#79 - Gwen Rudy

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When Gwen Rudy tore her ACL last February, followed by ankle surgery in June, few would have predicted she'd be competing for an Olympic spot just months later. Yet here she is, relocating to Europe for six weeks to help Team USA secure their continental qualification for ski mountaineering's Olympic debut in 2026.

From her home in Leadville, Colorado at 10,000 feet elevation, Gwen shares the fascinating journey that transformed her from ultra runner to Olympic ski mountaineering hopeful. The altitude presents unique challenges – "I actually can't run a 6:30 minute mile up here," she explains – but has helped develop her extraordinary aerobic engine.

What's most remarkable is how Gwen's injuries became catalysts for positive change in her approach to training. "My new motto is 'quit a lap early and hit the gym,'" she reveals, highlighting her shift from pure endurance volume to incorporating serious strength training. This evolution has her feeling stronger and healthier than ever before, despite the setbacks.

The conversation explores the technical intricacies of ski mountaineering that casual observers might miss – the importance of flawless transitions, equipment management, and the power required for explosive movements. Gwen provides fascinating insights into what separates American athletes from their European counterparts who have grown up in the sport.

With Team USA currently just one point ahead of Canada in the Olympic qualification battle, every World Cup performance matters. Gwen's willingness to uproot her life, temporarily step back from her Leadville business, and immerse herself completely in European competition speaks volumes about the sacrifices elite athletes make in pursuit of their dreams.

Beyond the Olympics, we discuss the broader lessons of resilience, recovery psychology, and finding balance between ambition and sustainability. Whether you're a mountain sport enthusiast or simply appreciate stories of human determination, Gwen's journey offers both inspiration and practical wisdom about what it takes to pursue excellence against formidable odds.

Follow Gwen on IG - @gwen_rudy

Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello

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This episode is brought to you by Ultimate Direction ! Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your next order ! The new Race Vest 6L & Ultra Vest 12L just dropped in some beautiful colorways, don't miss out and order one before they sell out. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys an episode today with noneother than Gwen Rudy, by way of
Leadville, colorado, currentlyjust moving and now residing in
Europe.
Gwen came on the podcast to gotalk about both schemo and

(00:21):
mountain running, butpredominantly schema.
Uh, gwen is in the process nowof chasing some Olympic dreams,
as she is a Olympic, uh, hopeful, um.
Should the Americans be able tosnag a spot?
Um, or a team spot in, um, theOlympics for 2026 in Italy?
Um, yeah, really funconversation.
It was super fun to have Gwen onthe podcast.
We talked about what it waslike living in Colorado, or

(00:44):
specifically in Leadville, at10,000 feet and still being able
to train at a super high level.
We talked about training theory.
We got into mountain running.
We talked about some of herfinishes.
We talked about the 2023 USMountain Running Champs in the
uphill, where Gwen had afantastic finish.
In the uphill, where Gwen had afantastic finish, we talked

(01:06):
about just chasing, what it'slike to chase big goals and
being an Olympic hopeful andwhat that means to her, as well
as Schemo and, yeah, it was justa really fun conversation,
super exciting.
I want to wish Gwen the best,especially as now she's in the
process of relocating out toEurope to go chase some big
goals and follow her dreams.
So, yeah, I hope you guysenjoyed this one Great
conversation.

(01:26):
Without further ado, gwen, rudy,it's time.
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(02:36):
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(03:38):
I'd love to hear your feedback.
Let me know what you think.
Enjoy, gwen Rudy.
Welcome to the steep stuffpodcast.
How are you?
I'm doing?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
well, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, I'm so happy we're able to fit this in.
I know scheduling-wise for you,being in and out of the country
right now is pretty wild, soI'm just excited we were able to
get this going and excited tofinally have a conversation.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, and I'm glad.
I'm glad we rescheduled thelast one, cause I actually tried
to have a um a differentinterview and the hotel kept
losing wifi, so it didn't work,so I'm glad yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Now it's worked out for the best.
Uh, how's your week going sofar?
How's, uh, how's everythinggoing?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Oh man, it is busy.
I kind of decided, like a weekago, to spend the rest of the
winter in europe, so now it'skind of like just hustling,
trying to get everything done,like I own a business in
ladville so setting everythingup so I can take that much time
off, um, and then also like,yeah, get the gear all organized

(04:43):
and get back to Europe for sixor seven weeks, oh my gosh, it's
so crazy.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Let's back this up a little bit for those that might
not be aware of the big goalsthat you're chasing.
Maybe let's talk about yourSchemo career and what you're
doing with Schemo right now.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, so this year is a really special year in ski
mountaineering.
They recently announced theparticipation of ski
mountaineering in the 2026Olympic Games and so Team USA,

(05:22):
the USA national team, were kindof really trying hard to show
up to World Cups and earn a spotat the olympics.
Um, I think last year was thefirst year.
There was quite a lot of umjust growth in usa schemo um and
participation from the usopcgetting involved.
Um.
So, yeah, it's been an excitingtime to be part of the sport
and, you know, be on a teamthat's hopefully earning team

(05:42):
usa spot in the Olympics.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, yeah, now you guys are all so driven Like I've
had Cam on the podcast, I'vehad David Sinclair on the
podcast and just getting to knowthose guys and some of the gals
on the team as well.
Everybody is just so driven toget Team USA a spot there, which
is going to be so cool.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
If you guys are able to do that, I couldn't which is
going to be so cool, for if youguys are able to do that, I
couldn't, can't.
Yeah, you know, and it's yeah,and it's going to be a tight
battle, I think I'm sure theytold you.
But we have, um, essentiallywe're earning, hoping to earn, a
continental spot, um, so wekind of have we're.
It's us against canada rightnow.
Um, you know, cam closed in onan epic race at the last world

(06:23):
cup, got us like one point aheadof Canada, so like we're
sitting ahead of them.
So it's looking good, but notby much.
And they're super talented.
So are they.
So it'll be an exciting season,yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I love to see how this plays out and you know and
I've had a couple athletes on,I've had Jesse McCauley as well
he sometimes competes on theCanadian side Um, and he's
talked a little bit about likethe Canadian side of um of the
sport as well.
Can you talk about um?
Is it whether is your strengthmore in the mixed relay or is it
in the sprint?

(06:55):
Like, what do you like more?
I've also noticed you're anamazing vertical runner, so I
would imagine you're you gottalent in the vertical as well.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm jack of all,
master of none, um, and Iactually never thought of myself
as a shorter distance person,but I think I'm actually doing
quite quite well in the shorter,more explosive disciplines.
Um, yeah, I actually was moreof an ultra runner at least

(07:25):
that's what I thought leadinginto ski mountaineering.
I kind of picked it up as a wayto kind of change the sport
with the season up here inLudville, but I, yeah, then I
was like actually I like thismore than like slogging 100
miles, so I kind of just stuckwith it and I, yeah, I've just
like really enjoyed the processof like becoming a more powerful

(07:47):
athlete than just like anendurance athlete, I guess yeah,
yeah, I think that's totallyfair and we'll get into some
like some of the races thatyou've done in a little bit
we'll talk about, because one ofthe things I do want to chat
about is like you've had astellar finish at the vertical
us mountain running champs backin 23.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
You've had some great results at broken arrow.
That we'll talk about um, but II am very fixated on the schema
, just because it's front ofmind right now.
Um, so what is that?
What is that like going tospend the rest of your winter
season racing um in europe andlike living in europe?
Like what kind of preparationdo you have to make?
Like what I'm trying to get?
It is like how easy does USASchemo make that process for you

(08:26):
?

