#143 - Michael Wirth

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What happens when a mountain athlete chooses meaning over metrics? We sit down with ski mountaineer and mountain runner Michael Wirth for a rare, candid conversation about privacy, purpose, and why FKTs feel more honest than podiums. Michael traces his path from the Roaring Fork Valley to a brief stint in consulting, then into a life shaped by long tours, sketchy weather windows, and the strange pressure of being recognized for what you do in quiet places.

We dive into the gritty details of his November push on the Tonto Traverse—training alongside David, the tendon flare-up that arrived five days out, the decision to keep moving until it didn’t make sense, and the bittersweet satisfaction of seeing a partner set the record. Michael explains why FKTs pull him more than racing: logistics and judgment matter, terrain asks real questions, and the reward lives in moving across a landscape with speed and care. He also opens up about social media’s tradeoffs—how YouTube can tell richer stories than Instagram, why follower counts too often shape contracts, and how protecting your relationship with the mountains sometimes means posting less.

From scouting the North Cascades High Route and a scary black bear encounter to training blocks built on threshold, VO2 efforts, and the occasional treadmill sufferfest, Michael’s outlook is equal parts frank and thoughtful. He’s eyeing future ski objectives, possibly a renewed push on the High Route with friends, and a career path that might include climate tech or even farming—all while keeping the flame for big, meaningful days outside. If you care about the soul of mountain sport, the pull of place, and the balance between craft and commerce, this one hits home.

If the conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review. It helps more curious listeners find these stories and keeps the stoke going.

Follow Michael on IG - @michaelcwirth

Follow Michael on Youtube - @michaelcwirth

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James Loriello,and today I am so excited to
welcome Michael Wirth to theshow.
Michael has always been, to me,one of the more interesting
characters in the sport, and Iwas super excited to have a
conversation with him and uh gethim on for a chat.
Um, Michael is both an esteemedski mountaineer and mountain
runner, and uh now residing inCanada in Squamish.

(00:23):
Um, and we caught up to talkmore about Michael as the
person.
We didn't really get too muchinto performance.
Yeah, we talked about some ofhis old school stuff, like the
Elkstraverse FKT, the Hatrick,course record of Telly Ride,
Mountain Run, and a few otherthings, but his conversation was
more around Michael as thehuman.
Um, we talked about his lifeafter the professional athlete

(00:44):
scene.
We talked about the need for asocial media presence and
YouTube as a professionalathlete.
Um, we talked about FKTs versusracing and why Michael prefers
the FKT scene when it comes downto competition and things like
that.
It was super fun.
Uh I gotta say, I'm superappreciative uh to have had him
on the show for a conversationand uh looking forward to what

(01:05):
he's gonna do in the future.
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one, Michael
Worth.

(02:27):
Podcast, how's it going, man?
It's going well.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, excited to uh excited tofinally do this and have you on
the show.
Um I feel like you're uh I knowwe were kind of talking about
this offline.
You're like a mystery person,mystery man a little bit, so I'm
excited to learn more about you.
I I couldn't find much on theinternet and uh other than like
your YouTube and socials, so I'mexcited to uh ask you the 10,000

(02:50):
question game.
So it should be should be kindof fun.

SPEAKER_02 (02:53):
Yeah, I I joked with James saying that that's what
I'm trying to accomplish.
Um just because uh yeah, I Idon't know.
I feel like I like did a littlebit of YouTube stuff uh a few
years ago and um and then forlike a year, year and a half,
which obviously is like theantithesis of trying to be a

(03:13):
mystery.
Um it's definitely like puttingyourself out there and being
like, hey, check check me out.
Um yeah, I feel like I've sortof stepped away from socials a
bit over the past year.
Um maybe that's why you thinkI'm a mystery man.

SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
No, I yeah, I mean there's part of it.
Okay, I tried finding you onStrava.
Do you actually have a Strava oris it private?
Yeah, I have a Strava.

SPEAKER_02 (03:39):
Um it is private.
I think I probably had like like600 followers or something, and
then I like deleted everybody.
Yeah.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 (03:49):
I just like Did you go by one by one?
Get rid of each person one byone?

SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
I think you you have to.

SPEAKER_03 (03:57):
But I was just like I just recently.

SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Yeah, I I don't know why.
I think that I was probably justlike angry one evening.
No, just kidding.
I I think that I just haverealized like as I have gotten
older that I'm actually likekind of a private person, and um
I think Stravis certainly can bea pretty um informative social

(04:22):
media about your whereabouts andyour daily habits.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (04:27):
Well, you you fooled me, dude.
It's hard to find.
So maybe uh maybe as we getstarted, uh for the audience
that might not be familiar withyou, maybe give me like the
five-minute elevator pitch.
Like start with growing up inthe Roaring Fork Valley, uh, and
then take me through you knowwhat you did in college and
stuff like that to uh where youare now.

SPEAKER_02 (04:49):
Uh yeah, I grew up in the Roaring Fork Valley.
I was on swim team when I waslike four years old.
Um and that's when the aerobicswere introduced to my life.
I've been skiing since I wastwo.
Um super lucky for that.

(05:10):
And yeah, kind of like I feellike did some competitive skiing
um growing up, but nothing likeever very high level.
And then kind of transitioned tolike doing some more exploratory
type skiing as a teenager, um,with like a small amount of

(05:32):
touring mixed in.
Yeah, did a bunch of bikeracing.
Um and then kind of like incollege, or I went to school at
Claremont McKenna, small littleschool in Southern California,
was like definitely still stokedon riding bikes and trying to

(05:56):
run here and there and just likestaying fit.
Didn't really ski that much, butum skied some.
Would like ski super hard when Iwould come home for like the
month of winter break, which wasreally nice.
Um but yeah, then I feel likeafter school I I graduated in

(06:16):
COVID and actually like youknow, was um set to move to New
York City and be a managementconsultant for this company
called Air Up.
And I did that for a bit, um,but was remote and living back
in the Roanfork Valley and yeah,just sort of like fell back into
the ways of like skiing 100 daysa year, sort of thing, uh as you

(06:40):
did like kind of growing up, andbut yeah, entirely just touring
rather than like going to theresort.
And I feel like that just umreally concretized my love of
ski mountaineering andbackcountry skiing.
Um again, it was sort of like arevitalization, and then like

(07:00):
also you're more you're more ofa developed human, so like you
can start to think about more ofthe things that you actually
want to do.
And um, yeah, I started just skitouring a bunch and trying to
ski a variety of randommountains throughout Colorado,
and um that has sort of likebranched outside of Colorado

(07:23):
since then.
I've been lucky to ski in theAlps as well growing up, and um
yeah, I I suppose I like dabblein mountain and ultrarunning as
well, um rather unsuccessfully,and in all honesty.
I think that I'm yeah, much moreof like a ski mountaineer than

(07:43):
uh um ultra runner, but I liketo hang out with some of the
ultrarunners, they're fun.

SPEAKER_03 (07:48):
Yeah, interesting characters.
Uh I got a question for you.
So you uh I find this reallyinteresting.
So and I did I lurked yourLinkedIn before this because and
I had this question preparedabout management consulting.
Like I work a big boy job aswell.
Did you just decide you're likeI don't, I'm not interested in
this life and decided to go theroute of a professional athlete
and kind of live whatever thatlife wouldn't encompass and kind

(08:11):
of left maybe that professionalcubicle job behind?
I know you said you were remote,but it's still corporate, it's a
it's a just a different lifethan maybe the one you live now.

SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Yeah.
Um I think that I was superlucky with Sportiva to have the
opportunity to step away from astandard job and have like
enough financial backing to sortof explore what I could do for a

(08:42):
little bit of time as a yeah, asa ski mountaineer.
And yeah, I was I was lucky tolike be able to step away and
and do that in my 20s and havethe opportunity to do that, but
um that was like entirelybecause of my contract with
Sportiva.
And um yeah, I'll definitely goget a big boy job again.

(09:07):
Um damn.
Like so uh yeah, yeah, uh, butyou know, that's uh everybody
else has to.

SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
So yeah, that's the game we gotta play,
unfortunately.
Um dude, you so you said beforethis, I don't know how much
public you want this, but likeyou said, you were residing in
and training out of Squamish.
How do you like being there?
I mean, I've heard from manypeople, Adam Campbell, Jesse
McCauley, that it's it's kind oflike mecca in a lot of ways for
mountain athletes, likeeverybody's doing something

(09:38):
awesome or is up to somethingpretty amazing.
Um, yeah, how do you liketraining out of there and what's
that life like?

SPEAKER_02 (09:45):
Dude, it's fucking rainy.
It's miserable.
No, just kidding.
Uh squamish is actually it's uhbeautiful, but it's rainy as
fuck.
Um I like left uh here in Idon't know, sometime in October,
because it was just like rainingfor like three weeks.

(10:08):
And um, yeah, I just got backlast week and to have like
Thanksgiving up here to bringAmerican Thanksgiving to the
51st state.
No, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
But uh yeah, um it's been raining since I got back,
and uh maybe there's like snowup there, but I haven't went and
checked.

SPEAKER_02 (10:33):
I'm like pretty tired right now, so okay.
I'm just kinda I'm just kindachilling.
Um just been like swimming inthe pool, actually.
Since it's wet, like might aswell just fucking stay wet.

SPEAKER_03 (10:43):
That's a great, great little like pastime to do.
Are you do you like do thatoften for training?
Like I know it's likeaerobically awesome swimming,
but no, I don't do it often atall.

SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
I think this is probably like the maybe fifth
time I've swim for the year.
Yeah.
Which, like, you know, four ofthose times have been in like
the past week.

SPEAKER_03 (11:04):
Nice.
Well, maybe tell everybody whereyou got back from.
Like, uh, other than that, likeyou were just uh you and David,
I know David finished it, youwent with um attempted the Tonto
Traverse.
Um the Tonto Traverse.
Honestly, I had no idea itexisted until David started
talking about it on socialmedia.
Um, yeah, what was that allabout?
What was your situation likethere?

(11:25):
Did you have a good time?
Like, what what went down?
What unfolded?

SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So I got this is why I like tosay that I'm the unsuccessful
Ultra Runner, is because I gotuh I got humbled for sure.
And David killed it.
The Tonto Trail is a yeah, uhit's like a traverse of the
Tonto Plateau, and um the TontoPlateau is a plateau within the

(11:53):
Grand Canyon.
It's you know, depending onwhere you are on the south rim,
it's either all the way down atthe bottom of the canyon or kind
of like three-quarters of theway down, and so it traverses
from east to west via like a94-mile stretch.
Um just yeah, on this plateau inthe canyon, and goes through a

(12:17):
bunch of cool washes.
Um yeah, it's a just a mega,mega trail and really far.
The canyon is extremelyunforgiving, um, which is like
one of the most beautiful partsabout it.
And David and I wanted to do itkind of as like a little partner

(12:42):
collab.
We had sort of flirted about theidea last year, and then we were
like, yeah, let's do it thisyear.
And um, so we just like wentdown for November and trained a
bunch in the canyon, whichessentially just consisted of
like doing a bunch of runstogether, and um I suppose like

(13:05):
I did a bit of backpacking withmy girlfriend, um, which was
fun, and to mix up the training.
I can't run as much as David,but um nobody can.

SPEAKER_04 (13:17):
Well, very few people can.

SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
Yeah.
And yeah, then we like went forthe Tonto.
I sat it kind of sucked becauselike our training was stupid.
Um at this point in my life,like I'm kind of just like the
way that I like to train is justto do a bunch of long adventure
runs, getting ready forsomething, and then like maybe

(13:41):
do a couple like thresholdthings or something, like a
little ways out just to primeit.
But um David was like, This isso stupid to just be doing like
four super long runs beforedoing a hundred miles.
I was like, whatever.
Um and then my uh I likeactually uh I was feeling super

(14:07):
good after our like last longrun.
Um super solid and healthy.
And then I did like someintensity actually, like five
days out, and I injured myself,which was sucked.
Um yeah, like pulled somethingin my uh it's in one of the

(14:32):
tendons on like my around likethe perennial of my soleus.
Um and I, you know, kind of justlike shut up and was like, uh,
it'll be fine, it'll be fine.
And then it was not it was notfine.
I I blew up pretty hard aroundlike I think like mile fifty or

(14:54):
something.
Um or like I think I blew uparound like mile 40 and then
kind of pushed through it likean idiot for like 25 miles, and
then um and then was like David,you gotta go.
And then David went and got therecord.
Um which is super cool.

(15:15):
It was definitely like a bummerto not do it with him.
Um but I think for me, like Ihonestly don't really care that
much about the record.
Like I just wanted to go theTonto Trail, which I didn't,
which sucks, and it's like superlame.
Um But I got to do like I got tobe on every part of the Tonto

(15:38):
Trail except for like athree-mile section.
So that's like kind of a win formyself.
And I haven't even have I toldyou what the taunt yeah, I told
you what the Tonto is.

SPEAKER_03 (15:50):
Tell me what it was.
Yeah, it's I'd say that's themost I I knew about it up until
going into this.
I probably should haveresearched that was the one
thing I didn't research beforethis conversation.

SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
Oh yeah, I think also something worth noting just
to like um put it in perspectivefor like how cool David is.
I mean, he's not that cool, likehis ego is pretty big, but um,
so just in case he hears this,no, he is super cool.
Um, and the guy who the twopeople who had the Tonto FKT

(16:24):
beforehand was uh Buck and Rob.
And Rob is like pretty notoriousin the ultra running community.
He like won Western states oneyear, I believe.
Um one of the best ever did it.

SPEAKER_04 (16:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
It's interesting to me.
Um I don't know.
Like I I've gotten over the thelast year or so to like uh I to
know more of like Jackson Coleand got to spend time with him
with the races and stuff likethat, and he's always spoken
very highly of you.
And he kind of tipped me off toone of the projects you and him
and David were working on in thehigh route this you know,
potentially this past summer.

(17:00):
Um yeah, so I I just I find thatthat this trio of you three to
be very interesting as you'reall uh amazing athletes in your
own right, and you all have likereally cool stories to tell.
Um yeah, maybe talk about that.
You guys have a coachingbusiness, you guys and I do want
to go more into what happenedwith the high route because I
heard you got like attacked by abear or something before, or I

(17:20):
heard some stories.
So yeah, I don't know who youheard that from.
I think I think David was theone who actually said that, or
something, something happenedthis past summer.
I don't know.
But yeah, maybe talk about likethat relationship and uh and all
that.

SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
Yeah, um David is like kind of like a brother um
at this point, even though welike I mean we don't really know
each other that well, but we dowe do at the same time.
Um we just like met each otherrandomly, actually on like a
mountain running route in theCanadian Rockies, which was kind

(17:55):
of wonderful, and one of thoseinteractions where you're like,
huh, maybe this person is likemeant to be in my life.
I don't know.
I like to think about things inthat sort of way, and we just
like ran together for I don'tknow, a week or so following
that, or a week and a half, andthat was last summer, or like

(18:15):
the summer before this, thispast one, summer of 24.
And that was really fun and coolto get to know him, and I feel
like when you when you spend alot of time trying to get better
at something, it's it's reallynice to like share that process

(18:39):
with somebody else because umthere are plenty of like
vulnerable moments, you know,where you um think you could be
improving better in some regard,or like yeah, I don't know.
We all care.
Um, and so like David and I likebond over that quite a lot, just
like caring a lot about thesport of ultra running and just

(19:01):
like mountain endurance sportsin general.
Um and have yeah, just been likefriends for each other over the
past like year and a half.
And Jackson and I have knowneach other for longer.
Um, I feel like it but we likemore so would run into each
other at races, and I think justbe like Jackson was always way

(19:23):
faster than me.
He's like a little spark plug.
I'm more of like a he's so fast,yeah.
It's ridiculous.
I feel like it if I couldperform at a race, it has to be
like 40 miles or something, um,of where I could like maybe hold
Jackson just because and I'dhave to be in like very good
form.

(19:43):
Um But yeah, he's just like slowtwitching it.
Well, I guess I yeah, have justrun into him at races, he always
wins.
I'm always like I don't go tothat many races, but the ones
that I watch him win, I'musually like in the back.
And then Jackson and I startedrunning together more.

(20:06):
Um and I we had some yeah, wejust like had some fun and then
I showed him how to ski tour alittle bit and we had a lot of
fun doing that too.
And yeah, then I mean I figuredthat they would we would we all

(20:28):
figured that we would be goodpartners to do the high route
and then we like I don't know,it just fell apart.

SPEAKER_03 (20:36):
Damn.
Do you think there there's apossibility this happens in the
in the future?
Could you guys put thattogether?
That would be very cool becauseit seems like no one's really
done it since Caitlin Gerbin anduh her partner attempted it.

SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah, it would be super cool to do, and I think
that they would be goodpartners.
Um yeah, we all have differentstrengths to bring to the table.
Like Jackson is just aphenomenal mountain runner.
Um super quick and speedy, lighton his feet.

(21:08):
I am a pretty decentmountaineer.
Um and David has greatendurance.
I have great endurance too.
Um, so like all three of ustogether works works well.
It would be fun to do.

SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
Um it's just a slog for sure.
Um did you guys like how muchscouting did you guys get to do
of the actual route?

SPEAKER_02 (21:35):
Uh yeah, so Jackson and I did the isolation
traverse.
So the route is like broken intothree different sections: the
Pickett's traverse, um theisolation traverse, and then the
ptarmigan traverse, which withlike an alteration at the very
end to go to Stahegan ratherthan down Downey Creek.

(21:58):
Um and Jackson and I did theisolation and then like the day
after or something, we did theTorment Forbidden Traverse,
which is just like more of amountaineering and climbing
traverse of some cool mountainsthat are like right there in the
center of the universe of theNorth Cascades, and then did

(22:21):
Forbidden by itself the dayafter, and then did like the
Tarm again the following dayjust by myself.
Um so yeah, which I would say islike half of it.
Um yeah, and then I went to gocheck out the Pickett's traverse
by myself, but actually had likekind of a shitty bear encounter

(22:41):
and failed.

SPEAKER_03 (22:42):
So the bear encounter did happen.
Alright, I was gonna ask youthis.
I heard there was a bear attack.
I wasn't sure if they werebullshitting me.
So that's what I was curiousabout.

SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
Oh yeah, I got real scared out there.

SPEAKER_03 (22:52):
Dude, tell the story.

SPEAKER_02 (22:53):
What what what what went down?
I'll have to save it for anotherday.
Yeah.
No, yeah.
Just the universe is telling me.
Not ready for you, boy.
Go home.

SPEAKER_03 (23:09):
Is it a grizzly bear or a black bear?
It was a black bear.
Alright, well.

SPEAKER_04 (23:15):
It would have been crazier if it was a grizzly
bear, or it could have beencrazier if it was a grizzly
bear.
I don't know.
You tell me.

SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
I don't know.
I've like run into likedefinitely over 20 grizzly bears
just like by myself and neverhad an issue.

SPEAKER_04 (23:30):
I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
Just yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Never had an issue.
I mean, I've like run into somany black bears, been like
locked outside by like bigbrothers, you know, with like
black bears in the backyard.
Like the they're scared.
You can scare them.
But this one, he was not gonnabe scared.

(23:52):
Yeah.
He was gonna scare me.
So that's that's pretty much thestory.

SPEAKER_04 (23:59):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (24:00):
And then I bailed.
Jackson and David had likebailed from doing the high route
before that.
That was actually sort of likemy attempt to like go check out
the pickets and maybe put it alltogether that summer.
It's just way too big of a routeto do by yourself.
Yeah.
Pers for me.
Um yeah, I just think it's likereally long.

(24:23):
And uh But I would like to doit.
It's uh it's super beautiful.
Like the isolation and theptarmigan traverses are
spectacular.
It was really fun doing thosethis year.
And I think Jackson and I didthe isolation in like 16 hours,
and then um the pharmiguan andlike I did it in like 10.

(24:44):
Um and so it would be cool.
Like, I mean, some really goodlike mountain and ultra runners.
Not saying it will be us, butlike somebody could totally do
it in like two or three days.
Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
I the only reason I asked is I I've never been in
there in that terrain at all.
And it just that uh thedocumentary that was made on it
made it seem so out there andjust like so wild.
Uh so that that definitely hadsome intrigue.

SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
Yeah, it is kind of out there.
Um yeah, I think I think that itis.
I mean the pharmigan traversedoesn't feel very out there
because like there are so manypeople that are on it.
But if you're not used to likeglaciated terrain and the like,
then it certainly feels outthere.
But like every time that I wenton it, you can um you can just

(25:39):
like follow the footsteps.
But the isolation, nobody wasthere's no footsteps, there
weren't any like steps.
I'm sure yeah, plenty of otherpeople do it.
Pickets, I don't think, get verymuch traffic.
Um and the pickets are harder toget to just because like you
have to take a boat or like doan illegal border crossing,

(26:02):
which is like not allowed right,or it's like not kosher to do
right now.
So the boat is kind of the wayto do it, which obviously like
adds a logistical component thata lot of people can't make
happen.
Um and for this, like and forthe particular start of the high
route this year, you had to takea boat and then like take a

(26:22):
little raft across the lake byyourself.
So a little bit morecomplicated, even further
because of low water levels thisyear.
I would like to do it.
I don't know if they would wantto do it.

SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
I have no idea.
Like I said, I think you guysare just interesting, the three
of you.
So it's it'd be it's I I don'tknow.
It's like a cool, cool group ofpeople doing cool stuff.
I don't know.
That was kind of a very broadstatement, but I think it was uh
I don't know.
It'd be cool to see you guys domore.
Um, especially, I don't know,with your YouTube background and
stuff like that, it'd be cool tosee more.

(26:57):
I don't know, you guys makevideos and do cool shit like
that.
Makes it kind of fun.

SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
Yeah, I've been I've been thinking about like making
a YouTube video or somethinglike that about Jackson and I's
little like isolation andtorment traverse thing, and then
me doing the tarmigan like theday after.
But um yeah, I guess I justhaven't.

(27:23):
No, they're been thinking aboutmaking another YouTube video as
well, but it's just um it's niceto hear when people like like
them because boy, I hate it.

