September 12, 2023 • 26 mins
As leaders we’re expected to be “all-in”, that’s the minimum, so what does that mean in today’s culture and what about the cost(s)? Based on quiet quitting and the proliferation of help wanted signs, the business pendulum seems to be swinging in the opposite direction. Is there a middle road, one where ‘all-in’ isn’t a recipe for burnout and illness, and detachment doesn’t mean going away or giving up? If so, how do we access it?
Stephanie and Maren have been talking about alternatives to the old ‘push, strive, make things happen’ paradigm, and today’s podcast explores yet another important aspect - how to be ‘all-in’ without losing your life. They discuss navigating the popular ‘letting go and trusting the unknown’ thought process, especially for those who are responsible for making things happen as well as many other aspects of this fascinating subject.
“My sense of self was dependent on whether I made this goal or not.” ~Maren Oslac
Leadership has been following a path that is no longer working. Looking to the past for answers is a recipe for more of the same. It’s time to radically change “business as usual” to be business as UNusual. It’s time to let go of the suffering we were told was necessary and embrace what Maren & Stephanie call ‘holding things lightly’.
- 00:41 Buddha: suffering comes from attachment
- 06:04 Setting internal structures to foster success instead of leadership failures and a deteriorated sense of self
- 11:17 The arrogance of ‘making’ things happen and the magic of ‘making’ space
- 17:00 Beyond conditioning, building the skill of daily surprise and delight
- 20:31 What does your future self have to say about it?
“Receptivity requires space and consciousness and a skill to actually be present and be still.” ~Stephanie Allen
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maren Oslac (00:04):
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (00:20):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast,
Maren Oslac (00:29):
sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Welcome to the soulful leaderpodcast. This is Maren and I'm
here with Stephanie. And we werejust having a fairly fun and
(00:50):
animated conversation aboutholding things lightly. And what
the heck does that mean?
Stephanie, do you want to talk alittle bit about what that means
to you, holding somethinglightly?
Stephanie Allen (01:03):
Yeah, I think, you know, the Buddha often said,
you know, suffering comes whenwe're attached to an outcome or
a way of being or the past, theway it was. Like any kind of
attach an attachment is going tocreate suffering. And yet we get
conflicted, because as leaders,you know, we have goals, we have
things that we want to set upand make happen. And often
(01:27):
spirit has a very differenttiming than what, you know what
little Stephanie has an idea of,and how do I let go of control?
And how do I let go and trustthe unknown, when I'm also being
responsible to make thingshappen?
Maren Oslac (01:44):
Alright. So we have this binary idea binary being
this or that. So we have this, Ifeel like I was raised in a
culture that told me that iteither happens or it doesn't. It
either happens on your timeline,or you're not good enough,
you're like, there's this eitheror proposition that's going on,
Stephanie Allen (02:06):
instead of a both and.
Maren Oslac (02:07):
Instead of a both and. So the both and, I think
for me, the the holding itlightly, which we're just
talking about is the suffering,what you're talking about with
the Buddha says the sufferingcomes from our attachment to
things. So if I set my goal as aleader, or maybe even for my
(02:28):
team, and we don't reach it,now, I have suffering because
I'm not good enough. We're notgood enough. We didn't do
enough, like whatever the dramais, whatever the story is that I
want to talk to say about it,right? And that creates a
suffering like, oh, shoot,right? drama, drama, drama, we
(02:51):
have to do better, we have topush more, we have to put in
more time, I don't get to see mykids, I don't, like whatever the
drama is. If I can look at it asa both and of I set the goal,
and we have this intention, Ithink of them more as
intentions, that we're going tomeet this, and when we don't, or
(03:14):
if we don't, it's because one ofthe things that I can do in the
process is hold that lightly andbe aware of what are the other
things that are incoming. Sowhat I mean by that, and the
reason I kind of sigh is likethere's this whole rabbit hole
of stuff that I want to go down.
First and foremost, I think Iwant to talk about, if I don't
(03:38):
achieve whatever it is that Iwanted to achieve, with my team
with myself, whatever it is,there will always been something
that I learned. So there has tobe some reflection, there has to
be some sort of looking back at,instead of just a, an either or
we did it or we didn't do it.
(04:02):
There's a huge gray area that'sboth and of we didn't do it, and
we learned X, Y and Z. Right. Sothat's first and foremost.
Secondly, when I think ofholding it lightly, is I might
have been being asked by spirit,by life, to go in a different
direction and if I'm holding onto this goal that I set, maybe
(04:25):
the whole reason that I wantedthat, I've lost track. This.
I've got a great example ofthis, my studio, I opened my
studio with the intention ofallowing my, making enough money
so that I could allow my husbandto stop working in the financial
trading industry which wasliterally causing him, he ended
(04:48):
up with a massive coronarybecause of being in that
industry. It was such a highstress industry. And I wanted
him to be able to do what heloved as a passion, instead of
doing something to make usmoney, and he really enjoyed the
industry, etcetera, etcetera,and it was time for him to be
(05:11):
out of it. In the middle of myrunning the studio and starting
to build it, I inherited somemoney from my dad, enough money
for my husband to no longer haveto be in the financial trading
industry. I lost sight of thatsomewhere along the line with
the studio, and I was head down,butt up, I have to make my goal,
(05:35):
not realizing that spirit hadgiven me what I wanted from this
total left field. And I waslike, No, I said, I was gonna
make it this way, it has to looklike this.
