#83 - Bailey Kowalczyk & The Steep Stuff Podcast 1 year Celebration Party - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys our one-year anniversarycelebration episode from this
past Saturday at the ColoradoRunning Company.
If you didn't happen to bethere in person, you'll get to
catch it on the pod, with noneother than Miss Bailey Kowalczyk
, the three-timeback-to-back-to-back RUT 28K

(00:21):
champion, and so much morejoined us on the pod.
What a fun conversation.
It was really fun to finallyget to meet bailey and mogli.
Big shout out to mogli, um, anduh, yeah, just welcome her into
the community you know thecolorado springs running
community and just have a chat.
We we got pretty deep intobailey's college years.
We talked about her years atclemson, what it was like
growing up in upstate new yorkas well, um, being surrounded by

(00:43):
just so many cool mountainranges and the Catskills.
They had a Roddex and theGreens as well.
From Vermont.
We dove deep as well intoracing the Golden Trail and
dealing with injury Her firstsacrum injury that Bailey had
when she broke her sacrum at theBark Trail Mountain Race.

(01:03):
We got into Deep in the GoldenTrail.
We talked about some of herplans for the future there, as
well as plans at Broken Arrowand trying to qualify for Worlds
in 2025 and get back on thatWorlds team.
What it was like as wellgetting into joining the Worlds
teams and competing it in,trying to compete it in

(01:24):
Innsbruck and dealing withhaving to drop from that race
and all these different things.
It was a super fun episode.
I think the audience took a tonaway from it.
It was fun to ask Bailey allthese questions in front of a
live audience and get questionsback from them and feedback for
Bailey.
Yeah, it was such a blast Ifyou were there in person.
I just want to genuinely thankall of you from the bottom of my

(01:45):
heart.
It really did mean so much tome to finally get to do this in
person and just get to haveeveryone from the community out.
It was a massive success and,yeah, I can't wait to do it
again and it was just a blast.
So, without further ado, I'llstop rambling.
We'll get into more stuff inthe show notes, more thank yous
and stuff like that.
But yeah, here's baileykowalczyk.

(02:06):
Enjoy, guys.
It's time.
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(03:17):
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Speaker 2 (04:21):
Enjoy what's up guys, welcome.
Welcome back to the.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Steep Stuff Podcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and today we've got a banger of
an episode for you.
None other than BaileyKowalczyk, who's sitting three
feet away from me, is on thepodcast.
So excited to have you on.
How are you doing, bailey?

Speaker 3 (04:36):
How are you doing?
I'm super stoked to be here.
Yeah, it's awesome to be inperson.
I've never done this formatbefore, so happy to chat.
Yeah, sweet.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, me either.
So this is going to be a newone.
It's kind of fun.
Thank you all the audience forcoming.
Guys, this means the world tome.
This is our one year, which youall know.
This is our one yearanniversary for the pod, so I
figured we have one of thebiggest names in SubUltra to
come join us.
Um, you know, like three-timerut 28k champion, um, world's

(05:05):
team, like just belly's, hadsuch an incredible resume, so
excited to, uh, finally have aconversation with you.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Sorry, I'm talking to them and I'm talking to you.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
We're all here together.
I love it all, right, so maybeuh for the audience, maybe give
me uh like the five minuteelevator pitch on where you're
from, your background, yourrelationship with running.
Maybe stop when you get toClemson.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay, so my name is Bailey Kowalczyk.
I'm from Boulder, colorado, byway of upstate New York, so I
grew up in upstate New York.
I ran track both in high schooland then beyond.

(05:46):
But, um, I come from a familyof some runners and and I think
I've always been drawn to thesport in ways.
I played soccer as a kid andthis the ball part of the sport
never appealed to me.
It was literally just runninglaps, and the best part of
practice was when somealed.
To me, it was literally justrunning laps, and the best part
of practice was when someonewould do something wrong and I

(06:08):
would get to run the penalty laparound the field and I think
that's kind of where the seedwas planted.
But that just sprouted inupstate New York it's such a big
culture.
It's kind of like the highschool programs are basically
college programs.
So it was.
It was a bit of a pressurecooker, but at the time it

(06:30):
allowed me to fall more and morein love with the sport, which
ultimately led me to DivisionOne running at Clemson
University.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Super cool.
Yeah, your background is socool, so we've got some audience
members in here.
Shout out Joey and Rose fromupstate New York.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
They're from Highland New York, so just a little bit
further south, you're like northof Albany, right, yeah, so I
say Saratoga Springs area, butSaratoga was our rival, so close
enough.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Do you feel like because you've got the Catskills
, you've got the Adirondacks,you've got theills, you've got
the Adirondacks, you got thegreens, you got the whites like
that beautiful area betweenVermont, new Hampshire, upstate
New York, like?
Is that like an emphasis on youor like a kind of a push to
like find this love for themountains?

Speaker 3 (07:12):
Yeah, I grew up, we spent the weekends in the
Adirondacks, so I grew up skiingthere, running there.
It was basically we would go onthese family hikes where we
would all hike up and then mydad would just sprint down the
mountain.
So I would, I mean, my onlyoption was to keep up.
So I ran as hard as I coulddown and I think I think that

(07:33):
led to I mean one a little bitof a lack of fear when it comes
to terrain and running downsteep stuff.
I just got really used to beingcomfortable on that kind of
terrain and I never thought ofit as running.
To me, running was on the roads, on the track, running these
ridiculously fast paces.
It was never more than that.

(07:54):
And then, you know, as timeevolved, I discovered that you
could kind of put these passionstogether my passion for being
outside, being on the trails,but also that passion for
running and competing.
And I've blended that and nowhave, like, found the happiest
place ever.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
So what was it like?
High school getting recruitedby because, like D1, that's a
huge deal, you know, like that'sthe pointy tip of the spear for
collegiate athletes, you knowto go to a D1, especially at
Clemson.
What was that like for you,getting recruited, and like what
was that recruitment processlike?
Was there any other schools youwere looking at?
Like, how did Clemson becomethe one?

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, there were probably five or six schools
that I was looking at.
It was a really stressfulprocess.
In the moment it felt like itwas the end of the world, like
if I didn't make the rightdecision my whole life would be
just in disarray, which, lookingback on, is a little bit silly.
But at the time it was soexciting to be able to further

(08:52):
my career, to be able to runagainst the best of the best.
I mean, I wanted to go.
I wanted to go somewhere warmer.
So for me, I was looking atschools that were South.
I don't know why I didn't everthink West, but I looked at
schools that were in the South,um, so I think they were like
Virginia.
I looked at North Carolina um,just the standard kind of ACC

(09:16):
schools.
Um, clemson stood out becausethey had an amazing coach that
seems to care about the holisticperson behind the athlete, and
that was something that wasimportant to me at the time.
Unfortunately, the entirecoaching staff left two weeks
before I went to school, so thatkind of changed the entire

(09:36):
experience that I had at Clemson.
I didn't end up working withthe coach that I had kind of
done the research to go therefor, but yeah, that was kind of
what went into that decision.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Now, college was a difficult time for you, like
really difficult.
Can you maybe open up a littlebit about like the pressure to
maintain like a certain weightand like what that does to you
as like a competitive athleteand how it just breaks you down?
Like what was that situationlike for you, especially with
your coaching staff?

