Jasmine Flowers on Sowing Seeds of Strength: Leaving a Toxic Marriage, Healing from Childhood Trauma and Blossoming in Sobriety

Episode Transcript
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the-sober-butterfly_18_0 (00:02):
Hello.
Hello my beautiful butterfliesand welcome back to The Sober
Butterfly.
I'm your host, Nadine Mulvina,and.
Since March is Women's HistoryMonth, I wanted to kick things
off with a woman whose story isnothing short of powerful.
Today I am truly honored tointroduce Jasmine Flowers.
This is a woman who embodiesresilience, self-discovery, and

(00:25):
true transformation.
Now.
From the outside, it seemed likeshe had it all.
She was married to aprofessional athlete.
She was raising beautifuldaughters and living a picture
perfect life, but behind closeddoors.
She was struggling withalcoholism, unresolved trauma,
and an abusive relationship.
But before we dive in, I want toissue a quick wellness trigger

(00:50):
warning.
This episode covers serious yetimportant topics including
domestic abuse, sexual trauma,and suicidal ideation.
If any of these topics aredifficult for you, please take
care of yourself as you listen.
Through therapy and treatment,Jasmine gained clarity.

(01:10):
She realized that not only wasalcohol keeping her stuck, but
so was the toxic marriage shewas in.
So ultimately that realizationgave her the courage to finally
leave, leave her marriage.
Rebuild her life and reclaim hersense of self.
In this episode, we also getinto how Jasmine navigated
sobriety.
Her healing process andco-parenting post-divorce.

(01:34):
We also discuss how trauma fromchildhood can easily follow you
into adulthood, shaping yourrelationship with others, and
also your relationship self.
What struck me, I think, themost about our conversation was
just how honest and raw Jasmineis.
There were moments that gave mechills, moments that made me
laugh, and moments that broughttears to my eyes.

(01:56):
I related so much to Jasmine'svulnerability and her strength,
and I hope her journey inspiresyou as much as it did me.
Be sure to listen to the fullepisode, and if you want to
watch our conversation, thevideo is also available on
YouTube.
All right, let's get into it.

Nadine - The Sober But (02:16):
Jasmine, I'm so excited that you're here.
Welcome to the Sober Butterfly.
How are you?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2 (02:20):
Yes.
Thank you.
I am so great and really excitedto be here too and just like
have this conversation with youand I love meeting more like
women in recovery and just beingin a space where we can really
express what the experience islike sometimes past, present,
and future.
I'm kind of ideas and thoughts,so grateful, glad.

Nadine - The Sober Butterfl (02:41):
I'm grateful to have you here and
I'm glad that you're here.
So before we go deep, because Iwant to hear all about the
nuances and the heart of yourstory, I would love to open and
kind of break the ice with somequick rapid fire questions.
Is that cool?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (02:55):
yeah.

Nadine - The Sober But (02:57):
Jasmine, if you had to describe yourself
in three words, what would theybe?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2 (03:03):
Ooh.
I would say one of the firstwords is thoughtful

the-sober-butterfly_ (03:06):
Beautiful,

squadcaster-7i30_2_ (03:07):
determined.
And empathetic.

the-sober-butterfly (03:12):
thoughtful, determined, and empathetic.
All amazing adjectives and greatthings to be.
I would love to know from you,if you could have dinner with
any sober celebrity, who wouldit be?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (03:25):
Oh, man.
Okay.
I'm not, not gonna tell anylies.
I don't know off the top of myhead.
A lot of sober celebrities, so.
Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02- (03:34):
Love.
Then just open it up to anyone.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (03:37):
Oh, okay.
So if we're opening it up toanyone, I would have to, oh,
Glennon Doyle.
Forget

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-0 (03:43):
Ooh.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (03:43):
do have a Celebr.
I don't know if we consider hera celebrity, if she considers
herself a celebrity, butthousand percent.
Yes, the author, I think thatshe is just a, oh my, such a raw
like exquisite human who livesso richly in her body and in her
mind and her spirit.
And I have so much respect andadmiration for that.

(04:04):
Yeah, so she would definitely bemy person.
I, I'm like famous if she'sabsolutely famous, but I dunno
if she considers herself acelebrity, but definitely her.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2 (04:11):
I think that's an amazing answer.
And she wrote Untamed, right?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2 (04:16):
yes, yes,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03- (04:17):
So if you're listening at home,
make sure you purchase if youhaven't read already, untamed by
Glen and Dole.

absolutely.

answer.
And then one more question foryou getting to know Jasmine.
What's one thing you can do nowthat drunk you never could?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (04:35):
Oh my, the list is quite long, but
drunk me could never, ever.
Share in a room full of peopledrunk me would never have, I was
such a mute.
I was so like, be seen, notheard because I just, I never
really wanted, I, I didn't say Inever wanted to, I always wanted

(04:55):
to take up some sort of spaceand be, you know, be notable
like everybody else wants to beheard and seen in one capacity
or another.
But I, sober me has so muchcourage,

I love that.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (05:07):
So, yeah, drunk me would've never, I
wouldn't be doing this,

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (05:12):
you know, so.

I can resonate with that.
I've always been like someonewho overshared, but like not
with intention.
Like I just sort of said thingsfor the sake of holding space or
speaking, but now I'm verythoughtful.
am I adding value?
Like that's how I see thingsnow.
So I, I resonate with that.
So thank you for sharing that.
And speaking of speaking up, Iwould love to hear a little bit

(05:39):
more about your story.
So, tell us more about earlydays.
Like what was life like for you,Jasmine?
Even going back to likechildhood, I always like to
start from the beginning.
What influence, if any, didalcohol play in your early
upbringing or those earlymoments of life?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (05:58):
Yeah.
So I mean, I come from a familyof.
Alcoholics, right?
Not my whole family, but thereare direct lineage.
My grandfather, my father, andfor me at 14 I discovered
alcohol.
So I had a history of like, mydad was incredibly violent
towards my mom.
So my mom had a lot of wombtrauma.
She lived in a lot of anxietyand a lot of fear.

(06:19):
And for years that was, youknow, my brothers and I, that
was our lives.
And so life went on.
Then I had a stepdad and thatjust, things kept hitting the
fan, right?
And when I turned 14 I was like,oh, sex and alcohol make things
feel better.
Like I used to write, I used tolove to write.
I mean, I would, I would gooutside and I would, I also used
to like to break things.
I would take coffee mugs.
I would break them in this likepark area, and I would write

(06:40):
poems and I mean like endlessriding.
And that was my escape beforealcohol and.
Boys or sex, you know?
But then when I discovered at14, I mean, I was a blackout
drinker from the get go.
Like,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03 (06:53):
never, I, I kind of stayed with that
binge drinking habit because,you know, at 14 it wasn't easy
to drink daily.
So that never occurred.
And then as I grew up, thinkthat I equated, I never knew
anything about like, programs tohelp you live in recovery, even
though my dad and grandfatherand stepdad were alcoholics.
I never knew anything about anyprograms that were offered.
So I always thought that like,alcoholics look like them.

(07:15):
Alcoholics look like the menalcoholic, looks like the dead
beat dad alcohol.
And I just did not equate myselfto that because I was this young
woman and I didn't drink everyday.
I drank like on the weekendswhen I would party, which at 20
years old, everybody's doingthat,

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (07:30):
But I was a habitual blackout.
I put myself in harm's way manya times and.
would say to myself, oh, I'm so,you know, brave and I would like
have this thought, but I wasjust reckless.
I didn't care if I lived or diedfrom, think the traumatic things
that I experienced there was,you know, domestic violence,
there was sexual abuse, therewas abandonment.
There was a lot happening in my.
World as a young human and bigfeelings.

(07:54):
I'm a big feeler, and I thinkit's one of my biggest gifts and
also probably one of my biggestcurses because again, feeling
everything so deeply all thetime means that I also feel
fear, rage, anger, disgust,sadness, grief.
Like I feel all of thesefeelings I didn't know what to
do with all of them.
There was nobody saying like,Hey, you had this experience.
It does hurt and it should hurt,and you shouldn't have to feel

(08:14):
that.
And I had, you know, I remember.
I was so angry and mean to mydad when he would call from
prison because I wanted him sobadly in my life.
But I thought if I'm mean tohim, this would be how he'll
like come around again if Ilike, make him

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (08:27):
And so much of my behavior was me
trying to find ways to expressmyself without putting myself in
vulnerable positions.
So I would get drunk so I couldbe like, hmm, so I could, so I
could have all my feelings andthen move through them.

the-sober-butterfl (08:41):
Interesting.
I can relate to parts of yourstory.
I also, from a young age, was ablackout drinker.
I was chasing something.
I was deeply sensitive, and Ithink alcohol provided a means
for me to unleash some feelingsthat I was bearing, essentially.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-0 (09:03):
Mm-hmm.

But usually when they came out.
It was in a destructive way thatwas detrimental to me and my
wellbeing.
So.
I really wanna commend you forsharing that, and I feel like if
anyone at home can resonate withthat, that is like the beauty of
this.
So at what point, you know youmentioned too, because I also

(09:25):
can resonate with sex as well asalcohol.
Like that combination as being away to connect or feel like
you're connecting with people.
So can you give us a little bitmore detail around like.
in terms of sex or in terms ofbeing able to unlock or unleash
something within yourself, likehow did that come to life for

(09:45):
you?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025 (09:46):
I think that I was deeply
insecure, right?
So I also had like a lot of bodydysmorphia.
Again, there was a lot of sexualtrauma in my young life, which
aside from, you know, living ina neighborhood where people
didn't look like me, I just, I,I felt fat all the time.
I felt disgusting all the time.
So I.
Was trying to find ways to likemask these insecurities, but

(10:07):
eventually they would meet me atthe door anyways'cause I would
end up being so drunk that Iwould be crying and, and showing
all of my feelings.
But I started using sex as a wayto like slow the thoughts down,
you know?
And like I think when you talkabout like the disease of
alcoholism, I would slow thethoughts down until they were
just like.
was nothing there, you know,until I felt nothing.

(10:28):
And then the switch would happenand I would black out, and then
I felt everything, and I don'tusually remember, but the
stories I was told after I usedsex as a release, it was also
like.
I don't know, like the bodykeeps to score like a lot of
things being trapped.
I

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03 (10:42):
trying to find a way to get the feeling
like I have very visceralresponses to things, and I'm
very self-aware.
And so I now know, like when I'mbeing heightened, I can feel it,
I can sense it, and I can, I nowhave all these healthy ways to
navigate through, like beingtriggered by this from a past
event.
Right?
But back then, any, any hairpinthing, any nuance would set me
off and I didn't know how tocope, so I couldn't wait until I

(11:05):
was able to drink my way throughit.

I see.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (11:07):
was able to drink my way through the
feelings so I could overreact,so I could, you know, I, should
not say that overreacting is notappropriate.
I was, I was reactingaccordingly.

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-0 (11:18):
release feeling vulnerable because I
would be like, oh, I wasn't, Iwas just upset because I was
drunk, you know?
Like, I don't

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (11:26):
care, because I had learned long ago
that caring or being vulnerablealways made me unsafe,

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (11:33):
you know?
So

I'm sorry.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (11:34):
use sex and alcohol as a way of
like.
But literally a physical releasetoo.
A part of it was I just neededto feel the physical.
I had all this pent up and itwas causing me visceral
responses and like somaticthings.
So I just thought, oh, sex willhelp.
You know, I

Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (11:49):
it as a literally a mechanism to
cope.

I understand that.
I totally understand, and I'mreally sorry to hear about the
abuse that you faced or sufferedbecause that can really shape.
Our relationships, and not evenjust to other people, but how we
ve ourselves.
And it's crazy.
I don't wanna objectify you inany way, Jasmine, but like, as I
look at you, you are stunning,like absolutely beautiful.

(12:12):
It's so interesting how, assomeone who is like
aesthetically gorgeous, you feltso insecure about yourself and
may have felt like you weren't.
Maybe like deserving or likeworthy of true love or we just
use sex as a way to release toyour point, release feelings

(12:32):
that we pent up.
Or for me it was definitely away of seeking connection that I
felt I was missing in my lifeand I didn't grow up with my
father being a constant presencein my life.
So I would look for attentionfrom the opposite sex and.
Growing up, you know, of courseas you develop and you turn into

(12:55):
a woman, a woman, even beforethe age of illegally 18 a, a way
in which I felt connection orwas looking for connection was
through the male gaze.
And I've had to do a lot of workin therapy to undo some of those
coping mechanisms, to yourpoint, but also just like the
way in which I view.

(13:15):
My worth and my self-worth notconnected to the way a man sees
me or what I can do for him,especially in a sexual
environment or a situation.

Absolutely.
I mean, I liked a relationshipbecause I was like, good, now I
can always get my physicalrelease.
And I thought it was soimportant to make sure he wanted
me in this way.
Like that was, that was all Ineeded for a relationship to
work out.
Right?
And it

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (13:40):
no.
And I remember like my highschool boyfriend, not to, not to
take it too far, but.
I would, you know, put myselfliterally in harm's way.
I would get on the back ofmotorcycles with man I didn't
know.
And I would go and I would do, Imean, there was other little
drops of drugs in my story.
And I would go and do somecocaine here and I would do this
and I would do that.
And then I would call him andI'd be so upset and he'd come
get me.

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (13:59):
you know, we'd have sex and he would
reprimand me or yell at me and Iwould just like, oh, I'm getting
his time and attention.
This is so good.
You know, it works out reallywell and.
Again, I was just reckless.
I, I don't think, I think upuntil age 25, I just did not
care if I lived or died.
It,

Wow.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (14:15):
it, I don't think I was super
conscious, aware, aware of it,but I look back at actions and I
look, when I became sober, Ilook back at like, oh my God.
Like it didn't matter to me.
I, and I think there was timeswhere I was seeking to escape
because I thought if I die, Ihave power.
I can just start over.
You know, who knows what

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (14:31):
like, but it won't

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (14:32):
life, you know?

Yeah, that's.
Scary when you have perspectiveand you recognize, but the
beautiful thing is like you'rein this place now you have the
perspective and you recognizehow much you were suffering.
It just sounds like, you know,when I think back to early days
or like the inner me inner childwork, right?

