September 11, 2023 • 29 mins
How can you build a community of brand advocates that love your company as much as you do?
After all, your customers don't need another thing; instead, they want to feel a part of something
What if you built your sales and marketing strategy around your customers so that you've developed an engaged, lifelong community?
Crack the code of creating a loyal tribe of brand cheerleaders with this week's guest, Laura Gatsos Young—a seasoned sales copywriter and marketing strategist.
Discover why simple data collection from surveys isn’t enough, and gain insights on how to extract more meaningful information from customer interactions.
Laura also shares the art of crafting the perfect questions to unearth your customers' real needs and desires - and how to position them as the hero of your brand narrative.
Together we'll explore the often overlooked, yet potent value of connecting with customers beyond the digital realm, and how these minor yet strategic actions can yield significant insights into your customer's world.
Are you ready to reshape your approach to customer engagement? Tune in 'cause Laura is going to share how you can connect with your audience so they engage more, buy more, and spread your message happily.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Many marketers have been taught about this, like
storytelling.
Obviously, storytelling is huge, it's impactful, but it's not
for everything, and I think oneof the great things you can do
when you're asking for voice ofcustomer is sort of scenario,
for example, like many peoplestart off their email marketing
with a story or they start theircontent you know their posts
with the story.
(00:23):
That should be relatable.
But even our own stories theyshouldn't really be about us.
They should be about us, butthey should be about how does my
clients see themselves in thestory?
So those are the kinds ofthings you can get, like those
scenario, specific things youcan get in voice of customer if
you're, if you're really lookingand forming your questions in
the right way.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to the standout business show.
This is where it's all abouthow to do.
Gosh, you know, I just made upthis new tagline.
I'm going to be flexion here.
I made a new tagline and nowit's like where did it go?
It's so new, let's see.
It's something about doing yourbusiness different, and all I
know it's all about making abigger difference by doing your
(01:10):
business differently.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I had to spit that out.
So, anyway, today's topic isbuilding a community of brand
evangelists, and so here's myquestion how do you connect with
your audience so that they willengage more, buy more and
spread your message happily?
How do you do that?
(01:35):
Customers don't really need thenext new thing from you.
They don't need a whole bunchof new information from you.
What they want is they want tofeel that they're part of
something.
So this is the kind of thingthat you want to try to create
for them.
So what if you built yourcomplete sales and marketing
strategy around your customersand so that you were developing
(01:57):
an engaged and lifelongcommunity?
What would that do for yourbusiness?
Well, the answers to that kindof question is the life, work
and the mission of this week'sguest on the standup business
show, laura Gastos Young.
She's a sales copywriter and amarketing and sales strategist.
So listen up, because Laura isgoing to spend some time sharing
(02:22):
how you can build a communityof brand advocates that actually
love your business as much asyou do.
So get ready, here we go, let'sstart the show.
All right, laura, welcome tothe show.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Hi Brad, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
All right.
So this is a really cool topic.
I just love this concept of notjust growing a business, but
clearly building a kind ofmovement.
And to start us off with thislike why do you think so many
businesses just completely missthis as a hat trick, like they
(03:05):
just they're out there doingtheir work, they think they've
got the best things sincepancakes, and they're not.
They this is something thatthey're just not thinking about
too much.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yes, I totally agree.
I think that, in a nutshell, iswhat you've said is like we
think so much about and we'retrained, really, as business
owners to think so much aboutwhat our product does for
someone, the benefit, thebenefits, the features of our
product, why we love it so much,why we think other people are
going to love it so much andthey very well might, right, but
(03:38):
I think the key always is tostart with your customer and
sort of the idea of that I talkabout is sort of belonging to
your customer and that's reallyfrom start to finish.
So that goes from sort of theproducts you develop, your
purpose for developing them, howyou communicate about them, how
you fix them, how youcommunicate with your clients
(04:00):
after they've, you know, hit themarket and people are using
them.
So I think, while we all startwith an idea based on a need in
the market or a desire someonemight have, I think that our
teachers and sort of our guide,our guidance, should come from
what our customers and not justwhat our customers want and need
(04:21):
.
I think that's something thatpeople kind of stop at.
It's like what are you hereabout pain points and desires
and things like that, but it'smore about what's the underlying
reason why they want things andhow will it fit into the
context of their life.
So I think many people losesight of it just too because
we're busy, and especially smallbusiness owners were so caught
(04:44):
up in what needs to get donethat sometimes we forget about
the core of our business, whichis our customers.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, well, I really like the phrase you belong to
your customers.
And it kind of like.
What it makes me think of is alittle bit of something that
Seth Godin says fairly often,which is, you know, creating
this culture where people likeus do things like this and sort
of this thing, like here, this,the, this is a place where we
(05:14):
belong.
So is that like, is that thekind of thing that you're
talking about?
Is like creating thisenvironment where their
customers are feeling like oh, Ifound my place, like this is,
this is a place for people likeme.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Exactly, exactly, and Seth is one of the people I
learn from almost every day.
I get his daily, you know thatdaily email he sends.
It's amazing.
Another kind of inspiration forthis was my work.
I've been in PR and marketingfor 20 years now.
Last job that I had was sort ofwas PR director at Michael Kors
in Canada and sort of thisdiverse kind of work experience,
(05:54):
whether it was a global luxurybrand or it now in my business
where I'm a copywriter and Ihelp people with their marketing
.
You know, whether it's a smallbusiness with a really small
client roster, like, the idea ofunder, the underlying desire
always, it seems, is some sortof sense of belonging, right,
people want to.
(06:15):
Whether it's they want tobelong to the certain group of
people that buy this type ofproduct or they want to belong
to a community.
You know if a client has acommunity based environment, if
it's, you know, there's alwaysunder underlying.
Or when I worked at MichaelKors, people wanted to be known
as wearing Michael Kors.
At first glance, right, and Ifeel like the idea of belong to
(06:38):
customers a two way street right.
So it's the idea that yourcustomers belong to you.
In terms of their loyalty, theywill go to you.
You know if they need a new,whatever it is, let's say, you
know they need a new, they needa new sales page written for a
program they're doing.
