August 1, 2023 • 23 mins
We’ve all had those moments in our lives when everything feels ‘right’, we are totally engrossed in what we are doing and completely in sync with life - it’s magical. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi calls this the flow state, the optimal experience in life.
Our challenge is two fold. One, how do we create this state of flow ‘at will’ instead of stumbling across it now and again? And two, how do we maintain it once we get there?
Stephanie and Maren directly connect trust to our pursuit of flow in today’s short, powerful podcast. Using examples from poker champion, Phil Ivey, to the movie Everything Everywhere All At Once, this week’s podcast is not only engaging but will leave you with keys for shifting your own life towards more flow.
“It can be joyful, even when it's hard.” - Stephanie Allen
- 00:41 How trust is related to flow
- 04:44 Inner awareness, imagination and the secret to not aging
- 07:47 Decisions from a place of trust and flow, and then things go sideways
- 14:01 Your winning formula, creating real transformation
- 19:34 The two hardest moments and how to know you’re in flow
“When I know I am in flow, is when there's both effort, and sweetness.” - Maren Oslac
LINKS
MasterClass (01:01) app
I Get To vs I Have To (14:58) podcast EP15 Stories We Tell Ourselves: Redefining Our Truth
Everything, Everywhere, All At Once (16:25) movie
Practice Doesn’t Make Perfect (17:48) podcast Episode 39, "Matt Damon, Kintsugi and a Set of Dishes"
Please share your insights and questions in one of our Soulful Leaders groups:
Get all the latest episodes, news and updates directly to your inbox. Subscribe here. TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com
Watch the podcasts on our YouTube Channel: @Soulful Leaders
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maren Oslac (00:04):
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (00:20):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast.
Maren Oslac (00:29):
Sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Welcome back to the soulfulleader podcast. This is Maren
and I'm here with Stephanie. Andwe're chatting about flow and
(00:49):
trust. And how intricatelyconnected the two are. I was
listening to a masterclass onthe app masterclass. And I was
listening to a guy named PhilIvey, who was talking about,
he's a world champion pokerplayer, and he was talking about
(01:11):
the difference between thedecisions that he was making, he
started to notice that thedecisions that he would make
when he was winning, were verydifferent decisions than he
would make when he was losing.
And so he started to be aware ofthat. And, you know, we talk a
lot on this podcast about selfawareness. And when I was
(01:32):
listening to it, I thought aboutthe trust and flow thing of when
we're winning, we tend to trustourselves more, and we are in
flow. When we're losing, we, wewant to insulate ourselves, we
(01:52):
want to, and if you use thewords, instead of winning and
losing, if you use the words,you know, like that you're happy
and joyful, and it's a good day.
Versus when someone'ssomething's gone wrong.
(02:12):
Someone's not giving you thething on time for work, or
you're, you're, you're kind ofstressed about something, we
want to insulate ourselves. Andso we pull in, right, think
about when a time in your life,where everything has been going
great, and you feel like you'rein flow, and it's like, you're
(02:33):
you do you have this trust, andyou're like, the decisions that
you make, are very differentfrom those times in your lives,
where you feel like you need toprotect yourself like, Oops,
something's gone wrong, quote,unquote, wrong.
Stephanie Allen (02:48):
You know, you know, and when something goes
wrong, when you're talking abouttrust and flow, that's when we
get you know, if we haven'tbuilt the internal structures, a
practice to slow down to makespace to drop in to listen to
what our inner dialogue mightbe, then it's very easily to
(03:09):
default into not trusting, ordoubting the future, or, you
know, being afraid of theunknown, like, will default to
the lowest common denominator,right. And I have this thing of
like, we practice what we need,when we don't need it. So that
we'll remember it when we do.
But that's the whole key is thatwe have to practice. And I
think, you know, trust doesn'tjust come naturally, or easy and
(03:31):
yet, we should say, oh, youshould just trust everybody that
willy nilly kind of thing. No,it needs to be earned. And
there's different levels oftrust that you'll have for
different people that you'vebuilt a relationship with.
That's the key is making thatkey connection and relationship.
Yeah,
Maren Oslac (03:50):
and I think the relationship, outter
relationship, and therelationship, inner
relationship, with yourself toknow yourself, and that's what I
loved about when he was talking.
It wasn't, Oh, I had this ahamoment and poof, it was fixed or
it was changed. It was a processfor him to notice over time, the
difference of what he was doing,when he was losing versus what
(04:17):
he was doing when he winning,was the decisions he was making.
And then beyond that, is once henoticed that there was a
difference, then starting tocatch it when he's doing it. And
there's this, it's an entireprocess of rebuilding, right,
building that trust and buildingthat flow in places and in times
where our default has beensomething other than trust and
(04:40):
flow.
Stephanie Allen (04:44):
And I love that piece of it. It's like there it
is a process of building thatinner awareness and slowing down
enough to make space to listento it. So that you know study it
and to study it and to becurious about and going huh I
wonder if I shifted this way orthought that differently or my
behavior changed with whateverand you try different things on.
