Why Your Spiritual Awakening Feels Stuck (and How to Move Through It)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hmmm, Karen, Yes, do you think right often?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Ah, gotta let me finish sometimes pause.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
You don't like pause? I know I don't, but still
you got to just let me finish.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
But Karen, yes, do you think world peace is something
we can just manifest? Oh?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
God, I wish it was. I so wish it was.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm talking like, if we all just collectively visualize holding
hands across the globe while burning sage and chanting ome
will fix politics, climate change and even Twitter.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Right, Well, you're saying if we all so, if everyone
was doing that, then yeah, there would just be no violence.
Everybody holding hands, everybody.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
I guess that's a I guess that's a good point.
If we're all holding hands, we can't actually fight, right exactly. Well,
today's guest he's got a radically different take, and it
might just be what we've all been waiting for. Oh see,
he says that unity isn't about everyone agreeing, it's about
something deeper. Oh seriously, just you thought you'd finally arrived

(01:02):
on your spiritual path, Boom, this guy shows up and whispers, Yeah,
but what if that's just your ego and a new
pair of yoga pants.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Damn it?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
He's an IVY League trained lawyer turned intuitive guide, a
literary scholar with a PhD who channels divine insight, and
he's got the receipts to prove it, awards, books, even
a Kundalini awakening that probably short circuited half the Eastern seaboard. Today,
we're digging into how season seekers get stuck into awakened identity,

(01:31):
why fighting for peace might be the biggest contradiction of
them all, why traditional activism sometimes works against spiritual wisdom,
and how your inner transformation might just be the missing
piece and the global unity puzzle.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You realize this is only like a forty five minute
show like three weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Well, spoiler alert, he's not here to just talk. He's
actually launching something powerful, and he's announcing it on the
show here with Us today, and he's even offering a
live reading for us on the air.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
That's exciting or scary.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
So yeah, if I start crying, don't judge me. Unless
it's like that beautiful cry, then record it in slow motion.
I've seen you cry, true, It's it's never beautiful. This
is definitely one of those you're not crazy, You're evolving
kind of episodes. To stay tuned because the skeptic metusician starts.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Now.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
My name is Will, and I'm garious, and unlike moulderin Scully.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Both want to believe.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
So we've embarked in a journey of discovery.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual metaphysical world.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
I even joined a coven of.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Witches and wait, you joined a coven?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yep, all the interests of finding something, anything that will
prove that there's something beyond this physical.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Three dimensional world we all live in.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
This is the skeptic metaphysicians. Hey there, I'm Will and
I'm caring.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Welcome back to the skeptic metasicians, where we don't just
talk the talk and we walk the walk, but.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
We're really we kind of just talk and day walk.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
I know.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Anyway, our guest today's now your average spiritual teacher. He's
a former professor and attorney whose journey from courtroom logic
to cosmic wisdom is anything but predictable. With multiple award
winning books, channel transmissions, and a gift for guiding others
through the fog of awakening, He's become a trusted voice
for those navigating the messy space between identity and soul.

(03:22):
He challenges a spiritual status quo with bold insights on
paradox ego traps and how seekers unknowingly stay stuck, all
while offering a deeply grounded path to enter peace and
collective healing. He's here to help us untangle awakening from
performance and maybe even show us a way to heal
the world from the insight out. Oh so, please welcome

(03:43):
Patrick Paul Carlinger to the show. Patrick, nice to see you.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Nice to see you. Thank you. I'm frankly now very
intimidated by the lead, and I don't know if I'm
having lost with this. Those are some amazing words. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Well, you know, we expect a lot from our guests,
and this is no different Patrick.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
You don't have just anybody on the sholf.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
All right, Well, Like like we always do, we just
want to dive right into the topic. And what really
caught my attention in all of this introduction and all
the research I did from you on you is that
you say that being stuck is often misdiagnosed as a
plateau when it actually could be a form of spiritual
bypassing what what like?

Speaker 3 (04:25):
What?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well your best questions?

Speaker 3 (04:32):
That was a great question. Okay, what do you mean
by that?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Patrick?

Speaker 3 (04:35):
I mean I like you, You've got this better than
I do. I want I want you to answer the question. Well,
I think you've got more better answers than I've got.
That was so well put.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Should we just replayed the intro exactly?

Speaker 3 (04:52):
So? Getting stuck? You know, people come to me all
the time they're like, I'm stuck, I'm stuck, I'm stuck.
And most of the time, you know, what they're stuck
with is some sense that what they're what they're what
they're going through, is like they shouldn't be going through this,
like they should be beyond this already. Yes here, that's right,

(05:13):
still doing this. Yeah, yeah, welcome to the human condition.
We're all yeah, but all stuck.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
But sometimes, but there's sometimes where you feel a lot
more connected than others. Right, There's there's and and and
a lot of times when you feel like you Okay,
I'm gonna just speak from my own personal experience. I've
been doing the show for a long time now, and
I feel like I should at least have my toe
stuck out of my body, but nothing nothing?

