The Socialize Strategy - Dealing with Negativity

On today's episode, we welcomed Grace McCarrick whose expertise is dealing with negativity on social media. 

Grace is a founder and content creator on a mission to revolutionize how we approach work. Over the past three years, she has helped teams become more cohesive and has recently worked with brands like Airbnb, Chewy, Abercrombie, and more. She joined us on the podcast today to discuss how she handles receiving hate on the internet!

How to Identify and Analyze Negative Comments

Grace identified three main types of negative comments, which can help you better understand and address them:

- Negativity Toward the Person: These comments target something about you personally (e.g., commenting on your appearance while you're discussing a completely different topic).

- Negativity Toward the Concept: These comments disagree with the core message of your content.

- Negativity Toward Your Credibility: These comments attempt to discredit your expertise, watering down your ideas or creativity.

Grace shared advice on how to deal with all of this and more.

Dealing with negative comments can be tough, but remember, trolls hide behind a screen, believing there will be no consequences for their actions. Grace shared an interesting statistic: far more people consume content than post or create it. Continue putting yourself out there, and your audience will find you.

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For fun mother-daughter chats, check out our personal podcast “Yours Truly with Helen and Juli”

 

Episode Transcript

Helen (00:00):
Okay, welcome to the socialized strategy. It's
another Friday. And I am backwith a very special guest today
to talk about the topic of theday, which is negativity on
social media. And I want tointroduce my special guest who
is a form a very good friend ofmine for many, many years and
also a former colleague. GraceMcCarrick is a founder, content

(00:21):
creator, and speaker with amission to revolutionize how we
approach work.
And she has spent the last threeyears making teams more
cohesive. And the last year,particularly, she has been
debunking Internet myths aboutabout work and talking to
meeting with teams like Amazon,Airbnb, Chewy, Abercrombie, and
a lot of cool law firms andfinance groups because she has
made her presence on socialmedia valuable to people, and

(00:43):
they have found her. So we'regonna talk about how that all
happened. She's got a hundredthousand followers across her
socials. She is hyper focused onhow soft skill mastery changes
the Internet work narrative.
And that's what I love herebecause we're gonna marry real
life with social media, my oneof my favorite things. So Grace
and I know each other. Hi,Grace, by the way.

Grace (01:04):
Ellen. I'm so happy to be here.

Helen (01:06):
Me too. We worked in the same building on the same floor
in real life IRL on 20 FifthStreet in New York City when I
had an office space there, andGrace worked at a PR firm next
door. So when I go back to Gracebefore she was even in culture.

Grace (01:19):
I think that was 2014.

Helen (01:21):
Was it? Wow. Okay. So it's been been a long time. And
we stayed in touch over theyears.
And when I started up withSocialize, I reached out to her
because I really wanted to getsome thinking going on creating
good culture. And, also, my myexperience on social media was
bringing me a lot of new thingsthat I wasn't ready for because
that's not what I was trainedfor. So, Grace, I want to talk

(01:41):
this is today is about you, butI wanna tie it together how we
how we come together. And Iwanna know how did you start
your TikTok? How did it it didit evolve?
And what type of content are youcreating specifically on social
media?

Grace (01:54):
Oh, okay. Well, I think people in your studio, since
they're they're really focusedon creating good content, will
appreciate this. I content isalways an evolution. I kind of
got into TikTok in 2020, and Igot really into, like, lesbian
TikTok. I don't know if anyoneknows about that.
It was a huge thing in 2020.

Helen (02:12):
I remember that.

Grace (02:13):
Even all these, like, lip sync videos and stuff, and I got
maybe 2,000 followers orsomething. And then I I noticed
myself really getting anxiousabout, did I post this, and did
it get views, and did it getlikes, and did it get this? So I
shut it all down in, like, fallof twenty twenty and then didn't
look back. And then when Istarted my company in 2021, I

(02:34):
think around probably around thetime, Helen, I started working
with you. Mhmm.
I I picked it back up just towatch and support maybe. And
then I started posting about ittwenty twenty two ish. I didn't
get really serious till the endof twenty twenty three, and it
has evolved. I was very muchinterested in, like, culture and

(02:56):
talking to people how to maketheir teams work better. Now a
lot of what I do is debunk theInternet narrative about work.
I talk about work with myclients. I talk about
conversations that come up whenI'm talking to people across the
corporate spectrum. And it'sit's more of, like, a big long
thought project now, like a hugebody of work. It's really fun.

Helen (03:18):
Yeah. It is. Like, you can you your work is more
evergreen, I think, on theInternet. Whereas I things
change and trends change. So alot of my older content isn't
really relevant, and I alwayssay I'm moving forward.
I'm never really look but yourcontent is very because of the
the nature of it and how it'shuman resources and personality
at work and all of those things,that's relevant from back in the
day right through. So that'swhat I love about your content.

(03:40):
It's not it's it's very relevantand very timely, and it's not
and you're not afraid to becontroversial.

Grace (03:47):
No. It's funny. I feel like, I'm just starting because
it's really was last year. Thistime is when I started blowing
up and really, really growing,and that was for everyone's
edification when I startedposting three videos a day. It
was so sorry to

Helen (04:00):
do that.

Grace (04:01):
But, I keep getting the memories. TikTok's popping those
up to me now, and, there I couldrepost them. It would be the
same exact thing.

Helen (04:11):
Oh my gosh. See? That's exactly right. Oh, I also wanted
to mention that anybody can typein the chat with any questions.
When this releases as a podcast,no one is gonna be able to see
the questions, so we'll repeatthem.
But if you wanna say anything oror ask us a question where we
address it later, we will dothat. Okay. Just wanna open up
that chat just so you know. Youcan introduce yourselves in the

(04:31):
chat, etcetera. Alright.
Now so, Grace, when you started,I wanna know this. Were you did
you know what you were doing?Like, did you just pick up your
phone and start making videos?How did you

Grace (04:41):
No. I called you, and I said, what am I doing? I don't
do you remember this? So I thinkthat I had started posting a
couple of videos. I was alreadyworking with you, so I was
watching what you were doing.
And I

Helen (04:55):
Right. Right. That makes sense.

Grace (04:57):
Was on LinkedIn. So I've been putting a couple of videos
on LinkedIn, and I was gettingbusiness out of it. And I
thought, okay. The kids are allon TikTok. Let me use TikTok as
market research, post a coupleof videos, see what happens.
And it was it was very much atthe time edutainment, which is
the the what I'm in, also whatyou're in. But different Yeah.
Yeah.

Helen (05:14):
I think so.

Grace (05:15):
You know, education entertainment was not as
specific as it is now, and itwasn't as saturated as it is
now. So I thought that I had tohave these videos, like, nice
lighting and this with musicrunning behind to be, like,
here's how you think about yourteam and this. You know, like a
commercial. And I did a coupleof those, and I think you

(05:37):
started editing them.

Helen (05:38):
You sent me one.

Grace (05:39):
Oh, I sent you one.

Helen (05:40):
You sent me a couple, and I said, let me just send you
back something just to give youan idea of what this really
should be, which proves thatanything can be content. You
know, you can send somethingthat's really whatever and I

Grace (05:49):
Whatever I sent was crazy, so you guys all know.
Whatever I sent was like a fourminute long ramble. Helen, I I
remember you edited it and thenyou showed me how you did it and
you walked me through yourthought process, which was the
most game changing thing for me.Because I watched you do it, and
you went not important, notimportant. Doesn't takes away
from the point, does this.
Don't do this breed. Don't dothis thing. Don't do this thing.

(06:10):
And it just helped me forever.It was great.

Helen (06:14):
I think I scared you at first. You were like, Holly, no.
But I think but I It feelsoverwhelming. Yeah. Because it
seems like I can't do this.
Like, she just knows thisbecause she's done been doing
this for thirty five years inher life.

Grace (06:24):
And I still feel that yeah.

Helen (06:26):
No. No. Your videos are so tight

Grace (06:29):
now. Well, now what I do is I have my phone here on my
thing Okay. My thumb near therecording thing. So I say the
first thing, stop. Breathe.
Say it again. Good. Stop. So I'mnot breathing. I'm not like, it
it's as if I've edited ittightly, but I'm doing it while
I'm

Helen (06:47):
It's live editing. Yeah. And a lot of times people think
that they can do that, and theydon't do the timing quite so
right. Like, it's the reach.It's the reach.
It's and I mean, I remember, atsome point, your videos had a
lot of, because you werestopping. And then you kind of
figured out that if I keep mythumb here, I can do it without
reaching. You know? And that'sthat's all a learning curve.
Like, those are the kind ofthings where and even in the

(07:09):
studio, what I'm trying to donow when I talk to people about
their account, I'll be like, youcould do this better, and you
gotta take off the beginninghere.
Like, I'm trying to give thatkind of advice so that ease you
know, slowly, the contentimproves. And you'd picked it up
like, man, you got it.

