#145 - Coree Woltering

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What happens when a top ultrarunner steps behind the curtain and starts managing athletes, budgets, and contracts—while still chasing Western States dreams? We sat down with Coree Woltring for an unfiltered deep dive into the modern trail ecosystem: how sponsorships really get done, why timing matters, what brands value beyond results, and how the sport can better support its athletes.

Coree traces his arc from triathlon hopeful to crewing Leadville, to a breakout North Face contract sparked by a well-timed magazine article. Then the script flips. He explains life on both sides of the table at Merrell—shaping a roster that spans Skyrunner World Series, Western States, and UTMB—while guiding athletes through contract season, social expectations, and the art of the ask. If you’re wondering how to pitch a brand, whether to hire an agent, or how to stand out without selling out, Coree’s playbook is refreshingly clear: start early, know your value, and communicate like a pro.

We also tackle the money question head-on. From Broken Arrow’s big prize purse to the financial squeeze on golden ticket chasers, Corey lays out why meaningful prize money and smarter collaboration between races and brands would elevate competition and sustainability. And when injury forced a midyear reset, photography and storytelling filled the gap—leading to paid work with Cirque Series and a new creative lane that complements, rather than replaces, racing.

There’s plenty of forward look, too: Western States is back on Coree’s calendar, with Moab 240 and Cape Town in the mix, plus a sharp take on trail running’s Olympic prospects through sub-ultra formats. It’s a conversation for athletes, fans, and industry folks who care about performance, credibility, and the future of the sport. If this resonated, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review—then tell us what you’d fix first: contracts, prize money, or social expectations?

Follow Coree on IG - @coreewoltering

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James L'Oreal.
And today I'm so excited towelcome Corey Waltering to the
show.
Probably at this point a firstballot hall of famer on the
ultra scene.
Corey is definitely one of myfavorite thought leaders in the
sport as well as athletes.
He and I kind of go way back.
Uh, when I first got into thesport, Corey had some segments

(00:22):
in Florida that I had beenchasing.
So he was kind of like reallythe first like pro in the sport
that I had kind of learned aboutbefore I found out about Anton
and athletes like that, whichwas this was pretty cool.
Very special full circle momentfor me.
Uh, this conversation wasn'treally one about racing or
performance.
We talked about where Corey's atin the sport.
Uh, we talked about some of thethings that he still has left to

(00:42):
do before it's all said anddone.
Um, we talked about how close hehad come in the previous year to
retirement and the discussionabout retirement, where he's at
with that.
And then most importantly, wegot into his new role.
Um, Corey is both an athlete andthe athlete manager on the
Merrill team right now.
And we had a discussion aroundwhat it's like to be come from

(01:03):
an athlete perspective tobecoming an athlete manager.
Uh we talked about contractseason, dealing with agents, uh,
we talked about negotiation, um,all different kinds of stuff,
and including Merrill and kindof where they're at right now as
far as their brand strategy andwhat they're looking for in
athletes.
Corey was also kind enough togive a lot of uh just
information uh out there toathletes that might be

(01:25):
interested in trying to getsponsored and what they can do
to start those conversations andstand out and be a little bit
different.
Uh, like I said, Corey's one ofmy favorite humans in the sport,
super interesting guy, and Ijust really appreciate him for
uh being able to come on andhave this discussion.
So without further ado, I hopeyou guys get a lot of value out
of this one.
Corey Waltering.

(02:44):
Ladies and gentlemen, we allright, Corey Waltering.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going, man?

SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Hey, thanks for having me.
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I I I'm so excited to finally chat with you.
Dude, I I I kind of told youthis in the in the DMs, I was
fanboying a little bit.
But I was like, man, back in theday when I first got into the
sport in like 2019, 2020, like Ilived in South Florida and I was
going after these segments ofJonathan Dickinson State Park,
and you had most of them.
And uh you were like the firstlike professional trail runner
that I actually like kind oflike learned about on the scene,

(03:22):
which is kind of funny, besideslike uh stuff I'd seen on
YouTube of like Anton and uh ummaybe some of the Billy Yang
stuff, but like yeah, you wereone of the first like where it
was like it felt real a littlebit more chasing your segments
and stuff like that.
So it's kind of a full circlemoment, a little weird.

SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
Nice, that's awesome.
Yeah.
Uh Florida, Florida shockingly,has like a super great trail
running scene down there.

SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, man.
Have you been back in a while?
Like I I remember, I think I sawon Instagram a while ago you did
like the Ocean of Lake Trail andsome stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
Yeah, I went back uh last year, I guess it was, uh,
for the Dunes 50K in April.
And that was like one of myfirst 50Ks back, I don't know,
like 2016, maybe 2015.
So uh it was nice to go back.

SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Yeah, I'm gonna actually I'll beback next week, which is kind of
weird.
Not like too ready for thesunshine and the humidity, so
it'll be a little strange.
Freeze my I mean, you'refreezing your ass off too in
Maiden now.
I'm freezing my ass off inColorado, so here we are.

SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
Yeah, it's single digits right now.
Like single digits, wind chillof minus 15, minus 20.
It's brutal.

SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Oh my gosh.
How do you like living up there,by the way?

SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
I love it, but uh, you need to ask me that when I
haven't just been like on theroad for the last four months
because it is so cold right now.

SPEAKER_01 (04:42):
Yeah, oh I'm sure.
I'm sure.
I mean, like, I don't know.
I it uh the Northeast trailrunning scene, I think, is all
like just big time slept on, butjust from a place to live.
I was in Maine over the summerand I was astonished by it.
It's so beautiful.
Like the Northeast in general isawesome.
But um cool, man.
Well, why don't we I feel likemost of the audience probably
knows who you are, but maybegive me like the five-minute

(05:03):
elevator pitch.
I'm curious to hear like yourbackstory and how you got into
running and some stuff likethat.

SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Yeah, uh, I mean, I feel like most people get into
running when they are, you know,a kid and they just have too
much energy, and there you go.
Um and so uh running was alwaysa sport that I had to do for
other sports to stay in shape,get fit, all of the things.
And I mean, I was a baseballplayer, soccer player, swimmer,

(05:30):
ran track, cross-country, all ofthe things.
And I would show up late tobaseball practice because I
didn't enjoy doing drills earlyin practice.
But if you were late, then youhad to run.
So that was uh my little, oh, Iguess I'll run for 10 extra
minutes rather than do thedrills.
Um, but it was kind of wildbecause soccer is really my

(05:51):
passion, I guess, and uh had afew concussions in high school,
which ended up causing me to notplay soccer in college, and
instead ran cross-country andtrack and field for the school
that I was going to play soccerfor.
And it's kind of wild because itended up being a great thing.
Uh, I feel like had I pursuedsoccer, I probably wouldn't be

(06:12):
sitting here talking to you nowabout ultrarunning.
So uh I guess everything worksout, but uh yeah, just I don't
know.
It's I feel like that was 30years ago, which is really like
15.
Where did you where did you growup at?
Uh I grew up in a small town inIllinois and then went to a
small college in southernIllinois uh before finally

(06:35):
moving to Colorado for a littlebit to pursue some triathlon
goals after college and startedhanging out with mountain
bikers, trailer runners, whichthen turned into like, oh, you
should try this, and I did andkind of never looked back.

SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Wow.
Was there any like one race thatyou can point to for the trail
running scene that you're like,ah, this is like you heard about
Western states or hard rock orsomething to the degree of that,
and you're like, this this hasme really interested, or was it
more so just getting introducedto other people that were
participating in the sport andkind of learning through it that
way?

