September 16, 2025 • 26 mins
What happens when the world's most ambitious entrepreneur sets his sights on a trillion-dollar payday? In this eye-opening episode of Startup Different, we dive deep into Elon Musk's unprecedented compensation proposal and unpack what it reveals about Tesla's astronomical ambitions.
We explore the staggering implications of Tesla's valuation targets and examine whether this bold vision represents the future of corporate compensation or a dangerous precedent. As Tesla pivots toward becoming an AI and robotics powerhouse, we analyze how this transformation could reshape entire industries—and what it means for aspiring entrepreneurs looking to carve out their own piece of the robotics revolution.
From navigating political headwinds to capitalizing on emerging opportunities in automation, this episode reveals the strategic thinking behind one of business history's most audacious bets.
Whether you're fascinated by Musk's unconventional approach or questioning the sustainability of such massive wealth concentration, this conversation will challenge your assumptions about leadership, innovation, and the price of transformational change.
Key Topics:
- The mechanics and implications of Musk's trillion-dollar compensation structure
- Tesla's evolution from car company to AI/robotics giant
- Political challenges and opportunities in the current landscape
- Untapped opportunities for entrepreneurs in the robotics space
- The future of executive compensation and corporate governance
Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that goes beyond the headlines to explore what this moment tells us about the intersection of ambition, technology, and capitalism in the 21st century.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
To reach the kind of numbers you're talking about, this board
thinks that that is a doable andB the right thing to do.
Yeah. And that thinks also that the
way that Tesla is going to reachthat kind of valuation is being
a dominant leader in these various categories.
We're we're talking beyond cars.Let's get it rolling.
(00:24):
Big ideas, money, hustle, smart dream so.
Wild. Turn that grinded through a joy.
Ride. Well, remember back a few
episodes we had an episode called Who can Confront Elon?
Oh yeah, OK, I like that. Episode and we were kind of like
(00:45):
holy smokes like remember about my the story about the sticker I
put in the back of my Tesla the.One the other day was like, I
bought this for a new Elon was crazy and I was like, I like
that. That's like, I think you should
go. With the people that drive the
cyber truck and have the big Toyota.
Yeah, that's in the back like that.
Yeah, we remember we put an image up during the.
Episode. Yeah, so somebody is gonna
(01:06):
confront Elon, it looks like. Yeah, sort of.
I saw this too. I know where you're going with
this, but keep going. So just a little bit of
background is that Tesla's proposed an unprecedented $1
trillion compensation package for CEO Elon Musk, Obviously the
biggest dollars. Is it Canada's GDP?
Like, I don't know, trillion and1/2?
I think it's like 2 point. So really OK for us that's
(01:29):
great, but. Also like consider like but in
the how many elans are we only like 2 elonzo?
Sorry, crazy because you think about all like the gas and oil
that they pump out of Western Canada, like you would think
that would be worth more than. Literally everything we do.
(01:49):
Literally what? We're doing right.
Now is probably included simulation of everything we
could do. Like all of it.
There you go. Alright, OK, so you might
remember too that back in 2018 he got a $56 billion package.
Everybody thought that was insane.
A trillion is 1,000,000 millions.
No, no, it's. That's a billion.
(02:09):
Is 1000 million. Trillion is a million million or
is it more than? Once yelling for no no no.
So it's always 1000. 1000, he's saying it's 10,000.
It's less. That's that's not enough, Yeah.
It's so then it's 1000, billions, 1000.
Billions. So a million.
Gonna they're offering to pay him 1000 billions.
Yeah. So 1000 million raise 1000
(02:31):
billion, 1000 billions is a trillion.
Wow. OK, cool.
OK. Alright, that's quite the comp.
You're good at math. Go on.
Alright, Yeah. Remember, we don't do math live
if we can avoid it. Yeah.
Public math doesn't matter. Not a fan.
Keep going OK, so the new packetstructure so potential value is
actually 975 billion to 1 trillion.
(02:53):
There are 12 tranches. I love saying tranche of
restricted stock grants. It's not options either like it
was in 2008 and Musks stake increase.
So right now he has about 13% ofTesla.
So he would end up being about 25 to 29% like wow.
(03:13):
And he he wants he would have voting control.
So this this apparently is something he's coming the media
and said he wants voting controlover Tesla.
So. Doesn't he?
Isn't his brother on the board? Yeah, like Gary Musk?
I don't actually know his name, but something like that.
Yeah, actually, I think it's a cool name, but I don't remember
it. OK.
I think he's a restaurant tour or something like that.
(03:35):
But anyway. What?
What is that? Sorry, restaurant?
Like somebody who opens restaurants?
Yeah. Because I was going to say if
it's just like going to restaurants and I'm also a
restaurant, continue. Restaurant patron?
That's not the same as being a restaurant tour.
So just put things in perspective.
These new milestones are 28 times higher than the 2008
(03:58):
package so. There's the one that got killed
right in Delaware that they tried to do in Delaware, but
then the shareholders got all mad and then they.
Actually think it's still in thecourts like.
OK, yeah, that's why they moved to Texas.
Yeah, so they wouldn't have to. Fight this year left California
though too, because he just got mad at.
California, like, screwed him orlike was messing around with him
(04:19):
because of his political views, Right.
I'm pretty sure. No idea it was something like
that. Or at least that's what he
attributed it to. Yeah.
And then and Delaware, I'm pretty sure the shareholders
have more rights in a Delaware Corp.
Hmm. So that he was just like, hey, I
don't wanna deal with that either.
So it was like a double win to move to Texas and probably other
massive incentives from the state of Texas.
Yeah. OK.
So let me put a few more numbersout there.
(04:41):
I just like table setting on this stuff.
So he wants his voting control. So we already mentioned that the
timeline to do this is 10 years.OK.
Currently Tesla's valued at 1.1 million, so half of Canada.
OK, cool. The.
Ultimate How many units of Canada can we get into this?
.5 Canada. The ultimate target is 8.5
(05:03):
trillion. Which is that's like 4.
Canada, it's, it's almost 8 times growth.
OK, yeah, 4 Canada or Canada, well, maybe a little less than 4
Canada. OK, around 4 Canada.
Yep. Plus minus half Canada.
It's actually an incremental steps.
It starts at 2 trillion. It increases by 500 billion
increments up until $6.5 trillion market valuation and
(05:26):
then $1 trillion increments up to the 8.5.
