#142 - Robin Vieira Brower - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James L'Oriello.
And today I'm so excited tobring you guys an episode with
Robin Vieira Brower, the PacificNorthwest Native, was kind
enough to come on the pod andtalk all things skyrunning.
Robin is one of the fewAmericans and definitely one of
the few American women right nowcompeting on the World

(00:20):
Skyrunning series.
And she was kind enough to comeon and give us her time and talk
all things skyrunning.
We got into it all.
We talked about her season whereshe just wrapped up her season
with a top 10 finish at theMourne Skyline Skyrace in
Ireland.
She also raced over in Austriaas well and just kind of had a
stack season and threw down atsome uh at a Cirque Series race

(00:42):
uh as well at Cirque SeriesCrystal.
Um we talked all aboutskyrunning, how it can get in
the United States, uh what itneeds to get more awareness in
the US, talking about thecourses, the types of courses,
um, the vertical relief.
Uh we talked about the ISF, theWorld Skyrunning Series, um,
what it's like as an Americangoing over there to race and
just racing abroad for her firstseason.

(01:04):
So that was a bunch of fun.
Um, really want to thank her forcoming on, and uh hope you guys
enjoy this one.
I'm a big fan of Robin's, and uhyeah, I'm very excited for where
her future is gonna take her inthe sport.
Interesting human.
Uh, she's also a creative, andyou guys will see that come
through when you follow her onsocial media.
Um, very, very talented on thecreative side as well, and that

(01:25):
comes through for herstorytelling ability as an
athlete.
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoyed the spawn.
Robin Viera Brouwer.

(02:31):
Ladies and gentlemen, sweetsweet.
Robin Viera Brower, welcome tothe Steep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going?

SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
Going well, yeah.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 (02:45):
Yeah, stoked to finally have a conversation.
I feel like this is I I feellike it's uh it's been hard to
put this one together, so I'mglad we were finally able to do
it.
I feel like you're you're likethe only American woman in
Skyrunning right now, and wewere definitely due to have a
conversation.
So happy to happy to do thisone.

SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Yeah, happy to be here and and dig into all the
things.
There's there's a lot to talkabout, and I'm um excited to see
the sport grow globally, but forsure in North America.

SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
We'll get it, we'll definitelyget into it.
Before we get started though, II'd love to hear more on your
background.
Like, what's the give me likethe five-minute elevator pitch
on where you grew up, how yougot into sport, and kind of your
relationship with sport.

SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Yeah, let's see.
Five minute elevator pitch.
So I I will say, I'll start bysaying I have a very, I guess,
non-traditional uh entrance intothe running world.
Um, but but I do my background,like many others, I played team
sports.
I grew up playing soccer, um,played soccer in college at
University of Peach Sound, andhad a lot of success with soccer

(03:52):
my whole life.
That was was my whole life.
Um and fell in love with sportat an early age.
At the same time, I grew up inSeattle.
So my parents introduced me tothe outdoors pretty early on.
So I skied and um yeah, grew upskiing and grew up pretty close
to the mountains, but not quitein the mountains.
I was, I guess, a city girl, um,but didn't realize it at the

(04:15):
time.
And so um my relationship withrunning, particularly trail
running in the mountains, didn'treally come to fruition until
after I graduated from collegeand stopped playing soccer.
I actually hated running upuntil um the point where I
didn't really have anywhere elseto turn and um fell in love with

(04:38):
trail running uh as a means tojust be outside and closer to
nature.
And I remember seeing people,you know, on trails with their
super heavy like hiking gear.
And it seemed nice to be reallyclose to the mountains, but I
was always looking for a moreefficient way to be in them and
to get up high.
And um once I learned, you know,that you can do that with

(05:01):
certain types of trail running,I fell in love with it and um
started competing in some localraces and was podiuming and you
know, had a realization that Imight have something here, but I
I knew that I was really strongand interested in the technical
side of trail running and Ididn't quite know, I didn't know

(05:22):
about skyrunning, I didn't knowwhat that would look like yet.
So I kind of I turned to um, youknow, people that I had heard
about, like Emily Forsberg, andwas kind of enchanted by that
way of accessing steep terrainin the mountains.
And so eventually um it took awhile to get there, but I I

(05:43):
found skyrunning and uh a coupleyears ago decided that that was
what I wanted to pursue next.
I I took some time off runningfor a variety of reasons and
came back like headfirst doveinto skyrunning, um, met my
coach and have been traininglike solely focused on
skyrunning for the past coupleyears ever since.

(06:04):
So it's been a journey to gethere and um like a pretty
unconventional one, I think.
So uh I'm very grateful for allthe exposure and opportunities
that have come my way.

SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
So cool.
Now I and I love yourbackground, they especially the
non-traditional aspect of it.
I come from a soccer backgroundmyself, so I always I've got a
yeah, I definitely always feelfor the folks that didn't come
from like track and field orwere steeplers.
And what what position did youplay uh in soccer?

SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
I played forward, like well, I played forward and
center mid, but forward was kindof my my my sweet spot.

SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
Um I'm not sorry, I still haven't had a defender on
the podcast, and I'm like kindof upset.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
I think I you know, I always admired defenders
because they were I I've alwaysbeen on the small side, and so
that was my like challenge withsoccer.
Um, so I I kind of envied thedefenders because they were
always able to like muscle theirway through things, but I was
always the speedy one, like, youknow, doing the long runs and
sprints and whatnot.

(07:08):
But that was growing up one ofmy biggest challenges with
soccer, and I ran into it allthe time.
And I had tons of coaches umtell me that I wasn't gonna go
anywhere with soccer unless Ilike put some mass on.
So I spent a lot of time in thegym at an early age trying to
develop that.
And that's also like when Ifinally found trail running, I

(07:30):
felt so at home in my like bodyand and capabilities there.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
Interesting.
You see, like I always had theissue was for me, I had the
speed, and I feel like a lot ofathletes do it's the skill.
And I never like wanted to,especially like like young in
high school and and below that,like I just never wanted to take
the time to like put emphasis onlike learn more of the ball
handling skills and stuff likethat.
It was more so let me just usemy speed to compensate for all

(07:57):
those shortcomings.
And yeah, that's why I didn'thave much of a career in soccer
out like in college.
But yeah, it was it was a it's afun sport though.
Team sports are different, it'sinteresting like that dichotomy
and crossover, um, you know,coming from a team sport than
going to more of a solo sportand trail running where it's
kind of all about us, but at thesame time, we also try to make

(08:18):
it about community.
So it's kind of weird, right?

SPEAKER_00 (08:21):
Yeah, it is.
It's it it is weird.
And I I'm still I think becauseI have such a, you know, that
team sport background, I'm stilltrying to figure out how to how
how to have come from that andgo into this because there is
the the the backbone of of trailrunning, no matter what type of
trail running is community,right?

(08:41):
Like we wouldn't be here withoutthat side of things.
So um it's an interestingcrossover for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (08:47):
Yeah.
All right.
So let's dive headfirst intoskyrunning.
I gotta ask you, like, what wasthere any like one thing that
stood out to you, like where yousaw, I don't know, maybe KJ or
Emily, somebody running on thisridge, and they were like, that
was inspiring.
Like, what was like how did youexactly find it?
I think that's that's more ofthe story, just because it's
it's such a niche thing,especially in the in in the

(09:10):
United States.

SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
Yeah, totally.
I don't know if there was aparticular like moment where
that that stands out in my mind,but I I know that I I'm I'm I
could be such a romantic when itcomes to just, I don't know, my
relationship with being in themountains, just the feeling of

(09:31):
being up up high and out there.
And so I think I I probably sawor read something from Emily and
felt, you know, like herconnection with the mountains is
probably what the root of all ofit stemmed from.
And I I fell in love with theability to be that connected to

(09:57):
the mountains, um, and thereforelearned, oh, she, you know, I
mean, she has a lot of otherthings aside from skyrunning,
but she like that skyrunning.
So I I made this connectionearly on that that ability to be
far in and high up in themountains, um just created this

(10:20):
like level of connection to themthat was just very enticing to
me.
That coupled with the enduranceside, obviously, that's
necessary to do skyrunning racesand run that type of terrain.
Um, I was like, oh, it hit me.
I was like, okay, this, I don'tknow how, I don't know when.

(10:42):
I don't even really know whyyet, but at some point I need to
like, I need to pursue this andfigure out that side of things.
But it's funny because at thattime in my life, I was pretty
far away from getting close tothat.
So it felt pretty unachievable.
I just kind of tucked in my backpocket.

SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
The economics of it are hard because all of
everything it's it's not inAmerica, let's put it that way.
Hopefully soon it will be.
Um, but you have to travelinternationally for pretty much
every race.
Um, if you were to do somethinglike the Skyrunner World Series,
it's a lot of them are hard toget to.
It's not an easy thing.
So I'm just curious because Ifind it really interesting.

(11:27):
I find it really cool that likethat didn't deter you.
You're like, I'm I'm still gonnado this.
I'm gonna and we'll talk aboutyour season this year and some
of the races that you did.
Um, but was that a deterrent atall?
Or because it seems like a lotof American trail runners, seems
like I mean, it's not even seemslike it's definitely the golden
trail series seems to steal allthe American talent.
And rightfully so, I get it.

(11:47):
I mean, obviously they havegreat marketing, they have uh
rate more races in the states,uh, usually one to two a year
every year.
Um what was it about uh for youthat you're like this is not
gonna be a barrier for me?
I'm gonna go pursue this.

SPEAKER_00 (12:02):
That's a good question.
I think, gosh, I mean, I mean,I'll be the first to recognize
like it is a huge privilege tobe able to travel and compete
for anything.
So that said, um there's a lotof barriers in place, and a big
one is financial, um, anotherone is time.

(12:25):
There's a number of other, youknow, things that make it
difficult.
But for me, um, I guess I justdidn't really take no for an
answer.
I didn't know when it was gonnahappen.
And I early on I bought um EmilyForsberg's Sky Running book,
like before I even knew exactlywhat Skyrunning was.

(12:47):
And I just kept it on mybookshelf and I just kept
looking back at it every now andthen.
And, you know, like one day Idon't know how, I don't know
when.
I didn't even know, I guess atthe time if it was going to be
me that was going to be able totackle these goals, or if, you
know, maybe some way, shape, orform I could inspire future
generations to do that, tofigure out how to do that.

(13:08):
But um I I guess I like I grewup not really taking no for an
answer with a lot of differentthings.
And so that determination cameinto play.
That's one side of it.
There's there are a number ofother things, but I'll just name
two of them in particular.
Um, my husband is so supportiveof me, and he comes from a

(13:33):
travel family.
So his dad is a pilot or was apilot, and his mom is a flight
attendant.
So um he is just pretty wellversed in travel, the nuances
there.
So that's incredibly helpful umfor me.
And uh my coach is the otherperson who kind of came into my

(13:53):
life very unexpectedly and hasled to, I mean, I really
wouldn't be able to do what I dowithout like either of them.

SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
I I read that you had actually met your coach in
South Africa at a Hokush uh uhHokushoe.
Is that yeah?
Is that talk about that and howthat kind of evolved into
because I I feel like forskyrunning, it's such a
particular thing.
Obviously, fitness is fitness,but there's a lot of
specificity, especially whenyou're getting ready for certain
races that you need to do.

(14:22):
So it's it's almost its owndifferent thing.
So maybe talk about one, yourpreparation for races like this
with your coach, and also two,how that relationship evolved.

SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
Yeah.
So I was in, let's see, it wasearly 2024.
I was in South Africa for a Hokashoot, and um, it was a huge,
you know, one of those like big,big production shoots where
there were tons of people andbig budget.
And they had hired Christian,Christian Grayling, my coach, to

(14:58):
be on set as a movementcoordinator.
Basically, they needed someoneto help the athletes, you know,
perform the right movements forthe right shots kind of thing.
Um sometimes that's necessary,and other times, I mean it
becomes necessary when there'sbudget for it.
But so Christian was on set andwe spent a lot of time together

(15:22):
during that shoot.
Um, and we just got to talking,you know, about his background,
my background, what my goalsare.
Um, and it came, he's aprofessional runner himself and
has won and raced a lot ofultras and sky races.
Um, him and his wife have acoaching business and they're
both professional athletes andreally strong at what they do.

(15:44):
And um, I don't know, we justlike hit it off pretty quickly.
And I shared just some some likelock and goals with him, and he
he started looking more closelyat how I was running and noticed
my technical skills on that typeof terrain and brought up, you

(16:04):
know, like, have you everconsidered racing sky races?
And it was kind of out of theblue.
And I was like, now that youmention it, I have, but I have
not done it yet simply because Ididn't even know where to start.
It's it's you know, you can lookat the European field and the
female athletes over therecompeting, and it's easy to, you

(16:27):
know, dream, I think, but notreally seeing many women in the
US going after it.
I didn't know where to start.
So he was the one who brought itup.
And Tyler, uh, my husband wasthe one who was like, you
should, you should like, he waslike nudging me.
You should, you should see wherethat where that can go.
So it took a couple otherpeople, like believing in me, to

(16:51):
really um go out out on thatlimb.
And eventually, I mean, it itwas not that difficult, I guess,
at the end of the day for me tojust see like the opportunities
here wide open in front of me.
I just have to take it.
So um from there on forward, Iwas like 150% in.
And I think that was the is theonly way that I've been able to,

(17:16):
I guess I'll call it likecatching up, sort of to where I
need to be from a fitnessperspective, um, and just like
general learning perspective ofthe whole sky running scene.
And then on top of that, ofcourse, the trail scene, because
there's a lot going on, and I'velearned you you need to be like
acutely aware, especially ifyou're you know not on a team,

(17:39):
um, to know what to do and whento do and how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
So yeah, interesting.
Yeah, interesting.
Um, there's a lot to unpackthere.
One thing I I might want to dois shift gears a little bit.
I didn't want to go too muchback in time, but I think it's
so integral and really importantfor your story and for the
listeners to understand like whoyou are as the creative as well
as who you are as the athlete.
Because I feel like you as thecreative plays a huge role as uh

(18:07):
in tandem with you as theathlete.
Um, maybe talk about what you doprofessionally as well, kind of
the studio you run.
Um just because I don't know.
One of the things that thatreally struck me about you and
why I think you'll go really farin this sport, um, in addition
to athletics, you're a very goodstoryteller.
You're very good at being ableto, your stuff is aesthetically

(18:27):
pleasing when it comes to yoursocial media, your website,
things like that.
You can convey your story verywell.
Um so yeah, maybe go back intime, talk about uh what you do
as far as running a creativestudio.

SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
Yeah.
Um so it's like a whole other Isometimes I feel like I live two
separate lives.
But at the end of the day,they're very connected.
So um it's it's interestingbecause I get asked a lot like
how I do what I do, because Ithink some people only see the
athletic side and then somepeople only see the creative

(19:02):
side.
But at the end of the day, yeah,they're they're hyper connected.
So my husband and I ownAmpersand Studios, which is a
creative strategy agency.
Um we do films, um, all sorts ofcreative assets, marketing
campaigns, um, brand strategies,brand rebuilds, stuff like that.

(19:27):
And lately we're focused mostlyon like narrative storytelling.
Cause at the end of the day,that's what we're both super
passionate about is honestlytelling other people's stories
who wouldn't otherwise be told.
So amplifying that.
Um, but I got into it again,non-conventionally.
Uh I started out like I have anundergraduate degree in
neuroscience and kinesiology, sonot necessarily related to

(19:50):
running a creative studio, butfrom there I realized I didn't
want to be, you know, in aclinic or a lab all the time.
Um, and so I pivoted andactually went and got um my
master's in sports productmanagement from the University
of Oregon in Portland.
And so that led me to a careerin the outdoor industry.
Um and the entire time, so II've I've bounced around like

(20:16):
I've worked for some some knownoutdoor brands.
Um, but the entire time I knewthat at some point in time I
wanted to open my M studiobecause I wanted to work for
myself and I wanted to have thatcreative freedom.
And so post-pandemic, um, I wasworking for an agency and got

(20:38):
laid off because of the economyat the time.
And my husband and I were like,okay, now's now's the time as
ever.
Kind of similar situation tojust saying yes and jumping into
sky running.
Um, we don't know how this isgonna go, but let's let's try
it.
And so between the two of us, wehave built up like enough, you
know, our networks are prettybig in that space.

(20:58):
And so we jumped into ourcreative studio not knowing what
the heck we were doing, and itsort of took off, which has been
amazing, a roller coaster andhonestly very, very difficult
but doable in also being afull-time athlete.
Um the like there are some days,you know, we all know life is

(21:24):
very glamorized on social media.
And yes, I can tell a good storyand you know make things look
pretty online and whatnot, butthey're doing both is an
absolute grind, and it's alsoamazing.
So there's a lot of risk reward,um a lot of challenges and

(21:46):
growth that being a creative andlike a business owner has
provided.
Um, I mean, there are days wherewe're like we were when I'm just
thinking back to last June, whenwe were in Austria for um one of
my races, like leading daysleading up to the race, things
went wrong with the client.

(22:06):
And I was on calls like, youknow, during the time of the
pre-race routine where prettymuch all the other athletes were
getting in the right headspace,you know, stretching, form
rolling, doing the things theyneeded to do for their body.
And I was managing this otherthing.
So the balance there is tricky.

unknown (22:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (22:28):
No, I appreciate you painting that picture.
And the reason I I sorry, thereason I wanted to bring it in
is just because, like, as wecontinue to tell your story, I
think and when the audience getsto see your Instagram and or
sees you know your website, itmakes a lot of sense.
Like your ability to continueto, you know, storytelling,
painting this, painting thesepictures.
Um, I don't know.
Like I said, it makes a lot ofsense when it comes into uh

(22:50):
storytelling aspect.
So I appreciate that.
Um how do you like running abusiness with the athlete
aspect, like trying to balanceboth?
Like I I've always, especiallyas a podcast host, like the
eventual goal of this, hopefullyin the the near future, is to be
my own boss and not have to livethat corporate America life.
Like, how do you how do youenjoy that while also training

(23:11):
at a high level?

SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Um it's hard.
I mean, I'm not gonna lie, it'shard, but I um the risk, the
reward is big.
And it it also, I mean, we livein a world in which you're kind
of as an athlete, and I've heardyou talk about this, you know,
on your podcast here with otherum other folks, but being an

(23:37):
athlete requires pumping outcontent.
And so being able to um do that,I guess, with the tools that we
have is is helpful.
Um but sometimes there's no timefor it because we're so busy
doing that for other otherclients.
Um but I think it's like I said,the rewards are big, but the key

(24:04):
component to all of it isdiscipline and like balancing my
time, which that's been thecase.
I think I'm honestly, I thinkI'm the best version of myself
for pretty much all things, butdefinitely being an athlete when
I have um another outlet outsideof being an athlete that gives

(24:25):
me another place to focus myenergy on or gives me a reason
to not do too much, likevolume-wise for training.
Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (24:35):
See, I I think you nailed something very important
there.
It's the I think it's the thethe training aspect, but if a
race goes wrong or somethingperformance-wise isn't that
isn't where you want it to be,you also have this other thing
that constantly is sitting inthe back of your mind that
you're pursuing at a at a levelof excellence as well in your
business.
So whereas like it's almostdifferent, whereas like if

(24:57):
you're working like a normaljob, it's just it's it's not the
same.
When it's your own baby and it'syour own thing, like there's a
different level of of, I feellike for me at least, enthusiasm
um just kind of draws adichotomy.
And it's fun to be working onmultiple things and not just
drawing um maybe a sense ofworth from just uh athletics,

(25:18):
you know?

SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
Yeah.
It's complicated because it'sit's easy to get like it's
messy, I guess is my point.
Um because so many of us who arein this sport and world, like we
are, it's easy to be aperfectionist, I guess, or like
type A personality, which Idefinitely definitely have

(25:40):
traits of that.
But I think I think if anything,owning owning my own business
and doing this at the same timehas taught me you can really
only have success if you let goof that vision of perfection,
whatever that picture looks likefor you, partially, but way
easier said than done.

SPEAKER_02 (25:59):
That's true.
You have like a I and I gottaask you this on top of that.
Like you have a relatively likesizable following on social
media.
Like, does that do you do youpay attention to to that, or is
it more for you like morefocused on athletics?
Like, how do you balance both ofthose?
Like, are you concerned aboutmetrics and because I know

(26:19):
you've done you do brand stuffas well, trying to balance those
things?
Like, I I have this weird thingwhere I kind of hate Instagram,
where like sometimes I'll betoo, especially for the podcast,
like I'll get too in the weedsof worrying about like, oh, this
post isn't doing well, or thisisn't getting as much reach as
it should, or I should just beworrying about my art, right?
Which is the conversation I'mhaving with you right now.

(26:41):
Um or or my own athletics, whichthat's a different conversation.
Um yeah, what what how do youlike reconcile that part?

SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Yeah.
Um yeah, it's I mean, I alsohate Instagram sometimes.
I think we all kind of do.
Like it's it's turned into thisum this necessary, really
wonderful community connectiontouch point, in addition to a

(27:13):
place to be creative and anoutlet, but also kind of a
mandatory like requirement ifyou're gonna um be an athlete
these days.
I mean, people will disagreewith me on that, and I will
probably disagree with myselfsometimes too on that.
But I for me personally, I'vealways turned to it as a as an

(27:36):
outlet.
And I we all get stuck in like,oh, you know, follow or count
and wanting to wanting to growand wanting to um have influence
or come across a certain way orwhatever.
Um so like if you go deep in myin my feed, you'll find probably

(27:57):
like different versions of mefrom back then, because we all
change too.
I mean, I don't know.
I think at the end of the day,it's an outlet for me, and it's
also a means to like processthings I'm going through that
other people are probably goingthrough too, or things people
are curious about that I'mhaven't quite nailed, but I'm
like working on sort of.
Um so yeah, I'm just keeping itin mind and it's fun for me.

(28:23):
I guess the minute, the minuteit feels like a drag or it's not
fun, I kind of go distant fromit for a little bit, but I'm
kind of keeping myself in checkon that.

SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Interesting.
Yeah, no, I I and I appreciatethe candid answer because I feel
like it's something we all asathletes all deal with.
I mean, I'm one of those peoplethat like I I I've I don't know,
on the podcast I've been likevery outspoken one way or
another.
And I very much believe in neverbeing married to an idea.
I used to like hate it, and thenyou realize the more I pay

(28:54):
attention to alternative, Ishouldn't say alternative, but
like other sports.
Climbing's a great example.
Most climbers have like crazysocial media followings.
And yeah, if you want to be areally well-known climber, yeah,
you have to be popular.
And uh I I wonder if like thatis part of the direction with
our sport as well, whereperformance is obviously one of

(29:16):
the most important factors, ifnot the most.
But also if you want to conveyyour story and get who you are
out into the world, I thinksocial media is just a massive
component of that and like aunnecessary evil, if you will.
So it's it's it's this weird umtightrope.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
I think that's yeah, it's a tightrope.
Yeah, that's a good way to putit.
Um so I'm yeah, I mean, I thinktoo, we're all it's it's easy to
fall into the comparison game onsocial media for a variety of
things.
And so I think um just keepingthat in mind as athletes is

(29:54):
important because there's peopleout there that are like way
faster than me that aren't.
active on social media and thenthere's people that are like I'm
faster than that are way moreactive on social media.
I mean I don't know it's justit's its own beast and we're all
kind of trying to I'm aware thatwe're all trying to figure it
out.
No one has fully mastered it.

SPEAKER_02 (30:15):
That's true.
That's true.
All right.
Now now we gotta we're goingback to skyroding.
I I gotta I gotta get us backinto that.
Um okay so this past summer youtraveled a bunch uh obviously to
Ireland you just for justrecently you know relatively
recently I can't believe we'realready in December now but um
relatively recently raced atMourne Skyline as well as your
Austrian race can you pronouncethe the Hotch oh yeah I mean

(30:40):
don't take this word for wordbut Hotchkonig okay all right
that's better than I would havedone okay okay yeah that's what
I heard when I was there fromother people now the beautiful
thing about skyrunning isthere's a dense calendar there's
there's races literally like theseason is so uh like massive if
you will um what made you I knowyou had like a wider season as

(31:02):
well I know obviously um whatwas it Minotaur was canceled and
there was a few on your calendarthat you didn't get to um but
what made you select thiscurrent like this roster of
races that you did the specificuh skyrunning ones um I was a
little naive if I'm beingcompletely honest I would do it
um somewhat differently nextyear and plan to but also sort

(31:25):
of similar so I think skyrunningis such a interesting like every
course is so different you're atthe mercy of so many different
things and you don't havecontrol of so many different
things.

SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
So I chose the races I chose last year um based on
the competitive pool that I knewor suspected would be racing
there.
Um places I selfishly wanted tovisit and experience um because
that's another part ofskyrunning is it's so immersed

(32:02):
in the the you learn so muchabout the culture there um when
you go to these races.
And um on top of that I travellike where you know these some
some places are extremely hardto get to some are easier to get
to though still not very easy toget to from here in the US um

(32:25):
and then also my strengths as arunner which um I learned a lot
this this season about aboutthat and how important it is to
you have your like your pushraces that you're probably gonna
um like you have a you have agood chance of doing pretty good
in it but you're you knowthere's the those push races are

(32:47):
the ones that will challenge memore so than others they'll all
challenge me but um than theraces that I'm more set up for
success with my specific successskill set.
So for me I know that likeliterally running from sea to
sky is something that I'm strongat when I start at sea level

(33:08):
obviously I don't have to dealwith altitude um I train pretty
consistently at like 4,000 to7,000 feet.
So when I run at sea level Ifeel amazing like I can push my
heart rate much harder and focuson the technicality of the
course, which is where I striveI mean thrive.

(33:29):
So that comes into play whenselecting races but last year
when I was looking at Austria Ihad never been to Austria and I
just dreamt about thosemountains and wanted to see what
they were like firsthand.
That course in particular hashad I think one maybe more
cancellations in the past so Iknew that weather might be an

(33:50):
issue and up until the day ofthe race they were projected to
have like crazy lightning andmaybe snowstorms that had get
gotten canceled the previousyear.
So oddly enough that intriguedme because I know that weather
weather is something that I canhandle.
Like we talked about earlierheat is not necessarily my best

(34:14):
friend.
So if it's colder I know that'ssomething that I can do like
perform well in um and I alsowanted to my coach my coach
likes to remind me to thinkabout what I want to enjoy as a
celebration drink and mealafterwards.
So that came into play too withstrudel and beer.

(34:36):
I like that um but outside ofthat I mean Canada that's when
you look at where these skyraces are happening Canada's
practically our backyard incomparison to some of these
other distant places.
So that was an easy selectionplus running in those mountains
is dreamy.

(34:56):
So unfortunately that gotcanceled the day before because
of a snowstorm um so that was ahuge bummer there were athletes
that had traveled from all overthe world to be there and so I,
you know, unfortunate um my bestfriend and training partner was
literally boarding the planebecause he was going to go race.

SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
Oh my gosh.
He was like getting on the planewhen he got the email he goes
well did he leave?

SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
Did he get off the plane around no he got to get
off the plane yeah it does.
I mean we're at the mercy oflike weather when you're running
up high like that in pretty likehigh consequence terrain.
So that was a huge takeaway forme this season because the next
race after that that I hadplanned was um Beast of Big

(35:40):
Creek which is one of was one oftwo only sky races in the US and
so that was truly in my backyardin Washington on the the Olympic
peninsula and that one gotcanceled because of forest fires
that were raging for monthsunfortunately um so I don't know
the status of that next year yetand then um I had planned to go

(36:04):
to Switzerland for theMatterhorn and that one I just
simply couldn't pull off due tologistics and financials.
And then Ireland Ireland camearound so Lauren Skyline was a
dream like literally my dreamcourse when it comes to sea to
sky um that when you if you talkto other athletes like after

(36:26):
they ran that course too like itwas a fan favorite really well
um well marked strong coursesuper fun it was the equivalent
of a roller coaster um I mean Ithink we went up and over seven
different peaks during thecourse um like up and then you
would you would uh crest thepeak and you could see for the

(36:48):
next three miles the the terrainthat you're about to like roll
right down and right back up.
So it's pretty crazy um andsuper technical course.
So yeah I um I'm really excitedfor next season I learned a lot
this past season and uh I'mreally grateful for you know all

(37:11):
of like the support and justtakeaways truly I feel like you
cannot begin to understandskyrunning unless you go try it.
And then you're like oh okay andI now I kind of understand and
can comprehend what this isabout and what's important and
how it actually is prettydifferent than trail running

(37:32):
races.

SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
How how has it changed obviously you've been
working with your coach for abit now and you're preparing and
getting ready for this this wasyour first season of really
doing like big world classraces.
How has it changed yourperspective on training now as
far as like the way you probablyimmensely right it's like night
and day.

