August 13, 2024 • 32 mins
Ever wondered how a graphic designer ends up revolutionizing healthcare with cutting-edge technology? Join us as Lynn Welch takes us on a thrilling journey from her early days at a government think tank to breaking new ground in military and healthcare simulations. Discover her remarkable contributions to DARPA and the U.S. Army, and how her expertise became crucial during the 9-11 response. Fast forward to her current groundbreaking work at Lucid Reality Labs, where she's now blending AI and XR technologies to transform patient care and training.
In this episode, we tackle the latest advancements in healthcare technology and cybersecurity, including Lynn’s pivotal collaboration with major tech giants to enhance data security. Get the inside scoop on a pioneering project with Doxy.Me, aimed at creating a virtual phobia treatment system. Lynn also sheds light on how generative AI and VR are revolutionizing the healthcare industry, making immersive learning more accessible and efficient. Tune in to learn how a younger, tech-savvy workforce is driving rapid adoption of these innovative tools, supported by substantial investments from the likes of Meta and Apple.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynn-welch-522b51/
Email for Lynn Welch: lynnwelch@lucidrealitylabs.com
https://lucidrealitylabs.com/
Innovative SimSolutions.
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(00:48):
Welcome to The Sim Cafe, apodcast produced by the team at
Innovative Sim Solutions, editedby Shelly Houser.
Join our host, Deb Tauber, anco-host Jerrod Jeffries, our
host De b Tauber as they sitdown with subject matter experts
(01:09):
from across the globe toreimagine clinical education and
the use of simulation.
So pour yourself a cup ofrelaxation, sit back, tune in
and learn something new from TheSim Cafe.
Deb Tauber (01:30):
Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe.
Welcome Jerrod, welcome LynnWelch.
Today we have Lynn Welch andLynn.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
Where are you at right now?
Lynn Welch (01:42):
I am sitting in Arizona.
My husband and I ran away fromhome during COVID, left
Washington DC and relocated outto the Phoenix area, so I am
enjoying year-round sunshine.
Deb Tauber (01:54):
Perfect, perfect Jerrod, where are you at?
Jerrod Jeffries (01:57):
I'm at it calling out of Copenhagen,
Denmark, so we're from alldifferent locations.
Deb Tauber (02:04):
So, Lynn, why don't you go ahead and tell us about
your journey you have a very,very fascinating story and tell
our listeners about yourself andhow you got started.
Lynn Welch (02:15):
I've had a very fun adventure in the simulation
space, starting when I was 21years old.
I am, believe it or not, I aman artist by training and I was
working at a government thinktank in the Washington DC area.
I had done an internship in thePentagon, was hired out of the
Pentagon into a government thinktank as a graphic designer and
(02:39):
in the first six months I wasthere one of the division
directors came downstairs intothe publications department
where I was working and said,hey, is there an artist in here?
And they said yeah, we justhired one.
And they said here, comeupstairs for a minute.
And they took me upstairs andthrew me in a fighter simulator
(02:59):
and said, tell us what's wrongwith this gaming environment.
And this was back in 91, oractually 1990.
And it was one of the firstimmersive environments created
for dismounted infantry training.
The armies foray into lookingat simulation technology for
training and readiness.
(03:20):
They were moving in the samedirection that, of course,
aviation and the Navy hadalready been spearheading for
several years.
So I had the good fortune tostart working as a designer on
that gaming team and I spent thenext seven years building
immersive environments acrossseveral different applications
(03:41):
for DARPA and for the US Army.
And that was my start insimulation 1990 or 91?
1990.
, and I worked in that capacityon some really fascinating
projects.
One of the immersive databasesI built was used on 9-11 for the
only civil support team thatcould detect chemical and
(04:04):
biological radiological issuancein the area.
They were able to respond on9-11 and understand if any of
the devices and any of theplanes that went into the towers
had any biological orradiological material.
So I've been very fortunatethat some of the simulations
I've been involved in have hadgreat impact and, of course, all
(04:26):
of us on the healthcare side.
We're so passionate about whatwe do and I worked in some areas
of Homeland Security for a fewyears after working actively in
the simulation military simspace, and I was recruited to
join Education ManagementSolutions back in 2012.
And that began my healthcaresimulation journey.
(04:46):
Interestingly enough, I went toa military conference that same
year and I had been offered theopportunity at EMS and I was
mulling it over and didn't knowmuch how it was being applied on
the healthcare side, and one ofmy mentors from when I worked
at the government think tank asa very young person was there.
So I asked him what he, whatwas his opinion, what should I
(05:09):
do?
He said, Lynn, you jump in withboth feet right now.
You were on the wave of thefirst gaming revolution on the
military side.
Healthcare is where it's goingto happen next and at the end of
your career you're going tohave the most interesting story
of all of us because you'regoing to have ridden two waves
(05:30):
of innovation and, coming frommy mentor, that meant a lot.
I jumped in with both feet andstarted my adventure on the
simulation side of healthcare,and where I am now I've come a
bit full circle and I'm back inthe immersive side of simulation
(05:51):
with Lucid Reality Labs, and wework primarily in virtual
reality, augmented reality andmixed reality experiences.
75% of all of our work is forhealth care and medical
technology, pharma and a lot ofwhat we design is used by our
clients to deliver patient care.
And that's what I'm mostexcited about is to see how fast
(06:11):
XR technology and simulationsbeing adopted for creating novel
therapeutics, new noveltherapies specifically for
neural rehab and mental healthcare, expanding access to health
care so you can receive moreinsightful and meaningful and
impactful treatment right inyour home, and also to look at
(06:34):
how fast this is moving.
On a pure technology side,we're doing a lot with
artificial intelligence andintegrating it in the actual
device infrastructures used forpatient care.
So it's been an amazing journeyfor me so far and a lot more to
come.
Jerrod Jeffries (06:52):
That's incredible.
I mean that spans decades.
One but two, obviously, theindustries and, to your words,
the different waves.
I mean you've probably seensome similarities but, of course
, a lot of differences.
Has there been any starkcontrast between the two
different waves?
Lynn Welch (07:07):
No, you know it's interesting.
There's also a lot of commonproblems between the two ways.
You know, if you look atmilitary simulation, they're
still really trying to solvethat true interoperability
challenge.
And as we look at health caresimulation, and particularly the
intersection between patientdelivery and patient practice
(07:29):
and the education side on theundergraduate, residency and
continuing healthcare educationthere's still that challenge of
how do you knit those togetherand the interoperability, how do
you make sure data isaccessible across that?
How do you cross, measureclinical competencies and
therapeutic approaches throughthat entire chain of care?
