February 19, 2024 • 44 mins
#098. Let's Chat... about the amazing part that colour can play at a funeral.
Let’s Chat episodes are with guests who have experience/expertise in a particular area of loss. In this episode, I (Claire Sandys) chat to the very lovely Jen Watson, a Funeral Celebrant in Kent.
I first heard about Jen on our Funeral-Director-Work-Experience trip to North Wales. Back then she was known as Jen Wilkinson, but now she has a new name, a new patch to work on, and it was great to finally connect with her.
Jen setup JW Celebrancy in 2021 after qualifying as a Funeral Celebrant and has cultivated a very vibrant way to brand her services - which I was eager to chat to her about.
Jen offers empathetic and colourful services for bereaved families to help them share their loved one’s final life-story. She has a beautiful way of involving colours in a funeral (which leaves you desperate to get a glimpse at her wardrobe) and shares how she's developed this, and why she's never led a service in full black.
It's a great conversation that will make you smile and well-up, and inspire you when it comes to funeral planning, as well as give you a whole new take on how other people celebrate their loved ones when they die.
For more about Jen, visit her website or social media:
https://jwcelebrancy.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/JenWatsonFuneralCelebrantJWCelebrancy
https://www.instagram.com/jenwatsonfuneralcelebrant/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-jwcelebrancy/
And Jen is also the proud owner of Herman and did this great video on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/C2KIfpXs4dA/
For my previous chats with Funeral Celebrants & Funeral Directors, visit: https://www.thesilentwhy.com/letschat
For Loss 43/101: Loss of life for a Funeral Director:
https://www.thesilentwhy.com/podcast/episode/7abc6ce6/loss-43101-loss-of-life-for-a-funeral-director-jonathen-harty-and-chris-lord-brown
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Claire (00:00):
Hello there, and thanks for joining me for another
episode of Let's Chat on TheSilent Why. A podcast exploring
how and where we can find hopethrough grief and loss. I'm
Claire Sandys, host, blogwriter, published writer... yep,
that's right. In fact, the bookI'm a contributor to came out
last week in the UK. So checkout 'Praying Through
Infertility' by Sheridan Voyseyto see more about that. And I'm
(00:21):
also now a Herman maker. Yep, mylittle podcast has expanded to
handmade products that you canbuy for people in your life that
are going through a hard time,whether it's a bereavement,
hospital treatment, anxiety,stress, loneliness, anything
else. Herman is the perfectcompanion to send your loved
one. And you can find out moreabout that at
www.thehermancompany.com. I'llput the link in the show notes.
(00:44):
Today's Let's Chat guest, who'sactually already the proud owner
of her own Herman and you cansee that on her social media
because she did a lovely videoabout it, is the very colourful,
and the very wonderful, JenWatson.
In these Let's Chat episodes, Italked to a guest who has
experience or expertise in aparticular area of loss. And
from each guest, I'm building ametaphorical tool shed of
(01:04):
equipment to help us face andget through loss and grief. So
the last question I asked themis, what their tool is, and
today to the begun, in fact, I'mgoing to expand my shed to fit
it in. Fortunately, you can dothat very easily with
metaphorical sheds. So back totoday's guest, Jen Watson is a
funeral celebrant in Kent,although she was actually
somewhere else when we firstmade contact and even had a
(01:27):
different name. Now, she's not awanted woman by the police or
anything, but should explainmore when we chat. Jen set up JW
celebrancy in 2021, afterqualifying as a funeral
celebrant and has cultivated avery unique and vibrant way to
brand her services, which I'vebeen eager to chat to her about
for a while now. As her websitesays she offers empathetic
personal and colourful servicesfor bereaved families to help
(01:49):
them share their loved onesfinal life story. I've spoken to
a few funeral celebrants andfuneral directors on the podcast
so far. And I can't believe thevariety and uniqueness they all
bring to planning, hosting andleading funerals of all shapes
and sizes. But it's also reallyinteresting to hear the stories
they have, and how theypersonally process and deal with
(02:10):
being around grief in this way.
This is a great conversationabout how Jen loves to bring out
cherished colours in any funeralshe's part of, I know it's a
chat that's gonna make yousmile, laugh well up or maybe
even shed a tear because it'sjust wonderful. So grab a cup of
tea or coffee or maybe a whitehot chocolate if it's as cold
where you are as it is here andrelax with me and Jen, as we
(02:30):
chat about adding colour tofunerals.
Jen (02:37):
Well, I'm Jen Watson, and I'm a funeral celebrant. I'm
nickname Jenny Wren as mychildhood nickname. And I'm
based in birchington in Kent, soleave services across the sort
of family area as it's knownlocally. So I'm known for
leading personal and colourfulfuneral services.
Claire (02:59):
Lovely and why Jenny Wren where's that come from? Ah,
so
Jen (03:03):
yeah, I think most journeys are known as Jenny Wrens kind of
affectionately. And so I justgrew up with my mum sort of
naming me sort of Jenny Wren, orif we saw a wren bird she'd
below those are genuine. Soyeah, sort of carried on. And
that's why my business logo isrendered on a book. So it's a
(03:25):
book where one side is black,one side is white. One to
represent the sort of the personwho's died or the child or baby
that's died and the other thekind of family and friends they
have to just keep turning pageskeep living their life, and
wrens. Even though they are tinybirds, they are known for being
(03:46):
one of the loudest. So as afuneral celebrant, I am really a
family's voice piece as I get toshare their loved ones life
story. So that's the Jenny Wrensort of part of me.
Claire (03:59):
I love when logos have got so much meaning to them like
that. There's something reallylovely I heard someone say
recently there should always bea story behind logos and
branding as a perfect example ofpulling it all together and so
personal as well.
Jen (04:10):
And people catch on to it.
They'd send me little Ren thingsor thank you cards were Rennes
on and I got a painted rockrecently and the lady had spent
ages painting like a ran on therock and so I think people pick
it out as they're out and about.
Claire (04:26):
I also saw on your website that you mentioned you
like lint white chocolate, isthat something that you can do
that because you put it on thewebsite. I've
Jen (04:33):
only ever had one white chocolate basket get but that is
my downfall. White chocolateballs straight from the fridge
there my ad zone calendar go to.
Claire (04:44):
So when I first connected with you, it was
through our trip to Wales, youwere in a different place
different country and you had adifferent name. So you've had a
lot going on since we firstconnected so just tell us a
little bit about that kind ofmove and what's been happening
because I know some peoplelistening to this will have
known you in Wales and willprobably be wanting to You know,
what's happening with you now?
Jen (05:01):
That's right. So I first connected with you as Jenny
Wilkinson was my surname. So I'mnow Watson. And I was born and
brought up in north Wales. Sothat was you entered my home
place really and connected withthe funeral directors and
celebrants and they woodlandburial ground as well. So you
(05:22):
kind of brushed it againstpeople that I knew well, but I
knew I was in transition movingout of the area, as my husband
got a job as the senior ministerin a church in Burlington Kent.
So we have relocated in August.
So we've settled the kids in socomplete fresh start and fresh
start for me as a funeralcelebrant too, because I lost my
(05:44):
kind of go to funeral directorsand families. So I've had to
start kind of from scratch andbe the newbie again in a brand
new area. So my wheels arebeginning to turn now. So it's
been a good positive move.
Claire (06:00):
That's a lot of change a lot of things to navigate there
in one go. So tell us a bitabout the funeral celebrant
life. When did that start? Haveyou always been one? Is that a
new thing? How did that comeabout? Well,
Jen (06:09):
my background is in children and young people in
counselling. So I was back innorth Wales one of the first
teenagers aged 16 to be trainedas a Childline counsellor, at
the time it was based in realnorth Wales. So I got quite used
to being on the phone, hearingpeople's stories in their worst
(06:30):
moments and tuning in thatactive listening. So those sorts
of skills as a young teenagercarried through lots of
different work that involvedpeople, people on their most
difficult days, counselling,volunteering and family based
things. And so during thepandemic, I had the big life
change. And I was actuallylistening to a podcast where a
(06:54):
pastor had retrained as afuneral celebrant, and I hadn't
a clue what a funeral celebrantwas at that point. And as she
began to describe how shesupports families, when they
don't want a minister, it wasliterally as if a light bulb
went off inside me. And it waslike, this is self employment.
(07:15):
This is all my passions of kindof hearing people meeting new
people, the creative element ofputting something together, the
presenting something, all thosedifferent things coming together
really. So yeah, I completelychanged my life at that moment,
trained through the pandemic,while the kids were being sort
(07:36):
of homeschooled. And yeah, beganin north Wales. You
Claire (07:41):
know, I'm sure there's some people listening who just
don't understand wanting tospend most of your time around
funerals, grieving people lostdeath, very sad stories and
situations. What is it about itthat drew you to it? And what
what do you love about it?
Jen (07:56):
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think
it's the dwelling with someonehaving that kind of right to
just be present with them intheir pain. It's a real honour
and privilege just to be thereon their worst day. And some of
the services I've led and theheart brokenness, in that
(08:17):
moment, just to be present, likeparents whose child has died,
it's just them and you in thatvenue, it's just such an
honouring that it kind of Yeah,that active listening, that
being there, sometimes no wordsare necessary. So my heart has
always for the brokenhearted, ontheir difficult days, whether
it's listening to them beingthere, and also the people who
(08:42):
just don't have hope or faith inthat time, either. I know with
firearms, going throughdifficult things and know what I
would lean on what I would do.
