August 22, 2023 • 30 mins
Our ‘more is never enough’ culture has taken its toll. Personally we are in debt, worn out, overworked and mentally and physically ill. As a culture, ‘quiet quitting’ is rampant, businesses are closing and people are more and more disconnected and polarized. This is the cost, the backlash, to the rampant ‘more more more’, ‘push push push’ that has consumed us for years.
What we are experiencing is a reaction, not a solution. The good news is WE are the solution. Maren and Stephanie talk about this challenge that each of us faces and how we, as leaders, must tune into our ‘why’, our meaning in life, to make a difference - for us and for those around us.
Shutting off your phone, not going to work or saying I'm only available from nine to five are all great things, and they are only boundaries for a life that doesn't have meaning. ~Stephanie
- 00:42 The F’s that create more problems than they solve: fixing, forcing and figuring
- 05:34 Doing something you love that nourishes you
- 08:45 Making space for the quest, the questions that empower
- 14:42 Responding instead of reacting to embezzlement
- 21:55 Our vision: everybody on the planet’s outward work is their passion
- 25:29 When a tree falls, it doesn’t ‘poof’ just disappear, it feeds the forest
Without the inner inquiry, when we quit, we also quit on ourselves ~ Maren
We hope you’ll join all of us at TSLP in choosing to make the space, do the inner work and transform the world in which we live.
LINKS
Ticket to Paradise (movie 22:40)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maren Oslac (00:04):
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through, and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you. That's where we
excel. We're your hosts,Stephanie Allen,
Maren Oslac (00:25):
and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast,
Maren Oslac (00:29):
sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Welcome back to the soulfulleader podcast. This is Maren
and I'm here with Stephanie. Andshe and I, we've been talking a
(00:50):
lot about the hustle culture,and the fact that more people
are becoming aware that it's nothealthy. I've been seeing more
articles about it. And, youknow, the damage that it's done
to us as individuals to us as aculture, to our teams to our
(01:12):
planet, like all the stuff, andI'm really glad that awareness
is being brought to it. And Ithink the thing that I'm
noticing is that the people aretrying to fix it. And we've
(01:33):
talked before about fixing,forcing, and what's the third F
Stephanie Allen (01:37):
figuring out
Maren Oslac (01:37):
figuring out, right. And I just don't think
that it's something when we lookat it from a perspective of
fixing it, we will create moreproblems, then the hustle
culture is actually created inand of itself.
Stephanie Allen (01:58):
Can you say more? For those who might not be
familiar with the hustle culturememe really is just to kind of
explain that, like, what is thehustle culture? And why are we
so you know, adamant that wehave to change it.
Maren Oslac (02:14):
So many years ago, there was this kind of a relaxed
way of being in families andwork took a certain amount of
time, and then you came home andyou were with your family, and
everybody had dinner together.
And there's a lot of people whowant to go back to that this
(02:34):
idyllic kind of way of of life,which which not idealic,
Stephanie Allen (02:40):
which is funny, because that's kind of the
pandemic gave us permission tohave dinners together again, in
a slow down and to stop. Forsome people really liked it. And
others it was really, reallywell, it was hard.
Maren Oslac (02:53):
It was hard, right.
And, you know, like all of theeras that we've gone through as,
as human beings have had theirboth their benefits and their
challenges. So from that workbecame more prioritized and
goals, outer outer goals of, youknow, keeping up with the
Joneses of well, so and so hasit why shouldn't I, so I'm going
(03:15):
to work a little bit harder. Andthis whole, the work ethic
changed to be the even thoughthe term work ethic that there
is such a thing, the work ethicis that you'll put in a certain
amount of time, and you reallysee it in certain professions,
and then it became in allprofessions. So it might have
(03:36):
started out in like, being alawyer, you knew you needed or
being a doctor, you knew youneeded to put in, you know, 80
hours a week, which is way morethan the, the average workweek
was 40 hours, and then it became50 hours and then became 60
hours. And that became like, andthat was that's the norm if you
want to get anywhere you domore, you could do it faster.
You you put in more effort youlike this, push, push, push,
(04:00):
push, push onto the next ontothe next on to the next, do it
faster, do it better do it, youknow, with less effort with
less, you know. And supposedly,this is true, I guess for AI to
supposedly it was going to allowus at some point to have more.
And whatso that we could do less
(04:27):
so that we could do less.
Stephanie Allen (04:29):
But it's not happening is it?
Maren Oslac (04:30):
it's not happening.
So what ends up, what I see mostpeople doing is they get more in
debt, because we're expected tohave more outer proof that we're
successful. So we buy a biggerhouse and a bigger car and we
buy more stuff and we go on morevacations, which means we're now
in more in debt. So we have todo more work and we have to
figure out how to like it's anever ending consumption binge.
(04:53):
That's the only thing go
Stephanie Allen (04:58):
And it's exhausting, and we're exhausted
and we're lonely, and we'redisconnected from nature and
ourselves and each other. Like,it's just, yeah, it's not so. So
consequently, people arequitting, pulling back, pulling
back
Maren Oslac (05:15):
saying enough, which I'm, I'm so glad, right
that, that never endingconsumption binge. That's how I
think of the hustle culture islike, it's never ending and it
does, there needs to be, thebrakes do need to be put on. And
it's like, stop.
Stephanie Allen (05:34):
But what sometimes happens like anything
is like the pendulum swings fromone side over to the other side,
which also isn't helpful,either. So you know, we're
finding it hard to get people toshow up for work where
businesses are closing, becausethey don't have the staff or the
team, we can't get productsbecause it's, you know, all of a
(05:56):
sudden, you know, it's gone tothe other extreme, too. So the
people that are working are nowhaving to double their
productivity and their time andtheir energy into what they're
doing to make up for the lack.
So you know, what, so what wouldbe the balance? What would be
the, what would be theintegration of that, like,
there's some great insights ofthe hustle culture, like going
(06:19):
what is of value? What is apriority? And how do we
restructure in a new way thattranscends and includes where we
are? And what I mean by that,it's like, someone said to me
the other day, oh Stephanie,you're never going to retire.
