#84 - Josh Eberly

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Meet the architect behind American trail running's most influential collegiate program. Josh Eberly, head coach of Western Colorado University's trail running team, has created something truly unique in the running world: the only dedicated collegiate trail running program in the United States.

What began as a small experiment has evolved into a powerhouse that's reshaping how young runners transition from high school competition to mountain athletics. Through his decade of leadership, Eberly has mentored some of the biggest names in American trail running—Cole Campbell, Kieran Nay, Brian Whitfield, and others who've gone on to professional careers with teams like Adidas Terrex.

But what makes Western's program special isn't just its elite output. Eberly has created an inclusive environment where athletes of all abilities can thrive, united by their love of mountains and trails rather than strictly performance metrics. "It's not all about creating the next professional," he explains. "We have athletes with different goals and ambitions. They love the work ethic, they love the trails, they love the mountains."

The program blends structured training with adventure, taking athletes to iconic locations like the Grand Canyon, Leadville's 14ers, and the San Juan Mountains. These experiences reinforce why many chose trail running over traditional track programs—connection with nature and the joy of exploration. With support from Adidas Terrex providing gear and opportunities, Western's athletes can focus on developing as both runners and humans.

As trail running grows in popularity, Western's unique model raises fascinating questions about the future of collegiate athletics. Could we see more universities developing similar programs? For now, Eberly continues refining his vision, balancing his own competitive career while guiding the next generation of mountain athletes in the high-altitude playground of Gunnison, Colorado.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and today I'm so excited to
bring you guys an episode withnone other than Mr Josh Eberle.
Josh is probably best known forboth being a professional
athlete for DS Terex and racingat an extremely high level, as
well as being the head coach forthe Western Colorado University

(00:20):
trail running team.
In this episode we dove prettydeep into both some goals that
Josh has left for his career,that he wants to accomplish,
races that he loves to do, aswell as what it's like being a
mentor, a coach, and just likewhat he does in his role at
Western, which has just been soimpactful and powerful for the
trail running community over thespan of the last, say like five

(00:40):
to seven years, if not longer.
You know Josh, like I said, asa mentor.
You know he's probablyresponsible for mentoring some
of the biggest names in oursport, a lot of household names
you guys might know.
You know Cole Campbell, jess,jess, from small.
You know folks like here inneighbor on Whitfield.
A lot of people have gonethrough Western, both at the
cross country level as well asthe trail running level.

(01:02):
Josh also really is candid andputs on, you know, just a really
good conversation about how toget on the team, what it's like
training the team workouts, whatit's for.
You know it's not just allabout professional athletics and
trying to build these kids intopros.
There's a lot more to it, youknow there's it's very diverse.
It's a group of people thatjust love being outside and love

(01:25):
training and enjoy the trails.
So it's something really cooland really special.
And you know he kind of putshis finger on exactly what makes
these athletes just so.
You know so good and you knowit's pretty cool.
So, without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
It's a personal favorite ofmine.
Really want to thank Josh forcoming on the podcast and I
can't wait for moreconversations down the line.

(01:57):
It's time, ladies and gentlemen,we are live.

(02:51):
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think.
Josh Eberle, welcome to thesteep stuff podcast.
How are you man?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Doing great.
Yeah, no complaints.
Here the the sun is shining and, uh yeah, great air to breathe
in up here in Gunnison.
So we're we're at a highelevation of almost 8,000 feet,
so it's a it's pretty magical uphere.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah Cold.
You guys get like the coldestwinters.
It's like brutal up there,isn't it?

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, it is cold but, like you know, right, right,
geographically we are in avalley and it sucks down you all
the cold air, so we'rebasically the coldest place in
the nation, like every year.
But but but the cool thing isit's it's it's relative right,
because you're in coloradosprings too, and I think a lot

(04:41):
of Colorado natives they go toother places, like I lived in
Michigan for three years andlike they had great summers but
the sun wasn't, as you know,relevant as what we have here.
You know, there's a lot offoggy days and cloudy days out
there and uh, and at least in inColorado, if it's zero degrees

(05:05):
or in the negatives, we usuallyhave the sun and that makes such
a huge difference for forgetting out there, right, for
tolerance and and um and and youknow, moving the body.
As for running wise, it's likeyou bundle up, you have the
right, right layers and within10 minutes you, uh, you warm up
pretty good.
So it's it's, you get used toit quick.

(05:28):
The temperatures that peopleread like I get recruiting calls
from athletes and they're,they're looking at the
temperature and they're you knowhow is it.
It's so cold there and you knowwhen they get there.
When they get here, it's, it's,uh, it's, it's not too bad.
They get, they get used to itand we got the sunshine.
That makes a huge differencefor Colorado.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's funny.
I follow Kieran on Instagramand he's always pretty good
about putting up uh like storiesabout some of his training and
stuff like that and dude, likesome of the some of the stories
he puts up, especially in winterit just looks so brutal and so
cold.
I was like, ooh, uh, but yeah,it's funny.
Uh yo, what part of Michigandid you live in?
I lived in Ann Arbor for like ayear and a half.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, I was on the other side.
I was, uh, I was with Hanson'sover at Rochester Hills areas
for, uh, for three years, sofrom 2004 to 2007,.
That's when I was on the, theHanson's ODP program.
So, yeah, a while ago.
But yeah, michigan, michiganwas great.

(06:27):
They had, you know, those railsfor trails were amazing.
What a great thing to innovatewith the old trail system.
So we ran on those all the time, a lot of the dirt roads and,
yeah, met a lot of great peopleand it was really fun.
We need to go back to Michiganagain to see all my friends and

(06:49):
and, uh, people we met, so yeah,it's a great state.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
I mean, like you said , the the winter's a little
brutal there too, just becauseyou don't see the sun for like
three months, but other thanthat it's it's pretty dope.
It's a fun good.
You know, a lot of outdoor,like it kind of surprised me.
A lot of outdoorsy people,Great craft beer culture.
I would say their craft beerculture is way better than
Colorado.
I'm just putting that one outthere.
But yeah, it's interesting.
It's a cool spot, Definitelyenjoyed, especially Ann Arbor.

(07:15):
Ann Arbor is a cool place.
Why were you out there realquick?
So at first I moved out thereto start for grad school.
I was trying to get my MBA fromthe University of Michigan and
then what do you call it?
I did my MBA internship at aplastics company in corporate
finance out there.
It was pretty square, prettyboring, but it was fun.

(07:38):
I just like being out there.
I had a couple To this day someof my best friends still live
out there and it's a fun town.
It's a good spot, Cool, yeah,yeah, man.
So I don't want to bury thelead too much.
I've been really excited tohave a conversation with you.
When I conceptualize thispodcast from a sub-ultra and
from a trail running perspective, you're one of the key people.

(07:58):
I think that really should be aguest on this type of podcast,
just because of not just whatyou do professionally as an
athlete, but also what you doprofessionally for your day job
in managing the trail team atWestern.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat your role is and
specifically what you do, andthen we can kind of go from
there?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, well, first, yeah, thanks for having me on.
I listen to a lot of your pods.
I think you're happy.
One year anniversary too.
Oh, thanks, man.
That's great, great testamentto still be here in this digital
era, this digital space.
So well done, keep doing whatyou're doing.
It's awesome.
I went back and I listened to somany of your episodes and, uh,

(08:42):
obviously the new ones that popup, but it's it's, it's good,
good perspective on some of theathletes I haven't really had a
chance to really listen to andget the vibe from, and, and it
was great, but I appreciate that, yeah, anyways, back to your
question is basically what youknow, my role at Western right
You're talking about Basically,my role at Western right You're

(09:03):
talking about.
Is that correct?
Yeah, yeah, and so you knowthis is my 10th year going on,
11 years as the head coach ofthe trail running program and
the actual mountain sportsprogram has probably been maybe
13 years, uh, from inception and, and so they created this

(09:28):
mountain sports program toreally fulfill, right, these
extreme sports like mountainbiking and and skiing and then
rock climbing and skimo and freeride right, and so you know
that was sort of the sort ofinception of the idea of behind