Grace (07:21):
But none of it happens overnight.

Helen (07:23):
No. None of it happens overnight. We know.

Grace (07:25):
And I think, as your studio people probably realize,
the faster the people who movefaster are the people who have
support of education, who haveaccountability, and who have
camaraderie in it, other peopledoing the same things. So I
never had to do this withoutyou, and I wouldn't want to.

Helen (07:41):
Oh, I see.

Grace (07:43):
Awe. You know?

Helen (07:44):
Yes.

Grace (07:45):
Like, for my own studio.

Helen (07:47):
Okay. Yay. That's that's the benefit of being a friend of
the mothership.

Grace (07:50):
Yeah. Oh, huge silver lining. And then all the way
through, I mean, even to ourpoint today, my first set of
negative comments, I think I dida three way call with you and
Julie. And I was like

Helen (08:00):
Oh, god.

Grace (08:01):
What are we gonna do about this?

Helen (08:02):
What are we doing? Because you had alright. So
let's talk about some of thenegativity you get because I
don't hit I don't get it as muchbecause of the nature of my
content. But you're speakingabout controversial topics at
work, how you feel about workfrom home, for example. That's,
like, such a buzz topic for theGen z.
You know, that whole that wholeworkspace has changed. And so I
love when you go there becauseI'm like, yikes. She's gonna get

(08:24):
attacked. So tell us about yournegativity, what it what it what
it looks like, and what you doabout it.

Grace (08:29):
Well, I am speaking in a space that people feel very
strongly about. And somethingthat has evolved for me I think
my dad said this to me. Myfamily is super supportive of my
online version of my career,which is nice because not Thank

Helen (08:44):
god.

Grace (08:45):
My dad says something to me, I I wanna say, like, seven
months ago where he goes, I'vebeen watching your stuff the
last three weeks, and I feellike you all of a sudden just
became you on there. Like, it'sall of a sudden now you. And
it's so.

Helen (09:01):
Oh, that's so amazing. What a great thing.

Grace (09:04):
And that's but but for everyone, you know, that's
almost two years in.

Helen (09:09):
Years. Yes.

Grace (09:10):
So, I was really afraid to say stuff because it also,
when I started on TikTok, youwhat you need to do when you
start anywhere in a in work orin a new platform, you have to
understand what's going on. Andwhat I saw was a lot of tippy
tippy tippy toeing around, Idon't well, I'm gonna say this,
but let me make an exception forthese people and these people

(09:31):
and these people, and I'm gonnado this and I'm gonna do that.
And it was so everyone washedging everything they said.

Helen (09:37):
Uh-huh.

Grace (09:37):
Hedging everything they said so as not to cause offense.
And I felt like, well, no one'ssaying anything because they're
too busy hedging everything. Andpeople are not paying attention
for long enough for me to hedgeeverything.

Helen (09:48):
Mhmm.

Grace (09:48):
And, also, I just don't I'm not gonna be worried about
offending these I'm not I'm nottalking about people personally.
I'm talking about work concepts.So I did start to get really
bold, and then it just becamesecond nature. And and, you
know, whatever that has I'd saymy first viral video was a hate

(10:10):
viral.

Helen (10:11):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, that that would happen to you.
I'm like, of course, like, ourfirst video was hate.

Grace (10:16):
It was.

Helen (10:17):
My first viral video was like apple pie. Like, who's
complaining about that? Right.It was like, we love you, you
know? So it's like positiveenergy.
It's awful when it's theopposite awful.

Grace (10:27):
It is. You know what? It was such a good learning
experience. And I went throughand I thought I signed up for
this. Like, I don't have any Inever had any for so I'm 35, so
I'm not doing this at 22.
I never had any naivete aboutwhat was gonna happen. It's
jarring. I won't say it's notjarring. But I sat down with
those, you know, what might havebeen 2,000 comments. I think the

(10:50):
first viral video was re meresponding to corporate Natalie
eight AM meeting thing that wasa huge fiasco on the Internet.

Helen (10:55):
I remember that.

Grace (10:56):
Yeah. Last year. So I sat down. I took my notebook. I took
TikTok, and I made, like, linesacross the paper.
And I went, okay. What are whatare these comments? I started
scrolling through and say, okay.Theme of this comment is, you're
an asshole or whatever. But ifyou theme theme of this comment

(11:17):
was, okay.
No. We can't do this. We can'tgo to ADA meetings because this.
Or theme of this comment iscorporate whatever. So for the
first couple months when I had alot of negative comments, what I
would try and do is understandthe themes that people were
talking about.
And so, of course, I took myselfout of it. And then I was trying
to say, like, what are thearguments I'm up against here?

(11:39):
And then that shaped how Icontinue to make my content. So
I made it work for me.

Helen (11:44):
Okay. So now let let me just back up a little bit
because you said, okay. You haveall these hateful comments. But
do you remember even before thiswhen I had I think I had a
couple of comments, and I waslike, Grace. Oh my god.
And it might have been the firstbeginnings of me getting a
couple of negative comments. No.

Grace (11:58):
Do you remember what it was? You were on a hot mess
talking to someone, and theperson was like, I'm gonna ask
you about negative comments andand you were like and you had
just started to get your firstones. And I remember we talked
after the podcast, and

Helen (12:11):
I was like, oh, I don't remember this. Go ahead. Tell
me.

Grace (12:13):
Why even I'll tell you after who it was. I'm like, how
why do you go into it? Well, I'mlike, why why do you even care?
Like, why even talk about it?

Helen (12:20):
Oh, yes. See, that's what you said. I remember that
advice. Year and

Grace (12:25):
a half, though, I think before I

Helen (12:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Get them. Yes. For sure.
And you were like, what what doyou care? That is nothing to
you. That's what I remember youtelling me that, like, do not
give that any attention that youdo not need to pay attention to
that. And I was like, oh, and itwas like the one thing that was
just, like, eating at me fromthe thing.

Grace (12:42):
And I

Helen (12:42):
was just like, so airtime. Right. Don't give it
airtime. And so that started methinking, okay, I'm not giving
it airtime. So that's how Istarted to blanket approach my
negative comments.
But then you come along now youstart getting your negative
comments. Right?

Grace (12:57):
And I do believe the first thing that I called you
on, I said, Helen, I eat mywords. This is living free in my
head.

Helen (13:07):
Exactly. Yeah. Because it it gets to you, you know? But
then you have taken approach ofthe approach of, like, you're
using those comments to actuallymake more content because it
makes a difference to youbecause some of these opinions
are the opinions of people inthe corporate workspace, and
that's what you're talkingabout.

Grace (13:23):
Well, it's really yes. It's really interesting. I do
that. I think I'll shape thatpoint a tiny bit. Okay.
Social media has created areally strong narrative about
work that is running through,everyone's workforce experience,
whether you are on social mediaor not. Because it is it is
really strong in the youngpeople. It's really strong in

(13:43):
new employees. And it's reallystrong in people who are just,
in general, a little bit, like,less self assured, more
gullible, more, more into theInternet, more more unhappy,
whatever it is. So there's thesepockets of people where this
narrative about work isincredibly strong.
Mhmm. And what it does, there'sa lot of people who work remote

(14:07):
post like, COVID really wreckedus on this a little bit. Like,
live in these very insularworlds and focus a lot on the
two d. And so it's created theseInternet behaviors, I call them,
this, like, pocket of behaviorsthat people think are really
appropriate and they are not.And I'll I'll give you an
example.
I I'm sure every single personon this chat who makes content
could understand. And I thinkLouise just said something she

(14:29):
that she yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Helen (14:30):
She had 2,000 comments that are negative, and she's
like, how can I use them? Butshe just had to stop the
comments because it was toomuch.

Grace (14:36):
Out, and I need to attract a lot of anti science
commenters.

Helen (14:39):
That's so crazy.

Grace (14:40):
Well, okay, Louise. Well, you'll you'll hear how I talk
about this. So, basically, whatI'm seeing in the comments is
stuff that I'm getting hired totry and help correct in
workplaces. So I've decided atsome point, well, why would I
not just start correcting it inmy comments? Why not just start
speaking to it in my comments?
And so I started to use that asa way to sharpen my point to

(15:04):
test out how to articulatethings right because I'm not not
gonna get it right the firsttime necessarily.

Helen (15:09):
Mhmm.