They will come to you, not goout and seek another copywriter,
even though they might becheaper or more expensive.
(07:00):
Whatever they value, right.
So the idea is that, yes, theywill buy from you consistently,
but also that, like, they'llsing their your praises, right?
But on the flip side of that,the reason I say it's a two way
street, is that you are asinvested in your customers and
their experience and what you'reproducing for them, and you
(07:21):
know how they get, how they arespoken to, how they are dealt
with from a customer servicepoint of view, how they are
spoken to and copy, how do youconnect with them.
So it's really a two way streetand it very much is like this
is for us, this is for peoplelike us in terms of you know,
whatever they relate to, a lotof my clients they really
appreciate the fact that after alaunch, I'll follow up with
(07:44):
them and I'll say, okay, let'stroubleshoot this, how did this
work out?
And so you know if they don'treally care about your customer
service.
They feel taken care of andthey feel like, even though I'm
a contractor, I sort of belongon the team, right?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So there's this like mutual respect that goes both
ways.
Yeah, the big extreme examplethat I know of in terms of a
company that's done thisremarkably well is Harley
Davidson.
And so you know, everybodyknows the brand and they also
know the type of person who'sgoing to embrace that brand and
what they look like and whatthey wear and sort of where they
(08:20):
hang out.
And it's quite the club if youdrive a Harley.
And, of course, if you drive aHarley, you look over at the
people who are on the Suzuki'sand go, yeah, I'm never going to
get on one of those, Totally.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And you know so and that's cool.
Like when you think about thatis like, oh yeah, well, it's not
just the product, it's thiswhole lifestyle, you know.
I mean, harley Davidson isliterally a lifestyle brand and
people who are drawn to it arereally drawn to it, and the
people who are not drawn to itare like, oh man, that's just
not for me and so really cool.
(09:00):
But for just us regularbusinesses, I'm sure that that
sort of end of things is alittle bit harder and a little
more challenging to manifest,and so I know your expertise is
all around copy and messagingand that kind of thing and just
like, what kinds of things areyou saying to people that will
(09:21):
resonate with them?
So talk a little bit about yourstrategies there.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I mean, and I think you know, I think people like
when you bring up that hugebrands like Harley Davidson or
you know I mentioned MichaelKors I think people think you
know there are two cans it'slike, oh well, you know this is
going to take you know so muchmoney and market research and
I'm going to end up with this 30page, you know, avatar of my
customer.
And then on the other side youhave people who will do sort of
(09:46):
this baseline research and comeup with a few adjectives about
you know what their customerwants or how they feel about it
or whatever.
But for me, what I always tellpeople and what I do in my own
business as a small businessowner is like there is such a
goldmine of what we call voiceof customer and copywriting and
voice of customer is really thekey to all copy.
(10:07):
It's the start and end pointreally of all effective copy.
So, as small business owners,what we can do is just really
start paying attention.
You know, looking at whatemails people are responding to,
looking at in a Facebook groupwhat are people talking about?
What are people responding to?
What are they saying.
I think one thing that gets lostin voice of customers like
(10:29):
we're asking.
You know whether you issue asurvey via Google forms or you
do something more formal throughlike a survey platform.
A lot of people think of voiceof customer and doing that.
Customer research is doingsurveys, but there's such a
minefield of, or such a you knowgoldmine of, just voice of
customer on Instagram comments,facebook groups, blog post
(10:54):
comments, podcasts you know whatare the most shared of your
podcasts Like there are so manyplaces where you can find this
voice of cut that what's reallyon your clients minds, your
potential customers minds areyour current ones, but also,
like, what are they hoping for?
What are they?
What are they expressing?
In terms of the context, I thinkone thing that gets really lost
(11:15):
in voice of customers.
We think, okay, that wholething of like needs, pains, pain
points, desires, you knowproblems to solve and that's
very important, but what's the?
What context are they living in?
When we kind of understand whatour clients, what their
day-to-day looks like, whatcontext they're living in, you
(11:36):
know we can speak to them onmore specific, in a more
specific way, and they canreally see themselves reflected
in it.
Right?
So I'm like, of course, one ofthe things that happened when we
, when I joined was, you know,we went public and we started
this.
You know, very rapid globalexpansion, and while the brand
was the brand that had beenaround for 30 years, it was in
(11:57):
different contexts.
We had to speak to ourcustomers in very different ways
, based on their lifestyle,their worldviews, how they
Interacted with the brand, whatthey thought, what words
resonated with them, right.
So I think it's for customers,like for small business owners,
especially us that, likecustomers that have different
(12:18):
Small business owners that havedifferent customers, you're
speaking to these differentcustomers at Different points of
the journey in a different way.
So context is something thatI've come to see over the years
as really mattering and I thinkit kind of gets left out of the
voice of customer conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, absolutely like the whole thing of you.
Know people talk a lot aboutyou.
Got to share your why.
And that's all great, but to meit's sort of like no, you have
to share why it matters to yourpeople.
No it's not about your why oryour purpose or your, you know,
your transformation or whatever,which is so many people you
know do that.
They go.
(12:54):
Oh, you know, I've seen thelight and here's my thing and
I'm charging off in thisdirection and I want everybody
to come run in my follow me, andthat may or may not resonate at
all with people, and so, intalking about voice of customers
, you know, going out andcollecting that stuff is
(13:15):
actually pretty straightforward.
I mean, the most basic thingthat you can do is literally get
on zoom calls with peopleindividually and ask them
questions, you know, and ittakes time, but people are
usually very Open about havingthose kinds of conversations.
But I think the issue is that,well then, all of a sudden, you
get all this stuff, all this,you know all these words, all
(13:36):
this language, and what do youdo in your process in terms of
curating that kind of data?
and then being able to thenchannel it through your
messaging.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, so I think it's really important.
Yeah, it's not enough to go offof one voice of customer survey
for sure.
I look for commonalities and Ilook for, even if the, even if
the words are not even likeadjectives or the same word I
look at sort of, I look forcommon themes like what's the
underlying theme here?