(09:51):
the mountain sports is trying to, because back then we used to
actually have an NCAA Division Iski program and then, you know,
we lost some funding and thenwe went back to NCAA Division I
and then we lost funding again.
So we were going back and forth.
And then Dave Weins he had thisgreat idea why don't we just

(10:14):
integrate a mountain sportsprogram at Western?
And we'll have such a good drawright because of where we live,
we have the mountains righthere.
Good draw right because ofwhere we live, we have the
mountains right here.
We can't compete with someonelike fort lewis or durango where
they have the the trails openyear round.
But, um, but we, you know thewhole idea is behind.
It was really to have anathlete come in, hit the dirt

(10:37):
when the dirt is available andthen transition to skis and do
the winter sports if thatfulfills them.
Um, so having that year roundaccess to being a high end
athlete, endurance athlete or ora ski athlete as well, uh,
having sort of that nine monthcycle, uh, instead of just right

(10:58):
three months or four months inthe fall, um, can't really do a
ton with that.
So, yeah, I used to coach NCAAfor four years before this.
So I helped out.
When I got back from Michigan, Ihung out for a little bit and
then I went over to the NCAA andI helped the coach there with a

(11:19):
couple other assistants and wedid that for four years and then
just figured, um, I wasn't thatgood as an assistant coach and
and sort of stopped.
And um, sure enough, like amonth later I was running,
running, you know, down ourtrails and I ran into an old
buddy, uh, duncan Callahan, andhe stopped me and he was the

(11:42):
director of mountain sports atthe time, and he and he stops me
, and he was the director ofmountain sports at the time, and
he and he stops me and he goeshey, uh, we're looking for a
trail running coach.
Uh, you are you interested?
And I'm, I'm like I shrug itoff and I laugh, I'm like, no,
not, not at all.
So I keep running.
And like a couple days later Iran by his house again and he
stops me in the yard and he says, hey, hey, Josh, hey, can I get

(12:06):
, can I get 10 minutes with you?
You know, just let me, let metalk 10 minutes with you
tomorrow and and we'll explainsome stuff and, and I showed up
and had sort of a littlediscussion about what they're
looking for and and really saidto myself, yeah, why not looking

(12:26):
for?
And?
And really said to myself, yeah, why not, why not challenge
myself at trying to, you know,build something and and actually
have it be my own right?
And that was a big thing.
I wanted to sort of createsomething and it would be a part
of something.
And, um, and one thing led toanother.
That was the first year that wehad a organized trail team and
then we sort of took off fromthere.
And now here we are 10 years,almost 11 years later, and we

(12:51):
got, you know, athletes comingin.
I had my first internationalathlete come in last year in the
fall and he was NCAA Division Iathlete and he just sort of got
fried from the system at theNCAA.
Um, um, you know, um gives themand and he wanted to run the
trails and so, uh, transferredover to Western and and now just

(13:15):
uh, last week I had a kid fromIceland, uh, call me up and is
really interested in our program.
So it's pretty cool from youknow, I I always look at and I
always tell athletes, you know,don't forget where you came from
, right, I think that'simportant.
And so we started from scratch.
A lot of athletes, like youknow, josh and Gordon, brian

(13:38):
those guys sort of laid thefoundation and the framework for
what we are sort of today,which is pretty cool.
And then, of course, you know,with Adidas, turek's stepping in
, that's a huge, huge part ofour success.
You know, when you know Adidas,they really want to invest in

(14:00):
that future athlete, in thatnext-gen athlete.
We're seeing really goodreturns on that, you know.
So the athlete can really justshow up and not worry about
anything but training andacademics and and that's right,
that's, that's a huge win-win.
You know, my, my norwegianathlete came last year and you

(14:24):
travel internationally, youtravel, you travel right, you
travel small, so he didn't bringa lot of stuff.
And so he showed up and likethe first day he calls me up and
he says I only got like a short, a pair of shorts and a T-shirt
.
And so we went into our storageroom and, you know, you know,
gratefully, we had Adidasinventory and we fit them for

(14:46):
some shoes and some gear and aracing pack, so jackets.
So we we gave him, you know,basically everything he needed
to uh, to compete and train,which is awesome.
So here we are today.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, that's amazing, man.
I mean I have so many questionsand so many things to like kind
of start with here, but I thinkone of the ones I want to start
with, in my opinion, is likejust how amazing it's been that
it's basically developed intothis feeder program.
I mean, first you've got Josh,obviously, brian, now Cole
Campbell's on the scene and he'srunning pro for Adidas.
Like it's just so interestingto me.

(15:20):
I just I don't know, because Idon't see any other schools
doing anything even similar Likehow did you were you with
Adidas first and then you wereable to recruit Adidas over to
help do that, like as aprofessional athlete?
Like how did that work?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's, it's a.
It's a funny story, um, when Ijoined the program in 2015,.
You know, we don't go to any ofthese college races, right,
it's.
It's not inter, intercollegiate, uh sports that we do
.
So we, we got to go to Pike'speak, ascent over by you.
We need to go to garden of thegods, we need to go to sage

(15:56):
burner.
You know, moab races, um, andcompete in the open race.
So one of the races we used todo is the.
Have you heard of the?
You've heard of the grandtraverse, right, of course,
running from from crested butteto aspen.
So they do a ski one, two and abike one.
But this is the run one that we, we used to do back in the day.
Um, it was early season, earlyfall, so 41 miles and um two.

(16:23):
Maybe it was 2016, 2017, maybewe were over there and you know
you have.
We're at the finish line waitingfor athletes to come over from
aspen, and you got all thosefield reps right setting up the
tents and whatnot, and at thattime, the title sponsor was
adidas, adidas tarrix for grandtraverse, and so they set up a

(16:44):
tent in their shoes and stuff.
And you know, you're 18 to 22years old.
You see some free gear, youknow, and you're at a finish
line.
What's the first thing you do?
You go up to them and ask themfor free stuff, right, and so it
was funny.
Actually, the director that'spart of our program program
right now, kevin geisen, he wasone of my athletes at the time

(17:08):
and he was the one who was, likeyou know, leading the charge of
going up to this rep and saying, hey, we need to get some free
shoes and free hats, and youknow.
So the the rep at the time waslauren uh, moore's head.
He lived in aspen, he's a, heworks for adidas and um, you
know, gave him a bunch of freestuff.
But that was our sort ofconnection.

(17:29):
He gave me a card and he gaveme his card.
He's like yeah, man, let's,let's work out something.
I can give you a coupon code.
You know, help you guys outwith some product.
And um, sort of one thing ledto another.
Like that was the startingpoint.
I sent him the resume, I senthim mountain sports, and then

(17:50):
they really liked my sort ofrunning resume, so they added me
to their team.
You know, their real early years, back in the day, back in the
day and then from there, I justI started going on, you know,
these international trips andtalking to the big man above at

(18:12):
Adidas and really didn't knowwhat I did and had this other
team environment and really sawan opportunity to make it right
a partnership to help us providegear and product and feedback
to these, to these athletes, andand and to really market right
the us marketplace as well.

(18:32):
Because you got to remember,back in 2017, 18, not many
people heard about adidas terex.
Right, that was their outdoorbrand that they rebranded, you
know, from adidas outdoors toadidas terex.
So they, you rebranded, youknow, from Adidas Outdoors to
Adidas Terex.
So they, you know it took them,you know, five, six, seven years
and finally, last couple ofyears, they've been really

(18:52):
pushing the US market forpromotion and marketing.
But back then, it was always,you know, east Europe that they
were sort of marketing and inAsia that was a sort of
marketplace.
But we just sort of a rightplace at the right time and then
, um have have have beenpartners ever since, which is
really cool Um, that they'vethey've shouted quite a few

(19:15):
times for my athletes to travelinternationally over to, uh,
austria, gastein Valley, for theinfinite trails, which was
really cool.
I think we sent um two or threeteams over there in the last,
the last little bit, and justthat opportunity for nine
athletes from a collegiate levelto travel international and to

(19:38):
keep you know, compete againstyou know these these other trail
athletes is yeah, you know,opportunities of advancement for
for a lot of these guys andgals.
So, um, really cool to be a partof and really cool to see that
it's not a transactionalpartnership.
You know, it's not just a, uh,eight month or 12 month and like

(20:00):
, see, uh, they, they realizethis is a, a, this is a
long-term investment andpartnership that we got to
really contribute and invest alot and trust sort of our, our
process, of what we're doing tobuild these, these athletes on
the the us collegiate side andand again, like, yeah, I, I've
been promoting this for such along time that other colleges

(20:23):
why don't other colleges havehave this?
And you know, I'm, I'm almostat a point of, just right,
whatever we're we're doing, fine, we're getting a lot of
athletes coming in and I thinkit's just really hard for them
to visualize, uh, financially toput on right another trail
running team team.
Like we have an NCAA crosscountry and track team.

