BONUS EPISODE TIME!
This is The Silent Why, a podcast on a mission to open up conversations around grief, to see if hope can be found in 101 different types of loss.
In last week's episode (Loss 53) we spoke to a friend of ours, Laura Burns, about alopecia and coming to terms with the loss of her hair, but she wasn't the only one sat in the podcast studio for that in-person interview.
Quietly perched in the corner was husband, Jonathon (a friend of ours, which is how we met Laura in the first place).
In the episode last week Laura shared about losing her hair at the age of 22 years old through alopecia (in 2011) and the challenges this can raise when dating and choosing what information to tell people and when.
[And you might want to hear that episode before listening to this one, link below].
So, we decided we wanted to chat to Jonathon as well, what's it been like from his side of things, and how has he navigated this with his own health challenges.
Both Laura and Jonathon have had more than their fair share of health conditions. Jonathon was born with renal failure and later had a kidney transplant, and Laura has had brain surgery more than once, so they're not strangers deep, difficult conversations.
In this chat, Jonathon shares his side of the 'wig flying off story', how he's managed his own health challenges, how they communicated about their health when dating, how they've found their way in marriage together, and what part faith has played in that.
How this couple are, and see life, despite all their health challenges, is truly inspiring.
Loss 53/101 Episode (Loss of hair through alopecia): https://www.thesilentwhy.com/podcast/episode/7a41eed1/loss-53101-loss-of-hair-through-alopecia-laura-burns
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Claire (00:02):
Welcome to The Silent Why and to a very special bonus
episode.
Chris (00:06):
As you may know, Claire and I (I'm Chris, by the way),
are on a podcast mission toexplore 101 different types of
loss to see if hope can exist inevery one.
Claire (00:14):
Last week we spoke to Laura Burns about her experience
of being diagnosed with alopeciain her early 20s.
Chris (00:19):
And while we recorded that in person interview, her
husband and our friend Jon, whowe knew even before Laura came
into his life was sat therewatching and listening.
Claire (00:29):
Not in a creepy way! So we thought, why not bring him in
on the conversation and ask himwhat it was like to meet and
date somebody with alopecia.
Plus, we really wanted to hearhis side of the week flying off
story that Laura told us.
Chris (00:41):
If you haven't listened to the last episode, you
probably want to zip back andhear that first, then come with
us as we chat to Jon and Laura.
Claire (00:43):
It's worth noting that this is not a couple that have
just had to deal with alopeciato diagnosis. Laura's had brain
surgery more than once, and Jon,as you're gonna hear about in
this episode, was born withrenal failure and had a kidney
transplant. How they are and howthey just see life, despite
their health challenges is trulyinspiring.
Chris (01:04):
So here we go. bonus episode time. And over to you,
Mr. Burns.
Jonathon (01:11):
Hi, I'm Jonathan, I'm Laura's husband. I live in the
Black Country in the WestMidlands, also.
Chris (01:17):
And this is great to have this conversation with you.
Because in the last episode,this is a bonus addition to
hearing your wife talk about 15years of alopecia. So I guess
just to get us going you werelistening to her talking about
that, obviously not a newsubject for you. So just being
part of that hearing, Lauratalking about it with a
(01:39):
microphone in front of her, whatwas that experience like for you
as her protective husband?
Jonathon (01:43):
Yeah, quite, quite a strange, strange experience? I
would say. Yeah, obviously, I'veheard heard Laura speak to me
quite a number of times abouther experience and journey with
alopecia. And now it's sort ofnot being an easy one. But at
the same time, I find it quitedifficult to imagine her feeling
anxious or sort of worried aboutthose sort of, you know,
(02:05):
insecurities, perhaps because,you know, she's such a positive
person. So So yes, it was it wasquite, it was interesting.
Claire (02:13):
And like Laura said, it's really hard when you're
younger, and something happensphysically, especially to have
that confidence, you'll meetsomebody that will love you,
despite that. So I think you,Jon are one of the things that
every woman hopes is out thereis a man that loves you for who
you are, I love that you guyshave found each other because
you're just the most gorgeouscouple. And even when you're
just talking, Laura's justlooking at you with such love
and smile makes my heart warm.
Anyway, yeah. And you're herewith us. And I'm just we're so
(02:35):
grateful for you know, yourrelationship and what you've
been able to share, because Iknow you've had your health
issues as well. So Laura hasdone the same for you as you
have for her. So tell us a bitabout what it was like I was
gonna say when Laura first toldyou about alopecia but also
about the wigs moment that weheard on the last episode when
it flew off expecting it. Whatwas that, like from your side?
Jonathon (02:55):
Well, obviously, I known about the wig for for
quite a long time at this point.