And I'm like, Well, yeah, what,why would I retire from
something that I love, thatsomething that that nourishes
(06:39):
me? and it's not about themoney, but it nourishes me,
body, mind and soul. Like I,there's be honest with you, I
mean, I'm scared to not workbecause then I'll become idle.
And there's enough idleness inthe world, in the way of just
kind of sitting, I don't want tobinge on Netflix, I don't want
(07:01):
to, like, I want to grow, I wantto evolve my mind and my body
and my spirit. And, and in orderfor me to do that, I want to be
challenged, I don't want to bechallenged through pain and
suffering. I want to bechallenged by something that I
love, and I find beautiful,which is what I love about my, I
don't call it a job. It's avocation. It's a calling. I love
it. Why retire from it, right?
(07:28):
There's a lot of people thatdon't have that. There's a lot
of people that have have a jobor a work like a means to the
ends. And I think that's wherethe pain and the suffering
happens if like, I don't want tokeep shoveling that shit
anymore, I want to findsomething that sustains me and,
and doesn't just give me thatsurface, we call it like
Flatland, that, that surface. Wewant to go deeper, we want to go
(07:51):
more sustenance, more, you know,juiciness of life, like, what is
that? And it's not out there.
Because we've been trying to dothat we've been trying to do
more and have more and it's not
Maren Oslac (08:02):
And I think that that is what you're talking
working.
about is the key. So there aretwo things. The first is instead
of a reaction, which is what I'mseeing to the hustle culture,
there's a reaction. And it'simportant, it's good. It's not
it's like, once there is thereaction, though, starting the
(08:25):
quest, instead of just pullingthe plug, quiet quitting or not
showing up or showing up and notdoing your work or like, Okay,
I'm done, done.
Stephanie Allen (08:37):
Just putting in the time to get to your
retirement. Right. So which isquite quitting, by the way.
Maren Oslac (08:45):
Right. Quiet quitting is you're actually
showing up to work, but you'renot showing up. Because you
don't want to be there. Soasking the questions, what are
the questions? What's the quest?
Why? Why are you there? Whatwhat happens when you're there
that makes you not want to bethere? Where else might you want
(09:06):
to be? Where are your passions?
There are so many questions thatwe could ask, instead of just
shutting down, and that's what Isee. Quiet quitting or like you
said, binging on Netflix, or,that's a shutdown of our system.
And it is a reaction. Yeah, it'snot an action. And oftentimes,
(09:28):
we think we're, we're doing anaction, say, like, I've decided
that I'm going to show my bossand I'm going to show up to work
but I'm not going to doanything. And I think I'm taking
an action, a positive action formyself. That's actually a
reaction and I'm not taking I'mnot taking time for myself. I'm
(09:50):
not giving myself the what I'mreally craving, which is the
second piece I said there weretwo the second piece, and you
were talking about it is, therehas to be meaning. Yeah. So you
and I both are doing somethingthat we love. And we're blessed
(10:11):
to have found that. And we'vedone also done a lot of work in
our lifetime to get to thatplace where it's like, I love,
Stephanie Allen (10:20):
So, so, I'm just going to put your pause
there when we say we've done alot of work in our lives to get
there. We're not talking aboutthe outer work. And what I mean,
it's like, yes, I've had a fewjobs from hell, which really
helps to say, I don't want to dothat anymore. Just like we could
have relationships, or how canwe go, I don't want to do that
anymore, or whatever it is,right. But that also requires to
(10:43):
go inside yourself, and do innerwork. And we've talked about
this quite a few times. It'slike, well, what is inner work?
What does that even mean? Maren,like when we say, to do, we both
have done a lot of work aroundfinding meaning and purpose in
our in our lives.
Maren Oslac (11:00):
And that is going back to the questions. So those
are starting to get into theOkay, so how do I find the
meaning? What do you mean, then,when you say, ask questions,
What do you mean? Becausereally, all I want to do is curl
up on the couch and watchNetflix or go to the freezer,
(11:20):
and grab my thing of ice creamand like disappear into a book
for the next four hours.
Stephanie Allen (11:25):
So that even the question that you're saying,
like, you know, when we saydoing that, that that work, is
instead of maybe asking how, weask why. You know, why are you
in this relationship? Why areyou, you know, doing this the
way you're doing it? Why are youworking in this job, or in this
(11:46):
way? And if you get clear aboutthe why, and I hope the why is
more than just, you know, to putfood on the table and money in
your savings for yourretirement, I hope that there's
a deeper meaning. Because that'swhat we're talking about. If
the, if it's just a surface ofthe exterior part of like, food,
water, shelter, and retirementfund, it's hard to sustain.
Maren Oslac (12:12):
And that's why there's an issue with the hustle
culture, there's an issue withwhere we are as a as a society.
And there's an issue with wherewe each are, each of us is
individually. And the the quoteunquote, fix for the hustle
culture is not the reaction isnot just shut off your phone,
(12:34):
that may be a temporary fix whenyou shut off your phone or don't
go to work or say I'm onlyavailable from nine to five,
those are great things.
Stephanie Allen (12:44):
Those are boundaries for a life
Maren Oslac (12:46):
they're not stainable
Stephanie Allen (12:47):
that doesn't have meaning,
Maren Oslac (12:49):
right. They're not sustainable, and they won't
actually change the hustleculture. Right. There's a
backlash to that. So what willchange it and you were talking
about, like, what are, askingthe why questions. And maybe the
why question is like, yes,there's that surface answer that
immediate, Well, because I haveto, I've got debt, I've got
(13:12):
school debt. I've got a familyto feed. I've got this. I've got
that. Great. I love that. Andthen is there another way?
because there's always anotherway. And we get so ingrained in
what we think is the only way Ihave to do this. And so
Stephanie Allen (13:32):
it becomes very rigid,
Maren Oslac (13:34):
it becomes very rigid,
Stephanie Allen (13:35):
and doesn't really open up possibilities or
curiosity or wonder, right,which gives you lifeforce by the
way, being curious and stayingin that place of being wonder is
that childlike, not childish,but childlike wonder, actually
opens up possibilities.
