#122 - Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Loriello.
And today I'm excited to welcomeMika Baldwin Rosio to the
podcast.
Super excited to have had Mikaon for a conversation.
I know Mika's been kind of we'vebeen trying to put this together
for a minute now, and it's beenkind of just a bunch of um you
know ups and downs and falsestarts with Mika really

(00:22):
struggling with injury over thepast year and a half to two
years.
So it's been it was reallyexciting to have Mika on to come
over for a conversation and justchat all about you know his
struggles and his ability tomake it back.
Um Mika just recently finishedin the top ten of the Pikes Peak
ascent as well as took a secondplace just behind um Cam Smith,
who's having a killer seasonright now at the Rut VK.

(00:45):
We talked a lot about Mika's uhjust motivators.
We talked a lot about his pastgrowing up in California in the
Bay Area, um, what gets himexcited, as well as hobbies.
We talked a lot about fishing umand who he is as a person
outside of running.
And then we talked about themental game of running.
Um Mika is just an incrediblyinspiring human.

(01:05):
Uh, for those of you who don'tknow the story, uh, dude got
himself fit off of a handbiketrying to get ready for a slew
of races over the last twoyears, um, including the Broken
Arrow uh VK in 2024, where hefinished just behind Jim
Walmsley and battled ChristianAllen out for that third spot,
um, as well as podium finishesat races like the Rudd VK just

(01:29):
behind Cam Smith, who's having abanner season, um, as well as
many others.
So Mika is just one incrediblyinspiring human.
I hope you guys take a lot awayuh from this episode.
There's a lot of really goodstuff in there.
Um, like I said, we get intoMika's motivators, his whys,
what interests him, um, and justwhere he wants the sport to go.
So without further ado, uh, MikaBaldwin Ruzio.

(02:52):
Ladies and gentlemen, sweet!Mika Bodin Rousseau.
Close.
Close enough, yes.
Sorry that you could all right.
How do you pronounce the lastname?
You could tell it for theaudience so that way they can
get it correct.

SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
Uh that would be Baudouin Rousseau.

SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Oh, dude, I love it.
I love it.
I wish I had a French accent orlike some semblance of it.
I gotta tell you.
So, welcome to the podcast, man.
This is something I've beenwanting to do for a long time.
I know we had kind of put it offafter last year on pikes, and I
think this is as good a timeever to have you on the podcast.
So I'm excited to have you, andthanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.
And yeah, it it feels like thisthis has been a long time coming
because we've been talking aboutit for a while, and then yeah, a
bunch of stuff happened with theinjury and everything.
And so I'm glad to finally be onand get to chat with you.

SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
Yeah, man.
Dude, it's kind of crazy.
I feel like you've been kind ofworking through this knee injury
for a long time, but have stillbeen able to kind of throw in
races and like put stuff on thecalendar.
Maybe, maybe talk a little bitabout what you've been working
through and kind of goingthrough over the last two years.

SPEAKER_01 (04:01):
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, took a pretty bad fallin the broken arrow sky race
back in 2024.
And I was actually coming backfrom another much more minor
injury going into that.
So I didn't quite have thetraining black I wanted to.
But yeah, just sliced my kneeopen like down to the bone.

(04:22):
And initially we thought it waslike, oh, just like classic
shell running fall, like need aton of stitches, but like, you
know, things are gonna be bitlike good again, like pretty
soon after.
And yeah, it was not that.
Um, I think the the tendonattachment um and the quad
tendon were also impacted in thefall.

(04:44):
And so yeah, I've tried to comeback.
I think this would be my sixthtime currently since that
injury.
Um and yeah, fingers crossedthat this one's this one's the
one that gets me back to where Iwant to be.
But I've had a lot of yeah,mixed builds in that process

(05:05):
where I, you know, am able toget back for a couple races and
then things kind of go downhillfrom there.
Um, and I'm happy to talk moreabout like the training and like
the thought process behind thatmore too.
But yeah, it's definitely been aroller coaster.
And uh I will say I'm gratefulto have gotten racism et al
through a lot of this because umyeah, a lot of those races that

(05:28):
I've done have like requiredvery creative training
methodologies.

SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Let's talk about that.
Let's get into it.
I know we'll introduce you andgo into your background later,
but like I gotta I gotta askabout the handbike and and how
you how you've been able to justaccumulate fitness and even
staying fit, given the fact thatyou've had limited usage of the
knee.

SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Oh, absolutely.
It's required a lot ofcreativity and a lot of mental
grit, I would say.
I mean, you think about likeevery like one of the most
heinous forms of crash trainingthat an athlete would have to do
to stay in shape.
And that's what I've beenlimited to with the nature of
this injury.

(06:10):
Like, I would love to be able tobike and like spend lots of time
outdoors, but the reality of itis that like knee flexion and
especially putting out powerunder um when the knee is flexed
has been like one of the majorlimiting factors.
And so I actually can't reallybike.
Um I I mean I'm getting there,but like in in in in the
definitely in the most acutestage of the injury, I couldn't

(06:31):
like bike at all.
And so I was doing initially alot of arm biking and arms only
swimming.
So I would do like up to I thinkmy longest day, I did three
hours of total uh arms onlycardio.
Um, I would usually like mix itup like like an hour of like arm
biking and then an hour of armsonly swimming, but I would do

(06:53):
like occasionally like two and ahalf hour arm bikes or uh at one
point I did like a three-hourarms only swim.
Um and yeah, I mean that waslike in the worst stage of it.
I also did a good amount of likeone-legged biking um to try like
after the accident two to try tolike keep my legs strong, even

(07:15):
though I couldn't do anythingwith one of them.
And then from there progressedto like at this stage right now,
like elliptical is the main formof crashing where I get my my
volume.
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
Can you I mean you can go into this as much as
you'd like to?
Just I think it's reallyimportant for to paint in a
picture for the audience justmentally, what that must have
gone through.
Not just going getting injured,but also getting injured, having
a lot of false starts to comeback and then have to go back
down into the pain cave andrestart this process.

(07:48):
How has that been mentally?
It's it can't be easy.

SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Oh, it's the the hardest thing.
I would say, like, yeah, thepast year and a half has
probably been one of the hardestor has required the most mental
gymnastics um from me to juststay positive and stay in it.
It's yeah, the uncertainty isdefinitely the worst part of it

(08:12):
because I mean you you have allthese stories of horrible
injuries in sports, and youknow, sometimes it's
career-ending, sometimes peopledefy the odds and make these
amazing comebacks.
And you know, sometimes you lookat those stories and it seems
inevitable in hindsight thatlike, oh, if you never give up,

(08:32):
like you're gonna get through itand you're gonna get back to
where you were.
But the reality of the realityof it is like in the moment when
you're in it, when you're likein the thick of it with the
uncertainty, like it reallydoesn't feel that way.
And you you don't know if it's amonth, two months, six months, a
year, like you don't know howlong it'll it'll be.

(08:53):
But I think one of the thingsI've really anchored onto during
that process is you know, thebeautiful part of not knowing is
that you could wake up the nextday, and that could be the first
day of an upward trajectory thatgets to back you back to where
you want to be.
And so what I've constantly beendoing throughout this process is

(09:13):
just waking up every single day,believing that that day could be
the first day of the comeback.

SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Dude, I love that.
That's a beautiful answer.
And I appreciate you beingcandid.
You know, it's I I can'timagine, especially, I mean, as
athletes, we identify so muchwith running.
I mean, you are someone that'sdone it for a very long time, if
not a large chunk of yourexistence.
So, one, I find it cool that youalso have other hobbies and
we'll talk about that as well.
But two, I just love the mindsetand your ability to kind of lock

(09:42):
in and believe that your bestdays are still ahead of you
because they absolutely are.
One thing I do find reallyinteresting too is dude, how are
you able to get that fit andstuff, or at least like maintain
your fitness to show up at likethe Rut VK and still get second
place and show up at Pike's Peakand still run in the top 10,
given that you've had longlayoffs in between?
Like how, like, I I know youtalked about like the hand crank

(10:04):
and the bike and stuff likethat, but how are you able to
like understand like where yourfitness is during that time?
Like get confidence through someof these workouts and kind of
understand, like, okay, like I Ican show up at Pikes and still
run a top 10 time, or I couldshow up at the rut and still
give Cam uh, you know, who's hada great season, an amazing
season, still be able to competewith him.
Like, how have you been able tokind of keep tabs on fitness

(10:25):
like that?

SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
Yeah, it's definitely that's a great
question, and it's definitelychallenging.
I would say for me, like I loveracing so much.
Like trail running is myfavorite thing in the world, and
racing is my favorite part oftrail running.
And to me, just you know,getting to do getting to race,
getting to do this, like that'sthe most important part.

(10:48):
And so, you know, when I'mlining up on the start line of a
race, like as long as I'm nottaking any health risks, I'm not
like uh necessarily afraid oflike having a performance that
could be embarrassing comparedto what my top form would be if
I was like fully healthy and andtraining normally.

(11:11):
And so yeah, I think I just showup with the intent of giving a
hundred percent of what I haveto give on the day, no matter
what.
And you know, that turns out toto work pretty well sometimes,
but there's also like definitelya lot of hard work that goes

(11:31):
behind that.
You know, I like even though I'mnot running a lot of volume, um,
you know, I'm still getting likeabout two hours or more of
aerobic volume every single daytraining in creative ways.
I'm doing like you know, hoursand hours of PT and strength
every week.
I'm doing all the little thingsthat I can to stay in shape and

(11:54):
build fitness in ways that arelike not necessarily running
mileage related.
And I'm still doing like veryhard workouts.
And I honestly that's one of thebeautiful things about uh trail
running is like it rewardsfitness.
You don't like obviously youneed running specific fitness,
but if you're fit, like you'reprobably gonna do all right.

(12:17):
And yeah, that's one of theparts of the sport that I'm most
grateful for, especially withthis this injury process.

SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
That's so crazy, man.
On the topic of the mentalbattle and your ability, one of
the things I just admire so muchabout you, and I've got to see
it now kind of twice in a row inback-to-pack pikes years, where
dude, you could just find thislike you could go into the well
and just like live there.
Like you've almost like, whatwas it last year?
You like your SPO2 levels werelike super low and you like

(12:45):
passed out like two years in arow, isn't that right, or
something like that?
Yeah, the people at the in thepike speaking med tent know me
quite well.
Dude, talk, talk about like Imean, uh I've had it a couple
times where I've gone so hard,like the vision started closing
in, but I've never actually likebeen able to force myself to
pass out, like going as hard asI possibly can.
How were you able to do that?

(13:06):
Like, I like it's just all themental things like trying to
tell you, like, hey, buddy, slowdown, and you're just able to
override that.
Like, how are you how are youable to do that?

SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's
something about pikes.
I don't know if it's related tomy physiology or but I've always
struggled up there in the highcountry.
Like, I mean, I've done it threeyears in a row now, and all
three years I've ended up in themed tent after the the la the
past two, and I mean this yearin particular have definitely

(13:36):
been the most dramatic.
Like this year they had to hookme up to pure oxygen because I
was just like, yeah, crazy lowspO2 levels and like didn't
really know where I was and likekind of like falling asleep.
Um, but yeah, I don't know.
I feel like I just love pushingmyself and just yeah, giving

(13:57):
everything I have no matterwhat.
And so that's kind of alwayswhat anchors my racing
mentality.
And you know, with this year inparticular, like something just
felt wrong from the gun.
Like I've never had that feelingin a race before, but like we
were like half a mile on therace, and I was wondering if I
should drop out because theeffort level just felt way off
what it should be.

(14:17):
And I mean, I know I'm not in mybest shape, but it there was
just something else that waswrong that day.
And what I kept coming back toin those early miles as I was
like, you know, mentally tryingto decide if it was a good idea
to keep going, was that like,you know, I haven't been able to
do this for almost a year, andso just the gratefulness of

(14:40):
being able to race is huge.
And so even if I'm not havingthe best day, like I'm gonna
give absolutely everything Ihave and make the most of it.
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
Yeah, dude, your brain, like you need to be
studied.
You need a white paper writtenon you.
It's so cool.
Um where are we at now, if youdon't mind being candid, like
about where you're at with theinjury?
Are you do you think you're onthe back end of it now?
I mean, you're been able tothrow in what three races now
this season, um, or at least onthis back end of September.
Like, where are you at now withjust the comeback?

SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
Yeah, for sure.
And I mean, all honesty, it'sit's hard to say, you know.
Like people like to say, like,oh, like he's back.
And like, I like it's it's saidwith good intention, but there's
almost a part of me that likecringes a little bit at that
because you know, I definitelydon't feel back, both with my

(15:32):
training and where I'm at, likeI'm still having some chronic
pain, and there's likedefinitely some neurological
symptoms with the knee thatwe're still trying to tease out.
Like one of the really weirdthings with this injury is that
I'll get this like very intenseburning pain on the scar from
the original accent.
So it feels like somebody'spressing like hot iron against

(15:53):
my skin.
It's very, very intense.
And that'll happen like duringexercise, sometimes like
randomly, like while sittingdown, if like if clothing
brushes against it.
Um so there's that, and thenthere's also pain in the tendon.
And yeah, it's been really hardto tease out like what uh pain I

(16:13):
can ignore and what pain I needto pay attention to.
Because as far as like MRIs andimaging goes, we've addressed
most of the obvious things thatare wrong with that area.
I mean, I obviously have likestill a good amount of scar
tissue and like tendonthickening.
And if you look at my patellaunder ultrasound, it looks like

(16:34):
somebody took like a spoon tothe top of it and just scooped
out a piece.
Um, but yeah, it's it so it'shard to say, but I am optimistic
that we've you know we've fixeda lot of the obvious things and
I'm hoping that you know what'sleft is more of like a chronic
pain neurological thing that canbe worked through.

(16:56):
So I am like, you know, stilleyeing some uh other races for
the rest of of 2025 anddefinitely have hopes of
competing more.
And yeah, I'm just reallyhopeful that I can just keep
progressing slowly but surely.
And then like the most importantthing is obviously just to have
a full schedule in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Dude, I hope so, man.
I'm I'm I'm rooting for you.
Cheering for it.
It'll be fun to have you back.
Have you considered um like haveyou looked in like stem cells
and stuff like that?
I know that's a like a verycommon thing with a lot of
professional athletes.
Like you see fighters go and getstem cells down in like South
America and like Tijuana andstuff like that.
I don't even know if that's likeyou saw the wada, but like it's
an idea.

(17:37):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
Yeah, no, for sure.
Like a couple people havementioned that to me.
And I think I mean, at leastwhere I'm at right now, it's
like I'm gonna see if thistrajectory keeps going in a
positive direction.
And I think you know, if I runinto more issues as I keep
building things up, that mightbe something I'll consider for
the end of this year before likehopefully being like fully good

(17:59):
for 2026.
Um, but I mean I've tried a lotof things.
Like I've seen like eightdifferent doctors for this, and
I mean countless more PTs,Kairos, like bodyworker type
people.
And one of the hardest thingshas been that like like from a
from a pain perspective and likean imaging perspective, like we

(18:20):
haven't there, like therehasn't, I mean, there there are
things that are wrong with myknee and with that area from the
fall, but there's like you know,it would almost meet like from a
mental perspective, it wouldalways be more comforting if it
was like, oh, like you fracturedyour patella, or like, oh, like
there's like like you tore thislike ligament or something, like

(18:40):
we can fix that.
And what like what a lot of whata lot of it has been is like
okay, there's like a couple ofthese things that are like
abnormal or like like differentand like potentially wrong with
that area as a result of thefall, but those things aren't
necessarily pathological.
Um like for example, I have likethis popping in my knee every

(19:01):
time I bend it past a certainpoint because of like the scar
tissue and like the tendonthickening that resulted from
the accident.
And so that's like notnecessarily like a it's not
necessarily like that that's notnecessarily causing the pain,
but should it be something thatlike we uh try to fix?
So there's been a lot of thingslike that where it's just like

(19:22):
yeah, a lot of a lot ofuncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
Yeah, almost a lot of like weird gray area.
Like you said, like it's onething if it's a torn tendon or a
broken bone, those things can befixed, but it's when there's a
lot of different little thingsthat you can kind of address and
play with and you're not sure,it's just like it creates a lot
of uncertainty.
So I can understand that.
That's uh yeah, dude.
It's it's it's it's crazy thatwith all the medical technology
we have these days, there'sstill some things that slip

(19:45):
under the radar and it's kind ofdifficult to figure out.

SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
Totally.
I mean, I think it's like a goodreality check as in with with
all things that we often weoften get a false sense of
security in thinking that weknow more than we do.
But there's so much still outthere that needs to be
discovered and learned.
And I that's a a cool part of ittoo.

SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
It's true.
That's very true.
All right, let's let's shiftfocus a little bit.
I want to learn more about youas the person.
Um, one of the things I foundinteresting, I was listening to
a podcast that the subhub didwith you, and I didn't realize
that you you technically areyou're tri you're a tri-citizen,
right?
Like you're a citizen of theUnited States, France, and um,
and Canada.

(20:30):
How do you how what's yourbackground?
Like, are you originally like isyour family French Canadian or
how did how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question.
And yeah, my family is so I wasactually born in California in
the US, but I mean my wholefamily is French Canadian and
like aside from my parents, likeeverybody's in Quebec.
And so I kind of got those uhnationalities uh through through
them.
And yeah, French is my my firstlanguage, it's what we we speak

(20:59):
at home, and yeah, it's it'scool to you know have you know,
I wish the family uh was alittle bit closer because
Quebec's kind of on the otherside of the the continent, but
you know, we always make a tripout there every year, and it's
cool to spend time over there.
It's so so green and beautifuland different from California

(21:20):
and Colorado.
So it's yeah, it's always funspending time out there.

SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
It is, it's beautiful.
Have you bonded all withteammate Remy Larue who lives in
Quebec?

SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
Yeah, we've we've chatted we've chatted a good
bit.
Um it's fun to be able to talkin French to some to somebody on
the on the Brooks team.
And uh yeah, definitely lookingforward to spending more time
with him.
I think we might connect.
I'm hoping to run CanadianChamps uh coming up in October.
So uh hoping to share some mileswith him in Quebec uh when I'm

(21:49):
over there.

SPEAKER_00 (21:49):
That's a beautiful race.
That's a great race that I know.
I've had I've contacted andtalked with them a few times.
How do you pronounce it?
Is it DeFi Dick I I always sayDeFi decalur, but I I'm I'm such
a yeah American.
Like I don't know.
How would you pronounce that?

SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
I mean, if you were to say it in French, it would be
Defi des couleurs.

SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Okay, okay.
All right.
That's yeah, I'm not, I gotta Igotta improve.

SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
Ah, you're good.
You're crushing it.

SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
I'm trying, I'm trying.
Actually, I yeah, there's a lotof new improvements.
So you're living you're basedout of Boulder now, is that
correct?

SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
Yeah, so I moved to Colorado last year, and yeah,
I've been based out of Bouldersince then.
Uh it's just such a great placeto train and live.
I mean, you get altitude, likegood, good trail access, and I
mean, far and away, the the bestpart is just the running
community.
Like everybody here is just sohyped on the outdoors and and

(22:42):
running and trail running.
And so yeah, the community isincredible and it's just great
to be a part of it.
Dude, yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
It's it's cool.
Have you uh not to shift gearstoo much because I wanted to
talk to you about like hobbies.
One of the things I reallyadmired about you, um, I come
from a background, a lot offishing.
I grew up in South Florida, um,and a lot of deep sea fishing
and estuary fishing and justcool stuff that's awesome.
So I saw you doing a lot of it.
Have you bonded at all with uhTaylor?
I know Taylor Stack is like aninsane fly fisherman, like it's

(23:12):
like super into it.
Have you guys uh gotten out tofly fish at all?

SPEAKER_01 (23:15):
Not yet.
We've been we've been meaning toand we we've talked about it
several times.
Um yeah, he like I feel likethere's definitely like a super
cool aspect of like combiningrunning and fishing, where you
just go to these beautifulalpine lakes and you know fish
and then run back down.

(23:36):
Um I actually haven't don't havemuch of a background in fly
fishing.
Uh kind of grow up growing up inCalifornia, yeah, did a ton of
ocean fishing, ton of deep seakayak fishing.
Um, that's probably my favoritekind of fishing, it's just like
going out in the kayak, like onthe ocean, just like far from
shore, and just like you justsee and experience so much out

(23:57):
there.
Um, but I do also do a lot oflike spin fishing, freshwater
fishing, and yeah, learning tofly fish has definitely been on
the bucket list for a while.
So I'm hoping uh yeah, Taylormight be able to help me with
that.

SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's yeah, it's cool.
He introduced me to some ofthese, like there's a couple
races out here in Colorado whereyou'll I think you're like
measured or you get like acertain time boost based off of
not just distance, but also likethe size of the fish that you
catch or the species orsomething like that.
There's it's it's kind ofinteresting.
Like, definitely something likeif you're looking for like a
like a different hobby outthere, and this is for listeners

(24:29):
too.
Like, there's some actual racesthat involve fly fishing in
Colorado and running, which iskind of different.

SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
So yeah, the flyathlon seemed super cool.

SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Fly athlon.
So that's what it's called.
It's fly athlon.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (24:40):
I think you have I think you have to fly fish.
So that's that's another reasonwhy I need to learn.

SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
There you go.
Yeah, you can win the runningpart.
It's the yeah, it's the flyfishing part.
Let's talk a little a little bitmore about the kayak.
Some dude, I mean, some of yourstories are were just
incredible.
I know for semi-recently you'dpost a few posted a few uh of
you just like ocean kayaking andstuff like that.
Like talk about thoseexperiences.
Like, is there anything thatsticks out to you that's like um

(25:06):
I don't know, it's it'sdifferent from running in the
sense where it it's a hobby,it's something else to do, but
it almost like separates you andconnects you a little bit more
of nature.
Whereas running, I feel like forall of us can be such a more of
an intensive kind of thing.
Um does it ground you more?
Like, what is it about fishingthat you that connects you?

SPEAKER_01 (25:25):
Yeah, I mean, for me, I think with like pretty
much everything in my life, it'sjust about like adventure and
like living a cool story andlike chasing those experiences
that like are cool stories.
And that's just led to a lot ofdifferent outdoor hobbies and

(25:45):
activities.
And yeah, fishing has alwaysbeen one of my favorite things
like from a young kid.
Like I ended up bonding withlike when I was like five years
old, I like bonded with thislike old fisherman at the
farmer's market, like total likeold man of the sea, like
personality, like long, longwhite beard, like Santa Claus

(26:06):
looked like Santa Claus.
And uh yeah, he took me out onhis like boat a couple times
fishing, and so yeah, it's justlike always been for me just
like a super fun way to engagewith nature and like also put
like food on the table that likecomes from a a source that's
sustainable and that like youknow where it you know where it
where it came from.

(26:27):
Uh and there's something veryrewarding about like going out
and you know getting food foryour family and then like
cooking it.
Um and yeah, like ocean kayakfishing has I feel like embodies
like all of those qualities forme of like you know, it's always
an adventure out there, you'realways gonna see like tons of
wildlife, like whales, dolphins,uh sea otters, sharks sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Have you seen a great have you bumped in any
great whites out there?

SPEAKER_01 (26:53):
I I've seen several over the years, actually.
Yeah, that's cool.
Um the biggest one I've seen wasabout 13 feet.
That's genius.

SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
That's bigger than the kayak, right?

SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
Like it is bigger than the kayak, yeah.
Um, but like for the most part,they they just like you know, if
you leave them alone, they theyleave you alone.
But yeah, lots of magicalexperiences out there.
Like I've had like um likehumpback whales come like like
lunch feed just like a couplefeet away from the kayak.
Um, like they were like goingafter like this school of

(27:23):
anchovies, and I was just likefloating there.
I was I was not fishing becauseI was just looking at the
whales, but it's just like sucha cool moment.
Um, and with dolphins too, like,yeah.
I mean, I feel like theCalifornia coastline is just
blessed with just so much coolwildlife, and it's just always
like you you feel like a veryone with the ocean out there on

(27:43):
a kayak.
Like I would never want to goout there in like a motorboat.
I mean, it would it would justbe a different experience, but
like with the kayak, you justfeel like very close to the
ocean, like every wave moves theboat in a meaningful way that
you like sometimes have toadjust for with the rudder to
not get capsized and whatnot.
So yeah, it's just a verygrounding uh experience.

SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
Interesting, dude.
I gotta try it.
I mean, I don't know.
Back home, my dad's got a couplekayaks, and but I never go out
with them.
It's more, it's not the like theocean kayak where you can like
just use your feet, it's more sojust like an actual like you
gotta do the whole like canoekayak thing.

SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (28:18):
Um but yeah, like it's a little more complicated.
But and the ocean is always abit more rough there.
Um yeah, so interesting.
What um what was it like growingup in California for you?
I mean, uh from your background,it seems like you had access
both to the Sierra and theocean.
It's had to have like reallyshaped who you are as a person
today.

SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I think yeah, growing upin California was was such a a
blessing, and you know, eventhough the the Bay Area isn't
like, you know, yourstereotypical mountain town
where like a lot of uhtrailrunners and mountain
athletes come from, it just likeafforded me the luxury of being
able to do a lot of differentoutdoor hobbies.

(28:57):
And so, and it's like prettynice year-round, which is a plus
because I I love gardening anduh yeah, growing my like I had
this big garden back home whereI would like grow a ton of
fruits and veggies.
Um, so that was another like funthing that California was was
awesome for.
But yeah, I mean like there'sgreat trowning in the Bay Area
and the Sierras are right there,and like my family was super

(29:19):
outdoorsy, and so we would youknow go up to the Sierras like
all the time growing up as akid, and then a little bit like
when I was in middle school, weact my family actually like got
a small cabin up there, and solike starting then we would like
literally be up there like everysingle weekend.
Um and so yeah, it was just likean amazing way, like just so

(29:40):
many different outdooractivities, like right at your
fingertips.
And you know, growing up, I youknow, n didn't really spend any
time on screens, you know, nevernever played video games.
Like I didn't have a smartphoneuntil college.
And so like truly every singlesecond of free time that I had,
I would direct.

(30:00):
Towards doing some somethingoutdoors or learning something
new.
And yeah, just so many fondmemories and incredible
experiences from growing upthere and having lots of time,
lots of time to do stuffoutdoors.
And it, yeah, I do think itreally shaped me into who I am
today.

SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
So cool.
Let's talk Stanford.
What was it like going to?
I mean, obviously, I don't wantto say it was in your backyard,
but like in the greater SanFrancisco area, Stanford's not
far.
Palo Alto is relatively close.
What was the recruitment processlike to go run there?
Or did you walk on?
Like, how did the process go touh run at Stanford?

SPEAKER_01 (30:35):
Yeah, so I was, I was, I was recruited to to go
there.
And funny enough, uh, when I waslike, so I grew up playing
soccer.
And as a kid, my dream wasalways to go play soccer for
Stanford and then professionallyafterwards.
Um, so Stanford was always like,I mean, it's obviously like a

(30:55):
great school.
Uh my dad also went there forgrad school and local.
So it was like always kind oflike a school that I like was
always on my radar as I wasthinking about colleges.
And yeah, was fortunate enoughto have like a really great
season, my senior cross-countryuh season in high school.

(31:16):
And so I was recruited to to runfor them.
And yeah, it was definitely likeI uh yeah, the coaches that were
there when I started I really,really liked.
And so it was uh there was therewas a later a later coaching
change, but it was yeah, it wascool to be close to home and
like still be able to do a lotof things that I was doing in in

(31:38):
the high school, like in termsof like outdoors activities.
And obviously the team wastop-notch.

SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
So yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (31:45):
Cool that cool to train with a lot of other really
good runners.

SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Did you ever you're somewhat in the ballpark of
age-wise of Garrett Corcoran?
Did you guys ever race eachother when he went in the pack
12?

SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
I don't think we ever raced each other.
Funny enough though, I actuallydid visit do an official visit
to Cal.
Um, and so I did uh meet him andinteract with him there.
But we we may have overlappedone year.
I think he may have been yeah,actually, yes, we did overlap.
So my freshman year uh was hislast year at Cal.

(32:19):
And so we did race uh Pac-12sand uh nationals that year in
cross country.

SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
What a small world.
That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yeah, I feel like and I feel like there's like
more and more like NTAA peoplethat are like transitioning to
trails, which is cool.

SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
Yeah, but Dan Kurtz was in the mix during that time
as well.
Like I think he's a little bit,I think he's a little bit older.
I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 (32:41):
Yeah, we didn't we didn't overlap in college.

SPEAKER_00 (32:43):
No, okay, so there's there's a few, but it's just
interesting.
Yeah, how many folks for at thathigher D1 level, like the you
know, strong pac-12 and some ofthose bigger schools, yeah,
really coming out and showing upon the trails now, which is is
very entertaining.
It's kind of interesting.
Did you on that thread, like,were you aware that like trails
could be like a thing aroundwhen by the time you were coming

(33:04):
out?
Or was it more so the trail teamthat kind of showed you that
like this could be like acareer?

SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
No, I so for me it was like from basically from day
one of college, my dream was torun professionally on the trails
uh post-collegiately.
So it was actually kind of aninteresting story because I so I
mean, as I mentioned, like I youknow didn't grow up on social

(33:30):
media or like on my phone atall.
So I didn't really have anyconnection to the running world
in terms of like being able todiscover the competitive side of
trail running.
But I spent my entire childhoodlike running on trails, like
even like even long before I wasa runner, like you know, I was

(33:50):
just bombing these technicaldescents because it was fun.
Um and when I started college,um, Megan Roche was doing her
PhD research on the Stanfordteam.
And so I met the Roches thatway, and that was what kind of

(34:12):
opened my eyes to like that youknow, competitive troll learning
actually did exist.
And you know, from that that waskind of like an aha moment where
I'd never really thought aboutrunning professionally before
then.
But as soon as I realized thatrunning professionally on the
trails was a potential careerpath, it was like, oh, this is

(34:34):
like absolutely what I want todo.
Like, this is the dream.
And so, like throughout college,that was like all I was thinking
about.

SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
Wow, dude.
So shout out to Megan and Davidfor uh they've brought so many
new people and so manyinteresting characters into the
sport.
I like I love how much likerecruitment and overlap that
there's been.
So that is a really cool thatlike you knew that this was the
thing.
It's funny, I meet so manypeople that are like, oh, you
know, I was on YouTube and I sawa video of Anton running

(35:03):
shirtless on the grand or onLong's Peak, and it's like
that's got what people got, youknow, what got them excited
about the sport.
Um, but it's interesting to youthat like you got to meet one of
the I mean, obviously David isan extremely crazy good athlete,
so is Megan in her own right,but like it's two of the best
coaches in the sport uh to beable to kind of like lure you
in.
Um so that's interesting.

(35:24):
Like, so it never did it evercross your mind to possibly like
want to continue on to the trackor in in some other way maybe
like transition onto the roads,or it was just always trail.

SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
It was pretty much always trails for me.
You know, I think like if I'dbeen offered a like a pro-road
contract coming out of college,I think I I probably would have
accepted.
But trail running and mountainrunning is really what I find
what is most meaningful to mebecause it it it kind of
revolves around all the thingsthat I would be doing anyway and

(35:56):
that I love most and that I'mmost passionate about.
Track is like I don't know, uhthat's much much less appealing
to me.
Um, both by the nature of it,and I'm also like I'm also not
that good at it.
Um, I just don't have that muchleg speed.
So like I've never closed fasterthan a 63 in anything longer

(36:20):
than a mile.
So it was always veryfrustrating for me in like a lot
of these NAA, like 10k races,for example, where it's like you
just have this big pack of guysthat's going around the track
for you know 24 laps, and thenit all comes down to who can
kick the fastest on the lastlap.

(36:41):
And I've just never had that legspeed.
You know, I feel like I couldkeep going, but I can't turn
over past a certain point.
And so that was kind of theappeal, another part of the
appeal of like these longerraces that are more about how
long you can suffer for twohours.

SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
Fair enough.
You're an interesting person tome because you come from such a
high caliber background, youknow, cross-country track and
field, obviously, a strong D1pedigree where it's so
performance-based.
And obviously, you race a ton ofsubulture races, which are
extremely performance-based aswell.
But you also strike me withthis, there's this dichotomy of
you of like also lovingadventure and just loving

(37:19):
spending time in the mountains.
Um does that bring any interestin like potential FKTs in the
future?
Is there anything like any likeup-down mountain classic, like
something like the grand orsomething that is like very
interesting to you from Peakperspective, uh, that also has a
ton of adventure that maybecalls to you?

