#105 - Noah Williams - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
It's been a minute.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,excited to bring you guys an
episode today with none otherthan La Sportiva athlete, my
teammate, mr Noah Williams,currently residing in Leadville,
colorado, by way of Vermont.
Noah was kind enough to come onthe pod to catch up Just a few
weeks removed from his fourthplace finish at the Broken Arrow

(00:20):
46K, as well as a podium finishat the lavarito 80k just a week
later.
That's an impressive double hewas able to throw down, um, yeah
, super fun to catch up withnoah.
Noah is definitely one of themost competitive, uh, american
athletes kind of on theinternational scene right now,
both in golden trail, um, andamongst some others.
It was cool to get to uh kindof just chat with him, learn

(00:42):
about why he got into the sport,kind of his whys, what it was
like growing up in the North andup in Vermont, and just kind of
what his plans are.
You know where he wants to takehis career and just kind of
plans like that and where heplans to finish out the rest of
his 2025 racing season.
I couldn't think of a bettertime to have a conversation with
him, given just what kind ofheater he's been on, I know he
would probably say that you knowhis Broken Arrow performance

(01:02):
just a few weeks back wasprobably his most impressive
performance of his career so far, and so this kid's got a bright
future and it's going to be funto follow along.
So buckle up.
Hope you guys enjoy thisepisode.
It's definitely a favorite ofmine.
Without further ado, mr NoelWilliams, it's time.

(01:30):
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
We are live.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Noah Williams.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, buddy?

Speaker 2 (02:25):
It's good Thanks for having me, James.
I'm a longtime listener, soit's an honor.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh, dude, honestly, man, I've had you at the top of
my list.
I keep ongoing lists on myphone of people to have on the
pod, and you've been on my listforever.
I just have not been able toput it together.
So I feel like Broken Arrow,and what you did at Lava Redo
was just such an example.
I.
So I feel like broken arrow,and what you did at Lava Rado
was just such an example to like.
I'm like, all right, let's,let's do it Like we got to have
you on so excited to finally dothis and have a chat buddy.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah Like Russ.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, man, how's?
Uh, how are you feeling?
Like you had like a kind ofcrazy couple of weeks of racing
man?
How's the recovery going?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, definitely still feeling it pretty retired.
Um, you know, like I was, thatwas the plan for the whole
winter, so I've definitely been.
I knew it wasn't just goinginto that.
Well, I guess it labaredo feltlike maybe winging it a bit with
a distance that's a littlelonger than my normal and then
being a week later, but thebroken arrow was definitely that
was a big one, that was on thelist for a long time and and I
also yeah, and and I think yeah,focused on that for leading up

(03:32):
to it and yeah, it went so muchbetter than I could have
imagined.
And I'm really, I think it's thefirst time I've really noticed
the schema fitness translatingdirectly and not, you know,
directly and very well intorunning in the past years.
It's it's translated, but it'soften a little tricky to get
that fitness to to kind of rollover, um, and so I think, yeah,

(03:57):
maybe it's just years and yearsof it now and yeah, overall
feeling good.
I mean it's nice to be home I'min, you know, vermont, visiting
my brothers and my parents andnice to be sort of on home, like
familiar turf, but also, um,just getting destroyed by
humidity every day, of course,and uh, um, yeah, um, but
recovery's not bad.

(04:18):
Nothing in particular ispainful.
I'm just still tired a weeklater.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
So yeah, nice man, nice, yeah, dude the humidity
and the bugs, bro, like it's soit's buggy out here.
I've got like destroyed on someof the trails, like what yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
You'll.
Anyone who hangs out with me inColorado knows that my talk.
Like if you complain aboutmosquitoes around me in Colorado
, I'm not going to even likeFlint, like I'm not going gonna
bat an eye because it's I'velearned the hard way, especially
in maine, um, where, yeah, youjust get destroyed, and it's
like if there's not 20mosquitoes on my hands, uh, in

(04:52):
in instantly, like it's they'renot bad, they're not.
Mosquitoes aren't too bad ifthere's.
So there's a tolerance that youdevelop in the east coast no
for sure.
And the flies dude, the fliesbite you here I was like like,
yeah, yeah, and then the horseflies.
Those are the worst.
Watch out for them.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh man.
Well, dude, I gotta, I gottatalk, I mean, I gotta give you
your flowers.
Man Broken arrow was a hell ofa performance, like I would
argue.
I don't know if you feel thesame way, probably as far as,
like that world-class group goeslike one of your best
performances you've ever had,like just like amazing Thanks.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
I appreciate it.
Um, yeah, I feel like I've hada few in the past that have been
close to that, but I would sayI would.
I agree, I mean that field wasvery intimidating beforehand to
look at.
That.
I don't know.
I looked at the star list and Iimmediately regretted looking
at the star list because, justyou know, it's impossible to

(05:46):
feel like you can.
It just gives you, yeah, Ithink, my chances in my head.
I'm starting to like, you know,the rational part of me is like
trying to figure out what mychances are and like it starts
to be a bit unhealthy, I think,when you look into it too much.
So, but no, it was.
It was cool to see that thatthat was going to be assembled.

(06:07):
I mean, certainly I thinkeveryone's been saying this but
the the best 50 K field everassembled a marathon ish 50 K
field ever assembled on us soiland easily, and for it to be led
by a guy like Eli and David,like I mean it's, it's just a
testament to, yeah, howworld-class that field is and I
think anyone in the top 20 ofthat race should be very

(06:30):
thrilled with their performance.
I mean it was, it was a bigdeal and I just I think I
happened to come out with that,with that the first non
automatic spot or, as you wouldsay, or the first non podium,
but but but, uh, those threeguys were in their own in their
own race.
It really wasn't a race, it wasa race for fourth by the second

(06:52):
lap is what it felt like, and Ithink everyone in that four to
10 spot can sort of would agree.
I would think, um, and I wasgetting chased by some really
really strong guys, but yeah, itall came down to that second
lap.
In the steep part of the secondlap, I just, yeah, I started
having a feeling that is veryfleeting.

(07:13):
I felt it maybe in Pikes PeakMarathon 2022, when that was the
race that got me on the world'steam for Thailand, and I'd say
it felt similar to that in thesense of just feeling almost out
of body, a little bit like justyou're doing something, but and
you know, you, you know youhave the potential for that kind

(07:35):
of performance, but then you'redoing it and you almost don't
know how it's happening, sort ofso, and it's the kind of
feeling that you chase.
I mean, it's addictive and youkind of that.
That kind of thing keeps megoing for years.
I could have horribleperformances for five years now
and I'll still be like well, itmight happen again, you never

(07:55):
know.
So that's what's fun aboutracing Dude.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
You?
I mean, you knocked it out ofthe park, like I.
I I try to think of like afollow-up question is I I gotta
ask more about like in the mix,like one of the things I found
really interesting is that, likeyou weren't.
Obviously, it seemed like elidavid ryan were pretty much just
being chased the entire time.
More or less they were in apack of their own and it seems
like there was everybody elseright behind them.

(08:20):
It seemed like you moved up inthat second lap.
Was that the case?
I mean, that was just what Icould discern from the live
tracker.
But maybe talk about, likewhere you were able to make a
move, because it seemed like alot of guys wanted to be in the
position that you were in andbut couldn't just pull that part
off to be kind of be in thatmix closer to the end of the
race.
Like, how did that work out foryou?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, so the first lap I was definitely trying to
hold, hold back or conserve.
Now you can't hold back, butsort of be sustainable, feel
like you're not, you're not,you're not redlining, you're not
but you're, but you're workingwell, you're just not really
like totally spending yourself.

(09:00):
The beginning is very runnable.
You know, I hadn't really seenmuch of the course.
I'd heard about it.
Um, I've watched the race twoyears ago.
It was actually at broken arrowbut I didn't.
I didn't race cause of a calfinjury, and so this really felt
like.
I think that might've actuallybeen part of the mentality.
For me was just some feeling ofredemption.

(09:21):
Um, but yeah, so that firstfour miles is pretty runnable
and I mean it's like 20, a trainof like 20, 30 guys maybe, and
everyone is hanging out.
I mean we're running six, six,30 gaps, which you know I think
actually is conservative, butthen people are like chatting,
which is always always a bitintimidating.

(09:43):
Um, but I, I had the realizationa few miles in I was like this
this is the only, maybe the onlyrace in the U S that this would
happen, where there's 30, thismany guys running so quickly and
so easily, and, uh, it honestlyjust that entire race.
One of the themes was like justfeeling sort of national pride

(10:05):
for our, for our, the state ofUS trail running right now.
It's really cool, um, but butthen really like that, that
first part of the second lap,sorry, where the climb gets
steep, um, going up to wherethey call it storm King, the um.
That's where, like Eli andDavid and and Ryan established
themselves and actually Ryan wasthe one who really pushed that

(10:28):
climb and I watched that happenand I had been chasing him in
the ascent the day before andI'm like man, that is a ballsy
move, like that is.
I was impressed and I honestlythought it in my head.
I'm like that's a little maybenot that smart, like I was
thinking maybe that he's makingthe wrong move, but, uh, to his

(10:48):
credit, obviously it was not thewrong move.
He absolutely knocked.
I mean, sure I had a good race,but Ryan Becker, I'm so just
shout out Ryan Becker, like he,what a race and I'm so proud of
him for grinding.
And like you are no longerprofessional adjacent Ryan, like
you're there, you're rightthere.

