July 22, 2025 • 25 mins
When traditional ads failed, we went full guerrilla—and it actually worked. From postcards to giant fake checks, we share the scrappy, creative tactics that got real results (and laughs) for our startup. If you're tired of burning cash on paid ads, this episode might just change your marketing playbook.
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Chapters
00:00 – Intro: The Problem With Paid Ads
03:00 – Our Weirdest Guerrilla Wins
06:15 – Why Postcards and Fake Checks Worked
09:30 – Guerrilla Campaigns That Flopped
12:20 – What Makes a Good Guerrilla Idea
15:10 – Guerrilla vs Paid: Which Gets More Leads?
18:00 – Budget, Creativity, and ROI Reality
21:15 – Should Founders Go Guerrilla in 2025?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The gorilla, I think is the right term because, you know,
some of this stuff does feel very gimmicky, but it's actually
pretty effective. 42% of millennials get influenced by
guerrilla marketing campaigns online, and 50% of consumers say
gorilla marketing is an effective promotional tool.
Like it does get awareness. It does get your product out
there. Turn that ground into a joy
(00:24):
ride. Alright, so I want to talk about
today, something that we did kind of had it like desperation.
We've talked in previous episodes how like, yeah, yeah,
for sure desperation. What do you mean maybe like
ingenuity or like it's pretty burst of creativity?
I'm gonna coin a new phrase. It's desperation marketing.
(00:44):
That's. Nothing else work.
Please buy it for goodness sakes.
Take my phone. Yeah, my children.
Need wine? OK, so if you remember when we
ran our company App Armor, we read the book in Bell Marketing,
which talked about like blog posts and social media driving,
(01:06):
you know, sales that way. We actually hired somebody to do
just that and we got a goose eggof sales.
And one of our insights was thatwe had one of the incubators
actually here in Toronto who told us to get lost.
The one little nugget of advice that we got from there was that
(01:27):
you kind of have to sell to clients the way they want to be
sold to you. That's in.
The book. Right.
Yeah, that is in the book. So one of the things I was
thinking about the other day waswhat what what did we do when
that happened? And we went kind of old school,
even back in 2014, 2015. Yeah, you know, this was still
considered very old school, but we actually started mailing
(01:49):
contact direct mail, direct mail.
Yeah, You know, it's funny. There's a couple of reasons why
we did this. Yeah, if I, if I may.
Really quick being. Sure, sort of marketing guy at
Apparmor. And also if you wanna know what
incubator dumped us, that's in the book as well.
But anyway, so when when we weredoing that, there was there's
two things when I was coming from a major telecom and the
telecom did a lot of stuff by paper.
(02:10):
So I actually kind of understoodhow to do this.
That was one thing that's important.
The second thing is that I knew that it actually kind of worked
because the weird thing about itand I think this was actually
really work, especially right now.
So if you're listening, this might be a really good nugget
for whatever the hell your business is.
Is that there's a lot of noise online.
It's really hard to get someone's attention.
We just did an episode, you know, last week about social
media and like social media ads and that kind of thing.
(02:32):
And I think a lot of what we sawthere was that, you know, it's,
it's, it's, it can be hard for alot of things to get any
traction. Yeah.
But I the direct mail, the thing, especially in B2B sales,
I would argue and like B2B markets where there's like one
decision maker or like a handfulof decision makers is you can
reach people at a moment of quiet.
(02:53):
Oh, didn't see you there. I'm just reading Startup
different, my book to help you get to your multimillion dollar
business. You can find it on Amazon,
Audible and Kindle. So yeah, where they're doing
something else to get mail at their office.
Yeah, so they're going through like, I, I have this mental
image of like, you know, those things where it's like a bunch
(03:14):
of mailboxes in an office and everybody's got their name with
the little like, label on the shelf.
That's Isn't that an inbox? Yeah, Yeah.
No, I think of an inbox as the one that's like on your desk.
OK, whatever the like, the like,bulk inbox at the, you know,
main office anyways, so you go in, you get your like stack of
mail and you're going through it.
(03:35):
You're like, you're probably tossing everything.
And our little postcard was addressed to them.
And like, somehow we put something on that postcard that
made them actually kind of read it.
It was wild. We would get phone calls from
people being like, I would like to try out your digital mobile
app prototype. And they got this insight from
(03:56):
reading a snail mail postcard. Yeah, like the, the when you
think of like inversion friction, like how difficult it
is to get someone to respond to an ad, that's gotta be
astronomical, like versus like conversions.
Now, when you're right on the purchase page for some products,
like we were never gonna be likethat without primer.
But to imagine somebody taking those steps, like, that's
genuine interest. Yeah.
(04:16):
Absolutely. It's like validation right away.
We had competitors then too and I don't think any of the
competitors were doing that, no way.
And our but our clients were very old school.
They were kind of like, you know, that was comfortable for
them. In their 40s, this is a legit.
60s they actually send out. Mailers and they were in the
office, right? Cause physical safety was always
there. Yeah, even even during the, we
(04:36):
didn't do it by the pandemic years, but I, I'm confident
actually we still would have gotten a lot of response because
they had to go to the office anyway during the pandemic.
OK, so the this is old school, but you know another term for it
is guerrilla marketing. OK.
So like inexpensive kind of likenon traditional?
Whatever where everything went downhill on the so the Internet
(04:59):
has this, you know, the Internethas this thing where you know,
Harambe, the gorilla that was like shot at the zoo in 2019.
No, because it like some kid like fell into the gorilla pit
or something. Oh my God.
This is a big deal and they theythey killed her on by even
though like whatever and this islike the start of like a the
negative. Like I was actually way before
(05:19):
the panda. It was like 20/16/2015 or
something like that. So it's not gorilla like the
animal UAE like. I know it's fine.
Alright, thanks. I know.
I'd just like to hijack what you're trying to.
Change my idea, right? Into a black hole?
Sure there was. Somebody has a guerrilla
marketing tactic that got an actual gorilla.
(05:40):
I guarantee it. Oh my gosh, that's brilliant.
It's gotta be a zoo out. There male plush gorillas and
say we're using a gorilla marketing.
Tag No. Now it's like a dad joke, you
know? But back then it was.
Good. Alright, whatever.
OK, So that the other piece I wanted to put out there is, are
our other foray into Gorilla marketing was we had a referral
program. And yeah, the way it worked was
if you're an existing client andyou referred us to another
(06:03):
client, we would give you a $500donation towards safety
initiatives at your campus, at your school.