Stephanie Allen (05:48):
So you became very rigid in your version of
how it was supposed to be. Yep.
And didn't make any space forpossibility of how Spirit wanted
it to unfold. Right, is what I'mhearing you say?
Maren Oslac (06:04):
Very much. So. And when we talk about the
attachment I became attached to,my sense of self was dependent
on whether I made this goal ornot. My leadership in my team
felt like I was a failure as aleader, if, as a team, we
(06:25):
weren't making our goal that wemade enough money. And it just
became a vicious cycle that Ididn't need to get into at all.
Because I had a goal and spiritgave me what I needed what I
asked for, here's what I want,
Stephanie Allen (06:44):
you know what, what I'm hearing too is like, it
reminds me of scaffolding. Likeyou know, when we're trying to
renovate a building, we put anouter scaffolding up, so that we
can fix the facade of the outer.
That's kind of what we do in ourlives, whether it's with
relationship or health, orfinances or business, whatever,
right? We kind of look at thewhat are the outer things that
(07:06):
need to happen. And what I'mhearing is that here, you had
inherited a wonderful supportsystem from your father. So you
know, but you weren't able toreally value it, because the
internal structure was not beingas valued as the external,
thinking that you, if that makessense, if you know, that it's
(07:30):
like, well, but the outer worldsees me as unsuccessful because
I haven't made the money in myteam or in, you know, the
leadership role in the danceworld, or whatever in the
studio. But yet the internal wasgifted to you. And so because
the internal scaffolding insidethe self worth the self esteem,
the self image, the identities,the belief systems, that's all
(07:53):
internal narratives, becausethose weren't in place to really
love and nurture you. It washard to really receive and
really value it is what I'mhearing. Does that sound?
Maren Oslac (08:06):
Yeah, I know, I hadn't thought of it like that.
And I think that's very true.
You know, and I think thatthat's oftentimes maybe why we
stay attached to, you know, forme, in that instance, it's
probably very much why I stayedattached to, but I have to make
this goal in this way. Becausethen I will build up my self
(08:27):
esteem. And I'll have, you know,oh, yeah,
Stephanie Allen (08:33):
and reverse, right. And then this will
Maren Oslac (08:36):
then this will happen. Instead of putting that,
happen. Yeah.
instead of, like, yeah, insteadof believing in myself, and
saying, I am worthy, I amworthwhile, I am these things. I
put all of that on, once I havethis, then that will be proof
that I am worthy. I'm goodenough. I've proved myself I can
(08:57):
do this I and I was like howoften we do that to ourselves as
leaders, we have to proveourselves. And we set these
external goals and externalthings, in order to make
ourselves good enough. When thetruth of it is that we're born
(09:18):
good enough. That's not whatwe're taught in this culture in
any
Stephanie Allen (09:24):
We're conditioned, we're condtioned
out of it. And then we believethat conditioning is true,
rather than being curious andbeing open to being surprised
and delighted about what spiritmight have in store for us.
Maren Oslac (09:37):
So I want to bring us back to holding it lightly.
Just as you said that thesurprise and delighting us
because when we can holdsomething lightly, so if for
example, if I had been able tohold that goal lightly, and not
put all of my own self esteemand all of my drama on it, I
(09:59):
would have been surprised anddelighted instead of not sure
what to do with, and I mean, itmakes it sound like I didn't
appreciate what I inherited frommy dad, I did, very much so. And
I still chose the suffering, ofnot being good enough over
Stephanie Allen (10:23):
And that's the conditioning
Maren Oslac (10:24):
right, over the surprise and the delight of oh
my gosh, Jeff, we both have theresources now to do what we want
to do. And I have this vision,this backwards vision, because
it's looking back at how I couldhave led differently within my
(10:49):
studio, if I had come from thatplace of abundance. Instead of
we're still striving to,striving to make it happen. We
made amazing things happen,don't get me wrong. It was more
of like, I probably would havehad a lot more energy, and been
a much better leader and beenfriendlier and been et cetera,
(11:09):
et cetera, all of the things ifI had come from a place of like,
Oh, all right, we're now just inabundance.
Stephanie Allen (11:17):
I think there there takes a certain level of,
of humility in that way of likesurrendering, which is humility
to me. But it's also thatconditioning makes us you know,
that old conditioning, sayingthat we have to make it happen,
becomes arrogant. And it becomesmaking us take everything
personally so that we take otherpeople's opinions of us
(11:38):
personally, or our bank account,personally, or our physical body
and how it's working or notworking personally, either
arrogantly or self sabotaging.
Instead of letting all of thatgo holding it lightly and going,
Oh, that's interesting. Youknow, and letting go of those
old stories that we've beenconditioned to tell ourselves.
