July 29, 2025 • 36 mins
What happens when artificial intelligence meets neurodivergent thinking? Magic, innovation, and life-changing tools for those who've always felt different.
Meet Derek Crager, a late-diagnosed autistic entrepreneur who spent decades feeling like "an alien here on Earth to observe" before discovering his neurotype at age 50. Now he's channeling his unique perspective into creating AI solutions specifically designed for the neurodivergent community.
Derek's journey from industrial construction worker to the creator of Amazon's highest-rated employee training program reveals how differently-wired brains can excel when given the right opportunities. Through his nonprofit "AI for Autistics," he's teaching non-programmers how to harness artificial intelligence to build websites, apps, and even launch their own businesses – all without writing a single line of code.
The conversation explores Derek's groundbreaking "Pocket Mentor" system, which transforms complex knowledge bases into accessible phone conversations. Imagine having 24/7 access to specialized autism support or workplace guidance through a simple phone call – no apps, internet connection, or technical skills required. For neurodivergent individuals who struggle with traditional employment, these tools create judgment-free spaces to ask questions that might otherwise lead to misunderstandings.
What makes Derek's approach revolutionary is his focus on knowledge accessibility as the key to true empowerment. "I'm looking at filling the knowledge gap," he explains, revealing how AI can transform lives when designed through a neurodivergent lens.
Whether you're autistic, support someone on the spectrum, or simply interested in how technology can create more inclusive spaces, this episode offers fresh perspectives on harnessing AI to amplify human potential. As Derek puts it: "Don't be scared of AI... it's about empowering the individual to make them irreplaceable."
Visit practicalai.app to connect with Derek's community and discover resources for neurodivergent individuals interested in exploring AI.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The SJ Child Show is Backford's 13th season.
Join Sarah Bradford and the SJChild Show team as they explore
the world of autism and sharestories of hope and inspiration.
This season we're excited tobring you more autism summits
featuring experts and advocatesfrom around the world.
Go to sjchildsorg to donate andto get more information.
(00:25):
Congratulations on 2024's20,000 downloads and 300
episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi, welcome today to the SJ Child Show.
It's so nice to be here.
I have a wonderful guest tobring you today.
We're going to have a reallyinformative and engaging
conversation.
You guys are going to love this.
I just know it.
So yeah, tune in.
This is Derek Crager.
Hopefully I pronounced thatright.
(00:53):
I'm very phonetic.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
No, it's all good, sarah, thank you.
And with a name like Derek, Igrew up not knowing who I was,
because when I'd introducemyself, especially in a noisy
environment, they'd say Eric,darren, daryl, and then a lot of
times they just go Craig.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, wow.
So yeah, you've been throughthat.
That's interesting and for meand this is something that we'll
definitely touch on more andreally dive deep but I have
outer ear microtia, I have theselittle ears, and so guess what
(01:39):
people called me Little ears?
And I was known for my physicalfeature of my most embarrassing
and not wanting to everyone topay attention to feature.
And isn't that interesting thatwe kind of get labeled and tied
into these ideas of otherpeople and how they perceive us
(02:03):
and then we really hold ontosome of those things and attach
those things to ourselves whenwe're little and I know that you
are a late diagnosed autisticADHD, just like myself.
So, having that kind ofintrospection to go back and
(02:24):
look and say all of those yearsI felt so different from
everyone else, like, I say, likea unicorn in, like a horse
pasture, and I thought it wasbecause of this physical
difference that I had.
You know that little did I knowit was my brain, my thinking,
the way people, my aura, maybewho knows right, is that
(02:47):
affected by it?
So, yeah, I think it's reallywe have to kind of give grace to
that time, that era of ourlives, where we just kind of
held on to those things.
Held on to those things andhopefully, like you and I, when
(03:08):
we were able to perceive thingsfrom a different vantage point,
we could kind of do away withthose ideas and realize we were,
we are who we are, that we knowwe are now, you know, kind of a
thing.
Well, that wasn't too deep andconfusing, but not for you, I
know that.
So tell us about yourexperience, introduce yourself,
and then we'll dive deep intothis conversation.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well, thanks, sarah, that whole do I know who I am?
And I told my wife just lastweek.
I said I feel like an adult forthe first time.
And she says well, what do youmean?
And I said, well, I feel likeI'm doing adult things.
And I said, well, I feel likeI'm doing adult things.
And my realization of late wasthat I think, for the first time
(03:50):
in my life, I feel I do knowwho I am.
It took me 50, some years to gethere, but growing up, being
different right, for want of themultiple words that are out
(04:11):
there that we define ourselvesand others define us as but
being different and then havingtruly having a name like Derek,
I think our names do defineourselves.
I think it's important to haveunderstanding, when we name a
child, the impact that name has.
And I think part of the thatrug being pulled out from
(04:36):
underneath my feet while I'mtrying just to exist in life,
which is hard enough, was thatyou know who am I.
You know, am I Derek, eric,darren?
And then I still get this Craig, even after I speak with
somebody, and I send an emailand they reply back.
They say thanks, craig, which Ijust assume is right, the last
part of my name is Craig.
(04:58):
Anyway, I did grow up different.
I always, you know, felt that Ienvied the school children that
had friends, and I lived out inthe country, so that made my
travel a little bit.
In our neighborhood was uh fourmiles to go around our square
(05:28):
and each one of us had aboutfive acres that we grew up on
and I was able to, um, do a lotof stuff outside.
You know, woods and uh creeknearby, um, but I never really
had a friend.
I think I had uh one person forabout two years until he moved
away, roger Decker, to Florida,and I was left here in Indiana.
(05:51):
But I always felt like I wasdoing something wrong.
Do I just not understand?
Do I not get jokes?
And so I really truly felt likean alien that was just here on
Earth to observe, and I've heardother people say that.
(06:13):
So after high school I went tocollege because that's what
we're supposed to do and nobodyelse in my family had ever gone
to college and I didn't know whyI was going to college, but I
was on my own, so I had to, hadto pay my bills and eat.
So I ended up getting a job andworked through an
(06:36):
apprenticeship.