SPEAKER_00 (07:07):
Yeah, definitely uh learning through people that
were in the sport.
So it was funny.
So when I was hanging out withthe mountain bikers and trailer
runners, um, one of them waslike, hey, you know, like I need
crew and pacers for Leadville100, and I was just like, I
don't even know what that is.
Like, what do you mean,Leadville 100?
And he's like, it's a foot race,and like, so you're gonna run a

(07:29):
hundred miles like on foot.
It's like, okay, where is it?
And he's like, Leadville.
I had no idea that Leadville iseven a place in Colorado.
So, like, my mind, it was justopening up this completely new
world to me.
So I ended up going and crewingand pacing Leadville uh as like
my first introduction to trailracing.
And I think that's when I kindof fell in love with the sport

(07:52):
because uh back then you couldstill have pacers going over
Hope Pass, uh, or coming backover Hope Pass, I guess it was.
And so that I got to pace uhfrom Winfield back to Twin
Lakes, and just absolutely lovedit.

unknown (08:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
All right, so so how paint the picture for me?
Because like this is somethinglike ultra sign up or like
results doesn't paint.
Like, what was your ascent likein the sport?
Like, how did you I know likeone of your first sponsors, like
the big, big sponsors were likeTNF, and I'm sure that was like
life-changing and like a wholelike big thing for you, like
when that did come about.
How did you get to that point?
Like, when did you realize likeI'm pretty good at this, I'm

(08:28):
gonna compete at it, and thenhow did like sponsors start
first start coming knocking foryou?

SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
Yeah, uh, that's a great question.
So I don't know, it's all it wasall kind of rapid, I guess, to
be completely honest, because Iuh in college qualified for the
Half Iron Man WorldChampionships twice.
So uh I was dead set on tryingto become a professional
triathlete, which is why I movedfrom Illinois to Boulder.

(08:54):
Um and it was like I thinkthat's what I really wanted to
do at the time.
But you know, when you starthanging out with the wrong
people that encourage you to dobad things like run an ultra,
um, life can change.
And so uh I had never when Imoved to Colorado, I still had
never run a marathon at thatpoint.

(09:14):
Like my longest run, I think,was maybe 16 miles.
Um, but I was used to having torun a half marathon at the end
of a half Iron Man.
So it's not like it wascompletely foreign to me to be
moving for that long, but neverjust like running, running.
So uh I ran my first marathon,the Quad Cities Marathon, which
is on the border of Illinois andIowa, and it was super fun.

(09:37):
Uh I ran 237 for my firstattempt at the marathon, and it
was like, oh, this this might besomething that I should put a
little more effort into.
So I ran 237 in September, andthen in November went to uh
Southern California, did theMalibu Canyon 50K.
It was a two-loop course, like7,000 feet of gain, and ended up

(10:01):
finishing third there andenjoyed it.
It was fun, suffered a lot,learned a lot, and then I got
mono, and so that took me outfor most of the winter.
And then my next ultra back wasuh Silver Rush 50 up in
Leadville, because after crewingand pacing Leadville, I was just

(10:21):
so obsessed with it that Isigned up and finished fourth at
Silver Rush and missed thepodium by 52 seconds.
And so at that point, I waslike, I'm just gonna quit the
sport and go back to triathlon.
And everyone's like, no, no, no,no.
Like, fourth is really good atSilver Rush, and like, no, but I
missed the podium by 52 seconds.
They were like, no, no, no, likeyou don't understand.

(10:44):
So from that, I got picked up byuh a company called Down to Run
out of Florida, which they dolike the Dunes 50K, they have
the Dunes 100 Miler.
Uh, got picked up by them for acouple of years, and in that, I
ended up uh getting signed byInnovate as like my first bigger
sponsor, and they were tryingto, you know, bring back a US

(11:06):
team and whatnot.
So I was on that team for twoyears, uh, signed with Rabbit as
well.
And uh it was my second year onthe team, and it was just funny
because I'm I'd moved back toIllinois at that point, and just
doing a lot of like smaller 50kraces, but then flying out to

(11:28):
California for some biggerstuff, and didn't really have a
pulse on, you know, trailrunning or how to get sponsored
and whatnot, but I was justdoing things that seemed fun.
And then Trail Runner magazinewanted to do an article, and
they're just like, what's itlike being black and gay in the
sport?
And for me, as like, honestly,there are more important things

(11:48):
for me to talk about right now.
I'm like, why is there nosponsorship for uh professional
runners that live east of theMississippi?
Like, why are we just completelyforgetting about, you know, half
of the country when some of theoldest ultras in the country are
east of the Mississippi?
And it was just so funny becausethey're like, we've never
thought about this before.
And so instead of doing thearticle that they wanted to, I

(12:11):
just completely flipped it andmade it my own article.
And the day that the articlecame out, uh, I got a message
from the athlete manager at theNorth Face, and they're like,
Hey, we want to sign you.
Wow.
And so, um, so it was just funnybecause I mean I had just been
like doing my own thing andgrinding away for the past
couple of years, and thenfinally it just took like one

(12:33):
magazine article of justcompletely taking control of
what I wanted to talk about, andthat's where like the North Face
came knocking.

SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
What was it life-changing for you in any
way?
Like you go from being the skykind of like on the fringe of
the scene, and then this bigarticle comes out, and then
you're you're in the scene atthat point.
Like I North Face has, I mean,some of the best trailrunners in
the world always has aconsistent roster of the best
and uh just amazing athletes ingeneral.
Like, how how did that changethings for you, especially at

(13:01):
that time in your life?

SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah, it was pretty wild because here I am just like
I deleted the first emailbecause I just thought it was
spam.
I was like, there's no way thatMaeve from the North Face is
emailing me, so I was just like,I'm gonna delete it.
Uh so then she emailed me again,and it was funny because she's
like, hey, you know, like Iemailed you once, like, this is
real, please like get a hold ofme.
And I'm just thinking, there'sstill no way.

(13:23):
But anyway, there I took a phonecall, and sure enough, it was
real.
It's like, oh, I'm going to be aTNF athlete next year.
Amazing.
So uh my next race was SilverRush 50 Mile, and like
Kristenuki was there, Rob Krar,a few other people, and I ended
up finishing second to Rob, andlike he beat me by like two and

(13:44):
a half minutes or something thatyear.
And that's when people are like,oh, you're not just like the
dude that's running around in aspeedo, but like you're a legit
athlete.
And so uh it was all kind ofvalidating, but at the same
time, it's like, oh, I'mactually gonna make some money
at this now, and I have thefunds and the means to go do
bigger things, and uh it it wasuh it was great.

SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
Back in those early days, like was it immediate to
where like, okay, I have to, andyou can go and you don't have to
go into super detail on this,like, but like my question more
so is was it immediately knownthat like okay, I can make a
living at this or I have to worka second job and try to keep
things like a balanced that way?
Like, how did you kind ofapproach it from a professional
perspective?

SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yeah, uh, you know, I think that's always the hard
part because it's it's one ofthose things where sponsors
maybe want results at biggerraces and bigger events, but at
the same time, the bigger thingsare usually more expensive.
There's travel or internationaltravel involved.
There would be, you know, justthe time that it takes to get to

(14:48):
some of these places.
And if you really want to dowell, sometimes you have to go
over two or three weeks earlyand uh see the course and all
that.
And so, like for me, I had noidea what I was getting myself
into.
Uh, I don't know that I everthought that I'd make like real
money doing it.
Uh, I knew that it was gonnaopen up opportunities to race
some really cool places and gosome fun places.

