#87 - Jazmine Lowther - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys an episode today with noneother than Ms Jasmine Louther.
Super fun episode, reallyexciting one.
You know Jasmine's mostly wellknown for the ultra distances,
so we had a lot of talk betweenultra and sub ultra.
We chatted about the Canions100K, which she'll be going back

(00:21):
to being a former champion,where she got her first golden
ticket to western states, um,and kind of cemented her name in
the sport as one of the topfemales in the sport.
We talked about the directionof the sport.
We talked about racing.
We talked about utmb um, youknow, we talked about coaching,
coaching theory and alldifferent fun things with that
what it's like living insquamish.
We talked about the harddecision to leave the north face

(00:43):
athlete team and join Arc'teryxthis past year, which was
really cool.
We got into some of Arc'teryx'sshoe lineups and just kind of
the team that they've, overall,shaped for 2025.
And it's pretty rad.
So really fun conversation.
I really want to thank Jasmineso much for coming on the
podcast.
So, without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
It's time.

(01:12):
We'll see you next time.

(02:01):
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(03:07):
think.
Jasmine Louther, welcome to thesteep stuff podcast.
How are you?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Hey, thank you so much.
I'm super stoked to be here.
Yeah, it's another rainy day inSquamish British Columbia right
now, but I'm, I'm, uh, we'regetting through it.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I'm so excited to have a chat.
I mean, some new photos poppedup not too long ago I think it
was Connor Berksmith that shotthem from you with this
transition into Arc'teryx tojoining the global Arc'teryx
team, which is pretty awesome.
So I was like man, you justjoined a new team, You're
training right out of Squamish.
Right now it's a greatopportunity to have a
conversation.
So that's why I reached out,and right now it's a good

(03:45):
opportunity to have aconversation.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
So that's why I reached out and I'm glad we were
able to link up for a chat.
Yeah, there was a lot of bigchanges.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, big changes all around, for sure, for sure.
Well, let's start off.
Let's talk Squamish.
I know you're there for alittle bit.
You said it's rainy.
It's funny.
I'm friends with Adam Campbelland I've had Jesse McCauley on
the podcast as well and it justseems like such a I don't want
to say intense place to train,but like there are so many fit
people per capita in that, likeone small area, like what is it

(04:17):
like?
Like living and training thereright now?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, I, and I think there's just so many activities
that you can do here.
It's insane, and I've had somany conversations with people
exactly on that topic.
But it's also just like youwill meet every day someone
who's either in some specializedniche it might be whitewater
rafting or kayaking, it might becliff jumping jumping, it might

(04:44):
be rock climbing, um, or peopledoing stuff all in one day, um,
like.
I just talked to someone who,uh, did like a massive gravel
bike, ran, whitewater, rafted,skied, like all in one day.
That's like pretty normal here,for sure, um.
So, yeah, it's just like amixing pot People from all over,

(05:07):
lots of Europeans.
It's in the summer.
It is absolute paradise.
It's where I learned how totrad climb and it's got these
huge, some of the biggestmonoliths of granite in the
world and it's definitely veryamazing rock to be on.
And then, yeah, right now theskiing is up high and it's been

(05:31):
raining down low, but the skiingup high is quite good, and then
down low you can have trailsyear round that are snow-free as
well, for the most part.
Yeah, so it's fun.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
It's such a beautiful place I've never been.
It's on my list, um, hopefullyI can make it there this summer.
I'd love to check it out.
What is it like for a trailrunner there?
Is it like just paradise, likeeven in, like rainy spring, like
?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
how does that?

Speaker 1 (05:56):
work.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, that is the question right now in my mind.
I think it it takes somegetting getting used to and it
does rain a lot.
It's the Pacific Northwest, so,yeah, I'm looking at the
weather forecast right now andit's like rain every single day.
Sometimes you get sometemperature swings where it's

(06:18):
not quite so cold out, so like Idon't know, in the 60s
Fahrenheit here and there intothe 70s, but no, actually, no,
not right now, not right now.
We had a fall spring a few weeksago and that was too nice and
then, and then, yeah, so it saysit rains a lot and then some
days it's like cold rain, whichI find that the hardest mentally

(06:40):
, because if you're about to goout the door for a long run, the
hardest mentally because ifyou're about to go out the door
for a long run and it's likejust above freezing and it's
going to be raining the entiretime, I find that's so hard to
prepare for no matter whatclothing you put on.
You know, like we always say,it's not bad weather, it's just
bad clothing or whatever thephrase is.
And, yeah, you know, you canhave like the most waterproof

(07:04):
gear, but if you're going to beout there for four hours in the
soaking rain, and you're tryingto get some intensity in.
It's like it's a mental load,for sure, so I'm definitely
learning to give myself somegrace, find some creative ways,
and then, um, yeah, if it's notgoing to be sunny this weekend
which now it looks like it mightbe, um, but if it's not, then
I'm, I'm going to be sunny thisweekend, which now it looks like

(07:25):
it might be um, but if it's not, then I'm, I'm going to go
chase some sunshine.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
To be honest, though, yeah, it's got to be difficult.
Like I'm in colorado springsand like we just get I mean,
especially this year we havejust been so spoiled with like
really not.
Like no winter, like maybe afew months here and there and
it's been so strange but so warm, and I've been like man, like I
could.
I could live like this.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
This is not so bad, yeah I've been watching hannah
all good train and like shortsand a t-shirt and I'm like what
the heck?
You're in colorado, come on.
But uh, yeah, I mean and thisis why I have the van too, and
we might talk about this somemore but I'm like continually
shopping around for all right,where would be the place in US

(08:08):
or Canada that I like actuallywant to put some roots down for
the longterm?

Speaker 1 (08:13):
And yeah, this past year I had lots of fun checking
out different zones and might bedoing that again this year, but
yeah, so always open for someideas yeah, yeah, you were in
the jackson area for for youknow, or like kind of on the
both sides right of the range,like kind of playing around over
there, like what do you thinkthat area is wild?

(08:34):
Like I don't know, you grew upin bc so it's a little bit
different because like I feellike there's more wild animals
there.
But like I'm a boy from floridaand like I and I've lived,
lived in Colorado for five yearsand Colorado is just like
overpopulated, so like I don'tsee too many animals.
But when I went to like Wyomingfor a Cirque series race this
summer I was like whoa, likethere's, there's like actually
grizzly bears here, there'smoose, like you see animal life

(08:56):
everywhere.
Like what does that like foryou?
Like going to spend time inthat zone?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, no, I love the Tetons and I think for me it's
like the sheer relief and it canbe hard to find that in North
America and it's especially it's.
It's just like so in your face,you know, you see that skyline
and it just draws you in.
I think, yeah, it's funny, likethe bears I'm pretty used to.
I will say there's a lot ofmoose there and on quite a few
few runs you'll like almost runsmack into a gigantic moose,
which is also equally terrifying.
But um, um, yeah, I think,coming from Canada, I'm quite
used to wildlife.
So, if anything, whenever I goto the states it's always like
wait, you guys don't have toworry about this, like it's so,
it's so weird.
For me it's it's almost likegoing to Europe, but then
there's like pockets of where.

(09:46):
It's like oh yeah, you actuallydo see cougar or grizz or or
moose and stuff.
And then I also like the Tetonsare amazing and yeah, I think
the one thing I struggled withas well was to get away from the
crowds.
Um, like, I really lovedgetting up on grand middle South

(10:07):
or up on some of those peaks,um, and you know, once you get
past, like whatever, where thecrowds tend to flock, um, you
can still find that like, okay,I haven't seen anyone for a few
hours and and it's, it's stillthere for sure.
Yeah, but it's.

(10:28):
It's funny because, yeah,british Columbia it's just so
vast and like you can't, youcan't even put a dent on it,
like in a lifetime it would takelike thousands of lifetimes,
whereas in the Tetons, like Iran every trail in three weeks
and it was like, okay, where doI next?
I got to get to the winds, Ithink the winds in Wyoming yeah,

(10:55):
I want to go check out thatzone and it might be a little
bit more bushwhacky anddefinitely more out there, but
they look really cool.
And then the Sawtooth range,also in Idaho, yeah, yeah I
drove past.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
What was it?
I threw lander.
When I was driving out tojackson I was just like there is
nothing out here, like thewinds are legit, like that's a.
It's a cool range, yeah, andit's very it seems very
technical from afar, it seems,you know, just super remote.
So, yeah, that sounds like anamazing place, for sure to
explore you know, yeah, yeah,yeah so let's uh, let's, let's

(11:25):
transition a little bit.
I want to get into.
You know, one of the reasonsthat sparked this conversation
was you just recentlytransitioned from being on the
north face athlete team tojoining the arcteryx global team
.
Um, have you been able to popdown into, like, the vancouver
design area or design scene overthere?
What's that like?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
yeah, it was so crazy .
And I have to say, the welcometo the Arc'teryx team was like
oh, it just yeah, it's, it'sastonishing and I can only hope
that brands do things like thismore and more.
But it was almost likeimmediate myself, and they
brought on two new climbers ontothe team as well and, yeah, we

(12:07):
had like this big welcome, likemet all of the internal staff,
like literally everyone in theoffice.
So we met like I don't know ahundred people in one day.
We're going around and justsaying like hello and just
checking out every corner, everynook and corner within the
office.
So like, yeah, the people whoare designing products and

(12:30):
testing them to like the colordesign people, and you know,
you're looking at like images ofcolor and what that color means
.
Where did it come from?
Was it from like a funky lichenor was it from a deep sea
creature?
Um, yeah, there's just so muchum to absorb, definitely, um.

