, don't see thevalue.
That's not your person.
You did not, that was not on thelist.
Like where are you going?

Leah (33:43):
Now I'm curious, did you ever have like a really
discouraged moment in thisprocess of 60 dates where you
were just like, let down by theexperience, or you felt a
feeling of like home, likehopelessness or, I wanna give up
because so many people I knowwho wrestle with, uh, dating
life, especially online datingthe dating apps is, it's fun for

(34:05):
a little while and then they hitthis like exhausted point where
they're just like, fuck, there'sno one out there.
You know?
And their attitude sours, andthen it's like they gotta dig in
deep to try to find the energyto keep going.
Did you ever have a moment likethat?

Meirav (34:21):
So I love that question because the truth is no.

Leah (34:26):
Mm-hmm.

Meirav (34:27):
I've had times that I needed to rest, okay, that I
needed to not go to the appsthis week, have something else
that I could do, just be like inmy silence, maybe just like tune
into me and like not go on apps.
I never, ever thought to myselfthat I am going to be

(34:48):
discouraged.
And one of the things that Itell so many of my, I would say
older single friends, which arelike 42, 40, 39, 45, that really
wanna find a mate, but have notyet.
And I asked them one reallysimple question, do you have a
degree?

(35:08):
And most of my friends do.
And even if they don't, theyhave learned or studied
something for a very long time.
How long did that degree takeyou to to get?
Usually they say three to fouryears.
And I said, what did you have todo in order to get that degree?
And they said, I had to go toschool for five to eight hours.
I said, every day, five days aweek.

(35:30):
And I said, did you have anyhomework?
And they said, of course.
Did you have any projects?
Of course.
Did you have any tests?
Did you need to learn more forthose tests?
So just wait one second.
I have to ask you a question.
So I took you.
I don't know, approximately 300,500 hours approximately to like
get a degree

Leah (35:50):
Get good at something.

Meirav (35:52):
and you wanna find love in five dates or less.
And then you're discouraged.
And most are like that.
So not even the five, it couldbe the 10.
And then they get, and then theydon't do it anymore.
And one of the things that Iremember about me is saying, no,
I'm gonna find my love.
Like that's not an issue that Ihave.

(36:13):
The gold, you remember, we, wetalked about

Willow (36:15):
got the plan, the business plan.
Yeah.
Well, and that's probably whyyou were not easily discouraged
as well, because you knew whatyou were doing.
Right.
You had a plan that you wereexecuting and you were going
through it.
So I'm curious how you, um, howyou guide others through what
you learned.
You know, what's, what's your,um, what's your path to success

(36:41):
for those who didn't studymarketing and business and, and
know that what KPI is and how toapply it to a

Leah (36:47):
Yeah.
What is KPI?

Meirav (36:49):
Okay, so I have like a KPI and I have a dating KPI.
So KPI is a key performanceindicator, meaning how do we
know if we succeed, right?
So key performance indicator,meaning we need to choose one
key, one type of, um, you know,how to measure a performance.
Meaning how do we know that wegrow?

(37:09):
How do we know that we're notdoing very well?
And that's a key performanceindicator to see if it goes up
or if it goes down.
I have a key partner indicator.

Willow (37:19):
Ah, I like that.

Meirav (37:20):
Ah,

Willow (37:20):
very cute,

Meirav (37:22):
yeah, it's very cute.
And um, that means like, how doyou know you're on the right
path to the right one?
So, like I said, usually it'slike writing a business plan.
I do have obviously, um, uh, asmall kind of PDF that I do,
like a five step on how Iactually planned out my plan.

(37:44):
And it has all kind of marketingtools, but for your dating apps,
or not even dating apps.

Willow (37:50):
Could even be a good way to learn marketing through a
more fun avenue.
Right.

Meirav (37:57):
I don't know, I love marketing, so I think it's
always fun, but I guess maybenot for everybody,

Leah (38:02):
Not everybody loves marketing.
Some people have a real haterelationship with marketing.

