#86 - Garrett Corcoran - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello.
Guys, I'm so excited to bringyou today's episode with none
other than Mr Garrett Corcoran.
Garrett the Parrot joins us onthe pod.
Really fun, super excitingconversation.
It was fun to catch up withGarrett and see what he's been
up to.
It's funny.
It's actually our secondconversation on the podcast, our
first one that we had done.
We were unable to do for audioqualities, so we were unable to

(00:20):
do for audio qualities.
Uh, so we're able to come backon and redo it and I really want
to thank Garrett for for doingthat.
Um, guys, for those of you whodon't know, garrett's been super
popular on the golden trailseries scene.
Uh, over the last few years,specifically last year, he went
and raced the golden trailseries final um, despite some
setbacks, um around mid, withsome stitches in his knee, he

(00:41):
was able to come back and havegreat races at Mammoth Trail
Fest as well as Headlands, notto count out a super good race
that he also had in Japan atKobe Trail.
Garrett is probably best knownfor some of his finishes in 2023
, including actually 2022, wherehe did one JFK, as well as 2023
, where he technically made twoworld teams.

(01:03):
My guy got fifth place at thevertical at Soonape and
qualified for the US uphill teamas well as first place at the
Breakneck 42K, which got him onthe marathon team where he
subsequently went on to go racethe marathon at Innsbruck and
Worlds and got himself a top 20finish, probably one of the most
highly touted prospects.

(01:23):
I know he is a goofy guy andlike doesn't you know he's like
not as serious about the sportbecause of you know he likes to
have fun and enjoy himself, butlike as far as prospects go,
like probably one of the mosthighly touted, just straight up
talented dudes to enter oursport, having run at the
University of California,berkeley at a super high level
as well as a high level in highschool, california Berkeley, at

(01:45):
a super high level as well as ahigh level in high school.
So Garrett tells his story.
It was really fun to get him infor a long-form conversation
and, yeah, I hope this isn't thelast time we chat.
I'm looking forward to seeinghim at SUNAP as well as Broken
Arrow.
So, guys, without further ado,I hope you enjoy this one, none
other than Mr Garrett Corcoran.
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
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think.
Garrett Corcoran, welcome backto the steep stuff podcast.
How are you, buddy?

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Pretty good man.
How are?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
you.
Good, man.
I this is kind of funny.
We're doing this round to theaudience doesn't know this, but
we recorded an episode that wewe didn't use, so we're coming
back for another one.
Um, yeah, man, start to haveanother conversation with you.
How's, how's everything going,man?
It's been, it's been like amonth or so, so what's up with
you?

Speaker 2 (04:33):
yeah, uh time's really flown, I feel like since
the last time we talked uh, justdoing a lot of running and
skiing and working yeah, yeah,how's the new job?

Speaker 1 (04:43):
you uh super busy these days, yeah yeah, yeah, we
uh.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Luckily I'm not working any overtime, but we're
staying a lot busier at workthan I was at my last few jobs,
so that's been nice andrewarding.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
How's the uh flow between, like, skiing and
running going these days?
Are you starting to run more,getting ready for summer
objectives, or are you stillskiing a bunch?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I keep thinking I'm gonna start running more, and
then the snow keeps, you know,coming in and being good.
So yeah, uh, yeah, I skied alot more in march and april than
I did in prior months this year, just because I was training
for a marathon leading intomarch and then finally had some
time to ski a little more march.
And yeah, last week I think Iskied four times.
Uh, but still trying to squeezesome running into that was

(05:28):
pretty solid, dude.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Do you find it like, is it a pain in the ass for
someone like you to have tobattle?
Like it's like I don't know,like you've got a big boy job
and you also run at a high level?
Like is it a pain in the ass tohave to juggle all that for you
, or is it pretty just natural?

Speaker 2 (05:41):
um, I'd say it would be a pain in the ass if I was
trying to train like a lot of myuh friends that you know don't
seem to prioritize their workschedule that much, just like
I'm not I'm not gonna go and runat like 10 or noon on a weekday
, and if I constantly felt likeI wanted to be doing that, yeah,
it'd be a little bit pain inthe ass, but like it's still
pretty easy to fit running andskiing in around an eight hour

(06:05):
work day, like a lot of otherpeople can do it, why can't I?
Especially if I can go a littlefaster than a lot of other
people and fit something in longor in a short amount of time
than other people, can you knowif other people can be out there
for four hours after work?
I can be out there for two,it's not that hard.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Are you remote?
Are you in the office now?

Speaker 2 (06:27):
um, fully in the office, oh man, yeah, we're like
we're building a factory uh, mycurrent job so I'm in there.
We don't really have any, uh,operation staff at the moment.
So all the engineers and allthe PhD scientists are in there,
like you know, physicallyscrewing in all the pipes and
connecting all the hoses andusing, uh you know, big pipe
wrenches, welding stuff, um, soit's been pretty fun, but it's

(06:50):
definitely been a little bit ofa switch up from what I've done
in the past, where we just hadoperation staff to do all that
stuff and we just kind ofwatched him yeah, you were.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
You were in defense contracting before, right before
you got into what you're in nowyeah, um.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I was working for north of grumman for almost
six years and then I worked foranother smaller defense
contractor, l3 harris, for a fewmonths before I came over to
where I'm currently at, which iscalled clean jewel, which is
kind of adjacent to defensecontractors.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Also, we're, um making jet fuel and one of our
customers is the government, so,um, yeah didn't really escape
it, I don't know, I feel likeyou know, every time I think of
northward grumman and I think oflike you know, lockheed.
First thing I think of like isufos and shit.
So it's like I don't know, it'slike it's kind of cool, I don't
know different yeah, uh it's.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
You can say you work on cool stuff.
I wouldn't say it was thatexciting yeah sorry if anybody
from north earth's listening tothis.
It's boring as hell.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
There's a reason I'm not there anymore I had a buddy
from grad school that I think heworked at sikorsky and he like
was he does.
He was a mechanical engineerand like design or did something
with like blackhawk helicoptersand was like what a cool job
man like so different.
But I don't know, it's hard to,I guess hard to get into doing
stuff like that individually, Iguess yeah, definitely it's.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
They put you in really narrow swim lanes and uh,
yeah, I think when you're justfocused on this one small little
thing, you lose focus on thebig project and just gets really
not that fun and you'reconstantly waiting on other
people to get your work done.
Yeah, fair enough fair enough.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
All right, man, let's , let's talk running for I know
a lot of the audience,especially in the sub-ultra
scene, like know who you are.
I'd say the.
The first and probablyredundant question I'm going to
ask you is, like, where did theparrot moniker come from?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
like, let's, let's dive into where garrett the
parrot like originated um, yeah,I guess that started when I was
probably three or four.
Like you know, not long after Ilearned to talk, my cousins all
started making up names thatrhymed with my own name.
So for a while I was Garrettthe carrot, I was Garrett the
ferret, I was Garrett the parrot.
When I first made my Instagram,I was actually Garrett the

(08:58):
carrot and I decided I was gonnado like a new year, new me
thing.
The first new year.
That occurred after I made myInstagram and decided to be
Garrett the parrot and for somereason that one stuck and while
I was in college I got alsodoubled down on the parrot thing
.
So I would just parroteverybody's little catchphrases

(09:21):
or whatever jokes we were makingaround the team and just run
them into the ground.
So the parrot name really stuckand haven't really gotten rid
of it.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
I like it, man, it's a fun one.
You know, I think we need morelike catchy names and you know,
in the scene and I think Garrettthe Parrot, it's a good little
like, I don't know, it's acatchy name, dude, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
So let's talk running .
It's a good little I don't know.
It's a catchy name, dude Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
I'm glad you like it.
Let's talk running.
Obviously, dude, yourrelationship with running is
crazy.
You were probably one of themost highly touted as far as
prospects going.
You ran for UC Berkeley and youhad a crazy cool career there.
High school was probably prettycrazy for you as well.
Maybe talk about what it waslike training at a high level
and running at a high level inhigh school was probably pretty
crazy for you as well.
Maybe talk about like what itwas like training at a high
level and like running at a highlevel in high school, and like

(10:07):
the recruitment process going tocal and like getting recruited
to go d1 at a high level yeah,it's kind of funny looking back
on that, like running at a highlevel meant a lot different back
then, or it meant something alot different back then.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I didn't spend nearly as much time running.
You know, when you're 15, 16,17, like most high school
coaches don't want you to runtoo many miles, get burnt out,
start getting injured and thennot be able to have a longer
career, uh, so my coach didn'treally have me run more than 50
miles a week and I was justrunning really fast all the time
, like I would go months withoutrunning a mile over six minutes
.
Um, so the time I spent runningwas you was maybe five hours a

(10:45):
week, which really wasn't much,but it was high intensity.
Yeah, I grew up in a reallycompetitive running area, just
with such a high population inSouthern California, so I
constantly had chances to runfast when I was in high school,
so I did end up running prettyquick.
I had two guys in my immediateleague that um both also went.

