#96 - Abby Bennett

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From the first moment Abby Bennett stepped onto the technical, demanding trails of the White Mountains, she knew she'd found her calling – despite having no competitive running background whatsoever. Now, as one of the Northeast's strongest mountain runners, she shares the remarkable journey that's taken her from financial services burnout to mountain race podiums.

What makes someone believe they can reach the pinnacle of a sport they started as an adult? Abby's answer is refreshingly straightforward: an almost "delusional" belief in her future self, coupled with relentless daily consistency. The results are undeniable – multiple podium finishes at the White Mountain Endurance Cup series and a growing reputation in the technical mountain running community.

This conversation dives deep into the reality of training through brutal Northeast winters, where deep cold and minimal daylight create resilient athletes capable of handling any terrain. We explore her ventures into ski mountaineering, her time as an isolated mountain hut caretaker, and the mental challenges of her current injury-induced training pause.

Perhaps most compelling is Abby's perspective on growth potential. Despite her rapid rise, she estimates she's only reached 40% of her ceiling – a testament to her long-term vision of where consistent training might take her over the next decade. For anyone who started their athletic journey later in life, her story offers both inspiration and practical insights into building sustainable success.

Whether you're fascinated by the Northeast's technical racing scene, curious about the mental aspects of injury recovery, or simply drawn to stories of unconventional athletic paths, this conversation will challenge your assumptions about what's possible when unwavering belief meets consistent effort.

Follow Abby on IG - @abby.j.bennett

Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello

Follow The Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod

This episode was brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA. Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your next order on ultimatedirection.com 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lauriello,and I'm so excited to bring you
guys an episode today with noneother than Miss Abby Bennett,
born and raised in Maine and nowresides in New Hampshire, kind
of at the foothills or the base,if you will, of Mount
Washington and the presidentialtraverse.
It was super fun to have agreat conversation with Abby.

(00:21):
We caught up to talk all aboutthe White Mountain Endurance Cup
that she had raced last yearand jumped on numerous podiums
of, as well as the podium of theoverall.
We talked about what thesub-ultra scene is like,
especially living in theNortheast, and how many sweet
races there are and how thingshave slowly changed as more and
more races have kind of enteredthe fold in the Northeast.
We talk about training and howto prepare and be a formidable

(00:44):
endurance athlete.
Coming out of the Northeast, Iknow those winters are pretty
brutal and what it's like totrain without sun for a long
period of time.
It's a lot different than theWest.
We also talked about injury andhow to deal with it.
Abby's dealing with an injuryright now and we talked about
some of the mental components ofit, of it.
On top of that, we got intoSchemo.
Abby's also pretty active onthe Schemo scene.

(01:05):
She did a few of her firstSchemo races this summer and out
West, and we talked about whatthe Schemo scene was like in the
Northeast and how the scene isstarting to grow in North
America, particularly in theNortheast right now, which is
pretty cool to see as well.
So, without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
This is a personal favorite ofmine.
I guys enjoy this one.

(01:32):
This is a personal favorite ofmine.
I really enjoyed thisconversation and wishing Abby
all the best of luck as shebounces back from injury and as
she prepares for her 2025 season.
So here we go, without furtherado none other than Abby Bennett
.
It's time.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
We are live.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
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Abby Bennett, welcome to theSteep Stuff Podcast.
How's it going?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's going okay.
Could be better, but it couldbe worse.
I'm dealing with an injuryright now.
You're probably talking to meat my lowest point in my entire
running career, but that's okay,we'll get through it, but not
to launch into it that much.
But yeah, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 (04:00):
I'm doing okay.
I'm doing okay.
I'm bummed to hear about theinjury, but it's the IT band
you've been dealing with.
I'm doing okay.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm doing okay, I'm bummed to hear about the injury.
But it's, it's the IT bandyou've been dealing with.
Yeah, yeah, my left IT band, um, and it's just gotten worse,
and so I'm talking to a PTtomorrow so hopefully we'll get
some answers.
But yeah, just walking aroundeven hurts and it just it's a
weirdest injury.
Um, I haven't really dealt withinjury in the last two years,
um, so it's definitely a bummerand, uh, psychologically dealing