Like, what if, what if none ofthat was true? What if I'm
(12:02):
actually here, like, I've heardit so many times. I'm like, this
is a school earth, the earthschool. And I was just having a
conversation with one of myfellow colleagues yesterday, and
I said, anytime I've ever triedto make money, I feel terribly,
like I just fail. Because I'mattached to it. My ego is
(12:22):
involved in it my ego, which Icall Edging God Out. E G O, ego,
Edging God Out. And for me,relationship is so important. So
if that is true, if relationshipis very important, my
relationship with the one whosent me here, where's that in my
priority? And not me trying tobe like a drive thru. You know,
(12:44):
y'all have to burgers and friesplease with that, you know, to
spirit. It's like really havinga conversation. If I was in a
divine marriage with that lovingpresence, I'd say hey, you know,
I'm thinking about doing this orI would like to like to create
this in my life, what do youthink? and not from a
codependent place either ofsaying, Okay, I'll just
(13:07):
surrender everything andobviously, if it's meant to be
it's meant to be, it'll happen.
That's codependent. And setting,it's an actual give and take
it's an actual both. And it'slike, I have this longing or
desire in my heart, or a need,or an ideal, what do you think
(13:27):
spirit? Like, where are you withthis? And can we work with this?
Because I can guarantee youspirit has a bigger plan for
you, than you'll ever be able toconceptualize or to, you know,
cultivate within your mind. Andyet, I have to make space in
order to receive that.
Otherwise, I'm going to beholding on to it so tightly,
there's no space, like, if youjust clench your fists as if
(13:48):
you're holding on to a rope,there's no space, your hands are
in a, a fist you're fighting it,instead of opening, holding it
lightly, like not letting ittotally go in the way of your
hands wide open, your palms arespread open, but that you're
you're soft, and that if youneed to hold on, you can grab it
quickly. Or if you need to letit go. You can grab it, you can
let it go easily but it's atboth end. But it's really about
(14:11):
that relationship with with yourhigher self or your future self
or your you know, higher power,whatever word you want to
spirit, whatever your godwhatever, whatever your language
is, and I think that's what's somissed in, in creating our lives
in our world and ourrelationships with each other is
(14:31):
that we forget that there's anactual another entity, even our
businesses, it are a livingbeing. You know, we you talk to
great artists and they'll say, Ihave no idea. I just made space
and it came through me I createdit. But what was your practice
to make space to have it comethrough? I'm really curious
about that.
Maren Oslac (14:51):
Yeah. I think that that's the key is there needs to
be a building of thatrelationship of What does it
mean to hold it lightly? It'snot, it's not something that
just happens overnight. I thinkthat because we are spiritual
beings, that oftentimes, there'sthis assumption that, well, I
(15:17):
should just be able to know, Ijust know, I'll just know,
instead of that there is a typeof work that needs to be done to
build that relationship. And Isee this often in marriages to
have, once you get married,you're just supposed to know how
to be a married person. Or we'rejust supposed to know,
Stephanie Allen (15:39):
it's a skill,
Maren Oslac (15:41):
how does one be in relationship, whether it's as a
team leader, or it's as ahusband or wife, or it's a
mother or father or child? It'slike, we, we don't just innately
know how to be in relationship.
And that's true with even withour own higher calling are, like
why we're on the planet. And itseems like counterintuitive,
(16:06):
that, that we wouldn't know. Andyet, like you said, we're
conditioned out of it. Andthere's a good reason that we're
conditioned out of it. Andbecause we're in school, right,
we were meant to the first halfof our lives, basically get
conditioned out of what we know.
(16:29):
And then the second half ourlives, unlearn all of that and
get to our wisdom, our trueinner wisdom. And part of that
is learning to hold thingslightly, to put all of yourself
into it. And also let gocompletely. And that may sound
(16:52):
like huh, those two things don'twork together. And and yet, they
Yeah, push them through.
Stephanie Allen (16:58):
So something that I offer as a practice in
do.
Yeah, receptivity requires spaceand consciousness and a skill to
(17:24):
actually be present and bestill. So in yoga, I often say
yin yoga was yoga is reallyabout going inside. And it's
where we want to play in the inthe area, is at the area of
comfortably uncomfortable. Inorder to grow and change, you're
going to need to beuncomfortable. That's actually a
really good thing. If you're notuncomfortable, I would say,
(17:44):
you're probably not challengedyourself, you're probably
actually retracting and gettingsmaller and smaller, you're not
growing. But it doesn't meanthat you are like think of a
stretch, it doesn't mean thatyou are pushing yourself in a
stretch so hard that yourmuscles gonna snap. That's not
good either. But where you takeit is just taking it to the edge
embracing the receptivity-nessbecause you know, we're so good
of where you go, Oh, yeah, Ifeel my muscles stretching here.
(18:07):
And then instead of running awayor backing away from it, which
is also pushing into or pushinginto it, it's those two
extremes. You meet theuncomfortability with love and
curiosity. And that, to me isholding that's to me holding it
lightly. Yeah, I'm beingpresent. And I'm not judging it
(18:28):
as right or wrong or good orbad. I am staying curious and
open going. And I wonder whatwants to happen here. And as I
let go of my agenda, which wouldoften be my ego, amazing things
at working the muscle of makingthings happen, like doing it out
happen, things that I don't evereven plan or, like, I'm
surprised and delighted. And Ithink that's the key that we
(18:49):
haven't learned how to build askill with is to be in the place
of like, oh, let me be surprisedand delighted today. Let me let
me someone said the other day, Iheard wherever there's a
trigger, wherever you'reirritated, also be aware of the
glimmer. Because a triggeralways gives way to a glimmer.
