May 30, 2023 • 26 mins
The Journal of Orthopedic and Sports Physical Therapy, or JOSPT, is one of the most well-read and prestigious journals in our field. Clare Ardern, Editor-in-Chief of the journal, has done an amazing job.
In this episode, she's going to share some exciting new things that JOSPT has been working on that I know you're going to love. Plus, we're going to take a peek behind the scenes of the editorial process of JOSPT, talk about her role as editor-in-chief, and she's even going to share some valuable advice for prospective authors on how to write the best manuscripts to increase your chances of publication.
Full show notes: https://mikereinold.com/behind-the-scenes-of-jospt-with-clare-ardern
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On this episode of the sportsphysical therapy podcast.
I am joined by Claire, our DernClaire's the editor in chief of
P T or the journal of orthopedicand sports, physical therapy.
In this episode, she's going toshare some exciting new things
that JSP.
Has been working on that.
I know you're going to love,plus, we're going to take a peek
behind the scenes of theeditorial process of the
journal.
(00:20):
Talk about her role as editor inchief, and she's even going to
share some valuable advice forprospective authors on how to
write the best manuscripts toincrease your chances of
publication.
Mike (00:42):
Hey, Claire, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joining.
Clare (00:46):
Thanks, Mike.
It's a pleasure to join you andhave the chance to chat with
your listeners today.
Mike (00:50):
thank you so much for, for, for being here.
Um, I mean, editor-in-chief of JS P T, that's, that's a big job.
Uh, why don't we start with,with, with a little bit about
your path.
How did you, how do, how doesone become the editor in chief
of J S P T?
I mean, it's such a, uh, awell-known and prestigious
journal.
Um, I mean that, that, that's areally impressive position for
(01:13):
you to be in.
Tell us a little bit about howyou.
Clare (01:16):
Thanks, Mike.
It's definitely a privilege tohave this role, and it's a
privilege because I.
So many fantastic people throughthis job, and I get to see the
cutting edge of research.
I think my career got a bit fasttracked to editor-in-chief
because I met a wonderful friendand mentor, professor Kaka, who
many folks will know from his BJs m editor-in-chief days, and I
(01:38):
had the really good fortune ofworking with Caram on.
On Bjsm for a number of yearsbetween 2015 and 2018.
So I got to know the insideworkings of a journal.
And one of Carre's superpowersis that he's such a champion for
young clinicians, youngresearchers, and particularly
women.
So I feel very fortunate to havemade that connection with him
(02:01):
who have had to have had thechance to work with him.
And he's been a very, veryimportant mentor for me,
learning how.
The ropes of editing a journal.
And then he was also a reallybig, um, encourager behind me
saying, yes, you should applyfor the J O S P T job when that
job came up.
So that's kind of the backstoryactually.
It's a lot of sort of behind thescenes, learning how journals
(02:21):
work and, and getting to knowthe ropes.
Mike (02:24):
Yeah.
I mean you have to have someexperience with that.
And I will say, I mean, veryobvious.
I think a lot of people wereexcited when you joined J S V T
because we, we saw how BJ s mreally.
Really improved over the yearsand became such a valuable
journal that I think we all lovereading now.
Not as much as J R S B T, ofcourse, but, uh, but but, but,
(02:45):
um, but I think we saw that.
So it's, it, it was really niceto see you, uh, come over from
bj, s m You guys did a great jobover there too.
Clare (02:52):
Thanks, Mike.
And like all of these things,the cliche is to say it's a team
effort and, you know, the, thechampion team.
What's the, what's the cliche?
It's a team of champions, not ach No, uh, it's a champion team,
not a team of champions.
was very much a, a champion teamat.
At bjsm and now at J O S P T.
And I think that's one of thethings I've learned over the
(03:13):
years is that like, like all ofthe folks listening today, you
all know this from working insports, whether it's working in
a team environment in sports,whether it's working in within
your team in the clinic, thatit's, it's all about working
together, learning from eachother, and you're better
together.
We're stronger together than weare individually.
So that's very much my sort ofdefault mode for J O S P T.
(03:34):
And what I brought with me fromBJ SM is that having the right
people in the.
Spots within the journal iscrucial to making everything.
Mike (03:42):
That's amazing.
And you can see it, you can seethe success.
And, uh, there's, there's somuch that I think JR.
S p t has grown over the yearsand it continues to keep
growing.
Um, what do you think some ofyour, your favorite or bigger
accomplishments that you guyshave made at.
S b t, um, since you've takenover, like what are some of the
things that you're most proudof?
Clare (04:02):
I think the most visible thing, that's not the journal
itself.
So I think let's, let's park thejournal and the research and
the, the product that peopleknow and love and have done for
the last 40 odd years that Js.
PTs been in, in existence.
The second most visible thing,perhaps behind the journal is
the podcast, j O s P T Insights.
And you've been a guest on thepodcast now Twice.
(04:23):
Thank you.
Um, and I'm really proud of the,of, we, we got a lot of feedback
from the community that peoplewanted a podcast they wanted.
They wanted a different way ofconsuming research and consuming
information, and I'm reallyproud of the work that we've put
into the podcast.
I, I constantly get feedbackfrom people saying that they
like listening to it, thatthey've used it in their
classes, which is really kind ofgratifying and it's, it's a, a
(04:47):
privilege.
Every week we get to chat withinteresting people about
different research that they'vedone or talking about how
they've applied research intheir clinical practice.
So we're unashamedly focused onhelping clinicians.
You know, folks listening to ustoday out there in day-to-day
clinical practice, figure outhow is it that I take the stuff
that's written on the journalpage or printed on the journal
(05:08):
page and, and actually implementit in my day-to-day practice.
Mike (05:12):
Which is pretty cool.
And I think if you listen tothis podcast, you, you probably
listen to the Js p D Insidepodcast.
If you don't, you need to.
That's very, really important.
But, um,
Clare (05:21):
There's a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram.
Mike (05:24):
I, I, I would, I would imagine, um, y you know, I, I, I
think people sometimes don'tunderstand how much effort it
takes.
So kudos to you for doing that.
There's a lot of work.
Even just getting two people'sschedules together are very
challenging.
Although you and I nailed itthis week, by the way, we just
happened to stumble across atime slot.