(04:26):
with injuries is really hard asan athlete.
So I'm trying to figure thatout.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, it's, especially if it's your first,
second.
I mean honestly first, second,third, fifth time, it doesn't
matter.
Like every time, like I gothrough an injury, I have like
an existential crisis ofidentity.
Like what, what am I like?
Because, as athletes, like weassociate ourselves so much,
like we identify so closely withthis sport, whether it's for
you, skiing or running, whateveryou know it could be any, it

(04:54):
could be any person doinganything underwater, basket
weaving, but it's like, if it'ssomething that you're, you know,
you hold yourself so true toand love, and absurd, like I
guess I could say, like I'mobsessed.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Absolutely yeah.
When you lose it.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
it's like, it's like the, it's like the death of
something right, it's gotta beprobably really hard to deal
with.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, it's really jarring because, like my days
were entirely based around it Umtraining, like twice a day, um
90 to 120 minutes, like justobsessing over all the time.
And now, like if I see someonerunning I start crying.
So it's like it's really hardto adjust to it.
But I, yeah, just keep tryingevery day and every day like you

(05:36):
get closer to not being injuredand you get a little bit
stronger mentally.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So just working on that, yeah, I think the mental
toughness is like a huge thing,cause like when you, you will,
will, obviously you'll you'll beon the other side of it, and
when you are, it's two things,it's like one you'll have the
mental toughness and grit.
So if you ever have to gothrough it again, you could tell
yourself, like okay, like it's,it's good.
Yeah, I did before, I'm gonnaget through it.
And I think the second part too, um, is like I don't know it's.

(06:04):
It's not just the mentaltoughness component, but it's
like you, you kind of can getthrough anything.
I don't know it's, it's a goodvibe.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So yeah, yeah, being an athlete just makes you strong
mentally in so many ways and uh, like, just like some of the
ways are obviously gettingthrough tough races, getting
through training day in and dayout, and then also like this is
an equally important butdifferent way that you get
stronger is like dealing withwith not being able to do the

(06:32):
thing that you love.
Um, so it's a really uniquething, just like being an
athlete.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
So what do you?
Uh, like, now that you havesome downtime obviously you got
a lot of time to reflect like,what do you fill your time with?
Read books while catching up onanything on netflix?
Like what do you?
What are you doing these?

Speaker 2 (06:46):
days.
Oh man, um, I should be doingsome more watercolors, but, um,
I I watched so much youtube andI just started working at a
local gear shop, so I'm tryingto learn kind of bike mechanic
stuff and get more into likegear.
I'm very bad with like gear andI'm a schema person and I also

(07:10):
bike, but I never paid attentionthat closely to the how the
gear works.
But, um, since I'm, I'm tryingto like chip away at that every
day and learn um how, how bikeswork and how skis work, so
that's fun.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Super cool, fun.
Super cool.
Yeah, it's anytime you can pickup something new and learn,
like a new craft of some kind,like whether it be biking or
skiing, or like improvingsomething with skiing or
learning the gear.
And because, like I don't know,I feel like cycling, running,
is so simple, right, but likeyou have cycling and schema,
which are just so technical andthere's such a gear component to
it that, um, yeah, I feel likethe better you know your gear,

(07:45):
the almost the better of anathlete you'll be, which is
pretty that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Um, how, how's training been going for you?
And you like the spring andeverything, and um, I'm not sure
if you ski, but are you gettinginto running training?

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah.
So I, fortunately enough, likethe Springs, like Colorado
Springs where I live, has beenlike kind of on and off with
snow, so it's been like reallygood for year-round training.
So I've just been running allseason I have dabbled with
nordic skiing in the past, likewhen we have like solid snowpack
.
Um, I don't tour, do anythinglike that.
A lot of my good buddies do.
I think one of these days I'llprobably get into it.

