November 4, 2025 • 53 mins
Summary:
Jeremy LaDuke, founder of Epic Nine, dives into the attention economy and why bold, memorable branding outperforms safe, copycat marketing. He explains how small businesses can set honest budgets, track what really matters, and build brand familiarity that drives conversion — even without perfect attribution. From Liquid Death’s creative risk-taking to networking tips for introverts, Jeremy shares practical lessons every entrepreneur can apply to grow with authenticity and courage.
🎥 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSmallBusinessSafari
💡 GOLD NUGGETS (Key Moments)
• Disruptive branding lessons from Liquid Death
• Defining SMART goals and budget honesty
• Risk appetite and creative differentiation
• Attribution reality and measuring what matters
• Branded search as a proxy for awareness
• Lower, mid, and top-funnel investment strategy
• Climb Club for sub-$2M businesses
• Networking tactics for introverts
• When to use CTAs vs. pure brand
• Distinctive assets: names, themes, mascots
🔗 Guest Links
• Website: https://epicnine.com
• The Climb Club: https://theclimbclub.com
• Book “Climb”: https://theclimb.guide
or Amazon
• LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyladuke/
• Book Rec: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
🌍 Follow The Small Business Safari
• Instagram | @smallbusinesssafaripodcast
• LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislalomia/
• Website | https://chrislalomia.com
• Website | www.safaripodcast.com
From the Zoo to Wild is a book for entrepreneurs passionate about home services, looking to move away from corporate jobs. Chris Lalomia, a former executive, shares his path, discoveries, and tools to succeed as a small business owner in home improvement retail. The book provides the mindset, habits, leadership style, and customer-oriented processes necessary to succeed as a small business owner in home services.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SP (00:00):
SPEAKER_05
what are they willing to put ona check?
Um, right?
That's where that's you don'treally get much more honest than
that.
Like what can what can you cut acheck for?
SPEAKER_03 (00:12):
And so Well, and I'm my guess is the answer is hey,
if it works, I'll put as muchmoney as I have in it, but
they're afraid it's not going towork.
Yes.
Yeah.
So it's like how much are youwilling to gamble, Chris?
Like when you go to Vegas,what's your number?
SPEA (00:30):
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
Uh, there's the answer I tell mywife, and there's the answer I
tell my buddies, and it'ssomewhere in the middle.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Ten grand, big boy, big daddy's coming in big
strong.
SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
Honey, how much you a thousand.
Or I'm at a thousand.
I'm gonna tell you, I'm notgonna spend any more than a
thousand.
I mean, that's it.
When I go there, I'm I'm onlygonna lose a thousand dollars,
okay?
And so by the way, it'ssomewhere in the middle between
one and ten.
And for that, you can emailChris at the trusted toolbox to
find out what the real numberis, and I'll let you know.
But I not unless you email me.
If you email me and say, Chris,what is that number?
(01:02):
I'll I'll tell you what it is.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari, where I help guide you
to avoid those traps, pitfalls,and dangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggets ofinformation and invite guests to
help accelerate your ascent tothat mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there, and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(01:24):
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through this
safari.
Alan, I can't believe youactually said that before we
went on air that you called mean extrovert.
(01:44):
I take that thing to heart.
And yes, I identify it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:48):
Kind of implied that you were being obnoxious.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
And I am obnoxious.
Thank you again, Alan, forletting us all know that we do
that.
Once again, everybody, we'reback.
You're driving.
I've been watching the stats.
I tell you what, I love thatwe're getting listens.
I just had another person reachout to me saying, Love what you
guys are doing, keep it up.
You know what?
You're one of the few podcasts Ilook forward to listening to.
I was like, hey, tell yourfriends, tell like a thousand
(02:11):
more, will you?
SPEAKER_03 (02:12):
SPEAKER_03
Isn't that cool though thatthere's somebody out there and
they they get excited when theysee it drop?
SPEAKER_0 (02:17):
SPEAKER_02
Well, I don't know if he saidthat, but he did he definitely
at one of the golf events.
Yeah, he would he came up to meand says, Oh, yeah, yeah, I
listened to your podcast.
I look forward to it.
And uh, I thought that was socool because um so Alan had a
big time, played a little bit ofgolf, we're in the golf season.
We were supposed to be there,and I was supposed to be there.
S (02:36):
SPEAKER_03
SPEAKER_02 (02:37):
We need we we needed the big mouth, is what we
needed.
But no, I had played two charityevents and uh in two scrambles
in a row.
I always joke that uh if thereare if there are 88 players and
that makes 24 teams, I can't dothe math.
We're usually a solid likemiddle of the pack 12.
And in this case, we ended up infifth and fourth.
(02:59):
Um, not because of this guy,because I play with some really
cool guys, and I also play witha really old guy, Alan.
Older than me?
Older than you.
And uh I said, I said, hey Alan,this guy got to play from the
red teas.
He goes, You mean I could haveplayed from the red tees?
I'm like, yeah, I said, and Ireally wanted you there, but I
had gotten invited that one.
(03:19):
So loving golf, but uh Alaninvited me to one.
I was supposed to be there, andI am still super jelly because
it's up in the mountains of uhGeorgia.
It's at Old Tacoa, Old TacoaFarm.
Great course, great course.
Uh up in Blue Ridge, got to playwith our good friends at
DeCouffles who've been on thepodcast.
SPEAKER_03 (03:37):
The whole thing was podcast people.
We had Tim from Next GenLighting and then Ted.
Temple of Ted four years ago,Temple of Ted talking about
marketing.
SPEAKER_02 (03:48):
What are we talking about today?
Hmm.
I may market full circle.
We have come full circle today.
We've got Jeremy Leduc on, andwe're gonna talk all kinds of
marketing.
We're gonna talk aboutpersonality types, we're gonna
talk about how Jeremy shouldnever ever pick up the game of
golf.
Uh, because while it sounds likea lot of fun, it's super
frustrating when you get old andyou really start to suck like I
(04:09):
am.
Jeremy, welcome to you.
SPEAKER_05 (04:11):
It sounds like a lot of time and a lot of money.
Um, two things that that I don'thave at this point in my life.
SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Time, money, and uh, oh, by the way, your blood
pressure goes skyrocketing, anduh, that's why I still take
blood pressure medication.
SPEA (04:24):
SPEAKER_03
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
Here's to that with our small business safari
bourbon cups Jeremy, welcome tothe show, man.
Happy to have you on.
Thanks for having me.
About what you do and um whatmakes you so cool doing it.
SP (04:39):
SPEAKER_05
almost 12 years ago.
Um, and we uh do everything frombranding strategy to web design,
video production, advertising,all the things, right?
So we we really like to workwith brands that are ambitious
and they want to grow, and theyhave some they have some kind of
well-defined goals that they'reuh reaching for.
(05:02):
And so what we do, and kind ofthe secret sauce that that we
like to bring to the the game isum ideas that push them a little
bit on their creativity, ontheir branding, and and help
them think outside the box sothat they can capture attention,
right?
Marketing is a um it's it'swe're dealing in the economy of
(05:23):
attention.
And if it your advertising andyour campaigns are not
memorable, then they're wastingmoney.
So um that's what we that's whatwe like to do.
We like to make uh those dollarsgo as far as they can and and
grow businesses.
SPEAK (05:36):
SPEAKER_02
We are in the attentionbusiness.
I love that phrase because yeah,right now, uh I wish it was
mine.
S (05:42):
SPEAKER_05
I got it from somebody else.
I it's not mine, but but I loveit.
SP (05:46):
SPEAKER_02
Do what did he say?
I mean, because I had noattention.
I mean, they say goldfish sevenseconds.
This kid's like three and a halfflat, baby.
I can go from zero to sixty inthree and a half.
What'd you say?
Where where are we at?
But you're right.
I mean, we're trying to grabattention in a very busy world.
I just had a guy say, Hey, myyou know, I my my time is my run
time.
I when I go run, I don't eventake music, I just go run.
(06:08):
I was like, for how long?
He goes, six miles.
I said, so is that like 80minutes?
He goes, So a little faster thanthat.
I'm like, okay.
I said, so what do you do?
He goes, I'm just a man with mythoughts.
I'm like, ooh, that's dangerous.
SPEAKER_05 (06:21):
You you go into some like some strange places if you
don't have any music to keepyour mind occupied while you
run, like you you go down somedark trails sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
I know dark, and I yes, I know those trails.
You talked about it, theattention management.
Uh, you talk about beingmemorable.
What do you think the mostmemorable marketing thing ever
was that you you like you comein and tell people, hey, here's
my example.
SP (06:45):
SPEAKER_05
because this one is just too alittle too extreme.
And I think most people in theearth they think, oh, we can
never do anything like that.
But um, it's the Liquid Deathbrand.
I don't know if y'all arefamiliar with Liquid Death.
Yeah.
I mean, they came into asaturated market, no pun
intended, right?
So bottled water.
(07:07):
Um, you know, you go to the yougo to the cooler at the gas
station, you open up the door,and you're just gonna see this
wall of blue with some, youknow, springs and mountains and
maybe some some woodlandcreatures on the bottles.
Um, and it all looks the same,right?
It you really can't tell onefrom another, and they're really
not that different.
There's some people that saythey can taste the difference in
(07:27):
water, but they're just reallynot different.
I think they're completelylying.
SPEAKE (07:30):
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it's um so bottled wateris 100% vanity, I think.
SP (07:37):
SPEAKER_02
bottling water as it's thetrusted toolbox water source,
and I just use my hose out back,fill up these bottles, and then
put them all back on.
SPEAKER (07:44):
SPEAKER_05
Well, and and I'm yeah, I'm I'mpretty sure like if you look at
it like bottled bottled in LosAngeles, um, it's like, what
kind of water is this?
So um so liquid death.
Yeah, yeah.
So liquid liquid death came onthe scene, and they just
decided, listen, what what canwe do just to disrupt this and
to um be distinct, stand out?
And so one, they put it in acan, right?
(08:06):
Um that that gets you points onwater quality, in my opinion.
Like I can tell when water comesfrom a can versus a bottle
that's like the I can taste thatdifference.
Um, so they're in a can.
Um, and they have a they have apurpose behind that, but not
really too many people I don'tthink really care about the
purpose uh for it beingrecyclable.
But they came out in a can, theyput a skull on it.
(08:27):
It looks more like a beer uh canthan a water can.
And um, they just themed theirwhole brand around death.
Um, they've they had a mascotfor a while that was this like
headless guy with a chainsaw oran axe or something.
And so super yeah, theiradvertising is just so off the
wall extreme as well.
(08:49):
Um, they did a uh they took allof their hate comments at one
point.
Uh, this is a few years ago.
They took all of their commentsthat they've gotten on fate on
social media um that werenegative and they turned them
into uh like an 80s rock album.
Um, and and they left all thecuss words in and everything.
So it's fantastic.
Oh, I love that.
(09:09):
SPEAKER_02
I I uh went to our local grocerystore, buy one, get one free,
liquid death.
I'm like, you know, I'm gonna doit.
You know, why not why not?
So I got the the BOGO secretsauce, secret story.
If you buy one, you still get ithalf off.
Hello.
I did it.
I brought it home, put it in theuh in the refrigerator.
My daughter comes back to visitand she goes grabbing for it,
and I watch her and she goes,What's this?
(09:30):
Because she already drank it.
She was thinking it was like ahigh noon, like an alcoholic
drink.
She goes, It said liquid death.
I'm like, You better read it alittle closer there.
S (09:38):
SPEAKER_03
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
Yeah, she was going for it thinking she was sneaking
in, and she's like, I got thevodka, baby.
Yeah, that's funny.
SPEAKER (09:47):
SPEAKER_01
S (09:47):
SPEAKER_05
very risky thing to do, right?
Like nobody else was doing it.
And if and if it had failed,like several people would have
gotten fired, I'm sure.
Like if if this was a if acorporate decision and around a
boardroom and someone said, Hey,I got this idea, if it had
failed, they would have gottenfired.
They wouldn't have gotten firedif the clear bottle with a blue
(10:09):
label had failed, right?
Right, right.
Stayed in the north.
Yeah, safe.
It's safe.
What was your role in all this?
Oh, I had no role.
It's just it's just my exampleof a great, great brand that
yes.
I I wish I had a role.
SPEAKER_03 (10:22):
Um, I'd throw you, I'd throw you a little puttball
like that, Jeremy.
Hit it out of the park.
SPEAKER_02 (10:28):
Yeah, well, tell us how you did something funny like
that then.
Come on, tough guy.
SPEAKER_05 (10:30):
What do you give us an example of so we we get the
well I want to go back to thisexample really quick?
