#106 - Steve White

Send us a text

Steve White brings a refreshing perspective to mountain sports as both the West Coast Race Director for the Cirque Series and an accomplished athlete in his own right. Through our conversation, Steve offers a glimpse behind the curtain of what it takes to create memorable race experiences while maintaining his personal connection to mountains and movement.

What sets Steve apart is his approach to adventure – less concerned with structure or external validation and more focused on inspiration and meaningful experiences. He describes finding running in his twenties not as a competitive pursuit but as a way to move his body and connect with nature. This philosophy has carried through to his current approach of pursuing what excites him rather than adhering to rigid training plans.

The highlight of our conversation revolves around an extraordinary human-powered adventure Steve undertook last summer. Linking three significant peaks – Gannet Peak, Granite Peak, and the Grand Teton – entirely by bike and foot, this journey exemplified the self-sufficient spirit he admires in mountain runners like Anton Krupicka and Kyle Richardson. Along the way, Steve experienced a rare face-to-face encounter with a wolverine, one of only three documented in the Wind River Range at that time – a moment of pure wilderness connection that transcended athletic achievement.

Throughout our discussion, Steve champions what he calls the "quiet crushers" – those who accomplish incredible feats without broadcasting them. In a social media age where adventures are often performed for an audience, his celebration of personal experience over external validation offers a compelling counterbalance to outdoor culture's sometimes relentless self-promotion.

Whether you're looking to understand the inner workings of mountain race directing, seeking inspiration for your next human-powered adventure, or simply wanting to reconnect with the pure joy of moving through mountains, Steve's story reminds us why we venture into wild places – not for recognition, but for the depth of experience and connection they provide.

Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello

Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod

Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com! 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys an episode today with noneother than Mr Steve White Steve
and I.
I first got to meet Steve doingthe Killington course preview
ahead of the Cirque Series raceand Steve left a lasting
impression on me and he'ssomeone I was definitely excited

(00:20):
to have a conversation with onthe podcast.
He just brings a lot to thesport.
For those of you who have everraced a Cirque series race over
the last few years, it's Stevehas played varying roles in
bringing these races to life.
This year he has a new job ofbeing the West Coast race
director.
So if you race Snowbird theSnowbird Cirque series last week

(00:41):
, you would have interacted withSteve as he was the race
director of that race.
On top of that, steve hasplayed a pivotal role in these
races for the last few years andhe's an amazing athlete in his
own right.
He's had some great finishes,both at Cirque Series Killinton
and Cirque Series Canon just afew weeks prior, and he's also

(01:04):
an avid bike packer and justdoes what inspires him in the
mountains.
He's a very inspiring person.
Like I said, definitely someoneI was really excited to have a
conversation with, as he bringsa unique and refreshing
perspective to the, to the sportin its own right.
One of the things we do getinto that I really enjoyed was
this amazing bike packingadventure that he did linking up

(01:24):
Gannett Granite and the GrandTeton last year, which was a fun
conversation to talk about.
So, yeah, I hope you guys enjoythis one.
It is a personal favorite ofmine.
Like I said, steve is animportant person in our sport
and someone behind the scenesthat makes a lot of things
happen, so it's amazing to gethis perspective and hear his
story.

(01:44):
So, without further ado, mrSteve White, it's time.

(02:05):
Ladies and gentlemen, we arelive.

(02:53):
Steve White.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, buddy?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Good, super good.
Thanks for having me, james ohdude, it's my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
I had a great conversation with you running
around the Killington course theday before Cirque Series.
Killington and after that, youknow, kind of left a lasting
impression on me and I was likeman, we got to get Steve on the
pod, so happy to have a pod andhappy to have a chat with you,
dude.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, absolutely Happy to be here.
How's your day going so far?
How's your?
How's your day going so far?
Pretty good, yeah.
So woke up, got a nice little,uh, did an actual time trial and
uh, some on a on a localmountain over here, which was a
blast.
And then, uh, just off to theoffice for a solid day of work.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
So very nice, very nice.
Um, all right, let's get intoit.
Let's maybe, maybe for theaudience that might not be
familiar with Steve White like,maybe give a background, we can
talk.
You have a cool role right, so,like you, you obviously work
with the Cirque series, butyou're also an athlete, and a
respectable athlete in your ownright.
Maybe we could talk about boththose things, talk about your
involvement with the Cirqueseries, and then we can get into

(04:01):
your background as an athleteas well.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah for sure.
So I grew up here in Salt Lake.
That's where I currently reside.
I've moved around a little bitsince growing up here.
I spent my college years inLogan, which is just a stone's
throw away from here in northernUtah.
But yeah, I actually don't havea super storied or historic

(04:27):
background with running.
I kind of found it in my early20s after growing up playing
traditional team sports soccer,uh but was craving something to
do, uh, to push my body, uh,maybe not necessarily in a hard
way, but just to get out andmove.
So, anyways, I came to runningthrough that way.

(04:51):
But currently I'm working as therace director for Cirque Series
.
I've been working with CirqueSeries for just a little over a
year now.
Last year was my first fullseason with them.
My role has changed a littlebit since last year a little
more involved this year, alittle more involved this year,
currently working as the uh racedirector for our West coast
series.
Um, so we have another racedirector.

(05:14):
Tom Hooper, who I'm sure mostpeople are familiar with, is, uh
, our race director for the Eastcoast and, uh, lame.
I'm just kidding, yeah, lame guyand uh lame, I'm just kidding,
yeah, lame guy, yeah, he, he's,uh, he's well known uh for
better, for worse, I guess.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Right, usually for worse.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Shout out tom, we love you, tom yeah, but anyways,
yeah, that's a little bit aboutme.
Um, I'm stoked to be involvedwith Cirque Series.
It's been a blast ever since Istarted working with them and I
feel like I've kind of stumbledmy way into the position that I
am in now.
Try to be involved in community, whether that's trail running,

(06:04):
mountain running, whatever.
Um, but, yeah, super gratefulto be here at this point.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So no, I love it, man , I love it.
Let's, we can get into it now.
So, like I said, like runningsome of the races obviously
we're West coast race director.
If you will Can, maybe let'stalk about it.
I think I need to understandthis just better.
You know, I don't think a lotof the audience or people
understand like outside, likewhat it's like to put on a race
and be able to organize some ofthese races across the country.

(06:31):
Especially now a Cirque seriesis one of the fastest growing
and is, in my opinion, the bestseries in the country, if not
the world.
Like, what does it like to puton some of these races?
Like, how has that kind ofchanged for you as you start to
understand, like, how thesethings work?

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I mean, first of all, thank you.
Uh, we're, we're proud of theproduct that we have.
Um, cirque series is is prettyincredible.
Uh, what is it like?
Uh hectic, uh busy.

