April 29, 2025 • 49 mins
For Devin Pancake, trail running represents much more than a post-collegiate athletic pursuit—it's a thoughtful 30-year journey he's just beginning. Fresh off his win at the Antelope Island Buffalo Run 25K and his selection for the 2025 Trail Team Elite, Devin brings refreshing perspective to a sport that often celebrates immediate success.
The conversation traces Devin's path from running a 4:00 mile at Utah State University to discovering trail running through iconic films like "Where Dreams Go to Die" and "Found on 49." Unlike many collegiate runners who turn to trails after burnout, Devin maintained a healthy relationship with running throughout college, crediting his coach for emphasizing sustainable development over grinding for immediate results.
Devin shares the surreal experience of racing alongside Western States champion Adam Peterman in his first ultramarathon, chatting with the elite runner for miles while pushing his own limits. This story perfectly captures his approach to trail running—competitive but joyful, serious about performance but equally focused on connection and experience. His willingness to return to Speed Goat 50K after a self-described "humbling" first attempt demonstrates his commitment to learning and growth.
What makes Devin's perspective particularly valuable is his balanced enthusiasm for everything from fast 25Ks to potential 100-milers and FKT attempts. Supported by the Trail Team Elite and coached by long-trail master Joe McConaughey through the All-In Collective, he's developing the skills to pursue both competitive excellence and soul-enriching adventures. His inspiration comes from thoughtful pioneers like Courtney Dauwalter and Jared Campbell, reflecting his own view of running as "a form of long-life meditation."
Follow Devin's journey on Instagram @devinpancake as he tackles upcoming challenges including the Desert Rats 21K, Speed Goat 50K, and potentially Sunapee Scramble Mountain Classic while preparing for his Uinta Highline Trail FKT attempt. His story reminds us that the most fulfilling path in trail running might be one that balances serious competition with genuine appreciation for the mountains and community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and let's get into another
awesome episode I've got comingfor you guys.
None other than Mr DevinPancake, the 2025 Trail Team
Elite Selection, is on the pod.
We caught up with Devin justafter his first place so his dub
at the Antelope Island BuffaloRun 25K back at the end of March
(00:24):
, beginning of April, and it'sfun to have a chat with him,
talk a lot about a bit his win,his motivators, what drives him
in the sport, what he's sointerested in doing.
I know he's got some interestin the long stuff and the short
stuff as well, so it's fungetting chat.
We also talked about hisupcoming race at the SUNYP
Scramble, which he's stokedabout, where he'll be competing
at the us mountain runningchamps in the mountain classic.
(00:44):
Uh, really fun episode.
Really like devon, probably thebest last name in all of trail
running, not gonna lie.
Um, yeah, this is a funconversation.
I hope you guys enjoy itwithout further ado.
None other than mr devonpancake.
It's time.
(01:10):
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:56):
We are live.
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think.
Devin pancake, welcome to theepStuff podcast.
How are you man?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Good.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Dude, it's great to finally have a conversation.
Congratulations on gettingselected for the Trail Team
Elite this upcoming year for2025.
That's pretty exciting news,pretty awesome, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, super pumped.
Yeah, it's a pretty coolprogram that Annie started back
in 2022.
Um, I hadn't really.
I didn't.
I've heard of it, uh, leadingup to me applying for it.
Um, just like I've seen itbefore here and there, I wasn't
really sure what it was or whatthey were about.
Um, it wasn't until I met andwent on a run with uh, garrett
(03:43):
uh, cochran, I think that's howyou pronounce his last name,
sorry, garrett, if I butcherthat Garrett the Parrot yeah,
awesome guy.
I ran with him and he was like,oh, you should, because he's
been on the club team for awhile.
He was like you should go andapply and the application's done
tonight, so you better go apply.
So I did it and wasn't reallyexpecting too much to hear back
(04:07):
and the interview went great andmakes it look to me and so,
yeah, super excited and it's agreat support that they put out
and it just helps with thatpipeline from, specifically,
people and say, trackbackgrounds to trail running.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, man.
Well, let's talk about that,let's dive into your running
background we could talk about.
Let's first talk college andthen we can kind of talk about
how you got into running.
Uh, why don't you tell theaudience like where you ran and
what, uh, I guess, like on thetrack, like what distances, uh
do you like the most, andspecialize in?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah.
So I competed for five years atUtah State University.
It's a state college.
Not a lot of people know aboutit.
It's near the border of Utahand Idaho in a town called Logan
.
It was a fantastic experience.
I loved it so much.
(05:02):
I really fell in love with thecommunity there, the town and
the program.
When I was first looking atcolleges I didn't even know,
like, going into my senior yearof high school I didn't even
know that you could compete for,like for schools in college.
My high school coach was, like,oh, you should start sending
(05:22):
you know recruitment letters toall the different colleges here
in Utah.
So that's what I did and that'swhere I ended up.
Um, the programs run by uhalready golden, uh, my opinion
fantastic coach, uh, um, butyeah, I specialize mostly in
mile 800, three K uh on thetrack.
I did do a cross country everyseason.
(05:45):
Um didn't have as much successin cross country as I did in
track Um, but yeah, specificallyin a mile um the school record
holder still for that events.
Um was able to run four flat.
Um just missed the sub fourmark, uh, so uh.
And then, yeah, I've reallyenjoyed 3k 800.
Yeah, and just yeah, I'vereally enjoyed the program,
(06:08):
really enjoyed, uh, thefriendships I made there and it
was a fantastic experience,super cool.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Let's talk about your relationship with running, Like
how did you, how did you getinto it?
Just like as a college or highschool freshman, or were you
even younger when you startedgetting into running?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, I started running pretty young, um, so I'm
originally from Ohio, um, smalltown called Columbiana it's, uh
, in the Northeast, and it wasmy.
It was the middle school coachat the time who kind of it's a
really small town.
So if you know he goes andwatches, you know gym practices
(06:44):
and gym practices and everyoneruns a mile.
And he saw me and reallyconvinced me pretty hard to come
and join the cross-country teamstarting in seventh grade.
So I did and that's kind ofwhere it started.
So I've been running for apretty long time and I've really
just enjoyed it all throughoutand then I didn't really take it
too seriously until I moved toUtah.
(07:08):
I moved to Utah in well, it waswhen I was 15, so 2015.
So I've been in Utah for almost10 years now and the level of
competition in Utah in highschool cross country and track
is pretty substantial for howsmall the population is and that
really, and even the team I wason, I had guys I was chasing
(07:30):
all the time and I was never thefastest, in any event on my
team at any given time.
So it was, you know, a greatthing to be a part of and kind
of opened my eyes to like realcompetition and allowed me to
push myself super hard and getfast times in high school.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Nice, let's go back to college, because it's
interesting to me.
I meet a lot of folks thatcompete D1 and a little bit
below as well, and it's so crazyto me how many people have
really terrible experiences incollege, especially running at
the track.
You know track um.
Was your experience a good one?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
it sounds like it was pretty good yeah, collegiate
and specifically d1 running canbe such a brutal place of
existence for, like a lot ofpeople and and it really just
depends on the program thatyou're in and the style of
coaching that you prefer andjust the environment that you're
(08:30):
in.
At Utah State it's really wellknown for kind of taking more
mediocre athletes and developingyou slowly over the course of
those four or five years thatyou're there for, um, which I
really appreciated, because, um,there's other programs where
it's kind of bringing youtowards that edge of um your
(08:54):
abilities, sometimes too far,and that leads to a lot of
injuries all the like during mytime there, um, it's all
strength and volume, uh.
So, um, during my time there, Iwas able to, you know, just
slowly build over those fouryears and the most success that
I had came in that fourth andfifth uh season that I had there
(09:16):
.
So, yeah, I think it reallyjust depends on the program
you're in and the socialenvironment and expectations.
Um, yeah, and yeah, the alreadyis a great coach and really
makes you appreciate running,like after you're done too, like
there's a lot of my teammateswho are still running to this
(09:38):
day and that's not the case fora lot of people who kind of get
burnt out pretty easily uh,during those four or five years
and kind of hate running because, uh, you know all of the weight
of expectations and bringingyou to that uh edge of your
ability kind of wears down onyou.
So, um, yeah, it was, it was aunique program and and yeah, it
(09:59):
just made me fall in love withrunning even more.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So that's so awesome, man.
I'm glad you have a goodrelationship with it.
It is so crazy, man, how manypeople are like, yeah, like I
hated running, I just didn't, Iwanted to quit.
And then a lot of them eitherquit their programs and then,
you know, three or four yearslater they discover the trails
and boom, they become, you know,professional runner on the
trail scene.
For you, like what?
What inspired you about thetrails?
(10:22):
What got you stoked on it?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, so I've been a fan of this sport since and I
was trying to today figure outwhen exactly I kind of
discovered what trail runningwas, or at least competitive.
I mean, here in Utah, like youknow, when you're training, even
in high school, you're going togo run on trails, just because
it's, you know, so adjacent tothe urban center that you live
(10:47):
in, like, if you're going to run, you'll probably end up on a
trail.
Um, as far as, like, knowingabout competitive, uh, trail
racing and specifically ultrarunning, that came when I
watched, uh, it was the found on49 documentary story of good
story of jim walmsley, fantasticand really like uh transforms
(11:09):
my like view of running and uh,it was like kind of you know,
like you know, foundational touh like my love of the sport and
uh, specifically, the love oftrail running, ultra running.
It started with that and then,you know, kind of went into the
rabbit hole.
After that I really fell inlove with, like where dreams go
(11:33):
to die, the Gary Robbins sparklymarathons documentary, and then
I watched you know the racethat eats it's young,
unbreakable, the Western States100,.
