June 6, 2025 • 38 mins
In this solo episode of The Sober Butterfly Podcast, host Nadine gets brutally honest about what happens after the drinking stops.
Titled “Sober, But Still Toxic? A Journey in Progress,” this episode unpacks the not-so-glamorous truth that sobriety alone doesn’t automatically make you emotionally healthy. Nadine reflects on how, even after years alcohol-free, she still caught herself being petty, judgmental, controlling, and stuck in people-pleasing patterns.
Nadine dives deep into:
- Why recovery is not a personality makeover
- How therapy and inner child work exposed the roots of her behavior
- The myth of perfection in sobriety
- Setting real boundaries (without needing a drink to enforce them)
- How “petty” can still show up—and how to lovingly call yourself out
Nadine shares personal stories, moments of growth, and reminders that healing isn’t linear.
Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or somewhere in between, this episode will speak to the part of you doing the work while still figuring it all out.
📚 Resources Mentioned:
- Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown
- Embracing All Parts of You ft. Kezia from The Sober Elephant Chronicle
💬 Join the Conversation:
Have you noticed your own toxic traits post-sobriety? Share your story or tag @the.soberbutterfly on Instagram!
🎧 Listen + Subscribe:
Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and wherever you get your podcasts.
📢 Don’t forget to rate + review the show if it resonates with you! Your support helps the sober community grow. 🦋
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services refereed to in this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
the-sober-butterfly_3_06-04- (00:00):
so I stopped drinking.
I started journaling, and I evenbought crystals, and yet,
somehow I still had the urge totext my ex just to make a point.
Sobriety cleaned up my habits,but it didn't magically scrub
away my inner saboteur.
If you've ever looked in themirror after months or even
years of being alcohol free andthought, wait, am I.
(00:24):
Still a little messy.
Am I the problem.
This episode is for you todaywe're talking about the site of
sobriety that doesn't alwaysmake it to Instagram.
You know, the petty,perfectionist, people pleasing,
judgmental stuff that stillshows up even without a drink in
hand.
the-sober-butterfly_4_06-0 (00:43):
This episode is called Sober, but
still toxic, A Journey inProgress, because that's exactly
what it is.
Not a destination, but ajourney.
A messy, humbling, but totallyworth it journey.
So grab your favoritenon-alcoholic bevy, and let's
get into it.
(01:03):
hello.
Hello, beautiful butterflies andwelcome back to the Sober
Butterfly Podcast.
I am your host, Nadine, andtoday's episode we're talking
about that awkward in-betweenstage of sobriety where the
liquor is gone, the hangovershave stopped, and you start to
realize you're still kind oftoxic.
(01:24):
Like, why am I still this pettyif I'm not even drunk anymore?
the-sober-butterfly_5_06-04-2 (01:29):
I wanted to make this episode
because I realized somethingkind of shocking.
More recently actually.
So I've been sober for overthree years, coming up to four,
oh my God, four years next monthin July.
And while so much in my life haschanged, there are still parts
of me that show up with oldpatterns, and I used to think
(01:50):
that once I quit drinking, I'dbecome this enlightened version
of self.
I want you to.
Think about Maslow's hierarchy.
I am at the peak.
Okay.
I thought I would be thisself-actualize goddess.
Zen, healed, glowing, and do notget me wrong.
Sobriety has given me so much.
(02:10):
It's given me clarity, peace,purpose, but it also took away
one of my favorite distractions.
No.
Let me walk that back.
My favorite distraction wasnumbing out.
Now I have to sit with myfeelings and sometimes I don't.
Like, if I'm being honest, Idon't like what I find.
so this episode.
(02:30):
Will help you pull back thecurtain on what sobriety has
actually revealed and spoiler.
It's not always pretty, but itis honest and hopefully
relatable.
In this episode, we'll begetting into things like therapy
breakthroughs, inner child work,petty thoughts I've had even
while sober And how being soberdoesn't mean you are done doing
(02:53):
the work.
In fact, it's probably just thebeginning.
the-sober-butterfly_6_06-0 (03:01):
When I first got sober back in 2021,
I thought the hardest part wasbehind me.
And everything in life wouldjust be easier.
No more tequila tantrums, nomore blackout apologies.
I just figured I would glow upspiritually and emotionally.
With 90 days, I was expectingthat girl.
(03:24):
Cue soft lighting, dailyjournaling.
Loving everyone's IG post.
Completely false.
That narrative was so incorrect.
Instead, I got annoyed, I gotangry, I got judgmental.
I started noticing all the shitI used to drink to ignore, like
(03:46):
how I would have to win everyargument or how irritated I
would get when someone walksslowly in front of me, I can't
help it.
I'm an Aries guys.
And I remember in earlysobriety, when I say early
sobriety, I'm thinking quiteliterally the first 90 days,
those first three months wheneverything is raw and fresh.
(04:07):
And interestingly enough,getting sober.
I got connected to sober folksonline.
That was my initial point ofcontact with the sober world.
I've talked about this on thepodcast before, like I didn't
know anyone IRL in real lifethat was sober.
So I was seeking.
(04:29):
Community connection.
Representation in the soberworld.
And so Instagram became thatplace for me.
And I remember following all ofthese different sober accounts,
and a lot of them wouldreference the pink cloud effect.
And pink clouding is basicallywhere you see life through rose
colored goggles.
(04:49):
Everything is butterflies andrainbows and cupcakes, and it's
a sense of euphoria that I quiteliterally could not relate to.
You know, everyone's talkingabout how amazing it feels to
get sober.
And I, in those first three-ishmonths, was probably the most
angry I've ever been in my life.
Like I was just steaming andanything would set me off and
(05:13):
actually.
Now that I really think aboutit, it was more than three
months.
I would say it was like six-ishmonths for me to like get a grip
on my emotions because feelingwas a foreign concept to me.
Like I.
What do you mean?
I'm gonna sit throughdiscomfort?
Like how does that work?
So anything would basically setme off and I was so sensitive
(05:37):
and I was crying and I wasbasically acting out of
character for me.
And I distinctly remember thisone time, I was probably like
four months in sitting in awomen's meeting.
It was an online AA women'smeeting, and I would go
faithfully twice a week,Wednesdays and Sundays.
And that group was incredible.
(05:59):
It was like my first taste ofwhat it was like to be in
recovery and as someone who wasgoing to these meetings.
Religiously at the time, I gotto know the women quite well and
there was this one girl in themeeting.
She was always the first toshare, and it took me some time
to work up the courage to evenshare.
So I was mostly listening inthese meetings.
(06:20):
But this one girl in particular,was always eager to share and
was always talking about thesame issue, and I'm not going to
get into it, it's not reallyrelevant.
And also I wanna uphold thetradition of anonymity.
So even though you don't knowthis woman, just know that she
was in this meeting, it wouldalways share and cry.
(06:40):
And one time she was crying and.
I remember having like this outof body experience where like
objectively I could see this wassomething really beautiful.
This was a vulnerable moment forher, and while I could see that
from the outside, I was justsitting in that meeting thinking
to myself, ugh, like not heragain.
(07:04):
Yeah, that was me sober, butsilently shady.
And that's when I realized justbecause I stopped drinking
doesn't mean that I'm done withthe emotional work.
I'd only removed the numbingeffect.
the-sober-butterfly_7_06-0 (07:19):
Fast forward another few months, and
a year into my sobriety, Istarted this podcast And my
intentions for starting thispodcast have always been around
storytelling and sharing, andreally offering as much
transparency and honesty aspossible, especially as a woman,
a woman of color, a black womanwho felt as though the
(07:40):
visibility still wasn't asapparent.
It's just interesting, you know,in starting this podcast and
reflecting back, one of thefirst interviews I ever did was
with Ketia and Kaia.
Is a sober influencer.
She's an amazing woman.
Her episode is incredible.