Speaker 2 (08:30):
It's really complicated.
We it's actually prettyunorganized, so there's kind of
a lot of just constant movingparts or there's no plans until
like a week or two before thenext event.
Okay, and so like right nowwe're like is there a team van

(08:50):
going from borneo to worldchamps?
Like we don't know.
So we're all like trying to getin touch with one another, like
where are you playing into?
Like are you renting a car?
Should I rent a car?
Can we like all ride together?
There's actually, I thinkthere's some organization thanks
to Sarah Cookler.
She's kind of the one employeeand head of USA Schemo right now

(09:11):
and she's doing a great job.
But it's hard and I think I'mexcited to go back for six weeks
, because I was originallytrying to do kind of two weeks
on, come back and work for twoweeks.
But the international traveljust takes it out of you and I
was like I cannot keep.
Like the last trip in Spain Iwas just sick the whole time and

(09:35):
super fatigued, I don't.
I think between the travel andgetting sick I just didn't feel
like an athlete, um, so that wassuch a bummer.
So I'm excited to go back andjust get to indulge in the
lifestyle I think and really dowhat I can and get to focus on
the sport for once, instead offeeling so spread thin between

(09:59):
trying to run a business and seeclients managing many different
schedules trying to squeeze intraining, and then the super
cold temps here in leadville arereally hard to train in.
So I'm excited, yeah, to goback to the alps and give it a
go yeah, plus all the croissants.
I'm so jealous, yeah you knowthat's what fuels team usa.

(10:21):
I know, I know cam started.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
He always, always talks about the croissants and
he got me on the croissant kickand like I have like a German
bakery, like right down thecorner from my like, literally
10th of a mile from my house,that I go after like almost like
every run, like maybe three orfour times a week.
It's deadly so like, especiallyin Europe, I feel like I would
just up, I feel like I wouldjust.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's all I would do is just train and eat
croissants, like there's this,that's it, or pizza, you know,
yeah, you're just replenishing.
Yeah, you're, yeah, glycogenstores.
Right, it's good.
I yeah.
It's actually really hard forme to come back to leadville and
be like I don't know what toeat for breakfast or like for
treats anymore everything isbetter than picking yeah, what
is it?

(11:04):
And then?

Speaker 1 (11:04):
lead the word.
Oh no, finish.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to oh, I just was gonna say
like we just don't have like abakery in leadville.
We, you know we have a fewcoffee shops, but not, they're
not like delicious, fluffyhomemade things yeah, wait,
there's no bakery in leadville.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
I didn't even realize that well, I guess we have.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
We've had some individuals kind of do little,
like you could order from themand they deliver something I
don't know um, but we have acoffee shop that does do some
baked goods but they haven'tchanged in like 15 years.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Um, it's like the same generic stuff and I'm like,
come on, man I feel like we gotto put the bat signal up for
someone to open a french bakeryin leadville like come on like
that's you would think that'slike, especially with mike
ambrose there, who lived infrance, like yeah, someone's
gotta, someone's gotta make thishappen, mike yeah, well, I'm
sure you also know my friendannie hughes.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
I've always joked with her like superhero muffin
situation.
I'm like, can you just bakemuffins for us people of
leadville?

Speaker 1 (12:08):
listen, something's gonna happen.
We yeah you definitely need one.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
How do you like living in leadville?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
what's it?
What's it like living at 10 000feet year-round?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
um, it's kind of, you know, good and can be hard
sometimes or frustrating.
Um, I liked it for the, for themost part a lot.
It's just, you know, supergreat access up here, probably a
way slower pace of life thananyone gets to experience on the

(12:37):
front range.
Um, yeah, and it's just justlike more simple, fewer
distractions, so I really likeit.
Um, the winter is on, mudseason can definitely drag on.
And then for schemo specific, Ithink last year I was convincing
myself I could never be a goodschemo athlete living here
because the altitude is just toohigh.
Yeah, um, but I also think Iwas.

(13:02):
I've talked to kim about it andarthur who.
We all live at altitude and Ithink you just have to adjust
your straining but your training.
But I do think it's actuallypossible to still be able to
like go down and down quite abit of elevation to europe and
still perform.
Um, because I think the reasonbeing is they say we never

(13:24):
develop enough speed, yep,living up here.
Um, but I think with, like youknow, hitting the gym, building
power and strength, um, and alsosomething that's really changed
for me, I think, is when Ifirst got into schema, I used to
just chase bert and like kindof just be a little addicted to
my numbers.
And now I've realized I thinkchoosing flatter places to train

(13:49):
and do my intervals, I can getquicker turnover and you're
still, you know, hypoxic,essentially.
So I think it's just yeah,instead of like slogging up
speed stuff, going to a littleflatter terrain and moving
faster, moving harder, like Ithink you can actually

(14:10):
counterbalance that.
I'm hoping to go back and youknow, see if that's true.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Um, yeah, it's an interesting conversation.
I actually have had thisconversation with cam and I've
had this conversation with raycoble, because they have both
said the same exact thing where,yeah, it's like going over to
race in europe is its own beastjust because the elevation is
lower.
It's developing that power tobe able to have, you know, and,
I guess, because we live well,you guys, you guys live really
high.
I'm in colorado spring, so I'mat 6 000.

(14:33):
People like you guys are at 10000, so it's got to be much
harder.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I mean, even like track workouts have to be
heinous, like that's not, that'snot, yeah, at all like I
actually can't run like a 6 30minute mile, like I just can't,
like there's nowhere to do thatand like maybe coming downhill
yeah, yeah but yeah, I'm like tome, I'm like 10 minute miles
are fast yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Maybe the vk.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, well, and that's actually I remember when
I actually ran mountain champstwo years ago.
I remember it was kind of aflat course and we took off and
I was like, wait, I'm hitting afive, 30 mile, I can't do this,
I'm getting.
I think I was like in 30thplace until the climbing hit,
because I was like I literallydon't do this.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, it's so fast in the beginning.
Yeah there's, these coasts arebananas.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Um, as I was like I literally don't do this.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, it's so fast in the beginning.
Yeah, there's, these coasts arebananas.
Um, as far as like what you cando from a turnover perspective
at sea level I don't go to sealevel much Like I spend most of
the year, if not all of the year, in in the Springs or higher or
lower, maybe a little bit likewe.
Just it's funny, we moved from7,000 feet down to 6,000.
And I can even actually feeland this was like two months ago
and I could feel the differencein speed intervals.

(15:47):
Just with the 1,000-footelevation difference I feel a
little bit faster.
I'm like huh, I wonder, becauseit's the same thing if you go
down to Boulder.
Boulder is like 5,000 feet.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
It's like whoa, I feel like a superhuman when I
come down here yeah, well, it'sactually funny too, because so
many people say they can run sofast when they go low and I kind
of think I've been at altitudeso long, I actually just don't
feel good at lower altitude,like if it's too low.
Um, like I feel okay at likesix and seven thousand feet, but

(16:17):
if I go to sea level I'mactually like super lethargic
really and just don't feel fastno, I wonder if that has
something to do with like, uh,like the hemocrit or blood, red
blood cells or something likethat.
Yeah, I don't know, I don't knowthe science, yeah, but my guess
is like we just have thickerblood up here because we have to
transport more oxygen and somaybe that thick blood makes us

(16:40):
sluggish until it like thins out.
I don't know that's.
I've had other people say theyfeel the same and I'm like, oh
well, that's a bummer, I don'tget to experience that speed.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah Right, how many, how many years have you lived
up in Ludville?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Um.
I moved back here in 2019 andafter I finished um acupuncture
school in Boulder, um but I washere I moved to Ludville first
in 2012 and I went to coloradomountain college um got an
associate's in outdoor ed um andI stayed here until like 20
through 2015 and then moved outdown to boulder in 2016.

(17:15):
So nice.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, it's crazy how long like being up there for I
don't know.
It's great for high altituderacing like Like if you go race
at a base.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Yeah, that's like I mean.
I think that's why I've startedrealizing steeper races are
better for me, cause again, I'mjust not fast, but I can walk up
real quick.
Strong hiking, strong hike.
Let's talk.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that because
you had I mean absolute- likesuper lights out performance at
the us mountain running champs,back in 23 for the vertical, and
you've also had a top 10 finishat the broken arrow vk, which
not too many men and women cansay that they've done that
because it's such a competitiverace.
Um, what do you?
Let's talk about the usmountain running champs.