SPEAKER_01 (37:37):
Oh, absolutely.
I I can go on about this for along time.
I have probably like amulti-page document of these
like mountain projects and FKTsthat I just want to go after at
some point.
I think, you know, I I think ifI hadn't um gotten injured at
the end of my first trailseason, you would have

(37:59):
definitely seen me doing a lotof that in 2024.
You know, I think, I mean, thegrant like the grand that you
just brought up, like I pitchedthat to Brooks like within like
a month of signing that it wassomething that I wanted to do.
Um, you know, Mount Shasta waslike my first, like I when I
climbed it from the north sideback in 2019 or 2020 or

(38:24):
something, that was like myfirst like really big mountain.
And like from that day, like I'mnot gonna absolutely want to go
for the the FKT on that at somepoint.
And there's just like so manyother ones that I can just keep
going on.
But yeah, it's definitelysomething that I want to make
time for in my schedule infuture years, so that my year

(38:45):
just isn't solely about racing,it's also about this adventure
aspect and you know doing thesereally cool things in the
mountains.

SPEAKER_00 (38:55):
It's it's interesting, right?
Like you've seen, you know, inyears past, like Michelino with
the grand, right?
Then you see Nadir kind ofchasing Killian's record on the
Matterhorn.
I just find it reallyinteresting because it's not
something we see a ton of on oursub Ultra scene where athletes
are kind of mixing it up inboth.
The high caliber FKT scene, likethat form of expression, if you

(39:17):
will, as well as maybe racing onthe the Cirque series or the
Golden Trail series or thesemore competitive racing series.
You don't see a lot of athletesdoing a ton of both.
More so it's an athlete goingand doing just the series, like
for instance, like Remy LaRue,your teammate.
I think he raced like 26 timesalready this season.
It's crazy.
Yeah, he's got to be supertired.
But like it's I think, and youtell me this.

(39:41):
Do you think a world existswhere you can kind of have both
uh in the future of the sport,where you can have this
dichotomy of being able toexpress yourself by doing you
know really cool ridge link upsand FKTs, things that you know
are a little more expressivethan just a race, for instance,
like but also be able to race.
Can you can you is do you thinkthat a world exists where you
can do both as a professional?

SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Absolutely.
And I think like for mepersonally, at least, like that
is the ideal world.
I think those projects are thekind of things that keep you
energized and keep you justreally jazzed about the sport
and running and performing inthe mountains, especially when
they have like personalsignificance.

(40:22):
You know, I think that'sprobably one of the things that
uh leads to a lot of longevityin the sport, from a mental
standpoint at least, is beingable to pursue your own
projects.
And I think, yeah, I mean, asyou mentioned, one of the
reasons uh, you know, maybe wehaven't seen as much of that in
the past is I think there'sdefinitely you know more
financial incentive with howcontracts are structured to you

(40:45):
know go to these high-performingraces and and do well.
So I think it it comes down tolike the athlete kind of making
the conscious decision to pursuethose things and to like you
know, maybe put a little bit ofpressure on the brand to support
those things.
But I think the sport isabsolutely going in that
direction.
I mean, I think you know,outdoor storytelling has always

(41:06):
been something that I've beenfascinated by and that I think
is like super cool and that Ithink is like definitely growing
a lot.
And I think the sport is headingin a direction where I think
there's gonna be a little bitmore space for that and there's
gonna be more interest for that,especially as the you know, the
technology to film these featsuh keeps getting better.

(41:28):
You know, I think, yeah, thosethose are the stories that are
gonna inspire day-to-day peoplemore than you know, watching
this race.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
I think that's how I also thinkthat's how we attract new few
people into the sport.
I think it's how you sell shoes.
I think there's there's just alot of I think it's a win-win
from a brand's perspective ofstorytelling to be able to, you
know, talk about both.
But it it would be cool to see.
I don't know if cool is theright word.
I think it would be exciting tosee as the sport grows and

(41:59):
develops and as weprofessionalize more as a sport
to have that dichotomy to beable to do both.
Um let me pivot really quick.
I want to talk to you aboutBrooks because you're a member
of the Brooks team.
I have to say, if there's anyteam that deserves our flowers,
especially over this year, it'sjust been the amount of
subulture athletes and theamount of investment that
they've put into our sport, um,especially on the American side

(42:21):
this year, that it's been sovisible with athletes like
Sidney Peterson, Taylor Stack,Courtney Coppinger, yourself,
and just plenty others I haven'teven mentioned, but it's just
been so cool to see like theteam explode and really come
onto the scene this year.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat it's like being on a team
and or being on that team andjust what it's like running for
that brand?

SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Brooks is like definitely has aspecial place in my heart.
I think, you know, there'sthey're one of those brands
where they they make good shoes,but they're also a great company
and they really treat theirathletes well.
And I think they're also one ofthe brands that has definitely
invested most in the subultraspace, which I mean, I think the

(43:04):
subultra space is gonna grow alot over the next couple of
years.
Um is gonna see a lot more uhyou know, high calibrants,
double-A people entering thespace and a lot more like fandom
from people that maybe typicallyfollow track and road.
But yeah, it's just been so coolto see the team grow and to have
this like yeah, really strongteam community.

(43:26):
Like the Brooks team is just thebest.
Like, we're just like all sosupportive of each other and
really, really great teamculture.
And Brooks definitely puts a lotof effort into that with like
the like getting team campsorganized for us so we can spend
time with each other.
And yeah, uh Brooks is Brooks isa great brand.

SPEAKER_00 (43:45):
So cool.
What's the new shoe you guysdropped?
I haven't got a chance to see itin the wild yet, but I've seen
Remy in it a few times.
I've seen Dan run in it.
What's what's it called?

SPEAKER_01 (43:54):
Uh so we have the the Cascadia Elite that is gonna
come out in 2026, and yeah,that's gonna be Brooks'
carbon-plated trail shoe.
Which uh yeah, I've definitelyI've definitely enjoyed the runs
that I've done in it so far.
Very cool, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
No, I appreciate you being candid about it.
It's it's interesting to me, um,just like the investment and
just the amount like in a sportwhere I feel like we can have
both, it seems like I see a lotof brands, and this is okay,
like there's nothing wrong withit, but I just see a lot of
brands with a very heavy ultrafocus.
And I just think there's somuch, so much to be told, such a

(44:33):
good story to be talked aboutwhen it comes to these VKs, the
mountain classics, even up tothe marathon and and the golden
trail series races.
Like, there's a lot ofdiscussion to be had there, a
lot of stories to be told, andit's cool to see a brand like
and more, hopefully more brandsstart to invest that way and
support more of the athletes inthe space.
Um, especially because you know,it's like we have so much depth,

(44:55):
and I don't want to say it'smore depth than ultra, it's it's
just a different sport, it's adifferent conversation.
It's just that I've found moreand more athletes to be
unsponsored on the sub ultraend.
Whereas I feel like if someonecranks one out of the park on
the ultra end, it's very easyfor them, easier.
I've seen them get contractsquicker.
Whereas on the subultra side, Isee people get contracts not as

(45:15):
fast.
It takes a lot longer.
Have you noticed that?
Like, what's your take on that?

SPEAKER_01 (45:20):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, I think you know, theroots of trail running are ultra
races.
And so I think a lot of brandsare still stuck in that old way
of thinking of oh, trail runningis is ultra running.
And if we want to have trailrunning athletes, like they
should be doing ultras.

(45:41):
But yeah, I mean, I think thelandscape is definitely
changing.
And yeah, I think I I agree withyou.
I do think it is I thinkhistorically it's been a lot
harder for athletes to getsponsored in the subultra space.
I think that is about to change,and I think it uh may soon maybe
be easier.
Um just with like uh GoldenTrail series just really pushing

(46:04):
for more media coverage in thatspace.
Uh I think maybe one of thereasons you know it could be
easier to get sponsored in ultrarunning is because you you just
can't race as much.
Yeah.
And so when you're towing theline of these big races, like
there's inevitably gonna be acouple of the best people in the
world that aren't there becausethey're focusing on another race

(46:26):
that might be like three monthsaway, but you know, they can't
do 200 mile or 200 milers likeback to back like that, or they
choose not to to try to reallyfocus on the other one.
Whereas most subulture races,like most golden trail races,
like you're gonna have almosteverybody lining up and going
for it at each one of thoseraces.

(46:47):
So it's harder to have like aseemingly breakout performance
in that space when everybody isdoing all the races.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
That's a really good way to put it.
That's a great perspective.
I yeah, it's it's I don't know.
It's uh it's really cool.
And you hit on something that Ireally appreciate too, is you
said something in regards to thefandom, growing the fandom.
The fandom of the sport has gotto grow.
I mean, that's like kind of oneof my missions with this podcast
is to continue to develop andlike get people excited about
our our sport, you know, as itcontinues to grow and develop.

