#89 - Hawk Call - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to welcome
the Trail Team Elite Team for2025 to the podcast.
Over the next week or so, I'mgoing to start rolling out
interviews with each of the neweight members of the Trail Team
Elite Team.
We're going to start off thisweek.
We're going to kick it off withnone other than Mr Hawk Call.

(00:22):
Kid Dynamite uh, kid dynamiteman.
Big fan of Hawk calls um, gotto watch Hawk call last year
actually dominate and win theCirque series.
Uh, grand Targi race Um, heactually also took the win at
the speed go 28 K.
Um, hawk's been on a tear.
I mean very, very solidmountain runner.
Um, the son of absolute legend,probably the best ever.

(00:44):
Do it in the OCR scene.
Mr Hobie call yeah, it's prettycrazy to see like how Hawk is
just like taken to the sport andreally grown over the last few
years and I'm so excited forwhat he's going to be able to do
.
He's got his eyes set on theGolden Trail series for this
year.
He's already had amazingfinishes at the Broken Arrow 23k
over the last few years.
Wouldn't be surprised to seehim take a podium finish or a

(01:06):
top 10 as well at Broken Arrowthis year, if not win the damn
thing.
So it's going to be fun tofollow along.
Big fan of Hawk Calls, hope youguys enjoy this episode.
Hope to have him on again afterthe season for more to talk
about.
Without further ado, none otherthan Mr Hawk Hall.
I'm out of here, ladies andgentlemen, we are live.

(02:28):
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Hawk call Welcome to the steepstuff podcast.
How are you, man Good, how areyou?

(03:33):
Oh, dude, I'm doing great.
I'm super excited.
I've had finally have a chatwith you.
Dude, congratulations on onmaking it onto the trail team
elite squad for this year.
And, dude, I've been wanting tohave a conversation with you
since last year.
You whooped my ass at uh cirqueseries.
What was it, grand targi?
You had a great race there.
Um, yeah, wyoming yeah yeah,ever since then I was like man,

(03:54):
I gotta get this kid on thepodcast.
Like you really like, like rana great race.
Like you beat a michelinosinceri like just before he ran
the grand teton.
So, like you, you bit beat somefit dudes.
So anyway, dude, how's your daygoing?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
it's good.
Just got off work where itwasn't too bad, but it was all
right.
Work is work.
You know you got to do what yougot to do.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
So it's true, it's true, training going well,
everything on that end, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, I was dealing with some Achilles issues
towards the end of last seasonand then kind of throughout the
winter a little bit.
It was just kind of coming andgoing.
But yeah, training's rampingback up though, starting to get
back up to full mileage andworkouts again, and so it's yeah
, I'm feeling good, I'm excitedfor the year what you got

(04:45):
planned.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Before we dive into it, maybe give like a little
like a five minute elevatorpitch on, like your running
background and you know, justlike your relationship with the
sport of running.
I think you have a very uniquestory, especially given like how
like storied your dad is in thesport and like all these
different things.
So dive into that.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, so I started.
I mean, I started reallyrunning in like high school like
most people, and so before thatI do a little running here and
there, but mainly just kind offor the fun of it, and we had a
family rule where, like, weweren't allowed to play any
video games or electronicsbefore we had a workout of the

(05:21):
day and I just chose running asmy workouts and so that's kind
of how it started, um.
But then, yeah, after that, uh,high school, uh, I ran for a
Stansbury high out in TooeleCounty in Utah, um, and had a
ton of fun.
I really liked the coach outthere, had a good time.
Um, ended up performing wellenough at a couple of state
meets that I got recruited byUVU over in Orem in Utah Valley

(05:47):
and so I ran cross country andtrack and field for them for a
few years.
And then when I finished upthere, then I did a little bit
of OCR stuff like Spartan, toughMudder, that kind of stuff, and
so I did about a year, yeah,about a year or so, of OCR
racing, with like kind of sometrail racing thrown in there.

(06:08):
But like my main focus was likeSpartan and it just didn't
really I don't know, it justdidn't really go well.
Like well, I guess I shouldtake that back.
It did go well.
I was, I was performing well, Iwas winning races and I was
having fun.
But Spartan just kind of isn'treally at a time right now with

(06:29):
like their elite athletes towhere like it's a focus of
theirs, and so it just kind of,I don't know, I got drew towards
the trail racing, cause I mean,it's just getting more and more
popular these days, it'sexploding and there's a lot of
really good elite athletes inthe field now and so it's just
super competitive and fun and sokind of got drawn away from OCR
into mainly trail racing.

(06:49):
Uh, for this last summer, uh,and then this year I was like,
well, I had a really good timelast year, so I'm just going to
do the same thing.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
But nice man dude, your improvement has been crazy,
like you know, you started offyou had you raced what speed
goat in 2023 had a top 25performance which was lights out
, I mean even for yeah being soyoung and then, like you, just
started putting it together lastyear.
I mean, you know, like I said,some great you know great circ
series, few great circ seriesresults and then, like a like

(07:17):
smashing the speed goat 28k, um,like dude yeah, you really put
it together, man.
It's impressive, to impressiveto see, like you know, like how
you've, you've just reallystarted learning and getting
significantly better, Like whenthe matter of like a couple of
years, which is, you know, veryexciting to see.
Um, you know, maybe let's,let's dive a little bit more
back into your like college atyears.

(07:38):
Like what did you specify in onthe track?
Like, were you a middledistance guy?
Or, like the mile, a miler?
Like what did you?
What'd you do?
I?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
was a distance guy, yeah, yeah.
So back in college, um at across country obviously, which
is eight Ks, 10 Ks, um, thetypical, you know, collegiate D,
one experience, um.
And then, yeah, in track andfield I did the um three K, five
K, uh and steeplechase.
And so three K, steeplechase,Um.
And then I never, I neveractually did run a 10 K on the

(08:08):
track, um, I don't know why itjust I don't know, it just never
happened.
I guess I don't know I reallyhave a good reason for that Um.
But yeah, lots of five Ks, lotsof steeplechase, those were
typically the two races that Ifocus on during track season.
And then the um, the three K forthe for the indoor track season
.
And so, yeah, it was, it wasfun.

(08:28):
I really enjoyed track um moreso cross country Um.
But yeah, it was a good time.
I really liked running a UVUand I think I got my, my five K
down to a 1442 on the track,which nothing insane, insane,
but it was a good.
You know, it set me up well fortrail racing and for running

(08:49):
outside of college.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
But that's what I was gonna say is like most fast
trail guys are somewhereunderneath that like 50, that 15
, a little, a little underneath15 every now and then like I
think mason kopey is like a sub14 guy, but like there's not too
many of them floating aroundlike there's that's, that's a
solid 5K time dude.
Jesus, I'm curious about, likethe area you live in.

(09:11):
Just because there's like is itChristian Allen's?
Not that far away, there's alot of really talented athletes
in your area.
Did that play any role, anddoes it continue to play a role,
in like training to be able totrain with any of these guys, or
is it more so just kind of liketraining by yourself, like how
does that work?