(12:54):
And then we also got to tour oneof the manufacturing plants,
which was really interesting aswell, and they employ like it's
600 to 700, um, like sewers,seamstress, um, yeah, I don't
know the technical word for that, but uh, the people literally
like making jackets and um, yeah, they've got like kind of a

(13:17):
factory line and we just got tosee like how many quality checks
that they have, where theirwarranty returns go or when
they're doing the re-bird, wherethey like create something new
out of it.
Yeah, so it was really cool tosee and this was like right in
Vancouver in North America, andyeah, I think it just drove home

(13:44):
the quality and thecraftsmanship behind the brand
and the authenticity.
And yeah, lots of our meetingshave started off with like we
really want to be better humansand better humans create better
athletes.
Humans create better athletes.

(14:08):
And yeah, I mean, I'm nowtalking on a weekly, if not
daily, basis with my athletemanager as well as my team
captain, who's Adam Campbell,and both of them are just like
super supportive, you know, wantto reach out, see how things
are going Like recently I justrolled my ankle and like the
amount of concern that thatpopped up and like, hey, let's

(14:30):
get you to see a physiotherapistlike immediately.
So, yeah, it's, it's superrefreshing.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's such a cool brand, like I don't know Adam
like I said, adam's a friend,we've had him on and like he
just really sold it, you know,for for people up and coming or
even you know existingprofessional athletes like just
really put the sell on it andthen like a lot of like the
little things, too, that I waslike really impressed about,
like, uh, what was it?
Mental health counseling wassomething, like he said they
offered like just like littlethings that most brands don't

(15:00):
offer.
That I think like just go along way and make a huge
difference in like trying to,you know, form a team and create
a team and stuff like that,which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think now, yeah, I've gotlike a physiotherapist who's
providing strength training.
The therapist is like a leadsports psychology.
They've got like a PhD and Ihaven't yet chatted with them,
but I'm super excited to go downthat road and, yeah, and then

(15:29):
they also provide funding foreducation and safety.
So I'm looking at like whetherit's running focused and it
could be about my coaching, orcould be like, oh, I need to up
my wilderness first aid, which,yeah, is top of mind right now.
Or, yeah, do I want to go intolike guiding or something too,

(15:51):
and it just like it opens up allthese doors.
That not, yeah, it should beaccessible.
And then the long-term visionas well for athletes like how
some who have gone through theircareer as a professional
athlete and then potentiallythey're sunsetting, they're like
racing, competitive side, butthen going more into adventure

(16:15):
expeditions, or even like fullyhired internally and are working
on like shoe design.
Or like Alana Yip, who's aclimber.
She's like an engineer on theclimb design team.
So, yeah, there's like it'svery, very holistic for sure,
which is sweet.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Not to go off on a tangent, but like that's
something that like reallyintrigues me and it's just like
interesting and I hope morebrands go that direction.
Like, obviously you're you'restill very young in the sport,
but look at Anton, for example.
Anton just signed a long-termdeal with my sponsor, la
Sportiva, and now he's in thisdual role where, yes, he's an
athlete and will continue to be,but also it's this hybridized

(16:56):
role where he'll move, I don'twant to say in an office
position, but it's more designand more input in the product
design and things like that,which I don't know, I think like
us as athletes, like we, Ithink athletes bring a lot more
to the table than just like whatthey can do, whether it's on a
mountain or whether it's on atrail.
You know, like our design input, just the way we think, is a

(17:17):
little bit different and I thinkthere's a lot more that you
know athletes can bring to thetable there.
That I don't know it's likekind of a tangent, but that you
know athletes can bring to thetable there that I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
It's like kind of a tangent, but I just think that.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
No, it's cool to see uh brands doing that more and
david laney with craft that'sanother good example.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, so you're seeing more of it, which is cool
.
Yeah, I, I agree, I think it'sa win-win all around it.
Just the athlete already knowsthe product so well and, like
you say, they are going to beable to test it, and and I, yeah
it just I think it's it's likeyou've created such a big, like

(17:53):
your engagement is still there,like Anton is still Anton and we
still want to hear from him,and it's it's so cool to hear
things like that and I think,yeah, when I heard about David
Laney doing that with craft, itit really did, um, make me be
like, oh, respect craft.
That's really awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, cause it's weird.
I mean, like most athletes arecontract athletes, right, like
you know 10, 99s and it's like,well, you know whether you get
injured, well, then you have togo find help.
There's all these likedifferent intangibles where it's
like kind of on you and likewhen you decide your career is
over is like kind of when youdecide, and it's kind of not
always.
It's like you know, it's aweird.
It's a weird, it's a weirdthing.

(18:33):
It's a.
It's just cool to see likebrands like being able to like
maybe bridge that so you canlike actually like have a
longevity in your career whereas, like it's not just like, well,
one day you run your last raceand then it's over, and it's
like see you later.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
You know Absolutely and I think just even when you
are still an athlete and you'reproviding product feedback that
that's also like one of the mostrewarding, satisfying parts of
the job.
It's like, yeah, this week Igot a whole bunch of tights and
jackets that I'm testing out andtalking to the product
developers on a weekly basis,like, yeah, this is working.
Yeah, maybe this could like beswitched up a little bit.

(19:11):
And um it that that's superrewarding and it feels important
.
It's like it's it allows you tobuy in even more to the brand
and, um, yeah, we'd love to seethat continued for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
I had a serious one for you.
You can answer this inwhichever way you want to, and
if you don't want to, I canalways cut it out.
It's just that I've heard Ihave a lot of friends on the
North Face team, right, and I'veonly ever heard good things.
Was it a very difficultdecision to be able to say, okay
, I'm going to like make thistransition.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
I think when people transition from brands, a lot is
kind of left under the table,especially like to the public,
and you know there's like goodreason for that, for sure.
Yes, it was a really harddecision, I think, for me.

(20:08):
Um, it came.
It came a little bit earlierthan expected and it was just,
you know, arcteryx wanted to getthings moving and, um, I was
actually still with the Northface until end of March, so I
still would be with the NorthFace, but when you have such a
beautiful offer on the table andit's like this is an

(20:30):
opportunity that I don't knowwill be there, yeah, it was like
this is a no brainer, but it'slike it's still very emotionally
hard.
I think when you're with a brand, you create an identity, or at
least I did, and maybe this islearning for me, which, yeah,

(20:51):
who knows if I'll actuallydisentangle myself going forward
, but I do.
I did identify with the NorthFace and it felt hard, north
Face, and it felt hard.
It feels like, oh, all of asudden, this becomes a
transaction and I'm no longer inthis family, quote unquote.
And I love that team, I lovethe people on the team and I

(21:16):
think it's hard to say goodbyeand that did.
It weighed on me a lot and itwas a very you know, a little
bit untimely it's aroundChristmas and New Year's and it
was right down to the wire forsure.
So, yeah, contract negotiationssometimes are drawn out and

(21:40):
they can be quite long, and thisone was almost the opposite,
and they can be quite long and,um, this one was almost the
opposite.
So, um, but sometimes you gotto be right place, right time
and and I did see thisopportunity and I'm super
grateful that I went forwardwith it it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Well, first of all, thank god, thank you for being
so candid and like being openabout it.
But second of all, it's crazybecause, like, both are such a
good fit for, like, an athletelike you with your style.
But arterics the reason I'llsay it's crazy, because both are
such a good fit for an athletewith your style, but Arcteryx,
the reason I'll say it'shomecoming for you in a little
bit, because you're from BC,it's just a little bit better of
a fit just from an outsider'sperspective.
So, very cool and I'm excitedto see the new shoes and stuff

(22:19):
like that they're coming outwith.
Is it the LD4 or LD40 that theyhave, which is sick?
So lots of good stuff comingdown the pipeline there.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, I think they're very ready to go to the next
level with trail, mountain,alpine, ultra running, all of it
, and so this is really year oneof them going full, all in, and

(22:47):
there's a lot more coming downthe pipe for sure.
So, yeah, it's the Norvan LD4.
I find them super versatile.
So they are like lightweight,they're super agile and they're
kind of like that one fits allquiver type of shoe.
I'm realizing I am kind of asilent girl just because my
races right now are more likeultra, a mix of like mountain

(23:09):
but still runnable to steep, umnot like crazy scrambling,
technical Um yeah.
So those they they have likemore propulsion and like rocker
and um stuff like that.
And then they do have the otherlineup like the vertex speed
and the um the vertex Alpine,which are more like scrambly, um

(23:35):
yeah, which I'm I'm reallystoked to test those out some
more this summer, once, once therock is dry, I mean their
lineup is amazing.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
My best friend runs for Arcteryx at the ambassador
level, colorado ambassador, andhe is like he has serious goals
to, to you know, hopefully moveto international or like North
American level soon.
And it's like man, like it'sjust some of the stuff coming
out of there is just reallyexciting, like all the product
design, everything's just likesuper badass, really quick.

(24:03):
I do have a question for youwas it after?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
speed goat.
They started talking to you.
I had a feeling um, uh, it wasnot quite um yeah, adam's got
good.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
He's got a good eye for talent and like bringing
people onto the team.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
It seems like yeah, well, it's got a good eye for
talent and like bringing peopleon the team.
It seems like, yeah, well, it'sfunny because Adam and I had
talked like three or four yearsago and he's honestly been my
mentor like since day one, likeafter, I don't, I think it was
even before I did Canyons.
I was already like Adam, whatdo you think about this?
Or like Adam, how do you?

(24:45):
Yeah, because it was before.
Actually, I did my first 100miler and I would like pester
him about you know, nutrition orlike what should I put in my
drop bag, and he's just likealways been a mentor to me and
yeah, so it.
Yeah, our level of contact waslike yeah, so it.

(25:08):
Yeah, our level of contact waslike in and out, and then I mean
, this truly did come aboutquite late in the season, so it
might've been after Cape Townactually, when the serious
conversations happenedInteresting.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Okay, cool, that's quick, that's amazing.
Cool, very cool.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Well, I think oh, actually I got one more.
I have one more question aboutit.
So, you kind of announced itearly, I saw it on free trail,
and then you put it back offyour Instagram?
Was that where you waiting forthem to do the official
announcement, or what happenedwith that?