You know, you, they might statethat they're looking for a
(14:11):
problem to a solution, butKnowing where they're coming
from, taking the context intoconsideration, you know what is
it they really are looking for.
You know you'll hear a lotabout emotions under being.
You know the underlying factorwith all purchases, right, like
there are very few things in ourmodern world and you know where
we are and where we're doingbusiness, where we really need
(14:33):
them.
You know, like, do we reallyneed this coaching program?
Do we really need to buy thissoftware to manage our CRM?
Is our CRM not good enough asit is?
You know.
So I think that looking for thelike, if I am gonna invest in a
CRM, you are.
You know you are targeting mefor that.
What am I really looking for?
You know it's not the CRM, so Itry and see what's under, like
(14:57):
a bit of the psychology of itright, like what's underneath
these wants?
Why are they asking for it?
And I think the best way youcan kind of do this is, in your
questioning, really get specificabout like, where are you in
your business?
What's bothering you right now?
What's on your mind?
What are your goals?
Why are they your goals?
I think so many people thinkthat these more probing
questions people will not bewilling to do it because of the
(15:20):
time or they'll feel thatthey're intrusive.
But I think if you position itin the right way and if you do
have already, you know, a loyalcustomer base that feels they
belong to you, they're more thanhappy to give you their opinion
on these things.
So I look for commonalities, Ilook for common words and
phrases those words and phrasesshould be in your copy at all
(15:42):
times and then I try and lookand get a little bit more
curious about what are theunderlying emotions there, what
are they really looking for?
You know, and I try and putthat into my copy.
And another good point that youjust made was you know, many
marketers have been taught aboutthis like storytelling.
Obviously, storytelling is huge, it's impactful, but it's not
(16:03):
for everything, and I think oneof the great things you can do
when you're asking for voice ofcustomer is sort of scenario,
sort of like probing forscenarios.
So, for example, like manypeople start off their email
marketing with a story or theystart their content you know
their posts with a story.
That should be relatable.
But even our own stories theyshouldn't really be about us.
(16:25):
They should be about us, butthey should be about how does my
clients see themselves in thestory.
So those are the kinds ofthings you can get, like those
scenario specific things you canget in voice of customer if
you're really looking andforming your questions in the
right way.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, one of my previous guests is a guy by the
name of Nick Deimos who hasproduced Broadway musicals that
have won Emmys.
You know like he's veryaccomplished drama guy producer.
He is a big storyteller, he'sbegun storytelling and his thing
was all about.
(17:02):
The biggest mistake that peoplemake when they're telling
stories is they make themselvesthe hero and actually you wanna
make your audience the hero andto shift that so that you know
and it's not about you, it's notabout your product being the
hero that comes and solves theproblem, it's the audience you
have to set in the story, thatyour audiences are the ones who
(17:26):
get to be the Luke Skywalker ofyour story.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Because you know, at the end of the day, you know
people approach almosteverything with what's in it.
For me and I don't mean to saythat in a negative way, but
really like time is so limitedin our world there are a million
and one messages being.
We're bombarded with them allthe time.
There are a million and onechoices.
One of the reasons why I reallybelieve in this kind of process
(17:53):
of belonging to your customer,like investing in that, is that
you know that's one way to cutthrough the noise.
This person really cares aboutmy experience.
They care about my results,they care about what I have to
say, they care about theproducts that I wanna do.
You know I've seen measurableresults happen when people have
hired me to copyright and I justgo into a deep dive research of
(18:14):
, like their voice of customerand you know I give them a
survey for people to fill outand we start using that in the
copy and I can tell you thereare measurable increases in
conversions and stuff becausepeople, it's just something that
they can see themselves in,they can relate to they.
You know, when you one of themost powerful things one of my
(18:36):
clients has just done this likeimplementing a survey and then
reporting back the changesyou're making, the actions
you're taking based on theirfeedback, and how you're gonna
improve the community or theprogram.
And that really does speakvolumes to people.
I recently just signed up Imight be the last person on
earth for this athletic greenssupplement.
(18:57):
It's like a vitamin supplement.
I'm terrible doing my own,buying my own vitamins and
taking them.
So I was saying it for, youknow, 30 days I got this email.
They asked me for a shortsurvey.
It was multiple choice and thenthe final, you know question
was do you have any feedback?
I gave a two sentence thing ofmy feedback and I got this
personalized email addressinglike the thing that I complained
(19:19):
about, which was the taste andhow.
I can you know if I still wannaimplement it into my daily
routine?
Here are some options.
They acknowledge the fact thatthey do get feedback about the
taste of it and then how I cankind of keep going with it or
not.
And it was so effective becausethey met me where I was.
They did not try and say no.
(19:40):
Actually you know 99.9% of ourclients how light the taste.
You know it wasn't any of that.
It was like hey, I see you, Iget you, this is what we're
doing about it, this is how youcan help change it, right.
So, and I think you know that ifI was gonna cancel, I'm not
gonna cancel now, right?
So you know I'm gonna cancelnow, right?
I do think that you know, thebeauty of that is like I'm
(20:01):
telling you about this now, I'mtelling your audience about this
now, and that's really thedefinition of sort of a brand
evangelists, right?
Like someone who's willing togo out and say, hey, you really
got to try this.
They're the best at this.
You know, you really have tobook with Brad, like he's made
my life so much easier.
I have my content, I have myvideos, I feel confident.
You know it's that we live in aworld of reviews and there's
(20:23):
nothing better than those sortof like word of mouth, first
person referrals.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, that's really so key.
I mean, in this online world,it's so prevalent that companies
have become really faceless andhumanless.
You know, you deal with any ofthe big giant brands I mean,
social media is supposed to bethis place for people to people,
stuff but a business.
(20:49):
You know Facebook.
When have you ever interactedwith anybody from Facebook as a
user?
Like it just never happens, youknow.
And when did anybody fromFacebook ever reach out to you
and say, hey, you know what areyou thinking?
How could we improve ourplatform?
Like they don't care or theydon't seem to care?
And so, as a small business, Ithink this is where you can
(21:10):
really become a customerchampion, just simply by showing
how much you care and reachingout to people in any kind of
personal way.