You know that eats its young,unbreakable the Western States
100, you know just these reallycool films that showcased you
know the storytelling and likethe humans behind these really
(11:54):
weird events.
And kind of watching theseevents I kind of was like what
is this Like?
Like who like what?
Like these people are going outfor a hundred miles plus and
bringing their bodies to limitand and these people, you know,
probably have a couple screwsloose, and I really like that uh
about the sport and uh aboutthe people that do it.
(12:14):
So, yeah, I kind of gotintroduced to it uh and
influenced at a young age, um,by all these different films and
uh books that I that I'd readum, like I read, uh, I forget
the, uh, the name of it.
It's, uh, it's the barkley bookand the name's facing on me.
(12:36):
But reading that and reading,um, what's the other book?
Uh, born to run.
So yeah, I still have not readborn to run, I'm like adjacently
aware of it, but not read.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Born to run, I'm like adjacently aware of it, but
I've never read it I read likewhat is it scott jurick's eat?
I think it's eat and run bookthat he yeah there's quite a few
popular ones out there, but Istill have not.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think I I have literally born to run sitting on
my bookshelf, but I've neverpicked it up, which is probably
terrible but but yeah, so Istarted at a young age absorbing
ultra and trail running contentand I kept it up Like I kept up
with the sport from there allthrough college and just
spectating it Like I would watchlike live Western States
(13:15):
coverage, live UTMB coverage.
So it's kind of it was reallyfun to follow along like
different people's careers andsee where they're at now.
And yeah, that's that's how Ikind of got into it.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I knew and I knew like, uh, like, no matter what
post-college I'm gonna go dotrails, like it's just something
I knew I really wanted to gopursue let me ask you this was
it a little weird, then maybesurreal, last year at antelope
50k to be racing adam petermanand like giving him a pretty
good fight, like I meanobviously?
Yeah you know he ultimately won, but like still, like that's
how you I became aware of youwas yeah, because of that race,
(13:55):
like talk to me about that likewhat was that experience like?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
it was okay.
So the lead up to that raceI'll start with when I graduated
.
I graduated in 2023, spring.
All summer I was working amanual labor job for the Forest
Service.
Didn't do much running, kind ofgave myself a break In the fall
, just did basic mileage.
Didn't really know what I wasgoing to do.
(14:19):
I thought I was going to go andtry to run sub four again, solo
training.
Um got two months into thatdecided you know, this isn't
making me happy I, you know,just need to hop into trails.
Like it's something I've alwayswanted to do and it interests
me and, and you know, a lot morethan trying to pursue um, this
(14:41):
track goal, um, this track goal.
So went online, went on toultra sign up looks for you know
this is like in january of 2024, just trying to find some.
You know, spring, early springtrail races saw the antelope
island one.
I was like all right, I'm gonnado the 50k um and just, you
know, do an ultra.
As my first trail race, um hadonly about like five weeks of
(15:03):
training really like of a, of atraining block where I started
like specifically doing uh, likechasing elevation during
weekend, weekly mileage and andso it was a very short train
block leading up to it.
Um had no idea who was in thefield.
I didn't even look at entranceum before.
Uh, before getting up to thestarting line, I remember
(15:27):
driving in and parking and thisother guy and what seemed like
his partner parking next to me.
And I see him get out and I'mlike, oh man, this guy looks
really familiar.
And then he starts joggingaround.
I see that he's wearing a fullon pro Hoka kit and I'm like, oh
, I was like, oh, he'sdefinitely sponsored.
And I was like he looks sofamiliar and I didn't have time
(15:48):
to like, you know, uh, mygirlfriend, my girlfriend at the
time, now fiance I was likedidn't have time to tell her to
like look up this guy.
Uh and uh, you know as peoplecoming up to him before the race
saying hi to him, and then westart and two miles in we're
running next to each other andwe start talking and I'm like,
(16:09):
uh, what's your name?
He's like adam.
I was thinking like, oh shit,like this kid just won.
Yeah, I, I was like I was like,oh, I think this is adam
peterman, because it's like youknow, the two, two weren't
clicking it.
I was like, oh, what's yourlast name?
He was like peterman and I waslike, oh, no, I was like this.
I was like I'm about to bebrought to the, to the well, on
(16:29):
my very first uh, ultra and Iremember asking him like, did
you win western states?
And he was like yeah, and I waslike I was like okay, uh, and
so it was just a like surrealexperience, like you know, just
being thrown into the ring with,you know, one of the best in
the sport, um, and it was kindof fun because you know, I'm a
(16:49):
very chatty person, um, I liketalking to people.
So I just started chatting themup while we're, uh, you know,
moving pretty quick Uh, and itwas also surreal to see the
difference of strength that Iwas lacking, especially in like
uphill power of him easilypulling away, and then I would
(17:11):
catch him back on the downs andthe straights and it was a
two-loop course, so that firstloop kind of stuck with him
almost the whole time and youknow, I was chatting to him,
getting to know about him, I waspicking his brain about whole
time and you know, was chattinghim gets, you know about always
picking his brain about winningwestern and what was what that
was like and winning worlds andum, just sort of like his
(17:33):
background and just getting toknow him and, um, I think we're
heading back out on the secondloop and I was still chatting
him up and it was like a slightdownhill and I was leading and
uh, pushing him a littledownhill and I was leading and
uh pushing him a little bit andI remember him like not talking
back as much and I was like,okay, like now we're getting a
little bit more serious and nowwe're.
(17:53):
I was like, all right, now I'mracing and I remember still
being there at like mile 20.
And I was like, okay, like youknow, if I'm still with them,
you know, maybe I could try towin this, uh, somehow, um, but
then another bit, the I thinkit's like the longest climb came
back up and, just, you know,immediately gone and, um, kind
of you know, slowly opened up agap from there and then I hit a
(18:16):
pretty big wall, like just overa marathon, started walking.
At some points um was able tojog at home, but, yeah, totally
blew up and that was on part, toyou know, it being my first
ultra and then also only takingabout I think like five or six
gels, uh, up to that point, um,uh, with like barely any feeling
(18:38):
, so bonking incredibly hard and, uh, getting dusted by him.
But yeah, we, you know, chattedafter and got to meet a lot of
people at that moment in thecommunity, the solar community,
and people like Mike Conigle.
So, yeah, it was, it wasawesome, it was fun to, to you
(19:01):
know, go in a race against himas the first, my very first
ultra.
So, yeah, that was a fantasticexperience.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Dude, what an experience and so cool, Like
because Adam's a really nice guy.
Like did you guys like did youstay in touch with him?
Like do you ever like reach outto him for pointers and stuff,
or no, not like through DMs oranything.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
He knew that I was going to do Speed Goat that year
.
At that time he wasn't doingSpeed Goat because he was still
trying to return to Western.
Then, uh, yeah, the only othertime we talked was uh, at speed
goat, like after the race.
Uh, just briefly so uh, yeah,that's up.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Opened up your first year with like 250ks.
Man, was that what it was?
250, especially speed goat,speed goats yeah, yeah,
technically three.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So I did the antelope uh, that was in march and then
end of may I did a rufa uh, Idon't know if you're familiar,
yeah, yeah, with that eventthat's uh started by jared
campbell um running up for air.
Um, I did the six hour uh eventand this was at.
It's called kive peak, it's umthis uh pretty popular uh peak
(20:16):
and trail in provo um, and Ithink it's it was around like
seven, like seven point sevenand a half to like seven to
eight miles somewhere betweenthere, uh per lap with about
like 2800 feet um per lap, and Iwas able to do four of those
within the six hours.
So it equated to like justunder like 31 miles with uh
(20:40):
11,000 feet and that was like inpreparation of speed go Um, so
technically you know, threeultras uh in the span of like
five months um to start like mytrail career.
So, and then I also did uh justa fun little local um half
marathon trail.
Uh, that's kind of out in themiddle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Nice, so you kind of opened things up in the 50K
distance.
Are you ultra curious more?
Do you want to eventually gorun 100 miles?
Because I noticed you just ranAntelope 25K which you
absolutely smashed.
What was it last weekend?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, this last Friday.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, are you a more sub-ultra guy or are you think
you want to do more ultras likewhat's, what's?
Uh, because you're so talentedyou could do either.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
yeah that's a fantastic question.
Um, because I think about allthe time, like, because I'm more
drawn towards the longerdistances, just because that's
(21:46):
what I was consuming although Iwas starting back in high school
, and that's what I wasconsuming all the way starting
back in high school and that'swhat I followed throughout
college.
And I know it's you to go anddo these short races and go rip
it, um, cause I think that wasprobably where I'm more talented
(22:07):
at is the shorter distances.
Um, especially right now, likeyou know, I'm only 24 at this
point and you know, I was onlyreally like a miler, uh, back in
college.
So I have less, like you know,I was only really like a miler
back in college, so I have less,like you know, inherent speed
that I can use on these likeshort trails, especially if it's
, like you know, nine miles orless.
(22:29):
But it's not so much what I, youknow, envision myself doing
like long term.
So I, you know, in the initialfuture, these next couple of
years, I really just want to bedoing both, like I could see
myself doing a Cirque series andthen hopping in a 100 miler.
So I find both interesting andjust as fun.
(22:50):
And, yeah, at this point.
Just want to keep it open toreally doing anything.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So that's the beauty of the sport man is you can do
it all you know, and it's kindof fun.
You can get greedy.
What is I didn't?
The beauty of the sport man isyou can do it all.
It's kind of fun, you can getgreedy.
I checked your ultra sign-up.
I didn't see you signed up foranything, but that doesn't mean
you're not.
What do you?