(07:05):
Um, it requires a lot oforganization, a lot of
forethought, a lot of planning.
I mean, yeah, at this stage wehave a lot of races that are
established and we've been doingthem for more than 10 years.
This is our 10-year anniversaryfor several of our events
Snowbird, alta but that doesn'tmean that there's not a lot of
planning still.
But, uh, that doesn't mean thatthere's not a lot of planning

(07:28):
still.
Um, planning begins as soon asthe race ends, uh, conducting a
thorough debrief to make sure wehave notes for next season.
How does that improve?
Um, but, uh, I mean, it's ablast, like I.
So we just did snowbird thispast weekend and, uh, to be
honest, I got emotional.
I mean, this is like this wasmy first race and in this role
as race director, um, and uh,yeah, I got emotional, like

(07:52):
being there, seeing my friendsuh across the finish line, um
having like the experience,being able to experience, um
with them, the joy of the eventand knowing that, like all of
the hard work that I put in.
That's it's not necessarilyvisible, and not that I care
that it's visible and I don'tcare at all but like it's nice,

(08:15):
it's so nice just to see peoplehappy and enjoying themselves
and uh, and feeling fulfilled asthey cross the finish line.
Uh, whether that's people inthe front of the pack, mid pack
or or back of the pack, it's,it's pretty special.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
It's do I mean?
I honestly couldn't think of acooler job, in my opinion, Like
I don't know like.
I don't know.
Obviously, we both love themountains and just like the
ability to put on an event likethat, and that's the thing.
Like I got a chance to raceKillington a few weeks back with
you and dude I there's justsomething so special about the
racing series Like it's not,it's just different from the
sport, like we've all racedother other races outside of the

(08:52):
sport or outside of like Cirque, but it's.
It's something special aboutjust the atmosphere.
The pressure is not reallythere, it's fun, it's.
It's a relaxed atmosphere,everybody has a good time and
you're left fulfilled, havingjust challenged yourself on a
very difficult course.
Like there's no easy courses,they're all, they're all,

(09:12):
they're all kick your ass, um.
So yeah, I just got to give youguys your your kudos for that,
um that's the cool thing, I feellike.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I mean, it doesn't really matter what type of
athlete athlete you, it's goingto be challenging, whether your
goal is to run wicked fast orjust to finish the damn thing,
it's going to be hard.
So I think that's pretty cool,in my opinion, and that's I mean
, that's not necessarily uniqueto Cirque series.
I think you can get that in alot of other races, but I think

(09:41):
it's awesome.
I think it's really cool.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Let me ask you this what do you think the secret?
I mean, obviously, like I'vehad Julian on the pod before and
he's an amazing person to chatwith, he's an amazing human.
But what would you, what do youthink?
Like now, working for theorganization and being on the
inside, like there's a secretsauce there, like something's
working really well and I thinkit really resonates, because you
guys obviously always have, youknow, people sign up, people

(10:05):
are having a great time, there'sa lot of engagement on social
media.
Like what do you think thesecret sauce is for?

Speaker 2 (10:10):
like the series I think that's it.
I think it's well, I don't know.
I guess there's multiple things, but one, yeah, the engagement.
So julian has always been veryengaged with the people that
come to his races.
Um, and I think peopleappreciate that having a race
director that's involved, thatgets to know people by name,
wants to know their backstory,wants to know where they're

(10:32):
coming from, why they'reparticipating in his event, and
then just talking to them aboutthings that he can do to improve
the event, um, I think he'sdone a really good job of that.
Um, I also think our courses arepretty spectacular.
Uh, granted, they're all at skiresorts, but every ski resort
is pretty magnificent.
Um, I mean, it's pretty rad.

(10:55):
Our courses are really cool.
Um, yeah, the races that we hadon the east coast at cannon
pretty, pretty badass.
Uh, kinsman ridge that trail isjust incredibly technical,
really cool.
It almost feels like you'rerunning on a ridge but you're in
in trees.
Um, that's how I describe it atleast.

(11:16):
It's really cool.
And then everything we havehere on the west coast, which is
so drastically different thaneverything on the east coast not
to say that one's better orworse, but just spectacular
views Uh, and it'sstraightforward Just go up and
then go down.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
It's pretty rad, unless it's Killington and it's
go up and go down and go back upagain In my case die on the
grassy Hill and then come backto life.
You know it's, it's, uh, it'sgood times, good times all
around, times all around.
Yeah, what did you think ofthat?
Oh, dude, it was awesome it wasawesome.
I you know I was like it waslike a blessing and a curse,
like I was so stoked to haveknown, like, obviously, coming

(11:52):
back from an injury, I was likeI'm gonna be very smart about
this race.
I'm not gonna blow up right andsure as shit at the 10k mark, I
absolutely imploded and I waslike at one point, dude, I went
to the second aid station tryingto quit.
I was, and they like wouldn'tlet me, they're like dude no
just finish and I was like okayokay, I'll finish and I'm on,
you know, the last climb, thelast grassy 40.

(12:14):
Yeah, yeah, evergreen needles uh, yeah, I'm like laying on it,
like trying to like straightenmy legs from cramping and like
these kind humans are likehanding me gels, like as they
pass by dead corpse, like it was.
It was funny, dude, it was agood time.
And then obviously, once it'sover, then you know it's
exciting and we all have beersand enjoy it and chat about the
experience and, yeah, it's justa great time.

(12:35):
Man, everybody, nobody's therehaving a bad day, everybody's
there having having the blast.
And yeah, how about that bear?
That bear was pretty sweethanging out pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, I know it's wild.
Both at canon and killington wehad multiple bear bear
encounters.
At killington I think we sawthree bears, a bunch of cubs.
Same thing in canon pretty wild, that's pretty sweet.
Yeah, it's like no, sorry whatare you saying?
Oh, I was just gonna say wedon't come across bears very
often here in the wasatch.
Uh, I've actually only seen onebear and it was this year and I

(13:06):
was on my bike, um, so I guessit's not very often.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah it's funny, dude , you would think like the east
coast, like I don't know.
You would like peoplesynonymize it with um, you know,
not being as wild or not being,or just being different, right,
and you know west coastmountain runners go out there
and it's a completely differentball game.
Like sure, like we don't havealtitude out there, but the
humidity, the bugs, it's a wholedifferent, like the temperature
zones, like, I think, our racelike when we raised Killington,

(13:34):
it was like in the sixties butlike 100% humidity within the
first two miles.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Oh yeah, gotten pretty good, so I was like all
right, like it's.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
It's a different game , like just a completely
different uh situation, so I'mglad, I'm glad you guys expanded
out there, which is pretty,pretty sweet I guess you sorry.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh, I was gonna ask you, had you run out there much
beforehand?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
like no no, just uh well, other than like came out a
couple weeks before obviouslyto uh just hang out in the
northeast with family, um, and Igot to play a little bit in the
cat skills, so I was like, allright, I'll use that as a
stimulus to.
I mean before that I hadn'treally ran, like I only ran like
two weeks leading up to therace but like, just got to
explore the cat skills, do acouple of their I forget like

(14:16):
4,000 foot peaks, something likethat, maybe 3000.
I can't remember.
But like they have, um, somelike lower, lesser peaks down
there that were kind of fun,like Hunter mountain, which is a
good ski resort, and stuff likethat.
And I was kind of using that asa stimulus to like figure out
Killington and just start to getthe legs ready.
And they were ready for like 10K.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
And then I thought dude, I gotta say I think the
East coast is uhunderappreciated.
I I was blown away and I I meanI was fortunate enough to stay
a couple of days after our ourraces and do a little bit of
running in the whites Um, buttruly incredible.