And actually, when you're aroundpeople whose hope has gone, and
they're in trauma, and have gotbig questions, it is a real
honour just to be present. Iremember one bereaved wife
saying to me, I guess at thispoint, faith would be helpful,
(09:04):
but she just couldn't lean onit. It didn't work for her. So
for me, it's that deep down,just being there, being present
in the grease in the painwithout judgement, and just
listening. Yeah,
Claire (09:19):
I've spoken to a few people who've worked in
different areas like this withpeople that are really heavily
grieving. And there seems to bethis assumption that if you do
that kind of job, it means thatyou're tougher, you don't get
affected by these things. Otherpeople sort of say, Oh, I could
never do it. I'd get tooemotional. You know, and I don't
think having spoken to a lot ofpeople in these kinds of jobs.
That's the case. They're not anytougher than anyone else. They
(09:40):
have got ways of dealing with itand coping with it. But it
doesn't mean they're notaffected by these situations. So
how do you cope with theemotion?
Jen (09:46):
I am not a robot. I have deep emotions and probably quite
an empathetic person. So I canfeel things quite sort of
deeply. If I were to go numb inthis job, I think I'd Need to
change jobs. So those emotionsthat I feel around families are
keeping me grounded. But I dohave a sort of professional
(10:09):
voice on my shoulder that kindof says to me, this is not like
your grief. But I do cry a lot.
There are moments where I walkaway from a situation and I just
go, this is absolutely rubbish.
And I can't help but feelemotional. It does affect you
deeply. And grateful. I've gotpeople around me that support
(10:32):
me, a husband, who lets me sortof process things without
needing to know ins and outs anddetails, I can come back from a
family and just go, Oh, this oneis just cut me deep. And he just
listens and empathises. But hecan't fix it, he can't get
involved. And I, I lean on a lotof sorts of counsellors myself,
(10:54):
having sort of trained throughthat way. So I think that's
really important that self care,taking breathers between things,
and everyone has their differentthing that helps them top up.
Again, I'm quite an outdoorsygirl. So just the things like
going for a walk, journaling,praying, all sorts of things,
and white chocolate limp balls.
All these different things usebut it's not easy. And I think
(11:19):
if you approach it with a hardheart, you're not going to
support families very well.
Claire (11:27):
Yeah, that's a really good explanation of, of the
difference between being hardand actually dealing with it in
a healthy way, as well. Becauseit's really lovely to hear that
you do let yourself cry. And youdo let yourself feel those
emotions. Because I think for alot of people in these kinds of
jobs, especially the menprobably have had that pressure
of not being emotional, theysuppress it, and then it just
builds up and it comes outsomewhere else. And when we
(11:49):
interviewed Jonathan Hardy, thefuneral director, he said that
he you know, he's now allowinghimself more to if he if he
wants to shed a tear, he sheds atear for it. He doesn't repress
that anymore. I think that'sreally healthy, but very
difficult to do, especially asBritish people. It's stiff upper
lip, and you know, don't showweakness. So it's really healthy
to hear you're doing that andcounselling as well, you know,
one amazing place to be able toprocess things. And I think
(12:11):
we're getting a little bitbetter at that. Yeah.
Jen (12:13):
And it's asking, why was that a trigger for you. So I did
a service once where it wasabsolutely fine. And in that
moment of committal, and I saidthe person's full name for the
final time, I realised it wasthe same first two names as my
mom. And I had not realisedpreparing the service. But in
(12:33):
that moment, it caught methinking, this could be kind of
my mum, and I had to sort of inthat moment, be like, it's not
my mom, it's not my mom is okay,got through it. But then after
the service, it was like, oh, Ineed to just cry that out,
because it triggered. And Ithink that's where professional
help is really important.
Because it does sometimes pickthose things from your past. And
(12:54):
it would not be good for me tosay to that family, oh, kind of
those names are exactly the sameas my mom, though, he has to be
very sort of tuned in andsensitive as well.
Claire (13:06):
Well, thank you for doing this kind of work.
Everyone who I've spoken to whodoes it says it's a privilege.
But at the same time you'recarrying, you know, the cost of
it each time you walk into thesesituations, and having to be
professional, put your own stuffto one side while you do that.
And, you know, that's that's notan easy thing to do. And a lot
of people wouldn't be able to doit. So it's a real gifting as
well. So it's lovely to hearthat people can do it. And one
of the things I'm reallyinterested in specifically with
(13:28):
you is that you can't reallylook at any of your branding or
website or photos without seeingjust big splashes of bright
colours. So tell me a bit aboutwhy you've chosen that and how
that kind of is incorporatedinto how you do your funeral
celebrant sing that word, and
Jen (13:46):
a bread scene. Yeah. I am a daughter of an artist. So I
think as a child, I naturallyobserved colouring things and
the changes of seasons. And asmy mum would notice things and
create things, colour was alwayssort of part of my life. And
(14:06):
I've got like deep memories of achild of so like mixing the
primary colours and secondarycolours and being determined
trying to make purple and notmake it go brown. And all this
sort of paint mixing andmemories of sort of painting
walls colours, where you'd go tothe DIY stall and you choose
(14:26):
your colour. And this machinewould make it up for you with a
bit of this and a bit of that.
So colour, I think is a naturalthing as part of me. So when I
approached funerals, is fairlyblack. So I, I tried to be black
and traditional and I'mrespectful and all that but I
found I just wasn't me. And sowhen I met with families and you
(14:52):
hear their stories and you findout their favourite colours or
all sorts of things colouredJust came to the forefront and I
would naturally choose from mywardrobe, their favourite colour
as part of my outfit or my likeblazer or if it was a football
team, personalise their serviceby wearing the football team
(15:13):
colours. So colour I think justnaturally started to feed in so
I I don't think I've ever led aservice now head to toe in black
Wow, it's become something I'vebeen known for. And I think some
people appreciate it. SometimesI wear colours as a surprise. I
won't say to a family I willwear green because it's their
(15:33):
favourite colour. But I hearabout kind of what colour
flowers they've chosen anddifferent things like that. And
often a colour comes as aforefront. And they talk about
oh, she always wore like teal orturquoise or that sort of
matching outfits and so you hearit. So I naturally absorbed it
brought it into my style of sortof funerals and owned it really
(15:57):
so recognise it's quitedifferent. And I know funeral
directors and staff atcrematoriums and different
venues often try and guess aboutthe person's funeral I'm about
to do by looking at me. Sothey'll be like kind of Oh, so
you wearing kind of this andyou're wearing that like I did
one recently where my dress wascovered in dogs. And it had like
(16:20):
a pink blazer so we'll have ourdid she have a dog? Does she
like dogs? And so sort of, Ihope it brings about a different
sort of conversation aboutfunerals more approachable.
Yeah, I did a service last weekand PINK was the theme. And the
funeral directors had pink ties.
(16:41):
So my Blazer was sort of pinkand looking out across the
crematorium filled with peoplethey all approached wearing pink
in different ways. Some womenhad put like pink earrings in
pink scarf or pink coat therewere men with pink ties or a
pink flower or rose on theirblazer it was so lovely and
(17:05):
united everybody and the servicebeforehand because I arrived
early was all black. The serviceafter us was all black but it
distinguished this particularperson and their networks and
family and friends and I wasbumping into ladies in the
toilet before the service mayhave pink on our site. Are you
(17:26):
here for so in so service so Ithink colour is bold. But it
unites people it identifiespeople he brings a bit of joy in
the moment as well in funeral soyeah, I've naturally gone down
that route of showing people'spersonality through colour.
Claire (17:46):
And I guess if people you know book you like I said
you just looking at any of youryou know, website or anything or
just seeing you you can seethere's a vibrancy, you know,
even now you've got amazingyellow blazer on flowery dress,
you could see that you're gonnabring that to it. So I guess
it's not a surprise to anybodywhen they book it that you're,
you're kind of colourful, and Idesperately want to see your
wardrobe. How on earth do youkeep up with work colours?
Jen (18:08):
I do confess I have one like a work wardrobe. You open
it in it is just blazers of therainbow. Wow. And lots of
dresses have all sorts ofdifferent things. And earrings
are my major things see in thebig green lens on today. So I am
a woman who collects sort ofthings. So yeah, my internet
(18:30):
shopping is is interesting. AndI think my husband rolls his
eyes and he sees like anotherpiece of clothing arrive. I'm
not I can't help it. The themeis stars. And I saw this
incredible style dress thatwould work brilliantly. So I
think I'm getting to the pointnow where I've probably maxed
out all themes and colours, andI've got everything great,
Claire (18:51):
what a great excuse to shop. It's literally part of
your job and you can't let thesepeople down because it's like
you said it's the most veryimportant day for them. So what
a great reason to have to go outand buy buy clothes. I love it.
Have you ever come across anytime when the colour hasn't been
welcomed or appreciated? Or isit always worked its way in and
you know been a source of joy?
Jen (19:10):
Yeah, I when you meet with a family, you recognise what
sort of personality what sort oftheme of slaver they want their
service. I think the joy is whenyou work with excellent funeral
directors, they pair you up. Soyou mentioned the guys in north
Wales that they would know thetype of services that I would
(19:31):
not be rightful and I recogniseI'm not everyone's cup of tea.
So I don't think I've had a badpairing in that regards.
Sometimes it's sort of like ah,I walk away from a service going
I should have worn like babypink rather than fuchsia pink
that would have worked betterwith a flower display and so my
own thoughts. I had a slightlydifferent hue going on. That
(19:54):
most of all, I think is funeraldirectors know your, your kind
of style of service so they knowwhat to expect. I think some
people are quite relieved thatit's not all black. So services,
particularly for younger people,they seem to have by don't want
everyone in traditional blackand to have someone who's
(20:16):
comfortable leading a service inConverse trainers or all sorts
of things I've worn I've led aservice in walking boots, and
all sorts of different things.
So yeah, that personal touch.
And I think when they recogniseit's not just, Jen wears wacko
colours for no reason, theyrealise I'm reflecting the
(20:37):
person that they are there for.