Meirav (38:08):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
See, some people have a reallyhate relationship with apps like
the dating apps or dating ingeneral.
Exactly.
And.
We need to get over that hump.
I think through, and the waythat I probably go through
everything is like, I have anExcel sheet or like a task list

(38:30):
or a plan, and I always do think20 steps like before.
And that's

Willow (38:37):
20 steps ahead,

Meirav (38:39):
strategy.
Yeah,

Willow (38:40):
like, so, so you, you do like.
Reverse engineering.
Like, here's my goal, this iswhat I want, what do I need by
this point?
What do I need?
By this point?
Working your way from that goalbackward to where you are now,
so that you can get from A to B,um, in a

Meirav (38:54):
what did I learn?
What did I learn from thisperson?
Do I like that he's, I, I likethat he's, he's funny.
I didn't like that.
He doesn't give me compliments.
I love compliments.
I want more compliments that Iguess not, that's not what I
like.
Check putting more on the listof, I need someone who really

(39:15):
wants to give compliments.
Okay.
Or who really like.
It is crazy

Leah (39:20):
It's very generous with compliments.
Yes.

Meirav (39:23):
is very generous with compliments.
Yeah, exactly.

Leah (39:27):
That mean, um, that you wouldn't go on a second date?
Or let's say you've already beenon three dates and now you know
this about this person, or sixdates, whatever the amount of
dates, at what point do you go,Hmm, that's missing.
So next, do you use that tocalibrate moving on to the next

(39:47):
person?

Meirav (39:48):
so mostly I think I did eliminate a lot of people due to
bad sex.

Leah (39:54):
Bad

Meirav (39:54):
Really, truly bad.

Willow (39:56):
we're in support of that elimination plan.

Meirav (40:00):
Yeah.

Leah (40:00):
I, I, actually, I'm kind of like, well, that's something
I can teach you.
Lemme

Meirav (40:05):
ah.

Leah (40:06):
be generous with my skills here and teach you for

Meirav (40:09):
That's true.
Yeah.
'cause you have the patience.
I did not have the patience toteach anyone that anymore.
Anymore.

Leah (40:18):
And I, and that's a, that, that's kind of a kink of mine.
So that is, no, that's a joy.
It's not a hardship for thisgirl,

Meirav (40:25):
for you,

Leah (40:25):
not for everybody.

Meirav (40:27):
not for everybody.
Exactly.
Like marketing for

Leah (40:30):
of many friends who would put up with that.

Meirav (40:34):
Yeah.
So a lot of people really,really went that way.
Like I, I'm, I'm sorry, I don'twanna deal with that on my
second time around.
And don't forget, I was on mysecond time around.
I really didn't need anyone'sfinancial help.
I didn't really need anyone'schildren or having children.
So I was really like, I justwant love.

(40:54):
I just want someone to be apartner and just someone to talk
to and someone to have fun with.
And believe it or not, alsobeing a successful, I would say
more well off woman.
Was something that scared manymen.
And I was, she, I was shockedactually from that because the

(41:14):
last time I was single I was abarista.
And so like, Hmm.
I didn't, I, like, I was marriedfor like 15 years, so the last
time I met my ex-husband was, hewas a client.
The coffee shop I worked at abarista at during school.
So like that was insane.
That.

Leah (41:32):
You bring up an interesting point with this
because I've been working withsome men who are divorcing for
the first time.
They met this person in theirlate twenties, early thirties.
They're now in their lateforties, early fifties.
They've been married for 20years.
They're kind of going, how do Ido this?
Like who I was when I met mywife was a very different

(41:54):
physical body, differentemotional maturity level, like
different my, my sex also workeddifferently.
And so here I am, I've been inthis other relationship.
The passion has dwindled as ittends to do in long-term
relationships.
I am not even sure I know how tobe a stud.
You know, like you have acertain amount of arrogance in
your twenties and thirties, andnow I'm coming into the dating

(42:16):
world.
Again, a little confused aboutwho I am.
So I'm curious because I'm sureyou're encountering people as
they're following your plan whoare trying to sort that out too.
Who am I now?
You are a barista, now you'relike this successful marketing,
uh, business owner, CEO.

(42:36):
So how did you translate?
Were there any parallels?
Anything you wanna add aboutthat?

Meirav (42:41):
Um, so I do, like I said, it was really mostly due
to my list and obviously havingto ask for someone who can also
enjoy the same lifestyle as me,and I think that was an
important portion of it becauseI did actually date someone who
is super sweet.

(43:02):
Um, right before I actuallydated my now husband and like
the 60th date, and I rememberhim being so sweet, but like I
was living one lifestyle and Iactually could not feel good
about the fact that he wouldwanna pay for certain things,
seeing how his lifestyle was.
And I didn't, I didn't evenwant, like, he was super sweet.