I mean, this is why you knowfor me, why I'm so big on video.
I think you know everybody hasthe chance to use this medium to
literally be themselves and toreach out to people.
(21:31):
And you know, like, directlyconnect face to face and, even
though it's virtual, withwhoever it is that you feel like
you need to be connecting with.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Totally, totally.
I agree, and I think you knowit's funny because you just
mentioned Facebook and the wholeidea of belonging.
I think you know belonging wasbuilt into Facebook's very exist
, like oh, are you on Facebook,let's connect on Facebook.
Like there was this sense ofbelonging.
You know, and I've come tonotice this in so many things,
whether I'm working with peoplewho are selling products or
(22:02):
services, or you know, when wewere selling clothes, like it is
this idea of belonging andpeople won't ever say it and
it's funny, like no one willreally say I really want to
belong.
But that's kind of where I'mgoing to with, like when you
asked about voice of customerand like how I analyze it, it's
like what's that underlyingfeeling there?
Like what are people reallywanting?
(22:22):
And so it's tricky.
But you know, especially smallbusiness owners, we have so much
we're not dealing with millionsand millions of people, right?
So it is a little bit easier tolike have those customer
interactions.
I know a lot of small businesseslike they'll send people.
You know they'll ask for thoseZoom interviews and stuff.
But if they have like a brickand mortar, like there's nothing
(22:44):
more powerful than going intothe store and spending half a
day.
Or you know Michael Kors.
They used to work all the timein the stores and just listening
to what people said, and that'swhere the idea of context came
to Like this person needs thisfor this.
This person needs this for this.
Are they buying the sameproduct?
Yeah, but it's a totallydifferent.
I wouldn't sell it to them inthe same way.
(23:05):
So it's really interesting andI think, as small business
owners, we really do have theopportunity if we're willing to
take the time and make theeffort to really just connect
with people and get that intel.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Exactly.
It's so interesting.
I mean, we get caught up withand this is what I'm just
referring to the way allbusiness has moved online and
now that we're on the internetand we're dealing with things
like digital marketing as a wayto get our message out, there's
a tendency to be constantly insearch of the next magical thing
(23:39):
, the next silver bullet that'sgonna make all the difference,
so that all of a sudden, boom,I'll get a viral hit, or boom,
something will connect, you know, or this new tool is gonna take
all my pain away, when actually, you know, I just simply being
human to human with yourcustomer base, it's just a
(24:01):
simple, elegant way of havingyour business grow because,
again, like, if you can this issomething else that I've heard
Seth Godin talk about is that,instead of thinking about, like
the next viral hit, do somethingreally successful for one of
your customers so that theystart to rave about it.
(24:22):
And, and if you just do that andmay bring their friends, and
that's a repeatable thing likeyou keep doing that for people,
yeah, you win the game.
That's that's it.
You've went, you win.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
And I think we start out being so customer focused
and then when we have a fullclient roster or you know we're
managing deadlines and all thesethings, it's easy to get the
job done and move on.
And I think that's a lot of theyou know, that's voice of
customer.
I hear it's like people feelvery much like Okay, I had this
engagement and then they neverReached out.
(24:53):
Or I felt like, you know, wewere, the clock was ticking, got
through the hour, okay, get off, like they didn't feel invested
in.
And I think that now more thanever and you know we need to be
doing that but more than that,one thing I did want to just
before I wanted to get in, isthat you know these ideas of
copywriting and sales writing,like using this voice of
(25:16):
customer as a way to you knowit's not to be used as a weapon,
it's to be used as a form ofconnection, and I think you know
the, the, you know the idea ofpersuasion is such that you know
the way it was initiallythought of is like it was.
You know Chaldeany wanted toprotect customers.
This is what companies aregoing to do to you, based on
what they know about psychology,and we've kind of taken it in
(25:38):
copy and turned it around likethis is how you get people to
buy.
So I am very careful aboutrecommending or using voice of
customer sort of as a, as aweapon or a manipulation tool.
I think it's very much so a wayto connect and say listen, I
see you, this is what I can do.
Like you know, this is how Ican help, if you're, if this is
the right thing for you, yeah,exactly.
Well, we're getting prettyclose to the end of our time.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
We haven't covered everything we could, but this is
just the time we have.
So if there is just one morething you'd like to say about
Creating brand evangelismamongst your customers, what
would that be?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I would say look at your processes now and look at
how you can even take one smallstep.
You know, maybe you have anemail going out, maybe you are.
You know, you have a, haveextra half hour hour.
Go into where your customersare and see what they're saying,
send out, create a very simpleGoogle form or survey and be
(26:35):
brave and send it to them andask them to take, you know, this
two-minute survey so you can,you know, get to know your
customers.
You know, get insight into whatthey're thinking and needing
and serve them on that.
Like there are very few, thereare very Effective things that
you can do that are not too muchof a time commitment or too
much of an ask.
So I would say, you know, takeone small action where you can
(26:56):
get more insight into yourcustomers other than the hard
data Of sales and opens and thatthing kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
All right.
Well, this has been reallygreat.
This is a wonderful topic.
I it's so kind of criticalright now.
I mean especially with I.
Really I Get sort of theheebie-jeebies whenever I hear
about artificial intelligenceand it's sort of like in the
world of, and our new world of,ai everywhere, right, exactly, I
(27:30):
mean the point is, in thisworld where we're being, you
know, overcome with Everythingbeing AI, every time we turn
around there's some new AI thingof one kind or another that's
seems to be encroaching on a lotof stuff around us.
This, you know, reaching out toyour customers, being a human to
them, actually showing that youcare, giving them a space where
(27:51):
they field care for and theyfeel like they belong, is Super
critical and obviously probablyone of the best ways to stand
out with your business.
So I want to thank you so muchfor coming on talking about this
today.
If people are now inspired andthey're saying, oh, now I want
Laura to help me build mycommunity of Grand Evangelists,
(28:12):
what's the best way for them tohook up with you?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So, on LinkedIn would be great, or I have a website
where I sort of elaborate moreon my thinking around things
like this.