(11:09):
Yeah, that was, that was a crazyrace, so good for him and I saw
that happening, but I didn'twant it.
That was not the pack I neededto be and that would have been
red lining for me and I thinkI'm glad I held back, didn't
realize they were going to putthe gap on the field like they
did, but that's just just whathappened.
So I was actually in likeeighth, ninth, most of that
first lap, um, hanging out withum um David Norris actually for

(11:32):
a lot of that steeper climb andwe were both feeling like it was
smart to sort of like conserveand we didn't.
But you know, fourth wasn'tpulling away Like I could see.
Fourth it was Jezz and uh, kade, michael, sort of going back
and forth for fourth and fifthand so they weren't really
moving away at all.
So I wasn't too worried and wewere honestly four to nine was

(11:52):
all sort of together going intothe second lap.
Um kade took a quick pit stop,um, very smart move on his part,
always worth it.
And then, um, I was right in.
I then you know I sort ofstarted.
I felt like the first part ofthe second lap in that runnable
section I was not feeling thatgood.
I was kind of like I don't know.

(12:13):
I saw Max King at one pointcheering and you know, I kind of
gave him this look of likewe'll see man, like I don't know
, um, you know, it was reallysort of waiting for things to
kick in and then, as soon as weget to the steep part again, I
see Jez and Cade and they're notthat far, they're fourth, fifth
and I, and in my head I, I,yeah, I think I just have a lot

(12:34):
of confidence when it's steepand things get higher up to be
for me.
So you know, I think maybe I'mthe only one who can say this.
Everyone was talking aboutaltitude, but that is not an
altitude race for me.
I mean six to 8,000 feet.
I mean 8,000 is 2000 feet lowerthan I sleep.
So it's not, it's low.
In fact, for me it's scarybecause it means I need to push

(12:55):
harder, uh, and actually use theoxygen, and so I think maybe
that was part of it was.
I was just feeling reallystrong as we got higher up.
But yeah, I pretty quicklycaught Kate and Jez, and you
know that was.
I knew if I was moving up there,that that's where you need to
use momentum and actually make amove, and I I dropped them

(13:18):
pretty quickly and I thoughtthey would start to catch me in
these little breaks.
There's anyone who knows thatcourse knows there's these
downhill breaks on the on thatlarger climb, and so it's not
just a consistent climb.
It requires I mean that wholecourse requires well-rounded
running.
The only thing it really missesis, like super techie downhill

(13:38):
sections.
I think the downhills areincredibly smooth, but other
than that it's you gotta bewell-rounded to to to to race
well on that course.
And I figured I'd get caught onthe downs, because that isn't
necessarily my forte is justslamming runnable downhills.
But I was actually gapping themon the downs as well, and by
the time I was closer to theladder I knew there was a good

(14:01):
gap and I and it was.
I was just in no man's land.
But at the same time I wasstarting to have the feeling of
like, oh my God, I might do this.
And maybe Ryan Becker?
I figured of the three guysahead of me Ryan was the one who
would fall back.
No offense, ryan, but Ryan andDavid have proven that they
don't typically fade and Ryanhas had some fades in the past.

(14:24):
That they don't typically fadeand Ryan has had some fades in
the past.
But this you know.
Thankfully for him, this timehe, he knocked it, he knocked
out of the park.
But anyway, that's what was.
My mental motivation was maybe Ican catch Ryan, if he fades,
and get that auto, that lostauto spot.
And and then I'm also thinking,you know, k Jezzer, on small
Brian Whitfield, I mean justname a name and they're behind

(14:46):
me and they're chasing andthey're not going to give up.
So there was no giving up untilreally I didn't feel like
things were, things were in thebag, as you might say, until I
was getting out of Shirley andShirley was.
I mean, you know, I went reallydeep.
I, you know, I don't know ifanyone heard me at that aid
station, but it was not prettyor it was ugly, like I was.

(15:10):
I was just doing everything Icould to like will myself.
You know, I this may have comefrom Nordic skiing, but like I
try to push over into a downhill, cause it gives you if you just
kind of ease off at the top ofa downhill, especially when
you're in no man's land and notracing anyone, you can easily
lose time without realizing it.
So I was forcing that.

(15:31):
And then, um, yeah, and then Ithink when I, by the time I hit
the road mile out.
I knew I had it and that waskind of or I was pretty sure no
one was really close behind anduh, that turned out to be the
case and yeah, it felt amazing.
I mean, just, you know, stillsort of couldn't believe it when
I was done.
But also probably, you know,obviously I I wasn't sure that I

(15:53):
was going to make the team, butI think fourth place makes a
good case for the um resume spotand it's definitely a goal of
mine to be on that team.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
So well, dude, first off, thank you for painting the
picture.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
That was like such a good race report I appreciate
that.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
I mean, I don't know how it works, but like dude, I
mean I've heard rumblings thateli's not taking a spot, like I
knew that before the race wasgoing in.
So if eli doesn't take the spot, it goes straight to you, right
?

Speaker 2 (16:18):
so it's not.
It doesn't roll over.
It would just mean that there'sfour resume spots instead of
two, is how I understand it.
But essentially, yeah, whatever, however you want to think of
it, but there's six guysregardless.
It's just a matter of how manypeople in the auto spots take it
and, yeah, so we'll see.
Uh, it'll be announced on the15th.
Um, so, yeah, excited to hearabout what that looks like, but,

(16:41):
either way, I don't think we'rethe us is sending an incredible
yeah, not having Eli's shirts alittle would be a bit of a
bummer, but, um, I still don'tthink it's going to hurt us much
.
You know, I think he's, he'shis reason to not do it is
honorable.
You know, trying to focus onCCC and he, if he, yeah, like I

(17:02):
talked to him after and he saidif someone else is more ready
and more focused on worlds, thenI want to give it to them and I
think that's a honorableposition.
But, uh, obviously, for myperspective, I mean, having Eli
Heming is definitely not anegative, for the team.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
No dude's a weapon.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
He's first team, all violence, like it would be
really cool to have eli on ateam, like no doubt no doubt win
occ.
That's, that's all you need tosay.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Well, dude, what a race,amazing to follow along and just
absolutely congratulations.
Like there's.
Not many people like that'slike that have ever run that
fast on that course and justbeen able to do that.
So, yeah, you must have feltamazing.

(17:43):
Let me ask you this so wholepoint all along was to go to the
broken arrow and then go turnaround and do the weekend after.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, um, yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
So what'd you do?
Hop a flight from likeSacramento or San Fran and like
that week.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
No, I drove from, but from broken arrow back to
Leadville, um, but from BrokenArrow back to Leadville.
My girlfriend is currentlyhiking the PCT, Emma.
I picked her up in Mammothbefore the race so she got to
see the race and her parentswere there and all that and got

(18:18):
to see her dog and that wasreally nice and having her there
was incredible.
I mean, that definitelycontributed to to the
performance I had, and, uh, andthen I dropped her off back in
mammoth after the race and drove14 hours back to Leadville, had
18 hours in Leadville, um,which was nice but way too brief

(18:40):
.
I love Leadville I know,definitely don't.
I'd like to stay there longerthan that if I could.
But then jumped on a plane and,yeah, flew to Milan and, uh, had
to stay in Verona nightactually, cause I screwed up.
Oh, I just overlooked the Milanto Cortina travel, which, if
anyone's ever in Italy don't, itis not easy to get from Milan

(19:00):
to the that side of theDolomites, um, you can't just
get trains easily, like Iassumed, so that was just a
little bit of a mistake.
And then, um, I ended upgetting to Cortina Thursday and
you know I'd been thinking aboutrunning the 50 K.
But I decided to do 80 K mainlybecause it was a day later and

(19:21):
also I wanted to do a slightlylonger distance, like closer to
a 50 mile effort.
And thank goodness becausethere, if that race, if I had to
do the 50 K on Friday, I thinkI would have imploded pretty,
pretty majorly.
And plus the 50 K field wasabsolutely stacked.
I mean Luca Del Perro andFrancesco poopy and um Alex, um

(19:43):
or or Bach, who's actually areally good schema racer.
But anyway, the 80K, I have toadmit, was, you know, compared
to the 120 and the 50K fields,not quite as stacked, but still
a great.
That's exactly the distancethat I want to start doing a bit
more of.
It's kind of that great middleground of.

(20:05):
Well, I still think my my umsweet spot is marathons and 50ks
.
Um, and and don't get me wrong,I mean I love, I love cirque
series, I love short, you know,I love kendall.
Like these short races are arestill super fun and they're a
lot more cutthroat.
But I I think I've been, I'vebeen doing a ton of six, eight,

(20:26):
almost maybe even 10 hour skisin the winter with tons of vert
and like that sets you up reallywell for a 50 mile mountainous
effort.
So what?

Speaker 1 (20:36):
do you think of the experience, like going out there
to race, like obviously it'sthe home of la sportiva, your
sponsor, it's like such abeautiful area, like what was
the reception?
Like What'd you think?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, at first it definitely felt I was like I was
totally alone.
I didn't really feel a ton ofsupport right when I got there.
But as soon as I startedmeeting Italians and you know
you're worried, you feel awkwardbecause you don't speak Italian
and um, but it doesn't matterbecause they all speak English
amazingly well and um, they areso nice and welcoming and as

(21:11):
soon as they, you know, sort ofheard my background and I think
some of them had beenanticipating me being there, but
a lot of them didn't know meand so, yeah, it stayed with two
guys on the Italian team whoone was in the 50k, one was in
the 120.
Um, shout out, jacopo andAlessio.
Great guys, um, gave me a lotof good advice and less Alessio,

(21:33):
the guy in the 120.
He had done this is like hisseventh year at La Vereta, so he
knew the course, he gave me allthe tips and um, yeah, it was
really cool.
They're just one big family.
You know, la Sportiva is familyowned still and and I think
that's awesome, I think it's.
I mean, I don't know how youfeel, I know you're on, you're

(21:55):
supported by them as well and,like, I think it's really cool
that they cause they make, theycan make decisions that a bigger
brand won't't be able to, or um, and so, yeah, I got to hang
out with them after the race.
We had a really fun night andthey were like, how are you
still out, like drinking with us?
And I was like, dude, I'm justa normal guy.