(43:25):
He was super kind, such agentleman, actually like
educated and lived in otherplaces in the world, which was
important to me.
And, and I understand why thereis a hesitance because again, I
think it's the values again,just because if I worked so hard
on my lifestyle, why, why do Ineed to dim my own light?

(43:49):
And,

Willow (43:50):
that his could shine brighter or he could take care

Leah (43:52):
Yeah.
Or that whole provider thing

Willow (43:55):
Well, and it probably also brought up for you, I would
imagine Meirav like the, thefirst husband, the first
relationship that had some, uh,financial control, right?
And was also like abusive withthat control.
So, um, I think it's importantto remember like maybe if you
hadn't come from that experienceearly on, you might've had a

(44:17):
different, like, relationshipwith his generosity.
You know, it might've been, um,a different experience for you.
So it.
It's, I'm curious, like inthese, in these 60 dates, were
you, did it feel like you werelike, okay,'cause it sounds like
this guy right before the, theone right.
He was a good, I always like tosay every person we encounter,

(44:37):
especially in intimacy, is astepping stone to a higher
version of ourselves, right?
Because that's what we're doingin relationship.
We're looking in a mirror.
We're seeing ourselves moreclearly through that other
person.
And with these dates, did youfeel like on these stepping
stones, that you were steppinghigher and getting closer like
each time?
Or would you have a really goodone and then a few bad ones?

(44:59):
I mean, what was the dance.

Meirav (45:00):
So the truth is I really did, like, I had a couple of,
um, you know, like, I think theonly time I was really upset, it
was like after probably threedifferent really cute guys and
bad, bad sex.
And then finally having to findsomeone who's super cute.
I actually knew from my past,which was again, someone s like

(45:22):
it was, it was, it was meant tobe for, I don't think he even
knows that, but it was meant tobe.
I think you have to make surethat you check the mark about
are you getting more in tunewith you?
Exactly what you said.
If you are feeling more you,which is difficult by the way,

(45:43):
because I so was not, if youwould have known me seven years
ago, I don't think you would bespeaking to the same person.
Although I still had thatmarketing office and everything,
I, I was so not in tune to mywants, my needs, anything.
It was like, eat, pray, love.
What egg do I want?

(46:04):
In the morning?
I did.
It was like, so like, let's findyou.
And I think that's how long ittook me to find me.
60 dates.
That's a long

Leah (46:15):
interesting.
Yeah.

Willow (46:16):
that long.
It's really not mean, Meirav.
That's, I know

Meirav (46:19):
For a seven month period

Willow (46:22):
I know people who have been doing it for years and
they're like, yeah, I'm learningso much about myself through,
through the dating apps andthrough the dating world, and,
um, but they have not been doingit, looking at their KPIs.
So I think

Meirav (46:36):
Exa and, and I think that's, that's exactly what I
think, you know, like theydidn't come off with a bus.
And some people, by the way,it's like I've been asked some
people come into Tinder or likeall the dating just for sex, and
that's totally fine if that'swhat you're going there for, if
that's what you're dating for,that's totally fine.

(46:58):
If their values are aligned withpeople that they're dating.
Okay, so don't like, I hate, butif that's not the case, then you
definitely have to have like aplan.
Okay.
You definitely have to have aplan because otherwise you could
like go all over.

Leah (47:13):
One thing I thought was interesting is your use of AB
testing as a dating strategy.
So for those

Willow (47:19):
us about

Leah (47:20):
who don't know what that is, a, maybe you could describe
what AB testing is for thosethat aren't running businesses
that have to do marketingstrategies so that we can
understand how you took that andused it in the dating world,
because this might be somethingpeople haven't tried

Meirav (47:35):
Yeah, so what AB testing is, is trying out two different
products, sorry, the sameproducts with two different
types of how they showcase thatproduct.
So sometimes you'll see an ad ora campaign with, um, or an
email, um, with one type ofwording or image, and then

(47:59):
you'll see the same product, butin a different type of color or
a different type of kind ofwording to it.
And what marketing people do isthat they wanna see what works
better.
So the same thing works here.
I thought to myself, okay, if Iput on, I don't know, like
tights and like have a moresleazy photo, right?

(48:22):
Who am I attracting if

Leah (48:24):
clicks on my profile?
Yeah,

Willow (48:26):
Let's call it sexy, not sleazy.

