#138 - Makena Morley - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Loriello.
And today I'm so excited towelcome McKenna Morally to the
show.
McKenna is a professional runnerfor ATIC, actually the first uh
ATICs athlete I have ever had onthe pod, so I was super excited
to get to chat about ATICs andtheir shoes and whatnot.
And up until this point, McKennahad made her name on the roads.

(00:22):
This year in 2025, however, wasa little bit different.
She decided to split timebetween the roads and the
trails, where she had anabsolutely dominant performance
a set of dominant performancesthat included wins of the Don't
Fence Being 25K, the RutVertical Kilometer, and then the
Kodiak 50K, which is where youmight know her name from.
Not just dominant wins, likeabsolute like world beater

(00:44):
dominant wins, because she gotin the top 10 of every race she
ran uh and beat up on a goodamount of elite men.
So, like I said, she has all themakings to be a household name
in the sport, and it's gonna bereally cool to see her career
blossom over the next few yearsas she decides to take on more
um just more competitive raceson a on a world stage and trail.

(01:05):
Um it was fun to chat though.
We caught up on all the stuffthat she really enjoyed from the
season, um, including a lot ofuh ups and downs throughout her
race at the Kodiak 50K that wedebriefed, um, what it's like
racing a vertical kilometer andwhat she took away from that,
uh, and just uh you know why thetrails kind of fit her better
right now and where she's at inher career.

(01:26):
So I really enjoyed this one.
This was a great conversation,hopefully the first conversation
of many.
It's gonna be really fun to seeMcKenna uh and her career just
grow over the next few years.
So without further ado, McKennaMorley.

(02:50):
How's it going?

SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
Good.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I want to throw a big shout outbefore we get started uh to
Jonathan for helping connect us.
I'm just so excited to have youon.
I feel like after following youryour trail races this summer, I
was like, oh, this is a perfectkind of segue to be able to have
you on for a conversation.
So stoked to do this.

SPEAKER_00 (03:10):
Thank you.
I know, excited.
Yeah, new to the trail world.

SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
So Yeah, yeah.
Well, we're gonna talk a lotabout that.
What's up?
Love it.
Ask you a million questions andhow you're liking it so far.
Um, I guess before we getstarted, like maybe give me like
the five-minute elevator pitch.
Like, start with Hawaii.
Let's let's talk about likewhere you came from and where
you're at now.

SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Okay, amazing.
Try to make it chore.
Um, but yeah, basically I grewup, I was born and raised in
Maui, Hawaii.
Um, we my parents moved there.
My dad wanted to windsurf.
So, you know, not really anylike ties to Hawaii, just like
wanted to windsurf.
Um, moved back to Montana when Iwas seven.
Um, my parents are both fromMontana, so came back here and
uh we were from the from theFlathead Valley uh originally.

(03:52):
And so then uh yeah, I kind ofstarted running when I was in
sixth grade, really because Iwas actually like really out of
shape, and my mom was like veryworried for me.
So she was like, you need to runum to get in shape.
And I was like, Oh, I haterunning.
Um, and you know, I kind ofstarted out as like a sprinter
because I was like, that'scooler, you know?
Um, and then kind of got intodistance running and uh kind of
fell in love with it.
I was became kind of successfulin middle school, and I think

(04:15):
that always helps you fall inlove with something a little
faster.
Um, and then yeah, kind of tookit from there um and then ran at
the University of Colorado uhfor college, and then um now I
run professionally for A6 andI'm based out of Bozeman,
Montana.
So kind of long story.
Yeah, or that was pretty short,but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
Amazing, amazing.
I appreciate that.
I because I feel like yeah, it'sperfect to get the audience kind
of recapped on you as theperson.
I want to talk about your justyour upbringing with like mom
and dad as far as like beingheavy influences.
I know I understand your dad wasa sprinter and mom also had a a
distance background as well.
Can you talk about just how muchof an influence that was on you

(04:52):
and maybe your siblings as well,uh kind of growing up and
getting into running?

SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
Oh, for sure.
Yeah.
I mean, my dad sprinted in highschool.
He sprinted at the or MontanaState University here in Bozeman
uh for a couple years.
So he was like definitely moreof that like short, fast Twitch
guy.
And then my mom, she kind of gotinto running, you know, more is
just to be like become fit.
Um she'd got into like thoselocal fun runs and stuff.
So she was the one who kind ofstarted, you know, making

(05:16):
running, like long distancerunning look fun to us.
Even my dad, we were all like,we'd go to, I think the first
big race she did, still one oflike my family's favorite races,
is Bloomsday um in Spokane,Washington.
And we went to watch her and wewere like, whoa, this thing is
like massive and it's so cool,and all these people are doing
it.
So um she then my dad becamecurious, and then it kind of
around that time I was goinginto middle school and I had the

(05:38):
opportunity to join um middleschool cross-country.
So uh I was also fairly out ofshape, and my parents were like,
okay, let's get her intosomething that will, you know,
let's like get her, get her ingood shape.
Um, and I like I think I had runa president's physical fitness
test, you know, at some point,did a mile, and it went like
okay.
So they were like, okay, youknow, she might be okay at this
sport.

(05:58):
Um, but yeah, honestly, like mydad and I both really started
distance running around the sametime.
So, you know, he's been like ahuge me and him have like quite
a bond with that where we kindof started it together.
Um, my brother and sister kindof came along a year or so after
that, and so we all kind of rantogether.
But you know, my mom, her nameis Jill, she's the she's the
real starter of this whole longdistance running thing in the

(06:19):
family.

SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Shout out to Jill.
They're awesome.

SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
Yeah, go Jill.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
Um, all right, let's shift gears.
I want to talk about going tocollege.
I know you started your careerin Montana at the University of
Montana for college first andthen transferred over to the
University of Colorado.
What was it like, especiallylike uh with your experience and
getting really good in highschool and then transitioning to
the collegiate level?

(06:44):
What was that like for you?
Were you heavily recruited outof high school?
Was there a lot of options foryou?
Like, what was the reason tostay close to home?
Stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean, I think I was pretty heavily
recruited out of high school.
You know, I was one of thebetter high schoolers,
especially in cross-country,coming out of the nation.
So I think, you know, I I'm kindof a homebody and I love
Montana.
So I definitely, you know,talked to the other schools.
I even did talk to University ofColorado too at the beginning,
and I kind of was just like, oh,it's a little far away.
Uh and you know, I kind ofultimately chose University of

(07:14):
Montana mostly because it wasclose.
Um kind of having not a greatexperience there with the coach.
So I moved away and went toUniversity of Colorado.
But that honestly was a prettybig jump for me.
I feel like, you know, you know,me and a couple of other people
that I was like, you know, wewere kind of doing really well
at Foot Locker Nationals, thosetype of high school meets in
high school.
And then we came to college andyou're like, whoa, this is a
different animal.

(07:34):
Um, like there's, you know, 150people as fast as you.
And so I think that wasdefinitely like a big jump
coming from, especially Montana,where, you know, the state has
some good runners, but there'snot, you know, a huge depth of
it.
And so I think, you know, cominginto a, you know, a place where
you're like, whoa, okay, I'mlike pretty far down the totem
pole now, and having to workinto that was like, I think a
really growing experience.

(07:55):
And um, especially when Itransferred to University of
Colorado, that was greatbecause, you know, not only you
know, there's a lot of peoplefaster than you in the
collegiate level, there's a lotof people on your team who are
also a lot better than you.
Um, so I think that was likehuge and like learning how to
like be with teammates.
You know, I'd never really hadother than my siblings, I hadn't
really like had teammates that,you know, you run with.

(08:15):
So that was like, I think areally big part of me growing
into um, you know, myself as arunner and learning a lot was
was making that kind of stepinto University of Colorado.
Um, but yeah, once once you kindof got learned the team
atmosphere and learned how tolike race with other people out
there, it was like it was great.

unknown (08:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
So that's interesting to me because I've
met so many folks that competedvery, I mean, Iowa State and
like a lot of very like uhprestigious universities at the
D1 level.
And it's very mixed.
Like a lot of people hated theircollege experience.
A lot of people had greatexperiences as well.
Um, just for you, both as anathlete and a student, would you

(08:52):
grade it A plus uh B?
Like what would you grade it asif you had to look back on the
experience and say I got a greatexperience here, or was it
difficult?

SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
I would say A, because I feel like I learned a
lot from it.
It was very difficult at times.
Not gonna say it wasn't, youknow, there's always stuff that
happens on collegiate teams thatare like a little iffy.
Uh and so I feel like, you know,you're just kind of, you know,
you learn a lot.
I think from my teammates, itwas a very like, you know, a lot
of my best friends are fromuniversity on the team.
Um I still am like very goodfriends with them to this day.

(09:23):
So that has been huge, you know,those like friendships that you
make in relationships.
But I mean it's also a prettycutthroat environment.
So I think it's something, youknow, that's day to day, like
you teaches you a lot and youbecome, you know, it it can it
can either like destroy you oryou can be okay.
Uh and I think luckily I becameokay um in it, which is good.
I don't really know why.
Lucked out.
Um, but yeah, I would say in A,like, you know, school was

(09:45):
great.
Um, I you know, I liked Imajored in anthropology and like
English creative writing.
So um I'm definitely more oflike a writer of that type of
side, um, which, you know, greatschooling experience.
And then yeah, the the team,there was definitely like times
that was very hard, but I thinkit, you know, made me grow as an
athlete.

SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
So amazing.
Can you talk about?
I mean, I I think the trailworld that listens to this
podcast would be familiar with afew names like Aaron Clark, Adam
Peterman, a lot of yourschoolmates and teammates uh at
the University of Colorado.
Can you can you talk a littlebit about um, you know, just
connecting with them?
Did you know them before, or didyou get to meet them when you

(10:22):
got to the university?
Like how how did that play out?

SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
Yeah, great question.
I mean, I one of the big reasonsI kind of even looked at
University of Colorado when Iwas transferring was I was very
good friends with like Adam, um,my boyfriend, my Zach Perrin, he
was there.
And then there was anotherMissoula kid named Chris
Herrick.
Um, and they were all in in atUniversity of Colorado.
So I was like, well, I knowthese guys really well.
So it was like very nice, a kindof a seamless transition to be

(10:45):
able to come into University ofColorado and like have these
people who you know I kind oflooked up to and known pretty
much all through, you know,middle school and high school.
Uh and then Erin Clark, I didnot know before I came, but I
remember her, I remember I alsothought I was just telling her
this recently, I thought she waslike six feet tall because all I
saw of her was posters, youknow.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this girlis six feet tall, and she's like

(11:06):
in an insane runner, and I waslike so intimidated by her.
Um and then I got there, I'mlike, oh, she's not that tall.
She's like five, five, um, orfive, six.
I don't know how tall she is.
Um, but it was so so I did notknow her until I got there.
But honestly, Erin's one of mybest friends.
She is one of those friendshipsthat you know I made in college
and like continue to have as oneof my best friends.
And um, she was a huge mentor tome, you know.

(11:26):
She was two years older than me,and you know, I kind of really
followed in her footsteps.
She's just an incredible racer,um, you know, a very good
teammate, and just, you know,just good at you know everything
that has to do with running.
Um, so she was a big person thatI learned from uh in college,
but you did not know herpreviously.

SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
So cool.
I I just find it so interestingand neat that like a lot of the
names that pop up, and evenlike, wait, were you there along
the same time Tabor was there?
Tabor Shaw?

SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yes, Tabor and I was age.
Yeah.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
I think she's like, I knoweverybody, no, Tabor came in and
then she like took a little bitof a break from school for a
second.
So I think she's technicallylike a year below me in school,
but me and her the same, likewe're the same age.
So yeah, I know Tabor very well.

SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
That's funny.
What a small world.
Uh what was I don't know.
I I want to shift gears too totalking about like the the
professional aspect of it.
As you're getting out ofcollege, obviously you graduated
from college at kind of a crazytime, 2020, 2021 era.
And at that time you're you'reobviously looking just deciding
to go professional, looking fora pro contract.

(12:27):
Could you talk about that timein your life and kind of uh just
how crazy it was?
It was just a different time inthe world.

SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I yeah, graduated in2020.
So I guess like my last, I don'teven know how long was not, you
know, we were kind of remote forschool, so graduated online.
Um, and yeah, it was like areally weird time.
So I feel like we were kind ofmourning the loss of, you know,
not having uh an outdoor season.
Cause I think, you know, for along time we I was actually at
Indoor Nationals, uh, didn't getto race, but we were there when

(12:55):
they called off everything.
Um, and so it was like one ofthe it was just kind of a crazy
time where you were just like,man, I'm done.
Like there's not really anylike, you know, no like whistles
or like, you know, anything big.
Um, so that was interesting,kind of just like getting over
that.
And I think it, you know,honestly, there was a little bit
of a silver lining in thatwhere, you know, you missed that
whole indoor and outdoor season,but then you, you know, you kind

(13:16):
of got way more time to likeactually work with brands and
talk to them.
Whereas like usually it's like,you know, you like get an agent
and then you've you've got twoweeks and you're like signed and
it's like all super fast andcondensed.
Whereas like, you know, I thinkwe all had, you know, kind of
like multiple months.
Like we talked to the, you know,oh my I call it like dating
agents.
You almost feel like you are.
You like talk to them, see it'swhen you like the most.
Um, and then you find an agent,and then yeah, and then I feel

(13:38):
like, you know, I I work withRay Flynn and then you know,
they kind of helped, you know,me work with different brands.
Um, but it was great.
It kind of like prolonged theprocess and made it like a
little bit less stressful um forit being COVID.
So yeah, and then I just youknow talked to multiple brands
and ultimately I kind of wantedto be um, I wanted to be a
little bit more on my own.
Like I love having a team, um,but I knew I wanted to be back

(13:59):
in Montana at some point.
And I originally actually wentto Boise first, Idaho, to train
with uh Emma Bates for a coupleof months and then uh ended up
coming to Bozeman, Montana.
But yeah, I wanted a brand thatyou know would allow me to kind
of pick and choose where I wasat, and ASICs was was that
brand.
So um yeah, that's kind ofthat's how I picked them, and
they've been great ever since.
So yeah.
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
That's amazing.
Well, I I have so many ASICsquestions just because I'm
especially from the trail side,I'm just amazed what they've
been able to do recently.

SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
And oh yeah, they're doing good.

SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Before we get to ASICs, I do have a question.
Why I just think of like so manyathletes coming out of UC
Boulder um as far as on therunning scene.
A lot of athletes stay inColorado.
What was the what was the poolto um I guess go to Bozeman?
Was it more family?
Was it friends?
Like, what was the reason?

SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Yeah, good question.
I mean, Colorado to me is likeit's like it's it's kind of like
Montana, but I like Montanamore.
Oh, you're from Colorado, so Iknow I or you're in Colorado, so
I love Colorado.
Um but I pretty much just alwayskind of was like, I mean, I love
Colorado, it's an amazing placeto go to school, amazing place
to go visit.
Honestly, it's probably a betterplace to train because you it's
you know, it's a little bit lesswintery.
I mean you guys get really harshwinters, but like it's a little

(15:08):
bit better sometimes than youknow, Bozeman is at least.
And so um I feel like I justkind of was wanting, you know, I
just love Montana.
It sounds kind of funny, but Ijust was like, I want to come
back.
Um, and then yeah, honestly,family's huge too.
I'm pretty close with my family.
So being within like, you know,two to four hours or five hours
of my family was a pretty bigthing for me.
So yeah, that's why I wanted tocome back.
It was definitely a move thatwas a little bit scarier just

(15:30):
because, like, you know, there'snot as many people to train with
here.
There's, you know, the it'sdefinitely worse.
Like the winners are suck um forrunning.
And so I think it was one ofthose moves where I was like,
hey, let's try it.
Let's try coming back home as aprofessional runner.
Like in high school it worked,but I wasn't running very many
miles in high school.
So like let's see how this worksas a professional.
And it's it's been okay.
I've definitely had some ups anddowns, you know, with that.

(15:50):
But yeah, the big poll was just,you know, family.
Um, but Colorado is awesome.
Whenever, every time I visit,I'm like, ah, this is pretty
nice here.
I know why people like it.

SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
It's uh, you know, there's trade-offs.
It's I mean, I have to be honestwith you, like that.
Why I I find Wyoming andMontana, I personally and like
Idaho, kind of like the three ofthose better than Colorado, even
though I live here.
But it's always like the grassis always greener on the other
side, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
You know, there's trade-offs.

SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Um there's a little less density, there's a little
less people.

SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
Yes, that I think that's what I'm getting at.
Yeah, it's the it's the amountof tourists.
Um what is it like as far astraining partners and having
people to run with?
I know Grayson Murphy has kindof been I know she, I think
she's back in Bozeman, is thatcorrect?
Or back in Montana?
I know she's had a heavily likeyou guys have trained together.
I've seen even on Instagram youguys on runs and stuff like
that, and it's been talkedabout.
Um has has she been a trainingpartner in the past?

(16:39):
And and how has that kind ofworked as far as training,
finding training partners, likewhere you're living?

SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
Yeah, honestly, when I first came to Bozeman, I think
we moved here in September,October of 2020.
Um, I just did like was brieflyin Boise, then came here.
And Grayson was actually a bigpoll because she was living here
in 2020 at the time.
And so I was like, you know,I've got, you know, an immediate
person I can train with.
We didn't know each other super,super well, but we had raised
because we were both in Pac-12.
Um, and so we had like racedeach other in college multiple

(17:05):
times and knew of each other.
Um, and so when I came here, Ikind of immediately started
training with her.
Uh, she was doing, you know, atthat point it was kind of winter
time.
So she was doing a lot of roadrunning and track running.
So, you know, we did a lot ofstuff together.
Um, she ended up leaving, Ithink, May of 2021.
So we weren't actually in bosomfor that long together at first.
Um, but yeah, after she left, Istarted working with, I mean, as
soon as I moved here, I startedworking with the um MSU coach,

(17:29):
Lyle Wees.
And so he was my coach for aboutfour-ish years, maybe just over.
Um, and so I would work out alot with the MSU team, which
honestly was like huge.
Like I guess I didn't have ateam anymore, but I kind of did
because I kind of just came andstarted working out with like a
lot of times I'd run with theMSU guys team.
If I could keep up, I would justtry to be like tagging along.
Um, and so that was like I thinkreally good for me to come from

(17:50):
college and not just likeimmediately have to be by
myself.
Um, and to have someone likeGrayson, who had been running
professionally for a couple ofyears already as a mentor, and
then also to have like this biggroup of people that I could
kind of jump in with whenever,you know, worked and fit in.
Uh so yeah, so you know,honestly for like four years I
trained with pretty much withjust Montana State University,
um, which was great.
So that that was always like avery helpful thing to have.

SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
Super cool.
What was it like as far as liketraining with them?
Like, do you can you like accessthe facilities?
Like you can use all theirweight room and stuff like that.
Like is it pretty much like justlike being an athlete like on
the team, kind of?

SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
Yeah, I kind of I didn't really use their weight
room or anything like that, butI just kind of I would mostly
you could use the indoor trackwhenever um and I usually would
just go when they went too.
Um and I also was like assistkind of volunteer assistant
coaching, so I get to travelwith them a ton, which was
awesome.
So I feel like I was like kindof a mentor for them, but also
could run with them, which waslike really amazing and like
helped me as a runner a ton.
But yeah, I pretty much coulduse all the stuff, which was

(18:44):
very convenient because I waslike, hey, I need I need an
indoor track, it's uh negative10 outside.
So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
That's amazing.
All right, let's shift gears.
I I do want to get into ASICs.
I find it so cool um justbecause I think you're the only
American trail-ish A6 athleteright now, ish.

SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:06):
Yeah, but let's talk about that.
So you signed this professionalcontract, you're on the roads
mostly, and this was the yearyou came over and you started
doing I mean we'll talk aboutyour season.
Obviously, it was superdominant, and you kind of did,
you know, a little bit of both.
Are are how does that work asfar as like you as a
professional?
Like, are is that totally fine?
Like with you to be able to mixit up on the trails and the
track?

(19:27):
Like, is that supported?

SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
Yeah, I mean, that's what was like amazing, love
ASICs.
Um, you know, I work with BenCaesar, he's the guy who I work
with at ASICs, and um, I waskind of nervous, you know, to
like bring it up.
I kind of, you know, I uh waitedtill I think I think it was May
or something this last year.
Um, and I had been intriguedbecause you know, I've you know,
my boyfriend runs 100K's Adamand Aaron, you know, I go see
them running 100K, 100 miles,and I'm like, ooh, this is

(19:50):
fairly intriguing.
Uh and I was like, for a while,I was like, no, dumb, not doing
that.
Um, and then it was like finallyit kind of got to me.
I was like, oh, you know, itlooks kind of fun.
Uh and I do train on trails alot too.
So I was just like, you know, itkind of makes sense as a kid
growing up.
Like I used to love to, we didlike these trail races straight
up big mountain, the ski hills.
So I was like, hmm, makes sense.
Um and so, but I wanted to kindof do a trail run race first, a

(20:13):
local one to like see how itwent.
Because I was like, if this isterrible, I'm gonna double, you
know, rethink this decision.
Um, and so it went pretty good.
And I was like, okay, I just didone in Helena, Montana, which
was super fun, hour and a halfaway from here.
Um, and then I was like, youknow what?
I feel like that was decent.
I don't really know what I'mlooking at.
So like I think it went well.
Uh and so then I was like, youknow, I'll reach out to Ben

(20:34):
Caesar uh with A6, and he was sosupportive.
Like it was they they've beenamazing.
Like he was super stoked aboutit.
I think, you know, their trailissues have come a long way,
like all their stuff has comepretty far.
So I think they were prettyexcited to have somebody like,
you know, that's already withthem that would be excited to
kind of jump into the trailscene.
Um and they've been likesupportive, they've you know,
pretty much kind of left it upto me whether or not I want to

(20:56):
continue to do roads or if Iwant to do trail or if I want to
do a mix of both.
Um, I I do want to do a mix ofboth still, so I definitely will
be doing some, you know, I don'tknow if it's gonna be 50-50 or
you know, 30-70.
Um, but I definitely kind ofwant to do, you know, do both.
But they've been like sosupportive, which is which has
been really helpful with this.

SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
So cool.
Well, and I think it's a superdoable thing.
And it, at least for shorttrail, I can say it seems to
work out really well.
I mean, now you've seenobviously Grayson was kind of
the as far as on the trail side,kind of paved the way.
Um, you know, Anna Gibson.
There's plenty of women outthere that are so strong on both
sides that are able to do it andhave successful careers doing

(21:35):
it.
I just I'm really excited to,you know, especially after the
season that you just had, to seeyou out here crushing.
And I'll and I'll just speak forand let me know if I missed any
of these.
You raised Don't Fence Win,which is a toy.
Oh yeah, my first one.
Second overall, first place.
Uh you raised Kodiak, obviously.
We'll we'll get into Kodiak,we'll talk about that in a
little bit.

(21:55):
And then I think the one thatstuck out for me the most, just
because like I love the mountainclassics in the VKs, is yo, like
fifth place overall at the RutVK, like and first place woman,
and then you beat Joan by aminute.
Poor Joan.

SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
I know.
I know.

unknown (22:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Hey, you do it, wasn't he?
You do all three, right?
Yeah, I feel like that.
Did he do the trifecta?
Yeah, so that's okay.
He was he was probably taking iteasy.

SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Um but yeah, just I mean, what an insane, like just
a little dabbling in the sport.
Well, I just gotta ask you,like, what excites you about it
right now?
Like what uh what has yourintrigue as far as the trails
go?

SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
Yeah, honestly, it's been, you know, I kind of
looking at the roads.
Like I feel like I've been likekind of hitting my head on this
wall.
Um, I had a couple years where Iwas pretty injured, and then
like coming back has been, youknow, has been hard.
Cause I'm like, you know,looking at these marathoners and
you know, not to be likenegative, but like I'm knocking
around 212.
So it's like I kind of like oneof those things where it's like
you're trying to find your spacein the sport.
And and I was just kind of like,you know, I'm I don't know where

(22:54):
I'm feeling with this, with the,you know, I want to still run a
really fast marathon, but likewhere am I at with this?
Um, and then the trail stuffreally was intriguing me.
And, you know, I think there's alot to be like explored in the
trail world.
I think it's like becomingreally big right now.
It's been a big thing, but Ithink all of a sudden it looks
to be pretty much kind ofexploding, like kind of all
around the world.
Um, and so I was like, you know,this looks, you know, fun.

(23:15):
And like maybe I had this likekind of theory where like, you
know, maybe if I work on moretrails, you know, I'll get a lot
stronger and like work on allthose like little muscles and
like the quad muscles and thepower, and you know, maybe I can
bring that back over to theroads and maybe run better on
the roads.
So I was kind of like testingout this thing.
So I kind of it made it honestlylike it took a little bit of
pressure, especially once A6was, you know, on board and
behind it.

(23:35):
It takes some of the pressureoff of, I would say, each of
them, because especially if I'mdoing both, um, to kind of be
like, you know, let's do thebest I can at each one of these.
But I'm kind of gonna do theones that's that's making me
more happy at the time, which Ithink just I think if you're
happier, you're gonna runbetter.
Um, and so you know that was thebiggest intrigue for me was I
was excited about trail running,more excited than I had been

(23:55):
about road running.
Um, and I just was like, youknow, let's jump in and give it,
give it a try and see and seewhat happens.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
I love it.
I love it.
Now, you got this cheer, youkind of like mixed it up.
You got a chance to do the VK,which is a super iconic race.
I love the rut and everythingthat they do.
But you also got to do as far asthe 50K.
Seeing friends and family kindof race the longer stuff, is
there more intrigue to do thelonger stuff, or is it like just
short trail kind of call to youright now?

SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Oh, for sure.
I mean, I definitely would liketo do some of those, like, you
know, 100K, would love to get,you know, a chance to run
western states, those type ofthings.
I I'm kind of trying to, youknow, not be too greedy at first
and just kind of work my waythere too.
I think, you know, with whereI'm at with road running, you
know, doing this trail runninghas kind of like re-sparked a
love for road running, which haslike been very cool to see.
Um, and you know, road running,even track running, I've kind of

(24:45):
been excited about, which islike have not been for like a
year or so.
Um, and so I'm like, I thinkwith like where I'm at there
where I do want to continuerunning some on the roads, I
think like non-sully the bestthing for me right now is to
kind of stick to something likethe 50K and down.
Um, but definitely in the nextcouple years, yeah, we'll we'll
probably move up to trying outsome hundred Ks and maybe even
100 miles.

SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Okay, okay.
No, I like it.
You know what?
I'm I'm curious to ask you thisbecause like, but I think it was
right after or somewhere in thetime frame of Don't Fence Me In,
we had the Son of Peace Gramble,which was the mountain classic
for the world selection team.
Did that ever cross your mind tolike go there and mix it up?
Or was it let me just test thisout first and just see how I

(25:27):
like it?
Um, or did the idea of likemaybe trying to get on Team USA
without really like you know,doing a ton at like it in in
background wise, like did thatkind of um cross your mind at
all?

SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
It did cross my mind, I gotta say, I was like
terrified of the first one.
So I was like, I gotta hide andI need this to be as like
low-key as as I possibly can.
I'm gonna drive the day beforeand get there.
Um so for that one, I definitelywas like, I wanted to do a local
one.
The you know, the uh brokenarrow one did cross my mind a
little bit with, you know,trying to do because at that
point I had run, I had run one.

(26:02):
I'd run hell out of one.
Uh and I was like, okay, maybe Icould do that, but I had planned
on grandma's marathon.
Um so I was like, you know, I'lljust do grandma's.
I like I almost switched it.
I had a couple times, like I waspretty back and forth.
ASICs was all for like they'relike, you know, do what you want
to do.
If you don't want to dograndma's, you can do broken
arrow.
Um, but I was still a little bitscared because, you know, I'm
definitely like technically notthe best trail runner.