So the thing that that uh Ithink kind of proves the the um
usefulness of all this is thatthey went from you know startup
to nearly a billion dollarinvaluation, um, I think in like
five to six years.
(10:51):
And so um just in in water,right?
Like we've got so many choicesof water, but they they knocked
out of the park.
Get the hose, Alan.
SPEAKE (10:59):
SPEAKER_03
toolbox of death.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
That you know what, maybe they'll get people.
Actually, one thing I am gonnatake away, everybody, is uh we
always shy away from badreviews.
Um, we all hate them, right?
You don't you don't like badreviews, especially in the home
services business or anythingwhere you're out there in
public.
We hate them.
But what if you embraced themonce and did that and made an
80s rock song out of it, or tookall your bad reviews and just
plastered them up there?
(11:23):
Because when you look at all thebad reviews, you can start to
figure out hmm, there might besome crazy people out there
reviewing you that maybe youweren't so bad, but maybe they
were nuts.
SPEAKER_03 (11:32):
Um wasn't a Kimmel that would uh have people read
bad reviews.
Mean tweets, mean tweets, yeah.
Mean tweets were hilarious,yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
So uh I like I like that idea again.
Something to think about.
I'm not saying I'm not espousingmarketing.
Uh Jeremy is here, he's notmarketing.
That was not his idea.
Um, so if it doesn't work, it'snot on him nor I.
Uh, and this financial advice isonly based on past precedent,
not future.
I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
So toolbox of death, or or we could go the other way
and go like, you know, sinister,let's see.
Sinister toolbox or ormischievous toolbox.
SPEAKER_02 (12:06):
What if I did like an animal house?
I I branded all my trucks.
I just made a big skull out ofit, and I just keep rolling
around.
They always camedo-do-do-do-do-do.
Here they come.
Oh, I'm gonna let this guy in myhouse.
I don't know our our our newuniform is gonna be um a sleeve
of tattoo shirt and uh black andskull bones.
(12:26):
I'm thinking a Jason mask, and aJason mask will show up at your
door like that.
Perfect.
SP (12:31):
SPEAKER_05
You just gotta own it becauseyou're you're I don't think I
can allow it.
You're gonna have a market thatthat that's the only reason
that's the sole reason they theyuh do it is because they want
the Jason mask at their door.
S (12:43):
SPEAKER_02
example, and I I know you usethat example with people to kind
of get people thinking out ofthe box.
Yeah, um, I know you've alsobranded yourself as going up the
mountains, which we talk abouthere at the small business
safari a lot.
So when you start to engage withsomebody, tell us a little bit
about how you work with somebodyand because you work with those
small companies looking to be abillion in five years, like we
(13:04):
all are.
Um, I'm just 17 years behindafter 17 years.
Um I think just a hundredmillion would be fine, don't
you?
You know, I'm not, I'm not, I'mnot greedy.
You're a little greedy.
I'll do a fractional share jet.
I don't need a full jet.
Is that good?
SPEAKER_03 (13:19):
All right, anyway, Jeremy, how do you work with
people?
You're maturing.
unknown (13:22):
unknown
S (13:24):
SPEAKER_05
whenever someone uh comes inwith us is we figure out goals,
right?
We figure out what where are youtrying to get to.
Um, because at the end of theday, if we don't have something
clearly defined, then we're notgonna know if what we did was
successful or not.
And so we try to try to getthose uh smart goals.
I'm sure you're you're familiarwith that um specific,
(13:46):
measurable, yada yada, yada.
Um so we uh get the goals naileddown and then we we uh start to
to brainstorm and think how canwe how can we get them to that
goal?
Um what level of investment arethey are they willing to be in
on it?
Um and then how how risky arethey willing to be?
And so um we we try to to pushthem and and um figure out how
(14:11):
can we take all the all thethings that they have, all the
assets they have, whether it'sit's uh their current brand, um
the the financial uh investmentthey can put into it, the people
that they have, uh theconnections and the community
they have, how can we leverageall these things to help them
get to that goal?
(15:27):
SPEAKER_02
I know you're very proud ofbeing local and where you are in
Tennessee and and doing that.
Um how how do you I mean I'mjust I'm gonna flip this around,
how do you market your businessto these small businesses?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (15:40):
So the the um we've done a couple of things over the
years.
One is we've really establisheda very clear identity for who we
are.
Um and we've got thatmountaineering or um outfitting
um mountain climbing theme,right?
So we do we help smallbusinesses uh conquer their
marketing mountains.
Um and so we we build thataround pretty much everything
(16:01):
that we do.
Um and people people know us,people know our logo, people
know our brand, it's uh we'reout there.
Um the one of the the uniquesituations I think that
marketing agencies are in isthat we we're like guitar
players, right?
Everybody knows a guitar player.
Um it some of them are are uhnot great, some of them are
(16:23):
amazing, um, but there's youknow, guitar players are diamond
dunces and so are marketingagencies.
And so um most of the time whensomeone is looking for some sort
of marketing, they're they'reprobably going to look, you
know, go to someone they know,go to a referral.
And so a lot of our marketing isgetting out, shaking hands.
We um we go to Chamber ofCommerces and um the networking
(16:47):
events that they have around ourarea um uh every every
opportunity we get.
I was actually um just goingthrough some of the the business
cards that I've collected overthe years and I have probably
close to like 2,000 um businesscards that I've just got um
compiled.
And I was just going through, umdecided to do this the other day
and just kind of go through andsay, all right, how many, how
(17:08):
many of these people thatweren't really good fits for our
business a while back, how muchhow many of those might be good
prospects now?
And so just kind of goingthrough and sifting through
them, but a lot of it's justit's those personal
relationships.
Um, but I think that's somethingthat is um probably a little
more unique to to the marketingagencies and a lot of other kind
of B2B service-based businesses.
(17:30):
Um and it's not a you know,every industry kind of has its
own uh recipe, I think.
S (17:36):
SPEAKER_02
and dear to Alan and I's heart,but if you think about it, you
just said it, uh everybody knowsa guitar player.
And you know, I just in fact mymy image right now is uh, hey,
I'm not gonna hire uh I'm notgonna hire the best rock band in
the world, I'm just gonna hire aband because I can't afford you
guys.
I'm gonna go with the cheaperalternative and watch these kids
(17:56):
just come, you know, just beatthe crap out of it, that'd be
hilarious.
But you mentioned that you donetworking and marketing, it's a
personal relationship, right?
I mean, in your world, you'vegot to make that connection uh
being personal, where somebodysays, Hey, Jeremy, it just
because I saw you on LinkedIndoesn't mean I'm gonna sign up
and spend five grand a monthwith you or 20 grand a month
(18:16):
with you.
It's that personal relationship.
You've got to make that.
I think in anything right now,especially with what's going on
with AI and everything, in anybusiness, I think you've got to
figure out your personalconnection that you got to be
able to make at some level withsomebody.
I how do you do how do you dothat even in the digital world?
SPEAKER_05 (18:36):
Um, yeah, so I think you marketing guy.
SPEAKER (18:39):
SPEAKER_03
I I think so it was kind of amushy question.
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
No, I want to know.
I was looking like how do I makethat personal connection?
I was looking for some freemarketing advice.
How do you make a personalconnection when you're
networking, or what are youtalking about?
No, when you're out there in thedigital world, like we're gonna
come back to marketing andnetworking in a minute, but how
do you make that personalconnection, those 2,000 business
cards digitally?
Because you can't do it onLinkedIn, right?
You just don't send me an emailand I'd say, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna
sign up.
How did digitally how do we makethat personal connection with
(19:05):
people now?
Because a lot of it is digital.
SPEAKER_03 (19:08):
Oh, he's saying he's going out and making them
personal.
Yeah, I know what he means withit.
I want to go, you get out ofyour basement and you go meet
them.
SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
Well, I you know I'm good with that, but uh, I can
only that's one at a time.
I want five five billion.
I'm looking for that fivebillion story, man.
Can I ask a different question?
SP (19:26):
SPEAKER_01
SPEAKER_05 (19:28):
I think it's a it's a legitimate question.
I I I want to answer that.
It's legitimate.
SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
That does not count as a good question.
Legit.
That means it's on life support.
I may have given it CPR.
So go ahead, Jeremy.
See do what you will with that.
SPEAKER_05 (19:42):
So I think digitally you can you can think of it in
in terms of your personal brandand your uh your business brand,
right?
And so um your personal brand,it it revolves around uh a lot
of personality.
Um and can you can you createthe posts that that you need to
create?
Can you create the content thatyou need to create to really
(20:03):
grab people's attention and makethat connection?
And so for me, that's that isnot my strong suit.
Like my you know, my personalbrand.
We were talking about thisearlier, uh getting getting a
personal brand going onLinkedIn.
Um, it's one of those kind of doas I say, not as I do.
Um as a as an introvert.
It's just it I overthink everypost I make on my personal
(20:25):
account.
Um for a brand, uh, for a for aand introverts don't like to
toot their own horn either.
SPEAKER_02 (20:31):
SPEAKER_02
You're not gonna you don't liketo get out there and be the
center of attention and telleverybody look at it, look at
me, look at me.
Yeah, which is why I don't thinkabout any of my posts.
I just say look at me.
Hey, quit looking at that.
Go out there and look, man.
Chris Lullaby on Instagram, gocheck it out, boys.
Girls, go check it out.
Yeah, that's right.
I don't think one thing aboutwhat I'm posting.
Facebook, check it out.
S (20:54):
SPEAKER_05
So um, yeah, but for yourbusiness, for your business
building those thoseconnections, it's really it's
about getting just getting outthere, um, posting as much as
you can to get in front of folksand um just be familiar, right?
So one of the things that we welike to leverage and talk about
whenever we're working with withclients is just really how the
(21:16):
human brain works and how peoplebuy, the psychological reasons
people buy.
Most of the time they'recompletely irrational.
But one of the things thataffects who we buy from is how
familiar, how familiar we arewith them.
So if people see you a lot onsocial media, um, your brand or
you personally, they're gonna befamiliar with you and
(21:37):
consequently, they're going totrust you more.
They don't have a reason fortrusting you more, they just
trust you more because they'veseen you more, um, unless you've
given them some reason not to.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
The trusted toolbox.
Thank you, Alan.
Um, and Alan's gonna start themore trusted toolbox.
Alan, that's the business Alan'sgonna start is the more trusted
toolbox.
Um, and that's a side joke ofdeath.
Of death, more trusted toolboxof death.
That's awesome.
Awesome, Jeremy.
All right, Jeremy.
So um you're I that's what Iwould say.
It's hard to make that personal,and that's what you're talking
(22:11):
about is you gotta find thosechannels.
One of the things I'd heard fromsomebody is pick one and do it
really well, and I heard thatyears ago.
I think I I I I'm gonna fightback on that one now.
I wonder if now you have to dodifferent channels and be out
there and see which one's gonnawork.
SPEAKER_03 (22:26):
What do you think?
Can I before he answers that?
Oh, please.
Let's ask, no, no, no.
I think you're on to something.
Okay, it's a legitimatequestion, Chris.
Thank you.
Well, I got another life supportquestion.
But what I want to ask is okay,so if you're working with a
major corporation, yeah, theyhave their ad budget, and you
can't, you know, your job is tojust get the account away from
(22:49):
somebody else.
But when you're working with uhan entrepreneur and maybe, you
know, they've been trying to doit on their own, and one of the
first things you said, you know,you want their goals, but you
also have to find out what theirbudget is, they don't know what
their budget is.
Or they're scared to give youthe right number, or the number
they give you is probably, Idon't know.
They're they could go two ways.
(23:10):
One is maybe they throw out abigger number because they don't
want to be embarrassed, or theythrow out a tiny number because
they don't want you to waste it.
How do you how do you getsomebody to the right number?
Because if you don't put enoughinto it, it's useless, right?
SPEAKER_05 (23:26):
And I think that's just an honest conversation we
have with them in in when welook at the goals.
If they say, you know, here'sour here's our goal way up here,
and here's our budget, then thenwe've got to we've got to close
that gap somehow.
We either got to say, all right,well, you've got to be making a
whole lot of cold calls, youknow, in your spare time to get
there, or um you you eitherlower the goals or you raise the
(23:48):
like there's there's gotta besome honest conversation of what
can you know, if if this is yourreal budget, what can you really
do with that?
What can you expect?
And so um a lot of our job is ismanaging those expectations of
of if we're gonna put this muchenergy and effort into
something, what can you rreasonably expect to get out of
that?
(24:08):
All right, I gotta go back to myoriginal question.
SPEA (24:10):
SPEAKER_03
with that because you're talkingabout focusing on one channel
versus a a broad stroke, right?
That that's gonna have a lot todo with the budget.