Maren Oslac (13:52):
It does and this is where turning off your phone and
saying, I'm only available fromnine to five, or I'm not coming
in or whatever it is that that'syour reaction, taking that space
that you've just created. Andasking some questions with it.
Instead of going and hidingunder a blanket. I know I trust
(14:15):
me, I've done it, I want to bethere. And if you can just take
a moment of that and say, Youknow what, I'm going to invest
in my future with this hour thatI've created. I've made some
space. I've turned off my phone.
I've said I'm not coming inwhatever it is, and I'm gonna
take this hour and invest in myfuture and ask some some hard
(14:37):
questions. They're hard.
Stephanie Allen (14:42):
Yet to look inside is not easy, but it's
totally worth it. I had thisgreat story that I had heard the
other day about a man who hadhired a good friend of his and
you know, she was theirbookkeeper kind of thing in the
business. And she embezzled like$60,000 from them And you know,
his friend said, Well, you'regonna like, fire her, right? And
(15:04):
you're gonna press charges. He'slike, No. And I know in our
culture, we're like, well, thenthat's stupid, like he's just
setting himself up for. But hedid something really profound
instead of reacting. He becameresponsive. And he first took it
to his own heart and said, Okay,this is interesting. What is the
gift that I'm being called tolive here? There's a gift in
(15:30):
this and it and if I couldtranscend reactionary, like, you
know that part of it in
Maren Oslac (15:37):
just a minute. It's also that is not something being
done to him on the outer world,from outer world. That's right.
The responsiveness comes fromtaking responsibility that gives
us the ability to respond
Stephanie Allen (15:53):
exactly. So he looked inside and said, what was
So not blaming herin me, that allowed this to
happen. And not from a place ofshame, or beating himself up, he
was, stayed curious. And then henot blaming her
Maren Oslac (16:02):
asking, staying curious
was like, Huh, I wonder what inme allowed this to happen? What
Stephanie Allen (16:04):
staying curious and staying in his heart with
where I went off track, or whenI missed the red flags, or I
didn't check my regularstatements or something like
there's just something that'scalling me to be a better
that, he said, Are you okay?
And, you know, whatever, itleader. And it's not from a
reactionary place, but from aresponsive place. And then he
then he even took it to anotherlevel. He said, I wonder what's
(16:25):
going on with her. That made herhappened, or what have it, you
know, she, she came, you know,clean and said that, yeah, that
she had been doing this anddo that. So all of a sudden you
put compassion in. And so hewent to her and said, Hey, look,
I discovered that this was goingwhatever happened, and they set
up a payment plan so that sheon, and are you okay?
(17:00):
would pay him back. And theyboth learned something about
truth, and, you know, beingtransparent and compassionate,
and also looking within to say
Maren Oslac (17:13):
and the ability responsibility, the
Stephanie Allen (17:16):
what can we do differently so that this doesn't
happen again? What is the lessonhere? But yeah, we tend to get
into that, you know, I'm right,you're wrong. You're good. I'm
bad, you know, ethical,unethical, we get into those
binary polar aspects, which thenwe just react, it's like, you're
done. I'm out of here. You know,or we quit. Like, why, why
(17:39):
bother? And this is detrimentalto our growth. It is, and not
just to your own personalgrowth, but the growth of all
those around you.
Maren Oslac (17:50):
And I think one of the things we don't realize is
that without the inner inquiry,when we quit, we also quit on
ourselves. And I'm not sayingthat that's a blanket like
everybody, when you quit, youquit on yourself, I say, without
the inner inquiry, withoutknowing why you're quitting.
Stephanie Allen (18:11):
that thing that just came up to me when you said
Becausethat Maren, was I think of
someone who's being abused in arelationship. And finally, they
they have enough self esteem,self worth, self love to say,
I'm out of here. And that's, youknow, absolutely. But if we
don't take that inner inquiryinside, not to say that, hey,
you attracted it, I'm not sayingthat. But to be able to say,
(18:33):
what was it in me that allowedthat to happen? What did I learn
from that? And what do I need?
How do I need to become betterbecause we think that our
personality or we think that oursex or our race or our culture
is who we are, and we're notthat. We are literally what is
(18:55):
Jean Houston say about that? Weare
Maren Oslac (19:00):
biodegradable body suits.
Stephanie Allen (19:03):
Yeah, organic material like you know that we
are souls basically taking avery brief moment in time to
have a have bio, a biodegradable organic bodysuit for
a moment. But we have anopportunity to grow and evolve
and not create huge tidal wavesto hurt ourselves or each other.
(19:25):
We can actually lift up
Maren Oslac (19:27):
and I do want to just add that oftentimes we need
to get out of the situation andyou brought up Yeah, physical
abuse, and it's very easy to seein that like, somebody has to
get out of that situation first,before they can recover enough
to do the inner inquiry to askthose questions. Right. So there
(19:51):
is this, there is a selfpreservation there is a if you
need to get out of situation,whether it's a work situation or
a hustle situation or whatever,take the time get out of it.
And,
Stephanie Allen (20:06):
and then take the time and go inwards
Maren Oslac (20:07):
and take the time and go inward, right.
Stephanie Allen (20:10):
Not from a place of shame or blame or self
pity. But a place of
Maren Oslac (20:14):
I want to grow forward. Yeah. You know,
Stephanie Allen (20:18):
and then there's always a higher story
for what happens, like, youknow, if something doesn't, what
does Rumi say, you know, begrateful for that which does not
come, you know, sometimes it's,it's saving you from something
that you know, and be open towhat is meant to happen. And I,
nothing makes me crazier thansomeone said, Well, if it's
meant to be, it's meant to be,it's like, no, you need to do
(20:41):
the inner work with that.
Because I, you know, if it'smeant to be, it's meant to be
sometimes, sometimes we do needto do that inner work so that we
can be in the right time and theright space, and we have the
right, we have the bestqualities within ourselves to
really receive it. But we needhelp. We're not meant to do this
on our own and isolation all byourselves, you know, we're meant
(21:03):
to actually get triggered byeach other, or by the world
outside of ourselves. So thatwe'll go in and find a higher, a
higher possibility, it's reallyeasy to just say that's it, you
know, block somebody onFacebook, or delete them off
your friends list or, you know,quit the job or get the divorce
or move move cities, it's itactually is pretty easy to do
(21:27):
that. It really is. But you justtake the same stuff with you,
right, you're just going to nowattract it in another different
way. You know, and often itisn't going to be as easy the
next time, it's sometimes it'sharder, unless we're doing that
internal work, to be able tobring that which is within, to
come up and to grow and changeand be a different attractor.
