#108 - Sarah Carter

Send us a text

From collegiate rejection to trail running triumph, Sarah Carter's story is one of extraordinary resilience and self-discovery. After being cut from her university team and told she lacked potential, Sarah transferred to Colorado State University where she rebuilt her confidence and reignited her passion for running.

Our conversation dives deep into Sarah's remarkable capacity to overcome adversity – a quality that defines her athletic journey. She candidly shares the emotional toll of her college transfer, the years spent rebuilding her confidence, and how these experiences shaped her approach to professional competition. Rather than viewing setbacks as endpoints, Sarah sees them as redirection toward where she's meant to be.

We explore her recent success at the Tepe Pack Trail Golden Trail Series race in Mexico, where she secured an impressive 8th place finish despite coming off a significant glute injury. Sarah reveals how she managed this performance with minimal training, sharing the mental strategies that helped her excel when physical preparation wasn't ideal.

The discussion takes us through her partnership with Topo Athletic, training alongside elite runners in Boulder, and finding her sweet spot in distances up to 50K. Sarah offers valuable insights about the competitive nature of shorter trail distances and why patience in progression can yield better results than rushing to ultra distances.

What emerges is a portrait of an athlete who embodies grit and authenticity. Sarah's journey teaches us that our greatest growth often comes through our biggest challenges – a reminder that perseverance isn't just about pushing through physical pain, but about maintaining belief in yourself when others don't. Whether you're a competitive trail runner or someone facing your own obstacles, Sarah's story will inspire you to embrace the winding path to your highest potential.

Follow Sarah on IG - @sarah_carter_xc

Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello

Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod

Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com! 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys an episode today withSarah Carter.
I'm really excited to finallyhave a conversation with Sarah
Just a big fan, and after thisconversation, I left even a
bigger fan.
We caught up with Sarah about amonth removed from her eighth
place finish at the Tape PackTrail Golden Trail Series race

(00:21):
in Mexico, which, which was oneof her I think, probably one of
her proudest performances.
Um, talked a lot about thatperformance.
We got into that a lot.
And then we, I think, a lot ofthe conversation that was really
cool was we got into sarah'sjourney.
Um, it's one of just like beingtough and being gritty and
perseverance.
We got into you know herexperience in college, um, where

(00:44):
she had to transfer and go toanother team, um, to run track
and cross country.
Um, we got into signing with anew brand, um, and and
fulfilling that.
Um, you know this past uh, latespring, or sorry, early spring
uh, late winter, um, and then wetalked about what she had
planned for the rest of herseason you know, the rest of her

(01:05):
2025.
And we also got into injurycoming back from you know a
pretty serious injury and whatit's like to, you know, build up
and try to go race broken arrowwith only a few weeks of with
running and, yeah, just herability to, you know, kind of
break through and persevere onthat.
So this is a really funconversation.
Uh, really appreciate Sarah forcoming on and being open to

(01:27):
telling her story, um, wishingher the best of luck in in the
rest of her season, and I thinkyou guys are going to really
enjoy this one.
It was a great conversation.
So, without further ado, sarahCarter, it's time.

(01:52):
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, we arelive People.

(02:43):
What's going on?
It is, guys, super excitingadventures in the mountains,
summer races.
Um, you know it's about thattime to start thinking about
your gear.
You know, I, uh I want to sayour brand partner, ultimate
direction's got you guys covered, pop on over to ultimate
directioncom.
Check out a whole quiver of aquiver and, uh, new vests and

(03:06):
belts that have just dropped.
Pop on over to check out thenew race and ultra vests race
vest and a six liter, the ultravest and a 12 and beautiful new
aesthetic colorways um,definitely dynamic and stretchy.
Cool new materials um,definitely something that can,
uh, definitely buff out.
Buff out your, uh, your kit for2025.
On top of that, we did justdrop a brand new pole quiver

(03:29):
that's compatible for all ofthese vests.
Um, definitely something you'regoing to want to add.
And if you're not a vest person,pop on over to the belt section
.
You can check out the utilitybelt and the comfort belt.
The utility belt is a littlebit more of an ultra belt more
storage capacity, a little bitthicker and ability to hold
poles.
The comfort belt's a little bitsmaller Think sub-ultra or

(03:50):
workout maybe oriented beltthat's going to hold your gels
and your phone Still superdurable, but just a little bit
tinier for those smalleradventures or maybe shorter
races like a Cirque Series raceor something like that in the
mountains.
So pop on over to ultimatedirectioncom.
They have you covered for allyour hydration solutions.
Use code steep stuff pod for25% off.
Again, that's steep stuff pod.

(04:12):
One word for 25% off.
Ultimate directions got youcovered and if you have any
questions, shoot me a DM, let meknow.
I'd be happy to answer anyproduct related questions for
you guys.
So thanks so much.
Check out ultimate directionSarah Carter.
Welcome to the steep stuffpodcast.
How's it going?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Great yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, Stoked to have you on.
Finally, I feel like I've beenlike adjacently aware of you,
like in the Boulder runningscene, like trail team stuff,
for like a while and then, afteryou know your most recent race
in Mexico, we had a great finish.
I was like you know what let'shave a conversation.
So happy, uh happy, we wereable to finally do this.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, I appreciate it .
I think you know I always talkwith my friends here in Boulder.
There's one degree ofseparation between you and
anybody else in the kind ofrunning endurance sports world.
Um, so it's, it's cool tofinally be on.
Yeah, now for sure.
How's your?
How's your week going so far?
Yeah, my, my week's going well.
Um, last sort of big ish weekof training before I start to

(05:09):
taper for my next couple ofraces.
Um, so I'm enjoying the processof that.
Since I was out of running fora while, um, it's nice to be
back and just kind of knockingout those consistent miles,
consistent workouts, um, and, asI think, as many former trip
track runners will say, like thetaper tantrum is coming.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
What do you?
What do you, if don't mind measking like, what do you have
coming up?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah.
So, um, in about a week I'll beflying out to Europe with a
couple of friends and we'll bedoing golden trail, austria, and
then Sears and all after that.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Oh, so cool.
We'll get into the golden trailstuff but like that, uh, what
is the name of that Austria race?
It's like the glacier trail.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
It's Alpine glacier trail, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Looks so rad.
That seems like a sweet course,right, and then series and
obviously iconic right, it's aniconic race, yeah, and August is
going to be a big one.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
It kind of just increases in magnitude.
Um, so I'm starting with GoldenTrail, austria, sears and all,
and then a few weeks after thatI have OCC, stepping up in
distance and vert and everything, and really excited about all
of it.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Oh man, super cool, super cool.
All right, so before we getstarted, maybe let's do the
biographical stuff, let's getthat out of the way.
Maybe give me like thefive-minute elevator pitch on
like your kind of yourbackground with running.
Maybe talk about your time atCSU, all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, sure thing, oh gosh, Okay, condensing 20 years
into five minutes.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
You can go more.
Take as much time, yeah, umyeah, so I've.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I've been a runner for about 20 years now.
Um.
My first 5k was actually afunny accident.
It was like some community youknow 5k race and I was six.
My parents thought I was eachwith the other and I actually
ended up running my first 5kcompletely alone.
I had no idea what a 5k was.

(06:58):
I didn't know how long it was.
I thought maybe it was fivemiles, but I also didn't know
how long five miles was.
Thought maybe it was five miles, um, but I also didn't know how
long five miles was.
Um.
So I just ended up thinking Iwas lost and going to die in a
cornfield.
Um, then I finished and youknow, the romantic in me is that
I loved running forever andever.
I think I was.
I think I cried actually, um,but yeah, after that I was

(07:20):
actually.
I was a youth triathlete for abit, um, and it just became
pretty apparent that my strengththere was running, um.
So while I was doing thosetriathlons I was also doing a
lot of uh, road five case andeventually came across somebody
on the USATF circuit.
So I started doing all thejunior Olympic stuff, um, took

(07:41):
me into high school crosscountry and track and then
actually did my first two yearsof collegiate running at the
university of Washington Um, sohad a few teammates who are also
on the trail scene these days.
Um, and then and, yeah, after.
I mean, I've talked about thisbefore, but it's something I
want to be very open about assomebody you know who obviously

(08:04):
not only is able to runprofessionally but still loves
running Um.
After my sophomore year atWashington, I was actually cut
from the team and told that youknow, I just didn't have the
potential to be successful inthe sport Um.
So transferring for me itwasn't just um a loose fit

(08:26):
choice, it was not really achoice at all.
Um.
My choice was, if I wanted tocontinue running collegiately, I
had to leave Um and honestly,that was the best possible thing
that could have happened to me.
Um, because it led me to CSU,uh, somewhere that I hadn't
thought about before.
Um and that, you know, reallywas the place that made it

(08:49):
possible for me to not only fallback in love with running um
but to, you know, reach, I wouldwant to say my full potential,
cause I think you know we stillgot a ways to go, but to reach
everything I have so far Um, andbecause of you know I have so
far, and because of you know,every red shirt under the sun.