OK. So they're kind of trashed it.
So just to put it in perspectiveto the 8.5 trillion exceeds the
current combined market caps of Meta, Microsoft and Alphabet or
Google? Yeah, wow, Wow.
(05:46):
OK, Yeah, so, OK, I have so manythoughts about this.
I think on the one hand you havethe we're trying to get Elon to
work on this angle from that board for sure.
There's the other angle of the absurdity of the valuation,
which you're talking about or like, I don't know, absurdities
anywhere, but the significant increase in the valuation of
that company. And like, where does that come
(06:08):
from, right? And I have thoughts on that as
well. How do you want to attack this?
I'm ready to like, let's go. OK, so I wanna talk about
something Dad always used to sayto me.
We've talked about the photocopier dealership on the
show before. So in the book, our dad owned a
photocopy dealership. Dad had a lot of really good
sayings. One of my favorites that he had
was, and this was primarily for sales departments, but it was
(06:31):
all, I think it also applies to HR departments is that the
solution to every problem is in the comp.
OK, yes and no. I get the spirit of what he's
saying, so yes, OK. Fine.
Yes and no. Because, well, for if there are.
Any absolutes in business? I feel like this is one of.
Them so I like Elon Musk is I was extremely vain person and I
(06:53):
think being at the first trillionaire is appealing to
something that's actually not about it is about the money, but
it's also not it's also like he wants to be the first
trillionaire for the title of being the first trillionaire.
It's about the money. And it's like, indirectly, I
think of it as the title. And I think like, yeah, there's
obvious cause. Like what?
He can buy everything he wants for sure right now.
(07:13):
What's the increment after trillion?
Like quadrillion? It's like he's good for a while
being the first trillionaire like.
The first already failed at doing the.
Math Yeah. How many billions are in a
trillion? Whatever that that unit of
measure is beyond a trillion. Teraflop quadrille I.
Think. Thank you actually.
(07:34):
Graham yelled from the back and I said.
It right at the risk of public. Run back the tape, I said.
Could trillion? So we'll say quadrillion.
So the likelihood of 1000 trillions is pretty tough and
will not be hit for the foreseeable future.
So maybe being the first trillionaire is something that's
actually, I think that's. Obviously meaningful, yeah, but
(07:55):
I think the point is the comp plan.
Yeah, I think what Dash trying to get people to change, but I
want to go back to like the idea, remember, wasn't something
like after it probably changed now.
I would say historically it was like 10 years ago was like after
$75,000 of pay, you know, more pay doesn't really influence
people as much as very strong finishing returns, right?
So, so probably just upgrade that to like 85,000 now, so or
(08:17):
something like that. And after you or 100,000 after
you get more pay, like it doesn't change that much.
That's the only thing I was trying to say there.
So like for for dad, like he's right.
Yes, a lot of if you want to change behavior, it's in the
comp plan, but I think there's other pieces to like
satisfaction for employees, but that doesn't matter.
I understand where you're going with this and fair enough.
OK, so it's in the comp plan. They're trying to camp this guy
(08:38):
to do something different. Yeah, so.
Agreed. OK, So what does this work?
Ah, yeah, I think, I think, I think, I don't know if he gets
there, but I think that is a hugely appealing thing that
someone as egotistical as we've learned through the Dodge stuff
(09:00):
and everything else that Elon's been doing, that this is going
to be something that I think he wants to pursue and he wants to
take on. It is his most reasonable shot
or probably out of trillion dollars, right.
And I think that's this board trying to really focus this guy
on, on Tesla, but not just on Tesla, but on Tesla being the
(09:22):
focal point of his portfolio. So let me talk about what I,
what I kind of mean here. And I've read a little bit about
this, cause I found this wildly interesting.
Like I'm like, how do I get really, really conversation?
We were talking a couple weeks ago about the the AI people who
like a data scientist and stuff were getting like, you know,
like professional athlete offers.
Like 100,000,200 million. For meta and stuff, yeah, that's
(09:45):
like, oh hang on, hold on to your hat.
Like, what is the next thing? It's gonna happen.
But so the reason why I think this is interesting is that
they've talked or Elon spoken a lot about how he wants to take
different pieces of technology. He's working like Brock.
So his AI tool XI stuff and someof the other functions and
basically put them into Tesla, OK, use like leverage Tesla's
existing infrastructure through both manufacturing and
(10:08):
distribution and all these otherthings.
Introduce more sophisticated AI into it.
And to reach the kind of numbersyou're talking about, this board
thinks that that is A doable andB, the right thing to do.
Yeah. And that thinks also that the
way that Tesla is going to reachthat kind of valuation is being
(10:30):
a dominant leader in these various categories.
We're we're talking beyond cars.Yeah.
OK. So I think like, yeah, they're
going to sell more cars because he's going to back away from the
politics stuff, which is kind ofhappening.
I wasn't sure if there's any clause in there.
Maybe you can talk about that ina second, if there's a clause in
there about how him being involved in political activities
or something. But I think fundamentally what
this comes down to is, hey, Elon, we think you're right
(10:52):
about this idea of mixing it alltogether.
We think you're a really exceptional person, which
obviously he is, whether you hate him or love him, it's true.
And and then also, we think thatyou're gonna bring new
capabilities to Tesla that people aren't really thinking
active, the average person is not thinking about right now.
Tesla robots as an example. OK, so I have some information
on that actually cool. Prepare to share and get your
(11:14):
hot take. Hot take.
So obviously there are some goals that he has to some
milestones he has to hit. Specifically with the Optimists
humanoid robots. The target is that he has to
have 1,000,000 robots delivered.By when?
By 10 years. So there it's promiscuous.
So the 2025 goal is just several1000 units.
(11:37):
So 5 to 10,000 2020 650. 1000 This year, 2025 he has to have
robots out there. He has to have 5 to 10. 1000 Our
robots out there. Now I think he must be started.
They are they making them? Are they making them at the?
Giga Factory? I have no idea, I don't have
that data. Alright cool, but 2026 is when
it really starts ramping up. So 50,000 Optimus humanoid
(11:58):
robots. Graham, look up if they're
making them at the Gigafactory, man, I want to know that.
But yeah. The the initial use is going to
be in Tesla factories. OK, OK.
And he Musk his like vision on this is he says that optimist
can make Tesla worth 25 trillionor 80% of future future value.
