July 29, 2025 • 26 mins
AI is replacing entry-level jobs—and most grads are stuck in resume purgatory. In this episode, David and Chris break down why your early 20s are the best time to start a business, even if you have no money, no idea, and no experience. This isn’t a hype fest—it’s a practical playbook for launching fast, learning fast, and building something real.
PODCAST LINKS
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SOCIAL
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Chapters
00:00 – Intro: Can Grads Even Get Hired?
03:10 – AI's Impact on Entry-Level Roles
06:25 – Why Early 20s Is the Best Time to Start
09:40 – Chris’s Post-Dot-Com Startup Story
12:20 – Step-by-Step: From Skills to First Customer
15:35 – Product or Service? Start With Services
18:50 – Validation, Revenue, and Profit Early
22:10 – Final Thoughts: Starting From Scratch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
But a lot of it was like AI proficiency, understanding a
wide range of whatever. But they're like, look, if
you've gone out there and you'vejust tried, you've tried to
build a side hustle, you have anecommerce store or you still
hold a couple of things like if you get the ecosystem, it
doesn't matter what your education is, you are very
compelling. Human ideas also smart dream.
(00:20):
So why turn that grinding through a?
Joy Ride, I wanna hit you with something here.
Hey Hitman. Alright, I want you to put
yourselves in the shoes of a newgraduate.
Myselves. You just, you're Dave, who just
graduated with a fancy schmancy degree in history.
(00:41):
OK, it's. Accurate, but I don't like.
It OK, now I'm going to and you're, you're graduating in the
spring of 2025, which is the eraof AI in Judgment Day.
You know, actually Terminator 2 is on TV the other day.
Oh yeah. And I just happened to like, you
know, I I barely like who like goes through different channels
(01:02):
right away. So I saw it on like watch this
for minute and it was right at the scene Movie Come with me if
you want to live, you know, it'slike.
Oh yeah, I was so pumped. I got that anyway, alright, so
bottom line is your new grad andyour back is against the wall,
right? Because AI is coming after all
those entry level jobs. So you know these numbers as
(01:23):
well as I do. I'll give you, I'll just throw
out a couple of numbers. You want to get your hot take so
hot take. Big Tech reduced their new
graduate hiring by 25%. 20. Four.
Wow. 23, Yeah. That was last year, Yeah.
Wow, it's probably worse. Than my God, yeah, yeah, AI
could replace 53% of market research analyst tasks and 67
(01:45):
oh, percent of sales representative tasks.
SDR. 40% of employers expect to reduce workforce due to AI
automation. 77% of AI jobs require a masters degree and 18%
require a doctoral degree. So if you wanna work.
How? How big was that 77?
Percent 7% What's AI jobs require a masters degree as a
(02:07):
minimum and 18% require a doctoral degree.
So if you wanna be making the AI, you've got to have a ton of
letters after your name. Oh OK I misunderstood that, I
thought AI was taking 77% of jobs were required you to have a
masters degree to be in that jobbut I suppose.
That could also be. Yeah, but in AI specifically?
(02:28):
Right, if you're gonna work for an AI company, you probably need
that makes more sense. OK.
And then, but on on the good side, 24% of entrepreneurs
actually have a college degree or equivalent.
OK, So formal education isn't required to go and become an
entrepreneur. OK, So I like this topic because
(02:49):
this was me on the previous version of Yeah, we talked about
market disruption. We have talked about this, but
just to recap for viewers who are just tuning in.
So I, I graduated from computer science 2002 is right after
the.com bust two years previous.Like IBM, they're willing to
give U.S. jobs, move us to the big city, those apartments like
the whole world here, the big show money at
(03:10):
usandtwoyearslater.com bust happens.
All the big companies like let go big chunks of their
workforce. There's a ton of people out
there with many years of experience that we're now
competing with. So all of us entry level people
like forget. The same problem.
Now. Yeah, exactly.
So yours truly starts a softwarecompany, OK?
And good thing you did, actually.
Yeah, it was great for me. Yeah.
So, so, you know, and I had someadvantages, which I think still
(03:34):
exists today even maybe even more so.
So you know when you think so ifyou're a new grad, OK, you're
used to eating Mac and cheese like you're used to living
cheap. You don't spend money.
You are very disciplined. You're.
Probably not very leveraged either, like you probably don't
have our mortgage or car. No mortgage, no kids.
You can probably live at home, yeah.
(03:56):
If you're, if you're like in like I know a lot of people live
at home now after school. Like it's way more common than
it used to be even 10. Years.
Well, I had to back in 2002 and like, gulp, that was swallowing
my pride and having to say, oh gosh, like I don't have enough
cash to yeah, to scrape together.
I did. To my credit, though, I did pay
(04:16):
my way through university. So I worked through university
and paid all my living expenses and stuff like that.
Like I wasn't. Like humble brag no.
No, but I, I, I don't know if mypride when it comes to that kind
of stuff, I didn't really want our parents like, you know.
Yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever.
Yeah, yeah. So, so you know, and, and you
know, when you're young, you kind of have low like lifestyle
(04:39):
expectations. Like I, I wasn't expecting to go
on a vacation every year or anything like that, right.
Sure. Yeah.
I wasn't expecting to have a fancy car.
Where you go on a family vacation, I guess, yeah.
Yeah, I'd be just happy to hang out with some buddies or hang
with you. Yeah, you know.
What? I will probably like 14, Yeah,
when you do, when you're back athome, something like that.
Yeah. So I probably play video games,
if you totally honest with you. Yeah, you probably wanted to do
(05:01):
stuff and I just didn't. But anyway, OK.
Yeah, so then and then the otherthing too is like, you know what
better time to do it? Like, you know, you can be risk
tolerant when you're, you know, like 22, whereas like you have
a, you try to start a business, you throw everything you have at
it at 35 and you fail. That could be devastating.
Yeah. Like you're probably never
trying to start a business again.
(05:26):
Oh didn't see you there. I'm just reading Startup
Different, my book to help you get to your multi $1,000,000
business. You can find it on Amazon,
Audible, and Kindle. You're just gonna.
Fails, yeah. Go back to like career path and
play that game instead. So the argument here I'm trying
to make is that, hey, what a great time to start a business
(05:49):
if you cannot find a job. And, you know, I was not, I
didn't think of myself as an entrepreneur when I was going
through university. I thought I get a job at a big
software company or something like that and play that game.