(05:44):
But um, uh,
Clare (05:46):
I think that's the lot of podcast hosts, right?
We're both POD podcast hosts, soit's like you just make yourself
available.
So I'm available.
I need half an hour, that's allI've got.
That's fine.
Mike (05:57):
I, you know, I, I always tell everybody too, when I
started my website, which wasabout 15 years ago now, I 100%
did it for me, and I'm stilldoing this for me.
This is, I'm growing.
Each time I get to sit down andtalk to you, I'm growing.
So much more knowledgeablemyself.
And if people get to enjoy itwith me because we record it and
share it with them, great.
(06:18):
But like me writing an articleor me doing a podcast there, it,
it's a learning experience forme, and it's been so rewarding
to be able to just connect withpeople like yourself and to just
chit chat like this.
I mean, you know, you're, youknow, we said this a little bit
before we started recording, butbelieve it or not, guys,
Claire's a real person, right?
She's, she's a real human.
She's pretty cool in real life,by the way.
I mean, you know, but like, youknow, as the editor-in-chief of
(06:40):
J S B T, sometimes you just seeyour name behind a wall and you
don't realize that she's apretty smart person that has a
lot to share too.
So, uh, but again, thank you,thank you for, for, for doing
the podcast and all you do,because it is so rewarding to
listen to it.
Clare (06:53):
Thanks, Mike, and I think it would be remiss of me if I
didn't also mention a couple ofother of the things that I'm
really proud of that we're doingright now at.
S p t one is that we've justlaunched a brand new journal
called J O S P T Open, and I'dencourage folks to, um, have a
look at the journal we'velaunched.
There's an editorial in theMarch issue of J O S P T
explaining what the newjournal's about, what sort of
(07:15):
content, when it's gonna comeonline, where we're, um, taking
submissions for that journalright now.
So I would encourage folks whohave got some interesting
research that they're thinkingof, of submitting to a journal
to really consider J O S P Topen.
The J S P T cases is, um, thethird journal that J O S P T
publishes, which is, it's sortof the name gives it the clues
(07:36):
in the title cases.
It's all about case reports.
So please have a look at cases,um, the.
Professor Chris Hughes is theeditor of J O S P T cases, and
Chris does a wonderful job atbringing together the case and
the learning points from thecase.
So again, it's all about how dowe take the learning points from
that clinical case and put itinto our practice.
(07:58):
And I guess the other, the otherinteresting thing is the J O s
PT blog, which is a great opensource.
It's kind of the town square forpeople to come in and share
ideas.
So I would encourage folkslistening to us today, if you've
got ideas, and I know you alldo.
Think about writing them downand think about sending an 800
word blog post into the J S P Tblog and, and starting that
(08:20):
conversation, cuz chances are,if you've been thinking about
something, someone else in thecommunity's also thinking about
it and would love the chance todiscuss those ideas with you.
Mike (08:28):
That's a great way of saying it.
And so welcoming too.
And what, what I really like tosee, what I'm seeing you guys
build here behind the scenes atJ S P T is there's a lot of
different avenues for people toget involved now.
Right.
You don't need to just work atlike an epic clinical research
center.
Right.
Which, which is challenging fora lot of people.
Um, you can write some casestudies, you can get those in J
(08:50):
S P T cases.
The, the J S P T open just opensup so much more, uh, avenues for
more research to get published.
Um, that I, I just, I, I thinkit's gonna be so helpful.
But more importantly, right, andthis is going a little bit off
of what we said we were gonnatalk about Claire, but like
there's so many bad journalsnowadays and there's so many
predatory journals out thereout, you know, knowing that J O
(09:12):
SB T is gonna stand behind thisand you and your editorial team
are gonna make sure that thesepapers are quality, that means a
lot to us.
Right.
So, you know, we appreciatethat.
Clare (09:22):
No thank you.
It's really important and I'mglad that you talk about
predatory journals because theyare just growing and growing and
growing and anyone who's beenaffiliated with a, with a
research institution willprobably get the tons and tons
of emails from these predatoryjournals saying, send me your
paper on whatever random topic.
So folks will, will certainlyhave known about predatory
(09:43):
journals and definitely J S P TOpen and J S P T cases.
All have the same high level of,of peer review and editorial
oversight as J O S P T, the J OS P T, that listeners know and
loves.
So we are really committed tomaking sure that whatever is
published in J O S P T,whichever journal it is, is
really high quality.
Mike (10:03):
That's, that's awesome.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout.
As editor-in-chief cuz I, Idon't think a lot of people
understand exactly how much workyou do and, and what you do in
it.
And I'd love to even hear alittle bit about J S P T behind
the scenes a little bit.
Like how many submissions do youguys get on average?
What's your acceptance ratelike?
What's the process like forthese submissions?
I think people that are new tothis process, um, would really
(10:25):
love to hear that comingstraight from the
editor-in-chief.
I think that'd be,
Clare (10:29):
Sure.
Well, let me start with thesubmissions.
We get about a thousandsubmissions, manuscript
submissions per year, and we canonly publish between seven and
9% of them.
So, so if, if you are therethinking, I got a reject letter
from the editor, she's ahorrible person.
Um, my sympathies, I'm aresearcher and, and as a
(10:52):
researcher I understand that,you know, getting rejected is a
common thing and it, it's, weall take it personally.
So I do really understand.
and we as an editorial team takethose decisions really
seriously.
So we, we, we are really sort offocused on making J O S P T the
best experience for you as anauthor, certainly as someone
who's submitting your work tothe journal.
(11:13):
And we will try to work hard tothink of other options and, and
potentially make suggestions foryou that if, if we don't think
that this is a paper that.
Can public can can live in J O SP T.
It's not because it's badresearch.
I think that's the one, the onekey message.
If you take one thing away fromthis bit of the chat, please, as
a researcher, particularly as anearly career researcher, please,
(11:37):
uh, persist with your work.
It can feel really horrible whenyou get the reject letter from
the journal.
It's, it's.
Not because your research isbad, it's because all journals
have their particular niche thatthey've carved out, and they've,
they're all dealing with manymore submissions than they have
space to publish.
And we all, as an editorial teamand our underscore team here,
because at J O S P T, it's ateam making the decision.
(12:00):
It's not one person.
You know, with the, the keys tothe decision making apparatus,
there's, there's multiple peoplewho are looking at a paper who.