(14:54):
Like you wanna go back and hugthat person, like they
desperately just needed a hug.
were you attracted to men whowere older than you?
is there a connection to likeseeking a father type figure?
Because you had mentioned likeyou would call your boyfriend
and he would come get you, andit's like, then he would
reprimand you.
But like, it's still that stateof like, oh, this person cares.
Like yeah, they're upset withme.

(15:15):
But now they're also here for meand like now we have some other
connection.
Did you ever go for the olderguy?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (15:22):
All my boyfriends are older than me.

Same.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03 (15:25):
again, I just, I don't even, I guess I
didn't even realize like thatwas.
Back then, I didn't realize itwas rooted in that, but I
always, they were older than me.
Like even my ex-husband's like acouple years older than me, and
I was like, when I met him I waslike, a little too young, you
know, I'm not mature enough,which it did prove to be that,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025 (15:43):
I was like, I, I just, I looked
for that and I think, you know,when I go back and look at my
high school boyfriend, likethank goodness for him because.
When we became young adults, Iwas able to say to him like, I'm
so sorry.
I, I tried to make you my dad.
Like, I made, you have to like,take care of me.
And I didn't sometimes, like, Ihad no business in these
situations, but obviously again,I was sick and I wasn't healthy.

(16:05):
So he understood.
And like, I haven't talked tohim in years, but at the time I
was able to articulate him.
Like to him, I'm, I apologizefor causing your nervous system
such distress all the time, youknow?

Right, right.
Yeah, I, I can relate to that somuch.
I'm just like thinking, even tothis day, I, I tend to go for
older men, and it's somethingthat I.
I'm aware of, whereas before, Idon't think I was making that
connection either.
So.
Interesting.
You recognized from those earlyyears until 25, you.

(16:38):
Had pretty much little careabout like your longevity, your,
like, your wellbeing,essentially.
Did something happen around thattimeframe to where you shifted
or was there a turning point inyour story to where you started
to value life like this is asacred thing that I should hold
dear to myself and liveaccordingly?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (16:59):
Well, I had my first daughter, my just
sweet little tiny human

Oh my God.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (17:04):
I, I really truly, and this just
came over me like a few monthsago.
I did not think I was gonna livepast 25.
Like, I just,

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (17:14):
was just like, you're not girl.
It's all, it's all good.
Just live out these glory years,right.

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025 (17:18):
I re I just a few months ago
remembered like, oh my God, Iwas pregnant with my first
daughter at 25.
Like I was meant to, you know, Ibelieve keep going, you know,
and,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (17:27):
my life.
And I didn't get sober then,right?
But I, I thought motherhoodwould make me better.
I thought it would, thought itwould automatically thrust me
into feeling better.
Now, did it give me purpose tolive?
So I no longer like, felt thispool that, I mean, I felt like
this very strong pool to.
To eventually one day like die.
I didn't feel that as strong.
It was still there and we canget to that later, but I didn't

(17:48):
feel it as strong.
So I felt like, oh, I have areason to wake up in the
morning.
I have somebody to take care of.
I have somebody to give all ofthis love and empathy and this
like natural nurture that I am,I now have somebody like this
and in my little world, youknow, and I had her dad at the
time and I thought I hadromanticized our life
completely, you know, and, andit wasn't that I was in an

(18:08):
abusive.
Marriage.
But I didn't see it like that atthe time, you know?
But definitely having my firstdaughter and then 16 months
later having our seconddaughter,

Oh my God.

squadcaster-7i30_2_0 (18:20):
everything to me, you know, everything.
And I remember, when I did getsober, I remember my therapist
said, you know what anincredible burden to put on your
daughters to be your happiness,because that's it.
I was not happy in any othercircumstance unless something
was to do with them, you know?
And even then, I still wasn'tfeeling happy or fulfilled, and

(18:41):
I was like angry.
Like all I ever wanted was to bea mom.
Like since I was a little girlwalking around with little baby
dolls everywhere, you know?
ever wanted was to be a mom.
And now I'm a mom and I'm notjumping for joy every day.
You know?
Why am I still miserable up hereand in here?
What's wrong with me?
And I still did not directlyequate it to, you are an
alcoholic and you have a soulsickness and you've been
suffering, you know, maybe forlifetimes, who knows?

(19:04):
But this is, this is you know.

I got chills when you said that.
Your therapist mentioned thatwhat a burden to put on your
daughters, but like also thepressure that you put on
yourself, right?
Like this, if this is my life'scalling, this is my purpose.
Why don't I feel fulfilled?
Why don't I feel like this isenough?
And I want to get to like howyou can get to that place of
feeling.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (19:26):
Yeah.

Like it is enough, but it's not
necessarily connected to anoutside.
Entity.
Right.
That's what I believe.
At least I'm not a mom, but likeI, I can imagine the pressure
you must have put on yourself atthat time as being a young
mother in your mid twenties.
Like, oh, this is everythingI've wanted.
The happy nuclear family.
You romanticized it.

(19:47):
I, I would love to touch on, youknow, 25 to like 27.
You're a new mom with two kids,under two years old.
And you mentioned that yourhusband was also not.
The husband that you maybesigned up for or wanted to be
with?
What, like what role didsubstances play at this time?
So, was your husband alsomirroring some of your drinking

(20:09):
patterns or using patterns?
And how did, his abuse manifestin the relationship at this
time?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (20:17):
so to his, I don't wanna say
defense, but to help understandhim for a pocket in this
scenario.
is a product of an alcoholic,right, of one parent.
And I will say that, and youknow that is.
I'm allowed to say it.
It's the facts.
And so I think that there weremoments where he was giving me
quote grace, or that's what Iwas interpreting it as.

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30 (20:38):
realistically, he was just building armor to
like, you know, to take againstme.
And because again, my drinkingwas the same.
So my ex-husband was an athlete,so we would go to a lot of
events and we were always with alot of people.
And at the time, you know.
Again, my, my serious lowself-esteem.
So at face value, you look at meand you're like, oh, she must
feel great about herself.

(20:58):
Well,

Right.

everything else in here and in here, again,
sick and dark and just nothappy.
so we would go to these eventsand I would be the person that
was like, oh, does everybodywanna drink?
Let's get a glass of wine.
And, you know, a lot of walkingand mingling and talking.
And because I didn't feel like Iwas at the same value level of
these people, you know, based oneducation or based on
professionalism or based on, youknow, relationships.

(21:22):
was like, okay, I'm gonna drinka little more right now.
'cause

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-202 (21:25):
I, like, I couldn't be in my skin
and I felt like everybody couldsee me naked and, and see my,
see my literal scars.
See my metaphorical scars.
It's like they could see me andthey could just shame me every,
every step I was taking, whichwas me in my mind, but I didn't
know it at the time.
So I always ended up Intoxicatedat events, I would end up being

(21:46):
blacked out.
Like I was the girl that wouldlike sneak a bottle of wine like
in the car so I could drink it.
Or like I would do four or fivemore shots right before we left

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2 (21:55):
like get, make sure the buzz was
going and then I'd end upblacked out.
It was, I mean, I reflect now.
I have so many girlfriendsthroughout my ex-husband's time
in the league that are like, we,I don't ever remember you being
drunk.
And I'm like.
What the fuck?
I'm like, that night, him and Idefinitely fought, I was
definitely blacked out,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025 (22:11):
I would go home and do five more
shots.
You

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (22:14):
but I was always the girl who was
like somebody sipping their wineand being like, is she gonna
ever finish so we can mosey overback over to the bar?
You know?
Or like at the restaurant, I'dbe like, with my hype friends,
I'd be like, you wanna do acouple shots for dinner?
Like

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03 (22:26):
having a regular dinner.
Like there was no reason for it.
But I, again.
My super discomfort.
I was like, say to them I'mwicked uncomfortable because I
can't be vulnerable.
So I'm, I can't show that I feelless than they are,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025 (22:39):
I need to just drink my way into,
I don't even know that I thoughtI was gonna drink my way into
being social.
I just thought I was gonna drinkmy way into quieting my mind,

Got you.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-0 (22:49):
because

So you were.
You were overcompensating foryour perceived lack of like you
feeling less than in thesesocial circles, I always refer
to alcohol as a sociallubricant, right?
It just loosens you up and thenyou're able to.
Or feel as though you're moreequipped to socialize or maybe

(23:10):
sound more intellectual, andlike we are sometimes our worst,
our own worst enemy.
And we tell ourselves these liesthat other people can't detect.
Until your point, people areprobably looking at you like,
wow, Jasmine has it alltogether.
She has, you know, her man andher kids and she looks great and
she's, you know, social person.
And no one's picking up on thesevery internal but very loud.

(23:31):
Conversations or discourse thatyou're having with yourself or
within yourself, which can bereally, really powerful.
Were there ever any instanceswhere your husband blatantly or
directly said to you, I thinkthat you have a problem with
alcohol?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (23:47):
No, no,

No.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (23:49):
the very end, which is when I, there
was an incident that occurred.
It was, it was N-F-L-P-A, whichis like the players association
for the NFL.
We were, we were in Miami.
We'd gone to this thing a dozentimes, right?
Or five times.
But this particular time gotblacked out drunk.
We got into an argument becauseI was dealing with somebody who
was being dishonest as far aslike cheating, being dishonest,

(24:10):
financially, like I didn't havea job.
I was, at this point, years oflike no income.
I was moving state to state withhim in, in the league with our
two children.
And so there was a lot ofgaslighting and.
I already had insecurities againaround my intellectual
capabilities, and so I wasstarting to think I was going
crazy.
Like I was like, oh my God, I'mlosing my mind.

(24:30):
Like, and the last incidenthappened March.
Of 2020, I was blacked out,intoxicated.
We got into a big argument.
My cousin, who's like a sisterto me, that's my girl.
She's so, she's so chill andlike, so non-confrontational.
And apparently she had tried tostop me from of my biggest

(24:51):
things that I would do when Iwas blacked out drunk.
As I'm leaving, I'm walking, I'mdriving, I'm, I'm, I'm running,
I'm doing, I'm getting out, I'mdoing

Yeah.
Yeah.

containing me.
Right?
And so that was always my thing.
And so.
My ex-husband could stronghold,he could minimize that from
happening, but not my cousin.
Apparently I pushed her I don'tremember, but the next day, my
mom, my best friend and mycousin were all, they all sat me
down and they were like, listen,first off you pushed Taylor.
Like, and I was devastated bythat.
'cause again, she's, she's.

(25:18):
She's just incredibly gentlelike her.
She would never, ever, there'sno ever a justification.
And I was repeatedly saying Iwas gonna kill myself.
I was like, I know even when I'msober, that that is gonna be how
I'm gonna die.
You know, I had tried when I wasnine, when I was 14, and a month
before I met my ex-husband, Ihad attempted suicide.
So I, it scared them and itscared me because I was like,

(25:40):
oh.
don't realize how loud thosethoughts are when I'm sober.
Right.
'cause they're in here and

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-20 (25:46):
But I, I've been hearing them since
I was a little girl, so itwasn't like I knew it.
It is hard to explain.
It's like screaming underwater.
That's what they must havesounded like in here.
But every time I might getdrunk, I.
would bring up all the traumasof my past and I would cry, and
then my ex would, maybe he wouldcheat on me, or maybe he would
lie to me and not pay this bill,or maybe he would not do this or
do that.

(26:06):
And because I behaved like thatlast Saturday, I had been drunk
and calling him a liar or acoward, he would then, him and I
would both avoid.
the next day.
So I

I see.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2 (26:19):
what I had done.
And it was like, I felt soguilty for getting drunk on
Saturday, even though I said Iwasn't gonna drink for 30 days.
And then here I am two weekendslater, getting drunk and, you
know, horrible.
So I would have sex with him,like sex would make it better.

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2 (26:32):
then I would, I I, I felt like it
didn't gimme the right to say tohim, Hey, like, you're cheating
on me, and hey, you're lying tome and hey, you're calling me
stupid.
And hey, you're calling me the Bword and hey, you're yelling at
me a lot.
and I know I have problems andlike.
But you're like really mean tome.
But the last time was March of2020 and it hurt my heart so

(26:54):
bad.
It scared me to know they werelike, you, you keep saying even
when you're sober, you know thatthat's how you're gonna leave
the earth.
And I'm like, I don't remembersaying that, but I could see it
'cause I, my histor, my historyof attempting couldn't, when I
didn't think I could survivewhat I was experiencing or what
I was feeling inside.

I'm sorry to hear that.
Jasmine, it makes me sad to knowthat you were in so much pain
and to your point, like thesubconscious brain, whether you
recognize it or not, and you'resober mindset, like something
inside of you like.
Screaming and whether you weretrying to subdue it or you know,
trying to quiet or quell thatnoise with substances or dismiss

(27:37):
it, it, it still was somethinginside of you that needed to be
addressed head on.
And I can only imagine howdifficult it was to hear your
family.
The people that love youcongregate around you trying to
pour into you and saying, Hey,like you, you pushed.
Taylor and you said these thingsand like we are so concerned and
I think that's something jarringtoo, when you black out and you

(28:00):
can't remember, but like, youknow, there's some truth there.
Like, you know, that like youtrust these people, so like them
reporting it back to you like,wait, wait, no, I didn't mean it
because like, I used to hatewhen people referenced, you
know, the old adage, oh, drunkenwords or sober thoughts, and I'd
be like, no, no, no.
But there, but some, mostly Iwould say, yeah, there was

(28:20):
something inside of me that.
What that was true for.
And it's like the reckoning,like trying to combine, there's
something inside of me that Ican't quite get out, but also
like in my sober mind, I've beenso good at like dismissing that.
So like when those two worldscollide or when those two parts
of you come together, it's likereally hard to confront and deal

(28:42):
with.
So of course I want to hear howyou moved forward from that
experience in March, 2020.
But one quick note that I wannasay.
About your ex.
Obviously I don't know this man,but girl, I can resonate so hard
with like someone's doing youwrong and because you are on a

(29:03):
substance, like I would getdrunk or blackout, and I also
dabbled with other substances,so it would be like.
I would be such a fire like ballor just do something so
egregious that like, even thoughthe other person wronged me
first, now I'm in apology modein my sober state and I can't
even tackle or address all ofthe wrongdoings that were done

(29:26):
to me because I overreact or notoverreacted to your point
earlier.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03- (29:29):
mean.