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, I, I honestly botched it and this it would
just gives light to mynewbie-ness for all of it.
But, um, no, um, yeah, we hadlike everyone was on holiday and
so, um, we had like a date downthe line for like the

(25:58):
announcement.
I don't, I don't think we hadtalked about that though quite
yet, so I was kind of like, allright, january 1st am I gonna
put it up.
And then people were likeskiing and on holidays and I was
like, all right, all theemployees take their holidays
like really seriously and thisis great.
Um, but yeah, I was, I was kindof just waiting and then, um,

(26:20):
finally, when people got backinto the office, uh, I realized
my mistake and, um, whateverthey actually, they were like,
no, that was, that was totallyfine for Devo to give a little
little shout out there.
So, yeah, no, no harm done.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
No, I think it was awesome, like just like the fact
that like free trails involvedand like making these
announcements for like freeagency and stuff, I think is
totally dope.
It's very cool.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, I mean, this year wasinsane for the amount of swaps
and surprises and everything.
So, um, yeah, it's uh, lots of,lots of like new brands coming
out and shifting and brandstaking a step back, and yeah,
it's just, um, it's interestingto see where trail is going for

(27:04):
sure, it's a crazy landscape.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
It's it's interesting to see where a trail is going.
For sure it's a crazy landscape, it's it's.
But I see good things and I seebad things.
I think see things getting moreexpensive, which I think, as an
athlete, it's like that's abummer, uh, for, like, the
average athlete.
But then also I see, like theproduct innovations are crazy.
Like we just dropped the newprodigio pro and I'm like, damn,
it's a serious shoe.
Like you guys have amazingshoes coming out.
So it's like the innovation has, just like like it's going to

(27:26):
continue to push plus nutritioninnovation, as well as getting
crazy.
Yeah, there's just so much outthere to progress the sport Like
it's going to be, the sport'sgoing to be unrecognizable in
the next five years, which iswild.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, it is wild and yeah, now it feels like the
future of oh my gosh, I don'teven know all the technology
that's coming out now.
It's like stop, stop.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know it's funny.
So you're a coach.
I do want to talk about yourcoaching business and some of
your stuff.
It's so funny.
So I'm self-coached now andI've been working on like a
mesocycle for like twomesocycles, for like the next uh
, to get ready for a race inJune.
Like I have a speed block andthen I've got like a more
specific block and I've beenusing like chat, gpt and it's
like helped me immensely and I'mlike what the hell Like this

(28:11):
thing is like legit.
Like, I'm like just just likeyou know, I'm like and I
explained the I even give it therace and it like confined it
for me and I'm like yo, this is,this is wild.
Um, as a coach, that's going tobe really frustrating because
the human touch is everything.
Not that I'm anti-AI, but I'mnot the biggest proponent of it
because I don't like the idea ofit taking people's jobs.

(28:32):
I don't like us being glued toscreens, it's not very natural.
But as a coach I know thisquestion is a little out of left
field, but what does?
That mean to you that's got tobe frustrating.
What are your thoughts on that?
Does that mean to you that'sgot to?

Speaker 2 (28:44):
be like frustrating and like like, what are your
thoughts on that?
Yeah, it's a good question, andI feel like when chat gpt first
came out, it was like, yeah, no, this isn't gonna like be
replacing these sorts of jobswhere I think that human
interaction is super important,I think you know.
And then, um, I was justreading an article how
researchers are using chat gptbecause our ai can basically

(29:09):
filter through, like you know,thousands or more than thousands
of like other research papersand do like a lit, a lit
research review, you know, um,and they can do that in like an
hour or less, um seconds maybe,whereas, like, if you're hiring
an assistant, that will take,you know, a week at minimum.

(29:30):
Um, yeah, and then it's justfascinating to see where it goes
.
But I think, at the end of theday, that human interaction is
quite important.
And when we do use chat gbt,you know you get those responses
and it's like kind of dull andyou know we've probably all

(29:53):
maybe have tried like asking itfor a prompt and maybe it's for
helping us write an email or acaption or a draft paper or a
draft paper, and whenever I readwhat it puts out, it can
sometimes be okay, but it oftenlacks personality for sure.
So I think that that's oneaspect and with athletes that I

(30:15):
work with, communication is likenumber one.
That's like the foundation forthe coach athlete relationship
and I give, um, I pro, I provide.
Like my intention with everyathlete is I'm going to be
checking in with them at leasttwo times a week minimum and I

(30:36):
don't want there to ever be likecrickets between myself and the
athlete.
It needs, we need communicationto build trust and to really
understand, like what's going onin their life.
Is there work stress, is therea relationship stress?
How's their nutrition going?
And lately I've been workingwith people who have had major

(30:58):
trauma in their life, you know,loss of a loved one, or they've
gone through a relationshipseparation.
You know, I don't, I don't needto know, like I don't need to
become their therapist, but Ithink understanding mental
health is very crucial to be acoach and like I don't want to

(31:19):
be adding load or stress totheir plate when their body is
already like at its limits andthat might be like an emotional
load that they're carrying.
Another thing like I'm workingwith lots of people who are
coming back from either brokenbones or stress fractures.
Um, and I'm I'm really happythat people reach out when

(31:41):
they've had an injury andthey're like, hey, I'm ready to
get a coach.
And it's like great, like Imean not great that they've had
an injury, but it's like let'smake sure that your return to
run is is safe and, um, you know, whether they've dealt with low
energy availability or low ironor some sort of hormone injury

(32:03):
as well.
I think that part also has likea psychological aspect to it
too.
A psychological aspect to ittoo, um and uh, yeah, so I'm,
I'm huge on the holistictraining and that's that's how I
, um, that's why most athleteschoose to work with me, because

(32:25):
I do think that human componentis so key for successful
training and like healthylong-term training as well.
So, um, yeah, and I've chosen togo this way because every coach
that I've worked with, they'veall been great, but I've always
felt like, yeah, we're stillmissing something, and that

(32:47):
usually was like the humanfactor and like it's not just a
training plan, it's someone'slife that we're, in some ways,
we're adding structure orcontrol to.
So, yeah, that's my long-windedanswer.
I really liked it I was gonnaget.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
I have to give you your flowers too, because, like
you're, you're, first of all,your website's amazing.
Not too many athletes updatetheir websites and like yours is
is up to date with evenupcoming races.
I was like, yes, you made lifeso much easier for me.
But it was just very obvious tome as an athlete and someone
that has a good idea of trainingtheory and stuff like that.

(33:25):
Just reading some of yourarticles and some of the things
that you've written for StravaStories and stuff like that, I
was like, wow, you have a verygood idea.
Just like you have a wealth ofknowledge and experience about a
lot of topics, some related towomen and like red ass and stuff
like that, but also just likeextreme amount of knowledge for,
like, injury prevention, justthings like that.

(33:45):
I was like damn, I wasimpressed like good stuff there.
So, yeah, kudos to you.
How did you Thank you?

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm just curious how did you get into coaching and
like, what inspired you to startdoing it?
You kind of like brieflyanswered it, but I did cross
country and things like that.
And then throughout my teenageyears I did like sports and
stuff and then I did rockclimbing for like a decade and

(34:19):
then full circle, I came back totrail running around COVID and
my first ultra race I mean, mytraining was god awful, but I
may have won and that reallyopened my eyes.
But immediately I startedworking with a coach it was

(34:42):
actually the race director, daveStevens.
He's a phenomenal Canadianultra runner.
He really got me into the sportand he's like, hey, let me
coach you.
He really got me into the sportand he's like, hey, let me
coach you.
And through the coaching andworking with him I learned a few
things about myself.
It was like, well, I reallylove the science behind training

(35:03):
and my background as abiologist and studying biology
for years in university.
It was just like, oh, give memore.
Like I would just tear up books.
You know, I think we all startwith like, whether it's Scott
Jurek's book or um the born torun, and then you just go on

(35:23):
from there and then you're likelearning about the physiology,
anatomy, biomechanics, um,everything.
So I definitely like fastforwarded my understanding
behind it and, um, I think ayear or two had passed and then
I started to just work, coachingwith some friends.
It's just like the classic,it's almost a meme.

(35:46):
It's like, hey, I can startcoaching you.
But you know, I was like doingit for free or like very cheap,
and it was just like a sidelittle hobby.
And then, with time, that grewand grew and I started working
with different coaches formyself, and with every coach
that you work with too, I'm sureyou felt this.

(36:08):
You do, you learn from them.
You learn, um, um, differentways to apply theory, what you
like, what you don't like as anathlete, and uh.
So all of those experience I'msuper grateful for.
And then, yeah, fast forwardcanyons.
I started working with the northface and I came to this
decision of like, all right,should I or could I jump ship

(36:33):
from my full-time job as abiologist, which was like super
near and dear to my heart.
I loved it, but it was alsogetting in the way of me being
able to train and like reallybecome a like not a full-time
professional athlete, but likebe able to take it to that next
level.
Yeah and yeah, doing of fieldwork.

(36:56):
You're out on your feet all day, traveling a ton, and I will
say I worked with a lot ofboomers and love them, but like
they did not understand at alland I was, I was definitely the
black sheep and they're justlike you what you want to do,
what Like, um, so yeah, there'ssome 401k where you don't want

(37:16):
to stay in a job for 40 yearsLike no yeah.
Yeah, what your your number onepassion isn't your job Um yeah,
yeah absolutely yeah.
So I did, I took the leap andfor anyone who's ever done a
career search, you understandlike it's terrifying.

(37:37):
You're like I have no ideawhat's going to be for me on the
other side, if I'm going tomake ends meet, like how am I
going to pay the bills, allthose things and I just said,
okay, let's do it for a year,and if I make, if I'm at like
net zero, that's a win Cause.
Basically this is likerestarting a full career.