SPEAKER_00 (37:52):
It's um yeah I uh I mean we've been going into last
season I was really focused onjust like building my base and
increasing aerobic capacity andfocusing on some speed toward
the end of my off season goinginto last season and I it took a

(38:16):
lot of trust to trust him trustmy training because this is
going to sound crazy like myfirst race of the sky running
season was the Austria race andI think that was um like 8,000
feet of climbing over 30k and Ihadn't done a lot of vert

(38:37):
training up until that point tonof strength ton of like flatland
training and speed training andI was like Christian are you
sure I'm are you sure I'm readyfor this and and he he was like
yeah yeah you're for where youare now and what your goals are
um trust your training.
And so I trusted my training andit was the hardest part of that

(38:59):
race was not the uphill thehardest part was the last um
like 10 or sorry last last fivemiles, eight miles maybe which
ironically was most similar toprobably what you'd find in like
a golden trail race.
It was just like undulatingdownhill, uphill not technical
um so I've learned the trainingreally is so specific for this

(39:25):
type of running and racing.
And I felt it again when I wasin Ireland there were like five
different occasions during thatrace where I was like oh I
wouldn't be able to go be goingat this pace or climbing this
efficiently had it not been forthat particular training run
where I did like a certain setof intervals.

(39:46):
A lot of my training is veryheart rate based.
So it's a constant balance ofjust being able to be super
mindful of that like at alltimes during the race.

SPEAKER_02 (39:57):
Very cool.
Yeah yeah I see like I've seen acouple photos.
I haven't I tried to lurk you onStrava but you're private.
I'll have to lurk it later umI've I've seen you on the track
a little bit too um do you dolike uh how how have the blocks
worked especially now coming offthe season are you back into a

(40:18):
base period like what are youworking on now yeah right now
I'm in a base period I'm workingon more or less like increasing
volume but keeping intensitypretty low.

SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
So um mostly I'm staying in like zone two, zone
three with most of my trainingruns.
We're trying to I meanscientifically speaking we're
trying to um you know justincrease the load and volume and
efficiency cardiovascular andcardiovascularly and muscular

(40:54):
endurance wise so that I canbecome more efficient.
I almost said comfortable butyou're never comfortable running
one of those races um for longerperiods of time over greater
distances.
I right now like I'm you knowI'm running like 50 mile weeks

(41:16):
probably which feels like veryvery comfortable on my body and
so over the next like remainingweeks in this block I'll be
increasing distance as the weekgoes on not necessarily paying
so much attention to vert youknow like there's snow in the
mountains and and I'll get inthere soon once it fills in more

(41:39):
but um just putting in puttingin the miles.
So it's a little bit mindnumbing at the moment for me if
I'm being honest but I try to Iactually love I love running at
the track because it's it's afun opportunity for me to like
test myself and and it's areally efficient workout.

(42:02):
But I'm trying to just enjoy thethe the volume right now and
just like pick my head up andlook around more and enjoy just
the long longer runs and um Iit's easy for me to get a little
bit bored when I'm not runningon super technical stuff.

(42:24):
So it's yeah winter training offseason training is a challenge
for us all.

SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
Dude I feel your pain I'm gonna text my coach I
had a coaching call on Fridayand I was like dude could you
just let me run up a mountainplease at like zero please like
please just please let me dosomething.
This me nuts yeah so I totallyunderstand um all right so back
to sky running I think there's athere's a lot of questions I can

(42:52):
pull from this I think the firstone and probably the most
important one is like just thetheir lack of representation one
from the Americans over thereand two just from just like
American women that just wedon't have a lot of them if any
of them this was something wereally wanted to get into and
talk about going into thisconversation.

(43:12):
So I'm gonna give you the floorto talk about it and just so we
can hopefully you know raise thebanner and get some some more
people you know from states inthese races.

SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
I know the ladies it's it's interesting I mean
there's there's work definitelybeing done to increase
representation um for sure intrail running um and as you get
more niche into the differenttypes of trail running there's
there's there's a lot of work tobe done right like it's um

(43:48):
overwhelming to to see all ofthe work that needs to be done.
Yet at the same time the womenthat I have like I am so
inspired by the women that havedone this if you know even if
they are not in the the statesthey're over in Europe and um

(44:08):
those are like the role modelsthat I have to look at at the
moment.
There that being said there aresome other like I am not the
only one in the states pursuingskyrunning.
There are some really talentedwomen out there too.
But the the need to increaselike the number the sheer number

(44:31):
of women starting at you knowtowing the line at some of these
sky races is is huge.
I think I got used to like priorto starting racing skyrunning I
got pretty used to justselecting the more technical
courses that I could find inraces that are more local and so
yeah I got used to just therebeing fewer women in that

(44:53):
starting mix and I thoughtsurely going to Europe excuse me
like the birthplace ofskyrunning and racing in Austria
there'd be hundreds of womenthere.
And that wasn't the case.
So my eyes were opened there andthat made me realize like it's

(45:13):
not it's it's not just a USproblem.
It's it's a global problem.
And so I think there's there's alot of work that can be done
from these race organizations.
There's a lot of work that canbe done from like us as athletes
men and women um but also brandsthere's a like literally golden
ticket wide open opportunity oropportunities in the US for

(45:36):
brands to step up and and be inthis space more specifically for
skyrunning and I I've heardrumor that's that has happened
that's starting to happen umbecause they're the ones that
have you know a lot of influencetoo in addition to athletes out
there.
So I'm excited to see some ofthat happen more so in the

(45:59):
future.
You know I think it comes downto it's if if we don't see other
women out there doing the hardtechnical thing, then it's hard
to picture ourselves out therein the first place.
Also it's hard to know and I'veasked a ton of people this

(46:22):
question just to gather likeinsight um what's preventing
them from getting more into skyrunning women in particular and
the answers are financial umit's hard to travel to races
that are overseas um gear nopeople don't know you know what

(46:45):
they should wear or how to dresshow to layer for um a sky race
or just running for fun in likea sky race type of terrain and
then just general awareness Imean awareness and education but
how to go out and like find aplace to do skyrunning in the

(47:05):
States is a little bitconfusing.

SPEAKER_02 (47:07):
There's also there are some barriers in place like
the US is just we operatedifferently obvious obviously
than you know some of theseother places and running off
trail is seen as taboo whereasin Europe it's like you'll see
people just frolicking you knowthe the goal is how to get from

(47:29):
the town to the top of themountain in the most efficient
line as possible and you can gooff trail and go anywhere you
want here that's just likepretty frowned upon um so
there's yeah about that yeahyeah okay so a couple questions

(47:50):
I have off this I think one thatimmediately sparks my attention
I just find it interesting isand for men this is goes for men
and women especially on stateside but just in general it
seems like golden trail man justseems to snap up a lot of a at
least on the American side I canspeak for it the the the elite

(48:10):
women seem to be funneled moreon the short trail side really
into the golden trail andthere's significantly less if
any like I could think on thetop of my head like maybe Kelly
Wolf, Karina Anderson MichelleMorales like there's not many
women that have competed overthe last like but I guess Billy
Kalza because I know she didSkyrace Day Mouth Dun a couple

(48:30):
years ago but like very few.
Is it the story that's beingtold is it the the prize money
the availability of spots like Ijust find it very interesting on
the American side how little umI mean and men too I mean I mean
yeah there's really not a lot ofdudes I mean what are we uh

(48:52):
Morgan Elliott and like twoother people maybe yeah Benjamin
Townsend you know there's notmany yeah I um well to be fair I
so the Skyrunner World Series isthey have an elite athlete um

(49:12):
program where they sponsor umsome athletes from around the
world I don't know what theirstrategy is for like how they
pluck or select you know peoplefrom different countries um but
that that was one of the waysthat I was able to they
sponsored me last season so theydid help with a lot of my travel

(49:32):
and and whatnot and I do knowthey are going to be doing that
next year but it might be itmight look a little bit
different.