(07:52):
And on the military side youhad the same problem how do you
knit together these differentweapon systems?
How do you get a theater-wideview?
And you see a lot in thedefense community.
They're still trying to solvethat and as technology evolves
it's making it easier and fasterto adapt new technologies and
bring them into common operatingsystems.
(08:12):
So I think those are some ofthe.
I see more commonalities versusdifferences in the waves.
There's just a lot of the samekind of technology challenges
they're trying to solve.
Jerrod Jeffries (08:24):
Then you know, moving into the lucid reality
labs is with these therapy.
Are you seeing similarchallenges?
Or what's the most importantproblem you're solving now with
Lucid Reality Labs?
Lynn Welch (08:36):
To me, number one when it comes to healthcare and
this is something we focusheavily on is HIPAA protection
of the patient data and thecybersecurity.
One of the biggest shifts I'veseen in my role with Lucid
Reality Labs is we're workingdirectly with a lot of the
strategic planners across a lotof the big technology companies.
(08:58):
All of them want to get intohealthcare and a lot of them are
really partnering closely withus and other companies like us
that are providing some of thesetherapeutic solutions to
understand from the headset,through the integration software
channels, how do we integrateback into healthcare systems
electronic health records,learner record systems within
(09:20):
organizations, how do we keepall that data secure and private
?
And we've done some projectswith one of the largest
telehealth providers in theUnited States.
They recently launched theyrecently launched a phobia
treatment that's 100% virtual,intended to be delivered in the
home.
So we are going through thefirst HIPAA certification of
(09:42):
that system with them right now,along with Meta.
So we've been working veryclosely with our Meta partners
on understanding how does allthis technology connect together
?
How do we keep it secure?
And the next step will beintegrating that back into
electronic health records andclinical notes and all of those
elements.
So those are really exciting.
(10:04):
So a couple of years ago I wasmore in our traditional higher
ed and continuing educationhealthcare space.
I didn't have 10 differentcontacts at Meta I talked with.
I wasn't talking to theleadership at HTC Vive.
I wasn't talking to Qualcommand NVIDIA about here's some
security lockdown elements thatcan be embedded in the next
(10:25):
version, just to share ourfeedback.
So it's been really exciting.
I'm very excited to see Metaand Apple really focusing on the
healthcare space and when youget big investment from a
research and development andinterest, that provides growth
for all the sectors in ourmarket.
So that's what I'm most excitedabout really getting to go to
(10:49):
the Consumer Electronics Showand sit down and get an inside
look at what's coming out nextand how that can be applied to
healthcare.
So really a chance to literallysit on the cutting edge and
help drive it forward.
So every day is an adventure.
Jerrod Jeffries (11:04):
Incredible and I love how it all started from,
you know as an artist back inthe 90s, of where it's matured
to and all the different areasyou've been able to grow and
contribute to.
So thank you.
Deb Tauber (11:17):
Yeah, thank you.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about the phobia?
Lynn Welch (11:21):
The phobia treatment is so fascinating.
Our client, doxyme it'sprobably the largest company you
may not have heard of, but theyprovide a huge amount of the
back-end telehealth technologyinfrastructure and they were
quite interested in providing adifferent option for delivering
(11:42):
telehealth.
They have a million providersin their network, so they
received a grant and selected usto help them build out a
product to treat phobias.
So we started with the mostcommon phobias, which are
spiders and snakes and dogs, andwe wanted to create a platform
that would be completely secure,so that the therapist could be
(12:06):
in a live session with theirpatient in a fully virtual
environment and creating thatthird safe space, and so we also
wanted to make sure that thepatient felt very comfortable in
that environment.
We worked very closely with theDocsEme clinical team to
understand in immersion therapy,which is the standard treatment
for phobia, what are the mostimportant things as they begin
(12:30):
to introduce a phobia triggerinto an environment, which
traditionally had happened in atherapeutic clinical workspace
where you go to a office and yousit down with your therapist,
and there's a lot of reasons whythat can create additional
anxiety to someone strugglingwith phobia.
(12:51):
So we actually had anopportunity to interview several
of their therapists andbrainstorm what would an ideal
environment look like for apatient?
And we really thought aboutapproaching it from a mixed
reality point of view.
Would they be more comfortablein their own home, where they
could see their physicalsurroundings and then see the
(13:12):
therapist in a virtual form andthen have a phobia trigger?
And they discarded that,because putting the phobia
trigger in their actual homeenvironment can create a cascade
of other issues.
So they told us no, no, we wanta third space, and they were
very specific about the kind ofcolors, even down to the
paintings on the wall and theentire environment.
(13:34):
We designed an environmentwhere both the therapist and the
patient can select andcustomize an avatar to fit how
they prefer to see themselves onthat particular day, and it
provides a secure login for thetherapist to schedule the
session and the patient to login.
So we make sure that data isbeing encrypted properly in a
(13:56):
secure fashion, as would beappropriate for an actual
therapeutic session.
Once they're in the session,then the therapist has full
control of everything thathappens after that.
Both the patient and thetherapist can see and hear each
other's actions, and in realtime, and the therapist can
select the type of phobia theywant to work on that day.
(14:19):
They can select the species,the breed of dog or the type of
snake or the type of spider.
There's a whole library of them.
They can control where thatphobia trigger is located.
They can place it in a pictureon the wall to start a very
(14:40):
gradual introduction or they canactually place an active,
animated version of that triggerin the room.
But they also can select howactive it is.
Is it passive, neutral oraggressive?
How large is it?
They can control the size ofthat trigger and the level of
activity and the idea is thatover multiple sessions then the
(15:01):
patient is going to become moreand more comfortable with that
trigger in the room withdifferent levels of activity.
So it's a safe way to performimmersion therapy, deliver
immersion therapy, withoutcausing additional traumatic
impact.
So it's a very interestingapproach.
We've had wonderful feedbackand wonderful results from the
(15:22):
study that's ongoing and we'llbe starting the next phase of
development on that project inthe fall.
Deb Tauber (15:29):
So about the study, how many participants have you
had thus far?
Lynn Welch (15:34):
I believe there are several dozen.
I would need to get thespecifics for you, deb, from our
client.
So I can certainly reach out toTriton at doxyme, and you may
find him an interesting podcastguest too, because his team were
the innovators that beganlooking at all of the technology
and looking at how can we domore, and they settled on
(15:57):
immersion therapy.
So they may be a great guestfor you as well.
Jerrod Jeffries (16:01):
Thank you for that, and so just so I'm clear
too, that was a great examplewith the phobia.
But you're also outsidehealthcare.