(14:57):
I mean like having thoughts ofwhat do I do so that I can spend
a month or two every year outhere type of incredible it's.
It's really cool.
I thought the same thing.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Man, I've been Googling races and stuff, like
how do I figure out, like how tospend Cause, like that's the
thing.
Like I I'd love to just go anddo Canon and then hang out until
Killington and yeah, kind ofplay that game for a little bit
and just see what it's all about, because the whites blew me
away, like we went up going tothe whites after um, because
it's not that far, it's only afew hours away, and yeah I
kicked myself for not going tofranconia or like that area and

(15:32):
running the canon course,because I was like, ah, that I
would love to see that beforenext year because that looks
pretty dope, so might go outearly and go play on that one
and see what that's all aboutahead of uh, ahead of time, but
yeah, different, but yeahdifferent kind of technical,
just very difficult.
You know, I, I, I kind ofquestioned my choice in the
shoes, like I was like man,maybe I should have brought my
mutants with me instead of likerunning with the Pregeo pros.
I was like I should have takenyour advice on that.

(15:54):
I was like damn.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of that shoe.
Both shoes, though, they'regreat.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
They're both great, so very capable let me ask you
this I want to get into justlike pre-race planning and stuff
like that.
So after the race is over, likedo you guys automatically like
start the permitting process forthe following year?
Like I'm just wondering, likebecause ski resorts are their
own kind of beast.
Right it's a national forestand then there's usually
wilderness areas outside of that.
You guys do such a good job oflike figuring out the most, like

(16:24):
the, the best and prettiestareas, if you will, for the ski
roads and for just kind ofcreating the course.
And then there's always thislike amazing I don't want to say
traverse, but you're alwaysable to get off the ski road,
get onto the peak and then getback on and like the way you
guys are playing, these coursesare just so well done.
Is that difficult to do withthe permitting process?

(16:45):
Like, how does that work?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah it it is.
Um, I actually haven't beensuper involved in the permitting
process, um, until recently.
It is complicated, but, withthat being said, for a lot of

(17:11):
these resorts we're able toobtain more than a single year
permit.
For some of the events that wehave, we have a five-year permit
, which means, kind of like, youget it done and then you don't
have to really think about itfor another five years and then
revisit it with the forestservice.
I mean, you're still operatingwith the forest service, uh,

(17:31):
despite it being within a skiresort.
I mean, most of these skiresorts are are actually on
public land.
Um, so, yeah, you, there iscommunication, but Julian is the
one who who does a lot of thatwork.
I haven't been terriblyinvolved, he's he's included me
on some of the discussion more,just so I'm aware, um, but I,

(17:53):
that's something that I'm hopingto get involved with, though,
in the future, um, just becauseI think it's an important
component of the job.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
So yeah, no super interesting.
Sorry, I just I'm so curious,how does this work, how does
that work?
And then, like on a race day,right, like snowbird just
happened, like what do you, whatdo you do?
Like, what are you doing?
Are you, like you know,checking in with personnel and
volunteers?
Like, obviously, like wait,what does the race directors
role?
Like on race day.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
So I have a team who works with me and an incredible
team, I'll say and most of theday I'm just checking in with
them and making sure that someof the assignments that they
have are are being completed,checking in to see if they need
help, additional help, makingsure that we have volunteers
where we need them to be, andthen also just making sure the

(18:46):
vendor village is is all puttogether, uh, but I mean like,
yeah, we get there super earlyon race morning.
Um, we have our vendors show uppretty early so that by the
time racers are there, we werekind of rocking and rolling, um,
but yeah, just checking runnersin, uh, but as the race is
rolling, it's kind of like justbeing on call, in a way, uh,

(19:10):
putting out fires as they asthey happen whether those are
safety things that happen, oncourse, um, just having the
ability to communicate to theright people.
My, we have our safetycoordinator who who does most of
that communication, but in theevent of an accident, it's
possible that I would have somelevel of involvement in

(19:33):
something like that, but I don'tknow.
Yeah, it's just a lot of likelittle things.
Talk about what my job is.
It's like when I describe it, Ifeel like it sounds silly, just
because there's not like,there's not like any any big
thing that I do.
It's just like.
I mean, my to-do list is like50, 60, 70 items long, so it's

(19:56):
just a ton of little things thatI need to make sure happen, and
if any of them don't happen,then it's noticeable.
Okay, it makes sense.
So I just try to make sure thatall those things get done, but
regardless, like I said, sorryno, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
I was just gonna say it was make a joke.
It just sounds like you'redoing more than top hooper, so
you're good there.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
It doesn't matter yeah, no, tom is he.
He does it such a good job.
I I really respect tom.
Um, it was awesome to be ableto go and uh to, to have work
with him for those east coastraces and just see.
You know kind of what hismentality is as a race director
and um, he's incrediblyefficient.

(20:35):
He's able to do a lot with verylittle uh, something that I
really admire.
Um, I mean, yeah, it's crazy ofall my jokes now.
So well, yeah, well deserved.
I'd say he's gonna listen tothis and be like man.
They're just throwing shade thewhole time oh, 100, 100, dude.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
You know what I get shit from him.
So I have to dish it back atsome point in time.
So it's all, it's all good.
Uh, I can't, I can't sing hispraises enough that I love tom.
Uh, well, dude, thanks foropening up about that.
I know it's difficult to tryand sometimes get those things
out so, out of pure curiosity,just for love of the series and
love of the sport, it's justalways interesting to me to
learn how these roles work andwhat goes into making the day

(21:20):
such a memorable one for allthese athletes that are
participating.
So I appreciate that.
I want to talk about you as anathlete man.
I was really impressed.
Like you know, you've had somegreat finishes, obviously, both
at Killington and at Canon.
Like you're, you're a prettyaccomplished athlete in your own
right.
I knew you um, you know,explore the Wasatch on bike as
well.
I was trying to figure out somestuff about you because there's
not a lot out there.

(21:40):
So you're, you're a man ofmystery.
So maybe talk about, like yourpursuits and like what you're
into, like what you like to doas far as in the mountains.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah for sure.
Well, thank you.
I I appreciate that.
I feel like I have a prettyfair bit of imposter syndrome.
I don't feel like I'm anythingspecial and as I talk to my
friends like I, I don't feellike I'm at an elite level in my
running.
I just feel like I'm an amateurif that, and maybe I compare

(22:10):
myself to others too much, but Ijust see, like, what people at
the top end of the sport arecapable of doing and I feel like
I'm nowhere near.
But, with that being said, likethat's not really what.
What matters to me, I guess.
I mean, I do want to be fastand I want to like develop as an
athlete and and be able to dothings that are inspiring to me,

(22:31):
but that's not really thereason why I came into this
sport to begin with.
Um, I just I just like to havefun.
I don't really do anystructured training.
Um, it's all just kind of likeyou know, just from, just from
messing around dude, I mean likeI, I just like wake up and like

(22:54):
if there's a certain thing thatI feel inspired to go run, then
I'm going to go hit it.
Or I don't know, I mean, maybeat the end of the week there's
something that I'm inspired todo, so I'll structure my week
around being able to likeactually have energy for that
come the end of the week.
But I don't know, I mean, atthis point in time I feel like
I'm inspired by, um, bytechnical mountains.