Yeah,
Claire (20:40):
I mean, reading the testimonials and things I've
seen, you know, on your websiteand about you, it does stand out
that the families are soappreciative of your commitment
to, you know, the colour thatwas a favourite colour. And it's
a lovely idea. I love the factthat, you know, I spoke to at
Hickey on a previous podcastepisode again from north Wales.
And she was talking about, youknow, the ways you can do
funerals, like the big funeralsthat you can have, like she
(21:00):
talked about a circus tent and,and then the smaller ones. And
so not everybody can muster upthe imagination or the thought
or the budget to do a bigfuneral that's different to
celebrate the person. But I lovethe idea that by injecting a
tiny bit of colour, you canstill make it special in that
way and connect with the personand bring those moments of joy
because it costs nothing reallyto be able to do that. So that's
(21:20):
a really lovely way ofpersonalising a funeral at the
other end of doing somethingreally big that celebrates the
person. So and the other thing Iwas going to ask you about, you
mentioned praying and faith,which is something that's quite
key in your life, because you'remarried to a Baptist minister,
is the faith side of things.
I've spoken to people who havedone this, you have got faith
and you haven't got faith? Howdoes that interact? Because I'm
guessing, like you said, somepeople might say, faith would be
useful at this point. So ifyou've got a faith, and you're
(21:43):
leading a service, I guess, likeyou said, that can be something
you can lean on can really helpyou in those moments. But it
also might make it a lot sadderor harder at times when you see
people who haven't got somethingto lean on like that. And you
know, the same vice versa, ifyou haven't got a faith, and
you're leading people who dohave a faith, I don't know, it
must be difficult for youpersonally to kind of manage all
these things, whether you do ordon't have a faith as a
(22:03):
celebrant, so how does that kindof connect to what you do for
you? Does it help hinder?
Jen (22:09):
I think that's a really good question. Because so i Yes,
I am a Christian, and I ammarried to a minister. But as a
funeral celebrant, I come withno undertone of kind of trying
to ram any sort of faith in anysort of service, each service is
a blank page to completelyreflect the person who's died.
(22:32):
So my heart is for thosefamilies that in their time of
grief, don't want support ofchurch or a minister. So I get
the honour of going into homesthat I know my husband wouldn't
go into, because of having thatlabel. So I wouldn't describe
myself as a humanist celebrant,I describe myself as a civil
(22:56):
celebrant, that leads theservice specifically for the
person who's died. So whetherthat's a baby, it's all about
the baby. So if the parents areusing non heavenly language, so
for example, they have nowbecome a star, then the whole
service would reflect theirlanguage and talk about stars.
So it's about tuning into eachkind of tone, language, the
(23:21):
words they're using. So itdoesn't really affect my faith.
But I know, I hope I come withan undertone of empathy, love
and support. I do think about myfamilies deeply and a lot. I
send them sort of Christmascards and things like that. But
I don't come with thatundertone, that if families want
(23:42):
to include, like the Lord'sprayer or a hymn, or some do
allude to like the heavenlythings, or faith based things or
religious content, I'mcomfortable to include that I've
led services alongside ministersand bakers as well, where
families have felt conflicted,where they didn't want the
minister or a vicar to lead it.
But they wanted me to facilitateit. So I've done kind of both.
(24:06):
I've stood in for vicars whenthey've had COVID. And I've sort
of led their services. So Ibreached it a little bit, but I
don't ever come with thatundertone. And I would hate for
anyone to think like, Oh, don'tvote Jen, because she has a
faith. And I hope people seethat I don't have a stencil, but
a name goes in each one isbespoke. Yeah, I can
Claire (24:31):
see that would be something that you'd need to
clarify, because when you speakto the funeral, celebrants who
don't have a faith, they say thesame, I'm very willing to
incorporate faith based elementsand like you said the same
thing, the language of Heavenand different things. But it is
tricky, but I suppose a lot ofthe funeral based stuff or
traditional funeral stuff when Ido the verging at the local
church, even those without anyfaith or connection to the
church at all, will still choosehymns. And we'll still have a
(24:54):
lot of because it's there in thetradition of funerals. So I
guess it is something that willalways crop its head up. It's
Some point because it's, youknow, where do you go? If you
want to sing something, I guessit could be quite tricky to find
something that's not linked tosome sort of religious context.
Are there things you couldn'tplay songs, but to sing along? I
guess it would need to be a hymnmaybe.
Jen (25:12):
Yeah. And I think you can incorporate music in all sorts
of ways. And I think sounds andmusic are, particularly there's
a certain generation that havegrown up with kind of hymns and
choruses. So it would feelunloving not to include
something that perhaps wasimportant to them, they may not
have, like a professed faith,but there may be certain songs
(25:36):
that just kind of reflect theirupbringing. So I think it's
really important just to tuneinto each family, I just sort of
see it as a place of beingalongside the brokenhearted
supporting them through for thatshort period of time. But then
in my focus for what what
Claire (25:54):
are the bits that personally you do find hard
about the job are there arethere particular things that
whether it's just admin, orwhether it's actually something
emotional?
Jen (26:03):
I think some things that people presume, are really
difficult. For example, babyservices, child services, young
people who've died by suicide,those sort of really difficult
ways that they have died,particularly unexplained deaths,
that's really difficult. But forme, it's almost the opposite. I
(26:23):
kind of enjoy if that's theright word, then the most, that
dwelling with a really brokenfamily, and supporting them
through the unfathomable. Someof the services I've led for
babies and children have been myfavourite. So the things that
some people may think are thechallenging and most difficult
(26:44):
bits I enjoy almost the most.
But I guess the challenge for meis the balance of self care.
Being a mom and a wife, you canget all encompassed of sort of
death dying all the time. Solike your social media, or just
your interests, or the booksthat you read. Our little
bookshelf in the toilet has gotall sorts of different things.
(27:06):
And it's like, oh, it's all justlike Greek orientated interests
me and I realised that noteveryone, when they want a
coffee with me in a cafe, don'twant to hear about it. So it's,
it's really important to getthat balance in life, the things
outside that give you interestin life and variety, really. So
that for me is the challenge notto get too consumed by it. My
(27:31):
identity is not as a funeralcelebrant, I'm Jen. And I've got
all sorts of things that I loveand enjoy. Yeah, so that balance
is the challenge. I
Claire (27:43):
know what you mean about social media. When I started the
podcast, I started following allthese accounts about grief. And
within about three weeks, I waslike, I can't do this. It's just
it's too heavy. I need Iactually need to see the videos
of raccoons running around andstuff to kind of let the light
relief because I can't do it allthe time. But when you're drawn
to those big subjects issomething like something that
(28:03):
interests you, you do have to bea bit careful of self care and
not not getting too far downthat road. And some people
because
Jen (28:10):
they know my job. It's their opportunity to ask
questions. So they finally thinkah, someone approachable. I can
ask this question, like, whatreally happens there? What can I
actually do? So you have to tunein socially when people are
intrigued, because they'rethinking about perhaps their own
service and, or someone aroundthem is unwell. And it's making
(28:33):
them reassess things. So it'sgood to chat. But it's also good
to chat about other topics likemy love of the crown or
different certain subjects inlife kind of cake. Yep.
Chocolate, those sort of thing.
Yeah. Trying to run
Claire (28:52):
a we're all trying to run so difficult. I blame the
weather. When you look back atyour career During this so far.
Are there any particularhighlights that stand out as
like so far? That's the momentthat really kind of comes to
mind first? Yeah,
Jen (29:05):
I think for me, they are the services that as people walk
out at the end, they've peoplehave approached me asking
questions like, Ah, how long didyou know that person for? I'm
usually the one in the room thathas never met the person who's
died, but to reflect it as if Ido know that person because I've
(29:25):
used the language that thefamily have shared with me, that
is a true highlight. So for me,it's like, Yes, I managed to
kind of really grasp thepersonality and character of
that person. So they're alwayshighlights. There have been some
services that I will neverforget. Because it just felt
like you hit the nail on thehead of the right tone, the
(29:48):
right thing the family wanted.
There's a few families that keepin contact. There was one that I
remember meeting with them andthey said to me straight away,
we want the scene to Boy, weneed this service, high tempo,
really joyful. And as I sort ofworked with them on this
service, but on the day, I wasso nervous because I thought, I
(30:08):
know in that moment,particularly the committal
moment that the joy might not bepresent, kind of, it's okay if
the tears fall, and I didn'twant this service to be fake. So
to weave in sort of humour andjoy, and actually weave it down
into sort of grief, all that.
(30:30):
And during the committal, theywanted a particular song and
everyone up on their feetdancing. Wow. So to try and
steer environment in the funeralservice to get everyone up on
their feet, dancing this song,and they were dancing and
clapping. And it worked in thefamily. On the way out, I
remember the young son sort ofjust grabbing me, and just said
(30:54):
that was just what we allwanted. And it was that sigh of
light. Oh, I'm so glad because Ihave been trying to be
sensitive, but kind of followthrough exactly what they
wanted. So the service where wewere dancing down the aisle was
pretty amazing. There have beensome themed services that have
been wonderful like a Christmasone that was no any Christmas,
(31:19):
because a person who died wasthe local Santa. So was wearing
head to toe Santa outfit withinthe coffin. And these two black
wellies were in front of thecoffee. And so everyone came in
Christmas jumpers. And so when ascene is really strong, they're
just unforgettable. Yeah,moments of just magic I had a
(31:43):
grandchild who had Downsyndrome, helped me with a
service and as trying to workwith the family, and how could
we include this grandchild?
appropriately. So I asked if thegrandchild will press the button
for the curtain. So I gave himthis moment. And as he came up
to the microphone with me,before he pressed the button, he
just shouted and raised his handwhen five, three, wow, press the
(32:07):
button or went by Grant all thisstuff. And it was just, it was
wonderful, because the wholeroom knew in and it was just
perfect. But I couldn't havescripted that but I knew his
voice and his involvement wasreally important to the family.