I will link it in the show notesfor reference and it's still
(08:03):
very relevant, but she was thefirst person that like planted
the seed for me around this ideathat there are still sick people
in sobriety, there are stillsick people in recovery.
And she made that very clearthat just because, you know,
you're connecting with thesepeople online or even in real
life and they are sober, itdoesn't mean that they are
these, you know, optimizedversions of self enlightened
(08:26):
babes.
It's simply the fact that theyare abstaining from alcohol.
And I've also touched on thesubject of being a dry drunk.
And what that means in AA islike, you are not drinking,
you're dry, but you haven't doneany of the spiritual work or
emotional work that it reallytakes according to members of AA
to maintain sobriety and a bigpart of.
(08:50):
What I connect to in terms ofphilosophies related to AA and
their guiding principlesservice, right?
So.
Without realizing it, I startedthis podcast because I wanted to
be of service and it hasconsistently been this way for
me to stay grounded in mysobriety and offer inspiration
(09:10):
and help to other people.
Um, so that feels good.
But when she said that, whenKaia was like, yeah, there are
still sick people in sobriety.
I had this almost like visceralreaction where I'm like, oh, it
is that me.
Like, is she talking about me?
And she wasn't, she wasn't beingmessy and talking about me.
(09:32):
It was, it was related to ourconversation, but I had that
moment where I was like, Hmm,like maybe this is a sign that I
could and should be doing alittle bit more work.
You know, having that year undermy belt, you start to feel
confident, like, yeah, like Ifinally am no longer angry and
sensitive and crying all thetime, so this is good.
I'm good.
I don't need to do any more workwith my sobriety.
(09:54):
But the reality is, whether ornot it's connected directly to
my sobriety, there's always workto be done when it comes to
personal development and growth,whether that be along spiritual
lines or emotional relationshipsor interpersonal relations, it
doesn't matter.
Like I can always grow.
And so she was the first personthat made that abundantly clear
(10:14):
to me, like, just because youare sober does not mean that you
are still not sick.
It does not mean that you arestill not suffering.
It does not mean that you haveno work left to be done.
the-sober-butterfly_8_06- (10:24):
Okay, so now I wanna get a little bit
more granular and talk aboutsome of the ways, the insidious
ways in which some toxictendencies can still show up in
sobriety.
And I've compiled a list, andthese tendencies, these
behaviors are things that I haveconsistently struggled with.
(10:47):
Even in my sobriety, I wouldactually take that back and say,
especially in my sobriety,because as mentioned, I'm just
more hyper aware of how I feelbecause I'm not numbing.
And if you are thinking toyourself, Nadine, I don't have
any toxic tendencies anymore.
Good for you.
You get a cookie.
(11:08):
But my hope is, you know, maybein me sharing some of these
truths with you, you may be ableto see or recognize within
yourself some tendencies thatmay lay dormant at times or may
flare up, or you know, things orareas in your life in which you
can still grow and improvebecause it's progress, not
perfection.
(11:28):
So I'm gonna share this listwith you, and if any of these
resonate, let me know.
Okay.
the-sober-butterfly_9_06-04-2 (11:35):
I wanna kickstart this list with a
topic that we have devoted anentire episode to here at the
Sober Butterfly Podcast.
In connection with Salt RiverTherapy.
So the episode that we recentlyaired with Alexandria Atkinson
from Salt River Therapy wascentered all around people
pleasing and I admittedly havealways been a people pleaser.
(11:57):
And I like to sometimes say I ama reformed people pleaser, but
that is not accurate.
It is something that I activelystrive to work on.
And I have to keep at theforefront because it's my
default nature.
Like I aim to please, what can Isay?
But here's the thing aboutpeople pleasing.
I don't even think we touched onthis in that episode, but I had
(12:18):
a thought.
I was like, people pleasing.
It is toxic.
Um, and it's not because we, asthe people pleasers, are being
taken advantage of.
It's actually, if you thinkabout it, people pleasing, is
manipulation and a cute outfitbecause I used to think that my
people pleasing tendenciesalways connected to me being
(12:39):
like the nice girl.
Even back to like adolescence,like I'm talking, being six,
seven years old, some of myearliest formative memories
involved me giving away my toysto quote friends.
Because they were like, oh, Ilike your Barbie.
And I'm like, oh, you can haveit, and then obviously my mom
(13:00):
being like, what the hell areyou doing, giving away your
toys?
Like, I worked for that anyway.
I used to think that, you know,I was just being a nice, good
little girl, but it turns out Iwas fake nice.
And the fakeness here.
It is not always intentional,like I wanna be a fake person.
I certainly, as a 6-year-old,didn't wanna be fake when I was
(13:22):
giving my friend my Barbie, butit's fake nice because it didn't
feel good, right?
It didn't feel good.
When I gave away this brand newBarbie that my mom just bought
me, simply put, it was me tryingto avoid conflict and gain
approval.
I was not setting boundaries atsix and fast forward almost 30
(13:43):
years.
Ow, that sounds crazy.
I still am working on settingboundaries.
The only difference between6-year-old me and 34-year-old me
is I now see clearly that mypeople pleasing.
I.
Wasn't about setting boundaries,it was about me managing
(14:04):
people's emotions for them.
And that's why I think peoplepleasing is a form of
manipulation.
How dare I try to manipulate howyou feel about me?
Why can't I just show up as myauthentic self?
And you appreciate that.
How dare I try on a persona oract out of character?, Just to
(14:28):
get your approval.
So sobriety has helped merealize how much of that was
about fear, sobriety andtherapy.
Fear of rejection, fear of notbeing, quote, the good girl and
that fear has not been removedsimply because I stopped
drinking that fear.
If anything is more pervasive,but it's helping me.
(14:52):
I.
Name, the discomfort, I have thelanguage and tools now to
properly articulate what liesbeneath the surface.
I.
Why I'm choosing two people,please.
And like I said, a, a big partof that is fear.
In that episode with Alex that Imentioned, we get into
attachment theory and I am aquintessential, anxious
(15:15):
attachment girly over here.
So I, you know, don't likefeeling as though other people
are going to reject me or leaveme.
And so.
I have had to reframe, or I'mstill working on reframing.
Why me upholding a boundary orme saying no, or me acting in
(15:40):
accordance to my desires and myvalues would not make me a good
girl.
the-sober-butterfly_10_06-04 (15:46):
so I'm still unpacking my people
pleasing, but I really dobelieve the root calls comes
down to fear.
Fear of rejection, fear ofisolation, fear of being
unloved, feeling as though Ihave to earn people's love and
acceptance.
I will also actually get intothat a little bit later in the
episode, but yeah, I am sittingwith that discomfort of
(16:11):
upholding my boundaries and notalways being a people pleaser
without reaching for a drink orbeing a doormat.
the-sober-butterfly_11_06-0 (16:19):
I'm gonna say something butterflies,
and they need y'all not to judgeme, but petty, petty is a love
language.
It is my love language.
Sober me still rolls her eyesand lowercase.
I still screenshot Instagramstories.
I may still throw some shadehonestly, I think I could win a
(16:40):
Pulitzer for vibes basedsub-tweeting and don't lie,
because I know that some ofy'all do this too.
If you've ever just typed theletter K and think I'm better
than you.
Okay, same.
Here's the thing though, beforesobriety that pettiness had a
(17:00):
hazy filter I would get tipsyand go full FBI agent on someone
else's social media or spiralinto like a 3:00 AM text rant.
And I won't lie sober.
Me may still spiral at 3:00 AMand draft a lengthy paragraph,
but I'm not hitting send.
(17:22):
Okay.
I have a little bit morediscretion now that I'm sober.
The pettiness is, you know, likeI mentioned, still there, but
it's less crisp, you know, it'sless high definition.
It's also educational becauseevery time I get the urge to
(17:44):
like clap back in a group chator send a one word reply like.
I don't know, like interesting.
These are all triggers for me.
So if I send you a text thatsays, interesting, I know what
I'm doing.