SPEAKER_03 (27:36):
Yeah, I was well, that's what I was gonna ask you.
Like, how do you feel aboutthat?
I mean, I asked you the questionvery early on in this
conversation.
You seem more like uh you putthat stuff out there on YouTube,
obviously, but obviously peopleare more calculated with what
they put out into the world.
Um, but you also come across askind of a private person.
Like, how do you how do you workwith that?

(27:56):
Like, how do you I guess tusslewith being able to put stuff out
into the world like that andthen maybe not?

SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
Um yeah, I think it was it's I think that if I put
something out there, I'm justgonna like kind of go AWOL.
Not is AWOL the right word?
Just like incognito afterwardsbecause I don't really want to

(28:25):
like hear what people have tosay about it.
I don't really care.
It's like not the reason fordoing it.
I think the reason for doing it,for doing something is to like
do it.
And then yeah, if there's like astory to tell about it, it's to
my intention is definitely tolike share that story and to
hopefully inspire some people.

(28:46):
Um yeah, and I think that itwould be nice to like I don't
know.
I just struggle with socialmedia in all honesty.
I just think that there are somany like rad people out there
that are not posting anything onsocial media that are doing

(29:08):
really challenging things andlike don't get credit.
Um and so and I think thatsocial media can be like sort of
like an ego-boosting thing,which I find to be dangerous.
Like, I I think it can also likemake you sort of lazy if you
like rest on your laurels andlike use social media to rest on

(29:30):
your laurels.
So I've sort of like I feel likejust like wanted to like be
pretty conscious of that, andlike if you post something, you
know, just like not really seewhat people say about like you
know, oh you're red, or likeyou're the man, or like you

(29:51):
know, there's probably one dudewho's gonna be like, you suck.
And like it's probably good justto like not read either of those
things, like the positive or thenegative, just because it's so
fucking disingenuous.

SPEAKER_03 (30:06):
Do you see it more as like I don't know, uh is it
is maybe your art, like whetherit's a ski route that you're
putting up that you're talkingabout or something related to
running when you're making Idon't know, maybe we could talk
about like the Elks Traverse,for example, the video you made
on that.
Like, do you do you see thatmore as your art and you putting
that out into the world and youjust don't give a shit what

(30:26):
somebody has to say about itbecause it's your thing?
And the second you pay attentionto what other people have to say
about it, then it kind of uhmaybe taints uh your art going
forward or or how you viewsomething.
Because that's something I'vetussled with myself, and I think
about this a lot when it comesto the podcast.
Don't pay attention to whatother people have to say, good

(30:47):
or bad, because it's all justbullshit, whether one way or
another.
Like you're always gonna havehaters, but you're also gonna
have people that tell you thisis great too.
And either way, it's not helpingyou get to what you want to do,
right?

SPEAKER_02 (31:01):
Yeah, I think that like if um if there's something
that needs to be talked about interms of like any type of art
form, I would not consider mylike YouTube and like videos
like to be you know art.

SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
I would say I mean more with the routes, like the
your athletic endeavor.
I mean it's more as the art.

SPEAKER_02 (31:23):
Thanks.
Um I do care what other peoplehave to say because like it's
nice to but I don't care whatlike the armchair alpinist on
YouTube has to say, if thatmakes sense.
Um and I think I I care a lotabout what people have to say,

(31:44):
actually.
Like, particularly like youknow, somebody like David.
I I really care about what Davidhas to say about like you know,
me not finishing the Tonto.
I care a lot, but like um or howI approach like a specific
route.
Um or maybe the storytelling tolike go with a specific route

(32:08):
like that.
I I do care about that.
I think that you want to be ableto like surround yourself with
the comments where people aregiving you the time of day to
like actually think about it.
And it's um I think just whenyou like put yourself out there
publicly on the internet, itjust becomes a place for mayhem

(32:32):
and like all care to kind of goout the window, and not like
care as in like caring andkindness, but like care as in
like being sort of mindful aboutyour thoughts and actions and
words and um so yeah, I thinkthat's how I like engage with

(32:55):
social media.
I don't know.
It's all it's also like just umI think why I've stepped away
from YouTube is like it's uhit's too much of a trip for me
to be recognized by somebody.
But I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 (33:11):
So have you have you been stopped before?
And someone's like, hey, that'sthat's Michael Worth.
Can I like I I love what you'redoing?
Like how I find that very weird.
I have been stopped before, andI find that very strange, and I
don't like it.
I I you probably much more tothe degree than I have.
So how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
I've always tried to just like ask people, like,
what's your deal?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Like, what's good with you, man?
What's your name?
I don't I don't you don't needto fucking hear about me.

SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
So yeah, it's happened a bit like in some
backcountry spots.
Um but I think it's also likecool.
I mean, I couldn't imagine whatit'd be like to be an actual
celebrity.

SPEAKER_03 (33:58):
Well, Anton.
I always find Anton likeobviously that's different,
that's a degree lower, but like,dude, Tony like can't go
anywhere without someonehassling him.
It's kind of interesting.
Yeah, I mean, I find it like Idon't know.
And then yeah, if you're anactual celebrity, yeah, fuck
that, dude.
I think for me, it's more so thethings that people have to say
on social media.

(34:18):
Like you said, like peoplereally have no, like they don't
care.
Like, I had someone recently saysomething to me about like the
way I pronounced a word, and Iwas like, dude, you didn't take
in anything into accountabilitythe entire like body of work
that I just did for that hourand a half episode.
That's what you care is abouthow I pronounced a word.
Like, seriously, yeah, peoplealways gonna have their things

(34:41):
to say, so I couldn't imaginethat like at like the smallest
of level, or at the sorry, likesuper magnified, if you will,
where everyone wants to knowmore about you, or everyone
wants to know what you're up to.
Yeah, I I yeah, I don't likethat.

SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
Yeah, I mean, I think we get, or I I I don't
know if we, but I definitely getinto my own head about like just
being private, or like, I don'tknow, it's not even being
private, it's just like, yeah, Idon't know, putting something
out there and like you know,having people.
But of course, social media hasits valuable uses, and I think

(35:25):
the direction of like I I thinkhonestly something that Jackson,
David, and I get on really wellabout is like recognizing the
fallacy that is social media andnot like I guess not buying into
it as much.
You know, I definitely boughtinto it a little bit with like
making YouTube videos and likeum or for sure I bought into it.

(35:47):
Like it's definitely what helpedme get like be a quote unquote
pro athlete.
Um and it's a valuable tool, andI think that that's like the
direction that the industry isgoing, is that if you want to be
a quote unquote pro athlete,like you have to utilize social
media in some regard andarguably be pretty good at it.

(36:09):
And uh yeah, I think David andJackson their social media is
definitely a test to it betterthan mine.
Mine is a bit more curated.
Um yeah, but I don't I don'tthink that's anything about
effort level.
I think that's just like output.

(36:29):
Um yeah, we all three of usthink it's a fucking shit show.
Like it is the amount of weightthat is like put on social media
to determine like someone'spaycheck as an athlete is like
ridiculous and shouldn't be thatway.
Um it should be based off ofmerit.

(36:52):
And I think another thing that'slike really bad about social
media is that you have a lot oflike old cats that aren't doing
jack as an athlete, um and thatare just like getting money uh
to which is just too bad.
It's like it support some like17-year-old who can like do a
triple backflip, you know, likegive him a grand a month.

(37:14):
Imagine like how stoked he'sgonna be to like do something,
um or she.
So that's kind of like I thinkthe problem with social media is
it just like sort of createslike these whale figures in the
outdoor sport world, from myopinion.

SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
I agree.
Well, it's weird, right?
Like, and this is something Ithink we tussle with.
I I find this conversationparticularly interesting in the
trail running world.
I don't know how it is in theski world or the ski mountaineer
world, but like I don't know.
Like if you look at, forinstance, like climbing, if
you're a big well-known climber,you have a massive social media
presence and you're constantlyputting out stuff.

(37:57):
I don't know if you're doing ityourself or if someone's doing
it for you.
But usually, I mean, you look atlike Margot Hayes, you look at
obviously Alex Ronald's probablya bad example, but most of the
larger name climbers all havemassive social media followings.
And they're kind of aninfluencer in a lot of ways, and
they're putting stuff on YouTubeand they're doing that, and
they're playing that game.
Whereas like I find a lot more,I don't know, maybe iconoclasts

(38:20):
in the trail running space, butwe're like, fuck this.
Uh I think in kind of to whatyou said, it should be more
based, and I very much come fromthis campus, it should be more
off of merit than if you cantake a really good photo.
But also, are you conveying thatstory?
It's like kind of the game youhave to play as a professional

(38:40):
athlete to be a professionalathlete, which makes it kind of
it's kind of like, I don't know,you're talking out of both sides
of your mouth kind of thing.
It's it makes it veryinteresting to be a professional
athlete.
Like they want you to post, theywant you to do this, they want
you to do that.
Um It's weird.
It's a very weird game, and Ifind it very, a very nuanced
argument in trail running.

unknown (38:58):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (38:59):
Yeah, I mean, I I do totally agree.
Like it it the part of it isbeing able to tell a cool story,
and like there are people thatare like killing it with that.
And I think that's why YouTubeis actually kind of like cooler
than Instagram, is because youcan actually like tell a story.
Um, and there are some like coolYouTubers that also make dope

(39:19):
films that are extremelytalented.
Um I mean, in all honesty, Ishouldn't be even like saying
anything about this because II've just sort of like forfeited
my YouTube development.
So um now I'm just an armchair,armchair hater, not even in the
game hating, just from theoutside.

(39:41):
Uh but yeah, it is about tellingstories.

SPEAKER_03 (39:47):
That's part of it.
I want to pivot a little bit andask you about FKT versus racing
on the mountain running scene.
I know you've never been, Imean, obviously you've set
course records, like you havethe course record at TMR, like
if Done a pretty solid body ofwork on the racing scene, but
obviously I would say you'reprobably in the mountain running
community more well known foryour FKTs.

(40:08):
Uh what inspires you more aboutthe FKT scene versus like the
racing circuit?

SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
Yeah, I don't think that I'm actually like
inherently that competitive of aperson with other people.
I think that I'm supercompetitive with myself.
But yeah, I've never like beensuper jazzed about like beating
someone.
Um and I think that yeah, FKTsare just cooler because they're

(40:40):
like in inherently in coolerplaces.
Um races are also completelycontrived where they are just
like, I don't know, a coupleloops on a bike trail or
something.
Whereas like FKTs like, youknow, it makes a lot of sense.
Go to the top of the mountainand come back down, sort of

(41:01):
thing.
Um, or like traverse like thislike piece of land.
So I think FKTs make a bit moresense to me in terms of like
what you're actually going outthere to do rather than like
rather than just like going outto like exercise and have a
fitness test, you're like goingout to yeah, discover a piece of

(41:22):
of the earth and like see howquickly you can move across it.
Um so that's been what has likedrawn me to FKTs.
Um and I think yeah, the coolthing about FKTs also is like
they do provide a bit moreadventure than a race, you know,

(41:45):
depending on which one they are.
Um oftentimes like you have toorganize your own logistics or
or just like carry in a food.
So that's why I like FKTs.
Um, I think people like to makefun of FKTs uh as like you know,

(42:07):
just like being a try hard onlike something that you don't
really need to be a tryhard on,but it's nice to try hard, and
like I think it's one of themost fun ways that I've found to
try hard as an adult, um, isjust like going as hard as you
can, like up and down a mountainand seeing how your time kind of

(42:27):
compares to your time, or maybelike when I was younger growing
up in Carbondale, seeing howlike my times were so far away
from like Tony's times um in theElks, because he put up like
some fast times there when hewas super fit, and like just
watching my times get likecloser and closer was cool.
And then you're also just likerunning on mountains and like

(42:51):
falling down them.
It's yeah, it's it's good oldboyish fun.
It is good fun.

SPEAKER_03 (42:56):
It's interesting.
I I don't know, I've beenparticularly like critical of
FKT in recent years, mostlybecause of the Michelino
situation and everything thatwent down with the grant, but I
still very much feel that FKT isthe soul of our sport, and like
I'm friends with a lot of peoplethat are very much embedded in
that scene and love that scene.
And I I hope it's something thesport never loses.

(43:17):
Like, I feel like the ra thesport has gotten so damn
professional in the last fewyears that we've seen a shift
almost more to this uheverything being just
professional racingcircuit-wise, or everything's
more optimization.
And I hope that we can likemaintain this world that is like
you versus you on any given dayin a mountain or you know, on a

(43:39):
mountain and trying to do yourbest.
And uh yeah, I wonder if thatwill like I think it'll
persevere, but I I I fear thatit might not in a in a race in a
sport that maybe becomes anOlympic sport or just continues
to change year after year.

SPEAKER_02 (43:54):
Totally.
Yeah, I think like we should allwant to be like trail slash
mountain runners for the purposeof like really thoroughly
enjoying it.
Um because if we like wanted toif you want to like do a fitness
test, go be a road cyclist.

(44:15):
Um yeah, like if you want to seehow many watts you can put out
that is like compared to howskinny you are, go be a road
cyclist.
Like and you also want to seehow like well you can handle,
yeah, like go be a road cyclist.
But um, for like the hippiedippies who want to just like
frolic around in the woods, likeyeah, make it kind of about

(44:37):
that.
Um I think that trail runningand mountain running and
mountaineering, um, you know,they're different.
Um but like ski mountaineering,I think this is like genre of
just like traveling on your feetin the mountains, uh, is very
much about like it's somethingthat's very like important in

(45:01):
and of itself.
I I think about things like interms of Kant's categorical and
hypothetical imperatives a lot,whether like something is in and
of itself important or like justa means to an end.
And I think like if you get toocaught up on fitness um in just
like winning a race, it's alwaysjust like a means to an end and
just like chasing a goal.

(45:22):
And yeah, that certainly is likethe direction that trail running
is going with UTMB and the like,is just like, yeah, get as fit
as you possibly can, do theworkouts that you need to in
order to improve your lactatethreshold and running economy,
and then like go try to rip itat UTMB, um, which is fine, but
it's like yeah, would be kind ofcooler to have like the center

(45:46):
stage of trail and mountainrunning be something that is
like more measured on one'scapacity to like hop across
boulders, you know, just becauseit's like that's like kind of
what the sport should be, orlike I think what a lot of
people in like the previousgeneration kind of set it up to
be.
I think that's sort of like whatKillian would represent, is it's

(46:10):
the capacity to move throughoutmountains, and like Anton
definitely showed that um to mygeneration as well in the
States.
It's like it's the capacity tomove amongst mountains.
Um yeah, and if you're liketrying to measure the capacity
to move amongst mountains, it'snot just a a fitness test, it's

(46:32):
a test of how like present youcan be and how aware you can be
within both your body and theenvironment.
Um so yeah, I think like turningback to that would be would be
ideal, and I think there'stotally a way to do that.
Um I I think that it is likeyeah, prioritizing FKTs and

(46:57):
stuff like that.
Also, like there are so manysuper cool races out there that
I don't even know of.
Um David would be like a muchbetter resource to talk about
that.
Um yeah, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (47:14):
Curious, you for you coming up over the last few
years in the sport.
Yo, can you say that again?
Sorry.
You coming up over the in thelast few years of the sport, who
inspired you?
Like who who who like do youlook to for inspiration in
sport?

