#80 - Remi Leroux - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lariello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys an episode today with noneother than Mr Remy LaRue.
You guys might recognize thatname because Remy just took
third place on the podium of theBig Alta 50K this past Saturday
against the likes of EliHemming and some of the biggest
names in the sport.
Crazy kind of sub-ultra slash,ultra early season race that

(00:24):
took place this past weekend,the big Alta.
I can't believe how competitiveit absolutely was.
That 50k men's field was insane.
Guys, I'm so excited to havehad Remy on.
We talked about all kinds ofthings, including his upcoming
season where he's getting readyand gearing up for soon a piece
scramble, as well as the brokenarrow ascent and vertical
kilometer.
Remy has a whole slew of crazyaccomplishments under his name

(00:48):
Second place last year for bothfor the up down and the vertical
at the Canadian NationalChampionship, which pretty much
qualifies him to go compete atWorlds this upcoming year.
He's also taking top 10finishes, both the Broken Arrow
and the 23K, as well as theGolden Trail Series race, the
Mammoth Trail Fest last year.
Really interesting guy.

(01:11):
I love his training methodology.
I just love how dialed he islike as far as like getting
ready for these races, as wellas just you know his training
and the way he approaches thesport.
Also, he's got really coolbackground.
Coming from tennis.
He was a very competitivetennis player and just like, has
this meteoric rise to be one ofthe most talented upcoming
athletes in the sport.
And did I mention he justsigned a professional contract
with Brooks so excited to seehim on that team, as Brooks has

(01:33):
really been investing heavily inSubUltra.
So, without further ado, I'llstop rambling and let you guys
listen to this episode.
It's a personal favorite ofmine.
Can't wait to share a startline with Remy soon and get to
talk to him more.
Hope you guys enjoy this one.
It's time.

(02:04):
Ladies and gentlemen, we arelive People, earth.

(02:54):
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(03:14):
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(03:36):
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(03:56):
I'd love to hear your feedback.
Let me know what you think.
Enjoy, remy LaRue.
Welcome to the steep stuffpodcast.
How are you, man?
I'm doing great.
How are you, dude?
I'm awesome.
I'm so excited to finally sitdown and have a chat with you.
I've been a big fan of yoursfor a couple of years now.
So, um, you know we cover thesub ultra scene.
You're very much in the subultra scene, so this is a match

(04:19):
made in heaven to finally have aconversation.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, Well, thanks for having me on.
You know I've listened to a lotof your podcasts.
I remember the one with Joespecifically, which I really
enjoyed.
I mean, Joe is a biginspiration for me and I've had
the opportunity of racing him acouple of times and, yeah,
hearing him on the podcast withyou was pretty great.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Thanks, man, I appreciate that.
Yeah, he's the Joe's, the goatman.
It's uh, it's kind of crazy tosee, like, how much he's done
over the last few, you know,actually over his entire career.
It's kind of wild being in hisforties and still making teams.
So uh, yeah, it's crazy.
Um, dude, more on to you How's,how's your day going so far?

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Doing pretty good.
You know it's.
I'm here, I'm living inbasically, quebec, canada, where
our winters are pretty brutaland it kind of depends from one
winter to the other.
Like last year was actuallypretty decent, but this year
specifically has been reallyhard, like just like snow all
the time, a lot of ice on theroads, a lot of wind, uh, so

(05:19):
yeah, so today I was able to geta run in, but like pretty much
like was slipping like all thetime with kind of like a lot of
ice on the on the dirt roadshere.
But uh, yeah, I mean good dayof training, then went on to a
spin on Zwift afterwards and uh,that's pretty much it for the
day so far.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Oh, nice man, I love those days where you can kind of
, uh, get your perfect double in, you know, get on the bike, get
your run in and be able to getthose things done.
It's I don't know, it's likechecking it off the off the off
the box, right it's.
It's kind of fun, dude, forwinter, like, is it like Vermont
, where you are?
I know you're actually not toofar from Vermont, new Hampshire,
do you?

Speaker 2 (05:58):
just have like endless dirt roads to train on.
Yes, actually I'm really closeto Vermont, I'd say maybe 40
minute drive and I'm right atthe border.
So where I am, specifically inQuebec, it's very much like
Vermont in the sense that wehave a ton of dirt roads, and
that's pretty much basically whyI live here in Quebec.
In this part it's called likethe Eastern Townships, and yeah,

(06:20):
we basically have like aninfinity of dirt roads where we
can train.
And for me, it's one of mygreat like players of running.
It's just like exploring allthe countryside here and I think
it's actually great running forit's great preparation for,
like the trail running season,just because during the winter
time we can't really run trailsso much, just because there's

(06:41):
like so much snow and so muchice.
But on the dirt roads, since,like they, they plow, they
plowed roads- yeah, they ploweda road, so basically you can run
there to surface isn't too bad,but you have like a ton of
hills.
So when you think about it, Isee it, it's kind of like if
you're running trails, but likenon-technical trails with good

(07:01):
hills, so it's kind of likeactually pretty good for
training for the trail runningseason, I'd say.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, dude, the dirt roads are amazing, like we don't
have a ton out here but we,like I'd say, boulder and that
area probably has a lot more.
Um, but yeah, when you can geton to train on like steep dirt
roads, it builds strength.
Uh, obviously, it builds aphenomenal running economy
because your steps are in place,like your cadence is solid.
So, yeah, I feel like, from atraining perspective, like you
can get super fit off of justmiles and miles of rolling dirt

(07:29):
roads.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, for sure, and it's.
It's kind of like a coolfeeling, because a lot of the
time you kind of in some placeswhere you think like okay, like
there's probably very few peoplethat have ever come like at
this road, except from like thepeople that live there.
So it's kind of like a cool,like sort of um, I don't know
like I don't want to say likeredneck feeling I guess, but

(07:50):
just like a feeling of well,like I'm out here in the middle.
Yeah, blue collar, exactlythat's what I was working for.
Uh, yeah, kind of like a bluecollar feeling of being out
there, like in the sticks, oflike the countryside and just
training there.
I think it's it's.
It's pretty cool yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
I know you and Dan Kurtz are competitors.
I know you guys have raisedeach other a bunch over the last
few years and now teammates,which is pretty dope.
We'll get to that, um, but doyou ever venture down to like
train with the Northwoods guyslike him and Ben true, eric
Lapuma, I know that's not toofar away.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It's kind of like not too far away, but they're kind
of like maybe an hour and a halfsouth of the borders or so for
us to link up would take likelike one of us would have to do
like a three-hour drive, whichis, it's far, not so much, but
it's still like kind ofsignificant.
But like we've messaged eachother, each other so many times,
I'm like, oh man, we gotta linkup, we gotta do some trainings

(08:42):
together, but it never actuallyhappened.
Um, but I think, yeah, we havevery similar terrains to run on
and you know I've made the tripa lot to the northeast to do a
couple races there, where youknow I've raced down, and last,
uh, last fall, dan made the tripto do to the canadian mountain
running championships in quebec.

(09:02):
So so, yeah, that's been reallycool and hopefully this year
we'll find a moment to get sometraining in together, cause I
mean, yeah, those guys are supercool, eric and Dan, and I would
love to do some training withthem for sure.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, it's just, it's cool that there's like a solid
contingent that's continuing togrow Like dude.
I think the this past offseason, once they announced the
Cirque series races that weregoing to be in the Northeast, I
started doing like a deep diveinto like okay, what can I like
couple my schedule with?
Like cause I have family in theNortheast.
So I was like what can I couplemy schedule with and maybe stay
a little longer out there andrace a bunch of stuff?

(09:36):
And I was like kind ofpleasantly surprised on like the
Northeast scene is legit, likethere's a lot of good, like
solid, like mountain races outthere that like people don't
really talk about.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Totally and I think, looking at 2025, it's going to
be very exciting specificallyfor the month of June Cause,
like you say, for, for example,someone who would want to spend
like one month in a Northeast torace in the month of June you
basically have something everyweekend, because the first
weekend you have Sunday peacescramble is the US Champs for
the up-down, then the week afterthat you have Cirque Series at

(10:09):
Cannon Mountain, the week afterthat you have Mount Washington
Road Race and then the weekafter that, I think, you have
Cirque Series Killington.
So it's really nice.
And I think something I reallyappreciate about like those
northeast races is that they'revery focused on like the
historic side of the races, likeit's races where, like, for

(10:29):
example, mount washington roadrace or loon mountain race, like
it's races where the course hasstayed like the exact same one
year to the other and they put alot of like emphasis on like
the history of it of all thedifferent times and all the
runners that I've been there andit's kind of like it's very
simple, it's a very simpleorganization, but it's just so.