But I responded in a way that was
so.
Like, so I, I can't even findthe word jasmine.
It's like, yes, so unhealthythat, that's a good way to frame
it so unhealthy that like, Ifeel shame now I can't even get
to the nitty gritty or like getto the heart of what caused me

(29:51):
to even go off the deep end tobegin with.
And so I, I can resonate and Ithink it's a form of emotional
manipulation and people.
I think specific to my past withrelationships, I think they knew
that and it was a way to likemitigate the situation from
addressing what needed to beaddressed in the first place.
Because, you know, now if wewanna talk, it's, we're gonna

(30:13):
start with you and I don't wannastart with.
So it's like, ah, we're gonnadeflect him.
We're both gonna pretend thatthis never happened.
So I, I just wanna say Iresonate with that so much.
And it's a really toxic cyclethat you can find yourself and
it's like not to blame the otherperson, like, you're the reason
I drink in the first placebecause I'm worried about these
things.
But it's a form of gaslighting.
It feels like, like now I'm likestuck and I feel like I can't

(30:35):
ever get out when I need to in ahealthy way, to your point.
But yeah, take us back to March,2020.

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Take us back to March, 2020 after
your family's telling you thatyou had these really dark
thoughts that came to light,what was that like for you?

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2 (32:31):
Took my cousin to dinner that same
night and I was likeapologizing.
But for me, I heard it, to yourpoint about blacking out.
I just, I don't know.
I, I, it was likely pride, ego,and fear, but I, I just, I heard
it and I was very apologeticfor, I was so focused on the
fact that I pushed my cousin.
I was like, let's, who caresabout what?
I said, I'm not gonna do that.

(32:52):
I'm a mom,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025 (32:52):
I was like, I'm not doing, I'm a
mom.
Mom's don't do that.
Like, in my

Yeah.
Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (32:55):
never leave my daughters.
But like, just was trying to, sojust avoid y'all just, who cares
that I said that we're movingon?
You know, I didn't say that tothem, but that I so desperately
wanted them to focus on the factthat I pushed Taylor and like
that I was, that I got in a

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2 (33:08):
and.
You know that our baby wascrying and I was still yelling
and like, I was like, everybody,please just ignore that.
I said I was gonna kill myself.
I'm obviously not, you know,but.
Deep down, I was afraid it wasthe first moment of like, oh my
God, I thought I was doing agood job.
I thought I was doing a good jobof these voices.
I thought they were gettingsmaller.
I thought the soundbite wasgetting less like deafening.

(33:30):
I thought I was gettinghealthier because I was married
and I had two kids and you know,we had what I thought was a good
financial standing and you know,I had some friends and I had
started volunteering for thisdomestic violence shelter, which
there are layers.
Before March, 2020, like mildly,just before that, I was always

(33:53):
being pulled to get sober.
Right?
Like, I think when you getsober, that's something,
something calls you there.
But I, I might have been callingme for a long

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (34:01):
and my ex did say to me one time,
like, you always say you'regonna go to therapy or, you
know, all you do is cry aboutall this stuff that's happened
to you when you were younger.
Every time you get drunk and youknow, you always say you're
gonna go to therapy.
And finally I was like, allright, he has a point.
say I'm gonna go to therapy andthen I don't.
So I got a therapist and thankgoodness for Polly.
I got a therapist.
She's not my therapist anymore,but at the time I started
working with her.

(34:21):
And then I ended up going intolike hypnosis therapy.
Like, so I had two the talktherapists and hyp hypno
hypnosis therapy, and my primarytherapist that I was seeing at
that time, were also going intocouples therapy.
I.
With, with the team therapist,which was a horrible idea, but I

(34:41):
was going with it.
because at this point, I mean,the name calling and the yelling
was getting so bad, and I waslike, because I was starting to
challenge more because afterMarch, 2020, I was like, all
right, slow down.
So I was like, oh, 30 days, nodrinking, you know, whoop boop.
And then I would casually alittle bit like, and then maybe
I would get blacked out, but Iwould like just have a lot of
sex and not be too crazy, youknow, like, so it was fine.

(35:03):
And.
I started going into therapy, Istarted telling, I, I wasn't
telling anybody what wasactually going on, like on the
outside.
Everything was per, everythingwas what I wanted it to be.
I, I was the Disney story.
It was perfect.
You know, I was always a damnzone in distress.
I was my, my greatest show.
I was, I could always findmyself somewhere in distress
waiting on Amanda to come on.

(35:24):
And my ex was that for me, hewas the ultimate, like I had.
Poured all my traumas into himand he was like, I love you
anyways.
So I thought, right.
And I will say that too, to, I'mnever placing my alcohol, my
alcoholism on anybody else.
When I, I mean, I remember whenI filed for divorce, I told Sam
like, you not create this, thissickness in me, this darkness.

(35:48):
But dark does not seek outlight, dark, seek out dark.
So naturally had to be darkerthan the one what I'm suffering
through and.
You just fed the beast and youknew you were feeding the beast
and you said, checkmate, everytime I feed the beast, I get to
want, I get to do what I wannado.
I get to go and lie and cheatand steal and do whatever, you
know.
March of 2020 was the, okay,maybe you should get a

(36:11):
therapist.
Then my therapist was like, Hey,maybe we should explore a
treatment center.
And I was like, that's cute.
I'm not leaving my daughters forany period of time ever again.
And she is

Hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (36:21):
Maybe a treatment center that's really
focused on like trauma and likehealing and like you're in her
child and she's like, you needto go somewhere.
And she, she had yet to say tome, you're an alcoholic.
She did not even.
I didn't even come across herlike verbiage and I was like,
okay, place that deals withtrauma.
Like maybe, and that it took meall the way until July to
actually go and I had donemonths of like around this

(36:44):
couple places because it wasalso during Covid.
So there was a lot of fear forme and general leaving my
daughters, you know,

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (36:53):
but it was what made me, okay, I
need to go to treatment.
And having my therapist wholike, Jasmine, you need
treatment.
And I.
I vividly remember one of thegreatest gifts I got early
sobriety, early, you know,leaving an abusive marriage
early, like one aiding my life.
I was desperately seekingclarity.

(37:15):
I mean, I was so afraid I waslosing my mind because I swear
when you're with somebody andit's hard to, it sometimes can
be hard for people who are unlooking just the same way.
People who are not in recoveryto understand you can't stop
drinking, how you can't stopdrugging, how you can't leave an
abusive relationship.
But I got to the point where.
I couldn't, if you told me that,that's a, if you told me that

(37:37):
wasn't a butterfly and I'mlooking right at that butterfly
behind you, but at this pointnow you're screaming at

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03 (37:42):
you're telling me it's not a butterfly,
and maybe you throw in some likepoor adjectives about me the
time we're done, I'm eitherlike, you know what?
It's not a butterfly.
I don't care.
I'm too exhausted to care.
Or I'm like, oh my God, I don'tknow if it's a butterfly, is it?
I'm not sure.
That was the point I was in inmy relationship.
I was losing none of mythoughts.
Felt like I made any sense ever.

(38:03):
So then I eventually, likebefore I went to treatment, I
basically became a mute.
I didn't say much.
I didn't do much, I didn't havemuch of an opinion.
I just starting to really becomea shell of myself.
And the shell that was inside ofme very hollow was starting to
come out.
And I don't know if I'm goingtoo far ahead, but I remember
when I, when I shared this withsometimes clients or sometimes

(38:24):
other, other women, I remembervery vividly.
mom was coming to Florida tovisit and our daughters were
napping.
My ex was at practice and ouroldest came down.
I had like a bowl of salsa.
It was a beautiful, like, sunnyday.
I had a bowl of salsa on thecouch and she didn't take a nap,
so I was like, whatever, justget up, you know?

(38:44):
I'm already frustrated as a mom.
You're like, you need a nap so Ican finish my book.
And she came down and she likejumped up onto the couch and I
kept telling myself, move thesalsa.
Like silly thing, move, justmove the sauce.
And I was like, no, she'ssupposed to be sleeping again.
Super juvenile.
And she, this whole bowl ofsauce spills onto our carpet.
And I remember looking at herand then looking at the, this

(39:06):
very like small situation, but Ifelt nothing I looked at my
child.
And I wasn't angry.
I wasn't sad.
I I, I was like looking rightthrough her.
She might as well have not evenbeen standing there.
I was just so like,

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (39:20):
And we went to pick up my mom from
the airport and my daughters andI and my mom got in and I was
like, mom, my heart likephysically hurts and I don't
know what to do about it.
Like, I'm scared it hurts.
The hurts so bad and I don't,I'm having physical pains and I
don't know how to make it stop.
And she had already known acouple things that were going on
'cause she had now called acouple phone calls of like.
He'd be screaming at me.
I'm telling him, you know, youneed to leave for now because we

(39:41):
need to figure this out.
The kids and the kids are herewas getting worse because I
think I started to get intofight, fight or freeze mode.
And I was like, all right, well,I wasn't thinking if I'm leaving
him, but I was thinking, okay,if I have to fight to stay
alive, like some sort of likething in me needs to stay alive,
then I gotta start like speakingup.
I gotta start questioningthings.
I gotta start challenging thesestories he's telling me.
Then when I decided, okay, I'mgonna go to treatment, it was.

(40:06):
wedding anniversary before, andwe had wine from like Spain or
something, and I was like, oh,well, too bad I'll never drink
that wine.
He was like, you know, not?
And I was like, well,'causeremember I'm trying to not drink
for 30 days before I leave fortreatment.
And he is like, well, you couldjust have a little.
And I remember thinking tomyself, somebody that loves me

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (40:27):
would see.
It wouldn't be hard to see, likethe amount of on in my brain
because I don't wanna drink it,but I wanna drink it.
Like, I don't wanna drink it,but

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (40:35):
it.
And it's like, I'm, I amsuffering so deeply in this
question, and I just needed somesupport, you know?
And then there was things thathappened after treatment, but I
was dying for clarity because Ithought I'm losing my mind.
Like I'm, I'm, I'm going toliterally have nervous
breakdown.
And then just like a week beforetreatment, my brother came to

(40:56):
visit and I, I don't think I'veever experienced, don't know if
there's a difference of likephysical depression in my life
that I can remember.
I'm sure like in my drunken daysthere were moments, but I
remember I physically felt likeI weighed bricks and I like was
laying in the bed.
I could not get up.
I.
two, my brother was like, you'reacting acting like mom, get up.

(41:18):
Like go downstairs, do somethingwith your day.
And so I got up, I attempted tomake my daughter's lunch for
school, and I was like, I can't.
And I just got

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (41:26):
and I, it that terrified me.
And I was like, all right, Ihave to, I have to get signed up
for treatment.
I have to do it.
And it still took me 30 daysactually do the, to commit to
it, because I was terrified.
I, I.
I had all these issues around,am I gonna abandon them?
Do they think I'm abandoningthem?
Can they survive without me?
Like when they have dad, youknow?
And then my mom was here and wehad a babysitter, and then we
had things in place.

(41:47):
My brother was here, but, I'mscared, you know?
And the reality is I was Afraidof, you know, I had romanticized
this idea that like, if I can'tchange me, right?
I was hoping I would get totreatment and they would say,
your husband's insane.
You're crazy.
You need to change.
And I'd be, yes.
Me, I could change me, you know?
Okay.
But no, they were like, yourhusband's abusing you and you're

(42:07):
an alcoholic and you have aextensive history of trauma and
we are gonna work on some

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (42:12):
and you're not gonna drink.
That is a separate thing.
You're not gonna do nothing forhim.
You can't change him, you can'tcontrol him.
You have to focus here and thenyou'll see what comes out of
focusing here, what comes out ofmoving over there.
And so I just vividly remember.
I.
These like little magic momentsI would say like little micro
miracles I call them.
But I was on the phone outsidewith my brother the night before

(42:34):
I was leaving and I'm crying.
I have three brothers, one ofthem two aren't, weren't here.
And I was crying.
I'm like, Anthony, I just can'tleave the girls.
They're gonna feel abandoned.
Like, you know, what would theythink?
What if I can't do it?
And he puts me on hold.
I look up and a shooting starwent by and I'm like, big on
like these signs, right?

Wow, me too.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (42:52):
said, hold on, I would've been deep in
the call and I'm like, chiefinga cigarette.
You know, I'm stress smoking.
I don't even smoke, but I'mjust, I used to smoke, so I'm
like, this is a coping mechanismagain.

Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2 (43:02):
used to smoke cigarettes and I'd be
like, I need a cigarette.
I can't breathe.

I'm laughing too because like I've
definitely said that.
Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (43:12):
But yeah, so I I a lot of clarity.
I mean, like a.
I'm whiplash.
I'm in the ocean just gettingtossed around, like getting
fighting for my life or breath.
But each breath I take is like abreath of like, you're gonna
survive this.

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03 (43:27):
going, you have

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-202 (43:28):
It has to feel this way right now.
'cause you are deep in middle ofa hurricane right now in a
tsunami in the middle of theocean.
And it's not gonna be theeasiest thing to get out of E
Even now I'm like, I'm still inthe ocean.
have learned now that like.
I can lay back and I can floatwhen I'm feeling stressed and I
can let the sun, you know,literally and metaphorically be

(43:51):
with me, and I can, I don't haveto

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-202 (43:54):
be treading water.
You know, I was always in fight,flight, freeze acquiesce mode.
I was, I lived in that.

But when you live in that, that
there's a source of comfortthere because it's what you
know, it, it's like all youknow.
And I think a big part of youbecoming, more withdrawn, it
sounds like conditioning a formof conditioning, like to your
point.
With the butterfly behind you?
If I'm like, no, that's a snail.
What are you talking about?
Like you're crazy.
Like that gaslighting, I knowthis term gets thrown around a

(44:22):
lot, but like the whole premiseof gaslighting is that it comes
from an old Alfred Hitchcockmovie where literally, I.
It's gradual.
Like you put your hand over thestove and it like gets turned up
one knob or notch at a time towhere it's like you don't
realize until it's too late,like, oh my hand's on fire.
But it's such a gradual processthat like it's a form of

(44:45):
conditioning.
You don't even realize it.
And it's like if you're beingtold you're crazy, you're wrong.
You're this, you're that.
And then the juxtaposition beingon the surface.
Life looks pretty.
This is what I've, everythingI've wanted, right?
This is what.
Right.
Yeah.
Like it's, it's really thatduality can be really, really
hard and confusing.