(09:10):
I had a full five years at CSU.
So it, yes, so I had sevenyears in the NCAA and I'm very
grateful for that.
Not so grateful for all theinjuries that made that possible
, but I'm glad I was able to dothat, just because I felt like
you know, the first two years Iat Washington I spent a lot of
time injured and then the restof the time also just very kind

(09:30):
of in the pits mentally.
So getting to kind of startover fresh, have that full five
years at CSU to just grow anddevelop as an athlete, as a
person, to pursue things Ireally cared about academically,
was really exciting.
To pursue things I really caredabout academically was a really
exciting Um, yeah.
So I finished off my time atCSU, uh, just over a year ago
now, um, and hopped straightinto trails.

(09:51):
I think the thing I kind ofgiggled about last year was it
was two weeks to the day aftermy last NCAAs.
I was, um, on the start line ofmy first trail race of the
season.
Um, it was the broken arrow, vk.
So it was really a quick, quicktransition, um, yeah, and since
then I've kind of just been,you know, trying new distances,

(10:13):
trying new disciplines.
Um, had my first road half thatI've run as an adult, um,
earlier this spring.
I did my first ultra back inDecember.
So it's been a really funtransitional time of just
getting to kind of discover, youknow, what direction do I want
to take running as a career in,like, what distances feel good,

(10:36):
like, what kind of racing do Ienjoy and where does my
potential lie.
And it's been a fun process,definitely a complicated process
, um, but you know I've enjoyedit all and running
professionally has been my dreamsince I was that six year old,
um, and I saw, I think, one ofthe pre Fontaine documentaries

(10:56):
for the first time, um, so youknow, getting to do what I'm
doing now is really special.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
What a cool you might have, one of the best stories I
think I've ever heard specialwhat a cool you might have.
One of the best stories I thinkI've ever heard on the podcast
Like you know, and the reason Isay, the reason I said it's
because, like, obviously it's.
it's a really difficult time inyour life getting either cut
from a team or going throughsomething like as emotionally
scarring or taxing like that.
It's like it's like losing ajob.
It's like pretty, that's like Ican imagine something pretty
intense and especially beingvery young to go through that.

(11:24):
And then you know being able to, you know realize that life
goes on and not necessarilyreinvent yourself, but realize
that like you're able tocontinue to do the sport and do
all those things Can you talkabout like how it changed you.
Like I would imagine it'sbecause you it seems like you
have a very positive spin on thesport, very positive outlook
spin on the sport very positiveoutlook.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
I try to um, it ebbs and flows for sure, I think, you
know, coming out of high schoolI had my whole career has kind
of been defined by these periodsof kind of relative mediocrity
and then I have this big jumpand I get a taste of, like, what
I'm capable of, and I get ataste of, okay, these dreams
aren't so far-fetched.

(12:04):
And then, you know, thingshappen that kind of send me back
into, you know, that sort ofstruggling place and I had it
happen several times.
So, yeah, coming out of highschool, I really wanted to, you
know, go to like the kind ofbiggest, most prestigious, most
competitive program that I could, because I thought that that's

(12:25):
what I needed to be successful.
Um, you know, and of course whodoesn't want that kind of thing
?
Right?
Um, and of course there were,there were benefits to that, and
I think a lot about that asI've entered the professional
sphere.
But what I realized as acollegiate athlete is that what
I wanted wasn't what I needed,and I think that really showed

(12:49):
when I was transferring, becauseI had spent my time at
Washington, especially thatsophomore year, feeling very
unsupported, feeling veryunwanted, feeling like, you know
, no matter how hard I worked,no matter how hard I tried, no
matter what I accomplished, likeyou know, no matter how much I
communicated, it just was nevergoing to be good enough.

(13:10):
And so it was really importantto me when I transferred to go
somewhere that I knew I waswanted, and go somewhere where
the coaches and the team and thesupport staff actually cared
about my development andtrajectory and didn't just, you
know, throw me away based onkind of what I considered a

(13:32):
hastily made assumption about me.
And you know, finding them atCSU was really awesome and I'm
not going to act like it wasthis instantaneous epiphany of
everyone here likes me, so nowI'm going to be good, it wasn't
that at all.
It was very much this processof having to, you know, find
confidence and find like aninternal sense of self-worth

(13:54):
that I felt like I had kind oflost.
I mean, it took years, like youcan go back and you can look at
my TIFers.
You know I didn't break 17 inthe 5k until halfway through my
fifth year of college, you know,and for a lot of people that's
kind of, you know, the end oftheir career and things didn't
even take off for me until thatpoint.
It was really years and yearslong, like years of unlearning a

(14:30):
lot of bad mental and emotionalhabits and tendencies and years
of building up physical healthand resilience and confidence.
It was a lot of moving piecesat once and, you know, toss some
stress fractures in there anddefinitely stirred the pot.
But I also don't think that Iwould be where I'm at if those
things hadn't happened Like ifI'd had a more linear collegiate

(14:50):
journey.
I don't think I would be whereI am.
I think part of the reason Ican be so positive now and I
kind of just sending thisexperience is because I know
what it's like to have nothinggoing right.
So now, even if it's just onething, I'm excited and grateful

(15:12):
about that.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's a beautiful answer.
Wow, let me ask you.
So I got to double back for asecond.
You grew up in Colorado rightor no, arizona, it was Arizona.
Okay, sorry, I didn't get thatout of you before Super.
No, it's okay.
Yeah, I should have specified.
I just oh, no, you're good.
You're good.
Did you go to CSU with SydneyPeterson?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I did.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Oh, shout out to Sydney.
She's another friend of the pod.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, no, she was my first friend at CSU and she's
still one of my best friends.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Really that's super cool.
Love Sydney, super yeah, wow.
So what a story.
It's interesting to me becauseI talked to so many folks that
have had rough rides in college,like in the sense of either D1,
d2 athletes like not notnecessarily the best time, but
when they get to trail it seemslike they're just having fun.
They're like I just I'm justhaving a good time, like this is
great, there's no pressure,like and you know the pressure
is is the only the pressure youput on yourself, and it's
usually not that much like.
Would you, would you agree withthat like, or do you still put

(16:08):
pressure on yourself in thesport?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
I put a lot of pressure on myself.
Um, I think that's why Igiggled a little bit.
When you were, you know, thefirst thing you said was happy I
am, I am.
I mean, I think this last yearwas kind of this tough dichotomy
for me because on paper my lifewas so cool and so many parts

(16:32):
of it were.
You know, I last summer Iworked for about half the summer
and then I basically just tookmy savings.
I was like I'm going to go toEurope and I'm going to try and
run some competitive races andI'm going to reach out to brands
and I'm just like my goal is todo what I have to do, to try
and, you know, make runningprofessionally a possibility,

(17:05):
because coming out of NCAA likeI was good enough where it was
realistic to pursue, but Iwasn't good enough where there
was anybody lined up around theblock, you know, to offer me
anything coming out of collegeand so, honestly, this last year
was kind of tough.
It was I put so much pressureon every single race to be that
kind of defining moment that gotme sponsored and kind of none
of them were that and I think itwas.
You know, it was a lot of thecomparison game, you know, like

(17:27):
looking at people that I wouldconsider my peers, who walked
out of the NCAA with a contractin hand or walked out of the
NCAA, had one really good trailrace and got a contract, and you
know, I felt like by that nothappening for me that I was kind
of falling short or that I wasdoing something wrong, and so,

(17:48):
yeah, I put a lot of pressure onevery race and of course, as
all of us know, that actuallymakes it harder to be successful
.
But it's also hard, once you'rein that mindset, to take
yourself out of it and eventhough, objectively, I knew I
was kind of being my own worstenemy, it was hard to talk
myself out of that place becauseI was just like I don't know, I

(18:11):
think I just I expected to havethat magic transition that many
people that I know did, and Ifelt like not having that was a
personal shortcoming and I thinkit also, you know, compounded
with the stress of like I'mburning my own personal savings
doing this, you know, and I'venot always been the most

(18:32):
financially stable.
So it felt scary to be like Iam unemployed and I'm just kind
of sending it in Europe, hopingthat something is going to work
out.
And when it kind of seemed likethat wasn't happening, I was
freaking out a little bit, youknow, and I was reaching out to
brands and hearing a lot of no'sand that's, you know, the
reality for most of us.

