September 30, 2025 • 26 mins
In the age of social media CEOs and viral entrepreneurs, is personal fame the secret sauce to startup success?
This episode dives deep into one of today's most pressing questions for founders: whether building a personal brand is essential or just another distraction from building great products. We explore the fine line between authentic leadership and performative fame-seeking that's reshaping how we think about entrepreneurship.
What You'll Discover:
The Fame Factor - Why 93% of consumers now judge companies based on their CEO's social media presence, and what this means for your startup's credibility and funding prospects.
The Authenticity Paradox - How brand loyalty has fundamentally shifted from products to founders' personal stories, and why investors are increasingly betting on the person behind the pitch.
Smart Brand Building - Practical strategies for reducing advertising costs through strategic personal branding, leveraging user-generated content, and navigating the evolving influencer landscape—from mega-celebrities to nano-influencers.
The Long Game - Why building a meaningful personal brand requires consistent effort over time, and how to balance visibility with substance in your entrepreneurial journey.
Whether you're a first-time founder wondering if you need to become the next Elon Musk, or an established entrepreneur questioning your marketing strategy, this conversation challenges conventional wisdom about what it really takes to build consumer trust and drive business success in today's attention economy.
Perfect for: Founders, aspiring entrepreneurs, marketing professionals, and anyone curious about the intersection of personal branding and business success.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The wild story when you're like Cafe Landwer or.
Something. Yeah.
It was taking our parents out for brunch maybe two or three
months ago. Nice.
And a guy in the booth next to said, OHS, I listened to your
podcast. You did you.
Say you were saving the world. No, he did not say that.
Well, let's get it rolling. Big ideas, Money folding,
(00:21):
hustle. Smart dream.
So why turn that grinding to a? Joy Ride.
NVIDIA. What is the CEO's name?
Oh, he's the guy I met with Trump.
Don't know his name? What does he look like?
(00:42):
No idea. No, no.
So yeah, yeah. Jensen Huang.
Yeah. Graham.
Graham scented. Random look it up by the way, I
didn't know. This guy, he's there.
He learned a thing or two behindthe death.
OK. But like honestly, I couldn't, I
wouldn't be able to identify him.
I would. I didn't know his name.
(01:02):
And that's the most valuable company in the world.
So he's not famous, but. Right, dude, But you're just
gonna start with you're wrong, like somebody new in this room.
First thing, what is fame? Somebody has to like one of
three people. That's pretty good.
Did Graham actually know that, or did Graham look that up?
He knew that, he knew that. OK, I don't believe him either,
(01:24):
but it's fine for the purposes of he supports my argument
something. In front of a computer.
He googled that. So like.
This is important I I wanna talkabout this because and that's a
good start, but I think that OK,not everybody listening.
I actually can guarantee that that they are not NVIDIA.
And I think really what I want to challenge today is do
founders need to be famous? And what does that really mean?
(01:45):
And, and it's and I have a lot of feelings on it.
So I'm gonna start with this. First thing is I see we've
talked to a lot of different entrepreneurs in different
capacities at different stages of business.
Just because we do, we try to give back in that kind of stuff,
paying it forward, right? And what we, I see a certain
percentage of them and it's significant that are really
obsessed with going to conferences that are about
(02:06):
entrepreneurship. So they go and they talk to
other entrepreneurs, which is great.
And there's networking value, don't get me wrong, like
there's, there's value there. But I think for every one of
those conferences you going to, you ought to be going to like 10
conferences where you can sell your product more.
Yeah, I'm just really like distribution focus.
Like we're so practical too. Like if you go to a startup
conference and you meet a whole bunch of other startups, you get
(02:28):
0 sales. Yeah, OK.
Well, maybe you find something. There, like, you know, 20.
LinkedIn maybe? Great.
OK. Hard to monetize.
Hear you, I hear you. Half of them are bots, actually
probably like 90% of them are. Quite a significant amount.
Yeah. But like, so I feel like this is
the problem. We're too practical.
We don't get this whole like, fame in, you know, leading a
(02:51):
company, whereas some people arereally good at that.
Stuff. I thought it was just an
exercise in vanity. OK, Like just being honest for
awhile till I looked up until I thought about this idea for an
episode and I started looking upthe data on this.
I thought that this was very much like a It's not just that I
wanna be rich. I wanna be famous.
I wanna be rich and king or queen, you know, I wanna be, I
be. So we always used to say this in
(03:11):
our business. You can be one or the other.
You can either rich or you can be king or queen.
You can't be both. Can't be both.
Yeah. And I think I always like, well,
people are trying to be both or find a pathway to maybe one will
facilitate the other, right? Potentially right.
And so, yeah, it turns out I'm just like flat wrong.
OK, so when I looked at the dataon this, so I was like, why?
Why personal branding matters more than ever is that 93% of
(03:34):
consumers say CEO social media engagement influences how they
perceive company values. Yeah, well, 76% of executives
believe an active social CEO boosts brand credibility.
And investors aren't just backing the idea, they're
actually investing in people. Recent study found that 80 to
87% of investors say a founders personal credibility obviously
impacts funding decisions. So it's like it's on both sides
(03:58):
of the coin here. But I also feel like, OK, like,
let's break that down for a second.
Cause I wanna understand this, this data a little bit more.
So 93% of consumers say that the, it influences how they
perceive company values. So I guess what it is, is I
would say as a high level comment, people don't trust
brands. OK, OK, I think that's something
that's really changed. Like if you were to talk to our
(04:19):
parents, you know, like our mom bought the same brand of, I
don't know, whatever Kraft Mac and cheese forever, right?
Like to this day, OK, very brandloyal, very much invest like
invested almost in these brands over time.
What was the alternative though?Like you get the craft or you
get like the no name brand? Like this is a bad example.
(04:40):
OK, really right on the show. OK, but like there's gotta
there's a series of products, OK, ketchup and catsup.
I don't know, you're killing me.But like something out there
where it's like they they are brand loyal, whereas I think
actually this generation is highly not brand loyal, both
millennials and Gen. Z.
And so, but they're loyal to thefact.
(05:01):
They're loyal to, they become brand loyal via the founder, via
the influence that a founder canhave on basically amplification
of the mission of the company and the authenticity of whatever
the company is trying to do. So I think this is really
fascinating though, right? It's like before you would trust
a brand based on the commercial,maybe the quality of the
packaging or whatever. I think nowadays it starts a lot
(05:23):
more with, I'm gonna go on TikTok, I'm gonna look at this
brand. Do they look authentic?
And then I'm gonna believe in the brand's OK, And then I'm
gonna try the product and does it continue?
Does it does the values that that person is talking about,
that CEO that found out whatever, does that deliver all
the way through to the product? OK, I think this is really
interesting. That's interesting.
I don't know where I land on this.
(05:43):
I'm far too practical. Actually, I do have a bit of a
story that kind of ties into thewhat you're saying.