And you can you can actually seeboth. And where you put your
(19:10):
attention or your yourawareness, or your energy is
where you're going to invest.
And if you can hold both, that'swhere the transformation
happens. That's where actuallythere.
you'll get lifted up to a wholenew way.
Maren Oslac (19:24):
I love that. And that's perfect. Because that's
right in that place ofuncomfortable. comfortability,
is that what you call it?
Stephanie Allen (19:32):
Comfortably uncomfortable,
Maren Oslac (19:34):
comfortably uncomfortable.
Stephanie Allen (19:35):
You had mentioned something about, you
know, you have a goal in mind.
And sometimes, you know, a lotof times you're when you're
working with your clients,they'll say, Well, I just I just
forced myself to do it. I justmade myself get out there and do
that run. And sometimes thatthat's true, it is what it is.
But what if it was another wayand I often would say to
clients, put the end in mind. Ifyou go In your past, your little
(19:58):
self, your younger version ofyourself is going to be freaked
out, it's always gonna beanxious, because your three year
old has no skill on how to bemarried, how to run a business,
how to parent a child, how topay bills, it has no idea. And
so you're freaking out yourthree year old right now. Your
three year old is really greatat being curious. So, and really
great at being playful andhaving a new mind. So you might
(20:22):
want to make friends with thatthree year old. That's where you
can really embrace it, versussaying, wait a minute, put the
end in mind, you know, your self30 years from now is going to
see your present moment very,very differently. And that's the
relationship I'm talking aboutbuilding is build a relationship
with that being who's living inthe ideal future. It's not about
(20:45):
you figuring out what that is,it's about you building a
practice or a skill set to beable to tune into that, to tune
in and tune up to that level ofthat being in your future that
can say, Yeah, I know where youare. Stephanie, I was there. I
didn't there. And having adialogue, having an experience
(21:08):
with that being, you know,seeing feeling hearing that
presence. And as that person isthis bring us closer that you
know, the choice a decision, isthis going to help us get closer
to that or further away? Howwill I feel from your
perspective, looking back tothis time. And then that way, so
trying to willfully do it, mywill is now becomes my love. And
(21:34):
I do need both, i Both needwillpower and love power.
Maren Oslac (21:42):
Yeah, it makes it so much easier to a hold it
lightly and be show up, which isboth of those needs to happen.
That's really essential.
Stephanie Allen (21:53):
Because if you're doing your will, from a
fear place, you're going to holdon for dear life because your
false evidence appearing real,you're going to hang on. And
guess what that moving thingthat you're hanging on to, it's
going to hurt like hell. Andit's gonna force you to let go.
But versus something that youlove. I always say like, as a
lover, you surrender into thatlove, like you just like, Oh,
(22:16):
you've trust, you relax, you letgo, you allow the arms of the
Divine or the beloved to holdyou. And that takes practice,
because you have to change theinternal scaffolding the
internal structures, so that youcan rest into it. And you have
control over that. I think wethink we don't have any control.
(22:37):
Because we think control is allout there. Guess what control
out there doesn't exist. Youcan't control any of it, the
only thing you can control areyour internal structures. And
that is going to change theouter facade, trust me, and it's
not going to end up looking whatyou think it's going to looking
like. In fact, it's going to bebetter.
Maren Oslac (22:53):
Yes. And that's what you were saying earlier of,
you know, those were myinternals that didn't let me
embrace that. And that's fine.
It's like I obviously, I'm notgonna go back and do that
differently. And going forward,I will do that differently. It's
like, oh, I don't
Stephanie Allen (23:12):
What wants to happen?
Maren Oslac (23:13):
Yeah. And I can embrace the the magic that could
have happened. And now in thefuture, I will enva, embrace the
magic that will happen, becauseI'll have that tool now. Going
forward. And that's how welearn, right? We learn because
we looked back and we go ah, oh,that wasn't as skillfully done
(23:36):
as I could have done it. Great.
Stephanie Allen (23:38):
Again, no, no, right, wrong, good, bad, shame,
blame thing. It's just like,hey, you know, can I do this,
but it's like, you know, anyathlete is gonna watch the game
on the replay, and they're gonnaslow it down, they're gonna look
at, oh, if I just moved my bodythis way, or I reached out that
way, or I didn't even see thatmy teammate over here was wide
(23:59):
open, you're gonna start to go,Oh, I know. I know. I would do
things differently. But if wekeep coming from our past, doing
the same thing that we've alwaysdone, that's, what does that
mean? What's the definition ofinsanity,
Maren Oslac (24:12):
That's Insanity,
Stephanie Allen (24:13):
right, doing the same thing again, and again,
again, hoping for a differentresult. That's insane. We have
to get out, outside of time andspace and presence our future
that wants to happen. And thenwork reverse engineering. Go
backwards. Yeah. And there'sinternal structures are so
important because you get a goodwindstorm, you get a good
(24:34):
earthquake, you get whatever andall of a sudden, you're you're
gone because if those internalcapacity, those internal
structures are not in place,there isn't any growth. There
isn't any resiliency, thereisn't any evolution because
you're you're shattered. And asnature when nature shatters, it
provides food for the next levelof growth. So there is no there
(24:55):
is no shame. So even if yourstructure falls down, oops,
okay. What did I learn? Cool.