(38:00):
And I took lots of courses oncoaching.
I did like strength, personaltraining, code, um courses, you
know, mental, uh, psychologytraining, and, um, yeah, I dove
fully in.
So, um, and from there on now,now it's been super successful

(38:22):
to the point where I I eitheralways have a wait list and I'm
like here are some other coachesthat you can work with.
Um, so yeah, it's, it's beenvery rewarding and, as you know,
as a coach it's like you get tomeet so many cool people from
all over the world and uh, yeah,just, everyone has a really

(38:44):
cool story to be able to share,so it's a small part of their
journey.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
So I feel like that's a really fun aspect, too, is
getting to meet so manydifferent people that like come
from all different walks of life, like one person training for
their first ultra ever, someonetraining for like their 30th
Right.
It's like everybody's got adifferent experience.
Uh, one of the things that Ithought was really cool on your
website and I was going to askyou if you had one planned or if
you're going to bring it backwas the um, uh retreats.

(39:10):
The retreats that you weredoing.
Yeah, that seemed so rad, likewhat.
Like what was the idea behindthat?
And yeah, do you plan to doanother one?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, the retreat was yeah, it was like let's bring a
bunch of people together tothis cool zone and be able to
share it, go on some trails.
I really, really wanted it tohave like an educational aspect
to it.
So we did end up doing likethree workshops.
I put it together with myfriend, eva Gifford, who's she's

(39:43):
also a talented chiropractor,who's very progressive in her
practice, and then also a veryawesome ultra runner, and then
also a very awesome ultra runner.
So, yeah, we had like workshopsand it was in this beautiful
lodge, wood lodge setting andit's usually a ski lodge in the
winter.
So they actually had like afull-time chef that they offered

(40:08):
us and the food was like oh, sogood, like all these fresh
ingredients and, you know, likehuckleberry cheesecake at the
end of the day or whatever.
So good, so nice, for whetherthey had kids and they could

(40:38):
like get away and just likefully unwind and relax or people
just wanting to like invest inthemselves and learn a little
bit more, and then lots ofpeople just like coming together
and sharing you.
You know the, the love ofrunning together and yeah, so I
would love to do them again inthe future.

(40:59):
I think it can be tricky interms of timing around races.
So that's one thing that I'mjust trying to.
You know, maybe, maybe it's notlike a annual thing or like
every once in a while.
Um, I will say someconversations are in the works
right now, so stay tuned.

(41:20):
It might not be this year, butit might be down the road to
host some more retreats and,yeah, could be somewhere really
cool.
So I've got a few locations onmine.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Super.
No, it's super cool.
That's the reason I asked,because it was like one of the
more unique things.
And it's like so we have ourone year party for the podcast
like this week, and it's likeit's the first like thing I've
ever planned.
That's like I guess I'm notreally an event person like
putting just stuff together andI'm like, wow, this is uber
complicated.
And it's like trying to jugglethat with training, with my day

(41:53):
job and a podcast.
It's like yo, this is a lot ofwork.
So I always give like I alwaysgive kudos to people that can
like manage all, like justjuggle a billion different
things and like pull it off, youknow and make it look flawless,
which is kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
So yeah, it's yeah, yeah, especially the first time,
and I think it might be likelocation dependent as well.
It's like you know, do you need?
See, there's lots of retreatsout there and maybe it's like

(42:36):
more educational, maybe it'smore location and travel
exploration focused, maybe it'slike just getting unplugged and
just the community building and,yeah, they are very special,
and even, like for myself's,like, oh, that would be pretty
cool to go for a running retreat, like in morocco or something

(43:00):
like that yeah, it's so uniquelike nobody does it unless, like
you're part of a team that likehappens to like, for instance,
like when you were a tnf.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
They do like their, they always do like these crazy
retreats like all over the world.
So stuff like that is likepretty dope.
I don't know Like better thanlike sitting in a classroom in
Boulder, colorado.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
You know, yeah, totally yeah, most brands now
are doing like either a runningcamp or some sort of summit.
Yeah, so with the Arc'teryxteam we're actually we're
meeting up in Portland prettysoon Cause there's the testing
facility there and, like, theshoe development team are all
down there and uh, and then wemight go cheer on well, we are

(43:42):
going to go cheer on the Gorgehundred K and stuff like that.
So that'll be super rad.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
That'll be that's going to be a fun race.
It's going to be a lot ofpeople there this year.
There will be it's gonna be rad,all right.
So I I do want to get intoracing and competition.
I'm gonna.
I do want to just go back intime for a second.
Like I want to talk about 2022canyons because like that was
like the race that kind of putyou on the map, maybe
life-changing in one way oranother, to come in and like

(44:07):
totally demolish like bethpascal's record that year and
like obviously it was adifferent course.
What I'm trying to draw thebarrel, it was it was like the
same course I will say I did notdemolish.
I like to build you up a littlebit, thank you.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
No, I.
Beth Pascal is like a huge idolto me, so I just to be like
basically on par with her wasamazing, it was incredible, I
incredible yeah, it's winter,which is crazy yeah that's
cascales like, yeah, legend,absolute legend of the game.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
2022 was a crazy year because like that was we're
just coming off the covet year.
Um, you know, like that coursewas probably my favorite canyons
course, because that was theone that ended at like china
wall.
Is that correct?
Yeah?
Yeah, tell me, like, what wasthat experience like for you to
go win that race Cause?
Like that's how to have beenlike at that, to that point like
the biggest win of your career.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Absolutely.
I I mean that entire day.
It was like hilarious, it wasshocking, it was completely
unexpected.
It was all of those things.
It was completely unexpected,it was all of those things.
And I mean, even now I canthink back and just like
everything about it washilarious.

(45:20):
For majority of the first half,I was just like in disbelief and
convinced that like no, no,everyone is super wrong.
There's no way that I'm likethere must be a group of 10
women ahead of me.
And yeah, just like from thevery start, and for anyone who's

(45:43):
ever lined up, it's like andyou're running a new distance
and in all these things it'slike you just you don't really
know your own potential.
And in all these things it'slike you just you don't really
know your own potential.
And yeah, you, you believe inyourself, but you're still
scared and it's like you knowyin and yang, those two things.
So I remember being behind allthe elite women and being like

(46:05):
well, like so cool to meet thesepeople, and yeah, and then it
starts and there's shuffling andit's kind of chaos and you're
not sure where anyone is andyou're on this road, but then it
quickly narrows to a trail andit becomes like quite a

(46:26):
bottleneck.
Um, that was, that was thecourse before and I I remember
getting in that bottleneck andbeing like frustrated because I
thought it was behind all thelead women.
And then, once you hit, you getI'm not sure I forget what it's
called but the trail widens tobasically like a quad track, but
it's super buff and everything,and you're along the river and

(46:50):
at that point I saw there waslike a group of headlamps ahead
of me and like definitelyrunning probably faster than I
should have for 100k, and I wasjust trying to catch up with
what I thought were the leadwomen.
Um, yeah, no, they were thelead men, and so I was like
trying to chase them down for agood while, even the first aid

(47:14):
station.
That's when it started to likekind of dawn on me and I ran
past the race director Chaz, andhe was like first woman and I'm
like no, no, I'm like 10thwoman and so, yeah, anyways,
that just kind of kept happening.
And then, by the second aidstation, I was like, oh my gosh,

(47:35):
this is real.
Okay, Like can't mess this up.
And it was just full, fullswitch, which really cool to see
, like the psychology and Ithink any any runner who's ever
been in first place you realizelike well, this is such a
privilege and it gives you somuch fire.
It's like like I want to keepthis and it, yeah, it just

(48:00):
lights this fire under you andso I just use that to fuel me
for the entire race and and justum, yeah, it was a pretty
special day for sure.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Some people like it's interesting right when you're
in that position, because it'ssome people fold and they're
like maybe have impostersyndrome or like I shouldn't be
here and then, other people arelike damn, like I belong here
and like that's kind of what youdid.
Like you, you know you belongthere and you push yourself to a
win which is just like I don'tknow it's so crazy, but like you

(48:31):
led from, did you lead fromstart to finish.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Basically then, Basically, yeah, that's wild,
that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I you don't.
That doesn't happen too oftenand like from a dominance
perspective and like these typesof races, which is crazy.
What I was getting at with itis I don't want to keep us in
the past.
Was you're going to you?
From what your website said,you're planning on going back
this year.
What's the emotion there?
Are you excited to go back?
Are you putting any pressure onyourself?

(48:57):
Obviously, it's a differentcourse, so there's a little bit
of difference to it.
What are your thoughts goingback to it?

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, I've been trying to get back to it for a
while.
It's funny, though, trainingnormally for these races and
even though for some people it'snot an early spring race, but
for some people it's a veryearly race.
So, um, yeah, it is quite adifferent course.
So I'm trying to focus a bitmore on that, and I'm still

(49:31):
curious, or exploring, like, thepsychology or mind shift for
races that you've done.
Repeatedly, I put more pressureon myself.
To be fully honest, like,absolutely, I put way more
pressure on myself repeating arace, and maybe that's why I

(49:58):
tried to avoid it.
Um, yeah, but I see people, youknow, even like we just watched
Killian and Wamsley um tearingdown at Chianti.
It's like you look at runners,athletes that repeat races all
the time, and it's like, yeah,you're not always going to beat

(50:18):
yourself and and that's that'sprobably what we want and going
to aim for that Absolutely butyeah, I think sometimes you've
got to give yourself some graceand like, um, of course, I'm

(50:39):
going to have all my goals laidout, for sure, but at the end of
the day, it's like, just do thebest that you can on the day of
, and it's still going to beokay if you don't beat yourself
Um, but absolutely I want to andum.
It is a very different course,so it should be much faster and
and um.
Like Katie shy, I put down aphenomenal time on it last year.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Was it last year, I think so, yeah, she went yeah,
no, was it yeah.
Was it two years ago already?