(20:45):
Why do we need a trail team?
Sort of thing.
So I, I, I don't think theyreally, um, really understand
the value of having this, thistrail team, this alternative to
NCAA, you know team environment,of how special it is for you

(21:07):
know the early years of mountainsports, the first four, five,
six years, um, we're allprivately funded.
So every year we had to reachout to private donors and try to
, you know, cross our fingers tohope that they would.
They would write the check andthen we would finalize our

(21:28):
schedule each of the sports.
But that's hard to do, right,you got to write.
Then everything changes andsometimes they don't write as
big as a check as you think.
And so, finally, with tutelageof Duncan Callahan, showing the
value of the board of directorsat Western of how important this

(21:50):
program is for the school 140athletes at Mountain Sports and
the retention a lot of them areout-of-staters, uh, great, great
GPAs one of the highest GPAsout of all programs and
including NCAA.
And so they saw that value ofwhoa.

(22:11):
We better invest in these guysin this program.
So that was basically theturning point of of Western, of
really um valuing our, our, ourprogram that we've been building
from the ground up.
And of course we still get someprivate donors right.
But our, our, our, ourfinancial part is really due to
um, the, the Western, thecollege, um giving us a budget

(22:37):
each year to fulfill our program.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's amazing, man.
Can you, can you talk a littlebit to inside, so like, let's
say, maybe inside baseball?
On the program, I'm justcurious how many athletes do you
guys have on the trail-specificteam at any given time?
And then also, what is thatrecruitment process like?
Do you go and find athletes, orare they ringing you up at this
point, calling your phone totry and get into the program?

(23:01):
How does that work?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
So back in the day, you know, numbers are, are, are
increasing for sure.
It's right during COVID thateverything, everyone, everything
sort of shrunk up.
You know we had, you know,eight to 10 to 12 athletes.
You know, um early years we haduh 20, 25 athletes.
Uh, last fall I had 35 athleteson my fall roster, that's

(23:28):
awesome.
So, yeah, and it's, and it's,you know, it's probably 60, 40,
right, uh, male to female, uh,65, maybe, um, so it's, it's not
, you know, right, it's, it'spretty, even, um, so what's cool
about it is in the fall we havethat's, that's our main season

(23:49):
for the trail running, of course, right In Colorado.
So we take advantage of thatand not a lot of other sports
and mountain sports have havehave other things going on
except mountain biking.
So a lot of my athletes focuson that trail running all the
way through Thanksgiving andthen come Thanksgiving we have
about half of our athletesmigrate to sort of a winter

(24:12):
sport.
So your ski, mountaineering,nordic, you know, alpine, free
ride most of them is just theNordic and schema athletes that
I have on the team, but a fewyears ago I did have a free ride
guy that did some trail runningand then I hold about 18 to 22

(24:33):
of them through the winter andthe spring.
So it is a full nine-monthcycle that we do full year for
them at school, for them topractice, and of course in the
winter, wintertime, we got toget a little creative, getting
out the valley and going toraces, maybe going to the front
range.
Yeah, you know doing some funthings and uh, but mainly we try

(24:55):
to go west of town and hitmontrose and we hit, um, you
know, delta, and then we hitmoab for a lot of the races too,
because it's pretty convenientfour hours away.
And so your other question withrecruiting you know we used to
go to the state meet, the crosscountry meet, at Penrose Stadium

(25:18):
every year and we set up a, youknow a tent mountain sports
tent.
We handed out, like you know,terex gear and we, you know,
shirts and hoodies and hats andand uh, pamphlets about our
program and uh, I did I haven'tdone it in the last year just
due to conflicts and like racing, and we'll probably do it again

(25:39):
this next year for sure.
I don't want to get away fromthat.
I think exposure, uh andimpressions is really important,
but, um, that was really our,our only like really recruiting.
You know, more of a marketingploy, not really.
I'm going up there like NCAAand actually recruiting certain
athletes.
A lot of them tend to just sortof come to us and to us from

(26:05):
sort of what we've been creating, you know from and it looks
great to them right.
A lot of these high schoolcoaches I'll talk to and I get
their numbers and theyunderstand exactly what I'm
talking about when I sayunderstand exactly what I'm
talking about when I say, hey,we need some runners, or

(26:27):
actually, you know, let merewind they actually say I have
five runners, ncaa quality, thatwant to run NCAA.
I got six other athletes thatlove running and love cross
country but don't want to do theNCAA.
That's right.
That's sort of our avatar there.
That's our audience that wewant to sort of bring in because

(26:49):
we don't want to be an NCAAprogram.
That's not.
That's not the draw of whythese athletes are coming over.
You know we have fun in themountains and at the same time,
we introduce really good work,ethic and structure.
But a lot of this is just sortof word of mouth.

(27:10):
The articles that are out there, the podcasts, like you, the
friends just start to trickle inand people recognize it and you
do a simple search online.
You know trail running incollege.
We're the basically the onlyone who who comes up.
So I think you know, as trailrunning gets more popular and

(27:32):
mainstream, um, I, I don'treally have to be active
recruiting these athletes, right.
I, I can control that funnelcoming in based on, based on
needs and and their wants andstuff.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
so dude, I imagine, as the sport continues to grow,
and especially like I don't know, one of the things I was just
going to say is just the powerof the branding for you guys,
like from a western perspective,just because, like I mean,
before you and I have chattedand you know and and had this
conversation, like I would see,obviously, you guys showed up to
Pike's Ascent, you guys willshow up to Broken Arrow, you

(28:06):
know, you'll see, I think I canremember Cole a couple of years
ago, over the years at the 46Krunning in a Western jersey,
right, and it's like the powerof this Browning with Western
and then me on the front rangegetting to knowieran, nay, brian
whitfield, all these other guysthat kind of came up through,
you know, have one tie towestern or another.
It's just interesting to me thepower of the branding and how I

(28:26):
would imagine, as the as thesport continues to grow and gets
more popular, you're gonna havepeople like knocking down your
door to get, to come get a spotthere.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
I mean, it's just a matter of time, dude, like you
know it's, it's pretty cool itis cool and it's a good
testament of what, what we'vebuilt right, you know, and, and
really it's about, really youknow, the.
The program's not about the,the results yeah, the results
matter, but more than anythingit's it's about getting these

(28:57):
kids in and getting them in thisprocess and realizing to enjoy
this process of structure andwork, ethic and dedication of
something that they can controlright on a daily basis with
their goals and their choicesthey make.
So it's great to see a kidcoming in as a freshman and

(29:24):
really committing to the sportand watching this kid or this
athlete grow in two years, threeyears, four years, five years,
and what they are, the maturityand the growth of how they came
in to where they came out.
So it's a really cool processof right, um, um, making sure

(29:47):
we're not overloading theathlete with all these different
stressors.
You know I've been doing this along time and I have a pretty
good knowledge of, you know of,of my, you know my, my athletes
that are coming in and um, youknow I'm I'm going to treat, you
know, some athletes a littledifferently, on, on, on mileage
and intensity and um, whereassome of my other athletes I got