(05:05):
Or imagine I can say, you know,the whole cultivation of
imagination is so powerful, likewhat goes on in our own inner
world, our own inner dialogue,our own inner imaginations about
something in the outer world. Ohmy god. Like, I just think about
it. It's like when people saythey don't have any imagination,
I'm like, bullshit, you don't, Ibet you've imagined the worst
(05:28):
case scenario many, many times.
Probably multiple levels of theworst case scenario, all of
which did not happen. And so ifyou have that much energy to
focus on the fear, and thedoubt, and the worry, and the
shame, or whatever, have you theDIS ease in your life, what
would you imagine would happenedif you started to shift that
attention towards an ideal, andpractice it? You know, one of
(05:50):
one of our teachers, I was justmeeting with her the other day,
she's in her 80s. And, and shesaid to me, she said, Stephanie,
do you know the secret of, ofnot aging? And I'm like, oh, no,
I don't know the secret. Pleasedo tell, do tell, right? It's
like, well, well, how do you notage she said, find a time in
your life where your body andyour consciousness and awareness
(06:14):
was at its height, like just itsabsolute vibrancy, luminosity,
you know, and presence that, andpractice that daily, breathe it
in, talk to yourself that way,feel that way, you know. I have
another one of my friends whosays, you know that he imagines
that he's 19 all the time, hewas line, just think 19. Think
like you're 19 you know, theworld is open to you, you know,
(06:36):
you can live forever, you've gotall kinds of inner energy and
life force, you know, you thinkdifferently, you can still have
the wisdom of your current selfnow. But what that whole idea is
that it becomes a practice ofyour imagination. And your body
does not know the differencebetween what is real, so
(06:57):
realism, what is real, and whatis imagined. So if you're
imagining worst case scenarios,and you know, betrayal, and fear
and doubt, and worry, and allthese, you are more than likely
going to create a behavioralmindset towards that. And that
those are going to take you downthat way. Versus if you take
(07:18):
that same imagination as apractice, however, you want to
do that. And there's lots ofways to different practice, but
to then move in a differentdirection. But that does take
time. It does take practice, andyou can do it when you don't
need it. So like, you know,you're waiting in line, you
know, at the grocery store, oryou're waiting in line at the
(07:38):
theater or something like that,like practice your imagination
right then and there. Why not,right? You know, cultivate it so
that you do it when you don'tneed it so that you'll have it
when you do.
Maren Oslac (07:47):
I think that's a fantastic practice. And it goes
hand in hand. Because when youare imagining worst case
scenario, again, what are thedecisions you're going to make
from that place, versusimagining yourself with the
world is your oyster and thingsare going well, and the
(08:07):
decisions that you'll make fromthat place? And where they're
going to take you. And it's sodifferent and we look at people
like I know, one of our otherteachers, he, you know, it's
like, he would always referenceRichard Branson. And he would
always say to us, at least tome, anyway, business wise, like,
(08:28):
what if Richard Branson, wererunning your business? What?
What are the decisions that hewould make? How would he look at
it differently? And when I whenI was listening to this guy,
Phil today, I it made me thinkof that of it's the same type of
thing except I'm doing it insidemyself instead of saying, What
(08:49):
would Richard Branson do? It'swhat would winning Maren do?
What would
Stephanie Allen (08:53):
I'm gonna bring up something and you know, kind
of sabotaging only because Iwant I want to make a point of
this because it's exactly asyou're starting to practice it,
like what would Richard Bransondo? And you start to cultivate
the ideals and then so whathappens when things go sideways,
and all of a sudden muck startscoming up and things are, you
know, flying in differentdirections, and you feel a
(09:16):
little bit chaotic andoverwhelmed. And, you know, it's
like shit, it's not working thisimagination shit is just not
working. And I'm like, I'm gonnasay no, that's, that's actually
not true. It's actually really,really working. Because what,
what someone had said to me onceit's like, think about
gardening. You know, we see thislovely flower above ground, and
(09:36):
we don't acknowledge its rootsystem underneath. There's a lot
going on underneath thatsurface. A lot going on. And
it's, we don't have to doanything. All we do is like,
create the nice space and, andappreciate in value, we need to
weed it, but there's so muchstructure going on inside and I
think that is the parallel isthat, Do we have the internal
structures inside ourselves tosupport the outer blossoming of
(09:59):
our life? And so when we, thingsare going sideways, things are
chaotic, maybe we've dug downin. and if you ever pull out a
weed, and it just seems to beattached to a whole bunch of
other ones, and you're justlike, oh my god, it just keeps
going, it's going and going, andyou're hitting the muck. So if
you're digging underneath theground for water, and it's it,
(10:20):
you know, you've been diggingfor a long, long time. And it's
almost like, the more you dig,the more stuff comes up, the
more weeds come up, the morerocks have to be cleared out.