(22:16):
And they were like explaininglike that, if you're performing
like this in in europe, you'relike a superstar, so you
wouldn't even think aboutstaying out late and, like you
know, hanging out with employees.
And I'm like I don't think youunderstand in the U S like
nobody really cares about this.
So, like, don't think ofourselves as like I'm just a

(22:40):
normal person.
I don't really.
So there was one other Italianguy, you know, um, partying it
up a little but, um, but yeah,man, time got away from me that
night.
It was so much fun.
They were just, um, reallyreally welcoming and, um, I had
an awesome time.
I mean, that was definitelypart of the like.
It seems silly as an athlete todo those squeeze all the racing

(23:03):
into an eight day period.
But, you know, a major part ofthe motivation for me was to
make the connection with LaSportiva Italy and um see what
they're all about.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
So yeah, I gotta be honest with you, dude.
When I saw that email fromKelsey, like earlier in the year
, I re kick myself for nottaking the opportunity and going
like I feel like it'll be there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it's Ihighly recommend it.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
And you know I I'd been to the dolomites two years
before that and just terribleweather, and was in the tre
chima de labaredo area.
Like I should have been able tosee the tre chima, the
beautiful sort of like spirestower, uh sort of um outcrops,
but but I couldn't see anythingbecause it was just fog and rain

(23:48):
.
And so this time I saw it rightafter the first climb.
We were going straight throughthat area with that gorgeous
view and so I mean it was almostin the beginning it felt like a
bit of a sightseeing race andthen, uh, and then it got really
hard, really quickly.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
So was it super technical course or no?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I wouldn't actually quickly so was it super
technical course or no?
I wouldn't, actually wouldn'tconsider it super technical.
It's actually quite runnablebut it is also dense with
climbing, like definitely lotsof climbing, but it's all fairly
runnable, I would.
I I talked to of several sortof more locals.
Uh, martina, um blanking on herlast name, she's a, she's an

(24:26):
italian, incredible italianschemo athlete, um friends with
courtney, and so I was talkingto her and she said they
actually basically like thatcourse, like skips.
They could be technical but itskips a lot of the technicality,
um, and sort of goes for likethe more runnable road.
I mean roads, you know.
But yeah there's.

(24:46):
There were a handful of sectionsthat were like techie, but uh,
nothing like new.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
England.
I mean, no, that's super coolman.
Yeah, sorry, my dog squeaking atoy in the background it's
throwing me off.
Um, yeah, no I.
What a cool experience is.
Just what a bad-ass course.
Like, well, how did the raceunfold for you personally?
Like, obviously you got on thepodium like were you running by
yourself?
Were you chasing?
Were you with a big group ofguys?
Like how did that unfold foryou?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, we, um man, we started out faster at a higher
effort than what the brokenarrow field felt like in the
beginning, which I was lookingat, drew holman, I was like what
is?
I'm like this is, this is liketoo much but yeah, exactly, you
know, I sort of anticipated that, but it's like, until you
really see it happen, you'relike it's just funny because a

(25:35):
lot, most of those guys justcompletely well, they didn't
blow up but they just weren't inthe race by the fall off, yeah,
yeah, but um, it was kind of adouche, douche grade road climb
right off the bat.
So that might have been part ofit too, which, honestly, that's
kind of my thing, like I love,you know, mining grade roads.
Um, in colorado it sort of endsup actually being something I

(25:57):
do a ton.
So that was.
It felt like my home turf in away.
And then we got onto the trailand by the top of that first
climb there was pretty muchlet's see six or seven of us and
nobody was really like breakingaway.
Drew and I were right there inthe mix and I was pleasantly
surprised to be in that group.
So, cause I sort of figured Iwould feel it out by the time

(26:20):
the top of that first climbhappened, I figured I would have
a good sense of whether I'mlike going for podium or just
sort of like taking asightseeing tour around the
lights, you know.
But, um, but decided, all right, I think I can hang with these
guys and uh, you know, felt likeI was not pushing super hard.
It was a hard climb, it wassteep, but then we had a lot of

(26:42):
runnable down after that and Igot in, got into a good groove
with drew in the it was probablythe longest runnable flat
section.
I was actually like, yeah,super, super chill, slightly
downhill, kind of into thatfirst aid, which was like 25 K
in Um and drew and I were righttogether.
We're actually it was the topfour, we're all together.

(27:03):
We were.
It was really nice to just runwith drew and I were right
together.
We're actually it was the topfour, we're all together.
We were.
It was really nice to just runwith drew and, like chat, feel
like I was at home a little bit.
Um, I was having a lot of doubtscause that's not my distance
and I had.
It was like I'm not going tofeel good later in the race
because of broken arrow.
And drew was awesome, he wassuper encouraging and he just
said, like look like if you'rehurting some, everyone else is

(27:27):
going to be hurting too.
Like don't count yourself out.
And uh, that was, that was agreat confidence boost and it's
like I don't know.
I didn't know Drew, still don'tknow him super well, but, um, I
don't know, I can tell he's areally really nice guy,
incredibly humble, and like,yeah, if anyone gets the chance
to run with Drew, he's, he'sawesome.

(27:48):
But um left that aid with Drewand we were in second and third
and he pretty much right as wewere client right away, as we
were climbing out of that aid,like he pulled away, probably,
put a, he probably put a minutein a mile on me.
Actually I just knew and he hadthe special um, the special

(28:08):
nike shirt that everyone isasked with now after um, caleb's
incredible western statesperformance.
Um, but it was funny becausenow it's fun, like I get to say
that I didn't see it because ofcaleb olsen.
I saw it in the middle of arace when Drew put it on and I,
I I gave him shit right away.

(28:28):
I was like what are you wearing?
Like, what are you?
Are you a stylist now?
Like, are you like?
Is this like?
Is fashion your new thing?
Like he was.
But I'm running next to him.
So, as soon as I give him crap,I'm running next to him and
it's starting to get hot and I'mlike literally getting splashed
on, like just being near himand I was like, okay, I kind of

(28:50):
maybe this thing is.
And then, sure enough, he justpulls away and talk to him after
the race and he said he didjust feel really good, he wasn't
hot at all and I was startingto feel the heat and, you know,
at that point I was realizing,okay, I'm in third, I need to go
a pace that is sustainable here, like I need, and I have 29
more miles, like I need to gowith.

(29:13):
However much more climbing Ineed to this.
Whatever I was going to keep upwith drew would have been maybe
more of a 50 K effort was whatthat would have said or what was
what I was thinking.
So so, yeah, decided to kind ofjust go my own pace and from
then on it was just I was in noman's land the whole rest of the
race.
Just a gap to a second, and Iknew I had a gap behind me to

(29:35):
fourth because I couldn't seeanyone and just passing 120 K
runners and trying not to slowdown, trying to stay consistent
and eat, and I felt solid I meanI wasn't, it wasn't getting any
better, like, but I wasn'tfading super hard, I was sort of
just waiting for something tosort of hit a wall.

(29:58):
Got to Colgolino, which is mileor kilometer 56.
And my parents were there.
I actually had no like specificsupport plan.
I just sort of got what Ineeded from AIDS and uh, that
actually thankfully worked outfine.
I'm also lucky that with thealtitude advantage, my stomach
is not nearly as much of anissue if we're staying below

(30:21):
8,000 or 9,000 feet.
So I don't feel like I needsuper specific nutrition If I'm
at altitude.
That's a real altitude.
Sorry, I know that soundspretentious, but what are you
gonna do?
I live in Leadville, sorry,yeah, if it's above 10, then
that's a different story, but ifit's not, then I think I can

(30:41):
sort of get away with likedifferent types of food and not
anything super specific.
So anyway, parents were justsort of there for moral support
and it was awesome.
I would be looking forward tothat for probably 10 miles,
cause I was totally alone and itwas just I was beginning to
suffer, but not luckily, theydidn't see me like totally in
the pain cave, I think.

(31:02):
Well, they've seen that before,so they know what they're
getting into.
But yeah, after that was when itreally started getting rough.
There was a long climb out ofColgolina and I was just I was.
That was when I was like Imight start fading back through
the field here and I think itwas just strong enough.
You know, there was a lot ofafter that last climb out of

(31:25):
Colgolina.
There wasn't a ton of climbingleft, it was mostly going
downhill, but it was just veryshort, punchy climbs.
One in particular that was justsoul crushing and more than you
expect.
Like you know, when an Italiantells you it's all downhill,
don't believe them, Cause that'snot the case there.
Finally, I get to the last coalor pass, and they, I can see

(31:47):
cortina and it's like, okay, nowit's actually all downhill and
I was very relieved.
And then, of course, that lastdownhill is the worst of them,
like it.
It probably at one point feltit felt like we descended 1500
or 2000 feet in a mile, like itreminded, reminded me of Sears
and all.
I was just like you know, but Iwas 45 miles in, so it was just

(32:08):
, it was awful.
I think I stopped straight up,stopped on that really steep
section, cause I just yeah, Ijust the pain was too bad and I
must have lost time there quitea bit on Drew and Dominicic, and
then probably fourth wasstarting to catch me.
But I just had a big enough gapand, um, luckily, as soon as it

(32:30):
mellowed out and got morerunnable, I just ran it in and,
you know, I hit the streets ofcortina and then you're, there's
no pain, you're, you knowyou're right.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, dude, what a race.
That's crazy.
Would you like better?
Do you like?
Uh, do you think you'll go backand do something like that if
we have the opportunity to inthe future?