Speaker 2 (51:07):
No, oh gosh, I'm in the same boat.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
I give myself a handicap because I'm a sub-older
.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's got the course record on
it she absolutely dominated, butI just you're right.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
I can't remember if it was like wait, did she pull
off the Western States?
Did she do a UTMB double?
Last year?
I'm I got to pull myself outfrom under a rock.
I know she.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah, yeah, I think she did she did yeah, okay, so I
was at Western States yearsjust blurred together yeah, I
know, I know for real I feellike I'm still in 2022, 2023 and
I wake up.
It's like, oh no, this is 2025no, yeah, I I did crew um one of
my past teammates, Elsie Davis,at Western States last year and

(51:50):
it was really cool to watchKatie coming through and there'd
always be like this littlecrowd of like super young girls
all like really excited likewhen's Katie coming, when's
Katie coming?
And then when she came through,like yeah it was, it was pretty
cool to watch that Katie's aninspiration.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Man Like oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
And like that whole like women's field was insane
last year.
Yeah, yeah, just a fun race towatch.
If you not, like I said, we'renot putting any pressure on this
.
If you do get on the podium orwin, is your intention, because
I know I also saw utmb on yourlist for this year as well is
your intention to go to westernstates, or is UTMB going to be
more the draw for this year?

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, that's the question, I think on a lot of
people's mind, but definitely onmy mind, and it's going to be a
dilemma.
I am trying to choose one orthe other, but there's a few
things that are pulling me ineither direction.

(52:53):
I had planned this year to forit to be focused on western
states and get to world champs.
Um, yeah, alternatively, likeutmb is definitely.
It's like burning up my listand I to get there and take a
crack at the hundred miler.
And now, also being with ourTurks, it would be really

(53:18):
special to go to UTMB with them,for, like, it'll be their first
big year with a number ofathletes showing up there and
you know they've got a store nowin Chamonix and, um, there's
people coming over, internalstaff who have never been in.
Part of me is like, oh, Ireally want to be there just to

(53:39):
share these really specialmoments with them.
So I'm kind of being tuggedboth ways, but also just resting
on not making a decision yetyeah and just see how things go.
and I think every year it's likewe can make a beautiful race
schedule, but often who knowshow much of that is going to

(54:02):
happen?
And yeah, I might add in speedgoat, I might add in a race in
Europe, maybe in July.
Um, yeah, it'll.
It'll depend on a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
So I think it's more fun to be fluid, Right, and just
like have a couple of thingsand it's like, all right, I'll
try to get to this.
And as opposed to, like I'vealways found in the past, where
if I like make a schedule likestart to finish, like, and by
the time I get to the end of thesummer, like I don't want to do
anything I set out to do and solike that I set the goal in
like February, by the time I getto September I'm like I don't
want to do this, I want to dosomething else.
So it's kind of funny the waythose things work.

(54:37):
Obviously, it's a little bitdifferent with races like UTMB,
because it's already likeannoying to get into that race,
or like Western States, which isimpossible to get into as well,
unless you have a ticket but,like things like that.
I do want to pivot a little bitto because I forgot.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
You're from bc, you're a canadian.
How does that work with gettingin the worlds for you?
Yeah, yeah.
So I think it's kind of similarfor americans and most
europeans, but we we have it'skind of like two different ways
to get in.
And they actually already hadthe qualifying race.
So it was at squamish 50 50last year.
So a number of people arealready on the team and I think
there was like a shorter race inquebec, yeah, um, yeah.

(55:22):
So there was those two which Idid not attend.
So my only way, my only option,would be going through the
resume, cv, alternate route.
And so they basically look at,like your racing history and
yeah, like I'd be applying forthe long distance on the team,
and, um, yeah, so we shall seeit's.

(55:47):
And then for the americans,like the gorge and Broken Arrow
is happening, and so those aregoing to be like quite crazy to
watch for sure.
Yeah, it's funny how it linesup at different times of the
year.
So it's hard for people, like Ifeel, for the Americans who,

(56:12):
well, I don't know, maybe it's,maybe it's good that they're
doing their race the gorge earlyin the season- but I don't
think so.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
I'm like man, this is a mountainous race in the
Pyrenees.
The hell, are we picking gorgewater?
I mean like I'm just yeah foreverybody else, like we've, this
is.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I else, like we've this is I've had tom hooper on.
We've talked about this likeoodles at times, but like, yeah,
it's just, it's, it's, it's thetiming, which is, yeah, it's
hard.
Yeah, it's, honestly, it's,it's hard.
Like, in some ways, no matterhow you you tackle it, um, I
don't know, I I think the wholeworld series they need to like
have a little bit more of a aplan or like how it works that
also works more with theathlete's schedules.
Like, honestly, it's it's superdisappointing that it's so

(57:03):
close to UTMB and it's gonnawater down both competitions and
why not have it spread out alittle bit more?
Like, yeah, it's it's takingaway opportunities and, um, I
don't know, yeah.
So, now, I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
And I think on the American side too, it's like all
right, are we going to, arethey going to turn down?
Uh, so let's say you applyresume right On the American
side, like are they going toturn you down because you're
going to be doing utmb?
Like let's say, jim forinstance, like jim's, like our,
you know, are probably our bestshot right in a lot of ways.
Like jim's, as dynamic as theycome and it's like all right,

(57:41):
are you gonna turn jim downbecause he's good plan?
If he's gonna go run utmb, likewhat do we do with that you?
Know it makes it an interestingconversation.
For sure, there's a lot ofnuance to the argument.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
It does.
Yeah, and it should almost be aconversation, like I know, for
road marathon athletes, whenthey sign a contract to do
whatever Boston or New York it'slike in that contract, they
cannot race anything else.
I don't know six or eight weeksout or something like that.
Um, and that probably should bein the conversation.

(58:12):
For worlds, and some people arethinking about double dipping,
like I mean, I was consideringdoing OCC, which wouldn't really
be favorable for my, my skillsin terms of going against, like
golden trail athletes and stufflike that, but it could be a

(58:34):
good learning experience andthen hop over to worlds.
Um, there's risk, though.
It's like three weeks apart and, uh, you just you don't know
what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
So you brought up something interesting there with
uh, by saying contract, I waslike the reason I say that is
because, like, I haven't comeacross many athletes, if not any
where.
So, like, for instance, UTMBcan sometimes be an incentive
right To go race those races,but like, yeah, I don't think
worlds is ever an incentive foranyone.
I have never heard it beenbrought up, so that's

(59:04):
interesting.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
No, no, yeah, Most, most brands are not super keen
to support athletes towards it.
Um, yeah, usually you have towear a different brand attire
and, um, I mean it's, it's, youcan usually wear their shoes
still, so there's that, and then, um, I think it's getting there

(59:30):
in terms of the traction andthe engagement and people
watching it.
It's still like it is a specialouting and the last few years
that they've done it, they'vedone a very good job, I think,
and it's really cool.
It's kind of like the closestthing we've got to the Olympics
in terms of like wearing yournational flag.

(59:51):
Wearing your national flag, um,I will say like utmb and, uh,
you know, even like westernstates or golden trail.
You know, all these races arepulling the most competitive
fields.
Um, um, right now, in thetrailer, which also worlds it,
it's been stout, it.
It's been like super, super, uh, the performances that people

(01:00:14):
have put on there is is wild,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
I'd be curious, Cause you seem like I gotta ask you
your opinion on some of thesethings, Like what's your take
and we can cut out any of this.
You know, like it's fine.
Um but like I'm just curious,like what your take is.
You run, you've ran, a few UTMBraces, right, Quite a few.
Um, you know you're one of thebiggest female athlete names in
the sport.
Like, what's your take on likethe where the UTMB situation is

(01:00:42):
and like consolidation of racesin the sport versus like
maintaining this like grassrootsvibe that we have, but also
making sure we can attract likeelite level talent to a lot of
these races?
Like what's your, what's yourtake on that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of mixed and I think, yeah,
where to start?
Okay, so I do parts about UTMBthat I appreciate.
It's like all right.
They are providing podiumincentives for athletes, they're

(01:01:18):
providing an experience for allathletes, recreational,
whatever, everyone um, theytypically do a good job in terms
of like safety and marketing,um, marking the course.
Um, just because they have,it's almost like they have like

(01:01:40):
a standard internationally,though, that is to say, like
like some of these races, aswe've all probably heard, like
the first year of x-UTMB race,you know there's some growing
pains and and like I'm sure thatevery race director for a UTMB
race they're going through itand learning and and um, yeah,

(01:02:03):
so I think it is good to havelike safety and like some
standards down for races andstuff.
And then you know the magicalcarrot of getting to the UTMB
finals for everyone.
It's like we all crave thatbuzz, that energy before UTMB

(01:02:25):
and being there at the like theseason capper event and I mean
there's so much fervor, it'slike it's insane.
Um, yeah, and, and that to meis is super special and I think,
just for anyone getting intothe sport myself very much
included um, utmb is like thatis the number one race that I

(01:02:50):
want to get to and take my crackat it.
Yeah, a few times, um, yeah, andthen of course, it's, it's
unfortunate, like there's.
It's hard to fully know whatthe intention behind um, the
people running UTMB and andIronman and, um, you know, do

(01:03:15):
they always have the runnersinterests at heart?
And, uh, yeah, from some of theobvious like missteps that
they've taken, it's just, it'ssuper disappointing.
It's like, ah, come on, guys,like all all right, apologize
and learn from this and dobetter.

(01:03:35):
You know, for me, the, the utmbwhistler race, it's yeah, it's
so bittersweet.
It's like, dude, come on, likewhat are you guys thinking?
On the one hand, it would be sogreat to have one or two or
three races in canada and toshow off this beautiful country.
There's so many beautifulplaces to run and it just

(01:03:58):
provides an opportunity topeople more locally.
They don't have to alwaystravel.
And you know, yeah, and thenGary Robbins being like an
awesome person with such acommunity where he's created so
much community, it was justdisappointing.