Grace (15:09):
And then to illustrate how wrong, some of this stuff
is. So yeah. Go ahead.

Helen (15:15):
I have to just ask you this because the buckets of
negativity, how you did thelines on paper and you said,
okay. These comments wereasshole. These comments were
just negative workspace,whatever the things are. So how
can you categorize the type Imean, I'm talking like a
overarching because I I look atit like, well, you have the
personal attack, which, like,what are you gonna do about that
when someone says to me, yourleg what's wrong with your legs?

(15:36):
I'm like, my legs.
You know, that's to me like apersonal attack. I'm not even
given that attention. There'scontent attack. Like, what are
your buckets of of content?Like, do you have

Grace (15:46):
I always laugh. Like, if I have something go for people
listening, I'm doing, like, abig explosion. I have something
really far. I have maybe, Idon't know, thirty, thirty five
videos out of a thousand overover a hundred thousand views.
So if I have something, goreally big.
I start to get comments about myhairline. People are like,

Helen (16:09):
and you're just Yes. Yes.

Grace (16:10):
So, I the personal attacks are actually they don't
they're not that often, I wouldsay. The it's it the the it's
like the personal attack on mycredibility is what happens
more. So, like, physicalpersonal attacks are very, very
rare. But I do get a lot ofstuff about my voice, vocal fry.
I don't know if anyone else getsthat.

(16:32):
It is, like, the theprofessional sort of credibility
personal attacks that come. Ihad one video that made people
really unhappy where they'vestarted looking at my house and
my school and stuff like that.Every once in a while when I
something pops off, people willgo to my LinkedIn and then start
quoting stuff back and try youknow? But, generally, it is just

(16:55):
trying to break down the pointor to make an alternative point
that they think is moreimportant.

Helen (17:03):
Yes. Yes. Yes. So I'm gonna just chat with what Louise
is because in the chat, Louiseis saying that she had an an
attracted a bunch of antiscience commenters, and she
wants to use the comments toreally almost, like, educate.
But so, she's waving and pausingand thinking it through, which I
think is a good thing.
Like, if you need jerk reactionon something, sometimes you
cause yourself more headache.But if you but the other part of

(17:26):
it when you have a viral videois to start replying to the
comments in a timely manner sothat you're hopping on the
engagement of that video. Andso, Grace, do you see, like,
when you have a video that'shot, it's like, let me grab a
couple of the top comments. Ialways do. To them right away
because, yeah, if you do it moremore quickly, you tend to have
you're kind of in the momentumof that topic.
And

Grace (17:46):
Here's what I do here's what I do, though. I have, and I
Louise, if you could link usthis video so we could take a
look at it, just it would beinteresting. I've been getting
67,000 negative comments on meputting on red lipstick.

Helen (17:59):
Oh, interesting. Oh, Amber, I've seen yours. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
You gotta stop responding tothose. That's a whole different
animal. I mean, I'm gonna saythat's what one thing I didn't
wanna say about today becausethat's more that gets into
political. And I don't wanna getinto that on this podcast
because it's just because it'sso terrifying when you see
what's happening in thepolitical landscape and how
opposed everyone is, and they'recoming at people for it. But,

(18:21):
you

Grace (18:21):
know, what's interesting, Helen, is, like, I'll get what I
was talking about where peopletiptoe around, people will come
into my comments and say, butthis doesn't work for black or
Hispanic women or this doesn'tthey really hit on those touchy
topics, and I shut it down likea the I I I'm harsh, fast.

Helen (18:42):
But you're but you're making a video response or
you're commenting back.

Grace (18:46):
Either commenting or making a video response.

Helen (18:47):
Okay. Okay.

Grace (18:48):
Because you

Helen (18:48):
can comment back. Yeah. Immediately.

Grace (18:50):
Yeah. I wait. What did what did I wanna say to Louise?
Okay. I do I have an archetypethat I so this is like a
leadership technique.
I also teach this in myworkshops. I have an archetype
that I think of when I'm angryand responding to comments. It's
this character from Killing Eve.I don't know if you've ever seen
it, but, basically, the thecharacter, this woman's name is

(19:10):
Carolyn. She's very cool, calm,and composed.
And so she's never she's neverdoing like, my go to archetype,
and I know this, is when I'mmad, I'm Regina from Mean Girls.
I'm like, you're a you're ahomeschool jungle freak. You
know? Like, I I I so this otherwoman

Helen (19:29):
something mean. Yeah.

Grace (19:30):
Yeah. I just drop into her, and then I start
responding. So that's that's areally helpful for me that I
don't think a lot of peoplethink about.

Helen (19:39):
Alright. So, Grace, you know, that's in the chat there.
But, again, this is a podcast,so people are not being able to
click and watch and do rightnow. So I wanna table that for a
minute and just stay on thepoints. And then towards the
end, we'll we'll you can clickon that when I'm talking, and
then you can take a look at itand comment.
Okay? I think that'll behelpful. Because I wanna make
sure we're doing covering allthe angles of the topic that I
wanna make sure before we endthis. So alright. So we have

(20:03):
negativity personal attack.
We have negativity, to theconcept of the the video itself.
And so

Grace (20:10):
Negativity credibility.

Helen (20:11):
Yes. Negativity credibility. Then you have,
like, a disagreement of, Iguess, a disagreement of
opinions, which then this iswhere what I wanna get to
because I this is what promptedme to invite you here today. You
had a LinkedIn post, and it wasI know it was a TikTok, but I
happen to see it on LinkedIn.And you said, when someone comes
into your comment section andhas a very strong opinion about
something, they are now usingand you said to this point you

(20:35):
commented back to this personand said, make a video about it.
Like, it it's not right for thisperson to think that they can
use your space, come into yourhouse, and now get they're gonna
tout their, you know, thoughtsthat disagree with yours because
that's the only way they can getattention. Talk to me about that
because that was the gamechanging thing that happened
this week that made me bring youhere. I was like, oh my god.

(20:56):
That's so smart.

Grace (20:58):
It is. I think that content creators have been held
hostage for a long time bytrying to feeling like they're
obliged to listen, to be nice,to engage, to leave comments up.
Like, there's something aboutauthenticity that wraps around
this. Like and and I've beenwatching this and going, not for
me. Not for me.

(21:20):
So, basically, what happens forme a lot of times is I'll make
some point about corporate,about work, about the workforce,
whatever. What happenedspecifically was this is one
person, and this happens all thetime, came in and said, all well
and good. If you're a re whatwhat if you're a a Ukrainian
soldier, nineteen years old, inthe trenches? Like, something
like that. People do this allthe time.

(21:41):
All well and good, but what ifI'm what if I'm a disabled
minority? What if I'm the I go,it are you that? Are you that?
If you're not that, then shutup. This isn't this isn't your
battle to wage.
And so what happens is peoplecome in. I get a lot of
attention, so they wanna usethat attention because they want
this is what happens is peoplewant the likes. They want people

(22:02):
to pay attention and listen tothem. That's just a very human
thing. But I don't feel that Ihave to entertain every comment.
And I don't this this thiscontent creators are I mean, you
will start to get pushback ifyou find yourself not doing
this. Like, people will be youhave to let a disagreement
happen. No. I don't.

Helen (22:22):
No. It's your house. Don't. You can let people leave.

Grace (22:25):
I built it.

Helen (22:26):
You may leave.

Grace (22:28):
You don't have to. Like, it's you know, what what I find
the most interesting is thatpeople come in, and I I often
think of this as, like, this ismy living room, and you're
literally in my office most ofthe time. This is my living
room. I've opened myself up tohave this conversation with you
to whoever wants to come havethe conversation. It's as though
someone comes running in yourfront door into your living room

(22:49):
and goes, this is so stupid.
This is the argument you shouldbe having. Why would you
entertain that? That personwould leave your house. You have
that person leave your so Idon't know why we're
entertaining things in two dthat we wouldn't in three d.

Helen (23:04):
That's exactly what I always say. But I will add to
that people will argue that,well, you put it on the Internet
or you put it on social media,so you should so you are
inviting it. You know what Imean? It's like, but then we can
talk about a lot

Grace (23:17):
of people. True. And I am inviting it. I'm looking for
engagement. I'm hooking in a waythat I want engagement.
But that also doesn't mean thatI have to entertain everything.