(10:50):
I don't know.
I found it kind of very coolwhen, like the organizations
like put emphasis on like thehistory of it and yeah, it's
just, it's, yeah, it's just likeclassic mountain, mountain
running really.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, dude, I mean, I would even venture like just by
like the proximity and theamount of sub ultra races in the
Northeast.
I would venture to even sayit's like the Met, like almost
like the Mecca, and the onlyreason I'll say is because, like
yeah, like we've broken arrowsin the West there's a bunch of
like um braces at like differentuh ski resorts in, in, you know
, throughout the mountain west,like uh, the cirque series and

(11:23):
stuff like that, but and youhave the rut, but outside of
that, like for me in colorado,like, dude, we don't really have
like any solid other than likekendall mountain and the a basin
race at cirque.
Like we have like no reallygood sub ultra races, I mean
pikes, you could argue for that,but there's just like not the
amount that you would have inthe northeast where you could do
it like literally back to backto back, like every weekend and

(11:44):
like have something to do whichis crazy.
Um, yeah, it's.
It's kind of cool.
I don't know, Like I waslooking at, have you ever raced?
Is it the Cranmore mountainrace?
I was just looking at that.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
I never ran that one, but I know Dan has run it in
the past and it looks reallycool.
It's just like the timing of itis kind of complicated, cause
it's like beginning of octoberand that's like where all like
so many other races take placeat the same time.
But yeah, that looks likeanother legit race that I want
to do.
It's like an up down on likeski slopes so you can go super

(12:14):
fast, and I mean that's anotherpart what I like about like
these northeast mountain races,which is kind of ironic in a
sense, because like a lot oflike the northeast trails are
super technical with like somany rocks and roots, but the
mountain races themselves areusually not super technical
because they want you to do liketo actually like run fast,

(12:35):
basically, and me I really likethat, I'd say, and yeah, I think
Cranmore is like a perfect,perfect example of that, where
you go up like some ski slopes,which is for sure like super
steep but not technical, and youcan just like bomb down like
some fire roads or some, uh,yeah, some ski slopes again.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah yeah, it's crazy , man, so much good stuff out
there.
Um, all right, let's pivot to.
I definitely want to get into alittle bit of your background.
If you wouldn't mind, just givelike a little breakdown I think
your relationship of how yougot into running is really
interesting and like talk aboutyour background with tennis as
well.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, yeah, basically I'm surprised you know that.
But yeah, I used to play tennisgrowing up, uh, basically until
the age of 19, basically, andfrom there I kind of was at a
crossroad where I had the choiceof either studying in the US
with a scholarship to pursuetennis or stay in Quebec.

(13:29):
And if I would stay in Quebecwhich I eventually had to take
the decision to do I kind of wasforced to quit tennis, just
because if you want to pursuetennis, like at a higher level,
you're kind of obligated to havelike a coach, um, like a
strength coach, you need to havesome very good like training
partners, you need to haveaccess to all these different

(13:51):
installations and at some pointit's just like it's very
expensive.
So if you're not like supportedby a bigger program, like in a
us college, then it's verydifficult to pursue on your own.
So basically, since that wasimpossible for me, I decided to
stay in Quebec and basicallyquit tennis.
And after a couple months ofnot really doing that sport
anymore, I was kind of like whatdo people do with all this time

(14:14):
?
And like this energy, like whatis?
What do people do normally?
So it kind of like was kind ofvery instinctive, where one day
I was just like, well, you knowwhat, I'll just like go out and
just go for a run, you know, andit.
I really fell in love with itpretty much immediately, just
because of the independence ofit, because I kind of was really

(14:36):
tired of all that, those stuffabout tennis, in the sense that
even though I was reallymotivated, just because, like I
didn't have access to all thesedifferent resources, like I
couldn't um level up like in thesport, whereas I felt like with
running, which was what wasreally refreshing, was that
you're in complete control ofwhat you can do, basically like

(14:57):
you don't really need anyinstallation, you only need like
a pair of running shoes and youcould just go on your own and
train it as much as you can.
Basically, and I think it'snice, when I look at it in
hindsight, that I didn't reallyhave like any friends that were
running, or I didn't have anycoach at that time.
I never didn't really knowanyone that was running, but it
was just purely like I wasrunning simply because I loved

(15:21):
it, and I think that's reallythat's really nice that it
started that way.
It kind of shows that I did itfor like the good reasons, I
guess like I was enforced bysomeone else to do it and yeah,
basically really like prettymuch was hooked on running since
the beginning and I think verytypically started doing a lot of

(15:41):
like road running at the startand looking back on how I
trained during those times, itwas very ridiculous how I would
run, because I think today inrunning, a lot of people have
access to it's like so easy tohave information about running,
like on the internet.
But even though it's not so farago but like in 2017, even like

(16:05):
if youtube and everything was athing like a lot less people
were talking about, like thetraining of running.
And since I didn't know anyonepersonally who was running, I
kind of had to do those uhresearches by myself and it was
very limited what you can find.
And, yeah, at that time I wasrunning way too much for my
level at the time and my ideawas like, okay, I want to do a

(16:28):
marathon and every time I go run, I'm kind of near the four
minutes per kilometer pace,which is like six 10 per mile.
So my idea was like, okay, if Iwant to run a marathon at four
minutes per kilometer pace everytime I'm going to go run, I'm
going to try to run at fourminutes per kilometer pace.
Every time I'm gonna go run,I'm gonna try to run at four
minutes per kilometer pace,which was like super dumb.
But if I go around like threekilometers or 20 kilometers, I'd

(16:51):
always try to like hit thatpace because in my mind it was
like this is the pace I have toget used to.
And, yeah, it actually almostworked.
I think I ran like 251 for myfirst marathon and I think
pretty solid 248 is like for aminute pace.
Um, so, yeah, so basically dida couple road races to start and

(17:11):
just slowly learned a bit morelike how to train, just like
talking to people and likemaking friends into the sport.
And then at some point, afteranother marathon where I ran
like 243, I was like okay, I'mkind of ready to try something
else.
I feel like doing another blockof like running on the roads

(17:31):
would be kind of long.
So I discovered trail runningat that time and, um, yeah, I
think, uh, what I regret I'd sayabout that period is that in my
mind it was kind of like okay,I've done marathons, now like
what's the next thing to do like, what's my next objective?

(17:52):
Well, it has to be longer thanmarathons.
So at that time I was like,okay, I've done 42k, now let's
do 50k.
Then when I did my first 50k Iwas like, oh well, let's try 50
miles.
So in my mind it was always likeevery time I finished a race
it's kind of like my idea waslike, oh well, if I want to have
another goal, I just have to golike upper in distance, whereas

(18:14):
I realize now that that's notreally the way to go, like your
goal.
I mean now I feel much moresatisfaction and I'll try the
same distance, but my next goalis just to get faster at it and
I much more appreciate that.
So, um, so, yeah.
So basically, for a coupleyears did a lot of like 50k's to
50 miles and I think thoseyears were really fun in terms

(18:39):
of training because you know, Ijust like ran a lot like in the
woods and just exploring so manytrails here in quebec, which I
mean, yeah, we don't have likesuper high peaks like in
colorado, but we have a lot ofnice trails to explore, so have
a lot of fun with that and um,but yeah, but I think in terms
of racing.
In hindsight, I didn't have somuch fun racing like the 50k to

(19:03):
50 mile distances and, um, soyeah.
So then, like fast forward acouple years back in 2023 I
think, or 2022, I ran loonmountain race, which was like my
first sub ultra, like sort oflegit mountain race, and that
was like an eye-opener for me.

(19:24):
It was like, oh my god, like,first of all, it kind of showed
me that like, oh, I'm actuallypretty good at this shorter
stuff, but I think, even moreimportantly, it showed me that I
really enjoyed that distance,like just like the racing aspect
of it, of being like you'restarting the race and it's not
like, oh you know, I should pacemyself, I have to be have to be
careful, to be careful to notgo too fast, like in an ultra.

(19:46):
I feel like for a race likeLoon Mountain, you can just go
all out from the start andthat's something that's very
cool.
And the fact that you're alwayscompeting against all other
runners during the race is veryexciting as well.
And yeah, from that point on,I've been basically focusing on
sub ultra for the past threeyears and yeah, it's been, it's

(20:09):
been really cool.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Dude, I love your story, man, and it's so
interesting to me, especiallylike not coming from the
traditional track and fieldbackground, but more so tennis.
The thing about the, about subultra and I think Joe describes
it maybe one of the best ways.
He's like there's a lot thatgoes into making a sub-ultra
athlete and a good component ofit is genetic predetermination,
like how far will your geneticstake you, because some people

(20:31):
are good at it and some peopleare just not, and there's a
little bit of wiggle room towork your ass off and get better
and improve.
But I just find it sointeresting that you'll come
across folks like you thatdidn't really do track and field
and came from a non-traditionalsport in tennis and like have
success at a high level at thesub ultra distance, which is
amazing.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I think it's really cool yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of
like don't want to think about,I don't want to believe that
genetics play a big part of it.
I think I'm a big uh, I don'tknow if I actually believe it,
but I I want to believe thatanyone can like work their way
to a high level in the sport.
Um, but yeah, I should say thateven when I was playing tennis

(21:13):
even though tennis like yes,it's not only cardio, but cardio
does play like a pretty bigrole in it and I was still like
training quite a lot like oflike endurance.
So when I started running, it'snot as if like I came from
nothing, but uh, but yeah, butstill, I didn't do any track and
field when I was growing up,which would have been fun, but

(21:35):
yeah, I would imagine like andthe only reason I say that is
like because you are.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
You stand out to me as like one of the best uphill
runners in in the world possibly.
Dude dude, I mean like you'vedone.
You've had some crazy um, youknow results.
So I would imagine your VO twomax I don't know if you've got
it measured, but I would imagineit's pretty, pretty fucking
high.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I never have, actually, but I would be
interested to do it, I think.
But I think I think it's veryspecific to uphill my ability,
because on the flats like I'mnot super great, like if I do a
5k, like I'm not going to runlike super quick, but I think
there's something about uphillsthat it's just like for me, it's
I love it and it's just perfectfor me.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
It's funny.
I was laughing and we'll get toyour YouTube channel later, but
one of the things I waslaughing about as I was watching
your, you have this amazingvideo of David Hedges versus Max
Kean I think it was the 2021 or2022 breakneck marathon and I
just thought it was funnybecause you were hanging with
them both as they were racingeach other kind of on the flats
and the descents and then all ofa sudden they're going uphill

(22:40):
and you are like paces ahead ofeverybody and I just thought it
was kind of funny.
I was like, ah, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
I was so happy that there were like these few like
downhill uphill sections nearthe end, like for people who
don't know.
It's basically like I waswaiting at.
I think there was like twomiles left to the race and I
wanted to film like the last twomiles of the race.
And for the the whole race itwas Max King who had like a huge