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, I think that was one of the most surprising
things for me.
I knew that there wereundertones of unhealthy things
happening in this space, but itdidn't feel like something that
would ever happen to me when Iwent into college.
My coach in high school was sohealthy and I felt really
supported by him just in thebody that I was in, because
that's the body that wasperforming Um.
But at Clemson there was we hadto get our um body fat

(10:31):
percentage checked every week,which is a little interesting
because I don't really think itchanges every week, but we got
our body fat percentage testedevery week.
We had to set goals for whatthat number would be, which, as
a 17 year old, how do you knowhow to set those goals?
We were misguided into whatthose numbers should look like.
So for females, most of thenumbers would require losing

(10:52):
your period, which impacts bonehealth, and none of that was
told to us in the time.
So I think you know I wassetting these huge goals to get
to a certain body fat percentage, that that wasn't where my body
was happy, and then also on theside, having these
conversations with the coachingstaff where numbers were thrown
out If you lose X amount ofweight, then you could be an

(11:15):
NCAA champion, you could do this.
So there's kind of that carrotin front of you where it's like
I trust these people, I want tobe an NCAA champion, I want to
be the best that I possibly canbe.
I still had these aspirationsto go professional after college
and I think, um, I just wantedto do anything it took to get
there.
So I made micro changes, I madeadjustments to try to get to

(11:37):
these goals that we had set, andthen it spiraled out of control
, both mentally and physically.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
And how did that end with you at Clemson?
Did you just leave the program,or like what happened after
that?

Speaker 3 (11:49):
I was actually medically removed from the
program.
So I became too healthy, toounhealthy to continue running at
all, and I was removed fromschool for a few months to
undergo treatment for anorexia,which is a very dramatic way to

(12:12):
kind of end my.
I didn't know that I was endingmy college career at the time,
but I ultimately ended uptransferring because the healthy
minded me figured out that itwas not a great idea to go put
myself back in the samesituation that that instigated
this spiral.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
What did that do to your relationship with running
Like, were you just done afterthat or yeah, I thought I was
retiring at the age of 19.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I thought I was retiring from the sport never to
run again.
I moved to Boulder, colorado,which is a really ironic place
to move to when you're retiringfrom running.
Um, and I think that's wherethe water got a little bit more.
It was, you know.
I got to Boulder and I was likeI don't know how I'm supposed
to identify myself.
I had to finish school, so Ithrew myself headfirst into

(13:00):
school.
Um, finished seventh in myclass there, which is like I
really married school, and Ithink that's kind of what took
over the running identity.
For a while it was like, okay,I'm just going to pour
everything I have into school.
But there was still.
You know, I'm staring out mywindow watching the CU team run
by and getting sad every time Isee runners, which is a lot of

(13:23):
the time.
Um, and then just spending mylife like hiking every peak in
Boulder and skiing and reallythrowing myself into that
outdoor the non just purerunning side of things yeah so
you moved to Boulder and howlong did it take?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
how many years before you were like you should do a
jog, or did you meet andy likeand how did that like come
together?
Because I know andy rack wackerwas a big influence for you
andy wacker was a huge influencefor me, I would say so.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
I I came to boulder probably I was still jogging,
maybe like two to three mileshere and there and it was just.
It was very unfulfillingrunning, I would say.
I would say I was there forprobably about a year before my
parents motivated me to sign upfor the Boulder Track Club,

(14:13):
which was like very lowcommitment.
One day a week you meet withthis group and I was.
It just took a hold.
So fast.
I was like oh, I'm a competitiverunner again.
This is so fun, like such agood community.
It felt healthy.
I was competing again andthat's kind of where I met andy
through that and decided to kindof take it up a little bit like

(14:35):
, okay, I'll have andy coach mefor a bit and I'll compete on
the track again.
And in my head I was still aroad track athlete, so that's
kind of the way that I was stillgoing with that.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Was your first trail race, btmr.
Yes, it was the audience waslike we're in Colorado Springs.
Your first trail race was BTMR.
Uh, what was it 2019.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
2019.
Yes, it was so dramatic andBortrell.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Mountain Race for people that don't know.
That's you know what is it.
It's so dramatic and bar trail.
Mountain race for people thatdon't know.
That's you know what is it.
It's a half marathonishdistance.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Three thirty three to thirty six hundred feet of
climbing and you broke yoursacrum in the race.
Right, yeah, talk about that,yeah, so, um, yeah.
So one thing led to another.
With andy, I quickly foundtrails.
It was a very quick like.
This was like a three monthprocess he somehow convinced me
to run a half marathon up amountain, which for a 1500
runner is kind of a big deal.
Um, bar trail.
I still have a bone to pickwith that trail, like I'm still

(15:32):
trying to figure out themountain here, um, but it's such
a fun race it.
I was just so excited to beable to to race on trails and
race something super fun andblend these worlds.
I would say so on the way upthe mountain because it's just a
simple out and back.
On the way up I started to feelthis weird back pain and I was

(15:54):
like, well, maybe this is howtrail running is, maybe it's
supposed to be really painful.
Like maybe my kidneys arefailing, I don't know.
Like this does not feelcomfortable, but nothing ever
feels that comfortable whenyou're running.
But then I turned around and Iwent to go down and I love
downhills.
So I just started sprinting andall of a sudden my leg gave out

(16:14):
and I was like rolling down thetrail and that happened like
six times.
I mean a lot of part of me islike why didn't I stop?
But it's not the mostlogistically sound race to stop
and.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
I would have had to like still make it to the bottom
.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
So, and I was in second.
So the competitive part of mewas like, no, you're gonna keep
going, maybe just scale it backa little.
But even scaled back, like myleg was giving out, it was super
painful.
I was like then I was likebleeding everywhere.
Like this is so bizarre, thissport is really weird.
Um, but I got second was superpainful.
I was like then I was likebleeding everywhere.
Like this is so bizarre, thissport is really weird.
Um, but I got second was superhappy about that, and then I
couldn't walk and had 25stitches and half of my knees

(16:56):
are still on the mountain.
It's um was a very dramaticstart.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
But I remember the first thought, like, even though
it was the most ridiculous painI've ever had, I was like I'm
doing that again whenever thisis over, I'm doing that again so
this is like right before thepandemic too, yeah, and then
like so this is what I gotta askyou because, looking at your
like results and stuff, like in2020 you went to go compete at
the golden trail world series itwas the stage race, right, can

(17:21):
you talk about that?
Because, like, jim was in thatrace, like so many like
household names that we have nowthat like Rachel Drake, like so
many people, what was that?

Speaker 3 (17:28):
like, and how did?