(08:19):
The problem with touring is likethat leads to schemo and that
leads to another obsession andit's like yeah, and it's like,
oh man, like that's too much,like I, you know, I can't,
especially because, like we're,we're, I'm in the greater pikes
peak region, so, like wherethat's at, it's like a two-hour
drive to any of like if you wantto do any of the other resorts
or anything like that.
Like I've got pikes in mybackyard, but like the snowpack

(08:41):
is kind of iffy, if you will,depending on like what the
situation's like.
So yeah if we have a good snowyear, yeah, you could tour it,
but like sometimes not so muchso for me it's just been, um,
you know, just loving theweather and just getting into.
uh, I just literally this is mylast week of a speed block
finishing that up and, um, yeah,trying to figure out like okay,
like just I guess it's likewhat, four weeks to soon, a, so

(09:05):
just trying to start puttingtogether the final touches and
like the very specific, likereally technical, uh stuff was
like ski roads and like kind ofmixing that up.
Um, so, that way, like thefinal, yeah, the final touches
are on the, I guess, uh, on theproverbial Sunday for for that.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I, for I forget how close Sanofi is now.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'mdefinitely going to be there and
um it, the atmosphere is goingto be so cool, like it's going
to be amazing to have so manyathletes come out for it and um,
just excited to meet so manypeople.
I look up to um and watch themrace.
That's going to be awesome, umand oh yeah, one more thing on

(09:40):
the schema thing.
I know you've interviewed somany schema athletes and I'm
like I can't believe you haven'tbeen influenced yet.
But props to you for stickingto uh, sticking, staying focused
on the sports that you're inalready.
There's just too many sports toto like fully get into and it's
just, it would just be so outof control financially.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, no, you're so right.
I appreciate that.
You know, for me I kind of likewent into the season like it's
almost like a now or never thing.
It's like let's, let's see whatwe can do this year, next year,
and just put everything into itand you know, like I decided to
self coach myself this year andjust kind of like throw
everything at the wall and seewhat's stuck.
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Oh, I'm so excited to see a big blow up or it could
be awesome.
Oh my gosh, you've been makingmoves in silence and I'm excited
to see your season this year.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you, let's talk about you, let's.
I want to.
I want to learn about yourbackground.
So you're from Maine, correct?

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, I'm from Western Maine, um, which isn't
too far from where I live now.
Um, I live, uh, I live in thewhite mountains of New Hampshire
, um, which is such a beautifulplace, and the Northeast is just
awesome place to live and train.
Yeah, it's like we have somesome of the most rugged terrain

(10:54):
in the United States and likenot so much, not so much racing
up here because of permittingissues, but we've we've made
some steps in that in a gooddirection over the last few
years and there are some reallycool races that happen on some
of the national forest land and,yeah, it's, it's a I love it

(11:17):
out here.
The one thing I don't love asmuch as the West is the sun.
Like we, we don't, we don'thave as much sunshine as I would
like, but, uh, but it's okay,I'll, I'll take, I'll take the.
I like the humidity, all therocky terrain and um, just kind
of like the lushness of it.
It's like next level, likebiodiversity and like um

(11:39):
greenness everywhere.
It's like it's kind of like agnome land.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, it's like it gives me alps vibes almost like
and I think dan dana said thison the podcast too before dan
kurtz, where he's like I feellike you can train better in the
east coast or on the east coastfor, like certain types of
races, like maybe like racing ineurope and other places, just
because one there's a solidlevel of technicality, like you
get a lot of different biozones,there's a lot of steepness.
You might not have the 6,000feet of relief that the Alps do,

(12:09):
but you can still get prettysolid climbs, which is pretty
awesome.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
The mountain that I liveclosest to, mount Washington, is
4,400 feet of a straight climband there's a good mix of like
runnable, like 15% grade Um, andthen just absolute scrambling
Um, and then there's like oneflat section.