(47:21):
What do you think we can do, notjust as athletes, but as people
in the sport with a voice?
Like, how how does the how doesthe fandom continue to grow?
Like, what what are yourthoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 (47:31):
I think it also comes down to telling good
stories.
You know, I think that's whatpeople are interested in these
days, or just in general, um, ispeople you know what attracts
people is real stories of realpeople accomplishing like really

(47:52):
cool things.
And I think Golden Trail hasdone a good job at that.
Very good.
Um, with trying to bring in alike kind of having these like
characters um in the GoldenTrail series that they that they
follow on that like people canlike be more in tri like it's
almost like a reality TV show,and sometimes I think I do think

(48:13):
they push it too far.
Um and they definitely like tryto pit people against each
other, but I do think that youknow they're onto something
there where you know people arewhat people are attracted to is
these like cool stories, andyeah, I mean media coverage too

(48:33):
of so well choices is just veryexciting if you can get like
photographers to film like someof the technical descent
portions.
And I this is I'm going a littlebit on a tangent here, but I
think one of the other reallycool aspects of trail racing
compared to like track or roadis that you have like the races.

(48:53):
If there was a way to like filmcontinuously, I think the races
would be a lot more excitingbecause it's not like when
you're off the back in a trackrace or a road race, like it's
pretty much over.
Like the people that are pushingthe pace up front are gonna keep
pushing the pace up front, andpeople are just gonna
progressively drop off.
But in a trail race, you havethese constant fluxes as the

(49:16):
terrain changes, wheresomebody's a better climber,
somebody's a better descender,somebody's a better technical
descender, somebody's a bettersteep climber versus like a
runnable section.
And so, you know, you can havethese constant place changes
throughout the race.
You can have people making up,you know, one or two minutes of
time on a descent or on a climb.

(49:37):
And so I think it just makes ita lot more exciting to watch.
And I think that aspect ofracing needs to be highlighted
more, in my opinion.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:49):
In in the you know what?
I think it's the showing thestories of how it's unfolding
during the race.
Like, for instance, it could beas short as a VK or as long as
something in the Golden Trailthat does a really good job
about that.
But I also think, too, there's alot to be told about the athlete
stories.
Like, I find it so bizarre thatlike you find how you have
someone in the sport like JoeGray, who's been in the sport

(50:10):
forever, right?
Has won more things than anyoneelse.
And yeah, the dude's got like, Idon't know, 15,000 followers,
but like you look at someonelike Killian who's got like
almost a million followers orover something like that.
And it's just like, well, thestories were told through
Solomon TV really well forsomeone like Killian to build
this aura and this mythos of whothis human was and is and what

(50:32):
he continues to do.
Whereas I almost feel like therewas less storytelling on someone
like Joe.
So people don't really know asmuch about him as they should.
And so with that, like I justthink that there's so much
opportunity there to talk aboutthe stories of these folks and
you know what goes into theseperformances on race day and
then what it looks like on raceday.
If you if even if you have a badday or if you have a good day,

(50:54):
you know, there's there's just alot there to be told.
And I think Ultra just does sucha damn good job of capturing
that.
And that's something we need toroll into the sport.
And uh, I think it's almost aneasier sell on the subulture
side because the races areshorter, that it's something
easier to talk about.
So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (51:10):
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the other
interesting things with Killiantoo is I think you know, the the
things he does outside of races,I think you know, I think that's
what adds to his um, you know,his like legendary status among
people that aren't evennecessarily runners, yeah, is

(51:31):
all these adventures that heplans out and is super
passionate about that he doesbetween races.
And I think yeah, that's that'sthe reason that he has kind of
risen to the point that he hasin terms of like social media
followers and whatnot.
People like stories andadventures.

SPEAKER_00 (51:52):
And I think he's in a kind of class in a lot of ways
where he's challenged the normswhere you know people go to
Ultra and stay in Ultra.
People go in sub Ultra and a lotof times stay in sub Ultra.
Where Killian has so much rangethat it doesn't even matter.
He changed, he he challenged andthen he goes and does something
like Everest twice, you know,and it's like okay, like there
is whatever people preconceivedas a specific norm or try to fit

(52:14):
this athlete in a box, you can'treally do that with him because
he's does just about everything,which is I find super
interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (52:21):
Yeah, no, and that's like one of the parts aspects of
him that I admire most, is thatlike, you know, I'm sure he had
a lot of difficult discussionswith brands in terms of doing
the things that he waspassionate about and the things
that he wanted to do versus whatthey wanted him to do.
And so, yeah, I think that'sanother like like I tip my hat

(52:43):
to him for that.

SPEAKER_00 (52:45):
He's an interesting character.
I I gotta ask you, I I've beenasking this everybody lately, as
far as like the play, likepeople that have voices in the
sport or where they want it togo.
So I gotta ask you, like, as thesport continues to
professionalize, and you're veryyoung in the sport, like you've
got your your best days arestill ahead of you, and you're
just only gonna get better andcontinue to develop.
So, like, where do you want tosee the sport go?

(53:07):
Like, do you think it's gonna bean Olympic sport?
Do you think it's not?
Like, what what do you want tosee out of it?

SPEAKER_01 (53:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think it would be really cool
for it to become an Olympicsport and to just get more
people excited about it.
And like, as an athlete, likewho doesn't want to compete on
the Olympic stage in theirsport?
Like, that would be so cool.
I do think, though, there's alot of things that need to be
adjusted as the sport grows, youknow, as there's more

(53:35):
professionalization, as there'smore prize money, as there's
more media exposure, uh, youknow, I do think we're gonna
need better uh doping controlswithin the sport.
And I do think, you know, Ithink uh it the sport is
definitely gonna change, notnecessarily in a bad way, but I
think as a community, we'regonna have to make conscious

(53:57):
choices and constant consciousdecisions to keep the aspects of
it that we like value most.
I mean, one of the one of thecoolest things about troning is
just like showing up to a raceand you know, everybody is just
you like I feel like it's like acommunity gathering, like you
just know so many people andyeah, it's the best.

(54:17):
And like that aspect might mightchange to a certain extent where
we might see races get biggerand bigger and resemble more
more roadrunning races.
But I think like race directorsand athletes and people can you
know make conscious choices tokeep the parts of it that we
value most.
So I do think it's possible forit to grow and like stay

(54:38):
authentic and and fun.
And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:41):
I think there's room for both.
Yeah.
I mean, I talk to a lot ofpeople about this because you
know, you hear a lot that's likea very common uh discussion with
monopolization and racemonopolization and things like
that.
I mean, I think it's verypossible that we can live in a
world where you can have, youknow, the little mom and pop
race that doesn't even have uh,you know, they just put numbers
on the bibs, there's no timingchips, they're just writing the

(55:02):
times down.
I feel like that can exist, butalso at the same time, we can
have our UTMBs and world champsand mountain running
championships and things likethat.
I think I think we can do both.
The one thing that I findinteresting is just like the
anti-doping conversation, whichhas been brought up a lot.
And it's like we're at thisweird intersection in the sport
where we're getting more money,more eyes, there's obvious

(55:23):
professionalization, but thedrug testing only seems to be
out you know, at the races.
And it's like, okay, well, eventhen.
Yeah, and even then it's three,if you're lucky, it's three
people deep.
It's yeah, it's and it's it's acommon conversation.
So it's like, I don't know.
It's interesting to me.
It's funny, this is like a supersideways tangent, but I was just
listening to a really goodpodcast with this guy, Mark

(55:44):
Kerr.
He used to be a fighter, and hewas a UFC fighter back in the
day.
And like he was part of thissport during a time where like
everybody was on steroids,everybody was on TRT, but the
they looked back at that likeworld of their sport.
Now, obviously, obviouslyeverybody's clean, there's
doping controls, it's acompletely different sport, but
they looked back at that timeand were like, okay, that was

(56:05):
the time that it was in.
And I see cycling do that a lottoo, where they look back at the
Lance days where there wasconsiderable doping and they
went through this wholemetamorphosis of sport, and
they're like, okay, that was thetime that it was in.
I just hope that we don't lookback at our sport one day and
are like, okay, like it was kindof the wild west.
We evolved from it, but likethat was the time that it was
in.
Like, I hope that we can likeget good control and like

(56:28):
actually get like some sort ofout-of-season like testing pool
or something, some better thingthan we have now, you know.
That way we don't have to lookback at the sport and be like,
oh, it was a rough, rough time,you know.