Apprenticeship is a skilledtrade position that takes four
years to go through, so it's onthe job training.
There are some headlines thatyou see from time to time.
You know why go to college andcome out and make a minimum wage
when you can go through a fouryear apprenticeship and come out
and make it one hundred onehundred twenty thousand dollars
a year?
(06:56):
So back then I it was reallythat I mean for a turn of a
phrase, a man's, man's worldtype of thing, and being
different was not a friend to me.
So I think I learned quicklyand adapted quickly and my
entire life I'm still at thisrole of it feels not natural to
(07:22):
have a friend, so to speak.
So I think I've built all thesesubroutines in my life to, in
this situation, do this in thissituation do that.
But to zoom to where I'm attoday, sarah, I did industrial
construction for quite a while,worked with US automotive
(07:45):
manufacturers for about 15 years.
I ended up being a serialentrepreneur, which, when
anybody uses the termentrepreneur, I do.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I do, I see serial entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Oh my gosh, I don't know if anybody else says that.
Darren, we're doing it.
I'm crazy, right now Iliterally.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I never said successful.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's okay.
Serial entrepreneur a hundredpercent.
And you know what that means.
I know what that means, I liveit.
I live that.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, sarah, for me it was.
I was just trying to buyfriends.
I really think so.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I do something neat and I'd invite people to the
party and and uh, and sometimesit worked out and, honestly, on
several times it did not.
But uh, um, I did end upbuilding a largest business of
its type back from 2000 to 2010.
Um, and then I went back inemployment.
(08:47):
I worked automotive and foodmanufacturing for a bit, ended
up going from working with myhands to being an engineer, and
then process engineer and thenlearning and I finished up.
I left Amazon last year afterhalf a decade and I was on their
you, oh, they call RMEReliability, maintenance and
(09:12):
Engineering team on theirlearning team.
So I built Amazon's highestrated employee training program
in Amazon Global History and Ireally, truly believe that it's
because I understand peoplebetter than most do, because I
(09:32):
was put behind that proverbialeight ball so many times in my
life.
I anticipate that cringe and Ireally built the training on
communication and understandingof each other.
You know, building a bridge oftrust and respect is what I
(09:52):
called it.
So that was through last yearand then and now here I am.
Now I'm just kind of doing myown thing again.
You know that entrepreneurbusiness mindset.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I love that.
Oh yeah, that I sometimes saythat I'm just a Jane of all
things because I've done so manydifferent careers a, you know,
forever child, if you will thenI knew that I needed to make
connections somehow, becausethat's like, in fact, my husband
(10:40):
just said it to someoneyesterday my wife is like a
people collector.
She collects people and friendsand connections and I like that
.
I thought that was really cutethat he said that, because I
want people to have betteropportunities and I see, through
the connection of people, howthat can happen and so I love to
(11:00):
put that into work, you know,and see the spark happen like
that and I think that kind oflike you said, even going
through all of those differenttrades, you really learn how to
assess all of the types ofpeople around you and I can
completely appreciate andunderstand that.
(11:21):
And now that you are kind of onthis other side of it all, what
goals would are you going to beworking on next, like what's
next for you in the upcomingtime?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
well, I, uh, I think, uh, my life leading up to uh
diagnosis, uh, eight years ago,when I was 50, it was all about
trying to find myself and tryingto put up guards or defenses uh
, to protect myself.
So I was always reactive and,tying into that, I feel like an
(11:57):
adult.
For the first time in my life,I feel like I'm doing something
more proactive.
Someone asked me this morningif there's one word that would
describe your life you'd want toleave here when you're gone.
What would it be?
And I said teacher.
(12:32):
And I didn AI.
Today, I'm not an AI companyand I, we we kind of have a
laugh because those thatactually are using AI to build
something, we don't callourselves an AI company.
I mean, ai is just a tool andthose people are just doing that
.
I'm an AI company.
(12:52):
Well, are you really?
You know, it sounds like you'rejust focused on the buzzword
rather than a process or aproduct, so a nonprofit that I
have AI for Artistics it's at nocost, anybody that wants to
(13:13):
attend.
We talk about how to use AI toreally create their own business
.
Use AI for non-programmers towrite programs and mobile apps
and websites and our people ishow I refer.
I think a lot of us do.
(13:34):
Our people don't have stellar,stellar reputations for working
a job and staying in a job along time a union job, where I
(13:59):
would have been pushed out muchsooner if it wasn't a union role
.
Beyond that, if I got two orthree years at a business, it
felt like a long time.
So what I'm doing today andmoving forward, it's all about
filling the knowledge gap.
It's all about filling theknowledge gap.
I've built a cool tool.
I think, that if we want tosound like really out there, it
(14:19):
allows anybody to tap into theAkashic records.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Oh really oh we are going deeper today.
Oh, yes, all right, I like this, I like this, wow.
And I mean, not a lot of peopleknow what the acoustic records
are, so, let's, maybe we don'tneed to tell them because this
isn't that kind of a podcast.
But if you want to know now youcan do your own research and go
(14:43):
find out what that means foryourself.
I've had reading, a readingdone, so that's fascinating and
I love that.
And wow, wow, okay, my brain'slike going.
The little you know brain emojithat's what is it?
The little brain explosionemoji just happened.
Pardon my stumbling over mywords.
(15:04):
Now I'm too excited, now I'mfangirling over Derek here.
I love AI and I use it every day, maybe not every.
I use it every time I open mycomputer.
It's.
You know, some days when I'mtaking a break I might not, but
in general, I have found thatthe access, the time management,
(15:29):
the productivity that I've hadhas been just 800%.
You know there's.
It's ridiculous how much it hassaved me in time in you know,
this last event that I had, thesecond annual International
Autism Summit.
Excuse me, I spent probablyhalf as much time in having to
(15:54):
categorize, organize, schedule,37 speakers.
Really, it's hard.
It's hard to and I also use itto help me.