Speaker 3 (05:45):
So what is it? Why is it that my phone
is ringing when it should be on mute? Sorry about that?

Speaker 1 (05:54):
How is it that that no matter how much work
we do, it's still it still doesn't get us to
where we need to be?

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Mm right, well there's the first part, right. The first
problem is you know where we need to be? Like
where you need to be is are already? Like right away?
The question that's like in the way of like where
do you need to be? You've got some desire, you
want to be somewhere, you want to be somewhere else
where you are? Which did I mention I'm having a day?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I'm going to drop an edit point here.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
That's good, okay, sorry, So yeah, no, And most of
the time, you know, when when I work with people
and they come to me around being stuck whatever they're
claiming to be stuck in, right, Like, so sometimes instead
of what you said, I want to desire, I want
to be somewhere, I want to be experiencing bliss all

(06:45):
the time?

Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yes I do. Oh yeah, well yeah, you and me both.
I mean, you know, for all the Kundalini awakenings, and
you know, moments that I go into somebody and my
chakras are lit up. You know, I've got a thousand
other experiences. Is a you know, my emotions are here
and there, and yes, I'm fully aware of what's going on,
and yet I'm also really human, and so when things

(07:08):
get stuck, when things really like sort of hold on,
it's what it's just that's what needs to be given
attention to. And what I find this goes back to
your bypassingly, is we So many people are like they
want to move through it fast. They're like, this shows up. Wait,
I've got tools, I'm gonna heal it, I'm gonna rake it.
I'm calling in this say you know, archangel, I'm doing that. Like,

(07:32):
let's move it along. And sometimes what you really have
to do is just feel again and again and again.
And sometimes that sucks to be blonde. It just sucks
to be human.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Right right, So I hear what you're saying. But so
often we're told if you if you think that, if
you feel that, you know, if you let that fear
or whatever into your brain, you're going to manifest that,
and that's what's going to happen. Oh I love, that's scary.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, Well, you know I I love to throw that
one right into the dustbin of well, thank you, because
like that whole magnetic model, I'm just like everything you feel. Yeah,
if you went around believing it, nurturing it, holding on
to it. Oh where you know, whatever it is that
you're feeling, Oh yeah, you probably will manifest it. You're
putting out a lot of energy. If you're just feeling

(08:22):
it in your body, it's not going to happen. That
is one thing that happened. I'm glad you raised that, Kara,
because that's something that people do all the time. Manye
they feel it. Oh no, I'm gonna if I feel
a lot of anger, I'm going to like manifest something
I feel fear, I'm gonna manifest it. You know. Most
of the time, it's just there's something in us that
really wants to be felt, and so many spiritual people

(08:44):
get really caught up in lots of really fancy techniques,
want to move energy and do things like that and
get rid of it. You know, at one point in
the pandemic, I was super depressed weeks and weeks and weeks. Now,
of course it's a pandemic. You know, there's a lot
going on, but Basically I could not budge this. Nothing
would move, you know, all the techniques and prayer, et cetera.

(09:05):
And I finally just was like, oh yeah, I just
need to feel it. And I sat and I sat
and I sat, and finally I broke into like absolute
sobbing tears as this piece of me came up. It
was a ten year old self.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Well, when my parents got divorced, who said who is
going to take care of me? Because it was like
in the pandemic, everything's fallen apart, like you know, you
wonder And I was like, oh my god, there's this
little piece of me when my parents got divorced that
just needed to be hurt. And I wasn't gonna like

(09:45):
you know, archangel, Reiki, Matt, you know, that didn't need
to It didn't need to be moved, It needed to
be felt. So this is what I come to again
and again, is a lot of people back to your point,
will they bypassed it because we just don't want to
feel it, because we want to get back to feeling blissed.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Right, right, that's a perfect explanation of spiritual bypassing.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Right.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
It's not feeling into the shadows, it's just everything can
be fine, love and light, nothing's wrong, It's all good.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Right.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Sometimes you have to go through the shadow to get
the other side.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
But what if you get stuck in that feeling? You know?
Or are you stuck? I supposed to just be in
there for a certain apparent time I need to help.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
That's a great question, because the skill is learning how
to sort of touch it for a while and really
touch it, and then knowing when you are getting submerged
and you need to step back and you need to
sort of put it down for a little bit and
come back. And that's a skill that you know in
Buddhism and mindfulness, particularly around sort of touching this sort
of stuff gently and not getting subsumed by it. That

(10:45):
takes some That takes some skill as well.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
So is there such a thing as too much inner work?
Like when does he only become hiding?