(30:13):
to have that fine balance rightand make sure once they come up
through right the ranks, thenit's it's time to sort of put
them more on a pedestal andlearn from these other athletes,
which is cool.
So it's really.
We're at a really good spotright now in our program where
we're not rebuilding anymore,and my old coach, a college

(30:33):
coach, used to say this all thetime you get into the spot.
That's really special in anyprogram that we're just
reloading every year.
Right, we're loading thoseathletes and those other older
athletes are teaching theyounger athletes and it's just
that, that awesome cycle, um,yeah it is, and in some years,

(30:53):
you, some years, a lot of theseniors leave, and then then you
are left with actuallyrebuilding something right from
um, from the new athletes comingup.
But once you have that cycle,man, it is I, I step back and
I'm just like I'm just lettingit sort of go on autopilot.
Right, I show up, I give themworkouts, I talk to them a lot,

(31:17):
but, um, but than anything, it'sthe athletes really motivating
me, each other.
You know they, they look at youknow our, our higher end
athletes that graduated theprogram and and they they follow
in their footsteps and it'sit's.
It's a pretty cool.
It's a pretty cool cool placeto be, cause I'm not like
forcing anything down theirthroat.
Yeah Right, it's.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
It's the motivation and driver that the team wants
to create.
It's a really neat process.
Well, it's that highexpectation when you have all
these guys and gals that came tothe program they're all elite,
so many of them it's a highexpectation to have to live up.
You got to live up to that,especially if I'm I don't know
if I'm someone that's a freshmanor going into that program like
that's the first thing I wantto do is I want to be, you know,

(32:05):
the next Keira Ney, brianWhitfield, cole Campbell,
whatever you know what I'msaying.
Like I think there's just itcreates that just evolution of
people holding themselves to ahigh standard to continue get
better, which is pretty dope.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, and and again.
Like I want to really stress itis it is not like all about the
results, you know, it's not allabout creating the coals or the
jashes, definitely not, like Ihave a.
I have a lot of athletes thatcome in that have different
goals and ambitions.
They, they all don't want tocome and be the next jash and
they don't, they just don't wantto do that.

(32:39):
But they love the work ethic,they love the trails, they love
the mountains and they loverunning right and they love the
team environment.
So I got to be aware of that,of of making sure.
Uh, that's the appeal, that'sthe draw of why they came in
here and I I don't want to belike here's the requirements to

(33:00):
be on our team, right, yeah, youknow, I, I, I had this.
I had this one girl that this isher second year and she's from
colorado springs.
It's actually karen's sister,um maria.
She was a dancer for so herwhole entire life.
She had little to no runningexperience at all and she came

(33:21):
into our program last year froma dancing background and she
absolutely fell in love with ourprogram and now, going on her
second year, she's one of my topleaders of the team, she's like
the glue to everything.
The team, she's like the glueto everything and and it's, it's

(33:43):
really cool to see that like,yeah, you got some top athletes,
but you got that motivationfrom all sides right with all
the same sort of goals, withcheering each other along, which
is really neat to see.
So, um, really cool, reallycool on all levels of, of
fitness can fit in and and itcan work towards one single sort
of thread goal of enjoyingnature and outdoors and

(34:08):
competing Right.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
How does the training work?
I think I'm trying tounderstand that Like do you just
give like where you have likestructured workouts that you
just give them every week andyou can?
You will do it as a team or youcan do it on your own.
Like, how does how does thataspect work, like getting
together?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, so, so the big thing.
And again, when I talk to a lotof athletes that want to like
be a part of the teamprospective athletes are
recruiting I make sure to totell them, you know, this is a
time commitment and this isreally a team environment.
You know, there's no reason tobe on a team if you don't want

(34:45):
to be on a team, right, right.
So I really, I really try todrive that, drive that home to
all these athletes.
If you want to show up and sortof do your own thing and you
have your own schedule and youhave your own workouts, guess
what?
The team, this team, is notmeant for you.
You know there's been a fewathletes like that and, uh, it

(35:07):
didn't, it didn't work out, justbecause we thrive on on the
team.
So, yeah, I provide them with,uh, with structured workouts
every day.
I give them a range of you knowwhere they're at on fitness
levels and, and you know, fortoday we actually have a workout
.
Today it's uh, four, three, two, one, one, one one and just

(35:30):
efforts.
So really, it's natural I givethem expectations and objectives
of of of what I want them tohit.
Uh, but I'm not necessarily atthe track saying you got to hit
these mile paces.
It's it's a lot more justeffort-based and I think that
works really well with uh.
Um, all calibers of athlete youknow try to hone into the effort

(35:52):
that you're doing, right, um.
So um, it's been, it's beenworking so far with uh.
With you know, I never doreally mileage, it's always just
on duration, especially whenyou integrate trails and
mountains and you know differentfitness ranges.
So it's always sort of on a ona slider of uh you know 60 to 70

(36:15):
minutes today, or you know 92,two hours on your long run,
stuff like that.
Um, but I got to be cognizantof of or aware of of some of
these athletes.
Not all of them come from ahigh school structured program.
So some of those athletes, yes,they understand the workout

(36:37):
structure and the stresses thatcome along with it.
But I also got to be aware ofum other athletes and being a
little more cautious of how muchI give them and make sure I, I,
I, um, well, whoops, we're all.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
No, you're good, I can still hear you.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh, you can still hear it Okay.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
So here you're just frozen, you're good.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, um yeah, just be be aware of I'm not
overloading them with with toomuch, with too much stress and
volume and intensity.
Uh, I've done that before andand again.
It's just I'm always learningas a coach of of of trying to
figure out, um, the best wayforward for all, all calibers of

(37:17):
athletes.
So it's not just a one thingfor the whole group and a lot of
these athletes they can take itas serious or not as serious as
they want.
The big thing I want them to beis a good team player and I
want them to have good work,ethic and be a nice person and
human being.

(37:37):
And if they can do that andcome to practice, that's all
we're asking for.
Right, I don't needexpectations for any kind of
requirements to.
You got to hit a mile in thisor two mile in that.
It's really about those sort ofthree drivers of character
building and discipline.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I love it.
Man, let's talk about theschedule a little bit.
Like picking, picking like alike, so for like a race
schedule, right, so likeobviously you guys have like
sage burner, that's right downthe road.
Like you have a lot of likedifferent races.
You have some in moab, brokenarrows, coming up in june.
Like how will you pick thecalendar?
Is it like more?
So well, we'll all do this as ateam and we'll go to this and

(38:18):
like where it's elective, likehow does that work for going to
a race?
Like do you teach them how totaper and all these different
things.
Like to get ready for thisstuff.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, we, you
know, I do, I do periodize,right, we have our fall season
and then we have our winterseason and then we have our our
spring season too.
Spring season to our winter andspring season is sort of
combined into one.
But, yeah, absolutely I try tohave, you know, a season where

(38:48):
they're building up, that wehave some training races where
they can work on, you know,mastering their craft, mastering
pacing, mastering technicaltrails, you know mastering
fueling.
You know that's a big thing nowfor you know some of that
longer stuff.
So, um, we try to go throughall this stuff right during
practice so it's a little easier.

(39:09):
Uh, at the end, and thenusually at the end of you know
the fall or the end of thespring, we usually have a bigger
event and that's where I reallytry to taper the athletes and
try to build that one up.
So it's mainly just me talkingto the athletes and trying to
build our calendar.
What we've done before ourrelationships with race
directors Um, we had a reallygood relationship with, um, the

(39:34):
old Pikes Peak uh, race directorJordan, right, you know her.
So unfortunately she's not apart of Pikes Peak anymore, but
you know those types ofrelationships.
We have a really goodrelationship with Mad Moose.
You know the Rick's family thathave you know, given us great
discounts and you know the easeof registering.

(39:55):
You know 30 athletes andworking with us is so huge.
So really it's me just sort ofputting together a schedule that
, um, that will challenge them,that will sometimes be different
, that will have fun, right, notevery race needs to be right,
uh, a based in Cirque series,even though we open up with that

(40:16):
every every fall.
And that's a good, yeah, that'sa good one that we just opened
up one and that sets the tonefor the entire season of like
hell, yeah, you know, likethat's good stuff, yeah.
So six series it's just suchhigh energy and you know Julian
is doing such a bang up job, uhwith that.