So it's um Laura Gatsos, g A TS O S young calm.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
All right, well, make sure that links to your stuff
are in the show notes.
And, laura, thanks so much forcoming on today.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Thank you, brad, great to see you.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And for you who are listening here at the end, I
just want to remind you that ifyou would like to get all of the
archive of the standoutbusiness show, just go to
standoutbusinessshow and it'sall there, all the audio of the
video you can binge to yourheart's content.
And remember we go live everyThursday, 11 am Eastern time.
(29:03):
And until the next time, solong.
Many marketers have been taught about this, like
storytelling.
Obviously, storytelling is huge, it's impactful, but it's not
for everything, and I think oneof the great things you can do
when you're asking for voice ofcustomer is sort of scenario,
for example, like many peoplestart off their email marketing
with a story or they start theircontent you know their posts
with the story.
(00:23):
That should be relatable.
But even our own stories theyshouldn't really be about us.
They should be about us, butthey should be about how does my
clients see themselves in thestory?
So those are the kinds ofthings you can get, like those
scenario, specific things youcan get in voice of customer if
you're, if you're really lookingand forming your questions in
the right way.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Welcome to the standout business show.
This is where it's all abouthow to do.
Gosh, you know, I just made upthis new tagline.
I'm going to be flexion here.
I made a new tagline and nowit's like where did it go?
It's so new, let's see.
It's something about doing yourbusiness different, and all I
know it's all about making abigger difference by doing your
(01:10):
business differently.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I had to spit that out.
So, anyway, today's topic isbuilding a community of brand
evangelists, and so here's myquestion how do you connect with
your audience so that they willengage more, buy more and
spread your message happily?
How do you do that?
(01:35):
Customers don't really need thenext new thing from you.
They don't need a whole bunchof new information from you.
What they want is they want tofeel that they're part of
something.
So this is the kind of thingthat you want to try to create
for them.
So what if you built yourcomplete sales and marketing
strategy around your customersand so that you were developing
(01:57):
an engaged and lifelongcommunity?
What would that do for yourbusiness?
Well, the answers to that kindof question is the life, work
and the mission of this week'sguest on the standup business
show, laura Gastos Young.
She's a sales copywriter and amarketing and sales strategist.
So listen up, because Laura isgoing to spend some time sharing
(02:22):
how you can build a communityof brand advocates that actually
love your business as much asyou do.
So get ready, here we go, let'sstart the show.
All right, laura, welcome tothe show.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Hi Brad, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
All right.
So this is a really cool topic.
I just love this concept of notjust growing a business, but
clearly building a kind ofmovement.
And to start us off with thislike why do you think so many
businesses just completely missthis as a hat trick, like they
(03:05):
just they're out there doingtheir work, they think they've
got the best things sincepancakes, and they're not.
They this is something thatthey're just not thinking about
too much.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yes, I totally agree.
I think that, in a nutshell, iswhat you've said is like we
think so much about and we'retrained, really, as business
owners to think so much aboutwhat our product does for
someone, the benefit, thebenefits, the features of our
product, why we love it so much,why we think other people are
going to love it so much andthey very well might, right, but
(03:38):
I think the key always is tostart with your customer and
sort of the idea of that I talkabout is sort of belonging to
your customer and that's reallyfrom start to finish.
So that goes from sort of theproducts you develop, your
purpose for developing them, howyou communicate about them, how
you fix them, how youcommunicate with your clients
(04:00):
after they've, you know, hit themarket and people are using
them.
So I think, while we all startwith an idea based on a need in
the market or a desire someonemight have, I think that our
teachers and sort of our guide,our guidance, should come from
what our customers and not justwhat our customers want and need
(04:21):
.
I think that's something thatpeople kind of stop at.
It's like what are you hereabout pain points and desires
and things like that, but it'smore about what's the underlying
reason why they want things andhow will it fit into the
context of their life.
So I think many people losesight of it just too because
we're busy, and especially smallbusiness owners were so caught
(04:44):
up in what needs to get donethat sometimes we forget about
the core of our business, whichis our customers.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, well, I really like the phrase you belong to
your customers.
And it kind of like.
What it makes me think of is alittle bit of something that
Seth Godin says fairly often,which is, you know, creating
this culture where people likeus do things like this and sort
of this thing, like here, this,the, this is a place where we
(05:14):
belong.
So is that like, is that thekind of thing that you're
talking about?
Is like creating thisenvironment where their
customers are feeling like oh, Ifound my place, like this is,
this is a place for people likeme.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Exactly, exactly, and Seth is one of the people I
learn from almost every day.
I get his daily, you know thatdaily email he sends.
It's amazing.
Another kind of inspiration forthis was my work.
I've been in PR and marketingfor 20 years now.
Last job that I had was sort ofwas PR director at Michael Kors
in Canada and sort of thisdiverse kind of work experience,
(05:54):
whether it was a global luxurybrand or it now in my business
where I'm a copywriter and Ihelp people with their marketing
.
You know, whether it's a smallbusiness with a really small
client roster, like, the idea ofunder, the underlying desire
always, it seems, is some sortof sense of belonging, right,
people want to.
(06:15):
Whether it's they want tobelong to the certain group of
people that buy this type ofproduct or they want to belong
to a community.
You know if a client has acommunity based environment, if
it's, you know, there's alwaysunder underlying.
Or when I worked at MichaelKors, people wanted to be known
as wearing Michael Kors.
At first glance, right, and Ifeel like the idea of belong to
(06:38):
customers a two way street right.
So it's the idea that yourcustomers belong to you.
In terms of their loyalty, theywill go to you.
You know if they need a new,whatever it is, let's say, you
know they need a new, they needa new sales page written for a
program they're doing.
They will come to you, not goout and seek another copywriter,
even though they might becheaper or more expensive.
(07:00):
Whatever they value, right.
So the idea is that, yes, theywill buy from you consistently,
but also that, like, they'llsing their your praises, right?
But on the flip side of that,the reason I say it's a two way
street, is that you are asinvested in your customers and
their experience and what you'reproducing for them, and you
(07:21):
know how they get, how they arespoken to, how they are dealt
with from a customer servicepoint of view, how they are
spoken to and copy, how do youconnect with them.
