October 13, 2025 • 48 mins
The race began before the gun—shoulder to shoulder, 12 rows deep, with a call-up protocol that flipped expectations and turned the opening meters into a high-stakes fight for position. From a fast frontage road into stairs and tight singletrack, Tyler McCandless had to manage chaos without panic: protect effort, find clean lines, and pass only when it counted. What followed was a masterclass in patience and presence—steady gains through the forest, a fierce late surge on a 30% wall to the summit, and a finish that helped Team USA lock down bronze at the World Mountain Running Championships in Confranc.
We get into the texture of Worlds that you can’t see on a results sheet: the camaraderie of sharing meals with athletes you’d never usually race alongside, the electricity of cheering other disciplines all week, and the way team identity changes how you suffer. Tyler breaks down the travel and course recon with Joe Gray, the jet lag fix that worked, and the quiet confidence that came from previewing key sections. We also revisit Broken Arrow VK—how a last-minute course change erased the runnable grind he wanted, why he still qualified under pressure, and what it feels like to crest steep singletrack with David Sinclair closing fast.
There’s gear talk too—Nike’s radical cooling long sleeve, why it’s more than a fashion statement, and how innovation is finally meeting trail reality. Then we look ahead: a winter marathon bid to punch a fifth Olympic Trials ticket (sub-2:16), plus a summer slate that fits Tyler’s engine—Sierre-Zinal, Pikes Peak Ascent, and select Golden Trail races. And we make the case for a dedicated U.S. uphill series to cultivate specialists, build team culture, and grow the fan base with short, watchable vertical races.
If you enjoy stories of resilience, smart racing on steep ground, and the power of team over self, you’ll want to queue this one up. Hit follow, share it with a trail friend, and leave a quick review—what part of Tyler’s strategy would you try on your next climb?
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Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Lauriello.
Today I'm so excited to bringyou guys an episode with Tyler
McCannless.
Just back from competing at theWorld Mountain Running
Championship in Con FrankPinheiros.
Tyler was a competitor in theuphill category.
He actually helped his team, hewas a scoring member for the
(00:20):
U.S.
men's team, where Tyler helpedthe team achieve a bronze medal
overall, as well as Tylercompeted himself to a 26 place
finish in that race.
Really exciting to get to talkto Tyler and kind of debrief the
race in its entirety.
Lot of differences between anormal competition and a race
like this, where it's just thisrace seemed a lot more chaotic
(00:41):
and just a lot more going on.
Lots of bottlenecks and hardopportunities to pass, and Tyler
found himself kind of in a lotof adversity early on in the
race and kind of you know kindof debriefed that and uh how he
was able to work his way back upinto the mix and become a
scoring member for the US men'steam.
Um lots of good stuff there.
We also got into some debrief ofBroken Arrow where Tyler earned
(01:03):
his spot on the US men's team.
We talked about how that raceunfolded, being shortened from a
VK down to um about half thedistance, and what that was like
on race day when things hadchanged and he was able to kind
of adjust and earn his spot.
Um lots of good stuff there.
Yeah, Tyler's an amazing human.
Um we also talk about anotherOlympic qualifier that he's
gonna chase for 2026, which isuh exciting as well.
(01:26):
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
Tyler's story is an amazing one.
Uh, I think he brings a lot of areally good perspective about
what it's like to go compete umover in worlds, especially from
someone that's only representedthe stars and stripes once, um,
just the differences in a worldversus other races where you can
compete um for the US.
And um, yeah, just what it'slike.
(01:47):
So lots of good perspectivethere, and I'm genuinely
appreciative for Tyler's time.
So without further ado, I hopeyou enjoy this one.
Tyler McCannless.
(03:01):
Tyler McCannlist, welcome backto this Deep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Uh it's going really well.
It's great to be back on, James.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Yeah, no, I'm I'm so excited.
We we kind of had preliminaryplanned this.
I screwed up our scheduling, sothis kind of worked out
significantly.
Uh I I almost like the format ofthis better that we're getting
to chat and catch uppost-worlds, which is uh
obviously you just returned fromCon Frank uh competing on the
vertical team, or I should I sayuphill.
I think it's probably the betterway to say it.
(03:30):
Um, dude, first reactions afterthe race.
Like, how are you feeling?
And and what what's theemotional level like?
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Yeah, I I was nervous being away from the
family for like 10 days, but youknow, everything was great at
home.
And coming back, I've I've neverbeen so inspired by being a part
of a team and running andcompeting for something that's
way more than you know apersonal glory or personal goal.
It was such and you knew it wasgoing to be a team atmosphere,
(04:00):
but coming back, I'm just uhextraordinarily inspired to
continue to compete as well as Ican on the trails and hopefully
make the team in two years forSouth Africa and Cape Town, um,
because it was that incredibleof a experience.
SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
Wow.
So it it's interesting to me.
I I don't talk to too many folksthat have had bad experiences at
at these events.
Like everyone, it seems likelike Jeff Colt was a great
example because he came backfrom worlds, I think I can't
remember if it was, I think itwas Chiang Mai, and was like the
stoke was so high, he wasrecruiting people to go out and
try out for these uh, you know,these teams and and you know,
(04:37):
really get people behind worlds.
What is it about it that makesit so special?
Is it the representation of thestars and stripes?
Is it is the team aspect of it?
Because I know you know we'reall kind of old, like it you
it's not often anymore we can beon a team, right?
Like, what is it that's sospecial about like the World
Mountain Running Championship?
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah, I and I was in a very fortunate position with
the vertical.
You race first, right?
And then I have three days ofcheering on my teammates in the
short trail, the long trail, theclassic, the U20.
Meanwhile, you're like havingmeals with everyone and getting
to know them.
And like I would never have beenat the same race as Jim
(05:17):
Walmsley, for example.
Yet we're at the MountainClassic out on the course, both
of us with our phones watchingthe live stream, talking about
it, getting excited for like howthe US team is doing and ready
to cheer for them when they comethrough the next time.
It's just like you don't havethose experiences in a race, any
race you like sign up and go to.
(05:38):
So there's just somethingspecial around worlds where like
you are all rallying together.
And again, I was very lucky tocompete in the first event and
then being able to be like morerelaxed to come, you know, cheer
everyone on.
But like everyone came out forthe mountain classic on the last
day and the U20, and therepresentation you had across
(05:58):
the team was just incredible.
And you know, it gets you backto like competing in college,
and you're at a track meet, andthe four by four is the last
event, and everyone's comingthere and like cheering on you
know the team to like earn asmany points for a conference,
um, conference positioning.
So, like, I think everyone'sstoke is really high because you
(06:18):
leave on that note of likeeveryone rallies together,
you've all competed hard, andhonestly, across all the race
disciplines, we like competedreally well as a team.
Like we did.
It was really impressive.
So it was also like just a likeAmerica's very good at trail
running, and we justdemonstrated that.
So, yeah, I think all of thosetogether just made it a super
(06:41):
exciting um finish to the event.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
I love it.
I love it.
All right, let's talk, let'stalk about the race, let's talk
about the venue as well andtravel.
Like, how hard was it to get outthere?
Was it smooth?
I know for some, like you're,for instance, like your team
member Christian had like areally rough day trying to get
out there.
Um, how was it for you uh as faras flights and everything?
And how far ahead of time didyou did you arrive?
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Yeah, I uh um was on a flight that left on a Friday,
got there Saturday.
We were pretty much on time, ahalf an hour delayed, something
like that.
I rented a car and Joe Gray wason the same flight.
So then we hopped in the car andwe drove literally three and a
half hours straight to the startof the course, and we ran the
uphill course.
It was supposed to rain hard thenext day on Sunday.
(07:27):
So we were like, well, let's seethe course before it rains.
So, you know, him and I gotthere Saturday at like 6 p.m.
and we ran the course on the waydown.
It got really dark, ended upgetting out my phone at night
and like trying to navigate thefinal few miles downhill.
Joe fell a couple times.
It was an experience to say theleast.
Um, but being able to see thewhole course on Saturday before
(07:50):
I competed on the next Thursdaywas really great.
And then, you know, jet lag isreal going across to Europe.
So like I'd wake up in themiddle of the night, like wide
awake at 2:30 in the morning orso.
But after a few days, you kindof got into the rhythm.
So like I felt well rested andreally good by racing on
Thursday.
So yeah, I got to see the fullcourse once, got to see it the
(08:13):
start and a few miles of itagain, two more times.
So I felt like pretty preparedfor what I knew the course was
gonna be like.
Um, and yeah, the travelotherwise was pretty smooth for
getting there.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
How was it was it difficult?
Like, I feel like if I was outthere tapering and like getting
ready for a race like this, Iwould wanna.
It's almost like hard to not gorun all the trails and see all
the mountains and like kind ofdo all the stuff.
Was that like a hard pull foryou, or was it I'm locked in,
the team is locked in, likewe're just getting ready for
game day?
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Um, that's a good question.
I think the hardest pull wasChristian text me, he's like,
hey, let's do a workout, liketune up.
I'm just gonna do some threeminute reps.
I'm like, oh, perfect.
This is on Monday before therace on Thursday.
Um, and then of course, like weran the first two reps like way
too fast.
And I was like, all right, Igotta pull back.
Like I am racing in like youknow, 72 hours or whatever it
(09:06):
was at that point.
Um, but I think like I waspretty locked into I need to
race this course really well,and then I'll have time being
able to see the other coursesand experience other trails and
run other things after that.
So yeah, I didn't have too muchof a pull to the trail.
I did have the pull to runningtoo fast in my final workout,
but fair enough.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
How was uh how was the venue like situationally?
Um, like room like being youknow, getting set up with
roommates and um the sleepsituation and the food
situation, like how was it foryou guys?
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
It was really good.
The the downside was you know, Idefinitely wanted to get out
there early to preview thecourse, and then the team
housing started the day beforethe uphill competition.
So, you know, we on our own tofigure it out.
So I moved from an Airbnb to ahotel to a different hotel, you
know, in like the first fourdays of being there.
So it was a lot of bouncingaround.
(10:02):
But then the team hotel wasterrific, they had all the meals
for us.
Um, and it was pretty coolbecause it was like cafeteria
type setting, and there was abunch of different countries
with um each country's like nameon the different table.
So it's like fun that you werekind of like getting to know
some of the other countries orat least around them and seeing
their vibes um as well.
(10:24):
And then there was a shuttlethat took folks from we stayed
in the town of Hakka toConfranc.
Um, I was fortunate to have therental car, so it was like
really simple to drive like 20minutes to get to Confranc.
Confranc's a really small town.
Um, I stayed in there for thefirst few days to like run the
course and be in there, and itwas like just a couple of
(10:44):
restaurants, like not really afull grocery store.
You know, it's a very smallsetting, but it was really easy
to hit the trails.
It was pretty beautiful venue,like mountains on all sides.