(12:34):
So, uh, there's a, there's asolid climb, you can do it.
It's like 4,400 feet and fourmiles, so it's it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
That's proper.
We're going to gonna.
We'll get into that, because Ido want to talk about race the
cog in a little bit, but first Iwant I want to like dial it
back to your, your origin story.
Like I, I kind of read somearticles on you, like from
aerovipa and stuff like that inthe lead up to this interview
and, uh, one of the things Ifound interesting is, like you,
you said you didn't really likerun competitively in high school
or college.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, that's true, and I'm still kind of surprised
at my growth in the sport overthe last few years.
I got into trail running andrunning when I was working in
Boston just out of college, likegot really obsessed with it and
started training, like startedtraining consistently probably

(13:25):
five years ago.
Before that I hadn't runcompetitively at all, I just
played some high school sportslike JV sports, but never felt
athletic or anything.
And then I was just like, oh,running is such a different vibe
than this high-stress job thatI was in in Boston and so I just

(13:48):
became obsessed with it thenand kind of dealt with injuries
for the first two years becauseI would just get too excited and
do like a 15 mile day in theWhite Mountains and then like
injure all my tendons and I wascompletely unprepared for that
after sitting for like eightyears without moving that much.
And I finally figured out howto like start running

(14:11):
sustainably and hadn't evengotten like really good
consistent training until abouttwo years ago.
And I I think like the.
The thing that's gotten me tothis point and I think I can get
a lot further is just believingthat, like believing in my

(14:32):
future self, where, like it'salmost delusional to the point
where I'm like I'm like I see myidols and I'm like I can get
there and there's absolutely noevidence to support that belief.
But I just have it for somereason and I'm like I'm going to
do the work every day to get meto that point because I know

(14:52):
that's in me and like, yeah,maybe I didn't, I didn't start
running until recently but, um,but that means I have like a big
runway and I know that my topend, like I haven't even come
close to it yet.
I think I'm like maybe 40% ofthe way there.
So like that's what I tellmyself.
I'm like I uh, because I keepimproving every time I race,

(15:16):
whether or not I've trained likespecifically for it.
So I'm like there's evidence,there's some evidence to say
that I'm still improving and Ijust have this belief in myself.
Um, I'll just sorry to go off ona tangent, but um, part of the
reason that being injuredstresses me out a little bit is

(15:37):
because I feel like I have alittle bit less time to develop
that base and I'm still rampingup quite a bit.
Um, so it just scares me alittle bit to think that I'm
losing time and there's anopportunity cost of not being
able to train during this time.
Um, but I I do have like a 10year goal, Like I don't know if

(15:58):
I'll fully max out my potentialfor another 10 years or so, so
that does, at the same time,provide some relief that I'm
like okay, this is just a fewmonths in a 10-year plan, so I
know I'll get there, but I hatethe opportunity cost of missing
training.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Opportunity.
You're starting to sound likeme.
You used to work in finance,didn't you?
That's probably why.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
All right, Sorry yeah .

Speaker 1 (16:22):
I pinned it.
All right, that makes sense.
E people okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I work in corporate finance nowand I hate it, but like it's
yeah totally, totally.
I totally get you on that.
When you said opportunity,because I was like that's an nba
word yeah, um, um sunk sunkcost fallacy and all that that's
right.
That's right.
You have so much time, though.

(16:43):
Like I, that's the thing Irunning as a patient's patient,
a patient person's game.
Like I, I've gone through myfair share of injuries.
I think everybody has and most,and if anyone's listening to
this that there's probablylisteners listening to this
probably going through the samething and like that's the only
thing I could tell people islike just you know, like you
have so much time, especiallycause you're young, like um,

(17:05):
listen, I know I want to give ashout out One of my listeners,
mark Tatum, like one of myfavorite people in Colorado
Springs.
The dude's like I don't want tooverstate his age.
He's in his sixties, let's putit that way.
Guy's a monster.
One of my favorite people inthe sport.
Awesome dude.
Um, anyway, long story short.
He got started later in lifeLike he was a mountain biker
first and then got into trailrunning and like he just whips
people's ass on the incline nowand he's a great runner, so