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Ah beautifully put? Yeah, I mean I think that if
you are withdrawing from the world, not interacting with people.
And I know people like this won't name names, but
I know people in the world who are you know, teachers,
publisheds et cetera, who are just like, yeah, I can't

(11:16):
I don't want to deal with people. I just want
to do my inner work. And I was like, well,
you are the world. That doesn't mean you have to
interact with everyone, But you basically said, I'm going to
withdraw from the parts of me that are triggering me,
because that's what we do when we withdraw. So if
we're describing inner work as sitting in meditation, not interacting

(11:36):
with people, not engaging with things that trigger us, then
we're not We are really hiding, and we're actually hiding
from the parts of us that get triggered, which is
what we actually should be working on.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
All right, well I got a little work to do.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
I mean I kind of both do.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
So, I mean, would you recommend to someone, So, say,
someone is kind of in the situation where they're trying
to work on something and they're really feeling like they're
getting stuck in that emotional pit. I mean, should at
that point, should they reach out to someone like you
to help, or a therapist or their friends or just
kind of write it out.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah. Yeah. When I read people who've come to me
with stuck issue, it's usually that they can't quite see it,
and that's where you do benefit. You do need somebody
who can eliminate that perspective. And sometimes that can be
a therapist. People come to me and all the time
and then I'm like, oh, this, what's going on with
you is from this age or this say or this thing.
And sometimes it's it's a deep level trauma, you know,

(12:34):
it's like physical abuse, sexual abuse, something like that. That's
like I'll send somebody to a trauma dealer process.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I never thought about that. That's a perfect like complimentary,
like you know, Eastern Western medicine sort of thing, and
I can find what's going on and then you can.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Take care of It's cool.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I never thought of that symbiotic relationship.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, I mean some people like they don't realize that
they need to go to a therapist and or you know,
more often than not, what I find is that people
are like, well but I've I've healed that, and I'm like, okay,
you have free will and you have power, you have sovereignty,
But it doesn't read that way to me or.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Anyone else around you actually, right, I know people like that. Yeah,
not to name any names either, right exactly do you
mean to look at you? Sorry here, But sometimes it
just takes a shift in perspective to be like, oh, well,
this piece that's going on or this is just coming up,
you know, and again not to I'm incredibly careful about confidentiality,

(13:39):
but just to share to give a point.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
You know, I read somebody and this this memory kept
coming up, and it just was sort of this image.
It was just it kept resurfacing as I'm like tuning
in atos a person. I'm just keept getting this image
of you and this animal. And the person was like,

(14:01):
oh yeah, that was the one source of love when
I was a child, and then went on to describe
the family and the family life. Was like, whoa, that
wasn't even what was coming through. What was coming through
was this one memory. And then this client said, you know,
I often find this, these memories keep coming back, but

(14:22):
I just, you know, I'm not sure I'm really ready
to like that's what's happened. Like literally, these memories are
pulling in to say look at me. And so when
that person was stuck, is that the mind and the
body were telling them this is where we want to go.
Go back to the bypassing question, and I just had

(14:43):
to be blunts, like you got to do this work.
This is the stuff, like you know, whether it's with
a therapist or you just being honest, like, Okay, I
got to grapple with what mom and dad did to.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Me, right, And it comes down to the fact that
we've talked so many times about you can't just the
switch and become awakened. You have to do the work.
And so often do I go out there in the
world and feel i do a podcast about spiritual awakenings,
I'm very awakened, and only to realize I haven't done
Jack squat when it comes to all these interviews, and

(15:16):
so no wonder I'm stuck in the same damn place
I was when it first started. Right, I actually have
to put the work into it.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
I totally get it.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
You've done some work I have.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
You've done some work I have. You're dying You've done some.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Work I have, I have, I have, But I have
a long way to go, a lot more work to go.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
We all have. I've done so much work. And then
there are times I'm like, wait, this thing, it's still there,
and then we kind of go, yeah, it's still there. Okay,
another little layer, another little layerly hardwired, and you do
not have accept that part of yourself which is like, okay,

(15:53):
this is who I am. This is you know, and
not in a sort of like I'm fatalistic, like I'm stuck,
this is forever, right, But yeah, you know it's I
wish I wish more people could just be really honest,
especially people who people like me who put out books
and appear as guests on podcasts.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
We got our stuff, right, Yeah, I mean the epitome
of the cliche, right, is it the therapist that needs therapy.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
They say that a lot of therapists get into therapy,
into the therapy business because of their need for therapy,
and they get it for free. So maybe that, oh,
I just a new career path three you.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
But you know, we've interviewed hundreds of people, and we
do from time to time come across someone who said, well,
you know, it was I don't know, on a mountain
bike and had an accident or I was in a
car accident and then you know, all of a sudden,
I started hearing voices and I had this awakening experience.
And I mean, I'm jealous, except for the accident part.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
You know, I don't want that.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
But but what's your take on that? If they're not
necessarily doing work all of a sudden, you have an awakening.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah, you know, because that's not my experience. I mean,
I did have my own kind of like my life
fell apart. Who the lead me awakening is little Well,
that basically came later, and that was definitely a period
a moment of grace. But you know, I went through
you know, basically it's just like a mental breakdown and
was like what am I doing with my life? And