So I've stopped buying Amazon Basics T-shirts because
everybody made fun of me. Yeah, I sold.
I've actually got them all up for for rent on racks.
Oh, really? Wow.
Not everything. I would love that.
They won't go anywhere. I think they're just gonna sit
there. Yeah.
(06:05):
No, so actually you're lovely. Wife suggested I try True
Classic so I've ordered T-shirtsand wearing one now.
How much of those? Those are like $80 T-shirts.
No, they're definitely not. Oh, they're definitely not.
They're actually pretty good forus and stuff like that.
Yeah, but. Tell me the number.
So I I was gonna buy some more because actually I've had them
now for a little while. They're starting to look a
(06:26):
little ratty. So I was gonna ask some more.
Yeah, yeah, I went on to the true.
I got like an e-mail from true Classic.
I went in and clicked it. I was gonna buy the like, I
don't know, Bachelor 10 pack because that's what I buy.
I buy my clothes like I find thething I like and then I get
every colour and and trip fit. So it's going to be like the
Bachelor 10 pack from them. Put it in the cart and then I
got distracted when did something else and then I got
(06:48):
this e-mail from the CEO, a special message from the CEO of
True. Class of shit.
That is a nice bump e-mail. Curry, Curry, Curry.
Or actually I think it's Ryan orsomething like that.
And Garry's might think there's no way they can click it and it
pops up and it's like the CEO sitting at his desk and like a
vertical video. And he goes, Chris, why didn't
you buy that? Ticket.
(07:08):
You're No way. Yeah.
Are you kidding me? That's your name.
Yeah, he said my name in it, which was a little bit creepy,
but then I'm like, actually it'sa pretty common name.
Yeah. Do you think they did like a
tape? Is it a I or is it like a take
of like Chris, Gary, David, Joanne, Julia it looked like.
It looked like a single. They filmed for days.
They looked like a single shot OK, but and he said, Chris, we
(07:32):
gotta buy. That.
That's gotta be right. Right, OK, Yeah.
So I I don't know, I look carefully and my AI detector
didn't sense. AI did it really cut fast to
like a different shot? Like no, I did.
It was a single shot, dude. That's really it looked like,
you know, he was doing the, you know, like.
It was. It was.
It looked like he was holding his.
It was a vertical video, but it was further away, so he he, he
was like sitting at a desk. Or something.
(07:52):
Oh man, I love that. That's such a good.
Idea, but at the same time it was also wow creepy that he said
my name like you're watching what I put my cart.
Like, like, but you know he's not.
Really. No, I know.
He's like, he's just sitting there like, come on.
Buy the T-shirts. His call package is basically
like how many open carts could he like close?
(08:14):
Yeah, so like so going back to the founder need to be famous.
So I now know that the name of the founder is.
Did you look him up after? Ryan or you?
Don't really know his name clearly.
Yeah, but I, I know sort of whathe looks like, but like it's.
So is that part of this trend? Is that like what they're doing,
they're trying to leverage this trend of like our CEO has to be
the face of the brand and has tohave people like the yeah, yo,
(08:37):
and people follow the CEO so they buy more T-shirts.
I. Think it's a thing.
I think like I talked to a lot of like, I'm part of Hampton,
which is like Sam, part social network.
Yeah, they're like for founders there.
And there's a whole bunch of them here in Toronto.
Like whenever I meet with them, like most of them, like, yeah, I
gotta do this now. You know, they've got like they
got apps on their phone that arelike 4 like teleprompter.
(08:58):
Yeah. So they'll like write something
really quick and then they're like reading it like kind of
like looking into the phone. Yeah, but they're reading
something, but it doesn't look like it.
And they're just, they're rolling and they're just doing
something. They upload.
That's part of their thing, but that's they gotta do this.
Like this has become incredibly.And I wonder like how much this
is in because like, I imagine doing this for like a Chevy
police and then being like, whatthe hell is this?
So I think there's like a demographic question of your
(09:18):
customer and like social media usage of your customer, but I
assume it's becoming increasingly common.
And so I and I think it's becoming table stakes.
Like I think you actually have to do this to.
Be credible. You're the chief podcast officer
on this podcast, have you? But you forget it.
Have you been identified in public as you know?
What do you mean as somebody recognized me?
(09:38):
Yeah, from the show. Or something.
Oh no. That's happened this.
Happened to. You.
I know. Did you know this?
This is a wild story when you'relike Cafe Landwer or.
Something. Yeah.
It was taking our parents out for brunch maybe two or three
months ago. Nice.
And a guy in the booth next to you said, oh, I listened to your
podcast. You did you.
Say you were saving the world. No, he did not say that.
(10:01):
Oh, you told me that. You know what?
I totally blew it. Cause like, I didn't know.
Yeah, that this could. Ask him where?
Who are you? Where did you come from?
Did you find this one? Did you?
Listen, I was like. Oh, what do you like about it?
Nothing. This guy, you got nothing out of
it. You ran.
I was very caught off guard. It does.
Confirm what I already know, which is of the two of us,
you're the more popular one because you're a nice guy.
(10:23):
I'm just the guy who just yells into the micro.
People just feel sad for me. So yeah, awkward, weird,
definitely. Yeah, like just no, no, I think
they're just like, you have to deal with that Dave guy.
All the time. We like Chris.
So I like Bart. He needs a friend.
Yeah. So like I want more, I'm gonna
throw more data at you. So a couple of things are kind
(10:46):
of important. There was actually a tangible
business benefits around this was not just like a table like
this, like not just that you have to do it, but it's actually
a very good idea. So other things that happen is
that generally you actually you can reduce the need for ad spam
because you're doing more content that's just from the CEO
and obviously they're incentivized for it.
You attract more talent this way.
It unlocks higher value opportunities because people
(11:07):
trust the CEO in a different kind of way.
Yeah. So there's like, a weird, like,
like, component to it where, like, there's spin-off benefits
beyond purchase of the product. And they said that among Fortune
250 companies, CEO's with stronger personal brands see the
company share price rise 80% faster than others.
So there's like, a real, like, cult of personality behind this.
(11:28):
Like, you people buy into you asthe leader of that company.
And by the way, if you're a CEO of one of those companies, I
also think that protects your job or gives you access.
To the next one, it definitely like if you have a following and
like that definitely brings how.Many boards are worried about
how powerful their CEO's are on.Social media.
Yeah, like the zoom zoom kit forMazda.
(11:48):
They can that kid cause he's just wielding too much.
Power. But like, I can just imagine
that conversation. But but I think this is a it's
surreal. It's the real deal, though, that
like this is actually like a legitimately useful and
important thing. So I think the first take away
for anyway listening is like, you should be doing this.
Yeah, but don't start a businesspodcast.
It's really not a good idea. But other than that, like I
(12:09):
think like being on TikTok talking about what you're doing
or being on like. Instagram like had a hard time
with this cause I don't love theidea of sort of being as you can
tell it's super awkward. Yeah, I don't like it that much
either, despite us having a podcast.