So it's really a two way streetand it very much is like this
is for us, this is for peoplelike us in terms of you know,
whatever they relate to, a lotof my clients they really
appreciate the fact that after alaunch, I'll follow up with
(07:44):
them and I'll say, okay, let'stroubleshoot this, how did this
work out?
And so you know if they don'treally care about your customer
service.
They feel taken care of andthey feel like, even though I'm
a contractor, I sort of belongon the team, right?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So there's this like mutual respect that goes both
ways.
Yeah, the big extreme examplethat I know of in terms of a
company that's done thisremarkably well is Harley
Davidson.
And so you know, everybodyknows the brand and they also
know the type of person who'sgoing to embrace that brand and
what they look like and whatthey wear and sort of where they
(08:20):
hang out.
And it's quite the club if youdrive a Harley.
And, of course, if you drive aHarley, you look over at the
people who are on the Suzuki'sand go, yeah, I'm never going to
get on one of those, Totally.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
And you know so and that's cool.
Like when you think about thatis like, oh yeah, well, it's not
just the product, it's thiswhole lifestyle, you know.
I mean, harley Davidson isliterally a lifestyle brand and
people who are drawn to it arereally drawn to it, and the
people who are not drawn to itare like, oh man, that's just
not for me and so really cool.
(09:00):
But for just us regularbusinesses, I'm sure that that
sort of end of things is alittle bit harder and a little
more challenging to manifest,and so I know your expertise is
all around copy and messagingand that kind of thing and just
like, what kinds of things areyou saying to people that will
(09:21):
resonate with them?
So talk a little bit about yourstrategies there.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I mean, and I think you know, I think people like
when you bring up that hugebrands like Harley Davidson or
you know I mentioned MichaelKors I think people think you
know there are two cans it'slike, oh well, you know this is
going to take you know so muchmoney and market research and
I'm going to end up with this 30page, you know, avatar of my
customer.
And then on the other side youhave people who will do sort of
(09:46):
this baseline research and comeup with a few adjectives about
you know what their customerwants or how they feel about it
or whatever.
But for me, what I always tellpeople and what I do in my own
business as a small businessowner is like there is such a
goldmine of what we call voiceof customer and copywriting and
voice of customer is really thekey to all copy.
(10:07):
It's the start and end pointreally of all effective copy.
So, as small business owners,what we can do is just really
start paying attention.
You know, looking at whatemails people are responding to,
looking at in a Facebook groupwhat are people talking about?
What are people responding to?
What are they saying.
I think one thing that gets lostin voice of customers like
(10:29):
we're asking.
You know whether you issue asurvey via Google forms or you
do something more formal throughlike a survey platform.
A lot of people think of voiceof customer and doing that.
Customer research is doingsurveys, but there's such a
minefield of, or such a you knowgoldmine of, just voice of
customer on Instagram comments,facebook groups, blog post
(10:54):
comments, podcasts you know whatare the most shared of your
podcasts Like there are so manyplaces where you can find this
voice of cut that what's reallyon your clients minds, your
potential customers minds areyour current ones, but also,
like, what are they hoping for?
What are they?
What are they expressing?
In terms of the context, I thinkone thing that gets really lost
(11:15):
in voice of customers.
We think, okay, that wholething of like needs, pains, pain
points, desires, you knowproblems to solve and that's
very important, but what's the?
What context are they living in?
When we kind of understand whatour clients, what their
day-to-day looks like, whatcontext they're living in, you
(11:36):
know we can speak to them onmore specific, in a more
specific way, and they canreally see themselves reflected
in it.
Right?
So I'm like, of course, one ofthe things that happened when we
, when I joined was, you know,we went public and we started
this.
You know, very rapid globalexpansion, and while the brand
was the brand that had beenaround for 30 years, it was in
(11:57):
different contexts.
We had to speak to ourcustomers in very different ways
, based on their lifestyle,their worldviews, how they
Interacted with the brand, whatthey thought, what words
resonated with them, right.
So I think it's for customers,like for small business owners,
especially us that, likecustomers that have different
(12:18):
Small business owners that havedifferent customers, you're
speaking to these differentcustomers at Different points of
the journey in a different way.
So context is something thatI've come to see over the years
as really mattering and I thinkit kind of gets left out of the
voice of customer conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, absolutely like the whole thing of you.
Know people talk a lot aboutyou.
Got to share your why.
And that's all great, but to meit's sort of like no, you have
to share why it matters to yourpeople.
No it's not about your why oryour purpose or your, you know,
your transformation or whatever,which is so many people you
know do that.
They go.
(12:54):
Oh, you know, I've seen thelight and here's my thing and
I'm charging off in thisdirection and I want everybody
to come run in my follow me, andthat may or may not resonate at
all with people, and so, intalking about voice of customers
, you know, going out andcollecting that stuff is
(13:15):
actually pretty straightforward.
I mean, the most basic thingthat you can do is literally get
on zoom calls with peopleindividually and ask them
questions, you know, and ittakes time, but people are
usually very Open about havingthose kinds of conversations.
But I think the issue is that,well then, all of a sudden, you
get all this stuff, all this,you know all these words, all
(13:36):
this language, and what do youdo in your process in terms of
curating that kind of data?
and then being able to thenchannel it through your
messaging.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, so I think it's really important.
Yeah, it's not enough to go offof one voice of customer survey
for sure.
I look for commonalities and Ilook for, even if the, even if
the words are not even likeadjectives or the same word I
look at sort of, I look forcommon themes like what's the
underlying theme here?
You know, you, they might statethat they're looking for a
(14:11):
problem to a solution, butKnowing where they're coming
from, taking the context intoconsideration, you know what is
it they really are looking for.
You know you'll hear a lotabout emotions under being.
You know the underlying factorwith all purchases, right, like
there are very few things in ourmodern world and you know where
we are and where we're doingbusiness, where we really need
(14:33):
them.
You know, like, do we reallyneed this coaching program?
Do we really need to buy thissoftware to manage our CRM?
Is our CRM not good enough asit is?
You know.
