December 15, 2025 • 58 mins
What does it take to choose the mountains when a different calling has your heart? We sit with Arc’teryx athlete Emma Cook-Clarke for a candid, high-altitude conversation about identity, risk, and the rare joy of sustainable excellence. Emma reflects on a season loaded with contrasts—top 10 in the world at the uphill and a historic team bronze for Canada, a Speedgoat podium in a record-fast year, and the sting of missing Olympic SkiMo qualification—then walks us through how she’s rebuilding momentum by staying grounded in Canmore and training by feel.
Emma’s path didn’t start on talus. Gymnastics built composure, rugby taught grit and trust, and running unlocked freedom. A local uphill challenge during the pandemic revealed world-class climbing talent and led to her Arc’teryx partnership—support that feels like true professionalism: wellness first, smart planning, and access to specialists. We dig into her decision to step away from structural firefighting, drawing clear lines from the fireground to the backcountry: risk a lot to save a lot, fight complacency, and communicate with purpose. That same mindset shows up on technical ridges, at chaotic VK starts, and when the watch tries to drown out intuition.
You’ll hear a tactical breakdown of World Champs VK strategy, the team dynamics behind Canada’s first-ever medal, and a pacing masterclass from Speedgoat—altitude, heat, and humility yielding a steady engine and a late-race surge. We also celebrate the soul of skyrunning at Meet the Minotaur, where handbuilt trails and scree descents keep adventure alive, and we talk Rockies reality: bear spray, smart route choices, and a rare, unforgettable wolverine sighting that reminds us to look up and simply watch.
If you’re an athlete navigating big goals, a fan of skyrunning and SkiMo, or someone weighing a hard life pivot, Emma’s story offers a clear compass: protect your joy, respect risk, and let the mountains reshape what success looks like. Enjoy the conversation—and if it moves you, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and drop a review to help others find the show.
Follow Emma on IG - @emcookclarke
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James L'Oriello,and today I'm so excited to
welcome Emma Cook Clark to theshow.
The Arcterics athlete was kindenough to come on and give us
some time.
We talked all about how she gotinto the sport, her background
as well as her previous life asa firefighter, and kind of
balancing that and ultimatelyhaving to step away not too long
(00:22):
ago to go to the professionaltrail scene.
Emma has had an absolutelyinsane 2025 season, top 10 in
the world at the vertical, aswell as a bronze medal for the
Canadian uh team this year inthe vertical, which was the
first medal a Canadian team hasever scored at the uh World
(00:43):
Mountain Running Championship,which is pretty amazing.
Um we also talked a lot about alot of other races.
Um we got into Speed Goat,talked about how she figured
that race out, uh, which is arace that normally people don't
do too well at the first time.
And Emma uh landed herself um onthe podium second place for her
first run.
We also talked about Meet theMinotaur, where she is a former
(01:06):
champion.
Um, and actually it's a backyardrace for her.
We talked about what it's likeliving in Cranmore in the
greater area and getting totrain uh some of those beautiful
peaks.
It was fun, it was a greatconversation.
So I think you guys are gonnareally enjoy this one.
Super happy to have gotten theuh I get to chat and uh meet
Emma.
So without further ado, EmmaCook Clark.
(02:32):
Emma Cook Clark.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Hey James, yeah, dude, not too bad.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited to have this
conversation.
I'm such a fan of yours.
Like I've been following yourbody of work more or less for
the last few years with uhusually like race preview
episodes, obviously, you getbrought up on all the time.
And I'm just so excited tofinally be chatting with you.
So this is uh this is good stuffhere.
Um how are you doing, by theway?
How's your week going so far?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Oh, that's sweetie to say.
Thanks for the uh the nice wordsthere.
Uh yeah, week is going allright, just coming off of the
World Cup for SkiMountaineering, which was the
final race in the Olympicqualifying.
And uh yeah, unfortunately inCanada, we were just shy of
qualifying.
So I'm in a little bit of a lowfrom that, I think, just
(03:23):
processing a lot.
But uh otherwise, I'm I'm doingwell.
I'm healthy.
I had quite a bit of likesickness and injury this fall,
and knock on wood right now.
I seem to be doing pretty well.
So a lot to be grateful for.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
It's good to hear you're uh you're injury free and
doing well.
It's been a crazy year for you.
Like a lot of like high highs.
I mean, I I like I'd say thefirst thing, obviously, wedding
you had a few weeks back, andthen on top of that, you know,
getting uh, you know, you gotyou were top 10 and then third
place for Team Canada in thevertical.
Uh you were the podium of SpeedGoat.
(03:58):
Like it's been a crazy year foryou.
So like in reflection, lookingbackwards, like how how does it
feel to uh to accomplish all thethings that you've accomplished
this year?
SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
Yeah, it's uh I think I need to do a bit more
processing and reflecting,really.
Like hearing you say all those,all those things is uh it's
pretty cool.
But I think right now I'm justin the little bit of I'm fixated
on um yeah, the skimountaineering stuff and just
the the unknown of what's aheadand a bit of the grief
(04:33):
surrounding that.
Um so I'm I'm looking forward tojust continuing to process and
taking a little step back fromall that and as time goes on,
allowing myself to likecelebrate the year for what it
was, uh, because it really was aspecial year in so many ways,
from sporting to other life uhto just personal growth as well.
(04:55):
So yeah, I think in the rightnow, present moment talking to
you, I'm being quite hard onmyself, um, which is that's not
new to me, but it's somethingthat I'm uh excited to keep
working on.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Yeah.
Well, I think that's I mean, youknow, that's that's what
competitors do, you know.
I I think that if you don'tdidn't hold yourself to self to
such a high side, yeah, holdyourself to such a high
standard, um, I feel like youwouldn't be as successful,
right?
But I think it's holdingyourself to that high standard
brings a degree of success.
So listen, I I think a lot ofthe athletes listening to this,
(05:31):
and including myself, cantotally understand and totally
relate.
And, you know, it's uh it's Imean, it's definitely something
to uh to work through for sure.
I do have to ask you this likewhat does that look like for you
going forward?
Uh at least like in this part ofthe season.
Will you take time off?
Will you continue schemo?
Like what what are your um Iguess immediate plans for the
(05:52):
next few months and as thingscontinue?
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
That's a great question.
Uh I've left a lot up in theair, mostly just day by day at
this stage.
Um yeah, I I think I just wantto take a little breather and
figure out what it is that Ipersonally want and and chase
goals that are exciting to me.
Um so I'm not entirely sure, butI think uh it can be tricky
(06:19):
trying to compete in bothseasons, and that's led to some
issues in the past.
And so I I'm pretty excited, Ithink, actually to just ease
into the scheme.
I know it didn't really easeinto it with this race last
weekend, but um ease into it alittle bit more and and just do
some things for fun and take alittle pressure off my
(06:41):
shoulders.
Uh yeah, I'm looking forward tojust not recording anything, you
know, going out, doing whateverfeels right, go hard or not go
hard, just get back to kind ofhow I have loved training for so
long is going by feel and doingwhat's right condition-wise.
So yeah, looking forward togetting out for some nice powder
(07:02):
skiing, hopefully, some big daysout.
And I'm not sure.
I'm a little bit honestly burntout from all the travel.
I think it's it's so much goingbetween all the different
continents to race and havingtime away from home and spending
a lot of money traveling andthen constantly being jet legged
and worrying about your bag thatgot lost or whatever it may be.
(07:25):
Um, I definitely appreciate allthe opportunities to travel.
But right now, I'm lookingforward to just diving in a
little bit more in my localcommunity and being with family
more, being with yeah, the newhusband and uh just kind of
going day by day.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, I think that's the way to
that's the way to do it, in myopinion.
I I think that there's listen,you know, there's a time to go
do all the fun stuff and go allover the place, but also you
also live in a very beautifulplace too.
Like Cranmore is so cool that Iwouldn't want to leave.
Like I would just want to stayand ski and run all year round.
Like I you couldn't get me outof those mountains.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
It is hard.
It's funny.
Every time I drive to theairport, I'm like, why?
Why am I leaving these beautifulmountains to go to other
beautiful mountains?
But no, I I certainly, as Isaid, appreciate every
opportunity to travel and seethe world and experience
different cultures.
But you're right, Canmore is aspectacular place and it's kind
of um it's not really felt likehome over the last few years,
(08:27):
solely because I haven't beenthere much.
So I'm like looking forward tobeing there a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
Oh, it's crazy.
Well, we'll have to we'll talk alittle bit more about Cranmore
and just like what it's likeliving and training as we get
further in on the episode.
But I think before um before weget started, I do want to kind
of take a left-hand turn andmaybe go back in your past.
Uh, you have such an interestingbackstory.
Like everything I've learned inmy research, like from rugby to
firefighting, like such aninteresting uh group of things
(08:55):
that you've done.
Maybe maybe talk about your yourrelationship with sport, how you
got into sport, um, and kind ofwalk me through some of those
earlier years.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
Sure.
Yeah, I I uh grew up with anolder brother.
He's two and a half years older.
So I think I always looked up tohim and just tried to chase him
around and also get chased byhim.
So sport was always a part of mylife um in a like a playful
sense, but then also acompetitive sense.
(09:26):
I did some competitivegymnastics in I think grade five
and six, which just set a reallygood foundation, both physically
but also mentally, for dealingwith pressure, having to stay
dedicated, you know, showing upon time, the consequences of
sport, the highs and lows, allthat.
Um, but that was superstructured.
(09:47):
Then I quit that and did moresoccer throughout the other, the
other grades and some rugby.
But yeah, I think sport's justalways been um a way for me to
express myself, a way for me toburn off some energy, um, and a
way to just like feel reallyalive, I suppose, by seeing what
(10:09):
the body can do, seeing what themind can do as well while you're
at it.
And it's um it's I think one ofmy favorite ways to communicate
with other people too, whetheryou're on the same team or
whether you're competing kind ofagainst each other in more of an
individual sport, that sort ofthing.
But it's just it's so so cool tohave that fairly shared
(10:30):
experience, even though it'sit's unique to each individual.
But um yeah, I bit of a bit ofmy relationship with sport, I
guess, there.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
That's interesting.
Talk to me about how how didyou, like I said, in my
research, I found out that youhad played rugby.
I I find it so interestingbecause you know, like I mean,
my background, obviously, I grewup in in America, I grew up in
South Florida, Florida.
It's more soccer-based.
That was kind of like my primarysport.
And, you know, you grow uphearing about rugby, and it's a
contact sport.
Like rugby's legit.
(11:01):
Talk about this.
Talk about how like you got intothe sport and uh just the
foundation of that, and if thathad any lasting impression on
you.
SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Yeah, the high school I went to, uh, shout out
to Bonas High in Calgary.
Rugby was one of the main sportsthere, and they had a history of
doing quite well in it.
And some of the teams even wentover to New Zealand to play in
tournaments, which was reallycool.
So uh that was part of thereason for joining the team.
(11:31):
And in high school and juniorhigh, I just wanted to be on
every team that I could.
Again, it was such a fun way torelate with people, to push
myself to grow, to get theseneat experiences.
Um, I just couldn't couldn't getenough, really.
It felt so fun and so freeing.
Uh, so I decided to try rugby.
(11:52):
I had played some basketball andthen obviously soccer as well.
And in those, you do, they'renot so much contact sports, but
you still have contact and youhave to be pretty feisty and
stand up for yourself and standup for your teammates.
And I am a bit like smaller instature, but also had the
running legs.
So I was pretty suited for thewing and fullback positions,
(12:15):
which are yeah, a lot ofrunning, some contact for sure,
but not you're not like holdingup the whole scrum.
And it's a really cool sport.
I miss playing it.
It's like such a such a teamdynamic where you really need
your teammates and and trustthem and work really well
together.
And no one person can carry thewhole team on their back, you
(12:38):
know.
You have to really work togetherand be a little bit selfless in
it as well.
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
I mean, it I mean, this is uh like I the first
thing I think of is likeAmerican football, right?
Because that's contact sport.
A little bit, obviously, there'ssignificant differences, but I
guess that's the closest likeparallel that I draw toward.
Um, obviously it's quite aphysical sport.
Like, did you ever likeconcussions or have any issues
with that?
Like, was that like ever um athing, or were you able to kind
(13:04):
of avoid any injury like thatkind of going through the sport?
SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Yeah, no, it's certainly high impact and uh
high potential.
Lots of injuries were witnessedfor sure, whether it be in
gameplay or practice.
Um, I probably got a few minorconcussions, but didn't I was
sort of concussions were juststarting to be taken seriously.