SPEAKER_02 (47:30):
Uh yeah, I look to road cyclists for sure.
Um are you joking or are youbeing serious?
No, like dead ass, yeah.
I think road cycle road cyclistsare real men.
Leave the real men stuff tothem.
That's why we have to do in andof itself, man.

(47:50):
We just have to be happy everyday.
Whereas like those roadcyclists, they can suffer day in
and day out and wait for thattour de friends win.
They're like more developed.
Um no, I think road cycling isreally, really inspiring for
fitness and um also liketechnical capacity.
Boy, those boys can go fast.

SPEAKER_00 (48:11):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (48:12):
Um, I mean, I think yeah, road cycling is
undoubtedly like the pinnacle ofaerobic performance.
So I like to look at that.
And then I think like CameronHorst really inspires me.
Um, he's a sick climber.
The Duray brothers reallyinspire me.

(48:33):
They're super cool.
Um Ian Buttons really inspiresme.
He's like a really rad skimountaineer out of Revel Stoke.
Logan, Logan Logan, super radsplitboard mountaineer.
Um yeah, Taylor Sullivan, strongmountain athlete all all around.

(48:57):
I think just people that I'velike have shown me how to do
some things and bring a lot ofstoke to the sports that they
do, and um yeah, those are thepeople that have inspired me.

SPEAKER_03 (49:16):
Dude, and you came into the sport and you've done
some like really wild shit, likethe Elks Traverse FKT, uh,
Hatrick, you set the firstrecord of TMR.
Like you've done some reallycrazy things, especially on the
FKT scene.
Do you feel pressure to have tolike stay at that level or
repeat or do big shit?
Or is it more let me just go outand do the things that get me

(49:40):
stoked?
Like, do you ever feel the needto have to do something as big
as like when you when you brokethe elkstraverse record?
I feel like that was a hugedeal.
There was a lot of media aroundit, not just for yourself, but
like uh newspaper articles,trailrunner mags, stuff like
that.
Like, did you do you feel theneed to have to try and like
repeat stuff like that?

SPEAKER_02 (50:00):
Um it's actually really interesting that you
asked me that because being inSquamish, I I just moved here in
um the middle of this pastsummer um from a small town in
Washington.
And I currently like don't feelany sort of inspiration to do

(50:23):
anything in the coast range.
I just like have no emotionalconnection to these mountains,
and so like sitting at home andum yeah, like learning how to
play the guitar or something islike almost more no, I'm just
kidding.
Like I I just don't have like alot of emotional connection to

(50:44):
these mountains, so it's notlike I'm like, oh, I like really
need to go do this thing becauseI've been like dreaming about it
since I was like six years old,and oh my god.
Um whereas like the Elks, youknow, I was like lucky enough to
like grow up there and hike withum my friends and stuff and my
parents, and um yeah, it justwas like makes sense to like be

(51:06):
super inspired by thesemountains and like want to do
stuff in them.
It's also sunny in Colorado allthe time, so like you know, you
don't have to be a lot of rain.
But um yeah, no, I think thatthe coolest thing that like the
elks kind of brought me was thatit was never a it was never a um

(51:30):
external pressure, it was alwayslike internal of just feeling
yeah, stoked to like go checkout these places and like see
what type of experience I couldhave in these places, and like
yeah, that was always theinspiration.
And I think funny enough,actually, like once I got picked

(51:52):
up by Sportiva, um I thinkprobably like yeah, after being
with them for like a year and ahalf, I really started to like
weigh fuck, what should I do forthem?
Like, what would be the coolerthing to do for like someone
else?
And that's when it all like Idon't know, went down the drain.
No, I mean I I don't think thatit went down the drain, but like

(52:18):
it's nice to find something thatjust means something to you, you
know?
Um and I think when you findthat it doesn't really like
matter what uh other peoplethink, and because you're just
like out there doing it for you,um and so it's gonna be like

(52:40):
happy no matter what, andprobably inspiring no matter
what, and um yeah, I think likeI always viewed the Elks
Traverse to be like this like Idon't know, big thing, not
always, but like the time that Ihad known about it, I was like,
oh, this is like super big, andlike I did that like ski thing

(53:00):
of like skiing the 13ers and theElks, and Carly, this woman at
the time that I was hanging outwith a bunch, she was like when
I was sort of doubtful aboutbeing able to do the
Elkstraverse, she was like, Bro,you like skied all the 13ers,
you can like totally do this.
I was like, Huh, maybe I shouldtry to do this, and um then I

(53:21):
just like you know, really onlyspent like a month sort of
getting ready for it.
Of course, I had been likeaerobically training with like
skiing, but not like I was like,you know, planning six months
out to like do the Elkstraverseor something, um, and like
really training specifically forit, just kind of like being fit
and then month out get ready forit.

(53:42):
And um yeah, it like went well.
I you know beat Ricky's recordand um which I think was like
sort of cool at the time, andthen Sammy Hamilton just like
destroyed it, which was awesome.
He's quite a legend.
It would be nice to go back andget it back.
I'd have to like be a good boyfor like a year um to do that.

SPEAKER_03 (54:06):
But what do you mean by good boy?
Do you mean like just like eat,sleep, and drink it, spend as
much time at altitude?
Like what what do you define bygood good boy?
Yeah, just have a good year oftraining.

SPEAKER_02 (54:18):
Okay, just be a good boy, you know, just like do your
uh do your threshold days and doyour VO2 days and do some
strength and go skiing allwinter and go running all
summer, do some climbing?
Be a good boy, be a good boy.

SPEAKER_03 (54:40):
I uh I you said in the beginning of the
conversation you're like shit, II go get a go get a big boy job
and do that life.
Do you do you still feel thecall to the reason I ask this is
like do you do you prefer tojust be a sponsored athlete or
do you do you want to go theroute of you know go get a big
boy job and play that game?
Like like where do you what whatcalls you in life right now?

(55:02):
Like what would you rather bedoing, or what do you want to be
doing?
Well, dude, I got dropped bySportiva last year.
No, I know, I know.
That's kind of where I was whereI was going with that.
But like, do are you do you doyou want to continue to be a
professional athlete and playthat game, or do you want to be
um or do you want to just go theroute of more of your what you
did in your degree and and workyou know work a regular job?

SPEAKER_02 (55:26):
Yeah, I think um I would like to uh really put me
on the spot here, hey guys.
Sorry, I don't know.
Um no, yeah.
I think that I want to be afarmer and uh yeah, just work
hard.
And uh you know, one of the bestfellow runners in the world was

(55:50):
just a shepherd.
So I'm gonna go down his lifepath.
I would like to work in somesort of like climate tech um
down the line, like climate techacceleration um as like an
advisor.

(56:10):
And yeah, but right now I don'treally have an interest in being
like a pro athlete.
Interesting.
I like it, it's fun, and I feellike I can do some things that
other people can't, but um, Ithink a lot of people can like.

SPEAKER_03 (56:29):
Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
Is there anything, honestly?