(45:05):
And I think sometimes we haveguilt and shame where it's like,
I have so much to be gratefulfor.
But it's like, how can you bepresent and be the best version
of self for yourself, first andforemost, but them for your
daughters, and show up in theway you know that you, they
deserve that you wanna give tothem, but you're, you literally
stifled or riddled with.
Grief or grief slash guilt slashfear.

(45:26):
Like I don't wanna leave them.
How can I leave them as theirmom?
But it's like, how can I be themom they need if I don't do the
work that I need to do onmyself?
Sometimes there are things inour path that like present
themselves as a form of supportbecause it sounds like, you
know, your husband was like,your ex was like, oh yeah, go to
therapy.
Do the work.
But when you really start to dothe work and challenge him, it's

(45:47):
also like broken bird syndromewhere it's like, oh no, I need
you to kind of stay sick.
So that I don't have to changemyself, and this is in regards
to maybe your husband or yourex.
So yeah, tell us a little bitabout, you know, was he on board
with treatment?
Because it sounds like therapywas one piece, but then when it
came time to go to treatment andyou are pushing back more, was

(46:09):
he like on board with that aswell?
And then when you got to therapyor treatment, I should say, what
were those concrete pieces offeedback you were getting?
Like, oh, a real change needs tohappen in my life.

treatment, yes and no.
I had set up like real like,okay, this is the days the
babysitter's gonna come.
I had made arrangements.
I think that treatment, he wason board because he and I both
had the same thought that theywere gonna be like, yeah.
Like he, he had manipulated thesituation ever.
They were gonna be like, yeah,you crazy.
You're the problem.
He is.
And I think that he thought Iwas gonna go there and say that.

A good man.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (46:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I think that he thought Iwas gonna go there and say that,
and I kind of thought I wasgonna go there and say that
because again, I was still, ohno, you're not gonna ruin my
perfect fuck.
You're not gonna ruin thispicture.
It's perfect.
Nobody's gonna ruin thisbeautiful family that I, that
I've worked so hard for.
You know?
And so in my mind and in his, Ithink that he was gearing up to

(47:03):
Sure go and because he was readyto be like, you left us for 30
days.
'cause that came up.
That came,

Oh.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (47:10):
still comes up and it's been five
years.
So, yeah.
Think he was preparing of like,yes, and, I can't assume, but I
can base it off of previouspatterns, right.
Of behavior of his, that therewas probably a thought of like,
yeah, sure.
Go.
We'll see how long it lasts, youknow, because I had, I had a
serious pattern of like, I'm notdrinking for 30 days, and

(47:30):
sometimes I'd get 30 days andthen I would.
the moment I could drink again,I would black out again.
'cause I didn't have a stop onceI started.
I think that, and then when Iwas at treatment, you know, I
started having conversationswith my therapist or with other
women there, with othertherapists there in like small
groups and getting feedback orlistening in to something else.
And I'm like, huh.
That's a good, that's a goodmoment to like inquire about

(47:51):
something.
And then he would like try toflip the script, but at this
point I had now clarity.
I had other people going, thatdoesn't make any sense, Jasmine,
that just because he's sayingthat, does that make sense?
You know, like, I mean.
There were things like, youknow, my car disappeared for
months and months and months.
Or, you know, financial thingswere just like, financial abuse
was crazy'cause we didn't haveelectricity on certain occasions

(48:13):
and I'm, I'm talking about aprofessional athlete.
And I was like, you know, and Iwould, I would question that and
I would get called names and Iwould screaming at me and
eventually you're just like,okay, forget it.
You know?
I don't, I don't know, but Ithink

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-202 (48:26):
in treatment and little things were
coming up and I'd have thesepockets of time to talk to him.
He would again, do the lying anddo the like, we'll focus on you
while you're there.
And I'm like, okay, I'm, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-202 (48:37):
in and in the factual matter I was
away, it also gave me aperspective of like, only miss
our daughters.
Like, I don't even miss him.
And I, it didn't, I don't thinkI realized it at the time, but I
only wanted to ever talk to thembecause I, I was so desperate.
Like I just wanted to be withthem, you know?
Like, I wish I could havebrought them with me on the
journey, which isn't evenrealistic and wouldn't have been

(48:59):
able to get what I needed.
But while I was there, Iremember, and this goes back to
like this physical feeling of myheart hurting, and this was the
most, one of the most profoundmoments.
of coming alive was, we were ina group setting where I, where I
went to treatment, there was arock star and he wouldn't mind
if I say his name, but I'm notgonna he's going on and at this

(49:20):
point he wasn't there again forlike heroin.
He was there because he washabitually lying and cheating.
And he was like, I need help,you know?
And so he we're

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (49:28):
and he's like, we're basically in
an, in a NA meeting.
And he's going on about how, alladdicts and alcoholics are
liars.
All we ever do is lie.
We just lie to people.
We don't care about anybody.
And there was a young man whowas there in a wheelchair and he
was in the wheelchair because hehad been in two car accidents in
one night.
So he, you know, was messed updriving high and drunk and drove
and then crashed that truck.

(49:48):
And he was in lives in themiddle of the country.
So he was like, all right, comeon, somebody to pick me up.
I'm going again.
Gets to another car.
The second time he crashes andhe ends up paralyzed and he
goes.
his turn to share.
And he goes, actually, I'm ahorrible liar.
Like, it doesn't make I feelhorrible.
Like I feel nausea when I lie.
He's like, but like, I don'tknow.
I just don't like it.
Like, but I lied to myself.

(50:09):
And when he said that, like, oh,I have never had like a more.
When he said that, I literallylike something just and I
remember feeling like, like itwas like somebody took my heart
and went like a wishbone justlike broken in half.
And I felt this physical feelingof my heartbreaking and I stood

(50:29):
up and I was like, I have beenactively descriptively,
aggressively lying to myself.
And it just.
When I tell you I sob likesomething died.
'cause I truly believe in myheart that it did.
I went outside behind this shedand I I mean, I didn't stop
sobbing.
I sobbed the whole way out.
But I, I wanted like some sortof semblance of privacy.

(50:50):
I.
Sobbed and I sobbed and I'mbeing probably like four and a
half hours because at some pointor another, eventually, like
they came to get me and I wentinto my little cabin and I was
in my shower and they all knewhow much I love music.
So nobody's saying anything tome.
Nobody goes and says, HeyClaudia, like Jasmine needs her
music'cause you don't have yourphone.
Get it for like certain times.
But I just remember like Claudiacoming and putting my, my phone

(51:11):
like right outside the showerand being like, you have your
music.
'cause I was, I mean, it was.
The water was cold and I justwas sitting in there just
sobbing and I put my music onand I just kept on crying'cause
I couldn't stop.
It was like, for the first timein my whole life, I was feeling
every emotion sober.
And the reality had said, un tome.
Like, I don't like to lie.
It makes me, I really suck atit.

(51:31):
I wish, I truly do, wish I wasbetter at it.
Like I had been so, so, soviolently lying to myself and it
was killing me and I didn't.
Know what to do with that andRight, right.
Prior going to treatment, I,well, right when I got into
treatment, I had told mytherapist there and my breath

(51:52):
work therapist there who savedmy life, I had said, you know.
If I can't change myself, I'mnot gonna accidentally give all
my girls my burden to my demons.
I'll kill myself.
I'm like, I will write themthese beautiful letters.
And I had romanticized like, Ibelong in the ocean, so I'm
gonna do like Virginia Wolf, I'mgonna drink a ball skiva and I'm

(52:13):
gonna walk myself into theocean.
Like, I'm not gonna ruin them.
I'm not gonna ruin them even onaccident because I don't intend
to.
Right?
What mother, my mom, through allof her things, she loved us.
She certainly put me in harm'sway.
Right.
And so I just was for sure.
I'm like, I'm not, I'm not gonnabe that mom.
And if I can't do anything aboutthis crazy that I am,'cause I'm
losing my mind, gonna killmyself and I'm gonna write them

(52:35):
these beautiful letters and thenthey'll always have an idea of
me and.
Maybe they'll get a betterstepmom or whatever.
And I, there's so many layers tothat, but being in treatment for
35 days, being away fromsomebody who was telling me, you
are crazy.
All these traumas, you can't,these traumas make you
illogical.
You can't think clearly.
Wish there were pockets of truthin that, right?

(52:55):
Because there were moments whereI was behaving.
erratically when I would beupset about something
intoxicated, but for the mostpart, I was pretty level-headed
and like rational.
I would just maybe have bigemotional outbursts when I'd be
getting gaslit for an hour and ahalf.
And so I remember vividly thatmoment.
It was like all of a sudden Ifelt the fear and I did it

(53:17):
anyway.
Like I knew, okay, now you haveto walk into this psycho drama
and like.
this man that you're intreatment with and this man that
you're in treatment with.
Be your dad.
Be your stepdad.
Be this abuser.
Be this abuser.
Be this person like, and you'regonna walk through how much this
hurts.
You're gonna sit in breath workand you're gonna physically feel
where your body is holdingthings and you're gonna breathe

(53:38):
and you're gonna do it.
And.
I we did this exercise andbreath work and I started dry
heaving.
Like, I was like, I hatethrowing up for somebody who was
desperate to be skinny.
I hate that was like one of thethings I just could not do.
I hated throwing up.
And I said that to emphasizelike that was how much I just
despised throwing up.

(53:58):
And I was dry heaving reallyheavily.
And I said to Clark, I went intothe bathroom and I dry heaved
for like a few minutes and Icame back out and Clark was our
breath work instructor and hewas like, he was like, are you
okay?
You need the nurse?
And I said, no.
And he said, okay, good.
Like, again, it was likereleasing something here.
You know, I had all this pentup, not having any voice being
choked, like all these things.
I was releasing something.
And so from that point on, nolonger was going to treatment

(54:21):
and pretending like I was gonnago home and it was gonna be
perfect.
I did not necessarily know

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (54:26):
going to leave him.
I knew I was gonna stay soberbecause something died.
Like I hadn't that, that feelingof my heartbreaking.
When I'm like processing and I,I've said this story so many
times, but I'm just realizingthat like I had felt that many a
times as a little girl, I hadquickly.
I once I, you know, I wouldwrite as a little kid.

(54:48):
I would run, I would play.
You had a lot of the ways tocope as, as a kid then as a
young girl, I would sex with myboyfriend.
I would drink.
Then as a young woman, I woulddo outrageous, dangerous things,
you know, and I would drink andI would have sex with my
boyfriend.
So I kept on finding ways tohurry, hurry, sew it up, sew it
up, sew it up, you know?
It doesn't fully just comeundone.
But I literally broke and Ididn't rush to put my heart back

(55:12):
together.
I was just like.
What This is heavy and I can't,I can't pick it up right now.
I have to leave it just likethis.
Open, vulnerable, susceptible tomore harm, but it is a risk I'm
willing to take because I wantto be alive now.
I want to be here.
I want to mother.
My daughters, I want to be suchan emotional, space for them.

(55:37):
Whether that's rage, joy, youknow, sorrow.
I wanna be that for them, youknow?
And I am that for them.
But at the time I thought thesebig feelings would kill me.
like, I can't, you don'texperience the things that I've
experienced with, with nowherefor them to go for years, you
know?

(55:57):
And.
You do, and you then you, yousurvive them, you know?
And, but you survived them.
I, for me at least, it had to bein community and it had to be an
incredibly safe community, youknow?
And I had to, I had to come outof it, right back to the same,
literally gaslighting me,telling me if he had papers.

(56:17):
I wouldn't believe in many ways.
And, and my therapist, I got herback on the phone with her and
she said to me, Jasmine, why areyou staying with him?
She's like, be realistic withyourself.
Is it, you know, this reason orthis reason or this reason.
She's like, none of thosereasons are there anymore.
Why are you staying?
What are you doing?
And it was like, I think sheknew to end what she said.

(56:39):
She said, listen to me.
Do you wanna go to couplestherapy?
'cause I kept being like, wellyou're gonna find this couples
therapist.
Like, you know, you and Claudia,my therapist had treatment, had
discussing, even though, I guessin the end they were like, one
of us are doing that.
We, you're gonna be the one totell her.
'cause she's got a year's worthof rapport with you.
And, she said, do you wanna goto couples therapy?
And I was like, no, it was, thiswas September.
I left treatment in August.

(57:00):
And she said, okay, then.
Well, ethically, I will notrecommend therapy when you're
being abused.
She's like, so you need to leavehim.
And I was like, know, therapistsdon't say that to you.
So I was like, sure.
But it, it just, it just like,yeah.
I, yes, yes I do, because here Iam now, you know, a few weeks
out of treatment and we've had.

(57:20):
This ongoing argument.
He keeps calling me stupid.
He called me a stupid, Iliterate bit.
B word.
Like he keeps on trying to findways to bring me lower.
And I say this to women when Ishare, when he comes into the
story, they're always like, youknow, how did you leave him?
Like, how did you know?
And I said, aside from mytherapist saying that, I vividly
remember we were arguing aboutthe same thing.

(57:41):
My car being gone for months andmonths and then this other car,
and then this whole layers tothese lies.
And he's screaming at me and I'mstarting to yell back.
And because I'm just, I'm just acouple weeks removed from
treatment, I just fell to theground and started sobbing.
'cause I was like, okay, whatchagonna do here?
Girl?
Like you, you don't got a lot inyou.
You're just, you're juststarting to see the mountain.

(58:03):
You're even walking up it yet,you're just starting to see it.
And I fell to my knees and Istarted sobbing and he, you
would think in that moment, likesomebody that loves you, even
the tiny would just stop.
No.
He kept screaming at me and thenhe left.
And I remember with like myknees in my chest, like almost
like a child pose with my kneestogether, sitting on the carpet.

(58:27):
I don't know how long I wasthere, but I remember thinking
like, this is it and you'regonna be okay.
And are be

Mm

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2 (58:34):
your mom has been okay.
Your grandmother has been okay.
You're gonna be okay

mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-20 (58:38):
and you're gonna start over and
you're gonna struggle and it'sgonna be scary, but you'll be
damned, you know?
And.
When I was in treatment, Iremember like explaining this
analogy that my good girlfriendCara had given me, who also gave
me on Tames an incredible justwoman friend, mother survivor.
She said to me, you know, we allare born with a glass, right?