(12:19):
So he thinks that the humanoid robot Optimus is going to be
actually 80% of the value of thecompany rather than the cars.
Yeah, I, I tend to agree. I think, well, I don't think for
one thing, the car market is waymore competitive than it was
five years ago, 10 years ago, definitely 10 years ago.
(12:39):
Like they have, I think effectively have more or less
lost in China. And that sucks for them because
that's a humongous market. And there's a lot of really
credible competitors that learn from following what they were
doing in China like they learnedfrom Tesla.
We talked about this before too.What I do think is kind of
interesting is the, so remember you told me to listen to the
(13:01):
recent one of the recent Diary CEO podcast with that Romanoski
or whatever the crazy guy really.
Interesting, I don't think. He's like crazy terrifying guys
bringing land. There alright, but you?
Kind of talked about like how AIis going to displace like 99% of
employment. Which is like 99.
Percent. So like everybody kind of thinks
of like anything at a computer, OK.
(13:21):
But then you're like, the plumber is right.
If either. Now the plumbers aren't safe
because if we have robots doing this at our AI powered, then
yeah, you're actually right thatit's going to potentially crush
those markets. I like his comment when he was
like, you know, everybody thinksof the low robots being like the
Star Wars robots or they're kindof dorks.
And kind of and they're kind of.Dumb.
(13:42):
They bump into each other, all that sort of stuff, and I don't
think these ones are gonna be like that.
I'm. Not to go in too big of a segue,
but have you seen there was likethe robot Olympics?
I think it was in Japan or China.
Something. They didn't look.
Great. They didn't look great.
No, no. That they could do.
Some of them like they were tethered and the guy was running
behind with it with like the. Cable really like this,
Basically like a giant puppet. Yeah, at that point, like.
(14:04):
Yeah, it's robotic. But anyway, I I think like
seeing Eli would Elon sees the vision there that in moving into
consumer markets with like you can buy a robot for 25 grand and
then you have a robot. I like honestly think about it
right now. I got a house with a couple of
kids, probably gonna have another one.
I might actually use a freaking robot.
Like you don't even like it actually could be really
(14:25):
helpful. Your next house.
I do have a lot of stairs which is kind of like a weird weird
flex, but it's just the house. Is arrow.
Carried you wipe me. That would be great though,
because then I don't have to do that for your daughter.
She told you you're bad at it. Yeah.
No, but like, but for real though, like there is a consumer
(14:46):
play there that is legitimate. Yeah.
And I think enormous. There'll be competition, but you
know, Tesla is uniquely positioned to be like, you know,
doing all the right stuff in terms of like the lithium
battery piece, like, like way down the supply chain to the
manufacturing to the distribution.
America located in America country like a lot of good
things going for it. It's.
(15:06):
Interesting is although. He's not friends with Donald
Trump more. I think that.
Could be interesting. I want to come back to that.
Yeah, yeah. So I want to just make a point
about I. I think it's initially.
Are called that when we come to that point, but anyway.
Yeah, come back. I think about that, you know,
when I think back to like 2018 and what Tesla was doing and
like they had like the robot they had like the he was doing
the AI stuff and the space stuffand it all seemed very
(15:27):
disconnected. And I think it's all coming
together now. OK.
So that's that's what's interesting is that I think the
master plan is actually feel what we were now feels very
visionary. Yeah.
I agree, actually, it definitely.
So now we're gonna have, you know, a a SpaceX rocket with a
Tesla robot in it flying to Mars.
(15:48):
You know, like, it's like all these things are happening.
OK, it's kinda fast. So now let's talk about the
politics angle, because hang on,Grant.
Do we know where they're making those?
Real? Fremont, CA.
Ohv. OK, they're still stuck in
California making those robots. That'll be interesting.
Pilot. Alright, cool.
Cool. Alright.
Alright. OK.
See what? Happens so you.
(16:08):
Wanna bring that to Canada? I'm sure we'll make you give you
some incentive anyway. Well, we should.
We should, for the love of God, anyway.
I don't know if he's. High on coming up.
Here governments. He went to Queens, went to maybe
he's like, hey, Kingston ON the world changing robot factory.
(16:29):
You've read the best, now try the rest.
Wait, who wrote this? Check out Startup Different on
Amazon, Audible, and Kindle. Alright, go ahead.
OK, so let's talk about politicsnow.
So obviously that didn't go overwell, especially with people
(16:53):
like me having to make stickers on the.
Car Tesler autoball. They're on Pennsylvania Ave.
It was great. I love Tesler.
It's all computers. It's all computer, yeah.
Anyway, so it didn't work out. I think everybody could have
predicted this, but the whole Trump Musk relationship really
broke down, fell apart. Yep.
(17:14):
So that was back in June 2025. And big disagreements around
tariffs, but also all the spending that all of a sudden
the big beautiful bill, all thatsort of stuff.
Lots of personal attacks. And homonyms.
Tesla stocked, you know, drove me nuts.
Do you remember the episode where we were talking about
this? And I went to the Tesla stock
(17:35):
and actually it dropped a ton. But actually if you went back a
full year, it was still up, which kind of was annoying
because in a way I wanted a, youknow, some real pain, a really
for the Tesla board. So they would then address this.
Well, now they're finally kind of addressing this.
So yeah. So that's good.
I didn't realize this as well, but.
I mean their sales were crushed though.
Like I think they felt real. Profitability was crushed bit
(17:56):
more than anything. Yeah, because they went from
being highly profitable. They're doing there though.
Right. They weren't selling enough and
then they had all their expenses, so their profit
margins got really squeezed. Actually our dad, obviously Dad
dad was one of the few people that bought.
That always gets in on it. Yeah, he finds a way to find
these crazy deals and it drives me nuts.
He's great. He runs towards fire like he he
knows when. The deal.
(18:16):
He sits on it. He waits for them to buckle.
Yeah, yeah. Papa Sinkinson getting her done
anyways. Yeah, so dad brought his Tesla
at an. Incredibly never called him
Papa. It's like you're killing man.
I didn't know this either, but Ido a little bit of this like
Elon is actually involved in a lot of politics around the
world. So there was the Germany thing
(18:39):
that I thought you're. Kind of like kicked him out.
Yeah, 18 other countries across 6 continents affected by his
political activity. So he's pretty involved in this
stuff. And obviously this had huge
impact on on Tesla. So I think they're trying to
pivot him away from that sort ofstuff.