Maren Oslac (21:55):
And I think the vision that both you and I have
for everybody on the planet isfor our outward work to be our
passion. So that we wake up inthe morning, and we're excited.
And like you said, why would youretire from doing something that
(22:17):
you're passionate about? Yeah,
Stephanie Allen (22:19):
I mean, you say to any parent, what so when do
you get to retire when the whenthe kids go? Right? It was like
you never retire from somethingthat you love. Right?
Maren Oslac (22:31):
like retiring from your right love relationship,
No! right? Like I am in, I saw amovie recently. It was, it was
on Netflix. So it's a popularmovie, it was something like
trip to paradise or somethingit's got I can't think of the
name of the people in it anyway.
The young man in it says,There's a young woman that goes
(22:54):
to goes off to Bali. And shefalls in love with this guy in
Bali. And the guy that she fallsin love with, she was talking to
him, and he's a seaweed farmer.
And she says, that's your work?
And he looks at her and he says,No, this is my partnership with
the goddess of the sea and withspirit. And I thought, What if
(23:15):
all of us thought of our workour outward job that we do as a
partnership with whatever, youknow, like, for me, maybe the
partner or my partner would bethe spirit of you know, speakers
or whatever, you know, like whatif it was all of us thought of
(23:36):
it like that, instead of it'ssomething I have to do to pay
the bills?
Stephanie Allen (23:42):
Yeah. And sometimes just having that shift
that internal shift, changes howyou show up and changes what
happens in your current job oryour current relationship. Or
your current situation. Itliterally changes, it's a game
changer. Yeah, it's like you canlook at your partner, whatever
that is, you know, in your lifeas being a pain in the ass who's
(24:03):
trying to demand things fromyou. Or you can look at it and
say I get to do this, how can Ifall in love with this with
this, whatever this is right?
This job this person this, youknow, paying the bill this
whatever, like, if we cancultivate more love and meaning
and gratitude, it will changeit. But that is a practice.
Maren Oslac (24:25):
One of the questions that you could start
asking is, if I were able to doanything and partner with the
goddess of or the God of whatwould I do? What would I do?
What could that look like andstart playing and dreaming with
that. Because from where you areright now, you can't see the
(24:52):
possibility and when you plantthat seed with spirit with the
universe, it very well may comeand find you, because it starts,
it starts a thread ofpossibility. And until you start
that thread of possibility, it'sjust not out there yet.
Stephanie Allen (25:13):
That's right.
So letting go. So sometimes youdo need to let go, you have a
job or a relationship or, youknow, something that that has
been a struggle for you,
Maren Oslac (25:23):
or at least make space within that, right. Like,
I'm not doing X or I'm not doingy,
Stephanie Allen (25:30):
you were sharing a great anicdote of
like, when a tree falls, like,you know, it's it's let go. Its
roots, it's time for it to leaveits anchor.
Maren Oslac (25:39):
So what Stephanie's referring to is, before we got
on today, I said, when a treedies, and it falls or you know,
it doesn't just disappear, isnot poof, it's gone. It decays
in the forest, and it takes awhile. And in that decaying
process, it provides food, andshelter, and homes, and like all
(26:04):
kinds of stuff that's important.
Stephanie Allen (26:06):
So even in the decaying, it has meaning and
purpose.
Maren Oslac (26:09):
It does.
Stephanie Allen (26:10):
And so I think that's something to remember,
like when people are saying,well, I left this job or I left
that relationship or I movedtowns, we just turn it off,
right? It's like no, there's aprocess, right, that tree had a
process and it was still inservice. And if we can look
within to say, to remember that,as we're looking within and
asking yourself questions, orfinding that place of looking at
(26:34):
why, why did I attract this orfor what purpose that I need to
go through that. And when we canstart to cultivate the the
gifts, we're actually offeringit back as service to, to all
those around us. And it takestime.
Maren Oslac (26:49):
It does take time.
And I
Stephanie Allen (26:51):
it doesn't poof just disappear.
Maren Oslac (26:52):
It doesn't poof, and so when we leave a job, like
you said, when we leave a job orwhen we leave a relationship,
and we've we've made thatdeclaration, honoring that
decaying process of like, itstill needs something. And it's
it's still a part of you, right?
It's feeding other things, andthere's so much that it does
serve us and oftentimes, we justare like, Nope, I'm not thinking
(27:16):
about that. I don't want to talkabout it. I don't want to
exactly nothing to do with it.
Stephanie Allen (27:21):
how many times I'm thinking of people who have
No, andlost loved ones who say what
you're still grieving. And itmight be one year, it might be
10 years. And it's like, youknow, we're all different trees.
You know, sometimes we're just alittle tree, sometimes we are
hardwood, and a tall tree. Andit takes a long time. Yeah. But
as it is, if you're having ahard time going through a
process, it's okay, that you areactually decomposing and you are
(27:44):
like to be able to look withinbecause there's going to be a
lots and lots of treasure, andlots and lots of opportunities
for service and gifts, both toyourself and to those around you
as you go through the process.
Maren Oslac (27:56):
I love that, give ourselves permission.
Stephanie Allen (28:01):
Yeah, be kind.
Maren Oslac (28:03):
Yeah. And this is how we actually evolve, the
hustle culture is this is doing,showing up to the inner work,
asking the questions and beingwilling to sit with, and be
with, instead of instantlyturning it off, like, turn it
off, make your space and do someof the inner work. It is well
(28:31):
well worth the investmentbecause like Stephanie said,
otherwise, the next job you getwill be a basically a version of
the same thing. You're gonna gothrough the same exact stuff.
Yeah. Or maybe a little harder.
Stephanie Allen (28:47):
Hopefully not.