(23:07):
lead.
So in my mind it's like okay,like Max King is gonna come here
alone, I'm gonna like joggingin with him, like maybe like
we'll have a chat and it'll beinteresting for like people who
are watching.
But then when I saw him andthen David, like together, I was
like holy damn, like this isgonna be super fast for me, and
the last two miles was mainlydownhill and pretty technical,

(23:31):
which is, uh, pretty much myweakness, um, so basically, like
I cut a lot of moments in thevideo, but for a lot of moments
like they were gapping me andfor a lot of times I was like,
damn, like this, is it like thiskind of sucks, like I'm not
going to be able to to film themlike till the finish line?
but then, like there would belike some mini uphill sections

(23:53):
and then I would just likehammer super hard because I knew
like, okay, if I want to staywith them till the finish line,
like I have to go, I have tolike make moves almost on them,
like on the uphills, and yeah,that was so fun.
I mean, that was probably likethe best filming moment I've had
.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
I guess, dude it was a great video.
Your YouTube is incredible,like I.
I know you haven't put as manyvideos out in a little while,
but like, dude, stick with it.
Like I was blown, like I wasgetting so hyped watching these
soon to be race.
I guess someone had filmed thesoon to be race as well, and you

(24:31):
have a a great video on thereof alex ricard and yourself, joe
, and like garrett corcoran likejust killing each other in the
front.
It was really fun to followalong.
Um yeah, your youtube isawesome, man yeah, I miss that.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I think one of the things maybe less so today, but
especially like I don't know,like four or five years ago I
think one of the things that wasreally missing in our sports is
just like long form raw contentof like races, like even today,
if you think about like raceslike I don't know I'm uh, like

(24:58):
sierra zanal or things like thatyou don't find any like actual
like, like maybe, okay, goldentrail does like a pretty good
job, but I mean there's a ton ofdifferent like very big races
that you don't find any likeactual like like, maybe, okay,
golden trail does like a prettygood job, but I mean there's a
ton of different like very bigraces that you don't really find
so much like content online oflike the races themselves.
And that was kind of like myintention of like well, okay,

(25:18):
let's just, it's not thatcomplicated, you just need a
gopro.
I don't think people care aboutthe quality being like
extremely good and so basically,yeah, my idea was just like
let's just film a bunch of likeraw content of different races.
And yeah, I've had the chanceto film like uh, yeah, a lot of
races in quebec I ran, I filmedalso jfk 50 mile and yeah,

(25:42):
breakneck point was another oneand yeah, I really enjoyed those
it's.
I've kind of slacked off a bitin the last couple of years just
because when I'm racing myselfa lot it makes it a bit more
complicated to also film otherraces.
But yeah, if I'm ever likeinjured again, that's something
I want to do Like uh, for sure.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, I loved it, man , and like I think you're so're
so right, like there isespecially and this is not to
like shit on ultra at all, butlike other than the fast ultras,
I think sub ultra like has that.
I appeal to it where if?
you're in the last two miles ofa race and you see, you know two
of the best runners in thesport, like killing each other
to win, especially that sprintfinish, um, coming down the

(26:23):
grassy field or grassy knoll orwhatever you want to call it,
Like it was so exciting.
Um, and there's so many likeaspects to sub ultra that I
think pop out and are a littlemore exciting to the average
viewer as opposed to like thisis not to shit on sub ultra or
sub shit on ultra, but like atthe end of a hundred mile race,
right, Like yeah, unless it'sWestern States and that's the
front 20 people like your peopleare walking generally right, or

(26:45):
like jogging, so it's not asexciting.
Um, so I think there's that.
I appeal to that Like I thinkyou're, you're really onto
something with it.
The other thing, too, that Ithought was cool is that you
were very transparent in a lotof your workouts.
You would post these likeworkout videos of a lot of these
different um, you know, likerolling road workouts that you
would be doing like on the dirtroads and stuff, and I don't

(27:05):
know.
I just I one.
I love the transparency becauseI think, as a professional
runner, people wonder like, uh,what do we do?
Like, how do we get fit?
Like people think it's justsome you know black box there,
but like you make it much moretransparent, um, for people to
kind of see what you're up toand how you're, you know,
achieving these great things,because it could see what your
workouts are like.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, I mean I've.
I'm someone who really enjoyslike the science of it in like I
do lactate tests and all thesedifferent things.
I look at heart rate a lot andI think I guess the reason I
like to share it so much is justbecause that's kind of how I
learned about it myself is justlike watching some YouTube
videos, and you know, when Istarted trail running, basically

(27:48):
my main resource was like SageKennedy's YouTube videos.
So I think it's kind of, Iguess, in a way being kind of
like the same way of let's justshare what I want.
And I think there's also maybeanother part of me that's just
like in on social media.
I find it kind of I don't wantto say awkward, but just like I

(28:10):
never know what to share aboutbecause it's just like it
doesn't feel very genuinesometimes.
But that part of it it's kindof it feels kind of natural
because I feel like there's a,there's an actual meaning to it,
like and it can actually likeserve someone who's listening to
that message and be like ohwell, that gives me an idea,
like maybe I'll try that workoutlike next week or something,

(28:34):
whereas sometimes on socialmedia, if you're just talking
about like yourself.
It's just like, well, like,what's the point of it?
You know, like yeah yeah, if.
I see someone on the street, I'mnot not going to say like, hey
man, I just like won this racethis weekend or whatever, it's
just like it's kind of awkward.
Whereas I feel like showing abit more about, like, some
training insights, I feel likehas a bit more more meaning and

(28:58):
hopefully like yeah, I can maybegive some ideas to to some
people to do themselves givesome ideas to some people to do
themselves Dude.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
I think it's an interesting thing you bring up.
Like one of the things I'vepondered and I've had a lot of
conversations with other folksin the sport lately about is
like authenticity, but likeauthenticity on social media and
like Instagram's almost I thinkInstagram would probably be the
best example, cause it's aweird place.
It's like okay, do I like?
Obviously, brands require folksto in some ways to post, right
and.
But it's also like weird.

(29:26):
It's like do I post about?
Like okay, I could post about arace result that makes sense,
or like my experience at thisrace, but it's like what do I
post about all the other times?
I just post about, like mytraining, like what do people
think about that?
Like do I think I'm like showingoff?
I don't want to show off like,I just want to be a normal
person, so it does.
It's an interesting like, um,uh, like situation.

(29:47):
I, I, I ponder it myself.
I'm like I don't want to comeoff grandiose or like.
I'm talking about like orbraggy, you know.
So it's.
It's a weird, whereas almostlike a podcast or a YouTube
channel is much more authenticand storytelling.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
You can really truly be yourself a little bit more,
as opposed to just sharing theworld, and in photos, which is
interesting yeah, I agree, Ithink on social media, for
myself, I I can't, yeah, that'sI kind of like stick to sharing
my races and sharing my training, but kind of like in a way
where there's like a bit of likean education sort of side to it

(30:22):
and that's kind of like how Ijustify myself that it's okay to
do that and not like arrogantor any.
Yeah, like any way like that.
But yeah, I agree with you,it's social media.
When you think about it like abit too long, it's kind of like
wow, this is so strange thatlike we do that, you know.

(30:42):
But uh, but yeah, I guess, yeah, for me, I I enjoy sharing
those stuff, so it's not a it'snot such a, such a big deal,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, no, it's cool and I applaud you for it.
Like the, youtube is cool andyour blog is neat too.
I read a couple of the thingsyou put on there.
I thought that was great aswell.
I love seeing athletes at ahigh level start to like branch
out, and I'm seeing more peopledo sub stack a lot.
And there's been some greatwriting on sub stack lately.
Um, in trail running, um, yeah,it's just interesting seeing
people do different things, thatkind of um.

(31:17):
You know they can express theirvoice in the sport a little bit
more if you will, which hasbeen interesting.
Um, I want to move on to talkabout sponsor.
I know you recently just, uh,departed merrill to join the
brooks team and I thought thatwas a really exciting signing
because I love the investmentthat brooks has been putting
recently into sub ultra like Ijust think that they have.

(31:37):
I guess, if we're comparinglike itra, like probably the
deepest sub ultra and mosttalented sub ultra team in the
world right now just by how manyathletes they have Like, can
you share a little bit aboutthat experience of what it's
been like so far?
I know it's pretty fresh, butyeah, it's been really great.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I mean, to be honest, like you just mentioned it, the
fact that they have so many subultra athletes and that they
are very passionate about thesub ultra scene is something
that was really appealing to meand really made me want to like
be part of the team.
Um, like, just like in a couplemaybe next month actually I'll

(32:16):
go to seattle and we have likethis training camp with all the
north american athletes and I'mjust so excited by that.
I think there's a ton of likerunners who have been and are
still with Brooks today, whichI'm already pretty good friends
with, which is really exciting.
And, like you said, they have alot of new signings which will
be really nice to meet up withthem as well.
And yeah, I think they'rethey're sort of a vision.

