Make Friends with Your Imposter with Daphne Dickopf (stage 2) - Ep. 335

In this investing episode, Daphne Dickopf, Founder and Owner of Change Matters Coaching LLC, shares shares tools to overcome imposter syndrome. If you struggle with feeling out of depth as a startup founder, you won't want to miss it.

You will discover:

- Why imposter feelings signal growth in stage 2

- How to reframe imposter as an ally for progress

- What daily practices build authentic confidence

This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stage 2 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz

Daphne Dickopf owns a consulting, coaching, and training company and is an ICF-certified executive coach, facilitator, and trainer, specializing in individual, team, and organizational development. Her background in international project management and her own leadership experience underpin her belief in every person's innate ability to find the best solutions and chart their path. She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in International Marketing from the Regents Business School in London, United Kingdom, and a dual Master of Business Administration from ESSEC Business School in Paris, France, and the Mannheim Business School in Germany.

Want to learn more about Daphne Dickopf's work at Change Matters Coaching LLC? Check out her company website at https://www.change-matters.com/ and her personal website at https://www.daphnedickopf.com/ and get a copy of her book at https://www.amazon.com/Make-Friends-Your-Impostor-Superpower-ebook/dp/B0DZ6H1QPX/ref=sr_1_1

Mentioned in this episode:

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Episode Transcript

Scott Ritzheimer (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again

(00:02):
to the start, scale and succeed.Podcast, the only podcast that
grows with you through all sevenstages of your journey. As a
founder and I'm your host, ScottRitzheimer, and we have an
unbelievably powerful episode instore for you here today,
because there's only one problemthat, when I think about it.
Every single one of my clientshas to deal with, or at least

(00:23):
has had to deal with, at somestage in their career. It's not
a lack of profitability, it'snot hiring. It's not even,
somewhat ironically, trying tofigure out what stage they're in
and what to do about it. No, theonly problem that I've seen
affect every single one of myclients, regardless of their
degree of success is the feelingof being an imposter in someone

(00:44):
else's world. And nowhere isthis more true and more
debilitating in our journey asfounders than in that stage two
mode, when we're there,launching out as a startup
entrepreneur and inevitably,invariably finding ourself way
out of our depth, and it'sparticularly problematic because
it feels like you're completelyalone. It feels like I must be

(01:07):
the only one who feels this way.I must be crazy, because
everybody else has got itfigured out, and that's simply
not the case. There's notsomething wrong with you. It's
just a skill and a I can't usethe word. We'll get to that in a
moment. But this is somethingthat we can solve, and here to
help us solve for it, to setthings straight and help us to

(01:28):
make friends with our imposteris Daphne Dickopf, who owns a
consulting, coaching andtraining company and is an ICF
certified executive coach,facilitator and trainer. She
specializes in individual, teamand organizational development.
Her background in internationalproject management and her own
leadership experience underpinher belief in every person's

(01:50):
innate ability to find the bestsolutions and chart their path.
She holds a bachelor's degree ininternational marketing from the
regents business school inLondon, and a dual Masters in
Business Administration fromESSEC business school in Paris,
France, and the Mannheimbusiness school in Germany.
She's also the author of thebrand new book make friends with

(02:13):
your imposter, which, to myknowledge, is the most
comprehensive guide toovercoming the imposter cycle
and setting yourself free to doyour best work. Well, Daphne,
welcome to the show. Veryexcited to have you here. First
question right out of the gate.It jumped off the page at me as
I was reading through your book,and has haunted me ever since,

(02:33):
because there's a phrase thatyou don't like that I use all
the time, or, let's say, usedall the time. So the phrase is
imposter syndrome. What's wrongwith that phrase and what's a
better way for us to think aboutit?

Daphne Dickopf (02:46):
Well, thanks for having me, Scott and the lovely
introduction. I just don't likethe phrase because it just
suggests it's something medical.It's a diagnosis that we cannot
get rid of, and it was justcoined that way, and it's
actually not something medical.That's why I like to call it the
imposter phenomenon, or theimposter feelings, or the

(03:09):
imposter journey, or theimposter experience, because
it's something very subjective,and it's not objectively that
there's something wrong with us.So yeah, instead of saying, you
know, you have a syndrome andsomething is wrong with you,
it's something that many of usdeal with. As you just said,
most entrepreneurs at manystages of their of their cycle,

(03:34):
probably, and so yeah, let's notcall it a syndrome when it's
not.