(23:18):
Uh, I don't feel like I'm I'mnot an alpinist, I'm not a
mountaineer, um, but I do reallyenjoy scrambling um and uh,
combining like that disciplinewith with running and just
moving efficiently in themountains, um, also like
incredibly stoked on thesehuman-powered efforts and uh,

(23:42):
trying to do stuff from the door, um, as much as possible.
I don't feel like I've had thebandwidth this summer to to be
able to get out and do that asmuch, but last summer my gosh
was like probably the coolestsummer I I've ever had.
Uh, this is like the firstsummer that I I feel like I've
been totally healthy as well andI think, introducing the bike

(24:03):
into training or just the thingsthat I was doing maybe not
necessarily training, but thethings I was doing maybe
facilitated that experience alittle bit more to be able to
stay healthy.
I've looked up to people likeAnton and Kyle, richardson and
Boulder and the things that theydo, and and I'm I'm very
inspired by those kinds ofthings and want to pursue things

(24:26):
that are similar, but withmaybe my own little twist.
I love that.
Yeah, I love mountains, I loveplaying in mountains, I love
being in the mountains withfriends, and I love the way that
mountains lead to vulnerability.
I feel like they force you tobe humble, but in a very good

(24:53):
way, and when you're with otherpeople, that humility leads to
like the development ofrelationships that I just don't
feel like I've been able to doanywhere else, um.
So I mean, really that's why Ilike it.
It's, it's fun for me to move.
I love moving in mountains, Ilove moving, being able to move
somewhat efficiently, um, and Ilove spending time with people

(25:14):
that I care about.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
So talk about how, like the Wasatch has helped your
development.
Like it's obviously such anamazing training grounds, like
maybe talk about that, like thewasatch has helped your
development, like it's obviouslysuch an amazing training ground
.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Like maybe talk about that a little bit.
Yeah, for sure, um, thisconversation is kind of
interesting actually because I,like I mentioned at the
beginning, I I actually lived inlogan, uh, through my early 20s
to, yeah, just a little over ayear and a half ago, um, and the
terrain is incredibly differentand most of the time that I was
living in logan, I was actuallyinjured.

(25:48):
I had some weird um nervetension injury that uh would
manifest itself as as uhachilles pain, and for the
longest time it was almost threeyears.
I'd like start ramping upvolume again and my symptoms
would come back and I'd you know, I'd get so frustrated uh and

(26:13):
uh.
Anyways, I, towards the end ofmy time in logan I I was able to
connect with some prettyincredible people, um people
that I really look up to to thisday.
Uh, like Cody Draper, the racedirector of the Bear 100.
He's somebody who, like reallyopened his arms to me, um,
because at the time I was doingall my running solo, uh, for

(26:36):
various reasons, but uh, Iwanted to find community and I
found community, um, in Cody andand some of the other people in
that area, but I feel like hewas one of the first people to
really open his arms and uh takeme under his wing, which was
incredible.
But when I moved back to SaltLake I I didn't have anybody

(26:57):
here, uh, even though I grew uphere, it was like a lot of my
friends from high school weredoing other things and uh I I
mean I like I said I'm not, likeI'm not an elite athlete and I
think, uh, I'll be honest, Ithink Salt Lake can be kind of
clicky, so I had a really hardtime like connecting with people
when I first moved here.

(27:18):
Um, but, uh, my buddy Sam, hisstory is crazy, it's really
crazy.
He was pacing a friend at Bearand I'm involved with the Bear
100.
And he recognized me.
And he recognized me from theBear, but in the Home Depot

(27:39):
parking lot, like six monthslater, he recognized me from the
bear, but in the home Depotparking lot, like six months
later, he's like yo, dude,you're that guy from the bear.
And I was like yeah, what, yeah, but what?
Anyways, like him recognizingme, we started to run together
and as a result of thatrelationship, I've been able to
connect with a lot of otherpeople here.
Um, but it took a minute, ittook a really long time.

(28:04):
I was doing like all my runningalone.
So I guess I'm like morespeaking to the community
component rather than theWasatch itself component.
But like, once, once I've beenable to like have people around
me, I feel like running here hasbeen a lot more enjoyable.
I am somebody who runs a lot bymyself, but I also really

(28:26):
appreciate this communitycomponent.
But the Wasatch dude.
This place is cool.
This place is really cool.
There's so much to do.
I feel like I really admire thepeople here in the Los Angeles
who are creative in the waysthat they train in the in like

(28:49):
the routes that they pursue,trying to do it differently,
always looking for a new way todo something that it's like
somewhat established, but havingtheir own little twist.
I think it's awesome.
I think it's really cool it'sso interesting man.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
So one of the things I found very interesting as well
is, like I know finn has beenvery vocal on on the wasatch and
and you know, just the saltlake scene as well, as it's
developed and grown over thelast few years.
Like I feel like it's one ofthose things like if you build
it, they will come and like nowthere's just so many athletes in
that area.
Just it's kind of crazy Like itrivals Boulder rivals, the

(29:25):
Springs rivals a lot of placesin the, in the, in the country.
Now, like, what do you think ofthat whole scene?
Like, have you kind of embeddedyourself with those?
Do you run with those guys, orare you more kind of do your own
thing?

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Like what's your approach on it?
Like no, I mean, if people come, they come I.
I don't really understand thementality of like being
gatekeepy, like no, keep itquiet.
Like it's a great place andthere's a reason why a lot of
people are drawn to it, um, butI also don't feel the need to be

(30:00):
outspoken about it Fair enough.
So, yeah, I don't know.
It is cool, though, to have somany crushers.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I mean, I feel like it's raised the level.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
You don't have to look far to be inspired by the
things that people are doingaround here.
But, with that being said, Ifeel like there's a lot of
people here I I still don't know, still haven't run into.
I mean, I run with a couplepeople that are definitely they
like fall into that category ofbeing crusher, but they're also

(30:38):
people that I don't think manypeople would know about I like
that dude I'm starting.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
The more I've been in the sport, the longer I'm
starting to.
I really admire and look up tothe quiet crushers, the people
that are just not sayinganything but they're getting out
and doing this crazy link-upsor these crazy things.
They don't talk about it.
It's just some of the thingsthat they do.
I don't know.
I admire that more now.
I think I appreciate that morenow than I ever have in the

(31:03):
sport, where I in the sport, Ifeel like a lot of people have a
lot of voices and a lot ofthings to say and you know,
sometimes it's just good to getaway from all that and just just
focus on the craft Right.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Oh yeah, for sure.
No, I, I, I, I agree.
I really admire the people thatdon't feel the need to be
outspoken, to share everythingthat they're doing.
I love when people sharebecause I like looking at that
kind of content, I like seeingwhat these people are doing to

(31:36):
get after it, but at the sametime, it's really cool that
there's a lot of people who justdon't feel the need to share
For sure.
I got to ask you this.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
This is an intriguing question but at the same time,
it's really cool that there's alot of people who just don't
feel the need to share.
For sure, I got to ask you this.
This is an intriguing question.
So Anton is someone I'm tryingto get on the podcast now it's
being worked on.
I've had Kyle Richardson on thepodcast before.
He's become a friend over thetime, and both guys I immensely
look up to.
One of the things that you kindof said something similar like
I, I you know influenced bythose guys, but with my own