(26:24):
Um, and so I'm working on mylike technical skills with that.
And I was like, broken arrowmight be kind of hard.
Um, and so I was I honestly andI didn't really know like what a
VK was like.
I'd never done one before.
So, you know, now looking back,I almost kind of wish I would
have just gotten done the VK.
Um, but I think the yeah, Ithink you know it was good, it
kind of worked out good becauseI think, you know, I slowly did
it and you know didn't doanything that was like too

(26:46):
outside of my, you know, where Iwas like scared to do it at
first.
I mean, I was definitely scaredto do the VK and scared for
Kodiak, but like I felt like alittle more comfortable that by
that point.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
What what did you think of the VK?
Because that's such a differentI mean it's I don't know.
It's basically a 400 as hard asyou can go, like for 40 minutes.
Yeah, basically.
Uh what was your what was yourthought on that as far as the
climbing and just the becausethat's a I would argue that's
one of the more technical, notthat we have a lot of VKs in
America, but that's probably themost technical VK we have.

SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
Yeah, I was honestly signed up for it and then was
like, oh my god, why did I dothat?
Um, but then you know I gotthere and I was I was so
nervous.
Like I I mean I get to thesemarathons and stuff now, and I
feel like I'm nervous, butyou're like, oh, you know, I've
got 26 miles to figure this out.
So um, and I've kind of done itso many times that I'm like,
okay, I'm comfortable with this.
But the VK, I was like, feltlike I was back in college
running like a mile.

(27:36):
And then I was like, I was likeso nervous.
Um, and I was, you know, I itwas I loved it.
It was so fun.
It was like terrible, but sofun.
Um, if that makes sense.
Like I would definitely like todo, I'm kind of surprised
because I kind of thought like,oh, I'll do it and it's gonna be
because everybody was like,yeah, VKs are horrible.
Um and I was like, okay, soundsgood.
Um, but it was really like, Iguess I would compare it to like

(27:57):
an all-out, yeah, like mile.
Honestly, it's probably similarto like if you run a 5k right in
track, it's pretty horrible fromlap one to lap 12.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, if you doit right.
Um, and so I think honestly thatVK was would probably compare to
something like that.
And I haven't done an effortlike that in a long time.
I've definitely been more likehalf marathon, marathon.
So I kind of liked it, and Ithink I want to do some more of

(28:20):
that.

SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
Oh, okay, all right.
Yeah, I'd love to hear it.
Does especially with the ASICsbackground and ASICs um now with
I don't know, two two men thispast year on uh the podium of
UTMB and stuff like that.
I know there's a lot of brandpool to want to have an audience
there and stuff like that.
Then you go obviously and runKodiak win that.

(28:42):
I would assume that's for you togo do OCC next year.
Is that is that I guess thecorrect guess?

SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
Yeah, that is a correct guess.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I feel like I watched all that.
I mean, I've been like followingUTMB, CCC, like OCC, those races
for a while now, just with youknow, Adam Peterman and Aaron
Clark in them.
And so just like, you know, goodfriends and I like to follow
along.
Um, and you know, Tabor, those,you know, everybody there.
So I feel like they've been veryintriguing, like those ones.
I just feel like too, it's a bigstage.

(29:09):
So it would be definitely alittle bit out of my comfort
zone.
You know, it's definitely lessrunnable than like something
like Kodiak for sure.
Um, but I definitely was veryintrigued by trying to qualify
it and and qualify for it andwant that challenge of like, I
don't know, I love to do reallywell at at you know at OCC.
So um that is that's kind of mylike big one of 2026 will be,
you know, OCC.

SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
Well, uh, since we're on that topic of 2026, I
know it's this is really hard tokind of like look ahead and
start to plan stuff, but I feellike as trail runners, we're all
kind of planners, we're all kindof like, oh, this looks cool.
That looks cool.
Um I would I would assume maybewe'll see you with Broken Arrow
as well.
Is that something else that's onthe list?
Or yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I've got a couple writtendown, but yeah, broken arrow is
on there, and you know, maybeCanyons um 50k would be on there
um to get another one of those.
But yeah, I think I'll do, youknow, honestly at the beginning
of the year.
I'm probably gonna I thoughtabout a marathon, um, but I'm
probably just gonna do some uhyou know some half marathons and
that type of thing to kind ofget my speed um up and like kind
of keep it up and then kind oftransition to more like longer

(30:10):
trail stuff for um end of April.
Uh a little bit harder to get onsome trails here too and
imposing uh in the wintertime.
So we'll have to go find somesomewhere.
Um but yeah, so that you knowwould maybe start with canyons
in April.

SPEAKER_01 (30:23):
Okay.
On the topic of canyons and thisis just stylistically in
general, different things getdifferent people out of bed in
the morning.
With your speed and yourbackground, is it something like
that's flatter, faster, moreinteresting to you, or is it
more the mountainous stuff thatkind of like calls to you?

SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
Definitely, I mean, definitely more runnable.
I would say is like only becauseI'm more comfortable with it.
Um so I think you know, thosethose are more like I'm like I
feel more comfortable going intoit, but I also think like the
more mountainous ones are likescary to me, which is kind of
fun.
Like I haven't felt like superscared of a race until I started
doing some trail running.
And so, and I kind of like thatfeeling.

(31:01):
Like it's like kind of fun to gointo it being very nervous for
something and like feel like youdo have a lot to, I mean, I feel
like there's a lot to work onthat I have to like get to those
mountainous ones, um, whichseems fun to me.
It seems like it's like you haveto definitely be more skilled to
do well at those.
So I think it's like good tolearn.
You know, I haven't felt like Imean it's like there's like
definitely a lot of improvementI can do in the marathon and
stuff, but it's like skill-wise,it's more just like, oh, let me

(31:22):
work, you know, work hard, runthese paces more, that type of
thing.
Whereas like with the trailstuff, it's like, oh no, I need
to get on some, you know, I needto actually get better at
running on a trail.
So that's kind of you know,that's intriguing for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yeah.
And it's it's interesting.
Like, I I it's funny, I spitballthis with my coach all the time.
We always talk about uh becauseI, you know what I find myself,
especially in the off season, Ido you know more road running
and just more stuff on the trackfor my workouts and stuff.
And I always worry, I'm like, amI gonna lose like certain
muscular adaptations that I'vemade?
And that's what the obviouslythe gym is really important and
stuff like that.

(31:54):
Do you do you spend a lot oftime and like do lifts and stuff
like that or lift uh and do alot of like cross-training?
Like, what is your kind of yourbackground like for that?

SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
Yeah, honestly, I actually hate lifting.
I know it's good for you.
I do go in twice a week.
Um, and I I do some sort of I Ilike to also do some like
strength Pilates, which I'vekind of stolen from a lot of the
Australian runners.
Um, and so I've been doing someof that, but that's more just
like I usually try to do thatlike maybe once a week on the
side.
Um and then yeah, I go into thegym, like you know, I try to get
in for sure once a week.

(32:23):
Um, and then I do try to get inalso um, I'll try to get in
twice a week too.
And it's not anything like veryamazing that you see, but I
definitely work, try to work inthere to get, you know, you
know, strength up in the kneesand everything.
My I have some weird knees.
So um I try to do like you knowsome squats and that type of
thing.
Um, but I that's something I'vebeen doing for like, I guess,
you know, my whole pro career isjust going, you know, going to
the gym a couple days a week.

(32:43):
Um and then cross-training, Igot well, I was pretty injured
like two years ago for like ayear and a half, and so I got
really into gravel biking.
And so that was great.
So I do a lot, like if I amgonna cross-train, I usually
will try to gravel bike.
Um in Bozeman, it's like prettyeasy to cross-century ski.
Um, so I also will do somecross-century skiing here in the
wintertime for some likecross-training.
So I feel like most of the timeI'm just running, so I am kind

(33:06):
of a high volume person and I dolike to like just log a lot of
miles.
Um, but when I'm feeling like Ineed it, I'll add in some of
those type of cross-trainingthings.

SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
Interesting.
Yeah, I want to go back in timea little bit and talk about just
like what it's like growing upin Montana.
Because I guess I kind of I wantto thread that with the
cross-country skiing aspectbecause I feel like if you grow
up in Montana, you have accessand you know, it's it's really,
really good, obviously.
Like, what was it like for yourupbringing?
Obviously, lots of time ontrails, lots of time in the

(33:34):
outdoors.
Um, would you say that likethat's the kind of where your
love for the outdoors and trailscomes from?
Or do you think it was more likemom and dad that kind of like
facilitated that?

SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
Yeah, I mean, they honestly my parents are awesome.
They've taken us out and likewe've been in nature for like we
did tons of stuff outsidegrowing up, which is like
definitely on them.
Like, thank you, Bob Dad, fordoing that.
Um, but no, we were actuallyhuge.
Like my first love was actuallysnowboarding.
Um, and so I got really intosnowboarding.
We didn't do a ton of likenorthern, we did like Nordic
skiing as a family, not like I'mpretty bad at it.

(34:06):
I think it's a very goodcross-training tool, but I'm
like bad.
Um, and so but we would do it asa family for fun, mostly just
like going out on logging roadsand just classic skiing.
Um, and then we would go up to,you know, the we would go up to
Big Mountain, which is nowcalled Whitefish Mountain Resort
in Whitefish, Montana, and wewould camp at the ski hill every
weekend, literally from when Iwas in second grade to when I
graduated high school.