And that, that, that seems to be, I think is a really good
thing. I think he should just stay
(18:59):
quiet, build cool stuff and let us cheer them on.
And. Then people will never forget
that though. People will never forget dodge
like that. There, that's that.
That will always be a mark on his.
Life for me because like I drivea Tesla and I I feel bad for the
engineer that built like full self driving yeah and then has
and delong go out there and you know kind of torch.
(19:22):
The world changing technology that it became associated with
this guy who like carried a chainsaw into Congress or
something. OHS in some whatever.
You know what? I'm saying yeah, yeah, but yeah,
pretty, pretty. Figurative chainsaw into
Congress, A literal chainsaw at some event, so.
Alright so I wanna hit you for some questions and just get your
hot takes. Can you do it in 10 years?
(19:45):
Yeah, I think so. OK.
I think so, because a lot of things, so a lot's gonna change.
And I think that we talked about, you know, last week about
the singularity and AGI actuallyever having listened to
Romanowski or whatever, I think our terms got a little
conflated. But I think the, the fact of the
(20:05):
matter is lots about change. We don't really know what's
going to happen. And I think this potentially
presents a very unique moment inhistory to have exceptional
opportunity if you happen to be really well positioned, which
for for, you know, versus the average entrepreneur.
Obviously, Elon Musk is exceptionally well positioned,
yeah. So I think if anybody's
(20:25):
probably, if anybody's gonna pull off, it's gonna be him.
Yeah, you know, so if he gets to8 trillion in 10 years, he's
saying it'll the valuation video.
Worth right now, Sorry. To more 4 point.
So, like, it's not great. Yeah, it's not outrageous that
like a company could like double, like NVIDIA could be in
that ballpark easily in 10 years, I think.
(20:45):
For sure. So 10 years, OK, he's saying
that 80% of the valuation of that company in 10 years will be
the Optimist robotics AI piece. OK.
So he's not really going to do it with cars.
Like the car is going to be a piece of it.
He might double the the the valuation based on the vehicles,
but he's going to do it with with robots.
(21:07):
And what's really interesting isTrump obviously is saying
putting up tariffs, build your factory here.
The only problem is it's going to be all robots running these
factories. It's not going to be he's not
saying bring your jobs, you're saying bring your factories
here. And it's gonna be loaded up with
with robot, I think. One thing we haven't really
addressed here either though is the is the issue that open AI
(21:29):
and some of these other early movers in the AI space, some of
the winners right now, a lot of them have made major investments
in hardware robotics companies and some of these robotics
companies are also that that arenot associated with these AI
platforms also will have really good products by the time you go
to market. Really, I think what's gonna
happen here is it's a, as usual,a function of distribution.
(21:52):
And because Elon and produce these things pretty reasonably
easily, because he has at least some experience with amazing
engineers and big huge, the Gigafactory and all these other
things they're doing and the direct access to the some of
these raw materials. I think that's actually gonna be
the thing that makes them potentially more successful than
some of these other moves. That'll be interesting to see.
(22:12):
But I will I do think it'll be competitive.
I as I don't want to say this isgoing to be some sort of
monopoly. I think this will be tighter,
but it'll become such a part of everyone's lives that I think
it'll it'll move the market. So, yeah, good point.
So I did wanna touch on the competition piece.
So there's kind of like 2 factors in the competition.
I I think there's the EV competition.
Yeah, yeah, like the other. Here, though, I think we're
(22:34):
dealing with. That right actively the other
one is kind of like the unknown piece, which is like the the
robotics, the AI, that kind of stuff and I think that's
actually the growth market. So I see them as having kind of
like, you know, traditional carmakers in the EV space, the,
the GM's, the Toyotas, the whatever, making EV's to compete
with them. And that's kind of like a
(22:54):
unknown. Like they're gonna be there,
they're gonna, they're gonna have to deal with that.
The unknown unknown is the open AI and those guys going into
that robotic space. Unknown.
Unknown. Does it the known?
Yeah, cause you know, but you don't.
Know. Sorry, that's right.
Who was it was Donald Rumsfeld who had this like the whole
during the the Iraq war was likethe guy trying on you got all
(23:16):
jumbled up and he just like like, like stopped.
Responding No public math and nopublic logic.
Yeah, yeah. This is a really dumb down show
the benefit of the host. But but yeah, that's, that's
correct. We just don't know how that's
gonna play out. So I do think that's kind of
fascinating, but it'll be competitive.
But I just think it's so lucrative because it's like
literally every household that above a certain income and if
(23:37):
they get these things priced at a certain level, yeah, you
could, you could see it being really appealing.
Like you could see it displacingweird markets too, like like the
nanny market, like, you know what I mean?
And like the, the plumber, home caretaker market, the manual
labour market, you know, maybe it's gonna be a saving grace for
the US government cause they're certainly deporting a lot of
people who do a lot of manual labour these days.
And I feel like they were gonna have to find means to replace
(23:59):
that. And it might be robots.
Yeah. So alright, we're a show about
startups and if you're a buddingentrepreneur kind of business,
are you starting right now? Do I want to be in the robot
space Like it's competitive now?And it's not a trivial thing to
get into cause it's so hardware focused and costly, right?
I know, what do you think? That's big.
We always talk about minimum viable products and how do you
(24:20):
minimum viable a a humanoid robot?
Yeah. I don't know, We have to think
about like, how can we play intothis growing space and find
opportunity that's more niche. I you know, you're not gonna
make the robot, but can you do something for the robot?
Can you do like either the Canada arm of the robot?
Like you know what I mean? Like is there some niche way to
(24:40):
play into this? Yeah.
So, yeah, absolutely. So I don't know.
That's kind of where I'm landingon this whole thing is like, I
think he can do it. I think it's going to be really
tough. I think it's gonna be really
impressive. I would like this is one of the
things that I think that we wantto leave you with, which is the
value of the comp plan. Yeah.
And understanding that there they you can't even rein in Elon
(25:01):
Musk. Yeah.
And for with a well enough structured plan, something that
appeals to both ego and financesis actually a pretty lethal.
Way one thing I did want to leave you with is that if none
of the 12 trances are achieved, he gets nothing at all.
So it. Will achieve.
Some for for Tesla and for Elon.It's going it's an all or
nothing. I like that.