Yeah, but. So for your stealth thing, are
you gonna be the face of your? Product OK, like the key I think
for any of the social media marketing like anybody or one of
(12:30):
the keys that I think most people tell you is that you need
user generated content like you need other people to do videos
off of your videos or off of your stuff.
Yeah and so I think there's a table stakes of me being
slightly visible. But then after that I really
that's just because I want people to be able to come and
know that I'm legit and the company's legit right.
But then after that I I don't really want to go out of my way,
(12:50):
which I think conversely will actually make me more credible.
You know what I mean? Like there's a scarcity effect I
think too like if you do it lessoften, like there's a whole
bunch of strategies. Scott Galloway talks about this.
So he had he just had August free.
No, Scott free August on all on his whole platform and people
were like freaking out because they were like, we need Scott
back. Just kind of sucks for all the
(13:12):
other Co hosts and all those like various shows.
But and then he comes back and everybody's like super pumped
and I'm sure they saw huge spikein their numbers again.
But there's something about scarcity that I think it's
valuable. Yeah, and a lot of these plays.
I think like I'll be out there. But not too out there.
OK, you know what I mean? That's good.
And I think I wanna be really just focus on my values, the
brand values and the product. I don't want to be like and this
(13:34):
is what I think about Elon Musk.That's the this.
Platform is saying somebody addsit to their shopping cart and
doesn't check out or you gonna send them?
You. Haven't you bought?
I am interested in this, but I have two thoughts on this, I
think. What do you think is more
effective the Chris, you know the thing you got or rather than
like a marketing e-mail, obviously coming from the
(13:55):
shopping cart, like like your Shopify thing, which is like a
just a checkbox feature. What is like a personal e-mail
like that? Obviously you wrote like not AI.
It kind of looks shitty, you know what I mean?
Like kind of looks like it's notfor that platform.
Looks like it just came from my Gmail.
Like I just fired it to you. Yeah, like obviously corporate
Gmail, but like, you know, I mean like came to you.
You're worried that might work too for for different.
(14:16):
People So when I got this e-mail, I gotta level with you.
Like having my name in it definitely made me scream it
whatever. Like for real like the guy sent
me a. Video like what?
That's. Amazing.
But the part of me was like, where's the coupon?
Come on. Sweeten the deal like there if
he had if if he wanted me to actually.
So I don't think I checked out even though he sent me a.
(14:38):
Person I don't think I would give you a coupon either really
yeah I mean giving a couple the people game that constantly like
I. Think, I think, actually I think
I do add things to cards and then just leave.
And do you send me a coupon? For how long?
How long do you wait an hour? No, like 48 hours I'd say. 02
days wow. I think coupons are destroyers
(14:58):
of value, right? Like, I think like, for sure
people that happened in all basically all clothing brands.
You don't have this thing where you pop on the website and you
wait 10 seconds, hits you up with the welcome, Here's your
15%. Yeah.
Sign up for the e-mail address bonus.
Cool. Put it in.
Make your purchase 15% off, go back to the e-mail, unsubscribe.
See you later. Yeah.
What's interesting is my. Wife does that all the.
(15:19):
Time. Yeah, yeah, she's used my phone
number on many. Websites, multiple e-mail
accounts, multiple phone numbers.
She's the. Destroyer of margins, yeah.
But you know, what's interestingis what, if you remember how,
like Rolex, they don't really sell watches anymore.
They sell a waiting list. Yeah, what where you?
Could you build a brand where it's like, hey, like
(15:39):
everything's like sold out and you can get on the waiting list
and we'll e-mail you when you get your chance to order your
stuff. Does that work in the clothing
market or is that just? I don't think so because there's
just so much competition and it's so transactional and
there's like. I just go somewhere else and.
Get there's very few brands, theclothing that people actually
trust. Yeah, I think yeah, like I think
(16:02):
like Lululemon. Amazon.
Sara America, Amazon Basics, quality product.
So like there's like a handful that are like really legit.
Maybe the ones that also have retail stores carry a little bit
more weight. But I think most of the time
it's like I'll figure this out, or I'll find it on another site,
or I'll find it on Amazon, or I'll find it elsewhere.
(16:25):
Oh, didn't see you there. I'm just reading Startup
Different, my book to help you get to your multimillion dollar
business. You can find it on Amazon,
Audible, and Kindle, right? You know, like I, I think I
remember I was on a panel at Startup Fest in Montreal a
couple months ago, which was fantastic.
(16:46):
By the way, I highly recommend you check it out if you're going
to do 1 entrepreneurship conference in the year.
And it's actual. Conferences, but they but though
I was on a panel and there was aventure capitalist next to me
and she was great because she was like so ruthless.
So like, I don't wanna say she was dream crushing, but she was
definitely adding a good dose ofreality.
I just got to sit there and be the good cop, the optimist, but
(17:08):
but there was somebody who had aclothing brand and they're
talking about and she's like, you have to discount, like you
cannot go to market that discounts like you will fail you
just like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how good the
clothes are, like whatever, if you're starting out, you must do
this right. Those kind of fascinating.
So I think there's a there's a lot that going into this too,
like how much to charge for yourproduct?
What nice are you targeting? How well can you delineate and
(17:31):
and differentiate in the specific clothing you like?
That's a very difficult market. OK, so let's go back to.
So we've been talking about sortof like founder starting a
business and then like using their social media, making
themselves famous to try and drive the brand awareness.
Yeah. What about the other way around?
Sort of like what if you are famous and then you go and you
start a brand? I think there's tons of.
(17:52):
This already happens. This is Yeah, this is happening
more and more all the time. I feel like I can see Grams
looking at me like you better talk about this like it's
happening. Like this is like Rihanna made
like a billion dollars, like offthe brand most nowadays rather
than OK, so here's another thingfor anybody thinking, because
I'm thinking about all this DC commerce stuff these days.
Yeah. So another thing about this is
(18:12):
that people are generally more tired of big audience
influencers because they tend tobe willing to sell just about
anything, right? And they have such a broad
audience that it kind of can work.
And people are like more burnt out of hearing about these
messages. What you'll see more often now
is a big level influencer spinning out a new product.
(18:33):
So they're just going and just going to skip the, the, the
working with somebody and just try to make the product go
themselves. I think Mr. Beast was talking
about launching a smartphone. I think the other day that yeah,
getting nods there from grams. So like there's there's that
kind of behavior happening. So if you're going to market in
DC in ecom, I think what you want to be looking for is these
(18:54):
nano influencers. So we're kind of weird here in
Canada. We don't have TikTok shop
because our governments have ideas about China and about
TikTok for better for us. But in the United States have
TikTok shop and it's people. Basically what happens is you,
you work with these nano influencers, right, 30,000
influence 30,000 followers or more usually.