SPEAKE (24:20):
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that's the question.
SPEAKER_05 (24:22):
I mean Yeah, so so I think when when social media can
uh platforms are first comingout, that statement and that
philosophy was was a lot moretrue than it is today.
Um I think people you havedifferent audiences on them, and
uh so your audience on LinkedInmight be different than than who
(24:43):
they are on Facebook.
But um with the the types ofcontent and the and the things
that you post, there's nothingmagical about LinkedIn that says
you only can post this type ofcontent and only this type of
content will work on LinkedIn oror even on on Facebook.
There's nothing magical aboutthat platform that only says
this is what is this is whatworks.
(25:05):
If you're engaging andinteresting on either of them,
it's gonna work, right?
Um, but you've just got to findout what what does what does
your audience like?
Um, and that's not the same.
That's not something you canformalize for every business or
even every business in anindustry.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
Yeah, no, I but to Alan's now now.
I'll come back to Alan's point.
I think yeah, the question, ifJeremy, if I was you and you
came and talked to me, you'relike, Chris, if I'm your buddy
at the bar after playing aroundto golf, what do you tell me
your advertising budget is?
Because I've done this, and uh,I will tell you, um, similar to
my golf game, I will tell youit's overinflated.
(25:41):
But if I came back and you cameto me and said, Hey, I want to
take your money, how much am Igonna give you?
I'm gonna go back and say, Um,by the way, I don't know if you
guys saw me play golf, but I'mreally bad at it, you know,
horrible.
So I'm only gonna give you athousand dollars, um, even
though I said my budget wasgonna be thirty thousand a
month.
Um, I think that's aninteresting conversation.
You know, hey, which what do youtell your buddies at the at the
(26:04):
bar after golf?
And what do you want to tell me?
You want to tell me zero, andyou want to tell them, uh man, I
could stroke a hundred grandevery day.
Let's go.
I think that's yeah, you talkabout honest conversations, but
it doesn't start with honesty,especially when you're talking
to me.
I mean, no, seriously.
I mean, I talk to a lot ofbusiness owners.
I think um we have one publicpersona and one of the I'm the
(26:26):
imposter persona, and it's hardfor us to get there.
So, how do you get them throughthat?
How do you start to figure outthat these guys will have that
honest dialogue with you?
S (26:35):
SPEAKER_05
what are they willing to put ona check?
Um, right?
That's where that's you don'treally get much more honest than
that.
Like, what can what can you cuta check for?
SPEAKER_03 (26:47):
And so Well, and my guess is the answer is hey, if
it works, I'll put as much moneyas I have in it, but they're
afraid it's not going to work.
Yes, yeah.
So it's like how much are youwilling to gamble, Chris?
Like when you go to Vegas,what's your number?
SPEA (27:04):
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
Uh, there's the answer I tell mywife, and there's the answer I
tell my buddies, and it'ssomewhere in the middle.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Ten grand, big boy, big daddy's coming in strong.
SPE (27:15):
SPEAKER_02
Well, I'm at a thousand.
I'm gonna thousand.
I'm not gonna spend any morethan a thousand.
I mean, that's it.
When I go there, I'm I'm onlygonna lose a thousand dollars.
Okay, and so by the way, it'ssomewhere in the middle, which
we would have said.
And for that, you can emailChris at the trusted toolbox to
find out what the real numberis, and I'll let you know.
But I not unless you email me.
And if you email me and say,Chris, what is that number?
(27:36):
I'll I'll tell you what it is.
SPEAKER_05 (27:39):
But I think part of it is that's free.
Part of it is just gettingpeople to think in a in a way
that they may have not havethought of it before.
Because a lot of people that wesee come in, they're they're
spending money, they don'treally even have a good idea of
what all they're spending theirmarketing dollars on or how to
measure it.
And so having them having themsit down and think, all right,
(28:01):
if I spend this much, this iswhat I can expect out of it.
It's it's uh and in animmeasurable way.
Um it's it's maybe a new way ofthinking.
And so sometimes it takes alittle people a little bit to
kind of start wrapping theirmind around, all right, if this
is where I want to be, thenmaybe I do need to to invest
more in it to get there.
(28:22):
Um, but then going back to therelationship side, it is it's a
it's a lot of building of trustand and saying we're we know
what we're doing, right?
We've done it, we've done it forfor um all these clients over
here.
We know what we're doing.
You can trust us.
Is it guaranteed?
No, by no mean, by no means isanything that we do guaranteed,
(28:42):
right?
But we sometimes we try torelate it back to their
business.
Like if you were a mechanic andand I said, All right, I'm
getting my I'll I'll come andget this stuff fixed.
Can you guarantee me that my carwon't break down in in the next
year?
No, no, but nobody's nobody'sgonna give that guarantee,
right?
Because there's just so many umthings that are that are uh uh
variables at play.
SPEAKE (29:04):
SPEAKER_02
You actually hit on uh somethingthat I think is probably
disrupting your industry, andthat's attribution.
How can you get the ROI when youdon't know where it came from?
Because um, when I first startedin 2008, I was told you have to
be in the phone book.
And I was like, this the factthat's probably one of the top
five smartest things I've everdone.
(29:25):
Um, and that was I didn't do thephone book, um, but I did do
print advertising becauseeverybody says no, you got to be
in the valve packs, you'll bethe money mailers.
Oh my god, and this is allbefore Google was a thing.
I mean, yeah, I mean, but it'shappening so so here comes AI,
it's another disruptor, right?
So attribution's got to be sohard for you to prove to
somebody about what to do.
So, how do you take them throughthat?
Because there, I mean, hey, youcan put up 500 billboards, or
(29:47):
you know, in a smaller town, youcan put up 10 billboards.
Okay, great.
It's still a chunk of change,bro.
And that's not making the phonering.
So how do you take them throughthat transactional versus
relational advertising?
SP (29:59):
SPEAKER_05
measure what what we're doing,and and to your point,
attribution is um becoming lessand less reliable um for
multiple reasons.
Um one I partly is because theveil is kind of getting pulled
back on all of this, like thisdata that's um we've been sold
(30:21):
uh as as uh really you know,this way to track people and and
do all these things and measureeverything.
A lot of that was kind of a umum we got scammed a little bit
on that.
Um and so Can you name a namerealize it?
Who's Canvas?
Go ahead and name a name.
I'll tell you.
(30:42):
Google, Google, it was you.
Yeah, Google.
SPE (30:45):
SPEAKER_03
Well, I'll say that by the waywhat happened.
SPEAKER_05 (30:47):
Well, one of one of the one of the things that we're
dealing with right now, um, andever since it started happening
was uh like Google's performancemax campaigns, right?
So they'll they'll grabconversions from any place that
they can grab a conversion, butthey didn't they didn't give
that conversion.
Like, but they'll they'll saythey did because they want your
money and they want to say, hey,this is this is very valuable
(31:08):
and we're converting a lot ofpeople.
Like they maybe saw you knowthat they maybe saw a display ad
that was just like the verybottom of their telephone screen
and and then went and bought itwhen they were going to buy it
anyways.
So anyways, that sort of stuffis kind of what we're what we're
combating and and and trying toto work around these days.
(31:29):
But there's other ways tomeasure, right?
At the end of the day, um whatwe want to see is the bottom
line is like, all right, are areyou making more money than you
were before you started workingwith us?
And that requires sometransparency on on our client
side of of you know we need tosee we need to see sales
numbers.
We need to see to see if are wegoing in the right direction you
(31:50):
know on the days that we did XYZdid that help or did that did
that uh hurt?
And so the more the moretransparency we can have in that
conversation the better becauseit helps us helps inform what
we're doing.
And so other ways of measuringjust your your brand awareness.
So any any sort of brandawareness marketing you're doing
(32:12):
from billboards to um you knowbroad you know streaming ads,
that sort of stuff um it reallyis hard to measure all right is
this is this doing what it needsto do.
And so one of the ways wemeasure that is just seeing how
how many times are peoplesearching for you by name,
right?
Let's start before you beforeyou started doing all these
(32:32):
things um and get a baseline ofof how often people search for
your business by name.
And then you know a few monthsafter how often are people going
to Google and searching for youknow XYZ HVAC company or XYZ
Plumbing Company by name and andthe we've always talked about
the funnel like the sales funnelfrom you know this kind of this
uh from the side angle reallywhere you can see the wider top
(32:56):
at the um at the top and the thenarrow at the bottom what I like
to to show people is kind offrom the top down you've got
three concentric circles rightso you got the big the big outer
circle is your brand awarenessyou got a middle circle which is
that mid funnel decision makingconsideration phase and you got
that that small circle right inthe middle that is your lower
(33:16):
funnel um and everybody'sfighting over that small that
small center circle right likeyou go HVAC companies plumbers
they're paying$20$30 a click umfighting over that that little
circle right there.
And what a lot of them areleaving um uh for anybody to
grab is that big circle if youcan grab people out here if you
(33:40):
can be that that company thatthey know by name that they're
whistling the jingle to and thatthey're they're talking about if
you can be that company outhere, you've already won them by
the time they're here becauseyou know what they're not going
and searching for you know HVACKnoxville they're going to
searching for you by name um oreven if they're not searching
for you by name when they seeyour name pop up they say oh hey
(34:01):
I recognize that guy and theyclick on that.
SPEAKER_03 (34:03):
And so it's hard to get new new clients to go for an
awareness budget though becausethey want call to action.
S (34:11):
SPEAKER_02
I I a hundred percent but I Ithink what Jeremy's talking
about is if if you're justbeginning I I need that phone to
ring I need that form to befilled out I need that website
form.
SPEAKER_05 (34:23):
I mean you've got to get to me because I need money
now because revenue is king wellcash is king revenue is queen
you know I've said that a lot umbut I I but Jeremy's talking
about something I just uh wejust talked about a couple weeks
ago where I'm seeing a changeand I'm I'm gonna ask you this
question is that namerecognition brand recognition is
(34:45):
more important today than itused to be because of
familiarity and awareness andthe ability to get out there and
be omnipresent um what do youthink about that because that's
a lot of money to go out thereand spend on uh on that and not
get that immediate return um yesso uh so I I would say you you
you need to have is someinvestment at every level of the
(35:07):
funnel right um that's idealright if you're if your budget
is is such that you can put somelower some mid some some brand
um that's the ideal place to bewhen you're first starting out
though you uh like you saidyou're you're you're fighting
over that that center circlebecause you don't have you don't
have the reputation you don'thave the the budget to really
(35:30):
fight in this bigger arena outhere and so that we we walk um a
lot of our smaller clientsthrough uh what we call climb
club um and it is uh reallybuilt for businesses that are in
that two million dollar a yearand less range where you you've
got you've got to put in somehustle right you've got to put
in some blood sweat and tears inyour marketing yourself because
(35:52):
at that level you really don'thave a budget that makes sense
to go pay a marketing agency todo the things for you.
So you've got to be you've gotto be out there shaking hands.
You've got to be out thereknocking on doors do getting
your name out there.
SPEAKER_02 (36:05):
But I what we try to emphasize is all of that is a
lot easier if you have a verystrong distinctive brand right
if you're going out there as hiI'm uh you know Jeremy Leduc's
insurance company it's the mostforgettable thing in the world
and you are it's you're gonnait's gonna be an uphill battle
for you every step of the way umbut if you go out there with a
(36:28):
with a distinct name somethingthat a a theme a mascot if you
if you can have a mascot get adamn mascot like the the saying
is fur fur sells and it does andso you don't have a mascot I
don't have a mascot what wouldyour mascot be I don't know I
was thinking I just got a greatinsurance tagline because I got
a great friend who's aninsurance we've had him on
(36:49):
Brusty Clifton and I'm like heyinsurance you're gonna die
anyway we may have we may haveto workshop that a little bit
what is my mascot oh my god Ineed a mascot I I had turbo uh
because I stole my uh friend'sdog actually I babysat for a uh
a dog sat for a weekend becauseum um but you're right uh you
(37:11):
know what they do sell that uhthey're they're memorable
they're memorable stupid lizardI'm gonna go I'm gonna go
armadillo I think that'd begreat roach to get five roach
armadillo armadillos because wehammered it doesn't actually get
in a house it doesn't actuallyhave to have fur it just needs
(37:32):
to be it needs to have eyes anda smile I think so armadillo
could work I mean cartoon onesdo squirrel mascot ones would be
more appropriate actually I lovesquirrels because they beat up
houses they eat up houses and wego fix them after they're done
and you got the same attentionspan and what yeah okay all
right your tagline could be likeyou're you're gonna go nuts for
(37:52):
us oh I got freebie JeremyLeDuc's insurance aid no it's
not it's Jeremy LeDuc's climbclub climb club kids that one I
love that phrase too becauseyou're right in the beginning if
you would have came to me orAlan when we first starting a
business and said hey I need youguys to uh invest in the upper
end of the funnel we would havesaid hey Jeremy um you need to
(38:13):
invest and get into that doorand uh we'll see you tomorrow
yeah goodbye because I need thatphone to ring you're like dude I
can't make the phone ring backin the day because we didn't
have the internet I mean it wasthere but it wasn't there and we
had to have that phone to ringbecause if I if I if you ain't
coming in man I can't spendmoney on sponsoring kids' events
(38:33):
or sponsoring golf events like Ido or or doing the network but
you talked about it in thebeginning you got to hustle we
talked about networking that'show we made that smaller ring
work.