(11:08):
Uh, one went on to winningmultiple d2 championships and
another one went on to go run atthe university of oregon.
He ran 401 in high school.
Um, awesome to agno, and beforethem there were plenty of other
fast guys that were alwaysaround to race like almost every
week, sometimes multiple timesa week, um, so I feel like we

(11:30):
all kind of rode the wave ofeach other's success and, uh,
you know, continue gettingbetter because of that, and I
feel like that was a benefit Ihad in high school that a lot of
other people didn't like.
I know you've talked about dancurse before.
Um, yeah, he grew up in ruralmaine and didn't get the chance
to race people that often, butwhen he did go race he would
race really well.
Um, but he like didn't reallyget those chances until he was a

(11:53):
little bit older, whereas, like, I always had somebody faster
than me to go race, like almostalways.
So, um, yeah, that made it easyto, uh, I guess, run fast
enough to go to berkeley and, uh, yeah, had a fun career there.
I feel like sometimes I didn'thave as much fun as I probably
should have and took the runninga little too seriously, but uh,
you know, found, found balanceafter a while dude, I gotta ask

(12:18):
you so like your, your story isvery interesting.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Like you pursue running at a very high level,
seriously high.
You're a smart dude, likebachelor's and master's in
mechanical engineering from UCBerkeley.
Obviously, uc Berkeley is anamazing institution to go to.
What were you like?
An AP?
What was it?
Were you a National MeritScholar as well, or something
like that?
I did some research into you,dude.
Everything you pursue is at avery high level, like was that

(12:43):
instilled to you?
Like in your childhood?
Was like mom and dad very likeserious about academics and
things like that, because you'reyou're a bright dude.
Like where, where does thatcome from?
Or is that personal for you?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Um, yeah, I don't know.
My parents always just told meI was special and after a while
I started believing them, and Ithink they told me that too many
times.
So you know, sometimes I walkinto things thinking I'm the
best one.
Maybe I'm not, but you know,the confidence can carry you a
long way.
It's true, it's true.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
What was it like getting?
Like did you have your pick ofschools coming out of high
school to go to college?

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Like what was the recruitment process like for UC
Berkeley for you, yeah, I guessI had a lot of schools reaching
out to me.
I had really wanted to go to anIvy League school.
My dad caught wind of the factthat they don't give out
athletic scholarships and myparents' household income was a
little going there withoutconsulting me first, which hurt
a little bit.

(13:37):
It would've been cool to atleast have gone on a visit to I
don't know I was talking withthe coach at Cornell and liked
him and I think that would havebeen fun to go on a visit there
Princeton or Columbia.
But yeah, I was mostly justlooking at schools on the West

(14:02):
Coast.
By the end of the recruitmentprocess it was arizona state,
berkeley, cal poly, slow and usc, um, and I had been really
trying to go to stanford, um.
They were my number one schoolat the beginning of the
recruitment process but I didn'treally have a great uh
conversation with their coachesand decided to go to Berkeley to

(14:24):
stick it to them, cause that'sthe rival school and never
really ended up sticking it tothem.
I had a couple of good racesagainst some of their athletes
but, um, you know, lost to GrantFisher every time I raced him.
And you know now he's a doubleOlympic bronze medalist.
You know certainly nothing tohang your head about, but I

(14:45):
certainly wasn't going to stickit to him by beating all their
guys every time I raced him,that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
What, uh, what was the program like at cal?
Like was it?
Because I know dan was prettycandid about like what iowa
state was like and he had somethings to say.
Like some people have greatexperiences, some people have
terrible experiences.
Like, what was your experiencelike have great experiences?

Speaker 2 (15:05):
some people have terrible experiences like what
was your experience like um, calwas definitely a d1 program
that seems to prioritize havingfun a little bit more than other
schools.
Um, we, our track house waslike right on the route that we
would drive away from campus forlong runs on saturday or sund
mornings and we'd meet at thelocker room.
We'd get in vans.

(15:26):
We had like three vans thateach held like 15 people and the
coaches would drive us down togo to a long run.
They'd always wrap themselvesright by the Fulton house to see
if there were any cans of beerlaying around the front yard and
, if so, how many.
So they kind of knew what welike, what most of the team, was
up to.
But, uh, you know, like, yeah,we had fun.

(15:52):
Uh, there were there were timeswhen, you know, we got down and
got serious.
But I feel like the the thingthat, like looking back, that I
remember most was or I guess notwhat like left a big impression
on me.
Years later, after I likegraduated from college, was my
freshman year.
The fastest guys on the teamwere all partying really hard
like every weekend and um, atthe time I couldn't figure out
how they could keep getting awaywith it.

(16:13):
They'd run a really fast raceon saturday, get hammered
saturday night.
Uh, sunday morning, get up andgo for a long run.
It'd be like they'd run 60minutes at 10 minute miles for
their long run and it'd be likehow the hell are they even like
still running fast if that'swhat they're doing?
But like they weren'tsacrificing stuff and to just to

(16:34):
run fast.
You know they, they wereworking hard and playing hard
too and like you know that cancatch up to you if you're not
giving yourself the time torecover and sleep.
But if you do that one night aweek, especially when you're
like 21 years old, like you canget away with that as long as
you give yourself time torecover other days.
So yeah, I feel like that wasone of the bigger lessons that I
took away from that is justlike don't forget to have fun

(16:56):
alongside with your running, andlike the running should also be
fun too, like we had fun on ourruns.
We were a pretty close group andit was felt like it was a big
team of individualistic people,like everybody was their own
person and like had veryindividual personalities which,
looking at other teams, didn'treally seem like that was the
case.
Like a lot of other teams werejust like a lot of like cookie

(17:18):
cutter looking dudes and we wereall just like I mean, you know,
being at berkeley like it's alittle bit more countercultural
and like people would have stickand poke tattoos and like
bleach their hair.
But like everybody looked liketheir own person, acted like
their own person, like outsideof practice, we'd hang out a lot
, but we also, like everybodyhad their own social groups that
they were a part of as well.
So, um, yeah, it was.

(17:40):
It was a fun place to be.
I I don't have any regretsabout going there.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh dude, I wouldn't.
It sounds like a blast, bro,let's get into trails.
So after school, after collegeis over, you moved to Salt Lake
for a job, correct?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, I had been in Baltimore for a little over a
year before I came to Salt Lake.
But yeah, when I did move toSalt Lake it was for a a job I
was working at north of grummanalready in baltimore and I
coerced the hiring manager foranother job with north of
grumman in uh clearfield, whichis north of salt lake city,
basically into hiring me when Iwas out here on a ski trip and

(18:20):
then two days later everythingshut down because of covid and I
moved out here like six monthslater after that kind of settled
out.
But yeah, that's why Ioriginally came out here was to
work, but I wanted to come herebecause it was close to the
mountains.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, Did you grow up skiing?
I was wondering because somepeople move to the mountains and
just teach themselves.
I think I've heard in otherpodcasts and stories of you, I
think I think going doing likeski trips and I think it was
like jackson or something likethat.
Like, did you grow up doingthat or did you teach yourself
when you moved out?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
I grew up, uh, basically skateboarding on a big
ski resort in, uh, southerncalifornia I don't know if
you've heard of bear mountain,but uh, it's basically an
extension of southern californiaskate culture.
Like everybody's wearing dc andvolcom, like I had never heard
of heli hansen or, like you know, ross and y'all or any of these
like ski brands when I was uhgrowing up snowboarding down

(19:15):
there.
But, um, I would.
I got a season pass a couple ofyears.
I didn't snowboard a whole lot,but you know, everybody's just
riding park there.
It's not the same as out herewhere you have deep powder
skiing, like there you don'treally ski powder at all.
Like there's only snow on thegroomed runs because it gets
packed down onto the groomedruns and everywhere else it's
bare.
Um, so that was kind of myexperience.

(19:36):
Yeah, that was kind of myexperience skiing growing up.
Um, I actually broke my legsnowboarding in eighth grade.
I ran into a tree and just likesnapped my fibula.
So I remember that when I waslike starting to get more
serious about running at the endof high school and during
college and I didn't, I didn'tsnowboard for like six or seven
years and then picked it back upwhen I graduated, so I guess,

(19:58):
long story short, I did grow upsnowboarding, but not in the way
that I snowboard and ski now.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Not in the way that I snowboard and ski now, not in
the traditional way.
No, the reason I ask is justbecause, like you're, you're out
there, you know you do a lot ofbackcountry stuff so and it's I
don't know.
It's pretty cool seeing youknow runners kind of get out and
do mix it up and do both things.
Dude, what when you moved outhere, like, or moved out to salt
lake, like what got you hookedon trail running?
Like what?
What?
Like was it a social scene?
Like what was it that got youstoked on it?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
It was a social scene for sure.
I was pretty burnt out oncompeting when I moved out here
and I just kind of wanted tofind people to go run with,
cause running was my favoritesocial activity.
Um, and I moved in next door toa couple of guys who hosted
this like pancake breakfast.
Every Sunday they go for like aroad long run and then invite

(20:51):
people over for pancakes, and acouple of those, some trail
runners showed up and I startedgetting invited on trail runs
and I kind of started realizingI could just like hike around in
the mountains and like run someof the downhills and call it
running and people would justthink that's a run.
And there were a lot of peopleout there that wanted to do
stuff like that and go to really, you know, go really cool

(21:12):
places, whether it was like onthe weekend or after work or
before work.
So I just kind of got into itfor the community and, just like
you know, I was hiking placesand it was taking me like four
or five hours to do somethingthat like now that I'm running a
lot of, it takes me like anhour and a half, two hours and I

(21:32):
could, you know, just cover alot more ground in a shorter
amount of time.
So that was also something thatappealed to me.
But yeah, more than anything,just finding some people that
enjoyed it and not wanting torun alone and, um, yeah, just
getting kind of roped into it,eventually ended up signing for
some ultras and, uh, now,sometimes race too much so dude,

(21:56):
your, your personality with thesport is very fun.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Like you just seem like, like you're you genuinely
enjoy it like you're, you'revery stoked on it like you're.
It's like I see so many peopleman, and I talked to so many
pros in the sport and likepeople make it a job, like they
make it such a grind and it's italmost sucks the fun out of it
a little bit like when I talk topeople they're just so serious,
you know, and it's and yes,it's a serious sport to a degree

(22:19):
, but it's also not so serious,I don't know.
I just really admire and likeyour style with it, where you
just you just like having fun,like you still compete at a
super high level, but it's alsovery fun yeah, I mean it should
be fun, right, like if you'regonna make it your entire
self-worth, I sure hope you'rehaving like a little bit of fun
with it.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, um, um, and yeah, I don't know, I feel like
some people that I got intotrail running with uh, maybe
kind of lost the plot a littlebit and don't have as much fun
with it anymore as they used toand we don't run with each other
as much anymore because of that.
But, um, yeah, everybody's, Iguess, got their own, their own

(23:01):
reason for doing things right,like it's not just about having
fun for some people.
So I get that.
But yeah, for me, I wouldn't bedoing it if I wasn't have, if I
wasn't having fun doing it.
Yeah, there's not much point.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
What's your take on this now?
So, like you came into thescene very early.
Like what was it like withinthe last four years?
So within the last four years,in the salt lake scene, finn
started single track, calebsigns with nike, like all of
these athletes kind of explodeon the scene, you know.
And what's your take on this?
Like, is it just like?
But what are these peoplealways good?