(19:15):
And like there's there's ways that you can basically pay them
to just talk to your message andhave your talking point and they
get paid for it. And this is the the way to go to
market. This is a very appealing way to
go to market these days and people are spending really big
money and it's really easy to buy.
It's basically like you're looking at the video of the CEO
on their TikTok page. It's gone viral or it's or
(19:36):
whatever. You're just there and swipe to
the right to buy from them. It's right there listing right
like it's it's an interesting intersection of social media and
Amazon. Like if Amazon had a social
network where people dance, not Just Dance anymore TikTok, but
things are happening and and then you.
Couldn't they feel like they could copy?
That because like Gen. Z, honestly I've used a lot of
(20:00):
Amazon stuff and there's a lot of legacy code.
There doom scroll on Amazon likethey would have to get all that
like content that's in there that you know, has people.
I think it's because Tick Tock pulled people in with awesome,
funny content. Yeah, like entertainment.
They're like and. Then they're like why Jerry
sells. Something like that in or video
that's like essentially an ad. Or sponsored or they mentioning
you know. Click here to.
(20:20):
Buy some of them are very compelling.
Yeah, you watch how people, the people who are really good at
making that user generated content, these, these good
influencers doing this stuff arereally convincing that and they
deliver it really well. And I've bought so much oil of
oregano it's unbelievable. Exactly.
Yeah, you, I think you showed methat video.
You just yeah, like the anyway, the point though, is that like
(20:42):
it's it's I think that's anotherreason why it's also important.
I mean, this is kind of moving away from like the big
corporation. You need to be a famous CEO kind
of thing and more to like you'rea smaller company and you're
trying to get off the ground. The table sticks to this is that
you need to be having a presencethere so that people can
validate that, hey, that was good entertainment first.
(21:02):
Hey, this is kind of legit. What is this thing?
Hey, the person that runs it seems to be aligned with the
values of this. Oh, I can buy.
It right now, yeah. It's all happening right there
yeah like the your friction to purchase is so much lower right.
And I think that's really why it's so compelling.
And they're taking a run at Amazon.
Yeah. You know, it's funny, I've been
talking to a lot of people againin this space.
(21:23):
Another thing you do is the three PPL so third party
logistics company so that, you know, basically you don't have
to manage box in your crap. And you know, and there's one
that's fulfilled by TikTok and they yeah, they're doing.
They have warehouses. They are working with other
three PL's but they're subsidizing it.
No, no waiting list like you wouldn't believe.
(21:43):
Huh. You really can't do.
It OHT because, like, you are somany people trying to do because
it's such an impact on their margin, right?
But I mean, if they get that offthe ground in a meaningful way,
I'm sure they're building their own warehouses, too.
Yeah. Then all of a sudden you're
like, oh, wait, this is Amazon with a social network plugged
into it. That's highly entertaining.
Yeah. Like, if I'm Amazon, I'm
legitimately worried about my business.
(22:03):
Wow. I think this is a real thing.
Yeah. Except in Canada.
Except in Canada, because we suck.
It's only like a tariff thing. It's just like we're worried
about China in general. So, you know, we're worried
about. Chinese And one last thing I
wanted to just mention here too though, is that for anybody
who's out there as a founder andis looking for venture capital
(22:23):
funding, this is another thing that that as we mentioned, we
just touched on it for a second there earlier, but this is
actually a thing that can contribute to a successful raise
is how well known you are because I think for a couple of
reasons, depends on your product.
Naturally, it's going to show that people are probably willing
to buy, but also it's just easier to invest in people that
seem to have a way at getting people interested in whatever
(22:45):
they're talking about, right? Like there's a natural amount of
like marketing insights that this person has that I think
probably makes a venture CapitalGroup more comfortable.
Oh, they just see you have a really good social media
presence. You have all these followers,
you market yourself really well.That makes you more valuable.
Let's put it in a context that'sprobably unlikely, but helpful,
I think, as an example, book deals.
Yeah, if you have a big following, you're gonna get a
(23:08):
book deal. Right, right.
If you don't have a big following, you're not gonna get
a book deal. Yeah, yeah, Easy enough.
Yeah. And yeah, like, because.
They know about that all the time, too.
Yeah, so and so. That's something came out with
this stupid book about Matt Sundeen.
Like I love Matt Sunday, great hockey player, but like, is he
an author? Like because yeah, like
immediately like every. Like in the head, like 1000.
(23:29):
Times Bookstore, if those even still exist.
But like, every like, airport has that book sitting there.
Yeah, when you walk into the cause, I know you're looking for
something to read on an airplane.
Right. If you're famous, you're better
off starting a business. Yeah, period.
Yeah. Any any people who are
influencers now who aren't starting a business, I'm always
just like, but why? This kind of interesting.
I was talking to our brother Mike, and he was.
(23:51):
Because it's a lot of effort to be right.
Yeah, he was. He was talking about how there's
like stock and there's flow, OK.And so like stock would be like
Matt Sundeen has built a name for himself.
So he built up a lot of stock brand equity in his brand,
right, Brand equity. And then and then flow is more
like what you actually produce, like scoring goals, you know,
doing all that sort of stuff as you're OK, right.
(24:12):
So, and for, you know, a lot of people, you know, so for us, for
instance, so we were like, we, we were acquired, we had a lot
of stock, but we sold it right? And we signed an non compete and
all those types of things. So we couldn't go into that
space where we were sort of known and do sort of the same
thing. We we like essentially sold all
of our stock. So then we have to start again
(24:35):
by building flow to build up that stock and the next thing.
So what you're saying is with companies that are founders that
aren't famous to begin with, as you start off you are building
stock, yeah, in your personal brand that hopefully at some
later date you can then maybe you're not still doing whatever
you were started doing. But you can take that to some
other market, spin off that and and maintain that stock or start
(24:58):
to use that stock leverage. I, I think like it goes back to
one thing that I kind of regret about our, our first business,
which is I and this is a little bit different, but I think
similar but different that I just didn't care about
networking outside of our. Meeting customers.
Like I I network to to get deals, but I think there is some
value to be kind of outside that.
And I think that this data is like a logical extension of
(25:18):
that. Like you should be appealing to
an audience of people that like you and buy into what you're
doing and your values and your business should align with your
values too. Obviously, like that doesn't
make sense that you would be running a business that doesn't
align with your values like, or if it does, you are an anomaly
of an anomaly. So I think like with that in
mind, yeah, you're going to be able to keep that audience.
I think that's a good point. I think what are we saying here?
(25:41):
Do you have to be famous or on the road to fame start a
business and and and be successful?
Like, no, you don't, but it really, really, really.
You should start. You should try to be famous.
You should try start trying to try your brand.
And by the way, this is hard. Yeah, take it from us.
Yeah, it's really, really difficult.
And it will take you years. It is a long game.
(26:02):
You will not. Go viral.