Yeah and I what a cool piece ofadvice I I like that instead of
I mean that tells me you knowJeremy's not just coming for my
money you know he uh heunderstands where I am and what
I need to do and and you guysboth uh let's talk about this so
(38:57):
you're both introverts and Iknow I met Alan in networking
and I never knew he wasintroverted um I'm a gregarious
introvert so and Jeremy I'm I'mI force myself to be an
extrovert when I need to soyou're a forced you're a forced
networker you're a forcedintrovert yeah and it wears you
guys out he says I'm exhaustedat the end of those I said dude
I can barely go to sleep thatnight after a networking event
(39:19):
because I'm so pumped up becausefor me I get energy from it I
know for you guys you have togive but you just talked about
it this might not be yourcomfort zone but if you don't
want to spend the big bucks thisis the small things to get to
that smaller circle and we'reall doing this on the YouTube.
SPEAKER_05 (39:33):
You can see it small circle medium circle big circle
so you want to save some moneygo out there and do the
networking and if you can't finda sales guy who can but nobody
tells you it's like it's forit's free it's free right it
just takes your time you just gospend 30 minutes or an hour
shaking hands um and the bestadvice that I can give to
someone if you're if you feelvery awkward and you really hate
(39:55):
those things the good news ismost of the other people at
those things do too.
And so if if all you have to dois go just work up the courage
to shake somebody's hand andstart asking them questions.
The minute you start asking themquestions about themselves and
about their business you'veyou've got some rapport with
them and you've won a friend.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
And so um it's a and also it kind of takes the
attention off of you and and andlets you um uh make a connection
that is a great point because asan introvert and uh uh Alan's a
curious introvert here's why Iliked him so much he kept asking
questions about me and I love toanswer questions about me and
(40:35):
that's why we hit it off but noseriously enough about me let's
talk about me thank you uh Alanplease I'm talking but I think
that's a great way to look atthis when you go to these
networking events guys if youjust start asking questions to
people and talk I'll I'll goback to yeah you're not selling
you're not selling it no I wasat a Johns Creek uh chamber
(40:55):
event what years ago and Alanwas there too and this guy came
out to me and all he did wastalk about himself I mean I
didn't get a word out and I lovetalking about me yeah and I just
listened to him and I was likedude this guy doesn't even know
who I was he I gave him my cardhe turned out to be one of my
biggest supporters tellingeverybody how great my company
was he didn't know one thing allI did was listen to him he
(41:18):
didn't even know what I did Imean I thought he didn't but he
did and next thing you knowthey're like oh no he said call
no no bob said call Bob said andI was like where'd this guy come
from I'm like I I didn't even Iwasn't thinking you were going
there with that story I thoughtwe were going leg humpers no
this guy these guys are leghumpers oh yeah but but I
thought I all I did was sitthere and just listen and listen
and listen and he told everybodyhow great of a guy I was but to
(41:41):
networking on the other side ifyou're if you're an introvert
and that's what I've seen is thepeople who overcompensate are
the leg humpers.
So I don't know how to network.
S (41:50):
SPEAKER_03
people so when I get there Icome up and I just grab you and
I go hey Jeremy um I have thebest uh remodeling company and
handyman company in the worldand you know I'd love to work in
your house and what can I workin your house and you're like
dude just get away from me referme to three of your friends and
uh yeah get away from my leg youfurry friend and so I'm not our
(42:14):
mascot by the way but I am furryuh that I mean not up here in
the head just I hope to say Itold you about the whole uh
brand awareness advertising dealat Enterprise didn't I no yeah
it was the first time soEnterprise when I started was
the fourth largest rental carcompany in North America and
nobody knew about who they wereand so suddenly uh and I was at
(42:36):
middle management at that pointthey uh they had a big meeting
and we're gonna start an adcampaign which we were all
excited about and then we seethe commercial and it's the rap
car and it's the hey I'm at theshop can you pick us up zero
call to action zero discountzero anything and we all looked
at each other and we're likewhat is going on you're spending
what and they that's when theyexplained to us the brand
(42:58):
awareness because when peoplewere making decisions and they
saw the list of names ofcompanies to call and they saw
our name they didn't even seeit.
And so it was a it was a matterof a couple of years to where
the focus groups would show thatwhen they were given that same
list of names they werepredisposed to calling us as a
(43:21):
result of those years ofadvertising whereas before they
wouldn't even consider it theywould have gone with Hertz or
Avis or anybody that they theyknew of so it I mean but that's
working with corporate budgets.
Not and you know like Chris issaying you know you start your
own shop you you don't feel likeyou have the time to do it.
No.
SPEAKER_05 (43:40):
But is there a way to kind of do that at the same
time while you're having call toaction stuff I well I I think
it's it's one of those thingswhere you having a call to
action on on something on abillboard or whatever it doesn't
really do you any good.
Nobody's driving down the roadthinking oh hey I'm I need to
call the plumber right now rightthey're they're thinking I need
to call the plumber when they'rewhen their uh sink is is pouring
(44:03):
water out from under it.
Um so um though those utilizingcall to actions when you should
just be using from for brand iskind of a waste I believe
because you could do some reallycreative advertising at the end
of that um at the end of thatcommercial rather than having
you know 10 seconds of yourphone number put up there.
(44:24):
So um there there are some youknow I'm I'm and I'm I'm being
very generalized with that butum I think there are some times
when that makes sense but uh ifyou're gonna do brand awareness
do brand awareness do somethingthat's memorable and that people
will bring call to mind whenthey need you yeah all jokes
(44:44):
aside if we talked about liquiddeath and we and then we kept
going on with that death theme.
SPEA (44:48):
SPEAKER_02
I mean and you can do thatwithout a marketing agency and
then when you get together andstart talking with somebody like
a Jeremy you know expand yourmind a little bit and then open
up and have an honest dialoguewith them as opposed to to not
doing it I think that's whatwe're missing and that's what we
need to do.
And I know we're coming up onthe end Jeremy so how does
everybody find you so we canclimb up that mountain we're
(45:10):
gonna go to climb camp one.
SPEAKER_05 (45:11):
Yep actually Chris is on the dad jokes.
Yeah it's it's it's a base campyeah we get we start at we start
at base camp oh base camp uhyeah yeah do we eat there at
base camp yeah Chris just wantsto get a helicopter to the top
yeah that's that's can we justuh helicopter up to my versus if
you've got if you've got thebudget we can take you there
yeah now we're talking we'll putyou on the helicopter chris at
(45:32):
the trusted toolbox.com give mesome budget so I can take the
helicopter up on your breast ifthey uh uh give people two two
or actually three ways to tokind of um find out more um epic
nine uh our agency if if ifyou're if you're looking to do
any sort of branding strategy umuh campaigns um all that sort of
(45:55):
stuff epic nine dot com love towork with you um if you are kind
of in that that bootstrap modeor you're you're still kind of
getting things off the groundand and you got more hustle than
budget um right now um then thetheclimclub.com is a is a great
place to start and so we'vebuilt out a uh uh suite of uh
(46:15):
packages of of products andservices built for um folks in
that position um and yeah andthen also uh the the book wrote
a book about being a a um localentrepreneur in a in a uh you
know mid-size America town whatdoes it take to kind of DIY your
marketing and so it's a kind ofa narrative uh business book um
(46:38):
where you follow the story of aof a uh small main street
retailer that is um learning howto to do her own marketing and
and at the same time you get alot of you get a lot of
practical nuts and bolts ummarketing give me the title uh
climb um so uh you can go totheclim dot guide or you can
(47:00):
find it on uh uh bookshop.org oramazon guys i know a couple of
you guys are listening this isright up your alley because uh
i've talked to a lot of homeservice providers but what he's
talking about is exactly whati've talked to um at least six
of you about uh and this is agreat one so there's there's an
easy read right there i'm sureit's an easy read for all of us
(47:21):
right it's not it's not onepiece right you're right yeah no
i i i think it's i hope it'seasy yeah good so you got that
you got the bootstrappers let'sgo the climb and then if you're
ready to rock and roll and takeyour business from a million to
a billion or five billion likeliquid death you go to jerry
milled jeremy leduke's epic ninedot com i love this stuff man
this has been a greatconversation alan yep it's been
(47:44):
fun you got you guys are fungood all right it's gonna be
more fun we're gonna put lots oflegitimate questions thank you
for the life support did Chrisrevive the patient oh I think we
lost him sir all right now we'rechecking to see if you uh
listened to our or read ouremail what are the final four
questions what is a book you'drecommend that's not yours to
(48:06):
our audience uh by if you'releading a team of any sort
Patricki's five dysfunctions ofa team um one of the just the
best leadership books that isjust great for for any sort of
um team environment all rightwhat is the favorite feature of
your home hang on sorry I I lostyou can you hear me yeah I can
(48:30):
hear you can you hear mefavorite feature of your home
it's better be your wi-fi yougot me yeah yeah I can hear you
yeah I didn't hear the secondquestion favorite feature of
your home oh favorite feature ofthe home um uh oh goodness
that's that's so tough I wouldsay it's it's the uh the little
(48:53):
outside uh patio area that wegot um love love sitting out
there in the summer becauseyou're in Tennessee got
beautiful weather a lot of timesI mean that's why everybody's
moving there all right we havenot talked about customer
service talking about how to getcustomers but and we're kind of
crazy about our uh customerwe're kind of customer service
(49:13):
freaks oh my god yes what's acustomer service pet peeve of
yours when you're out there andyou're the customer um the the
over empathy uh you know youknow you know talking about that
that uh oh we under weunderstand this is such a this
we hate that you are goingthrough this and this is a this
is a we know this is a uh uh adisappointment to you just kind
(49:36):
of that that just all right justlay lay off a little bit
insincere I'll tell you what uhAI is doing that right now we're
uh we're implementing an AIagent this and we're trying to
tone it back down I'm likepeople do not want to hear that
they do not want to hear overand over and over oh I'm so
sorry to hear that tell me moreoh I'm so sorry to hear so
here's your email and they'regiving you the wrong email
(49:58):
address so we're we're dialingour AI back back a little bit
that isn't that funny yeah likeyeah is there anything else I
can help you with um yeah thefirst fucking thing I called you
about yeah oh that's awesome allright last thing so I'm in
construction I love doing it butum I tell you what I've had a
lot of DIY nightmares I want tohear a DIY nightmare of yours
(50:20):
because of construction of shityeah not not a construct or
something you did and I'm sayinglook at these fingers people
look at them online you guysdon't see them all but there's
been a lot of nails put that onein the middle is massive that is
bad that was uh that was a handclamp um this one well actually
that one was football but that'sdifferent for I so so i've I've
(50:41):
only I've only owned old homeslike my first my first house was
built in 1937 the house we're innow is 54 so there's plenty of
things to do uh in in the housesI've been in and um I I've
screwed them all up I'm I I'veI'm I'm horrible I'd have to I
have to redo it right I'll I'llwatch I'll watch the YouTube
(51:04):
videos and then I'll I'll gothrough and I'll try to follow
them all and then something goeswrong.
I would say my my worst DIY um Ican tell my funniest I'll tell
you my funniest DIY I'm in forfunny all right so um I was
refinishing the floors in my inmy first house and uh sanded
them all down got got all thatdone um and was uh I didn't put
(51:27):
any stain on it I was just gonnaput the the uh finish the
polyurethane finish on it and soI was I was working late it was
like one in the morning and I Iwas you know with a brush
painting painting these floorsand I started having the
weirdest thoughts man I was mymind was going places that I
hadn't I had never been beforeright yeah and so I was I was
(51:51):
like what and I I started Istarted just feeling so weird
and I'm like why why why do Ifeel high like why am I what's
going on I realized like I'd I'dforgot to to get the uh I was in
the hallway and so there wasreally no circulation and and so
um I was high on polyurethanefumes um and it took me it took
(52:12):
me a while of fresh air and justlaying down to to get over that
that is amazing I love thatstory oh my god I've been high
on fumes before too literally Imean I'm not even talking I mean
you're like whoo we're closed inin a room and I forgot that we
had plastic off the room so theclients couldn't smell it and we
were like we doggy heyeverything looks so green all of
(52:32):
a sudden yeah man I love thisJerry Milleduc there you go Epic
nine the climb club or go checkout his book this has been an
epic conversation we've had funwe got to get going get up that
mountaintop let's make it gohappen cheers everybody we gotta
go thanks you guys thank you forlistening to this episode of the
Small Business Departmentremember your positive attitude
(52:55):
will help you achieve thathigher altitude you're looking
for in the wild world smallbusiness understanding until
next time make it a great day
SPEAKER_05
what are they willing to put ona check?