(18:53):
But it's still hurt to hear,you know, because it made it
feel like man, what have I beenworking for all this time, if
I'm actually maybe not goodenough after all?
And it brought back, you know,just a lot of those feelings of
not being enough and beinginsufficient as an athlete or,
you know, like letting peopledown, even though I'm, like I

(19:13):
was on the surface, like I'mgoing to Europe, I'm training in
Chamonix, you know, I'm runningup mountains every day.
I moved to Boulder, all ofthese things like look so cool,
but on the flip side of it, Iwas kind of having an
existential crisis, um, but Iguess that leads me to the
positive side of it, which wasum me, to the positive side of

(19:37):
it, which was signing with Topo.
There we go, there we go there.
It is yeah, and I don't know ifyou were going.
No, talk about it, let's talk.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
It was on my list of things to get to Topo, like
obviously Segue, here we go.
Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.
So they, over the winter,reached out to me and I was
really excited about thatbecause talking to them on
learning more about the brandand their vision and you know
what they're all about and justkind of hearing the enthusiasm
that they had for me was soimportant because it felt like

(20:09):
being in the transfer portal allover again and talking to CSU
Um and that meant a lot to mebecause it made me realize why
on earth would I spend all thismental and emotional energy on
people who don't want me, whenthere's someone right here who
is an incredible brand that doesUm and you know they actually

(20:31):
like the shoe that they justreleased, the vista.
It's the best trail runningshoe I've ever put on my feet.
You know, and I'm like thisfeels like the kind of perfect
parallel of you know, my journeyin college and you know,
realizing that I have everythingI need right here and then some
like my journey doesn't have tolook like my peers for it to be

(20:54):
perfect for me.
Yeah no, oh my God, such a goodanswer.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
I really, and I appreciate you kind of segueing
into Topo.
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
I mean like I have to say, likehonestly, I've tried the shoes
in the past like huge fan, likethey make a fantastic product.
I like it because I think it'sa great signing, because there's
not a ton of athletes on theirteam that are like that 50 K
distance and down and like youare like perfect in that sub
ultra, like more of the goldentrail series and stuff.

(21:20):
I don't think they have anyinternational athletes doing it
either.
So like you're kind of the onewhich is awesome, so you're kind
of like the like brandambassador slash athlete for
them, um, like on that scene,like how does that feel?

Speaker 2 (21:32):
It honestly feels really exciting.
Um, because the the number onething that I felt like was
important for me when sidingwith anybody was, you know, I'm
new to this scene in acompetitive sense and I feel
like I have a long ways to growand ideally I could be with a
brand that can grow along withme.

(21:55):
And so, like having thattrajectory of yeah, I'm, you
know, one of their first, if nottheir first, like kind of 50k
down person, like I'm one of theyounger people on the team, so
I kind of bring a new, a newdemographic and a new type of
energy and hopefully expandinginto new markets, that's been
really special for me.
So I'm like now I feel like,you know, I can develop along

(22:17):
with them and we can kind of,you know, have this intertwined
trajectory, especially because Ialso shoe test for them.
So, you know, getting to verydirectly be a part of that
process is so cool and it's veryrewarding too, you know.
And it's also fun representing abrand like topo, because all
the time I'll be out for a runhere in boulder and, like, I

(22:40):
think every time I've been atthe top of sanitas in the last
month, people be like what isthat that you're wearing and I
get to do the spiel and it's somuch fun.
Um, you know, and one of one ofmy friends you probably know,
talon, yeah, um, yeah, he uhworks Fleet Feet and he's always
telling me when people come inand ask for topos or when they
try them on, and they seem to bepretty universally loved and

(23:02):
I'm like that makes me soexcited to kind of be a part of
that growth.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's an immensely popular shoe.
Like I tried, it was theMountain Racers or something
like that back in the day, yeah,and like I said, it's, you know
, wide toe box but still with adrop like it's, like I said,
immensely popular.
A lot of people wear them.
I'm just happy that, likethey're, they're repping now,
like in the sub ultra scene.
Like they're, they know there'sa market there and they're
trying to attack and like get in.
You know, have athletes inthere and have like just a

(23:32):
presence, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, it's.
It's honestly very untappedbecause, yeah, mountain racer is
what I typically race in, um,and they're awesome.
It's enough cushion for me tofeel comfortable, you know,
doing 50 K plus in them, um, butthey're light and maneuverable
and the traction is awesome, um,the Vibram on the bottom, so
it's like I can grip anything Ineed to um, and you know, I

(23:56):
think pretty much gosh.
I guess two of the three ultrasI've done have been quite wet
um and so sorry.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I said chuck, and that's no joke, man.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Oh my gosh especially this last year.
Oh my gosh, yeah, I was likethat was.
I think we were wet before weeven got to the start line.
Um, yeah, don't ask why Istarted in a tank top.
That was a mistake.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
At least you didn't get hypothermia man.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
So people like yeah, oh, no it.
It was scary, passing peoplewho were very obviously not okay
and I don't know how I managedto not, um, cause I did the
first, probably 10 or so milesin the tank top, um, and I mean,
I knew it was a mistake, but Iwasn't going to stop before an
aid station because my handswere too numb, um, so I was like

(24:41):
you just have to make it to thenext aid and they can put your
coat on for you.
Um, yeah, that race was gnarlyum, but anyways, back to the
topos.
Sorry, um, no, no, it's okay.
Gosh chuck, and that was.
It was a trip, Um, but runningand Thailand had several water
crossings, it was quite wet aswell.
Um, running that far in acompletely saturated shoe and

(25:02):
not having it rub all the skinoff of your foot, I think is a
pretty good endorsement.
Um, yeah, comfort wise, they'vebeen great.
Performance wise.
Um, yeah, I train in the vistas, love those like the most.
They're the most maneuverablehigh cushion trainer I've ever
worn, um, which I've tried a lotof them.

(25:23):
So big, big fan, yeah supercool, super cool.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Well, I'm excited to see where this partnership goes,
like, I like, yeah, it's verycool to see, uh, like I said,
them on the scene and just youknow, see how, as it, as it
continues to develop.
Um, let's talk racing.
I want to check because youjust got back from is it, was it
tepe, or is that?
How do they pronounce it?
The tepe, the?
tepe trail yeah trail was the,the one uh that just took place
in mexico, but a few weeksremoved probably, like well,

(25:48):
about a month now.
Uh goes to show you how much Ikeep track of time uh, that said
, though, you had a top 10finish there at a golden trail
world series race like arguablyone of your best performances so
far, and you've had a lot ofreally good ones.
Like, let's talk about the raceitself and just how excited you
were about the performance andjust how it went for you.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, um, honestly, my expectations going into that
race were kind of purposely zero, um, just because I was coming
off of a pretty rough day atBroken Arrow, um, and I had done
very minimal training for bothof those races.
Um, I think it's on myInstagram but, yeah, I think
before Broken Arrow, the longestthing I did was, uh, 12 miles

(26:30):
with about 1500 feet of vert.
Um, once, uh, and that was Iwas just, you know, with that I
was just simply not prepared for29 miles and just under 9,000
feet of climbing descent and soI don't.
I think I was still sore fromBroken Arrow on the start line
of Mexico and you know I wasstill in the phase of just

(26:52):
praying that I wasn't going tore-tear my glute need.
So, going into that race, I wasjust like I'm here because you
know I lost a few races earlierin the season.
This lined up really perfectlyfor me it's a longer course,
which means I'm not going tofeel quite so insecure about not
having a lot of leg speed.
The team hosting the race theywere phenomenal and flexible and

(27:17):
accommodating.
So I was really excited to havegotten to go on that trip
because I didn't know if I wasgoing to be able to from a
health standpoint.
So getting to even be there Iwas like heck, yeah.
But yeah, honestly, on the startline I was like if I can, just
if I can go through today and Ican kind of keep my head and
keep my health and make it tothe finish line, you know,