Got planned for 2020 for therest of your stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, in under two weeks I've got the Desert Rats
21K that's out in Farida,colorado, right on the
Utah-Colorado border.
I feel like it's good comingtogether of Boulder and Salt
Lake people to come out andcompete.
Got that lined up.
(23:29):
I signed up for Speed Goat 50Kagain this summer.
As of right now, I am on thefence of coming up to Sunapee P?
Uh and trying my hand at that.
Uh, looking at the field, it'sdeep, it's it's so deep.
Uh, so many talented people uhshowing up there and I think it
(23:51):
would just be fun to go and seehow I size up in that event.
And, uh, and it'd be reallycool just to never been in New
Hampshire before, so it'd justbe a really cool experience.
So, on the fence, about thatI'm leaning more towards yes, do
it.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Um with experience.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, and with the connection with Andy, uh, he
could possibly get me, you know,free entry into the race.
Um, so it's great to have, likethat as a resource, um, and
that support, uh from the trailteam to be able to go and do
that.
So it's makes it easier to sayyes to go and do that.
So going to do that, um, yeah.
(24:29):
And then, as far as you know,post speed goat, um, might do
another Cirque series.
I think there's the Alta one inAugust, if you know, if, if I'm
not, yeah, if I'm not, you know, totally too, destroyed by
speed goat again, um, becauselast year's speed goat was, uh,
quite the humbling experiencefor me, like just a completely
(24:51):
different behemoth as far ascompetition and then the ability
wise, like uh, yeah, cause,like, yeah, last year's like top
three was all like, uh, schemoguys.
Um, dude davidson is truly like.
Oh yeah, unbeatable like it'sinsane like how good he yeah
(25:11):
yeah, just yeah, it's in thosesteep mountain races.
He, yeah, not too many peoplein the world that can beat him,
uh, in those type of events andrunning himself about five hours
at speed goat is truly so, uhlike unbelievable, yeah, um.
And then, as far as like, yeah,post-summer, um, as of right
(25:31):
now, uh, I have plans to run afkt.
Um, it's called the unahighline trail.
Okay, it's uh about 80 miles,um, nice, yeah, and it traverses
the una range.
It's uh.
I don't know if you've everbeen out there.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I've never been there , but I know what you're talking
about.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, I spent a summer there working, working a
job out there, um, and reallyexploring the different canyons
and mountains out there, and it,yeah, it intrigues me, um, and
yeah, it's definitely not forthe faint of heart.
Not too many people have, uh,you know, gone out there and
(26:13):
done it.
Uh, it does have like a prettyextensive history though, and
yeah gonna, you know, try myhand on it.
So, along with the trail team,I have support from it's called
the all-in collective.
I don't know if you've everheard of it, so this uh is run
by, uh, joe mcconaughey.
(26:33):
Uh, if you're familiar with Joe.
Yeah, yeah.
So, um, he started this.
I forget what year he starteddoing this, um, but it's uh, him
and I think six or seven othercoaches, um, who provide
one-on-one free coaching for ayear.
Um, it's like a runningscholarship.
(26:54):
So I applied and interviewed umand got it and he took me on.
Uh, it's one of his athletes.
I'm one of his other twoathletes, um, that are part of
this program, um, and along withthat, they they sent us like a
bunch of different gear, um, so,having him uh as a coach, uh,
that's as good as it gets.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Man like yeah, pretty man.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Like yeah, pretty, it's like pretty awesome, and
like I'm so stoked about it.
Um, is, you know I I don'tthink I would attempt to go into
, uh an FKT like this unless Ihad um him behind me, uh, giving
me the the rundown of how to dosomething like that, cause you
(27:37):
know he's the expert.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, he's the long trail master dude.
That's so cool to be able to do.
I mean, first off, like I justlove the fact that, like you,
you've caught this beautifuldichotomy between competition,
but also for going for this FKT,which is competition but it's
also kind of soul enriching inits own right as well
(28:22):
no-transcript ready forsomething like that, uh, come
probably late August, septemberor somewhere around there.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
um, but yeah, I love, like I really want to be able
to try to do those both stylesat once of you know ultra
competitive races where, um, youknow you're racing against the
best in the sport, but then youalso, you know, can go out for
adventures, like I loveadventure runs uh, so much.
(28:55):
Last summer I was just hittingpeaks with my former high school
coach while he was training forhis first 100.
And just going slow and movingthrough the mountains slow and
exploring ridges and differentpeaks and new areas, I really,
really enjoy just getting outthere and appreciating it,
(29:15):
because the Wasatch Range is sobeautiful and so accessible.
So, yeah, I just really likeboth worlds, um, and not too
worried about, you know,sponsorships or money coming in
at this point, just because Idon't know.
Just yeah, I'm just, I mean,and not too worried about it if
it does or doesn't.
(29:35):
I'm here for the long run and,um, love this sport so much and
you know, this is like 30, 30year plan I have for like, like,
as I envision it's like mytrail career, and just want to
like, enjoy it and do thingsthat you know interest me the
most dude.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I love your enthusiasm, man, like it's a
really healthy place to be in.
Like you meet a lot of peoplethat especially come off the
tracks uh, tracking the roadsand like immediately want
success and like a lot of themdo find it, you know, because
they they push and push and push.
But like at the same time, likeI feel like it's really healthy
to just have this, uh, I don'tknow just like a long-term plan
and be like, well, I'm going tocontinue to learn, I'm going to
(30:15):
continue to improve and you knowthat's going to build the
healthiest and kind of the bestathlete in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, that's how I kind of view.
Where I'm at right now is justI want to be a student of the
sport by participating in it andnot so much viewing it.
You know your peak performanceand going and competing against
the best, like I want, I wantthat in my career, but at the
same time, like it's you know,doing that is exhausting and
(30:56):
really hard and isn't sosustainable to do uh, all the
time.
Um and so, yeah, especiallythese first initial years of
just kind of enjoying it andlearning and not really having
to worry about messing upbecause you know, you know
failure is like the best way, uh, to like learn in the sport and
(31:18):
uh and later down the road havesuccess.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And failure is almost guaranteed.
It happens to everybody.
Everybody has an off race ormany off races, and it's all
about learning.
Actually, on this topic, I wasgoing to ask you because you're
going back to Speed Go, so I'mgoing to ask you what do you
think that you will be able tohave improved upon from year
over year, like it will befueling, will it be just
strength and being able to applythat to different climbs?
(31:45):
And you tell me, like what doyou think?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
It'll be everything Like it'll be fueling.
Especially, it will definitelybe strength, like I thought I
was doing good training andtrying to do steep stuff, but
you know, uh, there were.
So there was like a couple ofdifferent factors.
It was definitely the climbingdestroyed me, um, in that race
(32:08):
which I mean that whole racethere's not really a flat
section, it's all climbing anddescending.
It was the heat, um, thatabsolutely killed me.
So, learning how to heat trainand prepare for the heat better,
um, that absolutely killed me.
So learning how to heat trainand prepare for the heat better,
um, and then also just gettinguh more up at altitude, uh, at
where the races is how, alreadyat altitude, like you know, here
(32:29):
in the Valley, but getting upand doing hard stuff at that
8,000, 10,000 foot level.
So it would be a bunch ofdifferent factors that I'll uh
be prepping for and and uh,having to wait better, better,
uh, building block into that.
So, um, and I learned a lotduring that, during that six and
(32:51):
a half hours that it took me uhto finish that race and uh,
yeah, it was a lot of time inyour own head.
Right, it was it was a lot oftime in your own head, right it
was.
It was a lot of time and just,like you know, on that final
climb we go up on that I forgetthe name of the Ridge, but you,
the last push, uh, the secondtime you summit a hidden peak
(33:12):
and just, you know, likestumbling backwards at some
points, like uh just, and havinglike the top four woman, uh, in
the race just zoom past me onthis like final climb and just
losing uh, spaces, uh, or likeplaces every second, which is so
humbling and so eye-openingabout, like what I need to
(33:34):
change for next year and Ireally wanted to come back to it
because it will be, it'll befun to compare and contrast what
a year's worth of preparing andlearning and preparation can do
, and maybe I'll do even worse,who knows.
So that's what I love about it.
It's just the mystery of howI'll do at these type of events,
(33:58):
of you know, how I'll do atthese type of events and yeah,
yeah, it's not even events thatI think again I I probably
perform better if it was a flat50 K, you know, uh, or flat ish,
you know rolling Hills.
But I want to, you know, dothese things that are kind of
just mysterious and uh yeah,absolutely, and make myself
(34:22):
really uncomfortable.
Uh, cause it's?
It's just like a completely newsport almost to me, and and
that's and that's what's mostexciting to me, it's just I'm
doing something completelydifferent, um, compared to track
and field and cross country.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
So super cool, super cool, dude, you gotta.
You also gotta go soon to payyou, should you gotta.
You gotta get that done, Ithink you have fun.
They're just such a goodexperience.
Like everybody's gonna be there.
Um, even broken arrow man, youshould try to get in there as
well.
Broken arrow is gonna bebananas, like yeah, it's.
It's crazy that, like this isthe year for like we're sent,
gonna be sending like two orprobably like just like a solid
(34:58):
group of people to go to theseWorlds teams.
It's going to be nuts.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, you'll have to be insanely fit to make those
teams.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
What are you running in these days?
What kind of shoes do you like?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I run in everything, so I don't have a brand that I
pick.
I like trying different brands,so I right now I have a pair of
sock, any trail um the adidassuper trail shoe that I've been
using for races past two racesum brooks, um I I really just go
(35:38):
to the running store, pick anew shoe and see if I like it.
If I don't return it and gosomething I know.