Meirav (48:30):
Okay.
But it could also be sleazy, ifthat's what I'm looking for.
You know what I mean?
So like, yeah, no, like, butlike, but also have like a sexy
photo or also like be more, Iwould say like dressed up to
like make sure that you want toattract certain people.
For me, I think I wantedsomeone, um, to really fall in

(48:53):
love with my face because I wasvery self-confident in other
places.
And that's kind of what Ishowcased.
But also thinking of withPhotoshop, no Photoshop and kind
of do like an AB testing, whatwould be the first picture, who
clicked on it?
And also one of the other thingsthat I did was kind of ab test,
different types of apps.

(49:13):
Where do I feel morecomfortable?
Um, actually my husband I foundon Bumble.
What I found was really great onBumble that I felt more safe as
to choosing the men, and onlyafter I choose the men can they
choose me, which I felt reallycomfortable about.
And so that's also AB testing.
Where do you find the betterkind of guys that fit your

(49:37):
needs?
One other thing is answering allthe questions, so see how you
answer the questions because Ilove the questions.
I think a lot of people likeunderestimate the questions that
they have on dating apps,

Willow (49:51):
Tell us what you're talking about.
I'm not familiar with datingapps at all.
So what

Meirav (49:55):
okay, so on the dating app you have your bio section
and then there's this place thatno one actually, I don't think
that it has to do anything withthe fact that you don't know
dating apps.
Most of the people don't even,are not aware, they

Leah (50:12):
isn't it like questions like, what are your hobbies?
What, how do you like to spendyour time?
Is it stuff like that?

Meirav (50:17):
What are you really good at?
So I said, I order the bestdishes on the menu.
So that's kind of like, what areyou, like, what are you very
special at?
Or stuff like that.
And I feel like if someoneactually reads through those
questions, um, and that'sanother thing that I have to say
about my husband when going toour first date, he came to pick

(50:42):
me up and all of a sudden I hearall my favorite songs and I'm
like, what the fuck?

Leah (50:50):
Hmm.

Meirav (50:50):
going on

Willow (50:51):
a playlist of your favorite songs?

Meirav (50:54):
I posted my Spotify on the dating app, so he took the
whole list, put it in theplaylist, and I get in the car.
It could be like, and, andthat's what I hear.
And that's like the, it's likelooking into your profile.
A person who Tao.

Willow (51:15):
Yeah.

Leah (51:16):
are you.
I love that you lit.
You put your playlist.
You are giving people keys tohow to love you.
You are giving people access tohow to impress you, delight you,
and sweep you off your feet.
ding, ding.

Willow (51:30):
most excited I've ever been about potentially getting
on a dating app ever.
Thank you, merah.

Leah (51:35):
right?

Willow (51:37):
Well, when you think about it from like a, it's like
a game, like marketing is agame, right?
It's like, how do we fit thispuzzle piece into this puzzle?
You know, where, where do thingsfit together?
And I am not great at it, but,um, you know, I if you, if you
kind of play, play dating appsas like, this is a big, this is
a business plan, okay, it's agame, it's a puzzle.

(51:58):
How, how does it all work?
How does it fit together for me?
Yeah.
So now do you have, um, do youhave, you said you have a PDF
where you kind of, uh, showpeople how to, I guess, come up
with their initial kind of bio.
What, what's your, what's yourplan for pe women who come to
you?
Let's say I come to you and I'mlike, help me out.

(52:19):
You know, what is the, what'sthe game plan?

Meirav (52:23):
So I actually, I, I am working on the 60 Dates to Love
book.
Right now

Willow (52:32):
68 dates or

Meirav (52:34):
no, 60, 60 Dates to love, 60 dates, that's enough.
I think we don't need

Willow (52:39):
don't need eight.

Meirav (52:41):
We don't need another 8.
No, I, I think I'm done.
Um, for now it is for the secondtime round.
Um, and I'm writing a book onthat.
And I wanted to give women kindof, uh, uh, my playbook on how
to write their plan, how tostart the bio, what are the
things that need to check inwith themselves in order to

(53:03):
give.
I think, the most authenticanswers to themselves.
And also understanding that thedating app is for you.
I have this mantra, what isyours, is yours.
And I feel like that's how Ilive my life, by the way, in
work and in dating.

(53:23):
If he's not interested in me,he's not for me.
If he is interested in me andpays attention to the things
that I like, that I want, thenhe's probably like in the
proximity for me.
And I think a lot of people, andthat's one of the most important
things that I, I think, thatmaybe would re resonate with

(53:43):
most and something that I had tolearn.
And it took me forever to learnthis because I did not grow up
like this.
It was the receiving portion ofit.
A lot of people can love you.
It doesn't mean that you will beable to know how to receive
their love.