(58:58):
And like the goal as parents isto not.
Even smudge the glass, right?
We don't want, we don't evenwanna chip the glass.
Like, we don't wanna do anythingto this glass.
We wanna keep our babies allperfect and never harm them.
And never hurt them, never cause'em any strife.
And I said, well, if that's thecase, my mom took the glass and
was like, fuck it.
me.
She just threw it against thewall and it shattered
everywhere, right?
And one of my friends intreatment was like, well, what

(59:19):
do you know?
You know?
Stained glass windows are madeoutta shattered glass.
And that was a perspective shiftfor me.

the-sober-butterfly_ (59:24):
Beautiful.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03- (59:25):
like, oh my God, I'm not

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03 (59:27):
goods.
My whole life has been trial anderror.
I've been cutting my fingers,you know, trying to find these
pieces to fix myself.
But in all

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03 (59:35):
pieces don't.
They're not needed for thepicture.
You know, I can still createthis beautiful mosaic and live
this very rich life, and I'm noteven saying monetarily, but live
this very rich life.

Yeah.

daughters without a lot of pieces, you
know, and it

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03 (59:57):
again, I think that's why the community
is so important.
But those, those pockets of ofmoments just kept pouring into
me and just kept reminding melike, you're gonna be okay.
And, and it, it's gonna hurt.
And I remember.
know, early in sobriety, I spenttwo hours in my car listening to
a Dert Kennedy song in front ofthe Dollar Tree for two hours,
the same song, and I stoppedbecause it came down to like,

(01:00:19):
you're either gonna go get drunkright now, or you're gonna feel
it and you're gonna feel ituntil you feel.
Better or until you feel contentor even keeled, until you feel
like you can breathe, you'regoing to feel it, Jasmine,
because you can feel thesethings and you can, and you will
survive them.
There's no two ways about it.
And then now I had, now I had nodoubt of that.
I knew it.

(01:00:40):
And so it was like, all right,sometimes it's gonna hurt, you
know?

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03- (01:00:43):
I, I have a chills, Jasmine.
I'm trying to hold it together'cause like, there were moments
where I, like, I just feel soconnected to what you're sharing
and it makes me want to cry.
It's beautiful and it's painful.
And when you were describingyour life.
As broken glass that can createa beautiful, beautiful mosaic.

(01:01:04):
Right?
It's also, I, I think likeimportant for your daughters and
how beautiful.
You have daughters too, right?
Like you two daughters I thinkit's so.
Powerful for your daughters tosee you assemble the pieces.
Like not just slap it together,like just, oh, I'm gonna make it
fit and destroy yourself in theprocess of trying to create

(01:01:27):
something, but like actually todo the work and say like, I,
maybe I'm gonna be vulnerableand show my daughters that.
Like I would rather have.
Uncertainty or fear in this partof my life that I don't know how
it ends as opposed to staying ina situation that I do know how

(01:01:49):
it ends.
And I think going back to whatyou had mentioned before, and I
it's a question for you too,like, what was the biggest lie
you told yourself when you hadthat breakthrough moment in.
Your session with yourcommunity, like what was the lie
do you think that you toldyourself the most that was

(01:02:10):
anchoring you or holding youback for so long?

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025 (01:02:14):
I think in Twofolds, maybe even
this is a little trifold.
I think one, um, I was tellingmyself, you're fine.
It's okay.
You know, I

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-0 (01:02:22):
Hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:02:23):
to stop crying, you know, like,
that was, that was deeplyingrained in my system.
Stop crying.
I'm a big feeler.
I've been a big feeler kidprobably since, you know,
brought out the womb.
Um, next was that.
You won't survive if you, ifyou, if you face the darkness,
you ain't coming out the tunnelbaby girl, you're not gonna make
it.
You're too far in, you're toofar deep in the ocean.

(01:02:43):
You cannot get back.
Like, there's no point.
So just suffer.
Right?
And the other one was that, youknow, cannot face the reality of
everybody knowing that I, that Ifailed at my life, you know,
that I got pregnant withsomebody.
I was never gonna be in anabusive relationship.
You know, I.
I had left a, a physicallyviolent man who almost killed me

(01:03:06):
thinking, well, he doesn't hitme.
You know, like, and I remembertelling my therapist, I wish he
would just, oh God, I rememberthis.
I, I wish he would just punchme.
Then I could just say, look,everybody, I have to leave him,
see what

the-sober-butterfly_5_02- (01:03:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02- (01:03:16):
Jasmine, who do you have to show that to?
I'm like, I have to validatesomething to somebody.
So I think.
One was the, you know, I wasafraid, you know, like, I can't
survive.
next was just like this shame oflike, I can't tell anybody.
And the other one was just like,where, what to do?

(01:03:39):
You know?
Like, I just didn't see, therewas no way, there was no exit
strategy that seemed feasible tochange.
I didn't, I didn't even think Icould at the time, and so I was
telling myself, you're fine.
It's okay.
Suck it up buttercup.
Get over yourself.
Like I, I just had a suchnegative, negative regard to my
emotions.
You know,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_ (01:04:00):
everything, if I thought anything that was
uncomfy, how dare I essentially,you know, like you are expected
to be this way and that's it.
But I was doing that to myself.
People didn't expect me tobehave that way.
I just kept telling myself thatbecause I was always, again, in
places I didn't belong withpeople that didn't care about
me.
So, of course, they wanted me tojust smile and be there because.

(01:04:21):
They didn't, they didn't haveany regard for me as a human
being, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_5_02 (01:04:25):
Right, right.
So now.
To go back to you in child'spose, essentially sobbing in
front of a man who's supposed tolove you and honor you and stand
by you, especially in earlyrecovery, like you just came out
of treatment and to your point,your.

(01:04:48):
Open like your, your heart isopen.
You're in such a vulnerableplace.
This is where a lot of peoplewho come out of treatment or who
are in early recovery, like thisis a time where you're ultra
sensitive and you sitting in aparking lot outside of idolatry
listening to the same song.
Like no, literally I've beenthere too, not like quite

(01:05:11):
literally there, but I've beenin the space where I'm like,
two.
Roads diverge, whatever the, theRobert Frost poem is like in the
middle of the woods.
And it's like I can take thepath that I've always taken once
again, going back to comfort.
Like even though I know it'sself-destructive, it's something
that I'm familiar with andtherefore I want to go that way,

(01:05:31):
or I can go into the unknown andthat territory feels.
Fucking frightening.
Right?
So obviously you stayed thecourse and you decided to stay
sober in the back of your mind,you know, because you've had
heating from your therapist andyou, you've also, you're also
tapping, it sounds to me likeyou're tapping into your inner
voice and you're recognizing,okay, like even though there are

(01:05:52):
no physical scars, like this isabusive and I need to get out of
this.
It's me or him.
And so what did you do?
Like take us back to that momentlike.
Was it you being on the floorsobbing and him leaving for you
to say like, this is it?
Or like, how did you get to theplace where you're like, I, I'm
done.
I don't care what the imagelooks like.
I don't care what people thinkof me or what the perception is.

(01:06:14):
Like I'm choosing me and mydaughters and I'm getting out of
here.

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squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:08:01):
Well, I mean that moment happened
after I left treatment, but intreatment.
You do this thing called atrauma egg, and essentially it
is like, for me, at the time, Ifelt like I was burying myself
alive and I was reallystruggling to do it.
But it is, it's essentially youdraw out, you can do stick
figures, you have to createimages of your traumas so that
it hits different parts of thebrain, right?
It's called a trauma egg.

(01:08:21):
And they give you a poster andutilize the space as you need.
And so I have, again, extensivehistories of traumas.
It fill the whole poster.
And at the very top of my traumaegg is my current life, and
it's.
Myself, him, our daughters, andthey are, um, crouched out in
this space and they're sayingthings like, what, why?
And they have a couple tears intheir eyes and the amount of

(01:08:42):
teardrops was really importantto like express what, like how
far are they into the scenario?
You know, like how much do theyknow?
How much do they recognize?
Like this is unhealthy, arethey, how afraid are they?
Like they're so, they were so,so

Sorry, Jasmine, how old were your
daughters at this time?
I'm just curious.
Four.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:08:58):
about to be three and four.

Okay.
Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:09:00):
yeah, the, our youngest was gonna be
three in November, and this wasall happening around, um, from
July to October is when I was intreatment and leaving and all
the things.
Um, but on my trauma egg, whereall four of us and then in there
is also like me holding a bottleof wine somewhere, like in the
sky kind of.

(01:09:21):
And I drew this darkness aroundall of us.
And then he's screaming allthese horrible words around me.
kind of crouched down in thecorner, confused and crying.
And then outside of the darknessand all these horrible words,
they're like, I love you.
I'm sorry.
You're the best thing that everhappened to me.
Like, you know, I think you aresmart.
I mean, I wish I didn't call youthat.
I didn't say, you are a bitch.
I said you were being a bitch.

(01:09:42):
Like, I'm not calling youstupid.
I just think sometimes you don'tthink clearly or like, you know,
whatever.
And I was looking at my traumaegg, which you're supposed to
burn, which that's a wholenother story, but, um, I was
looking at it.
After that scenario, after thatincident happened, I was like,
this, all of these things thathave happened to me, that have

(01:10:06):
happened for me not me and willnever be me.
The darkest place I've ever beenin my life is with this man how
I'm like looking at it and I'mlike, how?
And then I, I like, at them,their, their stick figures on
the poster and I was like,absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
I lived with monsters of men.
I'm not doing it.

(01:10:27):
I'm not doing it.
And know, even now I have toreflect on, know, sometimes I
have a little bit of mom guilt,but I also recognize that like,
if I was to still be alive atthis point our timeline, this
current day, I would be a numbedout, drinking like I, I wouldn't
be healthy, right?

(01:10:48):
Or I

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:10:48):
at all.
Because again, I, I would've, itwouldn't have taken long to get
me back to thinking I was losingmy mind.

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:10:54):
Um, and so the, the, the straw that
broke the camel's back was likethat moment looking at my
poster.
And then he had gotten traded.
So he was gone for like a monthand I had time to like.
Be with just me and the girls.
And I remember we went to thezoo.
Oh, this memory's so rich.
It's so good.
We went to the zoo and we werewalking around the zoo, and for

(01:11:15):
the first time I felt, I feltlike how you can feel now that
I'm sober, I can feel intensejoy, intense sadness.
I know that I can feel them all.
remember wa and I, I smell theair right now.
I see the giraffes, likeremember walking around the zoo
and they're running it, andthey're walking in front of me
and thinking to myself.

(01:11:35):
This is what life would be likewhen it's just us three, you
know?
And I felt so peace.
It was just like, but it was amicro moment, right?
It wasn't this big old thing,but I just remember the feeling
of like, it was like, you couldpaint us and we would stay there
forever, you know, like, and itjust, I don't know.
It was so magical to just, Ithink that was my higher power,

(01:11:56):
saying like, this is what lifecan be.
It's not always gonna be roses,but this piece.
You will and can feel thatpeople deserve that.
You know, not just me, butpeople in general.
Especially, you know, if, ifyou're, if you're, um, not in
peace because of abuse, like youdon't have to be in that.
And so it just, it wasbeautiful.
I didn't have to romanticize it.

(01:12:17):
It was real, I really feltpeace.
Yeah.
It wasn't me telling myself astory.
It was, and did that, did thatknowing of peace scare me.
'cause then it was like, allright, now I was about to get
real, real.
Now you have to, what's next?
If this feels this peaceful allthese other layers are factual,
now you actually have to uprootyour life.
You have to file the papers, youhave to do these things.

(01:12:40):
Logistical things that arestressful, that are emotionally
taxing, that are financiallytaxing, that are fist, you know?
Um, and I did, worked a lot.
I cried a lot.
I studied a lot.
I, I did a lot.
It was a lot of doing in thebeginning.

And did your ex fight, quote, fight
for the relationship?
Did he push back?
Was he like, you're making amistake, or did he accept that
you're serious and this was theright thing to do for your
family?

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:13:10):
On paper he contested twice, which,
but never really spoke about it.
Um, and instead of that, he didwhat my therapist in treatment
said he may do.
And I was like, Hmm, girl, Idon't know.
You don't know him.
Like I'm still a littledefensive

I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:13:22):
time.
And she said, you know, whenyou.
Leave him.
He may try to take the girlsfrom you.
And I was like, no,

Oh

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:13:31):
mom.
He knows I'm a good mom.
He knows who I am.
he did just that.
Um, it didn't work, obviously.
Um, but he went from like, youbaby.
I want us to work out.
When I was just like, Hey, butif we're gonna work out, you
gotta do the work.
You know,

yeah.
Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:13:49):
be.
And I'll get to that in asecond.
But I've used this, um, analogysince I had our first daughter,
and I used it with everybody,including my brothers, who I'm
really close with.
I said, I am on this little tinywooden boat with this tiny
human, I am her first and lastline of defense, Anthony, my
brother, and he's a healthyhuman.
But I said, I love you, but ifyou come over here with that

(01:14:10):
chaos, you gotta get out of theway.
I cannot risk tipping this boatover.
Like,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:14:15):
then I, you know, I'm with their dad
and we're on our little steelboat, but it's still a little
tiny boat.
You cannot tip this boat over.
I, I have to keep her safe.
So nobody, if anybody comes overhere trying to rock this boat,
you're out.
You know?
And so I, I really had to rootinto the fact of like, he's not
gonna try to get me back nowbecause I'm not backing down.