So I really try to diversifyand just try different shoes,
because I I love like trying thedifferent brands and I I've
never really stuck with like asingle brand, um, when it comes
to running shoes.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So no, I like that you gotta.
I mean dude, it's like the bestway to do it is to you know,
because different shoes work fordifferent surfaces, you know,
like that the agrivic speeds areso fast.
You know, that's like a for aflat or for something like your
25k at antelope island.
You ran the other day likethat's a perfect like shoe for
something like that, whereaslike if it was insanely
technical, sometimes it's not soeasy to run on that thing.
(36:17):
So yeah, what do you think ofthat shoe?
I'm just so curious.
I've never tried it before.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
My buddy, nick, just got a set of them and he's like
dude, it's like cheating, likethey're so, so good but not
stable at all it's the closest Ifelt to like vaporflies, like a
proper, uh, road race supershoe, um, like I've worn the
hoka, um, like I've worn thehoka x.
(36:47):
What is the tectum?
Yeah, the tectum.
I wore the tectum twos, um, fora couple races, um, and, yeah,
they have the carbon plate, butthey don't have the same feel as
like a vapor ply and theseissues have that same feel,
while still being, you know, atrail shoe.
So what I, yeah, what I wearthe tech, or sorry, the, the D
to shoe like in that speed gotype race?
(37:08):
Probably not, uh, just becausethat race does get pretty
technical and I would wantsomething more stable.
Um, but I really enjoy it Like,yeah, it I've've.
You know, I've done workoutsand and different races in like
vaporflies and, yeah, it'sdefinitely the closest feel I've
had so far as far as trailshoes go to.
(37:29):
That feel so interesting, yeah,super cool.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
All right, man, let's talk trail team.
Um, I know you're you.
Like you said before in thebeginning, you're super excited.
Um, are you going to be going?
I know they have a bunch ofmeetups this year.
I guess the grand Lake isprobably the first one, or
something like that.
Are you going to be attendingall that, are you?
What are you?
What's the stoke level, likethat?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, no, I'm super pumped so just because of, like,
what they provide at those uhcamps, uh, so I'm definitely
going try to to make each one.
Um, luckily, with my job, um,it can be pretty flexible.
So right now I work for thestate of utah.
I do, uh, it's a gis work, it'sdigital mapping almost uh, I
(38:08):
have a minor in gis actually.
Yeah, yeah, oh really, yeah,that's, that's awesome.
So, yeah, I do gis work for uh,emergency management, okay, um,
and it's nice because I work, Iwork hybrid Um, but then, like
I've also talked to my bossabout, you know, doing weeks
where I'm like fully remote indifferent places and he's down
for it.
(38:28):
So I have that flexibility to,like you know, go to these
different uh camps and events.
So I'll try to make each one asbest as I can, but definitely
gonna, uh for sure, go to thegrand lake one, so super excited
for that.
Yeah, it's just uh really cooland it's fun Cause, uh, we have,
like there's two other peoplefrom uh Utah, yeah, uh, I think,
(38:53):
oakley and Hawk.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So have you bumped into Hawk yet?
Hawk's a monster dude.
I've never.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I've never met Hawk now, uh, so good yet hawk's a
monster dude.
I've never I've never met hawk.
No, uh, so good.
So I'm planning, I'm planningon meeting up and uh running
with him and uh, yeah, Idefinitely need to reach out to
more people in the salt lakearea.
Uh, as far as going on trailruns, because there's lots of
people I've yet to meet, uh thatare uh just huge names, like in
(39:21):
the area.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
So contingent is deep .
Christian allen, christian, Iwas going to bring him up when
we're talking about speed, butspeed go like.
Christian allen is such a freak.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, my god, yeah, and incredibly talented,
probably hard worker and andit's it's cool because he you
trains in the trails but a lotof his training he's with um uh
yeah, like with uh Connor Manceand Clayton Young and that whole
group.
So, um, it's fun to see him, uhkind of balance and do both.
(39:51):
And you know, go run a two, 10,uh marathon and then, you know,
go and crush some trails.
So, yeah, I go and crush sometrails.
So, yeah, I've never metChristian either.
Um, so still a lot of peoplefor me to uh meet up with and
run with and train with.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
So, yeah, get ready, dude, you're going to be making
a lot of friends this summer,yeah, um, all right, so do we're
winding down now?
We're at about 40,.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
That's a great question and I feel like the
name that always comes to mefirst are a couple names in the
sport I appreciate and love.
It just comes from this deeplove that I also share of the
(40:57):
sport and what it means and whatit can provide as far as
finding yourself and going tothese dark places and almost
using it as a form of this longlife meditation I really
appreciate.
And her approach to liketraining is, you know, one of a
(41:19):
kind of just completely feelbased and you know she's self
coach, which is crazy and, yeah,just her overall philosophy.
Um, to the sport, I have reallyappreciated and I've like
absorbed all of her podcaststhat she's been in and, you know
, anything that she's written.
(41:40):
So, um, that's one of the namesthat comes to the mind.
Uh, like jared campbell, um,who I've never met.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Legend.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, but reading all the stuff that he's written
he's had a blog and just anyinterviews that he's in Just
these really deep thinkers andpeople who come from a good
place when it comes to the sportand wanting to make it better
(42:11):
and are just lead by example, um, I really appreciate and you
know, those are people who Iwant to be like and emulate and
that's why I like right now inthe sport of just kind of
sitting back, uh, you know,doing research, appreciating uh
where I'm at and just being aparticipant and eventually down
(42:33):
the road, like I see myself, youknow, wanting to host races,
being a race director and kindof starting things that you know
I am taking advantage of, likethe trail team, like the all-in
collective, because you know,it's stuff like this that really
pushes the sport, uh, the sportforward and I'm so appreciative
(42:56):
.
So, yeah, I think those two andthen just people like it I mean
jim um from like even just aperformance and again like a
philosophy standpoint, um,someone who I followed his
career um for a long time ofwatching all of his utmb
attempts and finally getting it,when it's just a fantastic like
(43:16):
storyline and really atestament to um how he takes
failure and uh, like, doesn'treally give up.
So, um, yeah, just really thegiants uh of the sports uh that
I've come to really appreciateand look up to, and um, yeah,
(43:38):
that's a beautiful answer, man.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
It's a lot of like you need some heavy hitters
there, yeah yeah let's talkmusic are you big music guy?
I'm huge music guy, big, hugemusic guy, yeah what's the song
that's playing in your earphonesbefore you like, maybe before
you start a workout, or like ahype song what's like.
What are you listening to?
Speaker 2 (43:58):
lately it's been a lot of uh, it's, you know, kind
of a funky name.
King gizzard and the lizardwizard is the is the name of a
band.
It's an australian, a rock band.
Okay I say rock, but they'vedabbled in just about every
genre.
Uh, on the face of the planet,they have a jazz album, you know
(44:18):
heavy metal, uh, indie pop, uh.
So they specialize in livemusic.
I've been to a couple of theirconcerts.
They're kind of, I mean, somepeople equate them.
I mean I'm a deadhead too.
I've been to a couple of theirconcerts.
They're kind of, I mean, somepeople equate them.
I mean I'm a deadhead too.
I've been to dead and companyconcerts, but some people equate
them to the modern day GratefulDead.
(44:39):
As far as their live musicfollowing, yeah, that's been
playing a lot.
Yeah, I'm mostly into softermusic too, just like the Bon
Iver, the Sufjan Stevens typestuff Like I'll listen to, like
incredibly sad stuff, likeduring my runs, which is kind of
(45:00):
funny.
I enjoy the nice calm stuffbecause, again, like this
training and like this, sport isfor me it's just a form of
meditation.
And then, like the sport is forme, it's just a form of
meditation and um, yeah, so justa real host of different stuff.
But yeah, um, big, big musicand joy.
I love going to see live stuff.
(45:22):
I'm going to be at Kobe court.
I don't know if you've everheard of that festival.
It's a local salt Lake, uh,kobe, a kobe core, it's like uh,
forget the actual name of it.
If it's kobe core or somethingelse, it's kobe something.
I've been to it before um,where a lot of big artists come
and uh, it's like a three, fourday uh music festival.
(45:44):
Um, but I'll hopefully bereturning to this year because
there's some some good bandsthere.
But yeah, I love, love, livemusic, love music in general
Nice, dude, dude, that's a greatanswer.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I, that's another one .
I've never heard of them.
I gotta, I gotta, look, give mesome things, notes to write
down for things.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Well, listen, dude, thank you so much.
I hope to get to see you atSoonipi.
Man, Definitely sign up forthat race.
Yeah, Wish you the best of luckin your 2025 season.
Also, yo go sign up for See ifyou can get an entry for Cirque
Alta as well.
I'll see you out there.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll be looking intoSoonipi.
Hopefully I'll make it outthere.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
I love your philosophy, man.
Like just doors are going toopen, so just keep with it, and
I'm excited to see where yourcareer takes you, man.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm also excited and evenif it doesn't, you know, I'm
still going to be here in thesport, you know, for a long time
.
So, uh, either, either way, um,you know I'm here for the ride
and I'm just super pumped andexcited for you know what's to
come.
So awesome man.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Well, dude, thank you for the conversation.
This will be coming out nextweek.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Sweet yeah.
Thank you so much, man.
I really appreciate you havingme.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, man, What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
Want to thank Devin so much forcoming on the pod and having to
chat before you guys get going.
Hop on Instagram and let's gethim some followers.
You can find him atdevinpancake and that's just
simply spelled DevinD-E-V-I-Npancake, P-A-N-C-A-K-E.
Just like the popular breakfastfood, the pancake, so pretty
(47:22):
awesome.