Maren Oslac (28:48):
Hopefully not, because hopefully you've taken
the time and you've asked somegreat questions, or at least A
question, start there. Well,thanks for joining us today, as
as I always tell you are,everything will be linked in the
show notes. So the movie that Imentioned earlier, and anything
(29:08):
else that we've talked about,I'll have a link in the show
notes so you can find thatthere. You can also find us on
Facebook, on LinkedIn and onYouTube. And don't forget that
we do have a free download onour website. So if you're
interested in finding out whenour podcasts come out and
getting first access to ourpodcasts, and getting our little
(29:28):
freebie, go head to our website,the soulful leader podcast.com
and sign up for our email list.
And we will see you all nextweek on the soulful leader
podcast.
Stephanie Allen (29:49):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (29:55):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (30:06):
Until next time
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through, and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you. That's where we
excel. We're your hosts,Stephanie Allen,
Maren Oslac (00:25):
and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast,
Maren Oslac (00:29):
sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Welcome back to the soulfulleader podcast. This is Maren
and I'm here with Stephanie. Andshe and I, we've been talking a
(00:50):
lot about the hustle culture,and the fact that more people
are becoming aware that it's nothealthy. I've been seeing more
articles about it. And, youknow, the damage that it's done
to us as individuals to us as aculture, to our teams to our
(01:12):
planet, like all the stuff, andI'm really glad that awareness
is being brought to it. And Ithink the thing that I'm
noticing is that the people aretrying to fix it. And we've
(01:33):
talked before about fixing,forcing, and what's the third F
Stephanie Allen (01:37):
figuring out
Maren Oslac (01:37):
figuring out, right. And I just don't think
that it's something when we lookat it from a perspective of
fixing it, we will create moreproblems, then the hustle
culture is actually created inand of itself.
Stephanie Allen (01:58):
Can you say more? For those who might not be
familiar with the hustle culturememe really is just to kind of
explain that, like, what is thehustle culture? And why are we
so you know, adamant that wehave to change it.
Maren Oslac (02:14):
So many years ago, there was this kind of a relaxed
way of being in families andwork took a certain amount of
time, and then you came home andyou were with your family, and
everybody had dinner together.
And there's a lot of people whowant to go back to that this
(02:34):
idyllic kind of way of of life,which which not idealic,
Stephanie Allen (02:40):
which is funny, because that's kind of the
pandemic gave us permission tohave dinners together again, in
a slow down and to stop. Forsome people really liked it. And
others it was really, reallywell, it was hard.
Maren Oslac (02:53):
It was hard, right.
And, you know, like all of theeras that we've gone through as,
as human beings have had theirboth their benefits and their
challenges. So from that workbecame more prioritized and
goals, outer outer goals of, youknow, keeping up with the
Joneses of well, so and so hasit why shouldn't I, so I'm going
(03:15):
to work a little bit harder. Andthis whole, the work ethic
changed to be the even thoughthe term work ethic that there
is such a thing, the work ethicis that you'll put in a certain
amount of time, and you reallysee it in certain professions,
and then it became in allprofessions. So it might have
(03:36):
started out in like, being alawyer, you knew you needed or
being a doctor, you knew youneeded to put in, you know, 80
hours a week, which is way morethan the, the average workweek
was 40 hours, and then it became50 hours and then became 60
hours. And that became like, andthat was that's the norm if you
want to get anywhere you domore, you could do it faster.
You you put in more effort youlike this, push, push, push,
(04:00):
push, push onto the next ontothe next on to the next, do it
faster, do it better do it, youknow, with less effort with
less, you know. And supposedly,this is true, I guess for AI to
supposedly it was going to allowus at some point to have more.
And whatso that we could do less
(04:27):
so that we could do less.
Stephanie Allen (04:29):
But it's not happening is it?
Maren Oslac (04:30):
it's not happening.
So what ends up, what I see mostpeople doing is they get more in
debt, because we're expected tohave more outer proof that we're
successful. So we buy a biggerhouse and a bigger car and we
buy more stuff and we go on morevacations, which means we're now
in more in debt. So we have todo more work and we have to
figure out how to like it's anever ending consumption binge.
(04:53):
That's the only thing go
Stephanie Allen (04:58):
And it's exhausting, and we're exhausted
and we're lonely, and we'redisconnected from nature and
ourselves and each other. Like,it's just, yeah, it's not so. So
consequently, people arequitting, pulling back, pulling
back
Maren Oslac (05:15):
saying enough, which I'm, I'm so glad, right
that, that never endingconsumption binge. That's how I
think of the hustle culture islike, it's never ending and it
does, there needs to be, thebrakes do need to be put on. And
it's like, stop.
Stephanie Allen (05:34):
But what sometimes happens like anything
is like the pendulum swings fromone side over to the other side,
which also isn't helpful,either. So you know, we're
finding it hard to get people toshow up for work where
businesses are closing, becausethey don't have the staff or the
team, we can't get productsbecause it's, you know, all of a
(05:56):
sudden, you know, it's gone tothe other extreme, too. So the
people that are working are nowhaving to double their
productivity and their time andtheir energy into what they're
doing to make up for the lack.
So you know, what, so what wouldbe the balance? What would be
the, what would be theintegration of that, like,
there's some great insights ofthe hustle culture, like going
(06:19):
what is of value? What is apriority? And how do we
restructure in a new way thattranscends and includes where we
are? And what I mean by that,it's like, someone said to me
the other day, oh Stephanie,you're never going to retire.
And I'm like, Well, yeah, what,why would I retire from
something that I love, thatsomething that that nourishes
(06:39):
me? and it's not about themoney, but it nourishes me,
body, mind and soul. Like I,there's be honest with you, I
mean, I'm scared to not workbecause then I'll become idle.
And there's enough idleness inthe world, in the way of just
kind of sitting, I don't want tobinge on Netflix, I don't want
(07:01):
to, like, I want to grow, I wantto evolve my mind and my body
and my spirit. And, and in orderfor me to do that, I want to be
challenged, I don't want to bechallenged through pain and
suffering. I want to bechallenged by something that I
love, and I find beautiful,which is what I love about my, I
don't call it a job. It's avocation. It's a calling. I love
it. Why retire from it, right?