It's med tech, pharma defense,and was it aerospace.
Lynn Welch (16:11):
Defense and aerospace, and we also have a
wonderful sector of our businessfor leisure and entertainment
and we get to do some purely funwork for Universal Studios, a
really amazing and interestingaugmented reality projects.
That lets us flex our purecreative muscles.
(16:32):
And we also do quite a bit ofwork for Carnival Cruise Lines.
We've built digital twins ofquite a bit of their of their
cruise line chips down toextreme detail and they have a
really fascinating approach tointegrating that XR and the
digital twins across theiroperations globally.
(16:54):
So really a fascinating projectwhere we're bringing more
real-time information,artificial intelligence and
augmented reality to support dayto day operations and customer
facing workflows.
Jerrod Jeffries (17:09):
OK, that's.
That's incredible, I mean,because it's also spread so
different.
I mean I guess there's a lot ofoverlap in terms of platform
development or whatever else,but to be able to again, in your
words, stretch your creativeminds and put it in the leisure
place.
But it's all education,training, operations, at the end
of the day, in some way shapeor form.
(17:29):
But it's also still so relevantfor all these different areas.
Lynn Welch (17:33):
One of the things that really is common across all
of those is creating engagingworkspaces and engaging
therapeutic spaces, and we findthat the more experiential rich
any of those models are, thebetter the outcomes are, whether
it's a manufacturing workflow,quality assurance process, all
(17:56):
the way down to delivering acompletely different approach to
the customer experience.
Deb Tauber (18:02):
Now, Lynn , you talked about it being fun.
What can you specifically speakto?
Something that's really funabout it?
You have such a an incredibleamount of insight to this topic
of virtual reality, which formany of us is is really new.
And you know novel, sure, it'sbeen around, you know, when you
(18:23):
think about the conferences atIMSH and in NASCL and different
places, how the virtual realitything I mean, I just remember
maybe 67 years ago seeing it forthe first time, and now it's
just just so much faster, better, smarter, right.
Lynn Welch (18:40):
What's amazing from my perspective having first
jumped into the virtual worldwhen I was 21, and that was one
or two years ago yeah, Havingfirst jumped in then what I
really see as the real gamechanger is the ability to
generate content and sharecontent.
And to me, even up until themiddle of COVID, I was speaking
(19:02):
to a group of investors and theywanted to jump into the VR
space and I said throttle downon that, because access to
content is still a challenge.
Building content is expensive.
Sharing content is challenging.
Common content libraries stillare challenging to build and
very intensive and labor heavy.
(19:24):
They are expensive.
A lot of companies can't investin that, and one of the things
I quickly found that's happenedin my perspective over 18 months
is the rapid innovation of toolsets that anyone can use, that
are out of the box, driven by AI.
So generative content is here,it's accessible and you see
(19:47):
quite a few companies being ableto productize those and bring
those to the market.
We're going to see a hugegrowth in the ability to rapidly
generate and share scenarios,common model libraries, because
a lot of the innovation is herefor the generative AI.
Because a lot of the innovationis here for the generative AI.
We use a lot of it in our owntechnology stack and one of the
(20:08):
things we realized is ourclients, as they continue to
want to grow their patienttreatment modalities, for
therapists to build their ownscenarios, for clinicians to
customize their training.
We're seeing in a lot of ourwork with the med tech companies
we partner very closely with,we build out a lot of digital
twins of their devices, buildthose workflows.
(20:29):
Their clients are no longer, asdon't have as much of an
appetite for sending staff to atraining center, to a brick and
mortar training center, forthree or four days.
Three or four days if they canhave a virtual training tool
that augments that, they cansend a smaller number of staff
and then train more widely.
(20:49):
Those individuals trained inperson can come back, leverage
the VR tools and continue totrain the rest of their clinical
staff.
This is particularly usefulwhen, given the amount of
turnover you see in thehealthcare provider space and
being able to capture thattraining and scale it is
critically important to ourhealthcare systems.
So these are some areas wherewe see this rapidly growing.
(21:13):
Being able to include low-codescenario and model generation is
enormously helpful to lethealthcare systems customize the
training specific to their ownneeds at their own site.
And as we see our work with themed tech companies, they're
building these amazinginnovative technologies but they
(21:34):
significantly disrupt clinicalworkflows.
And being able to have thattraining tool that's a
just-in-time training tool whereyou can grab a headset, pop it
on during a break, get a littlefamiliar with what your role is
in, for example, setting up anOR room for a specific procedure
.
If you have a new device inthere, that's very disruptive.
(21:55):
You need to have some time topractice at your own pace so
you're comfortable setting thatOR up specifically for the
surgeon you're working with thatday, Customized for the
individual or for that room orenvironment and whatever else
and some of what we build forthe med tech companies.
(22:17):
It also lets their salespeople,when they're going into a
hospital client, be able toquickly build the 3D model of
what that particular let's sayit's a piece of lab equipment.
How is that going to fit inthat specific actual environment
?
Well, we build solutions wherethey can go in with an iPad.
They can scan a room quicklywith their camera on their iPad.
(22:38):
That entire 3D environment getsmodeled on the fly and they can
drop their device down insidethe client's actual setting so
they can actually runsimulations and understand.
Okay, this is how this piece oflab equipment is either going
to assist or create a challengein my existing workflows, both
(23:00):
from a logistics and operationalperspective, as well as a
staffing perspective.
Jerrod Jeffries (23:04):
Is there a pattern you find that it
actually creates more challengesor it makes it more efficient,
or is it just so dependent?
Lynn Welch (23:13):
Well, in the one MedTech client we build this
solution for, it's cut theirsales cycle down from over 12
months to three.
Oh, ok, yeah.
Deb Tauber (23:24):
And I can speak to from working in the emergency
department for so long.
If you were to have, you know,like the top 10 emergencies and
be able to practice just in thebreak room and using because
there's so much equipment to itputting in chest tubes, central
lines, all those high risk, lowfrequency events but to just be
able to put some goggles on and,kind of practice, walk through
(23:45):
it and then when the actualemergency comes in, you're
prepared.
Lynn Welch (23:51):
And where we start seeing all of our collective
work tie back together is theyounger workforce that's coming
in.
They're asking theirsupervisors why don't we have
this?
I had this in the sim lab.
Why don't we have this?
So they're expecting it, theydemand it, it's.
They don't want to spend hoursin a classroom, they don't want
(24:12):
death by PowerPoint.
They don't want these dryrefresher courses that they have
to have.
They want experiential learningwhen they have time and they
want to be able to measure theirown ability to apply it.