(40:37):
So that's like a good sort oftaste of like our trail, our
trail program at the beginningof season.
But we don't, you know, wedon't always in the fall, we
don't always just go to raceseither.
I usually pick two or threeweekends where we do some team
camps as well.
And some of our team camps arelike we had one at Leadville

(40:57):
this year.
We had three days at Leadville.
We did, you know, albert, wedid Massive, we did Hope Pass,
we did Turquoise Lake.
You know all the big.
You know fun, low stress.
You know mainly justexploratory runs and I think
that really bonds.
You know the team really wellwith each other and get to know
each other.

(41:18):
You know we went to Grand Canyonagain in the fall and we tried
to go there.
You know every year, everyother year, the San Juans, we do
a big San Juan trip out thereand we hit some 14ers and hit
the hot springs.
So not every weekend is right arace opportunity.
Some of the weekends are morehey, let's go get some time on

(41:40):
our feet, let's go explore mountsneffles and it'll take us five
or six hours, but right, wewill hike, we'll run, we'll eat.
Well, you know, we'll justexplore out there, and I think
that really balances a lot ofthese athletes, and especially
those high ones, those highcaliber ones that don't push
themselves too hard, that right,that realize this is why they

(42:04):
got into running in the firstplace.
This is, this is why we get tothe top of, you know, these
mountain ranges and we lookaround and we go.
You know, this is exactly why Ichose trail running, just for
this, to be you in the momentand to be a little more closer
to nature.
And it's just, it's really coolto see on their, their faces,

(42:25):
all the athletes.
It gives them so much moremotivation and purpose for, for
showing up, and, and, and, andand working hard.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
It's a soul sport man .
I think that's the beauty of ittoo, is like it's a soul sport.
It's no-transcript.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Exactly.
And again, the draw right, thedraw from why they, they saw
these cool videos on Instagramor or you know articles.
You know I want to do that.
I don't want to go to the trackand run 400 repeats right you
know I I don't want that sort ofright, that so identity and
again, a lot of these I've had.
You know this is my 10th year.
I've had 13, 14 athletes fromthe ncaa side come over and join

(43:35):
.
You know us on on the mountainsports trail running sign and
that's the coolest part of thisthing too.
Like they, they come to westernon scholarship, most of them to
run ncaa.
Within a year or so they theyrealize this is either too much
or this isn't what I wasexpecting, right and but they,

(43:56):
they want to continue to run.
They come over to our programwithin a couple of weeks.
They're completely rejuvenatedand it's really cool to see
those successes that they see intrail running to keep them
going and showing up on my teamthat no problem can get into a

(44:26):
lot of NCAA programs.
But they chose Western's trailrunning program because of our
environment that we're buildinghere.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, no, dude, I think it's so special man.
I do have a question related toBecause, for those on the team
that are interested in competing, maybe at a really high level
after they graduate, will youlike, for instance, because this
year is a special year, because, like broken arrow is the us
mountain running champs with theascent, there's a golden trail
series race in the 23k and thenyou have got soon a p for the up

(44:53):
down like, will you take themto either of those selection
races to get exposure and kindof see what that's all about?
Like, for the people that arecurious about that in.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
In years past we, we have gone to mountain sport,
mountain, uh, mountain champs.
When it was out in NewHampshire and a few years ago we
we went there.
It just if it, if it lines upwell with our season, then we do
it.
Broken arrow in the past.
You know, this year, every year, broken arrow gets more and
more competitive.

(45:23):
Yeah and um, it's, it's amazing.
I have a good relationship with,with the race director and, but
there's limited bibs that hecan give out, right, yeah, so
you know he understands ourprogram, he respects our program
, but with it being right, somany championships in the three

(45:45):
day weekend, it's really toughto give out all these bids to my
athletes that want might bethere.
I'm signed up for the verticalmyself, um, but we are not
taking a big group to brokenarrow for that reason, because

(46:06):
we didn't get those bibs and, um, they could get on the waiting
list and we could see, uh, butwhat we usually like to do is
take them there and then hangout that whole week and then
hang out and watch Western state, right, western states and crew
that, especially with theTareks crew.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, yeah, no, and I think that's that's so special,
Like for a young athlete to beable to see like it's not just
about the tracks, Like there'sthis weird crazy sport that we
do Some people run a hundredmiles, some people run a VK and
there's options.
Like I love that, Like to beable to show someone young that
there is more options than justthe track.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Uh is really cool, you know, and oh man, those,
those, those races yeah, you hitthe nail on the head.
Like those races that we go to,sometimes we it aligns
perfectly.
We go to Leadville 100.
That's the beginning of schooland we go out thereville 100,
that's the beginning of school,and we go out there and we run
and we sort of watch and andfollow the race and then that

(47:06):
that is a whole nother rightsort of learning experience for
these kids to really navigate to.
And again, this year we'llprobably get a lot of athletes,
or a handful of them, to go toWestern States and and chair and
crew with the Terex crew aswell.
So we won't do the broken arrowas a big team, maybe one or two

(47:27):
athletes, but the WesternStates most likely we'll send
out a few so we can sort offollow and and and and just
accrue the race.
It's, you know, and to havethat experience at that young of
an age.
They leave home with that andthey think, holy cow, this is,
this is.
I want to do that someday.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
I want to train for a hundred miler.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
This is like so cool to be a part of.
You know something bigger.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, it's special man.
I love that, what you guys arecreating with it.
I do have like a personalquestion for you with it, though
.
As a coach and as the leader ofthis how do you balance also
being a professional athlete inthe sport?
Is it difficult to balance bothof those things?
You have your own goals andyour own races and things that
you want to do as well, and, I'msure, your own professional

(48:16):
aspirations, while also beingthe guy and managing this whole
thing Like.
What is that like?

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, it's not bad.
You know, after, after 10 years, you get, you get used to it
and you figure out a good system.
So you know, me, me and buddyDuncan, we we run together
almost every morning.
You know, this morning we wemet up and, you know, did a
workout.
So it's it's.
I try to get all my my seriousstuff in in the morning and and

(48:44):
then usually in the afternoons Itry to, you know, either jump
on a trainer or something tobreak up some stuff or, uh, if I
want to participate in one oftheir, their fun workouts.
I usually don't run or work outwith them as much anymore just
because I got a lot of otherstuff.
I'm trying to sort of manage,uh, logistics and whatnot.
Um, but I I always, you know,navigating that isn't so hard,

(49:11):
like you were, you were sort ofturning to it's.
It's quite, quite easy andactually enjoyable for me.
I'm usually doing really similartraining to them and so, and a
lot of the races I do as well.
So that really helps me as acoach to identify, like you know
, how they're recovering fromcertain races.

(49:32):
You know, we just got back fromred hot, which was a big moab
race and a lot of it's on hardslick rock, and we're we're
coming from Gunnison where wedon't have, you know, a lot of
trail access in the winter time,so it's a lot of snow running
and right little concreterunning yeah.
Yeah, and so when you go tosomewhere like Moab, your body,

(49:54):
your legs get just completelythrashed, and so doing those
races and that training withthem really helps me as a coach.
To identify like, maybe Ishouldn't prescribe, you know,
this training, uh, today,because of how I'm feeling from
recovery.
So, um, it's, it's a, it's afun balance and it, you know,

(50:16):
being around those kids is soenjoyable, getting to know them
as human beings and and reallyyou know the personality and
character.
I think it really helps methrive and and it keeps me young
as well, right, you're you'rearound 18 to 22 year olds, it's
like it's just.
It's just, it's really goodenergy.