Discussing the paper anddiscussing the merits and where
it fits and, and in the prioritylist of papers, right?
Because, because we have so manysubmissions, we do have to make
priorities.
We're unashamedly prioritizingwork that has immediate clinical
(12:23):
impact.
So if some, if you're thinkingabout submitting your work to J
O S P T, the inside kind of bitof.
Information, I guess, is thatwhen we as a senior editorial
team, and there's five of us inthat senior team, when we are
considering papers, we're askingthree really important
questions.
Number one, is it making anadvance to the field?
(12:43):
So is it the sort of heuristicis, is it new?
Which sometimes I think can meanis it the first time that
someone's ever thought aboutstudying this before?
That's not always the case, butreally, is it making an advance
on what we.
Is it true?
So is, are the, the researchmethods robust?
Are the, are you as a researcherchoosing the right type of
(13:06):
research for your researchquestions?
So if you're studying somethingabout a treatment, have you
chosen to, to use a randomizedcontrol trial, for example?
And then the third bit is, is itgonna change the decisions?
Clinicians and athletes orpatients make in the prac, in
clinic, in practice tomorrow.
So we're really focused onimmediate impact on clinical
(13:28):
practice.
And so if you can think aboutthose three questions and your
you, you feel comfortable andconfident that your research is
meeting those three questions,then please send it to Joe s p
t.
We'd love to have a look.
Mike (13:42):
And, and if you, if you, if you haven't yet rewind the
last 30 seconds, 60 seconds herebecause uh, she just gave you
the blueprint, right?
She just told you Exactly.
You can't get a better sourcetoo, and, and don't feel bad
that over 90% of papers, nineout of 10 papers are gonna get
rejected.
And I've had papers rejected.
Too.
I mean, it all, it happens.
I've disagreed with the commentsat the time, don't get me wrong,
(14:06):
but we, we've all had papersrejected just because there's,
there's just so much qualitystuff out there.
So, you know, keep it going.
I, I think that's the best wayto do it.
Um, on that note, I think youjust gave us a bit of the
blueprint, but I'm gonna flip ita little bit here.
what are some of the things thatyou commonly see or you know,
like what are the things thatyou see that sometimes maybe
drive you crazier?
What's your, the thing that youroll your eyes at the most when
(14:28):
you say like, oh gosh, like,like how do you help an author
increase their chances ofgetting and accepted by avoiding
doing something?
What is it that you're seeingtoo much of?
Clare (14:39):
I think the thing that frustrates me the most as a
clinician and as a researcher isreading something, particularly
a systematic review, and youprobably listeners will know
where this is going or have aninkling of where I'm going with
this.
You read the systematic reviewand the conclusion is we need
more research.
That's sort of the headlinething and why.
(14:59):
and I'm a, a researcher who kindof specializes in synthesis in
systematic reviews,meta-analysis, clinical practice
guidelines, all of this kind of,you know, trying to, trying to
bring research together to tryto make sense of it.
But it really bugs me inclinical research when you
think, well, if all that you cansay is we need more research in
a clinical journal, that'sprobably not a great.
(15:21):
A great conclusion.
So I'm not suggesting you clchange your conclusion.
That's spin and that alsofrustrates me and bugs me as a,
as a, an editor as well, don't,don't make something out of
nothing.
But if your conclusion is, Hey,we actually have nothing in this
field, then perhaps the field isnot well developed enough for a
systematic review.
Or it's a journal that's muchmore focused on research methods
(15:45):
or.
Something else about this field.
It's not necessarily somethingthat's gonna resonate with the
clinical audience.
So I, I hope, and I'm prettyconfident that if you're reading
systematic reviews, at leastpublished in J O S P T, you
shouldn't find a headlineconclusion that is simply, we
need more research because Iwill really push back on that
(16:06):
sort of stuff.
I'm really, really committed tohaving something.
Strong, robust research that ismeaningful, that's answering or
trying to answer a, an importantclinical question.
Mike (16:17):
Right.
And, and if you're doing thosesystematic reviews, then I would
challenge you too, just as, asfrom my perspective, is maybe
you need to narrow that down alittle bit more, right?
Because social media right nowwill take that and celebrate
that as, oh, there's no evidencethat this works.
Right?
And I've literally seen papers,Claire, of course not in J H P
T, but elsewhere where it's, youknow, does this manual therapy
(16:38):
technique work for shoulder painin people aged 18 to 75?
And you're
Clare (16:43):
With a cherry on their head or
Mike (16:44):
it.
Unbelievable.
And then you'll have people onsocial media say, well see, this
doesn't work.
Well.
It's not that it doesn't work.
It's just so broad.
And we're starting to see nowsystematic reviews of systematic
reviews.
Um, have we seen the firstsystematic review of systematic
review of systematic reviews?
Has that been published yet?
Clare (17:03):
I have seen them occasionally in the literature,
but not in J O S P T I think theother point that I'd make, Mike,
is that it is really importantresearch builds on itself,
right?
So I'm not, I, I, I really hopethat people are not taking the
message away that I'm saying.
You can't make comments aboutfuture research.
Absolutely welcome thosecomments about fu future
research.
That's really important andthat's part of the reason why.
(17:25):
Why we do a systematic reviewand some of the conclusions that
you draw.
But I think my, my point here isthat if that's the sole
conclusion, then I would thinkreally hard about whether J O S
P T is the right place for yoursystematic review.
And again, it's likely that it'sa very, very good systematic
review.
You've used strong methods,you've done a really good job.
(17:46):
The, the issue is about findingthe right journal to reach the
audience to whom you are trying,you're intending this systematic
review so, I hope I've done areasonable job at outlining who
the J O S P T audience is, andthat we're very much focused on
the clinician reader,
Mike (18:03):
And as an audience of J S P, I'm there.
I agree with you.
And those are the types ofarticles that we really
appreciate that we gain from.
And we always teach ourstudents, as we say, like, um,
and what am I gonna do differenttomorrow based on this article?
And, and that's the mostimpactful one.
And there's a lot of times thatan article doesn't.
Change anything we do, andthat's okay too.
(18:23):
But it's, it's, it's, it's aninteresting approach when you
think of it that way.
So I applaud you for doing that.
So, um, amazing stuff.