(34:26):
Um, and we would just snowboard,you know, a snowboard ski uh all
weekend.
So I think those were thingsthat, you know, I think I worked
on a lot of different, I didn'tjust run, you know, seven days a
week when I was kind of growingup.
We did a lot of different thingslike that.
Like we would just go be outsideall the time.
We did a lot of my dad buildscanoes, um, cedar canoes and
kayaks and stuff for a living.
So uh we also do a lot of like,you know, kayaking in the um

(34:49):
spring and the summer and thefall too.
So we were outside a lot.
And so I think honestly, justlike being outside so often and
like them giving us theopportunities to like do all
these fun things like skiing andsnowboarding and cross-country
skiing, kayaking, and likeeverything like that, definitely
has like sparked, you know, alove for the outdoors.
And yeah, we were on trails allthe time.
My dad would always wedefinitely ran them like way too

(35:09):
hard, like we didn't understandhow to run trails.
Um, but we like we were like, ohyeah, sprint as fast as you can
up.
Awesome.
Um, and I was like, why are theyso hard?
Uh but yeah, I feel like wedefinitely did a lot of those
growing up.

SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
I got I gotta ask you this because I ask every
Montana slash Wyoming athletethat the grizzly bear situation.
Like terrible in Colorado, weobviously don't have grizzly
bears.
I think that's probably a goodthing.
Um, but I don't know, grizzlybears are also really cool.
So no disparagement againstgrizzly bears.
But still you have them there.
Is it what is it like likerunning on trails with grizzlies

(35:42):
all the time?
Or like at least they're there,you know, more or less.
Like, is it a healthyunderstanding of not going on
certain trails during certaintimes of the year, or is it, you
know, just kind of be aware ofyour surroundings, like maybe
kind of paint that picture andyeah, great question.

SPEAKER_00 (35:58):
So I'm not brave, gotta say.
I there are brave people, notone of them.
Um, and so I uh, you know,growing up in the Flyhead, uh,
you know, we kind of I didn'tgrow up like in town, I
definitely grew up outside oftown.
Uh and we would see, there'sless now, but we would see
grizzly bears, we ran with bearspray all fall, um, like even
like on our roads, just likearound our house, because we

(36:18):
would see like multiple mamasand two cubs.
Um, and a couple times theywould chase your car, and you're
like, okay, well, if they'regonna chase a car, what are they
gonna do to a human?
Um, I think they were more likecurious about it, but like we
were like, oh god.
Um, so we yeah, and we did, andthen there's been multiple times
where we were like running on.
We my dad loves to go run onlogging roads, so we would go
run on all kinds of loggingroads, kind of like in Swan

(36:38):
Lake, kind of heading up towardsthe Bob Marshall area.
And uh there's, you know, wewould see them.
I we scared a couple, I've seenthem fall out of a tree right
next to you because it's been ayoung one and they get scared.
So I mean, I definitely seesome.
I actually had my most recent, Ihaven't had an encounter with
one, I guess for like threeyears, maybe.
The last one was up in the swanwhen I was running with my dad
and my friend, and we scared oneof them out of a tree.

(37:00):
And he like fell down, and thenwe're like, oh my god, stop.
Um, and I'm one of those peoplewhere my boyfriend told me he's
added, like, you know, there'slike fight or flight.
He's added a third response.
It's called escalate.
So I apparently escalate thesituation and I flight.
So I'm like not good in thosesituations at all.
Um, and so I yeah, we saw onethis summer.
We were way back in theBeartooth Wilderness, which is a

(37:20):
couple hours from Bozeman, anduh we saw we were maybe 13 miles
back on this trail, and we sawMama and the Cub very close.
Me and uh one of my good friendsand my boyfriend.
So it was pretty scary.
We were like in a actually not agreat situation.
We had bear spray um and we gotout of it okay, but the mama was
not being super, she was not notcharging, but she wasn't being

(37:41):
she wasn't ignoring us either.
So it was one of thosesituations where I was like,
wow, so you definitely inBozeman, like you know, the
flathead for sure, you have tobe wary of it.
And then Bozeman, I think, youknow, like the bridgers, the
mountain range right in Bozeman,there's more black bears there
for sure.
Like, I think there's like anoccasional passing through
grizzly.
So I think you know, justrunning with bear's phrase is
important, but like kind ofanywhere towards like big sky or

(38:02):
yellowstone, anything like thatis gonna have grizzlies.
So I honestly don't run a lotover there unless I've got like
a bigger group, because no wayI'm doing that by myself.
Uh, and so yeah, I think that'sbeen a big thing kind of jumping
into trail running because likemore when I was, you know, the
last couple years when I waslike trail running for training,
I would do more of like in towntrails.
Whereas like now I'm like, oh, Ido kind of have to get some vert

(38:24):
and like get into the mountains.
And so that's been likeinteresting, kind of picking
different ones.
But I'm I'm a scaredy cat.
I'd rather like loop a small onethan like go way out and see a
bear by myself.
So yeah, uh definitely somethingwe just gotta bring bear spray
and be careful.

SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
So crazy.
Oh, I think they chased cars.
What the hell?

SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
I know I haven't had that was when I was young, so I
haven't had that a little bit.
That was when we were in like Ithink we're in high school, but
yeah, I was terrifying.
We were like, oh, they weren'tgonna like, I think it was the
Cubs, and they were just like,What is that?
And they were just chasing thecars, like, oh, it's a toy.
Yeah, scary.

SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
Wild, absolutely wild.
Um, I want to shift gears alittle bit and talk to you about
training and the sense of likeblocks and pyramidization.
Like, do you are you stillworking with a coach or do you
self-coach now?

SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
Yeah, so I, you know, I switched working from
Wild We uh about a year, justover a year ago, uh, the Montana
State coach.
He was great.
I just feel like we kind ofwanted, you know, we need I
needed to shift a little bit.
And then I work worked with Ed IStone, the BYU coach, uh for
about a year.
And then I have beenself-coached now for since May.
Um, so it's been great.
Honestly, it's been, yeah, it'sbeen like a huge learning

(39:32):
process.
Uh, I think I've grown a lot asan athlete from it and learned a
lot like about myself and andhave had to really teach myself
how to like do stuff on my ownagain.
And like it's been it's beenhuge, I think.
But yeah, I've been doing it onmy own now for I don't know how
long it is, eight months maybe.

SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
So yeah.
Are you are you like a nerdabout it, or is it more so like
just like more relaxed?
Like I know I meet some peoplelike that are obsessed.
They're like, oh, every everylittle way to gain one to two
percent of a you knowperformance improvement, they're
going for it.
And then there's some peoplethat are just like kind of, I
don't know, a little morechilled and laid back on it.
Like how how would you fityourself on that spectrum?

SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
Definitely more on the chill side, I would say.
I mean, I definitely like I likeI feel like kind of like a nerve
when I'm writing out mytraining.
Like I'll write out a whole fourmonths at a time.
Obviously, I change stuff duringthat time because I'm like
writing it all out, but I getvery excited.
Like I love writing workouts, Ilove kind of putting them into a
schedule.
I'm like a pretty type A person,so like I like like a nice
seven-day schedule at a time.

(40:30):
Um, and so that for me is reallyfun.
But I am pretty flexible.
Like I kind of get to like eachweek and I will definitely
change stuff around based on howI'm feeling.
And I think that's been nice tofeel like I'm not too, you know,
like stressed out about it,where I won't change anything.
Whereas I feel like with acoach, I almost was like that,
where it was like I felt likethey assigned me something and I
was like, my body's not ready,but I'm gonna do it anyway

(40:52):
because I got assigned that.
Whereas like now coachingmyself, I'm like, hey, let's
like, I mean, even today was agood example.
I like tried doing a workoutyesterday, failed horribly,
pushed it to today, went good.
So it was one of those thingswhere like I didn't used to do
that before.
And so now it kind of gives methat ability to move stuff
around.
And I think with adding thetrail running into like my body
was definitely not used to doingall that vert and you know, the

(41:13):
up and the down.
And so I had to really work withlike, you know, how do I feel?
Do I need to push these multipledays?
But yeah, I would say definitelymore chill.
I'm definitely will move stuffaround as needed.
Um, and I definitely havescience and like what I've
learned behind it, but it's morelike less sciencey and more of
like, hey, I've had four or fivecoaches in my life, what has
worked the best for me and inputting it all together together

(41:36):
like that.

SPEAKER_01 (41:37):
Interesting.
Do you uh especially because youare a coach?
Like, how do you like uh yeah,how do you like first of all,
how do you like being a coach?
And is there anything like isthere like more stuff that you
can apply for yourself that youcan also test out on your
athletes?
Or like how does how does thatwork?

SPEAKER_00 (41:54):
Yeah, great.
I honestly, and that's why likeI feel like I've kind of been
slowly moving towards coachingmyself for like the last couple
years, um, because I havecoached with Ron Doyen um for
two years now, and then I didcoach with Montana State
University, um like a volunteercoach, but I was you know there
every day doing that with them.
So uh I love it.
Like I love coaching people, Ilove writing the workouts and

(42:15):
like looking how it all fitstogether as like a whole.
Um, like you know, I lovewriting like a big training
block, like a three-monthtraining block and being like,
hey, change stuff when we needto, but like here's kind of the
sense of what we want it to looklike.
Um, and so I think, you know,looking into that, and I
honestly I used to write a lotof my training in high school
with my dad.
And so I and I loved it.
Like I remember loving writingthat.
And so I was like, you know, Ithink this could be really fun

(42:37):
for me to do that because Ienjoy it so much as my athletes.
Maybe I can like take what Iwrite for them and just write it
for myself.
Um, and so yeah, I feel like ittaught me a lot to work with all
of them.
I have mostly people doing like,you know, marathons and a lot of
people who want Bostonqualifiers and that type of
thing.
Um, but I feel like I've learneda lot from the athletes on, you
know, what people like.
Obviously, everybody'sdifferent, so different stuff

(42:59):
works for everybody.
But um, I feel like I it's niceto kind of see like, okay, this
workout works really well foryou know all my athletes, so
maybe I'll try it.
Um, and stuff like that.
And I feel like my athletes aresmart, like I learn stuff from
them too, all the time.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:11):
So cool.
Uh, where do you find yourselfnow as far as like in build?
Like, are you getting ready foranything in the short term?
Do you have coming up?

SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
Yes.
So I kind of, okay, so I wasgonna do, I did Kodiak, and then
I was like, kind of had I wasgonna originally maybe do
California, CIM, CaliforniaInternational Marathon.
I think, you know, I've beenwanting to do that one for a
long time.
I also feel like in my brain, Ineeded to have something I know
that I can do after Kodiak incase Kodiak went terribly.

(43:39):
Um, and so I feel like I waslike, all right, we're gonna go
for Kodiak.
I'm gonna put, I kinda, I mean,I kind of put a lot of my eggs
in that Kodiak basket and wasjust like, let's go for it.
This is my big race this season.
Um, but I also was like, hey,let's have a backup in case,
like, you know, not great.
Um, and so uh I and I wanted to,I still was going to do CIM, but
I did kind of came out ofKodiak.

(44:01):
I have some like knee stuff thatI kind of always deal with.
Um and I did a couple faceplants in in Kodiak on nothing.
I didn't, I literally was, Ifell on dirt.
I don't even know what happened.
Um, and so I think I just waslike trying a little bit too
hard a couple times and justmiffed it.
Um so I did hit land on myknees, so my knee got a little
wonky um after Kodiak and I, youknow, tried to kind of come back
pretty quick because I was like,oh, you know, I've got eight

(44:22):
weeks here between that and CIM.
Um, and my body just said, youknow, nope, we're done.
So, you know, I took a coupledown weeks, but then uh another
thing that I had originally onmy schedule, kind of before CIM,
was uh US Cross.
So I am actually gonna do USCross.
It's December 6th, so I've gotjust under a month.
So I'm trying to get fast, we'reworking the speed.

SPEAKER_01 (44:43):
Nice.

unknown (44:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:45):
So cool.
All right, I feel like I glossedover Kodiak, and I do want to
get into that because like yousaid, it was your A race, it was
such a cool performance.
Um first off, like how long,like how long out did you know
that you were gonna jump intothat race?
Like, had that been a plan for awhile, or was it a very last
second thing?
Like, how how are you able to uhyou tell me?

SPEAKER_00 (45:05):
Yeah, kind of last minute.
I mean, those UT and B races arepretty hard to get into.
So I feel like, especially ifyou don't have any sort of
score, and if you don't sign upin time, and I'm so used to
like, you know, road racing iskind of different where like you
just, you know, if you're ifyou're a pro road racer, you can
kind of get into the I mean it'sgood to get into them a month or
so out, or maybe more than that,but you can kind of seek your
way in, even if you're like,hey, a week before I want to do

(45:27):
this.
So I'm a little more coming fromthose lines, and I didn't
understand how hard it was toget into these trail races.
I was like, what is this?
Um, so I did I so I did run umthe Don't Fence Me In, which was
scored under, you know, they'vescored it in UTMB.
And so I got, yeah, so that's soI got a 20k score with that.
And I emailed Paula.

(45:48):
I love Paula, she's great.
Um, and she I forgot her lastname, but she works with UTMB.
Uh and she, yeah, go Paula.
Love her.
She got me in this race, so lovePaula.
Um, but I I was so annoying.
I literally emailed Paula, I'mnot joking, 45 times.
Um, and I was like, please letme in.
Uh I up, I asked her every week,um, do you have any openings?

(46:08):
Uh, because you know, she waslike, You have a high enough,
you got a high 20k score, butyou know, you don't have a 50k
score.
So I was just like, I don'tcare, I'll pay.
Doesn't matter, just give me aspot.
So it honestly took, I can'tremember when she said that they
were gonna open up spots.
I had to, you know, I paid formy spot, but I like was like, I
don't care, just give meanything.
Um, and so I can't remember whenthat was, but it was kind of the
summer.

(46:28):
It was after don't fence me in.
It was after I talked to ASICsjust to see, like, hey, is that
an option for me to do a 50k?
Um, and then you know, then I Ithink it's probably June or July
that I kind of like officiallysigned up for that.
Probably July by the time I wasthey let me in.
But yeah, very, very happy toget into it.

SPEAKER_01 (46:45):
So cool.
All right, so you're in therace.
Is it weird for you?
Like, do people re like did wereyou recognized at all?
Were people like, oh, like Iknow who that girl is?
Like as far as like on the startline or something like that, or
are you still a little anonymousto where they're not quite sure?
Uh because they don't reallyknow the road scene.

SPEAKER_00 (47:02):
I feel like a lot of trailrunners don't know the road
scene.
There definitely are people whodo know the road scene who like,
but you I think like at theseraces, like there was a, you
know, I don't know how manypeople.
I think some of the people, thepro people at the front, maybe
knew.
And there's a couple people thatI had know at anyway that knew
probably, you know, a couple ofthe women that I've met before,
um, and or met through Graysonor something that I that

(47:24):
probably knew.
And so, but yeah, I think amajority of people didn't
really, didn't really know,other than maybe like, oh, she's
wearing an ASICs jersey, whichwe don't see very often in US
trail races.

SPEAKER_01 (47:33):
Right, right, right.
That's why that's part of thereason why I asked too.
It's like it's yeah, we don'tsee a lot of ASICs uh singlets,
and also I don't know.
I think it I think it's kind ofcool too to have a little bit of
anonymity because very soon likeeverybody's gonna know who you
are in the trail space.
So it's like, you know, enjoyit, soak it in while you can.

SPEAKER_00 (47:52):
Yep.
Yeah, I mean I was kind of Ikind of liked it.
I was like, this is nice becauseI feel like I don't know, the
road stuff we get so hyped andlike it's great and it's super
fun, but it was like a littlebit nice to almost be like a
little more low-key and justlike, okay, I'm gonna go into
this.
It took some of the pressure offtoo, because I was like very
nervous and I definitely wantedto come into Kodiak and do
really well at my first like bigtrail race.
Um, but there was you know apart of me too that was unsure

(48:14):
how it was gonna go because Iwas like, I've never run this
far, never run this long.
So who knows how it'll go.

SPEAKER_01 (48:20):
How did the race unfold for you?
Like, obviously, from theoutside looking in, like the
reels and everything and seeingvideo, like you looked very
smooth, looked calm, lookedcomposed.
How did the race like actuallygo for you?
Like, was it did it play outthat way, or was it like a shit
show?
Like what what how did it go?

SPEAKER_00 (48:36):
It was kind of a shit show at the beginning.
Uh so I like started and I feltgreat.
Like the first like four, I waslike clicking along.
Um, I think I had a prettydecent lead by like four and a
half miles because it was it'sreally runnable.
It's like kind of more flat, andI was like, okay, this is in my
wheelhouse for sure.
And then, you know, the firstclimb, you know, the first and
biggest climb of the Kodiak onewas at is it four and a half

(48:57):
miles?
And I was following a couple proguy trail runners who I had kind
of picked out before the race uhfrom their straba.
I stalked them.
Um and I was like, ooh, thesepeople are people I can probably
run with.
Um, and I was like, so I pickedthem and I was running behind
them, and uh, and I had runparts of the course too, kind of
leading up to the race becausewe were there for my boyfriend

(49:18):
and I were there for the weekbefore.
Um, because I was pretty nervousabout like getting lost because
I'm not very good at directions.
And so I like, you know, we weregoing, and this was a pretty
easy spot to uh not miss.
Like you should definitely notmiss the spot that we missed.
And I, you know, kind of washead down.
I think they were the same, headdown, and it was kind of a left
turn up to go on this likelittle single track trail.

(49:40):
We just keep running and we'reon this like fire road.
I'm like, oh, I ran thissection, you know, uh four days
ago.
And I was like, I do notremember running on a fire road.
Uh and so we kind of got like, Ithink we got just over a half
mile up and from where I thinkwe took the wrong turn.
And I asked the, I think hisname is Cole Watson, was one of
the guys.

(50:00):
Yeah.
And uh and he's a very goodrunner, but I think he's been
kind of injured.
So I would normally not be ableto run with him, but I was like,
okay, maybe coming back from hisinjury, I could run with him.
And um, so he it was great hewas there actually because he he
was like, Oh, I think we wentthe wrong way.
And I was like, What do you do?
I like freaked out because I waslike, I you don't go the wrong
way in road races.
Like, I was like, What do youmean we went the wrong way?