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, I might actually want to do the 50 K?
Um in the future, especially ifI'm not, you know, back to
backing it like I did this year.
Um um I.
In terms of which were yougoing to ask about broken arrow
versus Lava Rado?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, now that you've got to see like two loops on
broken arrow yeah, I mean,course-wise, labaredo hands down
.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I mean it's epic, it's, it's absolutely insane.
Anyone who's racing thedolomites knows what I'm talking
about.
It's just, I mean I I need togo back and soak it in and
actually enjoy the views.
I mean, every single time I gotto a pass, I'm just blown away
like absolutely spectacularscenery, um, but race wise,
broken arrow for sure, way morecompetitive, way more cutthroat.

(33:29):
Like I was running scared, muchmore scared at the end of
broken arrow than I was at theend of Labaredo, um, but you
know, at the same time, likethere was less on the line once
I had that performance at brokenarrow, so that was definitely
huge.
Like I think going into any racefeeling like you have nothing
to lose is a very good positionto be in, and if you ever think

(33:54):
a competitor has that mentality,you should look.
You should look out, becausethey're going to sandbag you and
say, oh, there's nothing, Idon't really care, there's
nothing to lose.
You should watch out, forwhoever this says is saying
because, yeah, I, I had aninkling that it could go well,
but I, especially with theinternational travel, um, you
know, I, yeah, I mean I waspretty good that week, though,
even though I was traveling alot.
I you know I'm the kind ofperson that I enjoy beer, like I

(34:18):
like having a beer or two anight kind of thing, nothing
crazy.
But I didn't drink at all thatweek.
I was like I need to.
Prior, I was all about recovery.
It was all okay, I had one beerthe night before just to like
settle the nerves.
But compared to my normalroutine, that was a big change
and I think it makes adifference.
I think, you know, I mean maybeI should do that all the time,

(34:38):
except that won't happen.
I mean I like I like my, mylittle, my small pleasures in
life.
I think it's important to likehave a balance, but but yeah,
for certain specific timeframes,just really really going all in
and like on recovery.
I think that helped, um, andbut yeah, mostly it was, it was

(35:02):
the confidence from the winterand um, and really I mean the
confidence from broken arrow waswas a big thing too.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
So it's interesting.
I got to ask you about thetraining question, man, and this
is something that's been.
It's just like on my mind andsomething I bring up to a lot of
people, cause it's a constantdebate, because you live so high
up, right and my.
My question with living so highup is is like, when you get to
these races at lower altitudes,your ability to generate power,
and it's like that's not anissue for someone like you, and
cam has the same thing.

(35:29):
Cam doesn't have a problem withbeing able.
Obviously, cam spends likeweeks in the gym.
I don't know what your scheduleis like and how you're able to
do it, but like it's justinteresting to me seeing guys
come from higher altitudes andstill being able to perform
really well, like you've gotthat advantage obviously from
like a, almost like a yourability to utilize oxygen, but
also it's the ability togenerate power, which has me so,

(35:51):
so perplexed.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, I don't, I'm not going to lie Like I don't do
a ton of extra stuff.
I think I could benefit fromthat.
Um, you know, one of thefactors for me is that I, you
know, my job in the winter isski patrol and I do think, first
of all, I think Schemo ingeneral sort of builds power
regard, like, even if you're athigh altitude, I think you can

(36:16):
generate, or you can I'mbuilding muscle groups that are
good for generating power inrunning, just because I'm doing
that much vert all the time Imean in previous winters.
So the way I generally measurevolume in the winter is I
generally measure volume byhours, but in the winter I focus
a little bit more on vertbecause that seems to sort of be

(36:38):
more relevant.
And then in the summer it's acombo of those of mileage hours
and vert for running.
But in this winter I inprevious winters I've been able.
So I do.
I work four day weeks and I havea split week.
So I work two days on two days,two days on one day off, two
days on two days off.

(36:59):
So on the and that's specific,like my boss allowed me to do
that because I'm an athlete Um,if I worked less than four, I
wouldn't get paid, so that's notan option for me.
But um, um, the what allows meto do is on those days off I can
do long those six to eight hourskis, and that's pretty much

(37:20):
what I was doing.
I mean six to eight hours oncea week and then on the other
days I'm doing, you know,minimum two to four, with
probably more intensity, um,some some hard climbing at some
point.
I mean, I would say most of myintensity comes from just hard
climbs and that's what motivatesme.
I try to focus on what.

(37:40):
What really motivates me islike interesting terrain.
I really like finding um bigclimbs and just dialing them in.
I mean, at first it was kind ofAlbert in the summer I would
dial in Albert, you knoweverything you might just went,
rogue completely went up, no, um.

(38:02):
So yeah, likebert's been astaple of mine.
I found some really greatterrain in Camp Hale or outside
of Camp Hale.
A lot of people don't know thatarea.
It's more, there's moresnowmobile traffic but there's a
ton of because of that.
They have good groomed terrain.

(38:24):
Good groomed like trails andlike um, I can, so I don't have
to always break trail and I'malmost always training on my 65
underfoot schema set up.
So cause it's just the lightest.
And I've been able to find somelike 2000 to two and a half
thousand foot climbs that aresuper, um, just good for

(38:47):
training, like not crazy steepbut like steep enough that I can
really get some good poweroutput.
And then, yeah, I'm honestlynot in the gym much, but I do
think Schemo kind of I think Cammight agree a little bit here
like schema builds strength in avery specific way, especially
with a polling, like it keeps myupper body engaged, it keeps it
keeps my aerobic system alittle bit more diverse, I guess

(39:10):
, if you want to, if that's, ifthat's even a thing.
Again, I'm self coach, so I'mkind of talking, talking out of
my ass a little here Like Idon't it's, it's you got, you
get the four you figure out theformula that works for you.

(39:33):
So it's interesting, yeah, and Ithink that is huge.
I think any coach sort of knowsthat, um, but um yeah.
So basically not really in thegym a ton, I don't do a ton of
specific stuff there, but I dothink I get sort of like
inherent strength from theactivities I'm doing on ski
patrol, like if I'm running apatient down the Hill in a
toboggan that's two or 300pounds behind me that I have to
support and control, and I dothink there's sort of inherent
strength there.
I also think being on your feetall day I mean I've used the

(39:57):
term ghost volume before becauseit doesn't I'm not going to
record everything on Strava atwork, and so I sort of think
that get volume, uh, or at leastmaintain a baseline of fitness
Cause in so so.
So I guess, going back towinter volume for a second to be

(40:17):
, the big difference this seasonwas I was probably doing more
like maybe 10, 10 grands avert aweek, maybe 15 in previous
winters, whereas this winter itwas pretty much always closer to
20,000 feet, which ended upbeing, you know, 10 to 15 hours,
um, and on top of the four daywork week and so probably

(40:42):
essentially a 50% increase involume compared to previous
winters and that I do think thatthat that amount of volume has
transferred to runningincredibly well this year.
And I had the feeling in May,when I was sort of doing my
major transition towards runningand mountain running, I just

(41:03):
started feeling like climbingwas really good, like I just
nothing was crazy.
I never you know nothing wassuper sexy about it.
Like it was just sort of likeoh, that felt good, that felt
solid, and maybe it wasn't evenmy fastest segment that I've
ever done on that, whateverclimate it was, but it would
just be like pretty close to thefastest and significantly less

(41:26):
effort than I felt in the past.
So I had an inkling that theclimbing was going well, but no
it.
I had a ton of doubt, goinginto broken arrow, I mean, I
think I think even those topthree guys for sure like yeah,
yeah, yeah, looking at a fieldlike that, you just it's a roll
of the dice, you really have noidea.

(41:47):
Um, but it's exciting.
And like I think if the majortakeaway for me was like focus
on yourself, you know, likedon't get caught up in no
offense podcasts, you know it'seasy to get like roped into
media and hearing what otherpeople are doing I think it's
great to listen to, but don'tlet that influence your, your

(42:09):
routine and what the things thatyou know get you fit, cause I
think anyone at my level knowswhat gets them fit, like whether
you're coached or not.
You gotta know yourself coachedor coached by someone else.
But but yeah, um, yeah, focuson your process because
everyone's slightly differentand you know we're it's a young

(42:30):
sport Like we're.
We don't, we're not dialed inlike cycling or road running or
track running where, like,everyone knows exactly what it
is.
We're just not that developedyet.
So so it's great, it's, it'sawesome.
It's a really cool time tofigure out.
You know what works.
And I think one thing like it'scool to see, like Nordic skiing

(42:52):
, that that background clearlyhas something about.
There's something about thatkind of background that
translates into um, you knowmountain running and trail
running, um, and I think schemais sort of right.
In that same vein, um, andpeople are just discovering that
in the U?
S, I mean um, you know, euroshave been doing it for decades,