Um, so uh yeah, logistics arepretty simple.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Very cool.
Let's get into the team dynamic.
Uh, obviously, this isn't thefirst time you and Christian, as
well as you and Joe, like youand Joe, for the most part, have
been competitors for a reallylong time.
Like it's been a few years now.
And then on top of that, you'vealso been teammates.
What was this dynamic like?
I know Joe likes to, at leastI've known Joe for previous
years to always been a big gameplanner, kind of plan stuff
(11:22):
ahead of time.
Was that the same vibes thistime or or was it different?
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Um, you know, Cam Smith is probably one of like
the most social and organizedfolks.
So like he certainly rallied usto get together in the summer,
and um, we hosted like seven,seven or eight folks in
Bunavista for a weekend and itgot to run the trails.
So one of the things that wasreally nice, more than just the
(11:47):
vertical team, but across the USteam, like I already knew Mason
Coppy pretty well and TaylorStack and Cam.
So there was already some levelof like a friendship and all of
us being excited to competetogether.
And then, as you said, like Joeand I have competed against each
other for you know more than adecade in various race
disciplines.
So we knew each other reallywell, and that was like easy to
travel together to um get to thecourse and run together.
(12:10):
And then I've raced Christian abunch, and um, he was my
roommate in in Con Frank.
So it was just it was prettysimple to always have um
teammates around.
And we we didn't really talkstrategically as like a group
before of us of like how we weregonna like specifically race it.
Um, but we all knew we were justshooting, we were all very fit
(12:31):
and ready and excited to try tocompete at the front.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
I love it.
I can't say enough good thingsabout Cam.
Love Cam.
He's uh he's an amazing human.
Um on the topic of Cam and onthe topic of the Buena Vista
camp that you guys did, can youtalk a little bit about that and
like the experience and just howfun it was to get to meet
everybody and spend time witheveryone?
And I because I feel like thosetypes of things maybe had been
(12:57):
missing from teams in previousyears, and I think it's really
important to the culture of ateam for winning medals and and
just the cohesiveness.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Yeah, you know, I was talking with Paul Kirsch and
Tom Hooper um after the event,and one of their observations
was this team gelled togetherquicker than some of the other
teams.
And I do think us getting ustogether for a weekend of just
running and catching up anddrinking coffee together before
running, like all of that likereally helped because we were we
(13:29):
were maybe way more cohesive,and it was easier to be like um
sharing rides to places andgoing to preview the course
together in Con Frank.
And um, it really you just feltlike more like a team going to
there instead of like learningwho your team is once you're
there.
So I do think that that made abig difference.
And you know, we were we rolledreally deep on that one specific
(13:53):
training run in Buna Vista whenlike Noah Williams showed up,
and there was a few other goodrunners and Adrian, and like we
had like 12 of the best runnersin the US all like doing a four
plus hour run and trying to bagtwo 14ers.
It was um it was pretty epic.
So yeah, I think that that addeda lot to the dynamic and being a
(14:13):
part of a team before like wewere all together um in Con
Frank.
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
And I like I said, it it just plays so much to the
cohesiveness and probablycontributed in a lot of ways.
I mean, obviously, there's somuch talent on these teams now.
The American teams like we senta squad this year, uh deep on
every roster.
But at the same time, I thinkthe cohesiveness of everyone
knowing each other, fighting forone another, and wanting to, you
know, perform well on race day,not just for you know their
(14:40):
country, but also more so justfor their team to score.
I think that made that made ayou makes a huge difference.
So very cool.
Um let's let's talk about therace.
I want to pivot a little bitinto the race itself, and I want
to open the door for you to kindof talk about how it unfolded,
everything from the warm-up tothe start, nerves.
Give me give me the wholeplay-by-play.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Yeah, so the race started, all the other races
started and finished by thetrain station in Confranc.
Our race started, it was abouttwo kilometers outside of town.
Um, and it was kind of like aalmost like a frontage road in
front of like a small hotel,quickly became a gravel road,
and then you hit the trail,probably about 600 meters of
(15:22):
running before that.
So for warm-up, we um got a ridefrom team staff, went to the
train station, we warmed up.
It was flat there, access tobathroom, really simple.
Hopped in the car, got therelike 35-ish minutes before the
start.
Before um we had to go throughwill call that gave us a little
(15:42):
more time to jog around.
Then about 20 minutes out, weall have to get like our
uniforms checked at the sametimes.
We were required to carry anemergency rain jacket with us.
So we had to like show that tothe team staff as well.
Um and yeah, then we got throughthe the will call.
We're in track, you call it likethe paddock area.
(16:04):
So, like kind of the fenced-offarea where all the athletes are.
You could jog around a littlebit, it was a pretty tight spot.
Um, we were told that they wouldonly have one athlete per
country at the start line.
My background, I interpretedthat as like cross-country
style, where like you would haveone athlete and then line up in
a row behind them.
In reality, the race picked sixor eight athletes that they were
(16:27):
gonna like call up to the front.
So, like Christian Allen wascalled up, I think uh Patrick or
Philemon.
There was a few athletes, Remy,of course, was called up to the
start.
And then it was just afree-for-all of like who lined
up behind.
So I didn't have thatexpectation that it was gonna be
like people lining up to get agood position at the start line
(16:48):
15 to 20 minutes before the racestart.
So, like I got there about 12minutes before, and I was like
12 rows deep of people, andEuropeans just like get really
close.
Like, there was like no likewiggle room to kind of just like
work my way up.
I've run Olympic trialsmarathons, New York City
(17:08):
marathons, Chicago.
I've always been on like thefirst or second row, like it's
never like hard to get up, andthis was like impossible to get
a good starting position.
So the race, when it started,it's like a little bit of luck
of like how fast the peopleright in front of you also go
out.
And I just got stuck in theback.
And it was then me like swimmingupstream, trying to pass people
(17:32):
while running under five minutepace, going up this slope.
I like my watch was bumped, soit stopped.
So then I didn't have like aknowledge of like where I was at
in the race because I didn'tnotice that until I was like
almost a mile into the race.
So anyway, it's like it getspretty narrow, and then you make
a sharp left-hand turn up thesestairs, and it becomes single
(17:57):
track, and it just packed up tothe point that in the beginning
I was like walking up the hill,and there's like a distinct
point in the race where I waslike, my heart rate's not even
high.
I like can't go faster.
You couldn't go around becauseit was like in the trees at that
point, too.
So there's not really like roomto move around the single track
(18:18):
if somebody's slower in front ofyou, and then it's just like a
line of people because there's ahundred and sixty-ish
competitors, and everyone's kindof packed up at that point.
So I was unfortunately likepretty far back, and it was one
of those points where you'relike, Can I salvage this race?
Like, is this race like so farin front of me now that I'm like
(18:39):
in a tough spot?
And then about a mile in, Icaught Joe, and Joe was clearly
just not having a great day.
And it was like, all right, sofrom a team perspective, there's
two of us here we're like in theback half of the race.
This is probably not boding wellfor our team position.
But you know, I just like keptkeeping on and being present and
(19:00):
just trying to move past anyoneI could whenever I could.
And by the time we got to abouttwo and a half miles, it starts
to open up a little bit more.
You get out of the trees, you'reable to have like some more
areas that you can pass on.
The single track there wasreally narrow.
So it wasn't like a single trackthat you could still get around
(19:23):
people.
You had to go off the singletrack really to pass.
So, like at that point, youcould do that more freely.
And the people that went outhard were starting to fade.
So then it was easier to getaround.
And I just kept moving and itjust kept moving and passing
people.
And I had um a really good lastmile and a half where I was
charging up through the field.
(19:44):
You get to the 600 meters to go,and the it's a 30% grade, and
it's really steep.
And the crowds there, you gofrom the trees where there's
like nobody to all of a suddenthere being like a ton of people
that took the chairlift up thatare there cheering.
And I'm still like movingthrough, passing some people.
(20:05):
It was still like a pretty largenumber of people in the general
um area I was.
I get to the top, and me and aSpanish guy were like fighting
to get to the right position.
I get around him and I see liketwo people that I'm like, no way
can I catch him.
But I start just sprinting and Iclose the gap and I pass both of
them like right before thefinish.
(20:26):
So it's like really rewardingthat I, you know, I don't know
if I've had a race ever start sobad.
And like I in hindsight, I couldhave got a better position at
the start.
And I I didn't do that.
I didn't, I wasn't aware that Ishould have like got to the
start line 20 minutes and justwaited.
Um, and that would have helpedme more than like doing a few
(20:46):
more strides.
Um, so hindsight 2020, learnedquite a bit there.
But like to continue justkeeping on and just to keep
believing, and then to dig topass those couple of people,
finish.
You know, I find Christian herehe that he had a great run and
was fourth.
I find um Cam, here he was 11th,find out I was 26th, and we're
(21:11):
like on Nancy Hobbes' phone,just like finding the results
and trying to add up the team.
And we like thought we weresilver for a little bit, and
then realized Switzerland hadsilver and we were bronze.
But it was like an incrediblyrewarding experience where 30
minutes before I was like, thisteam is having a really terrible
day.
To this team just earned a medalat the World Championships.
(21:32):
It was a pretty remarkable, um,remarkable experience.
SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
Cathartic.
I think cathartic too, becauseyou start.
How were the nerves essentiallywhen you realized you were that
far back?
Were you was it frustration?
Like, were you trying to keepyour cool and maintain your
positivity?
Because I feel like if for acompetitor, like I would be very
frustrated.
And it's like, how do you keepthose feelings in check and just
do everything you possibly canto keep the, you know, keep calm
(21:58):
and still move your way up?
Like, how are you able to likekind of like pull yourself back
together on that?
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
I think I did a good job of just being where my feet
were and like just focusing onlike immediately, like, how do I
get around the guy in front ofme?
How do I get around the next guyin front of him?
Thinking about like, oh, ifthere was a straightaway coming
up, I would like quickly think,okay, I could surge around this
left side and get around twoguys.
Like, and I think by just likefocusing on the very simple,
(22:26):
like, what's the most immediatenext thing I can do to move up
in the field?
I didn't have like anoverwhelming sense of
frustration because I wasn'tplanning or thinking ahead.
The few times that like it cameto me of like, oh, we're in a
bad position as a team.
I just like reoriented aroundlike pass the next guy, keep
moving forward.
People will have probably goneout too hard, and like I didn't
(22:48):
go out too hard.
So, you know, I think if youlook on on Strava, the last like
mile and a half, I was a secondfaster than Christian Allen.
Yeah, he beat me by like threeminutes.
So, like there was a big gapthere.
And I think that justrepresentative of like you can
make it up, right?
(23:09):
Like it took a while before Iwas able to get in position.
And I don't think if I wouldhave been on the start line, I
would have been fifth place.
Like, I don't think I like endedup losing that much because I
just stayed present and didn'tget frustrated by it and start
like thinking about how the endresult was gonna be.