Helen (23:26):
Yeah. You don't

Grace (23:27):
I don't have to answer everyone. It was

Helen (23:28):
so freeing to see it. You know? When you said it, I was
just like, Oh, my God, this isso great. Because someone had
recently, and it was such aminor thing. But it was I made a
video about camera angles.
And a lot of people like, Oh, myGod, I never even thought about
that when I'm watching videos.And I was just educating. I was
like, Did you know that yourcamera angle can actually tell
your viewers somethingsubconsciously that you don't
even know you're doing? It waslike, I thought I'm teaching
people something that theyprobably will be like, oh my

(23:50):
goodness. Oh, yes.
I had people come in and say,oh, you're ridiculous. Like,
it's all about the content. Youshouldn't don't you shouldn't,
jade people about how theyshould look at content based on.
Are you do you just wanna putyour head in the sand and not
learn about life, aboutanything? This was just purely
like you might subliminally betelling somebody something that
you don't mean to be, so I'mtrying to help you out.
And that was like when thatcomment came in, and then I saw

(24:12):
your LinkedIn posts because Iand I just wanted to go, and
then I realized, you know, I'mnot even gonna give her
attention. I think I wrotesomething. I showed you the
response. I said, you can thinkabout it as, I think about it as
enlightening. I said somethinglike that.
Not you know? I forgot what thecommenter was weird.

Grace (24:28):
So nice.

Helen (24:29):
I did it. I was nice.

Grace (24:30):
I feel I feel when people come in rude, and what happens
to me is that people come inrude, I respond rude, or I
respond with a video sharp. Andthey're so offended. They're so
affronted. And I think part ofit is that that people and this
is the Internet page. By theway, this shows up in work.

(24:50):
I'm dealing with this withexecutives and managers and work
all the time. People didn'tjudge their tone accurately and
or they didn't think you weregoing to see it. So they thought
they were yelling into the void.And we have to stop doing that.
Right.
It's not it's not going tohappen on my platform.

Helen (25:08):
Right. Right. That makes sense. I think it's funny too,
because I always say, like, whenI I've gone snarky back to
somebody that makes a snarkycomment, and then they go, oh,
my gosh. I didn't mean it thatway.
And then I'm like, oh, shoot. Iread a tone into it. So that was
my interpretation of somethingthat wasn't right. And that's
why I tend to do I take the niceapproach first, and I'll just be

(25:30):
like, oh, you know, not for you.Totally okay.
I'm just telling you as aprofessional, and I'm doing this
thirty five years, and PS, readthe room. Because I see the
people and the other rest of thepeople in the comments were,
like, just grateful that Ishared this. You know?

Grace (25:41):
Well, it's Read the room. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is
I don't I don't assume goodintent. And I wanna say to
people,

Helen (25:53):
I don't You don't assume good intent. And I try to now
even though, you know, like,some things don't read well.

Grace (25:59):
I'm I'd be so interested to look at your metric. I'm at
50,000,000 impressions sincelast year, over 55,000 comment.
Like, you start it's like a jobwhere you start to see huge
swaths of people. I I'm veryjaded. Like, I I don't, when
people come in nasty, I I don'tcare if you didn't mean it
nasty.
You're now gonna learn this.Right. You're gonna you're gonna

(26:21):
be embarrassed, and you're gonnalearn.

Helen (26:24):
I like that. I like that. And I like the way your approach
is just very, like, honest. Andthen you come back and then it's
like, I don't you don't evencare if they get pissed, which
is another thing. Like, I havebeen forever a people pleaser
and I have learned thank God forsocial media.
Because now I'm not as much of apeople pleaser. I still am. I
know that's my nature to belike, isn't everybody happy

(26:44):
here? You know, let's all getalong. But I also be like I also
have this other side of me nowthat I didn't have before, which
is if you don't like what I'msaying, please just leave.
I don't care. You don't have tolike me. I don't care. That
feels so freeing. And I rememberwhen it clicked, and it was,
like, about a year ago on myaccount.
So I was like, oh my god. Thisis, like, the best thing ever.
And then I started doing thespeaking things, things, which I
would have been so nervousabout. So it all came to

(27:06):
fruition that it's, like,confidence in my own skin and
belief in what I'm saying andreally not caring about the
haters. And any I I reallydon't.
And I guess if some if I hadthousands and thousands of hate
comments, I might have a regroupon this, and maybe we have to.

Grace (27:20):
I I do think you like, I am jaded by it, certainly. But
you do learn you do first ofall, my confidence has never
been higher in my entire life,like, through through, you get a
lot of resilience doing this.But I I I do I wanna say from a
blanket statement, so who like,who's ever on the studio,

(27:40):
whoever has, you know, kids orwe are ruining our young people
by letting this behavior gounchecked.

Helen (27:50):
Truly. Because they think they can say anything at any
time. They're behind a screen.You know?

Grace (27:54):
They're I you know, they're getting fired
consistently because of Slack. Iactually had someone I'm curious
what you think about this,Helen. So I had a follower tag
me in someone's video, and thisperson has 6,000 plus followers.
That's, like, lifestyle contentyoung.

Helen (28:10):
Mhmm.

Grace (28:11):
And she was doing a video saying, I'm four months into
this new team. And I, Ieveryone's just so obsessed with
working so hard, and they hateme because I I just don't
believe in working after Fridayand stuff like that. So doing
this and someone tag and that'svery much on my will. So someone

(28:31):
tag me. And she was basicallysaying, like, they hate me even
though I do my job.
And what I was saying wasthere's there's two parts to
your job. One part is doing thework. The other part is making
sure people perceive you to bedoing the work. Oh, okay.
Interesting.
Any human interaction. And shemessaged me, and that only got I
think I only by even by thismorning, only got five k views.

(28:54):
Like, it it didn't. But it was agreat point, and there's great
comments in there. I use mycomments for everything, so I
like stacking good comments.
And, she messaged me and said,can you please take it down? Oh.
She said something like, I wasjust venting, and I just do this
for fun. And can you just pleasetake it down?

Helen (29:16):
Wow. And I didn't So what did you do? You didn't take it
down. Right? Yeah.
Did you just ignore the comment?

Grace (29:23):
I have ignored it. I haven't decided. No. It's a it's
a message or DM.

Helen (29:26):
Oh, a message. Right?

Grace (29:27):
And I don't always see my DMs for what it's worth. Like

Helen (29:30):
Yeah. They come into the they go into the request thing,
and I have to go through it oncea week, so it's hard.

Grace (29:34):
But my assistant has been checking them for me, so I see
more now. But I thought, youknow what? This is this is good
learning for her. She she firstof all, she's had several videos
go viral, over 50,000, and sheonly has 6,000 followers. She's
not immune to this.
I think what happened was shegot a response she didn't

(29:54):
expect. Mhmm. And that isunfortunately, that's life. Like
Right. Why why am I gonna paythe price price for you?
Now she was like, my boss sawit. Whatever. Okay. I don't want
something to be harmful, but atthe same time, there's this
there's this harshness and thisweakness in this social media

(30:17):
behavior that I can't stand

Helen (30:18):
this Right. Because now she's gonna think just because
she messaged you, you're gonnatake that down, but then there's
no consequence for her leavingthat message in the first place.
There's a weird that's a weirdthing. I get it. I get it.
I do get it. Have you

Grace (30:29):
ever had anyone ask you to take something down?

Helen (30:32):
No. I have not yet. I no. But but mainly, I don't because
I don't make the kind of contentlike anybody would ask me to
take down. I've consideredtaking something down for two
reasons in my life when when Ihad a video that was
ridiculously misinterpreted whenI had a little drone video and
it was in front of me in thepark here, and I got so much
hate that there's a Redditthread.
Okay? That was really crazy. AndI thought, god. And people have

(30:55):
I mean, this boomer so entitled,blah, blah, blah. They even knew
me.
Like, I'm I'm, like, steppingover things so other people I'm
not in someone's way. You knowwhat I mean? I'm hardly that
person. So crazy. So that Ialmost considered taking that
down because I'm like, is this,like, even worth me having out
there?
But the more the comments camein, the more I was like resolved
to just say, you know what? I,if that's what they think, like,

(31:15):
they don't know me. It's notgonna phase me because I know
me. And I know how kind I was tothat lady that almost walked
into the drone that I was like,oh, oh, oh. And then we both had
a chuckle about it.
So I'm like, if that's gonna bemisinterpreted, oh, well. That's
when I got into my oh, wellphase. You know? That was that
one.

Grace (31:31):
I love that phase. I think when people are people can
people put in the comments,like, what is your general
engagement like? Because whathere's an interesting stat that
might be helpful. 1% of peoplepost on TikTok. 9% of people
engage, like, comment, share.
90% of people just watch. Sowhen Wow. Goes

Helen (31:49):
I didn't know that.

Grace (31:50):
Like Helen's drone thing, what you're look what you you're
mostly looking at is a vocalminority.