Speaker 1 (17:29):
you qualify for that thing.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, it was interesting, so I raced, um.
I raced maybe once more thatyear after I was injured and
then the pandemic obviouslyhappened and they, once it was
in that weird zone where likepeople were, you know, like a
little bit less freaked out, butnot quite to the point of

(17:54):
traveling.
They did this competition kindof like a golden ticket
competition from your owndoorstep.
So basically they were likefive different routes in the U S
, like FKT routes, and if yougot the FKT then you qualified
to go to this grand finale stagerace in um Azores islands in

(18:16):
Portugal, and I got the skylinetraverse FKT in Boulder and
that's um.
That's what got me there was Ijust went out and ran as hard as
I possibly could against myself, which was so fun.
I think the pandemic actuallyhelped me love the sport more,
just me versus myself versus thetrails, and so that qualified

(18:37):
me and Jim qualified through.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Arizona or something like that.
Yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Arizona and then Enchantments was one of them, so
I know that's how Rachel Drakequalified, but it was a great
group of people and I thinkthat's kind of what got me
hooked on Golden Trail was thatstage race.
I was definitely not ready fora stage race, but it was still
like such a great experience.
People would go out there,compete for at least a few of
the days and just see what theinternational side of the sport

(19:04):
is like.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
What did you think Like?
What did you think about likecompeting internationally, like
it was just like just a level up, was that?
I mean, because Golden Trail islike as hard as it gets right.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, I would say it wasn't the same, as I mean, I've
obviously competedinternationally a lot since then
and because of COVID therewasn't the fan base that you
usually see.
But I saw in the athletes, Isaw the passion.
These people were bred to trailrun and I think that was so
exciting for me.
I was like I'm coming back andI'm racing these people again

(19:35):
and I'm going to perfect thisgame.
This is so fun.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
I've got to ask you, because this is a big part of
your career did that open thedoor for you to join the Solomon
team going there?

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, so your career, like, did that open the door
for you to join the Solomon teamgoing there?
Yeah, so that that kind of thatopened.
I think the just getting thegolden ticket opened the Solomon
US door and I was on the teamkind of loosely for a year and
then that solidified the dealand I was with Solomon for three
years total yeah, and that wasa pretty big part of your career

(20:06):
.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Like 20 was a 21 through well, 20 through 23.
Because 2022 was probably likeone of the biggest years of your
career.
You took first american andseries and all was that
life-changing for you.
Like going to series and alland like getting fifth place and
like the most competitive raceon the planet, like yeah, that
was.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I mean, that was like a dream day.
I feel like 2022 yeah, I'd say,2022 is when things took off
and I feel like it was likeeverything really came together
that year and, yeah, sears andall was.
I still dream about that dayand talk about it.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I want to hear like, what was it like?
Did you know you were in likefifth place?
Like were you hunting otherladies?
Like what was that?
How did that race unplay foryou?

Speaker 3 (20:46):
I knew I was in fifth place, but I kind of was
holding on for dear life andcouldn't believe it.
It was a little bit of like Iknow where I am in this race.
Don't ask questions, just keeprunning as hard as you can.
Um, and I've had races feellike that since then, but maybe
on less of a big stage, if thatmakes sense.
But that was I love.

(21:08):
I mean, I love steep terrainand everyone makes Sears and all
sound like it's a road race.
It's not, it's a double vk tostart.
So I think that's where, like,I felt so good.
I had some issues in thebeginning of that year and
didn't actually start traininguntil June, and so I think I
actually thrive off of likebeing a little undercooked,

(21:28):
which sounds really weird, likeI didn't perfect the training.
Everyone's talking about allthis data going into the race
and I'm like I'm not preparedfor this race at all and
honestly, it was like one of thebest races in my life and yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Can you talk about, maybe, the course a little bit,
just because you said it startsoff with the W double VK and
then you're done.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
But it's a net uphill so you gain maybe seven ish

(22:08):
thousand feet and you lose likethree thousand um.
So it is like a fast person'scourse.
It's very smooth, um.
I would say you kind of want tobe a jack-of-all-trades, but I
think, like the road part of medid help, like having speed
helps on the top because you'rerunning really fast, but you

(22:28):
also like can't just take a pureroad runner and expect them to
run a wbk.
So it's kind of fun to havethat arsenal.
Like I know how to climb but Ialso know how to run pretty well
and like you put them togetherand yeah, can you talk about
like how mentally it is to racea lot of these, especially like
on the ladies side.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
like you especially doing the golden trail series,
you start to learn people'sstyle.
Some people are really good onthe uphill, some people are
really good downhillers.
You see, like how you can kindof apply your skills to to beat
them but like at the same timerun your own race.
How do you go into a race likethat, thinking about it like
what is your MO?
Is it just run my own race oris it like I need to be
strategic and put myself in thisrace from the beginning?

Speaker 3 (23:07):
So it's a fine balance.
I think it depends on the racea little bit, but for the most
part I kind of have to put theblinders on a bit.
Um, I think what I've noticedis that if I focus too much on
what everybody else around me isdoing, I get so caught up in
that and lose focus on theactual race, like for me.
I mean, for me, there's a lotof my past that that makes me so

(23:31):
grateful just to get to a startline and be healthy and be able
to compete, and so remindingmyself of that allows me to be
in the moment.
And then it'd be silly if I'mlike, yeah, I'm ignoring
everyone that's there whenpeople I tend to like to take it
out hot.
So I usually just go with andthis is obviously for races that

(23:52):
are like three-ish hours andless but I tend to go with
whoever's going out in front,and so it's like I don't know
how much strategy is in it asmuch as like hang on for dear
life, settle in and then hang onfor dear life.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
It's a very Eurocentric way of racing.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
It is yeah, and I think that's why, like, I try
not to overthink it, and I thinkthat's why, like I've had, you
know, I haven't like fullyknocked everything out of the
park, but I've had success inEurope and it's um.
I mean, like Nick and I did theum race preview for Zagama, I

(24:30):
think you were both of our picksto like either get on the
podium or win that damn race.
I ran like three quarters of therace in second and third place,
and then all of a sudden it waslike the wheels were falling
off.
But that's.
That's like an example of arace where it's like maybe
there's ways that I could havedone things a little bit
differently yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, it's such a weird, especially like I don't
know technicality.
It seems like you're so goodtechnically.
I mean, we can talk about therun we'll get into that in a
little bit but like, yeah, whatis it about?
Technical running that like youjust like really enjoy it or
like because you're very good atit I really enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
I I mean, I think it's important for trail runners
to be versatile.
I think it's you never.
I mean it's just nice to beable to like.
If world's qualifiers isnon-technical one year, great, I
feel like I can compete.
If it's technical, I feel likeI can compete.
I do like the technicalitybetter.
I think part of it is what Ifound myself enjoying in Boulder

(25:27):
and what I train on a lot, butthen also, like I think part of
it does kind of in mysubconscious, speak to the
Adirondacks are not untechnical,and so I think I just got
really comfortable on that and Ialso realized that there's a
lot of women that aren't good atthat.

(25:47):
So it's kind of, I mean it's funto know that I have a leg up on
this terrain, so then I want towork on it more and then it
becomes even more of a skillset.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
John.
It's interesting to me becausewhen I had Johnny on the podcast
like that is the most dialedhuman I've ever met.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Well, that's the other thing is that when you
have to chase him down mountains.
It's like life or death.
I mean.
He obviously slows down for meto keep up, but I feel like he's
given me a lot of skills to beable to thrive on that terrain.
He's hands down one of the bestdownhillers in the world Easily
and I think that allows me tokind of feed off of that.