(23:35):
Are they just like?
How long?
I don't know.
I'm just kind of getting yourthoughts on like the salt lake
scene and why and how it'sexploded.
Like what is that?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
uh, there's always been a lot of fast people here.
Just not all of them have alwaysbeen pursuing contracts or
racing and stuff like that.
Like there's so many people outhere, you go on strava segments
around here and like there'llbe so many people you've never
heard of on these like top tens,on, like you know, pretty big
climbs or descents, um, justbecause not everybody really
wants to race, but like there'sa lot of fast people here and it

(24:05):
lends itself to developing fastmountain athletes.
Just being in the Wasatch, wedon't have a lot of terrain like
this in the US, so it's a goodtraining ground for people.
But, yeah, there are alwaysfast people in the trail running
group.
There are always fast people inthe road running groups that
are around and people come andgo.

(24:31):
Some people stop having funwith it and stop running at all,
like once they decide theydon't want to run fast anymore.
But, um, yeah, I guess I metcaleb and finn, both of them
like well before they hadstarted their ventures.
Finn started his podcast maybe ayear after I moved here.
Um, I remember thinking like,especially after he'd started it

(24:53):
, he quit his job like not thatlong after he had started the
podcast and I was like, what'she doing?
Like how's he gonna make anymoney off of this?
Like, are you kidding me?
Um, I personally don't reallylisten to a lot of podcasts, so
I didn't really listen to toomany of his of the episodes
early on and like still don'tlisten to like that many
episodes of his podcast now.
And not because like I don'tlike him or anything or I don't

(25:14):
think his podcast is interesting, it's just not the kind of
media that I typically typicallyconsume.
But uh, yeah, it's been coolseeing what he's been able to do
, like you know, kind of againstsome odds at the beginning,
because I I didn't really seethe vision when he was first
starting it, but he clearly hada big vision and grown into

(25:35):
something pretty big and youknow he's actually found the
time to, you know, get prettyfit on the side of doing the
podcast too, which has beenpretty cool.
Um, and he's put together at acouple of races in the last
couple of years, which has beencool to see.
Because it was funny when hefirst started his podcast he
just he was running less andless.
Like he would talk aboutrunning more, you'd get more

(25:55):
excited about running and then,like he stopped running almost
all together from what most ofus could tell and I definitely
talked, talked a lot of smack onon him for that because, like,
why, why you get like isn't thewhole point so that you can
center your life around running,like don't you want to run more
?
But he's, he's turned it aroundthe last like year or two and,
like you know, found, found somereasons for his own running too

(26:17):
, which I think is pretty cool.
Yeah, um, and yeah, I guesscaleb's always been pretty fast.
I think uh, he's one of thoseguys that has benefited a lot
from uh actually going andtaking uh his performance
seriously.
Um, and he, uh, he really, youknow, exploded on the scene when
he decided to like really startfocusing on certain races and

(26:40):
uh has laid down a lot of goodperformances last couple of
years, um, which has been coolto see.
I feel like the more he's beenracing at a high level, the less
it feels like he and I havebeen running together.
I haven't seen him in twomonths.
I haven't seen him since beforehe won TGC, but he's got very

(27:02):
specific things he wants out ofruns and if I'm just trying to
screw around uh, he doesn'talways want to do that with me,
so understandable dude, why whenyou guys first got into the
sport and I I guess I'mcentering like picking on like
you and caleb, because I justnoticed like the one result I
was looking at was like canyons,100k.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
And then what 2022?
You did that.
You also ran speed goat, youran jfk.
What was your fascination withthe long stuff?
And then getting into the shortstuff, like what got you stoked
on that first?

Speaker 2 (27:34):
um, everybody that I was training with was stoked on
ultras so I just signed up foruh, there were like six of us
seven of us from salt lake thatwere all like sort of trained
together for canyons in 2022 andI got talked into signing up
and, um, I don't know when Ifirst got into trails, it was a
cool challenge to see how, howmuch farther I could go, rather

(27:55):
than like how fast I could go ontrails.
I feel like that's the the mainthing for, like american trail
running media, that that makesit a lot easier to market ultras
is a lot of people who don'tknow what you know, don't know
trail running, don't reallyunderstand, like, how the
terrain affects how fast you run.
Or don't understand like it'sdifficult to run uphill and

(28:18):
downhill like fast.
Like you see these results thatpeople are putting up and
they're running like 10 minutemiles for a eight mile race or
something like that.
You're like that's slow as hell, like these guys aren't
impressive.
But you can wrap your headaround the challenge of like
these guys went a hundred miles.
These guys went a hundred K.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Like I, you know that that's that's like a very
difficult thing in itself, nomatter how slow you're going.
So I guess I was kind ofwrapped up in that also and,
like you know, wanted to docanyons 100k see if I could run
that far.
Um and speak of 50k is mybackyard.
I'm signed up for it again thisyear um I think you'll probably

(28:57):
get it right.
Dude, that's a hard race to nailoh man, yeah, I got kind of
close in 2022 to nailing it.
Um, I think I didn't reallyhydrate well enough, as I tend
to cramp during a lot of myraces, but I was definitely
cramping that day too.
Um, yeah, caleb was trainingfor both that that one and

(29:21):
canyons, uh, with me together.
We placed pretty close to eachother in both of those races too
.
I think I was sixth and he waslike eighth or ninth at speed
goat, and then I was eighth atcanyons and he was ninth.
He was ninth there and wedidn't run a step of either of
those races together.
Or canyons, we ran like thefirst maybe two or three miles

(29:42):
together and I didn't see himthe rest of the day.
And then speed goat, I don'tthink we're gonna step together
um so kind of funny looking back, because we ended up like kind
of close to each other in boththose races but very different
racing strategies.
Especially at that point he'scoming to his own a little bit
more in terms of um, you know,being able to push himself early
in a race.

(30:02):
Uh, back then he would juststart really slow and that's why
I wouldn't see him, because Iwould get out way too hard and
then probably end up fading towhere I ended up.
But uh, we just never quiteyo-yoed back to each other in
either of those races.
That's funny what?

Speaker 1 (30:20):
um, oh man, there's so many things I can ask off of
this, but like, all right, solet's fast forward to 2023.
Then, because I gotta ask you,what?
What flipped the switch?
Was it just wanting to run forteam usa that sent you out to go
do breakneck and soon to p, orlike, because those are
obviously sub ultra races?
Like I'm just kind of curious,like what uh made you make the
switch from ultra to sub ultraon that end in 23?

Speaker 2 (30:41):
um, I wanted to race more and the way, the way I saw
it, like if I was runningshorter races I'd be able to
recover faster and race more.
But yeah, I went out to theeast coast to go race at sunup
and breakneck I wanted to, youknow, run on team yosei.
That was the big goal for thatyear at least.
So after I'd run jfk um in 2022, I just kind of like stepped

(31:04):
away from training hard for amonth or two and then got back
on the grind in like February2023.
That was doing a lot less.
It's a little easier to manageyour time when you're, when you
don't have all the time of theday to run.
Like, if you want to run fast,then you can do speed
development a few days and, like, your recovery days are

(31:26):
inherently going to be a littleshorter.
So, um, that was that was kindof the main reason I got into
sub ultra in 2023.
Um, there were some cool raceseries I wanted to, you know, go
participate fully in, like thecirx series and golden trail
series, um, and it felt like theonly somewhat comparable series

(31:46):
at that point in ultra was utmband I just didn't really have
that much interest in runningout of the races.
So, uh, made sense to try torace a lot and do some sub ultra
stuff, try to get faster atrunning trails, and that would
inherently make you better atrecovering longer.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Anyway, yeah, what?
Uh, all right, so soon to peeand break neck.
Obviously you go and you smashboth of them more or less.
I mean soon to pee vertical.
What'd you get?
Fifth, so you qualified for thevk and then you go and win the
marathon.
Dude, how did you make?
Because you only raced if Iremember corrected in spruck,
you only raced the marathon.
What?
What kept in Innsbruck?
You only raced the marathon.

(32:27):
What kept you from going to dothe VK in Innsbruck as well?