You're like, oh, my gosh, am Iever gonna find water? And then
all of a sudden, it gets mucky.
And you're like, great. Now it'sreally yucky. But that's the key
when it gets mucky Is thatbecause you're almost there.
(10:41):
Life goes sideways, life getsoverwhelmed, life gets
challenging, because you havethe inner resources to be able
to transcend it. And I think weforget about that.
Maren Oslac (10:52):
Yeah, we assume that, So if I'm in flow, that
means there's no problems,
Stephanie Allen (10:57):
right? Because it's easy, it should be easy. If
you're in flow, it's easy peasy.
It's a breezy, you know it butit's not. It's, I mean, it can
be but it's like the work ishard, it isn't easy. But there's
a different quality that showsup to do the work, right? Like
so I get to do this, rather thanI have to do this. And sometimes
we have to do this too. But it'slike, but the blessing is, is
(11:19):
that if you have some reallygreat structures and great
imagination, to be able tocultivate that inner gardener
inside yourself.
Maren Oslac (11:31):
And I am reminded of, you know, when you when we
first fall in love that firstblush of blush of love, where
it's like, the person next toyou, the person you're in love
with, they can do no wrong, theworld is beautiful. It's like
it's not that there are noproblems during that phase. It
just says that they're mucheasier to work with, because
(11:53):
you're in love. Right? So how doyou cultivate being in love with
yourself with the world with theproblems around you with
whatever, so that that that'sthe flow that we're talking
about? It doesn't make theproblems go away. It just makes
it more palatable maybe? It canin joy.
Stephanie Allen (12:16):
Yeah, what I'm hearing you say to us is what
are you bringing to the problem?
Are you bringing a source ofstruggle and strife and fear and
doubt and worry? Are youbringing a source of being in
love? Like I get to do this, Ilove this. I have to say, How
can I fall in love with this?
Like I was I was having to dogarbage, like, you know, I have
(12:38):
to do garbage every week, right?
Take it out, put it to the curb.
And part of me was kind of goinginto self pity going, Oh, I wish
I just had somebody else to dothis. I hate doing this. And
then all of a sudden I heardmyself say, Hey, isn't it great,
I have something to throw away.
I have enough lifeforce thatI've accumulated stuff, that I
have the wherewithal to actuallykick it to the curb. And so I've
(13:01):
said, Well, I can either do thisbegrudgingly, and with self
pity, or I can do this, thiswhatever activity with value and
appreciation. And I remembersaying that about taxes, paying
taxes, and I'm like, well, likewho wants it, nobody wants to
pay taxes, nobody does, youknow, but at the same time, if
we can shift that internaldialogue to at least I have the
(13:24):
money to be able to pay them, orI created enough life force. And
I created enough service andimpact in this world that I can
I look at it as philanthropy.
That's how I look at taxes. Now.
It's like I have to tell myself,I'm giving back. I don't know
what I'm giving back to, but I'mgiving back to the universe. You
know, sometimes it may not bethe the way that I want to be
(13:47):
giving back to, but I know I'mgiving back and to focus on what
what is it that makes me feelempowered, and lighter, rather
than heavy and burdened.
Maren Oslac (14:01):
I think that there's so many, essentially, it
all still comes back to thatflow and trust, of building, how
do we build that into our liveson a regular basis so that we
are accessing it voluntarily andconsciously and not stumbling
(14:23):
upon it and wondering how do wemake this happen again. And
there's, I see that, you know,like we brought up multiple
different ways today of, ofapproaching that. From how do
you choose to take your garbageout? Or pay your taxes? Right,
(14:44):
how am I choosing to what's,what's my attention? What
attention Am I putting on that?
Is it a negative of grumble,grumble? Or is it a hey, I get
to do this. We have a podcast onI get to versus I have to which
was a fun one, it was a whileago. I will put links for all of
the stuff in in the show notes.