(50:22):
And so then I'm like, okay,well, do I cut over?
Like, do I go?
And there was this massiveravine.
So I was like, I don't eventhink I can get over there to
the trail.
And so then he's like, No, youhave to go back down, or you're
else you're gonna getdisqualified.
And I was like, What?
I was like, excuse me, I have togo back down.
Um, and so yeah, he's like, No,you've got it, like, I'm sorry,
you gotta go back down.
So thank goodness for him fortelling me that because I'm sure

(50:43):
I would have tried to bushwhack.
I almost quit.
I like got because I've likefelt so discouraged because I
was like, I'm four and a halfmiles into this.
Like, this is I can't believe Itook this far of a wrong turn.
Um, so I think I probably I wentback on Strauben, I think I lost
like eight or nine minutes, butit was about a mile that I lost
there.
So I came back down and then Iwas like, you know, I so that
from there, I feel like my wholementality kind of shifted a

(51:05):
little bit to just like gettingback in front.
Whereas like before I was like,let's see how fast I can run
this course, let's see how fastI can do this.
Um, and so you know, after that,it was kind of like, okay, I
gotta try to win now.
Now I'm and I think I was in, Icame back into the trail.
Um, I think I was in 12th or14th, I can't remember for
females.
I thought I was like fairlyaggressive asking these women,

(51:26):
but they said after that I wasvery nice.
So that's good.
Um I was worried.
I was like, I'm sorry if I likeyelled at you and was like, what
place am I in?
I did, I did ask, yeah.
But they said I asked it nicely,which I kind of doubt, but
that's nice of them to say.
Um, and so I apparently, I youknow, I asked the place and
they're like, Hey, you're, Ithink you're in uh 12th or 14th,
I can't remember.
And I was like, oh my God.
Um, and so I just I made a kindof rookie mistake then to of

(51:50):
trying to catch everybody inlike three miles.
So that was a really bad idea.
Uh I realized that now after therace and in the middle of the
race, I was like, oh my God, I'mgonna die.
Um, but yeah, I would say thatwas kind of the biggest kind of
shit show really early on.
Good, I think though, too, thatyou know, one, don't just, you
know, head down, follow people,look around and like look for
flags on your own.
And then I think two, to like,you know, not I don't need to

(52:14):
catch everybody that is in frontof me in um 25 minutes.
Uh, because you've got like Ihad like, you know, 20, 24, 26
miles left to go.
Um, and so a whole marathon.
I could have taken longer.
Uh, so I definitely sufferedfrom that, definitely a little
bit in the middle of the race.
I got pretty tired.
I was, I had caught everybody bythen, but I was pretty tired in
the middle, like, well, I put abig effort out early on.

(52:35):
But then after that, it was kindof I ran with this, I totally
forgot his name.
He was awesome.
I ran with this great guy forprobably 15 miles.
He just ran kind of right behindme the whole time.
Um, he was great because therewas a couple spots.
They'd had a windstorm the nightbefore.
So I think a lot of the flagsgot knocked out of the trees
because there was like quite afew spots that you would get to,
and I think you were just like,I mean, it'd be like a little

(52:55):
top of a little mound, andthere's like four ways to go and
there's no flag.
Um, and so the guy had, I thinkhe had his the route on his
watch, which I didn't have.
And so he was great.
He helped me know where to go.
He was like very nice because acouple times I was like dying.
Um, and so it's my little frienddying.
We didn't talk that much, but hewas my friend that I ran with
for a long time.
Um I don't remember his name.
Um, but yeah, so that washonestly the rest of the race

(53:17):
was kind of just like gettingthrough it.
It was interesting.
I could tell people like withmarathons, like you're running
kind of as fast as you can run,and you're just running that for
26 miles.
And it's almost easier in asense for some of I think it's
easier until the wheels fall offin a marathon and then it
becomes like extraordinarilyhard.
Whereas like in these 50Ks andtroll races, like you're going

(53:38):
up and down so many times, andyour the terrain is different
and the footing is different,that I feel like you're kind of
like redlining and then not, andthen redlining and then not.
So honestly, I think that wasprobably harder and I guess just
more I don't know, a little bitmore like just grueling and like
then that you had to just dig alittle bit more than like in a
marathon where you're just like,oh, I'm clicking off, you know,
540s, and this is just like whatI do.

(54:00):
Um, and so that was like cool tokind of see and like feel that.
Um, I cramped a little bit, butthat's why I was grimacing at
the end, but I only cramped thelast like mile and a half.
So I think maybe need work alittle bit on my hydration, but
it almost worked.
And honestly, if I didn't go thewrong way for a mile, it
probably would have beenperfect.
So um, yeah.
So yeah, that's kind of thewhole one.
But yeah, the end got pretty,really hard.

(54:21):
So it was more just like onefoot in front of the other, uh,
and just like kind of getting tothe finish line.

SPEAKER_01 (54:25):
Did you hit a mental wall like kind of after the
marathon mark?
Or like were you not even likelooking at the watch?
And like once it started gettingdifficult, that's when you
started feeling it.

SPEAKER_00 (54:35):
Honestly, I feel like I more hit a mental wall in
the middle.
Um, because I kind of like, youknow, I think it was it was
after I pushed really hard tocatch um all the girls in front
of me.
I feel like at that point I waslike, wow, I'm toasted, and
we're like 12 miles in.
Um, and so I was like sick.
Uh I've 18 miles to go.
So I think honestly, from thatkind of like 12 to 14 mile mark

(54:56):
all the way to like 23, I wouldsay, that was like a mental
hurdle for me.
It was more just like it wasweird because I was like, you're
pushing, but you're also kind ofalone.
Like I had that one guy that Iended up finding.
Um, but it was hard becausethere wasn't like a big group
around you either.
It's more like you have tomentally push yourself, which is
which is cool, but also likepretty hard to do when you're
feeling kind of a little bitdemoralized because you're like,

(55:17):
oh, I'm tired.
Um, and then I think once I gotto 23 or 24, there was a couple
aid stations along the way too,where I was gonna see my dad.
I do I think I saw my dad at Ithink 24 or 25, and I knew I was
gonna see him there.
And so I was like, just kind oflike let me get to there, and
then I'll just like run it in,you know, I'll I'll make it in
from there.
And he was like, Yeah, youlooked you looked really tired

(55:38):
of that one.
And I was like, Yeah, I was.
Uh but I made it.

SPEAKER_01 (55:42):
What did you what did you do for nutrition?
And like, did you practice likedid you I guess I don't know,
because I feel like marathonnutrition is it's a different
game, like trying to get allthat figured out versus like
something in an ultra marathon.
What what did you dodifferently, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 (55:58):
Yeah.
I think with the marathon, it'slike you can, you know, miss a
little bit more in a marathon.
You know, you want to get itkind of dialed, and you usually
get, you know, every 5k you geta bottle.
Like it's pretty, as an eliterunner, you you know, it's
pretty dialed for you.
Um, but I also think there's alittle more room because you're
out there for, you know, two anda half hours so or under.
And so there's a little moreroom to kind of miss a couple

(56:18):
things because it's not, it'slong, but it's not like horribly
long.
Um, whereas like I think inthese like you know, 50Ks and
like obviously anything above a50K, um, you're out there for
like a long, way longer thanthat.
Um, and so I think youdefinitely need to get, you
know, get in enough and notbonk.
So I did practice.
I practice a lot and just a lotof my training runs and like um

(56:39):
I did I what I use on that, Iused mostly um SIS.
I like the 2D Fruity um flavor,Science and Sport, best one.
Uh and then I used some, what Ithink in my bottles I had, oh, I
used Scratch Superfuel in acouple of my bottles.
So I think I just did superfuelfor the first um couple bottles
um with a gel.
And then for my last one, I justdid a little bit of like

(57:00):
electrolytes with like three orfour gels because they're pretty
easy for me to take down.
I definitely think I need towork a little bit on getting a
little bit more liquid in.
I was trying to get in about, Ithink I have five, I can't
remember what they are.
Um, but I was getting in abottle an hour, um, which I
think was okay, but I think Icould do a little bit more.
Um, so yeah, so that's it.
It worked decently.
I got everything in that Ineeded to get in.

(57:21):
I think I, although I missedlike two gels, and I don't
remember when I missed those.
Probably the end when I wasblacking out.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (57:28):
How did you I it's a bit higher up in elevation than
Bozeman too.
How did you deal with thealtitude?

SPEAKER_00 (57:34):
Yeah, honestly, I was like, you know, I've always
done pretty well altitude, whichis good.
You know, they're just like Idon't know why.
I mean, I was where I grew up inthe flatheads like 3,000 feet
elevation, so it's not superhigh.
Um, I've now been at like closeto 5,000 feet, you know, since
college, and then now for, youknow, maybe 10 years now.
So um I think, and but I'vealways noticed even in college,

(57:54):
we would go up to long runs at9,000 feet, and I usually would
do pretty well.
Um, so probably just geneticsthat I lucked out with that.
Um, but I think that yeah, I dookay with that.
I was nervous about that though,because I think the whole race
is like pretty much between like66 to 8,000 feet um of
elevation, which is pretty high.
Um, and I noticed it.
You can definitely like, youknow, the pushing it, you know,

(58:15):
redlining it was definitelyharder.
And then you could just tellwith like your lungs and your
breathing, you're like, yeah,I'm I'm getting tired a lot
faster and at a little bitslower pace than I would, you
know, at 5,000 feet in Bozeman.
Um, so I think just like goingto that and being a little bit
cautious there with that one waswas good and not, you know,
hammering.
I was going fairly hard thefirst like four or so before I
got lost, but I think that youknow, I was also holding back a

(58:38):
little bit, just like knowingthat I was high up elevation.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:42):
I guess that's another good question, too, is
like knowing the pacing for a50k.
Because it's like, all right, doI just fit threshold the whole
time?
Or like what am I, you know, itit's it's kind of hard to nail
because it and because if you gotoo hard, as you know, like it's
it doesn't usually end well.
It's preoplying.

SPEAKER_00 (59:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (59:01):
So it's like, how did you have an idea of like
what to pace that at?
Or just like whatever, you know,especially being your first
time.