So sometimes the best bits arenot over thought. Other times,
(32:31):
you've really thought throughthe details. And they've worked
well. So yeah, I love so the onethat I described before about
pink in everywhere and wearingpink, the lady has chosen for
her ashes to go into space. Soit was kind of space themed
hours in a star dress. Andsometimes they're so unique. You
(32:51):
can really run with a theme. Andwhen you see people walk out,
and they go that was just sothen that for me absolute
highlight. Yeah,
Claire (33:05):
that must feel. Yeah, knowing you've given that one me
what a gift to give somebody.
And that is not easy to do. Likeyou said, people might picture a
joyful funeral. But like yousaid, you know, you've got the
experience of actually being inthe room and knowing what that
atmosphere is like and to shiftit to that is very difficult if
it's not there already. So yeah,that's amazing. I think what a
lot of people would fear aboutyour job would be just the
public speaking in itself. Haveyou got moments when you look
(33:27):
back and you've you've made amistake that you kind of that
haunts you slightly, and I knowyou have counselling so that I
know you'll have worked throughthis. And I won't be triggering
anything too. Too horrific.
Hopefully. I
Jen (33:38):
think every service I walk away with I could have tweaked
this perhaps next time I woulddo it like that. I think it's
just the perfectionist isn't itof wanting to make sure it was
right. So there can be nigglythings. I remember leading a
service once known as a gorgeousblack and white photo projected
on the wall behind me. And Idon't I don't book the media
(34:02):
side of things. The funeraldirector does that. And I lead
this service. And it wasn'tuntil the end that they came to
me and said that wasn't ourloved one projected on the wall.
So I have never had a clue. Sothere's things like that, that
I'm like, Oh no, but the familylaughed it off and thought it
was hilarious. And so we kind ofgot away with it. All right. But
(34:22):
so there's moments like thatwhere I do beat myself up. Like
if the tech system doesn't wantto play ball and tweaks like
that or you plan something butit's always thinking on your
feet and being flexible. So eventhough I've planned a certain
amount of time, you have tothink on your feet in that
moment to flex things movethings around. That is always
(34:45):
quite challenging. Yeah, there'sthere's always things to learn
as well just when you thinkyou've met a family and you go
ah, this was similar to lasttime it won't be is completely
unique. So starting at acompletely blank page with every
family helps when asking goodquestions, and clarifying
(35:06):
questions just to make sure thatyou haven't presumed something.
And actually, that wasn'timportant to the family. So it's
always the double checking,triple checking, and that sort
of thing. It's
Claire (35:17):
amazing how resilient families are. I mean, not all I
know, some people would bereally upset if something went
wrong at a funeral. But theamount of stories I've heard
where things have gone wrong,and people have, it's been one
of the highlighting memories.
And like you said, they've said,oh, so and so whoever they'd
lost would love that. They'veloved that this went wrong. I
was at a funeral recently. And Ifelt so sorry for them, because
as they left the church, itabsolutely tipped it down. And
(35:37):
they were just going into thecemetery to bury this grandma.
And it had been dry for thewhole service, a timing was just
so so bad. I felt so sorry forthem, they all got drenched. But
they came back in afterwards,just like running into the porch
of the church. And I could hearthem all saying, oh, she'd love
that. That was her, she did thaton purpose, that immediately
turned it into something thatwill be part of that the memory
(36:00):
of that service. And so I lovethat people do that people get
so worried about things goingwrong. Same with weddings,
really, but ultimately, theytend to be some of the best
memories sometimes. So it's nicethat people can turn those
things around. Like they're notalways
Jen (36:14):
Yeah, you hope that any sort of things are given a bit
of grace, particularly theunexpected. And you do try and
work very closely with a funeraldirector in the venue and lots
of quick decision making andteamwork. But yeah, I do hope
some families when things havehappened, that they they embrace
it, and not take it too deeply.
Because I think my deepest heartis never to, I want to help
(36:36):
people in their grief and theirprocess. So if they experience a
good funeral, that reflectstheir person, it will help them
in grief. And particularly forchildren and young people who've
never experienced a funeralbefore. If I can journey
alongside them, and give them agood first experience of a
(36:57):
funeral, it will set them up forthe future. So there's always
that you want it to be perfect.
So you can beat yourself up abit. And I do have to kind of
give myself for talking tosometimes afterwards and go Why
am I kind of worried about thislittle detail? Perhaps the
(37:17):
family didn't notice that. I didthis when I was hoping to do
this. You've just got to trustthe process yet and talk to
families afterwards. Have
Claire (37:27):
you got any thoughts about what you would want for
your funeral?
Jen (37:29):
Oh, I changed my mind a lot. The more kind of families I
meet, I think some peoplepresume I'd be perhaps really
out there and do somethingoutrageous. But some of the
services I've led have beenreally kind of intimate with
only a few. But it was the wordsource certain symbolisms that
(37:53):
were done that are precious, Ithink it would definitely have
to include a Lion King song ofmy family know that I did a lot
of travelling around Africa. Andso that's a big part of my heart
and Lion King. My kids knowthat. So it's, I think it's
those little things everyoneshould walk away with a white
chocolate limbal horse. And Ithink kind of Yeah, Black could
(38:16):
probably be banned. And mostpeople associate mustard and
purple with me. So they'llprobably wear those colours. But
I changed my mind quite a bitsometimes that I go from one way
where I go, I'll be cremated.
And I'd love to be scatteredfrom a hot air balloon across
the African savannah and my kidsjoke sort of logo mom will do
that. And then there are othertimes like the the woodland in
(38:39):
north Wales that you went to.
And I just think that place isjust magical as an actual burial
ground and then I go model loveto like dwell there. So I
changed my mind a little bit.
But I think it depends on kindof perhaps when I die the
circumstances but I'vedefinitely put a few ideas in my
(39:00):
children's heads. And they'repretty used to all things death
over the breakfast table. Sothey don't think they're mums to
wacko, particularly when I turnup at the school playground
wearing an outrageous colour.
Claire (39:16):
I'm literally picturing like the Western Lion King cast
at the front now with all theirgear or even in the forest. You
could do it in the forest innorth Wales and total forest
through the curry throwers.
They're all singing that will beamazing. The total forest when
we went I hadn't seen anythinglike that before and you're
right is absolutely beautiful.
You just I was like well, youknow, can anyone be buried
(39:37):
there? It's nowhere near where Ilive but wow, what a place to
just rest everything about itwas just beautiful. I loved it.
I fell in love with it. But itdoesn't seem like there's many
of them around. They seem quiterare at the moment which is a
shame because it was lovely useof
Jen (39:50):
land and it was an established woodlands which is
different. You're kind of beingburied amongst the trees rather
than buried and then the tree isplanted and then it will look on
Amazing in like 1020 years timeYeah, so no the bird song in
that place. I've led servicesthere in all weathers. There's
something so magical. I lead alot with AD. So that's a very
(40:12):
special place and a very specialperson to me. Really?
Claire (40:15):
Yeah. Isn't your lovely team over there? The people in
that area are well catered forwhen it comes to funerals.
Lovely people. I mean, that'sthe only people I've met. So I
haven't got any comparison foranywhere else. But yeah, they
were all very, very welcoming,very friendly. And yeah, just
very caring really, which was,which was lovely, too. So, for
my last question, I'm buildingthis tool shed of metaphorical
(40:37):
tools to help people you know,through loss and grief and to
understand it more and toprepare for it really. So the
question I want to ask you isrelated to the colour because
it's such a part of your brand.
So what kind of tool do youthink colour is when it comes to
funerals or even processinggrief?
Jen (40:53):
I've been thinking about this and sharing it with my
family, my children came up withall sorts of tools in a shed
that were quite appropriate. Onesaid shaves or kind of leaf
blower and all sorts of things.
But I was thinking that my ownoffice is the garden shed that
we've moved to in the Manse. Andwe were decorating it kind of
(41:15):
boarded it out for me, and wepainted it white, just wasn't
me. So I bought a tin of mustardpaint. And the floor is mustard.
The walls are mustard, theceiling is mustard. So it is my
little box of sunshine. But itstruck me when I went to the DIY
(41:36):
store locally, this machine thatI needed to ask for my coloured
paint to be created. I couldn'tget it directly off the shelf.
And also this incredible machinewhere they sort of put white and
it squirts a bit of this colourand a bit green and a bit of
this and you look at it and youthink those colours on in
mustard, kind of such a uniquemakeup of this colour, and then
(42:00):
it sort of shapes and mixes andgives you this personalised pot
of paint. So I think that wouldbe my tool for you, not just the
tub of unique paint that isindividual and unique to the
person but it's the process thatit goes to to become unique. It
starts as this white in a paint,but it needs a little square of
(42:26):
different colours to form thatcolour. So if you've got room in
your metaphorical shed for anactual paint mixing machine,
that would be amazing.
Claire (42:40):
A paint mixer, and of course I can fit in because
metaphorical sheds are veryaccommodating, and basically
just grow as you need them to.
For this analogy, it's almost ashame that paint colours don't
start with black instead ofwhite, that common funeral death
colour. And then Jen could addher colours to it to change the
standard funeral colour to makeit something colourful and
unique to the person that'sdied. But that's not how paint
works.
(43:00):
Anyway, if you want to find outmore about Jen, you can visit
www.JWcelebrancy.co.uk. And I'llput a link to that and her
social media in the show notes.