(15:07):
So anybody that's driving, youknow, or you don't have to go
back and look through things Iwill. But all of it comes back
to that same place of like, whatis, where do you want to go? Do
you want to, taking it back tothe poker player, do you want to
(15:30):
take the time, and invest inyourself and look into what is
my winning formula? What is mywinning formula? Because I am
different when I'm in my winningformula, than I'm in when I'm in
my losing formula, and nobodyelse, you can have exemplars,
(15:53):
and nobody else is exactly likeyou. So it will eventually come
down to looking within to findyour winning formula,
Stephanie Allen (16:03):
which is ultimately ultimately your best
self. I say, you know, you mightbe one self at home, and another
self at work and another selfwith a friend, and another self,
you know, at the gym, likethere's all these different
'selves' that we create. And,you know, the practice kind of
(16:24):
reminds me of that movie, youknow, Everything, Everywhere,
All at Once with Michelle Yeohwhere she has created an adapted
self. Like when she's stressedor differ, or you know, having
challenges, she just kind ofgoes off into day-dreamland and
creates an alternative life,which in the movie creates an
alternative universe, themetaverse and, you know, without
(16:44):
giving a whole lot away, it's afabulous movie, you know, she
learns how to create a practicethat, that brings all of those
adapted cells and transcendsthem into her one true self in
this moment. And that takespractice. So we use imagination
to cultivate other lives, orother ways and say, you know,
(17:05):
what is this, what is this selfthat I that I am requiring right
now, to be able to take out thegarbage, to pay out the, you
know, pay my taxes or to bepresent to this difficult
situation? What within me do Ineed to cultivate, so that I can
be present and stay true to mytrue self, with love and
(17:26):
kindness? And that does takepractice and everyone has their
own, it's not a one size fitsall, you know, but to be able to
find your own way. And I thinkthere's so much in this world
right now, that is kind ofsaying, oh, seven steps to
whatever, you know, you know,winning the lotto, I don't know,
but seven steps to you know,giving your ideal relationship
or whatever, putting yourbusiness in order. But
(17:50):
ultimately, you'll you need tofind that from within, there are
infinite amount of practices.
And this is where we do needresources that we can, you know,
cultivate together and trythings on, see what works, see
what doesn't, but the ideal isthe practice. And I, you know,
we had another podcast aboutpractice doesn't make perfect,
it makes permanent, right. And Ithink that's a real key to
(18:15):
remember is that the more youpractice something so if you're
practicing the imagination of ohmy god, doom and gloom, life
sucks kind of thing that isgoing to create a permanent
groove in your process in your,your neuro chemistry, so to
speak, and you're going to havea very different body, a very
different vehicle of which youoperate in. Probably a little
(18:37):
squeaky, probably a littlepainful, you know, sometimes,
and pain is not a bad thing.
It's me as a pain therapist,right? It can be an awakening to
say, oh, there, I've hit mark,to keep going go in, go in go in
because there's gold underneaththere, there's going to be the
mother lode that's going to comeup, just you are so close. And I
(19:00):
think when we get pain ordisease, whatever you might want
to label that whether it'sphysical, mental, emotional,
spiritual relationships,whatever it is. If you can say,
this is my opportunity to go indeeper, I need a practice, or I
need a reflection of somebody tolook at it differently. That's
when we can start to reallytransform. And we become the
(19:24):
remedy not only for ourselves,but we offer that as a remedy
for others. You know, we becomethe, you know, be the change you
want to see in the world. I lovethat from Gandhi.
Maren Oslac (19:34):
i When you were talking, I was reminded that the
two hardest things to do isstart something and finish
something. And when oftentimeswhen things are the crunchiest
when we feel like we're in themost muck, and this is what
you're saying is like, we're soclose. We're in that last 1% And
(19:58):
most people give up at that 99,they've done 99% of the work.
And it gets so hard that last 1%It's like, it feels like, why
bother. And so then they giveup. And that's the, like, if we
can just have, that's the valueof the practice. So that it's
(20:25):
ongoing, it keeps us. And it'salso the value of having
somebody else there that we cansay, hey, I'm stuck. I'm so
stuck in this, can you please.
Stephanie Allen (20:40):
You know, it gives the opportunity to ask for
help, and also opens you toactually receive it. Because,
you know, that's the good newsof being stuck in the muck, is,
is that, you know, we do need toask for help, which means we're
not meant to be isolated, we doneed each other. And it also,
(21:01):
you know, suffering, how muchsuffering do you really want to
have until you can receive help?
I think some of us have a highlevel of tolerance to be able to
say, I can take on a lot, and alot and No, no, I can do it by
myself. Thanks very much. Youknow, don't trust don't feel,
don't talk. Just keep on going.
It's like, you know, it getspretty tiresome after a while.
And you don't have to wait tillyou're broken open to receive,
(21:24):
you can literally choose to justbe open. Because you're worth
it. And I say, you know thatwork? Yeah, the work is hard.
It's not easy. And guess what?
It's going to be a lifetime ofwork. Might as, might as well
find a way to enjoy it. Becausewe get to do this this time.
Exactly. And it can be joyful,even when it's hard. Okay,
Maren Oslac (21:47):
and that's, for me, I think that's maybe not the
definition of flow, anddefinitely, when I know I am in
flow, is when there's botheffort, and sweetness. If it's
all sweetness, it's like eatingsugar, right? It's the fake
thing
Stephanie Allen (22:04):
You're going to crash
Maren Oslac (22:05):
Right, you're gonna crash. And if it's all effort,
you're also going to crashbecause you just can't sustain
it. So when there's a balance ofboth effort and sweetness, now I
know I am in flow.
Stephanie Allen (22:19):
It's like the inhale and exhale that I use,
you know, it's that mandorla,the two circles that overlap
with each other. And it's wherethey connect is where I love
that effort and sweetness. Thankyou. Yeah.