Let's do this. Again. I wasfeeding the environment. This is
great, good food.
Maren Oslac (25:04):
It was great food.
And it's, I'm hoping that it wasalso good food for you all
because my lessons will helpyour skill, right. And it is
it's all about building skilland learning and building more
skill and learning and buildingmore skill. So there is so much
to chew on from today's podcast,we would love to hear from you
(25:27):
either in our Facebook page oron our LinkedIn page. What did
you get out of today's podcast?
Drop a line for us, and that'sat the soulful leaders. You can
also find us on YouTube. Andremember that our show notes are
available. So you can find thoseon any of your podcast platforms
(25:49):
or on our website,theSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com.
We'll see you all next week.
Thanks for listening.
Stephanie Allen (26:04):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (26:11):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website attheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (26:21):
Until next time,
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (00:20):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast,
Maren Oslac (00:29):
sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Welcome to the soulful leaderpodcast. This is Maren and I'm
here with Stephanie. And we werejust having a fairly fun and
(00:50):
animated conversation aboutholding things lightly. And what
the heck does that mean?
Stephanie, do you want to talk alittle bit about what that means
to you, holding somethinglightly?
Stephanie Allen (01:03):
Yeah, I think, you know, the Buddha often said,
you know, suffering comes whenwe're attached to an outcome or
a way of being or the past, theway it was. Like any kind of
attach an attachment is going tocreate suffering. And yet we get
conflicted, because as leaders,you know, we have goals, we have
things that we want to set upand make happen. And often
(01:27):
spirit has a very differenttiming than what, you know what
little Stephanie has an idea of,and how do I let go of control?
And how do I let go and trustthe unknown, when I'm also being
responsible to make thingshappen?
Maren Oslac (01:44):
Alright. So we have this binary idea binary being
this or that. So we have this, Ifeel like I was raised in a
culture that told me that iteither happens or it doesn't. It
either happens on your timeline,or you're not good enough,
you're like, there's this eitheror proposition that's going on,
Stephanie Allen (02:06):
instead of a both and.
Maren Oslac (02:07):
Instead of a both and. So the both and, I think
for me, the the holding itlightly, which we're just
talking about is the suffering,what you're talking about with
the Buddha says the sufferingcomes from our attachment to
things. So if I set my goal as aleader, or maybe even for my
(02:28):
team, and we don't reach it,now, I have suffering because
I'm not good enough. We're notgood enough. We didn't do
enough, like whatever the dramais, whatever the story is that I
want to talk to say about it,right? And that creates a
suffering like, oh, shoot,right? drama, drama, drama, we
(02:51):
have to do better, we have topush more, we have to put in
more time, I don't get to see mykids, I don't, like whatever the
drama is. If I can look at it asa both and of I set the goal,
and we have this intention, Ithink of them more as
intentions, that we're going tomeet this, and when we don't, or
(03:14):
if we don't, it's because one ofthe things that I can do in the
process is hold that lightly andbe aware of what are the other
things that are incoming. Sowhat I mean by that, and the
reason I kind of sigh is likethere's this whole rabbit hole
of stuff that I want to go down.
First and foremost, I think Iwant to talk about, if I don't
(03:38):
achieve whatever it is that Iwanted to achieve, with my team
with myself, whatever it is,there will always been something
that I learned. So there has tobe some reflection, there has to
be some sort of looking back at,instead of just a, an either or
we did it or we didn't do it.
(04:02):
There's a huge gray area that'sboth and of we didn't do it, and
we learned X, Y and Z. Right. Sothat's first and foremost.
Secondly, when I think ofholding it lightly, is I might
have been being asked by spirit,by life, to go in a different
direction and if I'm holding onto this goal that I set, maybe
(04:25):
the whole reason that I wantedthat, I've lost track. This.
I've got a great example ofthis, my studio, I opened my
studio with the intention ofallowing my, making enough money
so that I could allow my husbandto stop working in the financial
trading industry which wasliterally causing him, he ended
(04:48):
up with a massive coronarybecause of being in that
industry. It was such a highstress industry. And I wanted
him to be able to do what heloved as a passion, instead of
doing something to make usmoney, and he really enjoyed the
industry, etcetera, etcetera,and it was time for him to be
(05:11):
out of it. In the middle of myrunning the studio and starting
to build it, I inherited somemoney from my dad, enough money
for my husband to no longer haveto be in the financial trading
industry. I lost sight of thatsomewhere along the line with
the studio, and I was head down,butt up, I have to make my goal,
(05:35):
not realizing that spirit hadgiven me what I wanted from this
total left field. And I waslike, No, I said, I was gonna
make it this way, it has to looklike this.
Stephanie Allen (05:48):
So you became very rigid in your version of
how it was supposed to be. Yep.
And didn't make any space forpossibility of how Spirit wanted
it to unfold. Right, is what I'mhearing you say?
Maren Oslac (06:04):
Very much. So. And when we talk about the
attachment I became attached to,my sense of self was dependent
on whether I made this goal ornot. My leadership in my team
felt like I was a failure as aleader, if, as a team, we
(06:25):
weren't making our goal that wemade enough money. And it just
became a vicious cycle that Ididn't need to get into at all.