SPEAKER_01 (56:40):
No, I mean those are good points.
And like I'd also definitelyhope that we can, you know,
learn from those historicalexamples and do the right thing
in as as we kind of approachthat point in our sport where it
becomes something that we needto be concerned about.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:59):
Let's talk uh career.
As a young gun in the sport andsomeone that's had like you know
a lot of success so far, likehow do how do you view your time
in sport?
Do you look at it as like acareer?
Like I want to do this for 10,15, 20 years, like, or do you
look at it now from like aday-to-day perspective, like
every day's a gift?
Like how how do you kind of likeconceptualize it?

SPEAKER_01 (57:17):
I mean, I think there's different ways to look
at it.
I think, you know, I definitelylook at it as a career.
Like throning is my favoritething in the world, and I
definitely, you know, hope to beable to do it and do it at a
high level and compete at allthe best races um with the best

(57:39):
people in the world for as longas I can, you know, hopefully
another 10, 15, maybe 20 years,uh, maybe longer than that.
You know, hopefully there's uh ayou know more of a masters uh
division like there is in sometrack you like USATF stuff at
that point, and I can just keepkeep competing as an old man.

SPEAKER_00 (58:01):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (58:02):
Um but I mean there's definitely also I think
you have to like you have tohave that vision, but you also
have to have just theday-to-day, like just the
day-to-day gratefulness of likeyou don't want to ever be caught
up in thinking too much aboutthe future like every day is
indeed like a gift, and like tobe able to do it and to live

(58:27):
that dream is just like youknow, that's amazing.
Like it's just it's I mean, thedream is just living every day
at a time, and so you have tolike focus on that more than the
long-term vision, and thelong-term vision will will
happen if you do that.

SPEAKER_00 (58:44):
Yeah, on the topic of races, you've done you've
raised series and all, you'veraised some of the most
competitive races on the planet.
Is there anything thatspecifically calls you still?
Or is it you've do you feellike, okay, now that I've raced
this, I just want to get back toit and give my best at it, or is
there one specific race that'slike I have to get here?

SPEAKER_01 (59:03):
Yeah, it's a it's a great question.
I think I definitely would liketo race OCC or CCC at some
point.
I mean, I yeah, the the 50kdistance has definitely been
calling to me for for some time.
I mean, I ran my first one atthe end of my 2023, which was my
first like competitive trailseason.

(59:25):
And it's just such a coolexperience.
Like I love Sub Ultra, but andbut there's something about like
you know going out there for along race and even planning for
a long race, like you just likeyou just like lay out all your
gels and your drink mix, and youhave these like spreadsheets
with like where you're gonna doit.
Just feel like it's just like itjust feels like such a cool
adventure, you know.

(59:45):
It feels like you're going onlike a Mars mission or
something.
Um so I definitely want to domore of that and you know keep
obviously keep doing subulturestuff, but I am I am intrigued
at dipping my toes in some.
Longer stuff long term.
And yeah, I mean, I feel likeright now at least, like uh UTMB

(01:00:07):
is kind of a Super Bowl of thesport.
And so doing something like OCCor CCC at some point would be
super cool.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:15):
So cool.
On the topic of UTMB races, Inoticed last year you had thrown
down at ETC, and I was superblown away by how competitive it
was last year and this year.
I know your teammates Dan andRemy mixed it up this year in
the top 10.
You got fourth last year or2024.
Yo, did that race stick out toyou at all?
Like it seemed like this year itgot more buzz than it normally

(01:00:36):
has.
And I'm wondering if like maybeUTMB is gonna possibly like make
a final out of that for likemaybe more of the like the 20k
or 15k category.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:45):
Yeah, I definitely hope that they like grow that
race.
I mean, funny enough, last yearwhen I ran, so last year I
qualified for OCC by finishingsecond in Thailand, which was
the um Asia Pacific major, and Ilike fully intended to run it,
but then with you know with theinjury in June, I mean there was

(01:01:08):
the question of whether I waseven going to be able to race in
Europe at all in August.
And so I ended up dropping downin distance to do ETC.
Like not really, I didn't reallyhave any like super high
expectations for it.
But yeah, it was like super hypeand fun.
And I, you know, definitely hopethat UTMB invests more into it

(01:01:31):
and kind of grows it so that wesee more of the top athletes
going there to run it.
Uh, I think that would be supercool.

unknown (01:01:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:39):
Yeah, it was cool.
I mean, a lot I I use that as ahuge like research point for uh
like I was just blown away forthe for World's Mountain
Classic.
Like quite a few athletes thatrace DTC just internationally,
particularly in Europe and Spainand Italy, like also threw down
and did really well DTC.
And I was just like, wow, likethe depth there is absolutely
insane this year.
So yeah, it would be cool to seethem like invest in it and grow

(01:02:00):
that race and just like make ita final for you know the 15, 20k
or I guess the 20k distance orfor whatever, um, or like a true
world mountain classic final,like on an annual basis, which
would be dope.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:11):
So yeah, I mean I think I mean you UTMB is like I
think it would be in theirinterest to do that.
So yeah, yeah.
Hopefully I hope they do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:20):
It'd be cool if the Pelletti's.
Hey, if you're listening, by allmeans.
Uh one more race I want to getto that you had done this year
was the Rut uh VK.
That was kind of was that your Iwould say that was your first
one back before Pikes.
Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:33):
It was, yeah.
And it was actually my firstfinish line in 51 weeks.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:38):
Wow.
That's clear.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:39):
So because I tried to come back and race UTMB
Thailand again at the end oflast year, but um yeah, as soon
as we started like I made itlike 20 miles, but as soon as we
started going down the steepdownhills, it the knees started
hurting, and so I had to to dropout to not like risk any like
major long-term things.

(01:02:59):
Uh, but yeah, super fun to beback at the the rut this year.
I feel like it's I feel likeit's a race that just like gets
overlooked a little bit.
Yeah, you know, it's like it'sin Montana.
Um, you know, there's maybeless, maybe a little bit less
attention on it, but it's likesuch a fun event and race, and
the you know, the race directorsand the people there are just

(01:03:20):
like so stoked on it and do justsuch a good job.
I got a free mullet over there.
Oh, I like it too.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:27):
Did you get the tattoo yet?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:28):
I did not get the tattoo, no.
But I did get a free mullet.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:32):
Fair enough.
That's so cool.
Well, you had a great finishthere.
You got on the podium.
It's interesting, man.
That that race kind of calls tome in the sense where I didn't
realize this.
It's the second biggest race inthe United States.
Like from uh trail race, Ishould say.
Um, outs outside of BrokenArrow.
But I didn't realize thateither.
It's because of I to me, I guessit's just because of like where

(01:03:53):
it lands on the weekends wise.
Like everybody's competing forprime time because people are
either just getting back fromUTMB or in that kind of world,
or they could be in Europe, orthere's other things that pop up
on the calendar.
So the way it's situated in thecalendar makes it kind of
complex to get there.
And it it just uh it is such acool race.
I don't know.
I'm I'm enamored by just likewhat they put on out there, it's
pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:13):
Oh, totally.
Yeah, it is yeah, that Septembermonth is definitely tough in
terms of there's like just somuch going on, and like Golden
Trail used to have like theirNorth America World Series races
in September as well.
And so I was like pretty bummedabout that like my first year
because I was like, ah, like Ireally wanted to go check out
the rut because I've heard likesuch good things.

(01:04:35):
But yeah, I mean I part of me dolike does wish that there was a
little bit more likecoordination and collaboration
between like race directors totry to like have races, like big
races not land on the sameweekends so that like athletes
can like truly go head to headat and do like a lot of these

(01:04:57):
like really cool events.
But I mean it it is just part ofthe sport, like it is kind of a
wild west and like anybody canstart like a competitive race
series and in trail running andcall it like the World Series or
the or the whatever it is.
Um so I think it's just I it's apart of the sport that just kind
of makes me laugh and is likeyeah, I think it's it's it's

(01:05:18):
good, yeah.
It adds to the character of thesport.
And if anything, like sometimesit's nice that you can't do
everything in a year becausethen you can switch it up more
and have different experiencesfrom season to season and year
to year.
But yeah, Red is a great race.
It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:35):
I gotta ask you this.
As someone who I would have, ifyou were obviously in a healthy
year, I would have pegged you asan easy favorite for either the
vertical or the mountain classicteam, whichever cheat whatever
thing you would have chosen tohave raced, I would have
expected you to have done well.
Um is that something that's onyour radar in the future for
maybe 2027, is trying to get ona team USA?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:54):
Oh, definitely.
I mean, it was a huge goal thisyear.
Like I had a procedure on myknee in March, and I mean I
literally just put everythinginto getting back for the broken
arrow VK in June.
Like I initially was also gonnatry to do the classic, and
actually it was also gonna tryto run the short the short
trail.