(27:40):
feeling even marginally betterthan I did at Broken Arrow, I'm
going to be happy.
And I think I got into it and Irealized, you know, even just
in that week since Broken Arrow,like I had already adapted to
some capacity, because I feltbetter, I felt more of a flow,
my body was cooperating more.
You know I was because I feltbetter, I felt more of a flow,
my body was cooperating more.
You know, I was holding downfuel better, my downhills were,

(28:01):
I was, they were better, thebaseline was low.
I felt better and I just, youknow, I felt more in the race
from the start.
Um, but mentally I did put alot of emphasis on not forcing
myself to have any specificoutcome in order to be happy.
And yeah, I mean, I think youknow, I realized by about

(28:23):
halfway through that top 10 wasgoing to be well within grasp
and that made me excited and,you know, push through finish.
I was just really, you know,proud of being able to pull off
my highest ever golden trailfinish.
Off of what conditions that Iwould consider to be not, uh,
ideal.
You know cause, I think betweenbroken arrow and Tepic I ran

(28:44):
about 12 miles total.
Jesus, I mean, I, I biked some,um, but yeah, I ran six miles
one day, six miles and somestrides the day before the race.
And then I got on the startline and I was like, well, I'm
here, we're just going to seewhat happens.
But yeah, I was really proud tohave that happen, especially at

(29:06):
that particular race.
Out of all of the golden trailraces I've been to so far, that
event and that community broughtthe most, the most energy, like
the most passion, the mostexcitement that I've experienced
.
And you know, in an atmospherelike that, how can you not

(29:29):
perform?
You know, like, how can you notwant to bring your best?
Because you just feel sosupported by people who you know
I mean, I guess they kind ofknew who we were but, like you
know, basically strangers arestill making you feel so
supported, like that's a special, that's a special feeling.
What?

Speaker 1 (29:45):
did they?

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh, I'm sorry, no, they brought it there.
That's all I was going to say.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
What did you?
I'm a yapper, oh no, no, you'regood, you're good, I'm
listening, I'm listening.
What did you think of thecourse?
Like I saw some like photos oflike Lauren Gregory, I think,
falling all over the place andlike other people falling.
Like what did you?
Was it slick or like?
What was the deal there?

Speaker 2 (30:04):
I would call it enjoyably technical.
It had so.
Pretty much every day leadingup until the race it had rained
for some, if not the whole day,so some areas were pretty muddy
or some were just slippery, andespecially some of the downhills
were quite technical.
So if you're an amazingtechnical downhiller who just

(30:28):
sends it like Lauren, somespills were inevitable.
I think, yeah, I need her toput on a downhill clinic for me
to attend.
She's a beast.
But yeah, it was honestly, Ithought it was a very well
balanced course.
There were some areas where youcould get into a really great
flow, whether it was climbing ordescending, or relatively flat

(30:54):
or relatively flat, and thenthere were also some areas that
were a technical challenge andthen kind of everything in
between.
I liked that a lot.
I think variability keeps acourse fresh and it also, you
know, depending on where you are, plays to the strengths of
various athletes and I thinkthat you know that leaves the
race open to anybody.
And, yeah, I enjoyed it.
And I think races like that forme are a really excellent

(31:15):
learning opportunity, because itshows me where I'm strong and
it shows me where I need to workon, um, and both of those
things are really invaluablewhen it comes to preparing for
future races.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
So really, liked that I got to give you your your
kudos to like just being able tobounce back.
I feel like cause broken arrowwas just like hit or miss for so
many people that I feel likethat could mess with people's,
like just mess with your head alot, especially going into a
race the following week.
It's like one of those mentalspaces where it's either okay, I
can brush this one off and gointo it with low expectations,

(31:45):
or you know just seeing whathappens, or some people, like
are very self-defeated and, just, you know, think themselves as
being out of it.
So being able to kind of clawyour way back and have an
amazing performance like that'sI got to give you your flowers
for that it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
I mean.
I think, honestly, clawing myway back has been the theme of
my athletic career.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Blue collar.
Like working, I like it, I digit, it's cool.
Thank you, I can ask you aboutlike Mexico.
Did you?
Did you guys like hang out,enjoy, like the food and
everything, and like the culture?
I mean like it's one of the Ilove Mexico, it's like one of my
favorite places to visit.
Like what?
What did you think?

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Oh, it was awesome.
Yeah, it was wonderful.
Like I said, I want to give amajor shout out to, like, the
whole Salomon Mexico team, um,and the Tepec trail team.
Like they, they created anamazing event.
Um, they did a phenomenal jobwith logistics and, you know,
with course marking.

(32:42):
Like it was a pretty remotecourse and I was never worried
about being lost.
Um, the support at aid stationswas amazing.
But, yeah, outside of the race,um, we were eating home cooked
meals every day.
Um, one of the hotels, umhosted meals and it was just
this wonderful group of women inthe kitchen who just, you know,
were whipping.
I don't, I don't, honestly, I'mnot sure what half of what we

(33:04):
ate was, but it was delicious,um, and it was great to just get
that authentic flavor in theculture.
Um, unfortunately, lauren and Igot there a little bit late to
do some of the culturalactivities that some of the
other athletes got to.
Um, sad about that, cause itlooked awesome.
Um, we did get to explore thedowntown of Huasca del Campo a

(33:25):
little bit.
That was really neat, um, andthen, after the race, uh, the,
the racing community, were kindenough to host a party for us,
so they had a live band and theyhad people making food from
scratch right there in front ofus.
So same thing, just moredelicious homemade food and

(33:46):
listening to, you know, livemusic.
And we actually got to do sometraditional dances.
I can't say I'm a very gooddancer, but I tried, put in the
effort.
But, yeah, getting to take partin that was very special.
And I also want to give a shoutout this was the first time

(34:08):
that I was involved in the topathlete proceedings.
So the first time I got to be inthe athlete presentation, um,
and the poster signing and allof that and getting to meet the
community and the other athletesracing was amazing, um, you
know, people were so excited tomeet us and like, compared to

(34:30):
some of the other athletes there, I am kind of a no name and
like I you know I was sittingnext to Joyce, you know, on the
autograph signing line.
You know I'm not expecting muchand the fact that people still
wanted to talk to me and takepictures with me and they still
wanted my signature on their hatand things like that just made
me feel so special and soappreciative for how passionate

(34:53):
they were about the sport.
So special and so appreciativefor how passionate they were
about the sport and it's just areminder of like that's what's
so amazing about the trailcommunity and you know, the
people there just exemplifiedthat completely.
Such a cool, yeah, so cool.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
It is so cool, like, and it's crazy Cause, like I
think people forget that likeit's a global sport, like
there's fans everywhere andpeople really follow the golden
trail series, like it's.
It's like worldwide, like it'sit's kind of a phenomenon and
growing.
Um, what would you say as faras like, like the Mexican
culture and like that?

Speaker 2 (35:25):
um, just the fan bases there are a lot of fans
there and people that want toknow these athletes.
Oh my gosh, yeah, huge Um.
And, like I said, I'm, you know, I'm still relatively new to
being in even any remote kind ofspotlight, you know.
So I don't know how thiscompares to the experiences of
other athletes who, you know,are kind of known everywhere
they go, racing at the venue andthe spectators and everything.

(35:57):
They were so excited to hostthat event, um, and for us to be
a part of it.
I think you know, even justwalking around the venue after
the race, like I just I went fora short walk, that was my cool
down, um, and the amount oftimes that I was stopped just to
to take photos and to signthings, even after the race,
like you know, and I, I, Ididn't win and I'm pretty sure
people knew I wasn't lauren um,um, you know, the fact that

(36:23):
people were still just excitedthat I was any part of that was
just so special.
Um, and yeah, getting to seethe energy that people had at
the aid stations and these crazyremote places on the course
where I'm like I don't even knowhow you got there to spectate,
but somehow you're there andyou're cheering, like that is
amazing and that is passion, andeven some of the folks working

(36:50):
at the hotels that we stayed at,you know, they made it very
clear that they were excited tobe a part of this event and they
were happy to have us.
There was one man, I think heworked at the host hotel and he
had all the athletes sign hist-shirt before we checked out
and it's like I don't know, justto be able to feel so welcomed

(37:11):
into the community, even justfor a weekend, was really
special, um, and yeah, theathlete signing.
There were a few folks who, um,brought like goodie bags of
gifts for every athlete, um, andI have no idea if that's
typical or not, but nothing likethat has ever happened to me
before.
It was a little bag oftraditional mexican like treats