Just so you know, if you send mesomething and I just say,
entrusting, yeah, I'm beingpetty.
So I have to ask myself, youknow, what is really underneath
(18:06):
this?
Even going back to peoplepleasing as mentioned before,
like fear is driving a lot of mypeople pleasing tendencies.
What's underneath my pettiness?
Maybe I'm feeling left out,insecure, I don't know, unseen.
It is one of those feelings thatI have to put a name to, and
(18:27):
that's where journaling comes infor me.
That is why I journal, to makesense of my feelings, my
emotions, and try and name them.
And just a quick side tip foryou, like a little pro tip, if
you are someone who struggles toname or place your emotions like
me, I want you to Google anemotional wheel and it might
(18:51):
seem elementary.
But an emotional will truly is agreat resource for better
understanding your emotions.
Because I have had so manydiscussions on this podcast and
in the real world, around peoplenot probably being able to
understand their emotions ormaybe there's a sense of
uncertainty around what you'refeeling in certain situations.
(19:12):
And especially in early, earlysobriety.
like you do need to be able to.
Increase your emotionalvocabulary and I find the
emotional wheel allows people tovisually pinpoint what that
specific feeling is.
And you can just go through thewords and try and figure out
which ones resonate the mostwith you at any given time.
(19:34):
And if you can't find a wordthat fits, that's also good
information.
It could be a combination ofthings, but I've seen people
gain a better understandingimmediately after finding the
correct word for labeling whatthey felt.
So hopefully you can do the samewhen you use it.
the-sober-butterfly_12_ (19:52):
Another amazing resource for you guys to
check out.
Brene Brown wrote a book calledAtlas of the Heart, mapping
Meaningful Connection in theLanguage of Human Experience.
This book is Chef's Kiss.
Truly changed my life in the wayin which I.
Understand why it's actuallyreally important to distinguish
(20:15):
your emotions and even likemisconceptions in standard
English.
Vernacular, right?
Like she defines jealousy andenvy.
That was one that I'm justthinking of that stood out to
me.
Like most people will say oh,I'm so jealous in this
lighthearted way.
If someone says, for example,like, oh, I am going to Europe
(20:39):
for the summer, oh, I'm sojealous.
In actuality what we mean is.
I'm so envious, but like theconnotation behind envy is
misconstrued.
And so people think that if youwere to say like, I'm so
envious.
It has more of a negativeassociation, but the reality is
envy the way she defines it.
I'm actually gonna pull it upfor us.
(20:59):
Envy is when we want somethingthat someone else has, while
jealousy actually Arises fromthe fear of losing something
that we already have.
So basically, envy is focused onthe desire for someone else's
possessions or achievements.
While jealousy is rooted in thefear of losing something like a
relationship or being a part ofa valued relationship.
(21:21):
so going back to that example ofsomeone telling you they're
going to Europe for the summer,and you're like, oh, I'm so
jealous.
I wish I was going like thatperson going to Europe has no
impact on your life.
It's, it serves no threat.
You're not worried that you'regoing to lose'em or you are
gonna lose the opportunity to goto Europe because they're going.
The reality is you're longingfor that trip, that possession,
(21:46):
that achievement or that status.
And so it just really helped memake sense of.
The emotions and experiencesthat define what it means to be
human.
And she helps walk us through anew framework for cultivating
more meaningful connections.
So yeah, love that book.
I will also link that in theshow notes for you.
I mean, I love Brene Brown, butthis book was one of my
(22:08):
favorites by her.
So you wanna check that out too,even if you are great at placing
your emotions, I feel like thisis just an extension for you to
gain an even further, deeper,profound understanding.
the-sober-butterfly_13_ (22:19):
anyway, I digress back to being petty In
conclusion, sober me isn't anyless petty.
Uh, I mean, like I'm a, I thinkI'm a little less petty, but
she's just more aware where it'scoming from.
Sometimes it's my inner teenagerwanting to be liked.
Like if everyone's talking crapabout someone else or gossiping,
(22:42):
like if I join in, that to mefeels like pettiness.
'cause it's like, why do I evencare what this other person is
doing or how they live theirlife.
Like normally I don't care aboutstuff like that, but I might do
it to fit in for that socialacceptance.
So that's an example of, beingpetty in the name of like a
contrived connection withsomeone else.
Sometimes it's the part of methat is scared to be vulnerable,
(23:04):
so instead she chooses sarcasmover softness.
Sidebar.
I am overly wary of supersarcastic people.
Like, don't get me wrong.
Born Brit over here.
I love my dry humor, but I like,I'm thinking actually I'm
triggered.
I'm thinking about this guy thatlike was so sarcastic that I
used to date and every word thatcame out his mouth was like
(23:27):
this.
Just, I don't know, sarcasm.
I'd be like, oh, it's a prettyday.
Oh yeah, you would think it's apretty day.
Like that's a terrible example.
But like that was just how hewas.
And I'm just overly wary ofsuper sarcastic people because
I'm like, what are you reallytrying to say?
Like there's somethingunderneath that sense of sarcasm
usually I find anyway.
(23:49):
So.
Me just trying to figure out whyI might default to humor, over
like softness.
And sometimes I think it's me.
I.
Acting wild.
I still feel drawn like a mothto the flame to chaos at times.
I recently wrote in my noteapps, I wanna blow up my life.
(24:09):
No, I actually don't wanna blowup my life.
But I, I sometimes get in thatsense of like.
Thinking back to what mytherapist said, when you're
bored, you are dangerous.
She always says, Nadine, whenyou are bored, you are
dangerous.
And so sometimes I'm like, yeah,like am I just doing it for the
plot I don't wanna shame thatpart of myself anymore, that
petty part of me.
(24:30):
I just wanna keep her in checkin line.
I want to clock the sheet beforeI press share and because I love
you and we're friends, I amalways gonna keep it real with
you.
I might still post things thathave an undercurrent of shade,
but I do it with intentionbecause petty, when wielded
(24:54):
responsibly can actually be aform of self-expression.
It's growth with a side of K.
the-sober-butterfly_1 (25:01):
Alrighty.
So the last toxic trait that Iwanna talk about that I still.
Work on in my sobriety isjudgment.
Sober.
People don't judge.
Sober people don't judge.
I mean, how many times have Isaid that myself?
I'm not judging what's in yourcup.
Yes, we are.
I am actively working on this.
(25:23):
Please don't judge me for being.
Honest about being judgy attimes.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Like mostly I don't care what'sin people's cup like at this
stage in my sobriety.
But let me tell you in thebeginning, going back to that
first year and change ofsobriety, I was heavily judging
and don't be drunk around me.
Heavens forbid you are tipsy oryou've drank too much around me
(25:46):
Because I was looking down onanyone who still drank.
Like girl, you were justdrinking heni out of a shoe in
Tulum last year.
Okay, relax.
That may or may not be a truestory anyway.
I had to check myself becausesobriety is not a competition.
the-sober-butterfly_15_06-0 (26:02):
and this is probably the toxic trait
that I've improved the most on,is the judgy part, because
sometimes we swing too hard.
I find in the other direction.
I'm an extremist by nature.
We go from messy to Messiah inlike under 90 days, and suddenly
I was side eyeing mygirlfriend's.
(26:22):
Ordering bottomless brunchmimosas, like I hadn't been the
blackout brunch queen.
or I'd hear like a friend ventabout hangover and think, well,
maybe if you stop drinking andgot your life together, you
know, those were like thethoughts that I had.
Inner thoughts, like I wouldn'tactually say that out loud and
(26:43):
it's like, excuse me.
Who invited Ms.
Holier than thou to the groupchat?
And it doesn't feel good to bejudgy.
I I really did have to checkmyself because sobriety is not a
competition, it is not a highermoral ground.
It is not, you know, a GirlScout badge.
It is a choice.
A deeply personal one, andjudging people from not making
(27:06):
the same choice I did is stilltoxic.