SPEAKER_03 (56:33):
It is a hard question.
I don't know.
That's what that's what I'm herefor, dude.
To ask the hard questions, getyou thinking.
Um what what's next for you asfar as like any any big goals
like on the FKT scene or skiscene?
And I know you said the themountains don't like these
specific mountains in the squamsherry don't really call to you,
but any summer objectives thatyou have?
I know it's like probably poorform to spray, but is there

(56:54):
anything that like you have youreye on, maybe adjacently right
now?

SPEAKER_02 (56:59):
Yeah, I mean, if those fuckers want to do the
high route, I'd be down to getready for that.
I was so fit for that.
I was so ready, I was so dialed.
But um, whatever.
Um, yeah, I would like to dothat.
But like, yeah, and you know,there's so many other things as

(57:21):
well.
Um I would like to ski somestuff this winter.
I had like a fun winter lastyear skiing stuff, and the
winter before was also reallygood.
I skied a bunch of things.
Um yeah, so I'll definitely skia bunch of stuff this year,
hopefully.

(57:42):
Um but I think like yeah, also Idon't think that I yeah, we'll
be able to like dedicate theamount of time that I have to it
um this next year that I havefor the past five.

(58:04):
So yeah, I'm probably like pastmy prime.
I I don't think that I'm past myprime like physically, but just
in terms of like time andcommitment, it's a it's a lot.
I think especially with skiing,like running, you can
undoubtedly do at a really highlevel with a full-time
professional job.

(58:24):
Um skiing is different though.
You gotta like be pretty awareof what's going on in the snow
and also have the flexibility ofschedule to go when it's good.
Um and I think also just likeget in getting into the at least

(58:48):
for me, like sort of gettinginto the mindset of like sending
big stuff is um and just likebeing comfortable in exposure
takes time, a lot like a lot oftime, um, I've found for me.
But uh I would really like toski some like big lines

(59:12):
throughout the next yeah, 10 to20 years and just keep doing
ultra stuff.
Um but I think probably likeyeah, contribute to society in
other ways as well as sort oflike so I I would I would like
to be a professional athlete inlike a a little bit less of an

(59:36):
invested way, but also work insomething that I find
interesting, which I've beenbeing an athlete over this past
year, which has been nice.
And the tonto is like, yeah,nice to get back from that.

SPEAKER_03 (59:54):
I like it.
I like it.
I I dude, I I I kind of switchedgears for this one last
question.
I this is something I meant toask you earlier in Kabil.
Up my mind.
Schemo.
Like, what's your take?
Because you are a skimountaineer.
It's obviously a completelydifferent thing with schemo and
racing and that whole scene.
Like, what's your take on thatwhole scene?
Is that like a thing you're notinterested in?
Like, you're more obviously likeit's a completely different

(01:00:15):
thing for you.
Like, is that something you'dever do, or is that a completely
different thing for you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:21):
Uh, I think it'd be really fun to go do some of the
grand tour uh stage races inEurope.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:28):
Like Pyramenta and stuff like that.
Those dude, this some of thestuff in there is really sick,
like with the beer ferratas andstuff.
It's kind of dope.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:35):
Yeah, no, I think that would be really cool in
like PDG.
Um yeah, I suppose we have somecool ones in the States, like
Power 4 and Aspen, and um yeah,I think those are are really
awesome races and like greatways to interact out outdoors.

(01:00:58):
Um I don't really know how thelike sprint and stuff, like how
the Olympic formats even work.
I've never watched a race, sothat probably like indicates my
interest level.
Um seems like the people that doit are are quite fit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:20):
Yeah, Ken's a beast, dude.
Griffin's a beast.
Guys and girls are killers,dude.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:25):
I mean, like going to the Olympics for it, that's
super rad.
Yeah, but it's definitely like adifferent sport than ski
mountaineering.
I mean, you know, even justthinking about it like
physiologically, you've got likea completely glycolytic sport,
which would be like thesprinting versus you know, more

(01:01:47):
mountaineering is kind of likeentirely oxidative.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:52):
Dude, throwing some throwing some some coaching
words out there.
I like it.
Dude, I saw I meant to ask youabout this too.
I I you posted something a whileago.
It was like uh I think you werein the Grand Canyon training,
and I think it was when I don'tknow if you still work with
Evoke or whatever, when you werewith a coach, and dude, you like
put up your week and it was itwas like stupid, like how much

(01:02:13):
like like volume and like workthat you were doing.
I was like, damn, this guy'sfit.
Like you were you were doingsome crazy shit.
Do you still do you still trainlike that at all or no?
Like is it more yeah, that's howI train.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:24):
Like that's how I train every week.
Um but um yeah, especially likein Mazama, that's how I train.
Um or in Canmore.
I mean, I'm personally just likefeeling quite lazy right now
because like the past 10 dayshave been my like 10 day rest

(01:02:45):
period for the year.
Um just to sort of like let thebody reset.
Um but yeah, I I train likethat.
I I just am used to it and Ilike doing like double threshold
days, and that's a that was abig week for sure.

(01:03:09):
Um but in all honesty, like lastsummer, uh I mean it's just like
that's how it is all that's howit is most of the time.
Um yeah.
And I think that's why I cansort of like occasionally like
whip out a good performance withsomething.

(01:03:32):
Um but it's also why I'm likechronically fatigued.
Or not chronically, yeah.
I think that I am just like abit fatigued, but that's not
good.
I mean hey, we're all tired.
I get it, I get it.
Um, I mean it's fun, it's fun tolike push your body and and see
what you can do, and I thinkthat I can handle a lot more

(01:03:56):
like I can handle a lot ofvolume like back to back to back
to back.
But that's just like I thinkthat's kind of like what I like
to do is um just go like prettyhard every day.
Um and because it's you know itcoincides with like living a
full life and getting to see alot of stuff.

(01:04:19):
And David trains like that aswell.
Where you know, whereas I thinklike people that are faster than
us train more intelligently, umwhere they do like, you know, a
lot of zone one and then likeyeah, aren't over training and
then hit it hit it hard whenthey need to and do their like

(01:04:43):
yeah, one threshold session aweek that is actually like an
hour of threshold.
Um I think if you incorporatethe treadmill you can uh you can
really accomplish like somesignificant suffering.
Yes.
Same with bikes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:04):
Um I feel like it it I gotta be outside on the bike
though, like the indoor bike.
Like I I struggle with the sobad, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:12):
I mean I've been doing these like workouts.
Uh I'm not working with the Vokeanymore.
Um but I've been doing someworkouts from a coach he's been
helping me out, uh, who works atUphill Athlete, and he uh has
been having me do these theseworkouts he calls the man of man

(01:05:34):
workouts.
They make me feel like a littlech a little baby though.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:39):
What you gotta you gotta talk about this.
What is this?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:42):
It's like 45 minutes of like 30 seconds full gas,
followed by like 15 secondsrest, and by the end I'm or by
like you know 10 sets I'm likecrying and then I have like you
know 50 more to go.
Um I think it's a VO2 or or itundoubtedly is a VO2 max
workout.

(01:06:03):
Um but yeah, like do those inthe morning and then do like a
some type of threshold thing inthe afternoon.
I'm not sure if it works though,um, or if it like works.
I guess it depends on whatyou're training for.
But um yeah, the indoor bikesucks.
I like biking outside.