(37:31):
and candy and like that was sothoughtful.
And another woman was gave useach a little pack of either
like Mexico earrings or a pin.
And if you, if there's anypodium pictures out there, I'm
wearing the pin on my t-shirtwhen I'm on the podium, just
because it's like you welcomedus and I'm thankful to be here

(37:53):
with you.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
What a cool sport.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
It's the best sport on earth.
Oh, my gosh right yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
It's amazing.
I want to rewind a little bitand I feel like we can close the
book on Mexico.
I feel like we got everythingfrom that, but I want to talk
about your injury, your glutemead.
When did you tear it?
And then how long was it beforeyou tore it to get the broken
arrow?
When you started trying tofigure things out?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, so I tore it at the very end of April.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Okay, so close, that's so close.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, not too far off , and we didn't know for a while
what it was, because it wasn'ta kind of trauma event that tore
it.
A kind of trauma event thattore it.
This is so sad to admit, but Iirritated it doing booty blaster
glute work with Lauren andAllie and I made the mistake I

(38:47):
was using a black band when Ishould not have been.
I just didn't think anything ofit because I was like we do
glute work all the time Likenothing happened.
You know, it's the lowest riskthing you can do when you're
used to running up and downmountains.
And a couple days later I juststarted to get a lot of kind of
pain in that like hip area.
And you know we're runners Ifsomething hurts, you kind of see

(39:08):
if you can run through it first.
Um, and rather than see if Icould run through it doing
something light or easy, Idecided to see if I could run
through it, um, tempoing Sanitasloop, uh, and then running 10
more miles, oh God.
Um it had a 16 mile long runwith um 30 minutes of like hard

(39:30):
trail work.
Um, and you know that is on mefor not listening to my body
when it told me that morning Iprobably shouldn't have done
that and that's where the tearoccurred.
Um, like during the run itwasn't as bad, but I think I
kind of realized after the factlike that was a mistake.
Um, and you know it was kind ofone of those things where it

(39:55):
feels like it's soft tissue butit's in a very high risk area.
So we had a lot of concern.
I'm like, okay, is this mylabrum?
Is this my femoral neck?
Is this my pelvis?
It was even radiating so farthat I was like, is this my
sacrum?
Just because I was having painfrom my hip flexor all the way
around the side of my hip intomy glute and all the way up
against the side of my sacrum.

(40:16):
So there's so many things thatthis could be.
So I eventually got an MRI andthat confirmed that it was just
like a partial tear of the glutemed.
So that was actually acelebratory moment because that
was the first time I've evergotten an MRI that wasn't a
stress fracture.
So claps for that I think Iexcitedly texted my group chat
with my training partners sayingmy MRI was clean, my butt's

(40:39):
torn, but it's nothing.
Nothing's broken.
So that you know that's kind ofbest case scenario.
Um, the unfortunate side to thatwas, yeah, I had, I want to say
, four failed return totrainings.
Um, like, if you went to lookat my Strava it would look like
an EKG.
It's just up down, up down.
You know where.
I would try to come back, havea few good days.

(41:00):
It would flare up again.
I would have to take more daysoff.
You know, every time I wouldthink that I'm back, it's better
, I've made it a few days, youknow I've made it almost a week.
It would just kind of send mebackwards again, um, so, leading
up to broken arrow, I had onefull week of training the week

(41:22):
before where I was able to runmy full six days.
Half of them were on theincline treadmill, but that's
still running, um, and yeah, Idid that.
You know very good preparationof a 12 mile long run.
Um, and then I had the week ofbroken arrow.
Um, and that was the onlyconsistent running that I did
going into that race and youknow it showed out there I knew

(41:46):
I wasn't running, yeah, but likeI gotta give you like kudos for
even lining up at broken arrow.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Like I went through this with like like something
very similar and I just want tojust say to hell with it and
just raced because it was ashort race.
I raced cirque serieskillington.
It's only an eight mile race,but like to go around a 29 mile
race off of like that, like holyshit, like were you, did you
have your doubts?
Like were you even, like wereyou not going to do it and
decided to last second, or likehow did that?

(42:10):
Are you like always?
Like always, I'm going to dothis.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I had it in my mind that I was going to make it to
that start line under anycircumstance, except, like, the
concrete knowledge that Icouldn't or shouldn't.
Um and I mean full disclosure,like I had, I had an exit
strategy in place with my coach,david.

(42:35):
Um, in case you know, what do Ido if this happens.
What do I do if that happens?
And I had it planned out likehere are the different places on
the course where I could safelystop and make it back down.
You know, here's where it'd besafe for me to pull out if I
have to.
Here's what I do if I getsudden pain, like here's how
much I can try and run throughit versus when, to call it.

(42:56):
So I mean, I went into that raceknowing I was going to give it
my best shot, but I also went inknowing it wasn't worth
sacrificing the rest of myseason.
And you know, that week, goinginto the race, had I felt like
there was a higher chance ofre-injury than there was of me
finishing, I wouldn't have raced.

(43:18):
But I think it had gotten tothe point where I believe that I
at least had a chance.
And you know, that was my onlyshot at the world's team, and so
I felt that I was doing myselfa disservice if I didn't try.
And you know I was fullyprepared to, um, and you know I
was fully prepared to if itlooked like I had to pull out.

(43:39):
But fortunately I didn't.
And you know, if there's onepositive thing I could take away
from that race, it's that I didnot re-injure myself, yeah, um,
and it made me feel a lot moreconfident going forward because
I'm like, well, if that didn'tre-injure it, you're good.
I'm probably good.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, At least that's .
That's athlete math, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Well, if I could do that, I can do less than that
and not get hurt.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Right, it's funny how I don't know like, we go
through every it's the like, thewhole mental process, like,
well, if I could do this, I cando that.
Let's, let's see what happens.
Yeah no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
While I've raced a lot of sub ultra and I still got
a little bit of leg speed in me, I have felt like my sub ultra
racing.
I don't think I found myraracing.
I don't think I've found mygroove yet.
I don't think I've had a singlekind of traditional sub-ultra
race that has felt like right tome.

(45:10):
Here's my hot take philosophyokay, the classic distance up to
about 20, 25k, that's the 1500at the trail world yeah like you
know, and the people that havethe track background and not all
of them, but like a lot of themthat you see thriving at that
distance, are the people who are1500 runners, who were steeple
chasers, who were, you know,maybe they dabbled in the 5k,

(45:31):
but they were 5k, 15 and not 5k10k.
It's obviously not a hard andfast rule, but it's something
that I have noticed, you know,um, because when I raced my
first 50k, the first thing Isaid when I was asked that I was
like that was a technical 10k,that was a five hour technical
10k, um, and I felt likedebuting in that distance, that

(45:52):
first one in thailand, that feltbetter to me than any sub ultra
race I had done before.
That moment.
Interesting, that's a good take.
Yeah, I never.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
well, I know steeplers do very well, like we
all know.
Like steeplers, for some reasonit just clicks.
The mountain classic distancejust seems to like your Allie
Max or Lauren's like people likethat, like seem to perform very
well.
I never thought about it likethat, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, I'm going to get flamed for that, I'm sure.
No, I don't think so.
I think it's.
I believe what I believe.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
No, I think a lot of people would agree with it
though, Cause, like this issomething I bring up a lot on
the podcast is why doessteeplers perform?
I literally just had thisconversation yesterday with
Alexa Aragon.
It was like why does steeplersdo so well, like on the trails?
So yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, and you know, call that like 25 to 35K range,
call that the 5K.
That's my take.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Wow.
So where do you see?
Obviously you're going to dosome more Golden Trail Series
races.
Obviously, series Zanall is nota short race, it's a pretty
long one.
It's funny people don't reallyknow it goes from a place called
Siri to a town called Zanall.
Nobody gets that.
I don't know Pretty cool.
Crazy how that's named.
It's crazy how it works outright.
But like, do you see yourselfmore trending in that 50K and up

(47:03):
distance?
Or like, where do you, where doyou find your sweet spot, kind
of going forward in your career?

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, um, I don't see myself going significantly
longer than the 50K as of yet,just because I'm not quite ready
to let go of those shorterdistances and I'm not quite
ready to let go of my leg speedand I know it wouldn't disappear
forever.
But I think you know, once youtrend upward far enough, it's a
lot harder to kind of recoverthose speed legs.