Helen (31:56):
Right. Vocal minority. But what I'm looking at is the
people watching it become theminority, and that's what I feel
like are they gonna be be,impacted by this. So

Grace (32:05):
Well, that's why I

Helen (32:07):
But I

Grace (32:07):
people around in my comments, which is I don't want
the 90 of people watching myvideos to go to my comments and
think that these attitudes

Helen (32:16):
Give that attention. Yeah. Give that attention.
That's that's terrible, andthat's annoying. Yeah.
So I didn't take the video downstill to this day, and the
Reddit thread still exists outthere in the universe. But I
think it's part of myexperience, and I am I'm okay
with it. It also taught me howquickly things come and go. So
and sometimes I I use thisreference, which I know is maybe
a stupid reference, but WillSmith, remember? He slaps

(32:36):
someone in the face on stage.
He's still making movies. He'sstill like, it moved it all
moved on into the past. Youknow, it's it happened to him.
And I'm sure there's a lot ofpeople like me who will never
forget that nonsense. Like, howdo you do that?
What kind of human are you? Butthere's so many people just go,
oh, right. Yeah. Will Smith. Butthey're still watching his
movies, and they don't they'reholding it against him, let me
just say.
So I think the same thing withsocial media, like, it's always

(32:59):
moving, just like Blake Lively.So one day we're not even gonna
be talking about that. Oh, yeah.Remember when that happened to
her? Yeah.
It's just temporary. But whenwe're in that temporary state,
it is so overwhelming. And so itseems like the only thing. And
so

Grace (33:12):
Also, what I will say is, like, I just had one of my first
really viral Instagram videosabout remote work and whatever.
And there's people in thecomments calling me Diddy. I
mean, people are reallyincentivized. But anyway anyway,
what I will say is I havemoments where something's going
viral in a in a crazy negativeway, and I people talk to me

(33:36):
about my content all day long.People are out, whatever.

Helen (33:39):
In life. Yeah. In your life.

Grace (33:40):
I feel very sensitive in that I feel like I'm naked on
display for everyone to see me.So when people are talking to me
in real life, I'm like, oh,yeah. It's not in a great moment
right now. Let me tell you. Noone knows.
When when's even if something'sblowing up for you, like, I had
something go really negative acouple weeks ago, and a friend

(34:00):
was asking me about the video,said something. And I said,
well, yeah. I mean, whatever.She was like, I don't I didn't
even look at the comments. Ijust liked it and moves past.
You know, people aren't looking,and that's what we're

Helen (34:11):
looking at. Looking at the way we're looking at it. I
always say that. I always saythat people are not looking at
it the way we are obsessing overit. In the same way, I'm going
to say this because I justtalked to somebody who had a
big, like a video blow up andwas one of my private one on
ones.
And she was like, oh, I hadthis, this, so many views, blah,
blah, blah. And she's like, do Ihave to reply to every comment?
And this is exactly what I saidto her. And I know you're

(34:32):
shaking your head, but let mejust say, when people first have
that viral video, right, theythink they have to reply. They
think everybody's waiting for areply to their comment.
But I want you to, like, putyourself on the commenter side.
You're sitting there, you'rescrolling, you comment on a
video. Do you expect that personto comment back? Like you're
scrolling to the next video,you're commenting, next video,
maybe you're liking, maybe thenyou're commenting. On the viewer

(34:52):
side, those people forget theyleft a comment like a minute
after they leave it.
They're not waiting and thinkingtwo days later, oh my god, the
mothership never responded to mycomment. You know what I mean?
That's what people have tounderstand. When you have that
viral moment and you thinkeverybody's waiting, they're all
like outside your door. They'renot.
They are down the block.They're, like, running to the

(35:13):
next person's video, especiallypeople that make negative
comments. They're dropping them,like, you know, right and left.
So right?

Grace (35:20):
Sometimes they're really heinous comments. I'll click on
the person's profile, and intheir bio, they'll be like, if
you came here from a comment,blah blah blah. You know, the
the Oh, I mean their wholepersonality.

Helen (35:30):
That's their whole personality.

Grace (35:32):
Ew. Dang. So gross. Yeah.

Helen (35:35):
Alright. Now before if I wanna say if anybody has
questions now, specifically, putthem in the chat. But the next
thing I wanted to talk about,because I think this is
important, and it's certainlyimportant to me because I'm
trying to figure out how toleverage my, my TikTok content
where I get I do get work fromit, and you do too. But you have
managed to bridge the gap toLinkedIn. And I would love to

(35:56):
take a minute and talk about howyou do that.
Was there strategic thinkingbehind it? Was it just like hunt
and peck, throw shit up there,see what happens, and then all
of a sudden you figured it out?How did you make that bridge so
that now you're getting verygood engagement on LinkedIn and
you potentially work from that.Right? Do you get work from
LinkedIn too?
From I

Grace (36:12):
get more from TikTok.

Helen (36:14):
Interesting. I

Grace (36:15):
get most of my work from TikTok.

Helen (36:17):
Oh, same as me. Same as me. But then I'm not working on
LinkedIn at all. Like, I'm notdoing it to work over there. I'm
not putting up time in.

Grace (36:23):
LinkedIn is where I started. And so if I

Helen (36:26):
possible when it's corporate culture stuff. Like,
why aren't people on in LinkedInpaying attention to you? What?

Grace (36:35):
I get a lot I mean, just then I have currently 2,000
connection requests sittingthere. Like, LinkedIn's a little
bit overwhelming for me rightnow.

Helen (36:43):
Wow. And you

Grace (36:44):
can't do the you can't so there probably is there probably
is easier business, but whathappens on what happens on
TikTok is someone will DM me andsay, hey. I'm VP of marketing at
x company. Hey. I'm chief commsofficer at x company. Can you
come talk to my team?
Like, email, whatever. And thenthat I just send that through to
my assistant, and, like, then weget that set up really quickly.

(37:07):
If someone's trying to, like,ease their way in on LinkedIn
with a connect request andstuff, it's just not gonna
happen for me. Anyway, soLinkedIn, here's what I will say
about LinkedIn. LinkedIn is notand and let me just give you a
couple of pieces of background.
So I've been using it activelysince 2021. I have a friend

(37:28):
who's on the inside. I'm alsopart of and unrelated to him,
I'm part of, like, LinkedInspecial content creator groups

Helen (37:37):
where Oh.

Grace (37:38):
Feed me things, and then they promote my thing in
LinkedIn news, and you get youget in special workshops and
stuff like that. And you're notgetting work from that? Helen,
here's the thing about LinkedIn.LinkedIn does not care about
creators. LinkedIn cares aboutcompanies.
And this is this is wherecreators are always gonna have
trouble on LinkedIn is becauseLinkedIn is not they are not

(38:03):
optimizing their platform forcreators. They're optimizing it
for big companies. So forexample, some inside info,
people with the top top, like,voice badges are almost always
inside in a company that'spaying advertising dollars. Oh.
Okay?
Okay. Really hard for a randomone off person to get that. Oh.

(38:24):
But LinkedIn doesn't. LinkedInwants to have good content, but
they haven't yet crossed thedivide between figuring out how
to actually, like TikTok does,reward good content creators.
That aside so so know that. Youhave to know that. That Okay.
Not a platform that's gonna befriendly to you. That aside,

(38:44):
there are ways to play with it.
Like, it's loving video. It'sbeen loving video for the last
eight months. And what thatmeans is you get kinda pushed
into a current that that falselyjumps your views, which is to
say Okay. If I had something get3,000 review views and 10
comments before, now in thevideo channel, I'll get 30,000

(39:08):
views in the same 10 comments.So so it kinda does that.
Mhmm.

Helen (39:14):
I think my yeah. I think my concern well, I guess my
thing on LinkedIn is like okay.Let me see if I can say this. So
I get all my opportunities fromTikTok. Like, I will get
speaking engagements.
Person reaches out to me, nextthing I know, I'm flying to
Tampa. Person reaches out to me,next thing I know, I'm flying to
Croatia to shoot TikToks for athing. But I feel that there
that I have the value that I'mdoing on the video production

(39:35):
workshops or shooting TikToksfor big brands, that has value
that should be recognized onLinkedIn by a lot of companies
who are trying to figure thatout and find that piece. But I
can't seem to reach those peopleover there. So, I mean, I

Grace (39:47):
I also took a LinkedIn course. I I I think, Helen, you
might fall in the same bucket asme and that you're so good at
top of funnel. And and top offunnel for anyone who's, like,
top of funnel is when you'remarketing or selling a product.
It's like all the people who arejust standing around looking
like like, when someone'splaying music, you know, in the
street and all the people whostart to gather just to be a

(40:10):
little intrigued, that's yourtop of funnel. The people who
come closer, middle funnel,people who drop money in the
bucket, that's that's yourconversion.