(17:25):
then all of a sudden, the universe started sending me.
You know, a friend of mine was like, oh, you
should go see this friend of mine who's a psychic.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
And I was like, oh yeah, And then all of
a sudden, all these Indian divine mother figures started showing
up and they're like you should go see this, and
all of a sudden, you know, just the world open up.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
But you know, it took me being basically beaten down
by life to the point where I was like what
is wrong with me? But I didn't have you know,
the near death experience, the accidents or whatnot, So I
can't speak to that other than the experience that I've had,
like the Kundalini awakening, which did come after a lot

(18:04):
of work, but completely unexpected unplaned for no desire attached
to It just happens. So I can't judge them for
their experience. But if it happens, it happens.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
But it's interesting what you just said, but both of you,
because you said some people will get into accidents or
having your death experience or something like that. Other people
have to hit rock bottom before these starts things start moving.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Beaten down by life, beaten down by a tree.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
You just got to get beaten down with sort of
beat down that gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
So and we've also talked on the show about the
fact that the universe starts with a whisper and ends
up with a two by four to the head. So
I'm assuming that what you're saying, what we're saying here
is get down and do the work before you get
hit by a two by four.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Oh true, although or by Ahmet, I did start with
the whisper though I started. You know, I was a
gym bunny in Atlanta, Georgia going to a gym where
all of a sudden, at my gym there was a
power yoga class and I was like, oh, I could
do that, because of course I'm a gym but I

(19:14):
was like, I can do that. So I went to
power yoga in terms that it was a serious ashtanga
class top by somebody who had trained in my sore
and was like giving me Sanskrit and I was sweating.
I didn't know what was gone, but I loved it.
So I discovered all that, and that still didn't prevent
the two by four because I wasn't really really really listening.
You know, at the end of the day, you're going

(19:36):
to have the awakening that you need. I mean, I
have looked back at that experience right and said, why
could I not have a Why couldn't I have avoided
Why didn't I get to wake up earlier? Ten years earlier?
Where would I be now? Yeah, didn't happen. That's part
of accepting. This goes back to one of your original
your first question will about spiritual speakers being stuck. One

(19:58):
of the ways that people get thought is they have
a sort of sense of like, this is the way
it should have been, this is how it was supposed
to go. Oh, and then I've had my awakening and
now I'm supposed to get to bliss. It's supposed to,
supposed to supposed to as opposed to as opposed to
life taking you where you actually need to go, right, surrender.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I was gonna say it is about surrender. We're so
taught in this culture specifically you got to make the plans,
You got to make the appointments and the dates and
the calendars and the whatever. So you control everything, and
so you know how you want things to be. So
I guess it makes sense you would think you know
how your awakening is going to happen because you're just
kind of used to kind of thinking a couple steps
ahead of game. So you have to let go of

(20:44):
any thought of knowing that.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's yeah, well take it a step further. It is
the physical being that has to control because we have
to survive. Yeah, and then we are here to relinquish
that physical in surrender into the spiritual. And we're having
a difficult time making the transition to we're stuck into
three D. So we need to actually, another way of saying,

(21:05):
got to get to the five D.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Did I just say what you said? Dang it?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
I thought it was a different I thought it was
going down further.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
I just like to think we think similar about this topic.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, but no, I shouldn't be doing that anyway, I'm
going to get better. I'm gonna drop an edit point here,
Yes i am, because that's terrible. All right, Well, you
so generously offered to do a brief reading on us,
and I do want to get to that at some
point very soon before we forget, because that is really

(21:41):
the most important thing after all. But not I'm just thing.
But I do want to talk about peace, yes, yeah, peace. Yes, first,
let's maybe define it a little bit when it comes
to us, Like what does peace feel like in your body? Right?

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Well, it's a great question because so many times when
we talk about peace, we're really talking about like the
absence of conflict or the cessation of conflict, like taking
break from war or conflict, and like that's peace, and
that's just the pause in war. That's not really peace

(22:23):
at all.

Speaker 6 (22:24):
You know, it's so depressing, right, But peace is really
the state of being.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
A feeling and believing that whatever is happening right now
is okay, just as it is like whatever is happening
in your life. We want to keep it really simple.
We don't have to get into like the whole world
just yet. But like, now are you at peace? Like
right in this moment, are you like, yeah, this is fun.

(23:00):
Maybe not, But piece is really sort of that the
external circumstances like have no bearing. I mean, piece isn't
something that we create. Piece is something that we allow
when we've stripped away all the conditioning and all the judgment.
It's the natural state that we have.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
But that's true. How do you we create conflict? We
do some conflict. Well, some people say that constantly comes
from our pain body, right, So how does how does
peace feel?

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Like?

Speaker 1 (23:32):
How do you know that you have achieved peace? Because
people walk around all the time saying, oh, yeah, I'm good,
I'm good, But inside there's turmoil. There's all kinds of
stuff stirring up in there. Right, kind of ties into
our last conversation. So how can you tell when you
have found inner piece?