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, in the in the beginning, uh, like the first
couple of years it wasdefinitely I hadn't really, you
know, gotten to really meet anyof these guys, I hadn't done
many races with them, and so Ididn't really have any
friendships you know with withthe trail community um,
especially coming from OCR.
Like there's not a whole lot ofOCR racers in like the Utah

(09:50):
area, um, it's pretty spread outUm, and so for the first couple
of years it was mainly justtraining alone.
I would do pretty much 90, 90,95% of my training solo.
Um, and then, or I have a goodfriend from high school too that
I've run with as well, um, butyeah, none of the other you know
, like, like Christian, etcetera, um, but then this past

(10:14):
year though, uh, once I'd racedthem a couple of times, we kind
of become a little closer andmore friends Um the over the
summer months we usually willmeet up for a few workouts, um,
try to meet up, maybe like oncea week, once every other week,
and so, honestly, we don't do aton of our training together,
especially over the winter.
Because, for Christian, forexample, like he really went

(10:35):
after the marathon this year andwith me dealing with my
Achilles stuff over the wintermonths, like I couldn't put up
that kind of mileage and thosekind of workouts right now.
Months like I, I couldn't putup that kind of mileage, um, and
those kind of workouts rightnow.
And so yeah, over the wintermonths it's pretty separate, but
over the summer months, whenthe trail season really hits,
then we we usually meet up atleast once, uh, every other week

(10:56):
or so for either like a longrun or some sort of tempo run or
like or fkt on strava or youknow, just some some kind of
training run like that.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
I feel like he's a little bit older.
He's going through the processwhere he's now with Nike and
he's a big name in the sport.
Has it been a little bit moreof a mentor for you as well, as
you've started to develop?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, it was super awesome watching him just go out
Back to that reference of thatspeed go 50K in 23, 24, whenever
that was, that was the year hewon.
Yeah, that was the year he wonand I mean, he just blew me out
of the water.
Like the first like half ofthat race, I was like, okay,

(11:41):
let's just see how close I cankeep with the top guys.
And then, like I was like, okay, let's just see how close I can
keep with the top guys.
And then like and I was notready for that 50K Like that was
the first 50K I'd ever done andwith that much elevation and
you know, and that kind of arace like it just it destroyed
me, but it was super awesomeseeing him just absolutely crush
that race though.
And so after that race there, Iwas definitely like, okay, I

(12:04):
want to make more of an effort,to like to get to know this guy,
to train with him a little moreoften, especially since he
lives so close and so it'salways hard to match up
schedules, like you know, whenyou both have full-time jobs.
Like you know, you want to be aprofessional athlete, but in the
end, so not many not manypeople actually make, you know

(12:24):
know, affordable money off ofthat, and so you've still got
your full-time jobs and yourfamilies and all of that, and so
it's.
Yeah, it's hard to match up,match up training schedules, but
after that race, though, Idefinitely made more of an
effort to be like, okay, I wantto train with this guy, like
he's absolutely killing it, andhe's continued to kill it, and
so, yeah, over those summermonths I definitely make an

(12:46):
effort to run with him as oftenas I can, but again, a lot of
the time it just comes down toschedule of work and family and
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
But yeah, that's amazing dude.
All right, I want to transitiona little bit here.
I'm not going to bury the leadtoo much.
Like your, your dad is like theprobably the goat of ocr in a
lot of ways like literallyprobably the great, like hobie
calls like the greatest to everdo it.
What, what is that like havinglike your dad being, like like
coming up and like your dad'slike a extremely, if not like

(13:19):
the most well-known ocr athletethat ever lived?
Like what is that like?
Like in a house?
Like that like do you holdyourself like I have to hold
myself to like high standard,especially as an athlete, or is
it like I'm just kind of curiouswhat that was like growing up?
Like where is?
it yeah yeah, what is that youtell me?

Speaker 2 (13:34):
I mean, yeah, like, I guess there's kind of there's
kind of two perspectives to it.
Like there's the when I was akid and like seeing him at the
races and like seeing how, howpopular he was and how everyone
you know wanted to come up andmeet him and get their picture,
and like all that.
And then there was the um, the,like the at home perspective,

(13:55):
where it was like you know, likeI said, like he worked a
full-time job, he'd get up early, he'd get home, he'd work out,
he'd get ready for bed andrepeat you, you know, like
that's, that's what you have todo to be a high professional
athlete.
Like you have your schedulesthat you got to stick to, and
you know, et cetera, et cetera.
And so there's kind of the twoperspectives to it.

(14:16):
But from, yeah, from an at homeperspective, though, I mean he
had an insane work ethic that,like I definitely admire and try
to, like you know, live up tofor sure.
And, like I said, he'd get upearly, he'd go work his full
time job, he'd come home, hewould always be happy to go and
work out.
Like.
One thing that I definitelylearned from him was like it's

(14:37):
not like a have to.
It's a get to kind of thing.
You know, like a lot of thetime when you get home from work
you're just kind of like, oh,like that was a crappy day, or
like I'm exhausted.
You know all these excuses comeinto your head.
Or or it's 95 degrees outsideand it's five o'clock in the
afternoon.
You know, like, how am I goingto do this?
It's like Hobie was 100 percentlike he'd get home.

(14:59):
He had a smile on his face,he's excited and happy to go and
do it, not like a okay, I haveto go and get this done, kind of
thing.
And so that was, that was, andyou know, everything's fun and
everyone's so glad to see eachother.

(15:26):
It's like there's that's a verysmall percentage of, you know,
of the whole year that goes intoit, um, and so yeah, there's.
I don't know if that reallyanswered your question, but it
does, it does.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean I just couldn't think of a better role
model and someone to like,because that's the thing.
Like trail running, I thinkspecifically trail and mountain
running is a very blue collarsport in a lot of ways.
Like you don't make a ton ofmoney, it's a very like you
gotta like if you want to getgood at it, you gotta grind.
Like you have to be extremelydedicated, more dedicated than
cause.
You know your, your competitorsare dedicated, right.