Helen (40:17):
My god. That's a great that's a great analogy.

Grace (40:20):
So you are very good at getting people, like, intrigued
and coming in. Most people

Helen (40:25):
are

Grace (40:25):
not good at that. LinkedIn, all the courses, all
the people who are really goodat selling on LinkedIn, they
aren't good at top of funnel.They're good at bottom of
funnel. They're good at, like,taking that one piece of
interest and converting it. Soyou and I have that in common.
Here's what I will say aboutLinkedIn for anyone on here who
wants to convert. There are hugeebbs and flows. So if I show you

(40:45):
my metrics right now, I wouldsay since June, I get about a
2,000,000 views a week onLinkedIn. Right now, I'm at
30,000 views a week.

Helen (40:56):
Oh, wow.

Grace (40:57):
LinkedIn just ebbs and flows a lot, and people get
really hung up. This is when Istart to see people, like,
tweaking out and writing commentabout, I don't know what's going
on, and this is what's like,don't do it. Don't do that. Just
keep calm. Just keep calm.
Keep moving forward.

Helen (41:16):
Well, people do that on TikTok too. Oh, the views are so
bad. Blah blah blah. Like, Ijust

Grace (41:19):
keep on

Helen (41:19):
going. I just keep on going. Like, whatever. Just post
something else. Whatever.

Grace (41:23):
Also, no one wants to see your paid content. It's not
interesting.

Helen (41:26):
It it make you

Grace (41:27):
look dramatic. Yeah. So I think the my best strategy on
LinkedIn has been taking whathas worked on TikTok. So if I'm
post I you know, posting 12videos in a couple days on
TikTok, I'm gonna pick one a daythat did pretty well on LinkedIn
and put it to LinkedIn. Okay.
That's that's been my strategyfor the most part.

Helen (41:45):
Okay. Alright. Fair enough. Alright. So now let's
just get back to negativitythings because I wanna I don't
wanna go totally off the topic,and you can read in the chat.
But some of the things that Iwanted to just make sure we
cover is if you could take eachbucket and say, okay, personal
attack, do you respond? Do youignore? Do you block? Content,
content content attack, do you,you know, just like let's do an

(42:07):
overarching what the buckets areand what the best case response
would be, also depending on whoyou are. So it's like being if
someone if it's some if you're aperson like me, it's like, I
don't care if someone disagreeswith my camera angle thing.
Like, whatever, I'm aprofessional and this is my
opinion, so I'm not gonna reallygive that attention. But if they
ask me something that'simportant and they they try or

(42:27):
they try and say, actually, thatdoesn't work if you don't put a
microphone, blah, blah, blah.Then I might say, actually, it
does work. I might just wannaeducate. You know?
Okay. Alright. So let's see.

Grace (42:37):
Can we know off the top of the head what your, what your
group what what are people'smostly

Helen (42:43):
like? Oh, that the people that are What kind of Oh, boy.
It's all over the map. So wehave menopause content,
lifestyle content. We have justirreverent like, like sort of
fashion cleanse content.
Let me see. I'm looking here,Glenda. We have a photo booth.
We have dog content. That's whoI'm recognizing quickly in the

(43:03):
chat here.

Grace (43:04):
Okay. Cool. Okay. So so Makeup tips.

Helen (43:06):
I see makeup tips. A lot of makeup tips.

Grace (43:08):
Okay. So a lot of, like, candle, a lot of business to
customer b to c.

Helen (43:14):
Good. Candle. Good. Let's let's put them in the chat. That
way in case if I don't know, wecan get some of your.
Alright. So communication, AI.Oh, hi, Maria. Maria, AI tech.
It's funny, but I don't rememberlast names, but I immediately
know who you are.

Grace (43:28):
Career.

Helen (43:28):
Academia. Oh, cool. So that's why you're getting those
that kind of that kind ofnegative and anti science
comments.

Grace (43:36):
Yeah. The entertainment content that leans more heavily
into education is gonna it'sgonna be like me. You're just
gonna get you're gonna get morestuff. Okay. So we're looking at
personal attack, content attack,and just plain disagreement.

Helen (43:50):
Yes.

Grace (43:50):
How do

Helen (43:51):
I Let's take those three.

Grace (43:52):
Okay. Let me go plain Best advice.

Helen (43:55):
Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Plain disagreement. Start there.
I was gonna say start personalattack. What should should I
respond to the person who saidsomething about my legs?
Absolutely no. Yeah. Oh.

Grace (44:06):
Let me think. Let me do the other one. Okay.

Helen (44:08):
Okay. Do the other one. Sorry.

Grace (44:09):
Agreement. Disagreement, it depends. I actually feel I
don't know if this is gonna besurprising given everything else
I feel. If someone wants to comein and disagree, it for for a
lot of specific cases ofdisagreement, sometimes if I
think if there's if I thinktheir argument's stupid, I'm
gonna respond to them. If if Ijust see them disagreeing and I
don't feel called to respond tothem, I just leave it.

(44:32):
I think you're you're you'reperfectly welcome to come in
here and disagree. Somesomeone's like, oh, I don't
agree with this. I would totallyjust leave it. I don't care.
Okay.
So disagreement. Nowdisagreement bucket underneath
that is trying to take theconversation in a different
direction. Now that I Okay.Stand for. So the ad Okay.
All out do that. Okay. Contentattack, and that's different

(44:56):
than disagreement. Right? That'sbeing

Helen (44:58):
like It's a little bit different just because they're
just name. Yes. Just, like,attacking attacking the idea of
your content, not necessarilyjust a a, educational
disagreement. You know?

Grace (45:08):
I answer probably all of those.

Helen (45:09):
Okay. Oh, wow. You go, girl.

Grace (45:12):
Yeah. I answer a lot of those. I answer those more than
I answer the nice comments.Okay. Part of that to me is, I
just it it's really helpful to,like, sharpen my own tool.
Okay.

Helen (45:27):
Good. Because that's and then I'm gonna do I'm gonna do
what how I respond after you doyour three. Go ahead. This is so
funny.

Grace (45:33):
And then personal attack, people okay. If people are talk
if, like, the hair thing, Inever sent that because who
fucking cares what that personthinks about my hair? If someone
starts going, oh, they're like,you're just a fake content
creator business, like, thatkind of personal attack. I do I

(45:54):
think to someone someone saidsomething like, you just sit in
your house all day and makevideos. I said, actually, that's
not my day job.
But if it was, I'd still makemore money than you. So, yeah, I
guess I I in terms of mostrespond to content attack, then

(46:15):
personal attack, then

Helen (46:16):
Oh, then disagreement. Oh my god. Okay. So now I'm gonna
do mine, and I'm gonna go I'mgonna go in the opposite order.
But for me, personal attack, Iwill tend to, this is funny.
My response is always, like,pretend I misunderstood it and
go, oh, my gosh. Thank you forthe compliment. Or I purposely
make that person feel likethey're the idiot. Like, I want

(46:38):
them to feel like that's becausethe thing with the legs, like,
what's wrong with your legs? Iwrote back, I don't know if
there's something wrong with mylegs.
They take me everywhere I needto go. Like, I did a funny
reply. So I will tend to be Ikind of like I don't ever make a
video reply. This is a writtenreply. I would never I rarely
make a video reply to anythingnegative.
Rarely. And you have theopposite.

Grace (46:58):
People hate that.

Helen (47:00):
What? What do you mean?

Grace (47:01):
People hate it.

Helen (47:03):
When you make a video

Grace (47:04):
reply. I had someone I my latest video reply, someone sent
her her sister in to startcalling me a bully and calling
me an asshole.

Helen (47:14):
Yeah. Oh my god. Alright. Well, I rarely reply with video
unless it's gonna teach somebodysomething. And I and it's
usually a positive thing.
Because number one, I don't liketo give any negative idiot my
platform. I don't want theirname up on my screen. So if I
also wanna use the comment, Iwill block out the name. And I
will not do it as a reply. Iwill screenshot the comment, put
it up there, block out the name.
And then that way, the persondoesn't even get the benefit of

(47:37):
having any attention or anyclicks on their content. So it's
like, I don't know. Karma's abitch because I'm not giving it
to them. Okay. So there is that.
But the personal attack, I loveto misunderstand that on
purpose. Like, oh my god. Thankyou so much. Like, I think
that's the funniest thing everbecause I'm like, that person I
know is reading the comment.Like, she's so dumb.
She doesn't even know that wasnegative. And I'm like, let them
think they want what they wannathink. I love that.

Grace (47:58):
I love that.