And we would also give $500 off the the the referee, the person
that got the referral if they bought a safety app from us.
And the way we actioned it was we went on Vistaprint and we
(06:25):
printed up, I think they were like PVC signs.
Yeah, I. Was like a really big lawn sign,
yeah. Yeah, look, we made it look like
a check. Yeah, OK.
Like a massive novelty. It was the biggest one we could
get. I think we could have probably
done better, but it was the finest.
It was cheapest solution. Yeah.
Big, yeah. But I'm sure you can get like
somebody's making big giant fakechecks.
They get like the price is rightor something.
(06:45):
Like that for like 50 bucks eachto make them.
They were super were they were not cheap ohi but.
I think that's. Pretty.
And then we we put like the actual check with like taped it
onto the ground about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we kept the box that Vistaprint sent the sign USN so
that we could actually then shipit to the client.
So we would then ship it to the client and they would so.
So obviously they would get their 500 bucks.
They would be all excited that they're gonna use that for some
(07:08):
sort of safety initiative on their campus.
Yeah, get it to tell everybody this stuff.
But then they would also take a selfie with the huge check and
send it to us, which we would then use on.
Our, you know, it's, it's like OG user generated content
marketing. Yeah.
Like we were like we were sending them a giant check that
they would, they would almost guarantee do a photo of and put
(07:28):
on something. Yeah.
Social media, their website, both whatever.
Yeah. And actually it was kind of cool
too. Is I know a few cases where
like, I think like Dalhousie, they did it a couple times
actually. And they used that money to do
something cool on campus. Yeah.
Like they actually like funded. They're like, you know, walk
home service for like, I don't know, like a year or something
like that. Using using that money, 500
(07:50):
bucks, 100 bucks, mostly volunteers.
So it was like really, really cheap.
But anyway. Yeah, OK, cool.
So I want to give you a couple of examples of bigger companies
doing this kind of stuff. Hang on.
So is the point of this that we're trying to tell our lovely
audience like good ideas for girl or just going through like
cool gorilla marketing because it works?
Is that what? We're doing.
I wanna tell you what, I wanna get to the elements of making
this work. OK, OK, alright.
(08:11):
Because I do. Think we I have some as well.
I can think of some off the top of my head that are pretty.
Good. Keep in mind we're startup
different, so I think doing marketing differently is right
up our alley. And there's nobody listening
today who would should, like everyone should be interested in
doing marketing differently. Yeah, like why wouldn't?
You be exactly. So don't get ahead of me.
Alright, so I got two more little examples I wanna show
you. OK, hot dog.
(08:32):
So, Heinz, did you ever hear about the phone case that Heinz
made? Like an iPhone case that they
came out with? Yeah, yeah.
I'll show you a picture of it. Probably.
Get this up there. This is my.
Buddy Dan for sure it's it's gota little holder so that you can
put your little packet of Heinz ketchup at all times like what
(08:52):
if. You sit on and you know, like, I
like that. It's not remotely practical.
I like that. That's good, but that's a
awesome gimmick. Apparently you could order this
thing. Oht really?
Yeah. Oh, cool.
That's. Like I like I.
Think that's what makes it really good when you can do the
thing like whatever product theycome out with but.
OK, so then the other one is in the galleon which is train
(09:15):
station in Paris. IKEA put all their sofas in
there for people waiting for thetrain, right?
So you could try out IKEA sofa that's nice and like that seems.
A good. Idea, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And actually people like the sofas so.
Can we go back to Heinz for a second?
Sure. So yeah, I'll show them my buddy
Dan again. But he one of the things they
(09:36):
did really well on is Websters was doing word of the year OK,
and they hijacked the competition, as so many Internet
competitions are hijacked for, you know, like Bodie Mcbox face
and all this stupid shit. But there was this one was they
showed up with a giant mayonnaise.
This do mayonnaise as well show this big and they they were
trying to take over the word of the year for moist.
(09:57):
They wanted moist to be the wordof the year.
They put this giant mailbox and like influencers were going up
to this giant mayonnaise bottle in front of the Websters
dictionary building taking like selfies are doing for videos.
And it was like absolutely killed.
And now recently they're doing the Mustard campaign with, you
know, DJ Mustard, Like Mustard on that, you know that.
(10:18):
Guy. Yeah, and like, because it's a
Kendrick Lamar song where he goes.
And so they they were all over this and so good for them, by
the way, they seems like a pretty obvious sign.
But like, he's coming out like this like line of like jewel
encrusted mustard. Like it's not.
Like is anyway, but they do. They've done some funds.
I think it would be really fun to run an advertising department
(10:40):
where your job is just to win awards.
You don't even have to sell the product.
It just sells. It's just mustard.
But like, anyway, whatever. Absolutely.
So like this episode, I didn't wanna call it gimmick marketing.
I wanted to call it something else.
Gorilla, I think is the right term because, you know, some of
this stuff does feel very gimmicky, but it's actually
pretty effective. So apparently 42% of millennials
(11:02):
get influenced by guerrilla marketing campaigns online and
50% of consumers say guerilla marketing is an effective
promotional tool. Like it does get awareness.
It does get your product out there.
Well, it's inherently differentiated, like it's
different than every other ad that's out there.
It's not just something you're seeing in your doom scrolling.
Yeah, you know, you actually notice it.
(11:24):
And and probably I think there'salso an element of enjoyment,
you know what I mean? Like, I think a lot of people
like if you were to ask the average person, do you like ads?
No, no, OK, I remember. Have you ever read OHT man
Confessions of an advertising man by David Ogilvy is really
interesting because he's like, he's like Madison Ave. amazing
advertiser. OK, And he but he one point in
(11:46):
the book, he's like, I'm just sosurprised that people, you know,
I don't know that he sounds like, but that they mute the TV
when the ads are on. Like to him, this was
unbelievable because for him, advertising is almost like
artistic or interesting. OK.
But I think we've we've we're very far from that time now.
And frankly, there's just so much more advertising, I think
(12:08):
even than 10 years ago or 20 years ago, that when you see
something that you don't perceive as an ad, but instead
is something, a fun event or funstunt or fun thing you like.
I like this. And it also happens to be kind
of a brand awareness thing or perhaps even a specific offer
for a company. Yeah.
You like it more? This is not a stupid ad like
(12:30):
yeah. Everyday I always think of Seth
Godin, Seth Gordon, Gordon Gordon Yeah, one of his really
early books, permission marketing is like the greatest
advertising is advertising that's perceived as a service.