Um, right?
That's where that's you don'treally get much more honest than
that.
Like what can what can you cut acheck for?
SPEAKER_03 (00:12):
And so Well, and I'm my guess is the answer is hey,
if it works, I'll put as muchmoney as I have in it, but
they're afraid it's not going towork.
Yes.
Yeah.
So it's like how much are youwilling to gamble, Chris?
Like when you go to Vegas,what's your number?
SPEA (00:30):
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
Uh, there's the answer I tell mywife, and there's the answer I
tell my buddies, and it'ssomewhere in the middle.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Ten grand, big boy, big daddy's coming in big
strong.
SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
Honey, how much you a thousand.
Or I'm at a thousand.
I'm gonna tell you, I'm notgonna spend any more than a
thousand.
I mean, that's it.
When I go there, I'm I'm onlygonna lose a thousand dollars,
okay?
And so by the way, it'ssomewhere in the middle between
one and ten.
And for that, you can emailChris at the trusted toolbox to
find out what the real numberis, and I'll let you know.
But I not unless you email me.
If you email me and say, Chris,what is that number?
(01:02):
I'll I'll tell you what it is.
Welcome to the Small BusinessSafari, where I help guide you
to avoid those traps, pitfalls,and dangers that lurk when
navigating the wild world ofsmall business ownership.
I'll share those gold nuggets ofinformation and invite guests to
help accelerate your ascent tothat mountaintop of success.
It's a jungle out there, and Iwant to help you traverse
through the levels of owningyour own business that can get
you bogged down and distract youfrom hitting your own personal
(01:24):
and professional goals.
So strap in Adventure Team andlet's take a ride through this
safari.
Alan, I can't believe youactually said that before we
went on air that you called mean extrovert.
(01:44):
I take that thing to heart.
And yes, I identify it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:48):
Kind of implied that you were being obnoxious.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
And I am obnoxious.
Thank you again, Alan, forletting us all know that we do
that.
Once again, everybody, we'reback.
You're driving.
I've been watching the stats.
I tell you what, I love thatwe're getting listens.
I just had another person reachout to me saying, Love what you
guys are doing, keep it up.
You know what?
You're one of the few podcasts Ilook forward to listening to.
I was like, hey, tell yourfriends, tell like a thousand
(02:11):
more, will you?
SPEAKER_03 (02:12):
SPEAKER_03
Isn't that cool though thatthere's somebody out there and
they they get excited when theysee it drop?
SPEAKER_0 (02:17):
SPEAKER_02
Well, I don't know if he saidthat, but he did he definitely
at one of the golf events.
Yeah, he would he came up to meand says, Oh, yeah, yeah, I
listened to your podcast.
I look forward to it.
And uh, I thought that was socool because um so Alan had a
big time, played a little bit ofgolf, we're in the golf season.
We were supposed to be there,and I was supposed to be there.
S (02:36):
SPEAKER_03
SPEAKER_02 (02:37):
We need we we needed the big mouth, is what we
needed.
But no, I had played two charityevents and uh in two scrambles
in a row.
I always joke that uh if thereare if there are 88 players and
that makes 24 teams, I can't dothe math.
We're usually a solid likemiddle of the pack 12.
And in this case, we ended up infifth and fourth.
(02:59):
Um, not because of this guy,because I play with some really
cool guys, and I also play witha really old guy, Alan.
Older than me?
Older than you.
And uh I said, I said, hey Alan,this guy got to play from the
red teas.
He goes, You mean I could haveplayed from the red tees?
I'm like, yeah, I said, and Ireally wanted you there, but I
had gotten invited that one.
(03:19):
So loving golf, but uh Alaninvited me to one.
I was supposed to be there, andI am still super jelly because
it's up in the mountains of uhGeorgia.
It's at Old Tacoa, Old TacoaFarm.
Great course, great course.
Uh up in Blue Ridge, got to playwith our good friends at
DeCouffles who've been on thepodcast.
SPEAKER_03 (03:37):
The whole thing was podcast people.
We had Tim from Next GenLighting and then Ted.
Temple of Ted four years ago,Temple of Ted talking about
marketing.
SPEAKER_02 (03:48):
What are we talking about today?
Hmm.
I may market full circle.
We have come full circle today.
We've got Jeremy Leduc on, andwe're gonna talk all kinds of
marketing.
We're gonna talk aboutpersonality types, we're gonna
talk about how Jeremy shouldnever ever pick up the game of
golf.
Uh, because while it sounds likea lot of fun, it's super
frustrating when you get old andyou really start to suck like I
(04:09):
am.
Jeremy, welcome to you.
SPEAKER_05 (04:11):
It sounds like a lot of time and a lot of money.
Um, two things that that I don'thave at this point in my life.
SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Time, money, and uh, oh, by the way, your blood
pressure goes skyrocketing, anduh, that's why I still take
blood pressure medication.
SPEA (04:24):
SPEAKER_03
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
Here's to that with our small business safari
bourbon cups Jeremy, welcome tothe show, man.
Happy to have you on.
Thanks for having me.
About what you do and um whatmakes you so cool doing it.
SP (04:39):
SPEAKER_05
almost 12 years ago.
Um, and we uh do everything frombranding strategy to web design,
video production, advertising,all the things, right?
So we we really like to workwith brands that are ambitious
and they want to grow, and theyhave some they have some kind of
well-defined goals that they'reuh reaching for.
(05:02):
And so what we do, and kind ofthe secret sauce that that we
like to bring to the the game isum ideas that push them a little
bit on their creativity, ontheir branding, and and help
them think outside the box sothat they can capture attention,
right?
Marketing is a um it's it'swe're dealing in the economy of
(05:23):
attention.
And if it your advertising andyour campaigns are not
memorable, then they're wastingmoney.
So um that's what we that's whatwe like to do.
We like to make uh those dollarsgo as far as they can and and
grow businesses.
SPEAK (05:36):
SPEAKER_02
We are in the attentionbusiness.
I love that phrase because yeah,right now, uh I wish it was
mine.
S (05:42):
SPEAKER_05
I got it from somebody else.
I it's not mine, but but I loveit.
SP (05:46):
SPEAKER_02
Do what did he say?
I mean, because I had noattention.
I mean, they say goldfish sevenseconds.
This kid's like three and a halfflat, baby.
I can go from zero to sixty inthree and a half.
What'd you say?
Where where are we at?
But you're right.
I mean, we're trying to grabattention in a very busy world.
I just had a guy say, Hey, myyou know, I my my time is my run
time.
I when I go run, I don't eventake music, I just go run.
(06:08):
I was like, for how long?
He goes, six miles.
I said, so is that like 80minutes?
He goes, So a little faster thanthat.
I'm like, okay.
I said, so what do you do?
He goes, I'm just a man with mythoughts.
I'm like, ooh, that's dangerous.
SPEAKER_05 (06:21):
You you go into some like some strange places if you
don't have any music to keepyour mind occupied while you
run, like you you go down somedark trails sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
I know dark, and I yes, I know those trails.
You talked about it, theattention management.
Uh, you talk about beingmemorable.
What do you think the mostmemorable marketing thing ever
was that you you like you comein and tell people, hey, here's
my example.
SP (06:45):
SPEAKER_05
because this one is just too alittle too extreme.
And I think most people in theearth they think, oh, we can
never do anything like that.
But um, it's the Liquid Deathbrand.
I don't know if y'all arefamiliar with Liquid Death.
Yeah.
I mean, they came into asaturated market, no pun
intended, right?
So bottled water.
(07:07):
Um, you know, you go to the yougo to the cooler at the gas
station, you open up the door,and you're just gonna see this
wall of blue with some, youknow, springs and mountains and
maybe some some woodlandcreatures on the bottles.
Um, and it all looks the same,right?
It you really can't tell onefrom another, and they're really
not that different.
There's some people that saythey can taste the difference in
(07:27):
water, but they're just reallynot different.
I think they're completelylying.
SPEAKE (07:30):
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it's um so bottled wateris 100% vanity, I think.
SP (07:37):
SPEAKER_02
bottling water as it's thetrusted toolbox water source,
and I just use my hose out back,fill up these bottles, and then
put them all back on.
SPEAKER (07:44):
SPEAKER_05
Well, and and I'm yeah, I'm I'mpretty sure like if you look at
it like bottled bottled in LosAngeles, um, it's like, what
kind of water is this?
So um so liquid death.
Yeah, yeah.
So liquid liquid death came onthe scene, and they just
decided, listen, what what canwe do just to disrupt this and
to um be distinct, stand out?
And so one, they put it in acan, right?
(08:06):
Um that that gets you points onwater quality, in my opinion.
Like I can tell when water comesfrom a can versus a bottle
that's like the I can taste thatdifference.
Um, so they're in a can.
Um, and they have a they have apurpose behind that, but not
really too many people I don'tthink really care about the
purpose uh for it beingrecyclable.
But they came out in a can, theyput a skull on it.
(08:27):
It looks more like a beer uh canthan a water can.
And um, they just themed theirwhole brand around death.
Um, they've they had a mascotfor a while that was this like
headless guy with a chainsaw oran axe or something.
And so super yeah, theiradvertising is just so off the
wall extreme as well.
(08:49):
Um, they did a uh they took allof their hate comments at one
point.
Uh, this is a few years ago.
They took all of their commentsthat they've gotten on fate on
social media um that werenegative and they turned them
into uh like an 80s rock album.
Um, and and they left all thecuss words in and everything.
So it's fantastic.
Oh, I love that.
(09:09):
SPEAKER_02
I I uh went to our local grocerystore, buy one, get one free,
liquid death.
I'm like, you know, I'm gonna doit.
You know, why not why not?
So I got the the BOGO secretsauce, secret story.
If you buy one, you still get ithalf off.
Hello.
I did it.
I brought it home, put it in theuh in the refrigerator.
My daughter comes back to visitand she goes grabbing for it,
and I watch her and she goes,What's this?
(09:30):
Because she already drank it.
She was thinking it was like ahigh noon, like an alcoholic
drink.
She goes, It said liquid death.
I'm like, You better read it alittle closer there.
S (09:38):
SPEAKER_03
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
Yeah, she was going for it thinking she was sneaking
in, and she's like, I got thevodka, baby.
Yeah, that's funny.
SPEAKER (09:47):
SPEAKER_01
S (09:47):
SPEAKER_05
very risky thing to do, right?
Like nobody else was doing it.
And if and if it had failed,like several people would have
gotten fired, I'm sure.
Like if if this was a if acorporate decision and around a
boardroom and someone said, Hey,I got this idea, if it had
failed, they would have gottenfired.
They wouldn't have gotten firedif the clear bottle with a blue
(10:09):
label had failed, right?
Right, right.
Stayed in the north.
Yeah, safe.
It's safe.
What was your role in all this?
Oh, I had no role.
It's just it's just my exampleof a great, great brand that
yes.
I I wish I had a role.
SPEAKER_03 (10:22):
Um, I'd throw you, I'd throw you a little puttball
like that, Jeremy.
Hit it out of the park.
SPEAKER_02 (10:28):
Yeah, well, tell us how you did something funny like
that then.
Come on, tough guy.
SPEAKER_05 (10:30):
What do you give us an example of so we we get the
well I want to go back to thisexample really quick?
So the thing that that uh Ithink kind of proves the the um
usefulness of all this is thatthey went from you know startup
to nearly a billion dollarinvaluation, um, I think in like
five to six years.
(10:51):
And so um just in in water,right?
Like we've got so many choicesof water, but they they knocked
out of the park.
Get the hose, Alan.
SPEAKE (10:59):
SPEAKER_03
toolbox of death.
SPEAKER_02 (11:02):
That you know what, maybe they'll get people.
Actually, one thing I am gonnatake away, everybody, is uh we
always shy away from badreviews.
Um, we all hate them, right?
You don't you don't like badreviews, especially in the home
services business or anythingwhere you're out there in
public.
We hate them.
But what if you embraced themonce and did that and made an
80s rock song out of it, or tookall your bad reviews and just
plastered them up there?