Maren Oslac (22:32):
So remember, we will put everything into the
show notes. And if you wouldlove to connect with us, we
would love to hear from you. Youcan find us on the soulful
leaders, both on Facebook, andLinkedIn. And actually, you can
find us there on the soulfulleaders on YouTube as well. So
(22:54):
thanks for joining us today andwe would love to hear from you.
And we will see you all nextweek on the soulful leader
podcast.
Stephanie Allen (23:10):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (23:16):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (23:27):
Until next time,
In a world where achievements and accolades
motivate us to do more and bemore, we're often left
wondering, is this really it?
Stephanie Allen (00:12):
deep inside, you know, there is more to life,
you're ready to leave behind theold push your way through and
claim the deeper life that'scalling you.
Maren Oslac (00:20):
That's where we excel. We're your hosts,
Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.
Stephanie Allen (00:26):
And this is the soulful leader podcast.
Maren Oslac (00:29):
Sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've
uncovered to help you make shifthappen.
Welcome back to the soulfulleader podcast. This is Maren
and I'm here with Stephanie. Andwe're chatting about flow and
(00:49):
trust. And how intricatelyconnected the two are. I was
listening to a masterclass onthe app masterclass. And I was
listening to a guy named PhilIvey, who was talking about,
he's a world champion pokerplayer, and he was talking about
(01:11):
the difference between thedecisions that he was making, he
started to notice that thedecisions that he would make
when he was winning, were verydifferent decisions than he
would make when he was losing.
And so he started to be aware ofthat. And, you know, we talk a
lot on this podcast about selfawareness. And when I was
(01:32):
listening to it, I thought aboutthe trust and flow thing of when
we're winning, we tend to trustourselves more, and we are in
flow. When we're losing, we, wewant to insulate ourselves, we
(01:52):
want to, and if you use thewords, instead of winning and
losing, if you use the words,you know, like that you're happy
and joyful, and it's a good day.
Versus when someone'ssomething's gone wrong.
(02:12):
Someone's not giving you thething on time for work, or
you're, you're, you're kind ofstressed about something, we
want to insulate ourselves. Andso we pull in, right, think
about when a time in your life,where everything has been going
great, and you feel like you'rein flow, and it's like, you're
(02:33):
you do you have this trust, andyou're like, the decisions that
you make, are very differentfrom those times in your lives,
where you feel like you need toprotect yourself like, Oops,
something's gone wrong, quote,unquote, wrong.
Stephanie Allen (02:48):
You know, you know, and when something goes
wrong, when you're talking abouttrust and flow, that's when we
get you know, if we haven'tbuilt the internal structures, a
practice to slow down to makespace to drop in to listen to
what our inner dialogue mightbe, then it's very easily to
(03:09):
default into not trusting, ordoubting the future, or, you
know, being afraid of theunknown, like, will default to
the lowest common denominator,right. And I have this thing of
like, we practice what we need,when we don't need it. So that
we'll remember it when we do.
But that's the whole key is thatwe have to practice. And I
think, you know, trust doesn'tjust come naturally, or easy and
(03:31):
yet, we should say, oh, youshould just trust everybody that
willy nilly kind of thing. No,it needs to be earned. And
there's different levels oftrust that you'll have for
different people that you'vebuilt a relationship with.
That's the key is making thatkey connection and relationship.
Yeah,
Maren Oslac (03:50):
and I think the relationship, outter
relationship, and therelationship, inner
relationship, with yourself toknow yourself, and that's what I
loved about when he was talking.
It wasn't, Oh, I had this ahamoment and poof, it was fixed or
it was changed. It was a processfor him to notice over time, the
difference of what he was doing,when he was losing versus what
(04:17):
he was doing when he winning,was the decisions he was making.
And then beyond that, is once henoticed that there was a
difference, then starting tocatch it when he's doing it. And
there's this, it's an entireprocess of rebuilding, right,
building that trust and buildingthat flow in places and in times
where our default has beensomething other than trust and
(04:40):
flow.
Stephanie Allen (04:44):
And I love that piece of it. It's like there it
is a process of building thatinner awareness and slowing down
enough to make space to listento it. So that you know study it
and to study it and to becurious about and going huh I
wonder if I shifted this way orthought that differently or my
behavior changed with whateverand you try different things on.
(05:05):
Or imagine I can say, you know,the whole cultivation of
imagination is so powerful, likewhat goes on in our own inner
world, our own inner dialogue,our own inner imaginations about
something in the outer world. Ohmy god. Like, I just think about
it. It's like when people saythey don't have any imagination,
I'm like, bullshit, you don't, Ibet you've imagined the worst
(05:28):
case scenario many, many times.