Willow (54:01):
It's a huge one.
We preach and teach that shitall the time.

Leah (54:05):
Yeah.
Learn how to be a masterfulreceiver.
That is

Meirav (54:07):
Too bad I didn't meet you earlier because it took me
like forever to learn thislesson.
Okay?
Forever.
To learn this lesson.
It really was.
I remember learning how to give,but I, I really, it took me so
many years to learn how toreceive and, and even with Tomo,
my husband right now, I think ittook me two and a half years

(54:29):
into our relationship because Iwas so, uh, emotionally, I think
hurt from so many years from mychildhood, from my ex-husband.
And, and it was just one nightthat we did sleep together,
meaning even together, becausewe moved in, I think three and a
half years in.

(54:49):
Our relationship, even after wegot engaged, this was, and I
remember having a phone callconversation before going to
bed.
And so we've been two and a halfyears together, we still have so
much to talk about.
No sex involved, no intimacyinvolved, and just like talking
and I say something that I wasso like me, I don't know, it was
like stupid, quirky, whatever itwas.

(55:11):
I don't even remember what itwas.
And I just remember him saying,oh my God, I love you so much.
Just of that like stupid mething that I said.
And I think that was the momentthat I actually fully was able
to receive his love.
It was

Leah (55:27):
Hmm.

Meirav (55:28):
it was like a breakthrough

Willow (55:29):
Mm

Meirav (55:30):
of, of like the receiving portion of, oh my God,
that's unconditional love.
And so sometimes it hits you inthe face, but you don't see it.

Leah (55:42):
Mm-hmm.

Meirav (55:43):
But you also have to be very aware of that.
You have to be like extremelyaware of the fact that maybe
someone does love you.
Maybe they're the ones on thatlist, maybe they're the ones on
that plan.
Do you know how to receive hislove?
So that's another, I would sayjust like a, something super
important that I just wanted tosay

Willow (56:03):
I, I always like.
to say that receptivity is thefeminines greatest superpower,
and we just don't live in afeminine dominant reality.
We live in a very masculine,dominant reality.
And so that, that superpower ofbeing able to receive, it's
really steeped in self-worth,you know?
And so it sounds like, and thisis one of the beautiful things

(56:24):
about relationship, is you getthis mirror to look into, oh my
God, I am actually worthy ofthat.
Can I receive that level oflove?
And that, that, that, that'sthis amazing man would like,
love this stupid, quirky thingthat I say, you know, like, and,
and find so much joy in that is,um, yeah.
It's, that's, that's the goal,right?

(56:46):
That's

Leah (56:46):
It's like being really seen.
I think that that's when thosebreakthroughs in like, wow, I
must really be lovable becausethis person is like gushing on
me and I'm in this, like, thisother part of myself that I
don't think of as maybe lovableor charming or but, but it
really is me.
Like it's the unfiltered me andsomehow they're able to reflect

(57:08):
back to us.
I like the unfiltered you.
I like the one that's so realright now and is unguarded and
is showing themselves, and Ithink that requires, in order to
receive love, you have to bevulnerable enough to let the
love in because the two go handin hand.
It's hard to, uh, it's thehardest, I should say, the

(57:31):
hardest thing to receive is toget that love when you are the
most vulnerable and you are themost unfiltered, and suddenly
that is obvious to you.
And it's like, oh, holy shit.
It's like, it's those, um, thosebig moments in life.
Those are real reflection, uh,not reflection.

(57:51):
It's, um,

Willow (57:53):
Inflection.

Leah (57:54):
inflection.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Inflection points where it'slike something lands and it
changes you forever.
So thanks for sharing that withus.
I'm curious, who do you workwith or do you work with men?
Do you work just with women

Meirav (58:09):
So

Leah (58:10):
their dating a better dating experience.

Meirav (58:12):
so usually women, although like, yeah, although
all my tips and I would say mybook would be very well.
Yeah, to men.
I think they should do the samethings.
I think they should get betterpictures.
I think they should do betterbios.
I think that women pay attentionmore than men usually.
So if you are a man that wants abetter woman, that's what you

(58:36):
should do.
Um,

Leah (58:37):
And statistically women are more successful than men on
these dating apps.
So women are doing somethingdifferent.
They held more power aroundwe're really whether men have
sex or not.
So it's like this real key.
They're saying that like there's80% of men who are missing out
and uh, in the dating world.