Um but no, I managed to mostlycome away unscathed.
(13:32):
I did have some shoulderdislocation happen, which I've
now had surgery on, but um thatwas partly just like genetic and
had some instability to beginwith.
But um no, it it certainly wasnot a chill sport and had lots
of practices where you finishedoff in an ice bath because it
(13:53):
was so painful and you'rebruised everywhere.
Um, but it I guess the thecontact part was one of the
reasons that I chose not to keepplaying in university.
I was choosing between runningand rugby, and rugby would have
been really cool, but I justthought, okay, it's at this now
adult level, you know, the womenare even bigger, and I would
(14:15):
have needed to get a lot biggermyself and thought uh let's try
running and then can go back torugby if I if I want to or miss
it, and or if I found runningtoo boring.
But no, the the injury piece ishuge and longevity is important
to me as well to be able to keepmoving and doing fun things for
(14:37):
my whole life.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
So true, so true.
How how did skiing and mountainrunning kind of come into the
fold for you?
Like I've heard in uh in acouple previous episodes with
you, you know, you've talkedabout identifying more as a
mountain athlete more so thanjust a runner.
Like talk and and I think when Ithink of mountain athlete, I
think of encompassing both thosesports of mountain running and
skiing and being in thiswell-rounded type of athlete.
(15:01):
How did that like not justlifestyle, but how did just uh
full circle that come about foryou?
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Hmm.
Yeah, my parents have alwaysbrought us out doing lots in the
mountains.
So from a young age, I think Iwas just moving in the mountains
in whatever way made sense.
If it's winter, you're probablyskiing because there's no sense
running.
If you're on a long, like Idon't know, yeah, trail or you
want to cover a lot of ground,you're mountain biking or gravel
(15:30):
biking or road biking.
If you're wanting to be onwater, you're canoeing or
kayaking or stand-uppaddleboarding.
And if you're wanting to do morevertical terrain, you're either
running or climbing.
So I just have been, I guess,gifted this set of skills to
navigate in whichever way eitheris most inspiring or makes most
(15:50):
sense.
And that combined with the likea bit more organized sport
background, I think I was ableto have some pretty good fitness
throughout my life.
And um after finishingcross-country and track and
field, was more into being inthe mountains, and that always
is where it felt most excitingto me as opposed to being on a
(16:12):
track or a road, and just reallyfreeing to go move your body in
the way that feels good.
Um, I think it, you know, youhear some people say, Oh, I hate
the gym or I don't like running,it hurts, or whatever.
But for me, if you're out on atrail, it's such a different
story, and it's you're you'rejust it's like not a chore at
(16:35):
that stage.
You're yeah, you're able to movefreely and just cover more
ground than if you were hiking.
Um, so the running, runningpiece feels yeah, just like this
really cool exploration, Isuppose, of where you're at in
your landscape and uh thesimplicity of it too, where it's
(16:57):
pretty much just your body isreally special as well.
Um, yeah, and I guess sort ofthe same thing goes for the ski
mountaineering, just startedfrom the love of exploring and
navigating the outdoors andusing my body, and um again
living in such a spectacularpart of the world, there's
endless places to go.
(17:19):
And you look at a map andanywhere you see, you could you
could go explore somehow, andyou'd probably get a lot out of
it.
And so it's been it's been easyto want to progress in many
sports.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
When you when you first started skiing, and same
with mountain running, like wereyou good at it right away
because you had fitness totranslate?
I know obviously skiing is asignificantly more technical,
there's way more to learn.
Running is a bit moresignificantly, I don't want to
say easy because that doesn'tthat's not really the right
word, but it's easy to put on ashoes and kind of pair of shoes
and kind of figure that out.
Were you good at it right away,or did it take time for you to
(17:57):
progress and and get good andand learn and get better?
SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
Yeah, uh good question.
I mean, it for sure takes timeand I'm still trying to progress
and get better.
Um but I I do think that kind ofin the backstory of having a
foundation from such a youngage, I maybe had a pretty high
like level of physical literacyalready.
(18:25):
Um I had some strong fitnessbase.
And and the other thing withmountain, both mountain running
and ski mountaineering isthere's certainly like a fear
piece to it.
Um and it can feel verycommitting.
But I I think I, though I mightlast lack of self-confidence in
other ways, in the confidence inlike what I can do in terrain,
(18:47):
uh, I think that was fairlyhigh.
And so I was able to continueprogressing at a rapid rate
there.
Um, yeah, for instance, likedownhill running, I know it can
be pretty intimidating for a lotof people, or just being out in
the backcountry on your own oror without many people, it can
feel more risky, which it is.
Uh, but uh we can we can alsohold ourselves back by being a
(19:10):
little too worried, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
That's true.
That's true.
Was there any like one I lookedback in your in your uh results,
obviously, but was like thereone race that you started doing
in mountain running that likegot you hooked on the sport that
you're like, okay, yeah, this isthis is something I want to
continue to pursue because I Ireally enjoy this.
SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
That's a good question.
I I went to the world champsmany years ago, I forget what
year exactly, like 2018 or 2017or something like that.
But I hadn't been doing muchmountain running at all.
I was living in northernAlberta, which was really flat,
and uh I think I did a few roadraces that summer, and then I
(19:51):
unfortunately got a stressreaction in my foot, so I like
went into this race totally nottrained.
Um, and I did the race and Itfelt okay, but it's uh I'm sure
you can relate to this feeling.
Like when you show up and you'renot really ready at all.
Oh yeah.
And then you perform and it'slike you know it's well below
what you're capable of, like youcan be proud of it in some ways
(20:14):
and sure, oh I did the best forwhat the like I did what I could
on the day, which I do think isa great attitude, but still like
you can't be fully wellpersonally, I can't be fully um
stoked or satisfied on itbecause I've you know, you're
always still questioning, ohwell, what could I do, you know,
if I if I really was ready,which that's a whole other
conversation of are we everready?
(20:36):
Anyway, so that race, it wasamazing to see the world stage
and and just be super inspiredby everyone from all around the
world.
But I I kind of like put out ofmy mind and uh went down a
different career path and wasfocused on that.
So I think the turning point forme was in um 2021, or I believe,
(20:57):
uh this local shopping can orskip hill put on a virtual
challenge during the pandemic.
Um, so it was like a king orqueen of the hill.
So it was a bracket-stylecompetition, kind of like March
Madness.
Um, and they only timed like itwas only the uphill segment that
counted.
And I think there were 64 likewomen and 64 men, and at the
(21:20):
end, like it's just whoever hasthe fastest time that moves on
each week.
And so that's really what kickstarted me.
I'd never really timed thingsuphill before.
Um, and that's also how I wasnoticed by my current sponsor,
ArcTaryx.
So I yeah, I think that thatcompetition is what really kind
(21:42):
of was the turning point of oh,hey, this is not only like
really, really fun and you enjoythe movement and the hurt and
the camaraderie, but also youhave some talent and maybe it's
worth actually pursuing this alittle bit more.
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Wow, that's so interesting.
So that's how Arctaryx found youand like scouted you as talent
for them.
That's so crazy.
How did that getting picked upby Arctaryx?
Like, how was that?
Was it life-changing at all foryou?
Or was it just like, okay, now Ihave support to go do these
amazing races and do all thesethings that I would love to do
as an athlete?
Or was it like another level oflike, oh my gosh, this is so
(22:19):
cool kind of thing?
Like, how was that as far aslife-changing for you?
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
Oh, totally life-changing.
Uh, it's something that I hadnever thought about, you know,
like never considered beingstrong enough to have a
sponsorship.
Uh, again, that partly comesdown to that self-confidence
piece, but it just wasn't like apath that I thought that I was
capable of or had evenconsidered pursuing.
Um, and so for I rememberreceiving the message and they
(22:47):
asked if I had any sponsorshipconflicts, and I just burst out
laughing, like, wow, that's socool of you to think that I
might have conflicts.
Like, no, absolutely not.
Um, so yeah, I I think just thatthat belief that that this
company and the individualsworking there had in me was so
(23:08):
huge and instrumental in meputting a bit more effort into
it.
Like I would definitely not bewhere I'm at now if it weren't
for that opportunity.
Uh, which is it's prettyspecial.
Well, really special.
SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I mean, I have uh, I mean,obviously, I've had quite a few
of your teammates on the podcastbefore.
Just the benefits and some ofthe cool stuff you guys get.
Like being able to, I mean,everything from I mean, you
could name the list, like notjust like gear and everything
you get, but also like beingable to have um what was Jesse
McCauley telling me?
I think it was like access toum, I guess like the sports
(23:45):
psych and all different kinds ofthings like you guys get, which
is so cool.
Uh like it's like I I don'tknow, I find it very cool or
interesting because that's likea real level of professionalism
in the sport.
Like you are, that's true,you're a professional athlete
and you're getting all the perksto help you optimize all of the
things that you're doing.
And I find that to be like I I Ihope I wish all brands would do
(24:06):
that and do something similar.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
I agree.
It's amazing.
Certainly fortunate to have thatand to have just the wellness
piece be at the top of thepriority.
Of course, they are encouragingof strong results and that sort
of thing, but first andforemost, they want us to be
well and do well.
Um which, yeah, it's reallyrefreshing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Yeah.
Super cool.
All right.
I wanna I want to shift gears alittle bit.
If you maybe it was a year ago,maybe less, not so long ago, you
stepped away from being afirefighter.
Can you can you talk about thatlike time in your life of being
a firefighter and what thatmeant to you and like what what
you did like as a as a career?
Talk about that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, so I started my firecareer doing wildland fire while
I was in university.
So the summers of that, I wentout and worked in the bush all
summer.
It was an incredible experience.
Have met so many amazing peopleand got to do so many really
cool things and give back in alot of ways.
It was a perfect summer job,getting to be physical, be
(25:14):
outside and and work with goodpeople.
Those are kind of like some ofmy my top top things in life,
using my body being outside anddoing that with with good people
and working together.
So um, yeah, that was sort ofthe intro.
And in that time, I was studyingenvironmental science.
So I did a little bit of workwith that too.
(25:34):
And a few of the guys on my crewwere applying for the fire
department.
So I was like, well, might aswell.
Like it's free to apply.
Um, so I put the name in, andthen there was it's many steps.
It took uh three years, all forone application between between
when I applied and when Istarted.
(25:55):
Um but uh that that was great,you know, it allowed me to live
so much life in between, andevery step was of course not a
guarantee.
So I just tried to take it onestep at a time.
And um, as I progressed and gotfurther along in the process, I
became more and more keen on itand more invested.
And yeah, it ultimately uh itworked out.
(26:17):
So I spent uh four and a halfyears working for a structural
fire department as a full-timeprofessional firefighter, and it
was uh a whole lot of things,you know, it was really
challenging in some ways, superrewarding in others, uh held me
accountable.
(26:37):
Um yeah, I I loved many parts ofit and being able to serve the
community was really special.
Um but then these opportunitieswith sport just started to
increase and increase andincrease.
And it was not easy to make thedecision to leave, that's for
sure.
But uh I also definitelyunderstand that life is short
(27:02):
and and that it's notguaranteed.
And uh there's so many ways thatwe can be productive in life and
add value to the world and togive back.
And so a large hesitation waswell, I don't want to leave
because I'll be a quitter andI'll be quitting on my
community, I'll be quitting onthose I work with.
They've invested in me, la, I'llbe quitting on myself.
(27:26):
Um, but more and more I'vestarted to to question that and
to realize that we can, youknow, have positive impact in so
many other ways.
And um I can go back to to thatcareer if I want.
Uh I yeah, there's there'snothing holding me back.
And when I one of the things I Idid tell myself was in my class,
(27:48):
a lot of most people, I think Iwas the second youngest, so most
people were quite a bit older asthey got into the career.
And so in that sense, I waslike, you know what, you can
just like start over.
That's fine.
You can go and and live thisother path that's like pretty
cool to be able to do, you know.
(28:09):
I'm I feel very fortunate tohave, yes, won that lottery
ticket and being able to be astructural firefighter, but to
have also won this other lotteryticket of having a a body and a
mind and these opportunities andand support network that I'm
able to pursue sport for at thistime of my life.
SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
It's interesting, right?
I don't know.
I feel like uh, and I think alot of the listeners would
probably understand this or ormaybe uh connect with this, but
like not just in America butworldwide, like we're I think a
lot of people are verycareer-driven to like I pick
this one thing and I'm gonna dothis one thing for the rest of
my life until I retire and thenit's over.
And it's like I don't know, I Idon't like that.
