April 26, 2025 • 41 mins
Shay Aquilano's remarkable transformation from college soccer player to elite ultrarunner showcases what's possible when passion meets purpose in the mountains. Having recently captured the Gorge Waterfalls 100K championship and secured a coveted Western States lottery spot, Shay joins the Steep Stuff Podcast to walk us through her unique journey into the ultrarunning world.
Unlike many elite trail runners, Shay didn't come from a competitive running background. She discovered running during COVID lockdowns while studying neuroscience at Notre Dame, initially hitting trails with her parents at local parks in Indiana. What began as a pandemic coping mechanism evolved into a profound connection with ultrarunning, which she beautifully describes as "life distilled" - a raw experience where you encounter all the highs, lows, doubt, and joy played out over miles of trail.
The conversation takes us through Shay's pivotal decision to relocate from flat Indiana to mountainous Boulder - a move she calls her "best decision of 2023." Now training alongside fellow elites while maintaining her unique approach, Shay has been selected as one of two ultra specialists on the prestigious Trail Team Elite. This recognition provides crucial infrastructure and mentorship that was missing during her early development in the Midwest.
Shay shares fascinating insights into her training philosophy, nutrition strategy (working with dietician Kylie Van Horn), and mental approach to ultrarunning. Rather than fixating on heart rate zones or rigid fueling protocols, she prioritizes perceived exertion and has found her personal sweet spot around 60-70 grams of carbohydrates per hour during races. Her pre-race music choice? "Stacy's Mom," because as she puts it, "you can't have the ultra sads" while listening to that song.
What stands out most is Shay's refreshingly grounded perspective despite her rapid rise in the sport. While discussing her upcoming Western States 100 debut, she emphasizes longevity over immediate results: "I want to be a long-term athlete and a sustainable runner... I want to still be doing this when I'm 80 years old." Join us for this inspiring conversation with one of ultrarunning's brightest rising stars, and discover why the ultra trail community is, in her words, "humanity at its greatest."
This episode is brought to you by Ultimate Direction use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your next order on UltimateDirection.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, James Lauriello,and today I'm so excited to
welcome Ms Shay Aquilano to thepodcast.
I'm really excited to finallyhave a conversation with Shay.
You guys might know that namebecause she just became the
champion about a week and a halfago, of the Gorge Waterfalls
100K race in Cascade Locks,Oregon, and punched her ticket
(00:21):
back to the World MountainRunning Championship for the
long trail.
Aside from that, Shea wasactually a selection for the
2025 trail team elite team.
One of two athletes selected inthe ultra capacity, which is
cool.
So now we kind of got thedivision between sub ultra and
ultra on the trail team, whichis pretty neat.
Yeah, Shea is an absolute worldbeater.
(00:43):
She's going to be going toWestern States this year.
Got in on a lottery spot uh,might actually be.
I mean, she's my pick to be thefirst women to win the race
since Kat Bradley.
Um, off of a lottery spot,which would be pretty cool.
Um, she also had a great finishas black at black cannon as
well.
Talk about all of these thingsin the episode.
It's a great one.
Um, I can't wait to actuallyhave Shay back on.
This was kind of a briefepisode, so I'm excited to have
(01:05):
her on in the long form andreview in the coming months,
especially for her WesternStates build.
So congrats to her, Reallyexcited to see her going back to
Worlds.
And yeah, guys, have a greatone.
Hope you enjoy this one.
It's time.
(01:31):
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen.
(02:17):
We are live.
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let me know what you guys think.
Shay Aquilano, welcome to theSteep Stuff Podcast.
(03:26):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'm good Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
How's your day going?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
No, I'm going pretty well.
Nothing too crazy happening.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Nice, nice.
I know it's crazy, you're inBoulder, right.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I am yeah, yeah, front range.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I'm down in Colorado Springs and the weather was so
nice last week and now it'sstarting to turn again.
It's like no spring is so likekind of hit and miss here.
Sometimes it's good, sometimesit's not so good.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, this is actually, yeah, my first winter
and spring living in Boulder,because I moved here end of July
last year.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Where'd you move from ?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Indiana.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh my gosh Flatland.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, very different?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Are you originally from Indiana?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, yeah, I grew up there, went to school at Notre
Dame.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So born and raised, Wow, oh my gosh, notre Dame.
So I can't make any Michiganjokes then, because I'm a
Michigan fan.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh no, can't hate on Notre Dame, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now, notre Dame is a cool school, though.
What was it like going there?
Tell me about that experience.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, I mean I had a great time I studied
neuroscience and behavior, butthat area it's kind of just like
Notre Dame it's in its ownlittle bubble in South Bend,
indiana, and there's not a wholelot outside of that, so to
speak.
Definitely not a lot of trails,a lot of flat road.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Did you run for them specifically?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
No, I didn't no Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I couldn't find it.
I did a little bit of researchfor this one.
I just wanted to make sure Ididn't.
So what was that like then?
How did you get into therunning scene then?
How did that come about for you?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah Well, I actually didn't start running until
after my last soccer season inhigh school and then kind of
just picked it up for fun.
That was right around whenCOVID hit.
So we were sent home myfreshman year of school and,
yeah, I was just at home tryingto find stuff to do and was
running more to stay sane insane.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Fair enough, fair enough, uh, so you just started
running.
All right, let's backtrack thisa little bit, because this is
such an interesting thing for me, because I I meet a lot of
people that, like most of thepeople in our sport like come
from like a track and fieldbackground, but I'd say, like
soccer might be like the secondlike that's where that's the
world I come from is like thesoccer, kind of the soccer realm
.
Where did like trails come from?
Like how did?
Is this some interest?
Or like, where did like kind ofyou saw some like, did you find
(05:48):
it on youtube, instagram, like,like, because you've kind of
like evolved into this likereally well-known trail runner
now and it's like become likekind of a pseudo career.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So like, tell me about that um, so yeah, I'm not
really not entirely sure if itwas any one thing that brought
me to trails.
I know I started running alittle bit with my parents after
soccer ended, just for fun, andwe would go to a local park and
do some trail running there.
And yeah, there's justsomething different about the
(06:20):
trails compared to road and likeit brings a different energy,
and the people who do itapproach it in a slightly
different way, and I thinkthat's what kind of got me
intrigued in the first placenice.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
What was the first race that you did?
You signed up for it, that youlike hopped into.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You're like I'm hooked yeah, well, the first one
I did was actually a virtual50k um, because it was during
covid um, I don't even thinklike that kind of thing is on
ultra sign up.
But if I were to go back tolike my first official ultra, it
would be the eight hour dreamendurance race in indianapolis
(06:57):
nice and just like you gothooked from it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Or like what you was like immediately I gotta go do
more of these.
Or like what was the takeawayfrom it?
Like tell me about thatexperience.
Like you just like picked arandom place to go run a 50k or
I what you was like immediatelyI gotta go do more of these.
Or like what was the takeawayfrom it?
Like, tell me about thatexperience.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Like you just like picked a random place to go run
a 50k or I mean, it was likelocal, it was easy to access,
like it was something I'd heardabout happening in past years.
So I'm like, yeah, like I'll,I'll try it um, but like why
ultras um, is that kind of thequestion?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
which is why, like, I guess, like just getting like
what about it was inspiring andlike got you hooked, like more
or less yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, I'd say it's one of those things that's hard
to describe unless, like, theperson themselves has also
experienced it, because it'smore than just about covering
the distance.
It truly feels like it's likelife distilled, and that was
really intriguing to me.
Like you get to experiencethese highs, these lows, doubt,
(07:52):
joy, um, just like played outover miles and miles and yeah,
so like it's hard to explain toanyone why you would willingly
want to do those things and likepush yourself to the edge and
like go further.
But, um, yeah, for people thathave done it like, the answer is
is simple like it's, it's real,um, it's the closest thing to,
(08:14):
like the purest and rawest formof life and humanity you can get
to, and I think that's prettycool.
Like betrayal community iswhere it's at all.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right, that was a good answer.
I got it out of you.
All right, I like it, I like it.
So you just relocated toBoulder, more or less like how,
how has that transition been foryou?
Like moving from Indiana to try, and you know, boulder's a
really interesting place.
There's a lot of professionalathletes.
It can be overwhelming at timesfor people.
I feel like like what, whatdoes that like for you?
It?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
can be overwhelming at times for people.
I feel like like what, whatdoes that like for you?
Um, so yeah, it was actuallyprobably my best decision of
2024.
Um, I moved here kind ofwithout a plan, without a job,
um, just kind of see where itwould go.
I did have connections with thetrail team here in Boulder, so
I think in that regard it was aneasy transition, so to speak.
(09:05):
I mean, definitely verydifferent than Indiana and many
different ways.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's beengreat.
I've learned a lot and, yeah,really found my footing here.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Is it like easy to find, like, do you train with a
group of people or are you moreof like a solo trainer?
Like how does that work for you?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Um, definitely a mix.
I do enjoy running alone, but Ialso like mixing it up with
running with people and I think,like I do run with the trail
team here in Boulder, there's abig group of athletes around my
age, but also part of thegreater community as well.