(15:59):
So it's like, how do I get thatedge?
I don't know, I just couldn'tthink of like a.
It's like a such a good rolemodel for someone so young to be
able to like come up in thesport and kind of get to see
like, oh well, this is how I doit, you know it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
So we talked a little bit about the trail team.
You were a selection this year,which I was so stoked that Andy
selected you and he's got aneye for talent.
Call him like one of the best,uh talent scouts in the sport,
if not the best.
Um, how excited are you?
Man like this is a really bigopportunity, really big deal.
Um, you know, like, what areyour thoughts, uh, for being

(16:34):
selected for the 2025 elite teamyeah, yeah, I'm super stoked.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
I um, I applied for the 2024 team um, but after like
the the um the year before that, I was like I'd had, um, some
good races, but like nothingcrazy, nothing really like
outstanding, and so I wasn't toosurprised when I didn't get
selected.
I was like I know that, like,like you said, he's got a good
eye for talent and so he picksthe guys that you know are

(17:00):
performing well and that hethinks will continue to perform
well, um, and so when I got theopportunity, after all the
racing of last year, to applyagain, I was like, okay, like I
think I have a better chance ofgetting selected this year.
Um, and so, yeah, when I did, Imean I was, I was super stoked.
I was like there I was able to,after like the first half of
the season last year, um, I wasable to get to know them a

(17:22):
little better and then also dolike a little bit of traveling
with them for some of the laterraces in the year.
And so, yeah, like even before Igot selected, I had gotten to
know them a little bit, traveledwith them a little bit, and I
mean they're just, they're justso excited and happy to be there
, and so it's like it's a greatgroup to be with, because

(17:43):
obviously you want to besurrounded by like minded people
that are also excited and happyto be there.
And so it's like it's a greatgroup to be with, cause
obviously you want to besurrounded by like-minded people
that are also excited andpushing themselves to the limits
and, you know, the weekend andweek out and doing everything
that they can, and this team isdefinitely one of those, one of
those kinds of groups, and so,yeah, I'm excited for the year.
I'm excited to do some moretraveling and racing with them
and and yeah, and to competewith them.

(18:04):
I mean, the guys that gotselected this year are.
They're super good athletes,and so it's going to be.
It's going to be really fun toyou know both.
You know race with them andcompete with them.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
It's like yeah it's going to be fun.
I'm excited.
Oh, dude, I love it.
I love it.
Can you talk about theselection process?
So I actually don't know thisand probably I've never actually
asked Andy like how it works.
Like, is it it's just anapplication to see interview you
guys after, like, how does thatwork?

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, yeah, so they have.
So basically, you build likeyour race or running resume, you
know, like like you typicallywould, and then you kind of you
send that in um and he has justlike a an application for you to
fill out, has just like anapplication for you to fill out,
and then if you get selecteddown to, I want to say maybe
it's the final 15 applicants or10.

(18:50):
I can't remember what the exactnumber is, but then you just
have like a Zoom, you know,interview with them, with Andy,
and then after that then it goesto a board of it's like four or
five people I think that theyhad on the board this year.
Then they get together and theymake the final decisions.

(19:12):
These are the top three men,these are the top three women,
or however many they decide tobring on for that year.
Just submit an application, havean interview, have an interview
to kind of get to know eachother face to face a little bit,
and then it goes to a board.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
So I like the way he does that, cause it's like kind
of in a lot of ways, obviouslyit's kind of like how
sponsorships come about right,like it's the same concept as
like being able to pitchyourself, submitting a deck or
submitting your resume, if youwill, and then having
conversations from there andthen usually it goes through.
You know a few people until youget you know more or less, you
start to haggle and getnegotiations.

(19:50):
So it's I like the way he doesthat, cause it's kind of like
the start concept of like howsponsorships actually come to be
, which is cool.
So it kind of gets you guysprimed for that next level when,
when it starts to come, sothat's cool.
Um, all right, so I know you'reexcited for racing.
I'm stoked to see you race thisyear.
I think you're, you're primedfor a fantastic season.
Maybe let's let's talk aboutwhat you got planned.

(20:11):
Um, I know you said you weregoing to open up the season with
a golden trail series race.
So you tell me which?

Speaker 2 (20:15):
one you're going to be going to.
Yeah, yeah, so I'll have the.
So, yeah, the first trail raceof the year will be the one in
italy, the I can't remember thefull name of it like the isola
or isola, how do you pronounceit?
Yeah, um, in may, um, sothat'll be the first one, and
then, after that, uh, we'll goto broken arrow again, uh, and

(20:36):
then we'll also have some goldentrail series race or, uh, not
called a cirque series.
We'll have some cirque seriesraces thrown in there again too.
Uh, just because I had such agood time with them last year,
they throw on such an amazingevent and they're also they have
a lot of local ones, and sothey're great.
They're just great filler races.
They're so much fun.

(20:56):
We'll throw in a few of thoseagain as well.
And then, I think, the last forthe Golden Trail.
My main focus this year is thegolden trail series.
I want to make it to the worldfinals, um, and so the third one
um that I plan on going to is,um, the one in, I think it's in

(21:17):
austria.
Yeah, in, like in august, yeah,I think it's austria.
And glacier glacier trail one.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yes, yeah, yeah that one that's a sweet looking.
I know they haven't releasedthe course yet, but just like
some of the photos from theinitial course, like glacier
travel and stuff like that looksreally sick.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's gonna be cool.
Yeah, they all I mean they alllook awesome like you.
You look at each individualrace that they've hosted in this
series and they all look likeso much fun, dude, I'd love to
see you in like a series in all,too, if you can get in Like
that would be sick.
Yeah, that would be really funtoo, maybe next year.
I'm thinking with this yearlike this is just what's going

(21:53):
to fit.
I chose specifically thesethree races.
I think it's what's going tofit with my schedule, the best
for this year, and give me agood chance at getting into the.
I'm trying to remember if itwas like the top 30 in the point
system.
I think, yeah, top 30 in thepoint system, it gets invited to
the final.
And so, yeah, I'm hoping, withthose three races, um, that'll

(22:17):
set me up in a good position toget into the finals at the end
of the year, um.
And then, so, yeah, goldentrail series will be my main
focus, with some cirque series,and then I may have some other
kind of random mods and endraces thrown in there as well,
but those will be the main, themain points so I really like it,
do you?

Speaker 1 (22:36):
maybe you could talk to a little more like this
because, like you've kind oftaken a sequential step each
year.
Like last year you had a bigyear and like pretty much on the
national scene, like you youwere very dominant.
What do you think you learnedfrom that that you think you can
take Cause this is, you know,the international scene is is
the most competitive on theplanet, like the golden trails
series, Like what do you thinkyou can take into that for the

(22:58):
learned last year that you canapply to have some success?

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, yeah, honestly, I think probably the biggest
thing that I learned from lastyear um is that you have to be
confident to start out fast,like the what's something that I
really struggled with the firstyear round.
It was like I had this ideathat, like this is trail racing.
Like you're going to go up anddown, up and down, you know five

(23:23):
different times, like if you goout too hard you're going to
die and also the people that aregoing out so hard in front of
you are going to die.
And like, and I just I realizedthrough trial and error that
like that's just not true to betrue, but it's not.
I was like it's just the fieldhas just gotten so competitive

(23:46):
now and people have gotten sogood at being able to, you know,
redline certain sections.
Like, let's say, you're areally good downhill runner.
Then, like you, yeah, cut anddry, simple.
Um, as as the thought process of, like if I start out, you I'll

(24:08):
pick people off as I go, likeyou got to start out hard, the
middle is hard, the end is hard,like there is no, they're kind
of in road racing.
You kind of get to settle intoa pace and you're like, okay,
this is what I can handle, thisis what I know I can handle, and
so I'm not going to push it,push that envelope too hard.
But in trail racing, like, it'salmost like the exact opposite.