(18:04):
Do you have plans to possiblygo back this year after your ski
season?

Speaker 2 (18:09):
um, I don't know yet.
To be honest, I part of mefeels like, if I want to focus
on schema, I really don't wantto be racing in the winter
because, like, just when I leavefor europe, like we race every
weekend almost in for sevenweeks, um, it's just a lot of
racing.
Um, so I'm not sure, I guess.

(18:31):
But also, when the time comes,I'll probably want to.
Um, my yeah, my one thought islike jumping into some vks
wouldn't hurt.
Yeah, um, we're quick andpainful and, um, I think the
biggest thing is I'll probablydrop like more of the ultra
stuff, like that's just notproductive in schema training or
the goals right now.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
So, um, it's a more sub ultra.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
There we go yeah, but like I also actually can't run
downhill very quick, or I I'msure if I practiced I could.
But I had ankle surgery and I Iwas an ankle smasher, like I
think every other race I wassmashing an ankle, um, and so I
it's hard to imagine doing thatagain, since, like getting it

(19:17):
surgically fixed, um, so that'salso I'm like maybe uphill only
racing which I'm bummed I wishwe had more of in the us, like I
know, I feel like there's sucha good scene in europe and if
you've just tried any of theirvk courses, ours are kind of
flat a joke, I think the bestone in the country, and this is
no shade of broken arrow,because broken arrows now

(19:38):
changed it from a vk to anascent, but, like the right, I
think the rut has like the onlyproper vk in america as of right
now.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
I think there's there's one more.
I think it's like the mount sihill climb or mount c hill climb
.
That's in washington, I think Ilike I literally just saw it
like recently, um, okay, whichis like a proper.
It might be like three milesthough to get like three or four
thousand feet, um, but like,just like a proper vk.
You know what?
I'm gonna put this, put thisout there, cause, like we have
been, I've been in the processof like looking into, like, all

(20:07):
right, how expensive is it to dothis?
And like how much is it to puton a race and go through the
whole process.
But if anyone like one and I'llput this out to like listeners
like if anyone wants to do one,tell your ride is the best place
.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Like that VK is's and telly ride.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Let's do it, let's do it listen, I'm all in for race
directing at this point, no, butin all seriousness, like we, we
do need more vertical races inamerica, like there's like a
sense and he'll, he'll like,quote, unquote, he'll climbs,
but nothing like property vks,uh really I want to backtrack a
little bit to injuries because,like you've been, you have had

(20:50):
this history of, just byfollowing you on instagram, like
it's been a lot of uh injuriesover the last like year or so,
or just like one really badinjury was the knee, correct
yeah, I tore my acl in februarylast year to end in my season
early let's, uh, let's unpackthat one like what that must
have been horrible to go throughthat yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
So you know it happened about this time last
year and I had just gotten backfrom a three-week stint where
the US OPC kind of stepped in ona trip to kind of help identify
the needs of our support forTeam USA.
They called it Project Podium,but we're more like Project 12th

(21:34):
Place, maybe Podium.
I mean, cam Smith is crushingit and so is Griffin.
Griffin's a beast.
Yeah, they're all all doing.
The men are actually doing sowell, um, I think you know they
just have a lot of experience inworld cup racing.
I've heard people need like a20 um, 20, 20 different starts

(21:57):
to really start getting it down,and I think I meant like eight.
So I'm like okay, like if I cantime, um, it will get there,
and it's not a fitness thing,it's like a ripping your skin,
it's just putting the whole racetogether.
Um, and I think we'll.
We'll get there with some sometime, but um, but yeah.

(22:18):
So this time last year, after Iwas in Europe, I actually we
all also got sick on that trip.
The first week or two Um didn'tgo so great.
By the third week I was wasbetter race pretty well.
But then I was excited to comeback to the U S?
Um, we saw USA nationals inMarch so I and I I just had felt
like I had so much qualitytraining that I never got to

(22:42):
like like show in a race, um.
So, anyways, last workoutbefore USA nationals, um, we had
a really bad snowstorm up hereand really heavy snow and also
it was just like super windy,not very pleasant out, and I was
just trying to get up and downand get my workout in, Um, and I
was skiing on a snowmobiletrack and my right foot slayed

(23:06):
out and caught an edge and likejust ripped my ACL off the bone.
Uh, it was really painful.
Some people say it doesn't hurtto tear one, it really hurts.
I can say differently Um, yeah,and so, um, I was pretty
certain.
So I felt a pop, um, but yeah,but yeah, didn't get.
Race nationals ended my season,um.

(23:27):
And then so back up prior tothat, while we were in europe,
we had the sopc sent us a, senta team doctor with us and she
was doing routine evals um withus for just like checking in on
us and then getting baselinesfor if we had head in like
concussions and whatnot.
But anyways, she was kind, waskind of like man you're.
I told her I had likerepetitive ankle sprains and I

(23:49):
really smashed it last summerand she was like she pulled out
a tuning fork, which is kind ofa non X-ray way to diagnose a
broken bone, and she did it onmy ankle and it really hurt.
And then she was like, yeah, Ithink you have a broken ankle
and I had broken it in july andlike I actually had a small

(24:09):
surgery that last summer.
I had a retro calcaneal bursitis, but I it was a small procedure
, they just had to remove thebursa, stitch up, but it was
still like two or three weeksoff, um, and so I think I broke
my ankle two days later, went infor that surgery, um, and so I
kind of just thought, oh, myankle hurts because I'm not
running.
Usually I just run out anklesprains like an idiot, like most

(24:32):
people we all do.
I do the same thing, I know butnow when I see people do it, I'm
like, don't do it, like, oh,take care of it because it gets.
Yeah, I don't know like it'lljust get worse and worse.
I think how badly broken wasyours like?

Speaker 1 (24:46):
did you have to get like a pin in it or anything?
Did you have to go to surgeryon it or?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
no well, so by the time we discovered it was broken
it was six months later, um,but I think, uh, my body
naturally grew all these bonespurs in the joint so I didn't
have proper dorsiflexion, like Iwas kind of a toe walker going
uphill because my ankle didn'tbend, and I kind of told them
like, oh yeah, I just like getthis really bad pinch in the

(25:11):
joint.
And so, yeah, by the time I gotx-rays and MRIs, the bone break
itself had healed but I hadruptured the, the ligaments and
um had like three huge bonesburrs like deep in the joint.
So so they had to grind thoseout, strap up my ligaments, yeah

(25:34):
, so that was so.
Yeah, I kind of tore my ACLafter that news.
And so you know, I went toStedman, got all the different
appointments and they were like,yep, I think ACL surgery is the
longer rehab we do, that firstit takes.
They weren't willing to do myankle for three months because

(25:57):
you basically need to rebuildquad back to protect the graft,
um, and it's really hard to growa quad back Like it just takes
time and it's so slow.
You're like I used to have amuscle there and now I just look
like withered away, um, butyeah.
So, yeah, three months later Igot my second surgery mid June

(26:18):
last summer and I actually hadsome people tell me like, cause
I was so torn, I was like,should I just not do the ankle
surgery and have a chance torace?
And some people were like, yeah, I think if you do both, you're
not going to like have time toget back in shape for the ski
season.
And I kind of was.
Really I took it to heart,cause I was like, oh, I yeah,

(26:38):
like that's just not much timeto build a base, um, and just
you, you know, having never beenthrough that before, I wasn't
sure what, I don't know like howquickly you get fitness back,
um, so, but I also think it doesactually come back pretty quick
and I think the whole injuryprocess I think was actually

(27:02):
positive in the end.
Like it just like my new mottowhen I'm out training is like
quit a lap early and hit the gymlike say, like I need to be
prioritizing strength, which isso good for chemo and so good
for injury prevention.
Um, because I think in mudvilleespecially, there's just like
such a volume culture up here,maybe just because it's more of
an ultra running scene thananything else and I think I like

(27:26):
drank that kool-aid and youknow, was more focused on
collecting vert and volume thanI was being like a healthy,
well-rounded athlete.
Um, and I think honestly likethe way I train now since injury
and just also maybe changing itup to shorter events in schemo,

(27:48):
like I just feel so muchstronger and so much healthier.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
So I, yeah, I really like it that's amazing and that
was actually kind of answered myquestion.
But I am still curious, likehow much turnaround time?
Because I mean, like I said, wefollow each other on Instagram
and I've seen your, all of yourstories from the summer like
like being, you know, just kindof injured, you know, going
through that whole process whichmust've driven you nuts.