And I sort of there was varioustimes where we spend together
where I would feel quitefrustrated on her behalf because
I had a feeling that she wasuncomfortable. I obviously
understood, you know, like,wearing a woolly hat all day is
not a comfortable thing. And atsome point you're gonna get he
(03:17):
let alone indoors with a heatingon. And so I was kind of
desperate for her to sort oftake it off and feel comfortable
around me that was sort of my,my first sort of feelings around
it. And this sort of just howthis, it was just a bizarre
thing that happened. I think Iwent to put my arm rounder, you
know, I'm realise how smooth Iam not. And clearly clearly in
(03:37):
doing that, as dislodged theweek, considerably,
considerably. And it's neverhappened since I honestly never
happened before. And as Laurasaid, you know, I've been with
her, when we've been out walkingin quite quite some gales and
things like that they they donot just blow off. They're very
(03:59):
sturdy. So it was a funny thing.
But I remember when it happened,I knew immediately that she'd be
upset. And my sort of searchthoughts were really to try and
reassure her. Because I justrealised, and I didn't really
know what to say, at that pointover then sort of just to say
(04:20):
it's okay, you know, I knowabout this, you know, this is
not a shock to me. And, yeah,this is absolutely fine. You
don't need to worry about it.
And I don't want you to bewearing it in the house and you
know, all day with centralheating on, but it took a little
bit longer before she was ableto sort of do that around me on
a consistent basis. I'm sure shewas sort of checking to see what
(04:40):
my reactions were. But I thinkshe sort of realised that it
really didn't bother me and itdidn't that yeah, that she she
was able to sort of be morecomfortable around me
Chris (04:53):
Rewind to a time where you didn't know her as well as
you did at that point in person.
And Laura mentioned theconversation about are getting
together first of all meetingonline and false advertising. So
on reflection, how do you feellike you handled, you know,
finding out about Laura, all ofLaura in online before meeting
in person? How was thatexperience for you?
Jonathon (05:15):
So I, I've had my own health challenges. Throughout
the entirety of my life, I wasused to those feelings of
insecurity from my own side ofthings and the worries of not
possibly finding someone toaccept you. Essentially, when
when we exchanged numbers aftermeeting online, Laura commented
on what my profile picture was,and long story short, I had a
(05:39):
picture of a supermodel wifeWhatsApp profile picture, well,
false. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly. And, and she, she askedme a question, why have you got
that it's a really strange thingto have. But growing up adult
health difficulties, and I wasobsessed with Superman,
Christopher, even Superman. AndI think it was just because he
(06:00):
was so far removed from sort of,you know, who was what I wanted
to be, I wanted to be Supermanfly around everywhere saving the
world. This is my sort of, hewas my hero when I was a small
child. And sort of at a point inmy life, I had a kidney
transplant, and experienced alot of difficulties after that.
And I remember someone having aconversation with me, who didn't
(06:20):
know that I had this sort ofobsession with Superman, as a
child, who said to me, you know,you can be Superman, you know,
you, you can do what you want,you don't need to worry about
your health and the anxietiesthat you feel you have that
permission, and the bit of abizarre statement, but at the
same time, it was weird, becausethey didn't know about that. And
(06:43):
so I had this WhatsApp picture.
And very early on, I justexplained to her a bit, it led
to a conversation about myhealth. I was I was so worried
about feeling accepted, thatwhen she told me about her
situation, it didn't bother me.
I was quite surprised myselfthat it didn't bother me. I have
(07:04):
to be honest. But you reallydidn't kind of surprise myself
and pleasantly,
Chris (07:12):
Brilliant that' really good to hear.
Claire (07:13):
It's that amazing.
Chris (07:14):
Yeah
Claire (07:14):
I think it's what everybody wants, isn't it. And
it's sad that you have to havehealth issues to get to that
point, I suppose. But it doesoften seem to be the way that a
lot of people we speak to you,they've been through loss and
grief. And that's what's madethem more accepting of others or
themselves, or they've got thisamazing, you know, view of the
world and you know, you two areboth in jobs where you help
(07:35):
people a lot. It's made you verycaring, very outward looking
probably because of you knowwhat you've been through if
you'd been Superman, you mightnot have done the same job
Chris (07:44):
Talk about the health challenge side of things because
for those that don't know us sowell, a view of you might be
that you are a very manly man,you'd like sport, you'd like
beer, you've got a great senseof humour. But then clearly
inside there are sort ofvulnerabilities and past you've
had to come to terms withyourself. So is that been an
easy story for you through theyears of thinking? Well, you
know, I like to do all theoutgoing extrovert stuff, but
(08:04):
then there is a gentle softerside as well.
Jonathon (08:07):
Yeah, it's I guess it's a complicated answer. I had
renal failure from birth. I wasborn with a polyp on my kidney,
found when I was two weeks old.