And it's well worth checking outnot just for the Herman video
that she did, but also for thebeautiful colours you'll see
stamped all over her branding.
Thank you so much for thisconversation, Jen. As always,
chats like these really allow meto dream bigger when it comes to
(43:21):
thinking about how I'd like myown funeral to be but also
reminds me how creative we canbe when remembering family and
friends through their funeralstoo. My grandma loved the colour
yellow and owls. So I asked oneof my friends to make all the
immediate family a yellowtextile owl brooch to wear at
her funeral. It's given mesomething I really cherish about
that day and made it veryspecial. But having started the
(43:41):
podcast since then, I wish I'dpush to go even bigger with the
yellow theme. I think she'd havereally loved that.
So thanks for listening to TheSilent why podcast. If you've
got a subject you'd like me tochat to an expert on, please get
in touch via social media or thewebsite or just email me:
thesilentwhy@gmail.com and let'schat...
Hello there, and thanks for joining me for another
episode of Let's Chat on TheSilent Why. A podcast exploring
how and where we can find hopethrough grief and loss. I'm
Claire Sandys, host, blogwriter, published writer... yep,
that's right. In fact, the bookI'm a contributor to came out
last week in the UK. So checkout 'Praying Through
Infertility' by Sheridan Voyseyto see more about that. And I'm
(00:21):
also now a Herman maker. Yep, mylittle podcast has expanded to
handmade products that you canbuy for people in your life that
are going through a hard time,whether it's a bereavement,
hospital treatment, anxiety,stress, loneliness, anything
else. Herman is the perfectcompanion to send your loved
one. And you can find out moreabout that at
www.thehermancompany.com. I'llput the link in the show notes.
(00:44):
Today's Let's Chat guest, who'sactually already the proud owner
of her own Herman and you cansee that on her social media
because she did a lovely videoabout it, is the very colourful,
and the very wonderful, JenWatson.
In these Let's Chat episodes, Italked to a guest who has
experience or expertise in aparticular area of loss. And
from each guest, I'm building ametaphorical tool shed of
(01:04):
equipment to help us face andget through loss and grief. So
the last question I asked themis, what their tool is, and
today to the begun, in fact, I'mgoing to expand my shed to fit
it in. Fortunately, you can dothat very easily with
metaphorical sheds. So back totoday's guest, Jen Watson is a
funeral celebrant in Kent,although she was actually
somewhere else when we firstmade contact and even had a
(01:27):
different name. Now, she's not awanted woman by the police or
anything, but should explainmore when we chat. Jen set up JW
celebrancy in 2021, afterqualifying as a funeral
celebrant and has cultivated avery unique and vibrant way to
brand her services, which I'vebeen eager to chat to her about
for a while now. As her websitesays she offers empathetic
personal and colourful servicesfor bereaved families to help
(01:49):
them share their loved onesfinal life story. I've spoken to
a few funeral celebrants andfuneral directors on the podcast
so far. And I can't believe thevariety and uniqueness they all
bring to planning, hosting andleading funerals of all shapes
and sizes. But it's also reallyinteresting to hear the stories
they have, and how theypersonally process and deal with
(02:10):
being around grief in this way.
This is a great conversationabout how Jen loves to bring out
cherished colours in any funeralshe's part of, I know it's a
chat that's gonna make yousmile, laugh well up or maybe
even shed a tear because it'sjust wonderful. So grab a cup of
tea or coffee or maybe a whitehot chocolate if it's as cold
where you are as it is here andrelax with me and Jen, as we
(02:30):
chat about adding colour tofunerals.
Jen (02:37):
Well, I'm Jen Watson, and I'm a funeral celebrant. I'm
nickname Jenny Wren as mychildhood nickname. And I'm
based in birchington in Kent, soleave services across the sort
of family area as it's knownlocally. So I'm known for
leading personal and colourfulfuneral services.
Claire (02:59):
Lovely and why Jenny Wren where's that come from? Ah,
so
Jen (03:03):
yeah, I think most journeys are known as Jenny Wrens kind of
affectionately. And so I justgrew up with my mum sort of
naming me sort of Jenny Wren, orif we saw a wren bird she'd
below those are genuine. Soyeah, sort of carried on. And
that's why my business logo isrendered on a book. So it's a
(03:25):
book where one side is black,one side is white. One to
represent the sort of the personwho's died or the child or baby
that's died and the other thekind of family and friends they
have to just keep turning pageskeep living their life, and
wrens. Even though they are tinybirds, they are known for being
(03:46):
one of the loudest. So as afuneral celebrant, I am really a
family's voice piece as I get toshare their loved ones life
story. So that's the Jenny Wrensort of part of me.
Claire (03:59):
I love when logos have got so much meaning to them like
that. There's something reallylovely I heard someone say
recently there should always bea story behind logos and
branding as a perfect example ofpulling it all together and so
personal as well.
Jen (04:10):
And people catch on to it.
They'd send me little Ren thingsor thank you cards were Rennes
on and I got a painted rockrecently and the lady had spent
ages painting like a ran on therock and so I think people pick
it out as they're out and about.
Claire (04:26):
I also saw on your website that you mentioned you
like lint white chocolate, isthat something that you can do
that because you put it on thewebsite. I've
Jen (04:33):
only ever had one white chocolate basket get but that is
my downfall. White chocolateballs straight from the fridge
there my ad zone calendar go to.
Claire (04:44):
So when I first connected with you, it was
through our trip to Wales, youwere in a different place
different country and you had adifferent name. So you've had a
lot going on since we firstconnected so just tell us a
little bit about that kind ofmove and what's been happening
because I know some peoplelistening to this will have
known you in Wales and willprobably be wanting to You know,
what's happening with you now?
Jen (05:01):
That's right. So I first connected with you as Jenny
Wilkinson was my surname. So I'mnow Watson. And I was born and
brought up in north Wales. Sothat was you entered my home
place really and connected withthe funeral directors and
celebrants and they woodlandburial ground as well. So you
(05:22):
kind of brushed it againstpeople that I knew well, but I
knew I was in transition movingout of the area, as my husband
got a job as the senior ministerin a church in Burlington Kent.
So we have relocated in August.
So we've settled the kids in socomplete fresh start and fresh
start for me as a funeralcelebrant too, because I lost my
(05:44):
kind of go to funeral directorsand families. So I've had to
start kind of from scratch andbe the newbie again in a brand
new area. So my wheels arebeginning to turn now. So it's
been a good positive move.
Claire (06:00):
That's a lot of change a lot of things to navigate there
in one go. So tell us a bitabout the funeral celebrant
life. When did that start? Haveyou always been one? Is that a
new thing? How did that comeabout? Well,
Jen (06:09):
my background is in children and young people in
counselling. So I was back innorth Wales one of the first
teenagers aged 16 to be trainedas a Childline counsellor, at
the time it was based in realnorth Wales. So I got quite used
to being on the phone, hearingpeople's stories in their worst
(06:30):
moments and tuning in thatactive listening. So those sorts
of skills as a young teenagercarried through lots of
different work that involvedpeople, people on their most
difficult days, counselling,volunteering and family based
things. And so during thepandemic, I had the big life
change. And I was actuallylistening to a podcast where a
(06:54):
pastor had retrained as afuneral celebrant, and I hadn't
a clue what a funeral celebrantwas at that point. And as she
began to describe how shesupports families, when they
don't want a minister, it wasliterally as if a light bulb
went off inside me. And it waslike, this is self employment.
(07:15):
This is all my passions of kindof hearing people meeting new
people, the creative element ofputting something together, the
presenting something, all thosedifferent things coming together
really. So yeah, I completelychanged my life at that moment,
trained through the pandemic,while the kids were being sort
(07:36):
of homeschooled. And yeah, beganin north Wales. You
Claire (07:41):
know, I'm sure there's some people listening who just
don't understand wanting tospend most of your time around
funerals, grieving people lostdeath, very sad stories and
situations. What is it about itthat drew you to it? And what
what do you love about it?
Jen (07:56):
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think
it's the dwelling with someonehaving that kind of right to
just be present with them intheir pain. It's a real honour
and privilege just to be thereon their worst day. And some of
the services I've led and theheart brokenness, in that
(08:17):
moment, just to be present, likeparents whose child has died,
it's just them and you in thatvenue, it's just such an
honouring that it kind of Yeah,that active listening, that
being there, sometimes no wordsare necessary. So my heart has
always for the brokenhearted, ontheir difficult days, whether
it's listening to them beingthere, and also the people who
(08:42):
just don't have hope or faith inthat time, either. I know with
firearms, going throughdifficult things and know what I
would lean on what I would do.
And actually, when you're aroundpeople whose hope has gone, and
they're in trauma, and have gotbig questions, it is a real
honour just to be present. Iremember one bereaved wife
saying to me, I guess at thispoint, faith would be helpful,
(09:04):
but she just couldn't lean onit. It didn't work for her. So
for me, it's that deep down,just being there, being present
in the grease in the painwithout judgement, and just
listening. Yeah,
Claire (09:19):
I've spoken to a few people who've worked in
different areas like this withpeople that are really heavily
grieving. And there seems to bethis assumption that if you do
that kind of job, it means thatyou're tougher, you don't get
affected by these things. Otherpeople sort of say, Oh, I could
never do it. I'd get tooemotional. You know, and I don't
think having spoken to a lot ofpeople in these kinds of jobs.
That's the case. They're not anytougher than anyone else. They
(09:40):
have got ways of dealing with itand coping with it. But it
doesn't mean they're notaffected by these situations. So
how do you cope with theemotion?