Give Devin a follow, Send himsome DMs, Let him know what you
guys thought about the episode.
I'm sure he'd love to hear yourwords of encouragement, as he's
got a really fun, excitingseason ahead of him.
Yeah, Hope you guys enjoyed thisone.
If you did enjoy it, pleasegive us a five-star rating and
review on Apple, Spotify orYouTube or wherever you consume
your podcasts.
That would mean the world to me.
That's how we can continue toshare the stories of these
(47:45):
amazing athletes as theycontinue along in their journey.
And yeah, guys, one last thingthis episode is brought to you
by Ultimate Direction.
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So enjoy, enjoy yourself, guys.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you.
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and let's get into another
awesome episode I've got comingfor you guys.
None other than Mr DevinPancake, the 2025 Trail Team
Elite Selection, is on the pod.
We caught up with Devin justafter his first place so his dub
at the Antelope Island BuffaloRun 25K back at the end of March
(00:24):
, beginning of April, and it'sfun to have a chat with him,
talk a lot about a bit his win,his motivators, what drives him
in the sport, what he's sointerested in doing.
I know he's got some interestin the long stuff and the short
stuff as well, so it's fungetting chat.
We also talked about hisupcoming race at the SUNYP
Scramble, which he's stokedabout, where he'll be competing
at the us mountain runningchamps in the mountain classic.
(00:44):
Uh, really fun episode.
Really like devon, probably thebest last name in all of trail
running, not gonna lie.
Um, yeah, this is a funconversation.
I hope you guys enjoy itwithout further ado.
None other than mr devonpancake.
It's time.
(01:10):
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
(01:56):
We are live.
Listen up, guys.
The Steep Stuff Podcast isbrought to you by ultimate
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(02:59):
pack or any hydration solutionand let me know what you guys
think.
Devin pancake, welcome to theepStuff podcast.
How are you man?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Good.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Dude, it's great to finally have a conversation.
Congratulations on gettingselected for the Trail Team
Elite this upcoming year for2025.
That's pretty exciting news,pretty awesome, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, super pumped.
Yeah, it's a pretty coolprogram that Annie started back
in 2022.
Um, I hadn't really.
I didn't.
I've heard of it, uh, leadingup to me applying for it.
Um, just like I've seen itbefore here and there, I wasn't
really sure what it was or whatthey were about.
Um, it wasn't until I met andwent on a run with uh, garrett
(03:43):
uh, cochran, I think that's howyou pronounce his last name,
sorry, garrett, if I butcherthat Garrett the Parrot yeah,
awesome guy.
I ran with him and he was like,oh, you should, because he's
been on the club team for awhile.
He was like you should go andapply and the application's done
tonight, so you better go apply.
So I did it and wasn't reallyexpecting too much to hear back
(04:07):
and the interview went great andmakes it look to me and so,
yeah, super excited and it's agreat support that they put out
and it just helps with thatpipeline from, specifically,
people and say, trackbackgrounds to trail running.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, man.
Well, let's talk about that,let's dive into your running
background we could talk about.
Let's first talk college andthen we can kind of talk about
how you got into running.
Uh, why don't you tell theaudience like where you ran and
what, uh, I guess, like on thetrack, like what distances, uh
do you like the most, andspecialize in?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah.
So I competed for five years atUtah State University.
It's a state college.
Not a lot of people know aboutit.
It's near the border of Utahand Idaho in a town called Logan
.
It was a fantastic experience.
I loved it so much.
(05:02):
I really fell in love with thecommunity there, the town and
the program.
When I was first looking atcolleges I didn't even know,
like, going into my senior yearof high school I didn't even
know that you could compete for,like for schools in college.
My high school coach was, like,oh, you should start sending
(05:22):
you know recruitment letters toall the different colleges here
in Utah.
So that's what I did and that'swhere I ended up.
Um, the programs run by uhalready golden, uh, my opinion
fantastic coach, uh, um, butyeah, I specialize mostly in
mile 800, three K uh on thetrack.
I did do a cross country everyseason.
(05:45):
Um didn't have as much successin cross country as I did in
track Um, but yeah, specificallyin a mile um the school record
holder still for that events.
Um was able to run four flat.
Um just missed the sub fourmark, uh, so uh.
And then, yeah, I've reallyenjoyed 3k 800.
Yeah, and just yeah, I'vereally enjoyed the program,
(06:08):
really enjoyed, uh, thefriendships I made there and it
was a fantastic experience,super cool.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Let's talk about your relationship with running, Like
how did you, how did you getinto it?
Just like as a college or highschool freshman, or were you
even younger when you startedgetting into running?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, I started running pretty young, um, so I'm
originally from Ohio, um, smalltown called Columbiana it's, uh
, in the Northeast, and it wasmy.
It was the middle school coachat the time who kind of it's a
really small town.
So if you know he goes andwatches, you know gym practices
(06:44):
and gym practices and everyoneruns a mile.
And he saw me and reallyconvinced me pretty hard to come
and join the cross-country teamstarting in seventh grade.
So I did and that's kind ofwhere it started.
So I've been running for apretty long time and I've really
just enjoyed it all throughoutand then I didn't really take it
too seriously until I moved toUtah.
(07:08):
I moved to Utah in well, it waswhen I was 15, so 2015.
So I've been in Utah for almost10 years now and the level of
competition in Utah in highschool cross country and track
is pretty substantial for howsmall the population is and that
really, and even the team I wason, I had guys I was chasing
(07:30):
all the time and I was never thefastest, in any event on my
team at any given time.
So it was, you know, a greatthing to be a part of and kind
of opened my eyes to like realcompetition and allowed me to
push myself super hard and getfast times in high school.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Nice, let's go back to college, because it's
interesting to me.
I meet a lot of folks thatcompete D1 and a little bit
below as well, and it's so crazyto me how many people have
really terrible experiences incollege, especially running at
the track.
You know track um.
Was your experience a good one?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
it sounds like it was pretty good yeah, collegiate
and specifically d1 running canbe such a brutal place of
existence for, like a lot ofpeople and and it really just
depends on the program thatyou're in and the style of
coaching that you prefer andjust the environment that you're
(08:30):
in.
At Utah State it's really wellknown for kind of taking more
mediocre athletes and developingyou slowly over the course of
those four or five years thatyou're there for, um, which I
really appreciated, because, um,there's other programs where
it's kind of bringing youtowards that edge of um your
(08:54):
abilities, sometimes too far,and that leads to a lot of
injuries all the like during mytime there, um, it's all
strength and volume, uh.
So, um, during my time there, Iwas able to, you know, just
slowly build over those fouryears and the most success that
I had came in that fourth andfifth uh season that I had there
(09:16):
.
So, yeah, I think it reallyjust depends on the program
you're in and the socialenvironment and expectations.
Um, yeah, and yeah, the alreadyis a great coach and really
makes you appreciate running,like after you're done too, like
there's a lot of my teammateswho are still running to this
(09:38):
day and that's not the case fora lot of people who kind of get
burnt out pretty easily uh,during those four or five years
and kind of hate running because, uh, you know all of the weight
of expectations and bringingyou to that uh edge of your
ability kind of wears down onyou.
So, um, yeah, it was, it was aunique program and and yeah, it
(09:59):
just made me fall in love withrunning even more.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So that's so awesome, man.
I'm glad you have a goodrelationship with it.
It is so crazy, man, how manypeople are like, yeah, like I
hated running, I just didn't, Iwanted to quit.
And then a lot of them eitherquit their programs and then,
you know, three or four yearslater they discover the trails
and boom, they become, you know,professional runner on the
trail scene.
For you, like what?
What inspired you about thetrails?
(10:22):
What got you stoked on it?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, so I've been a fan of this sport since and I
was trying to today figure outwhen exactly I kind of
discovered what trail runningwas, or at least competitive.
I mean, here in Utah, like youknow, when you're training, even
in high school, you're going togo run on trails, just because
it's, you know, so adjacent tothe urban center that you live
(10:47):
in, like, if you're going to run, you'll probably end up on a
trail.
Um, as far as, like, knowingabout competitive, uh, trail
racing and specifically ultrarunning, that came when I
watched, uh, it was the found on49 documentary story of good
story of jim walmsley, fantasticand really like uh transforms
(11:09):
my like view of running and uh,it was like kind of you know,
like you know, foundational touh like my love of the sport and
uh, specifically, the love oftrail running, ultra running.
It started with that and then,you know, kind of went into the
rabbit hole.
After that I really fell inlove with, like where dreams go
(11:33):
to die, the Gary Robbins sparklymarathons documentary, and then
I watched you know the racethat eats it's young,
unbreakable, the Western States100,.
You know that eats its young,unbreakable the Western States
100, you know just these reallycool films that showcased you
know the storytelling and likethe humans behind these really
(11:54):
weird events.
And kind of watching theseevents I kind of was like what
is this Like?
Like who like what?
Like these people are going outfor a hundred miles plus and
bringing their bodies to limitand and these people, you know,
probably have a couple screwsloose, and I really like that uh
about the sport and uh aboutthe people that do it.
(12:14):
So, yeah, I kind of gotintroduced to it uh and
influenced at a young age, um,by all these different films and
uh books that I that I'd readum, like I read, uh, I forget
the, uh, the name of it.
It's, uh, it's the barkley bookand the name's facing on me.
(12:36):
But reading that and reading,um, what's the other book?
Uh, born to run.
So yeah, I still have not readborn to run, I'm like adjacently
aware of it, but not read.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Born to run, I'm like adjacently aware of it, but
I've never read it I read likewhat is it scott jurick's eat?