So they had to remove thatkidney. And then the kidney I
had remaining had somethingcalled reflux, where essentially
the waste was washing back intothe kidney. It wasn't draining
through the urethra. And itbasically diseased that kidney
(08:30):
to the point where it was, itwas unsalvageable, it was sort
of a swipe. Most of mychildhood, I grew up with very
minimal renal function. Theykept telling me I'd be on a
machine at some point in myearly teens, however, it lasted
till I was about yeah about 18.
And then I was quite poorly fortwo years. And then almost 20
(08:54):
years ago, I had a transplant2004. And yeah, and ever since
then, sort of yeah, I've beenliving with that.
Chris (09:04):
And so have you found it easy or hard or somewhere in
between to be open about yourown challenges with people that
you meet for the first time orfriends that you're getting to
know and sort of findingsupport? And that is a very
private thing? Or is itsomething you're quite open
about?
Jonathon (09:18):
I think I am known as being a bit of an oversharer. To
be honest, I think I get thatfrom my mother, but I'm very
open person, maybe to a fault attimes, perhaps I think there are
times where you do need to keepthings privately and close to
your chest. But But generally,I'm quite open to just speaking
about my situation I find,particularly when I'm around
(09:39):
people and maybe you'reexperiencing their own
difficulties, because I think Ithink it can really help maybe
help with the empathy side ofthings. Because I have
experienced lots of differentchallenges in life because of my
health. So I think it just givesme a really good perspective on
life. And when I meet people,and so I'll try and I try and
use it positively where I can I
Chris (10:00):
must be a nightmare as a social worker, because you're
coming across everyday storiesof great need of despair, where
you're feeling and empathising,you must carry some weight.
Jonathon (10:09):
Yeah, you can feel like that. I think what Laura
said about her her home andbeing gratitude, I think that's
really true. I think I am I am,I I'm quite grateful person in
terms of, I realise, life couldbe a lot more difficult for me
if I had a certain perspective.
But because I think I'm quitegrateful person also, and sort
of try and see the positive andhumour in most things I try. And
(10:33):
I try and bring that positivityinto the situations that are
going to be those difficult, youknow, when when, when you walk
into situations that areparticularly sort of dark or, or
bleak, maybe,
Claire (10:49):
I think, a lot of people out there who, who find
it quite scary the idea ofmeeting somebody, when you've
got to explain your medicalhistory, or you've got things
going on physically, that youneed to tell them about, what
would you want to say to peoplewho are in that place, and what
has sort of helped you in yourrelationship in your marriage,
when it comes to sort ofnavigating these things
together?
Laura (11:07):
I think maybe what you initially said, so humour has
been very much part of ourregular conversations, when
there's been different healthchallenges. Just trying to sort
of see the lighter or the funnyside, even in really difficult
situations. I think that hasbeen both of our defaults before
we met each other. And so thenit was kind of natural that we
(11:30):
would sort of continue withthat,
Jonathon (11:32):
I think really just sort of not been scared to
actually have those deepconversations with one another.
I think, when you when sort ofanxieties arise around health, I
think it's important that youdon't let those things get a
grip with you. And that you doyou have those people around you
who you can go and speak to, Ithink there was certainly a
period in my life in my 20s,where I perhaps didn't know how
(11:56):
to deal with some of the moredifficult feelings. And I would
maybe shut myself away, and sortof hide behind sort of
distracting myself with variousthings, computer games, or just,
you know, mechanisms ofdistraction. But actually, they
weren't helpful. And so now,when we have maybe difficult
times, or challenges with ourhealth, we, we do talk about
(12:18):
those things. And then maybeafter we've processed those
things together, we do then sortof sort of see maybe it does
feel a bit lighter. And then thehumour comes along, you know,
after that, what
Chris (12:29):
you said at the start there about not being afraid to
have those deeper conversationsclaiming to be married now for
when it goes get the fingerwrong, but it's some 19 years.
And I still find that and welove deep conversation. But I
still find at times, I reallyhave to almost like okay, we're
going in this isn't going to beeasy. It's going to be a bumpy
ride, but I know the other sideof it, I know for sure it will
(12:50):
be a good thing to do. But it'snever fun in the process. Is it
something like this, sometimesit's not fun in the process that
you make yourself, have thoseconversations, realising that
this is going to be healthy forus, and will feel lighter at the
end. So it's remarkable that,you know, you're able even quite
early on in your marriage, thatyou're both realising, get over
the fear of having thisconversation because it will, it
(13:11):
will do as good.
Laura (13:12):
I don't know if that's even necessarily been a choice.
I think we've probably becauseit's something that we've lived
with sort of once a month, anddifferent things have even
happened in the last year and ahalf in terms of our health, you
kind of you can't really putthings off. So sometimes what
it's like so at the forefront ofyour daily life, you sort of
have to have those, thoseconversations, but as you say,
once you have, like, you know,been open and discussed, then
(13:36):
you know that it's well worth itin terms of when you've got to
the other side, that you do geta lot closer you do build up
trust. And yeah, it does reallyjust help to build your marriage
really.