And it was sort of like thrust into this entrepreneurship role.
And then it ended up really loving it.
OK. Yeah.
And got to the point within a couple of years.
I'm like, I'm never going back. I'm never working for somebody
(06:10):
until of course we were requiredand we had to work for.
Big companies told you that before.
Big, glorious. 14 months, yeah, yeah.
Which was a shock to to see how that all works.
But so anyway, so that's kind ofmy pitch today.
And I know, you know, some cousins and things like that who
are graduating soon and are in that kind of situation.
So what's your hot take on what a new grad?
(06:33):
Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
Should they just fight it out and try and get that job that
that, even though it's a very scarce commodity out there right
now? Or how do you think young people
should be? Tough call.
So what I would say on the for. So I agree with the spirit of
what you're saying. First off, that it is a good
time to try. Yeah, I think it's a good time
to do it. You have all these tools that
(06:54):
can make you act as if you are asmall company.
So that's pretty cool just to begin with.
I think it can be. There is a it is a busier in a
weird way, like a busier entrepreneurship landscape,
though, right now, like I'm justthinking about by companies like
there's they're diamond doesn't and a whole bunch of gonna fail,
right. But maybe there's still money to
be had there. Even if it doesn't work out for
(07:14):
you longer term, Maybe there's money that you can make, you
know, make like 1,000,000 bucks over a couple of years.
There's nothing wrong with that.You know what I mean?
So even if it doesn't work out longer term, So I guess like the
first piece would be like, yes, this is a good time to try.
However, you know, Barry Nelba said something to us once, which
is not everyone should be an entrepreneur.
Yeah, OK. And I've kind of struggled with
(07:36):
this calling cause I think I'm an optimist and I believe in
people and, and I think that youcan do it.
Like I think anyone can do it. Even if they don't believe
they're particularly entrepreneurial, right?
They can, they can get into it, they can make something happen.
They probably have a set of skills.
A lot of the time. I think going back to sort of
like those fear barrier questions we had before, there's
always self doubt. Yeah.
Out of fear of like putting yourself out there, which you
(07:56):
must do as an entrepreneur. Yeah.
So there's that. So I don't think everyone's
supposed to do it. So let let let me just go here
for like before, I just, if I may just keep talking over you.
So the in the in the context of somebody trying to get a job, I
think it's going to be real hard.
I think that you need to focus on the things that AI will
(08:17):
always suck at. OK, which human interaction?
Alright, I think that whatever your job is, you need to do it
in such a way that the human element is sort of like required
in that role. Like I think it's a, you
mentioned sales roles, some sales roles, yeah, I could see
those going away. The SDR, the really low level
(08:38):
stuff, which necessarily means that maybe there be other
opportunities for account executives and stuff like that
could also mean that people who are more experienced that got
fired from SDR roles are going to try and move into those roles
as well, right? Be very competitive.
Yeah. But I think those are kind of
like you need to peg opportunities where you are,
(08:58):
where it values the human to human interaction.
I'll give an example really quickly.
You know, we know the good guys that has track a company that
we've we've worked with on occasion.
And you know, I know Zach's out there making deals in person.
He's going, he's taking people out to dinner, right.
You know, we don't have AI robots yet taking us out.
(09:18):
He's using AI tools. Yeah, of course.
Yeah, but he's not doing. The OHS sorry, base assumption
you must use AI tools any role you're doing yeah, you must.
And you were gonna use more thanone yeah, you.
And if you're not doing that now, start start getting used to
it. This is absolutely potential,
whatever role you take. On yeah, yeah.
So what I wanted to do is kind of come up with like a bit of a
(09:38):
game plan. So you're you're a new grad.
How do I actually action this? Become an entrepreneur Like, OK,
I got I got my degree. I got nothing else.
You have an idea. Well, so the first thing I think
you got to ask. Yourself for an idea.
So I think what you gotta ask yourself is what can you
actually do? OK, So like OK, so I don't know
(10:02):
like. Well, some people I would say,
yeah, you're right, but I would say some young people don't
know, right. So if you don't know, I guess
like the pre step 0 here would be if you don't know what you
can do, start doing lots of stuff, try different things,
whether that involves you volunteering your time, whether
that involves you, I don't I don't even know man.
Like to doing weird stuff on theweekends or whatever.
(10:25):
You doing after you graduated? I worked odd jobs, actually, I
ran like the newspaper. I, you know, I worked, I worked
in the student government. I mean, I did that because my
girlfriend at the time was there, you know, so that that
was a big reason why I hung out as well.
But it also like I did get exposure to a whole bunch of
different things. And one of those meetings
happened to be the one that actually led to the there's like
(10:47):
the genesis of Apparmor, right? Right.
So those are kind of like your. Like skills, things that.
You could do. You could talk.
You could go out and sell ads for the newspaper, or you could
do you know the and for what? It's worth newspapers were also
disappearing back then. I'm not that old.
Like, they were like they were on their way.
So it was a hard sell. We were bundling print ads with
web ads. And that was like, you know, a
(11:09):
revolution and the way that shopwas.
Done. So.
So that's kind of like you're like technical.
OK ish so wait a minute episode about like what Dave would do as
a. Company still just kind of
walking through you as you as a case study OK so I.
Would love to be able to see your phone right now to see what
other notes you. Have no, I got lots.
Yeah, yeah. So the other thing I think you
can ask yourself is what are youlike?
(11:29):
Passionate about what? Do you say what you proclaimed
Huguenot? I don't know what that means.
What is that by the way? It's a religious order.
Ohsa Huguenot. It's a French Protestant.
Some Family Guy. Reference.
That is a Family Guy, Peter Griffin self-described.
Everybody. Got that reference.
Give us a like on this episode. Let's go.
(11:53):
So going back to it, so like. What do you do?
It's good that Tom Tucker also doesn't know what it means.
Anyways, sorry, what are you? So when when you're thinking
about yourself as well, what arethe like passion things that you
do? So I thought about myself, like
I really like windsurfing. I'm not really that good at it,
but I really like Windsor. You're pretty good at.
It and I was like, if I graduated and I didn't have
(12:13):
anything to do for a summer, maybe I could just take my
windsurfing gear, put some ads on like Facebook, go to the like
local park and use my gear. And just like it's all lessons
to show people how, how to windsurf on windy days.