(50:36):
You know, even though theytease me a lot, it's still OK.
You know, there's this old guylike I'm kidding, yeah, well,
well, josh, josh was the king ofthat.
He, he was the king of ofteasing me almost every week,
and but you know, I just brushedit off and uh, you know, let's

(50:57):
go run, let's go do something,and you know, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
That's funny.
It was.
I think it was Brian Whitfield.
He said the funniest story tome when he came on the podcast.
He was like I think Josh Eberlethought I was a bum.
It's like that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Well, you, you, you, you don't.
You don't know these.
I didn't.
I didn't think he was a bum atall.
No, but you don't know thesekids that first year.
And that's the cool thing,right?
You're not judging the book bythe cover.
So getting them to know themit's really cool and it's fun to

(51:37):
see that growth in all theathletes from year one to year
four or year two to year four tosee what they come out to be.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
It's cool, so what?
Let me ask you this.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
So, besides, the broken arrow ascent.
What do you have on yourpersonal schedule for the summer
?
Um, well, I'm going to.
We got um Salida this weekend,the run through time.
We got that one coming up onSaturday.
And then we have our big springrace, which is, uh, zion Ultras
, um and um, we have a 60k and a30k.

(52:06):
I I signed up for the 60k, soI'll be doing something a little
longer.
And then from there, basically,we have uh, gopro games.
We have that coming up in June.
Um, we, we, like, I said wewon't, I won't go over to.
Uh, is it Sunapee this year?
Right, the up and down yearwon't be doing that because I

(52:28):
think it's just too close forfor GoPro.
Um, and then I'll do brokenarrow.
I have a, I have a register, Ihave a ticket for silver rush,
the 50 miler Um, and I'm rightnow I'm just trying to figure
out another, another sort of bigrace to do, sort of in the, in
the in the fall, uh, in thesummer fall.

(52:49):
So, um, not anything, right,crazy big international right
now.
Uh, I definitely like staying alittle more stateside, I like
bringing the family along, asyou know, as I travel.
I think that's a big.
Another big thing about we'reon that as a, as an athlete and
a person.
I got two kids, got an amazingwife and it's just so hard to

(53:15):
write, to leave for that long.
But, being stateside, we candrive to most places, you know,
you know, we, we stayed over onthe west coast for such a long
time, uh, last year, and wetraveled the whole way up it,
all the way to Oregon, and itwas just so beautiful, you know,
along the way.

(53:35):
But, um, yeah, I'm trying tofigure out something, I'm trying
to figure out something, I'mtrying to figure out something,
but again, I, I, I, I try to getthrough right, be in the moment
and try not to think too toofar in the future.
But it's, it's, it's.
It's a weird situation we're inright now because you got to be
on top of it, otherwise youcan't get into some of these
races unless you have theinsider right.

(53:57):
So it's sort of like this right, this little little catch 22,
that I'm in Well, dude.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
The reason I ask is because, well, if you, uh, if
you want to bring some people toPikes, I'm on the.
I just got named to the boardof Pikes, so I know there's been
some changes in the RDs andstuff like that.
But a center marathon, whateveryou guys want to do, let's make
that.
Let's make that happen.
Bring some athletes out, andit'd be cool to get a group out
there.
It'd be super fun.
Keep the keep that going.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
That'd be great.
The pikes is awesome just to bearound that a big, a big race
environment like that and we wecamp.
We usually camp right there,right into town and um, yeah,
last year was a little trickybecause of the snow that second
day.
But yeah, you know, it'sconvenient, it works out.
Have a great time.

(54:45):
But yeah, thanks for the offer.
For sure we can definitely talkoff air about logistics and
what.
Maybe we can work out again foranother Pikes Peak, because
that really last year was reallytough for right.
I think I listened to your,your pod the other day and she
was at pikes peak, um, what'sher first?

(55:09):
yeah, yeah yeah, flannery about,and we were there too right,
and I had I had a handful ofathletes that are really, really
good at that technical part andthey basically turn around
right before that, and so it wasjust like her, it was right.
It was sort of like oh, dang it.

(55:30):
Exactly and, and, but they madethe best out of it and they ran
really good.
But again, some of theseathletes really liked the
technical mountaineering aspectand they thrive off of that
stuff.
And then some of my athletesare more like that runner based
and they don't like a ton oftechnical stuff.
So, um, but yeah, that was atough one to swallow, pill to

(55:52):
swallow, but again, a bigorganization like you guys have
it's safety first.
Right, I got it.
You got to understand andrespect everyone in the in the
race, not just you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
It's.
It's a tricky one, man.
I almost wonder, like at thatpoint, if they should have just
canceled the darn thing justbecause, like it would I don't
know I got more negativefeedback than I think that I was
expecting.
I think the other question isand this is for a whole nother
conversation is do we, do wework on trying to move it back
to August, cause that's what itseems like everybody wants?
Everybody's like no moreSeptember, like let's do an

(56:25):
August race, just because Idon't know I don't know if it's
the we just get way more snowstorms.
The weather's been crazier thelast few years, so it's like
kind of a you're rolling thedice in the high country in in
late September.
It makes it tricky.
So I don't know.
Yeah, it's going to beinteresting.
I would hate for it to happenagain this year and then we get
more people like being upset.

(56:45):
So I don't know, especially forthe 70th.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Yeah, I'll be, I'll, I'll, I'll be biased because if
it is earlier than you know, ifit's middle of August, it would
be tough for us to come.
Yeah, so again, not like that'syour decision, but it's set up
really well for our scheduleokay, oh well, that's good to
know, that's good to know.
But like, uh, you know we startschool the last week of august

(57:11):
and that's when our seasonstarts.
It's really hard to get all theathletes here earlier than than
than school, just because ofconflicts and whatever and
housing and stuff.
So again, not not to say that'slike a reason to go off of, but
you know I will play.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
I don't know, it's just yeah no, I was going to say
I will play devil's advocate,cause it is awesome that, like
you get that like tune up atCirque series, a basin which I
feel like, like Joe, quite a lotof people go and race a basin
before they go to Pikes.
It's because it's like thathigh altitude, stimulus, high
octane, a hard race just beforeand it's like a week or two
before the Pikes Peak.

(57:48):
So that works too, man, that'sgood stuff.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Yeah, so, yeah, it's interesting.
Now, all right.
So I want to transition.
I usually start with likeorigin stories in the beginning
of the podcast, but one of thethings I feel like I kind of
brushed around and it didn'treally like fully jump into or
immerse into was like yourbackstory.
Um no, I know you said you werein Michigan for a little bit
training for Hanson's, but like,what is your, what is your

(58:13):
relationship with?
Like how early did you getstarted with running?
And like, just give me like ajust a five minute elevator
pitch on like some of yourrunning background.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Yeah, but pretty.
You know, traditional in theold sense of.
You know a lot of the athletesthat you talk to never really
set out to be runners, right,they set out to be a basketball
player or a baseball player, andthen and then running was
secondary.
So you know, I started out highschool, middle school, just all

(58:43):
about basketball and then a lotof politics involved in
basketball.
You know, short, long storyshort, the the coach is.
The coach was dad of one of thepopular kids and I wasn't part
of his group in high school.
So when I tried out, I thoughtI tried out and I did well, and
I wasn't part of his group inhigh school.
So when I tried out, I thoughtI tried out and I did well, but

(59:04):
I wasn't in his friend group, soI wasn't on the team.
So I was just thinking tomyself okay, well, what sport
can I pick that is pretty blackand white, with, you know, tape
measure or stopwatch.
And I thought I thought tomyself well, running is perfect,
because you either run the timeor you don't.
It's pretty, or you jump the,you know the distance and or you

(59:26):
don't.
So in my head you know there'sobviously some politics involved
on a higher level.
But for me in that year I wasjust like, yeah, let's go all in
at running and, and, uh, I wasreal mediocre average runner in
high school.
I think I was 10, 10, uh, twomile four, 34 in the mile.