I crossed the finish line and Ididn't know if I was 12th or
42nd.
(23:29):
Like I had like no idea, right?
I'm like, Jason, can you help meout?
The Jason um who was on the teamstaff, like, can you help me
out?
And like, where did I finish?
And he's like, I'm trying topull up results.
So that was a unique umexperience.
But that like gets down to likenot caring as much about your
specific place and end result.
(23:49):
And I just knew like I battledthrough what I could to do the
best to help support the team aswell as I could, and that is a
really amazing experience thatgoes beyond like a specific
place.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
That's amazing.
And it's interesting too.
I I can ask you this becauseI've seen videos, I've never
raced in Europe.
It's on the it's on the list.
And I I mean, from a race whereit's super tight like that,
especially where it looked likethere was a lot of bottleneck um
when it transitioned onto thesingle track and going up, it
seems like guys are throwingelbows, you gotta like not like
(24:23):
in a in a like not purposely,but it just seems like it's
chaos, like uh in in a more agreaggressive, if you will.
How are you able to avoid thatand just kind of move your way
like through some of thesepeople?
Because I know people don't liketo be passed.
Like that's and this is thehighest stakes in a race if
there are, you know, if thereare stakes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
Yeah, uh it kind of happens so fast that it like I
didn't have time to like feelanxious about it.
It just like was chaos, and youjust like made it through the
chaos to the other side whereyou were then in a a line on the
single track.
So yeah, it was a veryinteresting you know, race
perspective.
And then you could see peoplewho who got freaked out by it.
(25:08):
There was specific, no,specifically two Uganda guys who
came absolutely flying by me,like halfway through the race.
And it was like, whoa, wherewere they before?
How are they moving so fast?
And then one guy pulls up, grabsa side, and starts walking, and
the other one slows downdrastically.
(25:28):
So, like, I think that was acase where they probably got a
little overanxious about notbeing in a good spot and then
tried too hard to make it up andthen faded.
When I I think I had just like agood mindset of like, I'm just
gonna focus on passing the nextperson in front of me and the
next person, and not trying todo anything too drastic to make
(25:49):
up for that chaos that truly wasuh a half mile into the race.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
It's crazy.
Was there any takeaways like asa not just as a competitor, but
as someone that knows the sport,like Remy doing as advertised,
Patrick, you know, being not theworld champion this year, being
you know, right off.
Um, anything that like stuck outto you as takeaways from this
specific competition after thefact?
Obviously, you're in it, so yousee things play out.
(26:16):
Was there anybody like that justamazed you or like under like
did what you thought was gonnahappen?
I don't know.
It's kind of a weird question.
It's just that as an athlete inthe sport and as a fan, it's you
know, these are also interestingthings.
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
Yeah, you know, I I think it just really good
examples are how Christian racedand how Cam raced.
Like Cam didn't get at the startline.
He he did a very nice job ofmoving up through the field
earlier and better than I did.
And then he ran just bloodytough the whole time, you know,
(26:50):
and he he took 11th in the worldbecause he came in really fit.
He was a gamer, he was like spoton ready.
You know, Christian reallybelieved he could try to win a
world championship and raced totry to win a world championship.
Um, and it's fun to see wherelike confidence meets
opportunity and it comesthrough.
And I was just thrilled forthose guys on like having the
(27:13):
race that they were capable ofon that day.
Um, and I think you could kindof see that across all the
competitions of like people thatcame in that were like game on
and ready and believed and didsomething special.
You know, uh Anna Gibson, ofcourse, being a great example of
that, getting third, LaurenGregory and how she ran the
Mountain Classic and like wasclosing down and chasing down
(27:35):
people at the end and ran, Ithink her last kilometer faster
than most of the guys did.
Like I think those were some ofthe examples that like really
stood out.
And it's more of thatcombination of racing and
mindset um that I think I Ilearned quite a bit from.
So cool.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Let's uh let's talk about like when you guys
realized that you had medaled,like when you realized that it
was gonna be be a thing.
What was the feeling likestanding on that stage, getting
the medal, you know, standing inthe stars and stripes,
everybody, you know, you'regetting cheered on, you're
getting to talk with otherathletes, um, you know, from
other countries.
(28:14):
Like, what was what was thatfeeling like?
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
Yeah, I think it's helpful to to know when we
finish, we're at the top of themountain, and you can take the
cherry lift down, andChristian's like, oh, I'm gonna
run down to try to get somemiles.
You want to join?
So I'm like, all right, I'll,you know, I'll join.
You know, I don't have my cellphone, like my cell phone's back
at the the bag before uh thestart of the race.
So like I have to run and getback to Cahn Frank to I could
(28:39):
like look at my phone to see theresults, all of that.
So like we thought we had like asilver medal at that point, and
I was still like, race resultsare never like immediate and
accurate, like things alwayschange, and I'm like, somebody's
bib probably didn't work.
Like, you never know.
Um, plus, we didn't like haveactual team scores, we were just
trying to like do the math oflike the flags we saw of the
(29:02):
people in the top 30 that wethought would um be tough teams.
So we start running down, andI'm thinking this is like a
three or four mile run down themountain on a forest service
road, and it ended up being a 10mile run to get back to
Campbreak.
I had like four sips of a cokeat the top, and then like after
running the race and ran 10miles back down, I was like so
(29:23):
toasted by the end.
And then we got down and weheard um that we were bronze,
and the results were lookingmore like finalized and
official, but the award ceremonywasn't until 7 p.m.
So, like, honestly, I likecalled my wife Kristen and like
talked to her when she wasawake.
And I'm still like nervous oflike, are these results gonna
(29:44):
come in and like France had anactual guy in tent that wasn't
recorded and like we droppeddown to fourth or something?
So it didn't really feel realuntil we got to the award
ceremony.
The officials put us on um somestadium bleachers.
Until we were brought up onstage.
And they did a great job of likehaving a real medal presentation
(30:06):
ceremony on a stage, music,jamming, getting the crowd into
it.
It was a pretty like large crowdfor an award ceremony.
And yeah, it was just like itwas a really amazing experience.
To be honest, my my high schooldidn't win any team
competitions.
At Penn State, we were good.
We like made NCAs incross-country, but we never won
(30:28):
like a conference title or likepodiumed.
So I think this is like thefirst time I've been on a podium
as part of a team.
And that happens at the age of38 at the World Championships in
trail running.
So it was like it was a prettysurreal experience.
I think Cam made the comment oflike, the podium isn't meant for
people like us.
Of just like, you know, we'realways like in the audience
(30:49):
looking at the folks going up onstage.
So yeah, it was a really specialthing.
And then Anna got her um bronzemedal individually.
Then like we took photos, and itwas just like really cool to
have starting the competitionwith that as a team getting a a
medal.
It was uh yeah, it was a bitsurreal.
It was cool.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
So cool.
So you've been on a lot ofpodiums, man.
You've done a lot of amazingthings in your career.
Where does where does this onerank for you?
Like, is it is it different?
Is it better?
Is it worse?
Like, where does it kind of fallon the the ranking for you?
SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
You know, I I thought I've thought deeply on
that as well.
And it was a a challengingsummer with like health stuff in
the family, work challenges,training challenges.
It just like to perseverethrough all of that, to have the
support from family and friends.
My wife threw me like a goodluck in Spain surprise party
(31:49):
where like 30 of my friends thatshowed up that I hadn't even
seen some of them in a coupleyears.
Uh it was like the amount ofsupport before, during, and
after was just so special.
And then to come away with theteam medal and to do it where
like I had to really dig andagain like persevere through
(32:12):
like beginning mistakes in thatrace and then come back.
Um, it was so rewarding and morerewarding than most, if not all,
of like an individual raceresult that turned out really
well.
So, you know, it's definitely onmy podium of my running career
in terms of experiences.
Um, and yeah, I'm just verythankful for everyone.
(32:35):
Immense amount of gratitude foreveryone that's helped and
supported and encouraged umalong the way.
So cool, man.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Beautiful answer.
Did you get one of those coolNike shirts, the the flowy ones?
I shouldn't say they're cool,they're kind of weird.
But like, did you did you didyou bring home one of those?
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
The radical cooling technology, yes, I do have one
of those.
Um yeah, pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
Um what's your like initial reactions on one of
those things?
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
You know, uh it is a big shout out to to Nike and
supporting innovation.
And not that Nike hasn'tinnovated in the past, of course
they have, but like they'rereally putting more emphasis
into the trail and ultra-runningcommunity and innovating in
apparel and in shoes.
And I think that's just gonnaraise the bar for everyone.
(33:22):
Um, they work like incrediblywell, not like a warned in a hot
um environment, but likeeveryone loved them that raced
in them, and it's it's a prettyamazing thing.
As a scientist myself, it's likethey they made a long sleeve
shirt that acts to cool you morethan like a super lightweight
(33:42):
singlet does.
Like it's a pretty neat spot tobe in the sport to like see
those things coming, and I thinkit's only gonna um continue to
bring more people into trail andultra running, and yeah,
thankful for their support ofthe team.
It's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
I mean, and it's a fashion statement.
Like, I should have asked you towear it for the podcast.
Those things are dope.
Uh Mikelito, I think Mikelitoposted a picture with him and
Noah and Tom, or maybe Tomposted it.
I was like, like, what an oddshirt.
But like, less it man, if itworks and it's innovative, by
all means, I think it's kind ofneat.
SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
It it stands out, it brings some attention, that's
for sure.
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
What's uh the reaction after the fact?
Are you gonna take somedowntime?
Are you training for like areyou gonna start a new block for
something next?
Or what's uh you know, what'snext for you?
SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
Yeah, so excitingly, the Olympic Marathon trials uh
qualification window opened onSeptember 1st.
So it's open for two and a halfyears, so there's like a long
time.
But this would be my fifthOlympic marathon trials if I
qualified.
So I'm gonna pick a wintermarathon, have you know road
season, focus on running sub 216in the marathon, making a fifth.
(34:52):
I don't know how many peoplehave ever made five consecutive
Olympic marathon trials.
So that that is a big goal.
And then I'm I'm more excitedthan ever to really rip it on
the trails again next year.
I'd like to try a few morecompetitive races.
Like I think Sears and all fitsmy uh fitness and capabilities
really well, starting withbasically like a double VK and
(35:14):
then a a little bit more of likea road race-esque feel.
Like I feel like I could performwell there.
So that's in August of nextyear.
Um, we'll see if there's like aNACAC team or any other teams to
make um for the US.
I would definitely be veryinterested in that.
Of course, it not being aworld's year.
Um, don't know if I'll dabble inlike a 50K or try something
(35:35):
longer, but I definitely want toexplore and run some more trail
races.
So the earlier I can try to getthat Olympic marathon trials
qualifier, the earlier I getback to racing on the trails
again.
Um so excited for a road season,but also like really excited for
what next summer on the trailscould bring.