Speaker 2 (32:30):
They were back-to-back days VK was the
first day of World Champs andMarathon was second.
I could have done both.
I think if there was a race onthat schedule that I could
recover well from, it would bethe VK.
But I'd run the VK one day andthen the up-down the next day at

(32:50):
Senepe and just didn't feelgood the second day of that and
I wasn't really training thatmuch to do back-to-back days
like that sense to me to, um,you know, run the vk and then
not be my best self for the, theshort trail, which is one that

(33:12):
I was a little bit more excitedabout competing in anyway.
Um, so I, yeah, I gave it myspot in the vk to allow somebody
else to take it.
And then they originally gave myspot to jim, who was already
signed, who was already going torun the adk also, which was two
days after the vk.
I saw who they gave it to.
I was like, well, that's notwhy I gave it up, like if jim's
gonna ride, I could have goneand done it.

(33:32):
And then jim ended up gettinghurt and not going to world
champs and the spot trickleddown to, I think morgan elliott
ended up running the vk, yeah,um, and he was already out there
for the short trail.
I was like, well, if that wasthe case I maybe could have gone
and run the VK.
But I still feel like Iwouldn't have run as well in the

(33:53):
short trail if I had done theVK.
So that was why I ultimatelydidn't do it and why I'm not
going to try and do the VK shorttrail double this year, because
at Broken Arrow it's VK and 46Kone day after the other.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
So yeah, yeah, and that vk is gonna do that's so
deep.
I mean, we'll talk about thatwhen we get into 2025, but like
I don't know, just feeling likegoing back to back days is
heinous, especially with thelevel of competition that's
gonna be there.
It's gonna be bananas.
Uh, let me ask you this whenyou, when you made the team,
what is it like?
When you make that team like,is it also a little surreal that

(34:26):
your story is intertwined withDan's as well, whereas you guys
knew each other all the way backin high school and then now
you're on Team USA togetheryears later.
Is that weird?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Maybe a little weird, but not that much so.
The way that we had met when wewere in high school was we were
at the Brooks PR Invitational,which was where in high school
was we were at the the brooks prinvitational, which was where,
like top high schoolers in thenation all got invited to go
compete in track meet aftereverybody's state meet was over
and give you a bunch of brooksgear.
They like, have you raisingbrooks singlets that are
different colors?
Like you know, they give youlike two different colors and

(34:58):
everybody's out on the trackraising in brooks.
Um, and it's like all thefastest people are there.
Like uh, I mentioned grantfisher earlier.
Like he was there, he ran thetwo mile.
I think dan ran the two mile.
There too, I ran the mile.
Connor mance was in the mile.
Um, like there were there a lotof like the biggest names in
the sport today were at thatmeet.

(35:19):
Um, so it I guess it made sensethat, like if dan and I were
both going to get into trails,like we'd probably be there, end
up in the same place.
That makes sense, yeah but yeah,we were two of the only people
I think we were the only twopeople that were at that meet
that year that you know ended upfinding our way to the trails.
So I guess.
Yeah, it was kind of funny thatwe both ended up finding our

(35:40):
way there in different ways letme ask you this with now that
you've made I mean, here's thedeal.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Like you, you go to inspruck, you have a great
finish.
I mean, obviously, what are youtop american in marathon
distance?
After that, though, now thatyou're gearing up for 2025 to go
, try to go back to worlds, doyou put pressure on yourself
like to make that team again?

Speaker 2 (36:03):
a little bit.
Um, you know, I'd not there'san expectation on myself that
I'd like to be there.
Um, yeah, it's kind of what.
When I was looking at goals for2024, I was sitting there at
the end of 2023, beginning of2024, trying to think of what I
wanted to focus on and like theonly thing that the the main a

(36:23):
goal race that I could reallycircle on the calendar was 2025
worlds that year.
So last year I was starting outthe year without much of an aim
, trying to figure out what Iwanted to do for the year, but
it was mostly just try to getready to make the team and run
well, worlds in 2025.
So, yeah, I don't know, it's notlike a big pressure thing,

(36:45):
though.
Like I've already kind ofconsidered the options.
Like if I don't make the, theteam, I'm just gonna have that
time blocked off for pto anywayand go do something else cool,
probably in the us, or maybeI'll just go out there anyway
and like have a flight bookedalready and if I don't make the
team, I'll just, you know, gorun all day for like 12 hours a

(37:07):
day and, just you know, boparound pyrenees not a bad deal,
dude yeah, and then you know,get to watch people run, tell
tom hooper when they're racing,just if I don't make it like,
bring me as an alternate, justin case.
That way you get a plane ticketbooked and just hang out uh, I
mean like I would just bebooking my own plane ticket
beforehand and then hoping itwould get reimbursed if, uh, if

(37:29):
slash when I do make the team.
But yeah, I mean it's not theend of the world if I don't make
the team.
Um, it would kind of suck notto achieve that goal, but, um,
the end of the day, I've got alot of other things going for me
anyway.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
So yeah, what are you more excited for soon at P or
going to broken arrow?

Speaker 2 (37:48):
No, broken arrow.
Yeah, um.
Yeah, don't tell Tom Hooperthis, but I'm not really that
excited about son of P and Ihaven't even booked a plane
ticket yet, cause I'm not evensure I want to go.
Um, I was actually just lookingat tickets a couple days ago
and I was trying to figure outhow I could get over there
without using any pto, and itseems like the best way for me
to do that is either it'sprobably flying saturday morning

(38:11):
, the race is on sunday, andthen fly back sunday night, and
that's just gonna be a heinoustravel weekend.
But I haven't booked that thatflight yet.
So, um, yeah, I think it'd befun to be out there.
It's just a lot of travel forsomething that's very close to
my A goal race, which is BrokenArrow.

(38:31):
So I don't know, I'll probablytalk myself into going anyway,
but definitely more excitedabout Broken Arrow at the moment
.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
The fields are going to be crazy and Broken Arrow man
, I think you got it like asolid.
I mean it's going to be superdeep, but like you've had
success there.
I mean you raced the 23K andwent top 10.
Like, didn't you go like a weekafter going to Worlds, like
coming back from Worlds?

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, I think that was the beginning of the end for
me in 2023.
Was coming back from Worlds andtrying to rush into racing
broken arrow.
Um, yeah, I flew back sunday,um, pretty much all day sunday
flying back, um, after I'd racedat worlds.
Um, I remember getting back, itwas late evening.

(39:20):
I went over to a friend's house, had a few beers and then, like
, went to work the next day andI was working 11 hour days
because I was almost out of ptoand um was trying not to use any
to go to broken arrow.
So I worked like 11 hours mondaythrough thursday and then drove
out to tahoe on thursday afterwork, I believe, uh, because my

(39:42):
friend, jacob grant, who I wasdriving with, was running the
46k at broken arrow, so we weredriving out together, um, and we
drove like halfway out, sleptin winnemucca like cowboy camp
next to his car and then keptdriving the next morning, um,
and I was sitting there on mywork laptop like working while
he was driving and we were alsowatching the live stream of the
vk that morning, um, but, yeah,got out there and I got my legs

(40:06):
felt like shit all week, like Iwas figuring the race wasn't
gonna go very well.
They didn't feel good when Iwas warming up the morning of
the race.
I think I rolled my ankle whileI was warming up and like um, I
saw you jogging around theparking lot.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
I was like who is this fucking guy running around?
And I think you were wearinglike a reagan bush 84 shirt or
something like that it's like,oh my god, this is hilarious.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah I was, I was trying to show.
Yeah, I was wearing reagan bush84 at a usa visor, on like red,
white and blue pit vipers, uh,stars and stripes on the shorts
and my socks.
Like I looked like a fool, butuh it was awesome, yeah, I was.
I was having fun, but yeah, thegun went off that day and like
I felt so bad, I think I wentthrough the.

(40:47):
It ended up being a two lap racebecause it was windy and they
didn't want us going over uh,the top of the main course.
So we just went up to the topof kt and did like the 11k loop
twice, which actually didn'teven end up being it was.
It was like 19k total.
It was like way shorter thanadvertised um, but I came
through that first loop and Iwas in like 12th and I was just
like you know, I got passed bylike five guys on the downhill

(41:11):
and I was like, oh, this isn'tgoing well, like this sucks.
And then finn was down thereand he told me that the top guys
were like five minutes in frontof me or something like that.
I was like, well, this sucks.
I guess throw in the towel now.
But I guess I got a second winon the the climb and I ended up
in fourth by the time I got tothe top of the climb but I still
couldn't see mika or chad oreli by the time I got up there.

(41:31):
Um, and then was kind ofbattling town hole and henry
aimand on the on the downhilland ended up getting out
sprinted by henry in the lastlike 100 meters.
Like the second he saw thefinish line, he took off and I'd
been trying to drop him for theentire road section.
We were going downhill for liketwo miles and I put in a surge
like thought I got away from himand I hear him coming back and,

(41:52):
uh, do it again, do it againand never quite got away from
him.
And then he asked for an enemy.
Um, but yeah, that was.
That was definitely thebeginning of the end, because I
was already really tired goinginto that race, um, and then
just didn't stop afterwards.
I figured I could just bike thewhole next week and then,
rather than just taking time offand then getting training

(42:13):
really hard for circ series andgolden trail series, and I just
kind of went downhill the restof the year.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
But uh, yeah, good lessons dude, that's what a
crazy story.
What was it?
I don't want to, I don't likegoing back in time too much, but
like, dude, what was it likebeing like top american in the
uh, like at insbrook, in the um,in the marathon?
Like was that life-changing foryou at all?
Like was it weird.

(42:38):
Like did you have brands andeverybody like reaching out to
you after to congratulate youbecause, like it's a pretty big
deal.
Dude, like, what was that like?