Yeah, you know, but in this caseit's more like advertising this
perceived as. Like entertainment, but
entertainment is a service. OK, I I think it's the same.
(12:50):
I think it's, yeah, I'm, I'm right, I think.
Violently agreeing here. Yeah.
I think a lot of time though people especially a lot of a lot
of founders have smaller companies when they think about
their advertising are very literal.
This is what it is, is what it does is and maybe this is the
benefit, but I think that reallywhat you want to do is something
(13:11):
that's entertaining. Go through my day and do
something fun and I'll probably I'm way more likely to buy your
thing. So it's made me laugh, man.
Just make me laugh for for two seconds.
Yeah, so I gotta get quote here.Making noise in the background
of your atom in, you know. Let's do it knowing who your
client is and what would make their life easier.
Engaging without the sales pitch, OK.
(13:31):
You know, I mean, I think that'slike the key nugget there.
Yeah, is it doesn't feel like a sales pitch.
You're being sold to, but you don't know it.
Or you do know it and you don't mind.
It's a funny thing. You're getting some
entertainment value out of it. OK, Yeah.
So actually there's some academic research on this topic
that is being researched now, so.
Good people of Heinz, Heinz University or OK?
(13:52):
So like any good business thing,there are three.
Here we go. Yeah.
Is it? From a book, I probably, but
don't ask me which one. I think it's actually a research
study. OK, so So what?
What are like the attributes of like effective guerrilla
marketing? So first one, no surprise is
it's got to have a surprise, OK?There's got to be a surprise
(14:14):
effect to it. You gotta see that big bottle of
mayonnaise. You gotta see that phone case
with the ketchup and OK, and getbehind that, you know, well,
that's a surprise. That's something that I wasn't
expecting. There has to be a diffusion
effect, sort of like a word mouth spread.
Yeah. So like organic virality case
with the Heinz ketchup. And I go out for brunch with you
and I'm having my breakfast potatoes, and I pull out my
(14:36):
phone case. And I, you know, when you're
gonna be like, whoa, that's whenyou're gonna tell people.
That's like word of mouth organic, but I, I think the like
in a lot of times like social organic would replace that like
right at a scale that's way greater than just me seeing you
put that on your breakfast potatoes like you did this
morning. Yeah, so like the influencer
taking the selfie in front of the Mayo jar and like, yeah.
Posting that user generated content is supposed to be like
(14:57):
the Holy Grail of social media. Advertising.
Yeah, yeah. Now here's the one I like the
best. The attribute I like the best of
this stuff is there's gotta be alow cost effect.
What do you mean? Well, it can't be that
expensive. The thing or the?
Ad the whole thing, the whole adthe whole the marketing spend,
the gorilla marketing effort. OK, so I don't know how much it
(15:17):
costs for a massive jar mayonnaise, but.
In the grand scheme of things and is it dependent on like the
return of on investment like let's say like let's say you
cost 10 grand for that bottle ofmayonnaise?
Just make it like I I don't knowwhat Hellman's.
Is it Hellman's Mayo or is it another brand?
I have no idea. I probably also Heinz.
Mansion better, yeah. I bet I could find it.
(15:38):
We'll find an image of it. We'll put it.
On complete that because we haven't paid us anything.
Yeah, buddy. But you know, I, I would love to
know what the data says about their like, sales.
Do they actually see more peoplebuying mayonnaise or ketchup or
whatever while those campaigns went on?
Because like, if you think of the market for ketchup, that's a
(15:58):
huge market. So if you can move the needle 1
or 2%, yeah, that's a huge amount of money.
And making a phone case that you're, you know, as a ketchup
sleeve in it, it's probably pretty inexpensive for the
amount. Of yeah, yeah.
So it's in ROR I conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK. Or row as I guess, like we
talked about last episode. But yeah.
(16:19):
OK. Well, one thing I was wondering
on the first one, the surprise, how much is it like surprise
versus like shock, being shockedabout something?
Cause, you know, some ads are just weird.
They're just strange. Maybe they're not gorilla
though, I guess in your context,but I guess I sort of wonder
like is it, does it have to be like like delightful?
Do you know, I mean like using like specific, like emotional
(16:41):
things here. Is it something that's like
positive? I think of surprise, maybe it's
nice. Being positive and stunt being
kind of like. Negative possibly, yeah.
OK, Something that cause I thinksome advertisements that are
really effective sometimes can be pretty negative, but like,
you know what I mean? Like or they're like, what is it
like? So I'm getting all over the
place, but it's like you want todo one of two things.
(17:02):
I think in advertising and entertainment in general, you
either want to express some sortof fear that's very palpable to
the person listening or in this case, the buyer, or you want to
express something aspirational and positive that they could
become that they can believe in.And I think that if you do one
of those two, you're going to besuccessful in whatever
advertisement you're doing. Yeah, I think you, I think
really what you get out of gorilla marketing is you get
(17:25):
genuine interest and genuine eyeballs.
Do you know what I mean? Like we talked again, we talked
last episode about sort of like buying eyeballs and how it's not
always great, depends on what you're doing and that kind of
thing. What I think about Gorilla is I
think of it as more sort of a. Just.
People are genuinely. Interested.
Can I give you some words? Can can I say like maybe it's
(17:47):
aligned with your brand values? Yeah, as gorilla versus a
gimmick is more like, you know, that shock effect where it's not
really aligned with your brand values, You're just trying to
get eyeballs. So whatever bottle of mayonnaise
fit into that. Category like 1 right?
That doesn't seem like what I guess really, what are the brand
(18:08):
values of a ketchup company? Yeah, I'd.
Make. Kind of gimmicky.
Sorry, Dad. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Hey, maybe it works though, too, right.
I bet it to your point, I bet ithad a really, really high
return. There's no way I couldn't have.
Yeah, You know, I think about the IKEA one, OK You're actually
giving people a place to sit, whether waiting for their train.
There's probably a whole lot more comfortable than train
station chairs, right? Yeah.
(18:30):
So there's actually a bit of. A legend.
I agree with that. Yeah, I think that's.
True. The the ketchup thing.
Do you ever? Hear of right, I have another
good idea story. OK, I just really quickly so
years ago there was this I can'tremember what year I think pre
pandemic there was this there was this thing where at IKEA's
there would be flash mobs who would play hide and seek in IKEA
(18:52):
stores yeah. So I don't know if these flash
rolls are very big probably like20-30 people something that like
kind of weird and so for a whileIKEA was like don't do this like
this like liability and we don'twant people like running in
random parts of our store. Oh gosh.