(32:41):
I guess is one with which Iidentify quite a lot, in the
sense that they seem they kindof like are professional, I
guess in a way like there's athey incentivize performance
quite a bit and I don't feellike the pressure to have to do
like a thousand social mediaposts and stuff like that with

(33:04):
them.
So that's something with whichI identify quite a lot and I
really appreciate and, yeah, I'mjust really looking forward to
race and meet up, like all myfellow teammates now.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
That'd be great, man.
I mean like from a signingperspective, like Taylor Stack,
sydney Peterson, like yourselfI'm trying to think of who else
they picked up, like quite a fewnew sub ultra, like very
specific sub ultra athletes.
It was really exciting to seethat.
And then you know, like youguys have, like Roberto De
Lorenzi on the team, you know,Dan Kurtz, like it's.
Like it's a deep team dude,Like there's a lot of good,

(33:38):
solid Brooks athletes, which isexciting.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
So yeah, it's going to be really fun.
Yeah, Especially like at thegolden trail races.
I feel like we're going to belike a very strong team there,
Like.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Like all of what, like their Brooks kit at the
start.
That's going to be.
It's pretty, it's going to bepretty cool yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Let's talk, let's talk golden golden trail.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
What is your uh cause ?
I know, on ultra, ultra, signup.
I saw we'll talk about some ofyour uh planned races for this
year, but I did not see brokenarrow on there.
Are you going to be?
Are you going to be there thisyear?
I mean, okay, that's kind oflike a complicated situation of
it, because I'm hoping I'm goingto be entered with golden trail
okay because golden trail has,like this elite program that
they open during the winter andbasically if I'm accepted in
that program I can basicallysign up and have a free BIM for

(34:26):
whatever golden trail race Iwant.
But they haven't responded back.
But at the same time I know alot of other people and no one
has received any answer yet.
So I'm starting to get a bitworried about that.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't, I mean dude your2024 season was insane, like
you'll, yeah, yeah yeah, theygotta let you, if not, just
reach out to brandon and just belike yo.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Give me a yeah yeah, yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I mean
that's main broken arrow isdefinitely the the goal.
And there's also like this newrace in mexico the week after
that I definitely want to do and, um, yeah, then after that
there's a race in Austria andthen Sierras and Al.
So those would be like my fourgolden trail races this year.

(35:07):
I think Sierras and Al isdefinitely one.
It's like the race I reallywant to do.
Last year I was supposed to doit, but I got sick, like just
before the race.
Uh, well, just before a coupleweeks before.
Um, and yeah, this year I justreally want to to go out there.
I think it's such like aniconic race and, in my mind,
most likely the most competitivelike trail race simply on the

(35:31):
planet yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, I'm justreally looking forward to go out
there and, yeah, I think it'sgoing to be really exciting.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Well, I think we could dive deep, more deep, into
series and all just because Ithink from someone like yourself
, because there's so muchclimbing early on, like dude,
you have, like a, aninterestingly rare skillset to
be able to perform very well atthat race.
Um, I don't know you should.
I think if I would be, I'mbuying stock like I'm excited to
see you go see it, do it.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
So it's, it's, it's such a tricky course and I'm
really gonna have to think aboutmy strategy for it, just
because, yes, it starts likewith a really long climb, but at
the end of the climb you'rethree miles into a 20 mile race.
So it's like you can't.
It's something like that, maybea bit more than three miles,
but it's like wow, like youcan't go all out on that climb

(36:23):
and having race like sub ultra,it's like people go all out at
the beginning every time stupidso even if I go, even if I have
like a really good climb, I meanI'm probably not going to be
near the front, so I'm not goingto be like in the front, I
guess.
So it's going to be very like along race afterwards.
But yeah, it's, it's it.

(36:45):
I think it's it's a part of whythe race is so iconic is
because the course is so specialin the sense that you start
with the double vk, then youhave like very rolling section
in the middle and then at theend, like one or two miles of
like steep downhill and um, yeah, I think the preparation for it
, especially like given thelevel of competition, like you

(37:07):
actually have to do like somespecific workouts for it, like
in the sense that, okay, likeI'll do workouts where I'll
start with a steep uphill andthen I'll do some intervals on
the flat or something like that,just to like really prepare
your legs for the demands oflike the specificity of that
horse it is.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, I, I don't even know where to begin like on how
to prepare for something likethat.
Like you need like a lot ofvery specific things.
Um, from a training perspective, do you think in some of the
time leading up, maybe you'll goout to europe a little bit
early to maybe train on thecourse or see more of that?
To like get some of your lastspecific reps in, or like what
are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Uh, I think that's going to be a bit complicated
just because the week beforethere is the other golden trail
race in Austria.
So if I do have the chance torun on the course, it'll
probably be like the week of therace.
Um, so, maybe not so much, butI think one of the things I
really like doing is and I thinkI'm pretty good at this is
analyzing courses, like onStrava and all that different

(38:09):
like all the different ways youcan analyze courses, and I think
, just like analyzing the course, I'll be able to like find some
clients here in Quebec to kindof like simulate the course
itself and, um, yeah, I thinkthat's probably what I'll opt to
do instead.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, Let me ask you this.
I don't want to dial too backinto training, but just out of
curiosity, like when I know youdo a lot of like more flatter
rolling road stuff in the winterum, like a lot of people do.
But like, when do you startdialing in more specific trail
stuff?
Do you just like wait for thesnow to melt or do you try
exactly?
Is that what it is?

Speaker 2 (38:42):
okay, I mean if I could, I'd probably do mountain
stuff all year long, but justbecause our winters like are so
difficult, it's pretty muchimpossible or it's very
difficult to do like actual likeintensity in trails, basically
from december until mid-aprilbasically, um.
So yeah, basically as soon aslike mid-april starts and the

(39:04):
snow starts to melt, that's whenI get more like into trail
specific workouts, um.
But yeah, it's really dependingon the, on the conditions, I
guess, um.
But I think it's kind of nicebecause it kind of like I'm when
like mid-april comes, I'mreally excited for mountain
running workouts.
I'm kind of like I'm when likemid April comes, I'm really
excited for mountain runningworkouts.
I'm kind of like fed up ofdoing all that flat stuff and

(39:27):
it's kind of like refreshing tohave the mix of both and I do
think having some flat speedespecially for me who doesn't
have like a track and fieldbackground, to at least have
like a big part of the seasondedicated for that is pretty
beneficial.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Oh for sure, A hundred percent.
I mean, dude, just from cadencerunning economy.
There's so many things thatwill go into just continue to
make you a better, better,well-rounded athlete in general.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
So yeah, and I mean like these races now, like
golden trail races, like atMammoth Trail Fest, even though,
like most of the races are inlike trails and you're going
steep uphill, like even liketheir first two miles, which is
which was like on the road, Imean you have to be able to run
at like five minute pacecomfortably to be like in the

(40:10):
top 25 at those races.
so if you have like no, likeflat speed.
You're just like gonna startlike outside the top 50 and it's
like must be so discouraging tostart like outside the top 50
and it's like must be sodiscouraging to start a race
like so far back if you havelike the intention of like
finishing near the top.
So just for like these smallsections of like flat uh, yeah,

(40:33):
like flat terrain during theseraces, I think you kind of need
to have that, yeah, thatbackground and speed of it yeah,
you gotta have the turnover.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Let me ask you this also from a train, not just from
a training perspective, but Ido want to double back a little
bit to broken arrow, like lastyear, you doubled in the VK and
it was the 23 K correct and youhad great races at both.
What do you think you learnedto be able to take away from
last year to bring into thisyear that you think you can, you
can improve upon?
I'm just so, because that's asuch a competitive, especially

(41:02):
this year on golden trail.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
It's gonna be wild and I'd say for the vk
especially, is to not getinfluenced by what the other
runners are doing.
Because when I look back at myown race, I felt like I started
way too fast and that kind of um, I don, I don't want to say

(41:23):
ruined, but it affected menegatively, like in the second
part of the race or like, yeah,like in the second part of the
race I was kind of like fadingbecause of, like, my very fast
start.
But even though I felt like Istarted way too fast, I was
probably like 25th after thefirst one mile.
That's crazy.

(41:44):
So I think it's it's because Iwas like so influenced by the
other runners and I'm like, ohmy god, like how are so many
runners in front of me?
I have to like, I have to catchup.
I have to catch up.
But even though I was fading inlike the second half, I was
still catching so many runners.
So I think for this year wasstill catching so many runners.
So I think for this year I'llbe a bit more smart at the

(42:05):
beginning and just really focusin on my own perception of my
effort.
And even if that is like Ithink actually Mika Baudouin,
who finished third, he did likea perfect race because I think
he was even like behind me afterthe first mile.
He really did his own effortand, yeah, he finished third at
that race.
So I think this year I'lldefinitely just like, yeah,

(42:26):
focus in on my own effort, andif I'm 50th at the beginning
then that's fine, and I justhave to be confident enough that
I'll be able to reel everyonein like in that second half
that's amazing, and I think youhave the unique ability to be
able to do it Like.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Your uphill speed is so solid.
I mean, dude, last year to comeaway, what were you?
Sixth place or something likethat in the VK.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
That's amazing.
It's like it's such a crazyresult to think like.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
I mean you're talking Patrick Kip.
I raced like Philemon andPatrick so many times because I
did a lot of like World Cupstuff in the last couple of
years and, yeah, I think that'sthe only time I beat Philemon, I
think.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Dude.
All right, so I didn't want topivot too hard, but I find it
very interesting, because youare the only person that I've
had on the podcast that's beatDavid Sinclair in one year twice
, which is so crazy to think of.
You got him at.
You got him twice.
I'm trying to remember, becauseI was just looking at the stats
before we had this podcast.
You got him at the canadianmountain running champs, and
then you got him another time.
I can't remember what race itwas, though, but you did, I

(43:33):
think he was.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
I broke an arrow, vertical.
That's right, that's what itwas.
Yeah, yeah which is crazybecause like david sinclair's,
like, like he's like god level,which is kind of wild to think
about I think it kind of showsthe beauty of our sport of like
every race is so unique, like ifI would have ran, jfk david

(43:53):
would have destroyed me likefrom or like maybe a couple
hours.
But since every course is sodifferent, it just allows for
different athletes to sort ofexcel at these very like niche
differences of our sport.
And I think that's what makesit makes, like trail running in
general so cool.
Because if you compare it to,for example, like road running,

(44:17):
if X runner, if, like Kipchoge,is running against I don't know
like another roadrunner, like,even if the course changes like
a bit, 99% of the time if thisrunner, like has a faster PB
than the other runner, like thatfirst runner is probably going
to win, whereas in trail running, if a race is technical, if a