(01:14:37):
I'm not accepting your apology.
With no action.
And when I said, Hey, I'd liketo do 60 40 custody, because you
know you're still playing,you're gonna be traveling.
I have been their primary parentbecause you've been the, the
provider, which is, that's fine.
Um, claims that that's why hesaid, I'm taking full custody.
And not only did he try to takefull custody, he had a

(01:14:59):
extensive.
Thing about me that was untrue.
So I had double back and like goto go to my treatment people and
have them like show that Isuccessfully completed
treatment.
I had to have all these thingsin place, you know, and I, I was
so vulnerable and willing to sayto him, listen, I know, know
that when I was drunk and upsetat you, I called you a coward

(01:15:20):
and a liar.
I'm not proud of that.
I, I,

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025 (01:15:23):
I could have handled our
disagreements better, I don't.
I vividly remember when he toldme he was taking full, trying to
take full custody, and I triedto meet him at the park for one
last, like, Hey, have to betogether, but like, let's
pretend like we love each otherat one point for whatever we
knew love to be.
And I remember crying to himtrying to make what I thought
then was I was making anappropriate events, didn't know

(01:15:43):
what I was doing, but, um,crying to him and I was like, I
love you and.
I'm grateful for the things thatyou have done for me.
I'm grateful that you paid fortreatment.
I'm grateful that you gave methese beautiful girls.
I'm grateful that, you know,able to do X, Y, Z, but I do not
owe you my life and I will notgive it to you.
And I was

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:16:04):
dead faced about that.
And I meant it, and I mean it.
And I'm, I don't think he hasthe emotional capacity to fully
understand what I meant, but Isat in my power in that moment
of like, I have done wrong inthis.
Relationship.
I have put you in poorpositions.
I have called you names.
I have, you know, um, been meannasty and unkind.

(01:16:24):
I have, but I'm a damn good momand I don't owe you my life.

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:16:29):
to you.
You know?
So I

Right,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:16:31):
no, he did in the end when he
realized like, oh shit, Ididn't, that scare tactic didn't
work.
She

right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:16:38):
back, which now she sees me and
there's no coming back fromthat.
And they can't be seen whenthey, when they see that you see
them.
Then they just like, run.
They run amongst,

And I mean, he saw you standing in
your power like you.
Meant what you said and likethat's the refreshing part of
sobriety.
When you have that clarity andthat discernment and you decide
like, no, I mean it like I amabout what I say and I mean what
I say.
There's power there and I thinkthat can be frightening.

(01:17:11):
And it sounds like that was hislast like what you said, like
that was his last attempt tocontrol you or to.
I think it's a form of control.
Like, oh, I'm gonna take the,the last, the one thing that I
know Jasmine needs and caresmost about in this world.
Like, please, that's not gonnawork thankfully, but like,

(01:17:31):
that's what he tried to do.
And that's cowardice.
I know that you said that you,you shouldn't have called him
coward.
I cowardice.
I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:17:40):
facts well, he, um.
He wrote that, the thing hewrote was like, she went to
treatment, she's an alcoholic.
Like things that I was owning,you know, and my lawyer was
like, Jasmine and my therapistall were like, not a single
person is gonna look at somebodywho's, who recognizes they were
unhealthy and is actively tryingto get better, is gonna look at
that and go shame on her.

(01:18:01):
She doesn't deserve her kids.
They're not, you know, and Imean, I went through like going
to the girls' school and havingthe, the teachers that know me
again, I wasn't a daily lay inmy bed all day drinker.
I got drunk.
Three times a month on aSaturday.
Like, but I went to every schoolthing, you know, they always had
fresh lunches packed.
I was a very present mom.
I breasted both of'em for ayear.
So I'm like, I was, I was there,you know?

(01:18:23):
Um.
There was also a lot of pumpingand dumping, but I was there.
And so when uh, that allhappened, I, I went into like,
okay, you wanna do this?
I'm gonna go with facts.
You can say whatever you want.
You can gaslight, you canmanipulate, but I have facts.
So I went and had, I had like 30people that had been in our
lives from, from the day I methim from before him to like

(01:18:43):
times with the kids that allhad, half of those people had
relationships with our daughtersand with me, with our daughters.
Right.
Like little things.
And my lawyer was like, you'renot gonna need it.
I was like, I don't care.
I don't care.
I want it so that if it ever wasto come up, the judge is gets to
see me.
You know?
And then we had that person comeand like investigate that.
He wanted it worked.
out beautifully.
'cause she was like, best way todescribe him is he berates her.

(01:19:05):
He belittles her and hegaslights her.
And she

Wow.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02- (01:19:08):
describe Jasmine is, yeah, she goes best
way to describe Jasmine and hersituation.
She makes decisions out of feara lot of the time.
And she, when she's emotionallyregulated, chef's kiss when
she's not.
just it a little chaos, youknow?
And she's like, but Jasmineactively will take the feedback
and will do the work, and is theemotional safe space for the

(01:19:30):
kids.
And so when that all came out,he hated that lady.
She was, she was not smart, notaccredited.
She's got a

yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:19:38):
yada, yada, yada.

she.
Let me ask you, do you thinkthat, um, if this is a
hypothetical, of course, but ifyou didn't have the girls, so
you were just with your ex, doyou think you would've still
left or it would've followedthat same timeline.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025 (01:19:54):
I think it would've happened
sooner.
Um,

You think you would've left him
before

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:19:59):
yeah, I don't think sobriety

were like,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-0 (01:20:00):
sooner.

okay, I see.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:20:02):
him sooner because having them, one
put me in a position where I wasnot like financially independent
in any

Fair.
Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:20:10):
two, I, again, I was desperate for my
perfect life.
I was

Gotcha.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:20:16):
My daughters are gonna grow up with
their dad in the house.
We are gonna fix this.
You know, we're gonna, we'regonna make another baby through
these problems.
We're gonna, we're gonna justlove and love and love and we're
gonna fight and be fine andfight and be fine.
And it's, it's great.
But I got to the point also, I.
Where I remember telling himlike, you have to stop yelling
at me.
Because in all honesty, I couldbe saying, I hope you die.
Jump off a bridge.

(01:20:37):
Right?
But I'm not yelling.
I'm sitting crying.

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:20:40):
And our daughter, I'm being serious.
I'm sitting crying, and ourdaughters are witnessing this,
and you are screaming in my facethis close, blah, blah, blah.
who could be saying the worstthing of anybody's ever heard in
their lives, You are the personwho appears to be the monster
and

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:20:58):
baby.
Like I remember

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:21:00):
these things like before I was ready
to leave him.
Like as time was going on, I waslike, they love you, but they
are gonna be, they're gonnathink that you are a monster.
And that's not who I want themto think loves me, because
that's what they're gonna equatethis to.
Right?
That's what they're gonna think.
And so I remember

I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:21:15):
yeah.

You know, your kids are young at
this time, but that would be thefirst representation of what
love is for them.
Like your father is typicallythe first man that you see as
someone that loves you.
And if daddy loves mommy, andDaddy loves me, like it's easy
for that narrative to continueand that cycle to continue where
you just think that that'snormal, that's totally

(01:21:40):
normalized.
Like men that love me scream inmy face.
And obviously that's not themessaging that you want your
daughters to learn.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:21:48):
And even before, like, that just
brings me back to like beforegoing to treatment and getting
sober again.
Trying all things to makeefforts not, not ready to like
equate some of the problems tomy drinking.
I knew I had the traumas, but Iremember being like, you know,
let's separate, not divorce, notdo anything crazy, but

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:22:05):
move here, just move next door.
Even like while we navigatebecause.
This is what we do almost everyday.
You know, it's just soexhausting and it's so unhealthy
for them, you know?
And um, I definitely think, youknow, I still sometimes struggle
with sharing custody, but I alsoknow that like, when it comes

(01:22:27):
down to it, there's legalreasons and there's things that
come into play where there'sjust things that are get outta
my control.
However, I.
know when they land back herewith me like we are, this is
their home.
You know?

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:22:40):
where they can be fully.
In their bodies, in their minds,in their spirits, in their
emotions.
And we just get to navigate thattogether.
They get to human here, youknow, and like, that's

Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:22:52):
thing I could give them because had I
stayed with him and stayed analcohol, stayed an active
alcoholic, they'd have no way tobe, no place to be a human.
Maybe it would be school or theboyfriend's house, or the best

yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:23:02):
It would be everywhere, but where
they lay their head every night,and I just didn't want that to
be their lives.

yeah.
You have.
That safe haven, it's a reprievefor them like that.
Like to your point, you arehome.
And when they come home, theyknow that their mom obviously
like not to say their fatherdoesn't love them in the same
way, but like you are a healingslash healed version of self
that can pour into them and showthem like, mommy chose me.

(01:23:30):
As a woman, I chose myself and Ichoose you.
And like, I think that is justso profound.
And I grew up with mostly asingle mom and I think to her
own detriment, like she didn'tdate.
I never saw her bring any guyaround, ever.
Um, and selfishly, I, I reallyam so.

(01:23:52):
I am just so thankful that mymom chose herself and chose me.
Like she came out of a prettytoxic relationship with my dad.
And I think it gave me a reallygood baseline for like what I
deserve, like as a human, likewhat do you deserve?
And I didn't have to see my dadalso at his worst, like, you
know, like,'cause I know theyhad a toxic relationship, but I

(01:24:14):
didn't have to see that.
You know what I mean?
So I think.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:24:17):
You say that's such a beautiful
point.
You don't have to see him at hisworst'cause.
Yeah.
I love that.

Because she chose to separate.
Um, and I, I hope the same foryour daughter.
How has co-parenting be been foryou?
Sorry.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:24:29):
know, it is, and it's a constant
navigation.

Yeah, I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03 (01:24:35):
pocket of what can I control, what's
worth the energy, you know?
And I think now that we areofficially divorced, which that
took a long time, I feel eightand seven.

Okay.
Got it.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:24:47):
Yeah.
Um, I feel now.
I dunno.
I felt a lot of ease inco-parenting.
Not because it's easy, butbecause I just let it ride.
I'm, I'm an excellent grayrocker.
It took me.

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:25:02):
But I'm, I'm really, I am excellent
at it now, and I think, again,I'm so rich in my life.
I have so many moving parts thatthese, these things, these, um,
minor attacks and my characterand minor attacks on my life, I
can just actively ignore thembecause I literally have so many
beautiful, wonderful things thatcall my attention over here that
I have, you know, worked reallyhard to have in my life.

(01:25:22):
So I'm like, I don't have thecapacity for that.
And, um, you know, we haveother.
We have a mechanism in placewhere, you know, this lady who
helps us communicate.
So it's like if things aregetting where like, hey, I'm
not, I'm not hearing thatthere's a third party to go,
Hey, you

the-sober-butterfly_ (01:25:36):
Beautiful.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-202 (01:25:37):
if he can make that logical, and if
it's not actually logical, thenshe can go, Hey, you know, like
there's a, there's a voice ofreason,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:25:45):
And so that creates a lot of peace.
And you know, I am.
What I feel, and I've gottenfeedback like this from my, um,
coworkers who are therapists,some of them, and from my
therapist, I feel as though I doa good job of being honest with
our daughters while respectingthe age that they're at and the
relationship that they have withtheir father.
Because at the end of the day,part of the reason I left him

(01:26:07):
was to not taint like you, yousaid with your mom, basically
not take their image of himlike.

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:26:13):
not going to tell them that he was
the perfect, most best ever,because then I'm gaslighting
them.

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025 (01:26:19):
I have told them, Hey, mommy and
daddy weren't healthy together.
I don't just say me or I don'tjust say him.
Mommy and daddy weren't healthytogether.
So like when they would askquestions at the beginning, I
would say, that is why, youknow, um, I like will speak to
his strengths, like the goodthings about him when I share
things with them or if they say,oh, well daddy did this or his
girlfriend did this.
I'm like, oh, I love that.
Like I.
We'll, always and forever wantmore pure, good love around my

(01:26:44):
children, around anybody that Ilove.
You know?
Like I want you to be engulfedin love all the time.
What a beautiful feeling thatis.
So I always speak positively andwhen I don't,'cause I'm a human,
pockets of that.
I will then, you know.
Right my wrong by saying, Hey,mommy was wrong and I da dah,
dah, dah.
Right?
I was really upset about this orI had to navigate this, or, you

(01:27:04):
know, I will explain to them andlike they come to me.
There was moments where theywere pretty not nice to me.
Um, especially our oldestdaughter and I was really
struggling and some of it wasjust a, a test to her age.
'cause I have other friends whowere like.
I'm happily married and mydaughter still acts like that,
right?
So that gave me some comfort,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_0 (01:27:22):
recognized that she was angry at me, you
know, and, and trying to findways to express it.
And so

No.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:27:28):
one of the most beautiful, beautiful
things that has come out of,again, this perspective shift
that I've been giving insobriety.
Is that at first when I wouldhave to combat the poor things
that have been said about me in,in the other parents' households
and with other grandparents andaunts and uncles and things, it
was so devastating and I would,I would do the dance and I

(01:27:49):
would, I would be performingtrying to tell them, try trying
to tell our small children thisis, and this and that, is that
and that.
But now.
Because of the work I've doneand the relationships that I
have and the people that I'mable to get feedback from, now
am like, I look at theseconversations that I have with
my girls around some of thethings that they're struggling
with, with being in twohouseholds as like beautiful

(01:28:10):
ways to process.
Like we process.
Like, okay, you're really angryabout yeah, X, Y, Z, because one
person said this and then I'msaying this.
Let's talk about it.
You know?
Or like I've explained to themas time goes on, like.
Gonna have you, you'll be ableto have a feeling.
Does that feel true to you?
You know, and like,

Hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:28:27):
about what that looks like.
And then if you wanna see thefacts, I'm happy to share, like,
again, age appropriate things.

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:28:34):
but I'm very, I'm appropriately
transparent with them.
And I take an, I takeaccountability.
I will say, you know what,mommy, I'm not being the, I'm
not being the best mom I wannabe right now.
Like, I'm really frustrated andI'm, I used to be, um.
Back before we were officiallydivorced, any, I could be in a
great mood and then I would geta really crabby message like,

(01:28:56):
can you read?
Or, you know, you're soillogical still.
so it would still trigger me,you know, or he'd say, you're
being stupid.
And then I'd be like, stop.
Don't call me stupid.
And he'd be like, I said, you'rebeing stupid.
I'm like, oh, this is like beingmarried.
What am I doing?
You know?
Um, but stupid is a big triggerword for me.
And he knew that.
So I, I was like, I was feedingit though.
I was arguing

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:29:16):
now.
I, and that used to set me off.
So maybe I had the girls and I,then I would get short.
Then I'd be like, get in thebath, da da da.
And I'm like, why am

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:29:24):
the anger?
Had some had to go somewhere andhere I am yelling at my kids.
Like, what?
Then I become this monster thatI literally worked so hard not
to be for them in so many spacesand now I was just telling my
mom this, and one of mygirlfriends, like, I feel so
rooted in my power as their mom.
Like that had been something Iwas trying to prove for so long,

(01:29:45):
but like.
Now I just feel really rootedand grounded in it.
So I'm not triggered by hislittle nuancing attacks on me.
I just brush them off and orprovide a factual thing behind
them when one of my kids willask me, Hey, da, da, da, and I'm
like, well, here's X, Y, z.
You know, I mean, navigate ittogether.
Um, and I could give a, a, asmall example that's like,

(01:30:09):
there's room for that.
Um,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:30:12):
our oldest and this, this would seem
small unless people again.
Understand oldest, one day shecomes home and she has to get
her planner signed.
And so I say, do this lastlittle math in the morning,
right, because it's past yourbedtime.
And I said to her, I'll signyour planner in the morning.
And she goes, mommy, daddy saidyou don't have the privilege of
signing my planner anymore.
I said, he said what?