But then they just started leaning in.
They started like did. Yeah, they started going for it
there and all of a. Sudden it's not cool.
Actually, yeah. If Brandon wants to kill
(19:13):
something, just say, yeah, go for it.
Yeah, you know, us too, you know?
And yeah. But anyway, I thought it was
kind of interesting. This is kind of like a fun, like
they made it gorilla marketing. Yeah.
I don't know why people were doing it in the first place.
I guess it's just like a generalthing for IKEA, but they turned
something that was negative intoa positive.
So I think that's kind of interesting.
Yeah. So let me ask you a question on
(19:34):
cost. OK.
So your buddy Dan works in a marketing agency and they do.
This like the the Dan episode? Yeah, it is kind of the Dan
episode, but like is part of their pitch to clients about
doing these types of guerrilla marketing stunts that are
campaigns huh. Is it is it cost effectiveness?
Is it like this will get you more for less?
(19:55):
Is that their I? Think a lot of the time so he's
in house right so that the that he's an in house agency that
works that does all the stuff for for Heinz so when I I
actually think that OK so I havetwo thoughts 1 is that anybody
who goes through advertising school whether you're at a
college or university or whatever you.
You do copyright thing, they always gonna tell you is write
(20:17):
that we have this, this is the campaign, this is the product.
Give me 150 ideas. And they so they do a lot of
like really crazy and interesting brainstorming on.
I think there's actually a lot of the value of agencies because
these are professionally creative thinkers, OK.
And so they come up with those crazy stuff and then sometimes
they get the yes on it. But the reason I think for them
(20:37):
what they're trying to do, they are trying to win awards.
I think they are trying to say we are a really, really good
agency. We have a really spectacular
product because their product, Idon't think it could be much
more mature than than ketchup, right?
You know what I mean? Like you're right, moving the
needle even a half a percentage point would be really material.
But for them, like I'm sure there is at some point of
(20:58):
conversation on return. But I do think that most of the
time for them it's prestige. So was.
That Dan's idea by any chance? No, no.
I have no idea. Did not pull that off.
Come on, I don't. Know it's pretty fun.
It's a pretty fun idea, but I. Do you remember like oht boy,
like 30 years ago, maybe 25 years ago, a Heinz did the green
ketchup? Yeah, and the purple, purple,
(21:21):
purple, purple, purple at home. Yeah.
Ohhhhh. I didn't like it was purple as a
kid. I was like, I don't.
Eat this but like. I don't think that works now.
I think there's a real aversion now to even you see on the Heinz
ketchup bottles will say only like 3 ingredients or whatever.
Yeah, there's a real version nowto added ingredients.
I think if you were to be like, Oh yeah, here is like, doesn't
the red dye that we had as kids is like, is like a carcinogen,
(21:42):
like red dye 44 or whatever. Yeah, we're like, you know,
every kid, birthday cake and everything and like, Jesus.
Christ, how does the ketchup getthat red?
Tomatoes. Are they?
You know how ketchup gets red? Call in now.
Wow. Alright, well, whatever.
But I think it's can you go backto the stats what did how
(22:03):
effect? So you said 50% of people would
like it other ones? Never say gorilla marketing is
an effective promotional tool. 42% of millennials get
influenced by guerrilla marketing campaigns online.
What does that mean? 42% get influenced?
What does it mean to? Be influential idea this I I
hate this stuff in marketing because is that conversions?
Did they buy a bottle of ketchup?
(22:24):
Like did they influence? Anything with it?
Yeah. That's a huge #242% so and so
it's of people that see the ad. So almost half the people that
see the ad are influenced by it.So maybe that means they share
it or like it. Maybe that's trying to get at.
Maybe. That's when you get to that
virality and the virality coefficient, like how many one
person shares it to how many others.
(22:45):
Right. You know, I don't really know,
but all I wanna say is that I think when you are thinking
about advertising, you have to do something different.
You have to do something to get some attention.
For us, it was like postcards and big checks, OK For other
companies out there, like if you're just going to do the
exact same thing that everybody else is doing, it's going really
(23:05):
hard for you to gain any attention.
So it's really hard too. There's a gravitational pull to
doing ads similar to your competitors.
I don't know what that's all about.
I think it's you think, well, maybe they know something you
don't. You're gonna try and do it, but.
I actually don't. No, they don't.
And here's the the the other thing that what I would consider
for a lot of people, especially for smaller brands, you know, if
you're in the, you've got a couple million in revenue would
(23:27):
be ideal. But I think you could do this at
most sizes is take risks with marketing.
Yeah, do these things. Don't do the normal ads, do
something weird, get something out there.
And I think you'll you have a maybe a better chance of
success. I'm not promising anything, but
if you do something that's like,yeah, here's my banner ad,
here's my, you know, try it now.Put my logo.
(23:47):
Put my logo on it. They'll make the logo bigger,
you know, like you're like, likethat's not really gonna do it.
But I think being more aggressive and creative.
And that's, I think of think products that have done really
well regardless of gorilla or otherwise, like Liquid Death,
right? Yeah.
Like, took a like, it's, it's water, but took a category that
is like always about purity and like all these other things took
(24:10):
a totally different angle and actually leaned in as hard as
they could. Yeah.
And they did really well, Right.So.
Yeah, the opposite strategy I think is what that's called.
Like OK, do the opposite of whatI apparently Norway's tourism
board did a a marketing campaignof why they hate Oslo.
(24:31):
That would do well in Canada forToronto.
Why the rest of the country hates.
Toronto. But then everybody in the rest
of the country is going, yeah. I could, it could be funny as it
sucks, you know, like. So we like the Blue Jays.
Yeah, we do Canada's team, right.
But yeah, right on. That's that's, that's that's an
interesting take. So I think kind of like the
conclusion there is like, yeah, like take gambles Bush it do
(24:52):
something different place to do it.
And you have very little to losewhen you have almost no brand
equity anyway. And you'll find too, that bigger
players don't want to take thoserisks because they created so
much brand equity, Right, right.There's only, there's very few
brands that I can think of, likeoff the top of my head that are
willing to risk a lot all the time.
I think like Red Bull, like, youknow, they like, they, they're
(25:13):
willing to, like they're gonna do it because they, they're kind
of extreme. So they're gonna do extreme
stuff right on mission to your point earlier.