(01:06:25):
And I think that like yeah, thetreadmill and the indoor bike
have been things that I've likeincorporated into working
working out over the past liketwo years, you know, outside of
like being at college andneeding to get like a workout
in.
Um but like more specificallyfor like, oh, I have like the

(01:06:47):
time to go run outside, butinstead it's nice and I'm gonna
run on the treadmill becauselike this is what my coach wants
me to do.
Stupid.
Yeah, I think that you can get alot more um benefit of like
doing it outside.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:06):
Uh we got a ton of snow this week and I moved on to
the the treadmill for a coupledays.
I was so sore from the treadmilland I don't know why.
It's like what the fuck?

unknown (01:07:18):
That's impressive.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:19):
Yeah, it's very weird.
And I I mean I generally onlyrun outside, so it's the first
time I've been on a treadmill inmonths, but yeah, I don't know.
Did three days of it in a rowand I'm like barely walked this
morning.
I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:30):
Yeah.
I think just like do what youenjoy, in all honesty.
And like if you don't like theindoor bike, then like don't
ride the indoor bike.
But like if you like like mybest friend from college loves
the indoor bike.
Loves it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:44):
It's a rare form of suffering, dude.
You gotta really be mentallythere with it to want to do
that.
But yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:51):
Maybe you have planned for this year.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:53):
Uh well, cirque series races, I'll be at Broken
Arrow, the Rut, stuff like that.
Um maybe one international race.
We'll see what happens.
Um, right now I really I'm veryintrigued by wanting to perform
very well at at least two Cirqueseries races.
Um, so I'm very locked intothat.

(01:08:13):
It's probably a stupid goal, butit is what it is.
Broken Arrow, I'll be at becauseI have to do coverage for the
podcast.
So I'll probably jump in maybethe maybe a race.
We'll see.
I might do the 23K, but I feellike that's another thing I
gotta be super locked in for inorder to have like any form of
performance.
And I can't be distracted bydoing uh podcast stuff.
So I still gotta figure thatout, and then definitely the

(01:08:35):
rut, I'll definitely be atspeedgoat, stuff like that.
So most of the big US mountainraces um I'll be at in one way
or another, whether it's racingor uh or coverage for the
podcast.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:46):
So cool, yeah, it's a good community.
We need to like have some moreraces that are um like sky
races, that would be super cool.
I would love that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:59):
This is like a whole thing I'm working on now.
So I just had on uh uh this girlRobin, uh PW girl.
Um we were talking about US skyracing, and like it's this whole
thing where we've got likemultiple, I don't think we're
ever gonna get sky racing in theUnited States.
I mean, we'll see what happens,but like there's this ISF arm
that's like USA skyrunning, andthen there's like World

(01:09:20):
Skyrunner series that wants tocome in the United States, and
it's like there's too much somuch politics.
And I'm working on a podcastactually right now for it to
like get more information outthere to people and just show
like what the fuck is going on.
Um, but yeah, it's a mess.
I I don't think we're ever gonnaget a US sky running race.
Maybe, maybe, but I I seriouslydoubt it.

(01:09:41):
Uh like something like Minotaur,dude, how sick would that be?
I mean, that's an amazing race,but I don't think we'd ever get
something like that.
It's possible, but I I have mydoubts.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that it's justhard with like regulation in the
US.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:00):
Yeah, regulation permitting the whole situation,
like with wild wilderness zonesand stuff like that.
Like maybe in the Wasatch youcould do something.
Like if the Cirque series could,for instance, put on like uh
like their Alaska race, thatAlaska race is sick.
Like, so maybe Alaska hasopportunity uh to put on
something.
Um, but maybe the Wasatch, but Ithink that's like the only place

(01:10:21):
in the lower 48 you could pullit off, is in the Wasatch.
Outside of that, I think it'd beincredibly difficult.
Like, definitely not inColorado, it's too high, and uh
everything outside of Pike'sPeak, I think, is mostly uh it's
all wilderness, if I if I'm notmistaken.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:34):
So but it's so awesome that we have so much
wilderness in the US.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:38):
I think that's a great thing.
Yeah, I'm not saying anythingagainst that.
I totally agree.
Like it's great that we protectthat stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:43):
Uh yeah.
Because it makes the access tothe outdoors like so good.
Yeah.
And um that that have like epictrails that go to like places
where nobody's at, that is likeall over the US.
Super cool.
Actually, like, yeah, I lovethat about the states.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:06):
Yeah, our systems are uh amazing.
It's funny.
I was just in the WhiteMountains over the summer and uh
like in New Hampshire andVermont and playing around up
there, and even that's a sickarea that I think is just like
totally like overlooked, andlike obviously we'll never get
any races in the White Mountainsjust because the it's all
wilderness area as well.
But it's uh we've got a lot tooffer in the United States that

(01:11:27):
I think it people overlook.
And you know, you look at Europeand you're like, well, they
don't really have a ton ofwildlife, they don't really have
a lot of things because it's alloverdeveloped, and you know,
none of the mountains are reallythat remote anymore.
It's kind of different.
Some places are obviously, butum yeah, the US just like has
this wildness to it that I'mglad that we protected so much
of it because it'll be you know,we'll hold on to it for a while.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:50):
So yeah, no, it's sweet, man.
Yeah.
People that yeah, they've donegood work, and then you like go
to the canyon and there are likethese crazy trails out in the
middle of nowhere, and you'relike, what?

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:05):
Yeah, uh thanks for putting this here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:09):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's unique.
Uh I don't know.
I'm like a weird wildlife guy.
I'm always interested in theanimals and stuff, so like I'm
always like Googling, like, ohwell, that's why I always I
brought up the bear thing withyou, because I'm like fascinated
by grizzly bears and likewolverines and shit.
So like anytime someone's got agood bear story or like a
Wolverine story, I'm like, oh,please tell it on the podcast
because it's interesting.

(01:12:29):
But yeah, and I feel like we'vethat's a rare thing we have in
the states that we protectedsome of that stuff, and can't
say that for other countries.
So yeah, sweet.
Well, dude, we're at about timenow.
Thank you so much for coming on,man.
I really appreciate your time.
I appreciate the conversation,and uh yeah, man, you're you're
one of a kind.
I'm glad I finally got to haveyou on.
I've always been interested inlike who is this Michael Wirth

(01:12:51):
character that everyone seems toknow that I haven't met yet, and
I'm glad we were able to dothis.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:55):
Yeah, dude.
Thanks for having me.
Maybe one day my um traininglike a hero will amount to some
some cool thing, and you cantalk to me about that, but
helpful.
So take it easy.
Appreciate it, dude.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:08):
Have a good one.
All right, sweet.
This is Dad.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:11):
Well, what'd you guys think?
Oh man, want to give a big shoutout to Michael.
Uh, he's super appreciative ofhis time and uh yeah, what a fun
conversation.
Um, interesting cat, super funguy.
Um, guys, the best way you couldsupport him, give him a follow
on Instagram.
I'll also link his YouTube tothe show notes.
Um, but you could find him onInstagram at Michael Cworth.
You could also find him atMichael Worth uh in YouTube.

(01:13:33):
And like I said, just pan onover to the show notes, give him
a follow.
I'm sure he'd be superappreciative of that.
Uh, guys, if you enjoyed theepisode or if you've been
enjoying the podcast, um, if youwouldn't mind, give us a
five-star rating and review onApple, Spotify, YouTube, or
wherever you consume yourpodcast, that'd be amazing.
Um, we do ask that you guys giveus a review.
It's how we can continue to tellthese great stories, it's how we
can get more uh discoverability,whatever that is, and uh get

(01:13:56):
this podcast out to the world.
Very, very last but not least,um, if you enjoyed this episode,
please support our brainpartner, Ultimate Direction.
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Appreciate it, guys.

(01:14:16):
Thanks so much.