(44:40):
race is more longer, it's youknow, all these different
parameters are in play.
It just allows for differentresults every time.
As a spectator, I think that'sreally exciting.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It is.
It's a very difficult thingthen to become dominant.
You can only be dominant in theraces that like fit your skills
, skills the best.
That's why I found joe to besuch an anomaly dude, because,
like joe has been him and andy,I mean alien d is a first ballot
hall of famer joe's one of thegreatest, if not the greatest,
to ever do it, and it's likethese guys have smashed it for

(45:14):
years and years and years and onall kinds of courses too, which
is crazy to think when you have, like you in the mix, christian
Allen, el Huzin, all kinds offolks coming into the sport now,
which is crazy.
So, yeah, it's, um, it's, I'dsay, the most exciting time in
our sport, like ever, you know,with all these new, all the new
talent coming in.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, I 100% agree and I think it's also nice to
see a bit more media coverage.
Like I'm, I really love thissport as a runner, but I also
really love this sport as aspectator, like as a fan of the
sport.
And now it's very cool to see,like a lot of these races with
like who invest a lot in mediacoverage and just like uh, you

(45:57):
know, like some podcasts wherethey do previews of the races
themselves and then they dopreviews of the races themselves
and then they do breakdowns ofthe races afterwards.
I think, as a spectator of theof the sport, it just makes
things so much more enjoyableand so much more exciting to
like follow the races themselves.
And, yeah, I agree with you,it's a very exciting spot, it's
a very exciting time to followthis sport and I feel like we

(46:20):
just see so many more like roadrunners or track runners making
the switch to sub ultra runningand that's just going to elevate
the level so much and, yeah,it's going to make things so
great.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Let me ask you this so you like it as a spectator?
I'm just curious as, likesomeone that's at the very top
of this, like you're you're onyour way to being at like at the
top of the sport, like you'relike a serious competitor, how
do you like people talking aboutyou on podcasts?
Or like talking about yourperformance or talking about
this, or picking you or notpicking you?
Like, how does that playpsychologically for you?

(46:52):
Is that weird to like hear yourname and stuff like that?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Uh, no, I wouldn't say so.
I think I mean yeah, I think no, I wouldn't say so.
I think I mean yeah, I think no, I wouldn't say it's weird or
anything.
Um, uh, yeah, I think maybe oneof the particularities with me
is just that I've raced a lot ofraces, like I ran a lot of
races which people don't reallyknow about, like I've done a lot

(47:19):
about like the world cup, worldcup stuff, like WMRA, which in
North America maybe I thinkpeople don't really know that so
much it's more popular like inEurope.
So maybe, like, sometimes I'vebeen a bit like left out of
conversations just becausepeople just don't know the races
that I've done, which istotally understandable.
Um, but yeah, no, I don't findit.

(47:41):
I mean I don't take itpersonally or anything, it's
just, it's just normal.
And, um, yeah, I think it's funthat you know people talk about
that and just make previews ofraces and talk about the
athletes.
I think that's if you want tomake people more interested in
like the competitive side of thesport, I think you kind of have
to talk about like the athletes, like individually, and make

(48:08):
these comparisons and I thinkit's just going to, at the end
of the day like elevate everyone, and the athletes themselves,
because they're going to havemore visibility.
So therefore, moreopportunities with sponsors.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
I do.
I think it's a beautiful answerand I think it's a super
positive mindset to have.
The reason I ask is because,like, I'm an athlete in the
sport and I cover the sport, soit's weird for me I always am
interested to get people's takeson it because it's like you
know, if I'm having like a, ifI'm sitting here and we're doing
like a student, let's say soona P, right or broken arrow,
we're having, you know, the raceconversation about it.

(48:37):
Like we talk about strengthsand weaknesses, we talk about
all these different things.
So, and I think about how Iwould feel I'm like, oh man, if
someone you know, I would feelgreat if you're elated.
If someone's like, oh, I'd pickthis person or yourself to you
know to be, uh, I don't know, atop contender if you will, and
then like, or if someone youknow talk some beef or whatever,
I don't know, just be prepared,there's going to be a lot of.

(49:08):
We're going to have a lot ofcool conversations going into
this year with the seep stuff,like we're going to cover soon
to pee in a way that, like Ithink a lot of these mountain
running champs have never beencovered before broken arrow,
definitely.
So there's a lot of cool stuffwe're going to be doing coming
in this year.
So it's good to get yourfeedback.
Appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, but I'm all for it.
You know, I mean maybe somepeople are going to be like a
bit I don't want to saytriggered or like insulted by it
, but I mean I think I'm all forit.
You know, you just have to notpick it personally and it's just
opinions.
And yeah, opinions, and yeah, Ithink it's.

(49:45):
I mean people just have torealize it's just opinions and
if you want to show that, uhwell, you're better than what
people expect, then you justhave to do it.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Well, let's do it.
It's a competitive sport, rightlike it's.
It's conflict and conflictresolution right like yeah, we
have the conflict with the raceand we can, we and it's
resolution by who who gets, whowins, right, I don't know, and
we're talking about runningperformances.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
We're not talking about the people themselves,
their value as people.
We're talking about theirrunning performances.
I think there's such a bigdistinction to make there that
sometimes people get intertwineda bit.
But it's like yeah, to say thatsomeone is going to beat
someone at a race doesn't meanthat that person is better than
the other person.
It just means that they'rerunning performance Right.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
We think is going to be better than someone else Like
yeah.
Based off of prior performance.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Right, it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
I think it's cool on the back of like on that
competition discussion.
I'm very curious to hear, likewhat your like um your
relationship is with competition, Like, how do you view it?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
is with competition, like, how do you view it?
I think what I just said isactually something that I think
has helped me quite a lot is toseparate performance with value
as a person.
I think that's something thatI've definitely leaned on a lot
in the past couple of years, inthe sense that I think I have a
very healthy relationship withcompetition, in the sense that
when I approach races, I'm veryI don't want to say hard towards

(51:07):
myself, but I have very highgoals and like high standards
for myself.
But I think, since I'm able todifferentiate like who I am as a
person and my runningperformances, that means that if
I don't meet my goals, I'm notlike unhappy afterwards because
it's just like, well, I didn'tmeet my goals, but I'm still,

(51:29):
I'm still me, you know I'm.
It doesn't mean that I'm lessof a person afterwards and and I
think that's something that'svery important as a competitor
like who puts a lot of like highpressure like on ourselves in
terms of like performance,because if you don't make that
distinction, I think it can bereally hard after bad races to
like cope with that.

(51:50):
Um, but yeah, I mean, I, Ireally love competition and I
think, uh, yeah, I just for me,one of my biggest motivations
now in training is just to beable to to compete, and I think
that's part of why I do sub, subultra races.
It's just because, like thefeels most often time like you

(52:10):
finish within like less than aminute from other runners and
you really have to give it yourall and during the race, like
you're always you know, there'salways someone in your sight, in
front of you or behind you, andI think that aspect of sub
ultra running is something thatI really, really enjoy.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's the greatest sport on earth, man.
I have to say that, um, on thattopic, like, do you find it
easier with sub ultra, cause wedo so many races in the season?
Right, I find it easier to,like, shake off a bad
performance just because, likeall right, well, I got another
one the next weekend or theweekend after that, right, like
I feel like it's easy to forget100%.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I feel bad for people who do, who do ultras and I
have a lot of friends who dothat and sometimes it's kind of
heartbreaking because they havelike this three or four month
training block for this onespecific race.
And we all know as runners thatsome days it's out of your
control, like some days you justwake up like on the wrong side
of the bed and you just havelike a bad day.

(53:12):
And it's been veryheartbreaking to see, like, for
example, friends who have likethese amazing training blocks
but on the day of the race theyjust don't perform for x or y
rate reason.
But after an ultra you can't belike if you want to race again,
it's like, well, okay, I gottatry again in like three or four
months because it takes so longto recover from these races,

(53:33):
whereas in sub ultra, which islike so nice is if you have a
bad race, then it's like, well,okay, I can just see you next
week, exactly.
And yeah, that's that's superfun.
And you know it's not to saythat sub ultra racing is is
easier like like not at all, butit's the recovery time from
races which is much shorter thanthe ultra races and, um, yeah,

(53:58):
I think that's.
That's amazing, I think in thelast couple years years, I mean,
like I just said, I really lovecompeting and since I do
sub-ultra races, I've been ableto do so many races in the last
couple of years I think 2024 and2023, I think I ran 19 and 20
races respectively for those twoyears.

(54:20):
So, yeah, it's great, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
I think it's amazing too, because it's I mean, it's
an opportunity to build yourcareer right With all those
races.
People get your name, you getyour name out there and you can
kind of see, like, okay, wheredo I fall amongst the
competition?
So it actually helps withtraining too.
I don't know, I just find thatthere's so many good
opportunities to answerquestions and check boxes with
with uh, you know, with racingmore and having those, because
that's the other thing too.

(54:43):
I was talking to somebody theother day about like race rust
and like how it's like a realthing where, like you will
forget certain things.
So you have to do tune up racesand tune up efforts to be able
to you know, before your bigdance, or proverbial big dance,
to get ready for something likethat.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
You know.
That's so true.
Actually, in 2023, I did twotrips to Europe where in each of
the trips, I raced like fiveweeks in a row and both of those
trips my first races of thesetwo trips were like my worst
races.
But I think it was because,like it had it had been like so

(55:18):
long since I have like that raceeffort and that's sort of like
you can't you kind of like haveto be in a special mindset when
you're racing and you forgetabout it very quickly.
So I think, yeah, those firstraces went pretty bad, but since
I had that experience, I wasable to bounce back and race
really well, like for the nextweeks after that.

(55:39):
But, yeah, for someone who'sdoing ultras, like that first
race, if it went bad, then it'slike them start again in a
couple months.
So, yeah, I think there'sdefinitely an advantage of that.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
I'm just like practicing being in that
competition, the setting thecompetition setting and then
even like um, like what to eatfor breakfast, right?
Or like how many hours should Ieat before I write all these
little things that, like youknow, you might be able to get
away with on like a training run, but like, when it comes like a
impossibly hard race effort andlike you're smashing yourself
like those little things add up.