So anyway, but I think for your smaller company, that's where
you're gonna get visibility and traction.
Spend the money on it and give it a shot.
So there it is, your foolproof guerrilla marketing.
Doesn't involve an actual. Gorilla.
(25:34):
RIP Harambe. Alright, thank you folks.
Start it up. Let's get it rolling.
Big ideas, Money, hustle, Smart dream.
So why turn that grind into a joy ride?
The gorilla, I think is the right term because, you know,
some of this stuff does feel very gimmicky, but it's actually
pretty effective. 42% of millennials get influenced by
guerrilla marketing campaigns online, and 50% of consumers say
gorilla marketing is an effective promotional tool.
Like it does get awareness. It does get your product out
there. Turn that ground into a joy
(00:24):
ride. Alright, so I want to talk about
today, something that we did kind of had it like desperation.
We've talked in previous episodes how like, yeah, yeah,
for sure desperation. What do you mean maybe like
ingenuity or like it's pretty burst of creativity?
I'm gonna coin a new phrase. It's desperation marketing.
(00:44):
That's. Nothing else work.
Please buy it for goodness sakes.
Take my phone. Yeah, my children.
Need wine? OK, so if you remember when we
ran our company App Armor, we read the book in Bell Marketing,
which talked about like blog posts and social media driving,
(01:06):
you know, sales that way. We actually hired somebody to do
just that and we got a goose eggof sales.
And one of our insights was thatwe had one of the incubators
actually here in Toronto who told us to get lost.
The one little nugget of advice that we got from there was that
(01:27):
you kind of have to sell to clients the way they want to be
sold to you. That's in.
The book. Right.
Yeah, that is in the book. So one of the things I was
thinking about the other day waswhat what what did we do when
that happened? And we went kind of old school,
even back in 2014, 2015. Yeah, you know, this was still
considered very old school, but we actually started mailing
(01:49):
contact direct mail, direct mail.
Yeah, You know, it's funny. There's a couple of reasons why
we did this. Yeah, if I, if I may.
Really quick being. Sure, sort of marketing guy at
Apparmor. And also if you wanna know what
incubator dumped us, that's in the book as well.
But anyway, so when when we weredoing that, there was there's
two things when I was coming from a major telecom and the
telecom did a lot of stuff by paper.
(02:10):
So I actually kind of understoodhow to do this.
That was one thing that's important.
The second thing is that I knew that it actually kind of worked
because the weird thing about itand I think this was actually
really work, especially right now.
So if you're listening, this might be a really good nugget
for whatever the hell your business is.
Is that there's a lot of noise online.
It's really hard to get someone's attention.
We just did an episode, you know, last week about social
media and like social media ads and that kind of thing.
(02:32):
And I think a lot of what we sawthere was that, you know, it's,
it's, it's, it can be hard for alot of things to get any
traction. Yeah.
But I the direct mail, the thing, especially in B2B sales,
I would argue and like B2B markets where there's like one
decision maker or like a handfulof decision makers is you can
reach people at a moment of quiet.
(02:53):
Oh, didn't see you there. I'm just reading Startup
different, my book to help you get to your multimillion dollar
business. You can find it on Amazon,
Audible and Kindle. So yeah, where they're doing
something else to get mail at their office.
Yeah, so they're going through like, I, I have this mental
image of like, you know, those things where it's like a bunch
(03:14):
of mailboxes in an office and everybody's got their name with
the little like, label on the shelf.
That's Isn't that an inbox? Yeah, Yeah.
No, I think of an inbox as the one that's like on your desk.
OK, whatever the like, the like,bulk inbox at the, you know,
main office anyways, so you go in, you get your like stack of
mail and you're going through it.
(03:35):
You're like, you're probably tossing everything.
And our little postcard was addressed to them.
And like, somehow we put something on that postcard that
made them actually kind of read it.
It was wild. We would get phone calls from
people being like, I would like to try out your digital mobile
app prototype. And they got this insight from
(03:56):
reading a snail mail postcard. Yeah, like the, the when you
think of like inversion friction, like how difficult it
is to get someone to respond to an ad, that's gotta be
astronomical, like versus like conversions.
Now, when you're right on the purchase page for some products,
like we were never gonna be likethat without primer.
But to imagine somebody taking those steps, like, that's
genuine interest. Yeah.
(04:16):
Absolutely. It's like validation right away.
We had competitors then too and I don't think any of the
competitors were doing that, no way.
And our but our clients were very old school.
They were kind of like, you know, that was comfortable for
them. In their 40s, this is a legit.
60s they actually send out. Mailers and they were in the
office, right? Cause physical safety was always
there. Yeah, even even during the, we
(04:36):
didn't do it by the pandemic years, but I, I'm confident
actually we still would have gotten a lot of response because
they had to go to the office anyway during the pandemic.
OK, so the this is old school, but you know another term for it
is guerrilla marketing. OK.
So like inexpensive kind of likenon traditional?
Whatever where everything went downhill on the so the Internet
(04:59):
has this, you know, the Internethas this thing where you know,
Harambe, the gorilla that was like shot at the zoo in 2019.
No, because it like some kid like fell into the gorilla pit
or something. Oh my God.
This is a big deal and they theythey killed her on by even
though like whatever and this islike the start of like a the
negative. Like I was actually way before
(05:19):
the panda. It was like 20/16/2015 or
something like that. So it's not gorilla like the
animal UAE like. I know it's fine.
Alright, thanks. I know.
I'd just like to hijack what you're trying to.
Change my idea, right? Into a black hole?
Sure there was. Somebody has a guerrilla
marketing tactic that got an actual gorilla.
(05:40):
I guarantee it. Oh my gosh, that's brilliant.
It's gotta be a zoo out. There male plush gorillas and
say we're using a gorilla marketing.
Tag No. Now it's like a dad joke, you
know? But back then it was.
Good. Alright, whatever.
OK, So that the other piece I wanted to put out there is, are
our other foray into Gorilla marketing was we had a referral
program. And yeah, the way it worked was
if you're an existing client andyou referred us to another
(06:03):
client, we would give you a $500donation towards safety
initiatives at your campus, at your school.
And we would also give $500 off the the the referee, the person
that got the referral if they bought a safety app from us.
And the way we actioned it was we went on Vistaprint and we
(06:25):
printed up, I think they were like PVC signs.
Yeah, I. Was like a really big lawn sign,
yeah. Yeah, look, we made it look like
a check. Yeah, OK.