Jen (09:46):
I am not a robot. I have deep emotions and probably quite
an empathetic person. So I canfeel things quite sort of
deeply. If I were to go numb inthis job, I think I'd Need to
change jobs. So those emotionsthat I feel around families are
keeping me grounded. But I dohave a sort of professional
(10:09):
voice on my shoulder that kindof says to me, this is not like
your grief. But I do cry a lot.
There are moments where I walkaway from a situation and I just
go, this is absolutely rubbish.
And I can't help but feelemotional. It does affect you
deeply. And grateful. I've gotpeople around me that support
(10:32):
me, a husband, who lets me sortof process things without
needing to know ins and outs anddetails, I can come back from a
family and just go, Oh, this oneis just cut me deep. And he just
listens and empathises. But hecan't fix it, he can't get
involved. And I, I lean on a lotof sorts of counsellors myself,
(10:54):
having sort of trained throughthat way. So I think that's
really important that self care,taking breathers between things,
and everyone has their differentthing that helps them top up.
Again, I'm quite an outdoorsygirl. So just the things like
going for a walk, journaling,praying, all sorts of things,
and white chocolate limp balls.
All these different things usebut it's not easy. And I think
(11:19):
if you approach it with a hardheart, you're not going to
support families very well.
Claire (11:27):
Yeah, that's a really good explanation of, of the
difference between being hardand actually dealing with it in
a healthy way, as well. Becauseit's really lovely to hear that
you do let yourself cry. And youdo let yourself feel those
emotions. Because I think for alot of people in these kinds of
jobs, especially the menprobably have had that pressure
of not being emotional, theysuppress it, and then it just
builds up and it comes outsomewhere else. And when we
(11:49):
interviewed Jonathan Hardy, thefuneral director, he said that
he you know, he's now allowinghimself more to if he if he
wants to shed a tear, he sheds atear for it. He doesn't repress
that anymore. I think that'sreally healthy, but very
difficult to do, especially asBritish people. It's stiff upper
lip, and you know, don't showweakness. So it's really healthy
to hear you're doing that andcounselling as well, you know,
one amazing place to be able toprocess things. And I think
(12:11):
we're getting a little bitbetter at that. Yeah.
Jen (12:13):
And it's asking, why was that a trigger for you. So I did
a service once where it wasabsolutely fine. And in that
moment of committal, and I saidthe person's full name for the
final time, I realised it wasthe same first two names as my
mom. And I had not realisedpreparing the service. But in
(12:33):
that moment, it caught methinking, this could be kind of
my mum, and I had to sort of inthat moment, be like, it's not
my mom, it's not my mom is okay,got through it. But then after
the service, it was like, oh, Ineed to just cry that out,
because it triggered. And Ithink that's where professional
help is really important.
Because it does sometimes pickthose things from your past. And
(12:54):
it would not be good for me tosay to that family, oh, kind of
those names are exactly the sameas my mom, though, he has to be
very sort of tuned in andsensitive as well.
Claire (13:06):
Well, thank you for doing this kind of work.
Everyone who I've spoken to whodoes it says it's a privilege.
But at the same time you'recarrying, you know, the cost of
it each time you walk into thesesituations, and having to be
professional, put your own stuffto one side while you do that.
And, you know, that's that's notan easy thing to do. And a lot
of people wouldn't be able to doit. So it's a real gifting as
well. So it's lovely to hearthat people can do it. And one
of the things I'm reallyinterested in specifically with
(13:28):
you is that you can't reallylook at any of your branding or
website or photos without seeingjust big splashes of bright
colours. So tell me a bit aboutwhy you've chosen that and how
that kind of is incorporatedinto how you do your funeral
celebrant sing that word, and
Jen (13:46):
a bread scene. Yeah. I am a daughter of an artist. So I
think as a child, I naturallyobserved colouring things and
the changes of seasons. And asmy mum would notice things and
create things, colour was alwayssort of part of my life. And
(14:06):
I've got like deep memories of achild of so like mixing the
primary colours and secondarycolours and being determined
trying to make purple and notmake it go brown. And all this
sort of paint mixing andmemories of sort of painting
walls colours, where you'd go tothe DIY stall and you choose
(14:26):
your colour. And this machinewould make it up for you with a
bit of this and a bit of that.
So colour, I think is a naturalthing as part of me. So when I
approached funerals, is fairlyblack. So I, I tried to be black
and traditional and I'mrespectful and all that but I
found I just wasn't me. And sowhen I met with families and you
(14:52):
hear their stories and you findout their favourite colours or
all sorts of things colouredJust came to the forefront and I
would naturally choose from mywardrobe, their favourite colour
as part of my outfit or my likeblazer or if it was a football
team, personalise their serviceby wearing the football team
(15:13):
colours. So colour I think justnaturally started to feed in so
I I don't think I've ever led aservice now head to toe in black
Wow, it's become something I'vebeen known for. And I think some
people appreciate it. SometimesI wear colours as a surprise. I
won't say to a family I willwear green because it's their
(15:33):
favourite colour. But I hearabout kind of what colour
flowers they've chosen anddifferent things like that. And
often a colour comes as aforefront. And they talk about
oh, she always wore like teal orturquoise or that sort of
matching outfits and so you hearit. So I naturally absorbed it
brought it into my style of sortof funerals and owned it really
(15:57):
so recognise it's quitedifferent. And I know funeral
directors and staff atcrematoriums and different
venues often try and guess aboutthe person's funeral I'm about
to do by looking at me. Sothey'll be like kind of Oh, so
you wearing kind of this andyou're wearing that like I did
one recently where my dress wascovered in dogs. And it had like
(16:20):
a pink blazer so we'll have ourdid she have a dog? Does she
like dogs? And so sort of, Ihope it brings about a different
sort of conversation aboutfunerals more approachable.
Yeah, I did a service last weekand PINK was the theme. And the
funeral directors had pink ties.
(16:41):
So my Blazer was sort of pinkand looking out across the
crematorium filled with peoplethey all approached wearing pink
in different ways. Some womenhad put like pink earrings in
pink scarf or pink coat therewere men with pink ties or a
pink flower or rose on theirblazer it was so lovely and
(17:05):
united everybody and the servicebeforehand because I arrived
early was all black. The serviceafter us was all black but it
distinguished this particularperson and their networks and
family and friends and I wasbumping into ladies in the
toilet before the service mayhave pink on our site. Are you
(17:26):
here for so in so service so Ithink colour is bold. But it
unites people it identifiespeople he brings a bit of joy in
the moment as well in funeral soyeah, I've naturally gone down
that route of showing people'spersonality through colour.
Claire (17:46):
And I guess if people you know book you like I said
you just looking at any of youryou know, website or anything or
just seeing you you can seethere's a vibrancy, you know,
even now you've got amazingyellow blazer on flowery dress,
you could see that you're gonnabring that to it. So I guess
it's not a surprise to anybodywhen they book it that you're,
you're kind of colourful, and Idesperately want to see your
wardrobe. How on earth do youkeep up with work colours?
Jen (18:08):
I do confess I have one like a work wardrobe. You open
it in it is just blazers of therainbow. Wow. And lots of
dresses have all sorts ofdifferent things. And earrings
are my major things see in thebig green lens on today. So I am
a woman who collects sort ofthings. So yeah, my internet
(18:30):
shopping is is interesting. AndI think my husband rolls his
eyes and he sees like anotherpiece of clothing arrive. I'm
not I can't help it. The themeis stars. And I saw this
incredible style dress thatwould work brilliantly. So I
think I'm getting to the pointnow where I've probably maxed
out all themes and colours, andI've got everything great,
Claire (18:51):
what a great excuse to shop. It's literally part of
your job and you can't let thesepeople down because it's like
you said it's the most veryimportant day for them. So what
a great reason to have to go outand buy buy clothes. I love it.
Have you ever come across anytime when the colour hasn't been
welcomed or appreciated? Or isit always worked its way in and
you know been a source of joy?
Jen (19:10):
Yeah, I when you meet with a family, you recognise what
sort of personality what sort oftheme of slaver they want their
service. I think the joy is whenyou work with excellent funeral
directors, they pair you up. Soyou mentioned the guys in north
Wales that they would know thetype of services that I would
(19:31):
not be rightful and I recogniseI'm not everyone's cup of tea.
So I don't think I've had a badpairing in that regards.
Sometimes it's sort of like ah,I walk away from a service going
I should have worn like babypink rather than fuchsia pink
that would have worked betterwith a flower display and so my
own thoughts. I had a slightlydifferent hue going on. That
(19:54):
most of all, I think is funeraldirectors know your, your kind
of style of service so they knowwhat to expect. I think some
people are quite relieved thatit's not all black. So services,
particularly for younger people,they seem to have by don't want
everyone in traditional blackand to have someone who's
(20:16):
comfortable leading a service inConverse trainers or all sorts
of things I've worn I've led aservice in walking boots, and
all sorts of different things.
So yeah, that personal touch.
And I think when they recogniseit's not just, Jen wears wacko
colours for no reason, theyrealise I'm reflecting the
(20:37):
person that they are there for.
Yeah,
Claire (20:40):
I mean, reading the testimonials and things I've
seen, you know, on your websiteand about you, it does stand out
that the families are soappreciative of your commitment
to, you know, the colour thatwas a favourite colour. And it's
a lovely idea. I love the factthat, you know, I spoke to at
Hickey on a previous podcastepisode again from north Wales.
And she was talking about, youknow, the ways you can do
funerals, like the big funeralsthat you can have, like she
(21:00):
talked about a circus tent and,and then the smaller ones. And
so not everybody can muster upthe imagination or the thought
or the budget to do a bigfuneral that's different to
celebrate the person. But I lovethe idea that by injecting a
tiny bit of colour, you canstill make it special in that
way and connect with the personand bring those moments of joy
because it costs nothing reallyto be able to do that. So that's
(21:20):
a really lovely way ofpersonalising a funeral at the
other end of doing somethingreally big that celebrates the
person. So and the other thing Iwas going to ask you about, you
mentioned praying and faith,which is something that's quite
key in your life, because you'remarried to a Baptist minister,
is the faith side of things.