Speaker 2 (42:44):
for you.
Uh, no, I didn't hear from asingle brand after.
Really, no, I think maybe if Ihad finished like on the podium,
it might have been different,but I was 14th, like americans
on the whole didn't do all thatwell in that race.
Yeah, um, I was.
I was pretty proud of what Ihad done in the race but
definitely felt like I maybecould have gotten a little bit

(43:06):
more out of myself if I, youknow, maybe hadn't or maybe had
like hydrated better, fueledbetter, like.
Looking back, I like wasn'treally taking in all that much.
I was thinking it was more thanenough, but I was cramping the
whole second half of the race,just like fighting those off.
I spent I was on camera likestanding there working out a

(43:29):
cramp when I was in like 12th onthe last descent.
They like saw me stop.
Someone took a video of it andsent it to me and I was just
like standing in the middle ofthe trail, not moving on the
final descent.
And then, like a few minuteslater, after I'd started moving,
I actually fell and like sat onthe ground for a couple minutes
Like because I couldn't get up,because my legs were cramping.
They were just like stuck likestraight leg um.

(43:53):
So like, if I could have figuredthose things out, I think I had
a pretty good shot at finishingtop 10, because I was only a
couple minutes out of top 10that day and if I just didn't
spend those couple of minutescramping like, not moving, that
would have been the differenceright there, at least getting
like 12th or 11th, um, but yeah,I think, like, all in all, like

(44:14):
I ran as well as I could havethat day, um, definitely left it
all out there, um, but yeah, I.
That's another one where I feellike I have a little like you
know, a little bit more left toprove.
I think I could do a lot better, so would like to get the
opportunity to do it again.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Oh, hell, yeah, dude.
Yeah, I'm dude.
I think this it's going to beexciting to see, like, what's
going to play out this year.
Besides, uh, sunupian, brokenarrow, what do you think you're
gonna?
And?
Um, what was it?
Speed goat?
What do you think you're goingto put on the schedule for this
year?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
um well, we talked about this last time we talked.
But uh, for this year?
Um well, we talked about thislast time we talked.
But uh, um, tell you, ride,mountain run.
Uh, pretty excited for that one, I I don't know.
At the beginning of the year Itold myself I didn't want to
just go run like all of the mostcompetitive races, I wanted to
go race in some places thatinspired me or just um, you're
not not just pick a race becausethat's where the competition

(45:07):
was.
So that was part of the reasonwhy I ran the napa valley
marathon last month.
It's just because I wanted torun something that wasn't that
competitive but I could still gorun hard at.
And tell you, red mountain run,like I haven't really spent
much time.
I've never spent any time inthe san juans in the summer.
I've been there for a ski triponce oh, dude, you're in for a
treat.
It's insane, yeah, I mean I seepictures every year when people
are out there for Hard Rock orjust out there on their weekends

(45:30):
and it looks amazing.
We got married on there.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I wanted to give myself a reason to get out there
Last July.
Yeah, it's amazing, you're infor such a treat.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, so that'll be fun
.
And then, yeah, World Champs isthe only thing that's for sure
circled on the calendar afterthat.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Nice, dude.
That's a sweet little schedule,man.
It's perfect.
You don't have to travel toocrazy far other than California
is not too far away, butobviously Sunopi is on the other
side of the country, but otherthan that, you know, and worlds,
so this should be fun.
It sounds like a good one, man.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
I'm excited.
I guess I'm also signed up forthe twisted fork 30k, which is a
week before broken arrow andthat that well that that one.
Again.
It's like it's a week beforethe like my a race, so I'm not
really sure, but I mean it wouldbe fun to be out there as long
as I don't, you know, totallykill myself trying to run really
hard I think you know could bea good.

(46:28):
Last little long run.
Tune up, it's not like it's alot of vert.
Should take less than two hoursand I've raced pretty well
running to like racing two hoursone weekend and then racing
something similar the nextweekend.
So I think I can manage it.
I just have to be smart aboutit if I end up doing it that's
fair.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
that's fair.
Yeah, I have a couple buddiesgoing out to do it.
Like I'm like man, I don't know, it's just like where it falls
in the scheduling.
Like there's just no way like Icould fit something like that
in there for you, Cause we justI'm doing all the Cirque series
races this summer and then we'llprobably be at soon to be as
well, so I'm just like there'sexactly.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
That's the only reason finn was able to talk me
into signing up dude, what I'mso curious?

Speaker 1 (47:11):
because I'm guessing you self-coach yourself.
Like what does your traininglook?
Like man, like especially forsub-ultra races.
Like do you still hit the trackfor speed workouts, or like no,
do you just play in themountains?
Like what do you do?

Speaker 2 (47:26):
uh, that answer is varied a lot over the last few
years.
Um, 2022, I hardly, you know,ran any like intense workouts at
all, like, especially if I wasrunning like training for 100k,
like just go, spend a lot oftime on your feet.
Um, you know, train for like amountainous 50k, just get a lot
of burden, spend a lot of timeon your feet.
I was doing more marathontraining for jfk that year and I

(47:50):
was running with some moreserious marathoners in salt lake
who, like one of them, went onto run 217, uh, not too long
after that, which was kind ofvalidating for me getting
dropped by him the whole time Iwas running, or, uh, training
for jfk, I was just I would runa few miles before we started
our workouts or our long runs,just just do a little bit more
volume than him, but wasn'treally keeping up in a lot of

(48:14):
the workouts.
But 2023, I was trying to workout a couple times a week, or
work out once a week and thenrace once a week and just kind
of digging myself deeper in ahole all the time.
I think the balance I foundtowards the end of last year was
uh, you know, run, run hardwhen, uh, or put in a hard
effort when I'm like able to,but don't force it.

(48:37):
So, um, yeah, since I ran napavalley marathon a little over a
month ago, I haven't run anyworkouts, just been trying to
build up volume and I'll do somemore intense efforts before, uh
, broken arrow.
But I'm in no rush, like I'vekind of realized, especially
this year.
Like I had, um, I had to go backto the marathon that I ran.

(48:58):
Like I really only had like agood four weeks leading into
that where I was like actuallymotivated to run workouts and I
was running one workout a weekand then a long run, and then
sometimes the long run wouldhave like a little bit of
intensity in it.
But like I had four weeks thatwere over 80 miles, um, I wasn't
even running over 10, 10 hoursthose weeks and like wasn't

(49:20):
skiing as much as I normallywould during during the winter,
but just kind of stumbled intofitness and ended up running 215
and um, just a good reminder tolike I don't need to put in a
bunch of volume, put in muchintensity, like put in all this
work months out and then get fittoo early for a race.
So, um, yeah, right now I'mjust trying to make sure I stay

(49:41):
backed off and not not overdo it, because I definitely have a
tendency to do that Just put toomuch work in and then go into
the race tired.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Smart Dude, you far exceeded your own expectations,
for the marathon too.
2.15 is smoking fast.
What was your expectation forit?
I remember you telling me, andit was way off of what you
actually ran, which is crazy.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
When I signed up for it I said my goal time was 2.23.
I remember they they would.
They would have given you afree entry if you would run
under 227 before and I haven'trun, or before that I hadn't run
under 227 for a marathon.
So I didn't try and like spinmy trail results to be like, hey
, you should give me a freeentry.
It was just like I'll just payfor this um, and I didn't really

(50:28):
think I'd be motivated to trainthat hard.
So I was like, yeah, 223, likeaveraging 530 per mile sounds
kind of hard.
Um, I'll just put that as mygoal time.
And then I was training atabout that pace for most of my
most of my like training,leading into that um one of my
key workouts.
I think I averaged like 525 permile for three by three mile

(50:51):
and like felt strong doing that.
But I didn't really feel like Icould have gone any faster.
But, um, yeah, two weeks outfrom the marathon I like I had
skied a 10 000 foot day onsaturday and then on sunday I
was getting out to ski with afriend and we were gonna go ski
pretty much all day and then wegot to the top of our first run
I noticed I didn't have my probewith me.
So we just turned around andskied back because I had lost my

(51:14):
probe the day before andactually his girlfriend ended up
finding it in the place wherewe were skiing a few days later.
So I didn't have to buy a newone, which was pretty cool.
But I got home and it was like8.30 in the morning I was like 8

(51:35):
30 in the morning.
I was like, well, I guess I'llgo for a long run now and uh,
ended up running 20 miles wherelike I didn't start that fast
but I did a few like hard milesin the middle of it and uh,
finished out just likecontinuing to run like 5 45s and
I averaged like 550 per milefor 20 miles and like felt
really good during it.
This was two weeks out from themarathon.
I was like, oh, maybe I can'trun a little faster than I
thought.
Felt really good during it.
This was two weeks out from themarathon.
I was like, yeah, maybe I can'trun a little faster than I
thought.
Um bought some super shoes andI think those made a big
difference too.
Um, but even the morning of therace I said best case.

(51:57):
I told my girlfriend best casescenario I run 217 when she was
trying to figure out when to beat the finish line.
I was staying on the start line.
I had like a a half liter softflask in one hand and I was
wearing a belt with a few gelsand like another half liter soft
flask just sitting in the beltlike bouncing around, and uh,
the guys that were staying onthe front of the line were kind
of looking at me like this guy'sdeal yeah, so yeah I carried a

(52:23):
liter water from the start or aliter of uh, I guess drink mix
from the start.
I had like 90 grams of carbs ineach bottle, um, and, like you
know, most most road marathonerswouldn't do that.
Like I was talking with afriend that was running the half
the the night before and shewas like you're just gonna carry
that the whole way, like haveyou done that running fast
before?
And I was like, yeah, likeevery like hard training run I

(52:45):
did, I would carry a bottle,like that way I'd keep myself
fueled during the run.
It's not like it's an extrapound about to like for each
half liter.
It's like really not that muchweight, especially for me.
Like I haven't weighed myselfin a long time but I'm probably
around 170 pounds, so likewhat's two extra pounds?
Yeah, um, but yeah, um, I guessyeah, ended up exceeding the

(53:09):
expectations and uh, ended endedup feeling pretty good that day
.
But recovery was a little rough.
I was I was walking kind ofkind of funny for a few days.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Did you have fun in California too, after or?