Like a massive novelty. It was the biggest one we could
get. I think we could have probably
done better, but it was the finest.
It was cheapest solution. Yeah.
Big, yeah. But I'm sure you can get like
somebody's making big giant fakechecks.
They get like the price is rightor something.
(06:45):
Like that for like 50 bucks eachto make them.
They were super were they were not cheap ohi but.
I think that's. Pretty.
And then we we put like the actual check with like taped it
onto the ground about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we kept the box that Vistaprint sent the sign USN so
that we could actually then shipit to the client.
So we would then ship it to the client and they would so.
So obviously they would get their 500 bucks.
They would be all excited that they're gonna use that for some
(07:08):
sort of safety initiative on their campus.
Yeah, get it to tell everybody this stuff.
But then they would also take a selfie with the huge check and
send it to us, which we would then use on.
Our, you know, it's, it's like OG user generated content
marketing. Yeah.
Like we were like we were sending them a giant check that
they would, they would almost guarantee do a photo of and put
(07:28):
on something. Yeah.
Social media, their website, both whatever.
Yeah. And actually it was kind of cool
too. Is I know a few cases where
like, I think like Dalhousie, they did it a couple times
actually. And they used that money to do
something cool on campus. Yeah.
Like they actually like funded. They're like, you know, walk
home service for like, I don't know, like a year or something
like that. Using using that money, 500
(07:50):
bucks, 100 bucks, mostly volunteers.
So it was like really, really cheap.
But anyway. Yeah, OK, cool.
So I want to give you a couple of examples of bigger companies
doing this kind of stuff. Hang on.
So is the point of this that we're trying to tell our lovely
audience like good ideas for girl or just going through like
cool gorilla marketing because it works?
Is that what? We're doing.
I wanna tell you what, I wanna get to the elements of making
this work. OK, OK, alright.
(08:11):
Because I do. Think we I have some as well.
I can think of some off the top of my head that are pretty.
Good. Keep in mind we're startup
different, so I think doing marketing differently is right
up our alley. And there's nobody listening
today who would should, like everyone should be interested in
doing marketing differently. Yeah, like why wouldn't?
You be exactly. So don't get ahead of me.
Alright, so I got two more little examples I wanna show
you. OK, hot dog.
(08:32):
So, Heinz, did you ever hear about the phone case that Heinz
made? Like an iPhone case that they
came out with? Yeah, yeah.
I'll show you a picture of it. Probably.
Get this up there. This is my.
Buddy Dan for sure it's it's gota little holder so that you can
put your little packet of Heinz ketchup at all times like what
(08:52):
if. You sit on and you know, like, I
like that. It's not remotely practical.
I like that. That's good, but that's a
awesome gimmick. Apparently you could order this
thing. Oht really?
Yeah. Oh, cool.
That's. Like I like I.
Think that's what makes it really good when you can do the
thing like whatever product theycome out with but.
OK, so then the other one is in the galleon which is train
(09:15):
station in Paris. IKEA put all their sofas in
there for people waiting for thetrain, right?
So you could try out IKEA sofa that's nice and like that seems.
A good. Idea, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And actually people like the sofas so.
Can we go back to Heinz for a second?
Sure. So yeah, I'll show them my buddy
Dan again. But he one of the things they
(09:36):
did really well on is Websters was doing word of the year OK,
and they hijacked the competition, as so many Internet
competitions are hijacked for, you know, like Bodie Mcbox face
and all this stupid shit. But there was this one was they
showed up with a giant mayonnaise.
This do mayonnaise as well show this big and they they were
trying to take over the word of the year for moist.
(09:57):
They wanted moist to be the wordof the year.
They put this giant mailbox and like influencers were going up
to this giant mayonnaise bottle in front of the Websters
dictionary building taking like selfies are doing for videos.
And it was like absolutely killed.
And now recently they're doing the Mustard campaign with, you
know, DJ Mustard, Like Mustard on that, you know that.
(10:18):
Guy. Yeah, and like, because it's a
Kendrick Lamar song where he goes.
And so they they were all over this and so good for them, by
the way, they seems like a pretty obvious sign.
But like, he's coming out like this like line of like jewel
encrusted mustard. Like it's not.
Like is anyway, but they do. They've done some funds.
I think it would be really fun to run an advertising department
(10:40):
where your job is just to win awards.
You don't even have to sell the product.
It just sells. It's just mustard.
But like, anyway, whatever. Absolutely.
So like this episode, I didn't wanna call it gimmick marketing.
I wanted to call it something else.
Gorilla, I think is the right term because, you know, some of
this stuff does feel very gimmicky, but it's actually
pretty effective. So apparently 42% of millennials
(11:02):
get influenced by guerrilla marketing campaigns online and
50% of consumers say guerilla marketing is an effective
promotional tool. Like it does get awareness.
It does get your product out there.
Well, it's inherently differentiated, like it's
different than every other ad that's out there.
It's not just something you're seeing in your doom scrolling.
Yeah, you know, you actually notice it.
(11:24):
And and probably I think there'salso an element of enjoyment,
you know what I mean? Like, I think a lot of people
like if you were to ask the average person, do you like ads?
No, no, OK, I remember. Have you ever read OHT man
Confessions of an advertising man by David Ogilvy is really
interesting because he's like, he's like Madison Ave. amazing
advertiser. OK, And he but he one point in
(11:46):
the book, he's like, I'm just sosurprised that people, you know,
I don't know that he sounds like, but that they mute the TV
when the ads are on. Like to him, this was
unbelievable because for him, advertising is almost like
artistic or interesting. OK.
But I think we've we've we're very far from that time now.
And frankly, there's just so much more advertising, I think
(12:08):
even than 10 years ago or 20 years ago, that when you see
something that you don't perceive as an ad, but instead
is something, a fun event or funstunt or fun thing you like.
I like this. And it also happens to be kind
of a brand awareness thing or perhaps even a specific offer
for a company. Yeah.
You like it more? This is not a stupid ad like
(12:30):
yeah. Everyday I always think of Seth
Godin, Seth Gordon, Gordon Gordon Yeah, one of his really
early books, permission marketing is like the greatest
advertising is advertising that's perceived as a service.
Yeah, you know, but in this caseit's more like advertising this
perceived as. Like entertainment, but
entertainment is a service. OK, I I think it's the same.
(12:50):
I think it's, yeah, I'm, I'm right, I think.
Violently agreeing here. Yeah.
I think a lot of time though people especially a lot of a lot
of founders have smaller companies when they think about
their advertising are very literal.