(28:12):
If that was me I'd be goingcrazy, Like what was the time
Cause I feel like you went fromthat and then here you are
competing on, you know, at ahigh level in schema.
You did it really quickly,which is impressive.
Um, like, how long did it takeyou to get back in shape?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
like it must have not been very long yeah, it's kind
of weird, like I think you knowthe processes of recovering for
injury.
They're so like step by step.
You're not suddenly like I'mout of shape and I have to go
run 10 miles.
It's like if you just keepdoing the little things, it's

(28:50):
kind of just the process and Iguess it gets you there.
But yeah, I do think like Idefinitely didn't rush things to
get back.
I really played it safe Listento my PT because I was like
there's no way I'm retiring this, like that was awful.
Um, the rehab for an ecl is justlike it's actually a lot of

(29:10):
work.
So between surgeries it waslike you're doing pt like five
times a day and it's like you'reliterally just sitting there
squeezing your quad, liftingyour leg, doing clamshells, like
it's all really basic stuff.
But you just like you reallyhave to be dedicated and I know
so many people I think don'tlike stay dedicated because it's

(29:32):
so monotonous.
Um, but I I really did.
If my PT said, do it, I did itand I didn't do it like one
session short um, so I thinkjust that the process and like
seeing progress like cause, Ithink the progress with an ACL
recovery also is so like week toweek, you're like wow, I can do

(29:53):
this now, wow, I can do thatnow, like and like before I knew
it by I think.
Um, yeah, my last surgery was,or my ankle was done mid June.
I was non-weight bearing fortwo weeks, which I lost all quad
progress literally witheredaway again.
Oh my god, um, yeah, but Ithink by mid-july I was allowed

(30:13):
to ride a bike outdoors.
So I went pretty ham on that,um, and I think I think it was
just like so much fun and like Iguess also in the whole process
, so many people like I don'tknow how you did it, it would
drive me crazy like just sittingaround and like I would say I
would have thought so too.

(30:35):
But I think when you're goingthrough it, like like everything
just becomes harder.
Like you know, right aftersurgery, like getting to the
bathroom is hard, you'reexhausted, you're like loopy, um
, and then, like a week or twolater I went back to work and
that was just exhausting, um,just trying to be on my seat

(30:56):
most the day, um, on crutches,um, and then later I came to
work on knee scooters.
I loved the knee scooter, itwas so much fun.
Yeah, I was just like during myworkday, like scooch down

(31:17):
Harrison get a coffee, like hada little cup holder, like it was
actually pretty fun.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I bet.
I bet the scooters are awesome.
Yeah, that's fun.
So so it yeah no, I'm sorry, Ibet, I bet the scooters are
awesome yeah.
That's fun, so so it yeah.
No, I'm sorry I didn'tinterrupt you.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Oh no, I was just going to say like I think,
because every little thing islike hard and each week feels
like so much progress, it wasn'tjust like like there was just
so many little steps to get toeach phase that it it felt like
you still had so much to worktowards each week.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
It's interesting too, cause I feel like I don't know,
um, you could focus on otherthings too, right, I don't know,
I feel like us as athletes.
I can't speak for you, but Ican speak for myself.
Like I obsess over, like it isa huge part of my identity and
like when that like even if Iget sick or whatever, whenever
it gets taken away it could be aweek, could be two weeks I lose
my mind.

(32:12):
I'm like, what am I going to do?
But then I have other things topour myself into, like the
podcast, like work, stuff likethat.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
I'm sure for someone like you, like there's, you know
, you're able to pour yourselfinto work and do other things
too, to just take your mind offof it, and you know, just work
on other things as well yeah,for sure, I think I just I just
tried to work a little more,knowing I needed to save up for
the winter, um, but yeah, I, Ithink actually the biggest thing

(32:40):
was I was like, I actually likebeing lazy, is this bad?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
it's not a bad thing, it's fun, right.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, but I also think like I just am a
hyperactive person in generaland that was the first time I
really took a break and I waslike I don't think when I'm
healthy I actually want to, butI think for some reason I was
like this is kind of nice, likethat could be lazy forever.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Listen.
I don't often do it, but when,if it's like like after you know
, as long as I get my run in,I'm happy.
But, like if it's a cold winterday, there is nothing better on
like a saturday afternoon thanjust like sitting on the couch
and chilling like after.
Yeah, it is, it is the bestlike it's when it's like fuzzy
blankets, yeah yeah, unlimitednetflix like it's it's not about

(33:25):
life.
I I could I, I could take that.
Yeah, it's not bad.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, but I'm also sure if that's all you did, it
wouldn't feel as rewarding.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
For sure, for sure, for sure yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
There's a time and place for everything.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
You mentioned something that I was really
interested in.
Um, I picked up the same thingfrom cam.
Like cam spends an egregiousamount of time in the gym.
Like the way he talks aboutbeing in the gym blew my mind
and I think I've mentioned it onlike every podcast, just
because, like I was justastounded, do you?
And you had said something aswell, where you know I can.
If I can cut this short, I cango spend time in the gym.

(33:57):
How many days a week are you,are you in the gym lifting and
like how much do you thinkthat's played a giant role in
your comeback?

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Oh, I think so much because I think I did not have
very much strength before Um,but I spend like um.
Like leading into the raceseason, I was at least three
days a week Um, and now it's alittle tricky with racing Cause
they're like, oh, don't have alift two weeks before a

(34:24):
competition um, because yourmuscles need to recover um, but
I still try.
I think, just because I'm alsostill a year out, I still kind
of compromise my racing byhitting the gym maybe a little
close, because I don't want tolose it um, but yeah, I'd say at
least three times a week formaybe an hour.
Sometimes, third, only 30minutes.

(34:45):
Like I feel like you canactually get quite a lot done
and be pretty sore in 30 minutes, but I would say, yeah,
anywhere from like two to threehours a week Um, and it's.
It's actually interesting too.
We've had some interestingdiscussions as a team about this
Um, but I think in the U S.
So I coach with Megan Roach Umand I think a lot of coaches in

(35:11):
the U S always cause I.
I was like, how do I add thisinto my training, like what's
the most productive, and I thinka lot of coaches recommend um,
doing strength days on likeworkout days, um, and then
keeping recovery days likerecovery, and um, after, like,
uh, grace, actually, who's onthe team?

(35:32):
She's got some good friendsthat are on the swiss team and
just telling us how they trainand they actually will
prioritize strength.
It sounds like like that'll betheir first workout of the day.
All energies go towards that.
And then an hour of easy cardioin the afternoon, or maybe more
than an hour, but like easycardio after.

(35:52):
So it's definitely made mecurious to maybe play with that,
or I mean, I don't, I don'tknow.
It's just interesting that Ithink there's so many different
ways to do it, but I I candefinitely see the Swiss
approach of all benefits fromthe gym, because, for I know,

(36:16):
for me, if I go do a workout inthe morning and hit the gym by
the afternoon, like, like,usually I only have so much
energy left, yeah, yeah, yeah,or especially like, because I'll
do tuesday, thursday, I'll doworkout and gym, and then
endurance day on saturday andusually hit the gym after that.
But that's actually like afterendurance days for sure.
I'm like, yeah, I don't havethat much less of a gym.