(47:29):
I don't think I'll do track and50k training in the same year,
but I do foresee myself at somepoint going back to track or at
least to like the road 10k, um.
So I don't feel ready to makethat transition upwards past 50k
quite yet.
So I think for now, um, yeah,sub ultra to you know, occ is

(47:50):
about the range I'm looking for.
Um, I think also with sub ultrabecause I haven't been satisfied
with any of those races yet.
That shows me that I have apretty large margin for
improvement and that's somethingI want to chase If I feel like,
hey, I have a shot at doingsignificantly better here.
I don't found the rightcombination of you know strategy

(48:11):
of fueling, of maybe trainingthings like that.
I'm like, okay, there arethings I can refine to improve
at this distance and I'm notgoing to give up on that until I
feel like I've actually kind ofexhausted my potential there

(48:32):
Plus.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
So interesting.
Sorry, sorry, no, no Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
No, sorry, no, no, go ahead, no, you, you first.
Oh, thanks, I was just going tosay, you know, especially the
longer distances will still bethere.
You know, I think it's prettywell known to everybody that you
know, being older onlyincreases your competitiveness
in those longer events.
It's like the 100K, the 100mile that's going to be there
for me, you know, like that's.

(48:56):
My ability to compete in thoseevents isn't, is only going to
increase from here.
Um, so I'm not in a rush to getthere, I'll get there when I
get there.
You know, maybe I'll be eatingmy words in two years, depending
on what I go for in the worldcycle.
Um, but you know, as it standsright now, I think I still have
room for improvement, both insub ultra and the 50k.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
And you know, I want to focus there and see what can
happen, and I think you're smartto do it.
I don't know what it is withthe American scene, but there's
always this push to move up indistance where it's like,
especially as a sub ultra guyand someone that covers sub
ultra, yeah, I hate even callingit sub ultra.
No, no, williams actuallycorrected me on this recently.
We're talking about it and he'slike it's mountain running.
In europe they just call itmountain running and that's what
it is.
I was like, dude, you're right,um, but anyway, that's a
different conversation.
I, I don't know.

(49:43):
I just I don't know why us, asamericans, always want to move
up into these like crazier,longer distances where it's like
so much more competitive, likedown in the lower, like mountain
classics and this golden trailstuff like that, it's so much
more competitive.
And then when you move up,obviously like the fields thin
out a little bit when you get tothe you know the longer
distances, um, but like up untilthe 50k, like you know, that's

(50:03):
where the fields are at and it'sa hard thing to learn like.
I feel like it's.
It's there's a lot of a biglearning curve, like it takes a
couple years, if not more.
I feel like to figure out, like, for instance, like I did the
circ series, the whole circuityear, and I'll hopefully do more
this year, but like justfiguring out how to like assert
yourself into the race in thebeginning, because if you don't,
you're, you're, it's gone foryou.
So and it's essentially like atrack meet in a lot of ways

(50:26):
where, yeah, like you're, if youdon't put yourself in the grace
right away, it's over.
So, yeah, I think there's asubstantial learning curve in a
lot of ways to these mountainclassics and things like that.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, I think there.
You know there's a lot oflearning to do when you're
running at what feels like, youknow what feels like a track
effort, what feels like a 3k ora 5k type effort, but then doing
it for two hours, and a goodportion of that two hours is
running 10 minute pace give ortake, and it still feels like
the hardest thing you've everdone.
You know there's a lot of bothmental and physical relearning

(51:01):
that comes with racing like that.
And you know, to an extent Ithink it might have hampered my
transition to jump so quicklyand aggressively into pretty
much exclusively very highcompetition races.
I mean pretty much everything Idid last year was, you know, a
broken arrow, was a golden trail, was a UTMB world major.

(51:23):
You know I didn't give myself alot of opportunity to do races
where I was going to inherentlybe more in the race.
So I just had a lot ofexperiences Like what you were
saying was I'm out of the raceby 5k in because I can't hang on
to Joyce and Madalena and.

(51:43):
Lauren, you know, and it wasthis mental relearning of okay,
how do I race like this and howdo I stay competitive, while
also like just learning what todo you know Um so, like I've
been trail running my whole life, I've been trail running, you
know, since I was six years old.
I did my first trail race.
The same year I did my first 5k.
Um, but it's a really bigdifference just trail running

(52:07):
and hopping into your localtrail race versus getting on the
line at golden trail night andday, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
It's so funny Like I I messed with my it's a shout
out to my brother-in-law Like helives in upstate New York and
he runs a lot of these likelocal races and he like wins a
lot of them.
Like dude, go run somethingcompetitive, like like let's,
let's see what.
You know, I think people getlike the misunderstanding of
just like how like the pointy,how fast it really is, and these
are real like professionalathletes and like these are.

(52:38):
You know, it's no joke.
Like these athletes can beprofessional at many other
things as well.
It's not just trail running.
So yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Yeah, like many of these athletes you could, you
know, some of them have a reallystrong road background, which I
was not that surprised to findout.
But you know, hearing like youcould put this athlete in a road
marathon and they would stillbe quite dominant.
I mean, I think it's mostapparent with you know, this
crop of american women who mentoo, but, like you know, part of

(53:07):
a large group of american womenaround my age, give or take a
couple years, who have made thetransition from ncaa and still,
you know, step foot on the road,step foot on the track, you
step foot on the track.
You see, like this is anathlete who can be dominant at
anything she does like that, youknow, I think needs more
recognition beyond just one ofthose disciplines.

(53:31):
Um yeah, and I could just showshow strong the, yeah, the the
field is in at the top of trail.
Um, and yeah, not to disparageanybody who predominantly runs
local trail no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Do your thing, you know you probably win more prize
money than I do.
But I just think people don'trealize like it's sometimes,
like just how like it's it's,it's, it's not a joke like it's,
it's like it's not like peoplearen't just jogging around in
the woods anymore.
It's like you know when Likeit's.
It's like it's not like peoplearen't just jogging around in
the woods anymore.
It's like you know, when youhave, yeah, and it's just
interesting Like we have seen alot of it like yourself, dude,
anna Gibson, lauren Gregory,like there's so many amazing at

(54:06):
like women that you know do thetrack trail thing and it's like
they crush it.
But I think Madalena Floria Ican't remember what her marathon
time is, but she's a legitmarathoner Like there's, yeah,
it's.
It's crazy how deep like um,yeah, the women's fields have
just gotten crazy in the lastfew years, which is kind of cool
.
Like the, uh, just the.
The depth is deep now, which iswild.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
It's cool I've been the fact that I wish I would've
gotten here like a year or twosooner, but cause I?
Yeah, I just feel like havinghaving my kind of transition and
learning years at such acompetitive time has been a
little bit tough, but it's alsoit's like, well, this is the
most competitive historicallythat the sport has ever been,
and so it's like you can't gettoo down on yourself.

(54:48):
You know, to make honestly, tomake myself feel better about
Broken Arrow, I went back andlooked at how my time would fare
on other years, just to kind oflike not cry in the shower more
than once, um, even though Igave myself, I gave myself one.
You get one cry in the shower,um, and then after that, we, we
move on uh fair enough.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Um, and what was the time?
I'm sure you would top 10, topfive time, and any other one
place I would have been lastyear.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Let's hear it.
I think third or fourth.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
See, there you go, Most competitive 50 K at
probably ever on American soil,which is is bananas.
So yeah.
Yeah, do you have unfinishedbusiness broken air?
I know you've raced there a fewtimes now.
You think you'll go back nextyear.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, none of my races have been what I wanted
them to be.
Um, I think I, yeah, I'veraised, I guess, yeah, I've
raised a VK 23K and 46K now.
Um, and I wasn't that happywith any of those.
Um, it's definitely unfinishedbusiness, you know, and it's
also it's an iconic event.
Um, it's a very well run event.
Sorry, excuse me, um, likeBrendan does a phenomenal job.

(55:54):
Um, and you know it's alwaysgoing to hold a complicated
place in my heart because, youknow, it was kind of the first
kick in the ribs jumping intothe trail world and realizing
that it was going to be a hardertransition than I thought.
But at the same time, it wasalso my first kind of real deep,

(56:15):
competitive trail race that Iever did, um, you know.
So it's like I'm going to goback to it as much as I can.
You know what I do next year?
I'm not sure, probably probably46.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
K redemption time.
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
One of these days I'll do the.
I'll do the triple.
That'll be cool, Okay.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Okay, triple's dope.
I don't know how people do it.
That's so many laps like that's.
That's, that's three laps morethan I really want to do around
that thing like that's I don'tknow what you mean.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Three laps, that's not a lot of laps right, that's
so many.
My track brain says it's onlythree laps especially like it's.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Yeah, it's a hard course to nail too.
It's funny, like I.
You see people come back everyyear trying to figure it out and
some people like have madetheir careers off of it and had
immense success.
Like it's, it's definitely oneof the most premier and has
become like the premier mountainrace in the united states and
like you know the ruts up thereas well.
But I think just what brokenarrow has been able to do and
brandon with them like just yeah, it's crazy.