(15:10):
But uh, I don't know, I just hadto keep approaching it like I I
want to have fun and enjoy whatI'm doing, and the day that it's
not fun anymore is probably thetime that I have to step away
from the sport.
Um and thankfully it's usuallybeen fun, but I've always
stayed.
Uh but yeah, it's I don't know,it's really hard in those early

(15:33):
years to figure out uh what themost important thing is because
um like back then, like 2016,17, 18, uh social media was kind
of a thing, but it wasn't, youknow, such a big thing.
And so just finding that balanceof legit athlete still being
able to get content, andhonestly, like, do I spend X

(15:56):
amount going to this place orthis race knowing that there's a
chance that I may not make anymoney on it at all?

SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Yeah.
Wow.
Now I I know this is kind of aquestion that's maybe separate
from money, but morecareer-oriented in the sense
where when you first got intothis, I mean, outside of like I
don't even know if you can likelook at Rob, like maybe like
Anton and a few others like hadlike a tangible, like they'd
been in this thing for a whileand it was gonna be like a
standalone thing in their lifefor a long period of time.

(16:24):
Did you think this was justgonna be, oh, I'll do this for a
couple of years?
I know this might be sound alittle redundant from the first
question, but I kind of wantedto get in your head and
understand a little bit moreabout longevity and because
you've been in the sport for along time.
Like, did you ever look at itlike or was start to look at it
at any point in time, like, oh,this is gonna be a career of
mine?

SPEAKER_00 (16:40):
Yeah, I think uh early on I just wanted to have
fun and do the things that werecompetitive and just go out and
see what I could do.
And I don't know that I reallythought of it as like this is
what I'm going to do, justbecause, you know, as you're
saying, it's like there weren'tvery many people that that's
what they were just able to do.
Um, and so, and like at thetime, I mean, looking back on

(17:04):
when I really got into thesport, it's like Jim Walmsley
and the Cocanino Cowboys, theywere all just starting out, like
Courtney DeWalter had maybe runan ultra or something bigger,
like by the time that I was kindof in it.
But like, um, so like it's wildto think that I've been doing
this as long as them or a littlebit longer than some of them,

(17:24):
you know?
And um I don't know that any ofus got into it just thinking
this is this is going to be whatwe do, because I don't know that
uh like people aren't super openabout contracts and lengths of
contracts and like the amount ofmoney that you could or could
not make and all of thosethings.
And so it was just really hardto figure it out, but you just
kind of went with it and didwhat you could.

(17:45):
Uh, but I think it was probablyyear three or so on the TNF team
when I realized, like, oh, likemaybe this is what I could do.

SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
Yeah.
Let's talk about racing.
I I find this interestingbecause like you, I mean, did
you look at your ultra sign up?
Like, you've been you've beendoing this for for a while and
you've raced a ton.
Like, how has that played likeas far as um just like longevity
on the body?
Like, how has the body held upover the years?
How have you been able to likerecover and and still do these
things?

(18:15):
Because I look at your body ofwork and the things that you've
done.
I'm just like, dude, like, thisis very impressive.
Like, I don't think I could evermy body would never hold up like
that.

SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
Yeah, it's uh it's a very fine line of uh figuring
out what your key targets forthe year are going to be and
what you're gonna go all in on,and then the other things that
you just kind of do for fun.
Um this year has been just avery tough year on me, to be
completely honest.
Uh it's funny, my physicaltherapist is like, well, as we

(18:46):
age, we don't we don't recoveras faster.
And it's just like, who is hetalking about as we age?
Because like I'm not gettingolder.
Oh wait, I am 35 now.
And there are certain days that35 feels like 70, and there are
still moments where 35 feelslike 20.
And so I just I pick things thatare fun, that are exciting,

(19:09):
knock out the qualifiers that Ineed for, you know, West Stream
states, hard rock, UTMB, thosetypes of things, and then
honestly just have fun with itnow.
But uh, I don't think my bodyhas held up super well this
year.
And in the past, I've alwaysbeen very good about shutting
things down if there's somethingthat hurts, if there's an
injury, or whatever.

(19:29):
But this year I've just beentrying to push through things
because to be like 100% honest,I thought I was gonna try to
retire from the sport after thisyear.
And so I was like, well, mightas well go big and do all the
things that I haven't done yet.
And that ended up uh me takinglike two months completely off
running this summer, and uh nowI I don't know, I'm I I actually

(19:54):
feel refreshed and uh likedefinitely put on weight and did
not.
You know, wasn't able to run fora while, but like I actually
feel good again.
So now it's like, oh, I can Ican actually try to be
competitive again next year, andI'm not retiring anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Ooh, let's let's talk about this retirement.
Like, what what got in your headabout that as far as like
because I I find it reallyinteresting in our sport.
Like we're we're finallyprofessional professionalizing
to the point where likeretirement is kind of an
official thing more.
Like Eric Sentzman did it awhile back, and as uh it used to
be where if you're just notsponsored anymore, you kind of
just fall off and nobody hearsfrom you again.

(20:30):
And it's kind of sad.
Um, but I like the idea of likein the sense where there is a
retirement.
There's a there's a during,there's a before, and then
there's an after.
Uh talk about that, like whatwas going through like mental
process-wise for you.

SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Totally.
It's it's wild because uh to beit's like the mental process for
me was basically like uh I havenot taken a an extended period
of time off, um, literally atany point during my ultra
career, or even during mytriathlon career, or college

(21:03):
sports, high school sports,junior high sports.
And so I'm 35 and I don'tremember the last summer that
I've ever just been like, I'mnot training for something and I
can do whatever I want.
And so when I was finallyinjured this summer is like, oh,
this is the perfect exit.
Like, I actually can't do thesport that I get paid to do.

(21:25):
And so if I just don't come backfrom this, that's okay, and
there are other things outthere.
Um, but then it's really funnybecause I started thinking more
about it.
I'm like, well, actually,retirement for me more looks
like I run a super hard 100-milerace every other year that still
gets me my hard rock and my uhwestern states qualifier.

(21:48):
And then on the down year, Ijust run like a hundred K that
gets me my Western Statesqualifier to keep putting my
name in the lottery.
And then from there, it's like Ispend half of the year and I
just run, you know, 30 to 60minutes a day and enjoy running,
drink all the coffee, do all thefun things, and then, you know,
you have like four months of theyear that you train hard for

(22:09):
something, and there you go.
And so that's what retirementwould look like for me.
Um, but I was just very muchready for that this summer, and
I think it was just I packed somuch into the first half of the
year that instead of justsaying, I would like to take a
break from this for a hotsecond, uh, it just took being
injured.

SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
It's a weird thing.
Like, do have you thought aboutlike, all right, so yours is a
little bit different where likeyou would still run and do
things.
Like, I've thought about likewhat I would do if I didn't do
the sport, and I think I wouldlose my mind because like if
running just wasn't a thingtomorrow, I'd have to go find
something else to be obsessedwith.
It's a little weird.
It's a hard, it's a hard thingto tussle with.
Like, I don't know, do you Idon't maybe you can elaborate
more on this.

(22:48):
Like, do you find it as like anidentity for you or is it
separate from your identity?

SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
Uh I would say separate.
So like during the during thetwo months or so that I didn't
run, uh, it was actually reallyfunny because I started to take
the kay out a lot more.
And I'm like, oh, this isactually really fun, which is
funny because I've done someadventure racing, and so it's
like it's not like kayaking isforeign to me, but I just never

(23:14):
made the time for it.
Um also got a gravel bike andabsolutely love riding that
thing and um picked upphotography last year and so had
a lot more time to just like goout and be in nature and take
photos of things and not havethe stress or the pressure of
like going out and doing a fiveor six hour training run.
And so it was weird because uh Iwas just like, yeah, I could

(23:38):
totally just be done withrunning.
And then I thought about it'slike, no, I actually missed it
after like two months.
But uh I missed it to the pointthat running 30 minutes a day
when I finally was done, like,shouldn't say done being
injured, but when I was able torun again, running 30 minutes a
day was like the sweet spot.
And then after a few weeks ofthat, it's like, oh, an hour a
day is still the sweet spot, Iguess.

(24:00):
But um, I wasn't super quick tocome back to just like this is
the training regiment, here wego.
Uh, didn't want to do anythingtoo intense.
Um, and so I don't know.
It's I enjoy running, I love it,it's fun.
It has taken me literally allover the world to some of the

(24:20):
most amazing places.
But uh, if I couldn't runtomorrow, I think I'd be okay.

SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
Wow.
That's inter that's sointeresting to me.
How how do you view things likecompetitively now?
Because you've been socompetitive over the years,
you've had some amazing finishesand performances.
Is there something you stillhave left to do before it's all
said and done?
Or is it more goal like is it adifferent goal-oriented?

SPEAKER_00 (24:44):
Uh I would say a lot of the stuff that I do is
definitely differentgoal-oriented now.
Um I I enjoy community events, Ienjoy being able to do things
with friends, with other people.
Um the still equally as intense,but just, you know, not
necessarily in a race setting.

(25:05):
Um, but still like to pushmyself that way.
But um, I don't know.
I just got back into Westernstates uh for the third time,
and so uh it was really funnybecause I'm like, oh yeah, I'm
not gonna race anything longnext year.
I'm only gonna race like 50kmax.
Wanna do like half marathon,marathon, here we go.

(25:25):
And then I get back into Westernstates and it's like, all right,
I have one more week of thinkingthat I'm only gonna do short
stuff, but really I'm going allin on states again.
And uh I'm very excited to seewhat that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 (25:36):
Oh, dude, I'm excited for you.
Congratulations on getting backin again.
I mean, that's that's so it's uhit's not easy to get into that
race.

SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
Nope.
So yeah, thanks.
Third time's a charm.

SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
Yeah, that's right.
Will there will you be in aspeedo this time around or no?

SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Hmm, I don't know.
That's a good question.
We'll have to wait until nextday.

SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
All right, let's pivot a little bit.
I want to talk about your rolewith Merrill as um so are it are
you athlete manager, or what areyou specifically doing on the
athlete team with Merrill?

SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
Yeah, so technically I'm still an athlete, but I am
also managing the athlete team,um, which is just uh very
interesting because we just uhwe had an athlete manager for
the first like three months thatI was on the team last year, and
then she left, and the positionjust never really got filled.
And so we had Ben that's insports uh trailer and marketing,

(26:31):
was kind of I mean not kind of,he was managing the team, but it
was just uh a lot of extraduties for him that you know
wasn't part of his initial jobdescription, and so that's where
I kind of stepped in and I'mhelping out with that now and uh
figuring things out as we go.

SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Oh wow.
So you're building the planewhile you're flying though.
Talk about that a little bit.
Like like as far as the dutiesgo, I I mean uh it's I I think I
find it really cool because Ilove seeing like your back most
athlete managers or a lot ofthem don't really come from the
athletic side.
They're not at least like theprofessional athlete side.

(27:10):
So it's cool to be an athleteand then see the complete other
side of it as well.
Um talk about that a little bitand and how you like the duties
and and kind of what you've beendoing with them.

SPEAKER_00 (27:20):
Yeah, it's pretty wild because uh I now understand
why certain things take a weekto happen and other things take
six months or nine months.
And uh I think that it'ssomething that if you are coming
from a competitive athletebackground and kind of stepping

(27:40):
into that role, then I thinkthat it's a super valuable
position because um, like as yousaid, you know, a lot of people
that work for some of thesebigger brands, they maybe got
their business degree or theirmarketing degree or whatever,
but maybe haven't been in, youknow, the trail run sport or
just, you know, maybe evenrunning in general.
And so uh there are a lot ofthings that kind of look good on

(28:03):
paper that don't necessarilyalways translate well to like
actually the what the reality ofit is.
And the and so like being ableto like help shape uh what the
athlete team should mean to abrand and like talk with
corporate about that is prettyexciting.
And then like the flip side ofthat is uh I now have a lot more

(28:24):
information that I can just passon to the athletes.
And uh there are certain timeswhere it's like, hey, you know,
I I know that this would besuper beneficial for you, but
like we can't do that right now.
But can we revisit this in acouple months?
Or there are other things whereif they're requesting something,
it's like, oh yeah, that totallymakes sense.
Let me take that to my higherups and see what I can do.
And uh it's I would say it's alot of just trying to help both

(28:51):
sides understand each other.

SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Interesting.
Do you do you like it?
Do you do you like being thatthat middle man?

SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
I do, I love it.
Um, although it is stillcontract season right now, and
so this is like like I'vealready my contracts, I've
always negotiated them myself.
There you go, pretty simple.
Uh I know how to ask for thingsand get things, and so all good.
Uh, but contract season rightnow has just been absolutely
wild.
And so uh I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
Yeah, you don't have to go into detail.
Do you uh one thing I do have toask you, is it a pain in the ass
dealing with agents on the otherside?
That's that's gotta be questionnumber one.

SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
Uh, you know, most agents uh that I've had to work
with have been great.
And sometimes, you know, it'sjust been you know, being able
to say, like, hey, you know, Iabsolutely think that the person
that you're trying to get me tosign is a wonderful person, but
maybe they're just not the fitright fit right now, um, or just
things like that.
But like the agents that I'vebeen talking to have been super

(29:51):
lucky where um we've all justbeen like, hey, you know, like
this is either working or it'snot, and you know, just let's
keep this line of communicationopen because uh, you know,
things are always up in the airand things can change, and uh
you don't really want to burnany of those bridges.
Um but it's also like from theathlete side of things, the

(30:12):
athletes that are using agents,I totally get why they're doing
it.
It's way less stress for theathlete.
But um, like personally, I wouldrather pay an athlete directly
than pay an agent who then paysthe athlete.
So if you're a solid negotiator,um like I'm always open to talk
to athletes.
Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
I like I I see, I think there's I don't know, this
is a really interesting topicbecause as the sport
professionalizes and grows, moreagents come into the sport.
I I think the agents in a lot ofways are an amazing thing, but
also I could see as far as thenegotiation side, I think the
number one question though islike athletes knowing their
worth and then having thatconversation.
I think it's a difficultconversation to have.

(30:52):
And then even knowing, like,okay, I'm worth X amount, and
then being able to conversatethat with you, it's gotta be a
difficult conversation to have,no?

SPEAKER_00 (31:00):
Totally.
It's a very difficultconversation to have.
And, you know, I think thatthere are some athletes that are
really good at just pitchingthemselves, and there you go,
and then there are some athletesthat absolutely suck at it.
And um and it's and it's justit's so wild to me because uh
contracts are so like underwraps where you're not supposed

(31:21):
to talk about with your contractto like teammates other people
and what you're making and allthat.
But like there's more and moreinformation that's coming out
where it's like you kind of knowwhat people are making, or at
least what you think you youthink you know what they're
making.
And it's I don't know, like justyou don't get what you don't ask
for.
So I mean, ask for it.