(11:23):
Because when you look at all thebad reviews, you can start to
figure out hmm, there might besome crazy people out there
reviewing you that maybe youweren't so bad, but maybe they
were nuts.
SPEAKER_03 (11:32):
Um wasn't a Kimmel that would uh have people read
bad reviews.
Mean tweets, mean tweets, yeah.
Mean tweets were hilarious,yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
So uh I like I like that idea again.
Something to think about.
I'm not saying I'm not espousingmarketing.
Uh Jeremy is here, he's notmarketing.
That was not his idea.
Um, so if it doesn't work, it'snot on him nor I.
Uh, and this financial advice isonly based on past precedent,
not future.
I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
So toolbox of death, or or we could go the other way
and go like, you know, sinister,let's see.
Sinister toolbox or ormischievous toolbox.
SPEAKER_02 (12:06):
What if I did like an animal house?
I I branded all my trucks.
I just made a big skull out ofit, and I just keep rolling
around.
They always camedo-do-do-do-do-do.
Here they come.
Oh, I'm gonna let this guy in myhouse.
I don't know our our our newuniform is gonna be um a sleeve
of tattoo shirt and uh black andskull bones.
(12:26):
I'm thinking a Jason mask, and aJason mask will show up at your
door like that.
Perfect.
SP (12:31):
SPEAKER_05
You just gotta own it becauseyou're you're I don't think I
can allow it.
You're gonna have a market thatthat that's the only reason
that's the sole reason they theyuh do it is because they want
the Jason mask at their door.
S (12:43):
SPEAKER_02
example, and I I know you usethat example with people to kind
of get people thinking out ofthe box.
Yeah, um, I know you've alsobranded yourself as going up the
mountains, which we talk abouthere at the small business
safari a lot.
So when you start to engage withsomebody, tell us a little bit
about how you work with somebodyand because you work with those
small companies looking to be abillion in five years, like we
(13:04):
all are.
Um, I'm just 17 years behindafter 17 years.
Um I think just a hundredmillion would be fine, don't
you?
You know, I'm not, I'm not, I'mnot greedy.
You're a little greedy.
I'll do a fractional share jet.
I don't need a full jet.
Is that good?
SPEAKER_03 (13:19):
All right, anyway, Jeremy, how do you work with
people?
You're maturing.
unknown (13:22):
unknown
S (13:24):
SPEAKER_05
whenever someone uh comes inwith us is we figure out goals,
right?
We figure out what where are youtrying to get to.
Um, because at the end of theday, if we don't have something
clearly defined, then we're notgonna know if what we did was
successful or not.
And so we try to try to getthose uh smart goals.
I'm sure you're you're familiarwith that um specific,
(13:46):
measurable, yada yada, yada.
Um so we uh get the goals naileddown and then we we uh start to
to brainstorm and think how canwe how can we get them to that
goal?
Um what level of investment arethey are they willing to be in
on it?
Um and then how how risky arethey willing to be?
And so um we we try to to pushthem and and um figure out how
(14:11):
can we take all the all thethings that they have, all the
assets they have, whether it'sit's uh their current brand, um
the the financial uh investmentthey can put into it, the people
that they have, uh theconnections and the community
they have, how can we leverageall these things to help them
get to that goal?
(15:27):
SPEAKER_02
I know you're very proud ofbeing local and where you are in
Tennessee and and doing that.
Um how how do you I mean I'mjust I'm gonna flip this around,
how do you market your businessto these small businesses?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (15:40):
So the the um we've done a couple of things over the
years.
One is we've really establisheda very clear identity for who we
are.
Um and we've got thatmountaineering or um outfitting
um mountain climbing theme,right?
So we do we help smallbusinesses uh conquer their
marketing mountains.
Um and so we we build thataround pretty much everything
(16:01):
that we do.
Um and people people know us,people know our logo, people
know our brand, it's uh we'reout there.
Um the one of the the uniquesituations I think that
marketing agencies are in isthat we we're like guitar
players, right?
Everybody knows a guitar player.
Um it some of them are are uhnot great, some of them are
(16:23):
amazing, um, but there's youknow, guitar players are diamond
dunces and so are marketingagencies.
And so um most of the time whensomeone is looking for some sort
of marketing, they're they'reprobably going to look, you
know, go to someone they know,go to a referral.
And so a lot of our marketing isgetting out, shaking hands.
We um we go to Chamber ofCommerces and um the networking
(16:47):
events that they have around ourarea um uh every every
opportunity we get.
I was actually um just goingthrough some of the the business
cards that I've collected overthe years and I have probably
close to like 2,000 um businesscards that I've just got um
compiled.
And I was just going through, umdecided to do this the other day
and just kind of go through andsay, all right, how many, how
(17:08):
many of these people thatweren't really good fits for our
business a while back, how muchhow many of those might be good
prospects now?
And so just kind of goingthrough and sifting through
them, but a lot of it's justit's those personal
relationships.
Um, but I think that's somethingthat is um probably a little
more unique to to the marketingagencies and a lot of other kind
of B2B service-based businesses.
(17:30):
Um and it's not a you know,every industry kind of has its
own uh recipe, I think.
S (17:36):
SPEAKER_02
and dear to Alan and I's heart,but if you think about it, you
just said it, uh everybody knowsa guitar player.
And you know, I just in fact mymy image right now is uh, hey,
I'm not gonna hire uh I'm notgonna hire the best rock band in
the world, I'm just gonna hire aband because I can't afford you
guys.
I'm gonna go with the cheaperalternative and watch these kids
(17:56):
just come, you know, just beatthe crap out of it, that'd be
hilarious.
But you mentioned that you donetworking and marketing, it's a
personal relationship, right?
I mean, in your world, you'vegot to make that connection uh
being personal, where somebodysays, Hey, Jeremy, it just
because I saw you on LinkedIndoesn't mean I'm gonna sign up
and spend five grand a monthwith you or 20 grand a month
(18:16):
with you.
It's that personal relationship.
You've got to make that.
I think in anything right now,especially with what's going on
with AI and everything, in anybusiness, I think you've got to
figure out your personalconnection that you got to be
able to make at some level withsomebody.
I how do you do how do you dothat even in the digital world?
SPEAKER_05 (18:36):
Um, yeah, so I think you marketing guy.
SPEAKER (18:39):
SPEAKER_03
I I think so it was kind of amushy question.
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
No, I want to know.
I was looking like how do I makethat personal connection?
I was looking for some freemarketing advice.
How do you make a personalconnection when you're
networking, or what are youtalking about?
No, when you're out there in thedigital world, like we're gonna
come back to marketing andnetworking in a minute, but how
do you make that personalconnection, those 2,000 business
cards digitally?
Because you can't do it onLinkedIn, right?
You just don't send me an emailand I'd say, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna
sign up.
How did digitally how do we makethat personal connection with
(19:05):
people now?
Because a lot of it is digital.
SPEAKER_03 (19:08):
Oh, he's saying he's going out and making them
personal.
Yeah, I know what he means withit.
I want to go, you get out ofyour basement and you go meet
them.
SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
Well, I you know I'm good with that, but uh, I can
only that's one at a time.
I want five five billion.
I'm looking for that fivebillion story, man.
Can I ask a different question?
SP (19:26):
SPEAKER_01
SPEAKER_05 (19:28):
I think it's a it's a legitimate question.
I I I want to answer that.
It's legitimate.
SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
That does not count as a good question.
Legit.
That means it's on life support.
I may have given it CPR.
So go ahead, Jeremy.
See do what you will with that.
SPEAKER_05 (19:42):
So I think digitally you can you can think of it in
in terms of your personal brandand your uh your business brand,
right?
And so um your personal brand,it it revolves around uh a lot
of personality.
Um and can you can you createthe posts that that you need to
create?
Can you create the content thatyou need to create to really
(20:03):
grab people's attention and makethat connection?
And so for me, that's that isnot my strong suit.
Like my you know, my personalbrand.
We were talking about thisearlier, uh getting getting a
personal brand going onLinkedIn.
Um, it's one of those kind of doas I say, not as I do.
Um as a as an introvert.
It's just it I overthink everypost I make on my personal
(20:25):
account.
Um for a brand, uh, for a for aand introverts don't like to
toot their own horn either.
SPEAKER_02 (20:31):
SPEAKER_02
You're not gonna you don't liketo get out there and be the
center of attention and telleverybody look at it, look at
me, look at me.
Yeah, which is why I don't thinkabout any of my posts.
I just say look at me.
Hey, quit looking at that.
Go out there and look, man.
Chris Lullaby on Instagram, gocheck it out, boys.
Girls, go check it out.
Yeah, that's right.
I don't think one thing aboutwhat I'm posting.
Facebook, check it out.
S (20:54):
SPEAKER_05
So um, yeah, but for yourbusiness, for your business
building those thoseconnections, it's really it's
about getting just getting outthere, um, posting as much as
you can to get in front of folksand um just be familiar, right?
So one of the things that we welike to leverage and talk about
whenever we're working with withclients is just really how the
(21:16):
human brain works and how peoplebuy, the psychological reasons
people buy.
Most of the time they'recompletely irrational.
But one of the things thataffects who we buy from is how
familiar, how familiar we arewith them.
So if people see you a lot onsocial media, um, your brand or
you personally, they're gonna befamiliar with you and
(21:37):
consequently, they're going totrust you more.
They don't have a reason fortrusting you more, they just
trust you more because they'veseen you more, um, unless you've
given them some reason not to.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
The trusted toolbox.
Thank you, Alan.
Um, and Alan's gonna start themore trusted toolbox.
Alan, that's the business Alan'sgonna start is the more trusted
toolbox.
Um, and that's a side joke ofdeath.
Of death, more trusted toolboxof death.
That's awesome.
Awesome, Jeremy.
All right, Jeremy.
So um you're I that's what Iwould say.
It's hard to make that personal,and that's what you're talking
(22:11):
about is you gotta find thosechannels.
One of the things I'd heard fromsomebody is pick one and do it
really well, and I heard thatyears ago.
I think I I I I'm gonna fightback on that one now.
I wonder if now you have to dodifferent channels and be out
there and see which one's gonnawork.
SPEAKER_03 (22:26):
What do you think?
Can I before he answers that?
Oh, please.
Let's ask, no, no, no.
I think you're on to something.
Okay, it's a legitimatequestion, Chris.
Thank you.
Well, I got another life supportquestion.
But what I want to ask is okay,so if you're working with a
major corporation, yeah, theyhave their ad budget, and you
can't, you know, your job is tojust get the account away from
(22:49):
somebody else.
But when you're working with uhan entrepreneur and maybe, you
know, they've been trying to doit on their own, and one of the
first things you said, you know,you want their goals, but you
also have to find out what theirbudget is, they don't know what
their budget is.
Or they're scared to give youthe right number, or the number
they give you is probably, Idon't know.
They're they could go two ways.
(23:10):
One is maybe they throw out abigger number because they don't
want to be embarrassed, or theythrow out a tiny number because
they don't want you to waste it.
How do you how do you getsomebody to the right number?
Because if you don't put enoughinto it, it's useless, right?
SPEAKER_05 (23:26):
And I think that's just an honest conversation we
have with them in in when welook at the goals.
If they say, you know, here'sour here's our goal way up here,
and here's our budget, then thenwe've got to we've got to close
that gap somehow.
We either got to say, all right,well, you've got to be making a
whole lot of cold calls, youknow, in your spare time to get
there, or um you you eitherlower the goals or you raise the
(23:48):
like there's there's gotta besome honest conversation of what
can you know, if if this is yourreal budget, what can you really
do with that?
What can you expect?
And so um a lot of our job is ismanaging those expectations of
of if we're gonna put this muchenergy and effort into
something, what can you rreasonably expect to get out of
that?
(24:08):
All right, I gotta go back to myoriginal question.
SPEA (24:10):
SPEAKER_03
with that because you're talkingabout focusing on one channel
versus a a broad stroke, right?
That that's gonna have a lot todo with the budget.
SPEAKE (24:20):
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that's the question.
SPEAKER_05 (24:22):
I mean Yeah, so so I think when when social media can
uh platforms are first comingout, that statement and that
philosophy was was a lot moretrue than it is today.
Um I think people you havedifferent audiences on them, and
uh so your audience on LinkedInmight be different than than who
(24:43):
they are on Facebook.
But um with the the types ofcontent and the and the things
that you post, there's nothingmagical about LinkedIn that says
you only can post this type ofcontent and only this type of
content will work on LinkedIn oror even on on Facebook.
There's nothing magical aboutthat platform that only says
this is what is this is whatworks.