Deb Tauber (24:25):
The problem is the laggards right.
Lynn Welch (24:28):
Well, a rising tide right Raises all ships.
But one thing I truly believethat COVID, as awful and
terrible as it was, it hasaccelerated the adoption of
immersive learning.
It's pushed it forward fiveyears at least.
Deb Tauber (24:46):
Agree.
Lynn Welch (24:48):
And I think what's going to continue that
accelerated growth is thesupport and the tools we're
getting from the big techinvestment in immersive.
We continue to see just amazinggenerative AI tools coming out
every day.
I know in monitoring myinternal company communications,
we live on Slack and we are aglobal company, so we're fully
(25:10):
virtual and our team is all overthe world, but every single day
, one of my team is pulling in anew generative AI tool and
saying, hey, go try this.
And we use them every dayourselves.
And we've actually taken ourseven years.
We actually started in 2016.
So our seven plus years ofexperience, we've actually
(25:33):
created packages on all of ourbest design and development
practices and tools and we'reputting those out into a
subscription model availableplatform for our clients to pick
up what we've already built forthem and continue building on
their own.
Jerrod Jeffries (25:50):
Actually, I've learned so much during this
conversation, lynn, so thank you, because I also didn't know
there was this low to no code,almost models for creating
content.
I mean that to me is wherethere's such a heavy cost and
when it's streamlined, it'sreally, really helpful for,
obviously, the end user, but tobe able to easily digest that
(26:11):
and consume that as the end useris, of course, extremely
advantageous.
Lynn Welch (26:16):
The other innovation we've pushed out that I have to
say I'm the most excited aboutis what we've been doing with
artificial intelligence.
We do a lot of work withMedtronic.
They have a wonderful productfor intubation called the MAC
video laryngoscope and we hadbuilt a digital twin of that and
modeled eight differentpatients with different levels
(26:39):
of difficult airways, which wasa lot of sophisticated
algorithms to create that hapticfeedback.
As you're putting the McGrathdown in and going through the
motions, it also has realclinical data on the video
monitor of the actual patientwho had the difficult airway.
So you're kind of fusingreality with VR.
But one of the things wenoticed when we go to a lot of
(27:02):
conferences and events withMedtronic to help them present
this solution one of the thingswe noticed to a lot of
conferences and events withMedtronic to help them present
this solution One of the thingswe noticed is a lot of the
clinicians and the residentsthat would jump into the
experience.
At conferences like the AmericanSociety of Anesthesiology they
were asking questions in the VRheadset.
They would literally ask aquestion out loud while they're
in the VR headset and guess what?
(27:23):
Nobody's answering it.
There are prompts in the VRexperience but it's not
answering their specificquestion.
So we had the opportunity toteam with Dr Patrick Schroedker,
who's the worldwide expert invideo laryngoscope-assisted
intubation.
He's 30 years running theDepartment of Anesthesiology at
the University of Luzon and hasbeen teaching and driving their
(27:46):
curriculum.
He asked us what if you couldbottle my 30 years of knowledge?
So we created a digital twin ofDr Patrick and put him in the
experience and we worked withhim to build the logic database
for the artificial intelligenceengine behind him.
He now, when you have aquestion and you're in that
(28:08):
experience you ask Dr Patrick aquestion, he answers you, he
gives you additional referencesand this way we're making sure
when somebody has a question itdoesn't go unanswered and we're
also seeing the time to intubatesignificantly drop based on
that, and he watches what you'redoing, gives you a few hints.
So we find it fascinating thisconcept that you can bring that
(28:34):
attending physician in and scaleaccess to this critical
knowledge through theseartificial intelligence engines
backed by the correct logicdatabase.
Deb Tauber (28:46):
That's amazing, absolutely fascinating, but so
needed.
Lynn Welch (28:51):
And they're fast really Alex I mean.
One example of that sameconference last October I heard
Dr Patrick come up behind me.
We were in the middle ofworking on it.
I heard his voice and I heardhim in AI over and over again in
the experience.
So I told him, dr Patrick, andI heard him in AI over and over
again in the experience.
So I told him, dr Patrick, andhe wanted to refine the visuals
for him and refine his voice.
So my CEO, alex, who was therewith me, he walked around and
(29:13):
took one video walking aroundhim for maybe less than a minute
of video to get his microexpressions as he was talking.
We recorded three minutes ofhis audio, his micro expressions
as he was talking.
We recorded three minutes ofhis audio.
And I took off the next morningflying from San Francisco to
Orlando for virtual realityaugmented reality association
event down there.
(29:34):
And I got off the plane onMonday and got into the
restaurant to eat dinner.
On Slack it popped up andhere's all Dr Patrick fully
rendered.
They had remapped all of thenew characteristics and the new
voice.
Deb Tauber (29:49):
Wow.
Lynn Welch (29:50):
And that's in less than 24 hours.
This is how fast we can buildthese things because the tools
are becoming accessible, and Ithink that's what I'm most
excited about is we now have theability to really have no
limits in what we can create,produce and deliver.
Jerrod Jeffries (30:05):
That's insane.
Deb Tauber (30:06):
Thank you so much.
Is there anything you want toleave our listeners with Gosh?
So many things, but.
Lynn Welch (30:12):
I think the most important thing is to me none of
this continues to happen ifpeople like you and Jared you
know, you, deb and Jared andmyself and everyone else that's
in our simulation space keeppushing.
And I know there's a surgeonwho's just come out with a
really innovative surgicalprocedure that's leveraging the
(30:37):
Apple Vision Pro and he's justso dynamic and totally changing
how surgical workflows arehappening in operating rooms.
And Dr Masson said somethingthat I have stolen from him and
his recommendation is when yousee something really compelling,
you jump.
You jump hard.
So I told Robert I was going tomodify that Jump hard and reach
(31:00):
out and grab others and takethem over with you, yep.
Deb Tauber (31:04):
I like that.
Yeah, I love it, but we allneed to keep pushing hard.
Lynn Welch (31:07):
We've got the tools now, and now it's just really
driving those, driving thatinnovation forward, and we all
have the tools to do it.
It's just a matter of ourcommunities staying together and
staying focused and continuingto push, because I really feel
we have not even seen the startof where this is going.
Deb Tauber (31:27):
I agree.
Well, thank you solucidrealitylabs.
com and we appreciated havingyou very much and we will keep
in touch and if our listenerswant to get ahold of you for any
questions, where can they go,Lynn?
Lynn Welch (31:39):
They can go to our website at lucidrealitylabscom
and my email is really easy toremember.
Reach out to me on LinkedIn ormy email, which is lynnwelch at
lucidrealitylabscom.