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Mmm? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
When I find it, I'll tell you darn it. We
get experienced moments of piece. This is me being radically honest,
because you know I I experienced moments of peace and
then I got to get up and you know, oh,
I got to make dinner and wait, it's something there,
and I'm like a little annoyed. Am I out of peace? Yeah?
I'm out of peace? If if I'm judging that there's

(24:14):
I would without you know, I might say that there's
something of a spectrum. But if your general relationship to
your life, you know, I'm not talking this sort of
the minor annoyance like you know, you run out of coffee.
You're like, oh, you know, something like that, though it

(24:35):
can't be really that was a bad example, the whole example.
Little stuff that might be you know, you're like annoyed
for a second. Fine, But if your general overall feelings
like these, my life is not under threat right now,

(24:56):
that these circumstances are not ones that challenge my existence,
then you have a you have achieved a a modicum
of peace. I knew you can't say that word monicum.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I knew it.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
You knew it.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
You knew it. I did read in my mind.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
I did you know.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's interesting because, you know, so we work in TV
and do a lot of podcasting and people will ask
us to you know, critique their podcast or how can
you know they make it better? And we talk about
the audio a lot. And audio is one thing that
if the audio is great, you won't notice, you'll listen
to the podcast, you'll get the information. But if the
audio sucks, you notice, And so now I'm thinking maybe

(25:40):
that's kind of similar, like these moments of peace when
you're in peace, maybe you're not noticing it, but you're
getting annoyed that you see that the coffee is missing.
I love them, or something like that.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
I love that. That's that's right.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Maybe it's about me being more aware or appreciative.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Right, But then let's let's now go from inward peace
to outward peace. The world is.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
A mess right now, at mess.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
And us as spiritual seekers, we try to be at peace.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
But some of the stuff some people out there listening
or watching might feel like their life is in danger
because of some of the things that are happening. Absolutely, so,
how can you reflect peace into the world without or
become a spiritual activist without becoming or falling into the

(26:32):
US versus them trap?

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Yeah, it's truly like the hardest work, right, Like, let's
just be honest, that is I think some of the
hardest things. And we began with a coffee example, as
trivial as that is, and then you know, you want
to talk about the state of the nation, international conflict.
I mean, it's it's a natural transition I think I'm

(26:57):
feeling very peaceful right better serenity over here. And really,
the way I'd reframe it is peace is for me
the state where you can be like, everything that is happening,
no matter what it is, is in some way still

(27:19):
operating for my highest good. Now, that means that peace
can kind of almost coincide with or coexist with lots
of other emotions, and we can be very kind of
I want to say this, we can hold multiple positions

(27:42):
at the same time and still in some level there
can be a level peace. But we tend to lose
it when we get into the world of let's say politics.
Now we start talking about like this group, they're the problem.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
And they are by the way, but anyway with that,
and they are by the way, but go ahead, and
they are they are right to.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Wherever they are. They're the problem, never me, It's always them.
There was a brilliant episode of Black Mirror if you've
ever seen it, I love Black Mary. Black Mirror is genius.
On the episode about the Other, it was just like
the other is the problem. Like the whole episode, it
was like who was the other? It doesn't matter, it's
the other. That's exactly it at the same time. And

(28:27):
now I'm maybe I'm going to fall into a contradiction
and I want you to call me out on it.
But there are positions, there are ways of being in
the world that are more compassionate and more empathetic and
more aligned with like you have a right to exist
than other positions too. There are people that definitely hold

(28:49):
positions like those people shouldn't exist, Those people shouldn't Yeah,
there are and and I think that we can agree
without following. Those positions definitely give rise to conflict, like
you telling somebody you should not exist on this planet, yes,
versus like, hey, I want to exist and you have
a right to exist, and if you just stop worrying

(29:12):
about my existence, we'd be fine because my existence is
not really a threat to you. That is your that
is your internal conflict, right, and that the person that
generates conflict is like I'm not at peace because somehow
this is a threat to me the structure of consciousness, right,
like the idea like we need to get rid of
these people, these people who are different from me. And

(29:36):
I know I'm being very generic here for me, I'm
being a generic hear reason for your audience because I
don't know who your audience.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yes, no, and we appreciate that because we don't either.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Well, we think everybody, you know, no matter what side
you're on, can benefit from these messages.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
If your view is like, actually, you're not a threat
to me, right and the people that we think of
as a threat to us. That goes back to the
sort of inner work, because you haven't done the inner work.
Why does that quality, that difference in gender so much
fear and anxiety in you about the state of the world.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
You know it, You know that is the biggest question.
Why does it? Why does it? How do how is
that so threatening to someone that they're being different makes
them feel threatened? You go back to the ancient days,
right that we're talking about the Salem witch trials and
the Crusades, and it was it's always you are different

(30:43):
than me, and so you shouldn't exist. So can you
can you come to terms with why someone would feel
it so threatened by the differences?