(28:50):
I feel like life should be aseries of like mini retirements
and trying different things andgetting a chance to do those
things.
And I think you're a perfectexample of that.
Getting you you have this, youknow, firefighting is completely
different than mountain runningand professional skiing.
It's like it's it couldn't befurther away from it, but it's
cool because you're you youknow, you have this life and you
you transition to do somethingnew as an athlete.
(29:12):
Like you said, you can always goback to it, and also you could
try new things and other things.
I I like that open-mindednessapproach to life because um,
yeah, when you just try to putsomething in a box, I just think
that uh, you know, people arecapable of so many different
things, not just one thing, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
Right.
Yeah, and and we change and ourcircumstances change, and it's
there's nothing wrong withstaying with a career for your
entire life if it fulfills youand um yeah, fulfills your needs
and you're happy with it.
Um, but there's also I thinkmaybe less shame than there used
(29:50):
to be about leaving somethingand and taking a chance on
yourself and trying somethingnew.
And um I think that there's somuch crossover between sport and
life and work and education, youknow, like we gain so many
skills in everything that we dothat can be transferred to
(30:11):
everything else that we do,yeah.
So it's not it's not a loss.
Um yeah, we're just kind of likeculmination of all we've done
and all of our experience, andthat's that's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
How did you in this career firefight?
Like there obviously there's asubstantial degree of danger.
There's also danger in mountainrunning, too.
I mean, you live in Canmore,there's grizzly bears, there's
all kinds of stuff.
What uh we'll talk about grizzlybears later, but like how did
you deal with the dangers ofthat?
Um I I think this is more atwo-part question.
One, how did you deal with thedangers of the profession?
(30:50):
But also, um, I'm sure you as afirefighter, at least I know
from the firefighters I knowdown here, um, more of a team
kind of thing.
Everyone, like there's kind of ait's a big group and you can't
let your team members down.
It's very important.
Like how how how did you dealwith that?
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yeah, well, I almost want to guess what the second
part of this question is, but uhit's pretty similar dealing with
that risk as it is to dealingwith outdoor risk, you know.
Uh you don't jump into a burningbuilding without any training,
you don't jump in without yourproper equipment on, you don't
jump in with already making aplan with who you're doing it
(31:29):
with, uh and having strongcommunication.
And so, yeah, it you're you'reequipped with all these tools to
manage the risk and to mitigatedanger.
And so you shouldn't actually bethat scared.
Because if you're that scared,you probably shouldn't be there,
(31:50):
you know, like it's it'spossibly too risky to be there,
you know.
Maybe it's an imminent structurecollapse, and like you're not
gonna put the fire out, yougotta get out, and then change
your approach.
And so you're constantlyreevaluating and anchoring in on
what the situation's doing toensure that you and your crew
(32:13):
aren't somewhere that youshouldn't be.
Um, there's also kind of the thesaying that we'll risk a lot to
save a lot, but if you're notsaving a lot, you shouldn't be
risking a lot.
Um, and so that's a little bitof a you know, a benchmark, I
suppose, too, of there's say aconfirmed person trapped in a
(32:38):
building that's on fire.
Like that is something that youis worth risking a lot because
you could save a lot, um, asopposed to you know something
that's like lower stakes.
There's no sense puttingyourself or your crew at at that
much more danger if it's like ahigh likelihood too of something
(32:58):
bad happening.
Um so yeah, I guess in summary,good training and staying on top
of training, uh, not gettingcomplacent is huge.
I think that's a really big one.
And uh one thing that I learnedin my wildfire days was
experience does not necessarilyuh mean competency, you know,
(33:23):
like that those aren't directlyrelated.
So just because someone's beendoing it for 20 years doesn't
mean that like they're betterthan the person who's been doing
it for 10 years.
Um yeah, it's just uh it's sodifferent depending on what what
experience you have.
And I think that not not gettingcomplacent is a big one.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
Interesting.
Yeah, no, and thank you forpainting a picture and helping
to uh because I don't know, andlike helping paint the picture
for the audience as well, justbecause it's I don't know, it's
a very unique um thing.
And I don't know, like we couldtalk about running all day and
talk about skiing all day, butyou know, I think it's also uh
you get a lot out of the otherthings, and I find this to be a
very interesting topic.
So appreciate that.
(34:05):
We're gonna go back to runningnow.
Um I gotta I'm gonna make aleft-hand turn and uh I gotta
ask you about worlds.
Um humble brag, but I had TeamCanada in my podium um when I
was picking picking teams forthe uphill.
Um what does it feel like to belike number 10 like in the
uphill on the planet, which iskind of cool.
(34:25):
One, and two, what was yourexperience like at Worlds?
Did you have a good time thisyear?
SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
Yeah, I had a fun time.
It was it was so special to beover there with the team and
with people from all around theworld.
It's a really unique event.
Um, yeah, I got over there nottoo far in advance from the
race, which can be good and bad.
I think in hindsight, I feltsuper like uh, I don't know,
(34:52):
just not fiery in the race, youknow.
Um and unique type of race too,like fairly short duration-wise.
You're only going up, so you'renot really having to hold
anything back.
And as far as what I've beendoing lately, it was fairly low
angle, you know, a lot ofactually running.
I think our first kilometer waslike a 330k on an incline road,
(35:18):
which is pretty fast for anincline on uh on a VK.
Um, yeah, so I I wasn't actuallyfeeling that awesome in the
race.
I wasn't able to just run myrace, I think.
I was really in my head.
I kept looking at my watch, Ikept looking around, and uh
(35:40):
yeah, just like wasn't the moststoked on myself, I suppose.
But um like the body felt prettygood, and uh I think even with
the kind of doubts, I was ableto throw down a fairly
consistent effort throughout.
Um so yeah, I'm I'm prettypleased with it.
I mean, it's hard to be sad witha top 10 at World Champs, you
(36:03):
know, especially in like adiscipline that I didn't feel
that I had trained thatspecifically for.
Um but yeah, I think just alongthe lines of I do want what's
the best out of myself, youknow.
And um, I think maybe because Iwasn't having a super like fun
(36:25):
race mentally, I was leftwanting a bit more.
But uh again, that's justsomething that I'm trying to
work on.
And what I think what was reallycool was finishing third as a
team.
Um, to see Jade throughout therace was so encouraging, you
(36:47):
know, and to know that the othergals are out there working hard.
I think that's my favorite partof team type races is you really
do feel like it's more than you.
And you're able to think ofthose teammates who are out
there working so extremely hardand knowing that every place
matters no matter where you'reat in the field.
(37:08):
Um, yeah, it just like bringsout this special, special
dynamic, I suppose.
So finishing and seeing howclosely all four of us came in
was super positive.
And to put Canada on the map andlike getting our first ever team
medal at the Mountain InteriorRunning World Champs is super
(37:29):
special and definitely proud ofthat.
And it's something that I I hopewill continue to propel Canada
and mountain running.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
That's so crazy.
I I I gotta ask you this.
Will we see you?
Because that's the thing, likeyou're you've got a lot of
talent for uphill running, and Ifeel like you race more
different stuff betweenskyrunning and and um more
mountain running-based things.
Will we be seeing you doing moreVKs in the future?
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
That's a great question.
I don't know.
I need a life coach.
I think I have so many questionsright now about what I want to
do, what I should do, all that.
Um, yeah, part of me wants tolike try and do a fast 5K on the
road, but the other part of meis like, no, your body probably
will break with that.
Um and uh yeah, I've 50K hasbeen my longest race, so of
(38:20):
course I'm tempted to dosomething longer.
But um, no, right now I I amenjoying the short stuff, and I
really enjoyed these like shortschemo races that I didn't think
I would like.
But the anyway, from the likethree-minute race to the
40-minute race, I I have reallybeen liking.
So yeah, I I wouldn't be opposedto doing some more VKs.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Yeah, we'll see.
I mean, the talent is there,it's crazy.
Like, you're like, I mean,obviously, the proof is in the
pudding, like top 10 in theworld.
That's that's such a especiallythere was only these are the
best people in the world doingthis.
Um, so yeah, that's that'sreally cool.
I don't know.
I get very excited about thatstuff.
I'm like, wow, like we shoulddefinitely uh pursue that.
I gotta ask you one morequestion about the race.
You know, from everybody that Italked to in the race, they all
(39:04):
said the same thing.
Like it just it's so chaotic.
Like it bottleneck, andespecially there was like a nice
big bottleneck.
I know from the men's race, atleast, there was a lot of
discussion around thisbottleneck of when you came off
the road and onto the trail,people kind of got gapped up
there.
Did you struggle with that atall, or were you able to kind of
find your place pretty easilyonce you got in the mix?
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Yeah, definitely a bottleneck.
Um, going from this wide openuphill pavement road to like
super narrow and steep androcky, and there's this like
staircase at the start.
Um definitely felt panicky, likeit didn't feel like you could
just relax into it.
But I I was able to get a prettystrong start, possibly too
(39:47):
strong, um, on the road.
But I knew that that wasimportant to get a good spot.
And then um yeah, I had to takelike a few elbows in the chest
or whatever, but I I didn't findit was too bad in the
bottleneck, but again, I I wentout like hard enough to not be
stuck behind.
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
I mean, I was I was amazed.
I lurked your strava.
You were dropping like 550, 530gaps on there, and I was like,
yo, that's that's pretty fast.
You were moving.
So yeah, it's crazy how fastthat race starts.
Um and just what a consistent uhfinish.
So very cool.
Congratulations to you.
Um I do want to talk a littlebit about Speed Goat too.
(40:28):
I gotta, I gotta, I was sointrigued by this year because
three women went under thecourse record.
Um, you of course, um, you know,uh so like it was just such an
amazing race to follow alongthis year.
That's a tough race.
And this was, I think, yourfirst time running it, right?
You nailed it kind of the firsttime.
Um what were your thoughts onthat?
(40:49):
Like, will you go back to thatrace and try and win it?
Or is it are you a one and donefor Speed Goat?
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
Oh no, I I would certainly consider going back.
I did enjoy it.
It's a beautiful course, and Iit was it's at elevation, which
adds an element and can bereally hard and then has a
decent amount of birth.
But um, and I I guess anytimethat a course is hosted at a ski
hill, I'm a little hesitantbecause running only ski hills
(41:17):
doesn't feel quite as fun andwild, but the course is
phenomenal.
You've got some like a littlebit technical, not as technical
as skyrunning, of course, butyou cover some some cool terrain
and get a lot of really greatviews.
Um, and I really enjoyed theatmosphere.
So no, I I'm not opposed togoing back, but yeah, it's
definitely a a bit of a grind.
SPEAKER_00 (41:38):
Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like it's you andMalle Noise that like seem to
have that course figured out.
And it's uh it's a I mean, it'sjust it seems to eat people
alive, like for some reason.
People don't do very well uh inthat race.
What the other thing I wasamazed at too is like I I um I
think it was on I think Korosdid a post with you uh on like
heart rate zones.
(41:58):
Um and you were able to keeplike how the hell did you keep
yourself in zone two for fiveand a half hours and not like
let your heart rate spike?
Like you were so consistent andable to keep yourself within the
heart rate zone.
I find that incrediblyimpressive to not like get like
ubrists and you know have tolike try and catch someone or or
you know spike your heart rateand things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:19):
Hmm.
Wow, that's that's uh attentionto detail looking into those
stats.
Um yeah, I that's funny, Ididn't I hadn't even looked at
that that critically.
But um that's partly because Ionly kind of recently have
started using a watch.
I used to just use a Casio allthe time, or not even.
(42:39):
Um, and so I think that that hashelped immensely because I'm so
used to just going by feel andknowing that that race was the
longest distance race I'd done,plus it had quite a lot of vert,
plus it's at altitude, plus itwas hot, you know, there's all
these factors.
I knew that there'd be so muchtime to go hard and go fast if I
(43:00):
was feeling good in like thesecond half or the final third
or even the final descent.
And yeah, I guess just likethrough some experience, I've
learned that it can be superdetrimental to go out too hard.
Um, another I I think thing thathelped in this race was I hadn't
had much solid training, and soI went from finishing schemo
(43:24):
like end of April and then dealtwith some kind of nasty Achilles
stuff because in the winter Ididn't really run that much
because it was so much skiingand it's snowy everywhere,
la-da-da.
And then you get back to runningand your body's like, okay, hang
on.
I know you've got the fitness,but actually, structurally,
we're not ready for this.
Um, so yeah, my my trainingleading into speed goat, I
(43:46):
wasn't that confident on.
I think I had run um 22kilometers was my longest run
leading into the 50k.