I I would say to you don't bother spending money.
I would try and do everything organically.
I don't think spending money to do this works.
Or you're just gonna get bots. You're gonna get the silly fake
followers, things like that. Focus on actual organic content.
Keep keep at it. Keep consistent effort on it.
Maybe you get a few that go viral that pick up some traction
(26:24):
then it. Starts to work, understand?
You be working on this for 10 years.
Yeah, as long as you work on your business, you're gonna be
working on this. Yep.
Yep. Absolutely alright, sound
advice. We wrapped it up, folks.
We'll catch you next week. Let's get it rolling.
Big ideas Money folding hustle. Smart dream.
So why turn that grind into a? Joy Ride.
The wild story when you're like Cafe Landwer or.
Something. Yeah.
It was taking our parents out for brunch maybe two or three
months ago. Nice.
And a guy in the booth next to said, OHS, I listened to your
podcast. You did you.
Say you were saving the world. No, he did not say that.
Well, let's get it rolling. Big ideas, Money folding,
(00:21):
hustle. Smart dream.
So why turn that grinding to a? Joy Ride.
NVIDIA. What is the CEO's name?
Oh, he's the guy I met with Trump.
Don't know his name? What does he look like?
(00:42):
No idea. No, no.
So yeah, yeah. Jensen Huang.
Yeah. Graham.
Graham scented. Random look it up by the way, I
didn't know. This guy, he's there.
He learned a thing or two behindthe death.
OK. But like honestly, I couldn't, I
wouldn't be able to identify him.
I would. I didn't know his name.
(01:02):
And that's the most valuable company in the world.
So he's not famous, but. Right, dude, But you're just
gonna start with you're wrong, like somebody new in this room.
First thing, what is fame? Somebody has to like one of
three people. That's pretty good.
Did Graham actually know that, or did Graham look that up?
He knew that, he knew that. OK, I don't believe him either,
(01:24):
but it's fine for the purposes of he supports my argument
something. In front of a computer.
He googled that. So like.
This is important I I wanna talkabout this because and that's a
good start, but I think that OK,not everybody listening.
I actually can guarantee that that they are not NVIDIA.
And I think really what I want to challenge today is do
founders need to be famous? And what does that really mean?
(01:45):
And, and it's and I have a lot of feelings on it.
So I'm gonna start with this. First thing is I see we've
talked to a lot of different entrepreneurs in different
capacities at different stages of business.
Just because we do, we try to give back in that kind of stuff,
paying it forward, right? And what we, I see a certain
percentage of them and it's significant that are really
obsessed with going to conferences that are about
(02:06):
entrepreneurship. So they go and they talk to
other entrepreneurs, which is great.
And there's networking value, don't get me wrong, like
there's, there's value there. But I think for every one of
those conferences you going to, you ought to be going to like 10
conferences where you can sell your product more.
Yeah, I'm just really like distribution focus.
Like we're so practical too. Like if you go to a startup
conference and you meet a whole bunch of other startups, you get
(02:28):
0 sales. Yeah, OK.
Well, maybe you find something. There, like, you know, 20.
LinkedIn maybe? Great.
OK. Hard to monetize.
Hear you, I hear you. Half of them are bots, actually
probably like 90% of them are. Quite a significant amount.
Yeah. But like, so I feel like this is
the problem. We're too practical.
We don't get this whole like, fame in, you know, leading a
(02:51):
company, whereas some people arereally good at that.
Stuff. I thought it was just an
exercise in vanity. OK, Like just being honest for
awhile till I looked up until I thought about this idea for an
episode and I started looking upthe data on this.
I thought that this was very much like a It's not just that I
wanna be rich. I wanna be famous.
I wanna be rich and king or queen, you know, I wanna be, I
be. So we always used to say this in
(03:11):
our business. You can be one or the other.
You can either rich or you can be king or queen.
You can't be both. Can't be both.
Yeah. And I think I always like, well,
people are trying to be both or find a pathway to maybe one will
facilitate the other, right? Potentially right.
And so, yeah, it turns out I'm just like flat wrong.
OK, so when I looked at the dataon this, so I was like, why?
Why personal branding matters more than ever is that 93% of
(03:34):
consumers say CEO social media engagement influences how they
perceive company values. Yeah, well, 76% of executives
believe an active social CEO boosts brand credibility.
And investors aren't just backing the idea, they're
actually investing in people. Recent study found that 80 to
87% of investors say a founders personal credibility obviously
impacts funding decisions. So it's like it's on both sides
(03:58):
of the coin here. But I also feel like, OK, like,
let's break that down for a second.
Cause I wanna understand this, this data a little bit more.
So 93% of consumers say that the, it influences how they
perceive company values. So I guess what it is, is I
would say as a high level comment, people don't trust
brands. OK, OK, I think that's something
that's really changed. Like if you were to talk to our
(04:19):
parents, you know, like our mom bought the same brand of, I
don't know, whatever Kraft Mac and cheese forever, right?
Like to this day, OK, very brandloyal, very much invest like
invested almost in these brands over time.
What was the alternative though?Like you get the craft or you
get like the no name brand? Like this is a bad example.
(04:40):
OK, really right on the show. OK, but like there's gotta
there's a series of products, OK, ketchup and catsup.
I don't know, you're killing me.But like something out there
where it's like they they are brand loyal, whereas I think
actually this generation is highly not brand loyal, both
millennials and Gen. Z.
And so, but they're loyal to thefact.
(05:01):
They're loyal to, they become brand loyal via the founder, via
the influence that a founder canhave on basically amplification
of the mission of the company and the authenticity of whatever
the company is trying to do. So I think this is really
fascinating though, right? It's like before you would trust
a brand based on the commercial,maybe the quality of the
packaging or whatever. I think nowadays it starts a lot
(05:23):
more with, I'm gonna go on TikTok, I'm gonna look at this
brand. Do they look authentic?
And then I'm gonna believe in the brand's OK, And then I'm
gonna try the product and does it continue?
Does it does the values that that person is talking about,
that CEO that found out whatever, does that deliver all
the way through to the product? OK, I think this is really
interesting. That's interesting.
I don't know where I land on this.
(05:43):
I'm far too practical. Actually, I do have a bit of a
story that kind of ties into thewhat you're saying.
So I've stopped buying Amazon Basics T-shirts because
everybody made fun of me. Yeah, I sold.
I've actually got them all up for for rent on racks.
Oh, really? Wow.
Not everything. I would love that.
They won't go anywhere. I think they're just gonna sit
there. Yeah.
(06:05):
No, so actually you're lovely. Wife suggested I try True
Classic so I've ordered T-shirtsand wearing one now.
How much of those? Those are like $80 T-shirts.
No, they're definitely not. Oh, they're definitely not.
They're actually pretty good forus and stuff like that.
Yeah, but. Tell me the number.