Scott Ritzheimer (03:38):
Yeah. So there's a common misperception,
and I think it may even you knowbetter than me, but it may stem
from some of the early researchthat this is something that
affects women a lot more thanmen. But from my understanding,
that's not true. Is thissomething that affects all of
us?

Daphne Dickopf (03:52):
It does. I mean, the original research that was
done by Dr Pauline rose clanswas focusing on a group of women
in academia. But ever sincethen, and I've coached tons of
executive men who come withthis, they might not call it
initially imposter, but theymight call it self doubts. They

(04:13):
might say, I don't feel so 100%sure this time, right? And so
yes, it in research. Now we knowit's probably about even.
There's some groups minoritiesthat feel a little bit more
strongly than others, but youcould probably, pretty much say
it happens to everyone at leastonce in their life. I think

(04:35):
we're, we're about to 80 to 89%of us have it at least once in
our lives.

Scott Ritzheimer (04:41):
Well, well, I know it's certainly something
that I've struggled with atvarious stages through my
journey as a founder. But one ofthe things that struck me,
especially as a coach now andbeing invited into other folks'
stories, is to some extent, howdifferently it shows up for
different people. So. So youmentioned this. Some folks may

(05:02):
not even think to call itimposter syndrome, or may not
even know what imposter syndromeis or imposter phenomenon. See,
I did it again. But so just in anutshell, what are we looking
for? What's it look like when itshows up in our world,
particularly for entrepreneursand founders?

Daphne Dickopf (05:19):
Yeah, I love that you're bringing this to
this. You know, it's a spectrum,almost, right? You. There are
people who just have veryunrealistic, high targets and
expectations of themselves, sothey can never 100% deliver on
those expectations. Then there'sothers who just, I always want
to learn more, and then theyknow I'm never going to be the
expert, because there's alwaysnor more to learn. Some who

(05:42):
think they have to go it allalone, right? Unless you can do
everything all the time byyourself, you're not good
enough. And then there's theexpectation sometimes also just
be superhuman, like you got todo it. You always need to handle
it. You can never show avulnerability. You can never
suffer, and you can never oncejust not do it right. And so

(06:04):
sometimes it's not not beinggood enough. Sometimes it's
always going the extra milesomewhere. Sometimes it's always
being clever, more clever andmore intelligent than others.
Sometimes it's being the expertin everything and doing it all
alone. And so it shows up indifferent variants from people.

Scott Ritzheimer (06:22):
It's so easy, especially with that
explanation, to see why it playssuch a big role in our
entrepreneurial journey.Because, again, if you're a
solopreneur, if you're you'restarting something out, so much
of it rides on you. It can feellike you have to be superhuman
you you literally have to doeverything within the context of
your business. That's notactually true, but it feels that
way. And the other place thatI've found it show up is kind of

(06:48):
in in the early phase of each ofour stages. So there's some kind
of big shift. We enter a newstage. It needs new skills.
We're working with new people,and for some reason, it just
pops up again. Why is that?

Daphne Dickopf (07:02):
Yeah, it's and there's actually, we call them
mechanisms, coping mechanisms,that help the imposter survive,
and us being small. And it'sthings like, you know,
procrastinating, like not notstarting when you're doing
something new, like you gotta,as you said, you have new
skills. And then that's whereit's daunting. Whenever we get

(07:23):
to a point where it's not sofamiliar, it's not common ground
anymore, it's not easy, but itgets a bit difficult. That's
when the imposter voices show upand drive you nuts.

Scott Ritzheimer (07:36):
Yeah, and it's when you can least afford it,
like when you need the mostconfidence to take that next
step, it seems to be where itjumps up the most. So there were
a couple of areas in the bookthat I found were really, really
helpful for me in understandingwhat's going on. Like, what does
this look like, structurally?And so there were, I believe,

(07:59):
what you called foundationalblocks to break the cycle, and
the first one was the trigger.What's going on with the
trigger? What are some commontriggers for entrepreneurs or
founders just starting out?