(26:21):
I like to be in good companyand I think that that's um
really benefited me over theyears.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Let's talk Boulder.
So you, you live with otherathletes that are professional
athletes.
Is it, especially now thatyou've been there for so long,
do you feel like, if you'regoing through a period of injury
or you're not running, at thatpoint in time do you have FOMO?
Like is it hard to post stuffon Strava all the time?
Like I always ask this topeople that live in Boulder
because it's like there, it'slike there's just so many

(26:50):
athletes there and there's justlike I feel, like to me I would
feel pressure.
How does that feel?

Speaker 3 (26:54):
I would say I've evolved.
Um, back in 2019, 2020, I hadthe sacrum injury.
Um, I actually ended upbreaking the other side of the
sacrum right after, which is sounfortunate, and I haven't been
injured since then until now.
But that double whammy like Ihad just a terrible mindset.

(27:16):
It was like everyone else getsto do this.
Woe is me.
It's really hard to feelmotivated.
Like I had nothing to say onsocial media.
It feels like a weakness.
So I felt like I had to hide itfrom my team, my athlete
manager, like it felt likesomething that I didn't want to
share, like it's a weak part ofme.
Everyone else is doing all thesefun things and now I think I've

(27:36):
grown to the point that it'slike, okay, every athlete gets
injured.
That's part of the gamble thatwe work with.
I mean, that's part of likewe're testing our bodies to the
edge so often that obviouslythings are going to break down
here and there and that's that'snatural and being able to own
that as a sign of maturity andand yes, it's still hard to see

(27:58):
everybody doing all these things, but it's also there's so many
other ways to get outside and toto still be connected to the
reason.
You know that we do this thingin the first place, and um, so
that's kind of been groundingfor me.
But I would say Strava doesalways make things more
challenging.
It's like I I've grown in thatsense too, but it still is like,

(28:22):
oh, this person's doing that,why am I doing this?

Speaker 1 (28:25):
that's I follow five people on strava and like, and I
don't really ever go on it likeI'm very careful about I don't
know, I don't.
It's not that it's fomo, butit's like I don't want to see
what anybody else is doingbecause I want to be very
focused on my own thing.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
It's easy to compare.
It's very, especially whenyou're like I know this person's
race schedule is the same asmine.
I'm doing this, they're doingthat.
There's so many different waysto get to a start line healthy
and fit.
You don't need to do what theother person is doing.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Sure, that's very true.
Yeah, it's crazy, like theStrava thing with social media.
I was going to ask you aboutthis Like, do you find it hard
as a professional athlete tobalance, like having to put
stuff out there about your lifeand like what your training is
like, and all that on Instagramwhile also training?
Like, what is that dichotomylike for you?

Speaker 3 (29:05):
I kind of enjoy it, weirdly.
I think for me I like thebigger part of um.
I mean, for me it's reallyimportant to inspire the
community, inspire youngerpeople, inspire woman, inspire
anybody that's going through ahard thing, and so it almost
serves as motivation.
When I share things like, it'slike okay, someone's going to

(29:27):
read this and be impacted by it,hopefully in a positive way,
and feel understood and feellike they're not the only person
going through this.
So I think when I share thingson Instagram, like, it makes me
feel more connected.
But there are moments whereit's like I had a really bad
race.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I don't necessarily want like I shouldn't have to
explain it to anyone.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
I don't owe it to anyone, but at the same time, I
don't want to be the person thathas a bad race and can only
talk about good things onInstagram.
So it does.
There is a little bit of apressure, but it it doesn't feel
like a hard balance for me.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
I like that.
It's interesting because I seea lot of people struggle with it
, so it's cool to see someoneactually, for once, give me an
answer.
That's like I like it.
It's not that hard for me.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, that's cool, I would say.
I don't have a million trolls,though, so I think it would be
harder if I had people in mymessages all the time telling me
that I'm a terrible person.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh, my gosh that would be complicated, but that's
not my experience.
Do you what I?
My experience.
Do you find as like your likeplatform is elevated in the
sport you've gotten a lot offollowers like?
Do you find it like, especiallyin boulder?

Speaker 3 (30:31):
like are you constantly saying hi to people
on the trails?
Like is that a little weird.
Like people recognize my dogbefore they recognize me that is
the bizarre thing, like howmany people know my dog and I
couldn't tell you who the personis.
Yeah, um, so I guess they'resaying hi to me indirectly
through him, but it doesn't itdoesn't weird me out too much.
I I think if you told me thatthat would be happening 10 years

(30:51):
ago, I'd be like you'reabsolutely nuts, that's.
I'm retired, actually.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
But um, yeah, it's, it's kind of fun in boulder yeah
, well, even like, if you're inlike overseas, like in europe,
like do the euros go a littlecrazy?
Like when they see like theamericans, like when, like hey,
can I get a photo with you Atevents.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yes, I would say it's nice when you're, when you
choose the right people to bearound, though, because if
you're walking around with, like, jim or Courtney- to Walter.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
It's like yeah, I don't care about me.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
So you just got to choose your company wisely.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
OK, ok, that's super cool.
I want to talk to you about therut, so you're back to back to
back to back champion at the rut, 28k, something like that, yeah
, I've done it four times and Iwon it three times yeah.
So nick just raced it last yearand he told me it was like one
of the most technical courses,if not the most right most
technical questions what is itthat you have figured?
Well, I have two questions forthis, so you can.

(31:46):
We'll go with the first onefirst.
What is it have you figured outabout?
Like to continue to dominatethat race?

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Oh my gosh, I love that race so much it is.
Yes, I would agree that it'sone of the most technical races
in the US.
What have I figured out?
I think a lot of it has comewith developing athletic
maturity.
Part of it, because I think thefirst two times I ran it I

(32:12):
absolutely exploded by the endand was just hanging on for dear
life and was kind of lucky thatI had created this gap in the
field.
But, um, so part of it is that.
And then the other part is likefueling, hydrating, and these
aren't even related to thetechnical components of the
course.
But I think a lot of the reasonthat the rut has only gone
faster for me is because Ilearned how to fuel in races and

(32:35):
actually, um, like, still haveenergy at the end and still be
able to run, because it finisheswith like a thousand foot climb
and descent, so you kind of youhave to stay alive for that,
yeah, and that's after like this, like 6 000 foot climb or
something I don't know the exactnumbers, but it's, it's big
going to lone peak and comingoff the back side.

(32:56):
But, um, I'm not entirely sure.
Like, I think the thetechnicality is just perfect for
me.
I think it's so similar to whatI'm used to navigating that it
feels, I mean, it's like runningon broken dinner plates, so
it's a little weird butsomething about that, and I

(33:16):
don't know what that says aboutme as a person, but something
about that is just so fun.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Suffering right.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, and I think I don't know, there's a lot like a
lot of women get rattled by, alot of people get rattled by it,
and it doesn't really phase mevery much.
So I think that that's a bigpiece to.
It is like, and then just themore times you run a course and
it's the same course every year,the better you get, although I

(33:42):
would say that the downhill, thefirst three times I ran it it
was the same exact time to thesecond, every single year until
this year.
I broke the spell this year.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, Wow.
So I had Denali on the podcastand she I think she shared the
podium with you.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
She was fourth third.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yes, and so, and like , she's proper Alaskan mountain
runner, like Mount.
Marathon and like she's properalaskan mountain runner, like
mount marathon and like she said, like that it's on another
level that type of race.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
so I gotta get out there to go, go play.
You really need to, especiallygiven the name of your podcast.
It's the steepest, mostconsistent race I've done in the
us.
I hear I think the only otherone that I hear things about is
tmr.
Yeah, um, but I really thinkthat it's I hands down.
I think it's the best us racemike foot.