(59:47):
Um, I, I was second to lastplace in the two mile at air
force around your neck of thewoods and I, um, I was walking
back to the, to the tents, tosee my coaches and, uh, the, the
coach from western state at thetime, uh, duane vandenbush,
came up to me, introducedhimself and said you know, uh,

(01:00:08):
you ran tough and I see a lot ofpotential out of you.
Here's my number to.
He called me every weekend andand really gaslit me into going
to Western.
You know, I didn't get ascholarship.
I didn't get a scholarship tillmy, my third year, my junior

(01:00:31):
year, but he was an incrediblerecruiter and that was basically
how I got into the system.
Then I was at Western, myfreshman year.
I got kicked off the teambecause of the bad choices.
That was a real wake-up callfor me that it wasn't bad luck,

(01:00:51):
it was more of understanding,wait.
I got to be accountable formyself and make good choices and
hang out with the right people.
Right, you always hear that,right, you're the average of the
people you hang out with.
The right people.
Right, you always hear that,right, you're, you're the
average of the people you hangout with.
So, um, I I didn't realize thatthen until I got kicked off the
team and then I really woke upand said I got to really, um,

(01:01:12):
get my, my, my cards together.
So, um, from there, basically,I started running, more focused
on diet, did all the team stuffand and every year just saw

(01:01:43):
progress and one thing led toanother, with, you know,
national championship teams andindividual and awards and all
that stuff coming after it.
And then after college, justmore or less wanted to continue
running.
And, um, um, I made I made theworld team in 2004 for the

(01:02:03):
cross-country uh championshipsin belgium and when I was out
there I was, you know whatever,pretty young at the time, 22 I
think, um 24, 24 and uh, kevinand keith hansen were out there
because richie brinker made theteam as well.
We were roommates and and theycame in one day, kevin and keith

(01:02:26):
, and they, they looked at thewhole us roster and they said
you're the only one that's notsponsored out of, you know, the
4k and the 12k, because backthen they used to have the, the
two distances for world worldchamps.
And so they, they, they, youknow, gave me an offer and they
said come out to Rochester,we'll show you what we have for

(01:02:47):
the Hansons and um, we'll hopeto, you know, have a good
partnership.
And so, after, after worlds, Iwent out there and I liked what
I saw and signed a contract withthem and met a lot of great
people.
I learned a lot about myself,especially, you know, marathon
roads.
So I, you know, I, had a hugemarathon road track, sort of

(01:03:12):
post-collegiate run, until, youknow, 2012, 2013.
And then I started getting intouh, it was Tiva mountain games
back in the day, not GoPromountain games so I went to
there and I had success and, um,and then one thing led to
another, I was just moreinclined of, you know, um,

(01:03:33):
getting more into the trailrunning and the ultras.
And then I, yeah, it all justsort of culminated together, you
know, even though I made 2012,the Olympic trials, the marathon
trials, and then, well, that'dbe 2016.
I made that one as well.

(01:03:56):
Basically, off of the road,they lowered their standards, I
don't know, if you remember,they lowered their standards in
2016 because they didn't haveenough people, and I was one of
the people that were like 20seconds within the standard, and
so I got a phone call basicallywith two months or something to
go before the trials and saidhey, you're qualified for

(01:04:18):
Olympic trials, we'd love tohave you here.
And I was like I'm not even inshape, I haven't been doing much
and it was in the middle ofwinter and so, yeah, that
basically got me through to theOlympic trials for the marathon
and now it's just yeah, my lovefor the trails and mountains.
I don't even think about theroads anymore.

(01:04:39):
My passion is really just in um, in the mountain runs and and
the ultra scene, for sure.
So about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Yeah, dude, what a story man.
I gotta ask you this becauseI'm so curious.
I think I ask everybody thisquestion Is there a race that
you haven't done yet, like aseries in all, or is our gamma
or what it could be, whatever,is there something like?

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
you have as a bucket list, bucket list race still
left in the sport that you wantto do.
Oh, yeah, yeah, you knowthere's so many right.
I listen to a lot of your pods.
There's so many right.
Those bucket list ones, Like itit was.
I filled one of my bucket lista few years ago at utmb.
I did the the occ that was, youknow water race oh, my god,

(01:05:27):
it's everything you.
You see that it is, and evenmore when you're there
experiencing it and of course Iwas, you know, with, with the
whole terex family, you knowit's, it's just completely
mind-blowing the atmosphere, theenergy, the whole european vibe
running through those mountains, um, so that was a huge thing,

(01:05:49):
the huge bucket list.
I got off my list.
Um, you know, one of the one ofthe races that I've been
thinking about is, yeah, thesears and all that you mentioned
.
Not to steal what you just justsaid, but I am, I am, I don't
know you probably shouldn't saythis on camera, but one of my
strengths is just uphill runningand and and Sears and all right

(01:06:11):
is all uphill for whatever itis 16, 17 miles and so I think I
could probably fare pretty wellbecause I love just grinding on
the uphill when you start tosprinkle in a lot of that
technical and the downhill stuff.
Again, I probably shouldn't saythis on camera, but I'm not the

(01:06:32):
best at that and I don't reallythat doesn't draw me.
You know the hard rocks andstuff like that where I'm hiking
around and jumping down rocks.
I'm more of like you know, thatLeadville 100 type of type of
runner.
So, um, yeah, so interestingman.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Now I had to ask you I'm just so curious, what with
now, with this period in yourlife now, both as a coach and as
an athlete?
I'm curious to see, like, whatis your, what's your
relationship with, like withcompetition, just because, like
you had this like crazy careeron the roads and, um, you know,
on the track as well.
Like, how do you reconcilecompetition for yourself?

(01:07:13):
Are you an extremelycompetitive person still or no?

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Yeah, I have to say, and again, like no offense at
all, every time I hear you saythis in your pod, I laugh and
I'm like, I'm like dude.
I think most everyone at a.
and yeah right, there'sdifferent levels of competition
too, right, you know, but I'm,I'm super competitive with

(01:07:46):
anything sort of I do in life.
It's like, you know, when youhave, when you have kids and
you're playing, you know, horseor pig with them for basketball,
you know, you want to win, youknow, but again, again,
different levels, levels, rightof where you're at.
So you know, and sometimes I doworkouts with the team, races

(01:08:09):
with the team, and you know, I,I, I gotta, I gotta focus on
myself and them and showing themthat you know that I'm doing
this for the right reason too,to not really not trying to show
off at any means at all, but,um, really, like you put a lot
of effort into it and you can dopretty well, and that's my

(01:08:31):
whole thing with with competing,if I do a workout and not
trying to compete with with themand try to leave them in the
dust, because a lot of them canleave me in the dust for sure.
So, yeah, it's a funny questionthat you asked, but, yeah,
super competitive, I think yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
That's an interesting one.
It's always interesting.
I love seeing how people think,because you get some of those
people that are straight up likeyes, I'm the most competitive
person you'll ever meet in yourlife.
Then you get some people thatare like coy, you know that'll
play, play it a little, but thenyou see, like the levels, like
I think it was who the hell wastelling me.
I think it was someone tellinglike describing taylor stack.
It was like taylor's one ofthose people that like will lock

(01:09:13):
himself in a room and then comeback.
Come back when he's ready tocrush you yeah, kade michaels.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah, I was like man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
That's a different like that was the one that stuck
out to me is like that is themost craziest one I've ever
heard someone say like that'sinteresting yeah, yeah, no,
that's, that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
So again, not like, keep asking that question, but I
I will laugh every time you askit and and and hope for a
different answer.
You know, but it's funny.
Yeah, I can't wait to hear theone person that says they're not
.
I will laugh every time you askit and and and hope for a
different answer.
You know, but it's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Yeah, I can't wait to hear the one person that says
they're not competitive.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
We'll see if we get that one ever.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
I have not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Yeah, yeah Right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
All right, man.
So as we start winding down,we're at about an hour 15 now.
Uh, I'm very curious to see whoinspires you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yeah, it's.
You know it's a good questionwith.
You know where you're at inlife, right, my early years,
right, you sort of.
You know some teammates, mycoach, you know certain athletes
that you you read about andthat you you train with all the

(01:10:27):
time.
You know that inspires me.
You know transitioning to familystuff now is, is is a lot
family-based.
You know my, my dad inspires me, my wife inspires me, my kids,
the athletes on the team inspireme.
So you know it's, you know, um,it's, it's interesting where
you're at sort of in in life andhow how it changes so much.