I think it's eat and run bookthat he yeah there's quite a few
popular ones out there, but Istill have not.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think I I have literally born to run sitting on
my bookshelf, but I've neverpicked it up, which is probably
terrible but but yeah, so Istarted at a young age absorbing
ultra and trail running contentand I kept it up Like I kept up
with the sport from there allthrough college and just
spectating it Like I would watchlike live Western States
(13:15):
coverage, live UTMB coverage.
So it's kind of it was reallyfun to follow along like
different people's careers andsee where they're at now.
And yeah, that's that's how Ikind of got into it.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I knew and I knew like, uh, like, no matter what
post-college I'm gonna go dotrails, like it's just something
I knew I really wanted to gopursue let me ask you this was
it a little weird, then maybesurreal, last year at antelope
50k to be racing adam petermanand like giving him a pretty
good fight, like I meanobviously?
Yeah you know he ultimately won, but like still, like that's
how you I became aware of youwas yeah, because of that race,
(13:55):
like talk to me about that likewhat was that experience like?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
it was okay.
So the lead up to that raceI'll start with when I graduated
.
I graduated in 2023, spring.
All summer I was working amanual labor job for the Forest
Service.
Didn't do much running, kind ofgave myself a break In the fall
, just did basic mileage.
Didn't really know what I wasgoing to do.
(14:19):
I thought I was going to go andtry to run sub four again, solo
training.
Um got two months into thatdecided you know, this isn't
making me happy I, you know,just need to hop into trails.
Like it's something I've alwayswanted to do and it interests
me and, and you know, a lot morethan trying to pursue um, this
(14:41):
track goal, um, this track goal.
So went online, went on toultra sign up looks for you know
this is like in january of 2024, just trying to find some.
You know, spring, early springtrail races saw the antelope
island one.
I was like all right, I'm gonnado the 50k um and just, you
know, do an ultra.
As my first trail race, um hadonly about like five weeks of
(15:03):
training really like of a, of atraining block where I started
like specifically doing uh, likechasing elevation during
weekend, weekly mileage and andso it was a very short train
block leading up to it.
Um had no idea who was in thefield.
I didn't even look at entranceum before.
Uh, before getting up to thestarting line, I remember
(15:27):
driving in and parking and thisother guy and what seemed like
his partner parking next to me.
And I see him get out and I'mlike, oh man, this guy looks
really familiar.
And then he starts joggingaround.
I see that he's wearing a fullon pro Hoka kit and I'm like, oh
, I was like, oh, he'sdefinitely sponsored.
And I was like he looks sofamiliar and I didn't have time
(15:48):
to like, you know, uh, mygirlfriend, my girlfriend at the
time, now fiance I was likedidn't have time to tell her to
like look up this guy.
Uh and uh, you know as peoplecoming up to him before the race
saying hi to him, and then westart and two miles in we're
running next to each other andwe start talking and I'm like,
(16:09):
uh, what's your name?
He's like adam.
I was thinking like, oh shit,like this kid just won.
Yeah, I, I was like I was like,oh, I think this is adam
peterman, because it's like youknow, the two, two weren't
clicking it.
I was like, oh, what's yourlast name?
He was like peterman and I waslike, oh, no, I was like this.
I was like I'm about to bebrought to the, to the well, on
(16:29):
my very first uh, ultra and Iremember asking him like, did
you win western states?
And he was like yeah, and I waslike I was like okay, uh, and
so it was just a like surrealexperience, like you know, just
being thrown into the ring with,you know, one of the best in
the sport, um, and it was kindof fun because you know, I'm a
(16:49):
very chatty person, um, I liketalking to people.
So I just started chatting themup while we're, uh, you know,
moving pretty quick Uh, and itwas also surreal to see the
difference of strength that Iwas lacking, especially in like
uphill power of him easilypulling away, and then I would
(17:11):
catch him back on the downs andthe straights and it was a
two-loop course, so that firstloop kind of stuck with him
almost the whole time and youknow, I was chatting to him,
getting to know about him, I waspicking his brain about whole
time and you know, was chattinghim gets, you know about always
picking his brain about winningwestern and what was what that
was like and winning worlds andum, just sort of like his
(17:33):
background and just getting toknow him and, um, I think we're
heading back out on the secondloop and I was still chatting
him up and it was like a slightdownhill and I was leading and
uh, pushing him a littledownhill and I was leading and
uh pushing him a little bit andI remember him like not talking
back as much and I was like,okay, like now we're getting a
little bit more serious and nowwe're.
(17:53):
I was like, all right, now I'mracing and I remember still
being there at like mile 20.
And I was like, okay, like youknow, if I'm still with them,
you know, maybe I could try towin this, uh, somehow, um, but
then another bit, the I thinkit's like the longest climb came
back up and, just, you know,immediately gone and, um, kind
of you know, slowly opened up agap from there and then I hit a
(18:16):
pretty big wall, like just overa marathon, started walking.
At some points um was able tojog at home, but, yeah, totally
blew up and that was on part, toyou know, it being my first
ultra and then also only takingabout I think like five or six
gels, uh, up to that point, um,uh, with like barely any feeling
(18:38):
, so bonking incredibly hard and, uh, getting dusted by him.
But yeah, we, you know, chattedafter and got to meet a lot of
people at that moment in thecommunity, the solar community,
and people like Mike Conigle.
So, yeah, it was, it wasawesome, it was fun to, to you
(19:01):
know, go in a race against himas the first, my very first
ultra.
So, yeah, that was a fantasticexperience.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Dude, what an experience and so cool, Like
because Adam's a really nice guy.
Like did you guys like did youstay in touch with him?
Like do you ever like reach outto him for pointers and stuff,
or no, not like through DMs oranything.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
He knew that I was going to do Speed Goat that year
.
At that time he wasn't doingSpeed Goat because he was still
trying to return to Western.
Then, uh, yeah, the only othertime we talked was uh, at speed
goat, like after the race.
Uh, just briefly so uh, yeah,that's up.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Opened up your first year with like 250ks.
Man, was that what it was?
250, especially speed goat,speed goats yeah, yeah,
technically three.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So I did the antelope uh, that was in march and then
end of may I did a rufa uh, Idon't know if you're familiar,
yeah, yeah, with that eventthat's uh started by jared
campbell um running up for air.
Um, I did the six hour uh eventand this was at.
It's called kive peak, it's umthis uh pretty popular uh peak
(20:16):
and trail in provo um, and Ithink it's it was around like
seven, like seven point sevenand a half to like seven to
eight miles somewhere betweenthere, uh per lap with about
like 2800 feet um per lap, and Iwas able to do four of those
within the six hours.
So it equated to like justunder like 31 miles with uh
(20:40):
11,000 feet and that was like inpreparation of speed go Um, so
technically you know, threeultras uh in the span of like
five months um to start like mytrail career.
So, and then I also did uh justa fun little local um half
marathon trail.
Uh, that's kind of out in themiddle of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Nice, so you kind of opened things up in the 50K
distance.
Are you ultra curious more?
Do you want to eventually gorun 100 miles?
Because I noticed you just ranAntelope 25K which you
absolutely smashed.
What was it last weekend?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, this last Friday.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, are you a more sub-ultra guy or are you think
you want to do more ultras likewhat's, what's?
Uh, because you're so talentedyou could do either.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
yeah that's a fantastic question.
Um, because I think about allthe time, like, because I'm more
drawn towards the longerdistances, just because that's
(21:46):
what I was consuming although Iwas starting back in high school
, and that's what I wasconsuming all the way starting
back in high school and that'swhat I followed throughout
college.
And I know it's you to go anddo these short races and go rip
it, um, cause I think that wasprobably where I'm more talented
(22:07):
at is the shorter distances.
Um, especially right now, likeyou know, I'm only 24 at this
point and you know, I was onlyreally like a miler, uh, back in
college.
So I have less, like you know,I was only really like a miler
back in college, so I have less,like you know, inherent speed
that I can use on these likeshort trails, especially if it's
, like you know, nine miles orless.
(22:29):
But it's not so much what I, youknow, envision myself doing
like long term.
So I, you know, in the initialfuture, these next couple of
years, I really just want to bedoing both, like I could see
myself doing a Cirque series andthen hopping in a 100 miler.
So I find both interesting andjust as fun.
(22:50):
And, yeah, at this point.
Just want to keep it open toreally doing anything.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So that's the beauty of the sport man is you can do
it all you know, and it's kindof fun.
You can get greedy.
What is I didn't?
The beauty of the sport man isyou can do it all.
It's kind of fun, you can getgreedy.
I checked your ultra sign-up.
I didn't see you signed up foranything, but that doesn't mean
you're not.
What do you?
Got planned for 2020 for therest of your stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, in under two weeks I've got the Desert Rats
21K that's out in Farida,colorado, right on the
Utah-Colorado border.
I feel like it's good comingtogether of Boulder and Salt
Lake people to come out andcompete.
Got that lined up.
(23:29):
I signed up for Speed Goat 50Kagain this summer.
As of right now, I am on thefence of coming up to Sunapee P?
Uh and trying my hand at that.
Uh, looking at the field, it'sdeep, it's it's so deep.
Uh, so many talented people uhshowing up there and I think it
(23:51):
would just be fun to go and seehow I size up in that event.
And, uh, and it'd be reallycool just to never been in New
Hampshire before, so it'd justbe a really cool experience.
So, on the fence, about thatI'm leaning more towards yes, do
it.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Um with experience.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, and with the connection with Andy, uh, he
could possibly get me, you know,free entry into the race.
Um, so it's great to have, likethat as a resource, um, and
that support, uh from the trailteam to be able to go and do
that.
So it's makes it easier to sayyes to go and do that.
So going to do that, um, yeah.