(01:04:24):
For sure I'm going to go so farto boycott, but, um, I am going
to be like supportingconversations that are healthy
and, you know, it's cool to seeGary Robbins um creating more
races and different locationsand stuff like that.

(01:04:45):
And then, um, I just I hopethat they're learning from all
of this.
And uh, yeah, I do sit on thepro trail runners association,
so lots of conversation has beenhad with UTMB and they are um
receptive to feedback and thingslike that.

(01:05:07):
Um, yeah, I do see we're tryingto shape this quickly growing
sport.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
And you know, we're having these like weird
outgrowths right now and it'slike, OK, is that going to keep
going or is this like the future?
Yeah, so I think we'll all beseeing, like, where it's headed.
And yeah, there's there's a lotto talk about and and, like you

(01:05:45):
know, they're creating moreraces and in other countries and
things like that, which I thinkis really great to have
opportunities for those peoplein those locations.
Um, I think we all, very muchmyself included just have to
like think about how much we'retraveling on a yearly basis and,
uh, it's, it can be quite hard.

(01:06:07):
And as a professional athlete,it's like, okay, how can I just
limit my travel to europe once ayear?
Um, from my carbon footprintand for my body, but mostly for
the carbon footprint.
Um, yeah, so that's always onmy mind.
And then for the mom and popraces out there, like I, I

(01:06:29):
wouldn't be here without mom popraces and I think they are
whether they're like that firststepping stone for some people
who like really take this andrun with it, whether it becomes
a career, or like their mainpassion, or they're just like an
amazing, like nesting groundfor local communities.

(01:06:53):
And so my long answer, short isjust like an amazing, like
nesting ground for localcommunities and, um, so my long
answer, short, is just likethey're both important to have
those mom and pop races and thebigger UTMB races.
I do think, if you, if a racedirector wants to have a
competitive field which thishappens quite often where a race
director will be like hey, doyou want to come to my race?

(01:07:14):
And like that's all great andeverything, um, but yeah, if you
want to have people doing thisand it's like their livelihood
and stuff, like I don't know,having a podium bonus of like
500 bucks or something Like Ijust think it's's 2025, like, um

(01:07:36):
, yeah, I think we're at thattime now where I even look at
western states.
It's like well, well, why?
Why is this still a race wherethere's there's no prizes or or
anything, and absolutely crazy,yeah, so, um, yeah, I'm not in

(01:07:57):
it for the money per se, forsure, but it's also like this
sport is professionalizing and Ithink that races need to
recognize that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Um, if they want a competitive field I think
there's so much to talk aboutand unpack there like so many
coverage.
I mean one thing with with themoney and getting prize, or just
like winning prize money ingeneral, like I don't know.
Like you said, like we're Idon't know, I'm a very I know
you said you're on the PTRA,like I'm like very pro athlete

(01:08:27):
as opposed to anything else.
So like of course, I want theathletes to be able to make as
much money as humanly possiblebecause, like, this is a finite
sport.
We don't last very long in thesport and you know a lot of
folks, you know many folks goall in and try to figure this
out, make very little money andhave very short careers.
So it's like and what do youhave after?
So like, for me, I'm like likeone of the conversations that

(01:08:48):
came up recently we don't haveto go deep into this but Sabrina
Stanley signing with OnlyFans.
A lot of people had a lot ofopinions on that and everybody
can reserve their opinions, butthe only opinion I had was like,
dude, I hope she makes amillion dollars.
Good for her, go crazy.
I hope you make the bag and canretire, because I don't know,
it's just a sport where there'snot a lot of money made, so with

(01:09:09):
the professionalization.
It would be cooler and justbetter for everyone involved for
there to be more prize money.
And I get it Like I sit on theboard of a race, I know how
these things are allocated, likeI understand, like it can be
difficult, but like why not goto external sponsors and see if
they can put up prize money?
Like there's alwaysopportunities there to at least
give something right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Yeah, totally yeah, yeah, no, it's, that's it's
interesting times and people aresolving it in different ways.
And it is interesting.
It's like okay, is this goingto become like the only fans

(01:09:59):
thing?
It's like it's this has been inour sport for a little bit and,
uh, it is interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
It's like okay, if this was a man with the
conversation being different, Idon't know you know it's funny,
I got, I went yes, I got sopissed the other day and I'm not
gonna name who I who it was,but like it was just like three
dudes debating like on a podcastabout like what they thought
about sabrina stanley, like Ihave like joint, like signing
with only fans, and I was likewho the hell gives you guys the

(01:10:26):
right, like three dudes, to beable to say like whether this
woman can like make like money,like in whatever she chooses to
do.
Like I don't, I don't understand.
Like why, your friend?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
because if it was a dude I think it would be a
completely different likemindset, yeah yeah, yeah,
because I think in uh, cyclingor something, there is um a
cyclist, a male cyclist who whohad him was doing only fans, but
um, yeah, it's interesting.
Um, I think my only thing islike all right, I do want to be

(01:10:55):
a role model for the nextgeneration.
That's true too, and so that'sthat's like my main caveat with.
It is All right.
Even after I ran Cape Town, Ihad like six moms with their
little girls.
I'll reach out with like avideo of them talking about it
afterwards and it's just like,oh, this melts my heart.

(01:11:19):
Um, so, yeah, I I don't know howyou can separate those two
different things.
On the one hand, it's like cool, like there's different
creative ways of of making money, and like maybe even I think
the other rhetoric of like, oh,women are getting forced to do
this because we're not gettingpaid equally and the pay gap

(01:11:42):
might still be there for sure,but I wouldn't say it's like I
don't know, the force isn't, Idon't know, it's, it's not like,
um, we don't have other optionsas well, and, and maybe it's
it's like certain people want todo that too, it's yeah, um, so,

(01:12:03):
yeah, no, it's, it'sinteresting times.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Yeah, options, I just like that.
You know what.
I'm glad that athletes haveoptions right.
Like you can sign with AdidasTerax or you can sign with the
only fans now and there you go.
Yeah, it's interesting.
Um, so back to theconsolidation.
Like I do, I think we live inthis world now.
You know, I was not I, I don'twant to say I'm anti UTMB.
I think what they put on it'sthe super bowl.
I think it's amazing.

(01:12:26):
Some of those races like OCC,ccc and UTMB are just like the
pinnacles of our sport.
In a lot of way.
I was actually like kind ofswayed a little bit this past
weekend, like when Jim andKillian and Vincent like duked
it out, I was like and you knowI got to wake up at 530, 6
o'clock in the morning and watchthis like from Colorado and
watch these guys do this in asport that I love so much, and I

(01:12:48):
was like, damn, like that's thevalue I think a little bit like
UTMB brings, like you couldwatch this on the live stream
and you get to watch three ofthe best athletes in the world
like kill each other.
Well, not really.
Like Jim really was prettydecisive but anyway.
Yeah, demolished, yeah, but likethat was demolished, um, yeah,
yeah, yeah, that was.
It was just cool to follow.
So that kind of shifted it likemy perception a little bit.

(01:13:11):
But also it was like I think wecan live in a world like this
isn't going to be triathlon,like where I think we can live
in a world where we'll be ableto have both, you know,
hopefully.
I don't think the UTMBconsolidation, like especially
in North America, seems to havelike slowed down at least a lot,
you know.
So I don't know, I think we canhave everything.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think we can have both.
Yeah, yeah, I think we can haveboth.
And joining is still growing.
You know, yeah, yeah, we'regoing to have the mom and pop
races like.
Even my hometown, nelson, bc, Ijust saw, okay, it's got two
new mom and pop races like andthey're selling out, you know,
um.
So that's, that's awesome.

(01:13:50):
And we can have retreats orcamps as well, and they're all
just different ways ofexperiencing the sport.
You know, like some peopledon't even want to race, and
it's whether they just want togo out and do crazy adventures.
Or like someone I'm coachingeven right now.
She's like I just want to gorun my own hundred miler, you
know, and we're like creating acourse and mapping it out and

(01:14:12):
plotting her aid stations andeverything, but she's going to
run it by herself, she's goingto have some friends join and
all like that, and that'stotally fine.
That's cool, um.
Or you got people who are doingFKTs and like um.
So, yeah, I think that's thecool part.
This sport is still likespecializing, um.
I look at rock climbing androck climbing is a really good

(01:14:35):
example of this.
There are so many disciplinesin rock climbing and you talk to
a boulder or a trad or alpinist.
They're completely differentathletes.
They are so different likepersonality and their build and
everything.
And like we still we're we'restill kind of figuring this out,

(01:14:55):
I think it's definitely it'shappening.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
So yeah, that's something cool too, like will
you, will we see like the ultrakind of separate from like the
mountain trail, like some of thelike the sub stuff, right, or
how will the you know more skyrunner, mountain athletes kind
of like separate too?
I don't know.
It's cool where you can, youknow, or the track people like
where this 24 hour stuff, likehow does that fit in?

(01:15:17):
Yeah, there's a lot of likedisciplines which which can
separate out and like be theirown thing moving forward, which
would be kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's there for sure.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I wouldn'tput myself up against like a
cold trail athlete.
They're so different.
And I mean I was.
I'm always curious Well, whatif they did a hundred K or a
hundred milers, Like what wouldhappen to?
Um, some of them would do greatand I don't know, I don't know

(01:15:44):
if some of them would break downor who's to say.
But um, yeah, it's alwaysinteresting to think about it
that way.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
I got a question off that, so you ran.
Last year you jumped in theBroken Arrow VK.
Yeah, are you just a littlesub-ultra curious?
What did you think?

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
That was kind of like a workout and definitely got
very humbled.
For sure, I was also comingfrom almost sea level to up
there, but I think my restingheart rate was like 120, so not
a good start.
But um, yeah, no, I mean, itkicked my ass for sure.