Um, and so that I again comingback to this lack of confidence,
but I think that actually helpedme pace the race, you know.
Like I started off and was justsuper chill.
(44:09):
I a large part of me thoughtthat I actually wouldn't finish
the race.
Um, and so I was just going outand trying to not get too
stressed, trying to stayrelaxed.
I was chatting with people onthe whole first climb, um, and
just taking it kind of one stepat a time.
And that that pacing, I guess,helped keep my heart rate low
(44:29):
and and keep me able to stayconsistent throughout the the
duration of the six hours.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
Yo, I'm astonished.
That's crazy.
Especially because I don't know,like I think like especially on
the climbs at altitude to keepyour heart rate that like keep
your like just keep things incheck.
Like I one of the things I thinkabout that race is what you've
said, and I think to nail itcorrectly, you just can't go too
hard.
Like you have to find that likea rhythm more or less um for the
(44:56):
ascent and for the the for uhrunning downhill as well.
So super interesting.
Um yeah, so it's interesting.
So you will go back, or at somepoint in time, possibly, just
because I don't know.
I feel like you know, with thebackground that you had on
there, you know, to go back andyou could probably run another
amazing time.
So that'd be cool to see youback there.
SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
Yeah, thanks.
Uh no, it's certainly on theradar.
I don't know what this nextseason will we'll have in store,
but uh I I won't write off SpeedGoat, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:27):
Yeah, on that top on that topic, I think the World
Skyrunner series drops hercalendar tonight or tomorrow.
I think we're supposed to knowmore, something like that.
I don't know.
Are you aware of this?
I have I've just I I try to keepuh keep tabs on the sport.
I don't know too much, but yay.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
I uh I haven't I don't have my calendar marked
with it, but uh I will I will bekeeping an eye on that.
Um I opted to not do the SkyRunning World Series this past
season, just too many races.
Um yeah, with five races scoringpoints plus the finale, and
pretty much all of them beingreally far travel.
(46:03):
Um it wasn't wasn't in the cardsfor me.
So we'll see uh what the rulesare for this upcoming season.
I do love the sky running races,so I would consider doing the
series again, but yeah, I wouldjust prefer if it was fewer
races.
SPEAKER_00 (46:17):
Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Uh what I was kind of threadingthe needle with on that was uh
Minotaur, because it's kind of abackground backyard race for
you.
You're obviously a formerchampion, you've been on the
podium twice now.
Like, what does that race meanto you?
It's got to be very special,especially because it's it's
like kind of right there foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (46:34):
Oh gosh, yeah, it's it's as you said, very special.
It feels like such a communityrace.
It's amazing what the organizershave done.
They've like built the trailsthemselves by hand.
It's so cool.
Um yeah, I believe actually thisyear it will not be on the World
Series, but it is going to bethe Canadian uh Skyrunning
(46:57):
Championships, I think.
And it's like a still has thetoken of being uh International
Federation of Skyrunning orsomething like that.
Um, and they've also added a VK,so they've got they have the VK,
the mini tar that's a 10K, andthen the Minotaur, which is the
30 something K.
(47:17):
Um, so in theory you could dothe triple crown now, which is
kind of cool.
Um, yeah, no, it's I raced itthree times, and every time I
learn so much more about it andabout myself, and it's that to
me is what skyrunning andmountain running is.
You know, it's going up and downgnarly terrain, being kind of
(47:40):
like out there.
You really feel like you're inthe wild on that course and
you're on some fairly narrowridges and doing actual scree
running.
Um yeah, it's it's a really,really special course.
I encourage anyone who's able tomake it out for it.
It's such a special feel.
SPEAKER_00 (47:59):
Yeah.
And very commute, I think thecommunity aspect of it too is
super special.
Like I've communicated with therace directors in the past for
like start lists and things likethat to do race previews, and
they're always so kind andinviting and like super nice
about it.
Like, I don't know.
Everybody is just um everybodyI've interacted with at that
race has just been so kind.
So yeah, it's uh and the course,I mean, I think it was Jackson
(48:20):
that told me, like, I think youjust said something along the
lines of like it was hand built.
Like it sounds like they builtthat course for that race, more
or less.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (48:28):
Yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
Exactly that's so crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
Um it's so crazy, and the passion that went into
it, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (48:37):
Yeah, I was bummed it was uh uh it was uh canceled
this year.
My buddy was literally gettingon his plane to to fly out there
to go do the race, and literallygot the notification as he's
getting on the plane that it wascancelled.
It was like, ah, that's that's abummer.
So hopefully they're able tohold it this year.
SPEAKER_02 (48:53):
Yeah, I hope so too.
Yeah, we were all bummed, ofcourse, at the time that we
heard the news.
I was on a rope swing with uhsome friends, one from who came
from Norway for the series.
Um, but yeah, it's uh it's atricky time in the mountains
here.
I mean, any time of year, butJune, like as what happened, we
(49:14):
got a huge snowstorm and theymade the right call canceling
it.
It would have been not good outthere.
SPEAKER_00 (49:21):
Yeah, oh yeah.
No, see, especially after seeingsome of the photos, was like, oh
my gosh.
Like it's one thing for theelites to be out there, it's a
whole other thing for you know,just for a whole giant group of
people, and that just creates ayeah, if people need to be
rescued, it just it just createsa mess.
It's not good.
Um, yeah, it's it's it's a weirdthing, like holding uh races on
(49:41):
mountains and stuff like that.
Like I'm I I am affiliated withPikes Peak, and it's always an
interesting conversationthinking about like we send
people on a 14,000 foot mountainup 13 and a half miles and then
down, and it's like the rescuethat goes involved.
It's always like such aninteresting thing with uh trying
to figure out logistics andstuff like that.
It's uh big time, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
Yeah, so much goes on behind the scenes.
I that's a race that I want todo.
SPEAKER_00 (50:05):
Really?
Oh, well, hey, there's no worldsthis year.
If you're interested, let meknow.
We'll you're we'll put you righton the start list.
Like I'll give you an entry now.
When is it?
Uh it's gonna be September,whatever that Saturday is,
September 20th or 21st in 2026,whatever that that's at like the
second to last Saturday inSeptember for the ascent, and
then the the marathon will be onSunday.
SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
So I think the ascent sounds more fun.
SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
Yeah.
Oh, I especially for someonelike you with the vertical.
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
Now we'll uh we'll be in touchabout that.
We'll talk about that more.
Um I gotta ask you about thegrizzly bear situation.
Um, us in the lower 48,particularly Coloradans, like
like we don't have grizzly bearswhere we are.
Um terrifying me on the trails.
Like every time I go to Wyoming,I'm always like looking over my
(50:51):
shoulders.
It seems to be like a normalthing for you guys.
So like is that like just acommon place, like having the
bears hanging out like at thatlike that part?
SPEAKER_02 (51:01):
Yeah, it's uh it's something that we're all aware
of and that we all prep for, youknow.
Same with if you're heading uphigh, you'll throw in an extra
layer or you'll check theforecast, or if you're gonna run
at night, you'll bring headlamp.
Um it's just one other kind offactor to prepare for.
(51:24):
Um yeah.
So whether it's bringing bearspray, whether it's sometimes
you only run with a group offour or more, uh, sometimes you
just don't go in certain areas,whether that's because they have
officially been closed orbecause you're just aware of
bear activity in that area.
Um yeah, so it's a it's afactor, but it's not something
(51:45):
that we're like terrified ofhere, you know.
Of course, some people are morescared than others.
And I do have friends who haveunfortunately been attacked by
grizzly bears or have had cougarencounters.
So it's uh it's no joke, realdeal.
But um, you know, like anyhazard in the mountains, you can
(52:06):
do what you can to avoid it andprepare for it.
And uh it's your choice then ifyou accept that risk or not.
SPEAKER_00 (52:17):
Interesting.
What is your favorite animal?
I I've I've never asked anybodythis question on the podcast
yet.
I've been thinking about this alot lately.
SPEAKER_02 (52:24):
The wolverine is my favorite animal.
SPEAKER_00 (52:27):
I have a buddy that's seen one.
Have you ever seen one?
SPEAKER_02 (52:30):
I saw one this spring.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (52:32):
Oh, tell the story.
SPEAKER_02 (52:33):
Yeah, it was fantastic.
Okay, it's actually a fun story.
So it was um late April, likeafter the schemo season was
done.
I went uh with my buddy to dotry and ski Mount Joffrey, which
is a tall mountain in theRockies.
Um so like I forget what time weleft town, 3 a.m.
or 2 a.m.
(52:54):
or something, and then you'rewalking because there's not
enough snow down low.
We tried to skate ski across thelake, but it had just thawed, so
we would have drowned, whichwouldn't have been good.
So we instead ran across and umthen skied up and we encountered
just some like unfavorable snowconditions.
So we made the call to turnaround and still had a great day
(53:17):
out.
But as we were coming backacross like a smaller lake that
was still frozen, I was slightlyahead and I saw this brown lump
because at that point the sunhad risen, so there was
daylight.
And I was like, okay, that'seither a a really square rock
that had fallen, like with someavalanche debris, could be an
animal though, like it could bea bear, maybe.
(53:39):
And then it started to move, andI was like, no way, I think
that's a wolverine.
Um, but I've like marmots, wehave a lot of up here too that
are pretty big and they're kindof like also slinky close to the
rent ground.
So sometimes I've tried to trickmyself that a marmot is a
wolverine, but um, yeah, thisone kind of went behind some
avalanche debris and then itcame out behind.
(54:02):
And then by that point I knewfor sure it was a Wolverine and
just got to watch it for aboutfive minutes running up this
snow slope.
It would run for 30 seconds,stop around, look at us, keep
running, stop, kind of look,keep running.
Um, and just the like thefitness that this animal
displayed when it wasn't reallyunder threat, you know, like we
(54:25):
weren't actively chasing it, andit wasn't actively chasing
anything, and for it to justlike willingly run up this slope
for a long time was so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (54:35):
Wow, that's I'm so jealous.
That is like such like that'slike a 10 out of 10 experience
because they're so rare,apparently.
Like I have a uh a friend thatsaw one in the Wind River range.
He thought it was a black lab.
Um and he thought it was a dog.
But like there's like seven ofthem, apparently.
There's like seven, seven tofifty fifty, you don't really
know, um, in Wyoming.
(54:57):
But I guess you guys have moreof them in BC.
Or do you have I guess there's aa decent amount of them, or is
it like they're super rare upthere too?
SPEAKER_02 (55:05):
Yeah, I'd say they're still pretty rare and
definitely elusive.
Um, I think their population ison the decline, but we do have
still a fair number, andactually, like far north in
Alberta, in a place called HighLevel has a lot of Wolverines,
so not really where you'd expectthem.
But um, no, it's it's my firsttime seeing them.
(55:26):
I have seen tracks a few times,but they're I've seen more
cougar, more grizzly bear,definitely more goats, more
wolves, more coyotes, all ofthat than I have wolverines.
So pretty rare.
SPEAKER_00 (55:37):
That's so cool.
I'm so jealous.
That's yeah, like I said, 10 outof 10.
That's all life, lifeexperience.
Did you get any photos of it orwas it too far away?
SPEAKER_02 (55:46):
No, actually, I don't think I I don't think I
bothered because I just wantedto watch it.
SPEAKER_00 (55:51):
Yep.
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
Those types of experiences, it'slike I don't need to pull out
the phone.
It's like by the way, just yeah,take it in.
Super cool.
Awesome.
Well, listen, Emma, I I wannawe're at about the hour mark
now.
I wanted to say thank you somuch for your time.
This is a super fun chat.
And um, yeah, I'm wishing youthe best of luck in your
offseason.
Decompress, chill, enjoyyourself, and uh, I can't wait
(56:14):
to see what you do in 2026.
Hopefully, more VKs.
We'll talk about that at anothertime.
Um, and we'll be in touch aboutPike's Peak.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (56:21):
Okay, yeah, that sounds good.
Well, thank you so much for thechat.
It was really, really lovely tohear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (56:28):
Yeah, yeah, appreciate it.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (56:31):
Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (56:32):
Awesome, super cool.
All right, we're done recording.
Thank you so much.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
I want to thank Emma so much forcoming onto the show.
Uh, always a fun conversation.
Uh, and I'm just reallyappreciative of her time and
telling her story.
Guys, you can find her onInstagram, give her a follow,
and that's just gonna be simplyat MCook Clark.
It's gonna be linked in the shownotes.
Hop on Instagram, give her afollow, and you can learn about
(56:54):
all the fun different endeavorsin the mountains that she's
doing.