(32:03):
little twist.
Can you, can you go into that alittle bit more?
I find that really interestingyeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
So I mean, like, from the perspective of route
development, uh, there's thingsthat anton has done that I've
tried to I don't I don't knowwhat the right word is here, but
like it's inspiring enough forme to want to do something
similar.
Maybe I don't have enough time,as he does, uh, to be able to
do exactly what he did, or or todo it maybe in a slightly

(32:33):
different style.
I don't know.
But for example, like I thinkit was three, four years ago now
, he did his sage russiansagebrush and summits project.
It was rad.
Four years ago now he did hisSagebrush and Summits project.
It was rad Linking up severalpeaks, human powered.
Last summer I did somethingsimilar.
I linked up Gannet, granite andthe Grand by bike.
There were several othersummits that I was hoping to add

(32:59):
, but it just didn't work outtime-wise.
I had like a little week and ahalf window that I could make it
work to try and link togetheras many as I could, and that was
a really cool project.
And it's really cool that, likehe has documented those things

(33:19):
as well as he has, because, likeit gives you a lot to think
about as somebody who's doingthe exact or something similar
to him, I guess.
Um, I remember being on my bikeand just thinking about some of
the things in his write-up, butalso thinking about, like, how
my experience and what I'mexperiencing right now is is

(33:39):
different than what he wasexperiencing and I can have like
an original experience formyself, I guess.
And, and what is my?
What are my thoughts as as I'mmoving through this kind of
terrain, and how does thatdiffer from somebody else has
been in this position before?
No, I mean like, maybe it's notall that different, maybe it is
different, I, I don't know butlike just the whole human

(34:02):
powered concept, I think is it'sreally cool?
Um and uh, I know Kyle andAnton do several of those types
of things.
Uh, during the year I know Kylehas spent a number of times or
a bit of time in the East coast,even doing some uh like gravel
summit link ups, which I thinkwould be really cool to do um

(34:24):
for sure I don't know.
I, yeah, I, I really look up tothose people, but I also, like I
, I want to be my own individualand and do things that like I
want to do and have my ownthoughts about those experiences
and um.
Um, I think that also manifestsitself in the things that I

(34:47):
pursue to do here in the Wasatch.
Like I, I'm very inspired bypeople who pursue, I mean, the
world or or whatever, but I alsolike kind of want to try and do
things in in my own little wayor whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
So I don't know oh, dude, that's a beautiful answer.
I'm glad I got that out of you.
The uh, the this, this granite,granite and teton link up like.
Like did you I gotta ask you somuch about this?
Like, did you leave from saltlake and bike your ass up there?
Like, where did you start?
And like what, how did you dothis?

Speaker 2 (35:19):
like talk about this yeah, so I actually didn't, just
because of time, um, I, Idecided to start in alpine
wyoming, uh, and I I worked myway to gannett, uh, those first
couple of days bike through thewyoming range, which was awesome
, um, some pretty incrediblegravel riding through there, and

(35:40):
then rode to pinedale and togreen river lakes area and was
able to uh, to do the, uh, to dogannett, which was awesome.
I, I had probably one of thecoolest wildlife encounters I
think I've ever had andapologies to any of my friends
if they listen to this becausethey've probably heard this

(36:00):
before but uh, yeah, I, I cameface to face with the wolverine,
like 15, 20 meters away, and wejust like sat there and stared
at each other, um, for a goodlike 10 seconds.
I was like dude, what is thiscreature?
It took me a really long timeto understand what was actually

(36:21):
happening, but it was super cool.
It was directly below theglacier that you have to cross
to reach the scrambling portionto gain the ridge on Gannet, but
that was incredible.
And to be back there all alone.
Up until that point I hadn'tseen anybody.
I didn't see anybody until Igot back onto the CDT later in

(36:41):
that afternoon, a couple hourslater, but it's pretty
incredible.
But anyways, yeah, from there Ibiked to Dubois and Thermopolis
and to Red Lodge and then didGranite Peak, which was freaking
cool, super cool, biked my waythrough yellowstone and tried

(37:06):
not to get charged by buffaloesI was going through there.
Wow, I had a buffalo bluffcharge me in yellowstone on my
bike, dude, I think I wentthrough there during mating
season, so they're likeespecially reactive.
It's pretty scary.
It must have liked yourmustache or something.
They like wanted you there.
I think I went through thereduring mating season, so they're
like especially reactive, it'spretty scary.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
It must've liked your mustache or something.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
It like wanted you there?
No, I really don't know.
It was funny though.
So there was.
There was a pickup truck thatwas by me and I was like yo, can
I just like throw my bike inyour bed for this Like short
little section, because I'm nottrying to get charged right or
I'm not trying to get trampledright now.
I just hopped on this guy'struck.

(37:47):
He had like a cover.
I just it's like the the nicestsection of bike riding that I
did that whole trip oh, my god,dude, I gotta go back real quick
on the wolverine conversation.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Like wolverines are, like you know, first team.
All violence of the animalkingdom, like what.
Like what was going throughyour head when you ran into this
wolverine?
Did you just, and you had tostare down with it.
It looked at you, you looked atit.
Who blinked first and who ranoff first?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
dude.
When I saw it I thought it waslike a black lab.
I was like dude, why issomebody's dog up here, like how
?
Where's the person?
Why is their dog just roaminglike it's in the middle of
nowhere?
Gannett is like I don't know.
In my opinion, it's one of themore remote summits in uh yeah,
and in the contiguous UnitedStates.

(38:34):
It's, yeah, no matter how youget there, it's gonna take a
while, but it was really cool.
Uh, I feel like, well, thatwhole trip.
So I I feel like I was reallyin tune with my emotions, going
into that trip, um, in a waythat maybe I haven't ever before
and so like, and that was as aresult of some life

(38:56):
circumstances.
I I had been through a divorceabout a year before then.
Um, and this trip was kind oflike a like a celebration of of
that relationship and everythingthat it meant to me, but also
like where I am now and howgrateful I am to be in the
position that I am.
I'm, I was in uh, to be able topursue these things that were

(39:19):
kind of complicated to do in therelationship that I was in.
Um, so, yeah, I mean like,pursue these things that were
kind of complicated to do in therelationship that I was in.
So, yeah, I mean like all thesethings leading up to this trip
led to like this sense of likeemotional awareness or
mindfulness, and, and thatmoment it was just like dude,
this is this, is it?
This is what this is all about.
It wasn't like I don't know, itwasn't like I had a ton of

(39:41):
thoughts, it was just like amoment of clarity, a moment of
of peacefulness and and thisincredible creature.
I feel like I've neverconnected with an animal like
that before and I've I've spenta lot of time hunting, uh, and
not necessarily like to kill,but just like to be in in the
presence of animals.
Like that is is prettyincredible.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
That's so cool and it's very rare, like I don't
think they're super, likethere's not too many of those
things running around which ispretty neat like they're, you
have a higher probability ofprobably running into a grizzly
than you do a wolverine, whichis crazy yeah, it is crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I I've gone back and looked at, uh, just some stats
of like some biological studiesthat have been performed in the
wind rivers, and I think themost recent study that was done
was like 2021 and at the timethere was only three known
wolverines in the wind rivers.
Wow, I think it was two femaleand one male.