(16:18):
You know, I ask it maybe like,hey, I have this new plant, what
watering, you know, scheduleshould I use or whatever it is
all it's, it's just soultimately can cover so many
areas that I guess executivefunctioning, like a lot of us,
(16:38):
have trouble really managingthose types of things, and this
can give you such just laid out,step-by-step, easy.
When something is too hard, Isay break it down.
I don't understand what youjust said.
Give it to me in easy steps,you know.
And bam, just gives it to me ineasy steps.
(17:00):
I kind of have a joke with mydaughter, my husband, that if AI
ever takes over they'll let melike they'll never take over me.
I'm like so good friends withthem.
Now you know they're like we'rebringing Sarah with us here.
We can.
You know she's a part of us.
So, yeah, I could have, but I Ilove that we're using something
(17:21):
that is a tool in a positiveway that can help structure
structure, if you will,structure structure for
individuals that have a reallyhard time otherwise doing so.
How do you?
Are you getting the informationto the folks through the
(17:43):
nonprofit, like email or website.
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
It's a.
I actually shifted platformsearlier this year from Discord,
which has its own tools, to adedicated community, and the
community is the way you log in.
Everybody has their accounts.
I mean you can use your realname or made up name, so I mean
we're not tracking anything likethat.
(18:08):
But there's different roomswith different topics that you
can talk in and talk about.
But there's different roomswith different topics that you
can talk in and talk about, andyou can make posts, just like
you can on Facebook and LinkedInand things like that.
It just happens to be where,like minded people do it, it's
(18:30):
can can.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I share the domain, please.
Oh, I'll make sure to type itup, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So if you want to go right to the community, it's,
it's practical AI.
Dot APP slash community.
So practical AI.
There's the phonetics for you.
And then dot APP Paul, paulforward slash community.
And I think I even tell alittle bit of a story on that
(18:57):
page before you can click andlog in and all that.
Oh, that's brilliant.
Oh, my gosh, did I get it?
Look at that, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I like that.
I have a legal background, so Igot these fast typing skills.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Um, and did I answer yourquestion?
Where were we going with this?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
that's okay this is perfect.
This is perfect.
We just keep going.
We move with this show, right?
We don't.
There's no, there's noboundaries here.
Okay, well, there's some, butyou know, not in, not in
conversations, we would justflow.
But yeah, tell us about thecommunity and what happens when
people are in there.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
It's like any other platform.
It's asynchronous, so you cango in, et cetera.
Every now and then I'll do alive I don't know example, you
know share my screen and talkthrough things.
It's focused on it's.
It's AI, for autistics is theother domain that you can go
(20:06):
into, but it's not just a.
It's not just a which, by theway, ai, artificial intelligence
I do have a dual meaning there,because I look at AI as being
an autistic individual, but,that said, I use neurodiverse
more than autism or even ASDtype of thing.
(20:29):
There's so many labels out there.
I really follow what Dr NancyDoyle says when she talks about
spiky profile and just becausewe're classified as a group,
some of us have focus skills,some of us have high level
skills and some of us can zoomup and down and we do different
(20:50):
things well, but we don't doeverything well.
So the community itself isfocused around using AI as a
tool.
So you mentioned how you use AIfor a tool with our primary.
I've used the word focus a lot.
(21:12):
I noticed that I've got a boardin the back of my mind.
Kathy, you've used focus toomany times.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Isn't that funny.
My husband used to make me putit on a board in front of me and
like write it on a whiteboard.
When I first started podcasting.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So the goal of what we do is to use technology to
teach non-programmers how toprogram.
And I think my record I waspresenting to a nonprofit
community called Perscalus,which is a they educate people
and I said, well, let me trysomething.
(21:46):
So I typed into this prompt.
I said create a tic-tac-toegame.
And that's all I said.
And the AI was smart enoughthat it did its background and
its research and all of a suddenon the screen all these file
names started appearing andevery time a file name appeared
there'd be a window next to itwhere it was writing code for
(22:07):
that file name.
So in a matter of about threeminutes it created an entire
tic-tac-toe game that wasavailable at a dedicated URL and
I shared it with the group andwe started playing tic-tac-toe
like within five minutes, and itwas.
It was just a neat example, butpeople are doing all kinds of
(22:29):
things on programming andprogrammers are using AI as a
tool to like to get past themundane.
You know, create so many, thebasic file structure, and then
myself I don't consider myself aprogrammer, I'm more of a
friendly hacker.
Going back to the 1980s, I usedto write some programs in BASIC
(22:54):
and save them on an audiocassette and then put the
cassette in an envelope and mailit to Texas Instruments, and
for every program that I wrote,they would send back my choice
of five programs.
So basic programming, I couldn'teven say I was a basic
programmer.
But today, using AI and throughnatural language, you can say
(23:17):
things like oh, can you make thebackground blue instead of red?
Can you increase that font size?
Can you put together for thebusiness people out there a
squeeze page, you know, withthese topics, and can you create
an about us page?
And it just does it justthrough talking.
(23:38):
And one thing that I recommend,and it's a tool that I use
every time I ask AI to dosomething, I always finish it
with ask me clarifying questionsbefore proceeding, and that way
it allows the AI to understandbetter what I want it to do, and
(24:06):
it's something that doesn'thappen in real life.
It allows me to rephrase what Iwant to come across with closer
to the goal.
Come across with closer to thegoal.
It's a whole impact, or intentversus impact, which in real
life kind of has failed ourpeople.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, I still say I'm asking clarifying questions.
But yeah, it's funny, boy, howdid we, how did we not, you know
, been friends all this time?
We have so much in common, sofunny.
Oh my gosh, I love thoseprojects and your missions that
(24:45):
you're working on.
You know there's a huge gap inemployment opportunity, a social
opportunity for autistics, andbeing able to create a community
for adults is is so important,because there's a zillion, you
(25:07):
know, kids programs out there,but when it comes to adults,
sometimes it's harder to findthose structured programs, and
especially for people likeprogrammers that want to speak
the same language with oneanother.
And I find that so refreshing.
And thank you, thank you somuch for building a community
(25:31):
like that and sharing theinformation.