(43:14):
but um, anyway, sorry, no, dude,you're on it.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I think there's a lot .
There's so much to unpack outof that.
I think number one dude, it'sfunny I don't, I don't really
listen to, like I don't look.
Well, first off, I definitelydon't listen to my own podcast,
but like I don't really consumerunning media just because, like
you get a lot of advice and alot of it's bullshit and a lot
of it just doesn't work for you.
You have to find what works foryou.
That's the first.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Right, you think you're totally right and you
could take probably.
Well, I know Ryan's on skis alittle bit, but like Eli's not
really on skis at all, right,and like different dudes get
different, like everybody getsfit for a race in so many
different ways.
Some people are on the bike,schemo either.
I'm just.
I think it works for me and itclearly works for other guys and
I think one of the thingsthat's huge is the mental mix-up

(44:17):
, like I ran year-round incollege.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Uh, you know the track cross-country grind, and
if I were still still doing thatwell, I wouldn't be running.
I don't think it's just at theend of the winter I get really
excited for running, and then atthe end of the fall I get
really excited for Ski Mo again,and that seasonality approach

(44:40):
has always worked for me.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
And it's very common.
And, like you see, like youknow, I think Jim in a lot of
ways made that more well knownwhen he made his video about
UTMB.
Right, he did like when it goesto Europe he may does a full
schema season and then kind ofgoes into running, and I think
that opened a lot of people Iguess you could say normies is
probably the right word open toeyes, to like people that aren't
really in the sport to kind ofsee or maybe they're in a sport

(45:04):
to to a certain extent, to see,like how some of that works.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
so it's interesting I mean, we're such a diverse
sport.
It's really exciting.
You can come into it from somany different angles and I
think hopefully people can justsee that there's a lot of
different ways to skin the catright.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Yeah, yeah well, this is, this is where I was going
with this.
So, and just because this isout of pure curiosity from a
training perspective, obviouslyfor race, like broken arrow,
like you need turnover.
Like you, it's a running.
You're not really hiking at all, it's a run.
You're running most, prettymuch every step of that course.
Are you?
When you're transitioning offthe skis onto running again, are
you hitting track workouts?
Like, what are you doing forturnover and run economy?

(45:41):
Are you just playing in themountains, just running?
For For the most part, that'sincredible.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I mean I do strides.
I think strides are.
Strides are great.
I always could do a little bitmore of them.
Um, yeah, I struggle a lot withthis, the extra stuff and uh,
you know it's possible.
What I'm doing isn't like Ifeel like it's sustainable right
now, but maybe in a couple ofyears I look back and I'm like
man, this was not, it didn't, Iwasn't doing enough extra work.

(46:08):
I do find, as I'm getting olderI mean I just turned 30, like
you know, you do have to put abit more work in.
Recovery isn't as easy as itused to be, but I think what's
not getting any worse is theoverall volume.
I call it historic volume.

(46:29):
You've probably heard that term, but you just keep building on
it and it gives you this reservethat you can always fall back
on, even if you get injured fora long time and you're out.
I mean I know you're comingback from an injury right now.
You know how that goes, but thethe more background you have in
just being active and living.

(46:50):
It doesn't even need to betraining, like living an active
lifestyle.
I mean I did two years of likejust sort of seasonal, like ski
instructing and summer camp work.
I was active, I was outside allthe time but I wasn't training
and I and I needed that mentalbreak from from college, um, but
I do think I do think mycollege background and just like

(47:14):
competitive the sort of thattraditional pedigree, as you
might say like I ran D three.
I ran at Williams college, soit was not not not at all like
crazy competitive, but but I hadmy four, I had a lot of formal
running training and I had agreat high school coach and a
great college coach who whotaught me a lot about training

(47:35):
structure and running economyand I think I think those years
improved my running economyamazingly well, Um, and and I do
think that I in some wayshaven't lost that Um, but yeah,
I do think strides are important.
I think if you're not going todo track work and you want to be

(47:56):
running well, yeah, likemarathons and 50 Ks or shorter,
you know you really need to beat least doing strides because
it just it gives you that snapand you need to have some neuro
muscular work basically, and Ithink I could do a lot more of

(48:17):
that.
I mean, that's a huge area ofimprovement that that I could
could work on Um but uh, but Ialso, you know, I did golden
trail for the last two years andI struggled man Like and I
think that was part of it, Ithink by the end of last year.
So I placed 32nd in the worldranking, which is just outside

(48:37):
of the top 30, which means youdon't get invited back the next
year, and so I took it as a.
I was pretty bummed, honestly,and then, and then I started
taking realizing it was anopportunity to to move on and
and move into these distancesthat I feel like are more that
suit me better.
Um, but also, um, I think partof the reason I was struggling

(49:01):
to compete in golden trail, likeI was I was hanging but I
wasn't, I wasn't knocking it outof the park ever um is because
I'm I I don't do as much speedwork and, to be honest, um,
speed work or specific workoutstructures and stuff like that
Maybe it's just that I haven'tdone enough in the or lately,

(49:22):
but it doesn't excite me thesame way I.
I try to focus a lot more onwhat's motivating me, like if
I'm doing a workout and I'm notin it mentally, I mean I'm not
going to, that's, that's, itdoesn't even matter what the
workout is, I'm not going to getwhatever benefit I'm looking
for, whereas if I'm running ahard climb in a beautiful place

(49:42):
and I'm excited about theterrain I'm in, I mean I did a
couple of weeks in the EasternSierra before Broken Arrow,
partly supporting my girlfriendon her through hike and partly
training, and I was just lovingit.
I was just like smashing thesehuge climbs and being like just
in total awe of the scale of theEastern Sierra.

(50:03):
And I think that being excitedfor training mentally matters a
lot more than whatever specifichow much zone four are you doing
or how much?
I just don't think.
For me, at least, those detailsdon't matter as much as the
sort of mental drive to get outthe door every day and to go

(50:27):
kick ass, you know.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah Well, dude, whatever you're doing is working
, bro, so don't change it.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I mean, I guess it is .
But again, it's like it is easyto look at other people's stuff
and think what am I doing wrong?
So, anyway, stuff and thinkwhat, what am I doing wrong?

Speaker 1 (50:45):
so.
So I know I don't like, like wesaid, there's there's more than
so many different ways to skina cat, so many different ways to
get a fit for a race and dostuff like that.
That's so interesting on thegolden trail side man like I I
mean, obviously I know, like youknow, you got your gary
corcoran's of the world likethat come from such a
traditional gary garrett, yeah,wild boy, um, you know just, uh,
like he comes from such atraditional background in the

(51:05):
sense of like the you know thed1 and everybody's different sub
four in the mile.
he's so fucking and like youknow what dude.
The funny thing about him toois like like I I wish I could be
, at least I don't know.
I don't know garrett super well, like if I'm on the pod I know
him, but like I don't know himlike a like a friend, friend
know him, but like he comesacross like very nonchalant,

(51:26):
like he just like is veryrelaxed about it, whereas like
that's just interesting to mewhere you get people that are
the total opposite, that arelike super professional and
super serious, and our sportsjust at a crossroads where you
get so many different kinds ofpeople, especially like on the
golden trail side, which isinteresting.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, and I have to shout out Garrett too, cause he,
he, he made those two years ongolden trail far more enjoyable.
Like I think some of the euroson that circuit started seeing
us as the as the party Americanboys or whatever.
But like I'm not, I'm not, thisisn't everything in my life.
You know what I mean.
This isn't, this isn't all thatmatters to me.
And I have ski patrol, I have agreat community in Leadville,
like if races don't go well,it's okay, it's not a huge deal.

(52:14):
And I think he's in that mindsettoo.
Like because he also came fromthat crazy track background.
Like I think that is a nicesort of perspective that you get
from track is, if you do haveit, that background, especially
a D1 background, you know whereyou stand.
Like we're not Olympic trackrunners here, you know.
I think even look at, likeChris Myers, you know the small

(52:35):
boy thing Like that comes frombeing in Boulder and realizing
that.
Put it in perspective.
Like we're trail runners, we'renot all of that, you know,
we're not like making millionsof dollars here.
Like so don't take it soseriously.
Like have fun with it.
I mean, who knows, in 20 yearswe this might not be possible.

(52:58):
You know we might.
We might be fully soprofessional that if you have
two beers a night you're notcompeting.
You know, like and sure that's,it'll be I'll.
I'll watch it from my armchairand like laugh on TV at that
point yeah sure, and that'sthat's probably going to be cool
.
But I think we're also diverseenough that you know we're.

(53:19):
Hopefully we can hang on tothis sort of the grassroots
nature of it too.
And anyway, garrett embodiesthat really well, I think, and I
mean he was.
You know he has a hip injuryright now and like couldn't
finish the four to six K whichyou know he's never DNF and it's
so.
It's so hard to to DNF in a bigrace like that, especially when

(53:42):
everyone's talking about youand how you're a big contender.
And then, instead of going in,like like anyone would have been
reasonable to do, go, go sulkand hide or or not want to be
around the finish.
He's right there, he'shigh-fiving me, he's sending out
PBRs.
Like I was going to say he wasat the bar with Michelino, yeah.