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
Oh, I love it, man.
I love for what's possibly hit,especially seeing you at series
and all, just because yourmarathoning background and just
everything you've done on theroads, like I feel like such a
good intersection with youruphilling ability, that would be
really cool.
And then, yeah, there's a lot ofgood like golden trail stuff I
could see you doing that I thinkwould be a really good fit, not
just series and all.
So yeah, I'll definitely uhwe'll well we'll definitely talk
(36:15):
before then.
So I do I do want to travel alittle bit back in time because
we didn't get a chance to talkafter Broken Arrow where you got
fourth at the VK.
Um, I just want to get like justan initial reaction and talk a
little bit about maybe justrehash that race as well.
Um, just to for theproverbializing on the cake.
I that was a very difficultrace, like especially the fact
(36:37):
that they changed the course.
There was a lot of likehecticness around it.
Um obviously it wasn't a full3,000-foot course.
How did that play out for you?
Like what obviously that wasthat was a tough race.
SPEAKER_01 (36:50):
Yeah, uh what was interesting about that was this
is another one where it's like,all right, I gotta get out and
see the course.
I had never done the brokenarrow ascent before.
So I was like, I need to seethis.
If I'm gonna try to make a team,it's like really important to
understand the course.
So we got out there on a let'ssee, there I think the race was
on a Friday.
I got out there on like a Mondaynight, so I could see it on
(37:11):
Tuesday.
I ran most of the course.
I saved the final bit.
Um, that wasn't as important,but I got to see like
three-fourths of the course ofwhat I thought was the course.
And then I was like, I lovethis.
Like the section, there's like alonger section, it's probably
like a mile, mile and a half.
That's more of like a steepservice road that like is my
(37:34):
jam.
It's like what I just love.
It's like grinding as hard as Ican uphill on runnable terrain.
And then they're like, oh, theweather's bad.
We're gonna shift the course andmove it.
So basically, like just the skislope that I ran was the same as
what um I ended up running inthe race.
(37:54):
So it was a little like, allright, day before, I have a
whole new course to do, I don'thave time to preview it, and I'm
just gonna, you know, competethe the best I can on a
shortened course as well.
I think it was like 1800 feetagain instead of like 3,000
feet.
So I'm like, all right, it'sgonna go out really fast, and
then you're gonna have to likebattle through.
(38:15):
And um the final bit was on moresingle track.
So I kind of knew the the startwould be like a lot of chaos, a
lot of people going fast, butit's a steep enough slope that I
felt like things would work itsway out, and they pretty much
did.
By the time we got to the dirtroad, which was about like less
(38:38):
than half a mile rather thanlike a mile and a half of kind
of where I like really loved thecourse, I was in like 10th to
12th place.
But ironically enough, it waslike Cam Smith, Joe, and I like
packed up.
Um, and folks like uh Killianwent out too hard, um, Andy was
up there, and we kind of justlike moved up through the pack.
(39:01):
And by the time we got to thesingle track with about a mile
to go, it was the four positionsof Christian, then Joe, and then
Cam and I.
And um I kind of just stayedpretty much in that fourth
position.
Cam and I traded going back andforth a couple of times.
Um, at mile, I'd say with liketwo minutes left of running, I
(39:24):
was in fourth and I had seen ajersey behind me that was like a
darker jersey.
And the whole time I thought itwas Killian because he was the
last person I passed before wegot to the single track.
And it turned out it was likeDavid Sinclair.
Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_00 (39:36):
It's the worst that's the worst person you went
breathing down your neck.
SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
I'm like, oh goodness, like the US spot is
not locked up, right?
So, like, then it got a littlebit more stressful until like
finally crossing the finish linein fourth and knowing I had a
spot on the team locked up.
So, yeah, that was a veryinteresting race, I think, in
hindsight.
Um I don't know if I I wouldhave loved to see the course
(40:00):
beforehand.
And a lot of those guys have runat Broken Arrow before and knew
that trail because it used to bepart of the 23k course, and I
was just blind to what wascoming up ahead, and there was
some like technical ridgelinetype stuff, and the steepness
changed a few times.
It would have been reallyhelpful to see it.
Um, I think I would have I wouldhave enjoyed the longer course
(40:21):
and a little I know the top ofthat gets um pretty technical,
uh, but like I really would haveenjoyed the original Broken
Arrow course.
So you know maybe I'll have togo back this year even if it's
not a next year, even thoughit's not a qualifying and see
what I can really rip on it.
But yeah, it was a really greatday because the four of us were
we thought we were hopefuls tomake the team, and then we ended
(40:44):
up making the team and thencompeting with all the others.
So it's um yeah, it was aspecial day that day as well.
So cool, man.
SPEAKER_00 (40:50):
So cool.
Yeah, I and it's funny youbrought up David Sinclair
because I was gonna mention thatI'm like, that's the last person
I would want breathing down likeon my back, especially given the
season he had too.
Like, man, that's it's so cooltoo.
Like, dude, like you beatKillian in a race.
That's that's pretty neat.
Like, I don't know, like that'sthat's something I would think
about that be like, well, it'ssomething you don't do every
day.
So pretty neat.
SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
Yeah, I wish he would have had a better second
half though.
Like he like he really, hereally faded.
But yeah, the other thing thatyou don't realize in other
races, like if it was a flatroad race, I would have thought
I had a big gap on DavidSinclair.
But when you're going up like areally steep slope, like
lengthwise, you're not that farapart, right?
(41:32):
You're just like not moving asfast.
So like it's also like prettyterrifying when you're like
going super slow up this steepmountain, and like somebody's
like pretty close behind you,and it's you can't gauge is that
like five seconds or 25 secondsof a gap.
So yeah, that's um it gets you alittle anxious towards the top
(41:53):
there.
SPEAKER_00 (41:53):
Yeah, dude, racing is so much fun.
I love the sport.
It's that stuff is so nuts.
Um, it it's gonna beinteresting.
I don't know what's gonna happennext year, but we'll see what
the US Mountain RunningChampionship turns out to be.
I would guess it's gonna be, Imean, it could be broken arrow.
I know they try and stay awayfrom altitude races on off
years, but then again, it wasSnowbird uh two years ago, was
(42:15):
it?
Yeah, two years ago in 24.
Well, technically a year ago.
But yeah, maybe we'll see whathappens.
I mean, maybe it'll be anotherCirque series race, maybe it'll
be broken arrow or somethingnext year.
So it the uh the sky's thelimit.
It's gonna be fun.
I can't believe we're alreadytalking about we're in
September, October, and we'realready talking about next
summer already.
SPEAKER_01 (42:32):
So well, the one one thing um I I talked with a few
folks like uh Hillary and Alanand I had a long discussion of
this.
Is we have a vertical disciplineat the World Championships, yet
we don't have a vertical likeseries of competitions in the
US.
And I would love if CirqueSeries and others would put
(42:52):
together some VK style races.
It doesn't have to be exactlyyou know a kilometer of incline,
but like let's get some moreuphill only races and get people
excited about this as like adiscipline for that you can
compete at the worldchampionships at because it is
really fun and it's an amazingtest of fitness.
(43:14):
Um, so yeah, we need to have a aUS series and a US championship
as well for the uphill.
Uh that would be really great.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
I think you would catch on too.
I mean, you could do it at skiresorts more or less.
You just have to find the onesthat have somewhere between two
and three K of vertical, and youknow, they could take the ski
lift down, if anything.
So I I think you would actuallycatch on with the fan base.
Like you see broken arrow, yousee the rut.
I mean, the rut really, youknow, goes hard on theirs.
Broken arrow, it always sellsout.
Um, yeah, I think it would besuper popular if you could if we
(43:44):
could figure out some sort ofseries.
Dude, I've looked into it.
It it can be done.
It's just a matter of, I don'tknow, if Julian has the
infrastructure to be able topull that off and like make it
like tangible.
So it would be cool.
I'd also like to see them do aschemo one too, like a schemo
series that's like a mountainclassic schemo series in the
winter to kind of complementwhat they do in the um, you
know, in the summer.
(44:04):
So yeah, there's a lot ofopportunity, man.
There's I I think people thinkthat like, oh, with UTMB and all
that, it's uh there's more, Iguess you could say
monopolization in the sport, butI think that's the opposite.
There's so much more to do uhwith more vertical stuff.
So yeah, I'd love to see it.
We gotta recruit, we gotta getyou doing Pike's Peak.
I think you would do amazing inthe ascent.
I think next year we need toneed to make that happen.
SPEAKER_01 (44:26):
The Pikes Peak Ascent, I think Zeros and all
are the two races that I'm like,those are the kind of like they
should be must-dos on myschedule for next year without
having a world championship setslike you know at the same time.
It's a perfect year to do both.
SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
Yes.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna hold you to thePikes Peak stuff.
I'll be reaching out to recruityou for that.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:45):
Uh all right, Tyler.
Well, listen, man.
I thank you so much for comingon and and having a candid
conversation about yourexperience.
Uh, I cannot wait uh to talkagain.
And um, dude, wishing you thebest of luck in your build for
uh the marathon.
And uh yeah, I'd love to see youchasing big goals, and I can't
wait to see what's next.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (45:02):
Thank you, James.
Great to chat with you aboutworlds.
SPEAKER_00 (45:05):
Yeah, man.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a powerful episode.
I want to thank Tyler so muchfor coming on the podcast and
kind of debriefing his um justhis experience, you know, the
human experience going over tocompete at worlds for your
country and what that's like andyou know, and and just you know
how you how you deal with that.
You know, it's not easy, um,especially, you know, being a
(45:27):
professional at what he does.
Like Tyler is uh you know a datascientist, he's a director of
data science for a huge company.
Um, you know, he's a PhD, he's ahusband, he's a father.
The dude is a lot of things.
So uh to be exceptional at manythings, I I just find that um,
yeah, it's Tyler's a specialhuman.
So I want to thank him so muchfor coming on the podcast and uh
(45:48):
wish him in the best as he youknow goes after another Olympic
qualifier, which is gonna bepretty cool.
Uh guys, the best way you cansupport Tyler is to give him a
follow on Instagram.
Uh he's a great follow.
You can find him at track tracktie.
That's T-R-A-C-K-T-Y.
Pretty simple, prettystraightforward.
Uh, you can also just type inTyler McCannless and you'll find
his handle there and you cangive him a follow.
(46:08):
Uh lots of good stuff, lots ofgood interviews.
Um, yeah, like I said, superappreciative of Tyler.
Uh guys, if you enjoyed thisepisode, amongst others, uh, the
best way you can support thepodcast is to give us a
five-star rating interview onApple, Spotify, YouTube, or
wherever you consume podcasts.
That would mean the world to me.
Uh, I can continue to tell thesestories of these amazing
athletes.
Um, you can also support us bysupporting our brand partner,
(46:29):
Ultimate Direction.