Helen (47:59):
I love that. And then content attack itself. Itself
like well there will be peoplewho might say oh like we really
needed to know this like ohpeople didn't oh like we needed
a video to teach this sometimeslike a simple when I do a simple
duet thing I get like reallybecause like a young person
comes in and thinks like nobodyneeds to learn. So those I just
go hey, nice to see you. Readthe room.

(48:19):
Because you could see in thecomments, everybody's saying,
thank you so much for thisvideo.

Grace (48:22):
Oh, I love that response.

Helen (48:24):
Thank you so much. Read the room. Because, really, they
don't even everybody else in thecomments is, like, grateful for
the content except for this oneloser who happens to know how to
do a duet. So so sometimes forcontent attacks, I, like, make
sure they know that the otherpeople there don't feel that
way. And that's my thing.
And then I just move on. Andthat's and it's very again, no

(48:45):
video would be made if somebodydid that.

Grace (48:47):
No video. Wanna point out what Cara Cara Cara just said
being

Helen (48:52):
on the

Grace (48:52):
probable best retaliation. Now Cara. What I
think Pete everyone says this toyou. I don't I think you'll know
that I don't agree with that.Like, I think great.
Being unbothered Helen's thingabout read the room. Great. Love
it. I do think it is fine foryou to show, hey. This was
effing rude, And I don't I don'ttolerate it.

Helen (49:14):
Not here for it. Yeah. I don't I don't Right.

Grace (49:16):
You know, I we're this we've taught people that being
we've we've and I'm just seeingthis in the workplace so much,
so I just really feel verystrongly about it. We've, by
being unbothered by all thisstuff, we've taught people that
they're not getting reactionswhen they're out of line, when
they're rude, when they'rearrogant. I had an I had an,

(49:36):
situation in a grocery storethree years ago when it was huge
on TikTok that these kids wererunning around saying things to
people that sounded that weresexual, and then they could make
it sound like something else.So, basically, this group of 12
year old boys, I was walking bythem. One yelled out this
question to me that I'm notgonna be here.
And I because I'm from New York,looked at them and then just

(49:59):
kept walking. And then he went,hey. I said, do you want some
turkey? And I turned around andwent, who the fuck do you think
you're talking to? Like, how olddo you think I am?
And I I I went to the storemanager, and I was like, you
have little boys running aroundhere asking women this question.
Like, get them the fuck out ofyour store. What are you doing?

(50:20):
What? He was like this big oldfat guy.
He was like, oh, maybe I'll seeif I can go do it. I'm like,
there's no consequences topeople's actions, and this is
such a problem. And so I feelstrongly in my in my comments.
My my cousin's a, charter schoolprincipal, and I asked him what
he would have done in thatsituation. And he said, if that
had been brought to me in myschool, I would line up all the

(50:42):
women who teach that kid, and Iwould have him say it to that
phrase.
And I would have them give theirnormal natural reaction to him,
however that that was so that heunderstands when you say
something like that to a person,to a woman, this is the kind of
reaction you're gonna get. It'snot just this, like, Internet
thing where it's all clipped andedited together, and it's very

(51:03):
funny. But we're doing the samethings to people in the comp.
They say crazy shit, andeveryone

Helen (51:07):
letting them do it. Oh, yeah. So well, you know, you
that might have just changedsomething in me. That's like
another see, this is whathappens whenever I meet with
Grace. Like, I see your content,and I'm like, oh my god.
I'm not gonna let people justuse my comment section now to
state their opinion. So I'vealready that was a wake up call.
And now I'm like, maybe I'm notgonna let them be rude and
ignore it. It's

Grace (51:29):
it's a you don't want it to take over your life. And I
think that advice is like beingunbothered. But but no. I mean,
one is one is young people and alot of a lot of the comments you
see, these are 16, 18, 19, 20one year olds. If you met them
in real life and they were rudeto you like this, there's a lot
of, I like, very powerful womanI know from seeing this, like,

(51:51):
here.
Mhmm. Wouldn't let it happen.You just Real

Helen (51:55):
life. Right.

Grace (51:55):
So I don't know why we're letting it happen in our
comments.

Helen (51:58):
Oh my god.

Grace (51:59):
Right. If I

Helen (52:00):
That's a no. But see, that's the takeaway that I
needed. Because I was gonna say,like, what what's, like, one
piece of overarching adviceabout how to not to take not to
how to react or how not to takeit personally over all the
things. And you've kind of justtold me that, which is going
back to what would you do inreal life? Like, what would you
do in real life?
I mean, it's almost like, isn'tthat I use that so often when

(52:21):
I'm like, how to respond tosomething and blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, well, what would Ido in real life if that person
came over my house and did that?I do that a lot. You know, I'll
think about that a lot, but I'venever really thought about it
with the negativity in this way.

Grace (52:32):
This person just asked, Mercury asked, how do you avoid
to be milked for reactions? Ithink she what she's saying is
what you were saying, and Idon't wanna give that person
airtime. What I will say is atmy harshest, the video responses
where I think, Grace, that wason the line a little. Like,
people are not gonna like that.That's what gets most inbound
from companies.
That is we get people'sbusiness. It's when people go,

(52:55):
this is someone who isdifferent, who is standing up
for something she feels stronglyabout. I I I can I like like
forecasting, you know, the theweather? I can tell you very
clearly. This this will be avideo that will get me good
inbound.

Helen (53:12):
Right. And I think that, Mercury, what when you're saying
about avoid being milked forreactions, one way I do that is
I don't let that person beknown. I use that comment, but I
don't let that person be known.And then sometimes I will
forward it to them and like, youknow, send them the video so
that they see it.

Grace (53:32):
But also what happens is

Helen (53:34):
Then it's not calling them out and give them any
attention, you know, like, oh,you know, because I've had a few
where people have done replyvideos to me doing something
where I replied to them. It'sweird.

Grace (53:43):
I've had 100. I've had a many.

Helen (53:46):
If I had that many, I don't know what I would do. I
would sleep at night.

Grace (53:49):
Many. No. I whatever. But I have, now one of them, this
this oh, bothered the fuck outof me. Now I use her videos when
I talk about, like, bad Internetadvice.

Helen (54:01):
So Oh. Oh.

Grace (54:03):
And I show it on big stages. Anyway, what what I was
gonna say to Mercury was I Ithink you have to think bigger
than the little reactions. Soyou have to you can be like, oh,
I don't want this person to win.Well, what if it's not about
this person winning and gettinglikes? What if it's about you
getting a $5,000 contract?

Helen (54:20):
Oh, yes.

Grace (54:21):
Whether they win or get likes. It doesn't matter. So so
that's always what I'm I'malways the bigger picture.

Helen (54:27):
Bigger picture. Yeah. Right. Because in the end, how
does this benefit you, which isyou're putting yourself out
there and you are now inviting apotential. Just the fact that
you're getting business fromthose, that's really, really
telling.

Grace (54:40):
Most often. I get that business. Who just said Cara
said she figured brands andcollaborators wouldn't wanna
work with her. I have severalbrand partners. And I well, I
say at the beginning, listen.
You're not gonna like stuff Isay. You might not like the way
I say it. And they're all like,we don't care. Do you?

Helen (55:01):
But it also depends because Cara Cara, has, like,
dog content. So she may wannaget, like, dog collab like,
collaborations with, createlike, some brands. And so they
don't like

Grace (55:10):
to have I

Helen (55:10):
work with Chewy. You oh, okay. There you go.

Grace (55:13):
No. No. I I get what you're saying. I think you
decide you're gonna you decideyou're gonna play that way to be
safe or you decide you're gonnado what you're gonna do. And
both paths are completely fine.

Helen (55:25):
They are completely fine because you can you don't have
to just like people will comeinto my comments and say, well,
what's your position on this?And, you know, you have a big
account. Like, I have no I don'towe anybody my position on
anything, honestly. You know, Iknow what my I know my positions
on things and I know how I feelabout things. But there's often
things like I don't feel likeYou know, my husband doesn't
want to be on the Internet, so Idon't bring him into my content.

(55:45):
Am I gonna, like, people holdingthat against me? Like, leave me
alone. I don't know. I'm herefor what I'm here for. And
that's my decision, not myfollowers or my commenters
decision.
Right? You know?

Grace (55:57):
Well, Helen, it's so true. I love to hear you say it
though, because sometimes I Iyou've sometimes I feel like
you're too nice to everyone.

Helen (56:04):
I am too nice.