Chris (13:47):
Marriage, then Jonathon, for you. And I use your full
name 'Jonathon', like Lauradoes, rather than calling you
Jon. I mean, one of the thingsthat well, two things that stood
out from your marriage that wehad the joy of being at your
your wedding, on your weddingday being at the ceremony, being
at the reception, hearing thespeeches that there was this
this common theme of humour andgratitude, just how thankful you
(14:09):
both I think it came acrosscertainly in your speech,
Jonathon, nearly said Jon, butalso, you know, your friends and
family that that spoke that wemet that did speeches as well
for them, they was sort of sothankful for the both of you to
find each other because of whatyou're able to do for each
other, which was just lovely foryou, then in your marriage.
What's sort of your vision,what's your hope for the future
(14:32):
of this is who I want to be inmy marriage as a husband is a
big question. But do you havelike designs on this as the
person I'm wanting to be inspend everyday being more like
this or how does that work foryou?
Jonathon (14:44):
Yeah. I think the thing that I want the most in
life for my marriages. So if Iif I kind of flip that question
slightly, so I always wantedsomeone in my life who could
support me and be there To helphelp push me on in life and help
me sort of see my dreams andvisions come to pass, but I
(15:08):
desperately want my wife'svisions and dreams and hopes to
come to pass also. And so, so mygoal is a husband, and what I
hope I can do, and hope I'm I amdoing. Yeah, I want to sort of
be, I want to be Laura's biggestcheer person, if you like to
sort of see her fulfil herhopes, dreams and ambitions in
(15:32):
life, you know, and to help usto achieve those things. That's
what I want to do.
Chris (15:37):
Brilliant.
Claire (15:37):
This is where I give you a cheeky side glance. You
listening?
Chris (15:40):
We need to work on that.
Claire (15:42):
Chris is my biggest criticiser...
Chris (15:44):
And cheerleader.
Claire (15:47):
And cheerleader.
Chris (15:48):
It's called constructive criticism.
Claire (15:50):
Yeah.
Chris (15:52):
Great. Knowing the pair of you, as we do, you know,
we've talked about hope andlove. But faith is such a major
element as well, for you both.
There is something much biggerat play in your lives in your
marriage individually. Andtogether. Is it possible just to
summarise what having a sharedChristian faith what difference
that's made for you together?
And individually?
Jonathon (16:10):
I think certainly, before we met, it was probably
for me, it was the mostimportant thing, I wanted to
find someone who shared the samefaith as me. And so that was
quite important that, you know,Laura went to church, and we
both believed in God. And I'llcertainly say that for myself.
And for both of us that sort of,we we glean a lot of hope from
our faith. And we feel that Godsort of forms the foundation of
(16:33):
our relationship as for ourlife, and so if we just found
that through through our faiththat we've been able to sort of
tackle so many differenthurdles, that perhaps would be
so much more difficult withoutthat faith. So yeah, so it's
fundamental, really, andimportant to us.
Laura (16:47):
I think, sort of having health conditions makes you
realise that you're not alwaysin control that you're not
infallible, and you're kind ofneed for something beyond
yourself. And I think, sort oftrusting God through these
different sort of challenges hasbeen huge for us. So just
knowing that actually, we don'tneed to be in control, we can
(17:10):
trust that he has the best forus, and that he could bring us
through things. And yeah, justsort of having that belief that
it's not all on us, I think hasbeen a huge source of like,
comfort and reassurance and justsort of taking that pressure
off.
Chris (17:25):
Sometimes the faith you talk about is criticised as
Laura (17:25):
Yeah, I think it just brings a different perspective,
being a crutch. But it's almostlike Yeah, and we need that and
we want it to it's our choice tohave that support, to have faith
to have hope, love sort of fromhaving.
doesn't it because we're, youknow, we're all human, we've all
got different issues. And for usto assume that we can just sort
(17:45):
of do everything in our ownstrength. I think it kind of
when you have health problems,just proves that that's not
always possible. And so it justYeah, brings about that, that
need for Gordon in our lives.
Chris (18:06):
So there you have it.
Thank you, Jonathon, and Laurafor talking so openly about how
you navigate the curveballs thatlife throws at you.
Claire (18:13):
And thank you for listening. We're so grateful for
you, not just because you listento this podcast, but because, if
you are, you're trying to learnabout grief and loss and you're
interested in the stories ofothers. You know the power and
the impact that testimony canhave on the lives of others, and
that makes you very special. Ispoke to someone the other day
for an hour I learned a lotabout them, lovely person, but
they didn't ask a singlequestion about me. It's sad that
(18:35):
too often these are the peoplewe meet in life. Let's not be
these people. Let's ask aboutpeople's lives. Let's have
conversations like this onein-person. Sometimes it can
literally save lives.