That just everyone is so niceand, yeah, so friendly, so it's
(09:47):
been great yeah, no, it's supercool.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It's just like a um, I don't know, just like the
community I feel like just is soinspiring and just gets you.
Gets you out the door, even ifyou don't want to get out the
door.
It's like a there's alwayssomething to do, always people
to hang with.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's it's a fun place yeah, there was always
something going on or someone torun with.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Do you find and I asked this to everybody that's
from Boulder, I literally justasked Bailey Kowalski this other
day Do you find it any pressureto have to?
The reason I ask this isbecause Boulder is such a
pressure cooker of it.
There's athletes everywhere.
So do you find pressure to haveto go be doing stuff, like even
if maybe you're injured or ifyou're having downtime in your
block, like, or do you, are youable to just turn that off and
(10:31):
just kind of just do your thing?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Um, I w I don't really feel the pressure.
Um, I know there's a lot oflike people doing crazy things,
but at some point you just haveto stay in your own lane and
like run true to you and so like, for me, maybe that's I'm not
playing it cool all the time,being a little chaotic, but yeah
, just doing things how I'mdoing them and yeah, it's fun.
(10:57):
It's running is fun, so itshouldn't be anything more than
that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh, it's a beautiful approach.
I I, yeah, I always ask becauseit's just interesting to hear
how people think about it, justbecause, like I don't know, like
I'm not a big Strava person,just because I always feel like
there's you know, sometimes youget FOMO, it's like, oh my gosh,
I should be doing this and it'slike you know.
Meanwhile you just have to stayfocused on what you're doing.
Um so for you, you're aninteresting like selection.
Like you, you got.
(11:20):
You made it on the trail teamelite this year, which was
amazing.
But like usually, trail team isa little more sub ultra focus.
You're more of a little bit ofan ultra focus.
So I like that.
I like that Andy's expandingthe team Congratulations, Thank
you.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, what's that?
What does that mean to you,like?
How exciting is this of anopportunity for you?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I mean it's.
It's amazing.
Yeah, coming from and growingup in Indiana, there's very few
trails.
I mean there is a small trailcommunity there, but growing up
there I always felt a little bitdisconnected from the greater
trail community, especially witha lot of it centered more on
stuff happening out West and soI don't know.
(12:02):
I feel like I ran into a lot ofthe same obstacles that maybe
people around my age coming fromtrack and cross country did,
like right now there's not a lotof infrastructure to help
support younger athletes tryingto make it in the sport and like
even especially for me, like Ihad no running background
whatsoever, um coming intocollege.
(12:22):
So I think that just emphasizedthe need for support and how to
navigate the sponsorship worldwho to know who to talk to and
what working in the industrycould potentially look like and
how to just navigate all of that.
So, yeah, it's been super cool.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's amazing.
I think it's a great answer too.
One of the things for me, Idon't know, I just feel like
that stuck out.
Probably I'd say maybe you andHawk, I think, are the two like
selections for the team that,like I, like I knew names of
already, like from theselections, like you're already,
I would say, like very advancedand like very just, like you
have a lot of experience in thetrail space, let's put it that
(13:02):
way.
So, like what is?
So I guess you could tell melike what does that look like
for you?
Are you more so now trying tobridge that gap of looking for
sponsors, um, over the next like12 months and stuff like that?
Like cause you've had quite afew, you know fantastic finishes
and I feel like you're, you'rekind of like in that space now.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So I mean.
I mean, yes, it woulddefinitely be great to have um
extra support.
It would definitely make mylife, like financially easier
and ability to travel and get tothe races I want to race, um.
So in that regard, yes, butalso I feel like I'm a very
values driven runner.
So like, first and foremost, Ineed to keep my why behind, why
(13:42):
I run.
So like when I first started, Ithe feeling that I wanted to
raise was keeping the magic, theawe, the joy and the wonder at
the forefront, and I just wantto maintain that.
So, yeah, it would be a veryintentional partnership if I
ever were to find one, but rightnow it's being sponsored.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I like that.
Which shoes do you like to runin?
What's your jam right now?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right now I've been running in the North Face and
then also recently the prodigiopro.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, so I'm glad I feel like that's the the shoe
everybody's picking now thesedays, I like yeah, heck yeah
yeah, well, sportiva is rightdown the street from you, so it
is a little segue.
We need more ultra ladies onthe team.
That'd be awesome.
Um, yeah, so what's?
What's the 2025 schedulelooking like?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, so actually coming up April 12th I'll be
running Gorge Waterfalls 100K,so pretty excited about that.
And then come June, westernStates 100 miler Wait, did you?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
draw.
You drew in the lottery, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I forgot all about that.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
We'll talk about that , we'll get to that, because I
just think that's.
That's a fun conversation.
Let's talk Gorge first.
I do want to get into that,like obviously that's a
selection race, um, really stout, going to be a lot of strong
ladies there.
I think it's like an amazingopportunity for someone like you
um, you know to really catapultyourself in the sport.
Like is the goal to try and geton the long trail team get
(15:17):
yourself spot.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You know, I would definitely accept a spot if I
were offered one or I got toptwo, but I think, um, mostly
it'll be just getting morepractice at racing when the
depth is deep.
So putting myself in the fightand just seeing what happens,
and, yeah, I'm really, reallyexcited about it.
I haven't ever been to Oregon,so this will be good.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh, you're in for a treat.
That course is beautiful.
Like I, my wife ran the 50K afew years ago and we went out
there for it was like the firstyear I think Dylan took over the
race and like that course is sonice, it's like sneaky
technical, it's like rainy andjust like dreary, it's typical
pacific northwest and just likeI don't know.
I find that stuff would be likeutterly beautiful and it's like
(15:56):
got just enough climbing andbut it's all runnable.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, it's good stuff I'm glad to hear that sounds
great.
You're gonna like it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
The 100k is a long.
Obviously it's a long way, notfor someone like you who runs
these long distances, but Idon't know, to me it's a long
course.
Yeah, you're in for a serioustreat and it like ends like near
an ice cream stand, which iskind of dope, like in cascade
locks.
Yeah, it's pretty dope.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Right on yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's a cool race.
All right, let's.
Let's pivot to Western States alittle bit Cause.
So you drew in the lottery,like how many years had you been
putting your name in the hat totry and get in?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
How did that work?
I had eight tickets, so I guessthree, four years, four years.
It was my fourth year, yeah,and I got it.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
That's not too bad.
That's pretty solid.
Wow, all right.
So what are you looking for themost about Western States?
Because that's a big danceright there.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Oh man, I haven't even like I've thought about it,
but I got to get through Gorgefirst.
Um, yeah, I'm just super soakedon it because that's definitely
been a dream bucket list racefor me, so just excited to be
able to take part in it, forsure.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
What is uh training been like for you so far?
Just getting ready for Gorgeand as well as, I guess, like
Western States on the back endof that.
Just what eight weeks later?
Or something like that.
Like what, um, yeah, what iswhat?
Has the blocks been lookinglike a lot of speed?
Like what have you been workingon?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so I mean heading into um, black Canyon
and then also earlier in thisblock was doing some VO2 work
and tempo work, um, and thentransitioned into more like
endurance, effort, length ofstuff, um, and also, yeah, since
Western is my eight race, justplaying around with some things
(17:37):
that I think could work in thetraining block leading up to
Western States, like my coachand I have been implementing a
heat training block leading upto gorge, while gorge
necessarily not necessarily willbe warm, but Western will so.
Like just seeing how my bodyresponds to that super cool.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Who do you work with as a coach?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
uh ryan anderson okay , very cool.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
What is um?
Do you think boulders?
I mean, I just feel likeboulders so conducive for
getting ready for like a racefor western states, like just
endless amounts of like dirtroads and yes technique like
some, some techie descends somegood things in there.
Um yeah, what do you been,what's your been your go-to?
Like you hit gold hill, likeeverybody else, like what's
what's the deal there?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
gold hills road.
Basically yeah, um no, I meanhonestly like I've been doing
stuff all over right now likemostly the lower trails are
what's clear and dry right now.
So I've been doing a lot ofthat stuff.
But honestly, like just happyto be able to run on trails
(18:44):
Indiana not a lot of trails, sojust yeah, it's been game
changing to transition most ofmy runs to get on trails this
year.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You got lucky.
Your first winter here waspretty warm.
I'm not going to lie on thefront range.
It gets way worse.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's what people were telling me.
I'm like this isn't bad.
Indiana winters are so muchworse.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I spent a summer in Michigan and like oh my God, I
didn't see the sun for likeeight weeks.
It was terrible yeah, Michiganand like, oh my God, like I
didn't see the sun for likeeight weeks.
It was terrible.
Yeah, I don't know how peopledeal with that.
It's absolutely brutal.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You get used to it, I guess yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
A lot of vitamin D got to continue.
Just take a lot of vitamin D,yeah, so I don't know.
I feel like Boulder is such agood place for you like to train
and get ready for a race likethat.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Are you?
Have you linked up with anyoneelse that's in western states,
that's in the boulder area,that's getting ready as well, or
no?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
um, so I've done a couple runs with riley so far,
but yes, that's an amazingperson to run with oh my god.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, need to reach out to other people to get more
training partners super cool,super cool.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So what, uh, what would be?