(01:16:23):
Um, I think it would be it.
It's so funny, it's like adifferent mind state and I find
like sub-ultra it's like dopeople in sub-ultra just have
this like mental grit that isattuned to like really sharp
pain, like really really sharp,intense pain, whereas for more

(01:16:49):
ultra it's like are we morecrafted towards the pain?
That's just like it's there fora long time but it's not as
intense.
Um, so, yeah, it's kind of likeis this a personality thing?
Obviously there's likedifferent muscle fibers and all
the training and stuff.

(01:17:09):
But um, yeah, I will say when Iwas young and first getting the
cross country, I was alwayslike into the longer distances
and even though I still at thattime was talented with short
track stuff, he just never likereally connected with me,

(01:17:29):
whether it was like spirituallyor emotionally.
But um, yeah, I think, I thinkfor me, even going into this
conversation, I was like well,for, for FKTs, I will say I
would be much more likely to belike, yeah, I want to go try
that sub ultra FKT for sure,like an up down mountain or

(01:17:50):
something like that.
Um, I mean, most most of theFKTs that I have tried are
sub-ultra, so I think I'll keepdoing that.
I think the actual races aremaybe a bit intimidating and I
would just need to go in withthat headspace of like, yeah, if
I'm top 20, that's a win.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
It's so funny you say this Okay, so cause I'm you,
but opposite I'll do like for anFKT.
I would do something reallylong.
I would never race a hundredmile or or even a hundred K.
I would even race a 50 K butlike sub-older stuff I
absolutely love Cause I don'tknow it's that it's that pain I
like.
Love that being able to likehurt so bad, but only hurt for

(01:18:34):
like an hour and two hours butlike for for an fkt I would.
I would really be open to doingsomething like an 100k distance,
like it wouldn't wow, I'd betotally fine with it so it's
funny how, like differentdifferent athletes like have
different like approach, willhave a different approach to
that when it comes like the waythey think about racing versus
fkt's.
I was going to ask you aboutyour the.
What was it?
The monolia?

(01:18:54):
Is that the volcano that youdid um?

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
up down fkt that were yeah halakia, is that I don't
remember monica monica, that'sit in hawaii.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
That must have been super cool.
I was just in hawaii in um Ithink it was october, november
and nice I was like dude, Igotta go back and run some of
these trails.
I was in maui, so that it waslike dirt roads yeah and then I
got sick and didn't get a chanceto really run, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
But tell me about your experience yeah, the monica
, it's like you know.
You go from sea level to whatis it above 14 000 feet um yeah,
it's, it's pretty high, it'spretty high.
It's pretty high.
It's, like you know,technically the world's largest
mountain if you consider, likethe underwater part as well.

(01:19:38):
Um, so, yeah, you, youdefinitely get some solid
altitude um effects if, ifyou've been on Hawaii for a
while or depending on whereyou're coming from, or um, all
those things, so things.
So, yeah, um, I was there forlike a train camp kind of
vacation and, uh, I, we hadfirst tried to bike up, it got

(01:20:05):
rained out, um, and then I didan attempt for the FKT, did not
get it um the one week and, yeah, I got it.
It's like so hard to breathe upthere and I was not in like
optimal fitness or anything likethat.
And then you know, you trysomething, and then it was just
like on my mind for a week afterand we were still there, so um

(01:20:29):
took another crack at it andeverything went a lot more
smoothly.
Um, and even like my partner atthe time, I think he ended up
supporting me and we just hadlike a much more dialed um plan.
So I will, yeah, for for FKTs,try to give them two cracks at
the very least, especially whenyou're like traveling, if you

(01:20:51):
can.
Um, yeah, you, you learn andeverything.
Um, yeah, I think that thattime for sure can come down some
more um it was like 230something, yeah, 234, 232 or 238
, I can't remember.
It was something in there yeah,something on there, I think the

(01:21:12):
downhill like I love a fastdownhill, I will just fly down
and the uphill could be improvedby quite a bit, though it's
really sandy.
It's like I have a friend who'sjust going there and I was like
, oh, try and do the Mauna KeaFKT.
I was like, maybe bring poles,cause it's like it's like you're

(01:21:34):
walking in quicksand and youjust keep it.
It's just really hard to gettraction without losing energy.
So yeah, yeah, there's a fewsweet FKTs over in the Hawaiian
Islands.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
Is there anything that speaks to you, like for an
up-down or like an ascent oranything like that, that like
like that's sub-alter realm,that like you'd have your
interest in, like anything thatI think you might take a crack
at in the coming years?

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
you probably know what I'm gonna say.
Uh, the.
I mean, yeah, I did hang out.
I did hang out in the tetonsfor a bit and uh, I think the
first time I went up the grandand I was with connor and
michelino and I was like, oh,should I?
I went up the grand and I waswith Connor and Michelino and I
was like, oh, should I just gofor the FKT right now, you know,
like just kind of joshing withthem, I think we ended up doing,

(01:22:23):
um, connor made it into an FKT,we did the grand, middle and
south all in one day and, uh, wehad like a decent pace but we
still had like a pizza party onthe top of, I think, like two or
three of them.
Yeah, so yeah, I would love togo after the Grand and I think
it's just, it is iconic and it'scool that, like Emily and some

(01:22:48):
very strong ladies, have somesome sweet times on it and you
do have to train for thealtitude, so you got to kind of
live around there somewhere highfor a bit and then, um, I think
the technicality when I firstwatched you know, there's like
the classic videos of antonkillian I'm checking it out.

(01:23:10):
Iconic yeah, yeah, uh, I I wasapprehensive before getting on
it.
I was like, oh, this looks waytoo sketchy and and everything.
And then after, when I went upthere, I was like, oh, no, like,
um, I think the downhill, thecoming off, making sure that

(01:23:31):
you're being safe around people,and all of that, that would be
the main part where I'd be like,yeah, okay, this is kind of
dangerous, for sure, um, but um,the exposure and and everything
, for, yeah, it feels pretty,pretty good I was gonna ask you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
I was a little apprehensive.
I wasn't sure if I was gonnabecause I kind of didn't bait
you on it, but I wanted to seeif you'd say it, just because,
like I don't know for you, itkind of fits't.
Bait you on it, but I wanted tosee if you'd say it just
because, like I don't know foryou, it kind of fits very well.
Having been out there for aperiod of time getting to see
the route and then also likehaving a climbing background,
like I feel like it's a veryspecific skill set you need.
Like not anybody can go attemptsomething like that I feel like
you actually have to like knowhow to climb like one way shape

(01:24:08):
or form.
Like not your average, likerunner with like high running
skills could go do that like youneed to know it, like have some
technical background.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Plus, it's a hard thing to project as well, like I
feel like it takes a long timeto have to figure that thing out
, you know yeah, yeah, I think,just getting to know all the
efficiency, all the efficienciesin that route, because there
are so many different ways toget up to the top.
And, yeah, you get up.
There's just like a boulderfield and everyone is going
every direction and, um, there'sguiding parties, there's people

(01:24:41):
and, um, yeah, I think it would.
It would definitely take sometime as memorizing the route.
And then, um, yeah, I, I think,some of the other rock um,
whether it's like middle tetonor uh, two and aught is another
um fun one to do and those are abit more technical, um, but I,

(01:25:06):
I love that type of likescrambling and definitely the
climbing background.
It just helps with likeexposure and then definitely,
just like your movement,fluidity over rock and spatial
awareness.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
It's funny if you don't do it for a long, like I
don't scramble very often and Iwas in Boulder for a photo shoot
like two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
And like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
I got up on like a scramble and I looked like I'm
fine going up and I looked downand like had a borderline panic
attack.
I was like holy shit.
Like I like, pull together, pulltogether, don't don't be that
guy in front of the photographerand your peers like just just
just carefully scramble down.
But yeah, if you don't do itfor that much, I'm like man,
I've been running for too long.

(01:25:48):
I need to like go like messaround on some rock and like or
get in the climbing gym becauseI don know, I feel like if you
don't do it for a long time, youdefinitely lose that skill.
I don't know, it's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Yeah, no, I agree, it's definitely.
It is a skill that you need tokeep up.
And yeah, I mean, I was kind ofsimilar to you going into this
2024 summer and then, yeah, justhanging on the Tetons,
scrambling a fair bit, and thena lot of my solo runs I would
started to scramble as well, andit's always like sorry, mom,

(01:26:22):
you know, like it does add to itlike solo scrambling, and I'm
not usually a fan because I,even as a climber, I still see
scrambling is like in many waysmore dangerous than true rock
climbing.
Um, just, things can happen,rocks can pull out and you know,

(01:26:42):
no matter how skilled you areat climbing, scrambling still a
lot of people die from it, forsure.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
Yeah, um boulder's weird because we have that like
weird culture of it, you knowyeah I shouldn't say we, because
I'm not a boulder right, butlike they.
There is a weird culture of itwhere it's like very, it's like
their thing it is their thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Yeah, yeah, different it is.
Yeah, it was fun hanging out inboulder and it's like a big
jungle gym, for sure.
But, um, yeah, could see how,if you've been there for a long
time and you know hearing abouthow like the groups will do like
races up some of the rocks andum, you look at the Strava

(01:27:23):
segments and the times thatpeople have on some of those
rocks, it's pretty insane.
And uh, kyle Richardson is likepart man, part chimp.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
I don't know how he does it Like it's crazy, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Definitely yeah, all right, so we're almost at we're
at like an hour and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
I'm going to start winding us down a little bit.
Getting to some endingquestions, I'm curious who
inspires you?