And honestly, it was a way forme to make myself feel superior.
And now that I have moreperspective and sober time, I
can see that I was usingjudgment as a way to make myself
feel superior while I was stillstruggling.
I was super raw as mentioned.
(27:27):
I was uncomfortable, I wasscared I wouldn't be able to
maintain my sobriety.
So judging other people becamesort of like a, um, an emotional
support blanket.
But that's not community andthat's not compassion and that's
not gonna help someone who isactually struggling.
That's just another way.
That I get to hide.
(27:49):
Hide behind an insecurity.
And so with time I began torealize that being sober does
not mean that I have evolvedpast being human.
Human first over here, soberhuman first, hope human sober
first.
It doesn't mean that I am, youknow.
Immune to petty thoughts, baddays or side, eyeing other
(28:12):
people's choices.
It just means I notice thingsmore, you know, sobriety equals
clarity.
I can sit with things, sit withthat discomfort.
I can ask myself, well, why doyou care so much?
I feel like if you were judgingother people, you care.
So why do I care?
Why does their drink feel likeit's my issue or my problem?
(28:35):
And often the answer is it'snot.
It just isn't.
So now when I feel that judgmentcreep in.
I try to redirect it intogetting curious or finding
compassion.
I have to remind myselfconsistently that everyone is on
their own timeline.
I still have friends who drink.
(28:56):
I still have friends who we rollwith you.
I think maybe drinking too muchand you know, part of me as a
sober person is like, okay, I, Isee some remnants of my drinking
history.
These people's experiences, andI don't wanna sound preachy, but
I always remind people that I'mhere, I'm an open book.
If you ever wanna talk to me, Ican be here in any capacity that
(29:21):
you need me to be.
Just know that everyone's storylooks different and we don't
have to be on the same chapter.
And it doesn't mean that if youare misaligned in your lifestyle
choices, that your story isbetter than someone else's, or
that they're not writing theirown beautiful story.
So honestly, my judgment saidmore about me than ever did
(29:45):
about them.
And it just reminds me of likethat nursery rhyme.
It's not a nursery rhyme, girl.
What am I talking about?
Like, you know, I would say itlike in elementary, middle
school, like, oh, when you pointthe finger at someone else,
three fingers point back at you.
how relevant is that here?
Right When we're.
Busy looking over there, it'slike maybe you should be looking
(30:06):
in the mirror.
Maybe you should be focused onyourself.
The inverse can be true as wellfor people who are judging our
sobriety, right?
Our choices to not drink.
maybe it's a reflection of howthey feel about their
relationship with alcohol.
judgment in any form is usuallyless about the other person and
more about you.
the-sober-butterfly_16_06-0 (30:26):
You know what nobody tells you when
you get sober.
That putting down the drink isthe easy part, the real fun.
Begins or the real detox happenswhen you can't numb anymore and
when you have to sit withyourself.
We've talked about this, that'swhere therapy came in.
(30:47):
For me.
It was like this, um, quietplace where the BS couldn't hide
and it's no secret on this showthat I got sober thanks to
therapy and willingness ofcourse.
But around six months into mytherapy, my weekly therapy
sessions, I ugly, cried, and Imet the root of my toxicity.
(31:12):
She was a 6-year-old with herhair and plats or braids and you
know, always trying to smile,always trying to please so she
wouldn't be left behind.
And that was the moment Irealized my rage when someone
doesn't text back or.
Give me the attention, I think Iwant and deserve my inability to
(31:37):
ask for help.
It was all rooted in fear.
Fear of being forgotten, fear ofbeing unlovable, fear of losing
control.
Because somewhere along the wayI learned that control was safer
than closeness.
And I remember one time intherapy, my therapist asked me,
she's like, when did you learnthat love has to be earned and
(31:59):
butterflies?
That question sat in my chestlike a rock, because the truth
is, I don't remember everlearning that.
I just always sort of knew it.
I guess it was just baked intothe dynamics of my childhood,
especially related to my father.
Be the good girl.
(32:20):
Don't need too much.
If you're easy to love, you'llstay loved.
And that belief followed me intoadulthood and straight to the
bar.
When I drank, I became someonewho could be funny and chill and
flirty and outgoing.
I could pretend I wasn't scaredanymore.
(32:43):
I could perform worthinessinstead of actually healing the
parts of myself that never feltworthy to begin with.
So yeah, sobriety didn't fixthat.
Sobriety exposed it and suddenlyI didn't have alcohol to quiet
those old voices and I couldn'tgaslight myself with, I'm fine,
(33:05):
I'm okay anymore.
And that's actually when thereal work started.
That's when I started to askmyself, what do I actually
believe about love?
What do I actually believe aboutrest?
As someone who's restless safetyboundaries and about who I have
to be to feel accepted intherapy?
(33:26):
I've done a lot of inner childwork, which isn't cute.
It's not the cute Pinteresthealing version.
It is.
Truly sitting with the versionof self that you tried to
outrun, excavating parts of yourpast and parts of yourself that
lay dormant.
It's saying, Hey, I see you andyou were never too much and you
(33:50):
didn't have to earn love ever.
And that shit is the real detox.
You don't unlearn decades ofsurvival.
Mode.
In a month of therapy or from ayear of sobriety.
But you can begin to starttreating yourself like someone
who's worth healing.
(34:12):
And it's not because you'resober.
It's not because you're perfect.
It is because you are human.
And that butterflies is enough.
I wanna ask you a question.
What did you learn about lovegrowing up and is that still
serving you today?
the-sober-butterfly_17_06-04 (34:30):
as we wind down, one of the biggest
changes in sobriety is that Ican see myself now a lot
clearer.
I can clock when I'm spiraling.
I can notice when I'm performinginstead of just being, I can
pause when I want to be petty.
There was actually a momentrecently where a friend didn't
invite me to something.
(34:52):
And I started typing this likereally long, dramatic text.
I even had some like clap emojisin there, but then I stopped and
I was like, you know, I had tolike pause and ask myself, why
am I doing this?
Like, why am I texting her?
Like, what am I actuallyfeeling?
And it turns out using theemotions wheel, I was just hurt.
(35:17):
I felt excluded, and that is nottheir fault.
It is mine to manage.
And that pause.
That is sobriety at work.
I did not send that version ofthe text.
I actually did text'em and Iasked them simply why I wasn't
invited.
It was like a whole thing.
You guys know I am really goodat going on tangent, so I'm not
(35:40):
gonna get into it here.
But basically it was amisunderstanding, like she
didn't think I would even wannago, which is why I wasn't
invited.
So that is truly for me.
Such a moment of growth becauseeven though I didn't send the
petty text, if I didn't text herat all and simply ask like why I
wasn't invited to this thing, Iwould've rambled with so many
(36:02):
assumptions, which would'vetriggered my people pleasing,
oh, she's mad at me.
Oh, she must be this like just.
I would've completely spiraledand maybe blown up our
friendship.
So I'm really glad that sobrietyis giving me more clarity and
more control over my emotions.
the-sober-butterfly_18_06-04 (36:19):
so am I still a little toxic?
Yes.
Short answer, yes.
But am I aware?
Yes, I am.
I'm not hiding from it in a wineglass.
I'm unpacking it with grace,with tools and with time, and
you don't become a perfectperson when you get sober.
(36:39):
You just become a more honestone.
So if you are in that spacewhere you're sober, but still
messy, reactive, or just maybeemotionally chaotic.
Welcome, welcome to the Sober bythe Fly Club.
No, um, you're not broken.
You are just beginning.
So please tell me what's yourstill toxic trait?
(37:00):
Post sobriety.
DM me on Instagram at theperiod.
Zopa butterfly, or just drop mea voice note.
I want to hear it.
No shame.
Just community over here.
I love you Butterfly so much.
Please don't forget to rate andreview the show, especially if
this episode made you laugh andself-reflect.
I will see you next week.