Perfect.
Jerrod Jeffries (31:54):
Thank you.
This is fascinating, Lynn.
Really I love this.
Lynn Welch (31:58):
Thank you so much and have a great day.
I look forward to the nextpodcast too.
www.
(32:35):
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(00:48):
Welcome to The Sim Cafe, apodcast produced by the team at
Innovative Sim Solutions, editedby Shelly Houser.
Join our host, Deb Tauber, anco-host Jerrod Jeffries, our
host De b Tauber as they sitdown with subject matter experts
(01:09):
from across the globe toreimagine clinical education and
the use of simulation.
So pour yourself a cup ofrelaxation, sit back, tune in
and learn something new from TheSim Cafe.
Deb Tauber (01:30):
Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe.
Welcome Jerrod, welcome LynnWelch.
Today we have Lynn Welch andLynn.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
Where are you at right now?
Lynn Welch (01:42):
I am sitting in Arizona.
My husband and I ran away fromhome during COVID, left
Washington DC and relocated outto the Phoenix area, so I am
enjoying year-round sunshine.
Deb Tauber (01:54):
Perfect, perfect Jerrod, where are you at?
Jerrod Jeffries (01:57):
I'm at it calling out of Copenhagen,
Denmark, so we're from alldifferent locations.
Deb Tauber (02:04):
So, Lynn, why don't you go ahead and tell us about
your journey you have a very,very fascinating story and tell
our listeners about yourself andhow you got started.
Lynn Welch (02:15):
I've had a very fun adventure in the simulation
space, starting when I was 21years old.
I am, believe it or not, I aman artist by training and I was
working at a government thinktank in the Washington DC area.
I had done an internship in thePentagon, was hired out of the
Pentagon into a government thinktank as a graphic designer and
(02:39):
in the first six months I wasthere one of the division
directors came downstairs intothe publications department
where I was working and said,hey, is there an artist in here?
And they said yeah, we justhired one.
And they said here, comeupstairs for a minute.
And they took me upstairs andthrew me in a fighter simulator
(02:59):
and said, tell us what's wrongwith this gaming environment.
And this was back in 91, oractually 1990.
And it was one of the firstimmersive environments created
for dismounted infantry training.
The armies foray into lookingat simulation technology for
training and readiness.
(03:20):
They were moving in the samedirection that, of course,
aviation and the Navy hadalready been spearheading for
several years.
So I had the good fortune tostart working as a designer on
that gaming team and I spent thenext seven years building
immersive environments acrossseveral different applications
(03:41):
for DARPA and for the US Army.
And that was my start insimulation 1990 or 91?
1990.
, and I worked in that capacityon some really fascinating
projects.
One of the immersive databasesI built was used on 9-11 for the
only civil support team thatcould detect chemical and
(04:04):
biological radiological issuancein the area.
They were able to respond on9-11 and understand if any of
the devices and any of theplanes that went into the towers
had any biological orradiological material.
So I've been very fortunatethat some of the simulations
I've been involved in have hadgreat impact and, of course, all
(04:26):
of us on the healthcare side.
We're so passionate about whatwe do and I worked in some areas
of Homeland Security for a fewyears after working actively in
the simulation military simspace, and I was recruited to
join Education ManagementSolutions back in 2012.
And that began my healthcaresimulation journey.
(04:46):
Interestingly enough, I went toa military conference that same
year and I had been offered theopportunity at EMS and I was
mulling it over and didn't knowmuch how it was being applied on
the healthcare side, and one ofmy mentors from when I worked
at the government think tank asa very young person was there.
So I asked him what he, whatwas his opinion, what should I
(05:09):
do?
He said, Lynn, you jump in withboth feet right now.
You were on the wave of thefirst gaming revolution on the
military side.
Healthcare is where it's goingto happen next and at the end of
your career you're going tohave the most interesting story
of all of us because you'regoing to have ridden two waves
(05:30):
of innovation and, coming frommy mentor, that meant a lot.
I jumped in with both feet andstarted my adventure on the
simulation side of healthcare,and where I am now I've come a
bit full circle and I'm back inthe immersive side of simulation
(05:51):
with Lucid Reality Labs, and wework primarily in virtual
reality, augmented reality andmixed reality experiences.
75% of all of our work is forhealth care and medical
technology, pharma and a lot ofwhat we design is used by our
clients to deliver patient care.
And that's what I'm mostexcited about is to see how fast
(06:11):
XR technology and simulationsbeing adopted for creating novel
therapeutics, new noveltherapies specifically for
neural rehab and mental healthcare, expanding access to health
care so you can receive moreinsightful and meaningful and
impactful treatment right inyour home, and also to look at
(06:34):
how fast this is moving.
On a pure technology side,we're doing a lot with
artificial intelligence andintegrating it in the actual
device infrastructures used forpatient care.
So it's been an amazing journeyfor me so far and a lot more to
come.
Jerrod Jeffries (06:52):
That's incredible.
I mean that spans decades.
One but two, obviously, theindustries and, to your words,
the different waves.
I mean you've probably seensome similarities but, of course
, a lot of differences.
Has there been any starkcontrast between the two
different waves?
Lynn Welch (07:07):
No, you know it's interesting.
There's also a lot of commonproblems between the two ways.
You know, if you look atmilitary simulation, they're
still really trying to solvethat true interoperability
challenge.
And as we look at health caresimulation, and particularly the
intersection between patientdelivery and patient practice
(07:29):
and the education side on theundergraduate, residency and
continuing healthcare educationthere's still that challenge of
how do you knit those togetherand the interoperability, how do
you make sure data isaccessible across that?
How do you cross, measureclinical competencies and
therapeutic approaches throughthat entire chain of care?
(07:52):
And on the military side youhad the same problem how do you
knit together these differentweapon systems?
How do you get a theater-wideview?
And you see a lot in thedefense community.
They're still trying to solvethat and as technology evolves
it's making it easier and fasterto adapt new technologies and
bring them into common operatingsystems.
(08:12):
So I think those are some ofthe.
I see more commonalities versusdifferences in the waves.
There's just a lot of the samekind of technology challenges
they're trying to solve.
Jerrod Jeffries (08:24):
Then you know, moving into the lucid reality
labs is with these therapy.
Are you seeing similarchallenges?
Or what's the most importantproblem you're solving now with
Lucid Reality Labs?
Lynn Welch (08:36):
To me, number one when it comes to healthcare and
this is something we focusheavily on is HIPAA protection
of the patient data and thecybersecurity.