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
That is a good question.
Yeah, I think a few people cometo mind um, for the ladies out
there, I I really admire umathletes that kind of like lead
with authenticity, authenticity.
So I just see that and I thinkI'd say, like Ruth Croft, um,

(01:28:19):
I've had great competitive, uhcamaraderie with Abby Hall in
the past.
Um, I mean Courtney DeWalter,who's like sparkling um in
Transgrant and Canary.
She, she, it will forever stickwith me.
She offered me her poles and mypole was like kind of broken Um

(01:28:41):
, oh my gosh, that's so cool.
Yeah, yeah, really special.
Um, but yeah, ruth Croft Ithink she's just like super real
and uh, I mean, even when Ibump into her on the trail, um,
she's very humble, um, but thenjust super badass and she's had

(01:29:02):
a very long career and uh, yeah,I think I think those those are
the people that really speak tome and um, really speak to me

(01:29:23):
and um, um, yeah, I couldprobably give a lot more um, uh,
other athletes, um, hazelFinlay she's actually a climber,
but uh, just, she's faces, fear, like full-on, and then she's
just going into motherhood rightnow.
It's always cool to watch um.
And then, I think, just all theathletes, too, that are like
multi-sport as well um, yeah, um, people who are into like

(01:29:48):
skiing, running, climbing, um,there's that versatility and
then embracing the seasons forfor what they are as well, it's
it's really awesome you'dmentioned authenticity curious
to see like what that?

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
I talk about this a lot because it drives me crazy.
Um, both as a podcast host andas an athlete in the sport like
I, I always like want people tobe their true selves and it's
hard, especially on social mediabecause it's a weird outlet.
It's like trying to pull thatout of people or see people try
to be them True selves is veryto kind of like navigate through
that.
What does authenticity mean toyou?

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it is definitely hard with
no, I mean it is definitely hardwith social media and whatnot.
And adding in the layer ofbeing like, whether it's a
public figure or professionalathlete, it's like all right,
what filters do we need to puton in terms of like upholding

(01:30:48):
some credibility but still beingable to like connect with
people in the community?
So I, I fully like recognizethat for sure.
I think for me it's likespeaking your truth and you know

(01:31:09):
if you get injured.
It's like coming to terms withthat and, um, when you're ready,
like being vulnerable about itand just being super real.
Um, or you know whether it'sany sort of hardship and um,

(01:31:29):
yeah, I mean I could even namelike Elsie Davis.
I remember when I first got intotrail running, I came across
her her Instagram profile andthis is before she was even with
the North Face, but she wasjust so real with her journey
and she had had like stressfractures and obviously it was
like figuring out her fuelingand her training and everything.

(01:31:54):
And, yeah, that to me it waslike oh, this is someone who I
want to follow and this issomeone whose journey I want to
like see how she overcomes thisand I mean, even still, she's
like very, very just real abouther life.
And yeah, I guess, on the flipside, um, either when everything

(01:32:22):
is perfect, or, um, people notreally living in, aligned with
their values, um, or what theysay that their values are, uh,
that I guess it just like it's abit of a red flag and um, yeah,

(01:32:42):
um, just want to.
Um, I think too, uh, one thingI've experienced as a female
athlete it's like coming intothe sport.
Some people are going to belike behind your back and and
really want to like you know, um, be stoked for your journey and

(01:33:05):
hopefully vice versa.
Um, and one thing I realizedlike not everyone is going to be
um might be nice to you in yourface, but then, like behind
your back, um, that support isis not there.
It's the opposite.
So, um, yeah, it's somethingthat I'm still navigating and I

(01:33:29):
don't know if it's like comingfrom, I don't know insecurities,
or maybe it's something on meor whatever, but, and I don't
know if it's more of a femalething or if men also experience
it.
But, yeah, and that's just whylike authenticity is super

(01:33:52):
important to me.
Yeah, and that's just why likeauthenticity is super important
to me.
It's like cool If this personis like open and humble and like
they're having a greatconversation with me, like they
mean it and they mean well.
Yeah, but a little bit sad tosay, like I have experienced the
opposite and yeah, I think it'sjust sometimes happens with

(01:34:17):
sport.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
So it's interesting, right, you can always tell when
you meet somebody very real.
It sticks with you.
And you're like yeah, that's areal one.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
And then, yeah, you do, there is a lot of people I
don't know, it's an all sport, Ithink but yeah, you do meet a
lot of people that are like I,just it's, I don't know.
It's different at theprofessional level too.
I think it's more so at thelevel of people trying to get
into the professional realm,where you meet a lot of people
trying to be someone else andnot find their authentic voice.
And I always like that.

(01:34:48):
Not that it's a red flag, Idon't really care.
It's just that like something Iidentify is I talked to like a
big mix of people and it's likesometimes you see people on
social media and it's like man,like I, just, you know, be one
of one.
That's the best example.
That's the best advice I alwaysgive people is like, just be be
you, but be one of one, youknow don't try to be somebody
else, and that's that's how youget to whatever level you want

(01:35:10):
to get to.
you know, whatever level youwant to get to you know, yeah,
exactly, very well put music.
I want to talk about music likewhy, if you're getting ready
for a hard effort, you'regetting ready for a race?
Like, especially because yourun these long distance races.
Like, are you ever popping inmusic and like what's, what's
the favorite song?
Like, what's the hell yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:35:26):
definitely.
Yes, uh, right now, doja cat.
Right now Doja Cat is on repeat.
All right, she's my girl.
No, she does put out somepretty rad music.
Yeah, no, I think for workoutsand some long runs I'll

(01:35:50):
definitely have some tunes goingfor sure.
Yeah, I have to laugh because mymy old coach, dave Stevens.
He's like super into music andhe always puts out like a
playlist like at least once amonth.
And, um, there's some very goodtracks on there.
Um, it just got me through likean indoor workout, so that's a

(01:36:11):
good testament.
And um, yeah, I pretty likehouse dancing music, for sure
for workouts.
But these days, like withSpotify, I mean, it's just like
you're continually seeing newartists all the time.
So when people ask me, like,what's your, who's your favorite
artist right now, it's likethere's just so much that, um,

(01:36:35):
maybe it just goes with ourwhole ADHD issue these days with
having information overload.
But, yeah, I will say I'll likeslow down and, you know, have
some good folk music or roadtunes and all like that.
I have not yet listened tomusic during a race.

Speaker 1 (01:36:56):
What you'll get to like 60 61, and you're like you
have to listen to your ownbreathing, and like remain I
would like die if I had tolisten to my own thoughts and my
own breathing for 60 miles.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
That would drive me nuts yeah, yeah, I need to try
it at some point um, I feel likeit's good.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
Maybe, though, just being in your own head for that
long, it could be good, it couldbe bad, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I guess I'm in race.
I'm like I just like to hearwhat's around me and especially
if there was someone behind me,I'd want to know, like oh,
that'd be such a terrible thing.
Like you have some tunes on andyou're like, yeah, this is
great.
And then someone zips past youlike no, that'd be horrible.
Um yeah, and then like airpods,my airpods are like you know,

(01:37:42):
if you ever lose your airpodsand you're like kind of freaking
out and try to find them, um,I've done that too many times
with the find my whatever app.
Um, yeah, I just don't want tolose them.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
So, uh, that's fair, it's a good, it's a good answer.
Yeah, all right, serious,seriously, not so serious,
question um, oh man, I don'tknow if I'm gonna go bigfoot or
aliens let's go aliens.
Do you believe in aliens?

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
I mean, something's gotta be out there.
It's just so vast.
There's got to be something outthere.
Maybe it's like light yearsaway.
Yeah, um, I I had in universityI had a friend who studied um
astronomy and uh, he would justlike figure out crazy equations

(01:38:36):
while we'd be like at a party orsomething and yeah, we would
sometimes have this conversationand there's got to be something
out there, for sure for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
All right, I gotta ask you bigfoot like do you
believe in bigfoot?

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
they're alive and well out um definitely pacific,
northwest washington, in thekootenays.
Last I heard they were liketeleporting and oh, hell, yeah,
yeah, they're pretty advancednow they're out there, man,
they're out there.
I I'm a believer, I want tobelieve the least you know
they're running around andhanging out yeah, I just saw

(01:39:18):
that there's like a bigfootyelling competition I saw this
on instagram, yeah it wasamazing yeah, it was great, some
real some real talent out there, like some guys.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
Some guys and gals can really yeah, they can really
vocalize.

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
He's like Chewbacca and, uh, just all sorts, so
highly highly recommend watchingthat.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
Well, listen, jasmine .
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
This is an amazing conversation, honor and a privilege to have
a convo and, uh, yeah, I wishyou the best of luck in your
2025 season and let's definitelycatch up after and, and, yeah,
enjoy it.
And congratulations on joiningthe arcteryx team and excited
for what the future holds thankyou, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Just gonna go with the flow and uh yeah, just
wishing everyone some happytrails out there absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Thank you.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
I want to thank jasmine so muchfor coming on the podcast.
What a fun episode.
I want to thank Jasmine so muchfor coming on the podcast.
What a fun conversation.
Before you guys get going, do mea favor hop on Instagram and
give her a follow.
You can find her at JasmineLouther.
That's Jasmine.
J-a-z-m-i-n-e, underscore W-L.
Sorry, that was bad.
J-a-z-m-i-n-e, underscoreL-O-W-T-H-E-R.

(01:40:30):
Give her a follow.
Let her know what you guysthought about the episode.
I'm sure she would reallyappreciate your words of
kindness.
Also, if you're interested incoaching, jasmine does have a
coaching business.
I'm not sure how filled up forcoaching spots or if she has any
coaching spots available, butif you're interested, send her a
DM.
I'm sure she would appreciateit.
Guys, if you enjoyed thisepisode, give us a five-star

(01:40:51):
rating and review on Apple,spotify or wherever you consume
your podcasts.
That's how we can continue toget these episodes out and tell
these amazing stories of theseincredible athletes out to the
world.
And yeah, that's all I got foryou.
Guys, have a great weekend,have a good long run, have a
good workout, whatever you gotgoing on.
Yeah, it's getting warm,starting to get warm here, at
least in Colorado, so hopefullywarm starting to get warm here,

(01:41:31):
at least in colorado, sohopefully things start warming
up around the country so we canuh get some good training in.
So all right guys, enjoyyourself.
Thanks so much.
Thank you you.

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#87 - Jazmine Lowther

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