(24:29):
Like you have to push thatenvelope because you're you know
, other people are going torecover better on the down or
other people are going torecover better on the up, and
it's like you have to be willingto go back and forth on that.
It's like a continuous battle,um, and so, yeah, I think that's
probably the main thing that Ilearned, um, and then also just

(24:50):
getting getting the experienceof racing last year, like, like
I said, I came from ocr beforeand so, while ocr is still
mainly mountain focused running,um, you still have the
obstacles to kind of break it up.
And I remember in races lastyear being like man, if only
there was a sandbag carry rightnow, like I would catch that.
You know that second and thirdplace that are just dusting me

(25:13):
right now.
I was like I could catch them.
I know I like I catch myselfhaving those thoughts, like as I
was doing the trail races, andso, yeah, like there's just
there's just a lot to learn andyou just got to be patient with
it.
Like the first year that I wasdoing mainly trail racing, like
I would.
Just every race I went into Iwas like, okay, like I'm in such

(25:33):
good shape, this is going to bethe one.
And it just never really quiteclicked and like as frustrating
as it was, like it's just youknow every minor lesson, like
you gotta be as frustrating asit was, it's just a reminder
lesson.
You've got to be patient.
You've just got to keep onworking at it.
One day it is going to clickand you're going to find your
groove.
Then you can really startclicking off those races and

(25:57):
getting some good times andcompeting against some of the
best guys in the world.
I've still got a long ways togo, for sure.
I mean, I've still got a longways to go for sure.
Like there's still there'sstill quite the gap between,
like you know, the 10th guy inthe race and the first guy in
the race, like those top threeto four guys.
Like they still definitely havethat level.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's another level.
It really is like you, yeah,like the times from fourth place
to second and first, so likethey can be minutes, you know,
and it's like it's there's stilldefinitely a whole nother level
that needs to be pushed.
But I mean, we're working on itthough.
Yeah, like the US is definitelygetting better and they're

(26:37):
definitely closing that gap, butthere's there's still another
level that needs to be reached,but we're definitely getting
closer, so, and it's superexciting to see and to be a part
of.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
So, dude, you're right on the precipice of
breaking through.
Like you're right there, it'sgoing to.
You know what?
Like I would not be surprised,you know, if you roll up some
huge results this year.
It's going to be exciting tofollow.
Let me ask you this You're soyou're signed up for sunopi,
dude, and oh yeah, I forgotabout that one.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
That's a selection.
That's a selection, that's abig one.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, what are your?
What are your thoughts on that?
Like, if you, uh is your, islike a goal floating out there
to possibly represent team usaoh for sure, yeah, no, that's,
that's the only reason I'm goinglike, yeah, I, yeah, um.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Last year, um, I signed up for the first Cirque
series, the Snowbird, the USATFChampionships, thinking that, or
, under the time that I signedup, that was the qualifier race
for the USA team, which is thewhole reason I signed up.
And so, yeah, my entire goalwas like I want to place top two

(27:39):
, I want to get onto the US team, like that's one of the main
focuses of this year.
I want to place top two, I wantto get onto the U S team, like
that's one of the main focusesof this year.
Um, and then it wasn't untilafter the race had finished that
someone that they told me likeoh, no, like it got changed to
the race the week before.
Um, like it's no, like it's nolonger the top two, and I was
like, oh man, like that's abottle that sucks, sucks.

(28:03):
I was like it was still a reallygreat day and a really great
race, so like I couldn't beupset, but at the same time, I
was like man, like that that wasthe whole reason I signed up
for this race in the first place.
Um, and so this year I, I'm,yeah, I'm back for redemption.
I'm like I'm gonna, I'm gonnabe at the right race this year
to get those qualifyingstandards and uh, yeah, I mean
the whole reason I'm going is isto take top two and to get that

(28:23):
, um, to get into that USA team,so okay, have you ever been out
like, played or played aroundon the East coast trails?

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Like it's a little bit, uh, tom, tom Hooper likes
to call it it's so East coast orsomething like that.
I forgot how he says it, butyeah, it's they're different.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
It's a little bit different.
Yeah, yeah, I've raced out in.
I'm trying to remember the name.
It was like I had an OCR racein.
I know there's one in.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Killington 22?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I did the one in Ontario,canada, up at Blue Mountain I
think, and so I raced like thatwas a very, yeah, very green,
luscious mountain kind of thing.
I don't know if that'll relateto New Hampshire.
I mean, they're somewhat closeto each other, but not super

(29:11):
close, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
We'll see.
Do you think you're going tostick around for the week and do
Canon the next weekend?
Cirque series Canon, which isin in New Hampshire as well.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
The Cirque series.
It's also the.
Oh, it's also the way for brokenarrow, so I yeah I was yeah, I
wasn't planning on it, I wasthinking about it.
But yeah, for that exact reason, I was like I don't want to.
I don't want to race three,three weekends in a row, that
close to the beginning of theseason, like kind of want to try
to save myself a little for theend of the season this year.
So but but yeah.

(29:44):
So I was like I could I mean Iprobably could race two weekends
in a row.
I was like, but I, I don't wantto push it.
So yeah, I'm just going tostick with.
Stick with New Hampshire forthe USA qualifier, and then
broken arrow.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, dude, I would.
I really am excited to see whatbroken arrow this year I last I
saw you finish what the hellwas it like?
20 might have been 23, 2023, Ithink.
I saw you finish the 23k andthen last year you got what?
Sixth.
So you've moved up every year,like this year is obviously
going to be the most competitiveone because it's a gold, like
proper golden trail series race.
But you know the course, youknow I I don't, dude, I'd be

(30:21):
betting on you.
I think there's there's somegood opportunities there.
You know it's a show up.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
So yeah, yeah, I'm.
I'm really excited.
I really liked that course Umthe first year I was there.
Because of the weatherconditions, we didn't actually
get to do the original courseand yeah, it was two loops and
so I was bummed about that.
Um, but this last year, though,I mean I was bummed about that,
but this last year, though, Imean it's, it's such a brutal
but beautiful course, like it's.

(30:46):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun and,like you said, the competition
is insane.
I mean, the best of the bestshow up at that race, so it'll
be.
Yeah, it's going to be awesome,I'm hoping.
Yeah, last year my goal was topeight and I reached that, and
so this year I'm shooting fortop five.
Um, I was like I was one stopthe podium last year and I was

(31:08):
like man, uh, you know so close,but so far.
And so this year, yeah, thisyear the goal is top five.
Um, but yeah, we'll see.
I mean it's going to be supercompetitive.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
So I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I'm excited to see right Dude it's going to be that
week is gonna be nuts man.
I like just so much energy.
It's gonna be just crazy,especially with the ascent too,
like the ascent's gonna be justbananas are you?
Not.
Are you on the start line forthe?
Are you gonna be on the at theascent or no?