(07:28):
There's a lot of people thatdon't have that. There's a lot
of people that have have a jobor a work like a means to the
ends. And I think that's wherethe pain and the suffering
happens if like, I don't want tokeep shoveling that shit
anymore, I want to findsomething that sustains me and,
and doesn't just give me thatsurface, we call it like
Flatland, that, that surface. Wewant to go deeper, we want to go
(07:51):
more sustenance, more, you know,juiciness of life, like, what is
that? And it's not out there.
Because we've been trying to dothat we've been trying to do
more and have more and it's not
Maren Oslac (08:02):
And I think that that is what you're talking
working.
about is the key. So there aretwo things. The first is instead
of a reaction, which is what I'mseeing to the hustle culture,
there's a reaction. And it'simportant, it's good. It's not
it's like, once there is thereaction, though, starting the
(08:25):
quest, instead of just pullingthe plug, quiet quitting or not
showing up or showing up and notdoing your work or like, Okay,
I'm done, done.
Stephanie Allen (08:37):
Just putting in the time to get to your
retirement. Right. So which isquite quitting, by the way.
Maren Oslac (08:45):
Right. Quiet quitting is you're actually
showing up to work, but you'renot showing up. Because you
don't want to be there. Soasking the questions, what are
the questions? What's the quest?
Why? Why are you there? Whatwhat happens when you're there
that makes you not want to bethere? Where else might you want
(09:06):
to be? Where are your passions?
There are so many questions thatwe could ask, instead of just
shutting down, and that's what Isee. Quiet quitting or like you
said, binging on Netflix, or,that's a shutdown of our system.
And it is a reaction. Yeah, it'snot an action. And oftentimes,
(09:28):
we think we're, we're doing anaction, say, like, I've decided
that I'm going to show my bossand I'm going to show up to work
but I'm not going to doanything. And I think I'm taking
an action, a positive action formyself. That's actually a
reaction and I'm not taking I'mnot taking time for myself. I'm
(09:50):
not giving myself the what I'mreally craving, which is the
second piece I said there weretwo the second piece, and you
were talking about it is, therehas to be meaning. Yeah. So you
and I both are doing somethingthat we love. And we're blessed
(10:11):
to have found that. And we'vedone also done a lot of work in
our lifetime to get to thatplace where it's like, I love,
Stephanie Allen (10:20):
So, so, I'm just going to put your pause
there when we say we've done alot of work in our lives to get
there. We're not talking aboutthe outer work. And what I mean,
it's like, yes, I've had a fewjobs from hell, which really
helps to say, I don't want to dothat anymore. Just like we could
have relationships, or how canwe go, I don't want to do that
anymore, or whatever it is,right. But that also requires to
(10:43):
go inside yourself, and do innerwork. And we've talked about
this quite a few times. It'slike, well, what is inner work?
What does that even mean? Maren,like when we say, to do, we both
have done a lot of work aroundfinding meaning and purpose in
our in our lives.
Maren Oslac (11:00):
And that is going back to the questions. So those
are starting to get into theOkay, so how do I find the
meaning? What do you mean, then,when you say, ask questions,
What do you mean? Becausereally, all I want to do is curl
up on the couch and watchNetflix or go to the freezer,
(11:20):
and grab my thing of ice creamand like disappear into a book
for the next four hours.
Stephanie Allen (11:25):
So that even the question that you're saying,
like, you know, when we saydoing that, that that work, is
instead of maybe asking how, weask why. You know, why are you
in this relationship? Why areyou, you know, doing this the
way you're doing it? Why are youworking in this job, or in this
(11:46):
way? And if you get clear aboutthe why, and I hope the why is
more than just, you know, to putfood on the table and money in
your savings for yourretirement, I hope that there's
a deeper meaning. Because that'swhat we're talking about. If
the, if it's just a surface ofthe exterior part of like, food,
water, shelter, and retirementfund, it's hard to sustain.
Maren Oslac (12:12):
And that's why there's an issue with the hustle
culture, there's an issue withwhere we are as a as a society.
And there's an issue with wherewe each are, each of us is
individually. And the the quoteunquote, fix for the hustle
culture is not the reaction isnot just shut off your phone,
(12:34):
that may be a temporary fix whenyou shut off your phone or don't
go to work or say I'm onlyavailable from nine to five,
those are great things.
Stephanie Allen (12:44):
Those are boundaries for a life
Maren Oslac (12:46):
they're not stainable
Stephanie Allen (12:47):
that doesn't have meaning,
Maren Oslac (12:49):
right. They're not sustainable, and they won't
actually change the hustleculture. Right. There's a
backlash to that. So what willchange it and you were talking
about, like, what are, askingthe why questions. And maybe the
why question is like, yes,there's that surface answer that
immediate, Well, because I haveto, I've got debt, I've got
(13:12):
school debt. I've got a familyto feed. I've got this. I've got
that. Great. I love that. Andthen is there another way?
because there's always anotherway. And we get so ingrained in
what we think is the only way Ihave to do this. And so
Stephanie Allen (13:32):
it becomes very rigid,
Maren Oslac (13:34):
it becomes very rigid,
Stephanie Allen (13:35):
and doesn't really open up possibilities or
curiosity or wonder, right,which gives you lifeforce by the
way, being curious and stayingin that place of being wonder is
that childlike, not childish,but childlike wonder, actually
opens up possibilities.
Maren Oslac (13:52):
It does and this is where turning off your phone and
saying, I'm only available fromnine to five, or I'm not coming
in or whatever it is that that'syour reaction, taking that space
that you've just created. Andasking some questions with it.
Instead of going and hidingunder a blanket. I know I trust
(14:15):
me, I've done it, I want to bethere. And if you can just take
a moment of that and say, Youknow what, I'm going to invest
in my future with this hour thatI've created. I've made some
space. I've turned off my phone.
I've said I'm not coming inwhatever it is, and I'm gonna
take this hour and invest in myfuture and ask some some hard
(14:37):
questions. They're hard.