(36:38):
So, like I do, I do think it'san interesting idea, maybe
playing with that and I don'tknow, like maybe Schemo, there's
something about reallyprioritizing, prioritizing the
gym, doing less like volume.
Yeah.
So, and I do think at altitudeit wouldn't hurt, because our
aerobic capacity is probablypretty good up here, but our

(37:01):
speed and power might be likelessened because of living up
here.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's correct.
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's a very interestingconversation, I ask.
I've asked a ton of peopleabout this and I can't get.
It's hard for me to get adirect answer.
Like I, literally I justsuggested Macaulay on the
podcast and he said the samething to me Like he does his,
he'll do his speed days.
Uh, because he's coached bydavid norris, who's obviously a

(37:29):
former um nordic skier, and oneof the things that they, he
recommended, was doing yourworkouts, like your, your
strength work, after or before,like basically in the same day
that you're doing your, your um,your speed work, um, yeah, it's
like, what is the like why I'mjust so curious to that because
I've kind of adopted that andI've been doing it, but I'm

(37:50):
pooped every time I do itbecause I'm like this is this is
horrible, this is so hard Iknow, I don't know, yeah, and
you feel like why, like on awednesday, when I have an easy
hour recovery job, doesn't itmake more sense to do it?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
but I, I guess I get it in the sense of like working
hard, having a recovery day,working hard, like yeah, and I
think, like I think when I wasjust running more, I think it
was easier to just like maybelike train in zone three and
just like kind of push, alwayslike aiming for numbers again in

(38:28):
volume.
But I think with schema I'vereally realized you like for me
to show up and have a strongworkout, like I need the easy
hour job the day before, like Icannot usually like doing it two
days in a row is actually quiteexhausting, yeah no.
No, and my legs just don't havethe power yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, it's, I mean same thing for you for running
speed.
Same exact thing.
Like if you can't do two work.
I mean, if you do do twoworkouts in a row one's trash,
yeah A hundred percent.
By the time you get to the thirdday, you're you're going to
need an easy day Cause it's it'sprobably not even healthy to do

(39:11):
that to begin with.
But like, yeah, I don't, Idon't know it's, yeah, I don't
know, I've I've been.
The reason I ask is because Ihave been playing with it.
I usually do.
I range anywhere from one tothree days in, uh, you know, in
a week in the gym and, like Idon't know, I've found a lot of
success.
Monday is my off day and I'vefound a lot of success just
doing my biggest, heaviest liftof the week on my off day, on
Monday, and then doing mysmaller um, you know, my smaller
lift on like Wednesday, whenthat's an easier day, whereas

(39:32):
like.
Tuesday, tuesday, thursday orspeed speed workouts, and it's
like when I do them on likeTuesday, Thursday, after my
speed workouts, I'm dead, like,I'm just like I.
By the time I get to Saturday,which is like when I try to do a
hill day, I don't have this,the power that I would want to,
um, because I'm so destroyedfrom earlier in the week.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
you know it's, it's uh I know, but then if you do it
on like a monday, on a rest day, do you not feel like that kind
of it's like the gate?
To the rest, right, yeah, yeahyou show up tuesday and you're
like actually I have lead legsyeah, it depends on what I do.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
And this actually gets to the question that I was
going to ask you was like whatdo you?
What are you doing, like forspeed and power?
Are you doing a bunch of likeheavier Olympic lifts, like
squats and deadlifts?
Like, what do you do?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Um, yeah, I, I like to say I am, um, I'm.
I don't feel like I'm superstrong with the heavy stuff and
I kind of like if I squat tooheavy it actually irritates my
low, like my SI joint, but I doheavy lifting, like squats and

(40:37):
deadlifts.
I actually my friend, who is aphysical therapist here in town
like wrote me like a schemabuild, I think, maybe based on
uphill athlete, and he's just,he's smart, he was a power
lifter actually, um, so I reallytrusted him and so I think that
plan, like I do think a lot ofthe heavier lifting happens in

(41:01):
like the late summer, early fall, and then once you start the,
you're kind of backing off ofthat and doing maybe some more
explosive movements, more reps,less weight.
But yeah, like late summer andfall, like I think one day a
week was like 80% max with likethree to five reps squats,

(41:23):
deadlifts and kind of justmixing up those numbers every
week.
And then the second workout ofthe week was usually um, just
yeah, like weighted reps, butnot like max anything, um, and
then I think as the seasonapproaches, it was more like
weighted vest, uphill, um, boxsteps up, step ups into jump
lunges.

(41:43):
I think I my biggest workout ofthose, like I did 400 on each
leg.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
it was heinous, oh my god yeah, it was like so.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
So single leg box step up, yeah, on each side 10
times and then into 10 splitsquat jumps, so 20 total 10
times for a set.
That's that four times and forpeople that are listening this
that have never done that, thatis so hard like I I yeah, my
quads would be screaming fromthat yeah, and it was actually

(42:13):
interesting because it was sothe first week was two sets, the
third week was three of, thefourth was four and I actually
hurt more on the two set week,but I think I was pretty well
adapted by the time.
It doubled for some reason,because the first one was like
way more painful and I only did200.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, that's brutal.
I do a lot of boxes, step upson the box.
Um, yeah, and I man, I hate it,it never gets easy.
I guess it gets a little easierover time, but like, I'll do
like sets of like two or threeminutes, or sometimes like four
or five minutes on them, um, trynot to bounce off, but just
like stepping down, steppingback up, and it's like man, like

(42:50):
my legs get so filled with, uh,I don't know, I guess lactate
or just they get tired.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Like it's like, oh my God, like this is crazy, so
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's hardsince integrating more of that
stuff, like when I started skimost season, I definitely can
speak to feeling more musclerecruitment in each step.
Yep, like I think it used to besuch a quad centric sport for

(43:15):
me and now I'm like, oh, I canfeel like all the different,
like my hamstrings, my glutes,like so much more of my entire
leg activating than I probablydid last year, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Yeah.
I can definitely agree to that,Like it's helped my stride open
up and like I feel just morepower in my steps.
A lot of times where I'll seeit is on the incline, Like I
have the incline in my backyardthe Manitou incline.
You know, like the Manitouincline is really easy until you
get to this like section calledthe steeps.
And the steeps are like it'sespecially for a shorter person

(43:51):
like I'm only five, six, so liketo step up and like recruit
your muscles to like step upinto some of those movements.
It's like damn this is reallyhard for a short person.
It's kind of funny um but like Ijust will feel so much stronger
on those and the step ups iswhat gives me I what I think
other than like the lifts willgive give me, and then in speed
I just have more, I don't know.
I feel like I have more directfoot placement.
I feel stronger in my steps,like it's just I don't know.

(44:13):
I feel like that stuff likereally matters.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, I think it does , and I think it does seem like
the coaches are starting toreally also recommend it more,
like they don't put it in theirtraining plans, but I think it
seems like they speak more tousing, like runner, specific
strength, like I just think itmakes such a difference.
Um, yeah, and I also think likefor the longest time, I was

(44:40):
super adverse to wanting to dolike heavier reps, so I was like
I don't need to like buildmuscle, yeah, but I really think
that is important now yeah no100 it's.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It's very like I I don't know like I used to have
all these issues with, like hipflexors and stuff like that
being super tight and like allthese problems, um, like
unnecessarily, like lower backproblems, and I would ask myself
like, well, like I, you know,I'm doing everything right
except for lifting heavier anddoing certain plyo movements,
and as soon as I startedapplying certain things like it
totally cleared that stuff up.

(45:11):
So do you do a lot of plyostuff as well, like plyometric
movements?

Speaker 2 (45:17):
I would say I use like, not like.
Maybe I should, I don't know.
No, I don't.
I think I kind of was movinginto that in PT, but then the
race season started and Istopped going.
But yeah, not so much, to behonest.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
The single leg stuff is crazy.
Yeah, it's hard yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Well, and I think it is interesting.
Like I do feel like for mostathletes, we all kind of wing
strength, or it's like hard tofind like some good guidance of
like what exactly we should bedoing and how much.
Um, I do think I learned a lotfrom physical therapy, but yeah,
I don't, I don't know.
I that's a constant question.