SPEAKER_00 (59:08):
Yeah, I don't I honestly think like doing, I
did, you know, that don't pensme in Helena, and then I did
actually a trail race that waslike 24 miles just in Bozeman.
It's on the Bangdale mountainrange in July.
Um, it was just like a reallysmall one that's just you know
in local people here.
And so I think like I've triedjust practicing just going off
of like feel in those, and I dowear my heart rate monitor on

(59:30):
it.
I don't check it super often,which maybe I should more.
I definitely think there's a lotfor me to learn on like the
pacing and everything.
Like the marathons, so simple.
You like train for a certainpace and then you run that pace,
and then you like look at yourwatch and you're like perfect,
right on.
Um, but like yeah, the 50Ks,it's like the pace is like not
doesn't totally matter.
It's more like the effort andprobably like your heart rate um
on a lot of that stuff.

(59:50):
But I have noticed in both thoseraces and even Kodiak, my heart
rate stayed really, reallysimilar the whole time, even on
the ups and the downs.
Like, obviously, it's a littlebit higher on the ups, but I was
able.
Able to keep it pretty good onthe down too.
Um, and I don't really I thinkI've just run so much threshold
that it was probably just rightaround my low threshold, like
zone three.
Um, so I don't know, maybe I'mjust know how to do that.

(01:00:11):
Maybe my body just kind of fallsinto that.
Um, but yeah, I was kind ofaround that.
But I need to probably work onit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:16):
It just kind of knows what to do.
That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:18):
Yeah, yeah, it just knows what to do.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:20):
Yeah, yeah.
It's just like, all right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:22):
Yeah, I think it does.
I didn't try, I don't know, Ijust did it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:26):
Do you in like I guess it's kind of different?
Like, I mean everybody's alittle bit different, but in
training, are you like marriedto heart rate at all?
Or is it more so, like you said,just like more so married to
pacing?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:36):
I have always been more, you know, I like you know,
mileage and pacing, um, which isprobably something I'll have to
adjust as I get more into thetrail world.
I do wear like a heart ratemonitor, not every day, like on
my easy days, I usually forget,but I try to wear it like every
time I have a workout or longrun.
Um, and I like to go back andlook at it after, or you know,
in a workout, if there's a timewhen I'm like, oh my gosh, like
I am like dying right now, I'lllook at my heart rate and I can

(01:00:59):
be like, oh hey, like slow down.
You're like really going intoupper thresholds, which is not
necessary right now.
Um, and so that's been like it'sjust like a more of a helpful
tool for me to look at.
Um and like, but I do like, youknow, assigning.
Obviously, you can't do this onthe trails, but like if I do a
road workout or track, I likehaving paces.
Um, but I think I'll have tolearn a little bit more for sure
how to look at the heart rate alittle bit more and go off more

(01:01:21):
efforts, you know, and timeversus you know, paces and
miles.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:25):
Interesting.
All right, I got I got twoquestions for you, uh especially
going into next year.
One, do you know much about theGolden Trail series?
Because I would love to see yourace series and all.
Like I and I and I hope becauselike I know people that are
decision makers there do listento this sometimes.
Like, I would love to see you goover and like do series and all,
because that's like obviouslyit's a marathon distance or a

(01:01:47):
little bit less than a marathondistance, and uh some of the
best marathoners in the worldand just road athletes in the
world go and race it.
So it's kind of thatintersection of both.
But is that something you'dyou'd you'd go do?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:59):
I would love to.
I it's on my radar for surebecause I think it's like it's
kind of up my alley.
It's like straight up for awhile, which I love for some
reason.
Um, and then I also and thenit's like seems just like more
runnable of a course.
Obviously, I think the lastlittle descent is a little bit
more technical.
Um, but it's definitely on myradar.
The only thing it's I think it'sthree weeks before OCC, like

(01:02:20):
exactly 20 days.
Um and so I'm trying to getinput because you know I have
been very excited about thatone.
That was definitely one I wrotedown really early on, like right
after Kodiak.
Um, and so I just don't know,like, is that dumb to do those?
You know, I might, you know, Imight pick one or save one for
like next year, or I'll try todo both.
Who knows?
Um so trying to kind of likekind of reach out to people and

(01:02:40):
see, like, you know, what is thesmartest thing to do here?
I've also never really traveledoverseas for a race, so I also
have to figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:46):
So yeah, yeah.
All right.
On on actually on that topic forASICs, uh, you probably can't
answer this.
Maybe you could just give a winkor like a yes or a no.
Like, is there more, like, arewe gonna do you have an idea if
we're gonna see more ASICs USathletes?
Like, is that is that apossibility in the future?

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:04):
I actually don't know on that.
I'm not just saying that.
I don't, I'm, I'm assumingprobably, yes.
Um, I'm just like, you know, Ifeel like they're putting a lot
of money and time into, youknow, their trail shoes and
their trail gear and everything,and it's good.
And, you know, I think they'vegot a great European team.
And so I think I coulddefinitely see them putting, you
know, putting getting someathletes on that trail roster

(01:03:25):
for the US.
I think I think it's first yearcoming.
I don't know exactly when, but Ithink it definitely is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:29):
Okay.
No, I appreciate that.
Second call piggy to piggybackoff that, I guess like because I
mean, I know last year they did.
I know they they make likehousing and stuff like that
available for UTMB athletes andathletes that go over there,
which is pretty cool.
That'll be kind of like I guessnew for you, which would be a
lot of fun.

unknown (01:03:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:47):
Yeah.
I think I I didn't really, Ithink I kind of briefly talked
to them about that stuff, but Iwant to talk to them more
because they said they had likea house that they had, which I
was like, ooh, cool.
Um, and so that will be yeah,that would be great.
I know my parents might bethere, so who knows where I'm
staying.
Um, but that I was like, that'samazing that they kind of have
that for their athletes, and itwould be great.
I would love to meet all theEuropean A6 athletes and uh, you

(01:04:08):
know, pick their pick theirbrains.
How do I trail run?
That'd be great.

unknown (01:04:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:13):
That's so cool.
Um, one more question.
I'm gonna could this one's uhalso gonna be out of left field,
just completely different as westart to wind down.
Have you ever heard of theCirque series?
Because I'd also love to see youdo a Cirque series race next
year.
Like Yes.
There's one not far from you inMontana, like down in Targi.
It's not that far.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:29):
Yes.
I have heard of Cirque series.
I honestly think they're I don'tknow how much they're in my uh I
I feel like they're like maybe Icould do good.
I think I could do good on theup.
I think I would look really,really bad on the down.
Um and so I think it could belike a very good like training
thing.
And I definitely almost, youknow, I did I talked to I think
one of the guys who does is thehead of the Cirque series.

(01:04:52):
And so I'd like to maybe do oneor two next year just to like, I
think great training, you know,it'd make me run fast on stuff
I'm not super comfortablerunning fast on downhill, um,
which I think would be greattraining.
I think that would be good.
It's definitely seems like alittle bit, I definitely feel
like I like a little bit longerstuff than that.
Um, or I guess shorter, just aVK, just straight up and then
end at the top.

(01:05:12):
Um, and so I like that.
But yeah, I think honestly theGolden Trail series is, you
know, both those are prettyintriguing things.
And I think um, you know, Ithink I'll probably do like
dabble in in some of them.
I don't know if I do like thewhole golden trail series or
like all circ series, but it'dbe fun to like, you know, pick
some races to put into theschedule um for training and
just like you know, see see howthose go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:33):
So cool.
Well, Kenna, thank you so muchfor coming on the pod.
This is a great conversation.
I'm so happy I caught you kindof like at the beginning of your
trail, like uh of your trailcareer, which is awesome.
Um yeah, I can't wait to I hopeI can't want to have another
conversation with you after nextseason after you win all these
amazing accolades and we get weget to hear all about it.
So I'm excited.

(01:05:54):
Thank you so much, I appreciateit.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:55):
Yeah, thank you.
It's been so great.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:57):
Yeah, thanks.
Awesome, we're done recording.
Cool.
Thank you so much.
That was awesome.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
Uh want to thank McKenna so muchfor coming on the show.
Uh super appreciative.
I'm such a big fan, and uh, it'sgonna be really fun to follow
her career over the next fewyears as it continues to
blossom.
Uh I, for one, genuinely thinkthat she has all the tools to

(01:06:20):
become one of the besttrailrunners on the planet
Earth, which is pretty cool.
Uh so we're gonna see,especially if she takes on races
like OCC and Broken Arrow andothers next year.
Um, it's gonna be fun to watchher become an absolute household
name.
So the best way you couldsupport her is to give her a
follow on Instagram.
You could find her at McKennaunderscore Morley.
It's gonna be linked in the shownotes.

(01:06:41):
But if you're one of thosepeople that likes spelling, uh
it's M-A-K-E-N-A underscoreMorley.
That's M-O-R-L-E-Y.
Give her a follow.
Let her know what you guysthought about the episode.
I'm sure she'd love to hear fromyou.
Um guys, the best way you couldsupport the podcast if you're
enjoying these episodes and someof the changes we've been making
lately, is to give us afive-star rating and review on
Apple, Spotify, YouTube, orwherever you consume your

(01:07:02):
podcasts.
And you can also support us bysupporting our brand partner,
Ultimate Direction.
If you hop onultimatedirection.com right now,
if you uh or thinking of a lovedone or yourself or in the market
for uh some new apparel or vest,any type of hydration solution,
if you use code Steepstuff Pod,that's one word Steep Stuff Pod,
it's gonna get you 25% off yourcart.

(01:07:23):
Uh so yeah, hop on UltimateDirection, lots of new vests.
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