You know, probably not gonna make a lot of money at it maybe,
but at least I'm doing somethingand I'm, I'm learning how to
interact with people. I'm getting some sense of like
(12:35):
finance. There's like the value of
momentum, OK, Like where you want to be in business.
It's really hard to be outside of everything, trying to think
of ideas when you're not being exposed regularly to problems
like the the entrepreneurs see problems everywhere and they
want to solve them. That's what makes you an
entrepreneur when you act on it.And I think that would be a good
(12:57):
advice for that is like, yeah, that's a good thing you're good
at and you're getting you're into something.
Right, right. Yeah.
So I wanna put out there the idea to of, you know, I think
having like a first customer is a really big deal, OK.
When I think about everything we've ever done, we've had a
first customer like working withus before we really had a
(13:19):
product. Right, even like we we had like
1 customer one. No shit.
Yeah, but. You mean the customer willing to
work with you early? Yes, like the customer that kind
of believes in you even when youdon't have a fully fleshed out
product. Yes, OK, early adopter.
Exactly. Yeah.
So I think like if I was doing that windsurfing, I need to know
like one person that is interested in learning
(13:40):
windsurfing and and willing to pay for it.
OK. And I think.
You could find. That and then and then I can
kind of get some momentum and I can like work with that person
and say like alright here's how I'm thinking of you know I'm
going to use AI to help me figure out how to teach how to
windsurf and I'm going to come up with like a Lesson plan and
stuff like that gonna like test it out with that first client
they're gonna know that they're the first client and that
they're kind of the Guinea pig on it they're cool with that
(14:02):
right so you're gonna find that like first customer that has a
comfort level with you then you.Necessarily, you would charge
them less because you're they're.
Taking them a good gamble on. I would definitely say don't do
it for free because no, don't doit for free.
You need to get some money transacting.
So that you're the best. Remember Anthony?
Monica said. You know your worst case is you
can always just give their moneyback, right?
(14:23):
Think about this all the time. No free trials, just get your
money back I think. That's a good way to do it.
Absolutely, Absolutely. OK, So with that in mind, we on
this, we were obviously in like,cause I was a software
developer, we were typically like a product business, OK.
But when I think about it, when I actually first started, I was
also doing a lot of services as well.
(14:45):
I was helping people with like websites and weird things.
Just being out there where I waslike selling hours, not selling
the products. OK.
But there's something to be saidabout transitioning from a
services business, like do a services business first because
it's easier to start and then transition to a product
business. Yes.
(15:06):
So I see there's lots of opportunities for people who
just wanna like, as you know, I'm, I've got a cottage now and
I've had to hire a lot of companies to do stuff and I've
found a lot of them are really disorganized and some are good,
but but a lot of them are reallydisorganized and not very
efficient. And I feel like there's tons of
opportunities to displace existing service based
(15:29):
businesses just by doing the service more efficiently using
AI, using scheduling, online payments like.
Reliability, I think in the context that you're talking
about, like, we'll be there whenwe're gonna be there.
We're gonna do the thing. We're going on the day we say
we're gonna do the thing. Like all those things that are
annoying about contractors. Definitely.
If you're a good contractor, people like you are really
valuable. Oh, yeah, Because you're unheard
(15:49):
of. You're like, you're such an
exception to the rule. Yeah, no offence.
Their contractors, you know, like, you know, physical labour
contractors watch today, but a lot of the people in that market
are not reliable. Not reliable.
They don't. They'll tell you whatever you
wanna hear, and then they actually come whenever they feel
like. It that kind of, I have two
thoughts on that just really quick.
So on the service, like converting from service to
product is a very common thing, right?
(16:09):
And I think of 2 examples. One is, do you recall Bryce
telling us about those students at Miguel who were making like
500 grand on the side? Just doing AI consulting.
Doing this is so ridiculous. Yeah, going into companies and
just showing them how to use AI tools.
Now that business is probably either it's probably more
competitive now I gotta imagine or potentially as evaporated or
(16:30):
maybe they're great, but they were you can see they're making
their way into. So for them, perfect.
Like you start off yeah, I consultants and then OHT hey, we
should build our own AI tools orhey, we found a client that we
do a lot of work for and we're going to build a product for
them and then we're going to go and then market that to other
people. But it started as services and
it brings up as. A lot of companies do that and I
(16:52):
find also too, they, they at first as you're trying to figure
out what you going to do as a service business, you offer a
lot of services. Yeah.
Eventually you start narrowing it down to things actually make
money and then you make a product out of those things that
make money. That's a very good approach.
Just second thing there, a lot of companies have internal
tools, yeah, that they create a product for Slack, OK, becomes.
External things. So, you know, the other thing
(17:12):
too is it's not a waste of time to work on internal processes if
some of those proceeds can couldpotentially be marketed later.
I mean, it's not a waste of timeperiod, but it can also be very
lucrative to do take something that is internal facing and
potentially make it external. Yeah, as a as a standalone.
Product, absolutely. Slack was like a a dating
platform. Like it was like.
A really different idea and its first iteration and then.
(17:35):
Yeah. And man, that guy's gonna drive
me nuts He had another company that was exactly like this too.
It was an internal tool. Yeah.
There's supposed to be a video game, I think.
OK. And then it became something
else, like totally different. That might have been Slack
store, I can't remember. But like there's something
really, really different. Pivot 1000 pivots.
They make this internal tool as they're trying to get this other
thing off the ground. They sell the internal tool.
(17:57):
Billionaires. So but.
That's how it works. It's like 5 steps.
The the code base for our App Armor product, like the the
early days of it, was like a used book selling app.
Right, that's. Right.
Yeah. And those like, you know, like
not a lot of that code, none of that code really translated
over, but those skills did translate over to what we were
building with app Armor. So yeah, no, absolutely.
(18:20):
It can start off as one thing and then pivot to something
else. So the other piece to this like
formula of like starting your own business, I think you gotta
really focus on the show me the money part, OK?
There's gotta be money transacting.
You've got to do some sort of actual analysis on like, hey,
can I cover my cost? Can there be profit?
At the end of the day, we're bigon not going down the funding
(18:42):
route, which if you're starting a services business, I don't
think you're going to get it anyways.
Like no way that's going to happen.
It's just not going to quite right.
But if you can figure out, hey, here are my like actual costs,
I'm gonna live super cheap. You know, I'm probably not
paying myself a ton at this point, but you know, with the
the long game in mind that I canget this to a point where it
(19:04):
will be successful over the longhaul and know what that market
sizing looks like, know what that that cost base looks like
and know what your revenue potential.