(25:23):
I think that's the right. Way it's a big risk.
He doesn't need more financial security.
It's about getting to the trillion.
Nobody cares about the anything.Between because you got a
T-shirt, maybe if you. Yeah.
Well, you can go and Vista printand you can order your own
T-shirt. Yeah.
What do they do? They have a party.
Like, I guess I have a pretty freaking good party.
Man, so you ever Seinfeld numberone dad versus world's greatest.
(25:44):
Yeah. 1st. Trillion man.
Anyway. All right, folks, we'll catch
you next week. Let's get it rolling.
Big ideas, money, hustle, smart dream.
So will turn that grinding through a joy.
Ride.
To reach the kind of numbers you're talking about, this board
thinks that that is a doable andB the right thing to do.
Yeah. And that thinks also that the
way that Tesla is going to reachthat kind of valuation is being
a dominant leader in these various categories.
We're we're talking beyond cars.Let's get it rolling.
(00:24):
Big ideas, money, hustle, smart dream so.
Wild. Turn that grinded through a joy.
Ride. Well, remember back a few
episodes we had an episode called Who can Confront Elon?
Oh yeah, OK, I like that. Episode and we were kind of like
(00:45):
holy smokes like remember about my the story about the sticker I
put in the back of my Tesla the.One the other day was like, I
bought this for a new Elon was crazy and I was like, I like
that. That's like, I think you should
go. With the people that drive the
cyber truck and have the big Toyota.
Yeah, that's in the back like that.
Yeah, we remember we put an image up during the.
Episode. Yeah, so somebody is gonna
(01:06):
confront Elon, it looks like. Yeah, sort of.
I saw this too. I know where you're going with
this, but keep going. So just a little bit of
background is that Tesla's proposed an unprecedented $1
trillion compensation package for CEO Elon Musk, Obviously the
biggest dollars. Is it Canada's GDP?
Like, I don't know, trillion and1/2?
I think it's like 2 point. So really OK for us that's
(01:29):
great, but. Also like consider like but in
the how many elans are we only like 2 elonzo?
Sorry, crazy because you think about all like the gas and oil
that they pump out of Western Canada, like you would think
that would be worth more than. Literally everything we do.
(01:49):
Literally what? We're doing right.
Now is probably included simulation of everything we
could do. Like all of it.
There you go. Alright, OK, so you might
remember too that back in 2018 he got a $56 billion package.
Everybody thought that was insane.
A trillion is 1,000,000 millions.
No, no, it's. That's a billion.
(02:09):
Is 1000 million. Trillion is a million million or
is it more than? Once yelling for no no no.
So it's always 1000. 1000, he's saying it's 10,000.
It's less. That's that's not enough, Yeah.
It's so then it's 1000, billions, 1000.
Billions. So a million.
Gonna they're offering to pay him 1000 billions.
Yeah. So 1000 million raise 1000
(02:31):
billion, 1000 billions is a trillion.
Wow. OK, cool.
OK. Alright, that's quite the comp.
You're good at math. Go on.
Alright, Yeah. Remember, we don't do math live
if we can avoid it. Yeah.
Public math doesn't matter. Not a fan.
Keep going OK, so the new packetstructure so potential value is
actually 975 billion to 1 trillion.
(02:53):
There are 12 tranches. I love saying tranche of
restricted stock grants. It's not options either like it
was in 2008 and Musks stake increase.
So right now he has about 13% ofTesla.
So he would end up being about 25 to 29% like wow.
(03:13):
And he he wants he would have voting control.
So this this apparently is something he's coming the media
and said he wants voting controlover Tesla.
So. Doesn't he?
Isn't his brother on the board? Yeah, like Gary Musk?
I don't actually know his name, but something like that.
Yeah, actually, I think it's a cool name, but I don't remember
it. OK.
I think he's a restaurant tour or something like that.
(03:35):
But anyway. What?
What is that? Sorry, restaurant?
Like somebody who opens restaurants?
Yeah. Because I was going to say if
it's just like going to restaurants and I'm also a
restaurant, continue. Restaurant patron?
That's not the same as being a restaurant tour.
So just put things in perspective.
These new milestones are 28 times higher than the 2008
(03:58):
package so. There's the one that got killed
right in Delaware that they tried to do in Delaware, but
then the shareholders got all mad and then they.
Actually think it's still in thecourts like.
OK, yeah, that's why they moved to Texas.
Yeah, so they wouldn't have to. Fight this year left California
though too, because he just got mad at.
California, like, screwed him orlike was messing around with him
(04:19):
because of his political views, Right.
I'm pretty sure. No idea it was something like
that. Or at least that's what he
attributed it to. Yeah.
And then and Delaware, I'm pretty sure the shareholders
have more rights in a Delaware Corp.
Hmm. So that he was just like, hey, I
don't wanna deal with that either.
So it was like a double win to move to Texas and probably other
massive incentives from the state of Texas.
Yeah. OK.
So let me put a few more numbersout there.
(04:41):
I just like table setting on this stuff.
So he wants his voting control. So we already mentioned that the
timeline to do this is 10 years.OK.
Currently Tesla's valued at 1.1 million, so half of Canada.
OK, cool. The.
Ultimate How many units of Canada can we get into this?
.5 Canada. The ultimate target is 8.5
(05:03):
trillion. Which is that's like 4.
Canada, it's, it's almost 8 times growth.
OK, yeah, 4 Canada or Canada, well, maybe a little less than 4
Canada. OK, around 4 Canada.
Yep. Plus minus half Canada.
It's actually an incremental steps.
It starts at 2 trillion. It increases by 500 billion
increments up until $6.5 trillion market valuation and
(05:26):
then $1 trillion increments up to the 8.5.
OK. So they're kind of trashed it.
So just to put it in perspectiveto the 8.5 trillion exceeds the
current combined market caps of Meta, Microsoft and Alphabet or
Google? Yeah, wow, Wow.
(05:46):
OK, Yeah, so, OK, I have so manythoughts about this.
I think on the one hand you havethe we're trying to get Elon to
work on this angle from that board for sure.
There's the other angle of the absurdity of the valuation,
which you're talking about or like, I don't know, absurdities
anywhere, but the significant increase in the valuation of
that company. And like, where does that come
(06:08):
from, right? And I have thoughts on that as
well. How do you want to attack this?