Uh, things like schemo, thingslike mountain running, um, super
fun follow.
So, guys, I hope you enjoyedthis episode.
Uh, it is uh a pleasure tocontinue to keep doing this.
Uh, we've got a lot of funthings coming down the pipeline,
lots of good announcements soonthat I'm super excited about.
Um, if you have been enjoyingthe podcast, please give us a
(57:15):
five-star rating and review onApple, Spotify, or YouTube if
you haven't already.
And uh very last but not least,we're trying to grow that uh
YouTube uh page.
So hit the subscribe button onYouTube and you can watch these
episodes in 4K video.
Um yeah, super appreciative.
Guys, we're we're coming down tothe end of the year, and uh I
can't believe it's almost over.
(57:36):
It's pretty crazy.
So thanks for tuning in.
Uh, lots to come this week andbeyond the bent.
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, James L'Oriello,and today I'm so excited to
welcome Emma Cook Clark to theshow.
The Arcterics athlete was kindenough to come on and give us
some time.
We talked all about how she gotinto the sport, her background
as well as her previous life asa firefighter, and kind of
balancing that and ultimatelyhaving to step away not too long
(00:22):
ago to go to the professionaltrail scene.
Emma has had an absolutelyinsane 2025 season, top 10 in
the world at the vertical, aswell as a bronze medal for the
Canadian uh team this year inthe vertical, which was the
first medal a Canadian team hasever scored at the uh World
(00:43):
Mountain Running Championship,which is pretty amazing.
Um we also talked a lot about alot of other races.
Um we got into Speed Goat,talked about how she figured
that race out, uh, which is arace that normally people don't
do too well at the first time.
And Emma uh landed herself um onthe podium second place for her
first run.
We also talked about Meet theMinotaur, where she is a former
(01:06):
champion.
Um, and actually it's a backyardrace for her.
We talked about what it's likeliving in Cranmore in the
greater area and getting totrain uh some of those beautiful
peaks.
It was fun, it was a greatconversation.
So I think you guys are gonnareally enjoy this one.
Super happy to have gotten theuh I get to chat and uh meet
Emma.
So without further ado, EmmaCook Clark.
(02:32):
Emma Cook Clark.
Welcome to the Steep StuffPodcast.
How's it going?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Hey James, yeah, dude, not too bad.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited to have this
conversation.
I'm such a fan of yours.
Like I've been following yourbody of work more or less for
the last few years with uhusually like race preview
episodes, obviously, you getbrought up on all the time.
And I'm just so excited tofinally be chatting with you.
So this is uh this is good stuffhere.
Um how are you doing, by theway?
How's your week going so far?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Oh, that's sweetie to say.
Thanks for the uh the nice wordsthere.
Uh yeah, week is going allright, just coming off of the
World Cup for SkiMountaineering, which was the
final race in the Olympicqualifying.
And uh yeah, unfortunately inCanada, we were just shy of
qualifying.
So I'm in a little bit of a lowfrom that, I think, just
(03:23):
processing a lot.
But uh otherwise, I'm I'm doingwell.
I'm healthy.
I had quite a bit of likesickness and injury this fall,
and knock on wood right now.
I seem to be doing pretty well.
So a lot to be grateful for.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
It's good to hear you're uh you're injury free and
doing well.
It's been a crazy year for you.
Like a lot of like high highs.
I mean, I I like I'd say thefirst thing, obviously, wedding
you had a few weeks back, andthen on top of that, you know,
getting uh, you know, you gotyou were top 10 and then third
place for Team Canada in thevertical.
Uh you were the podium of SpeedGoat.
(03:58):
Like it's been a crazy year foryou.
So like in reflection, lookingbackwards, like how how does it
feel to uh to accomplish all thethings that you've accomplished
this year?
SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
Yeah, it's uh I think I need to do a bit more
processing and reflecting,really.
Like hearing you say all those,all those things is uh it's
pretty cool.
But I think right now I'm justin the little bit of I'm fixated
on um yeah, the skimountaineering stuff and just
the the unknown of what's aheadand a bit of the grief
(04:33):
surrounding that.
Um so I'm I'm looking forward tojust continuing to process and
taking a little step back fromall that and as time goes on,
allowing myself to likecelebrate the year for what it
was, uh, because it really was aspecial year in so many ways,
from sporting to other life uhto just personal growth as well.
(04:55):
So yeah, I think in the rightnow, present moment talking to
you, I'm being quite hard onmyself, um, which is that's not
new to me, but it's somethingthat I'm uh excited to keep
working on.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Yeah.
Well, I think that's I mean, youknow, that's that's what
competitors do, you know.
I I think that if you don'tdidn't hold yourself to self to
such a high side, yeah, holdyourself to such a high
standard, um, I feel like youwouldn't be as successful,
right?
But I think it's holdingyourself to that high standard
brings a degree of success.
So listen, I I think a lot ofthe athletes listening to this,
(05:31):
and including myself, cantotally understand and totally
relate.
And, you know, it's uh it's Imean, it's definitely something
to uh to work through for sure.
I do have to ask you this likewhat does that look like for you
going forward?
Uh at least like in this part ofthe season.
Will you take time off?
Will you continue schemo?
Like what what are your um Iguess immediate plans for the
(05:52):
next few months and as thingscontinue?
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
That's a great question.
Uh I've left a lot up in theair, mostly just day by day at
this stage.
Um yeah, I I think I just wantto take a little breather and
figure out what it is that Ipersonally want and and chase
goals that are exciting to me.
Um so I'm not entirely sure, butI think uh it can be tricky
(06:19):
trying to compete in bothseasons, and that's led to some
issues in the past.
And so I I'm pretty excited, Ithink, actually to just ease
into the scheme.
I know it didn't really easeinto it with this race last
weekend, but um ease into it alittle bit more and and just do
some things for fun and take alittle pressure off my
(06:41):
shoulders.
Uh yeah, I'm looking forward tojust not recording anything, you
know, going out, doing whateverfeels right, go hard or not go
hard, just get back to kind ofhow I have loved training for so
long is going by feel and doingwhat's right condition-wise.
So yeah, looking forward togetting out for some nice powder
(07:02):
skiing, hopefully, some big daysout.
And I'm not sure.
I'm a little bit honestly burntout from all the travel.
I think it's it's so much goingbetween all the different
continents to race and havingtime away from home and spending
a lot of money traveling andthen constantly being jet legged
and worrying about your bag thatgot lost or whatever it may be.
(07:25):
Um, I definitely appreciate allthe opportunities to travel.
But right now, I'm lookingforward to just diving in a
little bit more in my localcommunity and being with family
more, being with yeah, the newhusband and uh just kind of
going day by day.
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, I think that's the way to
that's the way to do it, in myopinion.
I I think that there's listen,you know, there's a time to go
do all the fun stuff and go allover the place, but also you
also live in a very beautifulplace too.
Like Cranmore is so cool that Iwouldn't want to leave.
Like I would just want to stayand ski and run all year round.
Like I you couldn't get me outof those mountains.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
It is hard.
It's funny.
Every time I drive to theairport, I'm like, why?
Why am I leaving these beautifulmountains to go to other
beautiful mountains?
But no, I I certainly, as Isaid, appreciate every
opportunity to travel and seethe world and experience
different cultures.
But you're right, Canmore is aspectacular place and it's kind
of um it's not really felt likehome over the last few years,
(08:27):
solely because I haven't beenthere much.
So I'm like looking forward tobeing there a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
Oh, it's crazy.
Well, we'll have to we'll talk alittle bit more about Cranmore
and just like what it's likeliving and training as we get
further in on the episode.
But I think before um before weget started, I do want to kind
of take a left-hand turn andmaybe go back in your past.
Uh, you have such an interestingbackstory.
Like everything I've learned inmy research, like from rugby to
firefighting, like such aninteresting uh group of things
(08:55):
that you've done.
Maybe maybe talk about your yourrelationship with sport, how you
got into sport, um, and kind ofwalk me through some of those
earlier years.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
Sure.
Yeah, I I uh grew up with anolder brother.
He's two and a half years older.
So I think I always looked up tohim and just tried to chase him
around and also get chased byhim.
So sport was always a part of mylife um in a like a playful
sense, but then also acompetitive sense.
(09:26):
I did some competitivegymnastics in I think grade five
and six, which just set a reallygood foundation, both physically
but also mentally, for dealingwith pressure, having to stay
dedicated, you know, showing upon time, the consequences of
sport, the highs and lows, allthat.
Um, but that was superstructured.
(09:47):
Then I quit that and did moresoccer throughout the other, the
other grades and some rugby.
But yeah, I think sport's justalways been um a way for me to
express myself, a way for me toburn off some energy, um, and a
way to just like feel reallyalive, I suppose, by seeing what
(10:09):
the body can do, seeing what themind can do as well while you're
at it.
And it's um it's I think one ofmy favorite ways to communicate
with other people too, whetheryou're on the same team or
whether you're competing kind ofagainst each other in more of an
individual sport, that sort ofthing.
But it's just it's so so cool tohave that fairly shared
(10:30):
experience, even though it'sit's unique to each individual.
But um yeah, I bit of a bit ofmy relationship with sport, I
guess, there.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
That's interesting.
Talk to me about how how didyou, like I said, in my
research, I found out that youhad played rugby.
I I find it so interestingbecause you know, like I mean,
my background, obviously, I grewup in in America, I grew up in
South Florida, Florida.
It's more soccer-based.
That was kind of like my primarysport.
And, you know, you grow uphearing about rugby, and it's a
contact sport.
Like rugby's legit.
(11:01):
Talk about this.
Talk about how like you got intothe sport and uh just the
foundation of that, and if thathad any lasting impression on
you.
SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Yeah, the high school I went to, uh, shout out
to Bonas High in Calgary.
Rugby was one of the main sportsthere, and they had a history of
doing quite well in it.
And some of the teams even wentover to New Zealand to play in
tournaments, which was reallycool.
So uh that was part of thereason for joining the team.
(11:31):
And in high school and juniorhigh, I just wanted to be on
every team that I could.
Again, it was such a fun way torelate with people, to push
myself to grow, to get theseneat experiences.
Um, I just couldn't couldn't getenough, really.
It felt so fun and so freeing.
Uh, so I decided to try rugby.
(11:52):
I had played some basketball andthen obviously soccer as well.
And in those, you do, they'renot so much contact sports, but
you still have contact and youhave to be pretty feisty and
stand up for yourself and standup for your teammates.
And I am a bit like smaller instature, but also had the
running legs.
So I was pretty suited for thewing and fullback positions,
(12:15):
which are yeah, a lot ofrunning, some contact for sure,
but not you're not like holdingup the whole scrum.
And it's a really cool sport.
I miss playing it.
It's like such a such a teamdynamic where you really need
your teammates and and trustthem and work really well
together.
And no one person can carry thewhole team on their back, you
(12:38):
know.
You have to really work togetherand be a little bit selfless in
it as well.
SPEAKER_00 (12:42):
I mean, it I mean, this is uh like I the first
thing I think of is likeAmerican football, right?
Because that's contact sport.
A little bit, obviously, there'ssignificant differences, but I
guess that's the closest likeparallel that I draw toward.
Um, obviously it's quite aphysical sport.
Like, did you ever likeconcussions or have any issues
with that?
Like, was that like ever um athing, or were you able to kind
(13:04):
of avoid any injury like thatkind of going through the sport?
SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Yeah, no, it's certainly high impact and uh
high potential.
Lots of injuries were witnessedfor sure, whether it be in
gameplay or practice.
Um, I probably got a few minorconcussions, but didn't I was
sort of concussions were juststarting to be taken seriously.
Um but no, I managed to mostlycome away unscathed.
(13:32):
I did have some shoulderdislocation happen, which I've
now had surgery on, but um thatwas partly just like genetic and
had some instability to beginwith.
But um no, it it certainly wasnot a chill sport and had lots
of practices where you finishedoff in an ice bath because it
(13:53):
was so painful and you'rebruised everywhere.
Um, but it I guess the thecontact part was one of the
reasons that I chose not to keepplaying in university.
I was choosing between runningand rugby, and rugby would have
been really cool, but I justthought, okay, it's at this now
adult level, you know, the womenare even bigger, and I would
(14:15):
have needed to get a lot biggermyself and thought uh let's try
running and then can go back torugby if I if I want to or miss
it, and or if I found runningtoo boring.
But no, the the injury piece ishuge and longevity is important
to me as well to be able to keepmoving and doing fun things for
(14:37):
my whole life.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
So true, so true.
How how did skiing and mountainrunning kind of come into the
fold for you?