Is I think I 100% agree. I also think though, you have to
consider the the the long play here too, right?
And it's how long are you willing to be at this and take
whatever your estimate is and double it at least.
(19:25):
You know, it takes a long time to do these things.
Yeah. And but and just getting back to
this, like time of relative low risk in your life.
So you're 22. You try and do this takes you 4
years. You make some money, but it
doesn't really get you where youwant to be.
Like, So what, you get to your 26 now.
Yeah, you've learned some stuff and you can just keep trying to
(19:47):
figure it out from there. Like the worst get you, you have
risked very little because you started at a position of almost
nothing. Yeah, so like, alright, so when
you think about your skill sets,like I just wanna put a few
ideas out there for people to, for me of no, just like anybody,
but yeah. So like obviously like digital
services are big. So like doing websites, helping
(20:07):
people with social media management, content creation,
that kind of stuff. There's lots of opportunities
there. People are trying to do that
sort of stuff and need help doing it.
Uh, things like local services like tutoring, OK, you're, you
got a math degree and you can gotutor.
Kids Or you can spend the summerand do a math camp for kids or
things like that. You know, that's a great way.
(20:27):
It's a services business, but hey, there's probably.
Gonna be solidly in the side hustle category.
Yeah, that's fine though. Pet sitting home organization,
like tech support. You know, I could have easily
gone out and help people with their computers.
You would have hated that, I think.
I think the one thing here I canfix two things that you wanna do
right? Like, I get that you sometimes
you have to do a job or take a job or work for your, and even
(20:51):
in your startup, you'll take on things that you might not always
be wild about. Yeah, because you gotta do it
for the money. But if you can, try to find that
intersection of things you enjoy, things you're good at,
and things that are worthwhile. Doing yeah yeah I was thinking
about you too actually like one of your passion projects is you
like making sourdough bread I. Do you know?
I was gonna say that. What if What if young?
(21:12):
What if young? Dave decides, hey, I'm gonna see
if I can make a little business.You know what I would do?
Local sourdough bread? No.
You know what I would do, but I know you might laugh at me, but
I I think a lot of people would watch that on YouTube.
Really. Yeah, I think if like I had done
it when I first started doing it, if I had put those up on
YouTube, I started making sourdough bread in like 2016 and
I would have absolutely fucking killed it during the pandemic
(21:36):
when everybody was trying to make.
Sourdough bread, yeah. And so I've passed on what was
probably a very lucrative opportunity.
So anyway, what do you do? So obviously, you know, these
are like kind of like low barriers to entry, but also like
low barriers to exit. So like, you know, hey, you're a
sourdough bread make bread making business isn't going so
(21:57):
well. You just stop selling it, right?
You do something else, right? Yeah, but it's like a really
good, especially if you're youngand you're living at home and
you got time to spare. Like now is a great time to
start a business and start to understand, hey, what does it
take? Because the process of like,
let's use the sourdough bread idea, you know, you're going to
have to set up some sort of payment platform to receive
payments. You're going to have to deal
(22:18):
with customers you're. Gonna have a lot of experience.
They're gonna have to go and try.
And do something actually, incidentally, I, I was on a
panel a few weeks ago, yeah, about a month ago where I was
sitting next to somebody who works at Google.
And they were fantastic. They're very interesting.
And they were talking about whatthey get millions of applicants
a year for Google, OK, for all kinds of roles.
(22:39):
And they were like, what do you like look for?
And especially in this age of AIstuff, and a lot of it was like
AI proficiency, understanding a wide range and whatever.
But they're like, look, if you've gone out there and you've
just tried it, if you've tried to build a side, Russell, yeah,
you have an ecommerce store or you still hold a couple of
things, like if you get the ecosystem, it doesn't matter
what your education is, you are a very compelling candidate,
(23:00):
right? And I thought that was pretty
interesting. I was like, OK, so I don't think
people should perceive like a failed business, which could
possibly happen as like wasted time, like quite often, like
aside from making money, that experience in and of itself is
super valuable. That will probably lead to your
next. Opportunity.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I, if I just kind of
summarize this, I've kind of gotsome like action, action steps
(23:24):
that you need to take if you're trying to do it implement this.
So, so let me recap. So first one is kind of skills
audit. So audit your skills.
What can you do? What are you into, what are you
passionate about? What are you good at?
What are you good? At Into music, yeah, I am not.
Good at music I've. Seen the movie The Jerk and he's
trying to clap along. OK, like that's me.
(23:45):
So true, yeah. Second thing is like you gotta
find the problem and then that necessarily is like your first
customer. But I think that comes from
being out there, yeah, as. Well, yeah, you gotta talk to
people, find the problem, then validate it.
So make sure you can make revenue, make sure you can cover
costs. Make sure you can, you can do
(24:06):
all the aspects to, to, to to make it a profitable thing.
We're all big about profit. Not yeah.
Profit early. Profit is validation that your
idea is good and that your business model is sound.
Yeah, if you're not generating profit, even if you're
generating revenue, you've got some problems you've got to
sort. Out, yeah.
Then after that, you launch, youget customer feedback and you
(24:28):
start iterating and it's a pivot, persevere kind of
conversation that you're having at that.
Point and push versus. Is it is this working If it is
great, let's keep pushing if it's not, do we pivot it and do
something else? Yeah, so that's that's really
the the big the big keep away. So and you know, Dave Sardo
bread idea probably isn't going to get a lot of.
(24:50):
If you're interested in orderingsourdough bread, let me know of
of I'll whip you up a pie real quick and send it your way.
It's actually really good, if I may say so myself.
You've had it. Before, you know, it's good,
Yeah, You know, good point here too, is that.
You've got to not acknowledge mybread, Sir.
I love your bread. That's wonderful.
Thank you. Actually, your bagels are the
(25:11):
best, I think. Yeah, but anyways.
New York style. So I I think the biggest risk
isn't starting a business and failing, it's spending like 5
years trying to get a traditional job that may not
exist by the. Time you land and that's all
crashing too, like going on Indeed and you know, saying that
resume out there, getting nothing back and then you're
just back to playing Fortnite. But you know.
(25:32):
What the kids play these days. If you got up and you baked 10
loaves of bread and sold 10 loaves of bread today, you'd
feel pretty good about yourself,you know?