One of the biggest shifts I'veseen in my role with Lucid
Reality Labs is we're workingdirectly with a lot of the
strategic planners across a lotof the big technology companies.
(08:58):
All of them want to get intohealthcare and a lot of them are
really partnering closely withus and other companies like us
that are providing some of thesetherapeutic solutions to
understand from the headset,through the integration software
channels, how do we integrateback into healthcare systems
electronic health records,learner record systems within
(09:20):
organizations, how do we keepall that data secure and private
?
And we've done some projectswith one of the largest
telehealth providers in theUnited States.
They recently launched theyrecently launched a phobia
treatment that's 100% virtual,intended to be delivered in the
home.
So we are going through thefirst HIPAA certification of
(09:42):
that system with them right now,along with Meta.
So we've been working veryclosely with our Meta partners
on understanding how does allthis technology connect together
?
How do we keep it secure?
And the next step will beintegrating that back into
electronic health records andclinical notes and all of those
elements.
So those are really exciting.
(10:04):
So a couple of years ago I wasmore in our traditional higher
ed and continuing educationhealthcare space.
I didn't have 10 differentcontacts at Meta I talked with.
I wasn't talking to theleadership at HTC Vive.
I wasn't talking to Qualcommand NVIDIA about here's some
security lockdown elements thatcan be embedded in the next
(10:25):
version, just to share ourfeedback.
So it's been really exciting.
I'm very excited to see Metaand Apple really focusing on the
healthcare space and when youget big investment from a
research and development andinterest, that provides growth
for all the sectors in ourmarket.
So that's what I'm most excitedabout really getting to go to
(10:49):
the Consumer Electronics Showand sit down and get an inside
look at what's coming out nextand how that can be applied to
healthcare.
So really a chance to literallysit on the cutting edge and
help drive it forward.
So every day is an adventure.
Jerrod Jeffries (11:04):
Incredible and I love how it all started from,
you know as an artist back inthe 90s, of where it's matured
to and all the different areasyou've been able to grow and
contribute to.
So thank you.
Deb Tauber (11:17):
Yeah, thank you.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about the phobia?
Lynn Welch (11:21):
The phobia treatment is so fascinating.
Our client, doxyme it'sprobably the largest company you
may not have heard of, but theyprovide a huge amount of the
back-end telehealth technologyinfrastructure and they were
quite interested in providing adifferent option for delivering
(11:42):
telehealth.
They have a million providersin their network, so they
received a grant and selected usto help them build out a
product to treat phobias.
So we started with the mostcommon phobias, which are
spiders and snakes and dogs, andwe wanted to create a platform
that would be completely secure,so that the therapist could be
(12:06):
in a live session with theirpatient in a fully virtual
environment and creating thatthird safe space, and so we also
wanted to make sure that thepatient felt very comfortable in
that environment.
We worked very closely with theDocsEme clinical team to
understand in immersion therapy,which is the standard treatment
for phobia, what are the mostimportant things as they begin
(12:30):
to introduce a phobia triggerinto an environment, which
traditionally had happened in atherapeutic clinical workspace
where you go to a office and yousit down with your therapist,
and there's a lot of reasons whythat can create additional
anxiety to someone strugglingwith phobia.
(12:51):
So we actually had anopportunity to interview several
of their therapists andbrainstorm what would an ideal
environment look like for apatient?
And we really thought aboutapproaching it from a mixed
reality point of view.
Would they be more comfortablein their own home, where they
could see their physicalsurroundings and then see the
(13:12):
therapist in a virtual form andthen have a phobia trigger?
And they discarded that,because putting the phobia
trigger in their actual homeenvironment can create a cascade
of other issues.
So they told us no, no, we wanta third space, and they were
very specific about the kind ofcolors, even down to the
paintings on the wall and theentire environment.
(13:34):
We designed an environmentwhere both the therapist and the
patient can select andcustomize an avatar to fit how
they prefer to see themselves onthat particular day, and it
provides a secure login for thetherapist to schedule the
session and the patient to login.
So we make sure that data isbeing encrypted properly in a
(13:56):
secure fashion, as would beappropriate for an actual
therapeutic session.
Once they're in the session,then the therapist has full
control of everything thathappens after that.
Both the patient and thetherapist can see and hear each
other's actions, and in realtime, and the therapist can
select the type of phobia theywant to work on that day.
(14:19):
They can select the species,the breed of dog or the type of
snake or the type of spider.
There's a whole library of them.
They can control where thatphobia trigger is located.
They can place it in a pictureon the wall to start a very
(14:40):
gradual introduction or they canactually place an active,
animated version of that triggerin the room.
But they also can select howactive it is.
Is it passive, neutral oraggressive?
How large is it?
They can control the size ofthat trigger and the level of
activity and the idea is thatover multiple sessions then the
(15:01):
patient is going to become moreand more comfortable with that
trigger in the room withdifferent levels of activity.
So it's a safe way to performimmersion therapy, deliver
immersion therapy, withoutcausing additional traumatic
impact.
So it's a very interestingapproach.
We've had wonderful feedbackand wonderful results from the
(15:22):
study that's ongoing and we'llbe starting the next phase of
development on that project inthe fall.
Deb Tauber (15:29):
So about the study, how many participants have you
had thus far?
Lynn Welch (15:34):
I believe there are several dozen.
I would need to get thespecifics for you, deb, from our
client.
So I can certainly reach out toTriton at doxyme, and you may
find him an interesting podcastguest too, because his team were
the innovators that beganlooking at all of the technology
and looking at how can we domore, and they settled on
(15:57):
immersion therapy.
So they may be a great guestfor you as well.
Jerrod Jeffries (16:01):
Thank you for that, and so just so I'm clear
too, that was a great examplewith the phobia.
But you're also outsidehealthcare.
It's med tech, pharma defense,and was it aerospace.
Lynn Welch (16:11):
Defense and aerospace, and we also have a
wonderful sector of our businessfor leisure and entertainment
and we get to do some purely funwork for Universal Studios, a
really amazing and interestingaugmented reality projects.
That lets us flex our purecreative muscles.
(16:32):
And we also do quite a bit ofwork for Carnival Cruise Lines.
We've built digital twins ofquite a bit of their of their
cruise line chips down toextreme detail and they have a
really fascinating approach tointegrating that XR and the
digital twins across theiroperations globally.
(16:54):
So really a fascinating projectwhere we're bringing more
real-time information,artificial intelligence and
augmented reality to support dayto day operations and customer
facing workflows.
Jerrod Jeffries (17:09):
OK, that's.
That's incredible, I mean,because it's also spread so
different.