(34:29):
That's pretty cool yeah he's gotan amazing event.
They have an amazing staff, thecommunity.
There is kind of what keepsbringing me back, like every
year.
It's not on my schedule in thebeginning of the year.
Every year I show up, so it'smight happen again this year.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
We'll see okay yeah, so last year was a big year
because, like jennner, who'slike one of the best, if not
probably the best, 50k femaleathlete, like mountain athlete
in the country, came and, likeyou guys, like it was a highly
anticipated matchup, and youbeat her.
Were you thinking about thatgoing into the race or did you
just want to win?

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I mean I always, like I'm human, I think about the
people I'm racing, I'mintimidated that's a natural
part of the sport.
But I kind of thought it was agood course to be able to
compete with her, because I knowI'm a better downhill runner.
But I also in my head feel likeshe could out-climb me, but not

(35:23):
by that much.
So I'm like this could be areally good matchup, like it's.
It's fun when you're actuallycompeting with someone back and
forth and um, that's kind of I.
That was kind of the experiencefor the first maybe 90 minutes
or so it was.
I mean, I was leading, but shewas like there.
And then we went down the firsttechnical descent and I kind of

(35:44):
lost her and then, like, sawher coming back and it was this
fun game of cat and mouse andshe did end up taking a wrong
turn, but apparently, like itjust kind of ended up in the
same spot, same spot.

(36:08):
So I don't know if she losttime or whatever happened, but,
um, I ran, like it wasterrifying to feel like she was
behind me.
Yeah, I feel like, yeah, likethat would be really difficult,
yeah, but I told myself, if Igot to the top first, I'd be
fine.
Okay, and that's what theexperience was.
So it was very fun nice.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, I mean, like we you know we did a race preview
on it it was really fun topreview that one just because,
like two heavyweights in a lotof ways like some of the best
like you have a sub ultra goldentrail series athlete that you
know is used to these goldentrail series races, and then you
have Jennifer, who is more ofthe 50 K distance, so it was
kind of cool to see that matchup in between.
It's fun.
Um, I want to take it back toNew York.

(36:41):
The first time you qualifiedfor world's team was at
breakneck.
What was that like for you?
Cause it's like a homecoming.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, it was really fun.
I mean, it's not.
I had actually never been tothat area of New York, so it was
really cool to see the terrainthere.
Breakneck is another reallycool race the.
The climbs aren't necessarilylong, but everything is so
punchy and there is technicality.
There's even a little bit ofscrambling in that race.

(37:12):
I had a lot of fun there, um,it was.
It was cool because some peoplethat don't usually get to see
this world got to come outfamily-wise, because we still
have a lot of extended familyout there and my sister's
wedding shower was that sameweekend so it was cool to be
able to like be around familyand do this big thing and
qualify for another world's team.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
One of the things I wanted to get into was you
qualified to go race atInnsbruck for the short course
right?
It was like the short coursemarathon distance right.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
It was yeah long, so that was a really probably a
very tough race for you.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
You didn't finish Like how, what happened, Like
what, what went down?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
That was, yeah, yeah, my first and only dnf um, but
it wasn't just you like britneycharbonneau, like a lot of
ladies, had a tough race.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah there's a, there's a little bit of a
backstory.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Uh, let's hear it.
Yeah it drama, but I had.
So I got sick in January thisis like way before worlds was in
June.
I got sick in January and thenhad about nine months of like
really weird long viral umsymptoms and it was super
concerning.

(38:13):
Like I shouldn't have beenracing is what I'm saying?
Like I really shouldn't havebeen at worlds but I made the
team.
And that's one of thosedecisions that I'm like Hmm, I
think mature athlete me rightnow would have been like I can't
race worlds, like this isn't agood decision.
Um, I really like I couldhardly run easy runs without my
quad shutting off and like myheart rate was like 200.

(38:36):
So it was really not a smartdecision to show up and that's
just full honesty.
Um, and the first so like therewas like a little climb, little
descent, and then this likegiant climb and I did the little
climb, little descent and wasjust feeling I mean I wasn't in
the worst place, but I wasfeeling terrible and just
feeling like there's no way I'mgoing to be able to do the rest

(38:59):
of this race.
But I kept going for like 14miles and because I knew there
was a chairlift.
So I was like I'll just run tothe top of the lift see what
happens.
And, um, it just madeabsolutely no sense.
I was like stumbling around allover the place and I knew that,
you know, if I finished, mybody would be destroyed, my mind
would be destroyed either wayand, like, that's not the

(39:22):
world's experience I wanted andit wouldn't have been either way
.
So I made a decision in themoment for my body and it still
took until, like, the rut was mynext my really only like.
My next race after June, um wasthe rotten September.
Um, because it just took.
I ended up having to takeactual time away from running

(39:44):
instead of trying to trainthrough this weird thing that I
was experiencing.
Um, so that's, that was myworld experience, which is so
unfortunate, and the course isstill like.
I still want to do that course.
It definitely speaks to me, butit was a really tough day.
I know a few other people hadreally tough days as well.
I'm hoping for a moresuccessful world adventure.

(40:10):
Should I make the team thisyear?

Speaker 1 (40:14):
I know we talked a little bit about the potential
of Broken Arrow.
You do want to go back.
That would be the idea.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
That is yeah, so I have.
I have very simple objectivesthis year and they are like a
little bit longer than what Iusually do, but OCC and worlds
are like my only two goals forthe entire year and with that
you have to qualify for a world.
So that's where broken arrow46k comes in um.
So right now it's you know,full send to get back on the

(40:45):
world's team.
Um, I made the classic teamback in 2021, but they canceled
the world's that year and thenthe innsbruck team obviously
didn't.
The race was just like one ofthe worst experiences of my life
and um.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I am ready.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, I am ready to go back and it's another course.
It's in the Pyrenees, it'ssuper steep, like I.
I think it's a course that fitsme really well, so I'm hoping
to get myself back there.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
So with Broken.
Obviously that's short coursefor the marathon.
You've had some success atBroken Arrow, but it's been a
couple of years since you'vebeen back, so are you excited,
like if you do go back, youexcited to go?

Speaker 4 (41:27):
back.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, I'm excited to go back.
I've only ever done the 23Kthere and it was.
It was fun.
I was, I would say I was likelike it was a time of the season
that I was like oh my gosh, mylegs are about to fall off.
And racing at altitude is hard,but I really like it there.
It's a good mix of everything.
It's got some solid downhill,it's got some really runnable

(41:50):
parts and I'm going to do twolaps this year.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's always funny, I feel like with Broken Arrow,
unless you're David Sinclair orMichelino Sincere.
Whoever's leading the first lapis usually not leading the
second lap.
Yeah, it's so funny becauseyou've got that one downhill off
the ski lift that you'rerunning like probably
four-something pace for somepeople Like it's so fast?