(46:04):
I'm always like askingdifferent people on the team,
like, what do you do forstrength?
Like him, what do you do?
How much like, like, do like,because like there's also some
people like Haley, like I don'tthink she does any strength but,
she's super fast interesting no.
I'm sure you know who Haley is.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
She got second at the Pikes Ascent yeah, she's a
beast, that's, and you knowthat's really something I have
to get on the podcast.
I forgot all about that.
She dude, she must call alley.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
She came very close to catching alley, yeah she was
like 30 seconds or less behindher.
Um, yeah, and she is sointeresting, I call her 6, 30
pace, 10 minute my or 10 mileevery day.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Girl, some people can do that I don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, she doesn't have a coach um, she like I
think maybe she follows likemarathon training plans and
she's, um she's been like.
I know some of like a lot ofher goals are more in like
marathon training, um, and she'spretty new to trail but she's
got such an aerobic engine Likeshe's a very strong climber, um.

(47:13):
But yeah, from what I know, shedoesn't go to the gym at all
that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Some people, you know , it's crazy to me too, cause,
like, I'll meet people that likedon't like, for instance,
like've had joe gray in thepodcast and he spends a lot less
time in the gym than I thoughthe did and he runs yeah, I don't
know 17 something or yeah, Ithink it's like 17 something on
the incline, and the incline tome is yes, run, economy power
yes, power run economy vo2 maxand a shitload of power and

(47:41):
strength, right like and it'slike you would?
yeah, that would translate and Iguess, from being a steeple or
his whole, like you know, in hisformative years he just has a
lot of power and strength in hislegs.
Like some people just, yeah,some people just have it.
I don't know Like I.
I feel like cause, if I don'ttrain like heavy, like for power
, like I will lose it after awhile, you know, like you don't

(48:02):
retain it, at least.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah, and I'm honestly curious for myself if
that's what's helped me kind ofbe where I'm at racing SEMA this
season, because I obviouslydidn't have time to build a
vague aerobic base at all thissummer, um, but I think the gym

(48:25):
work, like I'm I I'm superexcited for next, like I'm
excited for this schema season,of course, but I'm excited to
have another summer to be ableto build an aerobic base and
continue with the strength andsee what kind of progress I can
get through.
Like both, because I think I'msuper lucky to be where I'm at

(48:46):
because I was missing strengthpreviously.
Um, but yeah, both combined I'msure are important so it's true
, it's true.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, it's crazy, it's.
It's interesting how it playsinto just progressing and
getting better.
Um, yeah, all right, so we'realmost an hour, so I want to I'm
very curious to ask you thegoal question, like what are
your goals for for this yearwith us, like, how, how does
that play?
Cause I know everybody's tryingto you know jockey to get the U
S a spot but, more or less is.

(49:16):
It's only one male, one womanthat gets selected.
Correct For the for the ummixed relay.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, and I'm not sure if they'll have alternates,
like I kind of maybe I'mmissing something, but you think
they would.
But yeah, it's one male, onefemale, um, you know, I think
we'd all love to be the topfemale, um, and that's
definitely the goal.
I feel like I'm on a little bitof an emotional roller coaster
because I raced so well atnationals, like I surprised

(49:45):
myself, I, yeah, I had thefastest female time in the relay
, like I was partnered withDavid Sinclair and we didn't we
didn't win, but they took oursplits individually and I did
have the strongest time.
But then I, on this trip, I waslike throwing down the last
American female results, um, but, but I was like like the first

(50:08):
really, I did in Andorra.
I was like I don't know whathappened.
My body just felt like lead andone of Milan was watching me.
He works, he's kind of comesover and coaches I.
He was like you looked like youwere moving half speed and I
was like I felt like I wasmoving half speed and that's as
fast as I could go, um, and thenthe next morning I woke up with
a sore throat and I think weall got COVID, um, so I think it

(50:30):
was that, but it's hard for meto not like to be like oh,
that's not just you now, I guess.
Yeah, um, like, will I be ableto race again Like I did at
nationals?
Um, cause then the next weekendI was actually I actually
hayley and I both just seemed tohave extremely poor luck.

(50:51):
Um, I feel like we both threwdown really fast climbs in the
first half of the relay, but weboth also had some pretty bad
gear errors on this trip, um,which kind of knocked us down
because usa schema was actuallygiving funding to the top two
men, top two women, okay, and wereally both were like we got
this, um, but we both neither ofus got it oh man.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Hey, by the way, I'm really sorry if you hear noise
in the background.
I have a contractor.
We have a contractor downstairsand he's like cutting my wall
in half right now and it'smaking so much noise.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
I was like I hope that's not me, I don't know, no
no, no, I'm sorry, you hear that, damn it.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, I feel like if I went into the other
room and closed the door itwouldn't hear it, but anyway,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Back to what we were talking about yeah, um, but yeah
, so I think I do and I think,like we're lucky this year we
have Oscar, who is a coach USASchemo hired and I think it's
super helpful having him on theground watching us, watching our

(51:57):
potential, because I think ourobjective results like for
people that are involved on theboard, if they were like oh, wow
, wow, gordon heli really didn'tdo too well in those races,
like they didn't like see usbeing sick or they didn't like
they, they just see the resultsright.
But I think having our coach,oscar I don't know like I it

(52:17):
gives me some confidence becauseI think he can see the
potential um more than just likewhat actually happens.
Um, but also, that is a relayfor you.
It is like gear managementmistakes, like like there's just
so much going into the relaythat it's not just a pure
fitness test.
I think, like Haley and Idefinitely throw down some of

(52:40):
the fastest uphill times Haley'salways just a bit ahead of me,
um, but we both seem to yeah, Idon't know Like we both had a
skin failure in the relay onthis trip and it was pathetic.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Yeah, I don't think people realize how technical of
a sport it is, like it's notlike running with tennis shoes.
It's a completely differentball game.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
But you know what I think, that's what I'm finding
so much fun with it, like Iactually just listened to a
podcast about biathlon and Ifeel like schemo is kind of
similar, because the girl wastalking about like taking the
gun on and off your back.
Like you have to nail thatmovement, otherwise that's five,
ten seconds or yeah, like fivepeople moving past you, and so

(53:23):
now there's kind of standards ofhow long each transition should
take.
There's like just no room forerror, really, um, and it does
make it super exciting too.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Do you practice transitions like on dry land?
Are you just like messingaround?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
oh yeah, really there was a group of us um that would
practice at the frisco norwegcenter all summer in the grass
oh wow, um, yeah, and then yeah,inside for sure, um, and then a
way that a lot of us integrateit in is like on workout days,
like if you're doing intervals,you do a transition.

(54:01):
Like like if you have like aminute recovery between, like
you do a transition in thatminute, um, because that kind of
mimics the race, where you'relike you're out of breath,
you're kind of wobbly, um, Ifeel like that's a really good
time to be practicing them.
But yeah, I mean oscar, ourcoach once was practicing him 30
minutes every single day, whichis super.
Like I was just texting afriend about this.

(54:22):
Like there's like this sport isa freaking full-time job
because it's like you need toget like cardio and endurance
training.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
You should be skiing downhill a few times a week and
you know, mastering that, thetransitions and skills, and then
the gym, so it's like literally, you could be doing like two
kind of activities a day, likeyou think you could always do
more yeah, yeah, it's crazy too,and I feel like with skiing too
, it's one of those things wherelike because I mean it's low

(54:52):
impact, right, like you're not,it would be very easy to like
over train, because you're justthere's so much like you could
literally spend all day doing it.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
You know, it's kind of crazy yeah, well, and I was
actually chatting with cam aboutthat and I think you know it
wouldn't be the worst trainingto do that.
But I think with the focusingon the sprint and the relay,
yeah there there's no need toget that kind of insane volume.
And I think, like cam wassaying in the early days, that
was kind of what was what he didand like what everyone did like
go get all this insane amountof like vertical volume, um, but

(55:26):
I don't think that's reallyimportant, like I think 90
minutes on at the mountain islike enough for most.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah let me ask you this.
I'm actually.
That brings up an interestingquestion like for your intervals
and stuff like that, are youall heart rate based?
Are you constantly watching,like I need to be you know x
amount of time in zone four, oris it on feel Like, what is that
?
Like training for somethinglike that?