Before I let you go, Claire, Ilike to end with what I call the
high five.
It's kind of cheesy.
I need a better name, but it'sbeen a year now and I haven't
found a better name.
But, um, five quick questions.
Five quick answers to just getto know you a little bit more on
(18:43):
how your brain works, but one.
What are you currently workingon for your own Con Ed?
What are you doing for yourprofessional development
Clare (18:52):
Well, I'm hoping you'll allow me to share something that
I just finished at the end oflast year.
We're early, still, early-ish in2023, so in at the very end of
2022, and actually thecertificate just arrived a few
days ago.
So I'm hoping that counts.
Mike
Mike (19:07):
I
Clare (19:07):
I finished, I finished an online course through Oxford
University on women'sleadership, and it was the best
six weeks of my life really.
It was amazing.
I learned so much about thingslike how to negotiate, how to
effectively mentor people.
What's the difference betweenmentoring and coaching?
It taught me.
About it gave me some languagearound leadership and my
(19:28):
leadership style and otherstyles that I'd seen others use
and what might work well in acertain scenario, and how to
dial things up and dial thingsdown, and how to develop skills
in mentoring and coaching.
So it was phenomenal and I wouldreally commend that course to
any of the women listening to ustoday.
Mike (19:46):
I love it.
I love it.
And as a father of two girls, Ican't wait for them to take that
course.
That'd be amazing.
So, um, daughters are awesome.
So um, um, what is one thingthat you've recently changed
your mind about?
Clare (19:59):
Um, I used.
I was so committed and so proudof my, I never thought I would
relinquish my badge of honor asan all weather cyclist.
I would ride outside in therain, in the snow, in the hail,
in the sunshine, in the 40, uh,40 degrees Celsius.
Whatever that converts to over ahundred decrees Fahrenheit, I
(20:21):
would do it.
And I was so proud of my badgeof honor, but I have recently
set my bike up inside on anindoor trainer and become
completely hooked on Swift, andI love it.
Mike (20:33):
That's actually interesting.
Is that your thing or are you abig cyclist?
Clare (20:37):
I am since, since my knee injury got to the point where I
couldn't run anymore, and thatwas really difficult and
devastating as, as many folkscan understand.
But cycling has, enswparticularly has been a a, a
savior for sure.
Mike (20:52):
Very neat.
Very neat.
That was a great answer.
I like that one.
Um, what's your favorite pieceof advice that you love to give
young profess?
Clare (20:59):
I like to let people know to take comfort that their
career will progress and that itwill grow, and I think it's
often.
Certainly when I first startedout my career, I would look to
mentors and people who weregiants in the field and think,
oh my goodness, I'm never gonnaget there.
I'm always gonna feel like I'mstuck at this beginning
(21:20):
position.
Like, I dunno anything.
And I guess it's a bit of thatimposter syndrome.
So I would like people to takeheart that your career does.
Evolve and grow and develop.
And I'm not saying that thatdoesn't happen with a bit of
luck, and we certainly don't,unfortunately, live in a
meritocracy.
And some of us have moreopportunities than others by din
(21:40):
where we've grown up or, or thecolor of our skin or our gender.
Um, so I'm not, not.
Um, discounting all of thosethings, but I think it is really
important to remember that yourcareer will grow and that when,
when you're starting out, it'snormal to feel that sense of, am
I really accepted here?
Do I really have the skills andthe expertise to belong here?
(22:02):
And to be honest, I still feellike that when sometimes when I
walk into a certain places.
I don't know that that evercompletely disappears, but I
hope that people can learn totrust their, that their
knowledge and their skills and,and what they're bringing to the
table is valued and important.
Mike (22:19):
That's amazing.
Great one too.
Um, what's coming up next foryou and or J A S P T, but you in
particular too?
Clare (22:27):
We are expanding the J S V T editorial board from 35
people to, I'm not gonna say howmany exactly, but we're
expanding
Mike (22:36):
That's
Clare (22:37):
and I'm really, really looking forward to getting to
know the new members and gettingto work with them.
We've got our big board meetingcoming up next month and it's
always, um, just such a joy toconnect with the editorial
board, learn about the newthings that are happening in
their.
Fields and for all, all of us towork together to do our own.
It's our own professionaldevelopment as an editorial
(22:59):
board and we take that reallyseriously.
So, so that's what I'm lookingforward to on a personal level,
just because it's such aprivilege to connect with all of
these different people from allaround the world, from different
backgrounds and on aprofessional and A S P T level
two.
Mike (23:13):
That's so cool.
I love it.
Um, well how can we learn moreabout you?
Obviously it's js pt.org ifyou're interested in js, PT and
all the great resources.
But what about yourself too?
Do you have any social medias oranywhere that you'd like to
share so people can learn moreabout you and Js P T?
Clare (23:30):
I am on Twitter, Claire underscore ar on Twitter.
I don't.
I've actually deliberately made.
The pull back from Twitter, preElon Musk, pre all the
craziness.
Um, partly, partly because as awoman, and I wanna acknowledge
this for your audience as well,it is, it can feel quite
difficult as, particularly as awoman, and I know many people
(23:52):
have some horrible experienceson social media, so that was a
conscious decision.
I do tweet their occasionallyand certainly I tweet, it's,
it's research tweets, it's notpersonal stuff, so people can
follow me on Twitter.
I have a research gate page foranybody who's looking for my
research papers, or not thepapers, but the records as
things are published.
(24:12):
And PubMed is the same.
So anybody who's the kind ofresearcher, geek listening out
there will know all of thoseresources.
Mike (24:21):
That's great.
Clare (24:21):
And of course, if you wanna, if you, if you like
listening to an Aussie accent,you can listen to me on the O S
P T.
Mike (24:27):
That's the only reason why I listen, to be honest with you.
And it has nothing to do withthe guests, but yes, I agree.
It's a, it's, it's, it's anadded perk, which is, which is
great.
But, um, and I, I completelyagree.
I just said the other day tosomebody at work that you're
either a bully or gettingbullied on Twitter, it's one of
the two.
It's like, oh, there is.
So it's a, it's just turned intosuch a, such an interesting
place.
So, uh, I'm definitely on there,less and less, unfortunately,
(24:50):
but that's why I get to.