Like I've heard in uh in acouple previous episodes with
you, you know, you've talkedabout identifying more as a
mountain athlete more so thanjust a runner.
Like talk and and I think when Ithink of mountain athlete, I
think of encompassing both thosesports of mountain running and
skiing and being in thiswell-rounded type of athlete.
(15:01):
How did that like not justlifestyle, but how did just uh
full circle that come about foryou?
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Hmm.
Yeah, my parents have alwaysbrought us out doing lots in the
mountains.
So from a young age, I think Iwas just moving in the mountains
in whatever way made sense.
If it's winter, you're probablyskiing because there's no sense
running.
If you're on a long, like Idon't know, yeah, trail or you
want to cover a lot of ground,you're mountain biking or gravel
(15:30):
biking or road biking.
If you're wanting to be onwater, you're canoeing or
kayaking or stand-uppaddleboarding.
And if you're wanting to do morevertical terrain, you're either
running or climbing.
So I just have been, I guess,gifted this set of skills to
navigate in whichever way eitheris most inspiring or makes most
(15:50):
sense.
And that combined with the likea bit more organized sport
background, I think I was ableto have some pretty good fitness
throughout my life.
And um after finishingcross-country and track and
field, was more into being inthe mountains, and that always
is where it felt most excitingto me as opposed to being on a
(16:12):
track or a road, and just reallyfreeing to go move your body in
the way that feels good.
Um, I think it, you know, youhear some people say, Oh, I hate
the gym or I don't like running,it hurts, or whatever.
But for me, if you're out on atrail, it's such a different
story, and it's you're you'rejust it's like not a chore at
(16:35):
that stage.
You're yeah, you're able to movefreely and just cover more
ground than if you were hiking.
Um, so the running, runningpiece feels yeah, just like this
really cool exploration, Isuppose, of where you're at in
your landscape and uh thesimplicity of it too, where it's
(16:57):
pretty much just your body isreally special as well.
Um, yeah, and I guess sort ofthe same thing goes for the ski
mountaineering, just startedfrom the love of exploring and
navigating the outdoors andusing my body, and um again
living in such a spectacularpart of the world, there's
endless places to go.
(17:19):
And you look at a map andanywhere you see, you could you
could go explore somehow, andyou'd probably get a lot out of
it.
And so it's been it's been easyto want to progress in many
sports.
SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
When you when you first started skiing, and same
with mountain running, like wereyou good at it right away
because you had fitness totranslate?
I know obviously skiing is asignificantly more technical,
there's way more to learn.
Running is a bit moresignificantly, I don't want to
say easy because that doesn'tthat's not really the right
word, but it's easy to put on ashoes and kind of pair of shoes
and kind of figure that out.
Were you good at it right away,or did it take time for you to
(17:57):
progress and and get good andand learn and get better?
SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
Yeah, uh good question.
I mean, it for sure takes timeand I'm still trying to progress
and get better.
Um but I I do think that kind ofin the backstory of having a
foundation from such a youngage, I maybe had a pretty high
like level of physical literacyalready.
(18:25):
Um I had some strong fitnessbase.
And and the other thing withmountain, both mountain running
and ski mountaineering isthere's certainly like a fear
piece to it.
Um and it can feel verycommitting.
But I I think I, though I mightlast lack of self-confidence in
other ways, in the confidence inlike what I can do in terrain,
(18:47):
uh, I think that was fairlyhigh.
And so I was able to continueprogressing at a rapid rate
there.
Um, yeah, for instance, likedownhill running, I know it can
be pretty intimidating for a lotof people, or just being out in
the backcountry on your own oror without many people, it can
feel more risky, which it is.
Uh, but uh we can we can alsohold ourselves back by being a
(19:10):
little too worried, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
That's true.
That's true.
Was there any like one I lookedback in your in your uh results,
obviously, but was like thereone race that you started doing
in mountain running that likegot you hooked on the sport that
you're like, okay, yeah, this isthis is something I want to
continue to pursue because I Ireally enjoy this.
SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
That's a good question.
I I went to the world champsmany years ago, I forget what
year exactly, like 2018 or 2017or something like that.
But I hadn't been doing muchmountain running at all.
I was living in northernAlberta, which was really flat,
and uh I think I did a few roadraces that summer, and then I
(19:51):
unfortunately got a stressreaction in my foot, so I like
went into this race totally nottrained.
Um, and I did the race and Itfelt okay, but it's uh I'm sure
you can relate to this feeling.
Like when you show up and you'renot really ready at all.
Oh yeah.
And then you perform and it'slike you know it's well below
what you're capable of, like youcan be proud of it in some ways
(20:14):
and sure, oh I did the best forwhat the like I did what I could
on the day, which I do think isa great attitude, but still like
you can't be fully wellpersonally, I can't be fully um
stoked or satisfied on itbecause I've you know, you're
always still questioning, ohwell, what could I do, you know,
if I if I really was ready,which that's a whole other
conversation of are we everready?
(20:36):
Anyway, so that race, it wasamazing to see the world stage
and and just be super inspiredby everyone from all around the
world.
But I I kind of like put out ofmy mind and uh went down a
different career path and wasfocused on that.
So I think the turning point forme was in um 2021, or I believe,
(20:57):
uh this local shopping can orskip hill put on a virtual
challenge during the pandemic.
Um, so it was like a king orqueen of the hill.
So it was a bracket-stylecompetition, kind of like March
Madness.
Um, and they only timed like itwas only the uphill segment that
counted.
And I think there were 64 likewomen and 64 men, and at the
(21:20):
end, like it's just whoever hasthe fastest time that moves on
each week.
And so that's really what kickstarted me.
I'd never really timed thingsuphill before.
Um, and that's also how I wasnoticed by my current sponsor,
ArcTaryx.
So I yeah, I think that thatcompetition is what really kind
(21:42):
of was the turning point of oh,hey, this is not only like
really, really fun and you enjoythe movement and the hurt and
the camaraderie, but also youhave some talent and maybe it's
worth actually pursuing this alittle bit more.
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Wow, that's so interesting.
So that's how Arctaryx found youand like scouted you as talent
for them.
That's so crazy.
How did that getting picked upby Arctaryx?
Like, how was that?
Was it life-changing at all foryou?
Or was it just like, okay, now Ihave support to go do these
amazing races and do all thesethings that I would love to do
as an athlete?
Or was it like another level oflike, oh my gosh, this is so
(22:19):
cool kind of thing?
Like, how was that as far aslife-changing for you?
SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
Oh, totally life-changing.
Uh, it's something that I hadnever thought about, you know,
like never considered beingstrong enough to have a
sponsorship.
Uh, again, that partly comesdown to that self-confidence
piece, but it just wasn't like apath that I thought that I was
capable of or had evenconsidered pursuing.
Um, and so for I rememberreceiving the message and they
(22:47):
asked if I had any sponsorshipconflicts, and I just burst out
laughing, like, wow, that's socool of you to think that I
might have conflicts.
Like, no, absolutely not.
Um, so yeah, I I think just thatthat belief that that this
company and the individualsworking there had in me was so
(23:08):
huge and instrumental in meputting a bit more effort into
it.
Like I would definitely not bewhere I'm at now if it weren't
for that opportunity.
Uh, which is it's prettyspecial.
Well, really special.
SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
Yeah, it's amazing.
I mean, I have uh, I mean,obviously, I've had quite a few
of your teammates on the podcastbefore.
Just the benefits and some ofthe cool stuff you guys get.
Like being able to, I mean,everything from I mean, you
could name the list, like notjust like gear and everything
you get, but also like beingable to have um what was Jesse
McCauley telling me?
I think it was like access toum, I guess like the sports
(23:45):
psych and all different kinds ofthings like you guys get, which
is so cool.
Uh like it's like I I don'tknow, I find it very cool or
interesting because that's likea real level of professionalism
in the sport.
Like you are, that's true,you're a professional athlete
and you're getting all the perksto help you optimize all of the
things that you're doing.
And I find that to be like I I Ihope I wish all brands would do
(24:06):
that and do something similar.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
I agree.
It's amazing.
Certainly fortunate to have thatand to have just the wellness
piece be at the top of thepriority.
Of course, they are encouragingof strong results and that sort
of thing, but first andforemost, they want us to be
well and do well.
Um which, yeah, it's reallyrefreshing.
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Yeah.
Super cool.
All right.
I wanna I want to shift gears alittle bit.
If you maybe it was a year ago,maybe less, not so long ago, you
stepped away from being afirefighter.
Can you can you talk about thatlike time in your life of being
a firefighter and what thatmeant to you and like what what
you did like as a as a career?
Talk about that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, so I started my firecareer doing wildland fire while
I was in university.
So the summers of that, I wentout and worked in the bush all
summer.
It was an incredible experience.
Have met so many amazing peopleand got to do so many really
cool things and give back in alot of ways.
It was a perfect summer job,getting to be physical, be
(25:14):
outside and and work with goodpeople.
Those are kind of like some ofmy my top top things in life,
using my body being outside anddoing that with with good people
and working together.
So um, yeah, that was sort ofthe intro.
And in that time, I was studyingenvironmental science.
So I did a little bit of workwith that too.
(25:34):
And a few of the guys on my crewwere applying for the fire
department.
So I was like, well, might aswell.
Like it's free to apply.
Um, so I put the name in, andthen there was it's many steps.
It took uh three years, all forone application between between
when I applied and when Istarted.
(25:55):
Um but uh that that was great,you know, it allowed me to live
so much life in between, andevery step was of course not a
guarantee.
So I just tried to take it onestep at a time.
And um, as I progressed and gotfurther along in the process, I
became more and more keen on itand more invested.
And yeah, it ultimately uh itworked out.
(26:17):
So I spent uh four and a halfyears working for a structural
fire department as a full-timeprofessional firefighter, and it
was uh a whole lot of things,you know, it was really
challenging in some ways, superrewarding in others, uh held me
accountable.
(26:37):
Um yeah, I I loved many parts ofit and being able to serve the
community was really special.
Um but then these opportunitieswith sport just started to
increase and increase andincrease.
And it was not easy to make thedecision to leave, that's for
sure.
But uh I also definitelyunderstand that life is short
(27:02):
and and that it's notguaranteed.
And uh there's so many ways thatwe can be productive in life and
add value to the world and togive back.
And so a large hesitation waswell, I don't want to leave
because I'll be a quitter andI'll be quitting on my
community, I'll be quitting onthose I work with.
They've invested in me, la, I'llbe quitting on myself.
(27:26):
Um, but more and more I'vestarted to to question that and
to realize that we can, youknow, have positive impact in so
many other ways.
And um I can go back to to thatcareer if I want.
Uh I yeah, there's there'snothing holding me back.
And when I one of the things I Idid tell myself was in my class,
(27:48):
a lot of most people, I think Iwas the second youngest, so most
people were quite a bit older asthey got into the career.
And so in that sense, I waslike, you know what, you can
just like start over.
That's fine.
You can go and and live thisother path that's like pretty
cool to be able to do, you know.
(28:09):
I'm I feel very fortunate tohave, yes, won that lottery
ticket and being able to be astructural firefighter, but to
have also won this other lotteryticket of having a a body and a
mind and these opportunities andand support network that I'm
able to pursue sport for at thistime of my life.
SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
It's interesting, right?
I don't know.
I feel like uh, and I think alot of the listeners would
probably understand this or ormaybe uh connect with this, but
like not just in America butworldwide, like we're I think a
lot of people are verycareer-driven to like I pick
this one thing and I'm gonna dothis one thing for the rest of
my life until I retire and thenit's over.
And it's like I don't know, I Idon't like that.
(28:50):
I feel like life should be aseries of like mini retirements
and trying different things andgetting a chance to do those
things.
And I think you're a perfectexample of that.
Getting you you have this, youknow, firefighting is completely
different than mountain runningand professional skiing.
It's like it's it couldn't befurther away from it, but it's
cool because you're you youknow, you have this life and you
you transition to do somethingnew as an athlete.
(29:12):
Like you said, you can always goback to it, and also you could
try new things and other things.
I I like that open-mindednessapproach to life because um,
yeah, when you just try to putsomething in a box, I just think
that uh, you know, people arecapable of so many different
things, not just one thing, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
Right.
Yeah, and and we change and ourcircumstances change, and it's
there's nothing wrong withstaying with a career for your
entire life if it fulfills youand um yeah, fulfills your needs
and you're happy with it.
Um, but there's also I thinkmaybe less shame than there used
(29:50):
to be about leaving somethingand and taking a chance on
yourself and trying somethingnew.