(54:04):
Like I was gonna say he's atthe bar with michelino, yeah.
I mean it's just so done withmichelino.
He's not racing because he'sinjured, but he's there and he's
cheering people on and having agood time and like that's,
that's the.
Those are the people you wantto be around, you know so no, I
love it, man.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I think that and that's, that's the embodiment of
the sport that I enjoy.
I gotta ask you this like wheredo you want the sport to go?
Like what direction?
Because, like, we see thisdichotomy now, where there's
like this ultra professionalismand I just still think that like
, yeah, I know there's like sixfigure contracts getting thrown
around out of people, but it'slike, even with that, to me I

(54:37):
think we're still not a verylike serious sport and I don't
think it should be.
I think it's about, first andforemost, at least to me, sport,
and I don't think it should be.
I think it's about, first andforemost, at least to me, the
way I feel, like it's about themountain culture and like
embodying that and like havingfun in the mountains and doing
your best to test yourself inthe mountains, and that's what
it should be.
But I don't know.
You tell me no I'm.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
For me, it's all about being out in the mountains
as much as possible and and andjust, there's so many things
about that.
I think you get it in othersports right Hikers, get it.
Skiers, I mean, I'm more, I'malmost more, of a skier than a
runner, probably, but um it, themountains make you feel small

(55:18):
and it gives you a humility thatI mean.
Mountaineers know this morethan anyone, right it, just you
are not.
I'm never out there being likeI smashed that climb.
So now I have conquered thismountain, like, if anything, the
harder I smash a climb or putan effort in in the mountains,

(55:39):
the more humbled I feel.
I'm just feeling like lucky tohave escaped, uh, lucky to have
been in a cool place, um, andnot gotten injured or gotten in
crazy weather.
Um, you know, plenty of times Ihave gotten into it, crazy
weather and, um, I mean, mything is speed, is safety in the

(55:59):
mountains, honestly.
But in terms of trail runningas a sport, I think I you know I
do want to see it in theOlympics.
I think it absolutely deservesa place in the Olympics.
I think it's probably going tolook like other sports where
there's an Olympic discipline oftrail and that's.
I think that's fine, right, it,um, it, it.

(56:19):
It allows for more eyes andmore diversity and the sport's
going to grow because of that.
I mean it's already growingbecause of things like Golden
Trail, and I think Greg Vollethas a great vision with that.
He wants to give the IOC a goodexample of what trail could

(56:42):
look like in the Olympics andthe flower format an amazing
idea, I think that's.
He knows from the mountain bikehow the Olympics changed
mountain biking, that we don'twant the same, the same loop
over and over because that'sjust pretty lame and uh.
But even if that is the caseright, hopefully it isn't even
if it is that it will be theOlympic discipline, it's not

(57:05):
going to be all of trail.
It's not.
I think people have.
I've heard people makearguments of and you know I was
in that boat too at first when Ithought about the Olympics, um,
or trail being in the Olympics.
You know it's like, oh no, Idon't, I wouldn't want that.
But I think that I've comearound to like we could use, we
could, definitely it'd be.
It would be really cool to seethe sport grow, keep growing the

(57:27):
way it, the way it has been.
I think I think we should justcelebrate our diversity and the
fact that we can have yeah, thefact that we can have, you know,
hundreds of thousands of peoplewatching the Cocodona 250 live
stream and then, a couple ofweeks later, the same number of
people watching the Cocodona 250live stream and then, a couple
weeks later, the same number ofpeople watching Broken Arrow or

(57:48):
Western States.
I mean, there's just so manydifferent things to get excited
about.
You know, honestly, I do feellike it's coming around now, but
ultras, ultra running andultras in general have taken the
limelight in terms of media um,in a bit too much.
I think it actually has takenaway from development of sub

(58:11):
ultra and I don't even think weshould call like even the fact
that we need to say the word subultra because we have to.
Everything has to be inrelation to ultra, I mean um you
know that I like this is thisis and this is a hot take.
There are going to be peoplethat disagree with me here.
But look, ultra running is notthat competitive.
It is competitive in two racesWestern States and UTMB Okay,

(58:34):
but and I'm not like Western inboth those races are incredibly
competitive.
Um, when you're winning a raceby hours, it's not.
It's a race, sure, but it's notcompetitive.
And you can even just do themath, you can normalize for
distance.
You know it's, it's, it's justnot.
It's a newer sport.
There's less people involved,there's less people that want to

(58:55):
destroy their bodies in thatway.
And I think but I think what'shappened has media has focused
so much on these ultra eventsbecause, you know, there is, I
think there's like maybe morepotential for storytelling.
But I think it's just thisweird sort of bias is,
particularly in the U S, towardsultra running.

(59:17):
I mean, I, I I've gottenpressure from previous sponsors
that are set have told me well,we would love to just see you
get top 10 at western and I'mlike, no, I'm gonna go represent
the us for the 40k team atworlds and then and the they
don't know what that even meansand it's a shame.

(59:37):
It really is like these brands.
Some of these brands inparticular, need to wake up and
realize that the competitive subultra scene is where you're
going to find future competitiveultra runners.
Like what do you think is goingto happen when the East Africans
decide to move up to a hundredmiles?
Like, do you think Western'sgoing to be over 13 hours?

(59:58):
No, they're going to get a coolyear and they're going to run
insanely fast because it's atrack.
Okay, sorry, I know there'sclimbing in Western.
You know I don't want to go toofar, it's not very technical.
It's not technical at all, no,it's it's Cali carpet for sure,
but there is a lot of climbing,you can't.
You can't deny that, eventhough it's net downhill.
Um, but I'm race.

(01:00:29):
Um, um, I think it's reallycool how competitive it is and
the history around it, but Ithink we obsess over it too much
.
To be honest, I think I get alittle tired of seeing all the
Western stuff and, hey, I wantto run it someday too, don't get
me wrong.
Um, I think when I run it I'llunderstand the race better and

(01:00:49):
I'll have a better perspective.
But yeah, I think if we're goingto get more people into this
sport, we should be promotingthings closer to Golden Trail.
You know, not everyone has tobe running these crazy fast
times, but it's like who's goingto look at a hundred and be
like I want to run a hundred now, like it's?

(01:01:11):
It's just.
First of all, it's unfair.
You shouldn't just jump intorunning and run a hundred miles,
but you can easily jump into atrail half or a trail 10 K or
something, like Cirque I mean,julian Carr and what he's doing
with Cirque is incredible.
Like those races should be more.
There should be more eyes onthose races, I think, than there
are, and so, anyway, that's,that's my, my rants and I'll

(01:01:38):
I'll end it there.
I still respect a lot ofAmerican ultra runners, but I
also think they're lingering inthis weird time period where it
just hasn't gotten thatcompetitive yet and they have
these big egos that areoverblown by the media.
Um, anyway, sorry ultra runners, look out, you know, like sub
ultra guys are coming and it's,it's not going to slow down.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
So well, that's the thing dude like.
And when start these dudesstart moving up?
Because that's the thing likeit is.
We all know how All right,Broken Arrow, 46K, probably the
best example Most of those guyshave not run 100 miles.
Most of those guys are kind ofin between the 50K and down
distance, more or less.
You see Eli now who's moving upand has moved up.

(01:02:18):
He'll go to CCC.
Dude Eli's going to absolutelywipe the floor with everybody at
CCC.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yeah, I mean, we'll see, I Eli's going to absolutely
wipe the floor with everybodyat CCC.
Yeah, I mean, we'll see.
I think he's respecting thedistance.
I think that's always, you know, anyone jumping up in distance
you have to write like, but Ithink, um, yeah, I, I, I'm
curious to see how he goes.
For sure, um, I think I think Iagree with you, I gonna, he's

(01:02:46):
gonna content.
Eli's the kind of guy he's notgonna go into a race without
trying to win the race.
He's, he knows he's that goodand and he should be trying to
do that, you know he's.
I think jim took that mentality, has taken that mentality too,
and I think eli should istotally capable of that as well
so yeah, and to your point too,with brands.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Yeah, dude, it's.
And this is this actually goesto the ryan becker subject,
because I've talked to ryan somany times about this where it's
the, the why am I not sponsoredconversation?
But it's like, at the same time, it's like you can be the most
consistent, one of the mostconsistent athletes in in the
sub-ultra category or kind ofthat 50k distance and down.
But then, for instance, someonegoes in, I don't know maybe

(01:03:24):
like gets on the podium of blackcanyon right, but it's done,
it's dropped a bunch of racesbefore, not even done that much
goes and gets on the podium ofblack canyon randomly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
And then they and wind up with a contract for the
toka or whatever it's like whatthe fuck I think francesco poopy
was really cool to see that heturned down his golden ticket,
golden state's ticket, whateverit is Probably would have won
too this year.
Sure, he could have yeah,certainly mixed it up with those

(01:03:53):
guys, I think.
But his point, one of hispoints, was that my vision of
trail running is not Westernstate centric, and I think
that's it's.
So it was almost a relief forme to hear that, because he's
such a big figure and for him tomake that point was just it was
like thank God, someone'sfinally someone with that kind

(01:04:14):
of following, is finallyspeaking up about how Western
States is.
It's like not all that, allthat it is.
I mean, it's just there's somuch more to do than go run
downhill through hot canyons inthe heat of the summer.
I mean um, um, but uh, but yeah.
So I think another thing that Ithought was interesting about

(01:04:37):
francesco's story is he wastalking about laverado in this
context of.
I think it was what.
A couple years ago he won the50k for the first time and just
ran insane like huge courserecord, like he was, and so I I
was.
Before I heard this, I had thismentality of this.
This sub ultra or this ultrabias is in mostly in the in

(01:04:59):
America, but he was saying, well, he felt like a lot of the.
He'd been on golden trail forseveral years before that, just
crushing it like making podiumsand like running with the best
in the world in sub ultra, andthen, of course, figured he
could have a chance for the winand the course record at Lava
Rado.
But a lot of people in Italydidn't respect him that much and

(01:05:23):
then all of a sudden, as soonas he wins Lava Rado 50 K,
there's all this respect andmedia hype and attention and he
was like well, I, I don't knowhow you didn't like for him.
It's like how did you not seeit coming?
You know, and I think anyonewho is a huge fan of his
probably felt the same way Likehe was going to do that, you
know, and like I think you knowsomeone who's like if you don't