(40:36):
And so, not only to like, justsee, but to see it where I saw
it, with these massive summitsresiding in this massive
glaciated valley directly belowthis glacier Dude, it was
spectacular, it really was.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, it's a memory you'll have for the rest of your
life.
That is so cool.
Oh man, I've got to say I thinkthat might beat David Hedges.
I think he said he ran into amountain lion and it's.
He had to stare down with amountain lion and it ran off, or
something like that.
He said it on the podcast awhile ago.
I think this one might be abetter story man.
This is.
This is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Well, thanks, no, I I felt incredibly lucky to have
an encounter like that.
I recognize that that's notsomething that a lot of people
would ever have in any lifetime,so it was really cool yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Can you maybe talk a little bit about like some of
the like I know the approach, Ican't remember and forgive me
for this, but like if it'sGannett or Granite, but like
they're like 50k days, aren'tthey Like?
They're pretty, like it's noteasy to get to those peaks.
It's not like a Colorado 14erwhere it's usually a 12, 13 mile
day.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah, I think Gannett is close to 40 miles.
I think it's a little over8,000 feet of climbing over the
course of that.
The first it's almost a halfmarathon, if I remember right
that you're just running on thecdt and it's it's flat, it's
really flat, uh.

(42:08):
So it's gorgeous, but likethere's almost no climbing in
that, I want to say it's alittle under a thousand feet
over a half mile or a halfmarathon um might be closer to
12 miles, maybe 10 miles, I donknow.
I haven't looked at it for awhile.
But anyways, as soon as youstep off the trail you're
basically uh, I mean there's acouple of stream crossings that

(42:29):
you have to get, that you haveto take, and there's multiple
ways to get there.
I took tourist Creek um to getup there.
It's just the name of thedrainage up there, um, but yeah,
you're basically in a boulderfield a lot of the time and then
you reach some lakes up higherand it kind of turns a little
bit more like high meadow-y um alot of people complain about

(42:51):
like all the boulder hoppingthat's in that area and and
there's definitely a fair bit ofboulder hopping, but there's
also a lot of like pretty lushmeadows that you get to run
through, which is prettyspectacular, um, but yeah, it's.
I mean that 8 000 or whateverhow much feet of climbing comes

(43:11):
in the second half.
And then there's like, uh, in Iwent, the goalie that you
typically go up was there'sstill a lot of snow and I I
didn't bring an ice axe or orany, like I didn't have crampons

(43:32):
or anything like that, I wasjust wearing my mutants, um, but
uh, um, the the snow was likeice dude it was, it was rock
hard.
So I ended up just like going Iclimbed, lookers, lookers, left
of that ascent goalie and gotinto like some low fifth class
climbing, which something that Ireally enjoy.

(43:53):
Uh, in hindsight, I'm kind ofglad that it was a little icy,
just because it facilitated,like me thinking, oh, I should
probably move over to this areaand anyways, it was really
enjoyable, um, and then there'sa little bit more like third and
fourth stuff on the on thesummit ridge, but yeah, it is a

(44:14):
ways back there.
Uh, summoning ganad I I don'tfeel like I've ever felt more
remote anywhere in the unitedstates, in the lower 48 at least
.
It was pretty special and, likeI said, I had like that entire
day to myself.
Not that I'm always looking forthose days.
I think there's value in seeingother people out there.

(44:36):
I think it's cool that peopleare getting after stuff and I'm
not like looking to have anexperience where I don't see
anybody.
But it was really cool that dayto just like have that for
myself.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
So it's very special, yeah, like I said, like in the
same thing with the Wolverine,like it's.
Those are memories you'll havefor the rest of your life, like
it's just so, I don't know,those are, those are the days
like, those are the ones thatwere living is like you did a
lot of living that day, pretty,pretty freaking cool dude.
Yeah no, it's definitely reallycool so biking to the grand,
running up the grand and playingthat game like was that your

(45:10):
first time up the grand and whatwas your takeaway on that?

Speaker 2 (45:14):
yeah, it was.
Um, yeah, first time on thegrand I was.
I was actually more nervous forthe Grand than I was any of
those other summits, justbecause I was under the
impression that it was way moretechnical than anything I would
encounter.
On the other two, I actuallyfound Granite Peak to be the

(45:36):
most technical.
I did get off route and so thatcontributed to that, but the
Grand was really cool.
But the grand was.
The grand was really cool, man,I it was kind of a funky
morning actually, so I wasn'tsure I was going to be able to
summit and I was bummed becausethat was the last day of my trip

(45:57):
.
Was the grand?
And uh, I was looking at theforecast like leading up to that
day as I was biking.
It's like, okay, two daysbefore, what am I looking at?
Like, am I gonna get a window?
The weather looked uh, butanyways, I I just pressed on
hoping that maybe a window wouldopen up.

(46:19):
But the night before theweather was saying that there
was supposed to be snow by like9 am on the summit and uh, what
ended up happening is that stormrolled in a little early.
So I got to the saddle and itwas like totally socked in.
I was like, damn this, thismight not work today.
I don't think the weather'sgonna cooperate, um, but I just

(46:43):
like kept going.
I was like, if I'm just gonnalike go until it doesn't make
sense to go anymore, um ran intoseveral other parties on my way
up there, which was really Idon't know just like chatting.
You know what are you guysthinking?
I ran into some people thatwere coming down, asked them why
they decided to come down andand for me it just like it just

(47:05):
made sense to keep going.
And, um, one of the people whoI ran up to up the, who I ran
into up there, um, it was alsohis first time and he was just
soloing and we ended up doingthe belly crawl together,
working our way.
I, I think we did most of themost of OS together, actually,
if I remember right, which wasreally cool to share that with

(47:29):
somebody else, but also feellike I'm having my own
experience at the same time,like I'm I don't know, it was
really cool.
But yeah, the ground was thewindow.
Like, as soon as I got to thebelly crawl, everything went
away.
The clouds went away, the skiescleared.
I don't know what happened.
But I got to the summit and itwas incredible, like I, you
couldn't ask for betterconditions is awesome.

(47:52):
But yeah, that was I don't knowdude like the way that trip
ended being able to do that, dothe grand on the final day, and
that was kind of planned.
I wanted that to be like theculmination of of this whole
thing, not that I was liketrying to have a certain kind of
experience or whatever, but itwas like the grand.
This is something I've, asummit that I've wanted to do

(48:15):
ever since I first laid eyes onit as a kid and just have never
made, made it happen and uh,finally decided this is, we're
gonna go for it.
And uh, yeah, it worked out.
None of those summits I haddone before the trip and and
they were I mean, that's likepart of it for me was there's
three summits that I I've beeninspired by for a really long

(48:38):
time and might as well go for it.
And if it works out, it worksout I.
If it doesn't, it doesn't, Iguess, I don't know, but it was
a really cool trip, definitely.
Uh, one of the core things Ithink I've ever done in my life.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
So cool man.
I think everybody needs to havelike some sort of like soul
adventure like that, where it'syour, your, your completely on
your own, You're figuring it outyourself, You're, you're pat,
you're completely on your own,You're figuring it out yourself,
You're, you're pat, you'reliterally.
It's all human power from fromplace to place, and I don't know
like it's.
Kyle and Anton have inspired mylike me as well.
Like I, this year, it took mean injury to finally get on the
bike and start messing aroundwith a gravel bike and it just

(49:14):
opened up so many doors.
I was like, wow, this is likesuch an like.
I'll never just put a bike toeverything now.
I'll never.
I just want to bike toeverything now.
This is amazing and yeah, itreally changes your perspective.
Um, just on everything, like howyou can completely transform
your fitness.
Um, just doing, you know bikelink ups and things like that.
Or biking to peaks and runningup the peak and then biking.