Like like a couple ovens to do that actually be pretty hard to
do. Anyway, whatever is true, yeah,
cool, cool. So.
OK, cool. So a good framework to get it
done? Yeah, give it a shot.
Are you thinking of starting a business?
No. Come on, it'll be pretty cool.
(25:52):
Peace out. Start it up.
Let's get it rolling. Big ideas, Money folding,
hustle, Smart dream. So why turn that grind into a
joy? Ride.
But a lot of it was like AI proficiency, understanding a
wide range of whatever. But they're like, look, if
you've gone out there and you'vejust tried, you've tried to
build a side hustle, you have anecommerce store or you still
hold a couple of things like if you get the ecosystem, it
doesn't matter what your education is, you are very
compelling. Human ideas also smart dream.
(00:20):
So why turn that grinding through a?
Joy Ride, I wanna hit you with something here.
Hey Hitman. Alright, I want you to put
yourselves in the shoes of a newgraduate.
Myselves. You just, you're Dave, who just
graduated with a fancy schmancy degree in history.
(00:41):
OK, it's. Accurate, but I don't like.
It OK, now I'm going to and you're, you're graduating in the
spring of 2025, which is the eraof AI in Judgment Day.
You know, actually Terminator 2 is on TV the other day.
Oh yeah. And I just happened to like, you
know, I I barely like who like goes through different channels
(01:02):
right away. So I saw it on like watch this
for minute and it was right at the scene Movie Come with me if
you want to live, you know, it'slike.
Oh yeah, I was so pumped. I got that anyway, alright, so
bottom line is your new grad andyour back is against the wall,
right? Because AI is coming after all
those entry level jobs. So you know these numbers as
(01:23):
well as I do. I'll give you, I'll just throw
out a couple of numbers. You want to get your hot take so
hot take. Big Tech reduced their new
graduate hiring by 25%. 20. Four.
Wow. 23, Yeah. That was last year, Yeah.
Wow, it's probably worse. Than my God, yeah, yeah, AI
could replace 53% of market research analyst tasks and 67
(01:45):
oh, percent of sales representative tasks.
SDR. 40% of employers expect to reduce workforce due to AI
automation. 77% of AI jobs require a masters degree and 18%
require a doctoral degree. So if you wanna work.
How? How big was that 77?
Percent 7% What's AI jobs require a masters degree as a
(02:07):
minimum and 18% require a doctoral degree.
So if you wanna be making the AI, you've got to have a ton of
letters after your name. Oh OK I misunderstood that, I
thought AI was taking 77% of jobs were required you to have a
masters degree to be in that jobbut I suppose.
That could also be. Yeah, but in AI specifically?
(02:28):
Right, if you're gonna work for an AI company, you probably need
that makes more sense. OK.
And then, but on on the good side, 24% of entrepreneurs
actually have a college degree or equivalent.
OK, So formal education isn't required to go and become an
entrepreneur. OK, So I like this topic because
(02:49):
this was me on the previous version of Yeah, we talked about
market disruption. We have talked about this, but
just to recap for viewers who are just tuning in.
So I, I graduated from computer science 2002 is right after
the.com bust two years previous.Like IBM, they're willing to
give U.S. jobs, move us to the big city, those apartments like
the whole world here, the big show money at
(03:10):
usandtwoyearslater.com bust happens.
All the big companies like let go big chunks of their
workforce. There's a ton of people out
there with many years of experience that we're now
competing with. So all of us entry level people
like forget. The same problem.
Now. Yeah, exactly.
So yours truly starts a softwarecompany, OK?
And good thing you did, actually.
Yeah, it was great for me. Yeah.
So, so, you know, and I had someadvantages, which I think still
(03:34):
exists today even maybe even more so.
So you know when you think so ifyou're a new grad, OK, you're
used to eating Mac and cheese like you're used to living
cheap. You don't spend money.
You are very disciplined. You're.
Probably not very leveraged either, like you probably don't
have our mortgage or car. No mortgage, no kids.
You can probably live at home, yeah.
(03:56):
If you're, if you're like in like I know a lot of people live
at home now after school. Like it's way more common than
it used to be even 10. Years.
Well, I had to back in 2002 and like, gulp, that was swallowing
my pride and having to say, oh gosh, like I don't have enough
cash to yeah, to scrape together.
I did. To my credit, though, I did pay
(04:16):
my way through university. So I worked through university
and paid all my living expenses and stuff like that.
Like I wasn't. Like humble brag no.
No, but I, I, I don't know if mypride when it comes to that kind
of stuff, I didn't really want our parents like, you know.
Yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever.
Yeah, yeah. So, so you know, and, and you
know, when you're young, you kind of have low like lifestyle
(04:39):
expectations. Like I, I wasn't expecting to go
on a vacation every year or anything like that, right.
Sure. Yeah.
I wasn't expecting to have a fancy car.
Where you go on a family vacation, I guess, yeah.
Yeah, I'd be just happy to hang out with some buddies or hang
with you. Yeah, you know.
What? I will probably like 14, Yeah,
when you do, when you're back athome, something like that.
Yeah. So I probably play video games,
if you totally honest with you. Yeah, you probably wanted to do
(05:01):
stuff and I just didn't. But anyway, OK.
Yeah, so then and then the otherthing too is like, you know what
better time to do it? Like, you know, you can be risk
tolerant when you're, you know, like 22, whereas like you have
a, you try to start a business, you throw everything you have at
it at 35 and you fail. That could be devastating.
Yeah. Like you're probably never
trying to start a business again.
(05:26):
Oh didn't see you there. I'm just reading Startup
Different, my book to help you get to your multi $1,000,000
business. You can find it on Amazon,
Audible, and Kindle. You're just gonna.
Fails, yeah. Go back to like career path and
play that game instead. So the argument here I'm trying
to make is that, hey, what a great time to start a business
(05:49):
if you cannot find a job. And, you know, I was not, I
didn't think of myself as an entrepreneur when I was going
through university. I thought I get a job at a big
software company or something like that and play that game.
And it was sort of like thrust into this entrepreneurship role.
And then it ended up really loving it.
OK. Yeah.
And got to the point within a couple of years.
I'm like, I'm never going back. I'm never working for somebody
(06:10):
until of course we were requiredand we had to work for.
Big companies told you that before.
Big, glorious. 14 months, yeah, yeah.
Which was a shock to to see how that all works.
But so anyway, so that's kind ofmy pitch today.