So I think that looking for thelike, if I am gonna invest in a
CRM, you are.
You know you are targeting mefor that.
What am I really looking for?
You know it's not the CRM, so Itry and see what's under, like
(14:57):
a bit of the psychology of itright, like what's underneath
these wants?
Why are they asking for it?
And I think the best way youcan kind of do this is, in your
questioning, really get specificabout like, where are you in
your business?
What's bothering you right now?
What's on your mind?
What are your goals?
Why are they your goals?
I think so many people thinkthat these more probing
questions people will not bewilling to do it because of the
(15:20):
time or they'll feel thatthey're intrusive.
But I think if you position itin the right way and if you do
have already, you know, a loyalcustomer base that feels they
belong to you, they're more thanhappy to give you their opinion
on these things.
So I look for commonalities, Ilook for common words and
phrases those words and phrasesshould be in your copy at all
(15:42):
times and then I try and lookand get a little bit more
curious about what are theunderlying emotions there, what
are they really looking for?
You know, and I try and putthat into my copy.
And another good point that youjust made was you know, many
marketers have been taught aboutthis like storytelling.
Obviously, storytelling is huge, it's impactful, but it's not
(16:03):
for everything, and I think oneof the great things you can do
when you're asking for voice ofcustomer is sort of scenario,
sort of like probing forscenarios.
So, for example, like manypeople start off their email
marketing with a story or theystart their content you know
their posts with a story.
That should be relatable.
But even our own stories theyshouldn't really be about us.
(16:25):
They should be about us, butthey should be about how does my
clients see themselves in thestory.
So those are the kinds ofthings you can get, like those
scenario specific things you canget in voice of customer if
you're really looking andforming your questions in the
right way.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, one of my previous guests is a guy by the
name of Nick Deimos who hasproduced Broadway musicals that
have won Emmys.
You know like he's veryaccomplished drama guy producer.
He is a big storyteller, he'sbegun storytelling and his thing
was all about.
(17:02):
The biggest mistake that peoplemake when they're telling
stories is they make themselvesthe hero and actually you wanna
make your audience the hero andto shift that so that you know
and it's not about you, it's notabout your product being the
hero that comes and solves theproblem, it's the audience you
have to set in the story, thatyour audiences are the ones who
(17:26):
get to be the Luke Skywalker ofyour story.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Because you know, at the end of the day, you know
people approach almosteverything with what's in it.
For me and I don't mean to saythat in a negative way, but
really like time is so limitedin our world there are a million
and one messages being.
We're bombarded with them allthe time.
There are a million and onechoices.
One of the reasons why I reallybelieve in this kind of process
(17:53):
of belonging to your customer,like investing in that, is that
you know that's one way to cutthrough the noise.
This person really cares aboutmy experience.
They care about my results,they care about what I have to
say, they care about theproducts that I wanna do.
You know I've seen measurableresults happen when people have
hired me to copyright and I justgo into a deep dive research of
(18:14):
, like their voice of customerand you know I give them a
survey for people to fill outand we start using that in the
copy and I can tell you thereare measurable increases in
conversions and stuff becausepeople, it's just something that
they can see themselves in,they can relate to they.
You know, when you one of themost powerful things one of my
(18:36):
clients has just done this likeimplementing a survey and then
reporting back the changesyou're making, the actions
you're taking based on theirfeedback, and how you're gonna
improve the community or theprogram.
And that really does speakvolumes to people.
I recently just signed up Imight be the last person on
earth for this athletic greenssupplement.
(18:57):
It's like a vitamin supplement.
I'm terrible doing my own,buying my own vitamins and
taking them.
So I was saying it for, youknow, 30 days I got this email.
They asked me for a shortsurvey.
It was multiple choice and thenthe final, you know question
was do you have any feedback?
I gave a two sentence thing ofmy feedback and I got this
personalized email addressinglike the thing that I complained
(19:19):
about, which was the taste andhow.
I can you know if I still wannaimplement it into my daily
routine?
Here are some options.
They acknowledge the fact thatthey do get feedback about the
taste of it and then how I cankind of keep going with it or
not.
And it was so effective becausethey met me where I was.
They did not try and say no.
(19:40):
Actually you know 99.9% of ourclients how light the taste.
You know it wasn't any of that.
It was like hey, I see you, Iget you, this is what we're
doing about it, this is how youcan help change it, right.
So, and I think you know that ifI was gonna cancel, I'm not
gonna cancel now, right?
So you know I'm gonna cancelnow, right?
I do think that you know, thebeauty of that is like I'm
(20:01):
telling you about this now, I'mtelling your audience about this
now, and that's really thedefinition of sort of a brand
evangelists, right?
Like someone who's willing togo out and say, hey, you really
got to try this.
They're the best at this.
You know, you really have tobook with Brad, like he's made
my life so much easier.
I have my content, I have myvideos, I feel confident.
You know it's that we live in aworld of reviews and there's
(20:23):
nothing better than those sortof like word of mouth, first
person referrals.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, that's really so key.
I mean, in this online world,it's so prevalent that companies
have become really faceless andhumanless.
You know, you deal with any ofthe big giant brands I mean,
social media is supposed to bethis place for people to people,
stuff but a business.
(20:49):
You know Facebook.
When have you ever interactedwith anybody from Facebook as a
user?
Like it just never happens, youknow.
And when did anybody fromFacebook ever reach out to you
and say, hey, you know what areyou thinking?
How could we improve ourplatform?
Like they don't care or theydon't seem to care?
And so, as a small business, Ithink this is where you can
(21:10):
really become a customerchampion, just simply by showing
how much you care and reachingout to people in any kind of
personal way.
I mean, this is why you knowfor me, why I'm so big on video.
I think you know everybody hasthe chance to use this medium to
literally be themselves and toreach out to people.
(21:31):
And you know, like, directlyconnect face to face and, even
though it's virtual, withwhoever it is that you feel like
you need to be connecting with.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Totally, totally.
I agree, and I think you knowit's funny because you just
mentioned Facebook and the wholeidea of belonging.
I think you know belonging wasbuilt into Facebook's very exist
, like oh, are you on Facebook,let's connect on Facebook.