(57:08):
I want to pivot a little bit.
I ask you a boulder question.
Like boulder is like so I livein the springs and it's like
we've got this like really gooddichotomy of like elite runners
and like there's not that manyof them, but we're there, we're
here like there's, it's, it'snice, it's good training ground,
but like boulder's saturated,there's a lot of people doing a
lot of epic shit.
Is it hard?

(57:29):
Is it like, do you put pressureon yourself living in a place
like that, or is it?
Is it easy?
Like I know there's alwayssomebody to get out with, but
like being injured, it's gottabe difficult.
Like how, how does, how doeshow?
Do you balance that, if youwill?

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Yeah, I mean honestly , coming from the college
environment, being here is wayless pressure, honestly.
Um, just because you know I'm,I'm not part of a team anymore.
Um, so you know, I, I havefriends and I have training
partners and you know, can'm,I'm not part of a team anymore.
So you know, I, I have friendsand I have training partners and
, you know, can hardly goanywhere without running into at
least one person.
You know, right.

(58:03):
But I feel like, because it'sno longer that team environment
of you meet up with the samepeople every day at the same
time and you're doing the samethings, that to me is just a
more inherently comparativeenvironment, whereas here, you
know, like my primary trainingpartners are Lauren and Allie
and we're well, even if we'retraining for the same events,

(58:26):
we're not always doing the exactsame training.
You know, allie and I are bothcoached by David and Lauren is
coached separately.
So just by that nature we'renot going to line up.
And then you know, allie and Ioften have kind of different
leanings in up.
And then you know, allie and Ioften have kind of different
leanings in terms of distances,and you know she's doing track
right now and I'm not, so Ithink it feels less pressured

(58:47):
and less of a comparison gamebecause, at least for me, I'm
not doing the same thing asanybody else.
So how can I compare myself?
You know, sometimes I have totake a little bit of a break
from Strava and just not look atwhat other people are doing,
because I think that sometimescan have the tendency to make
you feel bad about what you'redoing If you perceive someone
else's training as superior.

(59:09):
When I say superior, I don'tmean like better coach, but I
just mean like, oh, her workoutwas better than mine today, so
she must be in better shape.
And I'm like Sarah, you did atrail workout with 45 minutes of
workout volume.
Somebody else did a trackworkout of speed reps.
Why are you comparing that?
There is no comparing that, youknow.

(59:29):
Yeah, no, no, yeah, your pacewas slower, so what?
But you did something entirelydifferent.
So I think that for me has beenhonestly really good mentally.
And I, you know, I've onlylived here for a year.
I moved here for the communityand that was more than worth it.

(59:51):
You know I loved my time inFort Collins, but I think it
just would have been a littlebit tougher post-collegiately
having what I was looking fortraining wise.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Oh, it makes sense, I got to ask you, like training
with Lauren and Allie, like two.
You know crushers, everybody'sgot their own like there's, they
have strengths, you havestrengths.
Is is like how, what is it likelike running with them and
training with them, like as asfriends and peers, and and you
know competitors at points likehow, how does that mix?

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Oh, it's so fun.
Um yeah, I mean, we mostly justdo easy days together, um,
because very rarely do ourworkouts ever align, you know,
and sometimes the closest is weall go to the same place and do
separate workouts, um, so Ithink in that way, you know,
there's not really this feelingof competitiveness between us.

(01:00:40):
um, you know, I think I don'twant to sell myself short, but
I'm also very aware of the factthat you know I am, I'm the, I'm
the least known and I'm theleast, at this point,
accomplished of the three of us,but I don't really like, I
wouldn't look at it like that atall, like it's I mean, but I

(01:01:01):
don't, I don't have that get tome, because it's just like the
best way to get better is totrain with people who are better
than you, um, and if anythinglike that's inspirational to me,
like getting to be aroundpeople who've, you know,
accomplished things that are,you know, hopefully, future
goals for me, like that'sinspiring.
You know that, accomplishthings that are, you know,
hopefully, future goals for meLike that's inspiring, you know

(01:01:21):
that's cool, um, and I feel likekind of honored and flattered
that I get to be part of thatgroup, you know, and amazing,
like amazing human beings, um,and we have so much fun and we
just yap it up for miles at atime, um, you know, and did.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
You guys should start a podcast, the three of you
that would be.
That would be cool.
Oh, we should.
There's an idea.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Well, I'm actually at Allie's house right now, so
I'll tell her when I go upstairs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yeah, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
We should start a podcast.
That would be.
That'd be a great time.
So you've had some YouTubevideos together and those are a
hoot, um, but yeah, it's, it's alot of fun.
I feel really lucky to kind ofhave fallen in with this group
and there's other folks I uhmeet up with me, up and run with
too, and they're awesome.
Um, and you know, sometimes,like honestly, the hardest part

(01:02:10):
for me is, um, working outsideof running.
I think, you know, balancingthat with every other little
piece that goes into being aprofessional athlete is probably
the most difficult part.
You know, I've spent prettymuch the entire day on my feet.
That's really hard withrecovery, you know, and those

(01:02:50):
those are, I think, are thebigger challenges compared to
kind of being surrounded byelite people, cause that's just
inspiring, yeah, yeah, you'reonly going to get better.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Like that's exactly's just inspiring, yeah, yeah,
you're only going to get better.
Like that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
It's like it's only going to help me improve um, and
you know, fighting the impostersyndrome is kind of real
sometimes.
But you know, I think that'spart of kind of just jumping
headfirst into this world ofprofessional running like
there's always going to besomebody who is better than you
and it's no use in looking downon yourself, you just have to

(01:03:20):
look forward, at where you'regoing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Yeah, it's all progression.
It's all just like how good canI make myself, how much?

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
can I?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
improve every day, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Yeah, Like what can I learn from the people that I'm
around?
You know how can we help eachother?

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
How do you, how do you like, working with David?
You, how do you like workingwith David?
I'd love David Like he's,david's, like the.
He's a character.
Um, I think he coaches likeevery person I've ever had on
the podcast, which is also kindof funny.
Like what um like, how do youlike like all the stuff that he
does and like his workouts thathe gives you and stuff like that
.
Like the program, like how's itlike working with him?

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Oh, it's great.
Yeah, I mean I think it waslike the best possible
transition out of collegebecause you get daily
interaction with him, cause youknow I'm so used to the
environment of my coach sees meevery day, my coach talks to me
every day.
There's, you know, just kind ofconstant back and forth and
feedback and interaction.
Obviously, unless you're partof a pro group that also has an

(01:04:13):
in-person coach.
That's just not possibleanymore.
And David is really the nextbest thing.
You know like he givesmeaningful and constructive and
honestly like really hypefeedback you know and that helps
build confidence in what I'mdoing, even though a lot of what

(01:04:34):
I do is kind of a solo effortwith very little to compare it
to.
So you know, I'm used to anumbers-based world, I'm used to
paces and, um, you know,specifically distanced reps.
I'm used to this very numerical, very objective world, and so
sometimes, as an athlete jumpinginto trail training, it's
harder to find satisfaction inwhat I do, and David is really

(01:04:58):
good about letting me know, like, the value of what I've done.
Um, yeah, and he, oh boy doeshe give some doozies of workouts
, and I mean that in the bestway.
It's awesome.
That's why you guys are allreally good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
He makes you guys better.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
It's it's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
It's funny when he writes stuff like on Instagram
or whatnot, like I read it inhis voice, Like I think of like
him actually say like and I canimagine, like when you guys with
a training sheet, like I couldjust imagine like that's how
David's like talking about Idon't know, that's kind of funny
.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Yes, a hundred percent, like the caps, the
exclamation points, all of it.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
That is.
That is exactly what hiswritten feedback looks, looks
like.
But yeah, it's been great.
It's definitely.
You know, learning an entirelynew style of training to match
an entirely new style ofcompeting has come with its ups
and downs, but I think, you know, david has been very

(01:05:47):
communicative as to here's whatwe're doing, here's why we're
doing it, here are themechanisms behind this, here are
the adaptations that it's goingto help you have.
You know, he's helped me dialmy in race nutrition.
He's given me suggestions whenI've asked whether it be for
medical professionals, whetherit be, you know, for fueling, um
, all of that.
And yeah, it's just, it's beena very positive experience.