Spending time with people likeyourself in person, sort of
through this podcast, throughthis video, we get to see each
other and talk.
And, um, again, I am soappreciative of you taking out
time to do this and to give backto, uh, the audience.
I think we've all learned a lot.
So thanks again, Claire.
Clare (25:09):
Thanks, Mike.
It's a pleasure to chat with youand to chat with the listeners
today.
On this episode of the sportsphysical therapy podcast.
I am joined by Claire, our DernClaire's the editor in chief of
P T or the journal of orthopedicand sports, physical therapy.
In this episode, she's going toshare some exciting new things
that JSP.
Has been working on that.
I know you're going to love,plus, we're going to take a peek
behind the scenes of theeditorial process of the
journal.
(00:20):
Talk about her role as editor inchief, and she's even going to
share some valuable advice forprospective authors on how to
write the best manuscripts toincrease your chances of
publication.
Mike (00:42):
Hey, Claire, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for joining.
Clare (00:46):
Thanks, Mike.
It's a pleasure to join you andhave the chance to chat with
your listeners today.
Mike (00:50):
thank you so much for, for, for being here.
Um, I mean, editor-in-chief of JS P T, that's, that's a big job.
Uh, why don't we start with,with, with a little bit about
your path.
How did you, how do, how doesone become the editor in chief
of J S P T?
I mean, it's such a, uh, awell-known and prestigious
journal.
Um, I mean that, that, that's areally impressive position for
(01:13):
you to be in.
Tell us a little bit about howyou.
Clare (01:16):
Thanks, Mike.
It's definitely a privilege tohave this role, and it's a
privilege because I.
So many fantastic people throughthis job, and I get to see the
cutting edge of research.
I think my career got a bit fasttracked to editor-in-chief
because I met a wonderful friendand mentor, professor Kaka, who
many folks will know from his BJs m editor-in-chief days, and I
(01:38):
had the really good fortune ofworking with Caram on.
On Bjsm for a number of yearsbetween 2015 and 2018.
So I got to know the insideworkings of a journal.
And one of Carre's superpowersis that he's such a champion for
young clinicians, youngresearchers, and particularly
women.
So I feel very fortunate to havemade that connection with him
(02:01):
who have had to have had thechance to work with him.
And he's been a very, veryimportant mentor for me,
learning how.
The ropes of editing a journal.
And then he was also a reallybig, um, encourager behind me
saying, yes, you should applyfor the J O S P T job when that
job came up.
So that's kind of the backstoryactually.
It's a lot of sort of behind thescenes, learning how journals
(02:21):
work and, and getting to knowthe ropes.
Mike (02:24):
Yeah.
I mean you have to have someexperience with that.
And I will say, I mean, veryobvious.
I think a lot of people wereexcited when you joined J S V T
because we, we saw how BJ s mreally.
Really improved over the yearsand became such a valuable
journal that I think we all lovereading now.
Not as much as J R S B T, ofcourse, but, uh, but but, but,
(02:45):
um, but I think we saw that.
So it's, it, it was really niceto see you, uh, come over from
bj, s m You guys did a great jobover there too.
Clare (02:52):
Thanks, Mike.
And like all of these things,the cliche is to say it's a team
effort and, you know, the, thechampion team.
What's the, what's the cliche?
It's a team of champions, not ach No, uh, it's a champion team,
not a team of champions.
was very much a, a champion teamat.
At bjsm and now at J O S P T.
And I think that's one of thethings I've learned over the
(03:13):
years is that like, like all ofthe folks listening today, you
all know this from working insports, whether it's working in
a team environment in sports,whether it's working in within
your team in the clinic, thatit's, it's all about working
together, learning from eachother, and you're better
together.
We're stronger together than weare individually.
So that's very much my sort ofdefault mode for J O S P T.
(03:34):
And what I brought with me fromBJ SM is that having the right
people in the.
Spots within the journal iscrucial to making everything.
Mike (03:42):
That's amazing.
And you can see it, you can seethe success.
And, uh, there's, there's somuch that I think JR.
S p t has grown over the yearsand it continues to keep
growing.
Um, what do you think some ofyour, your favorite or bigger
accomplishments that you guyshave made at.
S b t, um, since you've takenover, like what are some of the
things that you're most proudof?
Clare (04:02):
I think the most visible thing, that's not the journal
itself.
So I think let's, let's park thejournal and the research and
the, the product that peopleknow and love and have done for
the last 40 odd years that Js.
PTs been in, in existence.
The second most visible thing,perhaps behind the journal is
the podcast, j O s P T Insights.
And you've been a guest on thepodcast now Twice.
(04:23):
Thank you.
Um, and I'm really proud of the,of, we, we got a lot of feedback
from the community that peoplewanted a podcast they wanted.
They wanted a different way ofconsuming research and consuming
information, and I'm reallyproud of the work that we've put
into the podcast.
I, I constantly get feedbackfrom people saying that they
like listening to it, thatthey've used it in their
classes, which is really kind ofgratifying and it's, it's a, a
(04:47):
privilege.
Every week we get to chat withinteresting people about
different research that they'vedone or talking about how
they've applied research intheir clinical practice.
So we're unashamedly focused onhelping clinicians.
You know, folks listening to ustoday out there in day-to-day
clinical practice, figure outhow is it that I take the stuff
that's written on the journalpage or printed on the journal
(05:08):
page and, and actually implementit in my day-to-day practice.
Mike (05:12):
Which is pretty cool.
And I think if you listen tothis podcast, you, you probably
listen to the Js p D Insidepodcast.
If you don't, you need to.
That's very, really important.
But, um,
Clare (05:21):
There's a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram.
Mike (05:24):
I, I, I would, I would imagine, um, y you know, I, I, I
think people sometimes don'tunderstand how much effort it
takes.
So kudos to you for doing that.
There's a lot of work.
Even just getting two people'sschedules together are very
challenging.
Although you and I nailed itthis week, by the way, we just
happened to stumble across atime slot.
(05:44):
But um, uh,
Clare (05:46):
I think that's the lot of podcast hosts, right?
We're both POD podcast hosts, soit's like you just make yourself
available.
So I'm available.
I need half an hour, that's allI've got.
That's fine.
Mike (05:57):
I, you know, I, I always tell everybody too, when I
started my website, which wasabout 15 years ago now, I 100%
did it for me, and I'm stilldoing this for me.