This is what it is, is what it does is and maybe this is the
benefit, but I think that reallywhat you want to do is something
(13:11):
that's entertaining. Go through my day and do
something fun and I'll probably I'm way more likely to buy your
thing. So it's made me laugh, man.
Just make me laugh for for two seconds.
Yeah, so I gotta get quote here.Making noise in the background
of your atom in, you know. Let's do it knowing who your
client is and what would make their life easier.
Engaging without the sales pitch, OK.
(13:31):
You know, I mean, I think that'slike the key nugget there.
Yeah, is it doesn't feel like a sales pitch.
You're being sold to, but you don't know it.
Or you do know it and you don't mind.
It's a funny thing. You're getting some
entertainment value out of it. OK, Yeah.
So actually there's some academic research on this topic
that is being researched now, so.
Good people of Heinz, Heinz University or OK?
(13:52):
So like any good business thing,there are three.
Here we go. Yeah.
Is it? From a book, I probably, but
don't ask me which one. I think it's actually a research
study. OK, so So what?
What are like the attributes of like effective guerrilla
marketing? So first one, no surprise is
it's got to have a surprise, OK?There's got to be a surprise
(14:14):
effect to it. You gotta see that big bottle of
mayonnaise. You gotta see that phone case
with the ketchup and OK, and getbehind that, you know, well,
that's a surprise. That's something that I wasn't
expecting. There has to be a diffusion
effect, sort of like a word mouth spread.
Yeah. So like organic virality case
with the Heinz ketchup. And I go out for brunch with you
and I'm having my breakfast potatoes, and I pull out my
(14:36):
phone case. And I, you know, when you're
gonna be like, whoa, that's whenyou're gonna tell people.
That's like word of mouth organic, but I, I think the like
in a lot of times like social organic would replace that like
right at a scale that's way greater than just me seeing you
put that on your breakfast potatoes like you did this
morning. Yeah, so like the influencer
taking the selfie in front of the Mayo jar and like, yeah.
Posting that user generated content is supposed to be like
(14:57):
the Holy Grail of social media. Advertising.
Yeah, yeah. Now here's the one I like the
best. The attribute I like the best of
this stuff is there's gotta be alow cost effect.
What do you mean? Well, it can't be that
expensive. The thing or the?
Ad the whole thing, the whole adthe whole the marketing spend,
the gorilla marketing effort. OK, so I don't know how much it
(15:17):
costs for a massive jar mayonnaise, but.
In the grand scheme of things and is it dependent on like the
return of on investment like let's say like let's say you
cost 10 grand for that bottle ofmayonnaise?
Just make it like I I don't knowwhat Hellman's.
Is it Hellman's Mayo or is it another brand?
I have no idea. I probably also Heinz.
Mansion better, yeah. I bet I could find it.
(15:38):
We'll find an image of it. We'll put it.
On complete that because we haven't paid us anything.
Yeah, buddy. But you know, I, I would love to
know what the data says about their like, sales.
Do they actually see more peoplebuying mayonnaise or ketchup or
whatever while those campaigns went on?
Because like, if you think of the market for ketchup, that's a
(15:58):
huge market. So if you can move the needle 1
or 2%, yeah, that's a huge amount of money.
And making a phone case that you're, you know, as a ketchup
sleeve in it, it's probably pretty inexpensive for the
amount. Of yeah, yeah.
So it's in ROR I conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK. Or row as I guess, like we
talked about last episode. But yeah.
(16:19):
OK. Well, one thing I was wondering
on the first one, the surprise, how much is it like surprise
versus like shock, being shockedabout something?
Cause, you know, some ads are just weird.
They're just strange. Maybe they're not gorilla
though, I guess in your context,but I guess I sort of wonder
like is it, does it have to be like like delightful?
Do you know, I mean like using like specific, like emotional
(16:41):
things here. Is it something that's like
positive? I think of surprise, maybe it's
nice. Being positive and stunt being
kind of like. Negative possibly, yeah.
OK, Something that cause I thinksome advertisements that are
really effective sometimes can be pretty negative, but like,
you know what I mean? Like or they're like, what is it
like? So I'm getting all over the
place, but it's like you want todo one of two things.
(17:02):
I think in advertising and entertainment in general, you
either want to express some sortof fear that's very palpable to
the person listening or in this case, the buyer, or you want to
express something aspirational and positive that they could
become that they can believe in.And I think that if you do one
of those two, you're going to besuccessful in whatever
advertisement you're doing. Yeah, I think you, I think
really what you get out of gorilla marketing is you get
(17:25):
genuine interest and genuine eyeballs.
Do you know what I mean? Like we talked again, we talked
last episode about sort of like buying eyeballs and how it's not
always great, depends on what you're doing and that kind of
thing. What I think about Gorilla is I
think of it as more sort of a. Just.
People are genuinely. Interested.
Can I give you some words? Can can I say like maybe it's
(17:47):
aligned with your brand values? Yeah, as gorilla versus a
gimmick is more like, you know, that shock effect where it's not
really aligned with your brand values, You're just trying to
get eyeballs. So whatever bottle of mayonnaise
fit into that. Category like 1 right?
That doesn't seem like what I guess really, what are the brand
(18:08):
values of a ketchup company? Yeah, I'd.
Make. Kind of gimmicky.
Sorry, Dad. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Hey, maybe it works though, too, right.
I bet it to your point, I bet ithad a really, really high
return. There's no way I couldn't have.
Yeah, You know, I think about the IKEA one, OK You're actually
giving people a place to sit, whether waiting for their train.
There's probably a whole lot more comfortable than train
station chairs, right? Yeah.
(18:30):
So there's actually a bit of. A legend.
I agree with that. Yeah, I think that's.
True. The the ketchup thing.
Do you ever? Hear of right, I have another
good idea story. OK, I just really quickly so
years ago there was this I can'tremember what year I think pre
pandemic there was this there was this thing where at IKEA's
there would be flash mobs who would play hide and seek in IKEA
(18:52):
stores yeah. So I don't know if these flash
rolls are very big probably like20-30 people something that like
kind of weird and so for a whileIKEA was like don't do this like
this like liability and we don'twant people like running in
random parts of our store. Oh gosh.
But then they just started leaning in.
They started like did. Yeah, they started going for it
there and all of a. Sudden it's not cool.
Actually, yeah. If Brandon wants to kill
(19:13):
something, just say, yeah, go for it.
Yeah, you know, us too, you know?