Obviously I feel like yourfront end of your uh, I guess
like racing calendar is prettystacked, but like what would be?
Obviously I feel like yourfront end of your uh, I guess
like racing calendar is prettystacked, but like what would be
the plans for summer, justenjoying the summer, or after
western states, because that'spretty brutal so I mean after
western tbd, right now I'msigned up for ccc.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
um, unless worlds would, potentially, then I would
do that instead.
Okay, and then after that,thinking about JFK, 50 mile, but
still haven't committed toanything yet.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, that's so far out.
Oh my God, yeah, ccc would becool.
Have you ever ventured out toChamonix or like that area?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Never, so this would that would be a really cool
experience.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, I feel like every person that I know that
has gone out there for either tolike race out there or just
spend time, it completelychanges the way they view the
sport.
Like it's like soprofessionalized being out there
and then they come back toAmerica where it's like still
kind of like there's still agrassroots vibe here, so like
everybody comes back with likekind of a different view on the
sport, which is so I'm curiousto see how you grow and how that
(20:52):
works for you.
It's pretty cool thank you yeah, yeah.
So ccc, what do you think aboutthat course?
Like what's inspiring, like whywould you choose that over?
Like utmb is just the way thatlike fits in your schedule, or
like uh, stones that you had, orit was just the one I could get
into.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
okay, based on my utMB index score, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Super cool.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Simple answer.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, no easy enough.
All right, so we can pivot backto the trail team.
I'm just excited for you tohear, like has Andy talked to
you guys about, like, who thementors are going to be for this
year?
Like, how does that work?
Are you excited for any of thecamps that you guys do?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Like, what's the what's the schedule for you guys
?
You guys, yeah, well, the campschedule is is pretty cool.
Um, let's see, I don't have itpulled up, but we're there's a
grand lake camp in june, whichwould be great.
Um, definitely, I think there'sone in whistler, british
columbia.
Um, and then potentially one ingermany leading up to UTMB
between worlds and UTMB.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Very cool, All right, so that's good stuff.
Has he?
Has he said anything about whothe um, like the?
I guess he has picks likementors every year for like
people to mentor you guys?
Do you guys know who he's goingto be for this year?
Yet Not yet.
Not yet, so still surprised.
Did you get a chance to lastyear?
I think it was at the GrandLake one.
Did you link up with them andgo to the one at the Grand Lake?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I know there was a bunch of folks moved to Colorado
.
So I think I kind of kind ofknew that that like, yeah, I was
(22:36):
going to move and Andy andCarly were really helpful in
getting me out here.
So transition.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, no, super cool.
What was the um?
Talk to me about the experience, or just getting to hang with
everybody and like doing like atraditional camp and like
hanging with the team, like whatwas?
What was that experience likefor you?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
right out of college, maybe still in college and all
kind of at a similar point intheir life where they're trying
to transition and get into trailrunning and like figure out
what to do.
And yeah, like the saying goes,a rising tide lifts all boats.
And that's pretty much what thewhole week in Grand Lake felt
like, like we were all sleepingtogether in, like Giant.
And felt like like we were allsleeping together and like giant
and like an Airbnb um, packedin, it was great, eating
(23:37):
together, just like hanging out.
Yeah, nothing but good things.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
That's awesome.
Now it seemed like a like justan awesome experience and like I
don't know they had.
You know, there's just so manythings that I think you can like
learn from others and like howthey can all help you apply
different things.
For you know, there's just somany things that I think you can
like learn from others and likehow they can all help you apply
different things.
For you know, goal selectionand just all these different
things.
Now, as you've kind of evolvedand grown in the sport in the
last few years, like you're,like you've had a lot of success
, like obviously now withWestern States and a couple you
(24:04):
know some big races this year,like what I'm just curious, like
, how do you set your goals?
Like, is it more performancebased for you?
Is it just like finishing CauseI know these, these races are
tough and they're really long?
Like, how do you like set yourgoals accordingly for yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Um, when I'm planning out my year, it's kind of just
about what excites me the mostand then, leaning into that,
that's pretty much where I yeah,I get a lot of my race
inspiration or like what I wantmy goals to be.
And you know, like I've gotreally I've got.
I've got big dreams and size ofthe goals can't be rushed, Um,
(24:41):
but then again I'm really luckyto have big dreams at all that
fill me up.
And when things don't work out,you know I'm like, yeah, I'm
not there yet, but I want to be.
Things don't work out, you knowI'm like, yeah, I'm not there
yet, but I want to be, and sothat that just like drives my
training and, um, how I approachracing.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What are, what are your big dreams?
I'm curious.
I got to hear tell me.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Oh no, um, I mean, western States for a long time
has been one of my big dreams,and then I just want to be in
this sport for a while, like Iwant to be a long-term athlete
and a sustainable runner.
So I want to be able to stillbe doing this when I'm I don't
know, 80 years old.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
No, it's such a smart approach to it.
You see, a lot of folks come inthe sport.
You know a lot of people,especially in the longer stuff,
you know, overdo it.
Some people over train injuriespop up.
I feel like if you approach itfrom such a smart way, like it
sounds like you'll have so muchlongevity Plus the way feeling
is going now and the wayeverything's going, I just feel
(25:46):
like it sets runners up for morejust longevity in the sport,
which is awesome.
I'm so curious to likepiggyback off that question that
I just asked you is like whoinspires you then?
Like who who really inspiresyou in the sport to to chase
those goals and chase yourdreams?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I think there's a lot of people Um, I think one of
them is, or one of them, cominginto the sport was Courtney
DeWalter, because she doesthings her own way and it's
awe-inspiring.
Like this sport is absurd, it'shumbling, but Courtney is a
reminder that you can like racetrue to you and like.
(26:20):
That's kind of what the essenceof ultra running is about.
Um, it's not about like resultsor time or anything like that.
Um, it's more about yourexperience and what you make of
it, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Courtney's a good person to.
Yeah, courtney's the best.
Have you met her yet?
Yeah, I have not.
Oh my god, she's the like youwould never know.
Like I met her after she won,like dominated everybody at hard
rock, like happened to bewalking down the street in
Silverton.
I was like hey go, she's likeshe'll talk to you for like five
minutes.
She's the nicest person ever.
Um, yeah, that's a good personto to admire in the sport.
Um, all right, so kind of gotthrough the schedule.
(26:59):
What's like I'm so curious withyou because especially, like
you said, western states is soimportant to you.
Like what is the bucket listrace for you?
What's something you haven'tdone yet that just like is so
exciting?
Is there an fkt, like a longtrail fkt or something like that
that's on your mind, or a racelike what's something you
haven't done yet?
It's gotta be besides westernstates besides western states I
can't.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Western states, um, I don't know, maybe just like
utmb, like I'd love to seechamonix and get to race
internationally again, like thatwould be super cool.
Um, but outside of that, yeah,my interests are like evolving
and growing, so could changetomorrow.
I don't know super cool.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I'm so curious to get in your head about like long,
like ultra, just because, likeso many folks that are younger
in the sport come in and likethey're very focused on the 10K
or the mountain classic or theVK, like a lot of sub ultra
emphasis in younger, thesewhippersnappers these days,
these young people which I love,sub ultra, that's all I raise.
But it's so curious becausesome people you meet it's just
(28:04):
like how hard can I push myselffor a really long period of time
?
Is that more your take on it?
Or what drives you toward thatexploration?
Is it more so just build outthe pain cave?
What is it?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I think there's a really interesting connection
between mind and body.
Like I, I studied neuroscienceand behavior in in college and
yeah, there's definitely a linkthere and how your perception of
what you're experiencinginfluences how you actually
experience it.
I think a lot of that can applyto ultra running as well.
Um, but outside of that, justlike ultra trail, community is
(28:39):
truly when humanity is at itsgreatest, in my opinion, like
the kindness of strangers andthe uplift that you experience
is you can't find that anywhereelse.
It's the greatest sport on earth, right yes, Super cool.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Do you think maybe you'd ever jump into a soap
ultra race?
Is that anything that everinterests you, or no?
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
maybe you'd ever jump into a Swim Ultra race.
Is that anything that everinterests you or no, you know,
maybe, like it's definitely notout of the question, but I don't
know.
I think ultras are more fun.
All right If that's weird tosay Some people.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Listen.
I think it's a beautiful thingthat you can come in and just
pick, listen.
I love to smash myself as hardas I possibly can for like two
hours, tops Right, and then becompletely destroyed after.
But, like some folks like tosmash themselves for like 12 to
15 hours and that's okay.
You know we can have, butthat's the beauty of the sport
you can have both.
Is there any anything on theFKT scene that inspires you and
(29:35):
gets you interested?
Just cause.
I think there's some good stuffout there, right.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I mean definitely I wouldn't say I have one on my
mind right now, but yeah, thatwhole effort-based, like just
solo adventure, you against youand maybe pastimes, is really
intriguing for sure anddefinitely something I would
maybe pursue down the road.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Interesting.
I got to ask you the fuelingquestion just because it's such
a hot topic debate.
Now Everybody's talking aboutover 100 grams per hour, this,
that and the other, especiallybeing so new to the sport.