Daphne Dickopf (08:13):
Yeah, so, so triggers are, whenever we hear
it or see it, we go into, Oh,I'm not good enough, or I need
to do more. I'm not the expertyet. And with many
entrepreneurs, I see that theysee someone else on social media
or on a conference who'spresented differently and
presented maybe as if they arealready a big shot or have made

(08:38):
it, and immediately the mindgoes, Oh, I'm not there yet. I'm
not as famous as that person. Ihave not that many clients lined
up. I cannot do it. I will notsucceed as an entrepreneur.
Yeah, that's a common one.

Scott Ritzheimer (08:53):
Yeah, it's it's fascinating, because I'm
not a huge social media person.I'm actually a certified social
media dinosaur, but I did findmyself. I found it was
particularly destructive in thatstage for me, where I was seeing
folks who were further down theroad. It's like, that's just not
even remotely helpfulcomparison. And I'm not prone to

(09:15):
comparison, but I found myselfdoing it all the time in that
stage. And so what do we do whenwe feel that, when we see that,
when it just kind of cuts us tothe core, how do we start to
turn the cycle around?

Daphne Dickopf (09:28):
Basically, first thing is really to become aware,
right? Notice when you havethose triggers, become aware.
Hey, this is what's going on.I've had this before. This looks
similar to what I've seenbefore. And then learn to
intervene. That might be anexample of social media. Just
don't follow these people.Follow people who give you more

(09:48):
positive lives. It might be witha self talk. Oh, self talk is
happening again. I don't feelworth it. Let me take a break.
Do something that gives mepowerful energy. Can be anything
from. Music, doing jumpingjacks, whatever gets you that
all right, I got this, talkingto a friend, you know, talking
with your mentor, and then toactually change the path of your

(10:11):
normal behavior. Of the triggeris here. That's what I usually
go to, and that's when I go intomy downward cycle of, oh, I'm
not there. I have these imposterfeelings to No, no, I can turn
this around. I know that's whatgrowth is, right? It's where
growth happens. When it getsuncomfortable.

Scott Ritzheimer (10:28):
How important, or maybe even just helpful, is
it to bring somebody else intothat cycle, to share with a
friend or a mentor or a coach?

Daphne Dickopf (10:38):
Yeah, immensely. So in my book, I sort of lay out
the imposter strategy framework,which has four quadrants, and
one of the quadrants is yoursupport network. And that can be
mentors. It can be anaccountability partner. It can
be just friends that you'resharing things with. Once you

(10:59):
talk about it. You sort of takethe fear and the power out of
it. It's like, oh, and peoplewill most definitely tell you,
Oh yeah, I've been there. Ohyeah, I've seen that. And you're
like, Wow, I'm not the only one.This is weird. They understand
this. I thought I was the oddone out.

Scott Ritzheimer (11:15):
Yeah, it's it's really cool, because I owe
a significant amount of my secand my success. And I won't tell
him this, because it would givehim a big head, but I think it
was episode four, somewhere inthe first couple episodes, I had
my coach on. His name's RobertMallon. And the thing that I
love about Robert, and the thingthat he did that really carried

(11:37):
me through those early days washe believed in me more than I
believed in me. And so eventhough we didn't meet every day
or something like that, when wedid meet, there was this I just
knew that I'd come out of itfeeling more confident than I
went in. And it was, it was sohelpful, because he did for me
what I couldn't do for me inthat stage. And I owe him a huge
gratitude for that.

Daphne Dickopf (11:58):
That's amazing, and I see that often, when
others believe in you and theycan see it, because you cannot
see it, you're not going tobelieve it. But once you turn it
around and say, All right, theysee it. Let me just write their
confidence, that wave ofconfidence for a while, until I
can see it myself, and I canfeel as confident, hugely

(12:20):
powerful.