(24:29):
And then, as far as you know,post speed goat, um, might do
another Cirque series.
I think there's the Alta one inAugust, if you know, if, if I'm
not, yeah, if I'm not, you know, totally too, destroyed by
speed goat again, um, becauselast year's speed goat was, uh,
quite the humbling experiencefor me, like just a completely
(24:51):
different behemoth as far ascompetition and then the ability
wise, like uh, yeah, cause,like, yeah, last year's like top
three was all like, uh, schemoguys.
Um, dude davidson is truly like.
Oh yeah, unbeatable like it'sinsane like how good he yeah
(25:11):
yeah, just yeah, it's in thosesteep mountain races.
He, yeah, not too many peoplein the world that can beat him,
uh, in those type of events andrunning himself about five hours
at speed goat is truly so, uhlike unbelievable, yeah, um.
And then, as far as like, yeah,post-summer, um, as of right
(25:31):
now, uh, I have plans to run afkt.
Um, it's called the unahighline trail.
Okay, it's uh about 80 miles,um, nice, yeah, and it traverses
the una range.
It's uh.
I don't know if you've everbeen out there.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I've never been there , but I know what you're talking
about.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, I spent a summer there working, working a
job out there, um, and reallyexploring the different canyons
and mountains out there, and it,yeah, it intrigues me, um, and
yeah, it's definitely not forthe faint of heart.
Not too many people have, uh,you know, gone out there and
(26:13):
done it.
Uh, it does have like a prettyextensive history though, and
yeah gonna, you know, try myhand on it.
So, along with the trail team,I have support from it's called
the all-in collective.
I don't know if you've everheard of it, so this uh is run
by, uh, joe mcconaughey.
(26:33):
Uh, if you're familiar with Joe.
Yeah, yeah.
So, um, he started this.
I forget what year he starteddoing this, um, but it's uh, him
and I think six or seven othercoaches, um, who provide
one-on-one free coaching for ayear.
Um, it's like a runningscholarship.
(26:54):
So I applied and interviewed umand got it and he took me on.
Uh, it's one of his athletes.
I'm one of his other twoathletes, um, that are part of
this program, um, and along withthat, they they sent us like a
bunch of different gear, um, so,having him uh as a coach, uh,
that's as good as it gets.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Man like yeah, pretty man.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Like yeah, pretty, it's like pretty awesome, and
like I'm so stoked about it.
Um, is, you know I I don'tthink I would attempt to go into
, uh an FKT like this unless Ihad um him behind me, uh, giving
me the the rundown of how to dosomething like that, cause you
(27:37):
know he's the expert.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, he's the long trail master dude.
That's so cool to be able to do.
I mean, first off, like I justlove the fact that, like you,
you've caught this beautifuldichotomy between competition,
but also for going for this FKT,which is competition but it's
also kind of soul enriching inits own right as well
(28:22):
no-transcript ready forsomething like that, uh, come
probably late August, septemberor somewhere around there.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
um, but yeah, I love, like I really want to be able
to try to do those both stylesat once of you know ultra
competitive races where, um, youknow you're racing against the
best in the sport, but then youalso, you know, can go out for
adventures, like I loveadventure runs uh, so much.
(28:55):
Last summer I was just hittingpeaks with my former high school
coach while he was training forhis first 100.
And just going slow and movingthrough the mountains slow and
exploring ridges and differentpeaks and new areas, I really,
really enjoy just getting outthere and appreciating it,
(29:15):
because the Wasatch Range is sobeautiful and so accessible.
So, yeah, I just really likeboth worlds, um, and not too
worried about, you know,sponsorships or money coming in
at this point, just because Idon't know.
Just yeah, I'm just, I mean,and not too worried about it if
it does or doesn't.
(29:35):
I'm here for the long run and,um, love this sport so much and
you know, this is like 30, 30year plan I have for like, like,
as I envision it's like mytrail career, and just want to
like, enjoy it and do thingsthat you know interest me the
most dude.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I love your enthusiasm, man, like it's a
really healthy place to be in.
Like you meet a lot of peoplethat especially come off the
tracks uh, tracking the roadsand like immediately want
success and like a lot of themdo find it, you know, because
they they push and push and push.
But like at the same time, likeI feel like it's really healthy
to just have this, uh, I don'tknow just like a long-term plan
and be like, well, I'm going tocontinue to learn, I'm going to
(30:15):
continue to improve and you knowthat's going to build the
healthiest and kind of the bestathlete in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah, that's how I kind of view.
Where I'm at right now is justI want to be a student of the
sport by participating in it andnot so much viewing it.
You know your peak performanceand going and competing against
the best, like I want, I wantthat in my career, but at the
same time, like it's you know,doing that is exhausting and
(30:56):
really hard and isn't sosustainable to do uh, all the
time.
Um and so, yeah, especiallythese first initial years of
just kind of enjoying it andlearning and not really having
to worry about messing upbecause you know, you know
failure is like the best way, uh, to like learn in the sport and
(31:18):
uh and later down the road havesuccess.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And failure is almost guaranteed.
It happens to everybody.
Everybody has an off race ormany off races, and it's all
about learning.
Actually, on this topic, I wasgoing to ask you because you're
going back to Speed Go, so I'mgoing to ask you what do you
think that you will be able tohave improved upon from year
over year, like it will befueling, will it be just
strength and being able to applythat to different climbs?
(31:45):
And you tell me, like what doyou think?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
It'll be everything Like it'll be fueling.
Especially, it will definitelybe strength, like I thought I
was doing good training andtrying to do steep stuff, but
you know, uh, there were.
So there was like a couple ofdifferent factors.
It was definitely the climbingdestroyed me, um, in that race
(32:08):
which I mean that whole racethere's not really a flat
section, it's all climbing anddescending.
It was the heat, um, thatabsolutely killed me.
So, learning how to heat trainand prepare for the heat better,
um, that absolutely killed me.
So learning how to heat trainand prepare for the heat better,
um, and then also just gettinguh more up at altitude, uh, at
where the races is how, alreadyat altitude, like you know, here
(32:29):
in the Valley, but getting upand doing hard stuff at that
8,000, 10,000 foot level.
So it would be a bunch ofdifferent factors that I'll uh
be prepping for and and uh,having to wait better, better,
uh, building block into that.
So, um, and I learned a lotduring that, during that six and
(32:51):
a half hours that it took me uhto finish that race and uh,
yeah, it was a lot of time inyour own head.
Right, it was it was a lot oftime in your own head, right it
was.
It was a lot of time and just,like you know, on that final
climb we go up on that I forgetthe name of the Ridge, but you,
the last push, uh, the secondtime you summit a hidden peak
(33:12):
and just, you know, likestumbling backwards at some
points, like uh just, and havinglike the top four woman, uh, in
the race just zoom past me onthis like final climb and just
losing uh, spaces, uh, or likeplaces every second, which is so
humbling and so eye-openingabout, like what I need to
(33:34):
change for next year and Ireally wanted to come back to it
because it will be, it'll befun to compare and contrast what
a year's worth of preparing andlearning and preparation can do
, and maybe I'll do even worse,who knows.
So that's what I love about it.
It's just the mystery of howI'll do at these type of events,
(33:58):
of you know, how I'll do atthese type of events and yeah,
yeah, it's not even events thatI think again I I probably
perform better if it was a flat50 K, you know, uh, or flat ish,
you know rolling Hills.
But I want to, you know, dothese things that are kind of
just mysterious and uh yeah,absolutely, and make myself
(34:22):
really uncomfortable.
Uh, cause it's?
It's just like a completely newsport almost to me, and and
that's and that's what's mostexciting to me, it's just I'm
doing something completelydifferent, um, compared to track
and field and cross country.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
So super cool, super cool, dude, you gotta.
You also gotta go soon to payyou, should you gotta.
You gotta get that done, Ithink you have fun.
They're just such a goodexperience.
Like everybody's gonna be there.
Um, even broken arrow man, youshould try to get in there as
well.
Broken arrow is gonna bebananas, like yeah, it's.
It's crazy that, like this isthe year for like we're sent,
gonna be sending like two orprobably like just like a solid
(34:58):
group of people to go to theseWorlds teams.
It's going to be nuts.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, you'll have to be insanely fit to make those
teams.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
What are you running in these days?
What kind of shoes do you like?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I run in everything, so I don't have a brand that I
pick.
I like trying different brands,so I right now I have a pair of
sock, any trail um the adidassuper trail shoe that I've been
using for races past two racesum brooks, um I I really just go
(35:38):
to the running store, pick anew shoe and see if I like it.
If I don't return it and gosomething I know.
So I really try to diversifyand just try different shoes,
because I I love like trying thedifferent brands and I I've
never really stuck with like asingle brand, um, when it comes
to running shoes.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So no, I like that you gotta.
I mean dude, it's like the bestway to do it is to you know,
because different shoes work fordifferent surfaces, you know,
like that the agrivic speeds areso fast.
You know, that's like a for aflat or for something like your
25k at antelope island.
You ran the other day likethat's a perfect like shoe for
something like that, whereaslike if it was insanely
technical, sometimes it's not soeasy to run on that thing.
(36:17):
So yeah, what do you think ofthat shoe?
I'm just so curious.
I've never tried it before.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
My buddy, nick, just got a set of them and he's like
dude, it's like cheating, likethey're so, so good but not
stable at all it's the closest Ifelt to like vaporflies, like a
proper, uh, road race supershoe, um, like I've worn the
hoka, um, like I've worn thehoka x.
(36:47):
What is the tectum?
Yeah, the tectum.
I wore the tectum twos, um, fora couple races, um, and, yeah,
they have the carbon plate, butthey don't have the same feel as
like a vapor ply and theseissues have that same feel,
while still being, you know, atrail shoe.