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, and that can.
If you're not used to runningreally fast downhill, that will
obliterate you, and then thesecond lap is like a death march
.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
so hoping to avoid that, but yeah, yeah do you
think like at some point in time, you'll mix it up with like
some shorter stuff, like anycirc series, races or anything
like that, or vks?

Speaker 3 (42:31):
I'd love to do circ series.
It always falls in the timethat I'm competing in europe, so
I still want to get to one.
Um, um.
I feel bad because I'm alwayslike, yes, I'll do this.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Just kidding.
No, I won't.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
They're so fun, yeah, so fun looking Um.
So, cirque is definitelysomething I'm interested in.
Vks I, I re, I mean I reallylove like pure uphill FKTs, so I
think the idea of a vk soundscool.
Um, I kind of want to try itall.
I also am intrigued by longerthings.
So it's, you know, I I'd liketo just be able to do well at

(43:07):
all of it and so, yes, I would.
I would love to jump in thoseum things in the.
The vk especially is like suchan easy thing to, yeah, to jump
into.
So maybe, maybe this year I'lljust find someone when I'm in
Europe and just rip the bandaidoff.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Like the Mont Blanc, one looks sick.
Yeah, I don't think that it'sfive o'clock at night, though
it's like weird.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
I know that's the thing is that they're always the
day before a race and I reallyI don't love to sell my soul at
5 pm the day before 50k.
That's really challenging.
I've done an.
I did a VK in Austria and thatwas super fun.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So I do hope to do it again, maybe as an isolated
thing.
What about sub-ultra?
Do you like that like keeps youin the sport Because you're
like I know you were on the starlist for canyons 50k, maybe a
little 50k, curious, but likesub-ultra is like your, your
kind of, your jam.
What do?

Speaker 3 (44:02):
you like so much about it.
I like to run fast, and notthat ultra runners aren't
running fast, but like there's alot of, um, very bare bones.
Like you can just go run ashard as you almost as hard as
you can, for, like you know,three ish and there's not as
many.
Like I don't have to thinkabout a shoe change, I don't

(44:23):
have to think about, like, whathappens if my feet get wet.
I don't care, I'm just going tokeep running.
It's not 14 hours, so thingsdon't compound.
So right now it's kind of funjust to like.
It's almost like pure fitness,versus having to like, plan out
every single piece and thenthings that aren't even in your
control happen anyway and ruinyour race.

(44:44):
So it's kind of fun to justhave just a bare bones sport, um
, and I would say, yeah, I haveenjoyed the 50ks I've done and.
But there I would say I can seewhy alters are so different,
because there's a lot morevariables at play yeah, it
doesn't like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I feel like all that like the science experiment I'm
trying to figure out nutritionand just nailing that.
Like there's just so much to itthat I'm like I just want to go
smash myself against a mountainand see how fast I can get up
and get down, and it's like it'sjust very primal.
It's a very easy thing to do.
You're not really thinking,you're just racing yeah, on the,
on.
The topic of racing.
What is your relationship likewith competition?
Are you like an insanelycompetitive human or like what

(45:23):
are you like?

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Um, I would say I love competition, like I really
I think it's fun to be able tocompete against the best of the
best, and but I'm not drivenonly by competition.
Like, if you told me that I'mnever allowed to race again but
I can train as much as I wantand I can do FKTs and push

(45:47):
myself to the max, I'd be, I'dprobably be fine, like I'd be
happy with that.
But I do enjoy the competition.
Like it is fun in the moment,uh, but it's not the only reason
that I do this sport and Ithink, like being competitive
with myself is sometimes just asfun.
But as far as a how I am as acompetitor, I like to run scared

(46:07):
, so I'd rather have someonechasing me than have someone
like next to me the entire time.
I really like to run like I'mbeing chased well, it brings out
the best in you.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
yeah, you can get the most out of yourself.
I don't know.
It's something like weird aboutthe sport where it's like when
you're smashing yourselfentirely and there's like with
other people in competition,like you almost build this like
weird camaraderie, like well,you know those people will be
friends for life because youjust destroyed yourself together
.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, yeah, you go to a special place with those
people, that's right people,yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
interesting, it's great sport onearth yeah, oh, I agree, and I
think it's fun because there'sso many room, there's so many
places to grow like this yearI'm racing much more 50k length
races and we'll see how thatgoes, but I think it's just.
It's fun to be able to explorethese things.

(46:53):
But the other things are stillthere in your skill set, like
you.
Look at someone like killian hecan do a hundred miler but then
he can go wins years and all,and so it's just fun to be able
to like that's.
My ultimate goal is to be ableto be like a jack of all trades
on that topic, like who inspiresyou in the sport?

(47:15):
I?
That's a great question.
I'm inspired by so many peoplein this sport.
I think there's so many womendoing awesome things and also, I
mean also men.
Um, a lot of my I mean a lot ofmy friends inspire me.
I think I'm trying to thinklike off the top of my head Abby
Hall is a huge inspiration Justseeing her come back from

(47:38):
injury and be really honest andvocal about things and also
train really hard and be honestabout that, and that's that's
really fun.
Um, Danny Moreno super strongathlete.
I think she's also somebody whohas just dominated in a bunch
of different areas but is alsovery like.
I really appreciate people thatare like open about their own

(48:01):
experiences and not just, youknow, like hiding things or
hiding behind.
Um, yeah, so those are twopeople, but I'm really I mean,
I'm just inspired by everyonethat's out there crushing it,
yeah, and especially the womenthat are like having babies and
then coming back and throwingdown, like that is so impressive

(48:23):
.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
I don't rachel drake.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Rachel drake is an absolute animal and a good
friend of mine, and so it's allof those people kind of just
paving the way for um thosebehind them, yeah, okay, what's
your uh walkout song before arace?
We listen to oh shoot, I justthought about this yesterday too

(48:45):
.
Um, I think right now, off thetop of my head, bring them out,
okay, you know that's a good one.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's I feel pumped.
Yeah, yeah, it's a good song,sweet.
Do you believe in aliens?
I don Do you believe in aliens?