And yeah. But anyway, I thought it was
kind of interesting. This is kind of like a fun, like
they made it gorilla marketing. Yeah.
I don't know why people were doing it in the first place.
I guess it's just like a generalthing for IKEA, but they turned
something that was negative intoa positive.
So I think that's kind of interesting.
Yeah. So let me ask you a question on
(19:34):
cost. OK.
So your buddy Dan works in a marketing agency and they do.
This like the the Dan episode? Yeah, it is kind of the Dan
episode, but like is part of their pitch to clients about
doing these types of guerrilla marketing stunts that are
campaigns huh. Is it is it cost effectiveness?
Is it like this will get you more for less?
(19:55):
Is that their I? Think a lot of the time so he's
in house right so that the that he's an in house agency that
works that does all the stuff for for Heinz so when I I
actually think that OK so I havetwo thoughts 1 is that anybody
who goes through advertising school whether you're at a
college or university or whatever you.
You do copyright thing, they always gonna tell you is write
(20:17):
that we have this, this is the campaign, this is the product.
Give me 150 ideas. And they so they do a lot of
like really crazy and interesting brainstorming on.
I think there's actually a lot of the value of agencies because
these are professionally creative thinkers, OK.
And so they come up with those crazy stuff and then sometimes
they get the yes on it. But the reason I think for them
(20:37):
what they're trying to do, they are trying to win awards.
I think they are trying to say we are a really, really good
agency. We have a really spectacular
product because their product, Idon't think it could be much
more mature than than ketchup, right?
You know what I mean? Like you're right, moving the
needle even a half a percentage point would be really material.
But for them, like I'm sure there is at some point of
(20:58):
conversation on return. But I do think that most of the
time for them it's prestige. So was.
That Dan's idea by any chance? No, no.
I have no idea. Did not pull that off.
Come on, I don't. Know it's pretty fun.
It's a pretty fun idea, but I. Do you remember like oht boy,
like 30 years ago, maybe 25 years ago, a Heinz did the green
ketchup? Yeah, and the purple, purple,
(21:21):
purple, purple, purple at home. Yeah.
Ohhhhh. I didn't like it was purple as a
kid. I was like, I don't.
Eat this but like. I don't think that works now.
I think there's a real aversion now to even you see on the Heinz
ketchup bottles will say only like 3 ingredients or whatever.
Yeah, there's a real version nowto added ingredients.
I think if you were to be like, Oh yeah, here is like, doesn't
the red dye that we had as kids is like, is like a carcinogen,
(21:42):
like red dye 44 or whatever. Yeah, we're like, you know,
every kid, birthday cake and everything and like, Jesus.
Christ, how does the ketchup getthat red?
Tomatoes. Are they?
You know how ketchup gets red? Call in now.
Wow. Alright, well, whatever.
But I think it's can you go backto the stats what did how
(22:03):
effect? So you said 50% of people would
like it other ones? Never say gorilla marketing is
an effective promotional tool. 42% of millennials get
influenced by guerrilla marketing campaigns online.
What does that mean? 42% get influenced?
What does it mean to? Be influential idea this I I
hate this stuff in marketing because is that conversions?
Did they buy a bottle of ketchup?
(22:24):
Like did they influence? Anything with it?
Yeah. That's a huge #242% so and so
it's of people that see the ad. So almost half the people that
see the ad are influenced by it.So maybe that means they share
it or like it. Maybe that's trying to get at.
Maybe. That's when you get to that
virality and the virality coefficient, like how many one
person shares it to how many others.
(22:45):
Right. You know, I don't really know,
but all I wanna say is that I think when you are thinking
about advertising, you have to do something different.
You have to do something to get some attention.
For us, it was like postcards and big checks, OK For other
companies out there, like if you're just going to do the
exact same thing that everybody else is doing, it's going really
(23:05):
hard for you to gain any attention.
So it's really hard too. There's a gravitational pull to
doing ads similar to your competitors.
I don't know what that's all about.
I think it's you think, well, maybe they know something you
don't. You're gonna try and do it, but.
I actually don't. No, they don't.
And here's the the the other thing that what I would consider
for a lot of people, especially for smaller brands, you know, if
you're in the, you've got a couple million in revenue would
(23:27):
be ideal. But I think you could do this at
most sizes is take risks with marketing.
Yeah, do these things. Don't do the normal ads, do
something weird, get something out there.
And I think you'll you have a maybe a better chance of
success. I'm not promising anything, but
if you do something that's like,yeah, here's my banner ad,
here's my, you know, try it now.Put my logo.
(23:47):
Put my logo on it. They'll make the logo bigger,
you know, like you're like, likethat's not really gonna do it.
But I think being more aggressive and creative.
And that's, I think of think products that have done really
well regardless of gorilla or otherwise, like Liquid Death,
right? Yeah.
Like, took a like, it's, it's water, but took a category that
is like always about purity and like all these other things took
(24:10):
a totally different angle and actually leaned in as hard as
they could. Yeah.
And they did really well, Right.So.
Yeah, the opposite strategy I think is what that's called.
Like OK, do the opposite of whatI apparently Norway's tourism
board did a a marketing campaignof why they hate Oslo.
(24:31):
That would do well in Canada forToronto.
Why the rest of the country hates.
Toronto. But then everybody in the rest
of the country is going, yeah. I could, it could be funny as it
sucks, you know, like. So we like the Blue Jays.
Yeah, we do Canada's team, right.
But yeah, right on. That's that's, that's that's an
interesting take. So I think kind of like the
conclusion there is like, yeah, like take gambles Bush it do
(24:52):
something different place to do it.
And you have very little to losewhen you have almost no brand
equity anyway. And you'll find too, that bigger
players don't want to take thoserisks because they created so
much brand equity, Right, right.There's only, there's very few
brands that I can think of, likeoff the top of my head that are
willing to risk a lot all the time.
I think like Red Bull, like, youknow, they like, they, they're
(25:13):
willing to, like they're gonna do it because they, they're kind
of extreme. So they're gonna do extreme
stuff right on mission to your point earlier.
So anyway, but I think for your smaller company, that's where
you're gonna get visibility and traction.
Spend the money on it and give it a shot.
So there it is, your foolproof guerrilla marketing.
Doesn't involve an actual. Gorilla.
(25:34):
RIP Harambe. Alright, thank you folks.
Start it up. Let's get it rolling.
Big ideas, Money, hustle, Smart dream.
So why turn that grind into a joy ride?
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