Grace (56:06):
But it is no. No. No. It is. It's your decision.
And I have people come in andsay, well, this is starting to
lean really conservative. And soI did a video where I said,
listen to me very carefully. Youwill not see my politics on this
page because I do not care toshare my politics with you. I
don't feel obligated. I don'towe you.
And if something's feeling away,then fucking keep scrolling. I

(56:28):
don't care. I'm not going to becowed into telling you things
about myself that I don't wishto share. And it's not part of
it. It just isn't part of it.
So It's not

Helen (56:37):
part of what makes you an expert at what you do. Yeah. It
really isn't. You know? And Iknow we can talk about that for
days in a whole separate podcastabout it.
But to me, it's like humandecency and the things I stand
for are who I am. And I I justdon't feel like I have to, prove
it to anybody by saying anythingin a certain way, one way or the

(56:58):
other. I like, I wanna alwayshave my content be the things
that I'm excited to share aboutand excited to talk about. And
that's how I feel. So you canfeel differently because it's
just good.
Like, I just

Grace (57:11):
Can I ask or so are the folks in this chat and in the
studio, is this more of, like,a, 30 audience? Is it younger?
Is it

Helen (57:21):
to me, I'm gonna say, knowing off the top quickly, 40,
but I don't know a few peoplepersonally here. But and, and,
Kara, you're young. You'reyoung. At least you seem young.

Grace (57:30):
So I think the benefit

Helen (57:31):
I don't know. I know everybody.

Grace (57:33):
Oh, oh, you guys. Okay. So I think the benefit of being
30

Helen (57:38):
Great. See, 40 Yes,

Grace (57:41):
You you do care just a little bit less of what other
people think.

Helen (57:45):
Yes. Amazing. That's so true.

Grace (57:47):
You are the most well placed 100.

Helen (57:51):
I first of all, I love that we just got to see this
because see seeing how people'sages are. Because I never know.
I don't associate age withpeople a lot of times. Of
course, Emily, you're young.I've see you I see your skin.
It's beautiful. It's so funny tosee now, like, how old people
are. I've never even thoughtabout it. And Louise, you're
such a baby. Love you.
I don't even know Louise yet,but I'm going to, I think.

Grace (58:11):
I think Louise is in my I think I've seen Louise come on
my stuff. I think Louise Louise

Helen (58:15):
needs to come into the studio. We need to get you in
the group.

Grace (58:18):
Yeah. We

Helen (58:18):
need to get you in the mix. It's so much fun.

Grace (58:20):
Well, I think the the mix. Yeah. You are in my group,
Louise. Yeah. I've seen you.
Okay. Thank you, Louise. I thinkthat it is so critical to be
building something alongsideother people who are building
the same thing. It is socritical and crucial that you

(58:40):
have other people who you canturn to and go, this just
happened. So, basically, I havea, informal social group.
It's not the studio. But I havepeople who are building similar
levels to me, and I sent them atext last night with a message
saying, about the girl who askedme to take something down. Like,
has this come up for anyone? Canyou guys help me think through
this?

Helen (58:59):
Wow. See? That's so important. Oh, my gosh.

Grace (59:01):
Do you is that something you guys can

Helen (59:03):
So we're gonna it's so funny that you say this, because
we're gonna start a WhatsAppgroup so that we can have a
chat. And that's happening thisweekend. I told Julie, I wanna
work on it this weekend, becauseI wanna make sure everybody has
time. And it's not like in themiddle of the work week, and
they're panicking, getting aWhatsApp message and they don't
know what to do. So I'm gonnaI'm gonna release it on the
weekend.
But that is what I'm lookingforward to. Because I do think
being able to bounce things offand seeing what other how other

(59:24):
people would handle something ishuge. Because what I'm doing
right now is giving the adviceon the things that people are
asking me privately, and thenI'm making posts about it. But
it's not you know, they're notable to pull the other people.
So this is really gonna beimportant.
I'm so proud.

Grace (59:37):
I might have Julie get me a backdoor into that WhatsApp.

Helen (59:40):
Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna enter the WhatsApp group. We
need we need you in the group.

Grace (59:43):
I think I you know, and it's what what happens then too
is, like, something that'sliving in your brain so crazily.
You show it to a friend of yourswho knows your content, and they
go, don't respond to this loser.Who cares?

Helen (59:55):
Right. Right. Right.

Grace (59:56):
You know what? You're right. I'll let that one go
today.

Helen (59:59):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a % true. I thought
that might happen in the studioin the feed, but it's not like
as as intuitive as Facebook.
Because, you know, when youbelong to a Facebook group and
somebody posts something, whatwould you do? And then you could
see all the comments of whatthey would do. I wanted it to be
something like that, but I don'tthink the Nas platform is really
delivering on that for me. Sothat's why I think the WhatsApp
group is gonna do it. It's gonnaI think it's gonna make us more

(01:00:22):
connected on topics.
It'll be easier. So I'm surehoping. I I'm I'm just loving
it. Go ahead.

Grace (01:00:28):
For people. But I also think it's so helpful to have
someone who who has literallychopped the path down. Like,
edutainment, Helen, was not athing when you started. No. It
really wasn't.
And now edutainment's only goingto really hit like it is not

Helen (01:00:45):
Edutainment. Edutainment. Yeah. Just making sure

Grace (01:00:48):
that's been added to So No.

Helen (01:00:50):
It's not.

Grace (01:00:53):
You guys all doing it's mostly entertainment content I
can see from

Helen (01:00:56):
sort of It seems like it. Yeah. It seems like that's what
it is. Because, I I mean, I justlove for me, it's like, I want
everybody to flourish and and,like, up their game by the
support of each other and alsosupport each other. Like, being
able to that's why the WhatsAppgroup will be able to put links
and everybody can go see eachother's videos more quickly.
So that's the idea. So you can,like, click. You can put your
link. Like, hey. I did thechallenge.

(01:01:17):
Pop the link in there. And thenit's quick, easy access for
everybody to see each other'scontent and support it.

Grace (01:01:23):
But I and I think the best use of you, Helen, is not
this is from someone who's beenusing Helen as my personal
studio master for for years.

Helen (01:01:30):
Okay.

Grace (01:01:30):
The best use is not the logistical tactical stuff. The
how do I do this? The what'sthis button that is like, I
don't think that's a good use

Helen (01:01:37):
of her

Grace (01:01:37):
time personally. I think it's going the this this, my
god. The strategic, the, like,this happened. How do I think
about it this way? Because I'mtelling you, anything you guys
have come up with, Helen hasseen it a hundred times.
Yeah. Canoe coming onto yourplate. She's seen it a thousand
times. So and this is for thisis for also people who are

(01:02:00):
listening, who follow Helen.When you she answers comments.
She answer as you as we justtalked about. So a really good
use of her, this is from someonewho's now built with a lot of
her help, is how do I thinkabout this? How can I think
about this? How can I approachthis? Because I guarantee you,
she will say it's gonna go thisway or this way or this way, and
here's how I do it.

Helen (01:02:21):
Okay. Amazing. You're the best. Thank you, Grace. Alright.
I want I think we should wrap itup because we're a little even
over the hour. Normally, I keepmy podcasts to, like, twenty to
thirty minutes, so I'm happythat but, no, I wanted to do a
nice hour one today, though.This was planned to be an hour.
I wanted to keep it and makesure we cover all the topics. I
wanted to get all the learningfrom you.
I've had so much fun having youhere and just, you know, we have

(01:02:43):
to get together in IRL verysoon.

Grace (01:02:46):
We will.

Helen (01:02:47):
I celebrated with Grace when she did her when how people
have baby showers and bridalshowers, and she had a work
shower when she launched herbusiness. And it was epic. It
was so much fun. I met so manygreat people. I think more
people need to do new newbusiness showers.
I love it.

Grace (01:03:01):
I I couldn't agree more.

Helen (01:03:02):
That was really good.

Grace (01:03:03):
I'm sorry. I think I progressively just got more and
more comfortable with cursingover the course of the episode,
so I apologize.

Helen (01:03:09):
I'm good with that. I I do that all the time. As a
matter of fact, sometimes whenpeople hear me either in a one
on one and I start, like, goingthey're like, oh, we never hear
you curse on your content. I'mlike, I don't curse in my
videos, but in in real life, youknow? Sorry.

Grace (01:03:22):
You're a new you're It's

Helen (01:03:24):
real life. I live in New York. Yes.

Grace (01:03:26):
Oh, Emily said don't worry. Thank you. Thank you guys
so much for being a part of thisconversation.

Helen (01:03:31):
Yeah. Thank you so much today. This has been great. I
want to do this again. We'llmaybe we'll maybe do a follow-up
and I'll have you back, butthank you for being here with me
today and everybody have a greatweekend and I'll see you next
Tuesday.
Bye. Thank you. I'm gonna stoprecording.