So I I was gonna buy some more because actually I've had them
now for a little while. They're starting to look a
(06:26):
little ratty. So I was gonna ask some more.
Yeah, yeah, I went on to the true.
I got like an e-mail from true Classic.
I went in and clicked it. I was gonna buy the like, I
don't know, Bachelor 10 pack because that's what I buy.
I buy my clothes like I find thething I like and then I get
every colour and and trip fit. So it's going to be like the
Bachelor 10 pack from them. Put it in the cart and then I
got distracted when did something else and then I got
(06:48):
this e-mail from the CEO, a special message from the CEO of
True. Class of shit.
That is a nice bump e-mail. Curry, Curry, Curry.
Or actually I think it's Ryan orsomething like that.
And Garry's might think there's no way they can click it and it
pops up and it's like the CEO sitting at his desk and like a
vertical video. And he goes, Chris, why didn't
you buy that? Ticket.
(07:08):
You're No way. Yeah.
Are you kidding me? That's your name.
Yeah, he said my name in it, which was a little bit creepy,
but then I'm like, actually it'sa pretty common name.
Yeah. Do you think they did like a
tape? Is it a I or is it like a take
of like Chris, Gary, David, Joanne, Julia it looked like.
It looked like a single. They filmed for days.
They looked like a single shot OK, but and he said, Chris, we
(07:32):
gotta buy. That.
That's gotta be right. Right, OK, Yeah.
So I I don't know, I look carefully and my AI detector
didn't sense. AI did it really cut fast to
like a different shot? Like no, I did.
It was a single shot, dude. That's really it looked like,
you know, he was doing the, you know, like.
It was. It was.
It looked like he was holding his.
It was a vertical video, but it was further away, so he he, he
was like sitting at a desk. Or something.
(07:52):
Oh man, I love that. That's such a good.
Idea, but at the same time it was also wow creepy that he said
my name like you're watching what I put my cart.
Like, like, but you know he's not.
Really. No, I know.
He's like, he's just sitting there like, come on.
Buy the T-shirts. His call package is basically
like how many open carts could he like close?
(08:14):
Yeah, so like so going back to the founder need to be famous.
So I now know that the name of the founder is.
Did you look him up after? Ryan or you?
Don't really know his name clearly.
Yeah, but I, I know sort of whathe looks like, but like it's.
So is that part of this trend? Is that like what they're doing,
they're trying to leverage this trend of like our CEO has to be
the face of the brand and has tohave people like the yeah, yo,
(08:37):
and people follow the CEO so they buy more T-shirts.
I. Think it's a thing.
I think like I talked to a lot of like, I'm part of Hampton,
which is like Sam, part social network.
Yeah, they're like for founders there.
And there's a whole bunch of them here in Toronto.
Like whenever I meet with them, like most of them, like, yeah, I
gotta do this now. You know, they've got like they
got apps on their phone that arelike 4 like teleprompter.
(08:58):
Yeah. So they'll like write something
really quick and then they're like reading it like kind of
like looking into the phone. Yeah, but they're reading
something, but it doesn't look like it.
And they're just, they're rolling and they're just doing
something. They upload.
That's part of their thing, but that's they gotta do this.
Like this has become incredibly.And I wonder like how much this
is in because like, I imagine doing this for like a Chevy
police and then being like, whatthe hell is this?
So I think there's like a demographic question of your
(09:18):
customer and like social media usage of your customer, but I
assume it's becoming increasingly common.
And so I and I think it's becoming table stakes.
Like I think you actually have to do this to.
Be credible. You're the chief podcast officer
on this podcast, have you? But you forget it.
Have you been identified in public as you know?
What do you mean as somebody recognized me?
(09:38):
Yeah, from the show. Or something.
Oh no. That's happened this.
Happened to. You.
I know. Did you know this?
This is a wild story when you'relike Cafe Landwer or.
Something. Yeah.
It was taking our parents out for brunch maybe two or three
months ago. Nice.
And a guy in the booth next to you said, oh, I listened to your
podcast. You did you.
Say you were saving the world. No, he did not say that.
(10:01):
Oh, you told me that. You know what?
I totally blew it. Cause like, I didn't know.
Yeah, that this could. Ask him where?
Who are you? Where did you come from?
Did you find this one? Did you?
Listen, I was like. Oh, what do you like about it?
Nothing. This guy, you got nothing out of
it. You ran.
I was very caught off guard. It does.
Confirm what I already know, which is of the two of us,
you're the more popular one because you're a nice guy.
(10:23):
I'm just the guy who just yells into the micro.
People just feel sad for me. So yeah, awkward, weird,
definitely. Yeah, like just no, no, I think
they're just like, you have to deal with that Dave guy.
All the time. We like Chris.
So I like Bart. He needs a friend.
Yeah. So like I want more, I'm gonna
throw more data at you. So a couple of things are kind
(10:46):
of important. There was actually a tangible
business benefits around this was not just like a table like
this, like not just that you have to do it, but it's actually
a very good idea. So other things that happen is
that generally you actually you can reduce the need for ad spam
because you're doing more content that's just from the CEO
and obviously they're incentivized for it.
You attract more talent this way.
It unlocks higher value opportunities because people
(11:07):
trust the CEO in a different kind of way.
Yeah. So there's like, a weird, like,
like, component to it where, like, there's spin-off benefits
beyond purchase of the product. And they said that among Fortune
250 companies, CEO's with stronger personal brands see the
company share price rise 80% faster than others.
So there's like, a real, like, cult of personality behind this.
(11:28):
Like, you people buy into you asthe leader of that company.
And by the way, if you're a CEO of one of those companies, I
also think that protects your job or gives you access.
To the next one, it definitely like if you have a following and
like that definitely brings how.Many boards are worried about
how powerful their CEO's are on.Social media.
Yeah, like the zoom zoom kit forMazda.
(11:48):
They can that kid cause he's just wielding too much.
Power. But like, I can just imagine
that conversation. But but I think this is a it's
surreal. It's the real deal, though, that
like this is actually like a legitimately useful and
important thing. So I think the first take away
for anyway listening is like, you should be doing this.
Yeah, but don't start a businesspodcast.
It's really not a good idea. But other than that, like I
(12:09):
think like being on TikTok talking about what you're doing
or being on like. Instagram like had a hard time
with this cause I don't love theidea of sort of being as you can
tell it's super awkward. Yeah, I don't like it that much
either, despite us having a podcast.
Yeah, but. So for your stealth thing, are
you gonna be the face of your? Product OK, like the key I think
for any of the social media marketing like anybody or one of
(12:30):
the keys that I think most people tell you is that you need
user generated content like you need other people to do videos
off of your videos or off of your stuff.
Yeah and so I think there's a table stakes of me being
slightly visible. But then after that I really
that's just because I want people to be able to come and
know that I'm legit and the company's legit right.
But then after that I I don't really want to go out of my way,
(12:50):
which I think conversely will actually make me more credible.