Uh UD just dropped a brand newrace vest six liter and an ultra
vest 12 liter in somebeautifully aesthetic colorways.
They also have a pull quiver,which is pretty dope.
Um, and you could support themby going on
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Get yourself uh the code SteepStuff Pod.
(46:50):
That's gonna get you 25% offyour cart.
Again, that's Steep Stuff Pod,one word, 25% off your cart, uh,
whatever you guys choose.
And uh yeah, get yourselveshooked up, all kinds of good
stuff there, especially as theweather starts to shift.
We're getting more into uhautumn winter here in Colorado.
Um, you know, things arestarting to cool down a bit.
Uh, you're definitely gonna wantto get some additional gear for
(47:12):
longer, colder days out.
Get yourself a nice pack, getyourself a belt, uh, get
yourself the good stuff.
So thank you guys, appreciateit.
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Lauriello.
Today I'm so excited to bringyou guys an episode with Tyler
McCannless.
Just back from competing at theWorld Mountain Running
Championship in Con FrankPinheiros.
Tyler was a competitor in theuphill category.
He actually helped his team, hewas a scoring member for the
(00:20):
U.S.
men's team, where Tyler helpedthe team achieve a bronze medal
overall, as well as Tylercompeted himself to a 26 place
finish in that race.
Really exciting to get to talkto Tyler and kind of debrief the
race in its entirety.
Lot of differences between anormal competition and a race
like this, where it's just thisrace seemed a lot more chaotic
(00:41):
and just a lot more going on.
Lots of bottlenecks and hardopportunities to pass, and Tyler
found himself kind of in a lotof adversity early on in the
race and kind of you know kindof debriefed that and uh how he
was able to work his way back upinto the mix and become a
scoring member for the US men'steam.
Um lots of good stuff there.
We also got into some debrief ofBroken Arrow where Tyler earned
(01:03):
his spot on the US men's team.
We talked about how that raceunfolded, being shortened from a
VK down to um about half thedistance, and what that was like
on race day when things hadchanged and he was able to kind
of adjust and earn his spot.
Um lots of good stuff there.
Yeah, Tyler's an amazing human.
Um we also talk about anotherOlympic qualifier that he's
gonna chase for 2026, which isuh exciting as well.
(01:26):
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
Tyler's story is an amazing one.
Uh, I think he brings a lot of areally good perspective about
what it's like to go compete umover in worlds, especially from
someone that's only representedthe stars and stripes once, um,
just the differences in a worldversus other races where you can
compete um for the US.
And um, yeah, just what it'slike.
(01:47):
So lots of good perspectivethere, and I'm genuinely
appreciative for Tyler's time.
So without further ado, I hopeyou enjoy this one.
Tyler McCannless.
(03:01):
Tyler McCannlist, welcome backto this Deep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Uh it's going really well.
It's great to be back on, James.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Yeah, no, I'm I'm so excited.
We we kind of had preliminaryplanned this.
I screwed up our scheduling, sothis kind of worked out
significantly.
Uh I I almost like the format ofthis better that we're getting
to chat and catch uppost-worlds, which is uh
obviously you just returned fromCon Frank uh competing on the
vertical team, or I should I sayuphill.
I think it's probably the betterway to say it.
(03:30):
Um, dude, first reactions afterthe race.
Like, how are you feeling?
And and what what's theemotional level like?
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Yeah, I I was nervous being away from the
family for like 10 days, but youknow, everything was great at
home.
And coming back, I've I've neverbeen so inspired by being a part
of a team and running andcompeting for something that's
way more than you know apersonal glory or personal goal.
It was such and you knew it wasgoing to be a team atmosphere,
(04:00):
but coming back, I'm just uhextraordinarily inspired to
continue to compete as well as Ican on the trails and hopefully
make the team in two years forSouth Africa and Cape Town, um,
because it was that incredibleof a experience.
SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
Wow.
So it it's interesting to me.
I I don't talk to too many folksthat have had bad experiences at
at these events.
Like everyone, it seems likelike Jeff Colt was a great
example because he came backfrom worlds, I think I can't
remember if it was, I think itwas Chiang Mai, and was like the
stoke was so high, he wasrecruiting people to go out and
try out for these uh, you know,these teams and and you know,
(04:37):
really get people behind worlds.
What is it about it that makesit so special?
Is it the representation of thestars and stripes?
Is it is the team aspect of it?
Because I know you know we'reall kind of old, like it you
it's not often anymore we can beon a team, right?
Like, what is it that's sospecial about like the World
Mountain Running Championship?
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah, I and I was in a very fortunate position with
the vertical.
You race first, right?
And then I have three days ofcheering on my teammates in the
short trail, the long trail, theclassic, the U20.
Meanwhile, you're like havingmeals with everyone and getting
to know them.
And like I would never have beenat the same race as Jim
(05:17):
Walmsley, for example.
Yet we're at the MountainClassic out on the course, both
of us with our phones watchingthe live stream, talking about
it, getting excited for like howthe US team is doing and ready
to cheer for them when they comethrough the next time.
It's just like you don't havethose experiences in a race, any
race you like sign up and go to.
(05:38):
So there's just somethingspecial around worlds where like
you are all rallying together.
And again, I was very lucky tocompete in the first event and
then being able to be like morerelaxed to come, you know, cheer
everyone on.
But like everyone came out forthe mountain classic on the last
day and the U20, and therepresentation you had across
(05:58):
the team was just incredible.
And you know, it gets you backto like competing in college,
and you're at a track meet, andthe four by four is the last
event, and everyone's comingthere and like cheering on you
know the team to like earn asmany points for a conference,
um, conference positioning.
So, like, I think everyone'sstoke is really high because you
(06:18):
leave on that note of likeeveryone rallies together,
you've all competed hard, andhonestly, across all the race
disciplines, we like competedreally well as a team.
Like we did.
It was really impressive.
So it was also like just a likeAmerica's very good at trail
running, and we justdemonstrated that.
So, yeah, I think all of thosetogether just made it a super
(06:41):
exciting um finish to the event.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
I love it.
I love it.
All right, let's talk, let'stalk about the race, let's talk
about the venue as well andtravel.
Like, how hard was it to get outthere?
Was it smooth?
I know for some, like you're,for instance, like your team
member Christian had like areally rough day trying to get
out there.
Um, how was it for you uh as faras flights and everything?
And how far ahead of time didyou did you arrive?
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
Yeah, I uh um was on a flight that left on a Friday,
got there Saturday.
We were pretty much on time, ahalf an hour delayed, something
like that.
I rented a car and Joe Gray wason the same flight.
So then we hopped in the car andwe drove literally three and a
half hours straight to the startof the course, and we ran the
uphill course.
It was supposed to rain hard thenext day on Sunday.
(07:27):
So we were like, well, let's seethe course before it rains.
So, you know, him and I gotthere Saturday at like 6 p.m.
and we ran the course on the waydown.
It got really dark, ended upgetting out my phone at night
and like trying to navigate thefinal few miles downhill.
Joe fell a couple times.
It was an experience to say theleast.
Um, but being able to see thewhole course on Saturday before
(07:50):
I competed on the next Thursdaywas really great.
And then, you know, jet lag isreal going across to Europe.
So like I'd wake up in themiddle of the night, like wide
awake at 2:30 in the morning orso.
But after a few days, you kindof got into the rhythm.
So like I felt well rested andreally good by racing on
Thursday.
So yeah, I got to see the fullcourse once, got to see it the
(08:13):
start and a few miles of itagain, two more times.
So I felt like pretty preparedfor what I knew the course was
gonna be like.
Um, and yeah, the travelotherwise was pretty smooth for
getting there.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
How was it was it difficult?
Like, I feel like if I was outthere tapering and like getting
ready for a race like this, Iwould wanna.
It's almost like hard to not gorun all the trails and see all
the mountains and like kind ofdo all the stuff.
Was that like a hard pull foryou, or was it I'm locked in,
the team is locked in, likewe're just getting ready for
game day?
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Um, that's a good question.
I think the hardest pull wasChristian text me, he's like,
hey, let's do a workout, liketune up.
I'm just gonna do some threeminute reps.
I'm like, oh, perfect.
This is on Monday before therace on Thursday.
Um, and then of course, like weran the first two reps like way
too fast.
And I was like, all right, Igotta pull back.
Like I am racing in like youknow, 72 hours or whatever it
(09:06):
was at that point.
Um, but I think like I waspretty locked into I need to
race this course really well,and then I'll have time being
able to see the other coursesand experience other trails and
run other things after that.
So yeah, I didn't have too muchof a pull to the trail.
I did have the pull to runningtoo fast in my final workout,
but fair enough.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
How was uh how was the venue like situationally?
Um, like room like being youknow, getting set up with
roommates and um the sleepsituation and the food
situation, like how was it foryou guys?
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
It was really good.
The the downside was you know, Idefinitely wanted to get out
there early to preview thecourse, and then the team
housing started the day beforethe uphill competition.
So, you know, we on our own tofigure it out.
So I moved from an Airbnb to ahotel to a different hotel, you
know, in like the first fourdays of being there.
So it was a lot of bouncingaround.
(10:02):
But then the team hotel wasterrific, they had all the meals
for us.
Um, and it was pretty coolbecause it was like cafeteria
type setting, and there was abunch of different countries
with um each country's like nameon the different table.
So it's like fun that you werekind of like getting to know
some of the other countries orat least around them and seeing
their vibes um as well.
(10:24):
And then there was a shuttlethat took folks from we stayed
in the town of Hakka toConfranc.
Um, I was fortunate to have therental car, so it was like
really simple to drive like 20minutes to get to Confranc.
Confranc's a really small town.
Um, I stayed in there for thefirst few days to like run the
course and be in there, and itwas like just a couple of
(10:44):
restaurants, like not really afull grocery store.
You know, it's a very smallsetting, but it was really easy
to hit the trails.
It was pretty beautiful venue,like mountains on all sides.
Um, so uh yeah, logistics arepretty simple.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Very cool.
Let's get into the team dynamic.
Uh, obviously, this isn't thefirst time you and Christian, as
well as you and Joe, like youand Joe, for the most part, have
been competitors for a reallylong time.
Like it's been a few years now.
And then on top of that, you'vealso been teammates.
What was this dynamic like?
I know Joe likes to, at leastI've known Joe for previous
years to always been a big gameplanner, kind of plan stuff
(11:22):
ahead of time.
Was that the same vibes thistime or or was it different?
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Um, you know, Cam Smith is probably one of like
the most social and organizedfolks.
So like he certainly rallied usto get together in the summer,
and um, we hosted like seven,seven or eight folks in
Bunavista for a weekend and itgot to run the trails.
So one of the things that wasreally nice, more than just the
(11:47):
vertical team, but across the USteam, like I already knew Mason
Coppy pretty well and TaylorStack and Cam.
So there was already some levelof like a friendship and all of
us being excited to competetogether.