Speaker 3 (48:58):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Do you believe in Bigfoot?
I don't.
It's a common question.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah, no, I'm convinced my dad does, but I
don't.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Well, I feel like Adirondacks.
Yeah, no he's definitely stillsearching somewhere.
Billy Quall's like thank you somuch for coming on.
The pod're gonna transition touh audience q a now and
appreciate it.
Thanks for the conversationthank you so much.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
It's great to be here absolutely all right, steven,
you had a question hello, um, so, coming from a track athlete to
switching to doing the trails,are you still training on the
track often, or are you onlytrying to do trails?
Or do you miss track enoughthat you find yourself like
trying to gravitate and stilltrain there Like do you need it

(49:41):
or like where's the balance inthat for what you're trying to
do with your goals?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Yeah, good question.
I would say the key.
I guess the key word in that isbalance.
Like for me, one depends onwhat race I'm training for,
depends on the time of year.
I do still do a lot of rawspeed work, I would say more so
on the roads than on the track,I think.
I think my I still have like amental thing with the track

(50:08):
sometimes where it's challengingto want to go sell my soul to
it.
But, um, but I do really hard,really fast, flat work a lot and
I think that lends itselfreally well to being able to
climb fast and just run fast ingeneral.
So it's definitely a big partof training, more so in the
winter when I'm training forsomething I like to be really

(50:30):
specific.
So if I'm training forsomething super steep like it
won't present itself as much,but it's still very much a piece
that I still like to go fast.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about like
the races that you describehave so much uphill and for so
many people like that's justpure suffering and suckage, but
you talk about these races inlike such a positive way.
I'm wondering if you can talkabout like how you view the sort
of suffering, or like the thechallenging parts of races and
running, and also if you haveany advice towards like looking

(51:22):
at them in a positive way orlike giving us advice to like I
don't know, yeah, like traindifferently in those like,
especially in Boulder, and likethe rut it's so steep and so
hard, but you seem to likegravitate towards that.
So it's not really a question,more of like a conversation
point.
Um, yeah, wondering if youcould talk towards that.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Yeah, of course.
So I agree, there is a lot ofsuffering involved and I I'm a
coach as well, and so I I havethese conversations with people
so often and it's you know, I Ido try to remove myself
sometimes because I know thatthis is a different experience
for everybody too Not everybody,and don't get me wrong, I am
not running up these Hills Likethis is so great, so easy, like

(52:09):
I'm having so much fun.
There are a lot of times whereI'm like I think I'll drop out
at the top, like I think that'swhat's going to happen.
Is that I'm actually going todrop out, like almost like 80%
of races.
I'm like if you just make it tohere, then you're allowed to
drop out, and usually I make itto that point and I'm like, oh,

(52:30):
this is so fun, I'm having somuch fun in like a really weird
type two way of fun.
But, um, I would say, andespecially the first trail run
that I did in Boulder, I waslike just running way too hard
uphill, did not.
It was a sufferfest, it wasterrible.
And so I think getting on hillsconsistently one that's very
important, but also slowing itdown when you're on those hills
to be able to be on the hill forlonger and get your body used

(52:56):
to moving uphill efficiently.
And then with time, the moreyou do that, the more you get on
that terrain, the easier it'llit'll feel and the faster you'll
get at it.
So that's one piece, that'skind of the training piece of
like slowly breaking yourselfinto doing specific vert for the
race that you're doing.
I would say you know, try to beas specific as you can so that

(53:19):
the race isn't this like novelthing.
And then, as far as thementality around when you're in
the race, for me it does go backto gratitude, like in those
moments that I'm like startingto fall towards the you know if
it's like a balance weight orwhatever I'm starting to fall
towards the side of likenegativity a little bit.

(53:39):
Then I do check in with myselfactively and I'm like you know
you're grateful to be here.
You are healthy, you are like.
I don't tell myself I'mgrateful, but I'm like I'm like
here's some reasons to begrateful.
Like you have a healthy body,you are like an absolute monster
, like you're a beast, like it'sall these mantras that I do
feel like they sound so sillysaying out loud right now like

(54:01):
you're a beast, but in themoment I'm like fully throwing
myself into that statement andI'm like believing it and and it
does make things go by faster.
And if it becomes this thingwhere, like none of that's
working, then usually I'm likeokay, I'm just gonna look at the
shape of these rocks and I'mgonna like that rock looks like

(54:21):
a heart.
I have no heart.
Like it's like all these randomthings that just like you'll
make yourself laugh, if nothingelse, and I think that there's a
little bit of a distractionelement, but, um, for the most
part it does go back togratitude and like working on
that side of me and like the themental aspect of like just
keeping myself grounded in themoment cool so cool.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Thank you, so on a previous podcast with james, he
had discussed the separation ofmen's and women's races into two
different days.
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, that's a pretty new thing, I would say.
In Golden Trail in particular,I actually have not started that
many races as only a femalerace.
I personally like havingeveryone on the start line,
which is a very controversial.
It's a very controversial topicbecause I know that a lot of

(55:23):
there's there are a lot ofpeople that I think that the
start line could be like alittle bit balanced and it works
out really well.
I've had this conversation witha lot of people.
But but for the people at thefront of, I don't want to be
leading the race outright.
I like to be able to chase and Ithink the reality with some
trail races is that I end up inno man's land a lot and in a lot

(55:45):
of these races it ends up beinglike me and a male, or like me
and two males, or me, anotherfemale and two males, and it
just it provides a little moredensity, which I like.
I like to be able to not feellike I'm just like alone in the
forest in a race, because itjust makes it a little harder to
gauge the effort.

(56:06):
So I personally do like racingtogether, but I would say there
are some European races inparticular, like Sears and all.
I would probably enjoy thatrace more if the start line was
not being like a human sardine,like it is so insane and like it

(56:26):
smells terrible and everybodygoes out at like 440 pace.
So you're kind of pushed alongwith like this group of
professional road athletes andthat's a little terrifying.
But other than that I thinklike I do find a nice balance
with having like a group of mengo ahead and then like a chase

(56:47):
group of women, and it's kind offun to feel like the whole
community is together.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
So race dependent.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Race dependent.
Yeah, that's my like longwinded way of saying sort of
yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Especially now you mentioned that you are a coach.
What is one thing that 2025Bailey would tell 2019 Bailey
when she's first?

Speaker 3 (57:10):
getting into trails?
That's a great question, I mean.
I think one obvious thing is toslow the heck down.
I tried to run everything likea roadrunner and run everything
at a certain pace.
Pace does not matter whenyou're running up a 20% grade,
it doesn't mean anything andactually like honing in on

(57:32):
knowing what it feels like to gohard versus to go easy, and
having that in your skillsetwill help you intuitively in a
race to be able to know likeyou're different.
I think of it all as like adial and it's like I now know
the different, like little knobson my dial versus before.
It was just like always at thesame spot and I don't feel like
I was actually like learninganything.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
So yeah, I would say slow down will you come back at
any point in time to do like theentire golden trail series, or
you think you're done?

Speaker 3 (58:08):
I'm definitely not done.
I have so much more work to dothere and I wanted to do it last
year, but one of the races thatI had done well, I had two like
really bad races, but then oneof the races that I showed up to
was canceled 10k in, so then itdidn't count towards one of the
golden curve races and it madeit a logistical nightmare.
Um, but I do hope to do itagain and I think, um, I'm just

(58:33):
also trying to explore otherthings.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Process, yeah, it's just interesting to me because I
see a lot of people that likewill do it for like three or
four years and then likedisappear like eli and taber,
like that's the thing, like theykind of graduated into like
longer stuff and like they don'tgo back to it.
So it's just interesting to seedifferent people's how they
kind of change their perspectiveon it I would like to go back
to it.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
I I also have just had my eyes on occCC for so long
that I'm like I'm ready and OCCand worlds is like to me, a
very realistic, reasonable,double so.
But it's also like being thesmart part of me is like you
can't.
Some people will try to dogolden trail and OCC and worlds

(59:16):
and I'm not that person.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Beats you up anybody else, so you think you mentioned
you're dealing with an injury.
How do you deal with injuriesand setbacks from a mental
standpoint?