(37:21):
Oh, you guys, when you hearthis.
I'll be in Iceland with my mom.
We are going on the littlegirls' getaway to the land of
fire and ice.
I'm so excited.
It is summer for them.
But it's still cold.
It's like forties and 50, 50degrees Fahrenheit.
But it's also their summer sun.
(37:43):
So I don't think the sun isgoing to set.
I'm so excited for this trip.
It's gonna be an amazingexperience.
So yeah, make sure you'refollowing me on Instagram so you
can stay up to date with thissober trip that I'm taking with
my mom who's also sober.
I love you guys.
I'll share next week how ourlovely trip went in Iceland.
Until then, stay soft, staysober, and stay honest.
(38:07):
Bye.
so I stopped drinking.
I started journaling, and I evenbought crystals, and yet,
somehow I still had the urge totext my ex just to make a point.
Sobriety cleaned up my habits,but it didn't magically scrub
away my inner saboteur.
If you've ever looked in themirror after months or even
years of being alcohol free andthought, wait, am I.
(00:24):
Still a little messy.
Am I the problem.
This episode is for you todaywe're talking about the site of
sobriety that doesn't alwaysmake it to Instagram.
You know, the petty,perfectionist, people pleasing,
judgmental stuff that stillshows up even without a drink in
hand.
the-sober-butterfly_4_06-0 (00:43):
This episode is called Sober, but
still toxic, A Journey inProgress, because that's exactly
what it is.
Not a destination, but ajourney.
A messy, humbling, but totallyworth it journey.
So grab your favoritenon-alcoholic bevy, and let's
get into it.
(01:03):
hello.
Hello, beautiful butterflies andwelcome back to the Sober
Butterfly Podcast.
I am your host, Nadine, andtoday's episode we're talking
about that awkward in-betweenstage of sobriety where the
liquor is gone, the hangovershave stopped, and you start to
realize you're still kind oftoxic.
(01:24):
Like, why am I still this pettyif I'm not even drunk anymore?
the-sober-butterfly_5_06-04-2 (01:29):
I wanted to make this episode
because I realized somethingkind of shocking.
More recently actually.
So I've been sober for overthree years, coming up to four,
oh my God, four years next monthin July.
And while so much in my life haschanged, there are still parts
of me that show up with oldpatterns, and I used to think
(01:50):
that once I quit drinking, I'dbecome this enlightened version
of self.
I want you to.
Think about Maslow's hierarchy.
I am at the peak.
Okay.
I thought I would be thisself-actualize goddess.
Zen, healed, glowing, and do notget me wrong.
Sobriety has given me so much.
(02:10):
It's given me clarity, peace,purpose, but it also took away
one of my favorite distractions.
No.
Let me walk that back.
My favorite distraction wasnumbing out.
Now I have to sit with myfeelings and sometimes I don't.
Like, if I'm being honest, Idon't like what I find.
so this episode.
(02:30):
Will help you pull back thecurtain on what sobriety has
actually revealed and spoiler.
It's not always pretty, but itis honest and hopefully
relatable.
In this episode, we'll begetting into things like therapy
breakthroughs, inner child work,petty thoughts I've had even
while sober And how being soberdoesn't mean you are done doing
(02:53):
the work.
In fact, it's probably just thebeginning.
the-sober-butterfly_6_06-0 (03:01):
When I first got sober back in 2021,
I thought the hardest part wasbehind me.
And everything in life wouldjust be easier.
No more tequila tantrums, nomore blackout apologies.
I just figured I would glow upspiritually and emotionally.
With 90 days, I was expectingthat girl.
(03:24):
Cue soft lighting, dailyjournaling.
Loving everyone's IG post.
Completely false.
That narrative was so incorrect.
Instead, I got annoyed, I gotangry, I got judgmental.
I started noticing all the shitI used to drink to ignore, like
(03:46):
how I would have to win everyargument or how irritated I
would get when someone walksslowly in front of me, I can't
help it.
I'm an Aries guys.
And I remember in earlysobriety, when I say early
sobriety, I'm thinking quiteliterally the first 90 days,
those first three months wheneverything is raw and fresh.
(04:07):
And interestingly enough,getting sober.
I got connected to sober folksonline.
That was my initial point ofcontact with the sober world.
I've talked about this on thepodcast before, like I didn't
know anyone IRL in real lifethat was sober.
So I was seeking.
(04:29):
Community connection.
Representation in the soberworld.
And so Instagram became thatplace for me.
And I remember following all ofthese different sober accounts,
and a lot of them wouldreference the pink cloud effect.
And pink clouding is basicallywhere you see life through rose
colored goggles.
(04:49):
Everything is butterflies andrainbows and cupcakes, and it's
a sense of euphoria that I quiteliterally could not relate to.
You know, everyone's talkingabout how amazing it feels to
get sober.
And I, in those first three-ishmonths, was probably the most
angry I've ever been in my life.
Like I was just steaming andanything would set me off and
(05:13):
actually.
Now that I really think aboutit, it was more than three
months.
I would say it was like six-ishmonths for me to like get a grip
on my emotions because feelingwas a foreign concept to me.
Like I.
What do you mean?
I'm gonna sit throughdiscomfort?
Like how does that work?
So anything would basically setme off and I was so sensitive
(05:37):
and I was crying and I wasbasically acting out of
character for me.
And I distinctly remember thisone time, I was probably like
four months in sitting in awomen's meeting.
It was an online AA women'smeeting, and I would go
faithfully twice a week,Wednesdays and Sundays.
And that group was incredible.
(05:59):
It was like my first taste ofwhat it was like to be in
recovery and as someone who wasgoing to these meetings.
Religiously at the time, I gotto know the women quite well and
there was this one girl in themeeting.
She was always the first toshare, and it took me some time
to work up the courage to evenshare.
So I was mostly listening inthese meetings.
(06:20):
But this one girl in particular,was always eager to share and
was always talking about thesame issue, and I'm not going to
get into it, it's not reallyrelevant.
And also I wanna uphold thetradition of anonymity.
So even though you don't knowthis woman, just know that she
was in this meeting, it wouldalways share and cry.
(06:40):
And one time she was crying and.
I remember having like this outof body experience where like
objectively I could see this wassomething really beautiful.
This was a vulnerable moment forher, and while I could see that
from the outside, I was justsitting in that meeting thinking
to myself, ugh, like not heragain.
(07:04):
Yeah, that was me sober, butsilently shady.
And that's when I realized justbecause I stopped drinking
doesn't mean that I'm done withthe emotional work.
I'd only removed the numbingeffect.
the-sober-butterfly_7_06-0 (07:19):
Fast forward another few months, and
a year into my sobriety, Istarted this podcast And my
intentions for starting thispodcast have always been around
storytelling and sharing, andreally offering as much
transparency and honesty aspossible, especially as a woman,
a woman of color, a black womanwho felt as though the
(07:40):
visibility still wasn't asapparent.
It's just interesting, you know,in starting this podcast and
reflecting back, one of thefirst interviews I ever did was
with Ketia and Kaia.
Is a sober influencer.
She's an amazing woman.
Her episode is incredible.
I will link it in the show notesfor reference and it's still
(08:03):
very relevant, but she was thefirst person that like planted
the seed for me around this ideathat there are still sick people
in sobriety, there are stillsick people in recovery.
And she made that very clearthat just because, you know,
you're connecting with thesepeople online or even in real
life and they are sober, itdoesn't mean that they are
these, you know, optimizedversions of self enlightened
(08:26):
babes.
It's simply the fact that theyare abstaining from alcohol.
And I've also touched on thesubject of being a dry drunk.
And what that means in AA islike, you are not drinking,
you're dry, but you haven't doneany of the spiritual work or
emotional work that it reallytakes according to members of AA
to maintain sobriety and a bigpart of.
(08:50):
What I connect to in terms ofphilosophies related to AA and
their guiding principlesservice, right?