I've spoken to people who havedone this, you have got faith
and you haven't got faith? Howdoes that interact? Because I'm
guessing, like you said, somepeople might say, faith would be
useful at this point. So ifyou've got a faith, and you're
(21:43):
leading a service, I guess, likeyou said, that can be something
you can lean on can really helpyou in those moments. But it
also might make it a lot sadderor harder at times when you see
people who haven't got somethingto lean on like that. And you
know, the same vice versa, ifyou haven't got a faith, and
you're leading people who dohave a faith, I don't know, it
must be difficult for youpersonally to kind of manage all
these things, whether you do ordon't have a faith as a
(22:03):
celebrant, so how does that kindof connect to what you do for
you? Does it help hinder?
Jen (22:09):
I think that's a really good question. Because so i Yes,
I am a Christian, and I ammarried to a minister. But as a
funeral celebrant, I come withno undertone of kind of trying
to ram any sort of faith in anysort of service, each service is
a blank page to completelyreflect the person who's died.
(22:32):
So my heart is for thosefamilies that in their time of
grief, don't want support ofchurch or a minister. So I get
the honour of going into homesthat I know my husband wouldn't
go into, because of having thatlabel. So I wouldn't describe
myself as a humanist celebrant,I describe myself as a civil
(22:56):
celebrant, that leads theservice specifically for the
person who's died. So whetherthat's a baby, it's all about
the baby. So if the parents areusing non heavenly language, so
for example, they have nowbecome a star, then the whole
service would reflect theirlanguage and talk about stars.
So it's about tuning into eachkind of tone, language, the
(23:21):
words they're using. So itdoesn't really affect my faith.
But I know, I hope I come withan undertone of empathy, love
and support. I do think about myfamilies deeply and a lot. I
send them sort of Christmascards and things like that. But
I don't come with thatundertone, that if families want
(23:42):
to include, like the Lord'sprayer or a hymn, or some do
allude to like the heavenlythings, or faith based things or
religious content, I'mcomfortable to include that I've
led services alongside ministersand bakers as well, where
families have felt conflicted,where they didn't want the
minister or a vicar to lead it.
But they wanted me to facilitateit. So I've done kind of both.
(24:06):
I've stood in for vicars whenthey've had COVID. And I've sort
of led their services. So Ibreached it a little bit, but I
don't ever come with thatundertone. And I would hate for
anyone to think like, Oh, don'tvote Jen, because she has a
faith. And I hope people seethat I don't have a stencil, but
a name goes in each one isbespoke. Yeah, I can
Claire (24:31):
see that would be something that you'd need to
clarify, because when you speakto the funeral, celebrants who
don't have a faith, they say thesame, I'm very willing to
incorporate faith based elementsand like you said the same
thing, the language of Heavenand different things. But it is
tricky, but I suppose a lot ofthe funeral based stuff or
traditional funeral stuff when Ido the verging at the local
church, even those without anyfaith or connection to the
church at all, will still choosehymns. And we'll still have a
(24:54):
lot of because it's there in thetradition of funerals. So I
guess it is something that willalways crop its head up. It's
Some point because it's, youknow, where do you go? If you
want to sing something, I guessit could be quite tricky to find
something that's not linked tosome sort of religious context.
Are there things you couldn'tplay songs, but to sing along? I
guess it would need to be a hymnmaybe.
Jen (25:12):
Yeah. And I think you can incorporate music in all sorts
of ways. And I think sounds andmusic are, particularly there's
a certain generation that havegrown up with kind of hymns and
choruses. So it would feelunloving not to include
something that perhaps wasimportant to them, they may not
have, like a professed faith,but there may be certain songs
(25:36):
that just kind of reflect theirupbringing. So I think it's
really important just to tuneinto each family, I just sort of
see it as a place of beingalongside the brokenhearted
supporting them through for thatshort period of time. But then
in my focus for what what
Claire (25:54):
are the bits that personally you do find hard
about the job are there arethere particular things that
whether it's just admin, orwhether it's actually something
emotional?
Jen (26:03):
I think some things that people presume, are really
difficult. For example, babyservices, child services, young
people who've died by suicide,those sort of really difficult
ways that they have died,particularly unexplained deaths,
that's really difficult. But forme, it's almost the opposite. I
(26:23):
kind of enjoy if that's theright word, then the most, that
dwelling with a really brokenfamily, and supporting them
through the unfathomable. Someof the services I've led for
babies and children have been myfavourite. So the things that
some people may think are thechallenging and most difficult
(26:44):
bits I enjoy almost the most.
But I guess the challenge for meis the balance of self care.
Being a mom and a wife, you canget all encompassed of sort of
death dying all the time. Solike your social media, or just
your interests, or the booksthat you read. Our little
bookshelf in the toilet has gotall sorts of different things.
(27:06):
And it's like, oh, it's all justlike Greek orientated interests
me and I realised that noteveryone, when they want a
coffee with me in a cafe, don'twant to hear about it. So it's,
it's really important to getthat balance in life, the things
outside that give you interestin life and variety, really. So
that for me is the challenge notto get too consumed by it. My
(27:31):
identity is not as a funeralcelebrant, I'm Jen. And I've got
all sorts of things that I loveand enjoy. Yeah, so that balance
is the challenge. I
Claire (27:43):
know what you mean about social media. When I started the
podcast, I started following allthese accounts about grief. And
within about three weeks, I waslike, I can't do this. It's just
it's too heavy. I need Iactually need to see the videos
of raccoons running around andstuff to kind of let the light
relief because I can't do it allthe time. But when you're drawn
to those big subjects issomething like something that
(28:03):
interests you, you do have to bea bit careful of self care and
not not getting too far downthat road. And some people
because
Jen (28:10):
they know my job. It's their opportunity to ask
questions. So they finally thinkah, someone approachable. I can
ask this question, like, whatreally happens there? What can I
actually do? So you have to tunein socially when people are
intrigued, because they'rethinking about perhaps their own
service and, or someone aroundthem is unwell. And it's making
(28:33):
them reassess things. So it'sgood to chat. But it's also good
to chat about other topics likemy love of the crown or
different certain subjects inlife kind of cake. Yep.
Chocolate, those sort of thing.
Yeah. Trying to run
Claire (28:52):
a we're all trying to run so difficult. I blame the
weather. When you look back atyour career During this so far.
Are there any particularhighlights that stand out as
like so far? That's the momentthat really kind of comes to
mind first? Yeah,
Jen (29:05):
I think for me, they are the services that as people walk
out at the end, they've peoplehave approached me asking
questions like, Ah, how long didyou know that person for? I'm
usually the one in the room thathas never met the person who's
died, but to reflect it as if Ido know that person because I've
(29:25):
used the language that thefamily have shared with me, that
is a true highlight. So for me,it's like, Yes, I managed to
kind of really grasp thepersonality and character of
that person. So they're alwayshighlights. There have been some
services that I will neverforget. Because it just felt
like you hit the nail on thehead of the right tone, the
(29:48):
right thing the family wanted.
There's a few families that keepin contact. There was one that I
remember meeting with them andthey said to me straight away,
we want the scene to Boy, weneed this service, high tempo,
really joyful. And as I sort ofworked with them on this
service, but on the day, I wasso nervous because I thought, I
(30:08):
know in that moment,particularly the committal
moment that the joy might not bepresent, kind of, it's okay if
the tears fall, and I didn'twant this service to be fake. So
to weave in sort of humour andjoy, and actually weave it down
into sort of grief, all that.
(30:30):
And during the committal, theywanted a particular song and
everyone up on their feetdancing. Wow. So to try and
steer environment in the funeralservice to get everyone up on
their feet, dancing this song,and they were dancing and
clapping. And it worked in thefamily. On the way out, I
remember the young son sort ofjust grabbing me, and just said
(30:54):
that was just what we allwanted. And it was that sigh of
light. Oh, I'm so glad because Ihave been trying to be
sensitive, but kind of followthrough exactly what they
wanted. So the service where wewere dancing down the aisle was
pretty amazing. There have beensome themed services that have
been wonderful like a Christmasone that was no any Christmas,
(31:19):
because a person who died wasthe local Santa. So was wearing
head to toe Santa outfit withinthe coffin. And these two black
wellies were in front of thecoffee. And so everyone came in
Christmas jumpers. And so when ascene is really strong, they're
just unforgettable. Yeah,moments of just magic I had a
(31:43):
grandchild who had Downsyndrome, helped me with a
service and as trying to workwith the family, and how could
we include this grandchild?
appropriately. So I asked if thegrandchild will press the button
for the curtain. So I gave himthis moment. And as he came up
to the microphone with me,before he pressed the button, he
just shouted and raised his handwhen five, three, wow, press the
(32:07):
button or went by Grant all thisstuff. And it was just, it was
wonderful, because the wholeroom knew in and it was just
perfect. But I couldn't havescripted that but I knew his
voice and his involvement wasreally important to the family.
So sometimes the best bits arenot over thought. Other times,
(32:31):
you've really thought throughthe details. And they've worked
well. So yeah, I love so the onethat I described before about
pink in everywhere and wearingpink, the lady has chosen for
her ashes to go into space. Soit was kind of space themed
hours in a star dress. Andsometimes they're so unique. You
(32:51):
can really run with a theme. Andwhen you see people walk out,
and they go that was just sothen that for me absolute
highlight. Yeah,
Claire (33:05):
that must feel. Yeah, knowing you've given that one me
what a gift to give somebody.