Speaker 3 (30:56):
I mean, I find it perplexing as some who's like, what,
you know, why is that difference threatening to you? Your
existence is not really under threat just by the mere
existence of this person. And very often these conflicts end
up creating the conditions by which they sort of make
them into threats, because some side takes action to eliminate

(31:17):
the other, and the other one responds, and therefore there
are actually threatening to know, there's existence at that point, right, right,
And so we end up producing the very thing that
we were worried about because we were scared. And some
part of it's sort of a primal reptilian brain at
work of like difference. I don't know, you know, I suppose,

(31:39):
you know, going back is like, oh, there's the sabertooth tiger,
you know, right, but we forget that, you know, people
like there's a difference, and then there's the discourse around
it and the beliefs around it and what those people do,
and we would have to get really specific, I think
around an example, to sort of unwine the beliefs that

(32:02):
we start attaching. But then people develop biases and they
develop prejudice, and they're like, this is the way these
people are in kind of a sweeping way.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
I have a theory. Yes, Now, a lot of this
probably comes from the pain body, right, the need to
create conflict in order to make themselves feel better.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
But I think a lot.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Of that deep rooted dislike for someone just because they're
different might come from a position of fear within themselves.
I think somewhere inside they are afraid either maybe I'm
like that, or you're going to do something to me

(32:47):
that I am going to be threatened by. And so
that fear, that hatred comes from inside and they externalize
it and it doesn't really matter who as long as
they have someone to point to.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Sometimes, right, I think it's about control, trying to control
your environment. And if you go way back and you know,
you have these two I don't know people, and one
guy wants to control everything, and he's big and strong,
and everyone's kind of doing what he's saying, and so
the guy's like, oh, that's fine for you, but I
don't necessarily accept that. Well, these people might start following
that guy. So I got to get rid of that
guy so that I can keep control of these people.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
No, this is a very different episode. Yeah, I feel like.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
We've got into this cultural anthropology, which I love because
I have a degree in anthology.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
But is a skeptic anthropologists. The piece that I think
for the podcast it's important because I hate to break
it to you, I'm not going to solve the issue
of world peace. Uh man, I know right, you know,
I thought I had the book. I wrote a book. Well,
I channeled the book. But the key piece is that

(33:56):
people in the spiritual world, we love to think that
piece is just like around the corner. It's just like
going to show up, you know, It's like it's next year.
It's showing up newers. And when I ask people, it's like, Okay,
we're all doing what karens is. We're all holding hands kumbayah.

(34:19):
We have a moment of world peace. Okay, now we
got to get back to our lives. We're all feeling
really good about ourselves. Okay, who's running things? Where are
we getting food? Who's doing this or that? Like all
the things Like I ask myself all the time, what
does a world look like where we all like regard

(34:41):
each other with love and empathy and like divine beings.
It's like, okay, so what kind of laws do we
have in place? When do we need laws? Who would
enforce the laws? Do we need police officers? Like these
are the questions, and people are like, ah, don't worry
about it. The newors is coming, right. Do we have

(35:05):
world leaders? Do we have one name. You know, like,
this is stuff that I think about.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Well, thankfully we don't have to worry about that much longer.
We have our friend Ai to handle all that for us, right, careful.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Edit point there.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
So let's talk about paradox because in your book Endless
Awakening you write about paradox is a path. Right, what
do you mean by that? Exactly?

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah? For me, and this goes back to kind of
the way in which we get stuck and get bypassed
and start bypassing, which is that you know, we mostly have.
You know, we have an awakening experience, whether we're hit
by two by four, a tree, whatever it is, you know,
knocks us up. We wake up, We're like, oh my gosh,
how amazing is this? Oh? Everything I thought about the

(35:52):
world is different. Okay, where's enlightenment. I'm ready? Oh wait,
I'm still stuck. And we kind of get a before
and after before wakening, after wakening my identity, and then
you know, sometimes people are on a like I'm on
an ascension path, you know, I'm ascending, and it's like, okay,
next level, next level? Wait, no, why am I not

(36:14):
there yet? We get this set of linear time path
and for me, it comes back to how the mind works.
It's just like that's not that's that that very construct
of like this is what happened to you? Is like
that story is itself a product of an old consciousness

(36:34):
that I had it before awakening and after wakening, And
there's a lot of judgment about who we were before
and when we get into paradox, it's sort of like,
can we hold multiple mutually exclusive positions together at the
same time. Can we say that we're whole and still healing?
Can we say that we're never and always in the
present moment? And what does that mean? Can we say

(36:56):
that I am mortal and immortal at the same time?
Like when we kind of start to let our minds
hold contradiction, then we're actually more at peace. The person
that's like, I am always going to be non judgmental

(37:19):
and then because that's a wonderful thing to be as
a spiritual person. And then you get pissed off like
though I'm a bad person as opposed to I am
whole and still healing, like that I hold multitudes.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Well, all this talk of being stuck and finding a
way to be at peace when everything is getting crazy,
you've kind of danced around it. But the big thing
there is how does someone who is very much living
in three D going through their professional They're working in

(37:58):
a job nine to five or whatever it is, and
yet want they need they want to break out, they
want to spiritually awaken. If only there was a program
that could do something like that, that could help people
do that. I believe that you're going to announce something
on the show today, right. It's something that you might
be like launching or something.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Imagine will I think I think you might be an intuitively,
you know, I don't like to brag, but in fact
I am, you know, working with people a lot over
the years. People come to me for readings and I
see them you know, here and there, and they come
in and sometimes they want to do multiple readings. Sometimes