Like there was this sense ofbelonging.
You know, and I've come tonotice this in so many things,
whether I'm working with peoplewho are selling products or
(22:02):
services, or you know, when wewere selling clothes, like it is
this idea of belonging andpeople won't ever say it and
it's funny, like no one willreally say I really want to
belong.
But that's kind of where I'mgoing to with, like when you
asked about voice of customerand like how I analyze it, it's
like what's that underlyingfeeling there?
Like what are people reallywanting?
(22:22):
And so it's tricky.
But you know, especially smallbusiness owners, we have so much
we're not dealing with millionsand millions of people, right?
So it is a little bit easier tolike have those customer
interactions.
I know a lot of small businesseslike they'll send people.
You know they'll ask for thoseZoom interviews and stuff.
But if they have like a brickand mortar, like there's nothing
(22:44):
more powerful than going intothe store and spending half a
day.
Or you know Michael Kors.
They used to work all the timein the stores and just listening
to what people said, and that'swhere the idea of context came
to Like this person needs thisfor this.
This person needs this for this.
Are they buying the sameproduct?
Yeah, but it's a totallydifferent.
I wouldn't sell it to them inthe same way.
(23:05):
So it's really interesting andI think, as small business
owners, we really do have theopportunity if we're willing to
take the time and make theeffort to really just connect
with people and get that intel.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Exactly.
It's so interesting.
I mean, we get caught up withand this is what I'm just
referring to the way allbusiness has moved online and
now that we're on the internetand we're dealing with things
like digital marketing as a wayto get our message out, there's
a tendency to be constantly insearch of the next magical thing
(23:39):
, the next silver bullet that'sgonna make all the difference,
so that all of a sudden, boom,I'll get a viral hit, or boom,
something will connect, you know, or this new tool is gonna take
all my pain away, when actually, you know, I just simply being
human to human with yourcustomer base, it's just a
(24:01):
simple, elegant way of havingyour business grow because,
again, like, if you can this issomething else that I've heard
Seth Godin talk about is that,instead of thinking about, like
the next viral hit, do somethingreally successful for one of
your customers so that theystart to rave about it.
(24:22):
And, and if you just do that andmay bring their friends, and
that's a repeatable thing likeyou keep doing that for people,
yeah, you win the game.
That's that's it.
You've went, you win.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
And I think we start out being so customer focused
and then when we have a fullclient roster or you know we're
managing deadlines and all thesethings, it's easy to get the
job done and move on.
And I think that's a lot of theyou know, that's voice of
customer.
I hear it's like people feelvery much like Okay, I had this
engagement and then they neverReached out.
(24:53):
Or I felt like, you know, wewere, the clock was ticking, got
through the hour, okay, get off, like they didn't feel invested
in.
And I think that now more thanever and you know we need to be
doing that but more than that,one thing I did want to just
before I wanted to get in, isthat you know these ideas of
copywriting and sales writing,like using this voice of
(25:16):
customer as a way to you knowit's not to be used as a weapon,
it's to be used as a form ofconnection, and I think you know
the, the, you know the idea ofpersuasion is such that you know
the way it was initiallythought of is like it was.
You know Chaldeany wanted toprotect customers.
This is what companies aregoing to do to you, based on
what they know about psychology,and we've kind of taken it in
(25:38):
copy and turned it around likethis is how you get people to
buy.
So I am very careful aboutrecommending or using voice of
customer sort of as a, as aweapon or a manipulation tool.
I think it's very much so a wayto connect and say listen, I
see you, this is what I can do.
Like you know, this is how Ican help, if you're, if this is
the right thing for you, yeah,exactly.
Well, we're getting prettyclose to the end of our time.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
We haven't covered everything we could, but this is
just the time we have.
So if there is just one morething you'd like to say about
Creating brand evangelismamongst your customers, what
would that be?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I would say look at your processes now and look at
how you can even take one smallstep.
You know, maybe you have anemail going out, maybe you are.
You know, you have a, haveextra half hour hour.
Go into where your customersare and see what they're saying,
send out, create a very simpleGoogle form or survey and be
(26:35):
brave and send it to them andask them to take, you know, this
two-minute survey so you can,you know, get to know your
customers.
You know, get insight into whatthey're thinking and needing
and serve them on that.
Like there are very few, thereare very Effective things that
you can do that are not too muchof a time commitment or too
much of an ask.
So I would say, you know, takeone small action where you can
(26:56):
get more insight into yourcustomers other than the hard
data Of sales and opens and thatthing kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
All right.
Well, this has been reallygreat.
This is a wonderful topic.
I it's so kind of criticalright now.
I mean especially with I.
Really I Get sort of theheebie-jeebies whenever I hear
about artificial intelligenceand it's sort of like in the
world of, and our new world of,ai everywhere, right, exactly, I
(27:30):
mean the point is, in thisworld where we're being, you
know, overcome with Everythingbeing AI, every time we turn
around there's some new AI thingof one kind or another that's
seems to be encroaching on a lotof stuff around us.
This, you know, reaching out toyour customers, being a human to
them, actually showing that youcare, giving them a space where
(27:51):
they field care for and theyfeel like they belong, is Super
critical and obviously probablyone of the best ways to stand
out with your business.
So I want to thank you so muchfor coming on talking about this
today.
If people are now inspired andthey're saying, oh, now I want
Laura to help me build mycommunity of Grand Evangelists,
(28:12):
what's the best way for them tohook up with you?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
So, on LinkedIn would be great, or I have a website
where I sort of elaborate moreon my thinking around things
like this.
So it's um Laura Gatsos, g A TS O S young calm.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
All right, well, make sure that links to your stuff
are in the show notes.
And, laura, thanks so much forcoming on today.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Thank you, brad, great to see you.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And for you who are listening here at the end, I
just want to remind you that ifyou would like to get all of the
archive of the standoutbusiness show, just go to
standoutbusinessshow and it'sall there, all the audio of the
video you can binge to yourheart's content.
And remember we go live everyThursday, 11 am Eastern time.
(29:03):
And until the next time, solong.
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