(59:00):
And so it seems like the peoplewho need it the most are
actually men who need thiscoaching from you.

Meirav (59:06):
but also like really it's marketing 1 0 1.
Seriously, think about it.
If you're a, if you have a

Willow (59:12):
think, go ahead.

Meirav (59:15):
If you have a business, like if you're a man and you
have a business, just think howyou would implement any strategy
of your business to your datingapp.
Seriously, that's all I would

Leah (59:27):
Well, I don't know if the guys who own companies and are
running businesses are the oneswho are struggling in the dating
world.
I think it's all the guys thatmaybe aren't, who don't have an

Willow (59:36):
all kinds of guys from all walks of life are struggling
in the dating world.

Meirav (59:41):
Yeah, same, same.
I'm telling you, I have, I havedated CFOs, I have dated biotech
company owners.
I have da like serious and, andthat was my experience, by the
way, because I filtered sowisely because I had a plan.
I really like I hear so, andlike I had so much outside noise

(01:00:04):
saying our divorcees are like,oh my God.
It's like all the junk.
All the trash.
I hear that on the Drew BarryMirror Shore Barry.
Drew Barry.
Yeah.
Show

Leah (01:00:16):
Yeah.

Meirav (01:00:16):
She says like, what's a dating app?
Dating app is where all thetrash end up to.
And I think to myself, I gotmarried via dating app.
My brother got married viadating

Leah (01:00:27):
so many people I

Meirav (01:00:28):
many people that I know that got married on a dating
app.
So maybe you are doing somethingthat isn't right on that dating
app by filtering the wrong typesof people.
So maybe you don't have a planbecause you can't blame the app.
If there's so much successstories and some little
unsuccessful stories, maybe youshould check out why you're not

(01:00:49):
succeeding.
AB testing, for instance, wouldbe helpful in this situation.

Leah (01:00:55):
Very good.

Meirav (01:00:56):
Yeah.

Willow (01:00:56):
Okay, so you've got a really cool free gift for our
audience called Date like a CEO,a 5 Step Playbook to Love with
Strategy.
And we'll put a link for that inthe show notes and tell us how
else our audience can find you.
Are you speaking regularly?
Um, are, I know you have awebsite, but let, how can we,

(01:01:19):
how can our audience reallyutilize this incredible, uh,
wealth of wisdom that you'veuncovered?
I.

Meirav (01:01:27):
I am going to, like, I obviously have my PS Interactive
agency, which is my marketingagency.
Um, you can always find methere.
You can find me on my Instagram,@MeiravRosenberg, and that would
be probably where I place mostof my content.
But I also updated a new one,um, on my writing the book

(01:01:49):
journey that I've just started.
Uh, and I guess that's where youwill be finding me more and more
speaking, more and more aboutwhat are the things that I am or
I did or what I am doing, oreven in the relationship itself
that, um, took me to where Iwanted to be.
And I think that's best to findme there and hopefully, uh, you

(01:02:14):
know, it will get bigger andbigger and, and more people
would wanna know, I think how tobe more resilient.
And I feel like I have so manyfriends that have already heard
me speak at one point oranother.
And I remember a colleague ofmine that have like, that she
was following me for a very longtime, saying, oh my God, I'm

(01:02:34):
only on date 33, but you did 60.
So I'm good, I'm good.
I could go more.
I could go, if you did 60, Icould do 60.
And I hope it doesn't get there,but I'm only at 33 and I'm keep
going.
And so hopefully I give peopleas much strength as possible and
even if you have been on morethan 60 dates, maybe you should

(01:02:57):
just make yourself a little bitmore accurate and to the point
and on plan.
And then obviously download thePDF.
That will be on the Instagram aswell, and I hope it gives you
more options.

Willow (01:03:11):
Yay.
I love it.

Leah (01:03:13):
Thank you so much.
Really

Willow (01:03:15):
Let us know when the book is ready, published, and
good to go.
We'll have you back on the show.

Meirav (01:03:20):
Thank you so much for having me.
I had like the best time.

Willow (01:03:24):
Yay.

Leah (01:03:25):
All right.
Well.

Meirav (01:03:26):
really did.

Leah (01:03:28):
We so appreciate you.
Up next.
Everyone is the dish with Dr.
Willow and myself, so don't goanywhere.

Announcer (01:03:36):
Now our favorite part, the dish.