So.
Without realizing it, I startedthis podcast because I wanted to
be of service and it hasconsistently been this way for
me to stay grounded in mysobriety and offer inspiration
(09:10):
and help to other people.
Um, so that feels good.
But when she said that, whenKaia was like, yeah, there are
still sick people in sobriety.
I had this almost like visceralreaction where I'm like, oh, it
is that me.
Like, is she talking about me?
And she wasn't, she wasn't beingmessy and talking about me.
(09:32):
It was, it was related to ourconversation, but I had that
moment where I was like, Hmm,like maybe this is a sign that I
could and should be doing alittle bit more work.
You know, having that year undermy belt, you start to feel
confident, like, yeah, like Ifinally am no longer angry and
sensitive and crying all thetime, so this is good.
I'm good.
I don't need to do any more workwith my sobriety.
(09:54):
But the reality is, whether ornot it's connected directly to
my sobriety, there's always workto be done when it comes to
personal development and growth,whether that be along spiritual
lines or emotional relationshipsor interpersonal relations, it
doesn't matter.
Like I can always grow.
And so she was the first personthat made that abundantly clear
(10:14):
to me, like, just because youare sober does not mean that you
are still not sick.
It does not mean that you arestill not suffering.
It does not mean that you haveno work left to be done.
the-sober-butterfly_8_06- (10:24):
Okay, so now I wanna get a little bit
more granular and talk aboutsome of the ways, the insidious
ways in which some toxictendencies can still show up in
sobriety.
And I've compiled a list, andthese tendencies, these
behaviors are things that I haveconsistently struggled with.
(10:47):
Even in my sobriety, I wouldactually take that back and say,
especially in my sobriety,because as mentioned, I'm just
more hyper aware of how I feelbecause I'm not numbing.
And if you are thinking toyourself, Nadine, I don't have
any toxic tendencies anymore.
Good for you.
You get a cookie.
(11:08):
But my hope is, you know, maybein me sharing some of these
truths with you, you may be ableto see or recognize within
yourself some tendencies thatmay lay dormant at times or may
flare up, or you know, things orareas in your life in which you
can still grow and improvebecause it's progress, not
perfection.
(11:28):
So I'm gonna share this listwith you, and if any of these
resonate, let me know.
Okay.
the-sober-butterfly_9_06-04-2 (11:35):
I wanna kickstart this list with a
topic that we have devoted anentire episode to here at the
Sober Butterfly Podcast.
In connection with Salt RiverTherapy.
So the episode that we recentlyaired with Alexandria Atkinson
from Salt River Therapy wascentered all around people
pleasing and I admittedly havealways been a people pleaser.
(11:57):
And I like to sometimes say I ama reformed people pleaser, but
that is not accurate.
It is something that I activelystrive to work on.
And I have to keep at theforefront because it's my
default nature.
Like I aim to please, what can Isay?
But here's the thing aboutpeople pleasing.
I don't even think we touched onthis in that episode, but I had
(12:18):
a thought.
I was like, people pleasing.
It is toxic.
Um, and it's not because we, asthe people pleasers, are being
taken advantage of.
It's actually, if you thinkabout it, people pleasing, is
manipulation and a cute outfitbecause I used to think that my
people pleasing tendenciesalways connected to me being
(12:39):
like the nice girl.
Even back to like adolescence,like I'm talking, being six,
seven years old, some of myearliest formative memories
involved me giving away my toysto quote friends.
Because they were like, oh, Ilike your Barbie.
And I'm like, oh, you can haveit, and then obviously my mom
(13:00):
being like, what the hell areyou doing, giving away your
toys?
Like, I worked for that anyway.
I used to think that, you know,I was just being a nice, good
little girl, but it turns out Iwas fake nice.
And the fakeness here.
It is not always intentional,like I wanna be a fake person.
I certainly, as a 6-year-old,didn't wanna be fake when I was
(13:22):
giving my friend my Barbie, butit's fake nice because it didn't
feel good, right?
It didn't feel good.
When I gave away this brand newBarbie that my mom just bought
me, simply put, it was me tryingto avoid conflict and gain
approval.
I was not setting boundaries atsix and fast forward almost 30
(13:43):
years.
Ow, that sounds crazy.
I still am working on settingboundaries.
The only difference between6-year-old me and 34-year-old me
is I now see clearly that mypeople pleasing.
I.
Wasn't about setting boundaries,it was about me managing
(14:04):
people's emotions for them.
And that's why I think peoplepleasing is a form of
manipulation.
How dare I try to manipulate howyou feel about me?
Why can't I just show up as myauthentic self?
And you appreciate that.
How dare I try on a persona oract out of character?, Just to
(14:28):
get your approval.
So sobriety has helped merealize how much of that was
about fear, sobriety andtherapy.
Fear of rejection, fear of notbeing, quote, the good girl and
that fear has not been removedsimply because I stopped
drinking that fear.
If anything is more pervasive,but it's helping me.
(14:52):
I.
Name, the discomfort, I have thelanguage and tools now to
properly articulate what liesbeneath the surface.
I.
Why I'm choosing two people,please.
And like I said, a, a big partof that is fear.
In that episode with Alex that Imentioned, we get into
attachment theory and I am aquintessential, anxious
(15:15):
attachment girly over here.
So I, you know, don't likefeeling as though other people
are going to reject me or leaveme.
And so.
I have had to reframe, or I'mstill working on reframing.
Why me upholding a boundary orme saying no, or me acting in
(15:40):
accordance to my desires and myvalues would not make me a good
girl.
the-sober-butterfly_10_06-04 (15:46):
so I'm still unpacking my people
pleasing, but I really dobelieve the root calls comes
down to fear.
Fear of rejection, fear ofisolation, fear of being
unloved, feeling as though Ihave to earn people's love and
acceptance.
I will also actually get intothat a little bit later in the
episode, but yeah, I am sittingwith that discomfort of
(16:11):
upholding my boundaries and notalways being a people pleaser
without reaching for a drink orbeing a doormat.
the-sober-butterfly_11_06-0 (16:19):
I'm gonna say something butterflies,
and they need y'all not to judgeme, but petty, petty is a love
language.
It is my love language.
Sober me still rolls her eyesand lowercase.
I still screenshot Instagramstories.
I may still throw some shadehonestly, I think I could win a
(16:40):
Pulitzer for vibes basedsub-tweeting and don't lie,
because I know that some ofy'all do this too.
If you've ever just typed theletter K and think I'm better
than you.
Okay, same.
Here's the thing though, beforesobriety that pettiness had a
(17:00):
hazy filter I would get tipsyand go full FBI agent on someone
else's social media or spiralinto like a 3:00 AM text rant.
And I won't lie sober.
Me may still spiral at 3:00 AMand draft a lengthy paragraph,
but I'm not hitting send.
(17:22):
Okay.
I have a little bit morediscretion now that I'm sober.
The pettiness is, you know, likeI mentioned, still there, but
it's less crisp, you know, it'sless high definition.
It's also educational becauseevery time I get the urge to
(17:44):
like clap back in a group chator send a one word reply like.
I don't know, like interesting.
These are all triggers for me.
So if I send you a text thatsays, interesting, I know what
I'm doing.
Just so you know, if you send mesomething and I just say,
entrusting, yeah, I'm beingpetty.
So I have to ask myself, youknow, what is really underneath
(18:06):
this?
Even going back to peoplepleasing as mentioned before,
like fear is driving a lot of mypeople pleasing tendencies.
What's underneath my pettiness?
Maybe I'm feeling left out,insecure, I don't know, unseen.
It is one of those feelings thatI have to put a name to, and
(18:27):
that's where journaling comes infor me.
That is why I journal, to makesense of my feelings, my
emotions, and try and name them.
And just a quick side tip foryou, like a little pro tip, if
you are someone who struggles toname or place your emotions like
me, I want you to Google anemotional wheel and it might
(18:51):
seem elementary.