Probably multiple levels of theworst case scenario, all of
which did not happen. And so ifyou have that much energy to
focus on the fear, and thedoubt, and the worry, and the
shame, or whatever, have you theDIS ease in your life, what
would you imagine would happenedif you started to shift that
attention towards an ideal, andpractice it? You know, one of
(05:50):
one of our teachers, I was justmeeting with her the other day,
she's in her 80s. And, and shesaid to me, she said, Stephanie,
do you know the secret of, ofnot aging? And I'm like, oh, no,
I don't know the secret. Pleasedo tell, do tell, right? It's
like, well, well, how do you notage she said, find a time in
your life where your body andyour consciousness and awareness
(06:14):
was at its height, like just itsabsolute vibrancy, luminosity,
you know, and presence that, andpractice that daily, breathe it
in, talk to yourself that way,feel that way, you know. I have
another one of my friends whosays, you know that he imagines
that he's 19 all the time, hewas line, just think 19. Think
like you're 19 you know, theworld is open to you, you know,
(06:36):
you can live forever, you've gotall kinds of inner energy and
life force, you know, you thinkdifferently, you can still have
the wisdom of your current selfnow. But what that whole idea is
that it becomes a practice ofyour imagination. And your body
does not know the differencebetween what is real, so
(06:57):
realism, what is real, and whatis imagined. So if you're
imagining worst case scenarios,and you know, betrayal, and fear
and doubt, and worry, and allthese, you are more than likely
going to create a behavioralmindset towards that. And that
those are going to take you downthat way. Versus if you take
(07:18):
that same imagination as apractice, however, you want to
do that. And there's lots ofways to different practice, but
to then move in a differentdirection. But that does take
time. It does take practice, andyou can do it when you don't
need it. So like, you know,you're waiting in line, you
know, at the grocery store, oryou're waiting in line at the
(07:38):
theater or something like that,like practice your imagination
right then and there. Why not,right? You know, cultivate it so
that you do it when you don'tneed it so that you'll have it
when you do.
Maren Oslac (07:47):
I think that's a fantastic practice. And it goes
hand in hand. Because when youare imagining worst case
scenario, again, what are thedecisions you're going to make
from that place, versusimagining yourself with the
world is your oyster and thingsare going well, and the
(08:07):
decisions that you'll make fromthat place? And where they're
going to take you. And it's sodifferent and we look at people
like I know, one of our otherteachers, he, you know, it's
like, he would always referenceRichard Branson. And he would
always say to us, at least tome, anyway, business wise, like,
(08:28):
what if Richard Branson, wererunning your business? What?
What are the decisions that hewould make? How would he look at
it differently? And when I whenI was listening to this guy,
Phil today, I it made me thinkof that of it's the same type of
thing except I'm doing it insidemyself instead of saying, What
(08:49):
would Richard Branson do? It'swhat would winning Maren do?
What would
Stephanie Allen (08:53):
I'm gonna bring up something and you know, kind
of sabotaging only because Iwant I want to make a point of
this because it's exactly asyou're starting to practice it,
like what would Richard Bransondo? And you start to cultivate
the ideals and then so whathappens when things go sideways,
and all of a sudden muck startscoming up and things are, you
know, flying in differentdirections, and you feel a
(09:16):
little bit chaotic andoverwhelmed. And, you know, it's
like shit, it's not working thisimagination shit is just not
working. And I'm like, I'm gonnasay no, that's, that's actually
not true. It's actually really,really working. Because what,
what someone had said to me onceit's like, think about
gardening. You know, we see thislovely flower above ground, and
(09:36):
we don't acknowledge its rootsystem underneath. There's a lot
going on underneath thatsurface. A lot going on. And
it's, we don't have to doanything. All we do is like,
create the nice space and, andappreciate in value, we need to
weed it, but there's so muchstructure going on inside and I
think that is the parallel isthat, Do we have the internal
structures inside ourselves tosupport the outer blossoming of
(09:59):
our life? And so when we, thingsare going sideways, things are
chaotic, maybe we've dug downin. and if you ever pull out a
weed, and it just seems to beattached to a whole bunch of
other ones, and you're justlike, oh my god, it just keeps
going, it's going and going, andyou're hitting the muck. So if
you're digging underneath theground for water, and it's it,
(10:20):
you know, you've been diggingfor a long, long time. And it's
almost like, the more you dig,the more stuff comes up, the
more weeds come up, the morerocks have to be cleared out.
You're like, oh, my gosh, am Iever gonna find water? And then
all of a sudden, it gets mucky.
And you're like, great. Now it'sreally yucky. But that's the key
when it gets mucky Is thatbecause you're almost there.
(10:41):
Life goes sideways, life getsoverwhelmed, life gets
challenging, because you havethe inner resources to be able
to transcend it. And I think weforget about that.
Maren Oslac (10:52):
Yeah, we assume that, So if I'm in flow, that
means there's no problems,
Stephanie Allen (10:57):
right? Because it's easy, it should be easy. If
you're in flow, it's easy peasy.