Because I had a goal and spiritgave me what I needed what I
asked for, here's what I want,
Stephanie Allen (06:44):
you know what, what I'm hearing too is like, it
reminds me of scaffolding. Likeyou know, when we're trying to
renovate a building, we put anouter scaffolding up, so that we
can fix the facade of the outer.
That's kind of what we do in ourlives, whether it's with
relationship or health, orfinances or business, whatever,
right? We kind of look at thewhat are the outer things that
(07:06):
need to happen. And what I'mhearing is that here, you had
inherited a wonderful supportsystem from your father. So you
know, but you weren't able toreally value it, because the
internal structure was not beingas valued as the external,
thinking that you, if that makessense, if you know, that it's
(07:30):
like, well, but the outer worldsees me as unsuccessful because
I haven't made the money in myteam or in, you know, the
leadership role in the danceworld, or whatever in the
studio. But yet the internal wasgifted to you. And so because
the internal scaffolding insidethe self worth the self esteem,
the self image, the identities,the belief systems, that's all
(07:53):
internal narratives, becausethose weren't in place to really
love and nurture you. It washard to really receive and
really value it is what I'mhearing. Does that sound?
Maren Oslac (08:06):
Yeah, I know, I hadn't thought of it like that.
And I think that's very true.
You know, and I think thatthat's oftentimes maybe why we
stay attached to, you know, forme, in that instance, it's
probably very much why I stayedattached to, but I have to make
this goal in this way. Becausethen I will build up my self
(08:27):
esteem. And I'll have, you know,oh, yeah,
Stephanie Allen (08:33):
and reverse, right. And then this will
Maren Oslac (08:36):
then this will happen. Instead of putting that,
happen. Yeah.
instead of, like, yeah, insteadof believing in myself, and
saying, I am worthy, I amworthwhile, I am these things. I
put all of that on, once I havethis, then that will be proof
that I am worthy. I'm goodenough. I've proved myself I can
(08:57):
do this I and I was like howoften we do that to ourselves as
leaders, we have to proveourselves. And we set these
external goals and externalthings, in order to make
ourselves good enough. When thetruth of it is that we're born
(09:18):
good enough. That's not whatwe're taught in this culture in
any
Stephanie Allen (09:24):
We're conditioned, we're condtioned
out of it. And then we believethat conditioning is true,
rather than being curious andbeing open to being surprised
and delighted about what spiritmight have in store for us.
Maren Oslac (09:37):
So I want to bring us back to holding it lightly.
Just as you said that thesurprise and delighting us
because when we can holdsomething lightly, so if for
example, if I had been able tohold that goal lightly, and not
put all of my own self esteemand all of my drama on it, I
(09:59):
would have been surprised anddelighted instead of not sure
what to do with, and I mean, itmakes it sound like I didn't
appreciate what I inherited frommy dad, I did, very much so. And
I still chose the suffering, ofnot being good enough over
Stephanie Allen (10:23):
And that's the conditioning
Maren Oslac (10:24):
right, over the surprise and the delight of oh
my gosh, Jeff, we both have theresources now to do what we want
to do. And I have this vision,this backwards vision, because
it's looking back at how I couldhave led differently within my
(10:49):
studio, if I had come from thatplace of abundance. Instead of
we're still striving to,striving to make it happen. We
made amazing things happen,don't get me wrong. It was more
of like, I probably would havehad a lot more energy, and been
a much better leader and beenfriendlier and been et cetera,
(11:09):
et cetera, all of the things ifI had come from a place of like,
Oh, all right, we're now just inabundance.
Stephanie Allen (11:17):
I think there there takes a certain level of,
of humility in that way of likesurrendering, which is humility
to me. But it's also thatconditioning makes us you know,
that old conditioning, sayingthat we have to make it happen,
becomes arrogant. And it becomesmaking us take everything
personally so that we take otherpeople's opinions of us
(11:38):
personally, or our bank account,personally, or our physical body
and how it's working or notworking personally, either
arrogantly or self sabotaging.
Instead of letting all of thatgo holding it lightly and going,
Oh, that's interesting. Youknow, and letting go of those
old stories that we've beenconditioned to tell ourselves.
Like, what if, what if none ofthat was true? What if I'm
(12:02):
actually here, like, I've heardit so many times. I'm like, this
is a school earth, the earthschool. And I was just having a
conversation with one of myfellow colleagues yesterday, and
I said, anytime I've ever triedto make money, I feel terribly,
like I just fail. Because I'mattached to it. My ego is
(12:22):
involved in it my ego, which Icall Edging God Out. E G O, ego,
Edging God Out. And for me,relationship is so important. So
if that is true, if relationshipis very important, my
relationship with the one whosent me here, where's that in my
priority? And not me trying tobe like a drive thru. You know,
(12:44):
y'all have to burgers and friesplease with that, you know, to
spirit. It's like really havinga conversation. If I was in a
divine marriage with that lovingpresence, I'd say hey, you know,
I'm thinking about doing this orI would like to like to create
this in my life, what do youthink? and not from a
codependent place either ofsaying, Okay, I'll just
(13:07):
surrender everything andobviously, if it's meant to be
it's meant to be, it'll happen.
That's codependent. And setting,it's an actual give and take
it's an actual both. And it'slike, I have this longing or
desire in my heart, or a need,or an ideal, what do you think
(13:27):
spirit? Like, where are you withthis? And can we work with this?