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I'm sloppy we all are I don't, I don't have a heart
rate monitor.
I kind of like I don't know,like maybe I should, maybe Megan
wants me to.
I feel like in the trainingplan I'm like, well, okay,
actually let me defend myself.
I feel like in Leadville you'reeither trying hard or you're
not.

(56:09):
There's like two, there's twoefforts up here which also maybe
I'm doing it all wrong, um, um.
But yeah, I guess she will sayI'm going all off the else.
She will say in the trainingplan, like do these intervals at
like an hour effort?
Um, and then I essentially dolike strides, but on skis, one

(56:30):
day a week, like 30 secondstrides and those are actually
like really hard.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
I think, um, like 30 second efforts or even 15 second
efforts on skis are actuallylike really hard oh, I'm sure,
yeah, that's not yeah it's notfun, yeah yeah, and like uphill
stuff too, like that's got to bea pain in the neck at 10 000
feet, like trying to dointervals.
That's horrible.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, yeah, but it's actually interesting though,
because I do think it's.
It has made me realize it's somuch more of a power sport
because, like, of course, I getsuper winded and out of breath,
but I almost feel like it's yourlegs just always trying to hold
on.
Yeah, for me at least that'sfair yeah, what a sport, that's

(57:17):
so cool.
Yeah, it's so much fun and likeyeah, I was no finish, I'm sorry
, sorry oh, I was gonna say like, like you said, the no impact
thing I think that's also whatmakes it such great training and
enjoyable is, like you likemoving more from running to this
.
I'm like, wow, I actually feelgood, like I don't just feel
beat up all the time.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
That's actually really nice yeah, it's funny, I
do it for like ever I justturned 34 a few weeks ago or
last week, and I was joking withmy buddy.
I'm like dude.
I mean, yeah, like training hasgotten like I've upped training
a lot for this season, I'mstarting to get into that phase
now of things.
But I'm like dude, I am not inpain, but I am sore all the time

(58:00):
.
I'm so tired of it.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
I'm tired too.
I gotta eat more.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
And I'm like this this sucks, but I love it.
You know it's like.
It's like the give and take.
You know it's like I wouldn'trather be doing anything else
other than that Um yeah, itwould be.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, you can't get away with like what you did in
your twenties.
You're like I actually hurtmore.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, yeah, oh my I I'm like how did I ever do this,
like you know?

Speaker 2 (58:32):
and now I'm like really like, focusing on like
for the first time.
I guess I'm getting old withwisdom and like focusing on
recovery.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Like you know, yeah, eating like super correctly and
uh, yeah, it's yeah getting old,yeah, a lot of fans yeah, I
know this.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Yeah, no, I had this boss.
Briefly, that would be like isthere something wrong with you
like that?
You need like nine hours ofsleep and I was like no, like
nine barely gets me through theday yeah, same same.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, yeah, because you have to train.
It's a high level, you have tosleep yeah yeah, and it's like
yeah again.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Like talk about time.
It's like, okay, I need like 10hours of sleep, I need my like
multiple hours to train duringthe day and somehow you need to
work a job in there.
What?

Speaker 1 (59:10):
yeah, it's so hard one of my, one of my best
friends, uh was almost anolympian swimmer.
He swam the 400.
I am in college and uh I wasjoking with him the other day
because like he, uh, he's likeliving a completely different
life now.
He's married with kids, heworks an office job and hasn't
swam in 10 years.
And we were joking because nowit's flip-flopped.

(59:31):
We're like I just partied incollege and wasn't an athlete,
and now it's flip-flopped whereI'm an athlete, and he asked me
he's like what do you do all day?
I'm like dude, I gotta behonest with you.
I spend like five hours a dayLike like I, I because I work
from home, so I'll like you know, if nothing if nothing's going
on.
I'm going to hop on the bike orI'm going to go hit the gym or
go for a run and like he's likedude, I envy you.

(59:53):
He's like I, you have such anice life.
So, yeah it's, it's funny howyou know different phases of
your life, things that you'reexcited about, and yeah, I
wouldn't rather be doinganything else.
Like it's, I'd go crazy if Iwas stagnant and like wouldn't
be able to go move and you know,do things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
So yeah, I know it feels like it gives you some
like for me at least so muchpurpose of like showing up in
other, like aspects of life,like just motivation to work.
You're like well, I have towork so I can like go to europe
and do this right.
It's like it just like makesyeah, it just like makes
everything better.
I think it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
No it's definitely true.
Who inspires you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
oh, oh man, I mean, like all the european girls, I
was like I just feel like justseeing, yeah, I guess I should
be more specific, but I thinkit's really cool to watch these
races in Europe and just watchhow talented these athletes are.

(01:00:56):
They're just flawless and it'slike, yeah, I'm like okay,
that's inspiring.
I definitely have things towork on to also get there one
day and yeah, I want to.
So, um, but yeah, sorry, that'slike not a very specific.
No, it's a good one.
It's a good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I was gonna I was just gonna ask you because I
never asked cam this and youknow it's like different from a
trail running perspective,because I feel like the
americans and trail running havereally closed the gap in a lot
of ways.
Like we beat up on theeuropeans sometimes and now that
we finally got, you know, thewomen always win utmb, which is
awesome.
Um, yeah, that said, like whatis the level, like stepping up

(01:01:37):
from like, say, an americabecause like schema was not a
huge thing in america, it'sgoing to be yeah, yeah, and it's
growing yeah, but what is that?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
like that level step up, like when you go to race,
because obviously like our guysand gals can hang, like we do
well, yeah relatively speakingyeah, I mean the world, yeah, I
mean I think I remember camsaying this too but like at the
world cup, again, like youmisstep and five people shoot
past you, um, but yeah, I guess.

(01:02:06):
For example, um, well, now Ican't remember, like it's.
It's kind of funny because,like in the us, you go from like
I don't know like almostexpecting to podium at any race
to in Schemo, especially beingon the national team, um, to

(01:02:26):
like going to the world cup andbeing like wow, 50th place, cool
, um, but then also like kind ofseeing the progress from there,
um and um, I think, for thisbeing my second season, it's
cool because like it's easier toidentify it in a vertical for
me.
But like you can be like, okay,I'm usually in this pack of

(01:02:51):
like these French girls, theseSpanish girls, like I kind of
know like there's just such ayou know, every second counts,
especially in a vertical overthere that it's like on any
given day, like this French girlwould pass me or I would pass
her, um, but yeah, we're alwayswithin like seconds on a max
effort.

(01:03:11):
So, yeah, I think you just haveto get used to like being happy
and proud of like the reallylike the seconds and just just
even showing up to a world cup,and it is such a special
experience.
Like it's just such a scene overthere and you know, so fast, so
competitive, so nerve-wracking,um, but yeah, like you're

(01:03:35):
you're just gonna get your buttwhooped and like that's what
happens, um, so you just have toexpect it.
Yeah, but again, like the menare doing great, like him and
griff and you know arthur ianhad some really good results
this year um, or he just showedup to the sprint and did really
well, kind of out of nowhere, ormaybe it wasn't out of nowhere,
um, but yeah, I think what didyou?

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
what was it like being partner with David
Sinclair Cause, like on thetrail running scene, like
David's?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
peers, he's an animal , he's a God.
Okay, like David Sinclair is a,it's a literal guy in schema,
like once he can dial his likethe tech, like he definitely has
, you know, he's just new, likethere's nothing against him.
Like I think each year we, weall, make so much improvement on
the technical side of the sportand it just it just takes time

(01:04:26):
and repetition and like racingsome world cups.
But I kind of think once davidfiles that like yeah, he's kind
of an animal, well I think thatguy will just like pull
something out of nowhere andmake it happen.
But I also kind of think thatabout like cam and griff and
yeah, yeah I mean griffin forbeing so young.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Griffin is like the future you know, in a lot of
ways.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Yeah, and you know what's so funny about him?
He's I love it's.
He definitely like embodies theslowest and smoothest.
Fast, like when you watch himtransition, he like he's kind of
slow and kind of like you'relike not slow.
He just doesn't look like.
He's like flailing andpanicking.
He just like every movement isso intentional.