Speaker 2 (53:30):
uh, the race was on a sunday and I had to be at work
on monday, but, yeah, I got wine.
I got wine tasting the daybefore the race.
I flew in saturday, uh, drovemy girlfriend through berkeley,
uh, just kind of like showed offa few of my favorite places
there, and then we went over tonapa and we went wine tasting
and, I guess you know, went tothe expo, picked up it, went to
sleep that night and then wentand tasted where we went to

(53:51):
brunch afterwards and then, uh,drank a bottle of wine at
another place in napa beforehaving to drive back and then
barely made our flight.
But uh, yeah, had some fun, butit was a quick weekend.
I remember I had won 12 bottlesof wine, plus like the big
magnum uh, it's actually sittingright over there like a big
three liter bottle of wine and Iwas trying to figure out how to

(54:12):
get it back.
And one of my friends wasdriving to salt lake city from
san francisco, um, a few daysafter the marathon.
So I dropped my drop, all mywine, off at his house, like on
the way to the airport when wewere passing through san
francisco.
Um, just like a real quick drop, because my flight was like an
hour and 20 minutes after I hadbeen there, so just like oh hey,
see you in a few days.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Like nice, nice.
Do you think, uh, now that youran so damn fast, like, do you
think you might pursue it likean oqt?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
uh, try to try to get in the qualifier for uh,
olympic trials I haven't seenany news on what the uh, a, what
the qualifying window is or, b,what the standard is, yet, um,
I mean, if they, if they'retrying to keep the field size
about the same, then thestandard shouldn't change that
much from prior cycles, in whichcase, like, yeah, I could you
know train to go run another one, kind of like to do boston next

(55:05):
year anyway.
So, yeah, um, be cool to uh havethe chance to run at the trials
if I, you know, desire to in2028.
But, um, I don't know, that'snot like.
If that was something that Ireally had valued, I probably
would have tried to do it in2024 and maybe even in 2020.

(55:26):
But uh, yeah, maybe, maybe myvalues will be a little
different for the 2028 cycle,especially now that I've gone
and uh run faster than theolympic trials qualifying time
from past cycles, like, as longas it's not too much faster, it
doesn't seem unattainable,definitely could be a goal.
But I mean, if they make thestandard like 210 or something

(55:46):
like that and they want to keepthis field size really small,
then it'll start seeming alittle unattainable.
It's like, you know, I could gotry and run fast, but I'm not
going to expect myself to.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Yeah, dude, 210 is so fast, jesus christ.
Um, yeah, dude.
And the other thing too is likeit's got to get you stoked.
You know it's like I don't knowdifferent.
People are different.
Like for me, I just reallyenjoy being.
I don't know.
Something about killingyourself up a mountain and
throwing yourself off of it isreally fun.
But like trying to run reallyhard, really fast on a track is
like you got to be inspired forit, or on the road, I don't know

(56:18):
.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
It's like a different , just a different vibe,
different want you know, yeah,you end up in a lot more
beautiful places in the trainingwith trails.
Like it just doesn't feel liketraining that often, cause
you're just like, oh, I'mrunning up a mountain, like yeah
, gotta get back down.
Um, you know, I get to get upto the top and see these
incredible views.
I get to go through really coolterrain on the way there.

(56:39):
Um, train on the roads and thetrack.
Like you know, I guess I I'llbe talking shit a little bit
here, but like everybody that Iknow that's still pursuing the
road and track life, like youknow, their straws are so boring
and they're always doing thesame loops and like a lot of
their long runs are like fourmile loops repeated six times.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Like right on the track, you just run in a circle
around the same place, like itisn't as fun and like people
still find joy out of it, butlike it inherently isn't as fun.
It's like hiking around on thetrails and then running downhill
.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Dude, it's funny you say that Like I'm on a speed
block now.
It's like a quick four or fiveweek speed block and I did a
track workout on what was itSaturday, and it's like right at

(57:33):
the base of Pikes Peak inManitou Springs and you like
look up and you can every everytime I dude, I was like 12 miles
of just like running in afreaking oval.
It was driving me crazy.
But like you look up and yousee the peak and it's like all
right, this, this is why you doit is to get fast and fit for
something like that.
Like it makes sense.
But like man, I don't know how,like people like run on the
track, like like full time orall the time, because it does,
it's, it's pretty rough yeah, Imean, I used to do it like I.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
I understand the life to an extent.
But you you have to.
You have to enjoy thecompetition and you have to
enjoy.
You know the little minimalimprovements you make um and
like enjoy, you know running twoseconds faster in the 5k.
Or like beating somebody youhaven't before in you know some

(58:12):
distance that you haven't beatenthem before, like you just find
joy in slightly differentthings and like people find joy
in those things in the trailstoo.
But there's also just it's alot easier to find joy in all of
it when you're in thesebeautiful places all the time
yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
So being a sub four minute miler, do you ever like,
is that a little weird for you?
Like because that's so fuckingfast, like that's on another
level of speed.
Do you like?
I know in the trail world wehold that metric to such a high
extent like when peopleintroduce you they'll be like
you know, you and matt danielsand people like that all sub
four minute miler.
But do you like, does it reallyregister in your head like, oh

(58:48):
yeah, that's, that's insanelyfast.
Like what does that?
What does that feel like to you?

Speaker 2 (58:53):
uh, it felt a lot more insanely fast when I did it
than it does now.
Um, I feel like, yeah, it wasnine years ago when when I broke
four in the mile and like backthen like think people were
already getting faster, like thencaa was already getting
significantly faster than it hadbeen before, and I think I was
like 33rd in the mile and likeback then like think people were
already getting faster, likethe ncaa was already getting
significantly faster than it hadbeen before and I think I was

(59:13):
like 33rd in the ncaa that year.
So, like you know already,there's like 32 guys that are
faster than me just in that likesmall, not really small, but in
that group of competition, likenot including all the the pros
that are post-collegiate or likenever were in the collegiate
system.
So like it was fast.
It's this barrier thateverybody holds in this high
regard and like seemedimpossible for a long time

(59:36):
before andrew banister did itand like it was really fast and
I was like that was that was oneof the happier moments of my
life was after I had uh brokenfour.
I remember like I ran an 845minutes later and like won the
slow heat at our conferencechampionships and, like you know
, was cooling down after that,just like you know, on a high,

(59:57):
like it was so cool.
But I feel like it kind of fadesas, like time goes on and like
you kind of start seeing allthese other people also doing it
, that you're like or likerunning faster than I had run
and it's like, oh, like I didn'teven think this guy was that
fast and now he's running.
You know three, 57 or something.
Like you know three, 59 doesn'treally seem all that impressive

(01:00:21):
anymore.
Um, so I feel like you know, astime goes on, you're just like
not going to be quite asimpressed by your own
achievements but like, yeah,that's a fun.
I still leave that on my, myresume for like professional
jobs.
Like, yeah, so sub four in themile, just like it's a talking
point.
Like I, I got my original, myfirst full-time job I got

(01:00:42):
because I put that on my resume.
Like the internship I worked atNorthrop Grumman.
The hiring manager saw that onmy resume and only wanted to
hire or only wanted to interviewme because he wanted to talk
about tracking and ask me like asingle technical question and
just like, gave me theinternship and then I got a job
because of that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
So, um, you know, definitely a cool talking point
well, it's just crazy to me it'skind of crazy too because it's
like outside of like our crazysport, like it's just rarefied
air you will outside of thesport.
You'll never meet anotherperson that's ever done that,
other than people that have, youknow, in running in general.
Like it's just meaning, likeit's one percent of the one
percent of the one percent, veryfew.

(01:01:21):
So yeah I would leave it on theresume too, because it's a good
talking point.
Uh, dude, as we wind down, I dowant to get back into golden
trail series.
I didn't, I know, in our lastpod we did, we kind of got into
it, and this time around wedidn't really get too much into
it.
Last season, obviously youraised a bunch, um, obviously
had a great finish at mammoth.
You know you were at tatra butkind of you like ripped your leg

(01:01:43):
, didn't you like cut yourselfor something just before that
mountain biking.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Yeah, um, yeah, beginning of August, which was
it was like eight days out fromSears and all, which was like
that was my big goal race lastyear, like that was the one that
I really wanted to train forand do well at, was Sears and
all.
And uh, yeah, it was eight daysout.
I was going for a mountain bikeride.
I was like.
I was like I'm doing a goodthing here, I'm not going to run

(01:02:08):
today, I'm not going to pushmyself too hard, I'm just going
to go for a fun mountain bikeride with my buddy.
And we started it was actuallyon the course for the 30K at
Twisted Fork.
We were on the Flying Dog Trailand it was right at the top of
the descent.
I just rode off the trail andkind of took a tumble, ended up
in a bush and like stood up andnothing really hurt and I looked

(01:02:30):
down at my knee and I couldjust see my entire kneecap.
So I got, I got 12 stitches onmy knee and wasn't able to run
Sears and all.
But I had just quit my job so Icould go out to Europe for a
whole month and like race Searsand all, race Tatra, and then
just like do whatever I feltlike for another two weeks.
Um, so I went out anyway and,like it was probably the most

(01:02:50):
painful plane ride I'll ever beon, was sitting there, like
having to take a little bit ofAdvil like every four hours
because my knee was throbbing sobad and I couldn't bend my
knees, I couldn't get into myoriginal seat, so they put me at
the front of the bulkhead so Icould like stretch my knee out
and I had my own row, which wasreally nice, you know, grateful,

(01:03:11):
and I had my own row, which wasreally nice, grateful I was
able to do that.
But, yeah, I was out there anddidn't race Sears at all, handed
bottles to people instead andalmost missed that because they
closed the road for the race,because the race starts, it
crosses over the road right atthe beginning, and so they
closed the road for like an hourand they've got multiple waves
of this race like a, like amajor marathon, um.