Because I can guarantee youspirit has a bigger plan for
you, than you'll ever be able toconceptualize or to, you know,
cultivate within your mind. Andyet, I have to make space in
order to receive that.
Otherwise, I'm going to beholding on to it so tightly,
there's no space, like, if youjust clench your fists as if
(13:48):
you're holding on to a rope,there's no space, your hands are
in a, a fist you're fighting it,instead of opening, holding it
lightly, like not letting ittotally go in the way of your
hands wide open, your palms arespread open, but that you're
you're soft, and that if youneed to hold on, you can grab it
quickly. Or if you need to letit go. You can grab it, you can
let it go easily but it's atboth end. But it's really about
(14:11):
that relationship with with yourhigher self or your future self
or your you know, higher power,whatever word you want to
spirit, whatever your godwhatever, whatever your language
is, and I think that's what's somissed in, in creating our lives
in our world and ourrelationships with each other is
(14:31):
that we forget that there's anactual another entity, even our
businesses, it are a livingbeing. You know, we you talk to
great artists and they'll say, Ihave no idea. I just made space
and it came through me I createdit. But what was your practice
to make space to have it comethrough? I'm really curious
about that.
Maren Oslac (14:51):
Yeah. I think that that's the key is there needs to
be a building of thatrelationship of What does it
mean to hold it lightly? It'snot, it's not something that
just happens overnight. I thinkthat because we are spiritual
beings, that oftentimes, there'sthis assumption that, well, I
(15:17):
should just be able to know, Ijust know, I'll just know,
instead of that there is a typeof work that needs to be done to
build that relationship. And Isee this often in marriages to
have, once you get married,you're just supposed to know how
to be a married person. Or we'rejust supposed to know,
Stephanie Allen (15:39):
it's a skill,
Maren Oslac (15:41):
how does one be in relationship, whether it's as a
team leader, or it's as ahusband or wife, or it's a
mother or father or child? It'slike, we, we don't just innately
know how to be in relationship.
And that's true with even withour own higher calling are, like
why we're on the planet. And itseems like counterintuitive,
(16:06):
that, that we wouldn't know. Andyet, like you said, we're
conditioned out of it. Andthere's a good reason that we're
conditioned out of it. Andbecause we're in school, right,
we were meant to the first halfof our lives, basically get
conditioned out of what we know.
(16:29):
And then the second half ourlives, unlearn all of that and
get to our wisdom, our trueinner wisdom. And part of that
is learning to hold thingslightly, to put all of yourself
into it. And also let gocompletely. And that may sound
(16:52):
like huh, those two things don'twork together. And and yet, they
Yeah, push them through.
Stephanie Allen (16:58):
So something that I offer as a practice in
do.
Yeah, receptivity requires spaceand consciousness and a skill to
(17:24):
actually be present and bestill. So in yoga, I often say
yin yoga was yoga is reallyabout going inside. And it's
where we want to play in the inthe area, is at the area of
comfortably uncomfortable. Inorder to grow and change, you're
going to need to beuncomfortable. That's actually a
really good thing. If you're notuncomfortable, I would say,
(17:44):
you're probably not challengedyourself, you're probably
actually retracting and gettingsmaller and smaller, you're not
growing. But it doesn't meanthat you are like think of a
stretch, it doesn't mean thatyou are pushing yourself in a
stretch so hard that yourmuscles gonna snap. That's not
good either. But where you takeit is just taking it to the edge
embracing the receptivity-nessbecause you know, we're so good
of where you go, Oh, yeah, Ifeel my muscles stretching here.
(18:07):
And then instead of running awayor backing away from it, which
is also pushing into or pushinginto it, it's those two
extremes. You meet theuncomfortability with love and
curiosity. And that, to me isholding that's to me holding it
lightly. Yeah, I'm beingpresent. And I'm not judging it
(18:28):
as right or wrong or good orbad. I am staying curious and
open going. And I wonder whatwants to happen here. And as I
let go of my agenda, which wouldoften be my ego, amazing things
at working the muscle of makingthings happen, like doing it out
happen, things that I don't evereven plan or, like, I'm
surprised and delighted. And Ithink that's the key that we
(18:49):
haven't learned how to build askill with is to be in the place
of like, oh, let me be surprisedand delighted today. Let me let
me someone said the other day, Iheard wherever there's a
trigger, wherever you'reirritated, also be aware of the
glimmer. Because a triggeralways gives way to a glimmer.
And you can you can actually seeboth. And where you put your
(19:10):
attention or your yourawareness, or your energy is
where you're going to invest.
And if you can hold both, that'swhere the transformation
happens. That's where actuallythere.
you'll get lifted up to a wholenew way.
Maren Oslac (19:24):
I love that. And that's perfect. Because that's
right in that place ofuncomfortable. comfortability,
is that what you call it?
Stephanie Allen (19:32):
Comfortably uncomfortable,
Maren Oslac (19:34):
comfortably uncomfortable.
Stephanie Allen (19:35):
You had mentioned something about, you
know, you have a goal in mind.
And sometimes, you know, a lotof times you're when you're
working with your clients,they'll say, Well, I just I just
forced myself to do it. I justmade myself get out there and do
that run. And sometimes thatthat's true, it is what it is.