You know what I mean? Like there's a scarcity effect I
think too like if you do it lessoften, like there's a whole
bunch of strategies. Scott Galloway talks about this.
So he had he just had August free.
No, Scott free August on all on his whole platform and people
were like freaking out because they were like, we need Scott
back. Just kind of sucks for all the
(13:12):
other Co hosts and all those like various shows.
But and then he comes back and everybody's like super pumped
and I'm sure they saw huge spikein their numbers again.
But there's something about scarcity that I think it's
valuable. Yeah, and a lot of these plays.
I think like I'll be out there. But not too out there.
OK, you know what I mean? That's good.
And I think I wanna be really just focus on my values, the
brand values and the product. I don't want to be like and this
(13:34):
is what I think about Elon Musk.That's the this.
Platform is saying somebody addsit to their shopping cart and
doesn't check out or you gonna send them?
You. Haven't you bought?
I am interested in this, but I have two thoughts on this, I
think. What do you think is more
effective the Chris, you know the thing you got or rather than
like a marketing e-mail, obviously coming from the
(13:55):
shopping cart, like like your Shopify thing, which is like a
just a checkbox feature. What is like a personal e-mail
like that? Obviously you wrote like not AI.
It kind of looks shitty, you know what I mean?
Like kind of looks like it's notfor that platform.
Looks like it just came from my Gmail.
Like I just fired it to you. Yeah, like obviously corporate
Gmail, but like, you know, I mean like came to you.
You're worried that might work too for for different.
(14:16):
People So when I got this e-mail, I gotta level with you.
Like having my name in it definitely made me scream it
whatever. Like for real like the guy sent
me a. Video like what?
That's. Amazing.
But the part of me was like, where's the coupon?
Come on. Sweeten the deal like there if
he had if if he wanted me to actually.
So I don't think I checked out even though he sent me a.
(14:38):
Person I don't think I would give you a coupon either really
yeah I mean giving a couple the people game that constantly like
I. Think, I think, actually I think
I do add things to cards and then just leave.
And do you send me a coupon? For how long?
How long do you wait an hour? No, like 48 hours I'd say. 02
days wow. I think coupons are destroyers
(14:58):
of value, right? Like, I think like, for sure
people that happened in all basically all clothing brands.
You don't have this thing where you pop on the website and you
wait 10 seconds, hits you up with the welcome, Here's your
15%. Yeah.
Sign up for the e-mail address bonus.
Cool. Put it in.
Make your purchase 15% off, go back to the e-mail, unsubscribe.
See you later. Yeah.
What's interesting is my. Wife does that all the.
(15:19):
Time. Yeah, yeah, she's used my phone
number on many. Websites, multiple e-mail
accounts, multiple phone numbers.
She's the. Destroyer of margins, yeah.
But you know, what's interestingis what, if you remember how,
like Rolex, they don't really sell watches anymore.
They sell a waiting list. Yeah, what where you?
Could you build a brand where it's like, hey, like
(15:39):
everything's like sold out and you can get on the waiting list
and we'll e-mail you when you get your chance to order your
stuff. Does that work in the clothing
market or is that just? I don't think so because there's
just so much competition and it's so transactional and
there's like. I just go somewhere else and.
Get there's very few brands, theclothing that people actually
trust. Yeah, I think yeah, like I think
(16:02):
like Lululemon. Amazon.
Sara America, Amazon Basics, quality product.
So like there's like a handful that are like really legit.
Maybe the ones that also have retail stores carry a little bit
more weight. But I think most of the time
it's like I'll figure this out, or I'll find it on another site,
or I'll find it on Amazon, or I'll find it elsewhere.
(16:25):
Oh, didn't see you there. I'm just reading Startup
Different, my book to help you get to your multimillion dollar
business. You can find it on Amazon,
Audible, and Kindle, right? You know, like I, I think I
remember I was on a panel at Startup Fest in Montreal a
couple months ago, which was fantastic.
(16:46):
By the way, I highly recommend you check it out if you're going
to do 1 entrepreneurship conference in the year.
And it's actual. Conferences, but they but though
I was on a panel and there was aventure capitalist next to me
and she was great because she was like so ruthless.
So like, I don't wanna say she was dream crushing, but she was
definitely adding a good dose ofreality.
I just got to sit there and be the good cop, the optimist, but
(17:08):
but there was somebody who had aclothing brand and they're
talking about and she's like, you have to discount, like you
cannot go to market that discounts like you will fail you
just like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how good the
clothes are, like whatever, if you're starting out, you must do
this right. Those kind of fascinating.
So I think there's a there's a lot that going into this too,
like how much to charge for yourproduct?
What nice are you targeting? How well can you delineate and
(17:31):
and differentiate in the specific clothing you like?
That's a very difficult market. OK, so let's go back to.
So we've been talking about sortof like founder starting a
business and then like using their social media, making
themselves famous to try and drive the brand awareness.
Yeah. What about the other way around?
Sort of like what if you are famous and then you go and you
start a brand? I think there's tons of.
(17:52):
This already happens. This is Yeah, this is happening
more and more all the time. I feel like I can see Grams
looking at me like you better talk about this like it's
happening. Like this is like Rihanna made
like a billion dollars, like offthe brand most nowadays rather
than OK, so here's another thingfor anybody thinking, because
I'm thinking about all this DC commerce stuff these days.
Yeah. So another thing about this is
(18:12):
that people are generally more tired of big audience
influencers because they tend tobe willing to sell just about
anything, right? And they have such a broad
audience that it kind of can work.
And people are like more burnt out of hearing about these
messages. What you'll see more often now
is a big level influencer spinning out a new product.
(18:33):
So they're just going and just going to skip the, the, the
working with somebody and just try to make the product go
themselves. I think Mr. Beast was talking
about launching a smartphone. I think the other day that yeah,
getting nods there from grams. So like there's there's that
kind of behavior happening. So if you're going to market in
DC in ecom, I think what you want to be looking for is these
(18:54):
nano influencers. So we're kind of weird here in
Canada. We don't have TikTok shop
because our governments have ideas about China and about
TikTok for better for us. But in the United States have
TikTok shop and it's people. Basically what happens is you,
you work with these nano influencers, right, 30,000
influence 30,000 followers or more usually.
(19:15):
And like there's there's ways that you can basically pay them
to just talk to your message andhave your talking point and they
get paid for it. And this is the the way to go to
market. This is a very appealing way to
go to market these days and people are spending really big
money and it's really easy to buy.
It's basically like you're looking at the video of the CEO
on their TikTok page. It's gone viral or it's or
(19:36):
whatever. You're just there and swipe to
the right to buy from them. It's right there listing right
like it's it's an interesting intersection of social media and
Amazon. Like if Amazon had a social
network where people dance, not Just Dance anymore TikTok, but
things are happening and and then you.
Couldn't they feel like they could copy?