(17:28):
everybody everybody's got adifferent story.
You know and and some of it, um,you know, some people come from
track and field and like that'stheir game and you know what.
Some people hit their ceiling,if you will, and other people
start later in life, like Istarted a little bit later and
I'm happy, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, yeah, and your body can still adapt to the
training.
Like, even even if you didn'tstart when you were five years
old or something like you'reeven as an adult, your body can
still create those changes.
It just might take a little bitlonger than if you'd started
when you were younger.
That's my theory.
But yeah, over the course of 10, 15 years, I think your body

(18:07):
will make those like deepadaptations, um, at the like
cellular level, that will allowyou to be competitive with the
people who started when theywere younger.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, yeah.
One thing too, I will add tothat you will be surprised, like
when you do come back, how fastlike muscle memory really is.
Like I've had plenty of timeswhere I'll take like a month off
and like it actually does comeback rather quick.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
So that's awesome yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Great to hear.
Stay positive, Stay positive Um.
I want to talk a little bitmore going back in time about,
like growing up in Maine andlike this, this beautiful area
that you live in, and like thewhite mountains.
Like were you from a young age,like out playing in the
mountains, getting to explore,and especially cause you're
skiing background too, like wereyou skiing at a young age as
well uh.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
So no, I didn't start skiing until a few years ago.
Um, I went a couple times when Iwas in high school I think, but
uh, definitely not a good skierstill not a great skier, still
working on that but I like theuphill part of it.
Um, I did grow up just beingoutside a lot and I loved being
outside.
Um, like my brother and I justwould run around in the woods as

(19:08):
kids and uh, just like thebiggest draw to me of this sport
well, I guess there's equaldraws like I love being in the
woods and outside and like closeto nature, um, and then the
other thing is I like being inan aerobic state for like an
hour plus.
But uh, definitely had thatlike love of nature in me from

(19:30):
an early age, just because ofwhere I grew up in a rural area,
um, and surrounded by, like Iwasn't in the in the mountains
directly, but um, definitelylike hills and my parents would
take us to to hike ever since Iwas a kid.
So, um, yeah, it definitelylike Maine is such a special
place and um, yeah, it's veryoutdoorsy state and feel lucky

(19:54):
to have grown up there.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
How do you deal with the winter Cause?
Like I've spent like winters upthere and I'm like, dude, you
don't see, you don't see the sunfor a really long time like
it's.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
That's brutal oh, it is brutal.
Honestly, it doesn't get easier, um, like, especially if you're
working, um, sometimes youdon't see the sun for a really
long time.
Uh, the the sun rises at likeseven or something and the sun
sets at four, I don't know.
It's.
It's really short days, um, andit's really cold, like this

(20:25):
past winter.
Um, I just remember training,and just for a couple of months
just training in the darkness,um, just making sure the
headlamp was charged all thetime, and uh, it's also like it
feels to me like the cold islike a deeper cold here than out
West, like it's different yeah,cold here than out West.

(20:49):
Like, yeah, I went to race, uhin um, uh at solitude for the
national champs, for for schemaUm, and everyone was saying how
cold it was and I was like it'snot the same, like I felt like
it was kind of balmy and um,it's like I would hear the the
wind is just like it's so cold,it's like deeply cold, and I'm
like I didn't realize that untilI went out there.
But yeah, it's tough, but youjust buy a lot of puffy layers.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
It's like a special type of grit too.
I feel like I'll agree withthis.
I grew up some of my formativeyears I was in Pennsylvania,
like we would travel around abunch, and like I do feel like
the cold on the east coast isdifferent than the cold, uh,
like in colorado.
I don't know what that is,maybe it's a drier cold like,
not a humid cold, I don't knowlike, and I, like I said before,

(21:37):
like we have the sun here, solike, even if we yeah like last
weekend we got age of snow.
The sun comes out and it likemelts.
It's amazing Like.
I can sit outside with thecutoffs and like 40 degrees and
I'm totally fine yeah.
You can't do that in Maine.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
No no, and like part of of how I dealt with it while
training outside so much thiswinter, was like I have a full
body like puffy suit and I Iwould wear that like starting,
even starting some runs, um, anddefinitely start and definitely
skiing in it.
Um, and I was like I'm notstarting cold, Like I will get