(01:06:12):
Um, and you know, I don't everhave to doubt whether or not he
believes in me.
Um, because he does.
And having a coach who just isintrinsically in your corner
means a lot, especially with mybackground, because I think, you
know, the hardest thing for mewould be to be back in the place

(01:06:34):
of doubting whether my coachthinks I'm worth it or not.
And you know, even though Davidhas a million and one things on
his plate with, with the kiddos, you know, his whole family,
his own training and racing andtraveling, the hundreds of
athletes that he works with, hispodcast, all of that, like he
still finds the time to make mefeel valued and that goes a

(01:06:58):
really long way, big time Ithink that's part of the secrets
is his success, like in a lotof ways, is just making everyone
feel like when he's talking toyou, he just makes everyone feel
very special.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
He's a good coach, super cool.
Where are we at?
We're about an hour.
All right, I'm going to endwith some questions.
I'm very curious.
I decided to bring these back.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
I got away from them for a while and then I started
bringing them back.
I'm curious to see who inspiresyou.
Oh, that's a great question.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Well, I can start by giving you my two um my two
childhood role models.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
They're both named steve, steve and steve, yeah, um
, erwin and prefontaine uh, youknow, one I think is the typical
runner role model, um, and theother, you know, I've I've been
a snake and lizard kid from dayone, um, but more than that,
like it's just one of thosepeople that I guess they're both
people that were just very,very full of life and they did

(01:08:07):
what they were passionate about,and sometimes it was pretty and
sometimes it wasn't, but theylived to the fullest.
And I think you know, that'ssomething that I've tried to do
is it's like a lot of parts ofthis journey have really not
been pretty at all, like they'vebeen messy and heartbreaking
and difficult, um, you know, andjust taking all of that and

(01:08:31):
just knowing that it's kind ofit's part of the beauty of the
whole picture.
Um, that's big and yeah, and interms of I mean, this is going
to be such a cliche answer Ihope she's listening upstairs,
allie inspires me a lot actually, you know, I think to have the
spotlight on you from such ayoung age and to be faced with
so many expectations of yourabilities and to struggle so

(01:08:52):
much physically and mentally andemotionally and to come out the
other side even better thanbefore.
There's not a lot of people,there's not a lot of personality
, there's not a lot of spiritsthat could do that.
Um, and getting to be so closewith somebody who has
accomplished so much in spite ofso much is a really inspiring

(01:09:14):
thing.
Um, you know, and I again, beingpart of the college circuit,
I've known a lot of people whohave struggled a lot and who
have suffered a lot, sometimescompletely in silence and
sometimes with more of outwardexpression.
But either way, getting towatch people go through hard

(01:09:38):
things and, yeah, come out theother side stronger, whether
it's stronger in running orstronger as a person or stronger
in their convictions about, youknow, some aspect of their life
Like that's inspiring to me,like that's special, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
That's a good answer.
That's a good one.
Thanks, I'm going to end onthat one, cause that one, that
one, that was too too good, toogood of an answer to like pass
on although I gotta say ally isdefinitely inspiring a big shout
out.
It's big steve irwin fan, alsoa big steve irwin fan yeah, yeah
.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
I wanted to be crocodile hunter when I grew up.
That was my first.
That was my first childhooddream.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Then I switched to running I wanted to be a marine
biologist and I was like likethe biggest like fan of steve's
yeah, it's a whole differentpodcast.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
But um, we can do that podcast too.
I can bring snakes.
There we go, you know, oh man,like I still remember when I
still remember where I was.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
When I found out steve passed, I was so upset.
I think I was in.
Maybe I was like in the eighthgrade or a freshman in high
school.
I was young, I was it was along long ago and far away, but
yeah, yeah, big steve fan.
Yeah, I was like I was lookingfor the crocodile hunter on
discovery plus the other day andI couldn't find it.
It was a little upset.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
It's not there.
Well, I guess I don't havediscovery plus, but I would love
to watch it again, and that waslike I didn't watch a lot of TV
growing up, but that was theone.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Oh, crocodile hunter.
Yeah, wild man Just chasing,jumping on crocodiles, cool
stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Yeah, I used to go like flip over boards along the
bike path um you was growing upto try and find uh, reptiles and
amphibians and did the voicelike crikey, and you grew up in
arizona, so like you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
I mean there's probably rattlesnakes all over
the place, right?

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
yeah yeah, I had a few skins in our garage that's
crazy went scorpion hunting withum like the uv lights because
they did the luminesce um.
That was pretty cool.
So I had a pet tarantulagrowing up.
That was awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Dude, I'm terrified of spiders.
No way.
I found a wolf spider the otherday in my house and cried like
a baby oh, cool, as long as it'snot a black widow or a brown
recluse.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
You're fine.
I grew up in Florida, so likewe had- oh, you got the nasty
critters.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
That's yeah and it's.
It's not not a better one, byany means.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
That, that, that that's a fair point.
I've seen some videos of ofFlorida critters and like Ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
I've seen a couple of gators working at a running
camp down there and I was like,oh, that's nice Gators are cool
Gators aren't bad, it's the likeeverything else Like yeah, like
snakes, like just crazy amountof like we have like water
moccasins and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Yeah, coral.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Coral snakes aren't bad.
I've seen a few of those, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
At least they're visible, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Yeah, yeah, a little bright.
Yeah, I'm trying to think likeI was always in the ocean, like
diving.
I got to have a bunch, but likenot a lot of sharks, not so fun
.
Yeah, not a lot of.
Really appreciate it.
This was a great conversation.
Wish you the best of luck onyour Euro trip.
It's going to be pretty rad.
When do you leave?
Pretty soon 28th Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Yeah, so speaking to Sydney, sydney, taylor and I are
all traveling together, nice.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
So it's going to be a big third wheel trip for Sarah.
My boyfriend can't go and gethimself healthy yet to race, but
hopefully soon.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Fair enough Fair enough.
Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed forthat Cool.
Well, listen.
Thank you so much and I'll getthis out in the next couple of
days.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Awesome.
Yeah, thank you, I reallyappreciate it, and have a good
rest of your week.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Yeah, you too.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a great episode.
I want to thank Sarah so muchfor coming on the podcast.
Like I said, this was a greatconversation and I just really
appreciate that she was being,you know, just being candid and
being open, telling your story.
Um, you know, I think a lot ofthe audience can probably take
away just you know, uh, I thinkthere's a lot of stories of,
like, perseverance there andgrit, and just, uh, being
focused on one goal and beingable to continuously, like,

(01:13:10):
pursue it, um, with greatenthusiasm.
I think that there's there's alot to take away from that, no
matter what walk of or stage oflife that you're in, um, or how
you pursue athletics.
So really appreciate Sarah for,uh, for coming on.
So, guys, before you get going,you can find Sarah on Instagram
.
You can find her at Sarah,underscore Carter, underscore XC
.
That's Sarah S A R A Hunderscore Carter.

(01:13:32):
C A R T E R underscore XC.
Give her a follow, let her knowwhat you guys thought about the
episode and send her some wordsof encouragement as she takes
on some big, crazy goals for therest of her summer.
And some more golden treasure,golden trail series, racing.
Guys, if you enjoyed thisepisode.
Also, wherever you consume yourpodcast, whether that be Spotify

(01:13:53):
, apple, youtube or a place Idon't even know please give us a
five-star rating and review.
That would mean an absolute tonand, yeah, super appreciative.
We've got some good stuffcoming out.
We've got a fun collaborationwith the sub hub coming out in
the next few weeks.
That, I think, is going to bereally fun.
I think you guys will take alot of excitement away, or take
a lot of excitement.
You'll be excited about it.

(01:14:15):
And yeah, very last housekeepingthing If, um, you guys are
interested in new pack or belt,whatever, uh, ultimate
directions got you covered, uh,25% off.
You can just code steep stuffpot at checkout, um, and it's
definitely a good deal.
If you guys are trying to get anew vest, hydration, so any
type of hydration solution belts, uh, the comfort belt um is a
dope one.

(01:14:35):
I've been, I've been rockingwith lately, um, and same with
the utility belt.
So some good stuff there.
So, guys, have a great rest ofyour week.
Really appreciate you uhfollowing along.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
We'll see you next time.