Speaker 2 (31:33):
just no, I was, I wasn't planning on doing the
ascent.
Yeah, I think, honestly, my, my, my main strength and trail
running is probably the descent,the downhills.
And so I was like, in alluphill race I could do fairly
well, but not as good as I couldcompete in the 23K, so I'm just
going to save the weekend forthe 23K.

(31:55):
I was like that's my main focus, that's the one that I want to
try to get points towards theGolden Trail Series, and so,
yeah, it's.
I don't know, my uphill hasgotten stronger over the years
but it's still definitely not mystrength.
And so in all uphill race I'mlike, ah, I don't know, not not

(32:15):
really too interested in that,but maybe someday though maybe
someday I'll do one, just tojust cause you gotta know, you
know, you gotta try to find out.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
And so, yeah, just because you gotta know, you know
you gotta try to find out, andso yeah, no, you're one day,
you're totally right.
I mean, I don't know, I thinkyour uphill is pretty solid.
Like I remember at targi, likewhen you put the moves on on I
was at michelino and talon, Iwas like super impressed.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
It's like damn that's not bad that, that's that that
targi one was awesome.
Like I don't think I've everhad so much back and forth at
the top end before that race,the three of us, we just kept on
going back and forth, back andforth on the ascent, even the

(32:57):
ascent.
I'm drawing a blank on his nameright now.
Oh man, I'm drawing a blank onhis name right now, zach.
Yes, he was the one that he hitthe peak before.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Anyway, he was the first guy to hit the peak.
Oh, I didn't know.
Zach was straight in front.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Okay, I didn't know that, yeah, Zach was like.
So it was me, Zach and the guywith the long curly hair.
He placed second.
He placed right behind me atthe Grand Targhee race.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
I'm drawing a blank on his name too.
I thought Talon was up therewith you guys in Michelino.
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh shit, it was me the curly I can't remember what
his name is and then Zach thatwas the top three, but anyways,
the three of us we kept on goingback and forth on the ascent,
and then Zach's yeah, zach'sascent is really good and he got
to the peak before us.
And then, as soon as we hitthat downhill though I was like

(33:51):
all right, this is a short raceI was like I got to bomb this,
like if I'm going to win this,like I got to go now.
And so I caught him, like rightaround when you hit the kind of
the zigzags back down and outwhere it turned into the single
track.
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
And then that's where .

Speaker 2 (34:06):
That's where I took the lead of the race, but it was
yeah, that was a crazy race.
There was so much back andforth for yeah, for a trail race
, there was so much back andforth.
It was a lot of fun, yeah, it'sa good course.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
It's not enough vertical for me, like it's just
like I don't think it was only 2000 feet, like I wish we had
more yeah, there's not a ton,not not quite as much as um like
alta is my race, I love altathat's my favorite one um, yeah,
I didn't do alta last year, butmaybe I'll hop into it.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Maybe I'll hop into it this year, though does it
have even more than snowbird?
I think snowbird is three,three something.
Yeah, snowbird has almost four.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, that's a great course too.
Snowbird's sick yeah, it's afun one too yeah, yeah I got
totally derailed here I startedtalking about that dude, I'm
curious to see like your, yourrelationship with like
competition, especially likehaving grown up around it, like
are you an extremely competitiveperson, like oh yeah oh, let's
hear it.
Tell me like on a level of likeone to psycho like where do you

(35:04):
, where do you stand?

Speaker 2 (35:05):
I'm not.
I'm not quite psycho like it,I'm only psycho about some
things.
But I'm not like one of thosepeople like, no matter what I'm
doing, I have to be the absolutebest, like that's that psycho.
I'm probably.
You know, if psycho's a 10, I'mprobably like maybe a 7 to 8
and then.
But then on things that I careabout, I I'm like I want to be

(35:25):
the best, obviously, and so.
So yeah, but on on, you know,it really depends on what it is
Like.
I've had my days in let's takepickleball, for example.
I have had my days inpickleball where I'm, like you
know, ready to freaking, breakthe paddle over your knee, kind
of thing, like.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
So I have my moments, no doubt but what, uh, what
shoes do you like to run in Like, what's your, what's your
favorite shoe right now?

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, my go-to, my go-to trail shoe right now is
the um, the new balance.
Trying to see if I have them inhere, I can't remember what
they're called.
They're the New Balance TrailRacer.
So, like they have the.
Oh, one second, I know I've gotit here.
It's for the roads Becauseobviously over the winter months

(36:16):
I do a lot more road runningbecause the trails are just
destroyed in Utah.
I mean, there's always snow orrain or something.
And so for the roads, right nowI really enjoy the, the Saucony
line, so like the endorphinspeeds, the pros, the elites,
that kind of stuff for, like forspeed work and and and like
racing, et cetera.
But for the trails, I reallylike the new balance fuel cells.

(36:41):
Yeah, the new balance fuel cellsc trail.
Okay, cool dude, I didn't evenknow that was a like they how
about that new balance?
no, I I didn't know either until, uh, a friend of mine, blaze,
got a pair and he was like Ithink you would like these.
And I was like, okay, and sothey're on sale.
So I was like, why not?
Might as well try them?
And yeah, and I tried them andI, freaking for training, like

(37:04):
technically it's a racer shoe,but it's not.
It's not built like most otherracer shoes, it's not like as
crazy and aggressive.
And so I yeah, I, I love it fortraining right now.
Like they're super comfortableand they don't have a high stack
height, which for me, like Idon't understand how people run
trail races in high stack shoes.

(37:25):
Like I feel so just unstable,like I like to feel low,
centered to the ground, you know, and so like, like, for example
, the the adidas terex racingshoe I'm like the stack height
on those things is like it'slike a road marathon shoe.
I'm like how do people it's anankle break.
Wait to happen yeah like how doyou whip around corners in that

(37:46):
sucker?
Like I don't understand it.
I wore him for one race andthen I haven't worn him since.
I was like no, I rolled myankle too many times.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
I was like I'm not, not going back yeah, yeah, dude,
other than that, I also reallylike the solomons.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Solomon has really good trail shoes, and so I like
those as well.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
But nice dude.
Yeah, I I'm interested to hear.
I've never heard like I got tocheck out the new balance and
see what they got going on yeah,that's cool.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
I, yeah, I like them, they're nice, they're the um.
Yeah, they're these guys okayyeah, like a bright.
They're like a bright green andyeah, they're just new balance
fuel cell sc trail, so I likethem a lot.
They're really good fortraining yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
All right, dude.
I want to talk more about thetrail team a little bit.
One of the things that I reallylike about it is the um is the
mentorship component.
Um, what are you excited aboutthat part like, are you looking
forward?
Do they?
Has andy told you who the newmentors are going to be this
year?
You don't have to tell them onthe podcast, because we don't
think it's been announced yet,but I, yeah, we've got.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
I mean, we talked about it a little bit, but I
haven't actually talked with anyof them, uh, or met any of them
yet, and so, yeah, as far asthe mentorship program goes,
like I'm right now I don't knowa whole lot about it.
To be honest, I was like Ihaven't, yeah, I haven't.
Yeah, I'm not sure if he'sannounced who it is yet.