I mean I guess there's a lot ofoverlap in terms of platform
development or whatever else,but to be able to again, in your
words, stretch your creativeminds and put it in the leisure
place.
But it's all education,training, operations, at the end
of the day, in some way shapeor form.
(17:29):
But it's also still so relevantfor all these different areas.
Lynn Welch (17:33):
One of the things that really is common across all
of those is creating engagingworkspaces and engaging
therapeutic spaces, and we findthat the more experiential rich
any of those models are, thebetter the outcomes are, whether
it's a manufacturing workflow,quality assurance process, all
(17:56):
the way down to delivering acompletely different approach to
the customer experience.
Deb Tauber (18:02):
Now, Lynn , you talked about it being fun.
What can you specifically speakto?
Something that's really funabout it?
You have such a an incredibleamount of insight to this topic
of virtual reality, which formany of us is is really new.
And you know novel, sure, it'sbeen around, you know, when you
(18:23):
think about the conferences atIMSH and in NASCL and different
places, how the virtual realitything I mean, I just remember
maybe 67 years ago seeing it forthe first time, and now it's
just just so much faster, better, smarter, right.
Lynn Welch (18:40):
What's amazing from my perspective having first
jumped into the virtual worldwhen I was 21, and that was one
or two years ago yeah, Havingfirst jumped in then what I
really see as the real gamechanger is the ability to
generate content and sharecontent.
And to me, even up until themiddle of COVID, I was speaking
(19:02):
to a group of investors and theywanted to jump into the VR
space and I said throttle downon that, because access to
content is still a challenge.
Building content is expensive.
Sharing content is challenging.
Common content libraries stillare challenging to build and
very intensive and labor heavy.
(19:24):
They are expensive.
A lot of companies can't investin that, and one of the things
I quickly found that's happenedin my perspective over 18 months
is the rapid innovation of toolsets that anyone can use, that
are out of the box, driven by AI.
So generative content is here,it's accessible and you see
(19:47):
quite a few companies being ableto productize those and bring
those to the market.
We're going to see a hugegrowth in the ability to rapidly
generate and share scenarios,common model libraries, because
a lot of the innovation is herefor the generative AI.
Because a lot of the innovationis here for the generative AI.
We use a lot of it in our owntechnology stack and one of the
(20:08):
things we realized is ourclients, as they continue to
want to grow their patienttreatment modalities, for
therapists to build their ownscenarios, for clinicians to
customize their training.
We're seeing in a lot of ourwork with the med tech companies
we partner very closely with,we build out a lot of digital
twins of their devices, buildthose workflows.
(20:29):
Their clients are no longer, asdon't have as much of an
appetite for sending staff to atraining center, to a brick and
mortar training center, forthree or four days.
Three or four days if they canhave a virtual training tool
that augments that, they cansend a smaller number of staff
and then train more widely.
(20:49):
Those individuals trained inperson can come back, leverage
the VR tools and continue totrain the rest of their clinical
staff.
This is particularly usefulwhen, given the amount of
turnover you see in thehealthcare provider space and
being able to capture thattraining and scale it is
critically important to ourhealthcare systems.
So these are some areas wherewe see this rapidly growing.
(21:13):
Being able to include low-codescenario and model generation is
enormously helpful to lethealthcare systems customize the
training specific to their ownneeds at their own site.
And as we see our work with themed tech companies, they're
building these amazinginnovative technologies but they
(21:34):
significantly disrupt clinicalworkflows.
And being able to have thattraining tool that's a
just-in-time training tool whereyou can grab a headset, pop it
on during a break, get a littlefamiliar with what your role is
in, for example, setting up anOR room for a specific procedure
.
If you have a new device inthere, that's very disruptive.
(21:55):
You need to have some time topractice at your own pace so
you're comfortable setting thatOR up specifically for the
surgeon you're working with thatday, Customized for the
individual or for that room orenvironment and whatever else
and some of what we build forthe med tech companies.
(22:17):
It also lets their salespeople,when they're going into a
hospital client, be able toquickly build the 3D model of
what that particular let's sayit's a piece of lab equipment.
How is that going to fit inthat specific actual environment
?
Well, we build solutions wherethey can go in with an iPad.
They can scan a room quicklywith their camera on their iPad.
(22:38):
That entire 3D environment getsmodeled on the fly and they can
drop their device down insidethe client's actual setting so
they can actually runsimulations and understand.
Okay, this is how this piece oflab equipment is either going
to assist or create a challengein my existing workflows, both
(23:00):
from a logistics and operationalperspective, as well as a
staffing perspective.
Jerrod Jeffries (23:04):
Is there a pattern you find that it
actually creates more challengesor it makes it more efficient,
or is it just so dependent?
Lynn Welch (23:13):
Well, in the one MedTech client we build this
solution for, it's cut theirsales cycle down from over 12
months to three.
Oh, ok, yeah.
Deb Tauber (23:24):
And I can speak to from working in the emergency
department for so long.
If you were to have, you know,like the top 10 emergencies and
be able to practice just in thebreak room and using because
there's so much equipment to itputting in chest tubes, central
lines, all those high risk, lowfrequency events but to just be
able to put some goggles on and,kind of practice, walk through
(23:45):
it and then when the actualemergency comes in, you're
prepared.
Lynn Welch (23:51):
And where we start seeing all of our collective
work tie back together is theyounger workforce that's coming
in.
They're asking theirsupervisors why don't we have
this?
I had this in the sim lab.
Why don't we have this?
So they're expecting it, theydemand it, it's.
They don't want to spend hoursin a classroom, they don't want
(24:12):
death by PowerPoint.
They don't want these dryrefresher courses that they have
to have.
They want experiential learningwhen they have time and they
want to be able to measure theirown ability to apply it.
Deb Tauber (24:25):
The problem is the laggards right.
Lynn Welch (24:28):
Well, a rising tide right Raises all ships.
But one thing I truly believethat COVID, as awful and
terrible as it was, it hasaccelerated the adoption of
immersive learning.
It's pushed it forward fiveyears at least.
Deb Tauber (24:46):
Agree.
Lynn Welch (24:48):
And I think what's going to continue that
accelerated growth is thesupport and the tools we're
getting from the big techinvestment in immersive.
We continue to see just amazinggenerative AI tools coming out
every day.
I know in monitoring myinternal company communications,
we live on Slack and we are aglobal company, so we're fully
(25:10):
virtual and our team is all overthe world, but every single day
, one of my team is pulling in anew generative AI tool and
saying, hey, go try this.
And we use them every dayourselves.
And we've actually taken ourseven years.
We actually started in 2016.