Oh no, you're shaking your head.
All right, I got to hear this.
We got a hot take.
Okay, can you tell me,especially being new to this,
relatively speaking, how haveyou been able to navigate it?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Well, actually I just started working over the past
few months with a dietician,kylie Van Horn.
If you know her, she just cameout with a book.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, I do know her.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, before that I was definitely figuring it out
on my own and it is definitely alearning curve.
Did not get it right for manyyears.
Yeah, I think I was eatingmashed potatoes and pickles and
chips, which is all great, butif you're trying to train and
race at a higher octane effort,that can maybe lead to issues.
(30:56):
For some people maybe itdoesn't, but yeah, I feel like
I've.
I've only recently started tofigure figure out my, my feeling
a little bit more Like Irealized I'm a super salty
sweater.
I've been severely undersalting during races, so that's
been cool to figure out.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Did you get a sweat test done for that?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I did yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
I just had a buddy go down to scratch Labs the other
day and go get his done and he'slike you got to go, you got to
go do it.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, fine.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
It's cool to see.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
It does seem cool.
Yeah, I don't know it'sdifferent.
I think it's like.
I just love that the sport hasprogressed so much that we're
doing lact Like here we arethat's interesting.
What do you?
How do you feel then?
Are you more of like a liquidcalorie person during a long
race?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Excuse me, so I've been using like a mix of liquid
gels and then waffles.
So I think having just a littlebit of something solid to sit
in my stomach helps me.
But I definitely have not beendoing.
A hundred grams of carb plus anhour.
I think that is a veryindividual number and maybe for
(32:04):
like a grown male that's easier.
But I've been sitting rightaround like 60, 70 grams carb
per hour and I think that's mysweet spot.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
That's awesome.
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting to see likehow it's kind of like taking the
sport by storm and like I justlike you said, it's not not a
one size fits all thing, likeeverybody's so different and you
got to figure out what kind oflike taking the sport by storm
and like I just like you said,it's not not a one size fits all
thing Like everybody's sodifferent and you got to figure
out what kind of like works foryou.
Um, all right, so I'd love tohave an ultra runner on Cause,
like now I can ask you like veryultra, like center questions
that I don't ask sub ultrapeople.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Let's talk music Like ?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
do you listen to like music on these extremely long
efforts that you do?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
music on these extremely long efforts that you
do.
So I will um, like in races ortraining.
I will sometimes use music in,like maybe the last half or the
last third of a race, kind of asa pick me up, but usually will
not start with music or listento it before then.
I don't.
At black Canyon I don't think Ilistened.
I did not listen to music theentire time.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Really, wow, that's impressive.
I feel I did not listen tomusic the entire time.
Really, that's impressive.
I feel like I have to have likepumping the tunes, like just to
like get me going.
What's like, what's a pump upsong for you?
Like, what are you?
What are you listening to?
Like what gets you.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Okay, I have one song that I tell everyone.
It's my hype up song Stacy'smom.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh my gosh, really one.
It's my hype up song.
Stacy's mom.
Oh my gosh, really, how old areyou?
I'm 23.
23.
Oh, my.
God that song was popular, Likewhen I was in school.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I'm ancient, so you can't.
You can't be sad when youlisten to Stacy's mom.
Like you can't have the ultrasads.
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Okay, that's a good one.
Stacy's mom, yeah, all right,I'm gonna try that on the start
line one day, or on a, on a,maybe at the end of a race.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
that sounds funny yeah, it's cool all right.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Do you get nervous on start lines?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
um, yeah, I I do and like I don't know.
I think anyone who says theydon't is lying maybe.
But you know, like after thegun goes off, like you're,
you're starting, you're goingthat kind of goes away.
So it's more so theanticipation and the excitement,
I think, and just like, yeah,you're about to go run a really
(34:10):
long, far distance and you'regoing to be out there pretty
much all day, so that's likewrapping your head around that
is a little scary.
But um, yeah, you just have towelcome the fear and do it
anyway.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I like that.
Are you?
Are you a very strategic racer?
Are you like cause?
You see a lot of these zeroslike jump off the gun and
they're running a five minutemile, and like a 60 K race or a
hundred K race.
Is it like for you, or you,Mark, let's wait and like real
people in, like what's, what'syour strategy usually on these
races?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I think it depends on the race and, like what I know
my strengths and weaknesses are.
Like there's definitely somestrategy that goes into it, but
at the end of the day, runningis play and I'm going to race
because it's fun.
Um, so yeah, I don't, I don'tknow, i't know, I it depends.
(35:00):
I think that that's my question.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, what did you do at black canyon?
Did you like?
Just did you like, becausethat's such a fast race yeah
it's like if you don't putyourself in the race then,
things can unravel quickly, oryou could find yourself, you
know, kind of back there likewhat'd you do?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
yeah, I think that race was interesting because I
uh, it was my fifth time racing,fourth time racing it and I
knew there was going to be somewomen that just sprinted out hot
like were rabbits from the gun,and I knew I did not want to
stick with them, um, but Idefinitely did not want to lose
(35:37):
contact with the front pack,because I think there's a trend
more and more where, like, ifyou're, if you lose contact, um,
you're not going to be able toever catch back up, like the.
The game is changing, so tospeak.
So, yeah, not so much hangingback, but not killing myself
either.
It's a fine line.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Are you during these efforts?
Are you especially cause it'sso long?
Are you watching heart rate?
Are you going off of perceivedexertion Like, what are you
doing on there?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Perceived exertion for sure, yeah, just own effort.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Do you, when you work with your, with your coach, are
you guys training off ofperceived exertion versus heart
rate?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, I mean, I wear a heart rate monitor and he'll
look at those numbers, but Idon't worry about them.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
okay, okay see, like I'm a psycho.
I always like, I'm like verymuch like, okay, am I.
Zone two, am I at threshold?
Zone three, like where?
Because like, at least for likesub ultra, I feel like I don't
know.
I've applied a lot of differentlike nordic skiing methods,
like some of like the heart ratethings that they do.
Yeah, I feel like some of thatstuff works.
I don't know how what much itworks for like really really
(36:41):
long distances, because like yougotta kind of run zone two,
zone three and like, yeah, trynot to destroy yourself, whereas
you know it's like a tricky.
I don't know it's a trickything, super cool.
Yeah, I don't know what wouldyou?
What's your plan for going intolike western states?
Is that going to be more like,okay, this is my time I think I
can run to dusty corners.
(37:03):
This is my time I think I canrun to roby, like all these
different like spots on thecourse.
Is it going to be moresegmented?
Is that how you break it up?
I guess?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
yeah, and I I think western is an interesting one
because there's so much data outthere about splits and
timetables and stuff and andlike there are kind of times you
have to hit if you want to evenbe within striking distance of
the top 10.
Um, so like I'll have those inthe back of my mind but I'm not
going to let it absolutelydictate how my race goes, If
(37:33):
that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It does, it does, yeah.
And I also feel like it's oneof those things like you just
can't go in.
Like I feel like if you're somarried to times yeah, if you're
you know if it's a hot year orthis, that and the other like I
feel like it's almost becauseit's such a long race, such a
hard race.
There's so many mind games youcan play with yourself.
Yeah, that I don't know.
You just have to like beat offthose mental demons.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
You know like, oh man yeah, and it's so long Anything
can happen.
Like, preparation doesn'tnecessarily guarantee you
anything.
Um, yeah, yeah, but that's kindof the fun part.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Are you starting to think about, like, who's going
to pace you, who's going to comeout and crew, like are you
going to have family out to kindof like spectate, like what's,
what's that going to be like?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
I actually already have my pacers locked in Nice.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Nice, nice.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Are you going to have any of the trail team folks out
there, because it's like weekafter Broken Arrow, so they'll
probably all be out to hang out.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, we'll see.
We'll see who's able to make it, but Andy is definitely going
to be there.
He's also going to be doingmedia for ATRA, so that'll be
cool to have him out on course.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Very cool, all right.
Well, we're at about 40 minutesso I'm gonna wind this one down
now.
Shea aquilano, I want to saythank you so much for coming on
the podcast.
This is a great conversation.
Um, this is going to drop.
Next week.
We're going to be doing like awhole week of the trail team
where we're going to likerelease everybody's uh, you know
, kind of introducing everybody,so it'd be super fun.
Yeah, I definitely want to keepin touch.
I can't wait to have you onafter western states or before
then.
I can't wait to chat aboutthese races, these long things,
(39:01):
but I don't know how you do itwell, thank you, james.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, a great conversation yeah, super fun.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Thanks, I appreciate it yep, all right what'd you
guys think?
oh man, what a fun episode.
Like I said, I can't wait tohave back on um, just a super,
super incredible athlete andjust an inspiring human.
So, guys, also one cool thingshe recently just launched a
podcast or a shoe review sitethat you guys can find on
(39:31):
Instagram as well as YouTube.
I believe it's called Shay'sShoe Review with Carly so Carly
as well by women for women,which is pretty sweet.
So it's a women's shoe review.
I'm really stoked on this,especially because there's a lot
of dude shoe reviews out therefor dude shoes and no one's
(39:51):
talking about women's shoes, andthis is just such a space
that's needed.