(39:10):
Yeah, he hasn't said it yet.
I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I feel like to me I don't know as an athlete, like
if you were an athlete coming upin the sport like that, I think
that's such an amazingcomponent.
Right Is to be able to connectwith these.
You know, like I know, in thepast he's had Grayson Murphy,
like Adam Peterman, you know,some of the biggest names in
folks have gone through the sameexact stuff that you're going
through and just understand itlike in a much more intimate way
.
So I think that's like such akey component to like

(39:36):
progression and getting betterand learning more about the
sport and stuff.
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, no, I agree, it is really cool and I'm and I'm
excited to meet them and talkwith them, like it's.
It's really helpful to, likeyou said, talk with people that
have gone through what you'vegone through.
And so, yeah, I mean, whetherthat's just general running and
racing advice or as specific, asyou know, what do I need to do

(40:00):
to amp up my resume so thatcompanies you know are are
attracted to you know, like, howdo I, how do I help build my
sponsorship and stuff like that?
And so, yeah, it's, I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
It's a delicate dance .
I'm excited for you to kind oflike start going through that
process after, after this yearand start like, uh, like, in
different brands, cause like thereason I say is cause I'm so
excited man Like Brooks is likeit'd been investing so much on
like the sub ultra side.
A lot of brands have been likelike more so, like pushing their
investment in sub ultra, whichI like.
Do you?
Are you like career wise, like,is that something you think

(40:36):
you're going to chase for awhile?
Is more sub ultra?
Or are you like ultra curious,like what?
What's like, what distanceslike excite you right now?

Speaker 2 (40:43):
I.
I definitely gonna stick withthe sub ultra for for at least a
while, but you've got talentlike supreme at it, so yeah like
it's just I don't know talkingabout it, yeah, like it's just I
don't know, it's kind of likehow on the road, it's how, like
in the half marathon, you'reable to push yourself like so
hard the whole time.
But then in the marathon, likeyou've got to kind of pace
yourself Like I like thesub-ultra scene on the trails,

(41:06):
Like just being able to, youknow, even if it's as short as a
Cirque race, like up to youknow 23, 28 K of like the golden
trail races, like they're justshort enough to where you can
push yourself so hard the wholetime, and it's like it's just so
much fun, like you can just besprinting down these Hills and
being like this is what I haveto do to win, you know, like

(41:28):
it's not even an option.
Like if you want to compete andyou want to win, like you have
to go fast the whole time, um,and that's just so much fun to
me, like I love running fast, Um.
And then I also think thatmaybe the 50 K as speed goat
kind of scared me off from thatjust a little bit.
Like that was just such abrutal experience that I was

(41:51):
like man, like these shorterraces even though they're still
so hard, like there it's just somuch more enjoyable, um, and
then another really big part ofit is, uh, to jump up to the
ultra scene.
Like you have to have more timeto train, yeah, and like with
working a full-time job, likeI'm already up at you know, I'm

(42:13):
up at 4 30 AM to work out, andthen I go to work all day and
then I work out again in theafternoon and then I eat dinner
and I go to bed.
It's like I don't even knowwhere I would.
I don't even know where I'd fitmore time in my day to get
those extra miles that that youjust are essential to bumping up
to another distance, um.

(42:35):
And so, yeah, there's kind ofmultiple reasons, but mainly
it's it's just enjoyment of thesub ultra races, like they're
just so much fun and they'regetting so much more competitive
that it's like I feel like inthe past there was kind of more
of a desire and a need becausefor one, there was more money in
the ultra, and then for two,that's where, like that's where

(42:55):
the competition went, like whenthey did really good at the sub
ultra, then they're like, okay,it's time to go to the next
level.
Now I feel like there's no needto go to the next level anymore
, like people are staying in thesub ultra scene and just
getting faster and faster andfaster and just more and more
competitive.
And so I'm like, well, I, youknow, if I don't need to jump,
I'm not going to.
Like I, I like the races I'mdoing now and it's extremely

(43:19):
competitive and it's gettingmore popular, and so I just want
to, I just want to help thatgrow.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Honestly, oh, I love that answer, man.
Yeah, I think that's especiallyfor someone like me that
follows and like, like, coversthe sport like.
The biggest question I'm askingall the time is like why in
america are we so ultra centric,like sub ultra?
Yeah and this is like I meanlisten, ultra is really cool and
exciting it is yeah, I love oursport and I'm not saying

(43:45):
anything bad about it.
I'm just saying that like subultra is just so much like for
me as an athlete, like dude, howmuch fun is it to train your
ass off and then go smashyourself at a race Like it is?
Oh yeah, it is like I don't knowwhat that endorphin hit is like
I don't know, like likeanything else like that in life.
So I don't know, like I findsub ultra to be so much more
attractive because it's likethese.

(44:06):
Not only are the distancesapproachable for, like a
newcomer to the sport right,you've got the 10k mountain
classic distance, you've got vks, just things like that but like
you have the ability to justget everything out of yourself
if you push yourself super hard.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
So I don't know, I'm saying that ultra is this.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
It's just a different type of pain, I think, and yeah
, for sure and I think the onething that, like, we plan to do
better is, like from a mediaperspective, is like
storytelling, like being able totell your guys's stories better
, so that way, like you're amore relatable character and the
sport to someone that would bean ultra or, you know, the
average person I think that'ssomething we haven't done very

(44:44):
well in sub ultra is to be ableto tell the stories of these
athletes, and I think that'ssomething like with more
improvement and as the sportdevelops and grows, like they'll
be like a stronger americancontingent.
That like like a fan base, ifyou will, for these athletes.
That makes it kind of easier tofollow along because, yeah,
that's what we're missing, man,we need a bigger fan base.
like in the euro scene is socrazy, like these people um you

(45:06):
know, like they'll these peoplehike up in races in the middle
of like zagama and stuff likethat and they're ringing their
cowbells and it's like a wholebig thing and I'm like we need
that in the States, like thatneeds to happen.
So let me ask you this You'relike, dude, you're a structured
guy and you're young.
Like, how do you like that?
Like, as far as, like you know,you could be hanging out with

(45:27):
your friends, but instead you'reworking a full-time job and
you're training your ass offlike morning, noon and night.
Like how much excitement do youget out of that?
Like, you sound like a verydriven, stoked guy to go perform
, like to go perform and pursuethis goal.
Like is that?
Is that what that's about?
Like what that is?
Or like you tell me.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I love like, I mean I'm not gonna,
you know, lie and be like, oh,getting up at 4.30 brings me
pure joy.
Everyone has their days whenthey're like, oh man, the alarm
goes off and you're like Ididn't sleep well last night, et
cetera, et cetera.
But no, at the end of the day,I really, really enjoy working

(46:07):
out hard and pushing myself dayin and day out and it just
brings a whole different levelof satisfaction, like when I
make a plan at the beginning ofthe week and be like, okay, like
this is the mileage I'm goingto hit, these are the workouts
I'm going to do.
You know, these days I'mgetting up at this time, et
cetera, et cetera.
And then, once that plan hasbeen made, then, like, if I

(46:30):
stick with that until the end ofthe week, it just brings a
deeper level of satisfactionthan deciding to sleep in one
morning and skip.
I'll just do my PM workouttoday.
I don't need my AM workout.
It won't make a difference assoon as I wake up after hitting
that snooze and I get up at 6.