But an emotional will truly is agreat resource for better
understanding your emotions.
Because I have had so manydiscussions on this podcast and
in the real world, around peoplenot probably being able to
understand their emotions ormaybe there's a sense of
uncertainty around what you'refeeling in certain situations.
(19:12):
And especially in early, earlysobriety.
like you do need to be able to.
Increase your emotionalvocabulary and I find the
emotional wheel allows people tovisually pinpoint what that
specific feeling is.
And you can just go through thewords and try and figure out
which ones resonate the mostwith you at any given time.
(19:34):
And if you can't find a wordthat fits, that's also good
information.
It could be a combination ofthings, but I've seen people
gain a better understandingimmediately after finding the
correct word for labeling whatthey felt.
So hopefully you can do the samewhen you use it.
the-sober-butterfly_12_ (19:52):
Another amazing resource for you guys to
check out.
Brene Brown wrote a book calledAtlas of the Heart, mapping
Meaningful Connection in theLanguage of Human Experience.
This book is Chef's Kiss.
Truly changed my life in the wayin which I.
Understand why it's actuallyreally important to distinguish
(20:15):
your emotions and even likemisconceptions in standard
English.
Vernacular, right?
Like she defines jealousy andenvy.
That was one that I'm justthinking of that stood out to
me.
Like most people will say oh,I'm so jealous in this
lighthearted way.
If someone says, for example,like, oh, I am going to Europe
(20:39):
for the summer, oh, I'm sojealous.
In actuality what we mean is.
I'm so envious, but like theconnotation behind envy is
misconstrued.
And so people think that if youwere to say like, I'm so
envious.
It has more of a negativeassociation, but the reality is
envy the way she defines it.
I'm actually gonna pull it upfor us.
(20:59):
Envy is when we want somethingthat someone else has, while
jealousy actually Arises fromthe fear of losing something
that we already have.
So basically, envy is focused onthe desire for someone else's
possessions or achievements.
While jealousy is rooted in thefear of losing something like a
relationship or being a part ofa valued relationship.
(21:21):
so going back to that example ofsomeone telling you they're
going to Europe for the summer,and you're like, oh, I'm so
jealous.
I wish I was going like thatperson going to Europe has no
impact on your life.
It's, it serves no threat.
You're not worried that you'regoing to lose'em or you are
gonna lose the opportunity to goto Europe because they're going.
The reality is you're longingfor that trip, that possession,
(21:46):
that achievement or that status.
And so it just really helped memake sense of.
The emotions and experiencesthat define what it means to be
human.
And she helps walk us through anew framework for cultivating
more meaningful connections.
So yeah, love that book.
I will also link that in theshow notes for you.
I mean, I love Brene Brown, butthis book was one of my
(22:08):
favorites by her.
So you wanna check that out too,even if you are great at placing
your emotions, I feel like thisis just an extension for you to
gain an even further, deeper,profound understanding.
the-sober-butterfly_13_ (22:19):
anyway, I digress back to being petty In
conclusion, sober me isn't anyless petty.
Uh, I mean, like I'm a, I thinkI'm a little less petty, but
she's just more aware where it'scoming from.
Sometimes it's my inner teenagerwanting to be liked.
Like if everyone's talking crapabout someone else or gossiping,
(22:42):
like if I join in, that to mefeels like pettiness.
'cause it's like, why do I evencare what this other person is
doing or how they live theirlife.
Like normally I don't care aboutstuff like that, but I might do
it to fit in for that socialacceptance.
So that's an example of, beingpetty in the name of like a
contrived connection withsomeone else.
Sometimes it's the part of methat is scared to be vulnerable,
(23:04):
so instead she chooses sarcasmover softness.
Sidebar.
I am overly wary of supersarcastic people.
Like, don't get me wrong.
Born Brit over here.
I love my dry humor, but I like,I'm thinking actually I'm
triggered.
I'm thinking about this guy thatlike was so sarcastic that I
used to date and every word thatcame out his mouth was like
(23:27):
this.
Just, I don't know, sarcasm.
I'd be like, oh, it's a prettyday.
Oh yeah, you would think it's apretty day.
Like that's a terrible example.
But like that was just how hewas.
And I'm just overly wary ofsuper sarcastic people because
I'm like, what are you reallytrying to say?
Like there's somethingunderneath that sense of sarcasm
usually I find anyway.
(23:49):
So.
Me just trying to figure out whyI might default to humor, over
like softness.
And sometimes I think it's me.
I.
Acting wild.
I still feel drawn like a mothto the flame to chaos at times.
I recently wrote in my noteapps, I wanna blow up my life.
(24:09):
No, I actually don't wanna blowup my life.
But I, I sometimes get in thatsense of like.
Thinking back to what mytherapist said, when you're
bored, you are dangerous.
She always says, Nadine, whenyou are bored, you are
dangerous.
And so sometimes I'm like, yeah,like am I just doing it for the
plot I don't wanna shame thatpart of myself anymore, that
petty part of me.
(24:30):
I just wanna keep her in checkin line.
I want to clock the sheet beforeI press share and because I love
you and we're friends, I amalways gonna keep it real with
you.
I might still post things thathave an undercurrent of shade,
but I do it with intentionbecause petty, when wielded
(24:54):
responsibly can actually be aform of self-expression.
It's growth with a side of K.
the-sober-butterfly_1 (25:01):
Alrighty.
So the last toxic trait that Iwanna talk about that I still.
Work on in my sobriety isjudgment.
Sober.
People don't judge.
Sober people don't judge.
I mean, how many times have Isaid that myself?
I'm not judging what's in yourcup.
Yes, we are.
I am actively working on this.
(25:23):
Please don't judge me for being.
Honest about being judgy attimes.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Like mostly I don't care what'sin people's cup like at this
stage in my sobriety.
But let me tell you in thebeginning, going back to that
first year and change ofsobriety, I was heavily judging
and don't be drunk around me.
Heavens forbid you are tipsy oryou've drank too much around me
(25:46):
Because I was looking down onanyone who still drank.
Like girl, you were justdrinking heni out of a shoe in
Tulum last year.
Okay, relax.
That may or may not be a truestory anyway.
I had to check myself becausesobriety is not a competition.
the-sober-butterfly_15_06-0 (26:02):
and this is probably the toxic trait
that I've improved the most on,is the judgy part, because
sometimes we swing too hard.
I find in the other direction.
I'm an extremist by nature.
We go from messy to Messiah inlike under 90 days, and suddenly
I was side eyeing mygirlfriend's.
(26:22):
Ordering bottomless brunchmimosas, like I hadn't been the
blackout brunch queen.
or I'd hear like a friend ventabout hangover and think, well,
maybe if you stop drinking andgot your life together, you
know, those were like thethoughts that I had.
Inner thoughts, like I wouldn'tactually say that out loud and
(26:43):
it's like, excuse me.
Who invited Ms.
Holier than thou to the groupchat?
And it doesn't feel good to bejudgy.
I I really did have to checkmyself because sobriety is not a
competition, it is not a highermoral ground.
It is not, you know, a GirlScout badge.
It is a choice.
A deeply personal one, andjudging people from not making
(27:06):
the same choice I did is stilltoxic.
And honestly, it was a way forme to make myself feel superior.
And now that I have moreperspective and sober time, I
can see that I was usingjudgment as a way to make myself
feel superior while I was stillstruggling.
I was super raw as mentioned.
(27:27):
I was uncomfortable, I wasscared I wouldn't be able to
maintain my sobriety.
So judging other people becamesort of like a, um, an emotional
support blanket.
But that's not community andthat's not compassion and that's
not gonna help someone who isactually struggling.
That's just another way.
That I get to hide.
(27:49):
Hide behind an insecurity.
And so with time I began torealize that being sober does
not mean that I have evolvedpast being human.
Human first over here, soberhuman first, hope human sober
first.