(56:10):
I have a question for you aboutultra versus sub ultra,
especially being a sub ultraathlete and then racing in
Europe.
You see how big the sport is inEurope.
It's enormous.
But the US remains veryultra-centric and I literally
was just talking to my wifeabout this the other day.
I don't know why.
I don't know what it is that'sso I don't know.

(56:33):
I find sub-ultra.
For me it's so captivating, forso many others it is, and it's
so interesting.
But I still do not know and I'mcurious to see what others
others think, like I posed thisquestion out to everybody.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Yeah, that's something I think about quite a
lot and I think there's a lot ofdifferent reasons.
I think in the media side of itI think it's pretty simple in
the sense that if people see anarticle where it's like, oh,
chris ran 300 miles for in 57hours, anyone who reads that is

(57:04):
like whoa.
Even if you don't run yourself,it's like damn, like 57 hours,
like running, that's crazy,that's insane.
So people are gonna like clickon that article and will want to
read more, whereas if you saylike, oh, like patrick kip and
gano won the vk in 33 minutes,it it's like okay, I guess
that's fast, but I don't reallyknow.

(57:24):
So I think people are maybeless interested in that.
But then I think as, like aparticipation standpoint, I
think it's just that most of therunners run because how can I
say this?
I think what they search intrail running isn't the

(57:47):
performance side of it.
It's more about just being outthere for a lot of hours in
nature and just having a goodtime.
And, yeah, I think for a lot ofthese people their challenge is
more yeah, like doing longerdistances, instead of like okay,
like I'll really push myself,like for a vertical race.

(58:10):
Um, I think for them, theaccomplishment is to finish
races, and so for the majorityof like trail running
participants, completing a vkisn't like a big enough
challenge, just because theyknow they can do it like most
people can complete a vk if youwant yeah but for them, like

(58:30):
being able to, oh like, arriveat the finish line of a 50 mile
is, for them, like a much biggeraccomplishment, just because
it's something that they're notsure at the start line that
they're going to be able to do,whereas I think, like for us,
our motivation in sub-vulturerunning is not to finish, but

(58:51):
it's to do it as fast as we canand push ourselves as much as we
can.
And I think there's less peoplethat find that appealing.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Oh, dude, that's a really good answer, and I think
it checks so many things Well.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, though and I agree 100%
with what you're saying Like,for instance, like Broken Arrow,
right, the VK I mean they musthave.
It's got to be what five or 600participants in, like a VK.
It might be a little less thanthat, but what I'm trying to get

(59:22):
at is like the VK at the BrokenArrow and the rut gets like an
enormous amount of people, solike people that are interested
in it.
The interesting thing is, like,if we had more of those in
America, or even just in NorthAmerica in general, like would
it be possible to continue togrow the sport?
Cause, you see, like you seeEurope right, and like people
know who the elites are, likeeverybody does, and it's like
this fan base, it's just likecycling, right, or just like

(59:44):
tennis or whatever.
Like people know who theprofessionals are and they
follow the sport in that way andthey also are participants in
it, whereas in America, I thinkit's a little bit less that
people care about what theelites are, and more so because
it's such a mass participationevent.
They can go, participate in it,so they just want to do it.
But I feel like if we continueto grow the people in it or the,

(01:00:05):
the fan base, if you will, byhighlighting the, the elites,
and highlighting the peopledoing it, I think that will will
continue to grow the sport andpush it in the right direction.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking out loud now, but I
think one of the reasons whymaybe a lot of like road runners
, like a lot of like massparticipants, are doing road
races is because, like, thedistances are standardized,
standardized, standardstandardized.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
You got it, you got it, you got it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, that's it well, like runners can have like very
clear objectives, like, okay, Iwant to run a half marathon
like under two hours, whereas intrail running, I think, if we
want to make it maybe moreappealing for these types of
people, like the courses have tostay like the exact same.
So, for example, the brokenarrow there has to be, like

(01:00:53):
people have to be there and belike okay, like from what I can
tell, like one hour and a halfis like a pretty good goal, so
like I'll try to go under onehour and a half or something
like that.
Um, I don't know, I'm justthinking out loud.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, no, I think it's good in the way it's
marketed, like, I think that inthe standardized distance too,
one of the things I like getfrustrated with sometimes is
like we have, um, you know, wehave the ascent, we have the
vertical, we have the up down,you know, and I feel like the up
down is not something that'stalked about really, like it
cause's more.
So, oh, we'll just do the 11kor do the the 27k, when, like,

(01:01:29):
an up down is a much easier wayto convey that, you know, convey
it so and market it if you willlike.
Well, this is an 11 or 10kdistance and they can kind of
figure it out that way.
Um, so I wonder if that's acomponent as well.
I don't know, there's a lot oflike things you can toy with to
say, like, all right, well, well, you know, how do we get more?
Cause the sport is growingenormously.
It's so crazy how many people,um and you know, obviously,

(01:01:51):
brands are making more moneythan they are, than they ever
have, which is, you know, that'sgreat Cause that trickles down
to the athletes.
Um, I don't know where I'mgoing with this, but, yeah,
it'll be interesting to see asthings progress, if we can grow
sub ultra over the next fewyears.
Yeah yeah, um, dude, reallyquick.
I do want to pivot a little bitback to the golden trail series
.
Um, cause, obviously you ranmammoth and you ran headlands

(01:02:13):
this year.
I do have a question for youabout headlands.
It was for folks that don'tknow this.
It was separated, like themen's field went on Sunday and
the women's field ran onSaturday.
What did you think aboutrunning in an all men's field?
Like, how did that like?
Was that?
What was the dynamic like forthat?
Like do you think I don't know,like this is very different.
Like I think women should havelike in in some cases for these

(01:02:35):
like high octane races, shouldhave their own fields, like what
were your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I actually think he was great.
I think, uh, I think goldentrail are pretty good with that
in the sense that they like Ithink that was one of the first
time where they're likeliterally separated from a day,
like the women's field from themen's field.
But I think, even like at otherraces, sometimes they, for
example, made the woman startlike 30 minutes before the men,
and I think that's a really goodinitiative, because if we start

(01:03:03):
all together, then 99 of thetime what happens is that the
coverage is on the men and thenwhen the men are finishing, like
when the first men arefinishing, that's where, like,
the exciting part of the women'srace is actually going on, but
we just don't see it because thecameras are focused like on the
top 10 men finishing.
So, yeah, I think it was, itwas great, like as a runner

(01:03:27):
myself, it doesn't really changemuch in the sense that, um,
yeah, I mean, it doesn't really.
I guess it's more like for thewoman that it must change a bit
more in the sense that a lot oflike the elite woman, for
example, in races where everyonestarts together, like they have
to run with a lot of like thelike competitive men and they're

(01:03:48):
surrounded by a bunch of people, so maybe for them, like, it's
a bit more complicated to know,like, what position they are,
and they have to pass a lot morepeople, which, from what I
heard, can be quite annoying fora lot of the women, and I would
not want to be in their placefor that.
So, yeah, I think I think it'sactually really great that
helens did that and I think, uh,yeah, even at mamet trail fest,

(01:04:12):
I think, yeah, the women havelike a 30 minute head start or
even more than that, because Ithink the first woman finished
before the first man.
And yeah, I think in terms ofcoverage, it's it's a very good
initiative from from goldentrail and uh, yeah, just to make
the sport more, like from aspectator standpoint, more fair,

(01:04:34):
like as much coverage for menand women, I think it's
definitely the way to go yeah,no, I agree, I just thought it
was really interesting that theydid it and I know I've only
heard just positive reviewsabout it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Dude, what did you think of headlands in the sense,
like, like that was likeprobably the fastest golden
trail race that like they mayhave ever had?
Like that was a speedy race,dude, like what, what?
What did you take away fromthat?
Were you just like?
Was that like, especially as amountain athlete who excels more
going uphill, if you will like,was that hard for you?
Like what'd you think?

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
I love the uphills, but I got so destroyed on the
downhills.
Like the downhills weren'ttechnical but there were a lot.
There were like enoughswitchbacks and like roots where
you kind of like at least forme, like I was kind of slowed
down a bit.
And I mean looking at thesplits of like Elusine or like

(01:05:25):
philemon on that last descent,it's insane.
Like I think they ran like uh,is it like a sub 14 minute 5k or
something somewhere around likea 14 minute 5k.
But like that downhill, wasn'tit like they're like yes, it was
like kind of smooth, but youhad so many switchbacks where I
mean I felt like at everyswitchback I was kind of like

(01:05:47):
forced to drop down to likeseven, seven minute per mile
pace.
So it's crazy for me like howfast they ran on the downhills.
Um, yeah, for me that race wasparticularly fresh training a
bit, just because basically thecourse was three up downs.
So yeah, three climbs, threeclimbs, three downhills, and on
every climb I would catch abunch of runners, but then on

(01:06:10):
the downhills those runnerswould then pass me back and then
I catch them again on thedownhill.
So it was like a lot of backand forth like that.
I felt like every time I was,yeah, just gaining momentum and
moving up into the field, Iwould just lose that instantly
as soon as the downhill started.
But uh, yeah, I think it was areally cool course.
I find it kind of unfortunatethat it doesn't seem to be part

(01:06:33):
of the golden trail this yearand I don't even know if the
race is going to continue toexist.
Hopefully so.
But um, yeah, that was, thatwas really fast and it was just
so exciting.
And looking at the splitsafterwards were was really

(01:06:55):
impressive, especially given thefact that I think the course
was not as fast as people think,because there were like quite a
lot of like switchbackysections where that definitely
like slow you down quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Interesting.
Yeah, dude, it's.
It's crazy to hear that Like itwas not, because on paper it
looked like smoking fast lookedlike you know um, but that's
interesting to hear, like howwild it was.
Did you what?
Did you prefer headlands ormammoth?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
in terms of course.
Of course, uh, I mean, Iactually say mammoth.
I thinkammoth was lesstechnical than Headlands
Interesting.
I think both races weren't likesuper technical, but I'd say
Mammoth was a bit less Like thatlast 14 kilometers of downhill
at Mammoth was pretty rollingand I think, given that it was

(01:07:42):
at altitude, I think it was moreadvantageous for me, just
because at altitude everyone isrunning slower.
So, um, how can I say this?
I feel like sometimes whenwe're doing downhills, I just
don't have like that turnover togo super fast, but since
everyone is going slower, thatturnover is maybe a bit less
important in a way.