And then, as you said, like Joeand I have competed against each
other for you know more than adecade in various race
disciplines.
So we knew each other reallywell, and that was like easy to
travel together to um get to thecourse and run together.
(12:10):
And then I've raced Christian abunch, and um, he was my
roommate in in Con Frank.
So it was just it was prettysimple to always have um
teammates around.
And we we didn't really talkstrategically as like a group
before of us of like how we weregonna like specifically race it.
Um, but we all knew we were justshooting, we were all very fit
(12:31):
and ready and excited to try tocompete at the front.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
I love it.
I can't say enough good thingsabout Cam.
Love Cam.
He's uh he's an amazing human.
Um on the topic of Cam and onthe topic of the Buena Vista
camp that you guys did, can youtalk a little bit about that and
like the experience and just howfun it was to get to meet
everybody and spend time witheveryone?
And I because I feel like thosetypes of things maybe had been
(12:57):
missing from teams in previousyears, and I think it's really
important to the culture of ateam for winning medals and and
just the cohesiveness.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Yeah, you know, I was talking with Paul Kirsch and
Tom Hooper um after the event,and one of their observations
was this team gelled togetherquicker than some of the other
teams.
And I do think us getting ustogether for a weekend of just
running and catching up anddrinking coffee together before
running, like all of that likereally helped because we were we
(13:29):
were maybe way more cohesive,and it was easier to be like um
sharing rides to places andgoing to preview the course
together in Con Frank.
And um, it really you just feltlike more like a team going to
there instead of like learningwho your team is once you're
there.
So I do think that that made abig difference.
And you know, we were we rolledreally deep on that one specific
(13:53):
training run in Buna Vista whenlike Noah Williams showed up,
and there was a few other goodrunners and Adrian, and like we
had like 12 of the best runnersin the US all like doing a four
plus hour run and trying to bagtwo 14ers.
It was um it was pretty epic.
So yeah, I think that that addeda lot to the dynamic and being a
(14:13):
part of a team before like wewere all together um in Con
Frank.
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
And I like I said, it it just plays so much to the
cohesiveness and probablycontributed in a lot of ways.
I mean, obviously, there's somuch talent on these teams now.
The American teams like we senta squad this year, uh deep on
every roster.
But at the same time, I thinkthe cohesiveness of everyone
knowing each other, fighting forone another, and wanting to, you
know, perform well on race day,not just for you know their
(14:40):
country, but also more so justfor their team to score.
I think that made that made ayou makes a huge difference.
So very cool.
Um let's let's talk about therace.
I want to pivot a little bitinto the race itself, and I want
to open the door for you to kindof talk about how it unfolded,
everything from the warm-up tothe start, nerves.
Give me give me the wholeplay-by-play.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Yeah, so the race started, all the other races
started and finished by thetrain station in Confranc.
Our race started, it was abouttwo kilometers outside of town.
Um, and it was kind of like aalmost like a frontage road in
front of like a small hotel,quickly became a gravel road,
and then you hit the trail,probably about 600 meters of
(15:22):
running before that.
So for warm-up, we um got a ridefrom team staff, went to the
train station, we warmed up.
It was flat there, access tobathroom, really simple.
Hopped in the car, got therelike 35-ish minutes before the
start.
Before um we had to go throughwill call that gave us a little
(15:42):
more time to jog around.
Then about 20 minutes out, weall have to get like our
uniforms checked at the sametimes.
We were required to carry anemergency rain jacket with us.
So we had to like show that tothe team staff as well.
Um and yeah, then we got throughthe the will call.
We're in track, you call it likethe paddock area.
(16:04):
So, like kind of the fenced-offarea where all the athletes are.
You could jog around a littlebit, it was a pretty tight spot.
Um, we were told that they wouldonly have one athlete per
country at the start line.
My background, I interpretedthat as like cross-country
style, where like you would haveone athlete and then line up in
a row behind them.
In reality, the race picked sixor eight athletes that they were
(16:27):
gonna like call up to the front.
So, like Christian Allen wascalled up, I think uh Patrick or
Philemon.
There was a few athletes, Remy,of course, was called up to the
start.
And then it was just afree-for-all of like who lined
up behind.
So I didn't have thatexpectation that it was gonna be
like people lining up to get agood position at the start line
(16:48):
15 to 20 minutes before the racestart.
So, like I got there about 12minutes before, and I was like
12 rows deep of people, andEuropeans just like get really
close.
Like, there was like no likewiggle room to kind of just like
work my way up.
I've run Olympic trialsmarathons, New York City
(17:08):
marathons, Chicago.
I've always been on like thefirst or second row, like it's
never like hard to get up, andthis was like impossible to get
a good starting position.
So the race, when it started,it's like a little bit of luck
of like how fast the peopleright in front of you also go
out.
And I just got stuck in theback.
And it was then me like swimmingupstream, trying to pass people
(17:32):
while running under five minutepace, going up this slope.
I like my watch was bumped, soit stopped.
So then I didn't have like aknowledge of like where I was at
in the race because I didn'tnotice that until I was like
almost a mile into the race.
So anyway, it's like it getspretty narrow, and then you make
a sharp left-hand turn up thesestairs, and it becomes single
(17:57):
track, and it just packed up tothe point that in the beginning
I was like walking up the hill,and there's like a distinct
point in the race where I waslike, my heart rate's not even
high.
I like can't go faster.
You couldn't go around becauseit was like in the trees at that
point, too.
So there's not really like roomto move around the single track
(18:18):
if somebody's slower in front ofyou, and then it's just like a
line of people because there's ahundred and sixty-ish
competitors, and everyone's kindof packed up at that point.
So I was unfortunately likepretty far back, and it was one
of those points where you'relike, Can I salvage this race?
Like, is this race like so farin front of me now that I'm like
(18:39):
in a tough spot?
And then about a mile in, Icaught Joe, and Joe was clearly
just not having a great day.
And it was like, all right, sofrom a team perspective, there's
two of us here we're like in theback half of the race.
This is probably not boding wellfor our team position.
But you know, I just like keptkeeping on and being present and
(19:00):
just trying to move past anyoneI could whenever I could.
And by the time we got to abouttwo and a half miles, it starts
to open up a little bit more.
You get out of the trees, you'reable to have like some more
areas that you can pass on.
The single track there wasreally narrow.
So it wasn't like a single trackthat you could still get around
(19:23):
people.
You had to go off the singletrack really to pass.
So, like at that point, youcould do that more freely.
And the people that went outhard were starting to fade.
So then it was easier to getaround.
And I just kept moving and itjust kept moving and passing
people.
And I had um a really good lastmile and a half where I was
charging up through the field.
(19:44):
You get to the 600 meters to go,and the it's a 30% grade, and
it's really steep.
And the crowds there, you gofrom the trees where there's
like nobody to all of a suddenthere being like a ton of people
that took the chairlift up thatare there cheering.
And I'm still like movingthrough, passing some people.
(20:05):
It was still like a pretty largenumber of people in the general
um area I was.
I get to the top, and me and aSpanish guy were like fighting
to get to the right position.
I get around him and I see liketwo people that I'm like, no way
can I catch him.
But I start just sprinting and Iclose the gap and I pass both of
them like right before thefinish.
(20:26):
So it's like really rewardingthat I, you know, I don't know
if I've had a race ever start sobad.
And like I in hindsight, I couldhave got a better position at
the start.
And I I didn't do that.
I didn't, I wasn't aware that Ishould have like got to the
start line 20 minutes and justwaited.
Um, and that would have helpedme more than like doing a few
(20:46):
more strides.
Um, so hindsight 2020, learnedquite a bit there.
But like to continue justkeeping on and just to keep
believing, and then to dig topass those couple of people,
finish.
You know, I find Christian herehe that he had a great run and
was fourth.
I find um Cam, here he was 11th,find out I was 26th, and we're
(21:11):
like on Nancy Hobbes' phone,just like finding the results
and trying to add up the team.
And we like thought we weresilver for a little bit, and
then realized Switzerland hadsilver and we were bronze.
But it was like an incrediblyrewarding experience where 30
minutes before I was like, thisteam is having a really terrible
day.
To this team just earned a medalat the World Championships.
(21:32):
It was a pretty remarkable, um,remarkable experience.
SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
Cathartic.
I think cathartic too, becauseyou start.
How were the nerves essentiallywhen you realized you were that
far back?
Were you was it frustration?
Like, were you trying to keepyour cool and maintain your
positivity?
Because I feel like if for acompetitor, like I would be very
frustrated.
And it's like, how do you keepthose feelings in check and just
do everything you possibly canto keep the, you know, keep calm
(21:58):
and still move your way up?
Like, how are you able to likekind of like pull yourself back
together on that?
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
I think I did a good job of just being where my feet
were and like just focusing onlike immediately, like, how do I
get around the guy in front ofme?
How do I get around the next guyin front of him?
Thinking about like, oh, ifthere was a straightaway coming
up, I would like quickly think,okay, I could surge around this
left side and get around twoguys.
Like, and I think by just likefocusing on the very simple,
(22:26):
like, what's the most immediatenext thing I can do to move up
in the field?
I didn't have like anoverwhelming sense of
frustration because I wasn'tplanning or thinking ahead.
The few times that like it cameto me of like, oh, we're in a
bad position as a team.
I just like reoriented aroundlike pass the next guy, keep
moving forward.
People will have probably goneout too hard, and like I didn't
(22:48):
go out too hard.
So, you know, I think if youlook on on Strava, the last like
mile and a half, I was a secondfaster than Christian Allen.
Yeah, he beat me by like threeminutes.
So, like there was a big gapthere.
And I think that justrepresentative of like you can
make it up, right?
(23:09):
Like it took a while before Iwas able to get in position.
And I don't think if I wouldhave been on the start line, I
would have been fifth place.
Like, I don't think I like endedup losing that much because I
just stayed present and didn'tget frustrated by it and start
like thinking about how the endresult was gonna be.
I crossed the finish line and Ididn't know if I was 12th or
42nd.
(23:29):
Like I had like no idea, right?
I'm like, Jason, can you help meout?
The Jason um who was on the teamstaff, like, can you help me
out?
And like, where did I finish?
And he's like, I'm trying topull up results.
So that was a unique umexperience.
But that like gets down to likenot caring as much about your
specific place and end result.
(23:49):
And I just knew like I battledthrough what I could to do the
best to help support the team aswell as I could, and that is a
really amazing experience thatgoes beyond like a specific
place.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
That's amazing.
And it's interesting too.
I I can ask you this becauseI've seen videos, I've never
raced in Europe.
It's on the it's on the list.
And I I mean, from a race whereit's super tight like that,
especially where it looked likethere was a lot of bottleneck um
when it transitioned onto thesingle track and going up, it
seems like guys are throwingelbows, you gotta like not like
(24:23):
in a in a like not purposely,but it just seems like it's
chaos, like uh in in a more agreaggressive, if you will.