(46:50):
Instead of 430, I'm like thattwo hours wasn't worth it.
Like, not a single time do Isleep those extra two hours and
be like, oh that I'm so glad Imade that decision.
Like, no, like I just I find somuch more joy and so much more
satisfaction out of getting up,sticking to the plan, putting in
the hard work and the miles,and then you know whether or not

(47:15):
it actually ends up paying offon race day, because it doesn't
always.
You know, you have bad days,you have bad races, like that
happens to everybody, and soit's like but it doesn't matter
though, because the journey toget there was still just so fun
and so satisfying, and so Idon't know, it always just it
always seems to pay off and beworth it in the end you seem
like a process guy.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Like I did something.
I like I love the process samedude there's nothing more fun
than like preparing and likemaking sure there's no stir,
stone unturned oh, for sure,isn't that, like I don't know,
for sure I feel like I'm talkingto a younger, younger version
of myself here.
This is yeah, no, it's.
It's so great like I eventalking to a younger version of
myself here.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
This is amazing.
No, it's so great Like I evenhave to catch myself at times
being like okay, like last year,one of the main mistakes that I
made was I trained too hard tooearly in the season so that by
the end of the season I wasdealing like fending off
injuries and exhaustion and youknow, et cetera, and you know,

(48:14):
etc.
Um, and so this year around,I'm like, okay, the beginning of
my season might, you know, besacrificed a little bit, but
like I'm gonna finish the end ofthe season a lot stronger,
which is which is the mainproblem that I had last year.
And so, like right now, likeI'm only doing one workout a day
and I'm like I'm counting downthe weeks until I get to start
doing my ams again.
And so it's like there's just,like you you know, there's this

(48:34):
excitement of like oh, like theprocess of like slowly building
and just getting faster andstronger and more disciplined is
like, like I said, like it'sjust so fun and it's so
satisfying that like I'm likeI'm itching to get back into it.
I'm like, hey, like you got totake your time, you got to learn

(48:58):
your lessons from last year,like, if you go too hard now
then, and because it's hard,like you, you, you catch
yourself doing it all the time.
You're like I need to be asbest as I can right now.
And I'm like, if I'm as best asI am right now, the season is
so long that six months down theroad I'm gonna be battling all
these things where it's like ifI just start out a little slower
and be a little more patientbut I mean, everyone struggles
being patient Like it's so hardto be patient, but sometimes you

(49:21):
just got to do it, and sothat's where I'm at right now.
I'm like I'm so ready to get tothe next process to get things
really rolling, but I'm like youjust gotta be patient, you just
gotta be patient.
Like it's just a few more weeksand yeah Anyways.
But I love the process, it'sgreat, it's so much fun.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
It's the best sport on earth.
Like to be able to like running.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
It's so much fun, Right?
And the fact that like you hiton.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
something like I love is like when you can reward
yourself with a workout, whenyou get in that mindset and like
you're like craving it and likelooking forward to like, the
like, the like, whatever kind ofsession it would be, but just a
hard session Like those are thebest, yeah, it's that's fun,
man.
I could say are you, um, do you, are you coached by anyone?

(50:07):
Or do you work?
Uh, do you train yourself?
No, I train myself train myself.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, I, I thought about in the past, um, either
asking my dad, uh, if he hassome stuff, um going back to a
whole old high school coach orcollege coach, or even just
finding a completely new coach.
But, um, I mean kind of to goalong with like the process of
all.
Like I like to build my own,like I feel confident that like

(50:34):
okay, I've been running longenough that like I know kind of
what key sessions I need to hitand what you know what mileage
works best for me, et cetera.
I mean, that's something that Istruggled with in college was
like our coach would set stuffup and like we would just kind
of I was stubborn, he wasstubborn and we just kind of

(50:55):
bash heads and you know, we get,we get into our fights
sometimes.
Um, and so when I graduatedcollege, I was like I was so
excited and happy to just beable to train myself and be like
okay, this is what I want to doand this is how I want to do it
.
But like I've never gone backand I don't know right now, I
don't see that changing anytimein the near future.

(51:17):
I think I just I don't know, Ienjoy too much building my own
process and being like all right, this is what we're going to do
and just sticking to it.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
But I like that man.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
You know what there's ?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
something to be said about, like selfcoaching, and I
think some people can benefitreally well from it, but others
For instance, I now coach myselfand I've drastically expanded
my fitness.
I've done a lot of things thatI probably wouldn't have done
had I had a coach and it'sworked or continues to work.
So I'm like I don't know.
I think different people indifferent spots of their career

(51:49):
could benefit from it, or theaverage person maybe in
different spots of their careercould benefit from it, or the
average person maybe, but Ithink certain people, it works
just being able to be committedto the process, and if you don't
need someone to motivate you,that's half the battle already,
if you're already self-motivatedand you just figure out your
own workouts, then yeah, it'snot, you don't need somebody to
do it.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
So yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
All right, dude, so we're cutting down.
Now I'm gonna starting to gettight on time, so I want to
pivot to awesome endingquestions.
I'm very curious to see whoinspires you yeah, I mean heck
freaking.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Most recently, andy man, I just saw his, uh, his
road races that he's throwingdown right now, like and he's a
monster, I can't remember, dude,his road races that he's
throwing down right now, like Ican't remember, there's
something like that.
I was like I was mind blown man.
I was like holy cow, likefreaking, taking a little step

(52:45):
back from the trails and hittingthe roads and he's just killing
it.
I was like that is, that'sawesome.
I was like I'm so, I'm so happyfor him and excited for to see
what he can do for the rest ofthe year.
And so I mean, most recently,andy has been super inspiring.
Um, I mean, in the past, uh, Imean we kind of talked about it
earlier.
But Christian, I mean really,uh, you know, getting with Nike

(53:09):
and making that, you know, likedream of his come true, that was
awesome.
That's definitely something I'mtrying to do myself.
And then Hobie, my dad, for sureHim probably the biggest of all
, just because, like you said, Igot to see it from a young age
unfold Everything from hisdreams to being an Olympic

(53:33):
marathoner.
Um, that just didn't quite panout, but then, um, I mean he
still did amazing.
I mean he still ran like a likea two 16,.
I think there's like stillreally awesome racing, um.
But then even more so than thatthough, like kind of having
rough times after the Olympictrials and then picking himself