Willow (01:03:39):
Hey, let's dish it up on Meirav Rosenberg, it's so fun
that we had this interview todaybecause, um, I, I was literally
just thinking about her and Ihaven't met her yet.
I've just heard about herthrough, uh, my coach, my
Israeli coach, Ziv, and, um andI was like, I wonder what you

(01:04:01):
know, did she ever getscheduled?
I had just been thinking aboutit like a day or two ago,'cause
I was like, I don't know.
I think about getting on datingapps.
That's as far as I go.
Usually I just think about itfor like a hot second and then
I'm like, I don't have anyfucking time to get on a dating
app.

Leah (01:04:19):
You should do it because I think it'd be a really fun
adventure that we could talkabout on the show.

Willow (01:04:23):
I know.
I know you do.
I know you think that.

Leah (01:04:26):
Come on.

Willow (01:04:27):
Do it for the audience.
All right, I'll get there.
I got, I gotta clean up a fewmillion other projects first.

Leah (01:04:33):
Let us look vicariously

Willow (01:04:35):
Okay.
Well, you do, you do?

Leah (01:04:37):
And I think it'd be fun.
I think it'd be interesting, youknow, we've had how many dating
experts on the show?

Willow (01:04:42):
I don't know.
It's a good question.

Leah (01:04:46):
And um, Jennifer was one.
She was really an expert inhelping people who are doing the
poly open relationship thing.

Willow (01:04:54):
Mm-hmm.

Leah (01:04:55):
She introduced us to the app Field.
Um, then we had another one,I'll put it in the show notes.
Her name isn't popping, but shehad a lot of great dating
strategies for online dating.
She spoke quite a bit about.
Paying attention to the profilein an interesting way, and I
really loved what Meirav had tosay around AB testing.
Never heard of that

Willow (01:05:15):
Yeah, I know.

Leah (01:05:16):
I think, yeah, take, think about, okay, here's some
conservative pictures, here'ssome more risque pictures.

Willow (01:05:22):
Who are you pulling in with the different pictures?
Do you like these people?
Yeah.

Leah (01:05:27):
Does it align?
You know, maybe you want a

Willow (01:05:30):
Yeah.

Leah (01:05:30):
energy in your,

Willow (01:05:32):
Relationship?
Yeah.

Leah (01:05:35):
someone who's more serious and who's looking for other
things other than just sex.
I mean, who knows, right?
But

Willow (01:05:39):
Yeah.

Leah (01:05:40):
Interesting way to coach yourself into exploring and
finding the right match.
The

Willow (01:05:46):
I feel like what I'm gonna find on the dating apps is
probably one of my resistancesto it, is a lot of clients, a
lot of potential clients, and,um,

Leah (01:05:56):
having Devah on and

Willow (01:05:59):
he's all about, he gets clients that way.
Mm-hmm.

Leah (01:06:02):
on dating apps.
I just don't have the patienceto do that kind of screening

Willow (01:06:06):
I don't either.
I mean, that's, that's, it'sjust another project, you know,
it feels like, Ooh, I don'tknow.
But it could be fun.
It could be fun.
I will, I promise I will get ona dating app at some point,
unless my, my true beloved justshows falls out of the tree the
next time I walk down thestreet.
But I, for, for you all, I willdo it.

Leah (01:06:24):
You know, I was on a dating app for about half a
minute in between partners

Willow (01:06:28):
Yeah.

Leah (01:06:30):
ended up just going to, this isn't for me mainly'cause I
didn't know how to make sense ofmy career.

Willow (01:06:35):
Yeah, yeah,

Leah (01:06:35):
I don't want people to date me because they're curious
about Tantra and I don't want totreat my career as something
that I'm hiding.
And I

Willow (01:06:43):
yeah.
There's a lot of that.
Yeah, totally.

Leah (01:06:47):
Because if someone is gonna have issues with what I do
for a living, don't waste mytime.

Willow (01:06:50):
Exactly.
Yeah.

Leah (01:06:52):
So all of that is,

Willow (01:06:53):
Tricky.
Tricky.
When you're a Tantra teacher, anexpert guide.

Leah (01:06:58):
Right.
But if I had to do it again, I,she's really bringing a lot of
creativity to the table.
I loved

Willow (01:07:03):
Yeah.

Leah (01:07:03):
that she put her Spotify playlist.

Willow (01:07:05):
Yeah.

Leah (01:07:05):
I love that she was like, I know how to order the best
thing on the menu.
I would value that in a partner.