So our seven plus years ofexperience, we've actually
(25:33):
created packages on all of ourbest design and development
practices and tools and we'reputting those out into a
subscription model availableplatform for our clients to pick
up what we've already built forthem and continue building on
their own.
Jerrod Jeffries (25:50):
Actually, I've learned so much during this
conversation, lynn, so thank you, because I also didn't know
there was this low to no code,almost models for creating
content.
I mean that to me is wherethere's such a heavy cost and
when it's streamlined, it'sreally, really helpful for,
obviously, the end user, but tobe able to easily digest that
(26:11):
and consume that as the end useris, of course, extremely
advantageous.
Lynn Welch (26:16):
The other innovation we've pushed out that I have to
say I'm the most excited aboutis what we've been doing with
artificial intelligence.
We do a lot of work withMedtronic.
They have a wonderful productfor intubation called the MAC
video laryngoscope and we hadbuilt a digital twin of that and
modeled eight differentpatients with different levels
(26:39):
of difficult airways, which wasa lot of sophisticated
algorithms to create that hapticfeedback.
As you're putting the McGrathdown in and going through the
motions, it also has realclinical data on the video
monitor of the actual patientwho had the difficult airway.
So you're kind of fusingreality with VR.
But one of the things wenoticed when we go to a lot of
(27:02):
conferences and events withMedtronic to help them present
this solution one of the thingswe noticed to a lot of
conferences and events withMedtronic to help them present
this solution One of the thingswe noticed is a lot of the
clinicians and the residentsthat would jump into the
experience.
At conferences like the AmericanSociety of Anesthesiology they
were asking questions in the VRheadset.
They would literally ask aquestion out loud while they're
in the VR headset and guess what?
(27:23):
Nobody's answering it.
There are prompts in the VRexperience but it's not
answering their specificquestion.
So we had the opportunity toteam with Dr Patrick Schroedker,
who's the worldwide expert invideo laryngoscope-assisted
intubation.
He's 30 years running theDepartment of Anesthesiology at
the University of Luzon and hasbeen teaching and driving their
(27:46):
curriculum.
He asked us what if you couldbottle my 30 years of knowledge?
So we created a digital twin ofDr Patrick and put him in the
experience and we worked withhim to build the logic database
for the artificial intelligenceengine behind him.
He now, when you have aquestion and you're in that
(28:08):
experience you ask Dr Patrick aquestion, he answers you, he
gives you additional referencesand this way we're making sure
when somebody has a question itdoesn't go unanswered and we're
also seeing the time to intubatesignificantly drop based on
that, and he watches what you'redoing, gives you a few hints.
So we find it fascinating thisconcept that you can bring that
(28:34):
attending physician in and scaleaccess to this critical
knowledge through theseartificial intelligence engines
backed by the correct logicdatabase.
Deb Tauber (28:46):
That's amazing, absolutely fascinating, but so
needed.
Lynn Welch (28:51):
And they're fast really Alex I mean.
One example of that sameconference last October I heard
Dr Patrick come up behind me.
We were in the middle ofworking on it.
I heard his voice and I heardhim in AI over and over again in
the experience.
So I told him, dr Patrick, andI heard him in AI over and over
again in the experience.
So I told him, dr Patrick, andhe wanted to refine the visuals
for him and refine his voice.
So my CEO, alex, who was therewith me, he walked around and
(29:13):
took one video walking aroundhim for maybe less than a minute
of video to get his microexpressions as he was talking.
We recorded three minutes ofhis audio, his micro expressions
as he was talking.
We recorded three minutes ofhis audio.
And I took off the next morningflying from San Francisco to
Orlando for virtual realityaugmented reality association
event down there.
(29:34):
And I got off the plane onMonday and got into the
restaurant to eat dinner.
On Slack it popped up andhere's all Dr Patrick fully
rendered.
They had remapped all of thenew characteristics and the new
voice.
Deb Tauber (29:49):
Wow.
Lynn Welch (29:50):
And that's in less than 24 hours.
This is how fast we can buildthese things because the tools
are becoming accessible, and Ithink that's what I'm most
excited about is we now have theability to really have no
limits in what we can create,produce and deliver.
Jerrod Jeffries (30:05):
That's insane.
Deb Tauber (30:06):
Thank you so much.
Is there anything you want toleave our listeners with Gosh?
So many things, but.
Lynn Welch (30:12):
I think the most important thing is to me none of
this continues to happen ifpeople like you and Jared you
know, you, deb and Jared andmyself and everyone else that's
in our simulation space keeppushing.
And I know there's a surgeonwho's just come out with a
really innovative surgicalprocedure that's leveraging the
(30:37):
Apple Vision Pro and he's justso dynamic and totally changing
how surgical workflows arehappening in operating rooms.
And Dr Masson said somethingthat I have stolen from him and
his recommendation is when yousee something really compelling,
you jump.
You jump hard.
So I told Robert I was going tomodify that Jump hard and reach
(31:00):
out and grab others and takethem over with you, yep.
Deb Tauber (31:04):
I like that.
Yeah, I love it, but we allneed to keep pushing hard.
Lynn Welch (31:07):
We've got the tools now, and now it's just really
driving those, driving thatinnovation forward, and we all
have the tools to do it.
It's just a matter of ourcommunities staying together and
staying focused and continuingto push, because I really feel
we have not even seen the startof where this is going.
Deb Tauber (31:27):
I agree.
Well, thank you solucidrealitylabs.
com and we appreciated havingyou very much and we will keep
in touch and if our listenerswant to get ahold of you for any
questions, where can they go,Lynn?
Lynn Welch (31:39):
They can go to our website at lucidrealitylabscom
and my email is really easy toremember.
Reach out to me on LinkedIn ormy email, which is lynnwelch at
lucidrealitylabscom.
Perfect.
Jerrod Jeffries (31:54):
Thank you.
This is fascinating, Lynn.
Really I love this.
Lynn Welch (31:58):
Thank you so much and have a great day.
I look forward to the nextpodcast too.
www.
(32:35):
innovativesimsolutions.
Disclaimer/ Innovative S (32:03):
Thanks , Thanks to Innovative Sim
Solutions for sponsoring thisweek's podcast.
Innovative Sim Solutions willmake your plans for your next
Sim Center a reality.
Contact Deb Tauber and her teamtoday.
(32:25):
Thanks for joining us here atthe Sim Cafe.
We hope you enjoyed.
Visit us atwwwinnovativesimsolutionscom and
be sure to hit that like andsubscribe button so you never
miss an episode.
Innovative Sim Solutions isyour one-stop shop for your
(32:46):
simulation needs.
A turnkey solution.
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