(01:08:03):
Um, so I think it was moreadvantageous for me.
At mammoth and also at mammoth,you have like this huge climb
which is like the dragon's backascent, which is like a, yeah,
like a three mile climb, and forme, like those sort of climbs,
is right in my alley and I wasable to make some pretty big

(01:08:25):
moves there and I I think thatreally was good for me and, yeah
, I really appreciate it.
I really liked that courseInteresting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Cool Now.
I'm stoked to hear that youenjoyed it and I want to pivot a
little bit to the Canadianmountain running champs that you
race.
What was it?
The vertical and the up down?
Um had two amazing races, butmy curiosity out of that is that
are you planning on going toworlds in september?

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
yes, yeah yes, so I'm for sure selected for the up
down because I finished firstcanadian, behind the dan kurtz
who finished first overall forthe race for the vertical.
I'm not technically likeofficially selected yet because
I finished second behind AlexRicard who's who got like the

(01:09:16):
Canadian.
It was like basically the firstCanadian had the automatic spot
and but yeah, I mean I'm prettysure I'm going to get selected
for the vertical as well.
But yeah, I'm really excitedfor that.
It's going to be my third yearat the World Mountain Running
Champs and I think Canada thisyear is going to have like a
very good team.

(01:09:36):
I feel, like every year or everytwo years I guess, the interest
among like Canadians to be partof the team has just grown a
lot more and I think, especiallylike this year at the canadian
championships, it was veryremarkable to see how many
runners from the west made thetrip to come race here in quebec

(01:09:56):
, because I think, historically,a lot of the canadian mountain
running championships, if therace took place in west, like in
british columbia, would be onlypeople from that area who would
race.
Because I think, yeah, canada,canada is like so big like for
me to go to british columbiait's like a six-hour flight, um.
So yeah, most of the time, ifthe race would take place in the

(01:10:18):
west, it would be only westturn canadian people who would
do the race and in the east itwould be their way around.
And I think this year wasreally exciting to see so many
people from very like prettymuch almost all provinces of
quebec make the trip to uh tocome race the canadian running
championships, and I think we'regoing to have great teams, even
like on the woman's side, wehave uh jade bellsberg, who's an

(01:10:42):
amazing runner.
She finished second at brokenarrow this year.
I think that's going to be veryexciting and it is a muffin,
who's another runner from quebecwho won both the vertical and
the up down.
And yeah, I think it's going tobe.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I can't wait for for that race in september yeah, you
guys are going to bring a stackteam man, especially like you
know I was.
I was astonished back inwatching soon api, uh, and you
saw alex's finish on that videothat you have on YouTube.
It's weird because not only doI kind of view Joe as one of, if
not the greatest of all time,but not too many people get to
beat him, and seeing Alex do itI was like whoa Alex Rickard got

(01:11:20):
?
I mean?
Sorry, I mispronounced his lastname, oh, that's fair.
He's a beast dude.
I was thoroughly impressed.
I and I have um I know he's outin squamish and I had a couple
uh, jesse mccauley and a fewothers um had recommended him
come on the podcast.
We're trying to get him on nowso if he hears this, we gotta
recruit him yeah, alex is abeast like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Our nickname for him is, uh, theanimal, the animal
he's just.
He's so good man and like inthese vertical races because I
raced a lot with him in Europein 2023 especially, and his
times have been like reallyinsane.
Like we raced the Mont Blanc VKvertical kilometer at Mont

(01:12:02):
Blanc, which, like Killian hasraced that, has raced that, rémi
Bonnet has raced that and histime is like really up there.
I think like the course hasalways like changed like a bit
from year from one year toanother, but you can check like
this travel segments for likethe bigger portion of it, which
like has stayed the same, and Ithink he has like the second

(01:12:24):
fastest time or something likethat.
Wow up that course.
And yeah, I think like a steepvertical race where it's like,
let's say, like that 20 to 25percent grade, with like steps
in the course.
I think alex is like top fivein the world for sure.
Oh, we got to get him out to dothe minute to incline.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
I, yeah, I want to see somebody break Remy Bonet's
record on that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Finally, I think he would be really good at that, at
that sort of stuff, Like yeah.
Or that or like Lafley inSwitzerland.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
Yeah, so I was just going to bring that up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
People get like the vertical kilometer like world
records.
Yeah, he would be amazing forthat sort of course.
Have you ever run on thelawfully?
Uh?
Course it's.
I was there with alex, but wewere there like a couple days
after another race that we didin switzerland and it was very
tempting to like try an all-outeffort, but we didn't.
But we we checked it out andyeah, it's, it's, it's, it looks

(01:13:21):
amazing.
It's just so cool to see, likeI guess it must be kind of
similar to the manning toinkline, where you just see the
steps like going up, up, up, up,up, yep, and you can see like
so far up, uh, up the course anduh, yeah, it would be really
cool to go back there one dayand like actually try like a
full-on effort, yeah I mean itcan't be that far.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Is it that far from zonal?
I don't know?
No, that's it.
It's it's really close, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
yeah, oh, oh, dude, I think yeah, like the next day
we were in Zermatt, which isrelatively close to all that
Ceres and all.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Oh man, dude, you might have to throw that on the
list this year, yeah, it's areally cool area.
That was super cool, all right.
So we hit selections, we talkedabout the world, we talked
about worlds.
I'm trying to think if wedidn't, if we didn't hit
anything we wanted to get to umcurious to see who inspires you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Um, that's a good question.
I get inspired a lot about,like track runners.
I think a lot of the runners Ifollow uh are runners on the
track and road.
I listen a lot to the coffeeclub podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Yeah, I don't know if you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
You know those guys.
It's like a group of like atrack runners, um, who train in
Colorado, in Boulder, colorado,um, from like the OAC on
athletics club, and I mean Iguess I'm inspired by them in
the sense that I really likedtheir attitude where it's like
they're very professional, likethey train at a super high level
but at the same time, like theyhave this very laid back

(01:14:53):
approach to the sport and theyreally have fun with it.
And that's something which Ikind of find it really cool, in
the sense that you can, on onehand, be really intense with,
like, all the training and wantto do all the little things
correctly, but at the same time,you can still really enjoy it.
And I think, like sometimespeople think that they have to

(01:15:14):
make a choice between the two,but I think their sort of um
mindset is, yeah, is one with.
That I find really really cooland I guess that's what I aspire
to be for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
I like that man Dude.
What are your?
What are your thoughts on like?
So now, like you're with Brooks, I feel like you would have the
ability to live and train in alot of different places.
Like if you do, you seeyourself staying like where
you're at for a long time, or doyou think you would ever
relocate to like find like adifferent training hub or
somewhere that would fit youbetter?

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
and that's a.
That's a really great question.
I think this winter, especiallywith the winter that we've had,
I've definitely thought about ita lot more than in the past,
and it's very difficult for meto say just because for sure,
like if the question is like ifit would be more beneficial for
like uh, a pure runningstandpoint, to go stay somewhere

(01:16:11):
else, like 100%, like in Quebecwe don't have altitude, we
don't have like the highmountains, we don't have, I mean
, we have our winters, and evenin the summer, like the, it's
very, very humid, which is kindof makes it a bit more harder to
train, but at the the same time, like this is where my family
is, this is where most of myfriends are, so it'd be kind of,

(01:16:33):
I mean, I'm not sure.
I think one thing that has to betaken into consideration is
just like your happiness, likeit's not worth it to stay
somewhere else, even if you knowthat you're gonna maybe become
a better runner stayingsomewhere else, if you're gonna
be less happy staying at thatplace.
But what I am considering ismaybe, like for example, for

(01:16:54):
next winter, for like thesemonths from, let's say, january
to march, do like a trainingcamp somewhere.
Yeah, because, yeah, I thinkour winters are particularly
really hard to train through.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
No, I think it's a great answer, man, and one of
the reasons I was tempted to asktoo is just because I've seen
so much investment from Brookskind of go the way into SubUltra
.
So a part of me was like, allright, they're clearly building
like a SubUltra team.
Like I had to wonder if maybelike there is any idea of it
being like co-located at anypoint.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Oh, my God, I would love that.
If that would be the case, likehands down like I'm moving out,
like tomorrow, that's alwaysbeen the yeah, that's always
been a dream of mine, like,particularly like looking at
like the coffee club guys orlike Hanson's Brooks or just
like Brooks Beasts or teams likethat.
I think that's yeah.
Yeah, that's something thatwould be so awesome in trail

(01:17:48):
running.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
I don't think we're there yet in our sport, but I'm
all for it, yeah yeah, I think Ithink we're maybe five years
away, something like that, maybeless, maybe more.
But yeah, I think I mean theweird thing about I don't know,
like I think the, the boulderboys, have shown it can work
because they all like none ofthem do sub ultra, if you will,

(01:18:09):
like they all are ultra runners,they all run similar race,
similar distances, so it it kindof makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
But like for sub ultra too, I think, like if you
just had, like I don't know,like you, dan, uh, miki, like
you know, a handful of of guysand gals that could, you know,
uh, train at a high level like Idon't know, I think I think
that could work, dude, like justspeaking that into existence,
there you go, yeah, no yeah,totally, and yeah, it helps so
much like, uh, even thoughthey're not really sub ultra

(01:18:39):
runners, like I train with agroup of friends that do mainly
like ultra runners and uh, thatdo mostly like ultra runners and
that do mostly like ultrarunning, and even though, like
our workouts are a bit different, just like to be able to do
like our long runs together orlike our workouts at different
paces or whatever like it's, ithelps so much to be there with

(01:19:00):
like other people and yeah, Ican't imagine having people who
are there who are doing theexact same thing as you.
That must be like.
That must be like even morebeneficial.
And so, yeah, I think it woulddefinitely move everyone forward
.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Yeah, that's a cool idea.
Um, not to pivot too hard.
I'm so curious because, likeyour, your specialty is like
uphill running.
Do you think we could ever getyou out here to come do the uh,
pikes Peak Ascent?