How are you able to avoid thatand just kind of move your way
like through some of thesepeople?
Because I know people don't liketo be passed.
Like that's and this is thehighest stakes in a race if
there are, you know, if thereare stakes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
Yeah, uh it kind of happens so fast that it like I
didn't have time to like feelanxious about it.
It just like was chaos, and youjust like made it through the
chaos to the other side whereyou were then in a a line on the
single track.
So yeah, it was a veryinteresting you know, race
perspective.
And then you could see peoplewho who got freaked out by it.
(25:08):
There was specific, no,specifically two Uganda guys who
came absolutely flying by me,like halfway through the race.
And it was like, whoa, wherewere they before?
How are they moving so fast?
And then one guy pulls up, grabsa side, and starts walking, and
the other one slows downdrastically.
(25:28):
So, like, I think that was acase where they probably got a
little overanxious about notbeing in a good spot and then
tried too hard to make it up andthen faded.
When I I think I had just like agood mindset of like, I'm just
gonna focus on passing the nextperson in front of me and the
next person, and not trying todo anything too drastic to make
(25:49):
up for that chaos that truly wasuh a half mile into the race.
SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
It's crazy.
Was there any takeaways like asa not just as a competitor, but
as someone that knows the sport,like Remy doing as advertised,
Patrick, you know, being not theworld champion this year, being
you know, right off.
Um, anything that like stuck outto you as takeaways from this
specific competition after thefact?
Obviously, you're in it, so yousee things play out.
(26:16):
Was there anybody like that justamazed you or like under like
did what you thought was gonnahappen?
I don't know.
It's kind of a weird question.
It's just that as an athlete inthe sport and as a fan, it's you
know, these are also interestingthings.
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
Yeah, you know, I I think it just really good
examples are how Christian racedand how Cam raced.
Like Cam didn't get at the startline.
He he did a very nice job ofmoving up through the field
earlier and better than I did.
And then he ran just bloodytough the whole time, you know,
(26:50):
and he he took 11th in the worldbecause he came in really fit.
He was a gamer, he was like spoton ready.
You know, Christian reallybelieved he could try to win a
world championship and raced totry to win a world championship.
Um, and it's fun to see wherelike confidence meets
opportunity and it comesthrough.
And I was just thrilled forthose guys on like having the
(27:13):
race that they were capable ofon that day.
Um, and I think you could kindof see that across all the
competitions of like people thatcame in that were like game on
and ready and believed and didsomething special.
You know, uh Anna Gibson, ofcourse, being a great example of
that, getting third, LaurenGregory and how she ran the
Mountain Classic and like wasclosing down and chasing down
(27:35):
people at the end and ran, Ithink her last kilometer faster
than most of the guys did.
Like I think those were some ofthe examples that like really
stood out.
And it's more of thatcombination of racing and
mindset um that I think I Ilearned quite a bit from.
So cool.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Let's uh let's talk about like when you guys
realized that you had medaled,like when you realized that it
was gonna be be a thing.
What was the feeling likestanding on that stage, getting
the medal, you know, standing inthe stars and stripes,
everybody, you know, you'regetting cheered on, you're
getting to talk with otherathletes, um, you know, from
other countries.
(28:14):
Like, what was what was thatfeeling like?
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
Yeah, I think it's helpful to to know when we
finish, we're at the top of themountain, and you can take the
cherry lift down, andChristian's like, oh, I'm gonna
run down to try to get somemiles.
You want to join?
So I'm like, all right, I'll,you know, I'll join.
You know, I don't have my cellphone, like my cell phone's back
at the the bag before uh thestart of the race.
So like I have to run and getback to Cahn Frank to I could
(28:39):
like look at my phone to see theresults, all of that.
So like we thought we had like asilver medal at that point, and
I was still like, race resultsare never like immediate and
accurate, like things alwayschange, and I'm like, somebody's
bib probably didn't work.
Like, you never know.
Um, plus, we didn't like haveactual team scores, we were just
trying to like do the math oflike the flags we saw of the
(29:02):
people in the top 30 that wethought would um be tough teams.
So we start running down, andI'm thinking this is like a
three or four mile run down themountain on a forest service
road, and it ended up being a 10mile run to get back to
Campbreak.
I had like four sips of a cokeat the top, and then like after
running the race and ran 10miles back down, I was like so
(29:23):
toasted by the end.
And then we got down and weheard um that we were bronze,
and the results were lookingmore like finalized and
official, but the award ceremonywasn't until 7 p.m.
So, like, honestly, I likecalled my wife Kristen and like
talked to her when she wasawake.
And I'm still like nervous oflike, are these results gonna
(29:44):
come in and like France had anactual guy in tent that wasn't
recorded and like we droppeddown to fourth or something?
So it didn't really feel realuntil we got to the award
ceremony.
The officials put us on um somestadium bleachers.
Until we were brought up onstage.
And they did a great job of likehaving a real medal presentation
(30:06):
ceremony on a stage, music,jamming, getting the crowd into
it.
It was a pretty like large crowdfor an award ceremony.
And yeah, it was just like itwas a really amazing experience.
To be honest, my my high schooldidn't win any team
competitions.
At Penn State, we were good.
We like made NCAs incross-country, but we never won
(30:28):
like a conference title or likepodiumed.
So I think this is like thefirst time I've been on a podium
as part of a team.
And that happens at the age of38 at the World Championships in
trail running.
So it was like it was a prettysurreal experience.
I think Cam made the comment oflike, the podium isn't meant for
people like us.
Of just like, you know, we'realways like in the audience
(30:49):
looking at the folks going up onstage.
So yeah, it was a really specialthing.
And then Anna got her um bronzemedal individually.
Then like we took photos, and itwas just like really cool to
have starting the competitionwith that as a team getting a a
medal.
It was uh yeah, it was a bitsurreal.
It was cool.
SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
So cool.
So you've been on a lot ofpodiums, man.
You've done a lot of amazingthings in your career.
Where does where does this onerank for you?
Like, is it is it different?
Is it better?
Is it worse?
Like, where does it kind of fallon the the ranking for you?
SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
You know, I I thought I've thought deeply on
that as well.
And it was a a challengingsummer with like health stuff in
the family, work challenges,training challenges.
It just like to perseverethrough all of that, to have the
support from family and friends.
My wife threw me like a goodluck in Spain surprise party
(31:49):
where like 30 of my friends thatshowed up that I hadn't even
seen some of them in a coupleyears.
Uh it was like the amount ofsupport before, during, and
after was just so special.
And then to come away with theteam medal and to do it where
like I had to really dig andagain like persevere through
(32:12):
like beginning mistakes in thatrace and then come back.
Um, it was so rewarding and morerewarding than most, if not all,
of like an individual raceresult that turned out really
well.
So, you know, it's definitely onmy podium of my running career
in terms of experiences.
Um, and yeah, I'm just verythankful for everyone.
(32:35):
Immense amount of gratitude foreveryone that's helped and
supported and encouraged umalong the way.
So cool, man.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
Beautiful answer.
Did you get one of those coolNike shirts, the the flowy ones?
I shouldn't say they're cool,they're kind of weird.
But like, did you did you didyou bring home one of those?
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
The radical cooling technology, yes, I do have one
of those.
Um yeah, pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:56):
Um what's your like initial reactions on one of
those things?
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
You know, uh it is a big shout out to to Nike and
supporting innovation.
And not that Nike hasn'tinnovated in the past, of course
they have, but like they'rereally putting more emphasis
into the trail and ultra-runningcommunity and innovating in
apparel and in shoes.
And I think that's just gonnaraise the bar for everyone.
(33:22):
Um, they work like incrediblywell, not like a warned in a hot
um environment, but likeeveryone loved them that raced
in them, and it's it's a prettyamazing thing.
As a scientist myself, it's likethey they made a long sleeve
shirt that acts to cool you morethan like a super lightweight
(33:42):
singlet does.
Like it's a pretty neat spot tobe in the sport to like see
those things coming, and I thinkit's only gonna um continue to
bring more people into trail andultra running, and yeah,
thankful for their support ofthe team.
It's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (33:56):
I mean, and it's a fashion statement.
Like, I should have asked you towear it for the podcast.
Those things are dope.
Uh Mikelito, I think Mikelitoposted a picture with him and
Noah and Tom, or maybe Tomposted it.
I was like, like, what an oddshirt.
But like, less it man, if itworks and it's innovative, by
all means, I think it's kind ofneat.
SPEAKER_01 (34:16):
It it stands out, it brings some attention, that's
for sure.
That's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
What's uh the reaction after the fact?
Are you gonna take somedowntime?
Are you training for like areyou gonna start a new block for
something next?
Or what's uh you know, what'snext for you?
SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
Yeah, so excitingly, the Olympic Marathon trials uh
qualification window opened onSeptember 1st.
So it's open for two and a halfyears, so there's like a long
time.
But this would be my fifthOlympic marathon trials if I
qualified.
So I'm gonna pick a wintermarathon, have you know road
season, focus on running sub 216in the marathon, making a fifth.
(34:52):
I don't know how many peoplehave ever made five consecutive
Olympic marathon trials.
So that that is a big goal.
And then I'm I'm more excitedthan ever to really rip it on
the trails again next year.
I'd like to try a few morecompetitive races.
Like I think Sears and all fitsmy uh fitness and capabilities
really well, starting withbasically like a double VK and
(35:14):
then a a little bit more of likea road race-esque feel.
Like I feel like I could performwell there.
So that's in August of nextyear.
Um, we'll see if there's like aNACAC team or any other teams to
make um for the US.
I would definitely be veryinterested in that.
Of course, it not being aworld's year.
Um, don't know if I'll dabble inlike a 50K or try something
(35:35):
longer, but I definitely want toexplore and run some more trail
races.
So the earlier I can try to getthat Olympic marathon trials
qualifier, the earlier I getback to racing on the trails
again.
Um so excited for a road season,but also like really excited for
what next summer on the trailscould bring.
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
Oh, I love it, man.
I love for what's possibly hit,especially seeing you at series
and all, just because yourmarathoning background and just
everything you've done on theroads, like I feel like such a
good intersection with youruphilling ability, that would be
really cool.
And then, yeah, there's a lot ofgood like golden trail stuff I
could see you doing that I thinkwould be a really good fit, not
just series and all.
So yeah, I'll definitely uhwe'll well we'll definitely talk
(36:15):
before then.
So I do I do want to travel alittle bit back in time because
we didn't get a chance to talkafter Broken Arrow where you got
fourth at the VK.
Um, I just want to get like justan initial reaction and talk a
little bit about maybe justrehash that race as well.
Um, just to for theproverbializing on the cake.
I that was a very difficultrace, like especially the fact
(36:37):
that they changed the course.
There was a lot of likehecticness around it.
Um obviously it wasn't a full3,000-foot course.