It's a breezy, you know it butit's not. It's, I mean, it can
be but it's like the work ishard, it isn't easy. But there's
a different quality that showsup to do the work, right? Like
so I get to do this, rather thanI have to do this. And sometimes
we have to do this too. But it'slike, but the blessing is, is
(11:19):
that if you have some reallygreat structures and great
imagination, to be able tocultivate that inner gardener
inside yourself.
Maren Oslac (11:31):
And I am reminded of, you know, when you when we
first fall in love that firstblush of blush of love, where
it's like, the person next toyou, the person you're in love
with, they can do no wrong, theworld is beautiful. It's like
it's not that there are noproblems during that phase. It
just says that they're mucheasier to work with, because
(11:53):
you're in love. Right? So how doyou cultivate being in love with
yourself with the world with theproblems around you with
whatever, so that that that'sthe flow that we're talking
about? It doesn't make theproblems go away. It just makes
it more palatable maybe? It canin joy.
Stephanie Allen (12:16):
Yeah, what I'm hearing you say to us is what
are you bringing to the problem?
Are you bringing a source ofstruggle and strife and fear and
doubt and worry? Are youbringing a source of being in
love? Like I get to do this, Ilove this. I have to say, How
can I fall in love with this?
Like I was I was having to dogarbage, like, you know, I have
(12:38):
to do garbage every week, right?
Take it out, put it to the curb.
And part of me was kind of goinginto self pity going, Oh, I wish
I just had somebody else to dothis. I hate doing this. And
then all of a sudden I heardmyself say, Hey, isn't it great,
I have something to throw away.
I have enough lifeforce thatI've accumulated stuff, that I
have the wherewithal to actuallykick it to the curb. And so I've
(13:01):
said, Well, I can either do thisbegrudgingly, and with self
pity, or I can do this, thiswhatever activity with value and
appreciation. And I remembersaying that about taxes, paying
taxes, and I'm like, well, likewho wants it, nobody wants to
pay taxes, nobody does, youknow, but at the same time, if
we can shift that internaldialogue to at least I have the
(13:24):
money to be able to pay them, orI created enough life force. And
I created enough service andimpact in this world that I can
I look at it as philanthropy.
That's how I look at taxes. Now.
It's like I have to tell myself,I'm giving back. I don't know
what I'm giving back to, but I'mgiving back to the universe. You
know, sometimes it may not bethe the way that I want to be
(13:47):
giving back to, but I know I'mgiving back and to focus on what
what is it that makes me feelempowered, and lighter, rather
than heavy and burdened.
Maren Oslac (14:01):
I think that there's so many, essentially, it
all still comes back to thatflow and trust, of building, how
do we build that into our liveson a regular basis so that we
are accessing it voluntarily andconsciously and not stumbling
(14:23):
upon it and wondering how do wemake this happen again. And
there's, I see that, you know,like we brought up multiple
different ways today of, ofapproaching that. From how do
you choose to take your garbageout? Or pay your taxes? Right,
(14:44):
how am I choosing to what's,what's my attention? What
attention Am I putting on that?
Is it a negative of grumble,grumble? Or is it a hey, I get
to do this. We have a podcast onI get to versus I have to which
was a fun one, it was a whileago. I will put links for all of
the stuff in in the show notes.
(15:07):
So anybody that's driving, youknow, or you don't have to go
back and look through things Iwill. But all of it comes back
to that same place of like, whatis, where do you want to go? Do
you want to, taking it back tothe poker player, do you want to
(15:30):
take the time, and invest inyourself and look into what is
my winning formula? What is mywinning formula? Because I am
different when I'm in my winningformula, than I'm in when I'm in
my losing formula, and nobodyelse, you can have exemplars,
(15:53):
and nobody else is exactly likeyou. So it will eventually come
down to looking within to findyour winning formula,
Stephanie Allen (16:03):
which is ultimately ultimately your best
self. I say, you know, you mightbe one self at home, and another
self at work and another selfwith a friend, and another self,
you know, at the gym, likethere's all these different
'selves' that we create. And,you know, the practice kind of
(16:24):
reminds me of that movie, youknow, Everything, Everywhere,
All at Once with Michelle Yeohwhere she has created an adapted
self. Like when she's stressedor differ, or you know, having
challenges, she just kind ofgoes off into day-dreamland and
creates an alternative life,which in the movie creates an
alternative universe, themetaverse and, you know, without
(16:44):
giving a whole lot away, it's afabulous movie, you know, she
learns how to create a practicethat, that brings all of those
adapted cells and transcendsthem into her one true self in
this moment. And that takespractice. So we use imagination
to cultivate other lives, orother ways and say, you know,
(17:05):
what is this, what is this selfthat I that I am requiring right
now, to be able to take out thegarbage, to pay out the, you
know, pay my taxes or to bepresent to this difficult
situation? What within me do Ineed to cultivate, so that I can
be present and stay true to mytrue self, with love and
(17:26):
kindness? And that does takepractice and everyone has their
own, it's not a one size fitsall, you know, but to be able to
find your own way. And I thinkthere's so much in this world
right now, that is kind ofsaying, oh, seven steps to
whatever, you know, you know,winning the lotto, I don't know,
but seven steps to you know,giving your ideal relationship
or whatever, putting yourbusiness in order. But
(17:50):
ultimately, you'll you need tofind that from within, there are
infinite amount of practices.