(25:05):
If you're engaging andinteresting on either of them,
it's gonna work, right?
Um, but you've just got to findout what what does what does
your audience like?
Um, and that's not the same.
That's not something you canformalize for every business or
even every business in anindustry.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
Yeah, no, I but to Alan's now now.
I'll come back to Alan's point.
I think yeah, the question, ifJeremy, if I was you and you
came and talked to me, you'relike, Chris, if I'm your buddy
at the bar after playing aroundto golf, what do you tell me
your advertising budget is?
Because I've done this, and uh,I will tell you, um, similar to
my golf game, I will tell youit's overinflated.
(25:41):
But if I came back and you cameto me and said, Hey, I want to
take your money, how much am Igonna give you?
I'm gonna go back and say, Um,by the way, I don't know if you
guys saw me play golf, but I'mreally bad at it, you know,
horrible.
So I'm only gonna give you athousand dollars, um, even
though I said my budget wasgonna be thirty thousand a
month.
Um, I think that's aninteresting conversation.
You know, hey, which what do youtell your buddies at the at the
(26:04):
bar after golf?
And what do you want to tell me?
You want to tell me zero, andyou want to tell them, uh man, I
could stroke a hundred grandevery day.
Let's go.
I think that's yeah, you talkabout honest conversations, but
it doesn't start with honesty,especially when you're talking
to me.
I mean, no, seriously.
I mean, I talk to a lot ofbusiness owners.
I think um we have one publicpersona and one of the I'm the
(26:26):
imposter persona, and it's hardfor us to get there.
So, how do you get them throughthat?
How do you start to figure outthat these guys will have that
honest dialogue with you?
S (26:35):
SPEAKER_05
what are they willing to put ona check?
Um, right?
That's where that's you don'treally get much more honest than
that.
Like, what can what can you cuta check for?
SPEAKER_03 (26:47):
And so Well, and my guess is the answer is hey, if
it works, I'll put as much moneyas I have in it, but they're
afraid it's not going to work.
Yes, yeah.
So it's like how much are youwilling to gamble, Chris?
Like when you go to Vegas,what's your number?
SPEA (27:04):
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
Uh, there's the answer I tell mywife, and there's the answer I
tell my buddies, and it'ssomewhere in the middle.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Ten grand, big boy, big daddy's coming in strong.
SPE (27:15):
SPEAKER_02
Well, I'm at a thousand.
I'm gonna thousand.
I'm not gonna spend any morethan a thousand.
I mean, that's it.
When I go there, I'm I'm onlygonna lose a thousand dollars.
Okay, and so by the way, it'ssomewhere in the middle, which
we would have said.
And for that, you can emailChris at the trusted toolbox to
find out what the real numberis, and I'll let you know.
But I not unless you email me.
And if you email me and say,Chris, what is that number?
(27:36):
I'll I'll tell you what it is.
SPEAKER_05 (27:39):
But I think part of it is that's free.
Part of it is just gettingpeople to think in a in a way
that they may have not havethought of it before.
Because a lot of people that wesee come in, they're they're
spending money, they don'treally even have a good idea of
what all they're spending theirmarketing dollars on or how to
measure it.
And so having them having themsit down and think, all right,
(28:01):
if I spend this much, this iswhat I can expect out of it.
It's it's uh and in animmeasurable way.
Um it's it's maybe a new way ofthinking.
And so sometimes it takes alittle people a little bit to
kind of start wrapping theirmind around, all right, if this
is where I want to be, thenmaybe I do need to to invest
more in it to get there.
(28:22):
Um, but then going back to therelationship side, it is it's a
it's a lot of building of trustand and saying we're we know
what we're doing, right?
We've done it, we've done it forfor um all these clients over
here.
We know what we're doing.
You can trust us.
Is it guaranteed?
No, by no mean, by no means isanything that we do guaranteed,
(28:42):
right?
But we sometimes we try torelate it back to their
business.
Like if you were a mechanic andand I said, All right, I'm
getting my I'll I'll come andget this stuff fixed.
Can you guarantee me that my carwon't break down in in the next
year?
No, no, but nobody's nobody'sgonna give that guarantee,
right?
Because there's just so many umthings that are that are uh uh
variables at play.
SPEAKE (29:04):
SPEAKER_02
You actually hit on uh somethingthat I think is probably
disrupting your industry, andthat's attribution.
How can you get the ROI when youdon't know where it came from?
Because um, when I first startedin 2008, I was told you have to
be in the phone book.
And I was like, this the factthat's probably one of the top
five smartest things I've everdone.
(29:25):
Um, and that was I didn't do thephone book, um, but I did do
print advertising becauseeverybody says no, you got to be
in the valve packs, you'll bethe money mailers.
Oh my god, and this is allbefore Google was a thing.
I mean, yeah, I mean, but it'shappening so so here comes AI,
it's another disruptor, right?
So attribution's got to be sohard for you to prove to
somebody about what to do.
So, how do you take them throughthat?
Because there, I mean, hey, youcan put up 500 billboards, or
(29:47):
you know, in a smaller town, youcan put up 10 billboards.
Okay, great.
It's still a chunk of change,bro.
And that's not making the phonering.
So how do you take them throughthat transactional versus
relational advertising?
SP (29:59):
SPEAKER_05
measure what what we're doing,and and to your point,
attribution is um becoming lessand less reliable um for
multiple reasons.
Um one I partly is because theveil is kind of getting pulled
back on all of this, like thisdata that's um we've been sold
(30:21):
uh as as uh really you know,this way to track people and and
do all these things and measureeverything.
A lot of that was kind of a umum we got scammed a little bit
on that.
Um and so Can you name a namerealize it?
Who's Canvas?
Go ahead and name a name.
I'll tell you.
(30:42):
Google, Google, it was you.
Yeah, Google.
SPE (30:45):
SPEAKER_03
Well, I'll say that by the waywhat happened.
SPEAKER_05 (30:47):
Well, one of one of the one of the things that we're
dealing with right now, um, andever since it started happening
was uh like Google's performancemax campaigns, right?
So they'll they'll grabconversions from any place that
they can grab a conversion, butthey didn't they didn't give
that conversion.
Like, but they'll they'll saythey did because they want your
money and they want to say, hey,this is this is very valuable
(31:08):
and we're converting a lot ofpeople.
Like they maybe saw you knowthat they maybe saw a display ad
that was just like the verybottom of their telephone screen
and and then went and bought itwhen they were going to buy it
anyways.
So anyways, that sort of stuffis kind of what we're what we're
combating and and and trying toto work around these days.
(31:29):
But there's other ways tomeasure, right?
At the end of the day, um whatwe want to see is the bottom
line is like, all right, are areyou making more money than you
were before you started workingwith us?
And that requires sometransparency on on our client
side of of you know we need tosee we need to see sales
numbers.
We need to see to see if are wegoing in the right direction you
(31:50):
know on the days that we did XYZdid that help or did that did
that uh hurt?
And so the more the moretransparency we can have in that
conversation the better becauseit helps us helps inform what
we're doing.
And so other ways of measuringjust your your brand awareness.
So any any sort of brandawareness marketing you're doing
(32:12):
from billboards to um you knowbroad you know streaming ads,
that sort of stuff um it reallyis hard to measure all right is
this is this doing what it needsto do.
And so one of the ways wemeasure that is just seeing how
how many times are peoplesearching for you by name,
right?
Let's start before you beforeyou started doing all these
(32:32):
things um and get a baseline ofof how often people search for
your business by name.
And then you know a few monthsafter how often are people going
to Google and searching for youknow XYZ HVAC company or XYZ
Plumbing Company by name and andthe we've always talked about
the funnel like the sales funnelfrom you know this kind of this
uh from the side angle reallywhere you can see the wider top
(32:56):
at the um at the top and the thenarrow at the bottom what I like
to to show people is kind offrom the top down you've got
three concentric circles rightso you got the big the big outer
circle is your brand awarenessyou got a middle circle which is
that mid funnel decision makingconsideration phase and you got
that that small circle right inthe middle that is your lower
(33:16):
funnel um and everybody'sfighting over that small that
small center circle right likeyou go HVAC companies plumbers
they're paying$20$30 a click umfighting over that that little
circle right there.
And what a lot of them areleaving um uh for anybody to
grab is that big circle if youcan grab people out here if you
(33:40):
can be that that company thatthey know by name that they're
whistling the jingle to and thatthey're they're talking about if
you can be that company outhere, you've already won them by
the time they're here becauseyou know what they're not going
and searching for you know HVACKnoxville they're going to
searching for you by name um oreven if they're not searching
for you by name when they seeyour name pop up they say oh hey
(34:01):
I recognize that guy and theyclick on that.
SPEAKER_03 (34:03):
And so it's hard to get new new clients to go for an
awareness budget though becausethey want call to action.
S (34:11):
SPEAKER_02
I I a hundred percent but I Ithink what Jeremy's talking
about is if if you're justbeginning I I need that phone to
ring I need that form to befilled out I need that website
form.
SPEAKER_05 (34:23):
I mean you've got to get to me because I need money
now because revenue is king wellcash is king revenue is queen
you know I've said that a lot umbut I I but Jeremy's talking
about something I just uh wejust talked about a couple weeks
ago where I'm seeing a changeand I'm I'm gonna ask you this
question is that namerecognition brand recognition is
(34:45):
more important today than itused to be because of
familiarity and awareness andthe ability to get out there and
be omnipresent um what do youthink about that because that's
a lot of money to go out thereand spend on uh on that and not
get that immediate return um yesso uh so I I would say you you
you need to have is someinvestment at every level of the
(35:07):
funnel right um that's idealright if you're if your budget
is is such that you can put somelower some mid some some brand
um that's the ideal place to bewhen you're first starting out
though you uh like you saidyou're you're you're fighting
over that that center circlebecause you don't have you don't
have the reputation you don'thave the the budget to really
(35:30):
fight in this bigger arena outhere and so that we we walk um a
lot of our smaller clientsthrough uh what we call climb
club um and it is uh reallybuilt for businesses that are in
that two million dollar a yearand less range where you you've
got you've got to put in somehustle right you've got to put
in some blood sweat and tears inyour marketing yourself because
(35:52):
at that level you really don'thave a budget that makes sense
to go pay a marketing agency todo the things for you.
So you've got to be you've gotto be out there shaking hands.
You've got to be out thereknocking on doors do getting
your name out there.
SPEAKER_02 (36:05):
But I what we try to emphasize is all of that is a
lot easier if you have a verystrong distinctive brand right
if you're going out there as hiI'm uh you know Jeremy Leduc's
insurance company it's the mostforgettable thing in the world
and you are it's you're gonnait's gonna be an uphill battle
for you every step of the way umbut if you go out there with a
(36:28):
with a distinct name somethingthat a a theme a mascot if you
if you can have a mascot get adamn mascot like the the saying
is fur fur sells and it does andso you don't have a mascot I
don't have a mascot what wouldyour mascot be I don't know I
was thinking I just got a greatinsurance tagline because I got
a great friend who's aninsurance we've had him on
(36:49):
Brusty Clifton and I'm like heyinsurance you're gonna die
anyway we may have we may haveto workshop that a little bit
what is my mascot oh my god Ineed a mascot I I had turbo uh
because I stole my uh friend'sdog actually I babysat for a uh
a dog sat for a weekend becauseum um but you're right uh you
(37:11):
know what they do sell that uhthey're they're memorable
they're memorable stupid lizardI'm gonna go I'm gonna go
armadillo I think that'd begreat roach to get five roach
armadillo armadillos because wehammered it doesn't actually get
in a house it doesn't actuallyhave to have fur it just needs
(37:32):
to be it needs to have eyes anda smile I think so armadillo
could work I mean cartoon onesdo squirrel mascot ones would be
more appropriate actually I lovesquirrels because they beat up
houses they eat up houses and wego fix them after they're done
and you got the same attentionspan and what yeah okay all
right your tagline could be likeyou're you're gonna go nuts for
(37:52):
us oh I got freebie JeremyLeDuc's insurance aid no it's
not it's Jeremy LeDuc's climbclub climb club kids that one I
love that phrase too becauseyou're right in the beginning if
you would have came to me orAlan when we first starting a
business and said hey I need youguys to uh invest in the upper
end of the funnel we would havesaid hey Jeremy um you need to
(38:13):
invest and get into that doorand uh we'll see you tomorrow
yeah goodbye because I need thatphone to ring you're like dude I
can't make the phone ring backin the day because we didn't
have the internet I mean it wasthere but it wasn't there and we
had to have that phone to ringbecause if I if I if you ain't
coming in man I can't spendmoney on sponsoring kids' events
(38:33):
or sponsoring golf events like Ido or or doing the network but
you talked about it in thebeginning you got to hustle we
talked about networking that'show we made that smaller ring
work.