This is, I'm growing.
Each time I get to sit down andtalk to you, I'm growing.
So much more knowledgeablemyself.
And if people get to enjoy itwith me because we record it and
share it with them, great.
(06:18):
But like me writing an articleor me doing a podcast there, it,
it's a learning experience forme, and it's been so rewarding
to be able to just connect withpeople like yourself and to just
chit chat like this.
I mean, you know, you're, youknow, we said this a little bit
before we started recording, butbelieve it or not, guys,
Claire's a real person, right?
She's, she's a real human.
She's pretty cool in real life,by the way.
I mean, you know, but like, youknow, as the editor-in-chief of
(06:40):
J S B T, sometimes you just seeyour name behind a wall and you
don't realize that she's apretty smart person that has a
lot to share too.
So, uh, but again, thank you,thank you for, for, for doing
the podcast and all you do,because it is so rewarding to
listen to it.
Clare (06:53):
Thanks, Mike, and I think it would be remiss of me if I
didn't also mention a couple ofother of the things that I'm
really proud of that we're doingright now at.
S p t one is that we've justlaunched a brand new journal
called J O S P T Open, and I'dencourage folks to, um, have a
look at the journal we'velaunched.
There's an editorial in theMarch issue of J O S P T
explaining what the newjournal's about, what sort of
(07:15):
content, when it's gonna comeonline, where we're, um, taking
submissions for that journalright now.
So I would encourage folks whohave got some interesting
research that they're thinkingof, of submitting to a journal
to really consider J O S P Topen.
The J S P T cases is, um, thethird journal that J O S P T
publishes, which is, it's sortof the name gives it the clues
(07:36):
in the title cases.
It's all about case reports.
So please have a look at cases,um, the.
Professor Chris Hughes is theeditor of J O S P T cases, and
Chris does a wonderful job atbringing together the case and
the learning points from thecase.
So again, it's all about how dowe take the learning points from
that clinical case and put itinto our practice.
(07:58):
And I guess the other, the otherinteresting thing is the J O s
PT blog, which is a great opensource.
It's kind of the town square forpeople to come in and share
ideas.
So I would encourage folkslistening to us today, if you've
got ideas, and I know you alldo.
Think about writing them downand think about sending an 800
word blog post into the J S P Tblog and, and starting that
(08:20):
conversation, cuz chances are,if you've been thinking about
something, someone else in thecommunity's also thinking about
it and would love the chance todiscuss those ideas with you.
Mike (08:28):
That's a great way of saying it.
And so welcoming too.
And what, what I really like tosee, what I'm seeing you guys
build here behind the scenes atJ S P T is there's a lot of
different avenues for people toget involved now.
Right.
You don't need to just work atlike an epic clinical research
center.
Right.
Which, which is challenging fora lot of people.
Um, you can write some casestudies, you can get those in J
(08:50):
S P T cases.
The, the J S P T open just opensup so much more, uh, avenues for
more research to get published.
Um, that I, I just, I, I thinkit's gonna be so helpful.
But more importantly, right, andthis is going a little bit off
of what we said we were gonnatalk about Claire, but like
there's so many bad journalsnowadays and there's so many
predatory journals out thereout, you know, knowing that J O
(09:12):
SB T is gonna stand behind thisand you and your editorial team
are gonna make sure that thesepapers are quality, that means a
lot to us.
Right.
So, you know, we appreciatethat.
Clare (09:22):
No thank you.
It's really important and I'mglad that you talk about
predatory journals because theyare just growing and growing and
growing and anyone who's beenaffiliated with a, with a
research institution willprobably get the tons and tons
of emails from these predatoryjournals saying, send me your
paper on whatever random topic.
So folks will, will certainlyhave known about predatory
(09:43):
journals and definitely J S P TOpen and J S P T cases.
All have the same high level of,of peer review and editorial
oversight as J O S P T, the J OS P T, that listeners know and
loves.
So we are really committed tomaking sure that whatever is
published in J O S P T,whichever journal it is, is
really high quality.
Mike (10:03):
That's, that's awesome.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout.
As editor-in-chief cuz I, Idon't think a lot of people
understand exactly how much workyou do and, and what you do in
it.
And I'd love to even hear alittle bit about J S P T behind
the scenes a little bit.
Like how many submissions do youguys get on average?
What's your acceptance ratelike?
What's the process like forthese submissions?
I think people that are new tothis process, um, would really
(10:25):
love to hear that comingstraight from the
editor-in-chief.
I think that'd be,
Clare (10:29):
Sure.
Well, let me start with thesubmissions.
We get about a thousandsubmissions, manuscript
submissions per year, and we canonly publish between seven and
9% of them.
So, so if, if you are therethinking, I got a reject letter
from the editor, she's ahorrible person.
Um, my sympathies, I'm aresearcher and, and as a
(10:52):
researcher I understand that,you know, getting rejected is a
common thing and it, it's, weall take it personally.
So I do really understand.
and we as an editorial team takethose decisions really
seriously.
So we, we, we are really sort offocused on making J O S P T the
best experience for you as anauthor, certainly as someone
who's submitting your work tothe journal.
(11:13):
And we will try to work hard tothink of other options and, and
potentially make suggestions foryou that if, if we don't think
that this is a paper that.
Can public can can live in J O SP T.
It's not because it's badresearch.
I think that's the one, the onekey message.
If you take one thing away fromthis bit of the chat, please, as
a researcher, particularly as anearly career researcher, please,
(11:37):
uh, persist with your work.
It can feel really horrible whenyou get the reject letter from
the journal.
It's, it's.
Not because your research isbad, it's because all journals
have their particular niche thatthey've carved out, and they've,
they're all dealing with manymore submissions than they have
space to publish.
And we all, as an editorial teamand our underscore team here,
because at J O S P T, it's ateam making the decision.
(12:00):
It's not one person.
You know, with the, the keys tothe decision making apparatus,
there's, there's multiple peoplewho are looking at a paper who.
Discussing the paper anddiscussing the merits and where
it fits and, and in the prioritylist of papers, right?
Because, because we have so manysubmissions, we do have to make
priorities.
We're unashamedly prioritizingwork that has immediate clinical
(12:23):
impact.