(49:34):
You know running down and thenyou know biking.
I got to ask you this inbetween, so, like, would you
give yourself time, like half aday to recover from, like,
whatever long biking you weredoing, or were you just like,
you know like uh, or like get toone point, sleep and then wake
up, do the peak and then bike tothe next location.
Like how were you like linkingthat so you're able to like kind

(49:57):
of recover and just have somelegs to be able to run these
things?

Speaker 2 (50:01):
yeah, I, I consider bike time recovery time.
Maybe that's not fair to saybecause like 100 miles is 100
miles, but like I just don't.
I feel like my body is able torecover, even if it is a long
day on the bike.
Plus, like I'm just not movingthat fast on the bike.

(50:23):
I'm loaded.
I got like my bike weighs Idon't know, probably 70 pounds
with everything that I have onthere, and so it's like I'm not
really pushing it.
I'm trying to enjoy thatexperience.
I, of course, I want to coverthe terrain as fast as I can,
but, yeah, those days in betweenare definitely rest days.
There were a couple nights where, yeah, I went into that trip

(50:47):
with a pad that had a hole in itsleeping pad.
So, like the first five days ofthat trip were really miserable
.
I didn't sleep.
I probably was sleeping like Idon't know two, three hours a
night and I actually called afriend who's a coach three hours
a night and I actually called afriend who's a coach and it was

(51:07):
like I didn't, like I feel fineduring the day, but I feel like
this is going to catch up to meat some point.
I'm just not.
I'm I'm not getting the sleepthat I need.
Unfortunately, when I wentthrough, cody was able to buy a
new pad.
I had tried patching this thingand just nothing was working.
Um, but, and then, like,throughout the trip, I would get
a couple motels I think Istayed in two motels uh, just to

(51:29):
like expedite that recovery alittle bit.
But I don't know, I mean, onthe bike, you can eat a ton of
food, which is great, alsohelping with recovery.
I'd probably consume, I dondon't know, four or 5,000
calories a day when I was on thebike.
Um, but yeah, I I think thesmallest day, the smallest day I

(51:50):
did, was just biking from RedLodge to East Rosebud, or sorry,
west Rosebud.
I did West Rosebud, but that,uh, no, east anyways, yeah, east
Rosebud, uh, that that's all.
That was only like a 30 mileday.
Um, I had biked like 140 milesthe day before, though, and I

(52:11):
was just like, ah, might as wellenjoy my day before I go up to
gannett, or sorry, granite, um,but yeah, I mean there there
wasn't a whole lot of, uh, ofactual like days off or anything
, and part of that, too, is thetime I mean we had.
So the way my trip started, Ihad just finished our Cirque

(52:33):
Series race in Alaska.
I landed like Monday morning.
I had a red eye flight.
I landed at 5 am, got to myhouse at 6 am, picked up my bike
and drove to alpine and pushedoff at like noon and then I
finished my trip on tuesday, orwas it like monday?

(52:54):
It was on monday a week and ahalf later, or no?
What was?
What was the timeline?
Anyways, I had another racethat was the following, like
that weekend that I had to beback for and and working.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
So it was a targhee, right there for targhee or no, I
think our next.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
What was our next race?
I think it was, maybe.
Yeah, I think it was alta.
Yeah nice so it was like thewindow that I had and it ended
up being that I finished.
So I had like planned a coupleof rest days going into the trip
just as a like you know, maybeI, maybe I'll want to rest or
whatever, maybe I'll just wantto chill somewhere.

(53:31):
But in hindsight I kind of wishI would have tacked on a couple
other summits, just because itwould have been doable.
Uh, I and then I.
There's a couple of days that Iwas on the bike longer than I
thought I would want to be.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
So so cool, so interesting man, were you eating
like in insane amounts, likewere you just stopping at gas
stations and just grabbing likepop tarts and shit.
Like where were you like whereyou'd eaten on that?

Speaker 2 (53:56):
you do a lot of chocolate milk yeah that's the
stuff, man it's so good.
Oh man, nothing hits likechocolate milk on a bike.
Um, no, I, yeah, it was a lotof gas station food, um, and
then, uh, yeah, I mean it's kindof grab and go and finger foods

(54:17):
that I can eat while I am onthe bike.
I i's several Mavericks that Iran into on the way and I'm a
big fan of those Maverickburritos.
Pick those up.
They last a long time.
I don't know what they have inthose things, but they're good
for a while.
They don't need to berefrigerated or anything.
So just, yeah, I can whip oneof those out after a couple

(54:41):
hours of riding or something.
Yeah, I'll whip one of thoseout after a couple hours of
riding or something.
And yeah, it's not that down,but that's the other nice thing
about a bike is you're neverreally that far away from a gas
station, which means free supplymeans food, that's true.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
That's true, that's true.
Well, dude, thank you so muchfor breaking it down Like I
really appreciate it.
What a special trip.
Um, I gotta ask you this thislike what's obviously you have,
you know, big boy job with whatyou do with circ series, but
like what's what's next on theathlete front, like is there any
races you want to try to get tothis year that you'll be racing
after the seat?
Like after the circ seriesconcludes, or like any bike link

(55:15):
ups?
Like what's what's kind of nextfor you on the athlete front?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I have a blog, a couple ideas of things that I
might want to do.
It's just a matter of like,what the schedule will permit.
Um, I think I mean I have aninteresting schedule where, like
, most of my winter is free butmy summer is just kind of full
on.
Um, I mean, like looking tonext year, I I'd really like to

(55:41):
get over to Europe and do somesky racing, just to experience
what that's like.
I don't know if that's going tohappen or not.
I mean I would love to go dolike Trophy Okima or Monte Rosa
or some of those more storiedsky races, again just to
experience it.
I don't expect to becompetitive or anything like

(56:02):
that, but I just I think it'd bereally fun.
Um, sky race things around herego, I just like, yeah, I, I just
I just want to like mess aroundwith some friends.
I don't know.
I have a friend who he ran likekillington and uh it's kind of
funny.
So I missed a turn on thecourse that I marked, which I I

(56:23):
don't know what happened there,but my friend also missed a turn
.
But we don't.
We mark our courses really wellat cirque series.
Anybody that's around one ofour races knows that um is.
I don't know what happened, butwhere did both of us miss a
turn?
Dude, I don't want to talkabout oh shit all right, there
was people there.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
There was like a person standing.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
I do like each one well, I actually turned where I
shouldn't have turned.
It was just kind of like it wasreally foggy on the descent and
I I got you.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
I actually looked at my watch.
I know what you're talkingabout.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, yeah, I looked at my watch, and I never look at
my watch.
But next thing I knew when Ilooked up again it was like oh,
oh, I'm not seeing flags anymore.
Uh, anyways, him and I, we both,we both got off course a little
bit and I was like reallystoked to race him and at that
point we were like pretty closeto each other.
He, he maybe had like 60 meterson me, so what, like uh, I

(57:20):
don't know, a 20 second gap orsomething like that.
But um, we were, uh, we, hecame back and he's like dude, we
got a race.
And uh, so he, he drove a routehe actually just sent it to me
this morning or last night anduh, the total bullshit route
here in the woods.