(01:05:44):
know who, eli Hemming, I mean,who doesn't at this point?
But you know, if you'reoverlooking Eli Hemming and CCC,
I mean, you figure, figure itout, cause you're good luck.
Yeah, he's gonna, he's gonnacrush and and I think, yeah,
we're just seeing that happeningmore and more.
And uh, yeah, it's, there's anew wave, uh, coming in.
That that is that is spendingtheir time in the short races

(01:06:08):
while they're young and doingbecause, first of all, you can
race more.
I mean, geez, I mean I'm, youknow, I want to race more than
less.
If I can't, if I run hundreds,I can race maybe three times a
year and that's probably even abit much so.
So racing more, um, training,you know, training, that that
higher intensity, I think whenyou're young, I mean absolutely

(01:06:31):
it's great It'll come in handyin those ultras when you're
older.
And then, and then moving moregradually into ultra.
I think one of the things aboutthat ultra bias that's so
damaging is you're seeing peoplecome right out of college and
go straight to a hundred K, ahundred miler, and it's not even
their fault.
Like they're they're beingincentivized by these brands to

(01:06:53):
do that.
Like if all the brand caresabout is top 10 at Western,
you're going to force youngathletes into a hundred miles
that's what's going to happen.
And like it's a shame becausethey could be crushing Golden
Trail.
They could be crushing 50Ks.
You know they could make theshort trail 40K team Like, and
so I think it's wasted talent,you know it's so, but I also do

(01:07:18):
think it's better than it was 10years ago.
Like there's, you know, and andpartly like I think you know,
to be clear, james, like yourpod is helping with that, um
because?
And the sub hub as well, likehaving things focused
specifically on shorter trailrunning, or mountain running as
it's called in Europe and as itshould be called in the U S um

(01:07:38):
you know, yeah, it's, uh, it's.
It's good to see more eyes onthat part of the sport.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Yeah, I think that's a big opportunity.
Man is like where we cancontinue to um just get more
eyes on this section of thesport, if you will.
Just because listen, man, likethere was one thing about like
it drove me nuts like a whenthey put their stuff out there
about I started so much shit.
Um, by accident, I wasn'treally trying to.
They like put like theirfavorites out, their favorite

(01:08:08):
picks for the ascent, and I waslike, dude, where the fuck is
joe gray?
Like you're not gonna have joegray on your favorites?
Like what is?
What are we doing here?
Like, are you kidding me?
Yeah, let's somebody, somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point of, or the Joe gray
point always has to be broughtup in these, in the discussion
of of the ultra bias, because Ithink he's suffered from that
bias and I don't know if hefeels this way, but I think he
suffered from it significantlyand but it's also that he's so

(01:08:41):
consistently good.
You know, he's just alwaysthere and so people just expect
that.
But if you take any one ofthose performances, I mean he
was what is he?
41, 42.
I think he's 41.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Yeah 41.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
He was second in that ascent.
That's 41.
Yeah, 41.
He was second in that ascent.
That's incredible.
Like if he, if that was justhis first time showing up and
doing that, that would have beena huge story.
But it's Joe gray.
So they're like oh well, youknow, that's Joe gray, that's
what he does and it's like hedoes not.
He gets so little credit andit's such a shame.
Like he's a huge advocate fordiversity in the sport first of

(01:09:15):
all.
Like he's a huge advocate fordiversity in the sport first of
all, which is awesome.
It's amazing for him to, youknow, be giving that sort of get
it, giving that perspective onthe sport.
And also I love that he'salways like I'm only going to
race if there's prize money.
Like that's awesome.
I mean it's he's a professional, he's making money.
He needs to make money.
If you're not going to offerhim, if yeah, that's what he

(01:09:42):
always says and that's a greatpoint.
Like he's not messing aroundhere.
He he acts like a track runnerin trail, as he should, because
he's at that level and there's areason he's made every world's
team since 2008 without evendoing a resume spot.
Like he is the goat, if youtalk about goats and trail
running and you mentioned jimbefore you mentioned joe.
I'm going to disagree with you.
Like Jim, joe, joe gray comesbefore Jim.
I'm sorry, like and I would,maybe Jim agrees, but either way

(01:10:04):
, um, yeah, there's, it'sbecause he has stayed in those
shorter races and he's provinglike and I think Max King proves
this as well Like you can, youcan make that your career now,
like and and well, and maybe 10years ago that wasn't the case,
but but you can.
You don't have to move up toultra.

(01:10:25):
You can stay in the short trailand continue crushing all the
way into your forties.
Andy Wacker's starting to dothat now.
Like competing, I mean, andycreates his own competition,
basically with the trail team,um, which is a whole different,
interesting topic, I think.
But but yeah, it's um, you know, I I don't think.
Going back to your free trailpoint, I don't think.

(01:10:48):
I think dylan is is celebratingdiversity in a in a good way.
I think maybe five years ago Iwould agree he did focus too
much on ultras, but I think he'swell, in some ways it's
impossible to ignore now.
I mean right, like with, withguys moving up the way they are
and crushing in in ultra, havinghad um short mountain running

(01:11:11):
careers um, the you can't evenignore it.
And so I think, um, yeah, Ithink their bias is is becoming
less and less, and I think hedoes a good job of celebrating
our diversity in trail runningand he does sort of have to talk
about everything, um, becausehe has these all more specific

(01:11:31):
media groups now, but like, but,yeah, um, and also that is his
background, like that's hisbread and butter.
I mean, you know that hard rockperformance he had, uh, I
forget what year like oh amazingdude 2021, something like that
it was.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Yeah, I think it was one or two.
It was right after COVID, so itmust've been one.
Oh my God, chasing for a swan.
Yeah, dude, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
But so yeah, but he was an ultra specific guy, um,
and, and did that very well fora decade and, uh, and that's
what he knows as an athlete.
But I think he's also a totalsuper fan, like he definitely
gets.
He knows the names, he getsinto it, you know, um.
So so yeah, I and I think insome ways he follows the trends
and that sort of is like, if thetrends on ultra, then you know

(01:12:20):
you focus on ultra, but but noone he can ignore the Western
States week.
It's just impossible.
It's it's.
They just shove it down yourthroat and it's um, it's.
I just feel like I'd rather seethat field compete in, like Lava
Redo or something interesting,not not the Western States

(01:12:40):
course, even though, again, I'mnot saying I don't respect the
history around it.
It's cool that it's the firsthundred miler in the world.
It's amazing and that it usedto be a horse race, and you know
, I'm not saying I knoweverything about that race, but
the history is awesome.
I think the way it's focused onnow is a little bit much, but

(01:13:01):
yeah no, I think it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
One thing I will say is the way that we fix this dude
and I'm not that this will everhappen, but we just need, like
the athletes as a whole, we justit should just be a different
championship course every year,like a different like, or maybe
like one of three, right Like.
One year is UTMB, one year isLa Verado, one year is this, one
year is that, and they just, oryou know, la Reunion or the

(01:13:25):
Grand Raid or whatever.
Oh, yeah.
That would be a sweet one,right, because?
it's super hot, Like different,you know, and I think they all
you know, have a degree oftechnicality to them.
Obviously, utmb is a little bitless of an extent to like, you
know, compared to like a reunionor something like that, but
that's where the championship is, and then the athletes show up
there and kind of throw down, asopposed to it always being one
place or one thing.

(01:13:45):
Yeah, I agree, dude, and like.
The one thing I'll end on thisone when it comes to bashing
media is it's like and I loveFinn, like Finn's a friend of
mine and like I, I like.
It's like how many, because I'mguilty of this too with
pre-race interviews.
I'm just starting to get intodoing more of them but it's like
how many different mediaoutlets have to have the same
person on twice to like talkabout the same fucking thing

(01:14:07):
before western stays, and it'slike everybody's doing the same
thing maybe communicate andsplit it up more something or do
something different.
I don't know, like I don't, butthat's why you know I don't even
I follow it.
I'm like aware of it, but youknow, as far as like getting in
there and like the nitty gritty,it's like man, we need
something different.
So I don't know.
I got to ask you this what'swhat's next for you this summer?

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
So I'm doing a few of these Cirque races.
I'll do snowbird, uh, next week, um, and then I'll do alieska
and then um.
The next a race is sierras andall uh, going back there I have
it's just a man afterexperiencing it last year and
feeling like I had a good racebut didn't totally nail it, I

(01:14:51):
definitely want to try to goback and kind of nail it a bit
more, um, I mean, I mean alwaysa fun excuse to go to
Switzerland again and the Alpsand um, and get cut my teeth
with the euros once more.
Um, and then um, yeah, and thenwe'll see about.
I'll find out pretty soon here.

(01:15:11):
I'm hopeful for a world's bid,um, if that's the case, that'll
be the end of September.
Um, and then that's.
If that's, if I do end up onthat team, then that'll sort of
be my last major race, I think.
Um, and then sort of, yeah,start gearing back up for schema
in the winter.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
So nice man, I'm excited to see you at series and
all I think that'll be.
You know now that you've racedit once or twice before already
you said Just last year, yeah,just last year.
All right, so you know thecourse.
Like such a fast, fun race,like obviously that's kind of
more or less the sub ultra, likemountain running, like
championship in a lot of ways inits own right more competitive

(01:15:59):
trail race period.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Actually, um, I think it's, it's been there and it's
just what's what it really iscool that it's the same every
year and that you can compareyour times directly to all these
greats that have run it.
I mean, I got to shakekillian's hand after he got the
record last year, like I willnever forget that moment.
You know that was so cool tolike be in the same race.
I mean, not like it wasactually.
You know, he was just like umin his own race.