(01:06:15):
Um and then I I wasn't gonna doall three at worlds, but I I
just kind of wanted I wasprobably gonna do two at worlds,
I just kind of wanted to dothose races because they're
they're awesome.
But yeah, I mean obviouslythings didn't work out and I had
to get like a follow-upprocedure done.
But yeah, worlds is so cool andit's been amazing to watch

(01:06:35):
everybody crush it over therethis past week.
So definitely something that my2027 is gonna be focused on.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:43):
Dude, this is a crazy question, but you could
compete for USA, Canada, orFrance.
Like that's kind of cool.
Like, is there if you I meanthis is a hyper crazy
hypothetical.
I mean, obviously, France I knowis like super picky with the way
they do their selections, andit's like kind of like a longer,
significantly longer processwhere I feel like in US team USA
you could just earn your spot,but Canada also might be, you

(01:07:06):
know, if you there's you gotoptions for 2027, man.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:10):
I I do I do have options, yeah.
And I represented the US at the2019 World Cross Country
Championships, and so but thatwas like over four years ago.
So if I wanted to, I could uhswitch.
Um yeah, I have options.
We'll see.
I think like I like I would mostlikely like yeah, France is it

(01:07:33):
would be kind of tough justgetting to the qualifiers and
like doing the selectionprocess.
Canada would definitely be uh anoption, I think.
Um yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:42):
I mean, hey, yeah, you got more options than most
people, so it's not not a badthing.
Um I gotta ask you this.
Any takeaways from World'sWeekend?
Was there anything that stuckout to you that you thought was
really cool or interesting?
Any performances?
I don't know.
I I had a lot of fun covering itand just you know, kind of just
keeping an eye on what was goingon.
I I thought it was kind ofinteresting.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:02):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like the US like really showed
up in like all the distancesbecause that was you know super
cool to watch like a bunch of myteammates and friends just go
out and absolutely crush it.
And yeah, it's I think itdefinitely I think every world
championship just keeps gettingmore competitive, and I think

(01:08:24):
it's exciting for the future ofthe sport and makes me
definitely makes me excited forfuture worlds.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:32):
I think with each one as it grows, it continues to
get more popular and pop.
I think Jim kind of like made itvery apparent this year.
He's like, I'm not really surelike what this means in the
sense because like we alreadyhave a Super Bowl, but this
could also be the Super Bowl.
So I hope that like by the time2027 rolls around, like we might
we might have that a little bitmore figured out as to like what
the actual Super Bowl is intheory.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:54):
Definitely.
I do think, yeah, I do thinkworlds has room to grow.
Like, I think if you look atsome of the results of some of
the big UTMB races and you lookat like the world's short trail
and long trail, you know, Ithink you could make the
argument that UTMB, like some ofthose UTMB races were more
competitive and more deep.

(01:09:16):
Part of that could be that youknow, some people, you know, I I
I know some people did UTMB andthen didn't race as well as they
wanted to at Worlds.
Um, obviously, like that makessense.
Like you ran a really long racelike about a month ago.
Um, so I do, yeah, I think thereis room for worlds to I I think
brands need to like put more ofan emphasis on it for their

(01:09:39):
athletes of like when when it'sa worlds year, like this is
something that is like importantand super cool and that we want
you to do.
And so I think that will be abig part of worlds becoming
bigger in the future.
And I think yeah, it would, itwould, I think they would need
to like coordinate with UTMB toit's it's interesting too

(01:10:01):
because like worlds was at adifferent time of year back in
2023.
You know, it was at the start ofthe summer, which you know, for
better or for worse, um, interms of schedules, um, yeah,
there's a lot of things that canbe worked out there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:16):
Yeah.
Yeah, and then you know what'sgood is 2027, it'll be in
November.
So at least that'll I thinkthat'll make things a little bit
easier for folks.
I don't know, maybe people showup more tired or less tired.
It just depends on like where itfalls.
But I think November is a goodenough time to get healthy and
you know, and uh after the UTMBlike braces.
I think one big thing, and I'llleave it on a final note after
this, is like it's just like weneed more brands to it, just

(01:10:39):
needs to be in more contracts.
Like, I think that's the bigthing is the brands need to
recognize it.
Obviously, that's really hardbecause you know, mostly
everybody's wearing Nike ifyou're on the US team.
If you are, you know, like it'shard, you know.
Obviously, you can wear yourshoes, but we gotta figure that
out.
That way the brands can getbehind it and support the
athletes individually, and therecould be more bonuses and stuff

(01:11:00):
like that for it.
You don't need to comment onthat one, though.
We can keep that between us.
Um, but yeah.
So, dude, I gotta say thank youso much for coming on the
podcast.
This is an amazing conversation.
Uh, I'm wishing you the best ofluck on your continued return to
the sport and uh to competition.
And uh, I can't wait to see whatyou're gonna do in the in the
next few months, man.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:18):
Thanks, man.
I really appreciate it.
And yeah, it's so good tofinally be on and having this
this discussion with you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:25):
Yeah, I can't wait for round two, man.
Appreciate you.
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
What an awesome episode.
I really want to thank Mika somuch for coming on the podcast
and just being candid and beingopen and telling his story and
talking about, you know, it'salways fun to talk to athletes,
not just about running, butabout the things that you know
they like to do outside ofrunning.
So I'm really appreciative ofthe fishing stuff and you know,

(01:11:46):
just you know, him being candidand talking about himself, which
was uh I really appreciate.
Guys, the best way you cansupport Mika is to give him a
follow on Instagram.
Um, you can find him at thehandle as well as in the show
notes.
That's gonna be at Mountainunderscore man underscore Mika.
That's Mountain underscore manunderscore M-E-I-K.
Give him a follow.
You can also just type in MikalM-E-I-K-A-E-L uh Boldwin B E A U

(01:12:10):
D O I N hyphen uh Russo R O U SS E A U.
Uh I did my best there to get myFrench pronunciation down.
Um I need to take some Frenchclasses.
I'm doing my best, guys.
I'm sorry.
Um yeah.
So, guys, like I said, best wayto support Mika is to give him a
follow and uh let him know whatyou guys thought about the

(01:12:31):
episode.
I'm sure he would reallyappreciate your words of
encouragement.
I mean, you want to talk aboutsomeone that's just so mentally
strong and to be able to battleback um after having so many
false starts coming back frominjury, and you want to talk
about someone with so muchpotential and so much talent.
Um, you know, this guy putstogether a healthy season and
he's gonna be one of the best inthe world.
Uh so it's pretty cool that weum, you know, we could follow

(01:12:52):
someone like that and just howgreat he could possibly be in
our sport.
So definitely want to give himsome support.
Uh last but not least, if youguys enjoyed this episode, if
you've been enjoying thepodcast, uh please give us a
five-star rating and review onApple, Spotify, YouTube, or
wherever you consume yourpodcasts.
Um, like I said, five-starrating or give us a review.
I'd love to know what you guyslike about the podcast and what
you don't like.
Um it would really mean a lead,yeah, it would really mean a lot

(01:13:14):
to me.
The feedback is really importantso we can make some changes into
the future.
Always find some good things tomake some changes on and uh
yeah, go forward.
Last but very not least, um, ifyou guys enjoyed this episode,
want to support the podcastfurther, you can support us by
going to ultimatirection.com,our brand partner, and uh check
out what they have.
Uh, the leading company inHydration Solutions at the

(01:13:36):
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Check Ultimate Direction out.
They just dropped a newsix-liter race vest as well as a
12-liter um ultra vest.
Beautiful aesthetic colorways.
They've got some great belts outthere, the comfort belt as well
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And they just dropped a newquiver for your polls, uh, which
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(01:13:58):
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That's one word, Steep StuffPod, and then I'll get you 25%
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Tuning in, lots of good podcastsdown the way, lots of good
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Um, we've got Kyle Richardsoncoming on later this week to
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(01:14:19):
the bike in the Northeast, uh,amongst many other things, as
well as David Hedges, who'sgonna be coming on pretty soon
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So, guys, really appreciate it.
Thanks so much for tuning in.

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#122 - Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#122 - Meikael Beaudoin-Rousseau