I'm ready to like, let's go. OK, so I wanna talk about
something Dad always used to sayto me.
We've talked about the photocopier dealership on the
show before. So in the book, our dad owned a
photocopy dealership. Dad had a lot of really good
sayings. One of my favorites that he had
was, and this was primarily for sales departments, but it was
(06:31):
all, I think it also applies to HR departments is that the
solution to every problem is in the comp.
OK, yes and no. I get the spirit of what he's
saying, so yes, OK. Fine.
Yes and no. Because, well, for if there are.
Any absolutes in business? I feel like this is one of.
Them so I like Elon Musk is I was extremely vain person and I
(06:53):
think being at the first trillionaire is appealing to
something that's actually not about it is about the money, but
it's also not it's also like he wants to be the first
trillionaire for the title of being the first trillionaire.
It's about the money. And it's like, indirectly, I
think of it as the title. And I think like, yeah, there's
obvious cause. Like what?
He can buy everything he wants for sure right now.
(07:13):
What's the increment after trillion?
Like quadrillion? It's like he's good for a while
being the first trillionaire like.
The first already failed at doing the.
Math Yeah. How many billions are in a
trillion? Whatever that that unit of
measure is beyond a trillion. Teraflop quadrille I.
Think. Thank you actually.
(07:34):
Graham yelled from the back and I said.
It right at the risk of public. Run back the tape, I said.
Could trillion? So we'll say quadrillion.
So the likelihood of 1000 trillions is pretty tough and
will not be hit for the foreseeable future.
So maybe being the first trillionaire is something that's
actually, I think that's. Obviously meaningful, yeah, but
(07:55):
I think the point is the comp plan.
Yeah, I think what Dash trying to get people to change, but I
want to go back to like the idea, remember, wasn't something
like after it probably changed now.
I would say historically it was like 10 years ago was like after
$75,000 of pay, you know, more pay doesn't really influence
people as much as very strong finishing returns, right?
So, so probably just upgrade that to like 85,000 now, so or
(08:17):
something like that. And after you or 100,000 after
you get more pay, like it doesn't change that much.
That's the only thing I was trying to say there.
So like for for dad, like he's right.
Yes, a lot of if you want to change behavior, it's in the
comp plan, but I think there's other pieces to like
satisfaction for employees, but that doesn't matter.
I understand where you're going with this and fair enough.
OK, so it's in the comp plan. They're trying to camp this guy
(08:38):
to do something different. Yeah, so.
Agreed. OK, So what does this work?
Ah, yeah, I think, I think, I think, I don't know if he gets
there, but I think that is a hugely appealing thing that
someone as egotistical as we've learned through the Dodge stuff
(09:00):
and everything else that Elon's been doing, that this is going
to be something that I think he wants to pursue and he wants to
take on. It is his most reasonable shot
or probably out of trillion dollars, right.
And I think that's this board trying to really focus this guy
on, on Tesla, but not just on Tesla, but on Tesla being the
(09:22):
focal point of his portfolio. So let me talk about what I,
what I kind of mean here. And I've read a little bit about
this, cause I found this wildly interesting.
Like I'm like, how do I get really, really conversation?
We were talking a couple weeks ago about the the AI people who
like a data scientist and stuff were getting like, you know,
like professional athlete offers.
Like 100,000,200 million. For meta and stuff, yeah, that's
(09:45):
like, oh hang on, hold on to your hat.
Like, what is the next thing? It's gonna happen.
But so the reason why I think this is interesting is that
they've talked or Elon spoken a lot about how he wants to take
different pieces of technology. He's working like Brock.
So his AI tool XI stuff and someof the other functions and
basically put them into Tesla, OK, use like leverage Tesla's
existing infrastructure through both manufacturing and
(10:08):
distribution and all these otherthings.
Introduce more sophisticated AI into it.
And to reach the kind of numbersyou're talking about, this board
thinks that that is A doable andB, the right thing to do.
Yeah. And that thinks also that the
way that Tesla is going to reachthat kind of valuation is being
(10:30):
a dominant leader in these various categories.
We're we're talking beyond cars.Yeah.
OK. So I think like, yeah, they're
going to sell more cars because he's going to back away from the
politics stuff, which is kind ofhappening.
I wasn't sure if there's any clause in there.
Maybe you can talk about that ina second, if there's a clause in
there about how him being involved in political activities
or something. But I think fundamentally what
this comes down to is, hey, Elon, we think you're right
(10:52):
about this idea of mixing it alltogether.
We think you're a really exceptional person, which
obviously he is, whether you hate him or love him, it's true.
And and then also, we think thatyou're gonna bring new
capabilities to Tesla that people aren't really thinking
active, the average person is not thinking about right now.
Tesla robots as an example. OK, so I have some information
on that actually cool. Prepare to share and get your
(11:14):
hot take. Hot take.
So obviously there are some goals that he has to some
milestones he has to hit. Specifically with the Optimists
humanoid robots. The target is that he has to
have 1,000,000 robots delivered.By when?
By 10 years. So there it's promiscuous.
So the 2025 goal is just several1000 units.
(11:37):
So 5 to 10,000 2020 650. 1000 This year, 2025 he has to have
robots out there. He has to have 5 to 10. 1000 Our
robots out there. Now I think he must be started.
They are they making them? Are they making them at the?
Giga Factory? I have no idea, I don't have
that data. Alright cool, but 2026 is when
it really starts ramping up. So 50,000 Optimus humanoid
(11:58):
robots. Graham, look up if they're
making them at the Gigafactory, man, I want to know that.
But yeah. The the initial use is going to
be in Tesla factories. OK, OK.
And he Musk his like vision on this is he says that optimist
can make Tesla worth 25 trillionor 80% of future future value.
(12:19):
So he thinks that the humanoid robot Optimus is going to be
actually 80% of the value of thecompany rather than the cars.
Yeah, I, I tend to agree. I think, well, I don't think for
one thing, the car market is waymore competitive than it was
five years ago, 10 years ago, definitely 10 years ago.
(12:39):
Like they have, I think effectively have more or less
lost in China. And that sucks for them because
that's a humongous market. And there's a lot of really
credible competitors that learn from following what they were
doing in China like they learnedfrom Tesla.
We talked about this before too.What I do think is kind of
interesting is the, so remember you told me to listen to the
(13:01):
recent one of the recent Diary CEO podcast with that Romanoski
or whatever the crazy guy really.