Chris (18:45):
Maybe you know someone that's struggling right now.
Maybe it's a health issue, afinancial one, a relationship
breakdown, job stress,parenting, anxiety, bereavement?
Well, we have two brilliantideas to help you practically
with that. You could share anepisode with them, show them a
story of someone else goingthrough something similar, so
they know they're not alone, andthat you want to help, or you
(19:06):
can send them a Herman andthere's more about all of that
on our website,www.thesilentwhy.com Now we're
finishing this episode with aquote from the artist and poet
Bridget Nicole.
Claire (19:16):
"People who love you for who you are and not for what
you can do for them are the bestkind of people."
Welcome to The Silent Why and to a very special bonus
episode.
Chris (00:06):
As you may know, Claire and I (I'm Chris, by the way),
are on a podcast mission toexplore 101 different types of
loss to see if hope can exist inevery one.
Claire (00:14):
Last week we spoke to Laura Burns about her experience
of being diagnosed with alopeciain her early 20s.
Chris (00:19):
And while we recorded that in person interview, her
husband and our friend Jon, whowe knew even before Laura came
into his life was sat therewatching and listening.
Claire (00:29):
Not in a creepy way! So we thought, why not bring him in
on the conversation and ask himwhat it was like to meet and
date somebody with alopecia.
Plus, we really wanted to hearhis side of the week flying off
story that Laura told us.
Chris (00:41):
If you haven't listened to the last episode, you
probably want to zip back andhear that first, then come with
us as we chat to Jon and Laura.
Claire (00:43):
It's worth noting that this is not a couple that have
just had to deal with alopeciato diagnosis. Laura's had brain
surgery more than once, and Jon,as you're gonna hear about in
this episode, was born withrenal failure and had a kidney
transplant. How they are and howthey just see life, despite
their health challenges is trulyinspiring.
Chris (01:04):
So here we go. bonus episode time. And over to you,
Mr. Burns.
Jonathon (01:11):
Hi, I'm Jonathan, I'm Laura's husband. I live in the
Black Country in the WestMidlands, also.
Chris (01:17):
And this is great to have this conversation with you.
Because in the last episode,this is a bonus addition to
hearing your wife talk about 15years of alopecia. So I guess
just to get us going you werelistening to her talking about
that, obviously not a newsubject for you. So just being
part of that hearing, Lauratalking about it with a
(01:39):
microphone in front of her, whatwas that experience like for you
as her protective husband?
Jonathon (01:43):
Yeah, quite, quite a strange, strange experience? I
would say. Yeah, obviously, I'veheard heard Laura speak to me
quite a number of times abouther experience and journey with
alopecia. And now it's sort ofnot being an easy one. But at
the same time, I find it quitedifficult to imagine her feeling
anxious or sort of worried aboutthose sort of, you know,
(02:05):
insecurities, perhaps because,you know, she's such a positive
person. So So yes, it was it wasquite, it was interesting.
Claire (02:13):
And like Laura said, it's really hard when you're
younger, and something happensphysically, especially to have
that confidence, you'll meetsomebody that will love you,
despite that. So I think you,Jon are one of the things that
every woman hopes is out thereis a man that loves you for who
you are, I love that you guyshave found each other because
you're just the most gorgeouscouple. And even when you're
just talking, Laura's justlooking at you with such love
and smile makes my heart warm.
Anyway, yeah. And you're herewith us. And I'm just we're so
(02:35):
grateful for you know, yourrelationship and what you've
been able to share, because Iknow you've had your health
issues as well. So Laura hasdone the same for you as you
have for her. So tell us a bitabout what it was like I was
gonna say when Laura first toldyou about alopecia but also
about the wigs moment that weheard on the last episode when
it flew off expecting it. Whatwas that, like from your side?
Jonathon (02:55):
Well, obviously, I known about the wig for for
quite a long time at this point.
And I sort of there was varioustimes where we spend together
where I would feel quitefrustrated on her behalf because
I had a feeling that she wasuncomfortable. I obviously
understood, you know, like,wearing a woolly hat all day is
not a comfortable thing. And atsome point you're gonna get he
(03:17):
let alone indoors with a heatingon. And so I was kind of
desperate for her to sort oftake it off and feel comfortable
around me that was sort of my,my first sort of feelings around
it. And this sort of just howthis, it was just a bizarre
thing that happened. I think Iwent to put my arm rounder, you
know, I'm realise how smooth Iam not. And clearly clearly in
(03:37):
doing that, as dislodged theweek, considerably,
considerably. And it's neverhappened since I honestly never
happened before. And as Laurasaid, you know, I've been with
her, when we've been out walkingin quite quite some gales and
things like that they they donot just blow off. They're very
(03:59):
sturdy. So it was a funny thing.