And I know, you know, some cousins and things like that who
are graduating soon and are in that kind of situation.
So what's your hot take on what a new grad?
(06:33):
Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
Should they just fight it out and try and get that job that
that, even though it's a very scarce commodity out there right
now? Or how do you think young people
should be? Tough call.
So what I would say on the for. So I agree with the spirit of
what you're saying. First off, that it is a good
time to try. Yeah, I think it's a good time
to do it. You have all these tools that
(06:54):
can make you act as if you are asmall company.
So that's pretty cool just to begin with.
I think it can be. There is a it is a busier in a
weird way, like a busier entrepreneurship landscape,
though, right now, like I'm justthinking about by companies like
there's they're diamond doesn't and a whole bunch of gonna fail,
right. But maybe there's still money to
be had there. Even if it doesn't work out for
(07:14):
you longer term, Maybe there's money that you can make, you
know, make like 1,000,000 bucks over a couple of years.
There's nothing wrong with that.You know what I mean?
So even if it doesn't work out longer term, So I guess like the
first piece would be like, yes, this is a good time to try.
However, you know, Barry Nelba said something to us once, which
is not everyone should be an entrepreneur.
Yeah, OK. And I've kind of struggled with
(07:36):
this calling cause I think I'm an optimist and I believe in
people and, and I think that youcan do it.
Like I think anyone can do it. Even if they don't believe
they're particularly entrepreneurial, right?
They can, they can get into it, they can make something happen.
They probably have a set of skills.
A lot of the time. I think going back to sort of
like those fear barrier questions we had before, there's
always self doubt. Yeah.
Out of fear of like putting yourself out there, which you
(07:56):
must do as an entrepreneur. Yeah.
So there's that. So I don't think everyone's
supposed to do it. So let let let me just go here
for like before, I just, if I may just keep talking over you.
So the in the in the context of somebody trying to get a job, I
think it's going to be real hard.
I think that you need to focus on the things that AI will
(08:17):
always suck at. OK, which human interaction?
Alright, I think that whatever your job is, you need to do it
in such a way that the human element is sort of like required
in that role. Like I think it's a, you
mentioned sales roles, some sales roles, yeah, I could see
those going away. The SDR, the really low level
(08:38):
stuff, which necessarily means that maybe there be other
opportunities for account executives and stuff like that
could also mean that people who are more experienced that got
fired from SDR roles are going to try and move into those roles
as well, right? Be very competitive.
Yeah. But I think those are kind of
like you need to peg opportunities where you are,
(08:58):
where it values the human to human interaction.
I'll give an example really quickly.
You know, we know the good guys that has track a company that
we've we've worked with on occasion.
And you know, I know Zach's out there making deals in person.
He's going, he's taking people out to dinner, right.
You know, we don't have AI robots yet taking us out.
(09:18):
He's using AI tools. Yeah, of course.
Yeah, but he's not doing. The OHS sorry, base assumption
you must use AI tools any role you're doing yeah, you must.
And you were gonna use more thanone yeah, you.
And if you're not doing that now, start start getting used to
it. This is absolutely potential,
whatever role you take. On yeah, yeah.
So what I wanted to do is kind of come up with like a bit of a
(09:38):
game plan. So you're you're a new grad.
How do I actually action this? Become an entrepreneur Like, OK,
I got I got my degree. I got nothing else.
You have an idea. Well, so the first thing I think
you got to ask. Yourself for an idea.
So I think what you gotta ask yourself is what can you
actually do? OK, So like OK, so I don't know
(10:02):
like. Well, some people I would say,
yeah, you're right, but I would say some young people don't
know, right. So if you don't know, I guess
like the pre step 0 here would be if you don't know what you
can do, start doing lots of stuff, try different things,
whether that involves you volunteering your time, whether
that involves you, I don't I don't even know man.
Like to doing weird stuff on theweekends or whatever.
(10:25):
You doing after you graduated? I worked odd jobs, actually, I
ran like the newspaper. I, you know, I worked, I worked
in the student government. I mean, I did that because my
girlfriend at the time was there, you know, so that that
was a big reason why I hung out as well.
But it also like I did get exposure to a whole bunch of
different things. And one of those meetings
happened to be the one that actually led to the there's like
(10:47):
the genesis of Apparmor, right? Right.
So those are kind of like your. Like skills, things that.
You could do. You could talk.
You could go out and sell ads for the newspaper, or you could
do you know the and for what? It's worth newspapers were also
disappearing back then. I'm not that old.
Like, they were like they were on their way.
So it was a hard sell. We were bundling print ads with
web ads. And that was like, you know, a
(11:09):
revolution and the way that shopwas.
Done. So.
So that's kind of like you're like technical.
OK ish so wait a minute episode about like what Dave would do as
a. Company still just kind of
walking through you as you as a case study OK so I.
Would love to be able to see your phone right now to see what
other notes you. Have no, I got lots.
Yeah, yeah. So the other thing I think you
can ask yourself is what are youlike?
(11:29):
Passionate about what? Do you say what you proclaimed
Huguenot? I don't know what that means.
What is that by the way? It's a religious order.
Ohsa Huguenot. It's a French Protestant.
Some Family Guy. Reference.
That is a Family Guy, Peter Griffin self-described.
Everybody. Got that reference.
Give us a like on this episode. Let's go.
(11:53):
So going back to it, so like. What do you do?
It's good that Tom Tucker also doesn't know what it means.
Anyways, sorry, what are you? So when when you're thinking
about yourself as well, what arethe like passion things that you
do? So I thought about myself, like
I really like windsurfing. I'm not really that good at it,
but I really like Windsor. You're pretty good at.
It and I was like, if I graduated and I didn't have
(12:13):
anything to do for a summer, maybe I could just take my
windsurfing gear, put some ads on like Facebook, go to the like
local park and use my gear. And just like it's all lessons
to show people how, how to windsurf on windy days.
You know, probably not gonna make a lot of money at it maybe,
but at least I'm doing somethingand I'm, I'm learning how to
interact with people. I'm getting some sense of like
(12:35):
finance. There's like the value of
momentum, OK, Like where you want to be in business.
It's really hard to be outside of everything, trying to think
of ideas when you're not being exposed regularly to problems
like the the entrepreneurs see problems everywhere and they
want to solve them. That's what makes you an
entrepreneur when you act on it.And I think that would be a good
(12:57):
advice for that is like, yeah, that's a good thing you're good
at and you're getting you're into something.