Interesting, I don't think. He's like crazy terrifying guys
bringing land. There alright, but you?
Kind of talked about like how AIis going to displace like 99% of
employment. Which is like 99.
Percent. So like everybody kind of thinks
of like anything at a computer, OK.
(13:21):
But then you're like, the plumber is right.
If either. Now the plumbers aren't safe
because if we have robots doing this at our AI powered, then
yeah, you're actually right thatit's going to potentially crush
those markets. I like his comment when he was
like, you know, everybody thinksof the low robots being like the
Star Wars robots or they're kindof dorks.
And kind of and they're kind of.Dumb.
(13:42):
They bump into each other, all that sort of stuff, and I don't
think these ones are gonna be like that.
I'm. Not to go in too big of a segue,
but have you seen there was likethe robot Olympics?
I think it was in Japan or China.
Something. They didn't look.
Great. They didn't look great.
No, no. That they could do.
Some of them like they were tethered and the guy was running
behind with it with like the. Cable really like this,
Basically like a giant puppet. Yeah, at that point, like.
(14:04):
Yeah, it's robotic. But anyway, I I think like
seeing Eli would Elon sees the vision there that in moving into
consumer markets with like you can buy a robot for 25 grand and
then you have a robot. I like honestly think about it
right now. I got a house with a couple of
kids, probably gonna have another one.
I might actually use a freaking robot.
Like you don't even like it actually could be really
(14:25):
helpful. Your next house.
I do have a lot of stairs which is kind of like a weird weird
flex, but it's just the house. Is arrow.
Carried you wipe me. That would be great though,
because then I don't have to do that for your daughter.
She told you you're bad at it. Yeah.
No, but like, but for real though, like there is a consumer
(14:46):
play there that is legitimate. Yeah.
And I think enormous. There'll be competition, but you
know, Tesla is uniquely positioned to be like, you know,
doing all the right stuff in terms of like the lithium
battery piece, like, like way down the supply chain to the
manufacturing to the distribution.
America located in America country like a lot of good
things going for it. It's.
(15:06):
Interesting is although. He's not friends with Donald
Trump more. I think that.
Could be interesting. I want to come back to that.
Yeah, yeah. So I want to just make a point
about I. I think it's initially.
Are called that when we come to that point, but anyway.
Yeah, come back. I think about that, you know,
when I think back to like 2018 and what Tesla was doing and
like they had like the robot they had like the he was doing
the AI stuff and the space stuffand it all seemed very
(15:27):
disconnected. And I think it's all coming
together now. OK.
So that's that's what's interesting is that I think the
master plan is actually feel what we were now feels very
visionary. Yeah.
I agree, actually, it definitely.
So now we're gonna have, you know, a a SpaceX rocket with a
Tesla robot in it flying to Mars.
(15:48):
You know, like, it's like all these things are happening.
OK, it's kinda fast. So now let's talk about the
politics angle, because hang on,Grant.
Do we know where they're making those?
Real? Fremont, CA.
Ohv. OK, they're still stuck in
California making those robots. That'll be interesting.
Pilot. Alright, cool.
Cool. Alright.
Alright. OK.
See what? Happens so you.
(16:08):
Wanna bring that to Canada? I'm sure we'll make you give you
some incentive anyway. Well, we should.
We should, for the love of God, anyway.
I don't know if he's. High on coming up.
Here governments. He went to Queens, went to maybe
he's like, hey, Kingston ON the world changing robot factory.
(16:29):
You've read the best, now try the rest.
Wait, who wrote this? Check out Startup Different on
Amazon, Audible, and Kindle. Alright, go ahead.
OK, so let's talk about politicsnow.
So obviously that didn't go overwell, especially with people
(16:53):
like me having to make stickers on the.
Car Tesler autoball. They're on Pennsylvania Ave.
It was great. I love Tesler.
It's all computers. It's all computer, yeah.
Anyway, so it didn't work out. I think everybody could have
predicted this, but the whole Trump Musk relationship really
broke down, fell apart. Yep.
(17:14):
So that was back in June 2025. And big disagreements around
tariffs, but also all the spending that all of a sudden
the big beautiful bill, all thatsort of stuff.
Lots of personal attacks. And homonyms.
Tesla stocked, you know, drove me nuts.
Do you remember the episode where we were talking about
this? And I went to the Tesla stock
(17:35):
and actually it dropped a ton. But actually if you went back a
full year, it was still up, which kind of was annoying
because in a way I wanted a, youknow, some real pain, a really
for the Tesla board. So they would then address this.
Well, now they're finally kind of addressing this.
So yeah. So that's good.
I didn't realize this as well, but.
I mean their sales were crushed though.
Like I think they felt real. Profitability was crushed bit
(17:56):
more than anything. Yeah, because they went from
being highly profitable. They're doing there though.
Right. They weren't selling enough and
then they had all their expenses, so their profit
margins got really squeezed. Actually our dad, obviously Dad
dad was one of the few people that bought.
That always gets in on it. Yeah, he finds a way to find
these crazy deals and it drives me nuts.
He's great. He runs towards fire like he he
knows when. The deal.
(18:16):
He sits on it. He waits for them to buckle.
Yeah, yeah. Papa Sinkinson getting her done
anyways. Yeah, so dad brought his Tesla
at an. Incredibly never called him
Papa. It's like you're killing man.
I didn't know this either, but Ido a little bit of this like
Elon is actually involved in a lot of politics around the
world. So there was the Germany thing
(18:39):
that I thought you're. Kind of like kicked him out.
Yeah, 18 other countries across 6 continents affected by his
political activity. So he's pretty involved in this
stuff. And obviously this had huge
impact on on Tesla. So I think they're trying to
pivot him away from that sort ofstuff.
And that, that, that seems to be, I think is a really good
thing. I think he should just stay
(18:59):
quiet, build cool stuff and let us cheer them on.
And. Then people will never forget
that though. People will never forget dodge
like that. There, that's that.
That will always be a mark on his.
Life for me because like I drivea Tesla and I I feel bad for the
engineer that built like full self driving yeah and then has
and delong go out there and you know kind of torch.
(19:22):
The world changing technology that it became associated with
this guy who like carried a chainsaw into Congress or
something. OHS in some whatever.