Willow (01:07:10):
You sure would.
You sure would.
I'm gonna put that on my datingapp because I also order the
best thing on the menu everytime.

Leah (01:07:18):
there's no one better to go out to eat with than Charles
Muir who orders everything onthe menu and you get to try it
all, and I love that.
I also

Willow (01:07:26):
Well, if you can stomach everything on the menu, see, for
me, that wouldn't be a joy.
I don't want to eat everythingon the menu.

Leah (01:07:32):
I wanna try everything on the

Willow (01:07:33):
menu, not eat

Leah (01:07:35):
it all.

Willow (01:07:35):
Just

Leah (01:07:36):
the

Willow (01:07:37):
a little taste.
And I always

Leah (01:07:39):
end up ordering something and then prefer what someone
else ordered, and then I justwanna eat off their plate and
ignore mine.
So

Willow (01:07:44):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Leah (01:07:45):
So that would really appeal to me, someone who has
that talent.

Willow (01:07:47):
That's a good talent to have, for sure.

Leah (01:07:50):
You know, one thing for those people who are watching
the episode, uh, you could seejust, she's a gorgeous girl.
But I also notice, which can belike a pet peeve of people, and
they may not realize this, whensomeone isn't looking in the
camera, oftentimes it's becausetheir camera's in one location.
Their screen is in anotherlocation, so they're looking to
the people that they're talkingto on the screen, not realizing

(01:08:13):
that their camera isn't angledright?
So you

Willow (01:08:17):
I wonder how many of our audience members care about this
at all.
Let us know.
'cause I'd be curious.

Leah (01:08:23):
the reason why I mentioned it is because with om, I think
the same thing's happening withOm and then people are like,
well, why isn't he looking atthe screen?
He always looks like he'slooking down.

Willow (01:08:31):
He's looking down at people he is talking to.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Leah (01:08:35):
So I do know it annoys and I just wanna say, don't let it
annoy you.
A simple, it's a simple thing.
And I almost stopped theinterview to have her adjust the
camera because I knew

Willow (01:08:48):
Leah's Leah's are clearly our quality control.

Leah (01:08:51):
I'm aesthetic person.

Willow (01:08:54):
Thank God and thank God for her.
Thank you God for bringing meLeah.

Leah (01:08:58):
My, my brain works in a specific detailed way, and when
things are askew, it'sdistracting.

Willow (01:09:06):
yeah,

Leah (01:09:07):
I was

Willow (01:09:07):
no.

Leah (01:09:08):
the people who I know would be distracted

Willow (01:09:10):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Whatever.
Yeah, so she was great.
She's amazing.
Check her out.
She's got a phenomenal, um, giftfor you all.
I think it's definitely, I'mgonna check it out.
I'm gonna, it's gonna sit on thesideline for a minute or two
while I wrap up other projects,but I do wanna check out her
little freebie and, you know, Ireally like I did get, I did get

(01:09:32):
more excited about like, okay,this is a game.
You know, it's, instead of like,I'm going out dating, because
like anytime you say, oh yeah,dating people are always like,
oh, dating sucks, you know, butit actually, I enjoy it.
I mean, going out, getting toknow people, understanding who
they are, I, I just, I likepeople though, you know?
So.

Leah (01:09:51):
Hopefully if you're dating, you've gotten a
perspective shift from listeningto this episode and maybe you
feel re-inspired to shift yourattitude and to say, yeah, let's
play this game and have a greattime and

Willow (01:10:03):
Absolutely.

Leah (01:10:04):
at it from this.
I'm, I'm.
I'm allowing myself to beinfluenced and to be teachable,
and I am available to give mygifts and improve this person's
life regardless if it goesanywhere, maybe a little piece
of me will be integrated so thatthey can have a better
experience dating someone asthey continue on their journey
towards

Willow (01:10:23):
Ding, ding, ding.
Maybe you just are a gift forthem.
Yeah.
God bless.

Leah (01:10:29):
I know something.
You listeners are a gift to usand we thank you so much for
being here.
Please drop us a comment, hitsubscribe, do the liking, um,
and we will be in touch in thecomments.
Love ya.

Willow (01:10:44):
Ciao.

Announcer (01:10:45):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.

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Meirav Rosenberg: Strategic Dating - Why I Treated Finding Love Like A Business Campaign (And It Worked) | #152

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Meirav Rosenberg: Strategic Dating - Why I Treated Finding Love Like A Business Campaign (And It Worked) | #152