(01:30:33):
I like got her loved one.
I kind of was like, haha.
I said, um, am I your mom?
Do I feed you?
Do you live here?
Do you, you know, do I go to allyour school stuff?
I said, have you asked yourteacher?
Like, and she's like, no.
And I said, well, maybe tomorrowI'll ask her.
So now fast forward to themorning and she's finishing her
math and I go, honey, bring meyour planner so I can sign it.
And.
She just starts sobbing and I'mlike, honey, why are you crying?

(01:30:57):
What is the matter?
Daddy's going to be mad at me.
And I'm confused because yousaid you can't sign it and
Daddy's saying you can't signit.
And I, at this point, I'm, I'm,I mean, hot on the inside, but
I'm not at her.
I obviously, I got on my literalknee standing in front of her,
right in front of her frontdoor, and I said, baby, do you
know what?
gonna sign your planner becauseI am your mother and I have

(01:31:17):
every single right to sign yourplanner.
And you can tell Daddy that Isaid I was signing it.
So if daddy wants to be mad,daddy would be mad at me.
And do you understand?
I always have your back whenyou're mad.
I have your back when you're notbeing kind.
I have your back when you'rebeing a grudge advisor, which is
what I call them.
I have your back.
I always have your back ahundred percent.
anybody, for anybody withanybody.
And I said, but I'm gonna signthis planner.

(01:31:38):
You know?
And like little things, they,sometimes they wouldn't hug me
if he was around.
They would like wave by and notsay, I love you.
And I, that would so hurt me so,so bad.
then I thought like, maybe Ishould stop going to school
events when he's there and notmake them uncomfortable.
And I got

Oh.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:31:54):
that.
I know, which I'm definitely notdoing that, but I had thought
about it.
And so, you know, our daughter,our youngest wouldn't hug me one
time and I said, why wouldn'tyou give mommy a hug?
And she was like, because Daddywould've been mad'cause we
would've been late leaving theappointment.
And I'm like, okay, but

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:32:09):
it, you know?
And I'm like, these are thethings that I combat.
then I also, made it not aboutme.
I'm like, you

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03 (01:32:16):
really feel this way and I know that
they love me.
So I know when they come homeand they're stomping off and
they're getting all theirfeelings out, it's'cause I have
the capacity for them.
You know, I, I am the safeplace, so they do this here, and
I let it happen.
There's a, there's a respect,right?
We're, we're doing this fineline of like,

Of course, of course.
But the fact that they canrelease those feelings or be
their authentic selves with youis a testament to you as a
mother, right?
Because if they have to presentthemselves in a different way,
in a different light, fear or afear might be, not be the best
word, but like in response to.

(01:32:52):
Daddy's sensitivity or likedaddy's response.
I think that is telling, like Ithink you as a mom,
unfortunately, and I just wannasay like, I wanna give you the
space and grace because I canimagine how difficult that is
even though like you have thewherewithal and like you have
the emotional maturity to, tonot personalize it because you

(01:33:13):
know that your daughters careand they love you.
That still must hurt and likethat's still hard, right?
To like.
Be on the receiving end all thetime and having to be the bigger
person.
And like, I, I just wanna saylike, you're doing hard work and
I, I,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:33:28):
you.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2 (01:33:29):
I can only imagine, but like, also
it just sounds tricky tonavigate even today.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:33:37):
Yeah.
And I'm so, so grateful.
I, I will say community is.
know, I saw this video the otherday that women was like, you
guys, we, we, we all talk a lotabout community, but like
community also means sitting indiscomfort.
It means having hardconversations.
And I'm like, that is mycommunity.
They will check me in the most.
They hold me in the most firmand gentle way possible.

(01:33:57):
You know, and I can come undonein these incredibly safe spaces
with these people that'll say,Hey, that does not deserve your
energy.
Or yo that needs to change.
Like, you need to

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-20 (01:34:05):
Or, you know, and they don't say it
like that.
That's just how I'm talking.
But

No, obviously I, I get it.
I get it.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025 (01:34:10):
a lot of, um, support challenge,
and I'm so grateful for thatbecause these are the people
that care about who I am, notjust like face value or what I
have to do for them or how I canserve them.
They

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2 (01:34:23):
care about my wellbeing, which
obviously so beautifully flowsinto my kids' wellbeing, and so
I'm able to show up.
I'm able to pivot constantlybecause I, I, I've received
feedback.
whether I ask for it or not, butusually it's in, it's, it's,
it's unsolicited.
Unsolicited because they know meand I, they know like, Hey, Ja

(01:34:44):
could use a little support rightnow.
Right.

Trust

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:34:47):
yeah.
And I am so, so grateful forthat because without that, I
wouldn't be able to do this forthe next, I wouldn't be able to
do it.
Well.

11.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03- (01:34:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.

And now a quick word from our
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Okay, Jasmine, so just winding,
winding down here.
Winding down, well, winding downhere.
Um, habits die hard.
Um, I was just wondering fromyou, have you created space in
your life?
Because one of the.
Topics and questions I get askedthe most about on this podcast
is love relationships.

(01:36:41):
And it sounds like yourrelationship itself has
drastically improved.
It sounds like you've done a tonof work and are still doing said
work.
It sounds like your relationshipwith your kids has grown and
it's authentic to you and yourparenting style.
And as mentioned like youdepersonalize a lot of things
for the sake of your childrenand I feel like the ultimate,

(01:37:02):
not the ultimate form, but likea lot of parents, like that's a
part of.
Being a parent, right?
Sacrifice and like doing thingsfor the good and the benefit of
your children.
But what about Jasmine, like interms of romantic relationships,
are you open to dating?
Are you dating?
Have you healed from some of thetrauma that you've experienced
with your ex or exes in thepast?

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:37:23):
Yeah, so wait.
I am open to dating.
I am.
I, I've made attempts and I'll,I'll try for a little, and then
I just don't try at all.
Then I try for a little, um,there is somebody in my life
who's taken up some space, um,yet to like, meet my daughters,
and I don't even know if that'sgonna happen.
But I, I do enjoy his company.
I feel very safe with him.
Um, yeah.

(01:37:44):
And, uh, don't know.
I'm, I'm enjoying him, you know,for, for now.
So we'll see.

Does he honor your sobriety?
Is he I'm, I'm at like, I feellike I know the answer.
It's kind of rhetorical becauseI can tell how seriously you
take your sobriety, but he'ssomeone that understands and
respects your sobriety andrecovery.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:38:03):
I wouldn't necessarily say he
understands.
I don't think he fully like

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:38:07):
of like what it looks like and why,
right?
For anybody really.
But he does not put any pressureon me.
He respects it like, Hey, thisis something that she doesn't
do.
This is a boundary she set forherself.
Like cool.
Like he

Okay.
Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:38:19):
he's not a man of ma many, many
words, but

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:38:22):
not, um, he doesn't question if I say
This is where I'm at, this iswhat I'm doing.
He's not like, well, why don'tyou drink and da da da.
And like,

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:38:30):
why I don't drink, but he doesn't
push me about it.
He just respects

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:38:33):
So I don't think he understands.
And it's not necessarilysomething that like he needs to
fully understand'cause it's myown, my own experience.
But he respects my values and mychoices.
Um, and I will say as far as mydating has.
Has gone.
I was very intentional aboutworking on also my relationship

(01:38:54):
to sex.
Um, because I historicallyagain, wanted to be in a
relationship so I could have sexas much as I wanted.
Right.
And there's not necessarilyanything wrong with that, but
not if you're using it as a, ascapegoat for all of your
sufferings.
Um.
I took, uh, over a year of likeno sex, no dating, no
relationships.
And then, you know, I metsomebody through a friend and so

(01:39:14):
I was like, oh, okay, we'll see.
You know, and a little bit ofthat and he was so great.
But what I will say that cameout of also sobriety for me was
that I can look back on myrelationship timeline and I can
see that every man served adifferent purpose.
So like.
this guy was super serious andrigid, so this guy had to be
like super goofy and likeunhinged.

(01:39:34):
Then this guy was a drug dealerand so he was unhealthy, right?
But then he used to like this,you have to go, right, right.
I have to go to the business guynow who now is literally beating
me, but who cares?
He got a business and he looksright on paper and everybody
loves him and whatever.
then I had to go from that tolike somebody who loves me so

(01:39:54):
much and is love bombing melike.
All these men, it didn't matterhow many red flags they had, as
long as they met, they were, aslong as they didn't trigger this
thing in me.
And they, I didn't realize thisat the time, but they all were a
little bit, they were all vastlydifferent than the person before
they were serving some purpose.
If I had never laughed with you,I was gonna take somebody who
could never be serious if I hadnever been able to like, get
anything done with you and likebe, be an adult with you.

(01:40:16):
I was gonna be with somebody whohad no personality, who was
always this and alwaysstructured and so.
I've learned in my sobriety thatlike number one, it's okay if
you date him and he's not thelove of your life and you guys
don't get married and with stuffinto the sun and have another
third baby.
It's okay.

Amen.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03 (01:40:32):
Right?
And

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:40:34):
I also had to learn that.
It's okay to decide, no, I don'tlike that about you.
And then that's it.
You don't have to go explainingit.
You don't have to go trying tochange it.
You don't have to go trying tobe like, well, I like this about
him.
You don't have to start weighingyour options, like you're adding
shit to your Chipotle.
Just you don't like it.
You know?
Like it's okay.

(01:40:55):
Um, and then the last thing islike, had to really, really
accept the fact that.
I am not alone because there'ssomething functioning wrong with
me.
You know, I am alone because amdedicated and committed to
rebuilding or just even buildingmy life in the first place, and

(01:41:17):
I've never, I.
myself in the capacity that Ihave, and I'm grateful for the
time that I've had to pour intomy daughters instead of, I'm
glad I didn't find the love ofmy life six months after I left
my ex-husband, because Iwouldn't have had I, no matter
how much I love my girls and howmuch this person would've been
great, I still wouldn't havebeen able to pour into them

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:41:33):
I have been able to.
And so I I have really seriouslylearned that like I also need to
keep showing up as the womanthat I am and building things I
wanna build so I can meet aperson who I wanna, I can meet a
mirror.
You know, I don't want themirror to be this bad reflection
of me in the past.
I want it to be this reflectionof me now.
And I forget the last part thatI was gonna say.
But, um, as I've been navigatingrelationships, I have learned

(01:41:58):
that like I don't need anybodyfor

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:42:02):
I have wants and desires that I'm,
I'm now learning like how tostill do it just'cause I want
it.

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:42:07):
I don't need to, I won't.
Everything has been like a need.
'cause I've been so busy tryingto like, get my feet off the,
out of the cement.
Like I've been trying to rebuildsomething and, um, scaling'em
out.
And as my one friend would say,I'm scaling'em out with two kids
on my back.
Like, I can't afford a lot ofthings

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5 (01:42:22):
emotionally.
And so now that I've kind offeel like I've, reached a good
place and I'm ready to keepclimbing, but now I'm like, I'm
in a really beautiful place inmy life and my careers.
I would love to meet somebody,climb with them the next
mountaintop with our daughters,like hand in hand and create
something really beautiful andspecial.
And, you know, I, I've alwaysbelieved in love.

(01:42:42):
I just didn't have a clue whatit was,'cause I hadn't, none of

Right,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:42:45):
you

right.
Or I think maybe.
What you mentioned before, theversion of love that you
believed in wasn't real, likethis romanticized, idealized
version of love for the fairybooks where it's like, yeah, I'm
gonna meet my prince Charmingand sail away in, you know, into
the sunset where like therealities of life don't really.

(01:43:09):
Like lend itself to that.
And like the thing aboutfairytales truthfully is like we
don't get to see what happensafter happily ever after, right?
So it's like when, when thingsget real, life gets real.
I think that's the love that I'mseeking, where it's like, it
stands the test of time.
And for many years, going backto like conflating.

(01:43:32):
Sex and like my, my reasoning tohave sex for that connection, it
was always about like intensityversus intimacy.
And like, I was confusing thetwo, like, I was like, oh, like
everything had to be hard andfast.
Like that's just how I live mylife as well.
And now I'm seeking like trueintimacy.
And to your point, like notevery guy needs to, or every

(01:43:52):
relationship needs to fulfillthis like deep seated urge
within me.
It's like.
I can see people at face value.
That's the clar clarity thatpervades through all aspects of
my life.
Like I can see things for whatthey are and I can discern if I
want to continue seeing thisperson for who they are or move

(01:44:13):
on.
And I, I, before, I think I wasso invested in like just showing
up as a version of self that.
Someone else would like, likewhether that was true or
authentic to me or not.
Like I just wanted to be someonethat someone else chose and
liked and now I don't do that.
And like, that's what I wasthinking too when you were
sharing about like the lies thatwe tell other people.

(01:44:35):
I think the true lies, um, wereworse.
I told myself like, I can bethis version of self for other
people.
And now I'm just like, well,first of all, who are you?
Like, do the work there and thenyeah, like it's okay.
You don't have to be everyone'scup of tea.
Like not everyone needs to likeyou

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:44:55):
Yes.

okay, and I don't need to like
everyone else either.
And it's fine.
Everything's fine.
There's billions of people onthe planet.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:45:03):
Yeah.
I love, everything's fine.
The kids, everything's fine.