It doesn't mean that I am, youknow.
Immune to petty thoughts, baddays or side, eyeing other
(28:12):
people's choices.
It just means I notice thingsmore, you know, sobriety equals
clarity.
I can sit with things, sit withthat discomfort.
I can ask myself, well, why doyou care so much?
I feel like if you were judgingother people, you care.
So why do I care?
Why does their drink feel likeit's my issue or my problem?
(28:35):
And often the answer is it'snot.
It just isn't.
So now when I feel that judgmentcreep in.
I try to redirect it intogetting curious or finding
compassion.
I have to remind myselfconsistently that everyone is on
their own timeline.
I still have friends who drink.
(28:56):
I still have friends who we rollwith you.
I think maybe drinking too muchand you know, part of me as a
sober person is like, okay, I, Isee some remnants of my drinking
history.
These people's experiences, andI don't wanna sound preachy, but
I always remind people that I'mhere, I'm an open book.
If you ever wanna talk to me, Ican be here in any capacity that
(29:21):
you need me to be.
Just know that everyone's storylooks different and we don't
have to be on the same chapter.
And it doesn't mean that if youare misaligned in your lifestyle
choices, that your story isbetter than someone else's, or
that they're not writing theirown beautiful story.
So honestly, my judgment saidmore about me than ever did
(29:45):
about them.
And it just reminds me of likethat nursery rhyme.
It's not a nursery rhyme, girl.
What am I talking about?
Like, you know, I would say itlike in elementary, middle
school, like, oh, when you pointthe finger at someone else,
three fingers point back at you.
how relevant is that here?
Right When we're.
Busy looking over there, it'slike maybe you should be looking
(30:06):
in the mirror.
Maybe you should be focused onyourself.
The inverse can be true as wellfor people who are judging our
sobriety, right?
Our choices to not drink.
maybe it's a reflection of howthey feel about their
relationship with alcohol.
judgment in any form is usuallyless about the other person and
more about you.
the-sober-butterfly_16_06-0 (30:26):
You know what nobody tells you when
you get sober.
That putting down the drink isthe easy part, the real fun.
Begins or the real detox happenswhen you can't numb anymore and
when you have to sit withyourself.
We've talked about this, that'swhere therapy came in.
(30:47):
For me.
It was like this, um, quietplace where the BS couldn't hide
and it's no secret on this showthat I got sober thanks to
therapy and willingness ofcourse.
But around six months into mytherapy, my weekly therapy
sessions, I ugly, cried, and Imet the root of my toxicity.
(31:12):
She was a 6-year-old with herhair and plats or braids and you
know, always trying to smile,always trying to please so she
wouldn't be left behind.
And that was the moment Irealized my rage when someone
doesn't text back or.
Give me the attention, I think Iwant and deserve my inability to
(31:37):
ask for help.
It was all rooted in fear.
Fear of being forgotten, fear ofbeing unlovable, fear of losing
control.
Because somewhere along the wayI learned that control was safer
than closeness.
And I remember one time intherapy, my therapist asked me,
she's like, when did you learnthat love has to be earned and
(31:59):
butterflies?
That question sat in my chestlike a rock, because the truth
is, I don't remember everlearning that.
I just always sort of knew it.
I guess it was just baked intothe dynamics of my childhood,
especially related to my father.
Be the good girl.
(32:20):
Don't need too much.
If you're easy to love, you'llstay loved.
And that belief followed me intoadulthood and straight to the
bar.
When I drank, I became someonewho could be funny and chill and
flirty and outgoing.
I could pretend I wasn't scaredanymore.
(32:43):
I could perform worthinessinstead of actually healing the
parts of myself that never feltworthy to begin with.
So yeah, sobriety didn't fixthat.
Sobriety exposed it and suddenlyI didn't have alcohol to quiet
those old voices and I couldn'tgaslight myself with, I'm fine,
(33:05):
I'm okay anymore.
And that's actually when thereal work started.
That's when I started to askmyself, what do I actually
believe about love?
What do I actually believe aboutrest?
As someone who's restless safetyboundaries and about who I have
to be to feel accepted intherapy?
(33:26):
I've done a lot of inner childwork, which isn't cute.
It's not the cute Pinteresthealing version.
It is.
Truly sitting with the versionof self that you tried to
outrun, excavating parts of yourpast and parts of yourself that
lay dormant.
It's saying, Hey, I see you andyou were never too much and you
(33:50):
didn't have to earn love ever.
And that shit is the real detox.
You don't unlearn decades ofsurvival.
Mode.
In a month of therapy or from ayear of sobriety.
But you can begin to starttreating yourself like someone
who's worth healing.
(34:12):
And it's not because you'resober.
It's not because you're perfect.
It is because you are human.
And that butterflies is enough.
I wanna ask you a question.
What did you learn about lovegrowing up and is that still
serving you today?
the-sober-butterfly_17_06-04 (34:30):
as we wind down, one of the biggest
changes in sobriety is that Ican see myself now a lot
clearer.
I can clock when I'm spiraling.
I can notice when I'm performinginstead of just being, I can
pause when I want to be petty.
There was actually a momentrecently where a friend didn't
invite me to something.
(34:52):
And I started typing this likereally long, dramatic text.
I even had some like clap emojisin there, but then I stopped and
I was like, you know, I had tolike pause and ask myself, why
am I doing this?
Like, why am I texting her?
Like, what am I actuallyfeeling?
And it turns out using theemotions wheel, I was just hurt.
(35:17):
I felt excluded, and that is nottheir fault.
It is mine to manage.
And that pause.
That is sobriety at work.
I did not send that version ofthe text.
I actually did text'em and Iasked them simply why I wasn't
invited.
It was like a whole thing.
You guys know I am really goodat going on tangent, so I'm not
(35:40):
gonna get into it here.
But basically it was amisunderstanding, like she
didn't think I would even wannago, which is why I wasn't
invited.
So that is truly for me.
Such a moment of growth becauseeven though I didn't send the
petty text, if I didn't text herat all and simply ask like why I
wasn't invited to this thing, Iwould've rambled with so many
(36:02):
assumptions, which would'vetriggered my people pleasing,
oh, she's mad at me.
Oh, she must be this like just.
I would've completely spiraledand maybe blown up our
friendship.
So I'm really glad that sobrietyis giving me more clarity and
more control over my emotions.
the-sober-butterfly_18_06-04 (36:19):
so am I still a little toxic?
Yes.
Short answer, yes.
But am I aware?
Yes, I am.
I'm not hiding from it in a wineglass.
I'm unpacking it with grace,with tools and with time, and
you don't become a perfectperson when you get sober.
(36:39):
You just become a more honestone.
So if you are in that spacewhere you're sober, but still
messy, reactive, or just maybeemotionally chaotic.
Welcome, welcome to the Sober bythe Fly Club.
No, um, you're not broken.
You are just beginning.
So please tell me what's yourstill toxic trait?
(37:00):
Post sobriety.
DM me on Instagram at theperiod.
Zopa butterfly, or just drop mea voice note.
I want to hear it.
No shame.
Just community over here.
I love you Butterfly so much.
Please don't forget to rate andreview the show, especially if
this episode made you laugh andself-reflect.
I will see you next week.
(37:21):
Oh, you guys, when you hearthis.
I'll be in Iceland with my mom.
We are going on the littlegirls' getaway to the land of
fire and ice.
I'm so excited.
It is summer for them.
But it's still cold.
It's like forties and 50, 50degrees Fahrenheit.
But it's also their summer sun.
(37:43):
So I don't think the sun isgoing to set.
I'm so excited for this trip.
It's gonna be an amazingexperience.
So yeah, make sure you'refollowing me on Instagram so you
can stay up to date with thissober trip that I'm taking with
my mom who's also sober.
I love you guys.
I'll share next week how ourlovely trip went in Iceland.
Until then, stay soft, staysober, and stay honest.
(38:07):
Bye.
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