You know what? I'm saying yeah, yeah, but yeah,
pretty, pretty. Figurative chainsaw into
Congress, A literal chainsaw at some event, so.
Alright so I wanna hit you for some questions and just get your
hot takes. Can you do it in 10 years?
(19:45):
Yeah, I think so. OK.
I think so, because a lot of things, so a lot's gonna change.
And I think that we talked about, you know, last week about
the singularity and AGI actuallyever having listened to
Romanowski or whatever, I think our terms got a little
conflated. But I think the, the fact of the
(20:05):
matter is lots about change. We don't really know what's
going to happen. And I think this potentially
presents a very unique moment inhistory to have exceptional
opportunity if you happen to be really well positioned, which
for for, you know, versus the average entrepreneur.
Obviously, Elon Musk is exceptionally well positioned,
yeah. So I think if anybody's
(20:25):
probably, if anybody's gonna pull off, it's gonna be him.
Yeah, you know, so if he gets to8 trillion in 10 years, he's
saying it'll the valuation video.
Worth right now, Sorry. To more 4 point.
So, like, it's not great. Yeah, it's not outrageous that
like a company could like double, like NVIDIA could be in
that ballpark easily in 10 years, I think.
(20:45):
For sure. So 10 years, OK, he's saying
that 80% of the valuation of that company in 10 years will be
the Optimist robotics AI piece. OK.
So he's not really going to do it with cars.
Like the car is going to be a piece of it.
He might double the the the valuation based on the vehicles,
but he's going to do it with with robots.
(21:07):
And what's really interesting isTrump obviously is saying
putting up tariffs, build your factory here.
The only problem is it's going to be all robots running these
factories. It's not going to be he's not
saying bring your jobs, you're saying bring your factories
here. And it's gonna be loaded up with
with robot, I think. One thing we haven't really
addressed here either though is the is the issue that open AI
(21:29):
and some of these other early movers in the AI space, some of
the winners right now, a lot of them have made major investments
in hardware robotics companies and some of these robotics
companies are also that that arenot associated with these AI
platforms also will have really good products by the time you go
to market. Really, I think what's gonna
happen here is it's a, as usual,a function of distribution.
(21:52):
And because Elon and produce these things pretty reasonably
easily, because he has at least some experience with amazing
engineers and big huge, the Gigafactory and all these other
things they're doing and the direct access to the some of
these raw materials. I think that's actually gonna be
the thing that makes them potentially more successful than
some of these other moves. That'll be interesting to see.
(22:12):
But I will I do think it'll be competitive.
I as I don't want to say this isgoing to be some sort of
monopoly. I think this will be tighter,
but it'll become such a part of everyone's lives that I think
it'll it'll move the market. So, yeah, good point.
So I did wanna touch on the competition piece.
So there's kind of like 2 factors in the competition.
I I think there's the EV competition.
Yeah, yeah, like the other. Here, though, I think we're
(22:34):
dealing with. That right actively the other
one is kind of like the unknown piece, which is like the the
robotics, the AI, that kind of stuff and I think that's
actually the growth market. So I see them as having kind of
like, you know, traditional carmakers in the EV space, the,
the GM's, the Toyotas, the whatever, making EV's to compete
with them. And that's kind of like a
(22:54):
unknown. Like they're gonna be there,
they're gonna, they're gonna have to deal with that.
The unknown unknown is the open AI and those guys going into
that robotic space. Unknown.
Unknown. Does it the known?
Yeah, cause you know, but you don't.
Know. Sorry, that's right.
Who was it was Donald Rumsfeld who had this like the whole
during the the Iraq war was likethe guy trying on you got all
(23:16):
jumbled up and he just like like, like stopped.
Responding No public math and nopublic logic.
Yeah, yeah. This is a really dumb down show
the benefit of the host. But but yeah, that's, that's
correct. We just don't know how that's
gonna play out. So I do think that's kind of
fascinating, but it'll be competitive.
But I just think it's so lucrative because it's like
literally every household that above a certain income and if
(23:37):
they get these things priced at a certain level, yeah, you
could, you could see it being really appealing.
Like you could see it displacingweird markets too, like like the
nanny market, like, you know what I mean?
And like the, the plumber, home caretaker market, the manual
labour market, you know, maybe it's gonna be a saving grace for
the US government cause they're certainly deporting a lot of
people who do a lot of manual labour these days.
And I feel like they were gonna have to find means to replace
(23:59):
that. And it might be robots.
Yeah. So alright, we're a show about
startups and if you're a buddingentrepreneur kind of business,
are you starting right now? Do I want to be in the robot
space Like it's competitive now?And it's not a trivial thing to
get into cause it's so hardware focused and costly, right?
I know, what do you think? That's big.
We always talk about minimum viable products and how do you
(24:20):
minimum viable a a humanoid robot?
Yeah. I don't know, We have to think
about like, how can we play intothis growing space and find
opportunity that's more niche. I you know, you're not gonna
make the robot, but can you do something for the robot?
Can you do like either the Canada arm of the robot?
Like you know what I mean? Like is there some niche way to
(24:40):
play into this? Yeah.
So, yeah, absolutely. So I don't know.
That's kind of where I'm landingon this whole thing is like, I
think he can do it. I think it's going to be really
tough. I think it's gonna be really
impressive. I would like this is one of the
things that I think that we wantto leave you with, which is the
value of the comp plan. Yeah.
And understanding that there they you can't even rein in Elon
(25:01):
Musk. Yeah.
And for with a well enough structured plan, something that
appeals to both ego and financesis actually a pretty lethal.
Way one thing I did want to leave you with is that if none
of the 12 trances are achieved, he gets nothing at all.
So it. Will achieve.
Some for for Tesla and for Elon.It's going it's an all or
nothing. I like that.
(25:23):
I think that's the right. Way it's a big risk.
He doesn't need more financial security.
It's about getting to the trillion.
Nobody cares about the anything.Between because you got a
T-shirt, maybe if you. Yeah.
Well, you can go and Vista printand you can order your own
T-shirt. Yeah.
What do they do? They have a party.
Like, I guess I have a pretty freaking good party.
Man, so you ever Seinfeld numberone dad versus world's greatest.
(25:44):
Yeah. 1st. Trillion man.
Anyway. All right, folks, we'll catch
you next week. Let's get it rolling.
Big ideas, money, hustle, smart dream.
So will turn that grinding through a joy.
Ride.
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