SPEAKER_00 (49:39):
I don't know how yet but I think in general I mean
golden is so spot on with theirmarketing and their content and
they're just like a really welloiled machine and you put that
next to UTMB and all of a suddenSkyrunning they while they while

(50:01):
Skyrunning has been around for along time I mean they've they've
got work to do to bump pump bumpup their you know like
visibility and marketing andcontent and they know that.
And they also know that there'sa golden opportunity in the US
so I've been asked this beforelike why are they not why why is

(50:24):
there that like seem that miss Iguess um and I don't really know
I I haven't really figured itout.
I think that what I've narrowedit down to is um a lack of
education a lack of truehonestly clarity on what
skyrunning is and how it whereit fits into trail running and

(50:48):
ultra and mountain running andlike in the states you have
people trying to make thesedecisions between if they're
running you know like UTMBraces, Cirque, Golden Trail
factored in a lot of you knowall the others too and
skyrunning there's you go to theInternational Skyrunning
Federation website and select USand like last year there were

(51:12):
two races.
So it's just it's not big here.
It's not known um yet butthere's there's a lot of
opportunity for it to be butthere's a lot of um criteria
that need to be met from the ISFto get there.
And so I think that is somehurdles whereas if you you know

(51:36):
have a race that can be called atrail race because it's on trail
that's a lot easier to market,get permitting for and um put
out there into the world than arace that requires like so many
more levels of permitting andapproval.

(51:57):
I mean the ISF has a laundrylist of things that they require
um a race to have in order forit to be marked as a true sky
race.
So I think if you go out thereand ask athletes do you want to
race a sky race you'll probablyget a lot of like yeah I do
where do I go?
How do I start?

(52:17):
Like where do I do I have to goyou know over overseas to do it.
And it's kind of like well atthe moment yeah but I will say I
think you know Cirque series andwhat Julian's building there is
probably the best trainingground for sky racing in the US

(52:38):
that I I've I've seen I meanthat speed go obviously but I
mean and of course there'sbroken arrow but I I don't know
I have my my um particularitiesaround a lot of other some of
those races out there.

SPEAKER_02 (52:55):
I think the rut the rut also I broke see the rut is
more a sky race to me and thisis no like I love Brandon.
I love Broken Arrow and I'll beat Broken Arrow this year for
commentary and I but to me Ithink that I don't I it's hard
for me to say it's a sky runningcourse.
Like sure there's a lot of avertyeah I don't think it's I and I

(53:15):
think a lot of people all theelites listening to this are
probably going to say the samedamn thing.
I don't think it's thattechnical there's sections like
certain I don't have to go intospecifics but like if you're
looking at just a whole from aholistic I go back to the Cirque
series because I think you'relooking you're taking that
aliaska course is bananas um Ilove that course that's a great

(53:37):
when why when I I raised that in2024 and the downhill section of
that I was like screaming at thetop of my lungs because I was so
happy to have that that I meanyou were like sliding down the
mountain it was so technical.
Oh yeah um I was like finallylike this more of this I want
yeah that Alaskan mountain scenesome those are some

(54:02):
interestingly cool people andlike there's a like a there's a
scene there which I think iskind of cool and I think it's
it's very underground very slepton um but yeah I think if in in
the United States in general ifwe were to do a sky race that's
a spot that should be consideredI don't know if there's like a
multiple peak link up type oftrail system that we could do

(54:23):
but like that's that's the spotto do it.
I think or that's one of thespots I think the problem with
like the why and we'll get intothis we'll talk more about like
the US and stuff like that.
But yeah the Cirque series to meis the I think the closest thing
in general and I the atmosphereI like the atmosphere it's
competitive the best of the bestshow up like very in very few
races outside of Broken Arroware you going to be able to race

(54:45):
Patrick and Philamon on US soilwhich is crazy.
Granted they're like a yearremoved from racing the series
but there there's there's decentlike competitiveness um and it's
it's accommodating for everyoneand I think it's a great
interest point to the sportbecause it the distances are
what 10 to 12 to 13k yeah atmost it's it's uh I mean you you

(55:06):
were at what did you think ofcrystal?
I I was supposed to go this yearand got sick and didn't want to
make it out I was really bummedto it uh but I heard that was a
a really good addition like justa great new course yeah I again
great training course I went outand did the course the next day
as well because I was like Iwant to go back and revisit some

(55:28):
of those sections and um andjust like spend some more time
up there.

SPEAKER_00 (55:36):
But I yeah I I also think it was a great addition.
I grew up skiing that mountainso it was really cool to like
run it in a race.
I'd never done a race at Crystalum but I also think I think and
don't quote me on this but Ithink there used to be some sort
of sky running race there.

SPEAKER_01 (55:55):
There's a marathon there.

SPEAKER_00 (55:56):
Yeah okay that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_02 (55:58):
So like also great skyrunning terrain I think
obviously you're when you'restuck to the the confines of
like the resort you're notgetting the technicality of a
lot of the other like peaksaround there but like gosh open
that course up make it longerand get into some of the other
stuff like the backcountry stuffand you've got yourself a

(56:21):
skyrunning race so um yeah I gotso excited about that was that
your did I answer your questionI want to shift yours a little
bit I have a question for youbecause we were copied on on an
email with US Skyrunning whatrole to like is that an arm of
the ISF like what what role didthey did they play?
Like what's the deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 (56:44):
Yeah um they are I again don't quote me on this but
my take is they're an arm of theISF they work with the ISF um
I've met with them and um theISF they all kind of communicate
and work together and everybodyis acutely aware of the

(57:05):
opportunity in the states um soI I there's a lot more that can
be done in the states with theUS skyrunning organization and
I'm excited to hear more aboutthose plans and and work more

(57:25):
closely with Ryan and um we'llsee um I know that the youth
skyrunning organization thatthey've that Ryan has built for
USA is has been a major focus oftheirs.
So that's great.
Like love to see that I knowthey've hosted camps for girls

(57:47):
who are like really strong crosscountry runners in um high
school and tried to expose themto some of the more like
technical terrain which alsolove that that's great.
They were based in Vermont andthen they moved to uh Italy

(58:08):
which because they I I thinkthey wanted those mountains
which don't blame them for thatdolomites are irreplaceable but
um you know that just they'rethey're over there and there's a
lot of work to be done overhere.
So um I'm excited to see youknow how all of that kind of

(58:28):
plays out.

SPEAKER_02 (58:29):
No I I like that and the reason I asked is because
like I I see you as this just areally good figure for uh maybe
maybe an ambassador I think ismore of the right word this
ambassador for US skyrunning yougo abroad and you race these
races you get to experience thiswhole thing.
And I think that there's a greatopportunity there for yourself

(58:50):
and others that that race theSkyrunner series the world
series.
Jackson Cole's a great exampletoo I know he's uh you know he's
uh he's a little bit quieter onthe on the front but like goes
and races everything is one ofthe best in the world um I think
there's there's opportunitiesthere for to raise awareness and
get more conversation aboutskyrunning in the states uh just

(59:11):
let me ask you this like I knowyou've had conversations you
don't have to give anything awayI feel like we're close to maybe
having more races like I know onthe website what is it the
Broken Era 23k is there onecertified course and then the
other one's Beast of Big Creekis it are we are we close to to
something else being added?

SPEAKER_00 (59:28):
Like is that a possibility or you know I yes
and the difficulty the thechallenges are still the same
and I I don't think there's beenanything done to like ease those
challenges if that makes sense.
So I agree with you like the rutI would love to see that become

(59:52):
an official course I againexcuse me the technicality side
of things like they the ISFWants to heavily protect the
integrity of what it means toSkyrun and be an official
skyrunning course.
And I'm all for that.
So I do think we're going tostart to see more US-based races

(01:00:16):
get that certification as thateducational side grows.
Also, and I should havementioned this earlier, one of
the things, one of theinitiatives that USA Skyrunning
and the ISF is working on is anofficial skyrunning coaching
certification, which will beinteresting to see how that
affects the landscape at all.