Speaker 3 (59:31):
yeah, it's taken me a really long time to get to a
place where I could like beinjured and not feel like it's a
weakness and and I think I'velearned a lot through that
process like being able to oneown up to it and be like
everybody gets injured like thatthat happens.
But, um, for me it's, it's justabout like I mean, I use a lot

(59:56):
of like the things that I thisis kind of odd, but I use a lot
of like the things that I thisis kind of odd, but I use a lot
of the things that I learn intherapy.
When I'm injured, it's like,okay, I need to like think about
this thought I had and why itmay or may not be rational, like
, oh, like there's a lot ofimposter syndrome that happens
with injury and I feel like I'mlike I don't deserve this
sponsorship.
I don't deserve like Ishouldn't.
Even I don't even know why Icall myself a professional

(01:00:19):
runner.
And it's like whoa, take a stepback.
Like you have all of the datain your favor to call yourself
whatever.
And it's also like it's just aseason, like it's just not a
season of running, it's just aseason of life, like it's just
part of the process and like forme, I have actual proof that,
like I have come back frominjuries way stronger.

(01:00:39):
For me, I have actual proofthat, like I have come back from
injuries way stronger.
So I'm like you know, thismight just be like letting me
not get too fit too early in theyear.
So like trying to trust theprocess and like also connect
with people around me, like dothings that I enjoy that maybe
aren't related to running, um,and also not scroll on Strava.
That's been really that's justa piece of the process.

(01:01:01):
Is like not getting caught upin, like well, I'm racing this
person and they're running 100miles a week and I'm running
nothing, so I suck.
It's like okay, we're justgoing to step back and realize
that like everybody's path tosuccess is looking a little bit
different a little bit different.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
How do you, as a professional in the sport and
like one of the biggest namewomen on the sub ultra side,
like, how do you view yourcareer?
Like, do you look at it as likeone day I'm just going to
retire from this and dosomething different?
Or like, like what do you?
How do you like, are yourunning always be a piece of
your life?
Like, how do you like view itfrom a career perspective?

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Yeah, well, for starters, I think my career is
like just getting started, whichis fun.
Um and that's like to speak toyour inspiration question
earlier Like I am so inspired bythe people that are thriving,
you know, to whatever age, likethere's not even a number, I'll
put on it right now, but, um, Ido think, like, as I, it's hard

(01:02:06):
for me to imagine not competing,honestly, because I still love
it so much that I don't see anend point.
But but, should that end pointcome, mentally or physically?
When it comes, I think like Ican see myself just still being
so involved in the sport andlike wanting to make a
difference and and feeling likeI can naturally transition to

(01:02:28):
that part of myself and and notthe ultra competitive side
anymore, and I in my head itfeels like it could be really
smooth and natural.
So I'm going to roll with that,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
I like that answer.
I see a lot of folks like Anton, for instance, going in house
at Sportiva, david Laney goingin house at craft.
Do you do you think that wouldbe something like you'd be
interested in If?

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Nike gives me a job.
That'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
She'll be out, but yeah well, yeah well, I we
didn't talk about this, but myoriginal plan with life was to
go to medical school.
So there is a piece of methat's still really obsessed
with human physiology andworking with people directly on
that, and so there there is likea lot of curiosity and how I
could blend that with running aswell, whether that's running

(01:03:23):
female athlete-based research.
So there's a lot of thingscooking in my brain and I don't
necessarily know what that lookslike, but I know that running
is a piece of that, and as longas I still love this sport, I
will still be here, cool.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Anybody else?
Rose, you got anything?
No, joey, stephen, brad,anybody, ace, hi there, all
right.
Well, bailey, thank you so muchfor coming.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
The dogs are like they'retapping for us.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
I'm sorry about the floor, guys.
It's covered in dog hair.
Awesome, yay, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, guys.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
Like I said, want to thankeverybody from the bottom of my
heart for coming out to the livepod.
You can also tune in and catchthis guys on video on YouTube.
It's going to go up on ourYouTube shortly and it is

(01:04:22):
already up on the ColoradoRunning Company YouTube channel.
You can find them at ColoradoRunning Company.
Before you guys get going, do mea favor let's get Bailey some
more followers.
You can give her a follow atBailey B-A-I-L-E-Y Kowalczyk.
That's K-O-W-A-L-C-Z-Y-K.
Give her a follow.
Send her some messages, someencouraging messages.
Let her know what you guysthought about the episode.

(01:04:42):
I'm sure she'd love to hearfrom you.
Yeah, that was awesome.
Really want to personally thankBailey from the bottom of my
heart for coming out.
I know those podcasts can be alittle bit intimidating when
it's in front of a live audience, so it was just super fun to be
able to get to do these, justchat with the crowd and have
people here so many people.

(01:05:05):
I want to shout out and justgive a giant thank you all, all
my friends and family for comingout.
I want to give a big shout outto Colorado Running Company.
Thank you guys so much forbeing able to host this event.
Ron, ace, benjamin and companyeverybody so much, just like
thank you for giving us so muchlove and putting this on.
Ron is just such a visionary atCRC and just being able to do
this it was just so cool.

(01:05:25):
So hopefully this is the firstof many of these fun little
events that we'll be able to do.
And, ace, your video productionis just so amazing the way
we're able to do everything.
And Benjamin, thanks for beingsupport and leading the group
run and just being a huge help.
So thank you guys so much.
I want to thank my wife forbeing massively supportive and
just like helping througheverything and just, you know,

(01:05:47):
helping get the day, get methrough the day, and just
getting everything done.
It was so much fun having ourdogs there and just, yeah, just
doing our thing and yeah, Ireally appreciate that.
Like I said, so many friendsand family.
To thank All my friends.
You guys know how much I loveand appreciate you and just
thank you for supporting thepodcast and just listeners as
well and new friends, people Igot to meet at the pod Guys I

(01:06:10):
love you so much, thank you.
It just means the world to me,so really excited for what we
have in SOAR for year two.
We've got a lot of really funthings coming down the pipeline
that I can't wait to announce.
Also want to thank some folksfrom some different brands EMI
and company and everybody thatcame out from Ultimate Direction
to support and have thescratcheritas and just provide a
bunch of product and giveawaysand do all that.

(01:06:31):
That was amazing.
Cetus USA thank you guys, aswell as Nike Trail Thanks for
doing the shoe demos and C see,just thank you for giving us
socks to give away.
Um aiden at cedis, like, thankyou so much.
So, yeah, so so much good stuff, so much love to go around.
I could sit here for 20 minutesand just name names and just
thank everyone, but I don't wantto do that, uh, because you

(01:06:53):
know out of the, you know I wantto be mindful of your guys's
time.
So thanks guys so much, reallyappreciate it and I can't wait
for next year.
Thank you.

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#83 - Bailey Kowalczyk & The Steep Stuff Podcast 1 year Celebration Party

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#83 - Bailey Kowalczyk & The Steep Stuff Podcast 1 year Celebration Party