(01:16:20):
Uh, or those, those, thosefront guys were but uh, but just
being on the start line withwith him is is amazing and uh,
um, I think it's a cool mix.
It's.
It is actually tech.
There's some technical aspectto it.
It's not.
It's not totally smooth as I,as I originally heard, but it's.
Yeah, it's that crazy.
It's like combining.

(01:16:43):
I think when you train forSierra's and all and you and you
race it.
Well, you, you have to becomevery good at transitioning from
super steep, like hard you knowbig watt climbing to just
gunning it on flat terrain, andthat that skill is will take you
very far in trail running, like, if you can, if you can climb

(01:17:05):
hard and then also run hard onflat terrain or rolling terrain.
Um, it, yeah it, it serves youvery well.
So, you know, I mean you'veprobably, you know, obviously,
the the Killian, um, you know,training regime, for that is
definitely something I like.
I I try to do a couple ofworkouts where I'm doing a one

(01:17:27):
or two hard climbs mixed in withsome flat tempo effort, um, on
on super flat terrain.
Um, luckily there's plenty ofareas to do that in around
leadville and um, and I thinkit's, yeah, almost like in some
ways, like it's an a race.
But I also almost wanted to dothis because it's just so good
for my training to focus on arace like that.

(01:17:49):
So, um, nice yeah, I'm psychedfor that dude.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
so let me ask you this if you, uh, if worlds
becomes a thing for you itsounds like it very I mean, it's
very possible, like I'd saymore likely than not would you
stay out there after series andall, or would you come back to
America and then go back outagain?

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
I'd come back, I'd make Sears and all a quick one,
cause then I'll have still overa month um back here before, or
maybe a little under like threeweeks.
But but, yeah, man, um, youknow, I I've been traveling a
lot more of the last few summers, um, with golden trail and then
, um, just it seems to justcontinue.

(01:18:26):
Um, every time I get back toLeadville I want to stay.
I don't want to go again, Idon't want to leave again and be
living in the mountains inColorado.
You probably kind of get this.
Just like I want to takeadvantage in our short summer
season.
I mean, I, I love the snow,don't get me wrong, but the ease
of access in the mountains inthe summer is so fleeting, it's

(01:18:48):
so, you know.
I was talking to Anton Krupickain Italy about this.
Like you, you're gone for justeven a couple of days and you're
just it's so hard to not thinkabout like, oh man, I'm missing
out.
Like I want to get back and dothis, this and this and all
these things.
So, so I always have thatfeeling.
But yeah, at this point, um,I'm not trying to complain

(01:19:09):
either.
It's just sort of a different,um, something very special.
Definitely, yeah, it's nice tomiss, miss home.
It means I'm in a good place,and then, um, it's definitely
just a new routine for me withall this international travel.
I'm I'm still um adjusting toit, so yeah, not for sure, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
I mean, I get you, man, I've been away, for I and
it's like man, I'm itching.
I cannot wait to get back toColorado.
It's not that I don't lovebeing out here, it's amazing.
But that said, there's justsomething very special about the
high mountains.
I mean being in the springs.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
geez, the access is awesome.
It's such an amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Yeah, man, let me ask you this.
So one more question for youbefore I let you go being in
Vermont or growing up in Vermont, or like living growing up in
Vermont, like do you have any,like anything you want to go
back out Like maybe just likenail a Prezi traverse I know we
were kind of just talking aboutthat a little bit before or like
any, any FKTs or anything bigyou want to come to do out?

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
here.
Uh, great question, there'sdefinitely FKTs I want to go
after around here.
I haven't, like seriously, uh,made a list or anything like
that yet.
But yeah, uh, made a list oranything like that yet.
But yeah, having done theprezzy, now easy, uh, it was,
man, I respect the hell out ofjack kunzel's time now.
Oh, my goodness, that 338 is.

(01:20:25):
That is a crazy route to do thatkind of time on, mainly because
it's just so technical, likethe, the trail itself.
I mean there's parts that aremore runnable but like pretty
sustained technicality the wholetime, and to run that fast you
have to be like full stridingmost of it, which, I'm not going
to lie, I don't know.

(01:20:46):
I think I would have to be outhere for at least a handful of
weeks and really dial in my likeNew England technical running.
I think someone like Dan Kurtzknows exactly what I'm talking
about.
Like it's just a differentthing and you need you need time
to get used to it.
Um, pemi loop is another one.

(01:21:06):
I think that might be more ofmy wheelhouse.
Well, both Prezi and Pemi loop,but Pemi maybe just cause it's
longer.
Um, might, might suit me alittle better, being slightly
slower these days.
Um, or not, as not as quick asI was in my golden trail years,
but, um, and then there'sactually.
So, uh, my family goes out andvisits, uh, this island out in

(01:21:26):
Penobscot Bay in Maine.
Um, and it's not an FKT, butit's sort of it's in the Acadia
Acadia national park area and ifyou, if anyone's familiar with
it, there's sort of it's in theacadia acadia national park area
.
Yeah, and if you, if anyone'sfamiliar with it, there's a
super, super rugged coastlinesthat are like, uh, granite, um,
and just like very steep andlike, um, some of it's like

(01:21:49):
hundred foot granite cliffs, youknow, and uh, that's what rings
this island that I've beengoing out to since I was a kid
and I've always I've done a lotof sections of coastline, um,
running and sort of it was morerock hopping but and there's
great trails that I that you canconnect to the coast, but I've,
I've, I've always wanted to dolike the full loop around the

(01:22:11):
entire Island just on the rocks,and uh, I think it would be
like, I mean the there's a roadaround the island that's like 13
miles, but I think the coastroute would be like close to a
hundred miler, like it's, soit's so rugged and like so
there's some things like that.
It's more just like projectbased stuff.
And then I would love to dolike kismet cliff, um some of

(01:22:34):
the Tom Hooper races.
I mean he does a great job.
I would love to do um what'sthat called Vermont, not the
Vermont 50, um rat the ragged.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Oh, yeah, ragged 75.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
That'd be a cool one eventually.
And uh, yeah, I mean I, it'snot hard to like.
I mean Tom's constantly tryingto get me to to do his races and
uh, it's going to happen one ofthese years, tom don't worry.
But I, uh, yeah, being aWestern boy at the moment, it's,
it's a little tricky.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
So fair enough.
Fair enough, I mean, dude I was, I was really blown away out
here, like I was like damn, likeI could do.
I mean I kind of did this yearbut like I would like to do a
whole season like just eastcoast stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
you can kind of be fun you know I think you have a
great call.
Yeah, I mean like now.
I mean what washington's a wildrace like now they have like a
cog vk, like they've got likeyes, stuff, race the cog.
That's another one on the list.
Yeah, well, then you know youget to line up with the goat.
So it's true, joe always comesback.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
yeah well, dude.
No, I want to say thank you somuch, man, for coming on.
I hope this is the first ofmany conversations.
It's always fun getting yourperspective and I just
appreciate learning more aboutyou and about your takes on the
sport and you know.
Thanks for being open aboutyour races as well.
Like amazing to follow alongand wishing you the best of luck
in the rest of your season.
Thanks a lot, james, it was apleasure.
Yeah, buddy, oh man, what agreat episode.

(01:23:55):
I want to thank Noah so muchfor coming on the pod.
I really appreciate his time and, uh, yeah, looking forward to
seeing Noah at a race later thissummer.
Uh, guys, before you get going,you can find a Noah on
Instagram.
You can give him a follow at.
Noah will uh handle is N O W aW I L L?
Um.
Give him a follow, send him aDM, let him know what you guys
thought about the episode.
I'm sure he would appreciateyour kind words, um, and
definitely send himcongratulations on just you know

(01:24:16):
, some of the great, amazingthings he's been doing on the
racing course this the season sofar.
Um, yeah, if you guys enjoyedthis episode, you can give us a
five-star rating and review onApple, spotify, youtube or
wherever you consume yourpodcasts.
That would be amazing and, uh,guys, hope you enjoy this one.
Sorry about the long layoff.
I've been on vacation in thegreat North, uh, playing in the
mountains of Vermont and NewHampshire and Maine, and I am

(01:24:38):
coming back, uh, now.
So we are, we're back and gotsome fun stuff loaded for you
for the next few weeks, um, andthe rest of the summer.
So I hope you guys enjoyed it.
Thank you so much.
Listen up, guys.
The steep stuff podcast isbrought to you by ultimate
direction, usa guys.
I am so excited.
Is brought to you by UltimateDirection USA Guys.

(01:24:59):
I am so excited.
Ud just dropped their newRaceVest 6L and UltraVest 12L in
two beautiful aesthetic colors.
You guys got to check these newvests out.
They're dynamic in ways likethat you just have never seen
from an Ultimate Direction vestVery stretchy, lots of storage,
beautiful aesthetic colorwayscoming into, coming to you in a
new, like a white and blue andan onyx and green just

(01:25:21):
absolutely beautiful vests.
I think these ones are justlike some of the best products
we've ever dropped and I'm soexcited for you guys to try them
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Hop on ultimate directioncomand use code steep stuff pod
Again.
That's steep stuff pod for 25%off your new vest.
I mean, they're alreadyaffordably priced, but 25% off
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(01:25:43):
So hop on ultimate directioncom, get yourself a new vest, a
pack or any hydration solutionand let me know what you guys
think.
Thank you.

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#105 - Noah Williams

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#105 - Noah Williams