(01:00:37):
I think, you know, I'm in favorof it because I think that
again, the more education we canget out there, um, the better.
And I think that will alsotrickle into helping more
courses become officialskyrunning courses.
But we're also we're also umaffected by our permitting

(01:00:59):
system here, insurance barrierslike that that are just bigger
levers to to pull.
So we'll see.
Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:09):
How aware are you of like the 2019 series they or
like the the series that died in2019?
There was like Skyrunner USA.
Yeah, which was like a thing.
Yeah, it was actually it'sfunny.
When you were talking about likethe first races that you did,
like when I first got into thesport, like that was like what I
was looking at doing.
Like there was I think it wasthe Sangra de Cristo 27k, which
is like just two laps up anddown a fire, like a steep fire

(01:01:32):
road.
Yeah.
What are we doing?
This is sky running.
Um, but yeah, I I I totallyunderstand the need to protect
uh the sanctity of a like dude,the rut would be so perfect
because that that course is beso perfect, so nasty.
Yeah, that's uh yeah, that wouldwork perfect.
I mean, there's a lot.
I mean, I don't know how like isthere a certain distance length
they have to have?
Like, or is it um just there isthere is a certain distance

(01:01:57):
length.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:57):
I don't know it off the top of my head, but it's
like if you break down a course,they're particular about every
single like the the percentageincline, the average incline
over the course of the entiredistance, the course distance,
the like climbing grade.
It has to have a specificclimbing grade where it's you
don't require you know equipmentfor climbing, like with specific

(01:02:24):
gear, but the course can haveropes.
So like sometimes you might berequired to um not bring your
own rope, but like use ropethat's there, wear a helmet,
things like that.
So yeah, yeah.
To answer your question, 2019,I'm like, man, I I missed, I
missed that.
But but I think it's probablylike it will come back in a in a

(01:02:48):
better, stronger way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:50):
I like that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:50):
So TVD on I'm hopeful now when that happens.
Yeah, I mean, I'm hopeful too.
It's and I agree with you,Alaska's like quintessential,
like probably that in theWasatch, yeah, best terrain for
it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:04):
It's funny.
I'm such a snob that like like II I'm like very like I I get
even mad at like some of thelike the road builders in
Colorado.
I'm like, you guys couldn'tbuild a 17.5% road like ski
road, like I know environmentsanywhere.
Like I have to like travel forthis, I have to use my
treadmill.
Um the dude, the Wasatch iswhere it's at.

(01:03:24):
I I have to be honest with you.
I know.
Like, I know people want to talka big game about Boulder, and
Boulder's cool and all, but Ithink the best training ground
in America has got to be theWasatch.
I can't believe I'm saying that,but it's true.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:34):
It's okay.
I am so glad you said thatbecause I have had my qualms
with Boulder, I've almost movedthere like five different times.
My coach living in South Africa,he's like, Boulder's like the
the mecca for him in the US.
He's like, just move to Boulder,move to Boulder.
And I agree.

(01:03:55):
Like, I I I mean it's great.
Don't get me wrong.
I spent a lot of time there.
But I when it comes to justwanting to go up and practice up
and down in technical terrain,like yeah, I have to say Wasatch
and Alaska are probably like thewinners.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:11):
The Northeast the Northeast is sick too.
I just think that lane, I thinkactually very slept on, like the
White Mountains in New Hampshireare everything there is built
straight up and straight down.
It doesn't have quite thevertical relief that I mean,
some sections definitely do.
Um, but like if you're trying torace, the problem with the White
Mountains is it just doesn'thave the altitude.

(01:04:31):
Whereas like if you're trying toget ready for something of more
Europe-based, I do.
I really think the Wash makes orif you're trying to race in the
LaSatch, like a Cirque seriesraces or speed goat, it makes
the best sense to train forsomething like that.
Um yeah.
Really quick, I want to pivot uhand talk about 2026.
Like, what do you what do you uhhave planned for this upcoming

(01:04:52):
year for racing?

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:54):
Yeah, I am like in the thick of planning for that
right now.
Um and just waiting at themoment for the Skyrunner World
Series schedule to be released.
It should be released like anymoment.
So excited for that.
That's what I'll kind of buildmy racing schedule around is
those the I'll I'll pick likefour to five Skyrunner World

(01:05:18):
Series races to be like myA-level races, and then from
there I'll filter in some Blevel races that are great and
fun and um support the A-levelraces.
So as far as I don't think Ihave a hunch, it's just a hunch,
that Austria is gonna be a skyrace next year.

(01:05:42):
I think they've switched thataround.
And um otherwise, I would loveto race that course again
because I think I would do a lotbetter this this year and have a
good chance of being top 10 init.
Um so we'll see on that one.
I'm definitely gonna go back toCanada because have some
redemption to get.
And I just want to see, I mean,those mountains are insane.

(01:06:02):
So uh that's on the list.
And then um I would love to goback to Ireland.
That race was really fun, andthis this past year was special
because it was the UK nationalskyrunning championship.
So it was there are a lot ofpeople there and strong talent,

(01:06:23):
and I think that'll be the casenext year too.
So yeah, I am excited to seethere's supposedly some, well,
there's supposedly less races onthe Skyrunner World Series
calendar next year, and um I'mhappy about that because that's
gonna make the pool, the field,just deeper at the races that

(01:06:44):
they do have.
And then they're gonna add acouple of races too.
So I'm like, yeah, we'll see.
I'm excited to see to see whatwhat they come forward with.
But I would love to race therut.
Um, you know, I unfortunatelybroken arrow tends to be on the
same weekend as a SkyrunnerWorld Series race as Minotaur.

(01:07:06):
So I I'll do Minotaur notinstead of broken arrow for the
same reasons that you sharedearlier.
Like I I it's like almost butnot quite.
I don't know.
I would say I was really bumped.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:19):
I wanted to go, like, I'm definitely going out
to Broken Arrow this year, but Iwanted to do back-to-back
weekends where I race on theEast Coast and then cover broken
cover broken arrow and thencover minotaur and maybe race
Minotaur, but also do like racecoverage for it.
And now that Minotaur, I thinkMinotaur, I'm pretty sure it's
on the same weekend as BrokenArrow, so it's definitely not
gonna happen.