(53:56):
back up and getting revampedinto like OCR and like just
being just as happy about acompletely different side of
running but still have just asmuch joy and passion in it Like
that was super inspiring.
As well as much joy and passionin it Like that was super
inspiring as well, um.
So yeah, I mean I'm sure I'msure there have been others

(54:19):
throughout my life as well, butI think those are the.
Those are the first three thatpopped to mind.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
No, that's a perfect, I think, dude Andy, especially
right now, like Jesus, like Imean, yeah, I gotta, yeah, I
gotta hand it to him.
Um and do Christian.
One of the things you said is,like you know I'm trying to live
out that.
You know that dream like isthere any brand in particular
that like you've had in mind fora long time that you like that
kind of calls to you, or is itmore so just the dream of being

(54:43):
a professional athlete?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Um, it's mainly just the dream of being a
professional athlete.
Um, there's been a couplebrands that like I really like
their gear, um and so, but Imean other than that, though.
Like nobody is like reallystuck out, like as far as you
know, like like story-wise kindof thing, like nobody's been
like oh, like that's such aninspiring brand.

(55:07):
It's more just been like, oh,like I really like their gear.
You know, like I really likeracing in their shoes, so I want
to be sponsored by them, kindof a thing.
And so, no, nobody that likeI'm just dying to be sponsored
by me.
It's mainly just the idea oflike I mean, when it really
comes down to it, just someoneto help pay for races like Italy
.
You know, I'm like I just needlike a little support to be able

(55:33):
to get out there, do theamazing races that I want to do.
Like that's.
That's what is mainly comingdown to right now, um, and so,
yeah, honestly, just you know,whichever good company is able
to help me get there, that's I'mhappy with that.
So not too picky.
But dude.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Well, after the season, I'm sure you'll have,
you'll have a pick, you'll havea pick up them.
Um, all right, dude, if you'regetting ready for a race, it's a
serious race or a hard effort.
Like what are you listening to?
Like what, uh, what's yourfavorite?
What's your favorite tunebefore a race?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Um, honestly, I don't think I have one like, I don't
like, a lot of the time I'lljust turn on whatever is on the
radio.
I really I really don't havelike, uh, like a hype up song or
like playlists.
Um, I mean, most of the time Iwork out it's quiet, like I
usually don't run with music orwork out with music.
Um, most of the time it's justeither me and some friends or me

(56:37):
and my own thoughts, and sothat kind of translates over to
race day too.
Like, just, I don't know, I'mnot really used.
I'm not really used tolistening to music when I run,
and so it doesn't really popinto my head to do it before I
race.
I just whatever's on the radioas I'm driving up the canyon to
whatever ski resort the racehappens to be at, and that's
pretty much it I like it, dude,I you know there's something to

(57:01):
be said.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
It's very powerful about needing a song to like
hype you up or you just likepersonally, like get into that,
you can get your yeah I just getexcited.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I'm like heck, I mean it's hard.
Not like, once you get out ofthe car and you look at the
amazing mountain that you'reabout to either crush or get
crushed by, you're like it'shard not to get excited.
You're like, well, all right,my heart's racing, I don't need
anything else Like, all I needis to look at that peak and be
like that's lots of, it's a lotof climbing ahead of me.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
That does a lot of climbing ahead of me.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
That does the trick, are you?
Uh, do you get nervous at allon start lines?
Yeah, I mean, it depends on therace, like some more than
others.
Um, I used to get nervousreally bad in high school, um,
but I was able to get it a lotmore under control in college,
um, and then so, and then that'sjust kind of transferred over
to the trail racing.
And yeah, like the professionalraces I do now, I'll still get

(57:57):
nervous, but it feels like moreof an excitement energy than a
nervous energy, if that makessense.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
And so it's not too bad.
It's more just excited to getgoing and then as soon as the
gun goes off and like it alldisappears and it just turns
into adrenaline like just go, go, go and so.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
I like it.
That's cool.
Now it's interesting.
Man, like some people tell melike no, I don't get nervous.
And then some people are like,yeah, I'm like extremely nervous
and I feel like it just comeslike the cadence of racing, like
the more you race, the lessnervous you get, or the more you
just get used to it.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
It's like the first couple of races of the season
are always the most stressful,because you're like okay, it's
been a long break.
Like am I in the shape that Ithink I am?
What are the main things thatI'm going to need to work on?
You know stuff like that andthen.
But then, once you're a coupleraces into the season though,
you kind of get back into theflow of things and you're like
all right, it's just justanother day just another race,

(58:57):
just another day at the office,that's right.
Yeah, just another day at theoffice, that's right all right,
dude.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Last question I usually ask a stupid silly
question at the end.
This is like my mo um, it'susually something with aliens or
Bigfoot or like AI.
With you, I think I'm going toask like do you believe in
aliens?
What's your take on aliens?
I believe in aliens for sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
There's.
There's no way we're the ones.
Now I'm not saying I believe inyou know the six eyes green or
whatever kind of things, butyeah, there's.
There's no way, like there's somuch out there, there's no way
we're the only things.
There's.
There's no way, I believe.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I feel like I'm the same way oh man.
All right, dude.
Well, hawk, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast dude.
I hope this is the first ofmany conversations.
Obviously, you and I'll be intouch.
Literally we'll talk beforebroken arrow and we'll talk
before soon.
Ap is when we start to do racepreviews and stuff like that for
sure but, dude, I think this isa good starting point for your
story and and thank you so muchfor coming on to let me help
tell your story and, dude, I'mso psyched for your future.

(59:58):
Like I'm stoked man, I'm reallyexcited to have had you on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I've had a conversation thanks, yeah,
thanks for having me.
I'm super excited too, and so,yeah, all right, I'll see you at
some races that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Right, that's right.
I'll be in touch.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
Thanks so much for Hawk.
Uh to Hawk for coming on.
Um, like I said, want to give abig shout out to Hawk for, uh,
you know, making the trail teamelite team for 2025.
And, uh, yeah, like I said, I'mso excited for where this and
it's going to be fun to seewhere his future goes over the

(01:00:33):
next few years.
Guys, follow him on Instagram,hop on Instagram, give him a
follow.
That's going to be at Hawkunderscore call.
So that's Hawk underscoreC-A-L-L.
Like I said, give him a follow.
He's got some entertainingrails, actually.
On Instagram he posts some goodstuff on his training, what
he's been up to over the springand winter, for some of his
off-season training and justsome of his stuff that he's got

(01:00:54):
going on.
So definitely give him a follow.
I'm sure he'd appreciate that.
Yeah, guys, before you getgoing, if you enjoyed this
episode, please give us afive-star rating and review on
Apple, spotify or wherever youconsume your podcasts.
Have a great rest of your week.
Thanks so much, thank you.

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#89 - Hawk Call - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#89 - Hawk Call - 2025 Trail Team Elite Selection