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:45:07):
Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2 (01:45:07):
I love this conversation so much.
one last question before you go.
what is the most integral partor peace or tool when it comes
to your sobriety?
What is something that youcannot live without, that you
feel like has?
I don't wanna say live withoutthat sounds very dra dramatic.
What is one thing, what is oneaspect?
Yes.
What is an aspect of yoursobriety?

(01:45:29):
Just something that has reallyhelped you stay grounded in this
work that you're doing onyourself.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:45:35):
Um, for me, movement has

Uh.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:45:40):
oh my gosh.
Like, I know, I see you too onsocial media.
Like I know movement for you isa lot meaningful.
Um, I.
I have to move my body.
I have to be very mindful oflike, to breathe.
'cause that was another thing Iwould realize.
Like, oh, I haven't taken abreath and I'm in there.
You know, like,

Like you can feel the, yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:46:01):
Yes.
So a lot of breathing.
Um, yoga has become reallyimportant to me because it adds
all the components.
It adds mind, body, spirit, andthe movement.
Um, so I would definitely saymovement.
And I really truly do my best tostay mindful of like.
This is not the life that youthought you'd have, but this is

(01:46:23):
the most beautiful life that youhave ever had.
You know?
And if this is as beautiful asit gets, well good, God damn.
Lucky me.
You know what I mean?
Like

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:46:32):
I try to stay in a space of
gratitude because I have noticedone of the biggest shifts for me
to help me have a healthysobriety is that.
I have to have perspectives thatare positive, you know,

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:46:45):
it all in all reflect the actual
situation.
You know, I'm notcatastrophizing, nor am I,
existing in this like super fearthat freezes me, that used to
freeze me.
And, um, I also think that thatsaying, time heals all wounds.
Like sure, that's facts, right?
But I have learned that time andwork heal all wounds.

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:47:07):
in time for the next five years and
have not done a damn thing.
I've been the same

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:47:11):
I get to stuff left him and you
know, stop drinking.
But if I just, I hate the world.
The world hates me.
I'm angry because

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:47:18):
you know, and I'm sad.
And I'm sad and you should besad too.
And Misery's

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:47:23):
and I could have remain this

Hurt people.
Hurt people.
Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:47:27):
Uh, that is like my favorite, which
is where I can find grace a lotfor the father of my children,
my ex-husband.
Like,'cause I

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:47:34):
I, I say that all the time.
Hurt people.
Hurt people and misery lovescompany whether they know it or
not.
And like all these things arevery true.
And so the biggest things arethe movement and the
perspective.
I don't do myself justice if Istart down the rabbit hole of
these negative thoughts.
So I am very mindful of like,that's not accurate, Jas.
Like, it, it can be a validfeeling in this particular

(01:47:55):
circumstance situation, but nowyou are taking the inch that
this feeling has caused you andyou're adding a mile and then
you're adding

the-sober-butterfly_ (01:48:02):
Spiraling.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:48:03):
are not for Gump.
Like, stop.

Yes.
Slow down.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:48:08):
Yeah, take the breath,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:48:09):
move

And that's where the movement comes
into play, right?
Especially when you're doing thebreathing exercises or you're
practicing yoga, or you're inyour body and you are forcing
yourself to be present in thismoment.
Because to your point, thecatastrophizing is very easy to
do.
And the next thing you know,you're in this deep hole and
it's like the sun complace,like, how do I get out of here?

(01:48:30):
How did I get here?
But it, it starts with a seedlike that one thought, which can
be true, right?
It could be.
Like if someone calls youstupid.
Yeah, of course.
I'm gonna be like, what thehell?
Like now I, I feel like I cancarry that and that can lead me
to many different places.
And then ultimately going backto gaslighting, like that's when

(01:48:51):
you start to believe it, right?
Because you've allowed thisthought to grow into something
really.
Insi, insi insidious,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:48:58):
Yeah,

and.
Um,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:49:00):
I

yeah, insidious and like untrue for
the most part.
And so, yeah, I, I relate to somuch of what you shared movement
and mindfulness, like being verycareful about what you tell
yourself,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:49:15):
Yeah.
How

um, because

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:49:16):
taco?

can control that.
How far you let the thought go.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:49:20):
I work in a space of recovery and
I teach yoga, so I

That's beautiful.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:49:23):
like these beautiful pockets, right?
But I, I, I was able torecognize, like point in my
sobriety I was struggling.
Like I was, I didn't necessarilywanna drink, but I kind of
wanted to blow up my life.
I kind of wanted to do Selena'shotel room with the boyfriend
and just start.
right.

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03 (01:49:39):
aspect I wanted to trash my house,
trash my office.
Like, just,

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03 (01:49:42):
crazy.
And, um, I had this period

By the way, I think we're
accustomed to the chaos.
Like

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-202 (01:49:48):
Oh yeah.

you lived in that mind or that like
lifestyle for so long, it'slike, whoa, everything's fine.
Like that's a problem like.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:49:56):
Well, and I had this, I was starting
to feel what I would equate toenvy for, for clients who.
Would come in and tell me theirstories and they were blowing up
their lives here and droppingbombs here.
And I was romanticizing, likesitting in the woods and getting
high for days.
And I was like, that just soundsso freeing.
Like, I mean,

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:50:15):
I know the thoughts are like what
went,

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:50:18):
I went away from the first
thought, but I had it.
And I, that was happening moreand more.
And I remember I called, um,like by sponsor and I said to
her, I am really far removed.
I'm afraid that I can't go back.
I haven't drank.
Right.
I haven't used a substance, butI'm, I'm far out, and I was
recently saying this to mybrother'cause he was going

(01:50:39):
through his own experiences andI was like, I feel like am out
on the middle at the edge of theplank.
Right.
And now like the risk is.
I jump like I'm, I, I'm, so, Iwalked myself out here now
because I'm so overwhelmed.
I'm so stressed.
I'm not moving my body, I'm nottalking to people.
I'm not sharing what's reallygoing on.
Everything's fine.

(01:50:59):
I'm going back to these thingsthat were keeping me like this,
and I'm at the plank now at theedge, and.
I don't wanna jump, I don'twanna blow my life.
I don't wanna drink.
I don't even like the thought ofalcohol.
Like,

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:51:10):
wanna do any of that, yet I'm afraid
to walk back.
You know?
I'm literally afraid that thisplank is rocky and this plank, I
mean, it's wobbly.
It's, it's in the middle of theocean.
It's bopping up and no, I'mlike, what I was saying to my
brother, I'm like, but somethingthat, and to my clients at the
office in a recovery group, Isaid.
I'm fortunate to now have theperspective of, yes, I'm on the

(01:51:30):
plank, but every time I show uptoday at the office and I treat
you with kindness and respect,that's a baby step back to my
back to the middle boat everytime.
I don't react to my children ina way that doesn't feel like the
mother I wanna be.
That's to walk closer to themiddle of the boat and in the
middle of the boat.
Community.
Our solutions and abundance

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:51:49):
are, you know, somebody that will
literally and figuratively holdme, you know,

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:51:54):
um, the music that makes you laugh
and cry are the yoga classesare, you know, the stern like,
Jasmine, what are you doing?
Like, are the reality checks?
The middle of the boat is sogreat and I'm in the middle of
the plank and yeah, it's rockyand I so can risk now.
Like, oops, I fell off the plankand that's essentially, oops, I
blew up my life.

(01:52:15):
However, I know now from, frombeing, you know, time in my, um,
recovery and like on things withmyself.
I know now the people and thethings that are on this boat.
I articulate where I'm at, ifI'm honest with myself first,
and then I'm able to share andbe, and be vulnerable and give
myself grace and give somebodyaccess to these vulnerabilities,

(01:52:38):
they're going to say, baby girl,here is a metal bar.
Hold onto this as you walk

Yeah.
Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:52:44):
know, like, so I was just like saying
to him could, I'm not frozen byfear anymore.
You know?
I'm very confident now that notonly does my relationship with
my higher power, I.
It is, it is, um, it's like arainbow.
It's, it's, it's, it's brightand it's beautiful and it's
glittery and I don't how, Ican't, I perfectly identify it
in, into a book or into a,scripture or into somebody

(01:53:05):
else's opinion, but mine isrich.
I feel mine, you know?

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:53:11):
and I'll end kind of.
S part with, back to like, whenI thought my heartbreak open, my
yoga mentor, a beautiful, youknow, also survivor, independent
woman, like, Latina, like justfed veteran.
Like this person who I just havethe, a lot of admiration and
respect for, she leads alsobeautiful meditations in yoga.
And one day she was, she did alot of heart openers and every

(01:53:33):
time I'm crying in these heartopeners and I still sometimes
do, but she's leading thisbeautiful meditation and she's
like, you know.
There's this little, you know,flower inside of Russell and you
know, we have to open our heartsand like with that flower and
let it grow.
And it came over me and I likecame outta the meditation.
I just went immediately to myjournal and I'm crying and I'm
like, my whole life, my hearthas been breaking as a little

(01:53:55):
girl, being sexually abused.
You know, growing up inviolence, being in the womb, and
my mom experiencing like.
Being beaten, you know, andworking several jobs and being
poor.
Like, all of my, my life, myheart has been like little
cracks in it and I just keepsewing, you know?
Or like maybe the nicebabysitter sos or the boyfriend
who tried to help me sews, orthe stranger, the Jehovahs
Witness I met when I was blackedout, when I was 20 sos.

(01:54:17):
You know, like

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025 (01:54:19):
I kept trying to sew it, her eat
back together, like because shecan't break open.
She's too fragile, you know, orit's dangerous.

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-20 (01:54:26):
And after my experience in treatment
and feeling it break open, youknow that little flower that had
been in there this entire time,this little beautiful bud, I
just kept sewing it back inthere.
I didn't give it an opportunityto grow, to blossom.
And now it's like.
This whole time in sobriety, Ihave been so, so, so
beautifully, gracefully.

(01:54:47):
Oh, just like lovingly.
Strong hold, like held togetherby incredible women in my life.
And so like I visually can seethese women just like holding
this heart up of mine as I'vebeen slowly sewing it back
together.
And as I'm slowly sewing, theflower has blossomed and more
flowers have blossomed.
And I feel like, wow, you are soalive and well.

(01:55:10):
Because to be alive is onething, and then to be well is a
whole other entity of

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2 (01:55:14):
that works, right?
And so recognizing that itdoesn't make me feel like.
these broken parts, all thistrial and error, it makes me
feel like I had to go throughthese experiences so that the
flowers that came out of myheart that I kept on trying to
hurry and keep these little budssmall and, unimportant to me.
I had to break open.
They had to fully blossom.

(01:55:36):
And now I always have thatlittle opening where they've
made space, but.
Beautiful.
More for love and light to pourin, you know, but that
meditation again gave me theperspective shift that I needed,
which is why I value being inspaces where people.
Have the capacity to not onlyhold space, but create space
containers to be safe spaces forpeople, which is why I value

(01:55:58):
that so much in who I am, how Ishow up to people.
But that is something I learnedfrom my community.
I didn't learn that growing upas a child.
I didn't learn that inherently.
I think I inherently am anurturer and empath, but I
didn't learn what to do withthose things, you know?

That is so beautiful.
Like, literally having chills.
Jasmine, um, thank you so muchfor sharing your message and
speaking of light and holdingspace.
Like I've learned so much fromyou and I feel like you have so
much to share and so much valueto bring to folks at home.
So thank you for coming ontoday.
If someone wants to connect withyou, I know that you are a yoga

(01:56:35):
instructor, I know that you workin recovery as mentioned, so can
you let people know at home ifthey wanna connect with jazz,
how can they find you?

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:56:45):
Okay.
I love that.
Um, so I have social media.
Um, I'm not so good on likebusiness things, which I'm
working on y'all.
but my social media, I have itin my Insta and you can always
pop a message over there withme.
Um, my Insta is shanae dotjasmine, and it's, uh,
C-H-A-N-A-E, period, Jasmine,J-A-S-M-I-N-E.
And I have also, a business pagecalled Renewed Life.

(01:57:08):
And that whole, concept behindthis page, it's there, it's
mine, but I haven't.
I haven't loved on it enoughyet.
is just gonna be kind of anencompassing of all of these
beautiful ingredients that I'vebuilt, this like healthier life
in, and it's renewed like RE andthen the word nude

Okay.
I'm gonna drop all of that inthe show notes for folks at home
to find you easily.
Yeah, like I'll just make iteasy.
Um, I'll put it in the shownotes.
Thank you so much, Jasmine, andlike I said, like you've been
such an inspiration.
Your story is so beautiful and Iconnected so much to everything
that you've shared.
So thank you for coming on TheSober Butterfly, and you're
welcome anytime like truly,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03- (01:57:49):
Thank you, Nadine.
I loved it.
It was an honor and my pleasureand very fun.
So it was cool.
Thank you.
I appreciate you.

Wow.
I mean, what an incredibly rawand powerful conversation with
Jasmine.
Her story is a reminder thathealing isn't linear, but it is
possible from her, you know,early struggles with alcohol to
the pivotal moment when sherealized.
She was in an abusiverelationship.
And a few key takeaways fromtoday's episode.

(01:58:19):
I think trauma doesn't justdisappear.
It follows you into adulthoodunless you actively work through
it.
Another key takeaway for me waseven if life looks perfect on
the outside.
You never know what someone isgoing through behind closed
doors, Jasmine also reminded usthat clarity is everything.
Therapy and sobriety gaveJasmine and me the strength to

(01:58:42):
step away from toxicity andrebuild a life that we truly
deserve.
And then lastly, healing isabout reclaiming yourself.
Your needs, your boundaries, andyour joy.
If this episode resonated withyou, please take a moment to
rate, review, and share theSober Butterfly Podcast.

(01:59:03):
Your support helps us reach morewomen and more people who need
these conversations.
Don't forget to follow the showso that you never miss an
episode.
And before you go, I just wantto plug our book of the Month
for March, which is Women WhoRun With the Wolves.
This is by Clarissa Pin Estes,and this book is all about

(01:59:24):
tapping into your wild,intuitive, feminine energy.
You know that powerful self thatlives within us, which I think
is so fitting for Women'sHistory Month.
So make sure you grab your copyusing the link in the show
notes.
Thank you all for being here,for listening and for showing
up.
For yourself.

(01:59:44):
I love you butterflies.
Stay safe, stay sober, and staybeautiful.
I'll see you next Friday.
Bye.

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