So if some, if you're thinkingabout submitting your work to J
O S P T, the inside kind of bitof.
Information, I guess, is thatwhen we as a senior editorial
team, and there's five of us inthat senior team, when we are
considering papers, we're askingthree really important
questions.
Number one, is it making anadvance to the field?
(12:43):
So is it the sort of heuristicis, is it new?
Which sometimes I think can meanis it the first time that
someone's ever thought aboutstudying this before?
That's not always the case, butreally, is it making an advance
on what we.
Is it true?
So is, are the, the researchmethods robust?
Are the, are you as a researcherchoosing the right type of
(13:06):
research for your researchquestions?
So if you're studying somethingabout a treatment, have you
chosen to, to use a randomizedcontrol trial, for example?
And then the third bit is, is itgonna change the decisions?
Clinicians and athletes orpatients make in the prac, in
clinic, in practice tomorrow.
So we're really focused onimmediate impact on clinical
(13:28):
practice.
And so if you can think aboutthose three questions and your
you, you feel comfortable andconfident that your research is
meeting those three questions,then please send it to Joe s p
t.
We'd love to have a look.
Mike (13:42):
And, and if you, if you, if you haven't yet rewind the
last 30 seconds, 60 seconds herebecause uh, she just gave you
the blueprint, right?
She just told you Exactly.
You can't get a better sourcetoo, and, and don't feel bad
that over 90% of papers, nineout of 10 papers are gonna get
rejected.
And I've had papers rejected.
Too.
I mean, it all, it happens.
I've disagreed with the commentsat the time, don't get me wrong,
(14:06):
but we, we've all had papersrejected just because there's,
there's just so much qualitystuff out there.
So, you know, keep it going.
I, I think that's the best wayto do it.
Um, on that note, I think youjust gave us a bit of the
blueprint, but I'm gonna flip ita little bit here.
what are some of the things thatyou commonly see or you know,
like what are the things thatyou see that sometimes maybe
drive you crazier?
What's your, the thing that youroll your eyes at the most when
(14:28):
you say like, oh gosh, like,like how do you help an author
increase their chances ofgetting and accepted by avoiding
doing something?
What is it that you're seeingtoo much of?
Clare (14:39):
I think the thing that frustrates me the most as a
clinician and as a researcher isreading something, particularly
a systematic review, and youprobably listeners will know
where this is going or have aninkling of where I'm going with
this.
You read the systematic reviewand the conclusion is we need
more research.
That's sort of the headlinething and why.
(14:59):
and I'm a, a researcher who kindof specializes in synthesis in
systematic reviews,meta-analysis, clinical practice
guidelines, all of this kind of,you know, trying to, trying to
bring research together to tryto make sense of it.
But it really bugs me inclinical research when you
think, well, if all that you cansay is we need more research in
a clinical journal, that'sprobably not a great.
(15:21):
A great conclusion.
So I'm not suggesting you clchange your conclusion.
That's spin and that alsofrustrates me and bugs me as a,
as a, an editor as well, don't,don't make something out of
nothing.
But if your conclusion is, Hey,we actually have nothing in this
field, then perhaps the field isnot well developed enough for a
systematic review.
Or it's a journal that's muchmore focused on research methods
(15:45):
or.
Something else about this field.
It's not necessarily somethingthat's gonna resonate with the
clinical audience.
So I, I hope, and I'm prettyconfident that if you're reading
systematic reviews, at leastpublished in J O S P T, you
shouldn't find a headlineconclusion that is simply, we
need more research because Iwill really push back on that
(16:06):
sort of stuff.
I'm really, really committed tohaving something.
Strong, robust research that ismeaningful, that's answering or
trying to answer a, an importantclinical question.
Mike (16:17):
Right.
And, and if you're doing thosesystematic reviews, then I would
challenge you too, just as, asfrom my perspective, is maybe
you need to narrow that down alittle bit more, right?
Because social media right nowwill take that and celebrate
that as, oh, there's no evidencethat this works.
Right?
And I've literally seen papers,Claire, of course not in J H P
T, but elsewhere where it's, youknow, does this manual therapy
(16:38):
technique work for shoulder painin people aged 18 to 75?
And you're
Clare (16:43):
With a cherry on their head or
Mike (16:44):
it.
Unbelievable.
And then you'll have people onsocial media say, well see, this
doesn't work.
Well.
It's not that it doesn't work.
It's just so broad.
And we're starting to see nowsystematic reviews of systematic
reviews.
Um, have we seen the firstsystematic review of systematic
review of systematic reviews?
Has that been published yet?
Clare (17:03):
I have seen them occasionally in the literature,
but not in J O S P T I think theother point that I'd make, Mike,
is that it is really importantresearch builds on itself,
right?
So I'm not, I, I, I really hopethat people are not taking the
message away that I'm saying.
You can't make comments aboutfuture research.
Absolutely welcome thosecomments about fu future
research.
That's really important andthat's part of the reason why.
(17:25):
Why we do a systematic reviewand some of the conclusions that
you draw.
But I think my, my point here isthat if that's the sole
conclusion, then I would thinkreally hard about whether J O S
P T is the right place for yoursystematic review.
And again, it's likely that it'sa very, very good systematic
review.
You've used strong methods,you've done a really good job.
(17:46):
The, the issue is about findingthe right journal to reach the
audience to whom you are trying,you're intending this systematic
review so, I hope I've done areasonable job at outlining who
the J O S P T audience is, andthat we're very much focused on
the clinician reader,
Mike (18:03):
And as an audience of J S P, I'm there.
I agree with you.
And those are the types ofarticles that we really
appreciate that we gain from.
And we always teach ourstudents, as we say, like, um,
and what am I gonna do differenttomorrow based on this article?
And, and that's the mostimpactful one.
And there's a lot of times thatan article doesn't.
Change anything we do, andthat's okay too.
(18:23):
But it's, it's, it's, it's aninteresting approach when you
think of it that way.
So I applaud you for doing that.
So, um, amazing stuff.
Before I let you go, Claire, Ilike to end with what I call the
high five.
It's kind of cheesy.
I need a better name, but it'sbeen a year now and I haven't
found a better name.
But, um, five quick questions.
Five quick answers to just getto know you a little bit more on
(18:43):
how your brain works, but one.
What are you currently workingon for your own Con Ed?