Like you said, information issuch a powerful, powerful thing
to want to possess, and we havea quote that we say a little bit
of knowledge will turn fearinto understanding and it can
really help people out,especially to help understand
(25:55):
their kiddo, their teenager,their adult autistic and, you
know, for parents or serviceproviders that might be
listening, this is a greatopportunity to share this
information with thoseindividuals that will benefit.
So please do so, please sharethis, share this with them.
(26:20):
What is kind of your hope forthe future of AI, for autistics
and the nonprofit, everything?
What's your hope moving forward?
What do you see like happening?
You're really big picture.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
There's a phrase that people like to throw around
empowering the individual, butum, uh, the best I've ever seen
that actually in use is is bygiving somebody the power to
make their own choices.
All right, but still, ifthey're making their own choices
and there's no judgment, that'shuge, but if they don't have
(27:02):
the knowledge to make thosetheir own choices.
So what I'm looking at is atool that I have.
It's called Pocket Mentor andit's your phone.
It sticks in your pocket.
It's not an app, I, it's.
It's taken AI, leveraging allthe good things from AI,
(27:22):
filtering out all the barriers,which is like internet access
and apps and app permissions andwifi and internet access.
So it's just taken an actualtelephone number.
Like when I was in grade school,I used to call the library and
listen in to the story of theweek and it was a story, right,
(27:43):
that was.
That was our internet, waslistened to audio over a
telephone.
But I built something that cantake a knowledge base, a
specific topic, and I'mprogramming it into a phone
number and then now theempowerment that we're giving
humans of all ages is theability to talk to a virtual
(28:10):
agent that is knowledgeable,that has the most knowledge in
the world on any one topic andit's not a let me call chat GPT
and just ask about anything.
It's not an Alexa there'slimitations to that because it's
trying to filter knowledge fromthe world.
(28:32):
So what we do?
We take knowledge from theworld.
So what we do, we?
We take knowledge and, forexample, I'm there's, there's
enterprise business use casethat I'm, I'm looking to grow a
business wise, but I have a, adoctor, that has a autistic
family practice and I'm buildingout and I'm I'm giving it to
(28:55):
her because I think knowledgeshould be free.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I love that.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
The way it looks like is that I'm taking her training
regimen, her guidelines,everything.
If you could think about itlike training the trainer, like
if you're teaching somebody toteach what you do.
We do that with AI.
We put all this knowledge in abox and then, once we have it in
a box, I assign a phone numberto it and I put guardrails on it
(29:25):
so the AI only speaks from thatbox and we've got a very
friendly supportive and unlikemy parents, you know parents
grown up patient and so there'svoice.
It sounds human and even thoughwe know it's ai, we acknowledge
it's ai.
(29:45):
There's this anthropomorphic umexperience.
It sounds like a human.
So when this autistic coachisn't available because her time
is limited, she does familyevery week and there's only so
many hours in a day.
This encapsulates all hertraining and it's available 24
(30:09):
hours a day and even though itdoesn't respond 100%, and even
though it doesn't respond 100%,like the doctor does, it
responds at 89% and it fills thegap when it's like 2 am on a
Saturday morning, Saturday night, type of thing to ask questions
(30:32):
and help get child and parentthrough the day.
I'm having a rough time and thisis what I see empowerment to
the individual, giving them thefree choice to make their own
decisions, but making sure theyhave that knowledge that they
have, that they need to make agood decision.
And it's a singularity point inknowledge.
(30:57):
I mean we know that we can typeright, type into our phone, our
laptop, our computer and getanswers, but it takes so long to
do this, it takes so long tocome back and it doesn't feel
like a human, it feels like acomputer, but over the phone,
hands-free, we just have ourearbuds in and you know, I just
(31:18):
say you know, call for help, andit dials that knowledge base
and it talks the person throughand whatever that is.
And in the employment world ourpeople have tough unemployment
because the questions that weask don't align with questions
typical employees do.
(31:39):
So it catches the managers andthe supervisors and colleagues
off base, off guard, becausethey don't understand why we're
asking these questions, becausesome of them like that's obvious
, why don't you know that?
And then there's other ones.
(32:02):
Oh, that's insightful, but butanyway, it's a way that we can
have to go from one size fitsall down to a one size fits one
trainer.
So any employee onboardingexperience, they can talk to
this telephone and they can walkthrough and have their private
tour onboarding to that companyand they have a much higher
(32:24):
employment rate after that.
They're not at there, theydon't feel judged by asking
questions because they'retalking to.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, it's so powerful and and sohelpful.
And for those of you who don'tuse it, feel free, Derek, if you
don't mind.
Do you have socials or emails?
People can reach out to you orshould they go to the website?
Let's help these people findthe AI that works best for them
and teach the people how to useit, and I think that that's
(32:53):
fascinating.
And where do you send someoneBecause I know it's mostly for
the programmers and things whenwould you send kind of the
working moms and dads to gostart their basic knowledge of
AI so that they can startgetting on board with that?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Well, that tool that I just described you can access
at practicalaiapp, that samedomain that I shared earlier,
and I had the community there,which is the nonprofit side.
But if you just go back to thatroot domain, I put as many use
(33:32):
cases as possible in there andmajority of it is business,
because it's a business that I'mrunning.
But there's different use casesfor individuals and I have some
for schools.
It's how to learn after schoolis out, and I have another post
(33:54):
that talks about why educationis failing today.
We just learn differently andwe each learn uniquely.
So they can connect with methrough that website.
They can find me on LinkedInjust by plugging in my name.
There's not a lot of DerekCrager's out there.
(34:19):
But if you have a use case, if Ican help you out, if you have a
child or a cousin or a brotheror sister that wants to learn
how to program, go to thecommunity link as well.
But my ears are open.
I love to communicate withpeople and help.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you so much, derek.
It's been such a greatconversation.
I knew it would be.
I was really looking forward toit.
Um yeah, any advice you want togive to everyone for AI, like,
give us your big tagline, yourAI tagline.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Well, I'll.
I'll say don't be scared of AIand it's and don't worry about
you're going to miss it anddon't worry that's going to take
over your life.