(01:03:32):
So I got stuck behind theclosure and I wasn't able to get
up to, uh, chandelier, where wewere handing out bottles, until
, like, killian ran by as I wasgetting up there, um, and I was
up there to hand out, uh, no,williams and kieran nays bottles
and like I had to text thembefore the race started like hey
, I might not be there.
I'm really sorry because I hadlike dropped them off at the

(01:03:55):
start line and then, like theywere expecting me to have their
bottles up there but ended upgetting there, got them their
bottles the following weekend atTatra I was hopeful I'd be able
to race.
I cut my own stitches out of myknee because none of the
doctors there were going to.
Like all the doctor's officeswere closed for national holiday
and they just wouldn't do itfor me.
And like nobody had scissors, Ihad to like walk around to so

(01:04:18):
many different pharmacies beforeI finally found some scissors
to cut them with Um, but yeah, Iwasn't gonna be able to raise
that day.
I remember like limping over tothe like 11 K aid station where
they ended up stopping the womenbecause the storm was raging
too hard and they didn't wantpeople going up to the Ridge,
and like thinking like, yeah,there's no way I'd be able to be
racing right now.

(01:04:38):
I was like running seven minutemiles on like the flat and like
that was about as fast as Icould go and then they ended up
canceling the race anyway and wehad a real nice time afterwards
.
It was one of the betterparties I've ever been to.
I think partially becauseeverybody was so pent up, like
people were ready to race andthen, just like you know, didn't

(01:04:58):
get really tired during the day, so they had all this energy to
get out.
At the party afterwards they hadlike an outdoor DJ.
It was raining while we were um, just like in the mud, like
dancing around to like all yourfavorite songs from like 2008,
2010.
We were like passing aroundthis, like lemon vodka We'd
gotten a dinner and like Elezinewas out there, like dancing in

(01:05:19):
the middle of the circle andlike taking a little pull from
the lemon vodka.
It was a fun time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
That's hilarious.
Dude Elezine parties.
I didn't realize that.
That's hilarious A usin parties.
I didn't realize that that'shilarious a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
You gotta, you gotta, coax him into it.
He's uh, he's, methodical aboutit, but yeah, he doesn't.
He doesn't just not come out tothe party.
He at least shows up and he'llbe in his, like you know,
traditional moroccan garb andlike we'll dance for a little
while does he speak english?

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
like well, have a conversation, he speaks.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
He speaks eight languages what, oh my god?
yeah this guy's interesting yeah, he well, I, I know a decent
amount about him because heloves trying to hang out with
the americans at all thesegolden trail races.
So, like I've I've been in,like you know, multiple hour
conversations with him, um, butyeah, he speaks.
He speaks eight languages, likefrench is probably his best

(01:06:12):
language, I think is what he wastelling us.
He speaks English.
I think he speaks Spanish.
I think he said he spoke alittle bit of Swahili
Interesting.
But yeah, he started listingthem all out and I forgot most
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
That's crazy.
Is he full-time in Morocco, oris he like half-time in Morocco,
half-time in Europe?
How does he?

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I think he spends most of his time in Morocco, but
he also spends a lot of time inSwitzerland.
There's an area where I guesshe gets paid by the tourism
department or something, becausehe he posts about that area
pretty frequently like, yeah,this is where I come for
altitude training, and then liketags the tourism department for
I forget what the area wascalled, but not a bad gig yep,

(01:07:01):
that's what happens when you'refast like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
That's right, yeah, dude's.
On another level, holy shit,what, um I mean so?
So what I was trying to get outwith getting you to tell the
story was like this story ofalmost like redemption Cause you
came back and then absolutelysmashed it at mammoth.
Maybe talk about like that raceand how it unfolded for you and
came out pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Yeah, um, I think the race I had at mammoth was a
result of actually having takensome rest time when I um I was I
was probably training too hard.
Before that.
I definitely was like lookingback, I like you were asking
about if I do speed sessions ornot, and like I was doing flat

(01:07:44):
speed sessions leading into csand all and then also trying to
do a bunch of vert.
Um, so a lot, a lot of my speedsessions would be like I'd go
run like a not I wouldn't runlike a hard vk, but I'd run up a
vk and then like come back downand then do some flat intervals
as fast as I could and like Iwasn't taking any easy days,
like my easy days were like Iwas easier effort, but I'd be up

(01:08:05):
for like three hours just likebushwhacking and get like 5000
feet of vert and like you're notreally recovering when you're
not really giving yourself somelike days off or like easier
days.
So I was pretty tired when Idid fall and hurt myself, uh.
So I think having to take a fewweeks backed off was really

(01:08:25):
good for me and then, since I'dquit my job, I was able to
recover pretty well, like inbetween bigger runs that I was
doing.
After I was able to startrunning again, um, you know, I
was able to sleep more and uh,not stress out as much not that
I was really stressing that muchat work, but it's just
stressful getting yourself toand from like a you know big boy
corporate job sometimes.

(01:08:46):
Um and yeah went and raced, uh,headlands and like it didn't go
super well but it went wellenough.
I was 15th there and like, um,yeah, at that point I was
looking at like trying to getinto the golden trail world
series final and I figured if Ifinished 15th in three races

(01:09:09):
that would be enough to get methere.
And I finished 15th in japanand then I finished 15th at um
headlands.
I was like, okay, like, yeah,reasonable to assume I could
probably finish 15th.
Mammoth um, yeah, just took aeasy week.
I was staying in mammoth thewhole, the whole week beforehand
and did some cool runs, exploresome new places.
Try not to go too far.

(01:09:30):
Um went and ran the race andlike just felt inexplicably good
when we were warming up.
And then when the race startedand um, yeah, found myself in
fifth for most of it and thendealt with some cramping towards
the end, which I seem to do inalmost every race I run.
Uh, so faded back to seventh.
Uh, when the italians caught me,daniel and marco and it was

(01:09:52):
kind of funny too, because, uh,me and marco and sam hendry were
kind of fabricating a littlerivalry or at least I was
fabricating the rivalry with Samand then with Marco
individually and we had finished14th, 15th and 16th at at
Headlands the week beforeMammoth, and Sam was 14th, I was

(01:10:12):
15th, marco was 16th.
And then, you know, as I'mgetting close to the end of the
race at Mammoth, like Danielpasses me and then I hear this
guy just like grunting behind me.
It's like he's, he's I.
I hear him, he's clearly gonnapass me because he's like
running me down, like the gruntsare getting closer and closer.
But, um, I turn when he getsnext to me and it's marco and I

(01:10:33):
was like damn, you're flyingdude, gave him a high five and
then, like tried to latch onwhen he went by me, but I like
wasn't really able to bend mylegs because I was cramping.
I'm just kind of like runningstraight leg the rest of the way
.
Um, but yeah, it was reallycool to finish.
Uh, like, yeah, he finished six, I finished seventh.
It was really cool to finishthat close to each other, like
we were about 40 seconds apartin both races, which was pretty

(01:10:53):
funny.
That's amazing, but yeah dudewhat.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
And then you get, you go to the final and you become
like I don't want to say a meme,but like this, the video of you
cramping going down.
That looked so painful, dude itlooked I guess I've had cramps
like that before and that lookedexcruciating.
Like going down like a muddyhill trying to straighten your
leg, like maybe talk about thatand provide some commentary yeah

(01:11:21):
, uh, the race had been goingpretty well until I don't know
five minutes before that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Um, uh, everybody was tired from the, the prologue
that we do at, uh, golden trailfinal.
Um, so like it wasn't anydifferent for me.
I was also tired backed offduring the first climb and like,
and I probably I probably hadthe top of the first big climb
in like 15th or so.
Um, it was just kind of likelatching on to people on the

(01:11:50):
downhill, trying not to lose toomuch ground.
Um, and I was like runningreally well at the, the second
big climb, which was, I guess,the last big climb there's
really only two big ones Um, andright when we got to the steep
part at the top of it where wewere going up something similar
to where that video was, it'slike a similar pitch, just like

(01:12:10):
a 40% grass Hill um, in the mud,I was I don't know maybe in
like 14th at that point and Ilooked up I could see a lot of
the top 10 and I was like, okay,cool, right where I want to be,
I'm going to like torch thisclimb and then like keep
momentum on the downhill.
That was kind of like the raceplan beforehand and everything

(01:12:32):
just fell apart.
The second we hit that steepclimb.
Like I started going backwards.
I hit the top of the climb andI could feel some cramps coming
on, like my arms were startingto cramp, which I knew that my
legs were going to cramp prettysoon, if I like didn't manage it
and uh, the downhill startedlike not that steep, so you're
just like flying down this likesix percent grade or something,

(01:12:56):
um, and I can like usuallymanage the cramps on a grade
like that, but like once it getssteep, that's when it gets bad.
Um, and right, when it pitcheddown, um, underneath the ski
lift and like we were going downthis, you know, 35, 40% grade,
uh, I made one little misstep, Ilike kind of tripped on a piece
of grass and then, uh, the, thecramps came and I sat down and

(01:13:18):
you can see in the video I'mjust like straight leg, like
hold my leg, trying to like getit to move again and I like
stand back up because it's likefrustrating you can't hear in
the video because I put likemusic over it but, like you know
, just like screaming infrustration.
It's not like because it's pain, like it is painful, but I'm
not screaming from the pain.
I'm screaming because it's justlike.
This is so stupid.
Like, uh, yeah, marcin Kubicawent by me as I was sitting

(01:13:39):
there on the ground like in thevideo, and then, uh, I ended up
cramping, like I managed that,got up and then ended up
cramping again like not muchlater and, uh, miguel Corbera
passed by me while I was likesitting on the ground after the
video was over and like I'velost two places just because I
was sitting there cramping.
So it was frustrating, but itis really funny and I'm really

(01:14:00):
happy that somebody finally cutit on video, because that's
happened to me quite a few timesduring races and like none of
my Salt Lake friends likeunderstood what I was talking
about when I said the cramps gotto me during during races.
Like there's like oh, he waslike getting a side stitch or
something and then complainingabout it.
Like no, I just like can't move, um yeah, like I'm stuck.