(31:43):
Like if the brand says no,that's okay, but then take what
you just said and repackage itand pitch it a different way.
And so, yes, it sucks to have todo that multiple times at times,
but uh if you stick to it, it'sworth it.
I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
I got a question more strategy related with the
brand itself, and maybe you cananswer this, maybe not.
One one of the things I'vereally enjoyed about Merrill and
really liked is you know,there's always been that heavy
investment and strong emphasison the World Skyrunner series
and short trail.
But on the flip side, too,there's investment and long
trail.
There are athletes likeyourself, Reed, and others.
What is the this I guess thestrategy going forward?

(32:20):
Like, is it continued to be kindof you know, looking at both
sides of the sport, short trailand long trail?
Is there gonna be more of anemphasis on one side versus the
other?
Like, is there anything youcould share as far as that goes,
maybe going forward?

SPEAKER_00 (32:33):
For sure.
Um, yep.
So the brand uh definitely justthey love the Skyrunner World
Series, and that's great.
Uh we uh I would say that forthe next couple of years there
will be kind of a big, biggeremphasis on that.
Um, you know, Europe isdefinitely big into it because I

(32:54):
mean a lot of the sky races areover there, but uh from the US
side of things, we'll beinterested in that as well.
But right now, I think thatwhere we're kind of lacking is
just um having athletes at likea Western States, a UTMB.
And so um it's great that wefocus on the Skyrunner stuff,
but I'm also trying to getpeople that are just even a

(33:16):
looking to be at Western statesor UTMB, and then from there
it's like building on peoplethat I think have, you know,
that top 10 potential um justbecause skyrunning is great, but
is skyrunning, you know,something that most of the
general public and most trailrunners are actually going to
do?

(33:36):
Uh probably not.
And so with that, um, if you'retrying to be relevant and
relatable, like you need toactually have, you know, people
doing things that get some eyeson it, that is your kind of
target market.
Um, but that's not to say that,you know, like a golden trail
world series isn't excitingbecause I mean the Golden Trail

(33:58):
World series was streamed onHBO, which I had no idea until
the final.
And so it's like, oh, likethere's there's still plenty of
just great stuff happening inshorter trail as well.
And you know, I think it's justimportant to be a well-rounded
team.
Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
What is it like being a talent scout and like
picking it?
Like, are you like in the weedtrying to figure out like who's
who?
Are you or are you more so likeyou've got to be inundated,
people coming to you all thetime asking you for like, hey,
Corey, sponsor me?
Um what is it like like havingto one, say no to a lot of
people, obviously, and have thatdifficult conversation, but also
be looking for ah, that person'sgot it.

(34:36):
That person's got what I'mlooking for.
Like, is it difficult to findthat particular brand fit, if
you will?

SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Totally.
It's uh I I'm scared to open upInstagram or my email right now
because like every day there'sprobably three to five people
that are like, hey, you know,like I love Merrill, my first
hiking boots are Merrill, andnow I'm trying to, you know, run
for you guys.
What can I do?
Or are you looking for people?

(35:02):
It's like, uh, well, most ofthese conversations started back
in June and July.
So like that's one thing.
Like, if you're if you'relooking to get sponsored, start
looking early.
Um, and you know, I'm doing someof the scouting for it.
Thankfully, being in the sportfor a very long time, I have a
pretty good idea of like who I'dlike on the team and who uh who

(35:23):
would be able to help us out.
But then, you know, I get a lotof suggestions from uh the
athletes that we're currentlyworking with.
They are always sending peoplemy way.
And it's there have been a tonof good options.
It's all just been so late inthe season that's like, hey, you
know, like budgets for next yearare pretty much set.
And so um, yeah, start early.

SPEAKER_01 (35:45):
Interesting.
Oh, I gotta ask you this,because this is something I've
always been weird about.
Um how do you feel?
Like, are you open to like whenathletes on your team are
sending you people?
Because like I always feelweird.
I'm like, oh, if I want toforward someone like the higher
ups in Sportiva and like like,oh, I really recommend this
athlete, I want to make surelike that is a super ironclad
person that's like a very goodbrand fit.

(36:07):
Because I don't want to beinundating like someone in your
role with um you know, withrecommendations.

SPEAKER_00 (36:14):
Totally.
No, I I absolutely love whenpeople send a recommendation
just because uh, you know,they're I live way up in Maine,
so I'm like pr I mean, I shouldpretty much be Canada.
And so like with that, I'm sofar away from a lot of other
things that are going on thatyou know, I'm not seeing what's
happening in these group runs inBoulder.

(36:34):
I'm not seeing what's going ondown in Phoenix at like Aravipa
stuff all the time.
And so uh there are definitely alot of options uh or
opportunities for you know ourcurrent athletes or even just
people in like the generalpublic that are like, hey, you
know, I don't know if you sawthis race result from XYZ, but
this person's put together asuper solid like three-year run
of things and they're finallyabout to break out.

(36:56):
Like, maybe you should look intothem.
And so uh I absolutely lovesuggestions from people, but
then at the same time, it'srealizing that um, you know, it
would be nice to sign everybody,but realistically, there's maybe
one to three people that aregonna get signed a year.

SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
Yeah.
I mean, it's especially for ateam like that size, as far as
that goes, and scalability andstuff like that.
Yeah, it's dude, and thislandscape has gotten crazy.
I feel like this year more thanever, I'd probably say maybe
last year, this year has thefeel like this sport has gotten
not just significantly morecompetitive, but there's way
more people in it.
It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (37:31):
Absolutely.
And that's that is the hardestpart right now, just because I
mean, literally any directionyou turn, it's like, oh, this
person is just like 15th at theWorld Championships.
Oh, this person just ran a 214marathon, like, oh, this person
had never done a sky race beforeand finished fourth and stuff.
It's like these people are justpopping up literally everywhere.

(37:55):
And so the options are kind ofendless.

SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
Yeah.
Yes.
What what's your take on thesport now?
Like as far as now getting tosee it from both sides, a the
brand side, and B, the athleteside.
Like, I guess the evolution thatyou've seen since what, 2015,
2016 when you got in the sportto now, are are you happy with
where the sport is and whereit's going, or do you think
there's some course correctionwe need?

SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
Yeah, I think uh I think that for a while the sport
got uh maybe a little tooinfluencer heavy.
Um, and so uh, I mean,influencers are a great thing,
and you know, an influencerdoesn't have to be a bad thing.
Like there are people that areOlympians that are now getting
into trail running, and somewould say they're influencers,

(38:39):
and but they're also likecompetitive.
And so like there's there's fora while there's just a lot of
sponsorship money that mighthave been going to uh maybe the
more not necessarily mostcompetitive influencers, and
like that can be frustrating asan athlete that's put in, you
know, the time and the effort tobe a competitive person that

(39:00):
should be on a team, but then toget passed up for someone that,
you know, just has a biggersocial media following.
And so I think that for a whilethe sport was kind of going that
direction, but I think it's verymuch coming back to like brands
now have a budget forinfluencers to do what they want
to do with the influencers forproduct launches and
activations, whatever, but thenthey still have you know a core

(39:22):
athlete team.
And so I think we're in theright direction.

SPEAKER_01 (39:25):
Ooh.
I don't know if you can answerthis, but like do you guys have
a social media requirement?
The only reason I ask that isbecause like there's a lot of
brands that still have it, havesocial media requirements for
their athletes.

SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
Yeah, for sure.
So we do.
Um, it's not much at all.
And so, I mean, it's if there'ssomething that you're doing
that's relevant to Merrill,which I mean most things that
you're doing are, because Imean, we have, you know, our
trailer run footwear, but wealso have lifestyle and we have
winter boots and we haveliterally everything.
So I mean, it's really not thathard to get a photo of you doing

(39:59):
something in Merrill.
And post it to a story, and likewe're pretty happy with that.
Um, the bigger time that we willuse like our athletes for social
media type stuff is um is likemonthly, we kind of have a
different product that we'rekind of focused on, and we're
never just gonna be like, hey,you have to post about XYZ, but

(40:20):
we do just say, like, hey, ofthese three to five shoes that
are kind of a focus for us thismonth, is there one that you
use?
And if so, can you please postabout it?
Um and so that's like our socialmedia requirement.
It's very little.

SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
Interesting.
The only reason I ask is becauselike you've got a couple members
on the team that are like reallygood at it.
Like social, like RachelTemaichak has an amazing social,
and same with Mercedes, anotherone who has a really good, like
they're very good with theirsocial media game, and they're
good at can I think like I'd sayRachel more than anyone is like
so good at conveying what she'sdoing and sharing her story.
Does an amazing job at that.

SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
Totally, absolutely.
Rachel's like amazing at that.
And so, um, like, and that'sthat's a wonderful thing because
you know it helps her build herbrand, but like it also very
much helps Meryl.
Um, and so um, yes, I would sayif you are trying to figure out
social media and like what todo, like look at Rachel, and

(41:19):
maybe you don't have to doeverything that she does, but I
mean she's very good at what shedoes.

SPEAKER_01 (41:23):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
Yeah, it's it's an interestingthing, man.
I bring this up a lot on thepodcast.
Like, I'm always I I used to bevery big on poo-pooing on
influencers, and then I startedthinking about this because
someone brought it to myattention.
They're like, well, in theclimbing world, if you're a big
climbing voice or someone thathas a voice in the climbing
scene, generally you do, likeyou're more or less an
influencer.
Like you have your you have alarge audience, put it that way,

(41:46):
like as far as the social mediagoes.
And I find it to be a very likenuanced conversation around
trail running, where we've gotlike a group of very hardcore
athletes that are very muchoriented in performance, and I
would consider myself very muchunderstand like under that idea.
And then you have people thatare very much there's not many
in-between, is what I'm tryingto say.

(42:07):
Like your Rachel, who's veryperformance-oriented, but also
is very good in the social mediagame.
You seem to be one or the other,which is weird.

SPEAKER_00 (42:14):
Yeah, for sure.
And um, you know, I think Ithink it's very much one of
those things where if you arewinning all of the bigger
things, you don't have to begood at social media.
Um, like if you're like theCourtney, the Jim, the Katie,

(42:36):
like any of those people, youreally don't have to be good at
social media because you'regetting enough media content,
whether it's the brand doing itfor you, the race you're going
to, or whatever, like you'regetting enough content there
that it's like, cool.
Like all they have to do is, youknow, do a collab request on
Instagram, and boom, you're onthat page, and there you go.
Um and so like it's it's one ofthose things where they're

(43:01):
focused on performance and theyare like a hundred percent
focused on performance, and Ithink that's a great thing.
Um, but I think we're gonna seemore people that end up kind of
like in that in-between spacewhere it's like, especially as
contracts start to get maybe alittle bit bigger than they have
been in the past, it's like,sure, you're getting paid more,
but you're also expected toproduce more.
And so whether that's theresults or the social media and

(43:24):
just staying relevant, I thinkuh we're gonna kind of trend
that way a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
I like that.
I I I gotta ask the contractquestion, and by no means am I
asking for numbers, but just anidea.
Like, is there is it is it muchmore common now?
Because we a lot of numbers getthrown out, dude.
I'm sure you saw um a podcastrecently, they were talking
about athletes making 500 granda year, all these different
things.
My question is more is it muchmore common space for athletes

(43:49):
to be making a full-time livingin the sport now versus before?
Like is are you seeing thatmore?

SPEAKER_00 (43:56):
I would say I would say it's definitely a lot more
possible now than it has been inthe past.
And I think it's gonna continueto trend that way.
And um, I think brands are goingto have to kind of look at
athlete teams and be like, hey,do you wanna, you know, be the
team that sponsors, you know, aton of runners, but maybe

(44:19):
they're not making that much?
Or do you want to sponsor fewerrunners, but your athletes are
making a little bit more?
And so um, you know, whatapproach do you want to take to
that?
And I don't necessarily thinkthere's a right or a wrong
answer to it, but there aredefinitely plenty of brands that
have, you know, a lot ofathletes that don't get paid
that much.
And so um, you know, if you wantto be different, pay your

(44:41):
athletes more.

SPEAKER_01 (44:42):
I like that.
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonnatake a left-hand turn on this
one.
I'm so curious because you'vebeen in the sport for so long.
I've one bone I have to pickwith long trail versus short
trail is the prize money.
This is something I actuallybrought up on Instagram the
other day.
And I've been thinking a lotabout this because I think about
from a contract perspective.
If I do good at a race, right,I'll get a race bonus.
Let's just say, I don't know,Cirque series or something like

(45:03):
that.
I don't know.
Um one of the things I've alwaysbeen frustrated with, I think
it's good.
I'm very athlete first.
I think athletes should bemaking the bag, dude.
I I mean it's a finite life likelife anyway.
It doesn't last very long.
When you're doing it, I hope youmake a ton of money doing it.
But one of the things I'vealways had a gripe with is I
feel like races have alwaysrelied on brands to subsidize

(45:25):
race bonus, like raceperformance bonuses to subsidize
prize money.
And that's always driven menuts.
Do you have more information onthis?
Like I know like Western Statesis a nonprofit, they say that's
why they don't do prize money,hard rock is a more community
thing, don't do prize money, buta lot of races don't do prize
money.
Uh what what is your what's yourtake on this?

SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
Yeah, it's kind of wild to me because um, you know,
some contracts have performancebonuses written into them, some
don't.
Um and so it's it's just wild tome that you would like UTMB has
prize money now.
Um and I think it's decent.
I don't know, I haven't reallylooked at it.
Um, but it's one of those thingswhere when people say, you know,

(46:09):
oh, like this such and such racewasn't super competitive anymore
or whatever, it's like, okay,but like if there are races that
are paying athletes to be onthose start lines, like if
there's the opportunity to win,you know, prize money, then I
would think that a competitiveathlete would probably choose
that over something that maybedoesn't have the prize money.
And I think if brands and raceswere better at, you know, just

(46:34):
like talking and collaboratingon things, there's kind of a
perfect world where brands wouldbe, I mean, I know that brands
sponsor races as well, but likeif UTMB, for example, if there
were five major brands that wereall like, we gonna kick in
$20,000 each, all of a sudden,like that makes the prize purse
a lot bigger and it's stillgetting exposure for their

(46:57):
athletes, it's gonna set up acompetitive race.
And so I don't know.
I just I think that there arebetter ways of doing it, other
than just being like, oh yeah,hopefully the athlete does well,
and maybe they get a little bitof a bonus from a brand, and oh,
they got a couple thousand fromyou know winning a race.
When it's like, but the amountof work that goes into being
able to win that race is worthway more than that uh, you know,

(47:20):
bonus.