Um, the way that AI, the waythat I see AI turning in um into
is is an empowering theindividual to make them
irreplaceable.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I love that.
Thank you so much for your workthat you're doing in the
community and for your timetoday, and I'd love to have you
back on and we can dive deeper.
Today we didn't even like talkabout your diagnosis and all of
those things that you know wewould normally talk about.
(35:36):
It was just too exciting.
But we'll we'll have you backon and we'll we'll go deeper and
talk about some more things andmaybe by then you'll have done
five more apps or something youknow things for people.
So, yeah, great to have you onand I really look forward to
staying in touch.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Well, sarah, you're wonderful, your show's wonderful
, everything that you do is justwonderful.
So I appreciate I'm sureeveryone in the community
appreciates everything that youdo.
So thank you for having me hereand I look forward to the next
time we speak.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Absolutely.
The SJ Child Show is Backford's 13th season.
Join Sarah Bradford and the SJChild Show team as they explore
the world of autism and sharestories of hope and inspiration.
This season we're excited tobring you more autism summits
featuring experts and advocatesfrom around the world.
Go to sjchildsorg to donate andto get more information.
(00:25):
Congratulations on 2024's20,000 downloads and 300
episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi, welcome today to the SJ Child Show.
It's so nice to be here.
I have a wonderful guest tobring you today.
We're going to have a reallyinformative and engaging
conversation.
You guys are going to love this.
I just know it.
So yeah, tune in.
This is Derek Crager.
Hopefully I pronounced thatright.
(00:53):
I'm very phonetic.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
No, it's all good, sarah, thank you.
And with a name like Derek, Igrew up not knowing who I was,
because when I'd introducemyself, especially in a noisy
environment, they'd say Eric,darren, daryl, and then a lot of
times they just go Craig.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, wow.
So yeah, you've been throughthat.
That's interesting and for meand this is something that we'll
definitely touch on more andreally dive deep but I have
outer ear microtia, I have theselittle ears, and so guess what
(01:39):
people called me Little ears?
And I was known for my physicalfeature of my most embarrassing
and not wanting to everyone topay attention to feature.
And isn't that interesting thatwe kind of get labeled and tied
into these ideas of otherpeople and how they perceive us
(02:03):
and then we really hold ontosome of those things and attach
those things to ourselves whenwe're little and I know that you
are a late diagnosed autisticADHD, just like myself.
So, having that kind ofintrospection to go back and
(02:24):
look and say all of those yearsI felt so different from
everyone else, like, I say, likea unicorn in, like a horse
pasture, and I thought it wasbecause of this physical
difference that I had.
You know that little did I knowit was my brain, my thinking,
the way people, my aura, maybewho knows right, is that
(02:47):
affected by it?
So, yeah, I think it's reallywe have to kind of give grace to
that time, that era of ourlives, where we just kind of
held on to those things.
Held on to those things andhopefully, like you and I, when
(03:08):
we were able to perceive thingsfrom a different vantage point,
we could kind of do away withthose ideas and realize we were,
we are who we are, that we knowwe are now, you know, kind of a
thing.
Well, that wasn't too deep andconfusing, but not for you, I
know that.
So tell us about yourexperience, introduce yourself,
and then we'll dive deep intothis conversation.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well, thanks, sarah, that whole do I know who I am?
And I told my wife just lastweek.
I said I feel like an adult forthe first time.
And she says well, what do youmean?
And I said, well, I feel likeI'm doing adult things.
And I said, well, I feel likeI'm doing adult things.
And my realization of late wasthat I think, for the first time
(03:50):
in my life, I feel I do knowwho I am.
It took me 50, some years to gethere, but growing up, being
different right, for want of themultiple words that are out
(04:11):
there that we define ourselvesand others define us as but
being different and then havingtruly having a name like Derek,
I think our names do defineourselves.
I think it's important to haveunderstanding, when we name a
child, the impact that name has.
And I think part of the thatrug being pulled out from
(04:36):
underneath my feet while I'mtrying just to exist in life,
which is hard enough, was thatyou know who am I.
You know, am I Derek, eric,darren?
And then I still get this Craig, even after I speak with
somebody, and I send an emailand they reply back.
They say thanks, craig, which Ijust assume is right, the last
part of my name is Craig.
(04:58):
Anyway, I did grow up different.
I always, you know, felt that Ienvied the school children that
had friends, and I lived out inthe country, so that made my
travel a little bit.
In our neighborhood was uh fourmiles to go around our square
(05:28):
and each one of us had aboutfive acres that we grew up on
and I was able to, um, do a lotof stuff outside.
You know, woods and uh creeknearby, um, but I never really
had a friend.
I think I had uh one person forabout two years until he moved
away, roger Decker, to Florida,and I was left here in Indiana.
(05:51):
But I always felt like I wasdoing something wrong.
Do I just not understand?
Do I not get jokes?
And so I really truly felt likean alien that was just here on
Earth to observe, and I've heardother people say that.
(06:13):
So after high school I went tocollege because that's what
we're supposed to do and nobodyelse in my family had ever gone
to college and I didn't know whyI was going to college, but I
was on my own, so I had to, hadto pay my bills and eat.
So I ended up getting a job andworked through an
(06:36):
apprenticeship.
Apprenticeship is a skilledtrade position that takes four
years to go through, so it's onthe job training.
There are some headlines thatyou see from time to time.
You know why go to college andcome out and make a minimum wage
when you can go through a fouryear apprenticeship and come out
and make it one hundred onehundred twenty thousand dollars
a year?
(06:56):
So back then I it was reallythat I mean for a turn of a
phrase, a man's, man's worldtype of thing, and being
different was not a friend to me.
So I think I learned quicklyand adapted quickly and my
entire life I'm still at thisrole of it feels not natural to
(07:22):
have a friend, so to speak.
So I think I've built all thesesubroutines in my life to, in
this situation, do this in thissituation do that.
But to zoom to where I'm attoday, sarah, I did industrial
construction for quite a while,worked with US automotive
(07:45):
manufacturers for about 15 years.