(01:10:53):
Right, um, it's, it's, it'spretty, it's pretty neat process
to sit back and and, um andthink, uh, think, who sort of
got you here right?
And there's so many.
My coach back at Western,definitely a huge inspiration.
Michael Ish, he was a hugeinspiration at Western, helping

(01:11:16):
me figure out the whole trainingthing and how to train hard, me
figure out the whole trainingthing and how to train hard and
um, and then and then in myHanson years when I was there,
Brian sell, you know that guy.
I lived with him for a year, acouple of years, and training
with him every day was just acomplete inspiration about, like
how he treats how he treatstraining and how he treats being

(01:11:43):
in the moment in life andenjoying those interactions with
community and friends.
So one thing I do reallyrealize is you can't take
yourself too serious, right?
You got to sit back and laughat yourself a few times.
No one's perfect A lot ofimperfections out there but when

(01:12:06):
it's time to grind, it's timeto grind, but you don't have to
be that way off the court, so tosay, and I think that's a
valuable lesson for most people.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
It's a beautiful answer, man.
It's a great one too.
I love seeing all the differentpeople that like inspire you,
especially as you get older.
Like, different people havedifferent inspirations, right,
like it's you know, as a fatherand as you know, as a husband.
All these different things youknow come into play as you
change as a person and getinspired.
So it's, it's beautiful.
Just before you get ready for arace, I'm curious to see, like

(01:12:43):
what's your walkout song man?
Like what do you?
What do you?
What are you listening tobefore a race?
Like what's what's in thoseearphones?

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
well, I will be honest with you, a lot of the
races I I don't, like you know,back in my early days, yeah, we
used to get in the van with theteam and and crank up, like you
know, know your enemy freakingright, just just, you know,
volume 11, just go crazy.
Um, however, I don't know, thelast probably 10 years, it's

(01:13:13):
more of like going to theseraces.
I feel, I swear to God, I feelso much energy and adrenaline,
just being there, right, thewhole process of warming up,
seeing the race announcement,hearing the music, warming up
with your friends.
So I like that sort of energyand I try to live in the moment

(01:13:36):
there.
So in the races I usually trynot to put on anything to get me
a little disturbed of where,where I want to be.
But again, I'm a huge musiclover, of live music.
I love music, like this morningon my workout I had Dave and
Tim Dave Matthews Band and TimReynolds on.

(01:13:58):
They had a big concert inCancun and I put on some live
music and uh, but you know theyhave a few songs.
So so damn lucky Americanbeauty intro.
Uh, the stone gaucho, any, anyDave Matthews band fans out
there?
Uh, put those on your, yourplaylist and those just I don't

(01:14:19):
know.
It just gets you, gets yougoing Right.
It's great.
Love it.
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
All right, we got.
I got one final question.
It's usually the dumb one, it'ssomething between aliens, AI
and Bigfoot, I think.
For you, I got to ask causeyou're in Gunnison.
It's kind of like halfway tothe San Juans or close to the
San Juans which I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
I think I think of wilderness and Bigfoot.
So do you believe in Bigfoot?
I think I do.
I think I do.
I grew up and my dad, wewatched a lot of X-Files, a lot
of ancient alien stuff, a lot ofBigfoot stuff, and we've been
totally on, uh, expeditionbigfoot that series going on
right now, yeah, yeah, and solike every week, we, you know,
whole family gets around thetelevision and we, we watch it
and you know.
so I don't know, I I think, Ithink, I think there has to be

(01:15:15):
something and a lot of thebigfoot stuff, you know, the
more you look into it, it's alot of that paranormal or
supernatural activity that thatcomes with the bigfoot so it's
not necessarily, um, you'll seebigfoot corpse or anything right
or bones and a lot of thebigfoot readings that you do and
in such in videos, uh, there'sa lot of lights and you know um

(01:15:41):
sort of transformation of youknow them transforming into this
sort of supernatural being andand and going to different
places.
So I don't know, I'm trying tofigure it out myself, but uh, I
I want to believe and I thinkthat I think that's more
important.
I want to believe there'ssomething else out there same
besides us, right?
Same.
Yeah, that's a good answer, man.
No, I like how you, you watchsome of that stuff.
I'm and I want to believethere's something else out there
besides us, right?

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
So yeah, that's a good answer, man.
No, I like how you.
You've watched some of thatstuff.
I'm I'm listen man.
I love the conspiracy theorystuff, so like I'm all over it.
I'm always interested in likealiens and Bigfoot and all that
stuff.
It's fun to me, oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
You will not to keep this going, but real quickly
about the aliens.
Like you ever seen?
Fire in the sky, of course,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
Travis Walton.
Oh my gosh, that's like one ofthe things we saw way back in
the day with my dad and like, uh, just incredible that story.
So like he was missing forseven days and then he reappears
and then he, you know, has allthese visions.
So like, yeah, there's, there'ssomething out there for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
And especially like like not to bring Colorado into
it too, but like yeah, there's,there's something out there for
sure.
And especially like like not tobring Colorado into it too, but
like I think it was JacksonCole that was on the pot and he
was telling me cause he used tolive down in Alamosa and like in
the San Luis Valley there waslike this, uh, I think it was
like a they had like cattlemutilations and stuff and like
they have like UFO sightings allthe time.
It's kind of crazy.
So yeah, crazy.

(01:17:02):
So yeah, I don't know man, itkeeps the, keeps the lore a lot.
I want to believe I don't know.
The alien stuff to me seems alittle bit more plausible than
than bigfoot, just because likethat's kind of crazy to think
it's just like.
You can't just think it's justus.
There's got to be somethingelse going around out there, and
not to mention, like people seethings in the sky all the time
uh, yeah, you know who knows soyeah josh abberly.
this is a great podcast.
I can't wait to have a roundtwo.
Thanks so much for coming on.
We'll chat offline about thePike stuff.

(01:17:24):
We'd love to have you guys outthere.
And yeah, man, I appreciate itAll right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Thanks, james, love what you do and happy one year
anniversary again.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Oh, thanks, man.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
I want to thank Josh so muchfor coming on the podcast, just
so appreciative that we havepeople in our sport that are
willing to, you know, that havejobs like this, that are willing
to help shape the future of thesport.
You know, it doesn't matter ifit's at the professional level

(01:18:02):
or if it's just to look like forthe future by helping at a
young age, like instill, um, youknow, love for the outdoors,
love for the mountains and, andyou know, kids coming through
Western, that I just think it'ssomething so cool and so special
.
So really want to, you know,like, give Josh's flowers and
thank him for, you know, some ofthe amazing work that he's
doing over at Western.
So pretty cool stuff.
Um, I'm sure you guys will seehim at a race soon with the
Western crew.
We hope to have them back atthe Pikes Peak Marathon in

(01:18:23):
Ascent this year and I know he'sgoing to be traveling around to
some other races as well, suchas I think it was a Red Rocks,
and I know they have somepartnership with going to some
of the Mad Moose races for theArches and Red Hot Ultra and
stuff like that.
So, yeah, pretty cool stuff andI'm just super thankful for you
know Josh being candid andcoming on for a conversation.

(01:18:44):
Guys, give him a follow.
You can find him on Instagramat run sleep design.
That's run sleep design, oneword.
Or you could just type in JoshEberle, give him a follow, send
him a message.
If you have anybody that you'reaware of or is interested in,
you know wanting to learn moreabout the Western Colorado
running team the trail runningteam, that is you could send

(01:19:05):
them a DM.
Or you can hop on the websiteand you can give them an email.
Send them an email.
His email is on the WesternUniversity or Western Colorado
website and you can send somewords over there and see if you
know there's any interest, whichis pretty cool.
So, yeah, guys, I reallyappreciate it.
Thanks so much for tuning in.
If you enjoyed this episode,please give us a five-star

(01:19:26):
rating review on Apple, spotifyor wherever you consume your
podcasts.
And, yeah, have a great rest ofyour week.
Thanks so much, thank you.

(01:19:46):
We'll see you next time.