That because like Gen. Z, honestly I've used a lot of
(20:00):
Amazon stuff and there's a lot of legacy code.
There doom scroll on Amazon likethey would have to get all that
like content that's in there that you know, has people.
I think it's because Tick Tock pulled people in with awesome,
funny content. Yeah, like entertainment.
They're like and. Then they're like why Jerry
sells. Something like that in or video
that's like essentially an ad. Or sponsored or they mentioning
you know. Click here to.
(20:20):
Buy some of them are very compelling.
Yeah, you watch how people, the people who are really good at
making that user generated content, these, these good
influencers doing this stuff arereally convincing that and they
deliver it really well. And I've bought so much oil of
oregano it's unbelievable. Exactly.
Yeah, you, I think you showed methat video.
You just yeah, like the anyway, the point though, is that like
(20:42):
it's it's I think that's anotherreason why it's also important.
I mean, this is kind of moving away from like the big
corporation. You need to be a famous CEO kind
of thing and more to like you'rea smaller company and you're
trying to get off the ground. The table sticks to this is that
you need to be having a presencethere so that people can
validate that, hey, that was good entertainment first.
(21:02):
Hey, this is kind of legit. What is this thing?
Hey, the person that runs it seems to be aligned with the
values of this. Oh, I can buy.
It right now, yeah. It's all happening right there
yeah like the your friction to purchase is so much lower right.
And I think that's really why it's so compelling.
And they're taking a run at Amazon.
Yeah. You know, it's funny, I've been
talking to a lot of people againin this space.
(21:23):
Another thing you do is the three PPL so third party
logistics company so that, you know, basically you don't have
to manage box in your crap. And you know, and there's one
that's fulfilled by TikTok and they yeah, they're doing.
They have warehouses. They are working with other
three PL's but they're subsidizing it.
No, no waiting list like you wouldn't believe.
(21:43):
Huh. You really can't do.
It OHT because, like, you are somany people trying to do because
it's such an impact on their margin, right?
But I mean, if they get that offthe ground in a meaningful way,
I'm sure they're building their own warehouses, too.
Yeah. Then all of a sudden you're
like, oh, wait, this is Amazon with a social network plugged
into it. That's highly entertaining.
Yeah. Like, if I'm Amazon, I'm
legitimately worried about my business.
(22:03):
Wow. I think this is a real thing.
Yeah. Except in Canada.
Except in Canada, because we suck.
It's only like a tariff thing. It's just like we're worried
about China in general. So, you know, we're worried
about. Chinese And one last thing I
wanted to just mention here too though, is that for anybody
who's out there as a founder andis looking for venture capital
(22:23):
funding, this is another thing that that as we mentioned, we
just touched on it for a second there earlier, but this is
actually a thing that can contribute to a successful raise
is how well known you are because I think for a couple of
reasons, depends on your product.
Naturally, it's going to show that people are probably willing
to buy, but also it's just easier to invest in people that
seem to have a way at getting people interested in whatever
(22:45):
they're talking about, right? Like there's a natural amount of
like marketing insights that this person has that I think
probably makes a venture CapitalGroup more comfortable.
Oh, they just see you have a really good social media
presence. You have all these followers,
you market yourself really well.That makes you more valuable.
Let's put it in a context that'sprobably unlikely, but helpful,
I think, as an example, book deals.
Yeah, if you have a big following, you're gonna get a
(23:08):
book deal. Right, right.
If you don't have a big following, you're not gonna get
a book deal. Yeah, yeah, Easy enough.
Yeah. And yeah, like, because.
They know about that all the time, too.
Yeah, so and so. That's something came out with
this stupid book about Matt Sundeen.
Like I love Matt Sunday, great hockey player, but like, is he
an author? Like because yeah, like
immediately like every. Like in the head, like 1000.
(23:29):
Times Bookstore, if those even still exist.
But like, every like, airport has that book sitting there.
Yeah, when you walk into the cause, I know you're looking for
something to read on an airplane.
Right. If you're famous, you're better
off starting a business. Yeah, period.
Yeah. Any any people who are
influencers now who aren't starting a business, I'm always
just like, but why? This kind of interesting.
I was talking to our brother Mike, and he was.
(23:51):
Because it's a lot of effort to be right.
Yeah, he was. He was talking about how there's
like stock and there's flow, OK.And so like stock would be like
Matt Sundeen has built a name for himself.
So he built up a lot of stock brand equity in his brand,
right, Brand equity. And then and then flow is more
like what you actually produce, like scoring goals, you know,
doing all that sort of stuff as you're OK, right.
(24:12):
So, and for, you know, a lot of people, you know, so for us, for
instance, so we were like, we, we were acquired, we had a lot
of stock, but we sold it right? And we signed an non compete and
all those types of things. So we couldn't go into that
space where we were sort of known and do sort of the same
thing. We we like essentially sold all
of our stock. So then we have to start again
(24:35):
by building flow to build up that stock and the next thing.
So what you're saying is with companies that are founders that
aren't famous to begin with, as you start off you are building
stock, yeah, in your personal brand that hopefully at some
later date you can then maybe you're not still doing whatever
you were started doing. But you can take that to some
other market, spin off that and and maintain that stock or start
(24:58):
to use that stock leverage. I, I think like it goes back to
one thing that I kind of regret about our, our first business,
which is I and this is a little bit different, but I think
similar but different that I just didn't care about
networking outside of our. Meeting customers.
Like I I network to to get deals, but I think there is some
value to be kind of outside that.
And I think that this data is like a logical extension of
(25:18):
that. Like you should be appealing to
an audience of people that like you and buy into what you're
doing and your values and your business should align with your
values too. Obviously, like that doesn't
make sense that you would be running a business that doesn't
align with your values like, or if it does, you are an anomaly
of an anomaly. So I think like with that in
mind, yeah, you're going to be able to keep that audience.
I think that's a good point. I think what are we saying here?
(25:41):
Do you have to be famous or on the road to fame start a
business and and and be successful?
Like, no, you don't, but it really, really, really.
You should start. You should try to be famous.
You should try start trying to try your brand.
And by the way, this is hard. Yeah, take it from us.
Yeah, it's really, really difficult.
And it will take you years. It is a long game.
(26:02):
You will not. Go viral.
I I would say to you don't bother spending money.
I would try and do everything organically.
I don't think spending money to do this works.
Or you're just gonna get bots. You're gonna get the silly fake
followers, things like that. Focus on actual organic content.
Keep keep at it. Keep consistent effort on it.
Maybe you get a few that go viral that pick up some traction
(26:24):
then it. Starts to work, understand?
You be working on this for 10 years.
Yeah, as long as you work on your business, you're gonna be
working on this. Yep.
Yep. Absolutely alright, sound
advice. We wrapped it up, folks.
We'll catch you next week. Let's get it rolling.
Big ideas Money folding hustle. Smart dream.
So why turn that grind into a? Joy Ride.
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