SPEAKER_01 (47:20):
Yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
It's funny because like, I don'tknow, there's there's two sides
of this too.
The other side of it, and Ithink of this as like a from a
golden uh ticket perspective,right?
So like let's say you'resomebody like Will Murray, you
go and and you get yourself agolden ticket, you're not a
sponsored athlete, maybe by likea nutrition company, but you
it's not like you're running forMerrill or Adidas or someone
like that.
So you're probably not getting aperformance bonus, definitely

(47:43):
not, and there's no prize moneyfor you.
But like the body of work youjust put together, in my
opinion, and this is just myopinion, it's probably worth at
least 50 grand.
Like you should be getting asizable payout for getting a
golden ticket or for winning arace like that in today's day
and age of sport.
Dude, say we're in Westernstates.
If we win western states, I Ithink that should be$100,000,
like or something close to that,um, just because of how

(48:04):
competitive it is, the amount ofwork that goes into it.
And it, I don't know.
The reason it struck a nervewith me is because Broken Arrow
just this past week announced ahundred and sixty thousand
dollar prize purse.
If I go win the 23K, it it's$30,000 for the first male,
first women.
And it's like I think that'sfair for an hour and a half
worth of work, that's not bad.

(48:24):
$30,000.
You know, whereas like in theultra scene, there's a lot
you're putting 40, 30, 40 hoursa week into this, not just
running, but all the accessorywork, everything for recovery.
It's a lot of work, dude.
Um, so yeah, I don't know.
That's been a big gripe of minethat I think they're they need
to revisit the prize moneysituation and they should do it
soon, sooner rather than later,as the sport continues to grow.

SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
Totally, absolutely.
And yeah, broken arrow, theirtheir prize money that they just
put out, like that's absolutelynuts.
And I mean, it's amazing to see,um, but it's wild.
And so, um, I don't know, andsame with Will.
I mean, to think about Will.
So not only that, it's like theamount of training that went
into that to get a goldenticket, and then, you know, the

(49:08):
travel out there, getting yourcrew out there, all that stuff,
however much that costs, it's alot.
Um, and then it's like, oh, getthe golden ticket, great.
Well, Western states costs 600bucks to register for, um,
because it's not a free entry,he still has to pay his entry.
Um, and then to think that ifyou want to go out there, bring
like a couple person crew, andthen all of a sudden it's like

(49:29):
trying to find a house in likethe Tahoe area to have your
whole crew out there and allthat, like it's a really
expensive weekend.
And it's like if you're notsponsored, it's not super
sustainable.

SPEAKER_01 (49:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, not super sustainable.
And like you said, like you cando that, yeah, you do that once,
but that's like there goes yourvacation for a year.
If you're working a full-timejob, like there's all your PTO,
getting ready for that, goingout to that gaming.
And then it's like, all right,well, the sport demands you to
perform there.
And if you want to be sponsored,or if you want to be at the top
of the sport, you can't justperform there, you have to

(50:02):
perform at other places too.
So the financial pool issubstantial for a for a sport
that really used to be sosimple.
It's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (50:11):
Totally.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
There but I don't know.
I feel like Will will probablyget picked up by somebody.

SPEAKER_01 (50:18):
So yeah, definitely, definitely.
He seems to be the media likeshim, people like him.
I think it, yeah, no doubt, Iwouldn't be surprised.
Um switch gears a little bit.
One question before we go,because I do want to talk about
your for your photography andand background with that as
well.
Um Olympic sport.
Do you think we become anOlympic sport?
You think that goes somewhere?

SPEAKER_00 (50:38):
Oh, for sure.
Um I definitely think it will.
I think it's uh it's probablygonna be something on the
shorter side, like the sub-ultradistance, just because um like
as much fun as watching peoplego after like a world record for
a hundred K or something likethat.
Uh, I do think it will be liketrail 25k, something, something

(50:59):
kind of like a golden trailworld series type thing.

SPEAKER_01 (51:02):
Interesting.
All right, I like that.
I think I think we're headed inthat direction.
Something.
VK, something short, somethingpunchy.
Um, I think we can borrow a lotfrom schemo there, whether good
or bad.
I think there's there's somethings to that we'll see as far
as short, you know, short racinggoes.
All right, I do want to ask youabout your photography because I
saw the Circ series share someof your stuff um this year from

(51:22):
I think it was Aliaska.
Were you in uh you were shootingover there?
Dude, talk to me about this.
Is this like a business thatyou're doing as well?
Like talk about yourphotography.

SPEAKER_00 (51:30):
Yeah, um, so it's wild.
I bought a camera like lastOctober, September, um, so a
little over a year ago,basically, because it's like,
oh, I live in Maine.
I'm gonna be able to capture thefall colors with something other
than my phone.
Um and so got the camera,started having some fun with it,
and then um like mainly do likelandscape stuff, and then kind

(51:53):
of got into some wildlife stuff,and like being injured, it's
like, well, I can't run, but Ican hike, so I'm definitely just
like focused on wildlife andlandscape.
But then uh I was gonna go up toAlaska for the Cirque series
race because Alaska is the 50thstate for me to go to.
And then I just texted Julianand is like, hey dude, like I'm
injured, I can't run.
Uh, do you need any morephotographers?

(52:13):
And he's like, Yes, actually wedo.
And I was like, oh, okay.
Um, and so he's like, still,come on up and we'll take care
of it.
So I went up and shot uh theCirque series race up there in
Alaska, and that was like myfirst real paid gig or whatever.
And he's just like, Do you wantto come to all of our races?

(52:33):
Yeah.
And I was like, sure.
Um, absolutely.
And so it's fun, and I don'treally advertise that I'm like
doing any paid stuff orwhatever, but like if people
need uh race photography or justlike following athletes, um I'm
super open to it.
Uh so like Cape Town this year,I ended up getting super sick
and not getting to race in CapeTown.

(52:54):
Uh, but my teammate Emily wasstill racing, so I ended up just
like instead of just sitting inmy Airbnb all day, it's like
went out, did photography forthat, documented her day, and it
was super fun.
And um, and I think that Merrilllike was like, oh, he does
actually know how to use acamera.

SPEAKER_01 (53:13):
Well will we see you like so for instance, like I'll
race the Cirque Series nextyear.
Will I be seeing you at CirqueSeries races doing some
shooting?
Like any anything in particular,like at least like the New
Hampshire race and the Vermont.
That's not far from you.

SPEAKER_00 (53:25):
They're not far, but they're like right around
western states.
So I don't know that I'll bethere.
And I really wanted to be, um,but I don't think I'll be there
for that.
But I am going back to Alaska.
Okay.
Um, so super excited for that.
And who knows where else I'llbe.

SPEAKER_01 (53:39):
Dude, I'll check maybe we gotta I I'll see.
I don't know what Michelino'splans are, but maybe we'll have
uh like a a party it up at Targyif Francesco, if I can get
Francesco out there, we can havea group.

SPEAKER_00 (53:50):
That could be fun.
Yeah.
That could be fun.
Yeah, that'd be really fun,actually.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:54):
Talk talk a little bit about uh your experience in
South Africa.
It sounds like obviously yousaid you got sick, so that
that's not good.
But like talk about like theexperience just being out there
and the race, like the race ingeneral, like getting to follow
that and cover that.
Like, what was that all about?

SPEAKER_00 (54:09):
Yeah, um, you know, it was kind of wild.
So I had never been to Cape Townor anywhere in South Africa
before.
And it always gets, you know,the reputation of being just a
very dangerous city, and so umfor the longest time I kind of
stayed away from it.
And uh it's amazing.
It's absolutely amazing.

(54:30):
The people are super friendlythere.
Um, you know, coming from theUS, it's actually not expensive
to get there or even be there.
So like that's a super positivething.
Um the trails are really rugged,it's warm, it's windy, it's it's
all of the things that make CapeTown such a hard race, but like

(54:51):
such a great experience.
And like I'm super sad that Ididn't get to run the 100 miler
this year, but crewing the 100kat least got to see a lot of the
course and like understand whatI'm getting myself into next
year.
Yeah, next year.
Um, but you know, I think Ithink more people should go to
Cape Town.
I honestly do.
It's um to have the ocean rightthere and be able to go to the

(55:15):
beach, but then also be likestanding on top of a mountain
not that far away, is prettyincredible.