How did that play out for you?
Like what obviously that wasthat was a tough race.
SPEAKER_01 (36:50):
Yeah, uh what was interesting about that was this
is another one where it's like,all right, I gotta get out and
see the course.
I had never done the brokenarrow ascent before.
So I was like, I need to seethis.
If I'm gonna try to make a team,it's like really important to
understand the course.
So we got out there on a let'ssee, there I think the race was
on a Friday.
I got out there on like a Mondaynight, so I could see it on
(37:11):
Tuesday.
I ran most of the course.
I saved the final bit.
Um, that wasn't as important,but I got to see like
three-fourths of the course ofwhat I thought was the course.
And then I was like, I lovethis.
Like the section, there's like alonger section, it's probably
like a mile, mile and a half.
That's more of like a steepservice road that like is my
(37:34):
jam.
It's like what I just love.
It's like grinding as hard as Ican uphill on runnable terrain.
And then they're like, oh, theweather's bad.
We're gonna shift the course andmove it.
So basically, like just the skislope that I ran was the same as
what um I ended up running inthe race.
(37:54):
So it was a little like, allright, day before, I have a
whole new course to do, I don'thave time to preview it, and I'm
just gonna, you know, competethe the best I can on a
shortened course as well.
I think it was like 1800 feetagain instead of like 3,000
feet.
So I'm like, all right, it'sgonna go out really fast, and
then you're gonna have to likebattle through.
(38:15):
And um the final bit was on moresingle track.
So I kind of knew the the startwould be like a lot of chaos, a
lot of people going fast, butit's a steep enough slope that I
felt like things would work itsway out, and they pretty much
did.
By the time we got to the dirtroad, which was about like less
(38:38):
than half a mile rather thanlike a mile and a half of kind
of where I like really loved thecourse, I was in like 10th to
12th place.
But ironically enough, it waslike Cam Smith, Joe, and I like
packed up.
Um, and folks like uh Killianwent out too hard, um, Andy was
up there, and we kind of justlike moved up through the pack.
(39:01):
And by the time we got to thesingle track with about a mile
to go, it was the four positionsof Christian, then Joe, and then
Cam and I.
And um I kind of just stayedpretty much in that fourth
position.
Cam and I traded going back andforth a couple of times.
Um, at mile, I'd say with liketwo minutes left of running, I
(39:24):
was in fourth and I had seen ajersey behind me that was like a
darker jersey.
And the whole time I thought itwas Killian because he was the
last person I passed before wegot to the single track.
And it turned out it was likeDavid Sinclair.
Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_00 (39:36):
It's the worst that's the worst person you went
breathing down your neck.
SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
I'm like, oh goodness, like the US spot is
not locked up, right?
So, like, then it got a littlebit more stressful until like
finally crossing the finish linein fourth and knowing I had a
spot on the team locked up.
So, yeah, that was a veryinteresting race, I think, in
hindsight.
Um I don't know if I I wouldhave loved to see the course
(40:00):
beforehand.
And a lot of those guys have runat Broken Arrow before and knew
that trail because it used to bepart of the 23k course, and I
was just blind to what wascoming up ahead, and there was
some like technical ridgelinetype stuff, and the steepness
changed a few times.
It would have been reallyhelpful to see it.
Um, I think I would have I wouldhave enjoyed the longer course
(40:21):
and a little I know the top ofthat gets um pretty technical,
uh, but like I really would haveenjoyed the original Broken
Arrow course.
So you know maybe I'll have togo back this year even if it's
not a next year, even thoughit's not a qualifying and see
what I can really rip on it.
But yeah, it was a really greatday because the four of us were
we thought we were hopefuls tomake the team, and then we ended
(40:44):
up making the team and thencompeting with all the others.
So it's um yeah, it was aspecial day that day as well.
So cool, man.
SPEAKER_00 (40:50):
So cool.
Yeah, I and it's funny youbrought up David Sinclair
because I was gonna mention thatI'm like, that's the last person
I would want breathing down likeon my back, especially given the
season he had too.
Like, man, that's it's so cooltoo.
Like, dude, like you beatKillian in a race.
That's that's pretty neat.
Like, I don't know, like that'sthat's something I would think
about that be like, well, it'ssomething you don't do every
day.
So pretty neat.
SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
Yeah, I wish he would have had a better second
half though.
Like he like he really, hereally faded.
But yeah, the other thing thatyou don't realize in other
races, like if it was a flatroad race, I would have thought
I had a big gap on DavidSinclair.
But when you're going up like areally steep slope, like
lengthwise, you're not that farapart, right?
(41:32):
You're just like not moving asfast.
So like it's also like prettyterrifying when you're like
going super slow up this steepmountain, and like somebody's
like pretty close behind you,and it's you can't gauge is that
like five seconds or 25 secondsof a gap.
So yeah, that's um it gets you alittle anxious towards the top
(41:53):
there.
SPEAKER_00 (41:53):
Yeah, dude, racing is so much fun.
I love the sport.
It's that stuff is so nuts.
Um, it it's gonna beinteresting.
I don't know what's gonna happennext year, but we'll see what
the US Mountain RunningChampionship turns out to be.
I would guess it's gonna be, Imean, it could be broken arrow.
I know they try and stay awayfrom altitude races on off
years, but then again, it wasSnowbird uh two years ago, was
(42:15):
it?
Yeah, two years ago in 24.
Well, technically a year ago.
But yeah, maybe we'll see whathappens.
I mean, maybe it'll be anotherCirque series race, maybe it'll
be broken arrow or somethingnext year.
So it the uh the sky's thelimit.
It's gonna be fun.
I can't believe we're alreadytalking about we're in
September, October, and we'realready talking about next
summer already.
SPEAKER_01 (42:32):
So well, the one one thing um I I talked with a few
folks like uh Hillary and Alanand I had a long discussion of
this.
Is we have a vertical disciplineat the World Championships, yet
we don't have a vertical likeseries of competitions in the
US.
And I would love if CirqueSeries and others would put
(42:52):
together some VK style races.
It doesn't have to be exactlyyou know a kilometer of incline,
but like let's get some moreuphill only races and get people
excited about this as like adiscipline for that you can
compete at the worldchampionships at because it is
really fun and it's an amazingtest of fitness.
(43:14):
Um, so yeah, we need to have a aUS series and a US championship
as well for the uphill.
Uh that would be really great.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
I think you would catch on too.
I mean, you could do it at skiresorts more or less.
You just have to find the onesthat have somewhere between two
and three K of vertical, and youknow, they could take the ski
lift down, if anything.
So I I think you would actuallycatch on with the fan base.
Like you see broken arrow, yousee the rut.
I mean, the rut really, youknow, goes hard on theirs.
Broken arrow, it always sellsout.
Um, yeah, I think it would besuper popular if you could if we
(43:44):
could figure out some sort ofseries.
Dude, I've looked into it.
It it can be done.
It's just a matter of, I don'tknow, if Julian has the
infrastructure to be able topull that off and like make it
like tangible.
So it would be cool.
I'd also like to see them do aschemo one too, like a schemo
series that's like a mountainclassic schemo series in the
winter to kind of complementwhat they do in the um, you
know, in the summer.
(44:04):
So yeah, there's a lot ofopportunity, man.
There's I I think people thinkthat like, oh, with UTMB and all
that, it's uh there's more, Iguess you could say
monopolization in the sport, butI think that's the opposite.
There's so much more to do uhwith more vertical stuff.
So yeah, I'd love to see it.
We gotta recruit, we gotta getyou doing Pike's Peak.
I think you would do amazing inthe ascent.
I think next year we need toneed to make that happen.
SPEAKER_01 (44:26):
The Pikes Peak Ascent, I think Zeros and all
are the two races that I'm like,those are the kind of like they
should be must-dos on myschedule for next year without
having a world championship setslike you know at the same time.
It's a perfect year to do both.
SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
Yes.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna hold you to thePikes Peak stuff.
I'll be reaching out to recruityou for that.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:45):
Uh all right, Tyler.
Well, listen, man.
I thank you so much for comingon and and having a candid
conversation about yourexperience.
Uh, I cannot wait uh to talkagain.
And um, dude, wishing you thebest of luck in your build for
uh the marathon.
And uh yeah, I'd love to see youchasing big goals, and I can't
wait to see what's next.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (45:02):
Thank you, James.
Great to chat with you aboutworlds.
SPEAKER_00 (45:05):
Yeah, man.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a powerful episode.
I want to thank Tyler so muchfor coming on the podcast and
kind of debriefing his um justhis experience, you know, the
human experience going over tocompete at worlds for your
country and what that's like andyou know, and and just you know
how you how you deal with that.
You know, it's not easy, um,especially, you know, being a
(45:27):
professional at what he does.
Like Tyler is uh you know a datascientist, he's a director of
data science for a huge company.
Um, you know, he's a PhD, he's ahusband, he's a father.
The dude is a lot of things.
So uh to be exceptional at manythings, I I just find that um,
yeah, it's Tyler's a specialhuman.
So I want to thank him so muchfor coming on the podcast and uh
(45:48):
wish him in the best as he youknow goes after another Olympic
qualifier, which is gonna bepretty cool.
Uh guys, the best way you cansupport Tyler is to give him a
follow on Instagram.
Uh he's a great follow.
You can find him at track tracktie.
That's T-R-A-C-K-T-Y.
Pretty simple, prettystraightforward.
Uh, you can also just type inTyler McCannless and you'll find
his handle there and you cangive him a follow.
(46:08):
Uh lots of good stuff, lots ofgood interviews.
Um, yeah, like I said, superappreciative of Tyler.
Uh guys, if you enjoyed thisepisode, amongst others, uh, the
best way you can support thepodcast is to give us a
five-star rating interview onApple, Spotify, YouTube, or
wherever you consume podcasts.
That would mean the world to me.
Uh, I can continue to tell thesestories of these amazing
athletes.
Um, you can also support us bysupporting our brand partner,
(46:29):
Ultimate Direction.
Uh UD just dropped a brand newrace vest six liter and an ultra
vest 12 liter in somebeautifully aesthetic colorways.
They also have a pull quiver,which is pretty dope.
Um, and you could support themby going on
ultimatedirection.com if you areinterested in anything or want
to go to checkout.
Get yourself uh the code SteepStuff Pod.
(46:50):
That's gonna get you 25% offyour cart.
Again, that's Steep Stuff Pod,one word, 25% off your cart, uh,
whatever you guys choose.
And uh yeah, get yourselveshooked up, all kinds of good
stuff there, especially as theweather starts to shift.
We're getting more into uhautumn winter here in Colorado.
Um, you know, things arestarting to cool down a bit.
Uh, you're definitely gonna wantto get some additional gear for
(47:12):
longer, colder days out.
Get yourself a nice pack, getyourself a belt, uh, get
yourself the good stuff.
So thank you guys, appreciateit.
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