Stephanie Allen (14:42):
Yet to look inside is not easy, but it's
totally worth it. I had thisgreat story that I had heard the
other day about a man who hadhired a good friend of his and
you know, she was theirbookkeeper kind of thing in the
business. And she embezzled like$60,000 from them And you know,
his friend said, Well, you'regonna like, fire her, right? And
(15:04):
you're gonna press charges. He'slike, No. And I know in our
culture, we're like, well, thenthat's stupid, like he's just
setting himself up for. But hedid something really profound
instead of reacting. He becameresponsive. And he first took it
to his own heart and said, Okay,this is interesting. What is the
gift that I'm being called tolive here? There's a gift in
(15:30):
this and it and if I couldtranscend reactionary, like, you
know that part of it in
Maren Oslac (15:37):
just a minute. It's also that is not something being
done to him on the outer world,from outer world. That's right.
The responsiveness comes fromtaking responsibility that gives
us the ability to respond
Stephanie Allen (15:53):
exactly. So he looked inside and said, what was
So not blaming herin me, that allowed this to
happen. And not from a place ofshame, or beating himself up, he
was, stayed curious. And then henot blaming her
Maren Oslac (16:02):
asking, staying curious
was like, Huh, I wonder what inme allowed this to happen? What
Stephanie Allen (16:04):
staying curious and staying in his heart with
where I went off track, or whenI missed the red flags, or I
didn't check my regularstatements or something like
there's just something that'scalling me to be a better
that, he said, Are you okay?
And, you know, whatever, itleader. And it's not from a
reactionary place, but from aresponsive place. And then he
then he even took it to anotherlevel. He said, I wonder what's
(16:25):
going on with her. That made herhappened, or what have it, you
know, she, she came, you know,clean and said that, yeah, that
she had been doing this anddo that. So all of a sudden you
put compassion in. And so hewent to her and said, Hey, look,
I discovered that this was goingwhatever happened, and they set
up a payment plan so that sheon, and are you okay?
(17:00):
would pay him back. And theyboth learned something about
truth, and, you know, beingtransparent and compassionate,
and also looking within to say
Maren Oslac (17:13):
and the ability responsibility, the
Stephanie Allen (17:16):
what can we do differently so that this doesn't
happen again? What is the lessonhere? But yeah, we tend to get
into that, you know, I'm right,you're wrong. You're good. I'm
bad, you know, ethical,unethical, we get into those
binary polar aspects, which thenwe just react, it's like, you're
done. I'm out of here. You know,or we quit. Like, why, why
(17:39):
bother? And this is detrimentalto our growth. It is, and not
just to your own personalgrowth, but the growth of all
those around you.
Maren Oslac (17:50):
And I think one of the things we don't realize is
that without the inner inquiry,when we quit, we also quit on
ourselves. And I'm not sayingthat that's a blanket like
everybody, when you quit, youquit on yourself, I say, without
the inner inquiry, withoutknowing why you're quitting.
Stephanie Allen (18:11):
that thing that just came up to me when you said
Becausethat Maren, was I think of
someone who's being abused in arelationship. And finally, they
they have enough self esteem,self worth, self love to say,
I'm out of here. And that's, youknow, absolutely. But if we
don't take that inner inquiryinside, not to say that, hey,
you attracted it, I'm not sayingthat. But to be able to say,
(18:33):
what was it in me that allowedthat to happen? What did I learn
from that? And what do I need?
How do I need to become betterbecause we think that our
personality or we think that oursex or our race or our culture
is who we are, and we're notthat. We are literally what is
(18:55):
Jean Houston say about that? Weare
Maren Oslac (19:00):
biodegradable body suits.
Stephanie Allen (19:03):
Yeah, organic material like you know that we
are souls basically taking avery brief moment in time to
have a have bio, a biodegradable organic bodysuit for
a moment. But we have anopportunity to grow and evolve
and not create huge tidal wavesto hurt ourselves or each other.
(19:25):
We can actually lift up
Maren Oslac (19:27):
and I do want to just add that oftentimes we need
to get out of the situation andyou brought up Yeah, physical
abuse, and it's very easy to seein that like, somebody has to
get out of that situation first,before they can recover enough
to do the inner inquiry to askthose questions. Right. So there
(19:51):
is this, there is a selfpreservation there is a if you
need to get out of situation,whether it's a work situation or
a hustle situation or whatever,take the time get out of it.
And,
Stephanie Allen (20:06):
and then take the time and go inwards
Maren Oslac (20:07):
and take the time and go inward, right.
Stephanie Allen (20:10):
Not from a place of shame or blame or self
pity. But a place of
Maren Oslac (20:14):
I want to grow forward. Yeah. You know,
Stephanie Allen (20:18):
and then there's always a higher story
for what happens, like, youknow, if something doesn't, what
does Rumi say, you know, begrateful for that which does not
come, you know, sometimes it's,it's saving you from something
that you know, and be open towhat is meant to happen. And I,
nothing makes me crazier thansomeone said, Well, if it's
meant to be, it's meant to be,it's like, no, you need to do
(20:41):
the inner work with that.
Because I, you know, if it'smeant to be, it's meant to be
sometimes, sometimes we do needto do that inner work so that we
can be in the right time and theright space, and we have the
right, we have the bestqualities within ourselves to
really receive it. But we needhelp. We're not meant to do this
on our own and isolation all byourselves, you know, we're meant
(21:03):
to actually get triggered byeach other, or by the world
outside of ourselves. So thatwe'll go in and find a higher, a
higher possibility, it's reallyeasy to just say that's it, you
know, block somebody onFacebook, or delete them off
your friends list or, you know,quit the job or get the divorce
or move move cities, it's itactually is pretty easy to do
(21:27):
that. It really is. But you justtake the same stuff with you,
right, you're just going to nowattract it in another different
way. You know, and often itisn't going to be as easy the
next time, it's sometimes it'sharder, unless we're doing that
internal work, to be able tobring that which is within, to
come up and to grow and changeand be a different attractor.
Maren Oslac (21:55):
And I think the vision that both you and I have
for everybody on the planet isfor our outward work to be our
passion. So that we wake up inthe morning, and we're excited.
And like you said, why would youretire from doing something that
(22:17):
you're passionate about? Yeah,
Stephanie Allen (22:19):
I mean, you say to any parent, what so when do
you get to retire when the whenthe kids go? Right? It was like
you never retire from somethingthat you love. Right?