SPEAKER_01 (55:21):
I mean, the wildlife there is supposed to be crazy
too.
Like there's like cobras andshit like hanging out, and
apparently like I don't know,you can cage dive with the great
whites.
Like, there's like amazing stuffthat you can do there.
It's sounds pretty cool.

unknown (55:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:32):
Yeah, it's uh it's a really neat place.
And then like if you justventure out a little bit
farther, you know, you could goon safari and you can do all
that stuff.
So I mean, they're like, there'severything is there.
Um, and so it's uh it's a reallycool place, and I'm looking
forward to going back.

SPEAKER_01 (55:46):
So it's definitely worth it then.
It's exciting too, because wehave I think worlds in 2027 is
gonna be there.
So that that'll be kind ofpiggybacked onto that.
So it'll be uh so you said thetrails are rugged.
Is it so like when you sayrugged, like northeast technical
or technical in a different way?
Like what about it pops out toyou that like makes it so so
different and unique?

SPEAKER_00 (56:05):
Uh it's steep and it's sharp.
Um and so like they'redefinitely there are definitely
points on the course whereyou'll need like three or four
points of contact.
Um and so I think that's onething a lot of people don't
realize going into it, whereit's like, yeah, you know, it's
gonna be steep, okay, and like,yeah, it's rocky and some of the
rocks are kind of sharp andstuff, okay.

(56:26):
Um, but like there are pointswhere you need three and four
points of contact.
And so that's what makes it justhard, I think.
And at the same time, uh theyhad like 50 to 70 mile per hour
wind at times out there on thecourse.
They're like, sometimes you'redealing with heavy fog, the
wind, uh, just the steepness ofstuff, and um apparently there's

(56:48):
like no ozone there.
So like the UV index was like uh11 or a 12 out of 10.
Um and so it was one of theyeah, so it's like everyone gets
pride there, and so it was superfunny.
It's like uh on one of my firstdays there, we were just walking
around and it's like, oh,there's another black person
with sunscreen on.
I should probably put sunscreenon.

(57:09):
I'm like, if the locals areputting sunscreen on and you're
not from there, that means youput it on.
Um and so it was just reallyfunny.
It's like there are just a lotof environmental conditions that
make it a hard place.

SPEAKER_01 (57:20):
Interesting.
Well, what is the I I know youyou were sick.
Was it water?
Like, do was it the food?
Like, what what do you think gotyou got you sick?

SPEAKER_00 (57:28):
You know, honestly, I have no idea.
Um was that good?
Oh, the f the food's great.
Um and like Uber Eats is supercheap, so like that's one of the
best parts because like sure,you know, it's kind of a
dangerous city where it's likeyou don't walk places alone
after dark.
And um realistically, if you'rein an Airbnb, the easiest thing
to do is just like Uber Eatsfood to the Airbnb if you want.

(57:51):
Um, and so it's really nicebecause it's like, oh, I can be
in a great place and I don'thave to go anywhere.
Um, I love it.
Um, but yeah, it was maybe thewater, I don't know, because
like technically you can stilldrink the water, but like just
because you can drink the waterdoesn't always mean that you
should.
And for a while I was like, am Ithe only one that got sick?

(58:12):
But it's like, oh no, no, no.
There are definitely a fewpeople from North America and
Europe that tried to race therethat ended up getting pretty
sick.
And so um I still don't knowwhat it was, but it wasn't just
me.

SPEAKER_01 (58:25):
So I was it's a recurring thing every year.
I mean, Anton was over there afew years ago, he got sick and
it derailed his entire raceweekend as well.
So it's not it's like a NorthAmerican thing.
I don't know.
We're just not whatever it isnow, water.
We're not used to that the biomeor whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (58:40):
You know, it was like it was so sad though,
because I was just like, I thinkI can still race.
I think I can still race, andit's like every 15 minutes just
running to the bathroom and likethe night and like the night
before the race, I didn't evenget to sleep in my bed.
I just like slept on thebathroom floor because I just
like this is so terrible.
And then it's like, but I'mstill gonna race.

(59:01):
It's like, no, no, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 (59:04):
Uh what's uh so obviously Western States is kind
of next for you as far as biggoals, but what else what else
do you have on your plans for Iguess late 2025?
Well, 2025 is pretty much over,but going into 2026, is it just
gonna be Western States or in inNovember UTC?

SPEAKER_00 (59:20):
Uh trying to figure everything out still because uh
I need to figure out like a halfmarathon, marathon, uh probably
sometime February, March.
Um just I don't really know whatI want to do, to be completely
honest.
So it's just like find somethingthat's interesting and fun.
Uh it's a road marathon, so it'slike, am I looking for
interesting, fast, or just fun?

(59:42):
So we'll figure that out.
Um I still have an I rolled myentry from uh Moab two forty
from this year over to nextyear.
So there's like a super solidpossibility that it could be
Western Moab in Cape Town thisyear, which I think would be a
pretty pretty solid triple.
Um but who knows, there's thereare always things that pop up

(01:00:04):
where I'm like, oh, that'sreally exciting.
Here we go.
Get on a plane.
I love it.
I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:08):
Alright, I think it's a good place to put a pin
in it.
Corey, I hope I get to hang outwith you this summer, man.
It was really fun getting totalk to you and uh getting to
know you a little bit more andlisten to more of your story.
Um much appreciated and uhwishing you the best of luck
going into the new year.
Yeah, thanks.
This has been great.
Appreciate it.
Awesome.
Sweet dude.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.

(01:00:30):
Like I said, this one's a littlebit different.
Not too much about performance,not too much about racing, but
just about you know, histhoughts on the sport, where
we're at with prize money, wherewe're at with um just the
athlete management side, um, andjust Corey's take on the sport,
which I found to be superinteresting.
And I hope those that are uh,you know, kind of aspiring pros

(01:00:51):
got some value out of thatdiscussion um around what it's
like being an athlete managerand uh you know some of the
advice Corey had to had toprovide.
Um guys, before you get going,you can find Corey on Instagram.
It's gonna be linked in the shownotes, but you can follow him at
Corey Waltering.
It's gonna be uh on there foryou guys to find.
Give him a follow, send him aDM.
I'm sure that's what he'd loveto hear is more DMs.

(01:01:13):
Um but that said, uh, I'm surehe'd love to hear what you guys
thought about the episode.
I'm sure he'd be superappreciative.
Um guys, before you get going,if you enjoyed this episode,
please give us a five-starrating and review on Apple,
Spotify, YouTube, uh, whereveryou consume your podcast.
We are trying to grow thatYouTube channel.
So hop on over to the SteepStuff Podcast on YouTube and

(01:01:33):
give us a subscription.
Subscribe.
I still gotta get that down.
Subscription, subscribe, yeah,whatever.
Uh click the click the button.
Click the button.
Give us some love.
Um and yeah, definitely give usa five-star rating review on
Apple or Spotify.
And if you guys have been reallyenjoying this, don't just give
us a review.
On Apple, let us know what youlike.
Let us know what you don't likeuh and let us know what you

(01:01:54):
like.
It'd be it's pretty good stuff.
So uh definitely appreciate youguys.
Thanks for tuning in, thanks forlistening.
We've got a whole slew of reallyfun announcements and really
cool end of year stuff we'regonna be working on in the next
few weeks, um, especially as westart to close out the year.
Thanks for tuning along.
Uh, much appreciated.