I ended up being a serialentrepreneur, which, when
anybody uses the termentrepreneur, I do.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I do, I see serial entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Oh my gosh, I don't know if anybody else says that.
Darren, we're doing it.
I'm crazy, right now Iliterally.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I never said successful.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's okay.
Serial entrepreneur a hundredpercent.
And you know what that means.
I know what that means, I liveit.
I live that.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, sarah, for me it was.
I was just trying to buyfriends.
I really think so.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I do something neat and I'd invite people to the
party and and uh, and sometimesit worked out and, honestly, on
several times it did not.
But uh, um, I did end upbuilding a largest business of
its type back from 2000 to 2010.
Um, and then I went back inemployment.
(08:47):
I worked automotive and foodmanufacturing for a bit, ended
up going from working with myhands to being an engineer, and
then process engineer and thenlearning and I finished up.
I left Amazon last year afterhalf a decade and I was on their
you, oh, they call RMEReliability, maintenance and
(09:12):
Engineering team on theirlearning team.
So I built Amazon's highestrated employee training program
in Amazon Global History and Ireally, truly believe that it's
because I understand peoplebetter than most do, because I
(09:32):
was put behind that proverbialeight ball so many times in my
life.
I anticipate that cringe and Ireally built the training on
communication and understandingof each other.
You know, building a bridge oftrust and respect is what I
(09:52):
called it.
So that was through last yearand then and now here I am.
Now I'm just kind of doing myown thing again.
You know that entrepreneurbusiness mindset.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I love that.
Oh yeah, that I sometimes saythat I'm just a Jane of all
things because I've done so manydifferent careers a, you know,
forever child, if you will thenI knew that I needed to make
connections somehow, becausethat's like, in fact, my husband
(10:40):
just said it to someoneyesterday my wife is like a
people collector.
She collects people and friendsand connections and I like that
.
I thought that was really cutethat he said that, because I
want people to have betteropportunities and I see, through
the connection of people, howthat can happen and so I love to
(11:00):
put that into work, you know,and see the spark happen like
that and I think that kind oflike you said, even going
through all of those differenttrades, you really learn how to
assess all of the types ofpeople around you and I can
completely appreciate andunderstand that.
(11:21):
And now that you are kind of onthis other side of it all, what
goals would are you going to beworking on next, like what's
next for you in the upcomingtime?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
well, I, uh, I think, uh, my life leading up to uh
diagnosis, uh, eight years ago,when I was 50, it was all about
trying to find myself and tryingto put up guards or defenses uh
, to protect myself.
So I was always reactive and,tying into that, I feel like an
(11:57):
adult.
For the first time in my life,I feel like I'm doing something
more proactive.
Someone asked me this morningif there's one word that would
describe your life you'd want toleave here when you're gone.
What would it be?
And I said teacher.
(12:32):
And I didn AI.
Today, I'm not an AI companyand I, we we kind of have a
laugh because those thatactually are using AI to build
something, we don't callourselves an AI company.
I mean, ai is just a tool andthose people are just doing that
.
I'm an AI company.
(12:52):
Well, are you really?
You know, it sounds like you'rejust focused on the buzzword
rather than a process or aproduct, so a nonprofit that I
have AI for Artistics it's at nocost, anybody that wants to
(13:13):
attend.
We talk about how to use AI toreally create their own business
.
Use AI for non-programmers towrite programs and mobile apps
and websites and our people ishow I refer.
I think a lot of us do.
(13:34):
Our people don't have stellar,stellar reputations for working
a job and staying in a job along time a union job, where I
(13:59):
would have been pushed out muchsooner if it wasn't a union role
.
Beyond that, if I got two orthree years at a business, it
felt like a long time.
So what I'm doing today andmoving forward, it's all about
filling the knowledge gap.
It's all about filling theknowledge gap.
I've built a cool tool.
I think, that if we want tosound like really out there, it
(14:19):
allows anybody to tap into theAkashic records.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Oh really oh we are going deeper today.
Oh, yes, all right, I like this, I like this, wow.
And I mean, not a lot of peopleknow what the acoustic records
are, so, let's, maybe we don'tneed to tell them because this
isn't that kind of a podcast.
But if you want to know now youcan do your own research and go
(14:43):
find out what that means foryourself.
I've had reading, a readingdone, so that's fascinating and
I love that.
And wow, wow, okay, my brain'slike going.
The little you know brain emojithat's what is it?
The little brain explosionemoji just happened.
Pardon my stumbling over mywords.
(15:04):
Now I'm too excited, now I'mfangirling over Derek here.
I love AI and I use it every day, maybe not every.
I use it every time I open mycomputer.
It's.
You know, some days when I'mtaking a break I might not, but
in general, I have found thatthe access, the time management,
(15:29):
the productivity that I've hadhas been just 800%.
You know there's.
It's ridiculous how much it hassaved me in time in you know,
this last event that I had, thesecond annual International
Autism Summit.
Excuse me, I spent probablyhalf as much time in having to
(15:54):
categorize, organize, schedule,37 speakers.
Really, it's hard.
It's hard to and I also use itto help me.
(16:18):
You know, I ask it maybe like,hey, I have this new plant, what
watering, you know, scheduleshould I use or whatever it is
all it's, it's just soultimately can cover so many
areas that I guess executivefunctioning, like a lot of us,
(16:38):
have trouble really managingthose types of things, and this
can give you such just laid out,step-by-step, easy.
When something is too hard, Isay break it down.
I don't understand what youjust said.
Give it to me in easy steps,you know.
And bam, just gives it to me ineasy steps.
(17:00):
I kind of have a joke with mydaughter, my husband, that if AI
ever takes over they'll let melike they'll never take over me.
I'm like so good friends withthem.
Now you know they're like we'rebringing Sarah with us here.
We can.
You know she's a part of us.
So, yeah, I could have, but I Ilove that we're using something
(17:21):
that is a tool in a positiveway that can help structure
structure, if you will,structure structure for
individuals that have a reallyhard time otherwise doing so.
How do you?