Yeah and I what a cool piece ofadvice I I like that instead of
I mean that tells me you knowJeremy's not just coming for my
money you know he uh heunderstands where I am and what
I need to do and and you guysboth uh let's talk about this so
(38:57):
you're both introverts and Iknow I met Alan in networking
and I never knew he wasintroverted um I'm a gregarious
introvert so and Jeremy I'm I'mI force myself to be an
extrovert when I need to soyou're a forced you're a forced
networker you're a forcedintrovert yeah and it wears you
guys out he says I'm exhaustedat the end of those I said dude
I can barely go to sleep thatnight after a networking event
(39:19):
because I'm so pumped up becausefor me I get energy from it I
know for you guys you have togive but you just talked about
it this might not be yourcomfort zone but if you don't
want to spend the big bucks thisis the small things to get to
that smaller circle and we'reall doing this on the YouTube.
SPEAKER_05 (39:33):
You can see it small circle medium circle big circle
so you want to save some moneygo out there and do the
networking and if you can't finda sales guy who can but nobody
tells you it's like it's forit's free it's free right it
just takes your time you just gospend 30 minutes or an hour
shaking hands um and the bestadvice that I can give to
someone if you're if you feelvery awkward and you really hate
(39:55):
those things the good news ismost of the other people at
those things do too.
And so if if all you have to dois go just work up the courage
to shake somebody's hand andstart asking them questions.
The minute you start asking themquestions about themselves and
about their business you'veyou've got some rapport with
them and you've won a friend.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
And so um it's a and also it kind of takes the
attention off of you and and andlets you um uh make a connection
that is a great point because asan introvert and uh uh Alan's a
curious introvert here's why Iliked him so much he kept asking
questions about me and I love toanswer questions about me and
(40:35):
that's why we hit it off but noseriously enough about me let's
talk about me thank you uh Alanplease I'm talking but I think
that's a great way to look atthis when you go to these
networking events guys if youjust start asking questions to
people and talk I'll I'll goback to yeah you're not selling
you're not selling it no I wasat a Johns Creek uh chamber
(40:55):
event what years ago and Alanwas there too and this guy came
out to me and all he did wastalk about himself I mean I
didn't get a word out and I lovetalking about me yeah and I just
listened to him and I was likedude this guy doesn't even know
who I was he I gave him my cardhe turned out to be one of my
biggest supporters tellingeverybody how great my company
was he didn't know one thing allI did was listen to him he
(41:18):
didn't even know what I did Imean I thought he didn't but he
did and next thing you knowthey're like oh no he said call
no no bob said call Bob said andI was like where'd this guy come
from I'm like I I didn't even Iwasn't thinking you were going
there with that story I thoughtwe were going leg humpers no
this guy these guys are leghumpers oh yeah but but I
thought I all I did was sitthere and just listen and listen
and listen and he told everybodyhow great of a guy I was but to
(41:41):
networking on the other side ifyou're if you're an introvert
and that's what I've seen is thepeople who overcompensate are
the leg humpers.
So I don't know how to network.
S (41:50):
SPEAKER_03
people so when I get there Icome up and I just grab you and
I go hey Jeremy um I have thebest uh remodeling company and
handyman company in the worldand you know I'd love to work in
your house and what can I workin your house and you're like
dude just get away from me referme to three of your friends and
uh yeah get away from my leg youfurry friend and so I'm not our
(42:14):
mascot by the way but I am furryuh that I mean not up here in
the head just I hope to say Itold you about the whole uh
brand awareness advertising dealat Enterprise didn't I no yeah
it was the first time soEnterprise when I started was
the fourth largest rental carcompany in North America and
nobody knew about who they wereand so suddenly uh and I was at
(42:36):
middle management at that pointthey uh they had a big meeting
and we're gonna start an adcampaign which we were all
excited about and then we seethe commercial and it's the rap
car and it's the hey I'm at theshop can you pick us up zero
call to action zero discountzero anything and we all looked
at each other and we're likewhat is going on you're spending
what and they that's when theyexplained to us the brand
(42:58):
awareness because when peoplewere making decisions and they
saw the list of names ofcompanies to call and they saw
our name they didn't even seeit.
And so it was a it was a matterof a couple of years to where
the focus groups would show thatwhen they were given that same
list of names they werepredisposed to calling us as a
(43:21):
result of those years ofadvertising whereas before they
wouldn't even consider it theywould have gone with Hertz or
Avis or anybody that they theyknew of so it I mean but that's
working with corporate budgets.
Not and you know like Chris issaying you know you start your
own shop you you don't feel likeyou have the time to do it.
No.
SPEAKER_05 (43:40):
But is there a way to kind of do that at the same
time while you're having call toaction stuff I well I I think
it's it's one of those thingswhere you having a call to
action on on something on abillboard or whatever it doesn't
really do you any good.
Nobody's driving down the roadthinking oh hey I'm I need to
call the plumber right now rightthey're they're thinking I need
to call the plumber when they'rewhen their uh sink is is pouring
(44:03):
water out from under it.
Um so um though those utilizingcall to actions when you should
just be using from for brand iskind of a waste I believe
because you could do some reallycreative advertising at the end
of that um at the end of thatcommercial rather than having
you know 10 seconds of yourphone number put up there.
(44:24):
So um there there are some youknow I'm I'm and I'm I'm being
very generalized with that butum I think there are some times
when that makes sense but uh ifyou're gonna do brand awareness
do brand awareness do somethingthat's memorable and that people
will bring call to mind whenthey need you yeah all jokes
(44:44):
aside if we talked about liquiddeath and we and then we kept
going on with that death theme.
SPEA (44:48):
SPEAKER_02
I mean and you can do thatwithout a marketing agency and
then when you get together andstart talking with somebody like
a Jeremy you know expand yourmind a little bit and then open
up and have an honest dialoguewith them as opposed to to not
doing it I think that's whatwe're missing and that's what we
need to do.
And I know we're coming up onthe end Jeremy so how does
everybody find you so we canclimb up that mountain we're
(45:10):
gonna go to climb camp one.
SPEAKER_05 (45:11):
Yep actually Chris is on the dad jokes.
Yeah it's it's it's a base campyeah we get we start at we start
at base camp oh base camp uhyeah yeah do we eat there at
base camp yeah Chris just wantsto get a helicopter to the top
yeah that's that's can we justuh helicopter up to my versus if
you've got if you've got thebudget we can take you there
yeah now we're talking we'll putyou on the helicopter chris at
(45:32):
the trusted toolbox.com give mesome budget so I can take the
helicopter up on your breast ifthey uh uh give people two two
or actually three ways to tokind of um find out more um epic
nine uh our agency if if ifyou're if you're looking to do
any sort of branding strategy umuh campaigns um all that sort of
(45:55):
stuff epic nine dot com love towork with you um if you are kind
of in that that bootstrap modeor you're you're still kind of
getting things off the groundand and you got more hustle than
budget um right now um then thetheclimclub.com is a is a great
place to start and so we'vebuilt out a uh uh suite of uh
(46:15):
packages of of products andservices built for um folks in
that position um and yeah andthen also uh the the book wrote
a book about being a a um localentrepreneur in a in a uh you
know mid-size America town whatdoes it take to kind of DIY your
marketing and so it's a kind ofa narrative uh business book um
(46:38):
where you follow the story of aof a uh small main street
retailer that is um learning howto to do her own marketing and
and at the same time you get alot of you get a lot of
practical nuts and bolts ummarketing give me the title uh
climb um so uh you can go totheclim dot guide or you can
(47:00):
find it on uh uh bookshop.org oramazon guys i know a couple of
you guys are listening this isright up your alley because uh
i've talked to a lot of homeservice providers but what he's
talking about is exactly whati've talked to um at least six
of you about uh and this is agreat one so there's there's an
easy read right there i'm sureit's an easy read for all of us
(47:21):
right it's not it's not onepiece right you're right yeah no
i i i think it's i hope it'seasy yeah good so you got that
you got the bootstrappers let'sgo the climb and then if you're
ready to rock and roll and takeyour business from a million to
a billion or five billion likeliquid death you go to jerry
milled jeremy leduke's epic ninedot com i love this stuff man
this has been a greatconversation alan yep it's been
(47:44):
fun you got you guys are fungood all right it's gonna be
more fun we're gonna put lots oflegitimate questions thank you
for the life support did Chrisrevive the patient oh I think we
lost him sir all right now we'rechecking to see if you uh
listened to our or read ouremail what are the final four
questions what is a book you'drecommend that's not yours to
(48:06):
our audience uh by if you'releading a team of any sort
Patricki's five dysfunctions ofa team um one of the just the
best leadership books that isjust great for for any sort of
um team environment all rightwhat is the favorite feature of
your home hang on sorry I I lostyou can you hear me yeah I can
(48:30):
hear you can you hear mefavorite feature of your home
it's better be your wi-fi yougot me yeah yeah I can hear you
yeah I didn't hear the secondquestion favorite feature of
your home oh favorite feature ofthe home um uh oh goodness
that's that's so tough I wouldsay it's it's the uh the little
(48:53):
outside uh patio area that wegot um love love sitting out
there in the summer becauseyou're in Tennessee got
beautiful weather a lot of timesI mean that's why everybody's
moving there all right we havenot talked about customer
service talking about how to getcustomers but and we're kind of
crazy about our uh customerwe're kind of customer service
(49:13):
freaks oh my god yes what's acustomer service pet peeve of
yours when you're out there andyou're the customer um the the
over empathy uh you know youknow you know talking about that
that uh oh we under weunderstand this is such a this
we hate that you are goingthrough this and this is a this
is a we know this is a uh uh adisappointment to you just kind
(49:36):
of that that just all right justlay lay off a little bit
insincere I'll tell you what uhAI is doing that right now we're
uh we're implementing an AIagent this and we're trying to
tone it back down I'm likepeople do not want to hear that
they do not want to hear overand over and over oh I'm so
sorry to hear that tell me moreoh I'm so sorry to hear so
here's your email and they'regiving you the wrong email
(49:58):
address so we're we're dialingour AI back back a little bit
that isn't that funny yeah likeyeah is there anything else I
can help you with um yeah thefirst fucking thing I called you
about yeah oh that's awesome allright last thing so I'm in
construction I love doing it butum I tell you what I've had a
lot of DIY nightmares I want tohear a DIY nightmare of yours
(50:20):
because of construction of shityeah not not a construct or
something you did and I'm sayinglook at these fingers people
look at them online you guysdon't see them all but there's
been a lot of nails put that onein the middle is massive that is
bad that was uh that was a handclamp um this one well actually
that one was football but that'sdifferent for I so so i've I've
(50:41):
only I've only owned old homeslike my first my first house was
built in 1937 the house we're innow is 54 so there's plenty of
things to do uh in in the housesI've been in and um I I've
screwed them all up I'm I I'veI'm I'm horrible I'd have to I
have to redo it right I'll I'llwatch I'll watch the YouTube
(51:04):
videos and then I'll I'll gothrough and I'll try to follow
them all and then something goeswrong.
I would say my my worst DIY um Ican tell my funniest I'll tell
you my funniest DIY I'm in forfunny all right so um I was
refinishing the floors in my inmy first house and uh sanded
them all down got got all thatdone um and was uh I didn't put
(51:27):
any stain on it I was just gonnaput the the uh finish the
polyurethane finish on it and soI was I was working late it was
like one in the morning and I Iwas you know with a brush
painting painting these floorsand I started having the
weirdest thoughts man I was mymind was going places that I
hadn't I had never been beforeright yeah and so I was I was
(51:51):
like what and I I started Istarted just feeling so weird
and I'm like why why why do Ifeel high like why am I what's
going on I realized like I'd I'dforgot to to get the uh I was in
the hallway and so there wasreally no circulation and and so
um I was high on polyurethanefumes um and it took me it took
(52:12):
me a while of fresh air and justlaying down to to get over that
that is amazing I love thatstory oh my god I've been high
on fumes before too literally Imean I'm not even talking I mean
you're like whoo we're closed inin a room and I forgot that we
had plastic off the room so theclients couldn't smell it and we
were like we doggy heyeverything looks so green all of
(52:32):
a sudden yeah man I love thisJerry Milleduc there you go Epic
nine the climb club or go checkout his book this has been an
epic conversation we've had funwe got to get going get up that
mountaintop let's make it gohappen cheers everybody we gotta
go thanks you guys thank you forlistening to this episode of the
Small Business Departmentremember your positive attitude
(52:55):
will help you achieve thathigher altitude you're looking
for in the wild world smallbusiness understanding until
next time make it a great day
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