(01:05:10):
He's just so smooth.
It's cool to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
He's got to be 19 years old, if he, if that he's
like, got it, he's so young Ithink he's in that range.
I raced him at cirque seriesbrighton, and I was amazed.
He's a very talented athlete,like extremely talented yeah
yeah yeah, yeah, no, he's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
I think he's spoken about his like, um, like he just
has like really high heart ratezones, um, or I don't.
I don't know, maybe it's liketrained, maybe it's genetic, I
don't know oh really, damn makessense.
Yeah, it's a freak yeah, yeah,he kind of is.
I'm like do you just like goout and like train like

(01:05:51):
something like we're not allseeing, like are you just like
putting in so much work, or.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
But he might be or did you come out of the box like
that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
yeah, yeah.
Do you have more atp than allof us?
I don't.
Or mitochondria?
I don't know.
That's funny, is it genetic?

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
we don't know.
Interesting, that's super cool.
Yeah, what's your uh, sopre-race, whether it's a schema
race or a trail running race,like what's your pump up song?
Like what's it?
What's what's the song you'relistening to?

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
um well, there's some .
Megan the stallion okay, okayum, yeah, I just like tell, yeah
, I don't know some like frontymusic.
I guess I don't know.
I'm actually not the biggestmusic person, but once in a

(01:06:40):
while I like the bad bitch mood.
Um, yeah, but I wouldn't.
But, yeah, I guess I don'talways use music.
To be honest, like I actuallydon't really train with music,
I'm more of an audiobook orpodcast stream.
Okay, yeah, yeah that'simpressive.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yeah, I like on a speed work day, like if,
especially if it's cold like, ohyeah, I'm putting on earphones
and I'm going on the treadmilllike or on the track, but like,
yeah, there's no way I'm notlistening to music on a on a
speed day usually.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
So yeah, I just think books and podcasts like are a
little more engaging for me.
Um, my interest, yeah, I don'tknow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Interesting.
So I got one.
I'm trying to think of whatgoofy question.
I usually ask something of amix of like UFOs, aliens or AI.
I think for you I'm going to gowith uh, uh, with the Bigfoot
question Like what's yourespecially cause?
You live in Leadville, uhwhat's what's your take on
Bigfoot?

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
I don't think so.
I mean if I would have like ifI saw something to make me
believe I would be, but I've notseen any traces of bigfoot yet
that's fair, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I get that a lot you know, it's usually aliens the
well, the aliens, yeah, yeah, Idon't know it's, uh, I don't
know.
I feel like the night sky inleadville is one of the most I
can remember.
I paced a buddy at Leadville acouple years ago.
And we were going over the powerline climb and it was like 2 in
the morning and I look up and Iwas astounded Because I live in
Colorado Springs and we havemore or less light pollution

(01:08:18):
here, so you don't see the starsas well.
But in Leadville, like oh, dearLord, but on ludville, like oh,
dear lord, like you see thestars, it is astounding.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
I was like oh my god I'm looking around for like
satellites and aliens and shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's.
It's really cool up here, Iknow, and we're not even a night
sky night.
What do they call it dark?

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
sky, dark sky, yeah, which is crazy community yeah, I
know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Yeah, it is pretty, it's.
I love skiing under like.
Yeah, like sometimes you canjust go under a full moon and
don't need a headlamp.
Well, actually I did that lastyear, more so than this year.
I'm like I can't get injuredagain.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Yeah, I don't get injured, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yeah, I used to ski in the pitch black, yeah.
No more for me, ill-advised.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Well, gwen, thank you so much for coming on the
podcast.
This is an amazing conversation, uh, I absolutely want to wish
you the best of luck, especiallyas you transition to move out
to uh, to europe for the rest ofthe winter.
So good luck racing and have anamazing rest of your season,
and we'll be rooting for youyeah, thank you so much and,
yeah, thanks for having me yeah,no problem.

(01:09:22):
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a great episode.
I want to thank gwen so muchfor coming on the podcast.
I mean I left that conversationjust so inspired.
Like one of my favorite thingsin life is watching people just
like go chase big goals andchase their dreams.
And you know, it's just such aninspiring story to see her just
like relocate out to europe andgo chase some big goals and
just watch, like even like allthe athletes in this you know

(01:09:43):
schemo cycle, trying to um, justcreate opportunities for
themselves and kind of see whereyou know this could potentially
land with, uh, you know severalof our athletes that we know on
the podcast, uh, you knowending up in the olympics, like
cam smith, maybe david sinclair,gwen, um griffin briley, who
knows like so many interestingfolks um, vying for for these

(01:10:05):
coveted spots, should thisbecome a thing.
So, yeah, before we get going,hop on Instagram.
Let's get Gwen some followers.
You can find her at Gwenunderscore Rudy.
That's Gwen underscore Rudy onInstagram.
Yeah, if you guys happen to beon Instagram as well, give us a
follow on the Steep Stuffpodcast.
You can find us at Steep Stuffunderscore pod.

(01:10:26):
We'd appreciate that, as I'mtrying to grow that follower
base on the Steep StuffInstagram.
There's a lot of good valuethere and some cool stuff you
guys will find in connection toour Instagram account, which is
pretty cool.
So, last but not least, one moreask If you guys wouldn't mind
giving us a five-star rating andreview on Apple, spotify or
wherever you consume yourpodcasts.

(01:10:47):
That would mean the absoluteworld to me.
That's how we can continue tofollow this great sport and tell
these amazing stories of theseathletes that are just out there
crushing and chasing theirdreams and goals, which is all
you could ask for.
Yeah, that's all I got.
One more, actually.
One last thing.
It's not all I got.
Um, yeah, that's all I got.
One more, actually.
One last thing, it's not all Igot, uh.
Two last things.
One is keep an eye out fortomorrow or friday.

(01:11:08):
I haven't decided when I'mgoing to drop it yet.
Um, still haven't recorded it,so I just kind of it's a matter
of when I edit it.
Um, but we are going to bedoing a race preview episode for
the big alta.
Um, my boy, mr nick toose, isgoing to be joining me on the
podcast.
Um, and we are going to bedoing a preview episode for the
big Alta, breaking down the 50Kand 20 AK with some household

(01:11:28):
names that are going to be there.
It's kind of the first, one ofthe big, first sub ultra barn
burner races that's going to bepopping up on the calendar for
this year.
So we're going to knock therust off and do a little race
preview episode and talk aboutthe storylines around that race,
because there's some, there'ssome high stakes going into it,

(01:11:50):
which will be pretty fun.
What else do I have for you?
Oh yeah, june 20, or sorry, notJune, jesus Christ, what is it?
March 29th Saturday I'm alittle tired.
Saturday, march 29th, at 8am, weare going to be doing our one
year, our very exciting one yearpodcast.
It's going to be super fun.
It's going to be a live podcastfrom the Colorado Running
Company in Colorado Springs.
We're going to be joined byBailey Kowalczyk.

(01:12:11):
My sponsor, ultimate Direction,is going to be there to provide
live refreshments.
We're going to be doinggiveaways.
We're going to be talking aboutsome of the new products,
including the Ultimate DirectionUltra 12 liter and race six
liter vest that just dropped,which is super fun.
In addition, nike Trail isgoing to be there to demo two

(01:12:31):
different pairs of shoes, whichis going to be sick.
One of my potential new partners, cetus, is going to be sending
some product as well to giveaway.
So first 10 to 20 peoplethrough the door there we're
going to be giving away somefree Cetus products, which is
going to be awesome.
Yeah, lots of good stuff, lotsof free giveaways and, yeah,
just an opportunity for thecommunity to be there and just

(01:12:55):
have some excitement around it.
So hope to see you guys there.
Yeah, keep an eye out forepisodes dropping Thursday and
Friday.
Enjoy yourself.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
Thank you.