(01:14:24):
Um, so that it was.
Yeah, it was real funny thatsomeone caught it on video and
then, like at the party thatnight, like it was a romanian
guy, he like walked over to me,he's like, hey, I got this video
of you and he showed it to meand the air dropped it to me and
I spent the whole party likerunning around showing people
the video because we thought itwas funny and like I was just
laughing the entire night likeat myself.
Um, so, yeah, it was, it wasfunny.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Hope if that happens again, someone catches on video
like I said, I felt, I felt, soI felt for you, man, because
I've had that happen to me onthe incline a couple times, like
usually it's funny like youjust have to be super fatigued
on an extremely like steep likearea I don't know what it is,
but yeah, I've had it happen acouple times where the muscle
fire.
I can, like look down at mycalf and see the muscle fibers

(01:15:09):
like firing.
Oh yeah, it's, it's disgusting,dude, um yeah, and kind of
painful, um.
So yeah, dude, um.
Let's, let's transition.
I want to start getting intosome uh like closing, maybe some
closing uh comments.
I'm very curious to see whoinspires you yeah, um, try to

(01:15:29):
remember.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Last time I told you, uh, I guess my answer is yeah,
it's still gonna be the same.
Um, just in like the the trailrunning world, at least in my
immediate community in Salt LakeCity, I feel like Rachel Drake
is probably one of the moreinspiring people around here.
She's in residency, she's afull-time mom and also really

(01:15:54):
fast across really any distanceshe decides to run really fast
across really any distance shedecides to run.
Like, um, she's one of thosepeople that kind of proves that
you don't need to spend, youknow, 30 hours a week training
to be fast.
Like you know, just do what youcan in the time that you have
and, um, you can be really goodat all these things.
Like you know, she's in one ofthe hardest professions and in

(01:16:18):
the the hardest part of likelearning to do that hard
profession, um, and is also anincredible mom and like runs at
a high level.
Like, yeah, really does it alland always with a smile on her
face.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Like she's maybe the most positive person I know such
a nice human like she's, so Imet to meet her at cirque series
alta uh this past year andtalked to her for a couple
minutes and I was just likeblown away, just like sincerity,
super kind yeah, yeah, her andtyler is also her husband.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Like, uh, they they're both incredibly nice
people and like also tyler alsovery inspiring, but he doesn't
have the residency aspect.
So that's why rachel takes thecake in that couple, in that uh
comparison, I guess that's fair.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
That's fair.
Now.
I think it's a great selectionand sorry for the redundant
question.
I got one more redundantquestion for you.
Uh, what's your walkout songyou listen into?
What are you listening tobefore a hard effort or like a
workout or something?

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
oh, that that's constantly changing.
Hey, I feel like I might bedifferent.
Last time you asked me, I thinkI said it was like a surf rock
song.
Yeah, um, I don't know.
I was during, uh, during thethe marathon build that I was
doing.
It was actually a lot of likenaked and famous and like grimes
that I was listening to.
If I was like training bymyself and I decided to wear

(01:17:37):
headphones.
I like don't usually listen tomusic while I'm running, but
there were a couple of timeswhere I decided to throw some
headphones on and like, um, wejust throw on like a naked and
famous album and then like agrimes album and like just kind
of space out.
It was not like a maincharacter like I'm I'm super
badass kind of moment, but justlike it helps me focus on like

(01:17:58):
what I'm doing at the moment.
But if I had to pick like awalkout song that I want
everybody else to hear, um, Idon't know, I think last time I
told you six pack and cigarettesby alex sucks with my walkout
song, um, just like that's.
That's what I listened to tohype myself up before I ran the
golden trail.
Final, um, there's just like a,it's a, it's a fun song.

(01:18:20):
Like it comes, comes back on inmy head in the middle of a race
, like, uh, you know, get asmile on my face and like, yeah,
start having fun again if Iwasn't so, um, that's, that's
kind of what I'm looking for,more so than like getting hyped
up especially for a trail race,like even the sub ultra stuff.
Like it's usually a two-hourrace, you've got a long time to

(01:18:42):
build up some adrenaline duringthe race.
You don't need to be all ampedup on the start line.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
It's true.
That's a good point.
Are you a big sports guy?
Do you follow any other sports?

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
A little bit If you're going to ask about the
NCAA tournament.
I did not watch any of marchmadness this year.
I think it's the first time Ihaven't watched any basketball
all right, my wife's like superinto we watched.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
I watched a lot of it , more than I probably wanted to
, but it wasn't too bad.
But like baseball, basketball,football, any of that stuff, or
nah, yeah, I watch sometimes,but I don't follow super closely
.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
I don't like religiously.
Uh, follow a team.
I don't say I wouldn't say Ihave a team, but we followed it
a lot more when I actuallyplayed those sports.
Yeah, it's true, fair enoughall right, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Last question, pretty sure last time I asked you
about the aliens with northropgrumman.
I don't know immediately what Ithink of.
Do you believe in aliens, bro,like what's?
What's your take on that?

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Oh yeah, Infinite universe.
There's gotta be something outthere, you know and it's not
necessarily there.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
They're like yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
I mean not necessarily their, their higher
intelligence than us, but somesort of life out there.
Um, and yeah, of course, likeyou know, don't tell anybody
this.
But uh, you know we have aliensat at the North of Grumman site
and Roy that, uh, you know I'mletting out a lot of secrets
right now so I could probablyget killed if you you let people

(01:20:09):
know about this.
But uh, yeah, tap each other upevery time I went into the
office.
They're a little sad that I'mnot there anymore because
they're kind of stuck in thelittle closed area.
But yeah, yeah, my boy, steve,steve the alien, he's a real one
.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Oh man, dude Garrett, thank you so much for coming on
the podcast, dude.
Actually, thanks for coming tothe podcast twice.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
We'll probably do this again at some point,
obviously not the sameconversation, but we'll.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
We'll have you on for pre-race interviews for soon to
be in broken arrow, butappreciate it, man.
Thank you so much.
All right, thanks for having me.
Yeah, bro, thanks, what'd youguys think?
Oh, man, what a fun episode.
Want to thank garrett so muchfor coming on the podcast.
Uh, you know what man?
I just really appreciate his,the way he looks at the sport,
um, and just the.
You know, he just likes to havefun, man, he wants to enjoy.
It's not, you know, not take itas super serious as some people
do and still operates in anextremely high level.

(01:21:04):
Um is extremely talented, human, um, as far as you know the
running scene goes.
So I really want to thank garyfor coming on.
Uh, inspiring guy and uhexcited for what his future
holds.
You know, wouldn't be surprisedto see him back on you know's
team racing in the Pyrenees thisyear.
It would be pretty fun to seehim back there.
So, guys, before you get going,hop on Instagram.

(01:21:26):
You can find Garrett onInstagram at GarrettTheParrots96
.
I almost said 69.
That would have been too funny.
But yeah, garretttheparrots96.
Give him a follow, send himsome DMs, let him know what you
thought about the episode andsend him some words of
encouragement.
He's got some big races comingup in June, both at Tsunope and
Broken Arrow.

(01:21:46):
But yeah, I think that's all Igot for you guys today.
If you enjoyed this episode,please give us a 5-star rating
and review on wherever you guysconsume your podcast, whether
that be Spotify, apple orYouTube.
And yeah, last but not least,some cool stuff coming out of
the pike from ultimate direction.
This episode and the podcast isactually brought to you by
ultimate direction.

(01:22:07):
Use code steep stuff pod for25% off.
Some good stuff coming out.
Like I said, the officialofficial I just got official
word that the official officialunveiling of the race and ultra
vast that I've been talkingabout for the last two months
and probably shouldn't have umis going to be dropping fully on
the site this upcoming week orover the next two weeks.
Um, use code steep stuff pod.

(01:22:28):
Um, like I said, there's gonna.
They come out in two beautifulcolor ways this like really
aesthetic white and um.
This like onyx and green.
Um, which are two beautifulcolors.
Yeah, they're stretchy, they'relike, they're very dynamic.
They're just completelydifferent vests than anything
we've made before, so justreally excited for the world to
see those.
I think Ultimate Directionreally nailed it.

(01:22:49):
Their designers kind of killedit with these and excited to see
what you guys think.
So before you get going, hop on.
Ultimate directioncom Doesn'tmatter if you need a vest, we
also carry belts.
We got soft flasks, you name it.
Use code steep stuff pod for25% off.
Have a great rest of your week,guys.
More to come, thanks, thank you.

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