So super excited to see Shayand Carly taking charge with
this one.
I'm sure it'll be extremelysuccessful.
So you can find that, like Isaid, on YouTube, at Shay's Shoe
Review with Carly, anddefinitely give them a follow
and subscribe, give them fivestars and, yeah, give them some
love, guys, before you get going.
(40:13):
Also, if you're on Instagram,hop on Instagram and give Shay a
follow.
You can find her at Shay,underscore AQ.
That's just Shay S-H-E-Aunderscore AQ.
Like I said, send her a DM, sendher some words of encouragement
, congratulate her on herdominant performance and wish
her the best of luck as she getsready for Western states and
worlds.
It's going to be quite thedouble.
Guys, if you enjoyed thisepisode, please give us a
(40:34):
five-star rating and review onApple, spotify, youtube or
wherever you consume yourpodcasts.
That would mean the world to us.
And yeah, have a great rest ofyour week.
I got more coming down thepipeline.
It's a busy week, thank you.
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, James Lauriello,and today I'm so excited to
welcome Ms Shay Aquilano to thepodcast.
I'm really excited to finallyhave a conversation with Shay.
You guys might know that namebecause she just became the
champion about a week and a halfago, of the Gorge Waterfalls
100K race in Cascade Locks,Oregon, and punched her ticket
(00:21):
back to the World MountainRunning Championship for the
long trail.
Aside from that, Shea wasactually a selection for the
2025 trail team elite team.
One of two athletes selected inthe ultra capacity, which is
cool.
So now we kind of got thedivision between sub ultra and
ultra on the trail team, whichis pretty neat.
Yeah, Shea is an absolute worldbeater.
(00:43):
She's going to be going toWestern States this year.
Got in on a lottery spot uh,might actually be.
I mean, she's my pick to be thefirst women to win the race
since Kat Bradley.
Um, off of a lottery spot,which would be pretty cool.
Um, she also had a great finishas black at black cannon as
well.
Talk about all of these thingsin the episode.
It's a great one.
Um, I can't wait to actuallyhave Shay back on.
This was kind of a briefepisode, so I'm excited to have
(01:05):
her on in the long form andreview in the coming months,
especially for her WesternStates build.
So congrats to her, Reallyexcited to see her going back to
Worlds.
And yeah, guys, have a greatone.
Hope you enjoy this one.
It's time.
(01:31):
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen.
(02:17):
We are live.
Listen up, guys.
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let me know what you guys think.
Shay Aquilano, welcome to theSteep Stuff Podcast.
(03:26):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'm good Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
How's your day going?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
No, I'm going pretty well.
Nothing too crazy happening.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Nice, nice.
I know it's crazy, you're inBoulder, right.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I am yeah, yeah, front range.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I'm down in Colorado Springs and the weather was so
nice last week and now it'sstarting to turn again.
It's like no spring is so likekind of hit and miss here.
Sometimes it's good, sometimesit's not so good.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, this is actually, yeah, my first winter
and spring living in Boulder,because I moved here end of July
last year.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Where'd you move from ?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Indiana.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Oh my gosh Flatland.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, very different?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Are you originally from Indiana?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, yeah, I grew up there, went to school at Notre
Dame.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So born and raised, Wow, oh my gosh, notre Dame.
So I can't make any Michiganjokes then, because I'm a
Michigan fan.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh no, can't hate on Notre Dame, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now, notre Dame is a cool school, though.
What was it like going there?
Tell me about that experience.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, I mean I had a great time I studied
neuroscience and behavior, butthat area it's kind of just like
Notre Dame it's in its ownlittle bubble in South Bend,
indiana, and there's not a wholelot outside of that, so to
speak.
Definitely not a lot of trails,a lot of flat road.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Did you run for them specifically?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
No, I didn't no Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I couldn't find it.
I did a little bit of researchfor this one.
I just wanted to make sure Ididn't.
So what was that like then?
How did you get into therunning scene then?
How did that come about for you?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah Well, I actually didn't start running until
after my last soccer season inhigh school and then kind of
just picked it up for fun.
That was right around whenCOVID hit.
So we were sent home myfreshman year of school and,
yeah, I was just at home tryingto find stuff to do and was
running more to stay sane insane.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Fair enough, fair enough, uh, so you just started
running.
All right, let's backtrack thisa little bit, because this is
such an interesting thing for me, because I I meet a lot of
people that, like most of thepeople in our sport like come
from like a track and fieldbackground, but I'd say, like
soccer might be like the secondlike that's where that's the
world I come from is like thesoccer, kind of the soccer realm
.
Where did like trails come from?
Like how did?
Is this some interest?
Or like, where did like kind ofyou saw some like, did you find
(05:48):
it on youtube, instagram, like,like, because you've kind of
like evolved into this likereally well-known trail runner
now and it's like become likekind of a pseudo career.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So like, tell me about that um, so yeah, I'm not
really not entirely sure if itwas any one thing that brought
me to trails.
I know I started running alittle bit with my parents after
soccer ended, just for fun, andwe would go to a local park and
do some trail running there.
And yeah, there's justsomething different about the
(06:20):
trails compared to road and likeit brings a different energy,
and the people who do itapproach it in a slightly
different way, and I thinkthat's what kind of got me
intrigued in the first placenice.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
What was the first race that you did?
You signed up for it, that youlike hopped into.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You're like I'm hooked yeah, well, the first one
I did was actually a virtual50k um, because it was during
covid um, I don't even thinklike that kind of thing is on
ultra sign up.
But if I were to go back tolike my first official ultra, it
would be the eight hour dreamendurance race in indianapolis
(06:57):
nice and just like you gothooked from it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Or like what you was like immediately I gotta go do
more of these.
Or like what was the takeawayfrom it?
Like tell me about thatexperience.
Like you just like picked arandom place to go run a 50k or
I what you was like immediatelyI gotta go do more of these.
Or like what was the takeawayfrom it?
Like, tell me about thatexperience.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Like you just like picked a random place to go run
a 50k or I mean, it was likelocal, it was easy to access,
like it was something I'd heardabout happening in past years.
So I'm like, yeah, like I'll,I'll try it um, but like why
ultras um, is that kind of thequestion?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
which is why, like, I guess, like just getting like
what about it was inspiring andlike got you hooked, like more
or less yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, I'd say it's one of those things that's hard
to describe unless, like, theperson themselves has also
experienced it, because it'smore than just about covering
the distance.
It truly feels like it's likelife distilled, and that was
really intriguing to me.
Like you get to experiencethese highs, these lows, doubt,
(07:52):
joy, um, just like played outover miles and miles and yeah,
so like it's hard to explain toanyone why you would willingly
want to do those things and likepush yourself to the edge and
like go further.
But, um, yeah, for people thathave done it like, the answer is
is simple like it's, it's real,um, it's the closest thing to,
(08:14):
like the purest and rawest formof life and humanity you can get
to, and I think that's prettycool.
Like betrayal community iswhere it's at all.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right, that was a good answer.
I got it out of you.
All right, I like it, I like it.
So you just relocated toBoulder, more or less like how,
how has that transition been foryou?
Like moving from Indiana to try, and you know, boulder's a
really interesting place.
There's a lot of professionalathletes.
It can be overwhelming at timesfor people.
I feel like like what, whatdoes that like for you?
It?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
can be overwhelming at times for people.
I feel like like what, whatdoes that like for you?
Um, so yeah, it was actuallyprobably my best decision of
2024.
Um, I moved here kind ofwithout a plan, without a job,
um, just kind of see where itwould go.
I did have connections with thetrail team here in Boulder, so
I think in that regard it was aneasy transition, so to speak.
(09:05):
I mean, definitely verydifferent than Indiana and many
different ways.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's beengreat.
I've learned a lot and, yeah,really found my footing here.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Is it like easy to find, like, do you train with a
group of people or are you moreof like a solo trainer?
Like how does that work for you?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Um, definitely a mix.
I do enjoy running alone, but Ialso like mixing it up with
running with people and I think,like I do run with the trail
team here in Boulder, there's abig group of athletes around my
age, but also part of thegreater community as well.
That just everyone is so niceand, yeah, so friendly, so it's
(09:47):
been great yeah, no, it's supercool.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It's just like a um, I don't know, just like the
community I feel like just is soinspiring and just gets you.
Gets you out the door, even ifyou don't want to get out the
door.
It's like a there's alwayssomething to do, always people
to hang with.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It's it's a fun place yeah, there was always
something going on or someone torun with.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Do you find and I asked this to everybody that's
from Boulder, I literally justasked Bailey Kowalski this other
day Do you find it any pressureto have to?
The reason I ask this isbecause Boulder is such a
pressure cooker of it.
There's athletes everywhere.
So do you find pressure to haveto go be doing stuff, like even
if maybe you're injured or ifyou're having downtime in your
block, like, or do you, are youable to just turn that off and
(10:31):
just kind of just do your thing?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Um, I w I don't really feel the pressure.
Um, I know there's a lot oflike people doing crazy things,
but at some point you just haveto stay in your own lane and
like run true to you and so like, for me, maybe that's I'm not
playing it cool all the time,being a little chaotic, but yeah
, just doing things how I'mdoing them and yeah, it's fun.