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
100%.
I was looking at it this year,but unfortunately this year I
think it's at the same time asWorld Champs yeah.
But yeah, that's definitely oneof the races like on my list.
I think those types of raceswith a lot of history, like I
said earlier in the podcast,like are races which I'm really
appealed towards, and you knowwhere.

(01:19:49):
The course is very simple.
It's like you start at thebottom, you finish at the top
and, yeah, that's just a conceptthat is very appealing to me
and and yeah, I definitely wantto come there one day, uh, even
though, like, the altitude ismost likely going to be a pretty
big uh uh obstacle for me, butI'm all for it and uh yeah it's

(01:20:11):
definitely one on my bucket list.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Oh, dude, I love to hear it on the topic of altitude
Cause, like I was just soastonished, Like you did really
well at broken arrow in bothraces last year, how did did you
come out early, Like?
Or are you just likegenetically like really good at
like dealing with sufferingaltitude?

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Yeah, I'm really fortunate to have a friend that
has an altitude tent.
So I was able to rent it fromhim for a couple of weeks and
it's very difficult to say likethat it has definitely helped me
because I definitely felt abroken arrow, that I was running
like slower than normal, evenlike on my training runs at

(01:20:46):
Broken Arrow, that I was runninglike slower than normal, even
like on my training runs, but atthe same time, like even if you
are perfectly acclimatized,you're still running slower.
So it's very difficult to likequantify like how much it
actually helped, but at the veryminimum, like it must have not
like hindered me at all.
And yeah, yeah, when I lookback on it, it's like even

(01:21:07):
mammoth I mean mammoth was evenhigher than broken arrow Um, and
those are, those were likeprobably some of my best races
of the year Um, so, yeah, Ithink it must've helped at least
a bit, even though I felt likeI was going much slower.
But, um, yeah, I think that'show I, how I prepared, yeah,
that's interesting Good to know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Yeah, I was so curious.
I was like man, you smashed itand I was like, coming from,
seal it, basically like what, athousand feet or something like
that, or a couple thousand feet.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Oh yeah, I'm at sea level pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Okay, well, wow, that's impressive man.
Yeah, All right dude, as wewind down, I'm curious to hear,
like what, what your walkoutsong is like.
You're getting ready for a race.
You're you got if you you knowif you have earphones on.
If you're a music guy, likewhat, like what do you?
What are you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
listening to.
Okay, I'm pretty scientificabout this, so it depends on my
HRV.
So HRV is your heart ratevariability and basically when
you wake up you can check it out.
And if it's like on most smartwatch on most smart watches you
can check it out.
And if your HRV is low,basically it means that your

(01:22:14):
body is kind of like under uh,under stress a bit.
You're a bit more like stressedthan normal.
And if your HRV is super highit means like you're kind of
relaxed.
So if I see that I'm relaxedmaybe too relaxed then well,
first of all I'm going to take abit more caffeine than normal.
Plus I'm going to put like somemore like hype songs, so maybe

(01:22:34):
like some Tupac or like someEminem or stuff like that.
But if my HRV is pretty low,which means I'm kind of like
more nervous than usual, then Imight just like chill out a bit,
take less caffeine and listento like some country music and
like some Johnny Cash orsomething like that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
I like it.
I like it.
Do you get uh, do you getnerves before races, like
standing on those big startlines?
Do you get nervous at all?

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Of course I think it's.
I get worried if I'm notnervous for races.
I think it's uh, yeah, prettymuch every time I'm I'm not
nervous for races.
I think it's uh, yeah, prettymuch every time I'm pretty
nervous for it.
And um, yeah, I think I getnervous just because I know how
much it's going to hurt, and I'malso always worried about how
my mind is going to react tothat hurt because I've had a lot

(01:23:20):
of races like all the racesI've done, like those vertical
races that last like three to 40minutes.
After like 10 minutes in therace you're not feeling good.
But it's more like how am Igoing to react mentally to not
feeling good?
That's going to kind of decideif you have a good race or not.
Um, so yeah, I think it's sortof like that apprehension of

(01:23:42):
what's to come and how I'm goingto react to that.
That makes me the most nervous,I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
Yeah, no, I think it's natural being nervous.
I've long thought about Iponder this all the time because
I do.
I get nervous at start lines.
I'm like you know it's.
I guess it's natural, I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Yeah, Well, it shows that you care.
And yeah, I think that's it's agood sign.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's a weird feeling.
All right, dude.
Last question I'm so curious tohear this because I usually ask
people like a grouping of doyou believe in Bigfoot, do you
believe in aliens, ai?
I'm so curious to hear if youbelieve in Bigfoot.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
If I believe in Bigfoot, what?

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
the heck In Canada.
That's not really a thing I'dsay what I'm going to say.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
no.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Hard no.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Oh man, all right, that's a hard one, that was a
big shoot down.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
All right, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Well, Remy, thank you so much for coming on the
podcast.
This is an amazing conversation, dude.
I think we covered a ton.
I want to wish you the absolutebest of luck in 2025.
We'll be in touch.
I'll see you at Soonapy andwe'll be doing some pre and post
race interviews at soon to be.
Uh, definitely with you, solooking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Yeah, man Can't wait to see you there.
Thank you so much for invitingme today.
Yeah, this is a greatconversation.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
Thanks, man, thank you.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, such a fun episode.
Thanks so much to Remy forcoming on and absolute
congratulations for that thirdplace at big Alta.
Can't wait to see what Remy'sgoing to do this season.
I'm sure he's going to be.
He's going to spank some folksat some of these races.
The dude is dynamite.
All right, before we get going,hop on Instagram.

(01:25:11):
Let's get Remy some followers.
You can find him at Remy, soit's R-E-M-I underscore,
l-e-r-o-u-x underscore.
You can also just type in,probably the Leroux, l-e-r-o-u-x
.
And it'll come up on Instagramand give him a follow.
I'm sure he would appreciatethat.
Send him some emails or sendhim some messages of some kind
words congratulating him on hisfinish, as well as what you guys

(01:25:34):
thought of the episode, I'msure he'd love to hear from you.
Cool Guys, I've got some bignews this week.
So this upcoming Saturday, the29th, at 8 o'clock in the
morning, colorado RunningCompany.
I know I sound like a brokenrecord, but if you are on the
front range and are interestedin joining us for our one-year
anniversary, we're going to bedoing a group run.
It's going to be two distances,one four-mile and one six to

(01:25:55):
seven-mile-ish distance andthose are going to start out the
door, probably around 8.05 to8.10 in the morning.
First 20 people through thedoor are going to get a free
pair of Cetus socks that I'msuper excited to give away.
Cetus USA was super kind toprovide us with some discount
codes and some free socks to beable to give away to those folks

(01:26:16):
that show up.
In addition, after that grouprun, we are going to be doing
some refreshments provided byUltimate Direction, as well as
Colorado Running Company andsome conversation.
We're going to have Mutt Rockout there.
Mutt Rock's going to be talkingabout some of their products.
Our friends from Taba Tours,the Taba Lodge out in Colorado

(01:26:37):
Springs, are going to be outthere talking about some of the
projects they're working on andtheir vision for what they have
for their business.
That's going to be followed bysome product demos and
discussion around those fromUltimate Direction who's going
to be giving away a bunch offree gear.
Most of this situation, most ofthis day, is brought to you by

(01:26:58):
Ultimate Direction.
They're going to be giving awaya ton of stuff and they're
going to be demoing the new Raceand UltraVest, the Race 6 liter
and ultra 12 liter that justdropped that most people have
not seen yet.
Um, so I'm excited for folksthat show up to get to see those
products.
Um, cause they're super cool.
Um, we're also going to bedoing a trail, a trail shoe
demos.
Um, nike is going to be therewith two Nike trail is going to

(01:27:20):
be there with two um shoes Ithink it's the wild horse and
maybe a new version of the Kyger, I can't specifically remember.
I was told this information Ishould have remembered.
But, yeah, just expect to beable to try on two different new
pairs of Nike trail shoe and Ithink you'll be able to take
those with you on your group run, I believe.

(01:27:40):
All that followed up and cappedoff with an amazing podcast with
Bailey Kowalczyk, who's goingto be our guest of honor.
She is going to be on the podfor a live podcast in front of
the audience at the ColoradoRunning Company, so we're so
excited.
I think it's going to be areally fun, action-packed day.
Hope you guys can make it.
Would love to see you all there.
Cool, all right, very, very,very.

(01:28:01):
Last and very, very not least,if you guys enjoyed this episode
, please leave us a five-starrating review on Apple, spotify
or YouTube, wherever you getyour podcasts, if you really
really enjoyed it, please leaveus a rating and write why.
On Apple, because that helpsour discoverability on Apple on
their platform and that would beamazing.
Thanks so much, guys.
I really appreciate it.

(01:28:21):
Sorry for the long ramble and Ihope to see you guys all on
Saturday.
Thank you.

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#80 - Remi Leroux

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