Are you getting the informationto the folks through the
(17:43):
nonprofit, like email or website.
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
It's a.
I actually shifted platformsearlier this year from Discord,
which has its own tools, to adedicated community, and the
community is the way you log in.
Everybody has their accounts.
I mean you can use your realname or made up name, so I mean
we're not tracking anything likethat.
(18:08):
But there's different roomswith different topics that you
can talk in and talk about.
But there's different roomswith different topics that you
can talk in and talk about, andyou can make posts, just like
you can on Facebook and LinkedInand things like that.
It just happens to be where,like minded people do it, it's
(18:30):
can can.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I share the domain, please.
Oh, I'll make sure to type itup, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
So if you want to go right to the community, it's,
it's practical AI.
Dot APP slash community.
So practical AI.
There's the phonetics for you.
And then dot APP Paul, paulforward slash community.
And I think I even tell alittle bit of a story on that
(18:57):
page before you can click andlog in and all that.
Oh, that's brilliant.
Oh, my gosh, did I get it?
Look at that, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I like that.
I have a legal background, so Igot these fast typing skills.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Um, and did I answer yourquestion?
Where were we going with this?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
that's okay this is perfect.
This is perfect.
We just keep going.
We move with this show, right?
We don't.
There's no, there's noboundaries here.
Okay, well, there's some, butyou know, not in, not in
conversations, we would justflow.
But yeah, tell us about thecommunity and what happens when
people are in there.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
It's like any other platform.
It's asynchronous, so you cango in, et cetera.
Every now and then I'll do alive I don't know example, you
know share my screen and talkthrough things.
It's focused on it's.
It's AI, for autistics is theother domain that you can go
(20:06):
into, but it's not just a.
It's not just a which, by theway, ai, artificial intelligence
I do have a dual meaning there,because I look at AI as being
an autistic individual, but,that said, I use neurodiverse
more than autism or even ASDtype of thing.
(20:29):
There's so many labels out there.
I really follow what Dr NancyDoyle says when she talks about
spiky profile and just becausewe're classified as a group,
some of us have focus skills,some of us have high level
skills and some of us can zoomup and down and we do different
(20:50):
things well, but we don't doeverything well.
So the community itself isfocused around using AI as a
tool.
So you mentioned how you use AIfor a tool with our primary.
I've used the word focus a lot.
(21:12):
I noticed that I've got a boardin the back of my mind.
Kathy, you've used focus toomany times.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Isn't that funny.
My husband used to make me putit on a board in front of me and
like write it on a whiteboard.
When I first started podcasting.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
So the goal of what we do is to use technology to
teach non-programmers how toprogram.
And I think my record I waspresenting to a nonprofit
community called Perscalus,which is a they educate people
and I said, well, let me trysomething.
(21:46):
So I typed into this prompt.
I said create a tic-tac-toegame.
And that's all I said.
And the AI was smart enoughthat it did its background and
its research and all of a suddenon the screen all these file
names started appearing andevery time a file name appeared
there'd be a window next to itwhere it was writing code for
(22:07):
that file name.
So in a matter of about threeminutes it created an entire
tic-tac-toe game that wasavailable at a dedicated URL and
I shared it with the group andwe started playing tic-tac-toe
like within five minutes, and itwas.
It was just a neat example, butpeople are doing all kinds of
(22:29):
things on programming andprogrammers are using AI as a
tool to like to get past themundane.
You know, create so many, thebasic file structure, and then
myself I don't consider myself aprogrammer, I'm more of a
friendly hacker.
Going back to the 1980s, I usedto write some programs in BASIC
(22:54):
and save them on an audiocassette and then put the
cassette in an envelope and mailit to Texas Instruments, and
for every program that I wrote,they would send back my choice
of five programs.
So basic programming, I couldn'teven say I was a basic
programmer.
But today, using AI and throughnatural language, you can say
(23:17):
things like oh, can you make thebackground blue instead of red?
Can you increase that font size?
Can you put together for thebusiness people out there a
squeeze page, you know, withthese topics, and can you create
an about us page?
And it just does it justthrough talking.
(23:38):
And one thing that I recommend,and it's a tool that I use
every time I ask AI to dosomething, I always finish it
with ask me clarifying questionsbefore proceeding, and that way
it allows the AI to understandbetter what I want it to do, and
(24:06):
it's something that doesn'thappen in real life.
It allows me to rephrase what Iwant to come across with closer
to the goal.
Come across with closer to thegoal.
It's a whole impact, or intentversus impact, which in real
life kind of has failed ourpeople.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, I still say I'm asking clarifying questions.
But yeah, it's funny, boy, howdid we, how did we not, you know
, been friends all this time?
We have so much in common, sofunny.
Oh my gosh, I love thoseprojects and your missions that
(24:45):
you're working on.
You know there's a huge gap inemployment opportunity, a social
opportunity for autistics, andbeing able to create a community
for adults is is so important,because there's a zillion, you
(25:07):
know, kids programs out there,but when it comes to adults,
sometimes it's harder to findthose structured programs, and
especially for people likeprogrammers that want to speak
the same language with oneanother.
And I find that so refreshing.
And thank you, thank you somuch for building a community
(25:31):
like that and sharing theinformation.
Like you said, information issuch a powerful, powerful thing
to want to possess, and we havea quote that we say a little bit
of knowledge will turn fearinto understanding and it can
really help people out,especially to help understand
(25:55):
their kiddo, their teenager,their adult autistic and, you
know, for parents or serviceproviders that might be
listening, this is a greatopportunity to share this
information with thoseindividuals that will benefit.
So please do so, please sharethis, share this with them.
(26:20):
What is kind of your hope forthe future of AI, for autistics
and the nonprofit, everything?
What's your hope moving forward?
What do you see like happening?
You're really big picture.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
There's a phrase that people like to throw around
empowering the individual, butum, uh, the best I've ever seen
that actually in use is is bygiving somebody the power to
make their own choices.
All right, but still, ifthey're making their own choices
and there's no judgment, that'shuge, but if they don't have
(27:02):
the knowledge to make thosetheir own choices.