And um I think that there's somuch crossover between sport and
life and work and education, youknow, like we gain so many
skills in everything that we dothat can be transferred to
(30:11):
everything else that we do,yeah.
So it's not it's not a loss.
Um yeah, we're just kind of likeculmination of all we've done
and all of our experience, andthat's that's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
How did you in this career firefight?
Like there obviously there's asubstantial degree of danger.
There's also danger in mountainrunning, too.
I mean, you live in Canmore,there's grizzly bears, there's
all kinds of stuff.
What uh we'll talk about grizzlybears later, but like how did
you deal with the dangers ofthat?
Um I I think this is more atwo-part question.
One, how did you deal with thedangers of the profession?
(30:50):
But also, um, I'm sure you as afirefighter, at least I know
from the firefighters I knowdown here, um, more of a team
kind of thing.
Everyone, like there's kind of ait's a big group and you can't
let your team members down.
It's very important.
Like how how how did you dealwith that?
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yeah, well, I almost want to guess what the second
part of this question is, but uhit's pretty similar dealing with
that risk as it is to dealingwith outdoor risk, you know.
Uh you don't jump into a burningbuilding without any training,
you don't jump in without yourproper equipment on, you don't
jump in with already making aplan with who you're doing it
(31:29):
with, uh and having strongcommunication.
And so, yeah, it you're you'reequipped with all these tools to
manage the risk and to mitigatedanger.
And so you shouldn't actually bethat scared.
Because if you're that scared,you probably shouldn't be there,
(31:50):
you know, like it's it'spossibly too risky to be there,
you know.
Maybe it's an imminent structurecollapse, and like you're not
gonna put the fire out, yougotta get out, and then change
your approach.
And so you're constantlyreevaluating and anchoring in on
what the situation's doing toensure that you and your crew
(32:13):
aren't somewhere that youshouldn't be.
Um, there's also kind of the thesaying that we'll risk a lot to
save a lot, but if you're notsaving a lot, you shouldn't be
risking a lot.
Um, and so that's a little bitof a you know, a benchmark, I
suppose, too, of there's say aconfirmed person trapped in a
(32:38):
building that's on fire.
Like that is something that youis worth risking a lot because
you could save a lot, um, asopposed to you know something
that's like lower stakes.
There's no sense puttingyourself or your crew at at that
much more danger if it's like ahigh likelihood too of something
(32:58):
bad happening.
Um so yeah, I guess in summary,good training and staying on top
of training, uh, not gettingcomplacent is huge.
I think that's a really big one.
And uh one thing that I learnedin my wildfire days was
experience does not necessarilyuh mean competency, you know,
(33:23):
like that those aren't directlyrelated.
So just because someone's beendoing it for 20 years doesn't
mean that like they're betterthan the person who's been doing
it for 10 years.
Um yeah, it's just uh it's sodifferent depending on what what
experience you have.
And I think that not not gettingcomplacent is a big one.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
Interesting.
Yeah, no, and thank you forpainting a picture and helping
to uh because I don't know, andlike helping paint the picture
for the audience as well, justbecause it's I don't know, it's
a very unique um thing.
And I don't know, like we couldtalk about running all day and
talk about skiing all day, butyou know, I think it's also uh
you get a lot out of the otherthings, and I find this to be a
very interesting topic.
So appreciate that.
(34:05):
We're gonna go back to runningnow.
Um I gotta I'm gonna make aleft-hand turn and uh I gotta
ask you about worlds.
Um humble brag, but I had TeamCanada in my podium um when I
was picking picking teams forthe uphill.
Um what does it feel like to belike number 10 like in the
uphill on the planet, which iskind of cool.
(34:25):
One, and two, what was yourexperience like at Worlds?
Did you have a good time thisyear?
SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
Yeah, I had a fun time.
It was it was so special to beover there with the team and
with people from all around theworld.
It's a really unique event.
Um, yeah, I got over there nottoo far in advance from the
race, which can be good and bad.
I think in hindsight, I feltsuper like uh, I don't know,
(34:52):
just not fiery in the race, youknow.
Um and unique type of race too,like fairly short duration-wise.
You're only going up, so you'renot really having to hold
anything back.
And as far as what I've beendoing lately, it was fairly low
angle, you know, a lot ofactually running.
I think our first kilometer waslike a 330k on an incline road,
(35:18):
which is pretty fast for anincline on uh on a VK.
Um, yeah, so I I wasn't actuallyfeeling that awesome in the
race.
I wasn't able to just run myrace, I think.
I was really in my head.
I kept looking at my watch, Ikept looking around, and uh
(35:40):
yeah, just like wasn't the moststoked on myself, I suppose.
But um like the body felt prettygood, and uh I think even with
the kind of doubts, I was ableto throw down a fairly
consistent effort throughout.
Um so yeah, I'm I'm prettypleased with it.
I mean, it's hard to be sad witha top 10 at World Champs, you
(36:03):
know, especially in like adiscipline that I didn't feel
that I had trained thatspecifically for.
Um but yeah, I think just alongthe lines of I do want what's
the best out of myself, youknow.
And um, I think maybe because Iwasn't having a super like fun
(36:25):
race mentally, I was leftwanting a bit more.
But uh again, that's justsomething that I'm trying to
work on.
And what I think what was reallycool was finishing third as a
team.
Um, to see Jade throughout therace was so encouraging, you
(36:47):
know, and to know that the othergals are out there working hard.
I think that's my favorite partof team type races is you really
do feel like it's more than you.
And you're able to think ofthose teammates who are out
there working so extremely hardand knowing that every place
matters no matter where you'reat in the field.
(37:08):
Um, yeah, it just like bringsout this special, special
dynamic, I suppose.
So finishing and seeing howclosely all four of us came in
was super positive.
And to put Canada on the map andlike getting our first ever team
medal at the Mountain InteriorRunning World Champs is super
(37:29):
special and definitely proud ofthat.
And it's something that I I hopewill continue to propel Canada
and mountain running.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
That's so crazy.
I I I gotta ask you this.
Will we see you?
Because that's the thing, likeyou're you've got a lot of
talent for uphill running, and Ifeel like you race more
different stuff betweenskyrunning and and um more
mountain running-based things.
Will we be seeing you doing moreVKs in the future?
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
That's a great question.
I don't know.
I need a life coach.
I think I have so many questionsright now about what I want to
do, what I should do, all that.
Um, yeah, part of me wants tolike try and do a fast 5K on the
road, but the other part of meis like, no, your body probably
will break with that.
Um and uh yeah, I've 50K hasbeen my longest race, so of
(38:20):
course I'm tempted to dosomething longer.
But um, no, right now I I amenjoying the short stuff, and I
really enjoyed these like shortschemo races that I didn't think
I would like.
But the anyway, from the likethree-minute race to the
40-minute race, I I have reallybeen liking.
So yeah, I I wouldn't be opposedto doing some more VKs.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Yeah, we'll see.
I mean, the talent is there,it's crazy.
Like, you're like, I mean,obviously, the proof is in the
pudding, like top 10 in theworld.
That's that's such a especiallythere was only these are the
best people in the world doingthis.
Um, so yeah, that's that'sreally cool.
I don't know.
I get very excited about thatstuff.
I'm like, wow, like we shoulddefinitely uh pursue that.
I gotta ask you one morequestion about the race.
You know, from everybody that Italked to in the race, they all
(39:04):
said the same thing.
Like it just it's so chaotic.
Like it bottleneck, andespecially there was like a nice
big bottleneck.
I know from the men's race, atleast, there was a lot of
discussion around thisbottleneck of when you came off
the road and onto the trail,people kind of got gapped up
there.
Did you struggle with that atall, or were you able to kind of
find your place pretty easilyonce you got in the mix?
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Yeah, definitely a bottleneck.
Um, going from this wide openuphill pavement road to like
super narrow and steep androcky, and there's this like
staircase at the start.
Um definitely felt panicky, likeit didn't feel like you could
just relax into it.
But I I was able to get a prettystrong start, possibly too
(39:47):
strong, um, on the road.
But I knew that that wasimportant to get a good spot.
And then um yeah, I had to takelike a few elbows in the chest
or whatever, but I I didn't findit was too bad in the
bottleneck, but again, I I wentout like hard enough to not be
stuck behind.
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
I mean, I was I was amazed.
I lurked your strava.
You were dropping like 550, 530gaps on there, and I was like,
yo, that's that's pretty fast.
You were moving.
So yeah, it's crazy how fastthat race starts.
Um and just what a consistent uhfinish.
So very cool.
Congratulations to you.
Um I do want to talk a littlebit about Speed Goat too.
(40:28):
I gotta, I gotta, I was sointrigued by this year because
three women went under thecourse record.
Um, you of course, um, you know,uh so like it was just such an
amazing race to follow alongthis year.
That's a tough race.
And this was, I think, yourfirst time running it, right?
You nailed it kind of the firsttime.
Um what were your thoughts onthat?
(40:49):
Like, will you go back to thatrace and try and win it?
Or is it are you a one and donefor Speed Goat?
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
Oh no, I I would certainly consider going back.
I did enjoy it.
It's a beautiful course, and Iit was it's at elevation, which
adds an element and can bereally hard and then has a
decent amount of birth.
But um, and I I guess anytimethat a course is hosted at a ski
hill, I'm a little hesitantbecause running only ski hills
(41:17):
doesn't feel quite as fun andwild, but the course is
phenomenal.
You've got some like a littlebit technical, not as technical
as skyrunning, of course, butyou cover some some cool terrain
and get a lot of really greatviews.
Um, and I really enjoyed theatmosphere.
So no, I I'm not opposed togoing back, but yeah, it's
definitely a a bit of a grind.
SPEAKER_00 (41:38):
Yeah.
Yeah, I feel like it's you andMalle Noise that like seem to
have that course figured out.
And it's uh it's a I mean, it'sjust it seems to eat people
alive, like for some reason.
People don't do very well uh inthat race.
What the other thing I wasamazed at too is like I I um I
think it was on I think Korosdid a post with you uh on like
heart rate zones.
(41:58):
Um and you were able to keeplike how the hell did you keep
yourself in zone two for fiveand a half hours and not like
let your heart rate spike?
Like you were so consistent andable to keep yourself within the
heart rate zone.
I find that incrediblyimpressive to not like get like
ubrists and you know have tolike try and catch someone or or
you know spike your heart rateand things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:19):
Hmm.
Wow, that's that's uh attentionto detail looking into those
stats.
Um yeah, I that's funny, Ididn't I hadn't even looked at
that that critically.
But um that's partly because Ionly kind of recently have
started using a watch.
I used to just use a Casio allthe time, or not even.
(42:39):
Um, and so I think that that hashelped immensely because I'm so
used to just going by feel andknowing that that race was the
longest distance race I'd done,plus it had quite a lot of vert,
plus it's at altitude, plus itwas hot, you know, there's all
these factors.
I knew that there'd be so muchtime to go hard and go fast if I
(43:00):
was feeling good in like thesecond half or the final third
or even the final descent.
And yeah, I guess just likethrough some experience, I've
learned that it can be superdetrimental to go out too hard.
Um, another I I think thing thathelped in this race was I hadn't
had much solid training, and soI went from finishing schemo
(43:24):
like end of April and then dealtwith some kind of nasty Achilles
stuff because in the winter Ididn't really run that much
because it was so much skiingand it's snowy everywhere,
la-da-da.
And then you get back to runningand your body's like, okay, hang
on.
I know you've got the fitness,but actually, structurally,
we're not ready for this.
Um, so yeah, my my trainingleading into speed goat, I
(43:46):
wasn't that confident on.
I think I had run um 22kilometers was my longest run
leading into the 50k.
Um, and so that I again comingback to this lack of confidence,
but I think that actually helpedme pace the race, you know.
Like I started off and was justsuper chill.
(44:09):
I a large part of me thoughtthat I actually wouldn't finish
the race.
Um, and so I was just going outand trying to not get too
stressed, trying to stayrelaxed.
I was chatting with people onthe whole first climb, um, and
just taking it kind of one stepat a time.
And that that pacing, I guess,helped keep my heart rate low
(44:29):
and and keep me able to stayconsistent throughout the the
duration of the six hours.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
Yo, I'm astonished.
That's crazy.
Especially because I don't know,like I think like especially on
the climbs at altitude to keepyour heart rate that like keep
your like just keep things incheck.
Like I one of the things I thinkabout that race is what you've
said, and I think to nail itcorrectly, you just can't go too
hard.
Like you have to find that likea rhythm more or less um for the
(44:56):
ascent and for the the for uhrunning downhill as well.