(38:39):
I send them to a therapist. Sometimes I say okay,
just go do this and work on you know. Then
they circle back like six months later, and there's sort
of not that AD made a lot of progress or
they made some progress. And what I realized is that
I really wanted to start working with people who were
kind of in my shoes, which is that is, people

(39:02):
who are professionals in some way, who are you know,
going to a job. It doesn't have to be being
a lawyer, you know, it can be anything. It was
just like you've you've committed to a certain path in life,
and then all of a sudden you realize there's really
more to life than this. How do I make sense
of this? And how do I go to my job?
How do I just how do I be a doctor
or being corporate or be a teacher whatever it is

(39:23):
that you're doing being a lawyer and still do this.
You know, so many people hit that and they're like, oh, okay,
this is meaningless or how do I find meaning and
success in this and still feel like I'm honoring being
a divine you know, a spiritual being. So yeah, I
created a program. It's a one year community a membership

(39:43):
program where we do a lot of deep work. It's
because you know, it takes time to do this stuff,
do the inner work, and we often need to do
it in a relationship. And I find a lot of
people come to me and they're like, yeah, I'm doing
this on the DL right, Like you're not going into
the firm, they're not going to their car, you're not

(40:04):
listing it on LinkedIn or right right, you know, they're like,
are there other lawyers? Are their doctors. I'm like, yeah,
they come to see me. But it's all on the
dal like you know, of course, which I get. You
know I get, and so yeah, I'm I've launched a
program so if people want to come to my website
and get more info. Right, but it's a place where

(40:26):
I am typically very like our conversation today, we weren't
really getting into Kundalini and Chakras and all kashak records. Listen,
I can talk that talk. I love that talk, but
you know that's not what you need most of the time.
When you're like I'm at the office and I'm feeling
stressed and like I'm working twelve hour days of work

(40:48):
or whatever it is that you're dealing with, then you're
sort of managing to use your language. You're managing life
in three D material reality. We gotta we gotta work,
we gotta pay bills.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
So then you can to help people's professional people to
find that that tone tipping the balance, the bounce beam right,
working on the balance beam, that the tight rope.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
That's what I was looking for.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
You're going to help people walk down tightrope that is
so critical in this day and age because no one
wants to be out in well, we've.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Been talking about it a lot lately, that it is.
It's it's doctors and lawyers and computer people, everybody. Very
mainstream type people are in this space now. So I
always call it covert mainstream because they're like, you know,
on the down low. But they're just like the regular people, right.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, they're just regular people. They're like, where do I go?

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yep, you know, but there's still that kind of stigma.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
So does it.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
And we're going to add a link to your website
so people can reach out to your join that community
and make it easy for them. But when they first
reach out to you, do like you do a reading
for them to kind of get them on the path first,
or how does that work?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
So where if people want to urge in the program,
like they can come talk to me about where they are,
what they're doing. You know, I want to make sure
this is going to be right for them, because some
people like actually might benefit from working with somebody else.
And if they want to have a reading, then I
will do a reading because some people know that usually
in a course of a kind of you know, just

(42:15):
a conversation, there'll be a little bit of a mini
reading so they get a sense of kind of what
it is, you know, say, yeah, so there will be
some of that, and if somebody wants to like a
full on reading, then yeah, we can schedule that separately.
That's okay.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Well, speaking of readings, yeah, you did mention before we
started recording that you had gotten a lot, like pages
upon pages of stuff on us. So I'm really curious
there's books.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
You graciously agreed to do a mini reading on us.
And well, so the way I read just so that
people know, because everybody ever, there's lots of readers out
there and they do different things. And you know, I
have like colleagues that I'm like, oh, if you want this,
go to this reader. If you want this, go to
that reader. So typically when I start reading somebody, and

(43:09):
it was interesting because it was reading two of you
and sort of who wanted to come in first.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
We're kind of like the same person though, so you know,
we're kind of like the same person, So it doesn't you.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Know, are you yes read? Yes, yes we are. I
will reveal nothing impertinent, but often so when I read people,
some people go they're like, I want to know what's
happening in six months, what's happening. I'm like, I'm not

(43:41):
that kind of reader. Like I read and I sort
of get a snapshot of you and what's going on
and the things that are coming through instead of where
you're at with the idea of the evolution of your
consciousness of who are you trying to you know, as
you're on a growth path towards connecting with your soul
and coming back into wholeness. Perfect. Yeah, and so interesting.