Scott Ritzheimer (12:20):
Yeah, it's worth pursuing if you don't have
it, and I don't, maybe everyonecan have it. Maybe everyone
can't, I don't know, but one ofthe things that I do know is
there's a lot of voices who arenot building you up at this
stage, right, and for all kindsof different reasons. And I
would say most of them probablyjust because they care about
you, like, starting your ownenterprise has, like, just

(12:41):
almost guaranteed to fail,right? Like, it's just the odds
are so bad that anyone who lovesyou rightfully should try and
talk you out of it, but that canblend into looking like they
don't believe in you, or feelinglike they don't believe in you,
and so having that person inyour corner, who's you, who has
a bigger view of you than youdo, I think, is a huge, a huge
help. So that's one of thesefour quadrants support, and

(13:04):
that's just one example ofsupport. What are these other
quadrants we can use to makefriends with our imposter?

Daphne Dickopf (13:12):
Yeah. So I, you know, I came up with that matrix
because, as a ex managementconsultant, I love matrices, and
I just realized, with all theresearch I did and all the
clients work that I've done,there is something about the
long term and short term focusof imposter phenomenon. There's

(13:33):
things that you have to do rightnow and here, because it's
actually happening and it'simpacting you. You're feeling it
now. And there's some long termthings where you just, you've
got to be prepared. And thenthere's also things that you've
got to do internally with you,for you. And there's things
like, as we said, it's a supportnetwork externally. So let's, I

(13:53):
was just going to say, we haveshort, short term focus internal
on me. Those are first eightproblems, solutions. I mean,
where you're like, You snap outof it because you do, like a
breather or because you're justfact checking, right? There's
things you do internally foryourself, and you know it's
going to work within theseconds, yeah. And there's

(14:15):
things internally that you dothat are working long term.
That's what I call resilience.You're just setting yourself up
for example, you're keeping alist of all your failures, of
all your learnings from thefailures, your journaling about
how the successes that you had.You know what path you went on
for them, or what kind ofcompliments you've gotten. And

(14:36):
you just make a depository ofthings that can help you in
times of doubt. And in the sameway, in the the external
version, you need the supportnetwork, short term friends,
family members, accountabilitypartner, mentors. You can call

(14:56):
coaches that you can call youcan have. And tell you what,
what you're supposed to do whenyou're not feeling good. But you
also got to have this long term,what I call vision. You got to
have tools, goals in place,where you know, hey, that's
where I want to go. This is whyI'm doing this. This is my why.
These are it's my long termlearning. Of course, they're

(15:17):
going to be setbacks, and whenyou know that it's so much
easier that everything elsefalls in place.

Scott Ritzheimer (15:23):
Yeah. Daphne, there's a question that I ask
come I guess I'm very interestedto see what you would have to
say. And the question is this,what would you say is the
biggest secret that you wishwasn't a secret at all? What's
that one thing you wisheverybody watching or listening
today knew?

Daphne Dickopf (15:38):
Yeah, almost everybody feels like they're an
imposter at times, and mostpeople think they're the only
one.

Scott Ritzheimer (15:45):
Yeah, yeah. There is in your book, I think,
something like 40 differenttools that folks can use to over
overcome this cycle in theirlife. Where can folks find the
book? Where can they find moreabout the work that you do?

Daphne Dickopf (16:02):
Yeah, make friends with your imposter. Is
basically available on allcommon bookshops in this world.
But you can also find the linkto it or more information on my
website, which is www Daphne.That is D, A, P, H, N, E,
Dickopf, D, I, C, K, O, P,f.com, and I have the links
there as well, but yes, it'savailable in all known bookshops

(16:26):
in this world.

Scott Ritzheimer (16:27):
Excellent, fantastic. Well, I highly
recommend it for anyonelistening who's felt the pain of
and sometimes debilitating painof the imposter cycle. And it's
a tremendous resource that youcan start to implement
immediately, super practical. Iwas really practical. I was
really impressed by that, andhighly recommend it. Well.
Daphne, thanks for being on theshow. It was really a privilege

(16:49):
and honor having you here withus today. And for those of you,
yes, for those of you watchingand listening, you know your
time and attention mean theworld to us, I hope you got as
much out of this conversation asI know I did, and I cannot wait
to see you next time take care.