(57:42):
Okay, the uh, the Luke, steveand Jake showdown, I think is
what's going on or something.
But I don't know, man, I, Idon't do a lot of racing and
that's.
I mean, that's kind of the funpart about my job is like it
doesn't really feel like work,because that's not or like like
it doesn't feel like like it itinterferes with my hobby as as a

(58:04):
trail runner or mountain runner, whatever you want to call it,
because I don't race very muchon my own.
Um, so it's like really fun,but I don't know, racing is fun
though I, I, these two races Idid earlier this year were a
blast, and and then I did alocal race, fins race, twisted
fork and got absolutely smacked.

(58:25):
So that was a good one, whichone.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Did you run 15k or 30k would you raise?

Speaker 2 (58:29):
I did the 30k.
It was bad.
I had a really, I think mybuddy shout out to nick tusa.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Nick tusa was in that race too.
Dude.
Jacob grant fucking did reallywell.
Obviously, garrett corcoran andcaleb all crushed it, but like,
yeah, it's interesting youwatch that?
Boys or can handle heat dude.
I think that was the big thing.
It's like it's supposed it washot there, right it was pretty
hot that day.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I think it was like 90 degrees.
Um, we started a little earlier, though it's probably like 75
by the time we started, but itwas super hot.
I felt bad for the people whodid the.
What was it?
The 68 K or whatever?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
That's a long day out , that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, oh man.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Well, listen, steve.
I want to say dude, thank youso much for coming on for a
conversation.
This hour flew by.
I really appreciate it.
Obviously, I'll probably I'llsee you, we I'll probably I'll
see you, we'll be, we'll hangout at uh you're in.
Alaska, right, no, I'm notgoing to be in Alaska.
We changed the trip around I amgoing to be hopefully at Alta.
I'm like starting a whole newtraining block and kind of
building back up, so hopefullywe'll be at a basin and then

(59:34):
targeting crystal as well.
I think crystal is going to behopefully peak for crystal.
That'd be nice and kind offigure things out along the way
with alta and a basin.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, new race.
Anybody listening?
Come check out our crystalcourse.
I think it's going to be prettyspectacular.
I haven't actually been upthere, only seen pictures, but
it looks, it looks prettyspecial.
Um, yeah, I'm, I'm reallyexcited, should be fun.
I was talking to tom yesterday,actually, because I thought
that you were going to be inAlaska.

(01:00:04):
Tom's going to come out toAlaska too, is he?
I was joking with him I was likeyo, we just got to get James to
do an interview with the wholeCirque gang me, you and me, tom,
julian, just get all three ofus together.
I got it.
You know what dude?
We together?

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
I gotta you know what dude I got?
We gotta figure something outfor next year, maybe like doing
like a round table thing, likepre-race or post-race or
something like that, to talkabout it and like, yeah, I think
that would be a lot of fun.
I've been thinking about it too, because I'm like man, like
there's opportunities here.
The problem is I like to race,so it's like it can't be.
Obviously we can't do somethinglike commentating during the
race, but maybe something before, after, something like that.

(01:00:40):
I, I don't know.
We're going to figure it outfor next year.
Something like that would befun.
Yeah, it would be really fun.
Hooper's always funny.
He's got jokes for days, atleast he thinks he does.
Yeah, he'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Yeah, he's a funny guy, Funny guy Tom.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Listen, man, I really appreciate the conversation.
Yeah, man, I'm looking forwardto seeing you again later this
summer and we'll be in touch.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Well, yeah, thanks, james.
Really appreciate you having meon, of course, man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
What did you guys think?
Oh man, what a great episode.
For those of you who have everinteracted with Steve, you know
the kind of person he is, andjust a good guy and someone that
I think really represents thesport in the most positive of
ways, um, and just someone justwho brings a per, in my opinion,
a very refreshing perspective.
He does the things that getshim excited, um, and that's how
he gets out and plays in themountains, and also, on top of

(01:01:30):
that, what he does in his rolewith the Cirque series, um, you
know, these races, um, a lot ofthese things wouldn't be
possible like this great,amazing series If it wasn't for
people like Steve.
Julian, um, no-transcript Guys,before we get going, I think

(01:01:59):
the best way to support Steveprobably would be to sign up for
a Cirque series race and if yousee him at the race, say hey,
um, he's a little more, um, Iguess you could say private on
social media, so I'm sure heprobably wouldn't want all that
social media attention.
If you are looking to followhim, you could Google his name
and follow him yourself, um, butI'm not going to blow up.
Blow up the man's spot onsocial.

(01:02:19):
Um, blow up the man's spot onsocial.
Um, but, yeah, if you areinterested in interacting with
them, I think the best way issay hey at a Cirque series race
and support, support the group.
That way.
That's the best way to do it.
Um, yeah, guys, hope you enjoythis one.
Um, if you enjoyed this episodeor any episodes prior, um,
wherever you consume yourpodcasts, uh, please don't
hesitate to give us a five-starrating and review.

(01:02:39):
Um, if this brought some joy toyou or you learned anything new
from it, hopefully we can bringyou, guys some value.
Uh, going forward, um, and yeah, I hope you guys have a great
rest of your week.
We've got some fun thingscoming down the pipeline Um,
some cool interactions.
Um, uh, some cool race previews.
Got some stuff coming out forseries and all some stuff in the
pipeline for speed goat.
Um, you know, maybe some coolstuff in the pipeline for

(01:03:00):
Speedgoat.
You know, maybe some cool stuffin the future with the sub hub
we're going to be workingtogether with on some cool stuff
and, yeah, all kinds of goodstuff there.
Have a great rest of your week,guys, and I really appreciate
it.
Thanks so much.
Listen up, guys.
The Steep Stuff podcast isbrought to you by Ultimate
Direction USA.
Guys, I am so excited UD justdropped their new race vest six
liter, and ultra vest, 12 literinto beautiful aesthetic colors.

(01:03:24):
You guys got to check these newvests out.
They're dynamic in ways likethat you just have never seen
from an ultimate direction vestVery stretchy, lots of storage,
beautiful aesthetic colorwayscoming into, coming to you in a
new, like a white and blue andan onyx and green just
absolutely beautiful vests.
I think these ones are justlike some of the best products

(01:03:46):
we've ever dropped and I'm soexcited for you guys to try them
out.
Hop on ultimate directioncomand use code steep stuff pod
Again, that's steep stuff podfor 25% off your new vest.
I mean, they're alreadyaffordably priced, but 25% off
is just going to make it so muchmore affordable for folks in an
already increasingly expensivetrail running environment.
So hop on ultimate directioncom, get yourself a new vest, a

(01:04:08):
pack or any hydration solutionand let me know what you guys
think.
Thank you you.