What are you doing for yourprofessional development
Clare (18:52):
Well, I'm hoping you'll allow me to share something that
I just finished at the end oflast year.
We're early, still, early-ish in2023, so in at the very end of
2022, and actually thecertificate just arrived a few
days ago.
So I'm hoping that counts.
Mike
Mike (19:07):
I
Clare (19:07):
I finished, I finished an online course through Oxford
University on women'sleadership, and it was the best
six weeks of my life really.
It was amazing.
I learned so much about thingslike how to negotiate, how to
effectively mentor people.
What's the difference betweenmentoring and coaching?
It taught me.
About it gave me some languagearound leadership and my
(19:28):
leadership style and otherstyles that I'd seen others use
and what might work well in acertain scenario, and how to
dial things up and dial thingsdown, and how to develop skills
in mentoring and coaching.
So it was phenomenal and I wouldreally commend that course to
any of the women listening to ustoday.
Mike (19:46):
I love it.
I love it.
And as a father of two girls, Ican't wait for them to take that
course.
That'd be amazing.
So, um, daughters are awesome.
So um, um, what is one thingthat you've recently changed
your mind about?
Clare (19:59):
Um, I used.
I was so committed and so proudof my, I never thought I would
relinquish my badge of honor asan all weather cyclist.
I would ride outside in therain, in the snow, in the hail,
in the sunshine, in the 40, uh,40 degrees Celsius.
Whatever that converts to over ahundred decrees Fahrenheit, I
(20:21):
would do it.
And I was so proud of my badgeof honor, but I have recently
set my bike up inside on anindoor trainer and become
completely hooked on Swift, andI love it.
Mike (20:33):
That's actually interesting.
Is that your thing or are you abig cyclist?
Clare (20:37):
I am since, since my knee injury got to the point where I
couldn't run anymore, and thatwas really difficult and
devastating as, as many folkscan understand.
But cycling has, enswparticularly has been a a, a
savior for sure.
Mike (20:52):
Very neat.
Very neat.
That was a great answer.
I like that one.
Um, what's your favorite pieceof advice that you love to give
young profess?
Clare (20:59):
I like to let people know to take comfort that their
career will progress and that itwill grow, and I think it's
often.
Certainly when I first startedout my career, I would look to
mentors and people who weregiants in the field and think,
oh my goodness, I'm never gonnaget there.
I'm always gonna feel like I'mstuck at this beginning
(21:20):
position.
Like, I dunno anything.
And I guess it's a bit of thatimposter syndrome.
So I would like people to takeheart that your career does.
Evolve and grow and develop.
And I'm not saying that thatdoesn't happen with a bit of
luck, and we certainly don't,unfortunately, live in a
meritocracy.
And some of us have moreopportunities than others by din
(21:40):
where we've grown up or, or thecolor of our skin or our gender.
Um, so I'm not, not.
Um, discounting all of thosethings, but I think it is really
important to remember that yourcareer will grow and that when,
when you're starting out, it'snormal to feel that sense of, am
I really accepted here?
Do I really have the skills andthe expertise to belong here?
(22:02):
And to be honest, I still feellike that when sometimes when I
walk into a certain places.
I don't know that that evercompletely disappears, but I
hope that people can learn totrust their, that their
knowledge and their skills and,and what they're bringing to the
table is valued and important.
Mike (22:19):
That's amazing.
Great one too.
Um, what's coming up next foryou and or J A S P T, but you in
particular too?
Clare (22:27):
We are expanding the J S V T editorial board from 35
people to, I'm not gonna say howmany exactly, but we're
expanding
Mike (22:36):
That's
Clare (22:37):
and I'm really, really looking forward to getting to
know the new members and gettingto work with them.
We've got our big board meetingcoming up next month and it's
always, um, just such a joy toconnect with the editorial
board, learn about the newthings that are happening in
their.
Fields and for all, all of us towork together to do our own.
It's our own professionaldevelopment as an editorial
(22:59):
board and we take that reallyseriously.
So, so that's what I'm lookingforward to on a personal level,
just because it's such aprivilege to connect with all of
these different people from allaround the world, from different
backgrounds and on aprofessional and A S P T level
two.
Mike (23:13):
That's so cool.
I love it.
Um, well how can we learn moreabout you?
Obviously it's js pt.org ifyou're interested in js, PT and
all the great resources.
But what about yourself too?
Do you have any social medias oranywhere that you'd like to
share so people can learn moreabout you and Js P T?
Clare (23:30):
I am on Twitter, Claire underscore ar on Twitter.
I don't.
I've actually deliberately made.
The pull back from Twitter, preElon Musk, pre all the
craziness.
Um, partly, partly because as awoman, and I wanna acknowledge
this for your audience as well,it is, it can feel quite
difficult as, particularly as awoman, and I know many people
(23:52):
have some horrible experienceson social media, so that was a
conscious decision.
I do tweet their occasionallyand certainly I tweet, it's,
it's research tweets, it's notpersonal stuff, so people can
follow me on Twitter.
I have a research gate page foranybody who's looking for my
research papers, or not thepapers, but the records as
things are published.
(24:12):
And PubMed is the same.
So anybody who's the kind ofresearcher, geek listening out
there will know all of thoseresources.
Mike (24:21):
That's great.
Clare (24:21):
And of course, if you wanna, if you, if you like
listening to an Aussie accent,you can listen to me on the O S
P T.
Mike (24:27):
That's the only reason why I listen, to be honest with you.
And it has nothing to do withthe guests, but yes, I agree.
It's a, it's, it's, it's anadded perk, which is, which is
great.
But, um, and I, I completelyagree.
I just said the other day tosomebody at work that you're
either a bully or gettingbullied on Twitter, it's one of
the two.
It's like, oh, there is.
So it's a, it's just turned intosuch a, such an interesting
place.
So, uh, I'm definitely on there,less and less, unfortunately,
(24:50):
but that's why I get to.
Spending time with people likeyourself in person, sort of
through this podcast, throughthis video, we get to see each
other and talk.
And, um, again, I am soappreciative of you taking out
time to do this and to give backto, uh, the audience.
I think we've all learned a lot.
So thanks again, Claire.
Clare (25:09):
Thanks, Mike.
It's a pleasure to chat with youand to chat with the listeners
today.
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