(10:57):
It's running is fun, so itshouldn't be anything more than
that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh, it's a beautiful approach.
I I, yeah, I always ask becauseit's just interesting to hear
how people think about it, justbecause, like I don't know, like
I'm not a big Strava person,just because I always feel like
there's you know, sometimes youget FOMO, it's like, oh my gosh,
I should be doing this and it'slike you know.
Meanwhile you just have to stayfocused on what you're doing.
Um so for you, you're aninteresting like selection.
Like you, you got.
(11:20):
You made it on the trail teamelite this year, which was
amazing.
But like usually, trail team isa little more sub ultra focus.
You're more of a little bit ofan ultra focus.
So I like that.
I like that Andy's expandingthe team Congratulations, Thank
you.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, what's that?
What does that mean to you,like?
How exciting is this of anopportunity for you?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I mean it's.
It's amazing.
Yeah, coming from and growingup in Indiana, there's very few
trails.
I mean there is a small trailcommunity there, but growing up
there I always felt a little bitdisconnected from the greater
trail community, especially witha lot of it centered more on
stuff happening out West and soI don't know.
(12:02):
I feel like I ran into a lot ofthe same obstacles that maybe
people around my age coming fromtrack and cross country did,
like right now there's not a lotof infrastructure to help
support younger athletes tryingto make it in the sport and like
even especially for me, like Ihad no running background
whatsoever, um coming intocollege.
(12:22):
So I think that just emphasizedthe need for support and how to
navigate the sponsorship worldwho to know who to talk to and
what working in the industrycould potentially look like and
how to just navigate all of that.
So, yeah, it's been super cool.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's amazing.
I think it's a great answer too.
One of the things for me, Idon't know, I just feel like
that stuck out.
Probably I'd say maybe you andHawk, I think, are the two like
selections for the team that,like I, like I knew names of
already, like from theselections, like you're already,
I would say, like very advancedand like very just, like you
have a lot of experience in thetrail space, let's put it that
(13:02):
way.
So, like what is?
So I guess you could tell melike what does that look like
for you?
Are you more so now trying tobridge that gap of looking for
sponsors, um, over the next like12 months and stuff like that?
Like cause you've had quite afew, you know fantastic finishes
and I feel like you're, you'rekind of like in that space now.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So I mean.
I mean, yes, it woulddefinitely be great to have um
extra support.
It would definitely make mylife, like financially easier
and ability to travel and get tothe races I want to race, um.
So in that regard, yes, butalso I feel like I'm a very
values driven runner.
So like, first and foremost, Ineed to keep my why behind, why
(13:42):
I run.
So like when I first started, Ithe feeling that I wanted to
raise was keeping the magic, theawe, the joy and the wonder at
the forefront, and I just wantto maintain that.
So, yeah, it would be a veryintentional partnership if I
ever were to find one, but rightnow it's being sponsored.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I like that.
Which shoes do you like to runin?
What's your jam right now?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right now I've been running in the North Face and
then also recently the prodigiopro.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, so I'm glad I feel like that's the the shoe
everybody's picking now thesedays, I like yeah, heck yeah
yeah, well, sportiva is rightdown the street from you, so it
is a little segue.
We need more ultra ladies onthe team.
That'd be awesome.
Um, yeah, so what's?
What's the 2025 schedulelooking like?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, so actually coming up April 12th I'll be
running Gorge Waterfalls 100K,so pretty excited about that.
And then come June, westernStates 100 miler Wait, did you?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
draw.
You drew in the lottery, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I forgot all about that.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
We'll talk about that , we'll get to that, because I
just think that's.
That's a fun conversation.
Let's talk Gorge first.
I do want to get into that,like obviously that's a
selection race, um, really stout, going to be a lot of strong
ladies there.
I think it's like an amazingopportunity for someone like you
um, you know to really catapultyourself in the sport.
Like is the goal to try and geton the long trail team get
(15:17):
yourself spot.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You know, I would definitely accept a spot if I
were offered one or I got toptwo, but I think, um, mostly
it'll be just getting morepractice at racing when the
depth is deep.
So putting myself in the fightand just seeing what happens,
and, yeah, I'm really, reallyexcited about it.
I haven't ever been to Oregon,so this will be good.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh, you're in for a treat.
That course is beautiful.
Like I, my wife ran the 50K afew years ago and we went out
there for it was like the firstyear I think Dylan took over the
race and like that course is sonice, it's like sneaky
technical, it's like rainy andjust like dreary, it's typical
pacific northwest and just likeI don't know.
I find that stuff would be likeutterly beautiful and it's like
(15:56):
got just enough climbing andbut it's all runnable.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, it's good stuff I'm glad to hear that sounds
great.
You're gonna like it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
The 100k is a long.
Obviously it's a long way, notfor someone like you who runs
these long distances, but Idon't know, to me it's a long
course.
Yeah, you're in for a serioustreat and it like ends like near
an ice cream stand, which iskind of dope, like in cascade
locks.
Yeah, it's pretty dope.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Right on yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's a cool race.
All right, let's.
Let's pivot to Western States alittle bit Cause.
So you drew in the lottery,like how many years had you been
putting your name in the hat totry and get in?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
How did that work?
I had eight tickets, so I guessthree, four years, four years.
It was my fourth year, yeah,and I got it.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
That's not too bad.
That's pretty solid.
Wow, all right.
So what are you looking for themost about Western States?
Because that's a big danceright there.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Oh man, I haven't even like I've thought about it,
but I got to get through Gorgefirst.
Um, yeah, I'm just super soakedon it because that's definitely
been a dream bucket list racefor me, so just excited to be
able to take part in it, forsure.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
What is uh training been like for you so far?
Just getting ready for Gorgeand as well as, I guess, like
Western States on the back endof that.
Just what eight weeks later?
Or something like that.
Like what, um, yeah, what iswhat?
Has the blocks been lookinglike a lot of speed?
Like what have you been workingon?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so I mean heading into um, black Canyon
and then also earlier in thisblock was doing some VO2 work
and tempo work, um, and thentransitioned into more like
endurance, effort, length ofstuff, um, and also, yeah, since
Western is my eight race, justplaying around with some things
(17:37):
that I think could work in thetraining block leading up to
Western States, like my coachand I have been implementing a
heat training block leading upto gorge, while gorge
necessarily not necessarily willbe warm, but Western will so.
Like just seeing how my bodyresponds to that super cool.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Who do you work with as a coach?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
uh ryan anderson okay , very cool.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
What is um?
Do you think boulders?
I mean, I just feel likeboulders so conducive for
getting ready for like a racefor western states, like just
endless amounts of like dirtroads and yes technique like
some, some techie descends somegood things in there.
Um yeah, what do you been,what's your been your go-to?
Like you hit gold hill, likeeverybody else, like what's
what's the deal there?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
gold hills road.
Basically yeah, um no, I meanhonestly like I've been doing
stuff all over right now likemostly the lower trails are
what's clear and dry right now.
So I've been doing a lot ofthat stuff.
But honestly, like just happyto be able to run on trails
(18:44):
Indiana not a lot of trails, sojust yeah, it's been game
changing to transition most ofmy runs to get on trails this
year.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You got lucky.
Your first winter here waspretty warm.
I'm not going to lie on thefront range.
It gets way worse.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's what people were telling me.
I'm like this isn't bad.
Indiana winters are so muchworse.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
I spent a summer in Michigan and like oh my God, I
didn't see the sun for likeeight weeks.
It was terrible yeah, Michiganand like, oh my God, like I
didn't see the sun for likeeight weeks.
It was terrible.
Yeah, I don't know how peopledeal with that.
It's absolutely brutal.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You get used to it, I guess yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
A lot of vitamin D got to continue.
Just take a lot of vitamin D,yeah, so I don't know.
I feel like Boulder is such agood place for you like to train
and get ready for a race likethat.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Are you?
Have you linked up with anyoneelse that's in western states,
that's in the boulder area,that's getting ready as well, or
no?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
um, so I've done a couple runs with riley so far,
but yes, that's an amazingperson to run with oh my god.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, need to reach out to other people to get more
training partners super cool,super cool.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
So what, uh, what would be?
Obviously I feel like yourfront end of your uh, I guess
like racing calendar is prettystacked, but like what would be?
Obviously I feel like yourfront end of your uh, I guess
like racing calendar is prettystacked, but like what would be
the plans for summer, justenjoying the summer, or after
western states, because that'spretty brutal so I mean after
western tbd, right now I'msigned up for ccc.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
um, unless worlds would, potentially, then I would
do that instead.
Okay, and then after that,thinking about JFK, 50 mile, but
still haven't committed toanything yet.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, that's so far out.
Oh my God, yeah, ccc would becool.
Have you ever ventured out toChamonix or like that area?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Never, so this would that would be a really cool
experience.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, I feel like every person that I know that
has gone out there for either tolike race out there or just
spend time, it completelychanges the way they view the
sport.
Like it's like soprofessionalized being out there
and then they come back toAmerica where it's like still
kind of like there's still agrassroots vibe here, so like
everybody comes back with likekind of a different view on the
sport, which is so I'm curiousto see how you grow and how that
(20:52):
works for you.