And this is where we do needresources that we can, you know,
cultivate together and trythings on, see what works, see
what doesn't, but the ideal isthe practice. And I, you know,
we had another podcast aboutpractice doesn't make perfect,
it makes permanent, right. And Ithink that's a real key to
(18:15):
remember is that the more youpractice something so if you're
practicing the imagination of ohmy god, doom and gloom, life
sucks kind of thing that isgoing to create a permanent
groove in your process in your,your neuro chemistry, so to
speak, and you're going to havea very different body, a very
different vehicle of which youoperate in. Probably a little
(18:37):
squeaky, probably a littlepainful, you know, sometimes,
and pain is not a bad thing.
It's me as a pain therapist,right? It can be an awakening to
say, oh, there, I've hit mark,to keep going go in, go in go in
because there's gold underneaththere, there's going to be the
mother lode that's going to comeup, just you are so close. And I
(19:00):
think when we get pain ordisease, whatever you might want
to label that whether it'sphysical, mental, emotional,
spiritual relationships,whatever it is. If you can say,
this is my opportunity to go indeeper, I need a practice, or I
need a reflection of somebody tolook at it differently. That's
when we can start to reallytransform. And we become the
(19:24):
remedy not only for ourselves,but we offer that as a remedy
for others. You know, we becomethe, you know, be the change you
want to see in the world. I lovethat from Gandhi.
Maren Oslac (19:34):
i When you were talking, I was reminded that the
two hardest things to do isstart something and finish
something. And when oftentimeswhen things are the crunchiest
when we feel like we're in themost muck, and this is what
you're saying is like, we're soclose. We're in that last 1% And
(19:58):
most people give up at that 99,they've done 99% of the work.
And it gets so hard that last 1%It's like, it feels like, why
bother. And so then they giveup. And that's the, like, if we
can just have, that's the valueof the practice. So that it's
(20:25):
ongoing, it keeps us. And it'salso the value of having
somebody else there that we cansay, hey, I'm stuck. I'm so
stuck in this, can you please.
Stephanie Allen (20:40):
You know, it gives the opportunity to ask for
help, and also opens you toactually receive it. Because,
you know, that's the good newsof being stuck in the muck, is,
is that, you know, we do need toask for help, which means we're
not meant to be isolated, we doneed each other. And it also,
(21:01):
you know, suffering, how muchsuffering do you really want to
have until you can receive help?
I think some of us have a highlevel of tolerance to be able to
say, I can take on a lot, and alot and No, no, I can do it by
myself. Thanks very much. Youknow, don't trust don't feel,
don't talk. Just keep on going.
It's like, you know, it getspretty tiresome after a while.
And you don't have to wait tillyou're broken open to receive,
(21:24):
you can literally choose to justbe open. Because you're worth
it. And I say, you know thatwork? Yeah, the work is hard.
It's not easy. And guess what?
It's going to be a lifetime ofwork. Might as, might as well
find a way to enjoy it. Becausewe get to do this this time.
Exactly. And it can be joyful,even when it's hard. Okay,
Maren Oslac (21:47):
and that's, for me, I think that's maybe not the
definition of flow, anddefinitely, when I know I am in
flow, is when there's botheffort, and sweetness. If it's
all sweetness, it's like eatingsugar, right? It's the fake
thing
Stephanie Allen (22:04):
You're going to crash
Maren Oslac (22:05):
Right, you're gonna crash. And if it's all effort,
you're also going to crashbecause you just can't sustain
it. So when there's a balance ofboth effort and sweetness, now I
know I am in flow.
Stephanie Allen (22:19):
It's like the inhale and exhale that I use,
you know, it's that mandorla,the two circles that overlap
with each other. And it's wherethey connect is where I love
that effort and sweetness. Thankyou. Yeah.
Maren Oslac (22:32):
So remember, we will put everything into the
show notes. And if you wouldlove to connect with us, we
would love to hear from you. Youcan find us on the soulful
leaders, both on Facebook, andLinkedIn. And actually, you can
find us there on the soulfulleaders on YouTube as well. So
(22:54):
thanks for joining us today andwe would love to hear from you.
And we will see you all nextweek on the soulful leader
podcast.
Stephanie Allen (23:10):
And that wraps up another episode of the
soulful leader podcast with yourhosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac (23:16):
and Maren Oslac.
Thank you for listening. Ifyou'd like to dive deeper, head
over to our website at thesoulful leader podcast.com.
Stephanie Allen (23:27):
Until next time,
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