But I remember when it happened,I knew immediately that she'd be
upset. And my sort of searchthoughts were really to try and
reassure her. Because I justrealised, and I didn't really
know what to say, at that pointover then sort of just to say
(04:20):
it's okay, you know, I knowabout this, you know, this is
not a shock to me. And, yeah,this is absolutely fine. You
don't need to worry about it.
And I don't want you to bewearing it in the house and you
know, all day with centralheating on, but it took a little
bit longer before she was ableto sort of do that around me on
a consistent basis. I'm sure shewas sort of checking to see what
(04:40):
my reactions were. But I thinkshe sort of realised that it
really didn't bother me and itdidn't that yeah, that she she
was able to sort of be morecomfortable around me
Chris (04:53):
Rewind to a time where you didn't know her as well as
you did at that point in person.
And Laura mentioned theconversation about are getting
together first of all meetingonline and false advertising. So
on reflection, how do you feellike you handled, you know,
finding out about Laura, all ofLaura in online before meeting
in person? How was thatexperience for you?
Jonathon (05:15):
So I, I've had my own health challenges. Throughout
the entirety of my life, I wasused to those feelings of
insecurity from my own side ofthings and the worries of not
possibly finding someone toaccept you. Essentially, when
when we exchanged numbers aftermeeting online, Laura commented
on what my profile picture was,and long story short, I had a
(05:39):
picture of a supermodel wifeWhatsApp profile picture, well,
false. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly. And, and she, she askedme a question, why have you got
that it's a really strange thingto have. But growing up adult
health difficulties, and I wasobsessed with Superman,
Christopher, even Superman. AndI think it was just because he
(06:00):
was so far removed from sort of,you know, who was what I wanted
to be, I wanted to be Supermanfly around everywhere saving the
world. This is my sort of, hewas my hero when I was a small
child. And sort of at a point inmy life, I had a kidney
transplant, and experienced alot of difficulties after that.
And I remember someone having aconversation with me, who didn't
(06:20):
know that I had this sort ofobsession with Superman, as a
child, who said to me, you know,you can be Superman, you know,
you, you can do what you want,you don't need to worry about
your health and the anxietiesthat you feel you have that
permission, and the bit of abizarre statement, but at the
same time, it was weird, becausethey didn't know about that. And
(06:43):
so I had this WhatsApp picture.
And very early on, I justexplained to her a bit, it led
to a conversation about myhealth. I was I was so worried
about feeling accepted, thatwhen she told me about her
situation, it didn't bother me.
I was quite surprised myselfthat it didn't bother me. I have
(07:04):
to be honest. But you reallydidn't kind of surprise myself
and pleasantly,
Chris (07:12):
Brilliant that' really good to hear.
Claire (07:13):
It's that amazing.
Chris (07:14):
Yeah
Claire (07:14):
I think it's what everybody wants, isn't it. And
it's sad that you have to havehealth issues to get to that
point, I suppose. But it doesoften seem to be the way that a
lot of people we speak to you,they've been through loss and
grief. And that's what's madethem more accepting of others or
themselves, or they've got thisamazing, you know, view of the
world and you know, you two areboth in jobs where you help
(07:35):
people a lot. It's made you verycaring, very outward looking
probably because of you knowwhat you've been through if
you'd been Superman, you mightnot have done the same job
Chris (07:44):
Talk about the health challenge side of things because
for those that don't know us sowell, a view of you might be
that you are a very manly man,you'd like sport, you'd like
beer, you've got a great senseof humour. But then clearly
inside there are sort ofvulnerabilities and past you've
had to come to terms withyourself. So is that been an
easy story for you through theyears of thinking? Well, you
know, I like to do all theoutgoing extrovert stuff, but
(08:04):
then there is a gentle softerside as well.
Jonathon (08:07):
Yeah, it's I guess it's a complicated answer. I had
renal failure from birth. I wasborn with a polyp on my kidney,
found when I was two weeks old.
So they had to remove thatkidney. And then the kidney I
had remaining had somethingcalled reflux, where essentially
the waste was washing back intothe kidney. It wasn't draining
through the urethra. And itbasically diseased that kidney
(08:30):
to the point where it was, itwas unsalvageable, it was sort
of a swipe. Most of mychildhood, I grew up with very
minimal renal function. Theykept telling me I'd be on a
machine at some point in myearly teens, however, it lasted
till I was about yeah about 18.
And then I was quite poorly fortwo years. And then almost 20
(08:54):
years ago, I had a transplant2004. And yeah, and ever since
then, sort of yeah, I've beenliving with that.
Chris (09:04):
And so have you found it easy or hard or somewhere in
between to be open about yourown challenges with people that
you meet for the first time orfriends that you're getting to
know and sort of findingsupport? And that is a very
private thing? Or is itsomething you're quite open
about?