It's pretty cool thank you yeah, yeah.
So ccc, what do you think aboutthat course?
Like what's inspiring, like whywould you choose that over?
Like utmb is just the way thatlike fits in your schedule, or
like uh, stones that you had, orit was just the one I could get
into.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
okay, based on my utMB index score, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Super cool.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Simple answer.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, no easy enough.
All right, so we can pivot backto the trail team.
I'm just excited for you tohear, like has Andy talked to
you guys about, like, who thementors are going to be for this
year?
Like, how does that work?
Are you excited for any of thecamps that you guys do?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Like, what's the what's the schedule for you guys
?
You guys, yeah, well, the campschedule is is pretty cool.
Um, let's see, I don't have itpulled up, but we're there's a
grand lake camp in june, whichwould be great.
Um, definitely, I think there'sone in whistler, british
columbia.
Um, and then potentially one ingermany leading up to UTMB
between worlds and UTMB.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Very cool, All right, so that's good stuff.
Has he?
Has he said anything about whothe um, like the?
I guess he has picks likementors every year for like
people to mentor you guys?
Do you guys know who he's goingto be for this year?
Yet Not yet.
Not yet, so still surprised.
Did you get a chance to lastyear?
I think it was at the GrandLake one.
Did you link up with them andgo to the one at the Grand Lake?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I know there was a bunch of folks moved to Colorado
.
So I think I kind of kind ofknew that that like, yeah, I was
(22:36):
going to move and Andy andCarly were really helpful in
getting me out here.
So transition.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, no, super cool.
What was the um?
Talk to me about the experience, or just getting to hang with
everybody and like doing like atraditional camp and like
hanging with the team, like whatwas?
What was that experience likefor you?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
right out of college, maybe still in college and all
kind of at a similar point intheir life where they're trying
to transition and get into trailrunning and like figure out
what to do.
And yeah, like the saying goes,a rising tide lifts all boats.
And that's pretty much what thewhole week in Grand Lake felt
like, like we were all sleepingtogether in, like Giant.
And felt like like we were allsleeping together and like giant
and like an Airbnb um, packedin, it was great, eating
(23:37):
together, just like hanging out.
Yeah, nothing but good things.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
That's awesome.
Now it seemed like a like justan awesome experience and like I
don't know they had.
You know, there's just so manythings that I think you can like
learn from others and like howthey can all help you apply
different things.
For you know, there's just somany things that I think you can
like learn from others and likehow they can all help you apply
different things.
For you know, goal selectionand just all these different
things.
Now, as you've kind of evolvedand grown in the sport in the
last few years, like you're,like you've had a lot of success
, like obviously now withWestern States and a couple you
(24:04):
know some big races this year,like what I'm just curious, like
, how do you set your goals?
Like, is it more performancebased for you?
Is it just like finishing CauseI know these, these races are
tough and they're really long?
Like, how do you like set yourgoals accordingly for yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Um, when I'm planning out my year, it's kind of just
about what excites me the mostand then, leaning into that,
that's pretty much where I yeah,I get a lot of my race
inspiration or like what I wantmy goals to be.
And you know, like I've gotreally I've got.
I've got big dreams and size ofthe goals can't be rushed, Um,
(24:41):
but then again I'm really luckyto have big dreams at all that
fill me up.
And when things don't work out,you know I'm like, yeah, I'm
not there yet, but I want to be.
Things don't work out, you knowI'm like, yeah, I'm not there
yet, but I want to be, and sothat that just like drives my
training and, um, how I approachracing.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What are, what are your big dreams?
I'm curious.
I got to hear tell me.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Oh no, um, I mean, western States for a long time
has been one of my big dreams,and then I just want to be in
this sport for a while, like Iwant to be a long-term athlete
and a sustainable runner.
So I want to be able to stillbe doing this when I'm I don't
know, 80 years old.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
No, it's such a smart approach to it.
You see, a lot of folks come inthe sport.
You know a lot of people,especially in the longer stuff,
you know, overdo it.
Some people over train injuriespop up.
I feel like if you approach itfrom such a smart way, like it
sounds like you'll have so muchlongevity Plus the way feeling
is going now and the wayeverything's going, I just feel
(25:46):
like it sets runners up for morejust longevity in the sport,
which is awesome.
I'm so curious to likepiggyback off that question that
I just asked you is like whoinspires you then?
Like who who really inspiresyou in the sport to to chase
those goals and chase yourdreams?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I think there's a lot of people Um, I think one of
them is, or one of them, cominginto the sport was Courtney
DeWalter, because she doesthings her own way and it's
awe-inspiring.
Like this sport is absurd, it'shumbling, but Courtney is a
reminder that you can like racetrue to you and like.
(26:20):
That's kind of what the essenceof ultra running is about.
Um, it's not about like resultsor time or anything like that.
Um, it's more about yourexperience and what you make of
it, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Courtney's a good person to.
Yeah, courtney's the best.
Have you met her yet?
Yeah, I have not.
Oh my god, she's the like youwould never know.
Like I met her after she won,like dominated everybody at hard
rock, like happened to bewalking down the street in
Silverton.
I was like hey go, she's likeshe'll talk to you for like five
minutes.
She's the nicest person ever.
Um, yeah, that's a good personto to admire in the sport.
Um, all right, so kind of gotthrough the schedule.
(26:59):
What's like I'm so curious withyou because especially, like
you said, western states is soimportant to you.
Like what is the bucket listrace for you?
What's something you haven'tdone yet that just like is so
exciting?
Is there an fkt, like a longtrail fkt or something like that
that's on your mind, or a racelike what's something you
haven't done yet?
It's gotta be besides westernstates besides western states I
can't.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Western states, um, I don't know, maybe just like
utmb, like I'd love to seechamonix and get to race
internationally again, like thatwould be super cool.
Um, but outside of that, yeah,my interests are like evolving
and growing, so could changetomorrow.
I don't know super cool.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I'm so curious to get in your head about like long,
like ultra, just because, likeso many folks that are younger
in the sport come in and likethey're very focused on the 10K
or the mountain classic or theVK, like a lot of sub ultra
emphasis in younger, thesewhippersnappers these days,
these young people which I love,sub ultra, that's all I raise.
But it's so curious becausesome people you meet it's just
(28:04):
like how hard can I push myselffor a really long period of time
?
Is that more your take on it?
Or what drives you toward thatexploration?
Is it more so just build outthe pain cave?
What is it?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I think there's a really interesting connection
between mind and body.
Like I, I studied neuroscienceand behavior in in college and
yeah, there's definitely a linkthere and how your perception of
what you're experiencinginfluences how you actually
experience it.
I think a lot of that can applyto ultra running as well.
Um, but outside of that, justlike ultra trail, community is
(28:39):
truly when humanity is at itsgreatest, in my opinion, like
the kindness of strangers andthe uplift that you experience
is you can't find that anywhereelse.
It's the greatest sport on earth, right yes, Super cool.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Do you think maybe you'd ever jump into a soap
ultra race?
Is that anything that everinterests you, or no?
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
maybe you'd ever jump into a Swim Ultra race.
Is that anything that everinterests you or no, you know,
maybe, like it's definitely notout of the question, but I don't
know.
I think ultras are more fun.
All right If that's weird tosay Some people.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Listen.
I think it's a beautiful thingthat you can come in and just
pick, listen.
I love to smash myself as hardas I possibly can for like two
hours, tops Right, and then becompletely destroyed after.
But, like some folks like tosmash themselves for like 12 to
15 hours and that's okay.
You know we can have, butthat's the beauty of the sport
you can have both.
Is there any anything on theFKT scene that inspires you and
(29:35):
gets you interested?
Just cause.
I think there's some good stuffout there, right.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I mean definitely I wouldn't say I have one on my
mind right now, but yeah, thatwhole effort-based, like just
solo adventure, you against youand maybe pastimes, is really
intriguing for sure anddefinitely something I would
maybe pursue down the road.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Interesting.
I got to ask you the fuelingquestion just because it's such
a hot topic debate.
Now Everybody's talking aboutover 100 grams per hour, this,
that and the other, especiallybeing so new to the sport.
Oh no, you're shaking your head.
All right, I got to hear this.
We got a hot take.
Okay, can you tell me,especially being new to this,
relatively speaking, how haveyou been able to navigate it?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Well, actually I just started working over the past
few months with a dietician,kylie Van Horn.
If you know her, she just cameout with a book.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, I do know her.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, before that I was definitely figuring it out
on my own and it is definitely alearning curve.
Did not get it right for manyyears.
Yeah, I think I was eatingmashed potatoes and pickles and
chips, which is all great, butif you're trying to train and
race at a higher octane effort,that can maybe lead to issues.
(30:56):
For some people maybe itdoesn't, but yeah, I feel like
I've.
I've only recently started tofigure figure out my, my feeling
a little bit more Like Irealized I'm a super salty
sweater.
I've been severely undersalting during races, so that's
been cool to figure out.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Did you get a sweat test done for that?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
I did yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
I just had a buddy go down to scratch Labs the other
day and go get his done and he'slike you got to go, you got to
go do it.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, fine.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
It's cool to see.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
It does seem cool.