Right, right. Yeah.
So I wanna put out there the idea to of, you know, I think
having like a first customer is a really big deal, OK.
When I think about everything we've ever done, we've had a
first customer like working withus before we really had a
(13:19):
product. Right, even like we we had like
1 customer one. No shit.
Yeah, but. You mean the customer willing to
work with you early? Yes, like the customer that kind
of believes in you even when youdon't have a fully fleshed out
product. Yes, OK, early adopter.
Exactly. Yeah.
So I think like if I was doing that windsurfing, I need to know
like one person that is interested in learning
(13:40):
windsurfing and and willing to pay for it.
OK. And I think.
You could find. That and then and then I can
kind of get some momentum and I can like work with that person
and say like alright here's how I'm thinking of you know I'm
going to use AI to help me figure out how to teach how to
windsurf and I'm going to come up with like a Lesson plan and
stuff like that gonna like test it out with that first client
they're gonna know that they're the first client and that
they're kind of the Guinea pig on it they're cool with that
(14:02):
right so you're gonna find that like first customer that has a
comfort level with you then you.Necessarily, you would charge
them less because you're they're.
Taking them a good gamble on. I would definitely say don't do
it for free because no, don't doit for free.
You need to get some money transacting.
So that you're the best. Remember Anthony?
Monica said. You know your worst case is you
can always just give their moneyback, right?
(14:23):
Think about this all the time. No free trials, just get your
money back I think. That's a good way to do it.
Absolutely, Absolutely. OK, So with that in mind, we on
this, we were obviously in like,cause I was a software
developer, we were typically like a product business, OK.
But when I think about it, when I actually first started, I was
also doing a lot of services as well.
(14:45):
I was helping people with like websites and weird things.
Just being out there where I waslike selling hours, not selling
the products. OK.
But there's something to be saidabout transitioning from a
services business, like do a services business first because
it's easier to start and then transition to a product
business. Yes.
(15:06):
So I see there's lots of opportunities for people who
just wanna like, as you know, I'm, I've got a cottage now and
I've had to hire a lot of companies to do stuff and I've
found a lot of them are really disorganized and some are good,
but but a lot of them are reallydisorganized and not very
efficient. And I feel like there's tons of
opportunities to displace existing service based
(15:29):
businesses just by doing the service more efficiently using
AI, using scheduling, online payments like.
Reliability, I think in the context that you're talking
about, like, we'll be there whenwe're gonna be there.
We're gonna do the thing. We're going on the day we say
we're gonna do the thing. Like all those things that are
annoying about contractors. Definitely.
If you're a good contractor, people like you are really
valuable. Oh, yeah, Because you're unheard
(15:49):
of. You're like, you're such an
exception to the rule. Yeah, no offence.
Their contractors, you know, like, you know, physical labour
contractors watch today, but a lot of the people in that market
are not reliable. Not reliable.
They don't. They'll tell you whatever you
wanna hear, and then they actually come whenever they feel
like. It that kind of, I have two
thoughts on that just really quick.
So on the service, like converting from service to
product is a very common thing, right?
(16:09):
And I think of 2 examples. One is, do you recall Bryce
telling us about those students at Miguel who were making like
500 grand on the side? Just doing AI consulting.
Doing this is so ridiculous. Yeah, going into companies and
just showing them how to use AI tools.
Now that business is probably either it's probably more
competitive now I gotta imagine or potentially as evaporated or
(16:30):
maybe they're great, but they were you can see they're making
their way into. So for them, perfect.
Like you start off yeah, I consultants and then OHT hey, we
should build our own AI tools orhey, we found a client that we
do a lot of work for and we're going to build a product for
them and then we're going to go and then market that to other
people. But it started as services and
it brings up as. A lot of companies do that and I
(16:52):
find also too, they, they at first as you're trying to figure
out what you going to do as a service business, you offer a
lot of services. Yeah.
Eventually you start narrowing it down to things actually make
money and then you make a product out of those things that
make money. That's a very good approach.
Just second thing there, a lot of companies have internal
tools, yeah, that they create a product for Slack, OK, becomes.
External things. So, you know, the other thing
(17:12):
too is it's not a waste of time to work on internal processes if
some of those proceeds can couldpotentially be marketed later.
I mean, it's not a waste of timeperiod, but it can also be very
lucrative to do take something that is internal facing and
potentially make it external. Yeah, as a as a standalone.
Product, absolutely. Slack was like a a dating
platform. Like it was like.
A really different idea and its first iteration and then.
(17:35):
Yeah. And man, that guy's gonna drive
me nuts He had another company that was exactly like this too.
It was an internal tool. Yeah.
There's supposed to be a video game, I think.
OK. And then it became something
else, like totally different. That might have been Slack
store, I can't remember. But like there's something
really, really different. Pivot 1000 pivots.
They make this internal tool as they're trying to get this other
thing off the ground. They sell the internal tool.
(17:57):
Billionaires. So but.
That's how it works. It's like 5 steps.
The the code base for our App Armor product, like the the
early days of it, was like a used book selling app.
Right, that's. Right.
Yeah. And those like, you know, like
not a lot of that code, none of that code really translated
over, but those skills did translate over to what we were
building with app Armor. So yeah, no, absolutely.
(18:20):
It can start off as one thing and then pivot to something
else. So the other piece to this like
formula of like starting your own business, I think you gotta
really focus on the show me the money part, OK?
There's gotta be money transacting.
You've got to do some sort of actual analysis on like, hey,
can I cover my cost? Can there be profit?
At the end of the day, we're bigon not going down the funding
(18:42):
route, which if you're starting a services business, I don't
think you're going to get it anyways.
Like no way that's going to happen.
It's just not going to quite right.
But if you can figure out, hey, here are my like actual costs,
I'm gonna live super cheap. You know, I'm probably not
paying myself a ton at this point, but you know, with the
the long game in mind that I canget this to a point where it
(19:04):
will be successful over the longhaul and know what that market
sizing looks like, know what that that cost base looks like
and know what your revenue potential.
Is I think I 100% agree. I also think though, you have to
consider the the the long play here too, right?
And it's how long are you willing to be at this and take
whatever your estimate is and double it at least.
(19:25):
You know, it takes a long time to do these things.
Yeah. And but and just getting back to
this, like time of relative low risk in your life.