Maren Oslac (22:31):
like retiring from your right love relationship,
No! right? Like I am in, I saw amovie recently. It was, it was
on Netflix. So it's a popularmovie, it was something like
trip to paradise or somethingit's got I can't think of the
name of the people in it anyway.
The young man in it says,There's a young woman that goes
(22:54):
to goes off to Bali. And shefalls in love with this guy in
Bali. And the guy that she fallsin love with, she was talking to
him, and he's a seaweed farmer.
And she says, that's your work?
And he looks at her and he says,No, this is my partnership with
the goddess of the sea and withspirit. And I thought, What if
(23:15):
all of us thought of our workour outward job that we do as a
partnership with whatever, youknow, like, for me, maybe the
partner or my partner would bethe spirit of you know, speakers
or whatever, you know, like whatif it was all of us thought of
(23:36):
it like that, instead of it'ssomething I have to do to pay
the bills?
Stephanie Allen (23:42):
Yeah. And sometimes just having that shift
that internal shift, changes howyou show up and changes what
happens in your current job oryour current relationship. Or
your current situation. Itliterally changes, it's a game
changer. Yeah, it's like you canlook at your partner, whatever
that is, you know, in your lifeas being a pain in the ass who's
(24:03):
trying to demand things fromyou. Or you can look at it and
say I get to do this, how can Ifall in love with this with
this, whatever this is right?
This job this person this, youknow, paying the bill this
whatever, like, if we cancultivate more love and meaning
and gratitude, it will changeit. But that is a practice.
Maren Oslac (24:25):
One of the questions that you could start
asking is, if I were able to doanything and partner with the
goddess of or the God of whatwould I do? What would I do?
What could that look like andstart playing and dreaming with
that. Because from where you areright now, you can't see the
(24:52):
possibility and when you plantthat seed with spirit with the
universe, it very well may comeand find you, because it starts,
it starts a thread ofpossibility. And until you start
that thread of possibility, it'sjust not out there yet.
Stephanie Allen (25:13):
That's right.
So letting go. So sometimes youdo need to let go, you have a
job or a relationship or, youknow, something that that has
been a struggle for you,
Maren Oslac (25:23):
or at least make space within that, right. Like,
I'm not doing X or I'm not doingy,
Stephanie Allen (25:30):
you were sharing a great anicdote of
like, when a tree falls, like,you know, it's it's let go. Its
roots, it's time for it to leaveits anchor.
Maren Oslac (25:39):
So what Stephanie's referring to is, before we got
on today, I said, when a treedies, and it falls or you know,
it doesn't just disappear, isnot poof, it's gone. It decays
in the forest, and it takes awhile. And in that decaying
process, it provides food, andshelter, and homes, and like all
(26:04):
kinds of stuff that's important.
Stephanie Allen (26:06):
So even in the decaying, it has meaning and
purpose.
Maren Oslac (26:09):
It does.
Stephanie Allen (26:10):
And so I think that's something to remember,
like when people are saying,well, I left this job or I left
that relationship or I movedtowns, we just turn it off,
right? It's like no, there's aprocess, right, that tree had a
process and it was still inservice. And if we can look
within to say, to remember that,as we're looking within and
asking yourself questions, orfinding that place of looking at
(26:34):
why, why did I attract this orfor what purpose that I need to
go through that. And when we canstart to cultivate the the
gifts, we're actually offeringit back as service to, to all
those around us. And it takestime.
Maren Oslac (26:49):
It does take time.
And I
Stephanie Allen (26:51):
it doesn't poof just disappear.
Maren Oslac (26:52):
It doesn't poof, and so when we leave a job, like
you said, when we leave a job orwhen we leave a relationship,
and we've we've made thatdeclaration, honoring that
decaying process of like, itstill needs something. And it's
it's still a part of you, right?
It's feeding other things, andthere's so much that it does
serve us and oftentimes, we justare like, Nope, I'm not thinking
(27:16):
about that. I don't want to talkabout it. I don't want to
exactly nothing to do with it.
Stephanie Allen (27:21):
how many times I'm thinking of people who have
No, andlost loved ones who say what
you're still grieving. And itmight be one year, it might be
10 years. And it's like, youknow, we're all different trees.
You know, sometimes we're just alittle tree, sometimes we are
hardwood, and a tall tree. Andit takes a long time. Yeah. But
as it is, if you're having ahard time going through a
process, it's okay, that you areactually decomposing and you are
(27:44):
like to be able to look withinbecause there's going to be a
lots and lots of treasure, andlots and lots of opportunities
for service and gifts, both toyourself and to those around you
as you go through the process.
Maren Oslac (27:56):
I love that, give ourselves permission.
Stephanie Allen (28:01):
Yeah, be kind.
Maren Oslac (28:03):
Yeah. And this is how we actually evolve, the
hustle culture is this is doing,showing up to the inner work,
asking the questions and beingwilling to sit with, and be
with, instead of instantlyturning it off, like, turn it
off, make your space and do someof the inner work. It is well
(28:31):
well worth the investmentbecause like Stephanie said,
otherwise, the next job you getwill be a basically a version of
the same thing. You're gonna gothrough the same exact stuff.
Yeah. Or maybe a little harder.
Stephanie Allen (28:47):
Hopefully not.
Maren Oslac (28:48):
Hopefully not, because hopefully you've taken
the time and you've asked somegreat questions, or at least A
question, start there. Well,thanks for joining us today, as
as I always tell you are,everything will be linked in the
show notes. So the movie that Imentioned earlier, and anything
(29:08):
else that we've talked about,I'll have a link in the show
notes so you can find thatthere. You can also find us on
Facebook, on LinkedIn and onYouTube. And don't forget that
we do have a free download onour website. So if you're
interested in finding out whenour podcasts come out and
getting first access to ourpodcasts, and getting our little
(29:28):
freebie, go head to our website,the soulful leader podcast.com
and sign up for our email list.
And we will see you all nextweek on the soulful leader
podcast.
Stephanie Allen (29:49):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (29:55):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (30:06):
Until next time
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