So super interesting.
Um yeah, so it's interesting.
So you will go back, or at somepoint in time, possibly, just
because I don't know.
I feel like you know, with thebackground that you had on
there, you know, to go back andyou could probably run another
amazing time.
So that'd be cool to see youback there.
SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
Yeah, thanks.
Uh no, it's certainly on theradar.
I don't know what this nextseason will we'll have in store,
but uh I I won't write off SpeedGoat, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:27):
Yeah, on that top on that topic, I think the World
Skyrunner series drops hercalendar tonight or tomorrow.
I think we're supposed to knowmore, something like that.
I don't know.
Are you aware of this?
I have I've just I I try to keepuh keep tabs on the sport.
I don't know too much, but yay.
SPEAKER_02 (45:43):
I uh I haven't I don't have my calendar marked
with it, but uh I will I will bekeeping an eye on that.
Um I opted to not do the SkyRunning World Series this past
season, just too many races.
Um yeah, with five races scoringpoints plus the finale, and
pretty much all of them beingreally far travel.
(46:03):
Um it wasn't wasn't in the cardsfor me.
So we'll see uh what the rulesare for this upcoming season.
I do love the sky running races,so I would consider doing the
series again, but yeah, I wouldjust prefer if it was fewer
races.
SPEAKER_00 (46:17):
Yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
Uh what I was kind of threadingthe needle with on that was uh
Minotaur, because it's kind of abackground backyard race for
you.
You're obviously a formerchampion, you've been on the
podium twice now.
Like, what does that race meanto you?
It's got to be very special,especially because it's it's
like kind of right there foryou.
SPEAKER_02 (46:34):
Oh gosh, yeah, it's it's as you said, very special.
It feels like such a communityrace.
It's amazing what the organizershave done.
They've like built the trailsthemselves by hand.
It's so cool.
Um yeah, I believe actually thisyear it will not be on the World
Series, but it is going to bethe Canadian uh Skyrunning
(46:57):
Championships, I think.
And it's like a still has thetoken of being uh International
Federation of Skyrunning orsomething like that.
Um, and they've also added a VK,so they've got they have the VK,
the mini tar that's a 10K, andthen the Minotaur, which is the
30 something K.
(47:17):
Um, so in theory you could dothe triple crown now, which is
kind of cool.
Um, yeah, no, it's I raced itthree times, and every time I
learn so much more about it andabout myself, and it's that to
me is what skyrunning andmountain running is.
You know, it's going up and downgnarly terrain, being kind of
(47:40):
like out there.
You really feel like you're inthe wild on that course and
you're on some fairly narrowridges and doing actual scree
running.
Um yeah, it's it's a really,really special course.
I encourage anyone who's able tomake it out for it.
It's such a special feel.
SPEAKER_00 (47:59):
Yeah.
And very commute, I think thecommunity aspect of it too is
super special.
Like I've communicated with therace directors in the past for
like start lists and things likethat to do race previews, and
they're always so kind andinviting and like super nice
about it.
Like, I don't know.
Everybody is just um everybodyI've interacted with at that
race has just been so kind.
So yeah, it's uh and the course,I mean, I think it was Jackson
(48:20):
that told me, like, I think youjust said something along the
lines of like it was hand built.
Like it sounds like they builtthat course for that race, more
or less.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02 (48:28):
Yep, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
Exactly that's so crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
Um it's so crazy, and the passion that went into
it, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (48:37):
Yeah, I was bummed it was uh uh it was uh canceled
this year.
My buddy was literally gettingon his plane to to fly out there
to go do the race, and literallygot the notification as he's
getting on the plane that it wascancelled.
It was like, ah, that's that's abummer.
So hopefully they're able tohold it this year.
SPEAKER_02 (48:53):
Yeah, I hope so too.
Yeah, we were all bummed, ofcourse, at the time that we
heard the news.
I was on a rope swing with uhsome friends, one from who came
from Norway for the series.
Um, but yeah, it's uh it's atricky time in the mountains
here.
I mean, any time of year, butJune, like as what happened, we
(49:14):
got a huge snowstorm and theymade the right call canceling
it.
It would have been not good outthere.
SPEAKER_00 (49:21):
Yeah, oh yeah.
No, see, especially after seeingsome of the photos, was like, oh
my gosh.
Like it's one thing for theelites to be out there, it's a
whole other thing for you know,just for a whole giant group of
people, and that just creates ayeah, if people need to be
rescued, it just it just createsa mess.
It's not good.
Um, yeah, it's it's it's a weirdthing, like holding uh races on
(49:41):
mountains and stuff like that.
Like I'm I I am affiliated withPikes Peak, and it's always an
interesting conversationthinking about like we send
people on a 14,000 foot mountainup 13 and a half miles and then
down, and it's like the rescuethat goes involved.
It's always like such aninteresting thing with uh trying
to figure out logistics andstuff like that.
It's uh big time, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
Yeah, so much goes on behind the scenes.
I that's a race that I want todo.
SPEAKER_00 (50:05):
Really?
Oh, well, hey, there's no worldsthis year.
If you're interested, let meknow.
We'll you're we'll put you righton the start list.
Like I'll give you an entry now.
When is it?
Uh it's gonna be September,whatever that Saturday is,
September 20th or 21st in 2026,whatever that that's at like the
second to last Saturday inSeptember for the ascent, and
then the the marathon will be onSunday.
SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
So I think the ascent sounds more fun.
SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
Yeah.
Oh, I especially for someonelike you with the vertical.
Yes, I agree.
I agree.
Now we'll uh we'll be in touchabout that.
We'll talk about that more.
Um I gotta ask you about thegrizzly bear situation.
Um, us in the lower 48,particularly Coloradans, like
like we don't have grizzly bearswhere we are.
Um terrifying me on the trails.
Like every time I go to Wyoming,I'm always like looking over my
(50:51):
shoulders.
It seems to be like a normalthing for you guys.
So like is that like just acommon place, like having the
bears hanging out like at thatlike that part?
SPEAKER_02 (51:01):
Yeah, it's uh it's something that we're all aware
of and that we all prep for, youknow.
Same with if you're heading uphigh, you'll throw in an extra
layer or you'll check theforecast, or if you're gonna run
at night, you'll bring headlamp.
Um it's just one other kind offactor to prepare for.
(51:24):
Um yeah.
So whether it's bringing bearspray, whether it's sometimes
you only run with a group offour or more, uh, sometimes you
just don't go in certain areas,whether that's because they have
officially been closed orbecause you're just aware of
bear activity in that area.
Um yeah, so it's a it's afactor, but it's not something
(51:45):
that we're like terrified ofhere, you know.
Of course, some people are morescared than others.
And I do have friends who haveunfortunately been attacked by
grizzly bears or have had cougarencounters.
So it's uh it's no joke, realdeal.
But um, you know, like anyhazard in the mountains, you can
(52:06):
do what you can to avoid it andprepare for it.
And uh it's your choice then ifyou accept that risk or not.
SPEAKER_00 (52:17):
Interesting.
What is your favorite animal?
I I've I've never asked anybodythis question on the podcast
yet.
I've been thinking about this alot lately.
SPEAKER_02 (52:24):
The wolverine is my favorite animal.
SPEAKER_00 (52:27):
I have a buddy that's seen one.
Have you ever seen one?
SPEAKER_02 (52:30):
I saw one this spring.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (52:32):
Oh, tell the story.
SPEAKER_02 (52:33):
Yeah, it was fantastic.
Okay, it's actually a fun story.
So it was um late April, likeafter the schemo season was
done.
I went uh with my buddy to dotry and ski Mount Joffrey, which
is a tall mountain in theRockies.
Um so like I forget what time weleft town, 3 a.m.
or 2 a.m.
(52:54):
or something, and then you'rewalking because there's not
enough snow down low.
We tried to skate ski across thelake, but it had just thawed, so
we would have drowned, whichwouldn't have been good.
So we instead ran across and umthen skied up and we encountered
just some like unfavorable snowconditions.
So we made the call to turnaround and still had a great day
(53:17):
out.
But as we were coming backacross like a smaller lake that
was still frozen, I was slightlyahead and I saw this brown lump
because at that point the sunhad risen, so there was
daylight.
And I was like, okay, that'seither a a really square rock
that had fallen, like with someavalanche debris, could be an
animal though, like it could bea bear, maybe.
(53:39):
And then it started to move, andI was like, no way, I think
that's a wolverine.
Um, but I've like marmots, wehave a lot of up here too that
are pretty big and they're kindof like also slinky close to the
rent ground.
So sometimes I've tried to trickmyself that a marmot is a
wolverine, but um, yeah, thisone kind of went behind some
avalanche debris and then itcame out behind.
(54:02):
And then by that point I knewfor sure it was a Wolverine and
just got to watch it for aboutfive minutes running up this
snow slope.
It would run for 30 seconds,stop around, look at us, keep
running, stop, kind of look,keep running.
Um, and just the like thefitness that this animal
displayed when it wasn't reallyunder threat, you know, like we
(54:25):
weren't actively chasing it, andit wasn't actively chasing
anything, and for it to justlike willingly run up this slope
for a long time was so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (54:35):
Wow, that's I'm so jealous.
That is like such like that'slike a 10 out of 10 experience
because they're so rare,apparently.
Like I have a uh a friend thatsaw one in the Wind River range.
He thought it was a black lab.
Um and he thought it was a dog.
But like there's like seven ofthem, apparently.
There's like seven, seven tofifty fifty, you don't really
know, um, in Wyoming.
(54:57):
But I guess you guys have moreof them in BC.
Or do you have I guess there's aa decent amount of them, or is
it like they're super rare upthere too?
SPEAKER_02 (55:05):
Yeah, I'd say they're still pretty rare and
definitely elusive.
Um, I think their population ison the decline, but we do have
still a fair number, andactually, like far north in
Alberta, in a place called HighLevel has a lot of Wolverines,
so not really where you'd expectthem.
But um, no, it's it's my firsttime seeing them.
(55:26):
I have seen tracks a few times,but they're I've seen more
cougar, more grizzly bear,definitely more goats, more
wolves, more coyotes, all ofthat than I have wolverines.
So pretty rare.
SPEAKER_00 (55:37):
That's so cool.
I'm so jealous.
That's yeah, like I said, 10 outof 10.
That's all life, lifeexperience.
Did you get any photos of it orwas it too far away?
SPEAKER_02 (55:46):
No, actually, I don't think I I don't think I
bothered because I just wantedto watch it.
SPEAKER_00 (55:51):
Yep.
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
Those types of experiences, it'slike I don't need to pull out
the phone.
It's like by the way, just yeah,take it in.
Super cool.
Awesome.
Well, listen, Emma, I I wannawe're at about the hour mark
now.
I wanted to say thank you somuch for your time.
This is a super fun chat.
And um, yeah, I'm wishing youthe best of luck in your
offseason.
Decompress, chill, enjoyyourself, and uh, I can't wait
(56:14):
to see what you do in 2026.
Hopefully, more VKs.
We'll talk about that at anothertime.
Um, and we'll be in touch aboutPike's Peak.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (56:21):
Okay, yeah, that sounds good.
Well, thank you so much for thechat.
It was really, really lovely tohear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (56:28):
Yeah, yeah, appreciate it.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (56:31):
Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (56:32):
Awesome, super cool.
All right, we're done recording.
Thank you so much.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
I want to thank Emma so much forcoming onto the show.
Uh, always a fun conversation.
Uh, and I'm just reallyappreciative of her time and
telling her story.
Guys, you can find her onInstagram, give her a follow,
and that's just gonna be simplyat MCook Clark.
It's gonna be linked in the shownotes.
Hop on Instagram, give her afollow, and you can learn about
(56:54):
all the fun different endeavorsin the mountains that she's
doing.
Uh, things like schemo, thingslike mountain running, um, super
fun follow.
So, guys, I hope you enjoyedthis episode.
Uh, it is uh a pleasure tocontinue to keep doing this.
Uh, we've got a lot of funthings coming down the pipeline,
lots of good announcements soonthat I'm super excited about.
Um, if you have been enjoyingthe podcast, please give us a
(57:15):
five-star rating and review onApple, Spotify, or YouTube if
you haven't already.
And uh very last but not least,we're trying to grow that uh
YouTube uh page.
So hit the subscribe button onYouTube and you can watch these
episodes in 4K video.
Um yeah, super appreciative.
Guys, we're we're coming down tothe end of the year, and uh I
can't believe it's almost over.
(57:36):
It's pretty crazy.
So thanks for tuning in.
Uh, lots to come this week andbeyond the bent.
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