So you're 22. You try and do this takes you 4
years. You make some money, but it
doesn't really get you where youwant to be.
Like, So what, you get to your 26 now.
Yeah, you've learned some stuff and you can just keep trying to
(19:47):
figure it out from there. Like the worst get you, you have
risked very little because you started at a position of almost
nothing. Yeah, so like, alright, so when
you think about your skill sets,like I just wanna put a few
ideas out there for people to, for me of no, just like anybody,
but yeah. So like obviously like digital
services are big. So like doing websites, helping
(20:07):
people with social media management, content creation,
that kind of stuff. There's lots of opportunities
there. People are trying to do that
sort of stuff and need help doing it.
Uh, things like local services like tutoring, OK, you're, you
got a math degree and you can gotutor.
Kids Or you can spend the summerand do a math camp for kids or
things like that. You know, that's a great way.
(20:27):
It's a services business, but hey, there's probably.
Gonna be solidly in the side hustle category.
Yeah, that's fine though. Pet sitting home organization,
like tech support. You know, I could have easily
gone out and help people with their computers.
You would have hated that, I think.
I think the one thing here I canfix two things that you wanna do
right? Like, I get that you sometimes
you have to do a job or take a job or work for your, and even
(20:51):
in your startup, you'll take on things that you might not always
be wild about. Yeah, because you gotta do it
for the money. But if you can, try to find that
intersection of things you enjoy, things you're good at,
and things that are worthwhile. Doing yeah yeah I was thinking
about you too actually like one of your passion projects is you
like making sourdough bread I. Do you know?
I was gonna say that. What if What if young?
(21:12):
What if young? Dave decides, hey, I'm gonna see
if I can make a little business.You know what I would do?
Local sourdough bread? No.
You know what I would do, but I know you might laugh at me, but
I I think a lot of people would watch that on YouTube.
Really. Yeah, I think if like I had done
it when I first started doing it, if I had put those up on
YouTube, I started making sourdough bread in like 2016 and
I would have absolutely fucking killed it during the pandemic
(21:36):
when everybody was trying to make.
Sourdough bread, yeah. And so I've passed on what was
probably a very lucrative opportunity.
So anyway, what do you do? So obviously, you know, these
are like kind of like low barriers to entry, but also like
low barriers to exit. So like, you know, hey, you're a
sourdough bread make bread making business isn't going so
(21:57):
well. You just stop selling it, right?
You do something else, right? Yeah, but it's like a really
good, especially if you're youngand you're living at home and
you got time to spare. Like now is a great time to
start a business and start to understand, hey, what does it
take? Because the process of like,
let's use the sourdough bread idea, you know, you're going to
have to set up some sort of payment platform to receive
payments. You're going to have to deal
(22:18):
with customers you're. Gonna have a lot of experience.
They're gonna have to go and try.
And do something actually, incidentally, I, I was on a
panel a few weeks ago, yeah, about a month ago where I was
sitting next to somebody who works at Google.
And they were fantastic. They're very interesting.
And they were talking about whatthey get millions of applicants
a year for Google, OK, for all kinds of roles.
(22:39):
And they were like, what do you like look for?
And especially in this age of AIstuff, and a lot of it was like
AI proficiency, understanding a wide range and whatever.
But they're like, look, if you've gone out there and you've
just tried it, if you've tried to build a side, Russell, yeah,
you have an ecommerce store or you still hold a couple of
things, like if you get the ecosystem, it doesn't matter
what your education is, you are a very compelling candidate,
(23:00):
right? And I thought that was pretty
interesting. I was like, OK, so I don't think
people should perceive like a failed business, which could
possibly happen as like wasted time, like quite often, like
aside from making money, that experience in and of itself is
super valuable. That will probably lead to your
next. Opportunity.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I, if I just kind of
summarize this, I've kind of gotsome like action, action steps
(23:24):
that you need to take if you're trying to do it implement this.
So, so let me recap. So first one is kind of skills
audit. So audit your skills.
What can you do? What are you into, what are you
passionate about? What are you good at?
What are you good? At Into music, yeah, I am not.
Good at music I've. Seen the movie The Jerk and he's
trying to clap along. OK, like that's me.
(23:45):
So true, yeah. Second thing is like you gotta
find the problem and then that necessarily is like your first
customer. But I think that comes from
being out there, yeah, as. Well, yeah, you gotta talk to
people, find the problem, then validate it.
So make sure you can make revenue, make sure you can cover
costs. Make sure you can, you can do
(24:06):
all the aspects to, to, to to make it a profitable thing.
We're all big about profit. Not yeah.
Profit early. Profit is validation that your
idea is good and that your business model is sound.
Yeah, if you're not generating profit, even if you're
generating revenue, you've got some problems you've got to
sort. Out, yeah.
Then after that, you launch, youget customer feedback and you
(24:28):
start iterating and it's a pivot, persevere kind of
conversation that you're having at that.
Point and push versus. Is it is this working If it is
great, let's keep pushing if it's not, do we pivot it and do
something else? Yeah, so that's that's really
the the big the big keep away. So and you know, Dave Sardo
bread idea probably isn't going to get a lot of.
(24:50):
If you're interested in orderingsourdough bread, let me know of
of I'll whip you up a pie real quick and send it your way.
It's actually really good, if I may say so myself.
You've had it. Before, you know, it's good,
Yeah, You know, good point here too, is that.
You've got to not acknowledge mybread, Sir.
I love your bread. That's wonderful.
Thank you. Actually, your bagels are the
(25:11):
best, I think. Yeah, but anyways.
New York style. So I I think the biggest risk
isn't starting a business and failing, it's spending like 5
years trying to get a traditional job that may not
exist by the. Time you land and that's all
crashing too, like going on Indeed and you know, saying that
resume out there, getting nothing back and then you're
just back to playing Fortnite. But you know.
(25:32):
What the kids play these days. If you got up and you baked 10
loaves of bread and sold 10 loaves of bread today, you'd
feel pretty good about yourself,you know?
Like like a couple ovens to do that actually be pretty hard to
do. Anyway, whatever is true, yeah,
cool, cool. So.
OK, cool. So a good framework to get it
done? Yeah, give it a shot.
Are you thinking of starting a business?
No. Come on, it'll be pretty cool.
(25:52):
Peace out. Start it up.
Let's get it rolling. Big ideas, Money folding,
hustle, Smart dream. So why turn that grind into a
joy? Ride.
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