Yeah, I don't know it'sdifferent.
I think it's like.
I just love that the sport hasprogressed so much that we're
doing lact Like here we arethat's interesting.
What do you?
How do you feel then?
Are you more of like a liquidcalorie person during a long
race?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Excuse me, so I've been using like a mix of liquid
gels and then waffles.
So I think having just a littlebit of something solid to sit
in my stomach helps me.
But I definitely have not beendoing.
A hundred grams of carb plus anhour.
I think that is a veryindividual number and maybe for
(32:04):
like a grown male that's easier.
But I've been sitting rightaround like 60, 70 grams carb
per hour and I think that's mysweet spot.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
That's awesome.
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting to see likehow it's kind of like taking the
sport by storm and like I justlike you said, it's not not a
one size fits all thing, likeeverybody's so different and you
got to figure out what kind oflike taking the sport by storm
and like I just like you said,it's not not a one size fits all
thing Like everybody's sodifferent and you got to figure
out what kind of like works foryou.
Um, all right, so I'd love tohave an ultra runner on Cause,
like now I can ask you like veryultra, like center questions
that I don't ask sub ultrapeople.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Let's talk music Like ?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
do you listen to like music on these extremely long
efforts that you do?
Speaker 2 (32:41):
music on these extremely long efforts that you
do.
So I will um, like in races ortraining.
I will sometimes use music in,like maybe the last half or the
last third of a race, kind of asa pick me up, but usually will
not start with music or listento it before then.
I don't.
At black Canyon I don't think Ilistened.
I did not listen to music theentire time.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Really, wow, that's impressive.
I feel I did not listen tomusic the entire time.
Really, that's impressive.
I feel like I have to have likepumping the tunes, like just to
like get me going.
What's like, what's a pump upsong for you?
Like, what are you?
What are you listening to?
Like what gets you.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Okay, I have one song that I tell everyone.
It's my hype up song Stacy'smom.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Oh my gosh, really one.
It's my hype up song.
Stacy's mom.
Oh my gosh, really, how old areyou?
I'm 23.
23.
Oh, my.
God that song was popular, Likewhen I was in school.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I'm ancient, so you can't.
You can't be sad when youlisten to Stacy's mom.
Like you can't have the ultrasads.
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Okay, that's a good one.
Stacy's mom, yeah, all right,I'm gonna try that on the start
line one day, or on a, on a,maybe at the end of a race.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
that sounds funny yeah, it's cool all right.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Do you get nervous on start lines?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
um, yeah, I I do and like I don't know.
I think anyone who says theydon't is lying maybe.
But you know, like after thegun goes off, like you're,
you're starting, you're goingthat kind of goes away.
So it's more so theanticipation and the excitement,
I think, and just like, yeah,you're about to go run a really
(34:10):
long, far distance and you'regoing to be out there pretty
much all day, so that's likewrapping your head around that
is a little scary.
But um, yeah, you just have towelcome the fear and do it
anyway.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
I like that.
Are you?
Are you a very strategic racer?
Are you like cause?
You see a lot of these zeroslike jump off the gun and
they're running a five minutemile, and like a 60 K race or a
hundred K race.
Is it like for you, or you,Mark, let's wait and like real
people in, like what's, what'syour strategy usually on these
races?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I think it depends on the race and, like what I know
my strengths and weaknesses are.
Like there's definitely somestrategy that goes into it, but
at the end of the day, runningis play and I'm going to race
because it's fun.
Um, so yeah, I don't, I don'tknow, i't know, I it depends.
(35:00):
I think that that's my question.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, what did you do at black canyon?
Did you like?
Just did you like, becausethat's such a fast race yeah
it's like if you don't putyourself in the race then,
things can unravel quickly, oryou could find yourself, you
know, kind of back there likewhat'd you do?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
yeah, I think that race was interesting because I
uh, it was my fifth time racing,fourth time racing it and I
knew there was going to be somewomen that just sprinted out hot
like were rabbits from the gun,and I knew I did not want to
stick with them, um, but Idefinitely did not want to lose
(35:37):
contact with the front pack,because I think there's a trend
more and more where, like, ifyou're, if you lose contact, um,
you're not going to be able toever catch back up, like the.
The game is changing, so tospeak.
So, yeah, not so much hangingback, but not killing myself
either.
It's a fine line.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Are you during these efforts?
Are you especially cause it'sso long?
Are you watching heart rate?
Are you going off of perceivedexertion Like, what are you
doing on there?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Perceived exertion for sure, yeah, just own effort.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Do you, when you work with your, with your coach, are
you guys training off ofperceived exertion versus heart
rate?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, I mean, I wear a heart rate monitor and he'll
look at those numbers, but Idon't worry about them.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
okay, okay see, like I'm a psycho.
I always like, I'm like verymuch like, okay, am I.
Zone two, am I at threshold?
Zone three, like where?
Because like, at least for likesub ultra, I feel like I don't
know.
I've applied a lot of differentlike nordic skiing methods,
like some of like the heart ratethings that they do.
Yeah, I feel like some of thatstuff works.
I don't know how what much itworks for like really really
(36:41):
long distances, because like yougotta kind of run zone two,
zone three and like, yeah, trynot to destroy yourself, whereas
you know it's like a tricky.
I don't know it's a trickything, super cool.
Yeah, I don't know what wouldyou?
What's your plan for going intolike western states?
Is that going to be more like,okay, this is my time I think I
can run to dusty corners.
(37:03):
This is my time I think I canrun to roby, like all these
different like spots on thecourse.
Is it going to be moresegmented?
Is that how you break it up?
I guess?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
yeah, and I I think western is an interesting one
because there's so much data outthere about splits and
timetables and stuff and andlike there are kind of times you
have to hit if you want to evenbe within striking distance of
the top 10.
Um, so like I'll have those inthe back of my mind but I'm not
going to let it absolutelydictate how my race goes, If
(37:33):
that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It does, it does, yeah.
And I also feel like it's oneof those things like you just
can't go in.
Like I feel like if you're somarried to times yeah, if you're
you know if it's a hot year orthis, that and the other like I
feel like it's almost becauseit's such a long race, such a
hard race.
There's so many mind games youcan play with yourself.
Yeah, that I don't know.
You just have to like beat offthose mental demons.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
You know like, oh man yeah, and it's so long Anything
can happen.
Like, preparation doesn'tnecessarily guarantee you
anything.
Um, yeah, yeah, but that's kindof the fun part.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Are you starting to think about, like, who's going
to pace you, who's going to comeout and crew, like are you
going to have family out to kindof like spectate, like what's,
what's that going to be like?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
I actually already have my pacers locked in Nice.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Nice, nice.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Are you going to have any of the trail team folks out
there, because it's like weekafter Broken Arrow, so they'll
probably all be out to hang out.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, we'll see.
We'll see who's able to make it, but Andy is definitely going
to be there.
He's also going to be doingmedia for ATRA, so that'll be
cool to have him out on course.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Very cool, all right.
Well, we're at about 40 minutesso I'm gonna wind this one down
now.
Shea aquilano, I want to saythank you so much for coming on
the podcast.
This is a great conversation.
Um, this is going to drop.
Next week.
We're going to be doing like awhole week of the trail team
where we're going to likerelease everybody's uh, you know
, kind of introducing everybody,so it'd be super fun.
Yeah, I definitely want to keepin touch.
I can't wait to have you onafter western states or before
then.
I can't wait to chat aboutthese races, these long things,
(39:01):
but I don't know how you do itwell, thank you, james.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, a great conversation yeah, super fun.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Thanks, I appreciate it yep, all right what'd you
guys think?
oh man, what a fun episode.
Like I said, I can't wait tohave back on um, just a super,
super incredible athlete andjust an inspiring human.
So, guys, also one cool thingshe recently just launched a
podcast or a shoe review sitethat you guys can find on
(39:31):
Instagram as well as YouTube.
I believe it's called Shay'sShoe Review with Carly so Carly
as well by women for women,which is pretty sweet.
So it's a women's shoe review.
I'm really stoked on this,especially because there's a lot
of dude shoe reviews out therefor dude shoes and no one's
(39:51):
talking about women's shoes, andthis is just such a space
that's needed.
So super excited to see Shayand Carly taking charge with
this one.
I'm sure it'll be extremelysuccessful.
So you can find that, like Isaid, on YouTube, at Shay's Shoe
Review with Carly, anddefinitely give them a follow
and subscribe, give them fivestars and, yeah, give them some
love, guys, before you get going.
(40:13):
Also, if you're on Instagram,hop on Instagram and give Shay a
follow.
You can find her at Shay,underscore AQ.
That's just Shay S-H-E-Aunderscore AQ.
Like I said, send her a DM, sendher some words of encouragement
, congratulate her on herdominant performance and wish
her the best of luck as she getsready for Western states and
worlds.
It's going to be quite thedouble.
Guys, if you enjoyed thisepisode, please give us a
(40:34):
five-star rating and review onApple, spotify, youtube or
wherever you consume yourpodcasts.
That would mean the world to us.
And yeah, have a great rest ofyour week.
I got more coming down thepipeline.
It's a busy week, thank you.
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