Jonathon (09:18):
I think I am known as being a bit of an oversharer. To
be honest, I think I get thatfrom my mother, but I'm very
open person, maybe to a fault attimes, perhaps I think there are
times where you do need to keepthings privately and close to
your chest. But But generally,I'm quite open to just speaking
about my situation I find,particularly when I'm around
(09:39):
people and maybe you'reexperiencing their own
difficulties, because I think Ithink it can really help maybe
help with the empathy side ofthings. Because I have
experienced lots of differentchallenges in life because of my
health. So I think it just givesme a really good perspective on
life. And when I meet people,and so I'll try and I try and
use it positively where I can I
Chris (10:00):
must be a nightmare as a social worker, because you're
coming across everyday storiesof great need of despair, where
you're feeling and empathising,you must carry some weight.
Jonathon (10:09):
Yeah, you can feel like that. I think what Laura
said about her her home andbeing gratitude, I think that's
really true. I think I am I am,I I'm quite grateful person in
terms of, I realise, life couldbe a lot more difficult for me
if I had a certain perspective.
But because I think I'm quitegrateful person also, and sort
of try and see the positive andhumour in most things I try. And
(10:33):
I try and bring that positivityinto the situations that are
going to be those difficult, youknow, when when, when you walk
into situations that areparticularly sort of dark or, or
bleak, maybe,
Claire (10:49):
I think, a lot of people out there who, who find
it quite scary the idea ofmeeting somebody, when you've
got to explain your medicalhistory, or you've got things
going on physically, that youneed to tell them about, what
would you want to say to peoplewho are in that place, and what
has sort of helped you in yourrelationship in your marriage,
when it comes to sort ofnavigating these things
together?
Laura (11:07):
I think maybe what you initially said, so humour has
been very much part of ourregular conversations, when
there's been different healthchallenges. Just trying to sort
of see the lighter or the funnyside, even in really difficult
situations. I think that hasbeen both of our defaults before
we met each other. And so thenit was kind of natural that we
(11:30):
would sort of continue withthat,
Jonathon (11:32):
I think really just sort of not been scared to
actually have those deepconversations with one another.
I think, when you when sort ofanxieties arise around health, I
think it's important that youdon't let those things get a
grip with you. And that you doyou have those people around you
who you can go and speak to, Ithink there was certainly a
period in my life in my 20s,where I perhaps didn't know how
(11:56):
to deal with some of the moredifficult feelings. And I would
maybe shut myself away, and sortof hide behind sort of
distracting myself with variousthings, computer games, or just,
you know, mechanisms ofdistraction. But actually, they
weren't helpful. And so now,when we have maybe difficult
times, or challenges with ourhealth, we, we do talk about
(12:18):
those things. And then maybeafter we've processed those
things together, we do then sortof sort of see maybe it does
feel a bit lighter. And then thehumour comes along, you know,
after that, what
Chris (12:29):
you said at the start there about not being afraid to
have those deeper conversationsclaiming to be married now for
when it goes get the fingerwrong, but it's some 19 years.
And I still find that and welove deep conversation. But I
still find at times, I reallyhave to almost like okay, we're
going in this isn't going to beeasy. It's going to be a bumpy
ride, but I know the other sideof it, I know for sure it will
(12:50):
be a good thing to do. But it'snever fun in the process. Is it
something like this, sometimesit's not fun in the process that
you make yourself, have thoseconversations, realising that
this is going to be healthy forus, and will feel lighter at the
end. So it's remarkable that,you know, you're able even quite
early on in your marriage, thatyou're both realising, get over
the fear of having thisconversation because it will, it
(13:11):
will do as good.
Laura (13:12):
I don't know if that's even necessarily been a choice.
I think we've probably becauseit's something that we've lived
with sort of once a month, anddifferent things have even
happened in the last year and ahalf in terms of our health, you
kind of you can't really putthings off. So sometimes what
it's like so at the forefront ofyour daily life, you sort of
have to have those, thoseconversations, but as you say,
once you have, like, you know,been open and discussed, then
(13:36):
you know that it's well worth itin terms of when you've got to
the other side, that you do geta lot closer you do build up
trust. And yeah, it does reallyjust help to build your marriage
really.
Chris (13:47):
Marriage, then Jonathon, for you. And I use your full
name 'Jonathon', like Lauradoes, rather than calling you
Jon. I mean, one of the thingsthat well, two things that stood
out from your marriage that wehad the joy of being at your
your wedding, on your weddingday being at the ceremony, being
at the reception, hearing thespeeches that there was this
this common theme of humour andgratitude, just how thankful you
(14:09):
both I think it came acrosscertainly in your speech,
Jonathon, nearly said Jon, butalso, you know, your friends and
family that that spoke that wemet that did speeches as well
for them, they was sort of sothankful for the both of you to
find each other because of whatyou're able to do for each
other, which was just lovely foryou, then in your marriage.