And that is not easy to do. Likeyou said, people might picture a
joyful funeral. But like yousaid, you know, you've got the
experience of actually being inthe room and knowing what that
atmosphere is like and to shiftit to that is very difficult if
it's not there already. So yeah,that's amazing. I think what a
lot of people would fear aboutyour job would be just the
public speaking in itself. Haveyou got moments when you look
(33:27):
back and you've you've made amistake that you kind of that
haunts you slightly, and I knowyou have counselling so that I
know you'll have worked throughthis. And I won't be triggering
anything too. Too horrific.
Hopefully. I
Jen (33:38):
think every service I walk away with I could have tweaked
this perhaps next time I woulddo it like that. I think it's
just the perfectionist isn't itof wanting to make sure it was
right. So there can be nigglythings. I remember leading a
service once known as a gorgeousblack and white photo projected
on the wall behind me. And Idon't I don't book the media
(34:02):
side of things. The funeraldirector does that. And I lead
this service. And it wasn'tuntil the end that they came to
me and said that wasn't ourloved one projected on the wall.
So I have never had a clue. Sothere's things like that, that
I'm like, Oh no, but the familylaughed it off and thought it
was hilarious. And so we kind ofgot away with it. All right. But
(34:22):
so there's moments like thatwhere I do beat myself up. Like
if the tech system doesn't wantto play ball and tweaks like
that or you plan something butit's always thinking on your
feet and being flexible. So eventhough I've planned a certain
amount of time, you have tothink on your feet in that
moment to flex things movethings around. That is always
(34:45):
quite challenging. Yeah, there'sthere's always things to learn
as well just when you thinkyou've met a family and you go
ah, this was similar to lasttime it won't be is completely
unique. So starting at acompletely blank page with every
family helps when asking goodquestions, and clarifying
(35:06):
questions just to make sure thatyou haven't presumed something.
And actually, that wasn'timportant to the family. So it's
always the double checking,triple checking, and that sort
of thing. It's
Claire (35:17):
amazing how resilient families are. I mean, not all I
know, some people would bereally upset if something went
wrong at a funeral. But theamount of stories I've heard
where things have gone wrong,and people have, it's been one
of the highlighting memories.
And like you said, they've said,oh, so and so whoever they'd
lost would love that. They'veloved that this went wrong. I
was at a funeral recently. And Ifelt so sorry for them, because
as they left the church, itabsolutely tipped it down. And
(35:37):
they were just going into thecemetery to bury this grandma.
And it had been dry for thewhole service, a timing was just
so so bad. I felt so sorry forthem, they all got drenched. But
they came back in afterwards,just like running into the porch
of the church. And I could hearthem all saying, oh, she'd love
that. That was her, she did thaton purpose, that immediately
turned it into something thatwill be part of that the memory
(36:00):
of that service. And so I lovethat people do that people get
so worried about things goingwrong. Same with weddings,
really, but ultimately, theytend to be some of the best
memories sometimes. So it's nicethat people can turn those
things around. Like they're notalways
Jen (36:14):
Yeah, you hope that any sort of things are given a bit
of grace, particularly theunexpected. And you do try and
work very closely with a funeraldirector in the venue and lots
of quick decision making andteamwork. But yeah, I do hope
some families when things havehappened, that they they embrace
it, and not take it too deeply.
Because I think my deepest heartis never to, I want to help
(36:36):
people in their grief and theirprocess. So if they experience a
good funeral, that reflectstheir person, it will help them
in grief. And particularly forchildren and young people who've
never experienced a funeralbefore. If I can journey
alongside them, and give them agood first experience of a
(36:57):
funeral, it will set them up forthe future. So there's always
that you want it to be perfect.
So you can beat yourself up abit. And I do have to kind of
give myself for talking tosometimes afterwards and go Why
am I kind of worried about thislittle detail? Perhaps the
(37:17):
family didn't notice that. I didthis when I was hoping to do
this. You've just got to trustthe process yet and talk to
families afterwards. Have
Claire (37:27):
you got any thoughts about what you would want for
your funeral?
Jen (37:29):
Oh, I changed my mind a lot. The more kind of families I
meet, I think some peoplepresume I'd be perhaps really
out there and do somethingoutrageous. But some of the
services I've led have beenreally kind of intimate with
only a few. But it was the wordsource certain symbolisms that
(37:53):
were done that are precious, Ithink it would definitely have
to include a Lion King song ofmy family know that I did a lot
of travelling around Africa. Andso that's a big part of my heart
and Lion King. My kids knowthat. So it's, I think it's
those little things everyoneshould walk away with a white
chocolate limbal horse. And Ithink kind of Yeah, Black could
(38:16):
probably be banned. And mostpeople associate mustard and
purple with me. So they'llprobably wear those colours. But
I changed my mind quite a bitsometimes that I go from one way
where I go, I'll be cremated.
And I'd love to be scatteredfrom a hot air balloon across
the African savannah and my kidsjoke sort of logo mom will do
that. And then there are othertimes like the the woodland in
(38:39):
north Wales that you went to.
And I just think that place isjust magical as an actual burial
ground and then I go model loveto like dwell there. So I
changed my mind a little bit.
But I think it depends on kindof perhaps when I die the
circumstances but I'vedefinitely put a few ideas in my
(39:00):
children's heads. And they'repretty used to all things death
over the breakfast table. Sothey don't think they're mums to
wacko, particularly when I turnup at the school playground
wearing an outrageous colour.
Claire (39:16):
I'm literally picturing like the Western Lion King cast
at the front now with all theirgear or even in the forest. You
could do it in the forest innorth Wales and total forest
through the curry throwers.
They're all singing that will beamazing. The total forest when
we went I hadn't seen anythinglike that before and you're
right is absolutely beautiful.
You just I was like well, youknow, can anyone be buried
(39:37):
there? It's nowhere near where Ilive but wow, what a place to
just rest everything about itwas just beautiful. I loved it.
I fell in love with it. But itdoesn't seem like there's many
of them around. They seem quiterare at the moment which is a
shame because it was lovely useof
Jen (39:50):
land and it was an established woodlands which is
different. You're kind of beingburied amongst the trees rather
than buried and then the tree isplanted and then it will look on
Amazing in like 1020 years timeYeah, so no the bird song in
that place. I've led servicesthere in all weathers. There's
something so magical. I lead alot with AD. So that's a very
(40:12):
special place and a very specialperson to me. Really?
Claire (40:15):
Yeah. Isn't your lovely team over there? The people in
that area are well catered forwhen it comes to funerals.
Lovely people. I mean, that'sthe only people I've met. So I
haven't got any comparison foranywhere else. But yeah, they
were all very, very welcoming,very friendly. And yeah, just
very caring really, which was,which was lovely, too. So, for
my last question, I'm buildingthis tool shed of metaphorical
(40:37):
tools to help people you know,through loss and grief and to
understand it more and toprepare for it really. So the
question I want to ask you isrelated to the colour because
it's such a part of your brand.
So what kind of tool do youthink colour is when it comes to
funerals or even processinggrief?
Jen (40:53):
I've been thinking about this and sharing it with my
family, my children came up withall sorts of tools in a shed
that were quite appropriate. Onesaid shaves or kind of leaf
blower and all sorts of things.
But I was thinking that my ownoffice is the garden shed that
we've moved to in the Manse. Andwe were decorating it kind of
(41:15):
boarded it out for me, and wepainted it white, just wasn't
me. So I bought a tin of mustardpaint. And the floor is mustard.
The walls are mustard, theceiling is mustard. So it is my
little box of sunshine. But itstruck me when I went to the DIY
(41:36):
store locally, this machine thatI needed to ask for my coloured
paint to be created. I couldn'tget it directly off the shelf.
And also this incredible machinewhere they sort of put white and
it squirts a bit of this colourand a bit green and a bit of
this and you look at it and youthink those colours on in
mustard, kind of such a uniquemakeup of this colour, and then
(42:00):
it sort of shapes and mixes andgives you this personalised pot
of paint. So I think that wouldbe my tool for you, not just the
tub of unique paint that isindividual and unique to the
person but it's the process thatit goes to to become unique. It
starts as this white in a paint,but it needs a little square of
(42:26):
different colours to form thatcolour. So if you've got room in
your metaphorical shed for anactual paint mixing machine,
that would be amazing.
Claire (42:40):
A paint mixer, and of course I can fit in because
metaphorical sheds are veryaccommodating, and basically
just grow as you need them to.
For this analogy, it's almost ashame that paint colours don't
start with black instead ofwhite, that common funeral death
colour. And then Jen could addher colours to it to change the
standard funeral colour to makeit something colourful and
unique to the person that'sdied. But that's not how paint
works.
(43:00):
Anyway, if you want to find outmore about Jen, you can visit
www.JWcelebrancy.co.uk. And I'llput a link to that and her
social media in the show notes.
And it's well worth checking outnot just for the Herman video
that she did, but also for thebeautiful colours you'll see
stamped all over her branding.
Thank you so much for thisconversation, Jen. As always,
chats like these really allow meto dream bigger when it comes to
(43:21):
thinking about how I'd like myown funeral to be but also
reminds me how creative we canbe when remembering family and
friends through their funeralstoo. My grandma loved the colour
yellow and owls. So I asked oneof my friends to make all the
immediate family a yellowtextile owl brooch to wear at
her funeral. It's given mesomething I really cherish about
that day and made it veryspecial. But having started the
(43:41):
podcast since then, I wish I'dpush to go even bigger with the
yellow theme. I think she'd havereally loved that.
So thanks for listening to TheSilent why podcast. If you've
got a subject you'd like me tochat to an expert on, please get
in touch via social media or thewebsite or just email me:
thesilentwhy@gmail.com and let'schat...
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