But what if it was another wayand I often would say to
clients, put the end in mind. Ifyou go In your past, your little
(19:58):
self, your younger version ofyourself is going to be freaked
out, it's always gonna beanxious, because your three year
old has no skill on how to bemarried, how to run a business,
how to parent a child, how topay bills, it has no idea. And
so you're freaking out yourthree year old right now. Your
three year old is really greatat being curious. So, and really
great at being playful andhaving a new mind. So you might
(20:22):
want to make friends with thatthree year old. That's where you
can really embrace it, versussaying, wait a minute, put the
end in mind, you know, your self30 years from now is going to
see your present moment very,very differently. And that's the
relationship I'm talking aboutbuilding is build a relationship
with that being who's living inthe ideal future. It's not about
(20:45):
you figuring out what that is,it's about you building a
practice or a skill set to beable to tune into that, to tune
in and tune up to that level ofthat being in your future that
can say, Yeah, I know where youare. Stephanie, I was there. I
didn't there. And having adialogue, having an experience
(21:08):
with that being, you know,seeing feeling hearing that
presence. And as that person isthis bring us closer that you
know, the choice a decision, isthis going to help us get closer
to that or further away? Howwill I feel from your
perspective, looking back tothis time. And then that way, so
trying to willfully do it, mywill is now becomes my love. And
(21:34):
I do need both, i Both needwillpower and love power.
Maren Oslac (21:42):
Yeah, it makes it so much easier to a hold it
lightly and be show up, which isboth of those needs to happen.
That's really essential.
Stephanie Allen (21:53):
Because if you're doing your will, from a
fear place, you're going to holdon for dear life because your
false evidence appearing real,you're going to hang on. And
guess what that moving thingthat you're hanging on to, it's
going to hurt like hell. Andit's gonna force you to let go.
But versus something that youlove. I always say like, as a
lover, you surrender into thatlove, like you just like, Oh,
(22:16):
you've trust, you relax, you letgo, you allow the arms of the
Divine or the beloved to holdyou. And that takes practice,
because you have to change theinternal scaffolding the
internal structures, so that youcan rest into it. And you have
control over that. I think wethink we don't have any control.
(22:37):
Because we think control is allout there. Guess what control
out there doesn't exist. Youcan't control any of it, the
only thing you can control areyour internal structures. And
that is going to change theouter facade, trust me, and it's
not going to end up looking whatyou think it's going to looking
like. In fact, it's going to bebetter.
Maren Oslac (22:53):
Yes. And that's what you were saying earlier of,
you know, those were myinternals that didn't let me
embrace that. And that's fine.
It's like I obviously, I'm notgonna go back and do that
differently. And going forward,I will do that differently. It's
like, oh, I don't
Stephanie Allen (23:12):
What wants to happen?
Maren Oslac (23:13):
Yeah. And I can embrace the the magic that could
have happened. And now in thefuture, I will enva, embrace the
magic that will happen, becauseI'll have that tool now. Going
forward. And that's how welearn, right? We learn because
we looked back and we go ah, oh,that wasn't as skillfully done
(23:36):
as I could have done it. Great.
Stephanie Allen (23:38):
Again, no, no, right, wrong, good, bad, shame,
blame thing. It's just like,hey, you know, can I do this,
but it's like, you know, anyathlete is gonna watch the game
on the replay, and they're gonnaslow it down, they're gonna look
at, oh, if I just moved my bodythis way, or I reached out that
way, or I didn't even see thatmy teammate over here was wide
(23:59):
open, you're gonna start to go,Oh, I know. I know. I would do
things differently. But if wekeep coming from our past, doing
the same thing that we've alwaysdone, that's, what does that
mean? What's the definition ofinsanity,
Maren Oslac (24:12):
That's Insanity,
Stephanie Allen (24:13):
right, doing the same thing again, and again,
again, hoping for a differentresult. That's insane. We have
to get out, outside of time andspace and presence our future
that wants to happen. And thenwork reverse engineering. Go
backwards. Yeah. And there'sinternal structures are so
important because you get a goodwindstorm, you get a good
(24:34):
earthquake, you get whatever andall of a sudden, you're you're
gone because if those internalcapacity, those internal
structures are not in place,there isn't any growth. There
isn't any resiliency, thereisn't any evolution because
you're you're shattered. And asnature when nature shatters, it
provides food for the next levelof growth. So there is no there
(24:55):
is no shame. So even if yourstructure falls down, oops,
okay. What did I learn? Cool.
Let's do this. Again. I wasfeeding the environment. This is
great, good food.
Maren Oslac (25:04):
It was great food.
And it's, I'm hoping that it wasalso good food for you all
because my lessons will helpyour skill, right. And it is
it's all about building skilland learning and building more
skill and learning and buildingmore skill. So there is so much
to chew on from today's podcast,we would love to hear from you
(25:27):
either in our Facebook page oron our LinkedIn page. What did
you get out of today's podcast?
Drop a line for us, and that'sat the soulful leaders. You can
also find us on YouTube. Andremember that our show notes are
available. So you can find thoseon any of your podcast platforms
(25:49):
or on our website,theSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com.
We'll see you all next week.
Thanks for listening.
Stephanie Allen (26:04):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (26:11):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website attheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (26:21):
Until next time,
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