So what I, yeah, what I wearthe tech, or sorry, the, the D
to shoe like in that speed gotype race?
(37:08):
Probably not, uh, just becausethat race does get pretty
technical and I would wantsomething more stable.
Um, but I really enjoy it Like,yeah, it I've've.
You know, I've done workoutsand and different races in like
vaporflies and, yeah, it'sdefinitely the closest feel I've
had so far as far as trailshoes go to.
(37:29):
That feel so interesting, yeah,super cool.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
All right, man, let's talk trail team.
Um, I know you're you.
Like you said before in thebeginning, you're super excited.
Um, are you going to be going?
I know they have a bunch ofmeetups this year.
I guess the grand Lake isprobably the first one, or
something like that.
Are you going to be attendingall that, are you?
What are you?
What's the stoke level, likethat?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, no, I'm super pumped so just because of, like,
what they provide at those uhcamps, uh, so I'm definitely
going try to to make each one.
Um, luckily, with my job, um,it can be pretty flexible.
So right now I work for thestate of utah.
I do, uh, it's a gis work, it'sdigital mapping almost uh, I
(38:08):
have a minor in gis actually.
Yeah, yeah, oh really, yeah,that's, that's awesome.
So, yeah, I do gis work for uh,emergency management, okay, um,
and it's nice because I work, Iwork hybrid Um, but then, like
I've also talked to my bossabout, you know, doing weeks
where I'm like fully remote indifferent places and he's down
for it.
(38:28):
So I have that flexibility to,like you know, go to these
different uh camps and events.
So I'll try to make each one asbest as I can, but definitely
gonna, uh for sure, go to thegrand lake one, so super excited
for that.
Yeah, it's just uh really cooland it's fun Cause, uh, we have,
like there's two other peoplefrom uh Utah, yeah, uh, I think,
(38:53):
oakley and Hawk.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
So have you bumped into Hawk yet?
Hawk's a monster dude.
I've never.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I've never met Hawk now, uh, so good yet hawk's a
monster dude.
I've never I've never met hawk.
No, uh, so good.
So I'm planning, I'm planningon meeting up and uh running
with him and uh, yeah, Idefinitely need to reach out to
more people in the salt lakearea.
Uh, as far as going on trailruns, because there's lots of
people I've yet to meet, uh thatare uh just huge names, like in
(39:21):
the area.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
So contingent is deep .
Christian allen, christian, Iwas going to bring him up when
we're talking about speed, butspeed go like.
Christian allen is such a freak.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, my god, yeah, and incredibly talented,
probably hard worker and andit's it's cool because he you
trains in the trails but a lotof his training he's with um uh
yeah, like with uh Connor Manceand Clayton Young and that whole
group.
So, um, it's fun to see him, uhkind of balance and do both.
(39:51):
And you know, go run a two, 10,uh marathon and then, you know,
go and crush some trails.
So, yeah, I go and crush sometrails.
So, yeah, I've never metChristian either.
Um, so still a lot of peoplefor me to uh meet up with and
run with and train with.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
So, yeah, get ready, dude, you're going to be making
a lot of friends this summer,yeah, um, all right, so do we're
winding down now?
We're at about 40,.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
That's a great question and I feel like the
name that always comes to mefirst are a couple names in the
sport I appreciate and love.
It just comes from this deeplove that I also share of the
(40:57):
sport and what it means and whatit can provide as far as
finding yourself and going tothese dark places and almost
using it as a form of this longlife meditation I really
appreciate.
And her approach to liketraining is, you know, one of a
(41:19):
kind of just completely feelbased and you know she's self
coach, which is crazy and, yeah,just her overall philosophy.
Um, to the sport, I have reallyappreciated and I've like
absorbed all of her podcaststhat she's been in and, you know
, anything that she's written.
(41:40):
So, um, that's one of the namesthat comes to the mind.
Uh, like jared campbell, um,who I've never met.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Legend.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, but reading all the stuff that he's written
he's had a blog and just anyinterviews that he's in Just
these really deep thinkers andpeople who come from a good
place when it comes to the sportand wanting to make it better
(42:11):
and are just lead by example, um, I really appreciate and you
know, those are people who Iwant to be like and emulate and
that's why I like right now inthe sport of just kind of
sitting back, uh, you know,doing research, appreciating uh
where I'm at and just being aparticipant and eventually down
(42:33):
the road, like I see myself, youknow, wanting to host races,
being a race director and kindof starting things that you know
I am taking advantage of, likethe trail team, like the all-in
collective, because you know,it's stuff like this that really
pushes the sport, uh, the sportforward and I'm so appreciative
(42:56):
.
So, yeah, I think those two andthen just people like it I mean
jim um from like even just aperformance and again like a
philosophy standpoint, um,someone who I followed his
career um for a long time ofwatching all of his utmb
attempts and finally getting it,when it's just a fantastic like
(43:16):
storyline and really atestament to um how he takes
failure and uh, like, doesn'treally give up.
So, um, yeah, just really thegiants uh of the sports uh that
I've come to really appreciateand look up to, and um, yeah,
(43:38):
that's a beautiful answer, man.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
It's a lot of like you need some heavy hitters
there, yeah yeah let's talkmusic are you big music guy?
I'm huge music guy, big, hugemusic guy, yeah what's the song
that's playing in your earphonesbefore you like, maybe before
you start a workout, or like ahype song what's like.
What are you listening to?
Speaker 2 (43:58):
lately it's been a lot of uh, it's, you know, kind
of a funky name.
King gizzard and the lizardwizard is the is the name of a
band.
It's an australian, a rock band.
Okay I say rock, but they'vedabbled in just about every
genre.
Uh, on the face of the planet,they have a jazz album, you know
(44:18):
heavy metal, uh, indie pop, uh.
So they specialize in livemusic.
I've been to a couple of theirconcerts.
They're kind of, I mean, somepeople equate them.
I mean I'm a deadhead too.
I've been to a couple of theirconcerts.
They're kind of, I mean, somepeople equate them.
I mean I'm a deadhead too.
I've been to dead and companyconcerts, but some people equate
them to the modern day GratefulDead.
(44:39):
As far as their live musicfollowing, yeah, that's been
playing a lot.
Yeah, I'm mostly into softermusic too, just like the Bon
Iver, the Sufjan Stevens typestuff Like I'll listen to, like
incredibly sad stuff, likeduring my runs, which is kind of
(45:00):
funny.
I enjoy the nice calm stuffbecause, again, like this
training and like this, sport isfor me it's just a form of
meditation.
And then, like the sport is forme, it's just a form of
meditation and um, yeah, so justa real host of different stuff.
But yeah, um, big, big musicand joy.
I love going to see live stuff.
(45:22):
I'm going to be at Kobe court.
I don't know if you've everheard of that festival.
It's a local salt Lake, uh,kobe, a kobe core, it's like uh,
forget the actual name of it.
If it's kobe core or somethingelse, it's kobe something.
I've been to it before um,where a lot of big artists come
and uh, it's like a three, fourday uh music festival.
(45:44):
Um, but I'll hopefully bereturning to this year because
there's some some good bandsthere.
But yeah, I love, love, livemusic, love music in general
Nice, dude, dude, that's a greatanswer.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I, that's another one .
I've never heard of them.
I gotta, I gotta, look, give mesome things, notes to write
down for things.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Well, listen, dude, thank you so much.
I hope to get to see you atSoonipi.
Man, Definitely sign up forthat race.
Yeah, Wish you the best of luckin your 2025 season.
Also, yo go sign up for See ifyou can get an entry for Cirque
Alta as well.
I'll see you out there.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll be looking intoSoonipi.
Hopefully I'll make it outthere.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
I love your philosophy, man.
Like just doors are going toopen, so just keep with it, and
I'm excited to see where yourcareer takes you, man.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Thank you.
Yeah, I'm also excited and evenif it doesn't, you know, I'm
still going to be here in thesport, you know, for a long time
.
So, uh, either, either way, um,you know I'm here for the ride
and I'm just super pumped andexcited for you know what's to
come.
So awesome man.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Well, dude, thank you for the conversation.
This will be coming out nextweek.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Sweet yeah.
Thank you so much, man.
I really appreciate you havingme.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, man, What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
Want to thank Devin so much forcoming on the pod and having to
chat before you guys get going.
Hop on Instagram and let's gethim some followers.
You can find him atdevinpancake and that's just
simply spelled DevinD-E-V-I-Npancake, P-A-N-C-A-K-E.
Just like the popular breakfastfood, the pancake, so pretty
(47:22):
awesome.
Give Devin a follow, Send himsome DMs, Let him know what you
guys thought about the episode.
I'm sure he'd love to hear yourwords of encouragement, as he's
got a really fun, excitingseason ahead of him.
Yeah, Hope you guys enjoyed thisone.
If you did enjoy it, pleasegive us a five-star rating and
review on Apple, Spotify orYouTube or wherever you consume
your podcasts.
That would mean the world to me.
That's how we can continue toshare the stories of these
(47:45):
amazing athletes as theycontinue along in their journey.
And yeah, guys, one last thingthis episode is brought to you
by Ultimate Direction.
Ultimate Direction finally justdropped their new RaceVest 6
liter and UltraVest 12 liter insome beautiful colorways.
This really aesthetic white andblue that I love.
That's the one I've been using,as well as this onyx and green
(48:09):
one, which is really beautifulas well.
Hop on ultimate directioncomand use code steep stuff pod for
25% off.
They're already affordablypriced, but you know what you
steep steep stuff pod for 25%off and you're going to get
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So enjoy, enjoy yourself, guys.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you.
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