(44:07):
I'll be curious to see how you react to this.
It's interesting because I've got my notes and I'm trying
to I'm sort of trying to turn the dial because
I'm used to reading people without having like chatted for
you know, fifty five minutes about the thundery of pet
I'm really up here now, But you know, we're going
to go with it. We could have started with this

(44:27):
is great. It's I'm just coming back to my notes.
So when I first tune into somebody, usually get a
sense of what they're like, kind of like personality wise,
the energy they show up in the world. And so
I'm just going to share with you what came through
and then as I share and the dial sort of turns.
This is the way it feels in my head, is
like a dial turns, and I'm just sort of in

(44:48):
another space. So if you start asking me about, you know,
my books, I'm gonna be like, no, I don't know
anything about that. So I want to talk about Will
because Will came.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Through first as he is wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
That's true, which has nothing to do with Eddie. Although
everything about a reading, I say this to you, everything
about a reading is part of the reading. Who comes
like what shows up first in the order. But this
is a mini reading, not a full honor. So what
was interesting what came through first about you Will was

(45:22):
I'm reading the word simple and that was not a mental,
I want to be clear, a mental.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
There's no ton at the end of that.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Okay, thanks for joining us. Patrick has been a pleasure
to media about how you like to think keep things uncomplicated,
Like there's just something about too much busyness of and
it too messy. There was something about things being basic
and essential for you that like, I don't know, it's

(45:56):
like you were not fussy. You're not a fussy guy.
As what was coming through for me and I'm trying
to get back to my nose. It wasn't aesthetic, like
you're not a minimalist, like like you need everything to
be like, you know, clean, with clean surfaces. It was
like there's something about being very straightforward, like I keep saying,

(46:17):
don't try to be too fussy, and so I don't
know what that's like in terms of your actual personality.
If you're just like I like things kind of basic.
I like things kind of simple. I don't need things
to be too fussy and too fancy. So I just
want to connect there. What do you think? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I have to think about that. Yeah, yeah, what do
you think?

Speaker 1 (46:42):
I was just talking about how I want to simplify things.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Maybe you're wanting to simplify things. Maybe that's what was
coming through because you do have a kind of a
lot going on.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Yes, but well you may be busy, but are your style?
Are you? You strike me like you're not a fussy Dresser's.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
You can be fussy about it, just it depends. He's
a chameleon, my chameleion. So then what came through for
you was a message about being an old or older soul.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
First he called me a bad dresser. Now he's calling
me old. I said that you were into what was essential, right, okay.

Speaker 6 (47:33):
And.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
What came through was interesting is your path And this
does tie in with the simplicity is about the path
requires no effort, none at all. And your path to
being really like your path was to take as much

(47:57):
effort out of your path. And what's amazing about that
read is how it came through is take effort out
of your path. Is requires effort and sort of to
play with the contradiction because it's not about doing nothing,

(48:20):
but the more that you can let go of effort.
Something about your path is about simplicity the basics. It's
not about being busy, it's not about being fussy. It's
just playing with that contradiction, taking effort out of like

(48:44):
playing with that almost paradox, how do I effort my
way out of effort? See I've gotten.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
That guidance before and it makes great sense because I'm
the guy that really I teased it a little bit,
but astral projection was the big thing for me, and
I've tried for forty years to get out of my
damn body.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Never has You need to get out of your way.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
You need to not get out of your You don't
need to get out of your body. You don't need
to get it. Yeah, you can need all the effort,
all the trying. It's like when you really when you
put your stuff down, all of it. This is when
you put your stuff down, like literally, like I don't

(49:33):
have to do anything with this. That's your path. It's
like your path is like really simplified. At any time
that you're like, oh, I need to like do X
Y and Z, oh N, ABC and D, the answer
is no, don't get there, put it down. Okay. It's

(49:56):
so funny. It's such a funny path for you.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
So we were having dinner with a friend a long
time ago, and same thing. He channeled something from him
and it was four of us sitting at a table
and he just turned to me and he was talking
directly to me and no one else about you're trying
too hard.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Yeah, just relax.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Everything you need is inside you. Just relax and just
let everything go and it will come to you. So
you are reinforcing that message that I got and I
get it, but I don't get it right because the
effort that it takes to like go of effort is
a lot of effort.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Well, I think.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Because so much of you you define yourself by your accomplishments,
by your outside accomplishments. Yes, always have and people's approval
of that. So for you to let that go is
very difficult to do. So it's work for you to
let that go. And it feels uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, so I'm feeling a littlettacked. Yeah, if like maybe seen.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Is more like I'm sorry. Well, it's a wonderful buntry,
the thing is. And it's it's interesting because it was
also very you. You can get there in this lifetime.
You can get to that space of like, oh me
being will like requires no effort, and it's also is

(51:22):
available to you if you stop. This is I'm literally
reading my why do you stop trying so hard to
get there? And there was this anxiety that I started
to feel, will I get there? Will I get there?
Will I get there? And my heart was raised.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Well, it's funny because the path that has called to
me the most my entire life without really realizing, and
I've not really done anything about it, has been Zen Buddhism,
like Z that's always always called to me, and yet
have never done anything about it.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Oh my gosh, so what this is what I love?
So I know you were like, so I know when
my read feels like right, and you were like, I'm
not simple, I'm you know what I love about Zen
because then was my starting place. Then was my opening.
I went to Zen and I was like, oh, this
stuff and it was no deism whatsoever because I was

(52:15):
so closed off. It's

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