(01:07:39):
I think so.
Yeah, yeah.
I know this year it's a specialyear too, because I think it's
the North American final, right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:46):
It is.
Um Championship or somethinglike that.
Youth.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:49):
Youth Championship.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:50):
It's something it no, I think it's beyond that.
I think it's it's like one stepup to.
I think it's a I don't know,they just announced something
that I totally think.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:00):
It's um, yeah, it's huge.
So that'll be a competitive,fun, popular race.
Uh so I'm super jazzed aboutthat.
I'm also considering going to dothe Mexico Sky Challenge.
It's usually in March, actually,sorry, May.
Um ironically, like you'd thinkgoing to Mexico from here would

(01:08:21):
be easy, but it actually likethe flight time getting to the
specific town that it's in is isum is rather difficult.
It ends up being like the sameamount of time to get to Maria
Alm, which is where the AustriaSky Race is located.
So we'll see.
But outside of that, I'm gonnado I'm I'm probably gonna do a

(01:08:41):
couple, like you know, for funlocal races leading into the
season.
Um I try to do those and supportsome of the local race series,
and then maybe like a road halfjust to for fun to kind of work
on speed.
Um, but we'll see.
Yeah, that's exactly mostlythat.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:03):
Very cool.
Yeah.
We're uh actually one more thingto add to that, dude.
All tracks extreme, that racelooks nuts.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, yeah, I didn't say ifif I can, I would love to do
that race because I did not dothat last year.
And just to experience that,that course is like the real
deal.
Like they do not, there's no BS.
They're like, you're either hereand you're able to race this or
you're not gonna be able to racethis.
Oh, too.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:31):
Awesome.
What is it?
Uh Day Math uh what is it, SkyRace, Day Math Sin?
That's another sick race.
Yeah, I maybe I that's high onmy list.
Maybe next year I'll do theSkyrunner series, or at least do
a couple of them, throw them inbecause they do some of them
like math, day math sin, becausethat fits in that's like early
season.
What is that?
Like May?
Yeah, I think it's like lateMay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:50):
So yeah, it's early.
I almost I yeah, that's apopular one too.
So it's like the the field is isdeep in that and it's beautiful.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:01):
Yeah, and you can cut switchbacks, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:05):
I know another thing that you definitely are not
allowed to do here.
They like applaud that there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:11):
They're like, oh big no no here.
Yeah, it's funny.
I um I don't know if you crosspaths with Benjamin or Rio
Townsend.
Uh they live locally in ColoradoSprings.
Benjamin uh they both did theU23, and uh Benjamin was telling
me when he raced Sky, I thinkSky Dameuth Sin a couple of
years ago was like his firstSkyrunner race, and he was like
astonished because like they'relike calling the switchbacks and

(01:10:31):
he's like didn't know what todo.
He's like, Do I do this?
Do I not?
Yeah.
So yeah, it's the yeah, you'relike, What?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:37):
Is this legal?
Like, yeah.
Yeah, and it turns out the onlyway to win the race is if you do
that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:42):
So that's true.
That's true.
Yeah, he was like, dude, he'slike, Antonio Martinez ran like
a mile less than me and won therace.
It was like, he's like, what thehell?

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:54):
Um last thing I want to get to.
Where are you at on sponsorsearch?
Are you are you a free agentright now?
Are you looking for for I'm afree agent?

unknown (01:11:02):
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:03):
Yeah, I've um had so prior to I was working with
Neurona, they were kind of mylonger term partner for three
years.
They um are starting to get moreinto US, which is which is
great, but from strictly aracing perspective, they're less

(01:11:26):
focused on racing.
So I decided to go out on my ownum and not um continue working
with them last uh spring andjust wanted to um, I mean, I've
worked with like you saidearlier, like brands here and
there on on things.
And um I decided going into lastseason, I wanted to just kind of

(01:11:50):
I was able to do it, you know,with with just being a free
agent, being my being on my own,and um was able to kind of make
it work with with work andworking for myself and
financially.
And so I decided to just like dothe season like that and see
what could come of it and not gointo it with any crazy pressure

(01:12:13):
from sponsors.
Um and it was great, and I'mglad I did that because I think
it's a different, it's adifferent experience than when
you're working with a brand andhave to, you know, there's a lot
of things that come with that.
But moving forward, I mean, allthe travel and everything
required and um it's I I amlooking and I want to do so

(01:12:36):
intentionally, and I've beenpretty focused on prioritize
prioritizing that like level ofintentionality and making sure
that partnerships ideally likeare long-term for me.
They're not one-off and it'sreally like true value alignment
in you know what works for mefrom a product perspective, but

(01:12:57):
also like where we're headed.
I want to work with the brandsor brands that see, you know,
the value and are putting theirum walking the talk of trying to
get more representation outthere, more women involved, more
women in technical terrain.
So um yeah, being patient andtrying to be intentional about

(01:13:18):
it.
But yeah, free agent at themoment.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:21):
I like that.
I like that.
All right, that's a good pitch.
We put that out into the world.
Um I think that there's and I Idon't know, I I your background
too speaks so well, um,especially given what you do
professionally and uh being ableto marry that.
I think there's a lot of goodgood potential and cool stuff
there for the future.
So very cool.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:41):
Thanks.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:41):
Yeah.
Do you think we I think we're atwhat hour 10, hour 11?
I think we got everything.
Is there anything you wanted touh throw in at the end there
that you don't think we covered?

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:51):
No, I think um yeah, I think we pretty much much got
to everything.
Um I'm excited to to see hownext season shapes up.
And I think there's like I'vebeen what keeps me inspired,
especially during you know,going into off-season like this,
is just the questions that I'vebeen asked of interested or from

(01:14:15):
interested runners, interestinterested skyrunners.
And so, you know, if if anybodylistening to this ever has any
questions about that, like mydoor is always open and I'm
happy to chat anytime.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:27):
I was gonna say something similar to you.
I I you're gonna be like myskyrunning person.
If you if you have you ever havesomething you want to talk
about, like skyrunning-wise orwhatever, like well, your the
microphone's always yours.
I think that there's good reallylike especially as the sport
develops and grows in the UnitedStates and as it starts to kind
of catch legs, um, I thinkthere's gonna be opportunities

(01:14:49):
or a lot of room forconversation as uh it starts to
grow.
So definitely looking forward tomore of those conversations down
the line.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:57):
Yeah, no, me too, for sure.
And I think it will grow.
I think it's only a matter oftime, and I think there's enough
interest now and curiosity thatit's only it's only going to
grow.
Um, so I'm excited to revisitthat conversation when the time
comes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:10):
Sweet.
Well, Robin, I really appreciateyour time.
Thank you so much for coming on,and uh, I'm a big fan.
I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:17):
Yeah, likewise.
Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:22):
There we go.
Cool, stopped.
Um, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
Well, what'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode!Definitely a fun conversation
with Robin and really lookingforward to having her back on as
the uh sky running continues toevolve in the United States.
Robin's definitely a thoughtleader and just a pioneer in
that space.
Um, not easy going over anddoing your whole racing series

(01:15:43):
abroad, and it's definitelysomething she's been doing.
And uh yeah, just definitelywant to commend her for that and
uh excited to see where hercareer is gonna take her in the
sport.
Um guys, if you enjoyed thisone, definitely follow Robin.
You can find her at MindfullyRobin on Instagram.
Give her a follow.
Um, check out her website, yeah.
Check out her website, it'smindfully robin as well.

(01:16:04):
Both are gonna be linked in theshow notes.
Um if you enjoyed this episodeand have been enjoying what
we've been doing, give us afive-star rating and review on
Apple, Spotify, YouTube, orwherever you consume your
podcast.
Subscribe on YouTube, and ifyou're listening on Apple, not
just give us a five-star review,but guys, tell us why you're
liking the pot.
Tell me what you've beenenjoying.
Um, definitely appreciate thatand always love the feedback so

(01:16:25):
we can continue to improve thisthing.
Uh, very last but not least, um,guys, if you are interested in
getting some apparel or any softgoods, uh hydration solution uh
for your loved ones for theholidays, use code
SteepstuffPod.
That's one word Steep Stuff Poduh at checkout on ultimate
direction.com.
All kinds of good stuff therefrom Ultimate Direction.

(01:16:47):
Use code Steep Stuff Pod.
I'm gonna get you 25% off.
Uh guys, we've got some funepisodes coming down the little
pipeline.
Thanks for tuning in.
Have a great rest of your week.

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#142 - Robin Vieira Brower

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