So what I'm looking at is atool that I have.
It's called Pocket Mentor andit's your phone.
It sticks in your pocket.
It's not an app, I, it's.
It's taken AI, leveraging allthe good things from AI,
(27:22):
filtering out all the barriers,which is like internet access
and apps and app permissions andwifi and internet access.
So it's just taken an actualtelephone number.
Like when I was in grade school,I used to call the library and
listen in to the story of theweek and it was a story, right,
(27:43):
that was.
That was our internet, waslistened to audio over a
telephone.
But I built something that cantake a knowledge base, a
specific topic, and I'mprogramming it into a phone
number and then now theempowerment that we're giving
humans of all ages is theability to talk to a virtual
(28:10):
agent that is knowledgeable,that has the most knowledge in
the world on any one topic andit's not a let me call chat GPT
and just ask about anything.
It's not an Alexa there'slimitations to that because it's
trying to filter knowledge fromthe world.
(28:32):
So what we do?
We take knowledge from theworld.
So what we do, we?
We take knowledge and, forexample, I'm there's, there's
enterprise business use casethat I'm, I'm looking to grow a
business wise, but I have a, adoctor, that has a autistic
family practice and I'm buildingout and I'm I'm giving it to
(28:55):
her because I think knowledgeshould be free.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I love that.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
The way it looks like is that I'm taking her training
regimen, her guidelines,everything.
If you could think about itlike training the trainer, like
if you're teaching somebody toteach what you do.
We do that with AI.
We put all this knowledge in abox and then, once we have it in
a box, I assign a phone numberto it and I put guardrails on it
(29:25):
so the AI only speaks from thatbox and we've got a very
friendly supportive and unlikemy parents, you know parents
grown up patient and so there'svoice.
It sounds human and even thoughwe know it's ai, we acknowledge
it's ai.
(29:45):
There's this anthropomorphic umexperience.
It sounds like a human.
So when this autistic coachisn't available because her time
is limited, she does familyevery week and there's only so
many hours in a day.
This encapsulates all hertraining and it's available 24
(30:09):
hours a day and even though itdoesn't respond 100%, and even
though it doesn't respond 100%,like the doctor does, it
responds at 89% and it fills thegap when it's like 2 am on a
Saturday morning, Saturday night, type of thing to ask questions
(30:32):
and help get child and parentthrough the day.
I'm having a rough time and thisis what I see empowerment to
the individual, giving them thefree choice to make their own
decisions, but making sure theyhave that knowledge that they
have, that they need to make agood decision.
And it's a singularity point inknowledge.
(30:57):
I mean we know that we can typeright, type into our phone, our
laptop, our computer and getanswers, but it takes so long to
do this, it takes so long tocome back and it doesn't feel
like a human, it feels like acomputer, but over the phone,
hands-free, we just have ourearbuds in and you know, I just
(31:18):
say you know, call for help, andit dials that knowledge base
and it talks the person throughand whatever that is.
And in the employment world ourpeople have tough unemployment
because the questions that weask don't align with questions
typical employees do.
(31:39):
So it catches the managers andthe supervisors and colleagues
off base, off guard, becausethey don't understand why we're
asking these questions, becausesome of them like that's obvious
, why don't you know that?
And then there's other ones.
(32:02):
Oh, that's insightful, but butanyway, it's a way that we can
have to go from one size fitsall down to a one size fits one
trainer.
So any employee onboardingexperience, they can talk to
this telephone and they can walkthrough and have their private
tour onboarding to that companyand they have a much higher
(32:24):
employment rate after that.
They're not at there, theydon't feel judged by asking
questions because they'retalking to.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, it's so powerful and and sohelpful.
And for those of you who don'tuse it, feel free, Derek, if you
don't mind.
Do you have socials or emails?
People can reach out to you orshould they go to the website?
Let's help these people findthe AI that works best for them
and teach the people how to useit, and I think that that's
(32:53):
fascinating.
And where do you send someoneBecause I know it's mostly for
the programmers and things whenwould you send kind of the
working moms and dads to gostart their basic knowledge of
AI so that they can startgetting on board with that?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Well, that tool that I just described you can access
at practicalaiapp, that samedomain that I shared earlier,
and I had the community there,which is the nonprofit side.
But if you just go back to thatroot domain, I put as many use
(33:32):
cases as possible in there andmajority of it is business,
because it's a business that I'mrunning.
But there's different use casesfor individuals and I have some
for schools.
It's how to learn after schoolis out, and I have another post
(33:54):
that talks about why educationis failing today.
We just learn differently andwe each learn uniquely.
So they can connect with methrough that website.
They can find me on LinkedInjust by plugging in my name.
There's not a lot of DerekCrager's out there.
(34:19):
But if you have a use case, if Ican help you out, if you have a
child or a cousin or a brotheror sister that wants to learn
how to program, go to thecommunity link as well.
But my ears are open.
I love to communicate withpeople and help.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you so much, derek.
It's been such a greatconversation.
I knew it would be.
I was really looking forward toit.
Um yeah, any advice you want togive to everyone for AI, like,
give us your big tagline, yourAI tagline.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Well, I'll.
I'll say don't be scared of AIand it's and don't worry about
you're going to miss it anddon't worry that's going to take
over your life.
Um, the way that AI, the waythat I see AI turning in um into
is is an empowering theindividual to make them
irreplaceable.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I love that.
Thank you so much for your workthat you're doing in the
community and for your timetoday, and I'd love to have you
back on and we can dive deeper.
Today we didn't even like talkabout your diagnosis and all of
those things that you know wewould normally talk about.
(35:36):
It was just too exciting.
But we'll we'll have you backon and we'll we'll go deeper and
talk about some more things andmaybe by then you'll have done
five more apps or something youknow things for people.
So, yeah, great to have you onand I really look forward to
staying in touch.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Well, sarah, you're wonderful, your show's wonderful
, everything that you do is justwonderful.
So I appreciate I'm sureeveryone in the community
appreciates everything that youdo.
So thank you for having me hereand I look forward to the next
time we speak.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Absolutely.
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