What's sort of your vision,what's your hope for the future
(14:32):
of this is who I want to be inmy marriage as a husband is a
big question. But do you havelike designs on this as the
person I'm wanting to be inspend everyday being more like
this or how does that work foryou?
Jonathon (14:44):
Yeah. I think the thing that I want the most in
life for my marriages. So if Iif I kind of flip that question
slightly, so I always wantedsomeone in my life who could
support me and be there To helphelp push me on in life and help
me sort of see my dreams andvisions come to pass, but I
(15:08):
desperately want my wife'svisions and dreams and hopes to
come to pass also. And so, so mygoal is a husband, and what I
hope I can do, and hope I'm I amdoing. Yeah, I want to sort of
be, I want to be Laura's biggestcheer person, if you like to
sort of see her fulfil herhopes, dreams and ambitions in
(15:32):
life, you know, and to help usto achieve those things. That's
what I want to do.
Chris (15:37):
Brilliant.
Claire (15:37):
This is where I give you a cheeky side glance. You
listening?
Chris (15:40):
We need to work on that.
Claire (15:42):
Chris is my biggest criticiser...
Chris (15:44):
And cheerleader.
Claire (15:47):
And cheerleader.
Chris (15:48):
It's called constructive criticism.
Claire (15:50):
Yeah.
Chris (15:52):
Great. Knowing the pair of you, as we do, you know,
we've talked about hope andlove. But faith is such a major
element as well, for you both.
There is something much biggerat play in your lives in your
marriage individually. Andtogether. Is it possible just to
summarise what having a sharedChristian faith what difference
that's made for you together?
And individually?
Jonathon (16:10):
I think certainly, before we met, it was probably
for me, it was the mostimportant thing, I wanted to
find someone who shared the samefaith as me. And so that was
quite important that, you know,Laura went to church, and we
both believed in God. And I'llcertainly say that for myself.
And for both of us that sort of,we we glean a lot of hope from
our faith. And we feel that Godsort of forms the foundation of
(16:33):
our relationship as for ourlife, and so if we just found
that through through our faiththat we've been able to sort of
tackle so many differenthurdles, that perhaps would be
so much more difficult withoutthat faith. So yeah, so it's
fundamental, really, andimportant to us.
Laura (16:47):
I think, sort of having health conditions makes you
realise that you're not alwaysin control that you're not
infallible, and you're kind ofneed for something beyond
yourself. And I think, sort oftrusting God through these
different sort of challenges hasbeen huge for us. So just
knowing that actually, we don'tneed to be in control, we can
(17:10):
trust that he has the best forus, and that he could bring us
through things. And yeah, justsort of having that belief that
it's not all on us, I think hasbeen a huge source of like,
comfort and reassurance and justsort of taking that pressure
off.
Chris (17:25):
Sometimes the faith you talk about is criticised as
Laura (17:25):
Yeah, I think it just brings a different perspective,
being a crutch. But it's almostlike Yeah, and we need that and
we want it to it's our choice tohave that support, to have faith
to have hope, love sort of fromhaving.
doesn't it because we're, youknow, we're all human, we've all
got different issues. And for usto assume that we can just sort
(17:45):
of do everything in our ownstrength. I think it kind of
when you have health problems,just proves that that's not
always possible. And so it justYeah, brings about that, that
need for Gordon in our lives.
Chris (18:06):
So there you have it.
Thank you, Jonathon, and Laurafor talking so openly about how
you navigate the curveballs thatlife throws at you.
Claire (18:13):
And thank you for listening. We're so grateful for
you, not just because you listento this podcast, but because, if
you are, you're trying to learnabout grief and loss and you're
interested in the stories ofothers. You know the power and
the impact that testimony canhave on the lives of others, and
that makes you very special. Ispoke to someone the other day
for an hour I learned a lotabout them, lovely person, but
they didn't ask a singlequestion about me. It's sad that
(18:35):
too often these are the peoplewe meet in life. Let's not be
these people. Let's ask aboutpeople's lives. Let's have
conversations like this onein-person. Sometimes it can
literally save lives.
Chris (18:45):
Maybe you know someone that's struggling right now.
Maybe it's a health issue, afinancial one, a relationship
breakdown, job stress,parenting, anxiety, bereavement?
Well, we have two brilliantideas to help you practically
with that. You could share anepisode with them, show them a
story of someone else goingthrough something similar, so
they know they're not alone, andthat you want to help, or you
(19:06):
can send them a Herman andthere's more about all of that
on our website,www.thesilentwhy.com Now we're
finishing this episode with aquote from the artist and poet
Bridget Nicole.
Claire (19:16):
"People who love you for who you are and not for what
you can do for them are the bestkind of people."
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