(22:12):
sweaty and it's fine, Like Iwant to be in just a full body,
puffy.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
I don't blame you.
Let's talk about solitude andgoing for a uphill schema race
Cause, like you raised some somereally solid ladies, like Laura
Hamilton Kelly Wolf is ateammate of mine like quite a
few really solid women.
Like what was that race like?
And and I do want to dive into,like your schema background as
well, yeah, um, that experiencewas so fun.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Like it was one of the most fun like trips of my.
It probably was the best tripof my whole life.
Like I hadn't really known Larathat much I don't know if we
met in person but we became likereally good friends over there
and just had some closer friendsand I just got to know so many

(23:08):
of the people in the schemaworld and like all just such
great people and they were sowelcoming to me, even though I
had I wasn't sure like what thevibe was going to be like, and
they they just like invited meover for dinners and, um, yeah,
like like Gwen Rudy, she'samazing.
Um, and I got to like talk withDavid Sinclair quite a bit and
it was like, um, just likemeeting these people who are

(23:29):
like I've always been fans oftoo.
It was like it was like nowwe're friends and they're super
cool.
Um, so the the best part ofthat race was just like becoming
friends with all these peopleand um just having fun
experiences with them.
I tried to.
So it was my first time racinga sprint race, um, and it didn't

(23:50):
go so well.
I was kind of frustrated Um,part of schema that I don't like
and I know that it's it's animportant part of it is like the
technical side, and I I'm notvery gifted at that and I I
don't train as nearly as much asthe people who are um, who are
very good at schema, do.

(24:10):
Um, you just need to practicelike all the technical
transitions and um getting yourfoot in the right place, to like
lock into your bindings and outand like getting the whole
process down, and it justrequires so much dedicated like
patient training with it, um,and then also doing it in a

(24:31):
situation where you're likereally maxed out physically.
That's like an entirelydifferent experience.
So it's, it's really.
It's a really cool sportbecause it's not just pure like
fitness grind.
That's gonna get you to do wellin it.
It's like there's so manycomponents.
You have to be like reallymentally quick and also have
really good control of your bodywhen you're maxed out like, or

(24:56):
like physically maxed out, um,and that's really hard to do and
I learned that there.
Um, yeah, the the vertical racewas definitely the best Cause
for me.
Like I'm not so good at thetechnical skills, so that one I
was just like all right, I justhave to like go as hard as I can
for uh, 30 minutes and, yeah,it went.

(25:18):
It went really well.
I was, I was really happy withit.
Um, I I've never been so likedead after a race, like I
collapsed cause I could not evenstand up.
I like collapsed across thefinish line.
It was so dramatic Cause Iwasn't even like in the top
group, but, um, I like washyperventilating for at least

(25:38):
three minutes straight after andI like couldn't see anything
and I was just like, oh my God,this is so dramatic.
But I like I really could notget up or breathe at all.
And that might have been analtitude thing, because it ended
at 10,000 feet.
So I haven't really donealtitude stuff.
So it was really hard, thoughit was crazy.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
That's amazing.
I love it.
That's such a All right Thankyou for painting the picture.
I have so many questions offthis because, yeah, you are,
you're.
I don't want to call you likesea level person, but like
you're a little bit of like whatdo you live in?
A couple thousand feet, twothousand feet, somewhere in that
range, or we're like 700, 700,oh, wow, yeah, okay, so I guess
you're like kind of a sea levelperson and like that's pretty

(26:21):
impressive to go up to 10k andlike perform.
What do you, what do you think?
Like, do you, did you kind ofget bit by the bug?
Do you think you want to domore of these races in the
future?
Like, what are your, what areyour thoughts?

Speaker 2 (26:32):
yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Um, I need to do more workbefore I can be good at the
individual and sprint.
Um, I love the individual race,but, uh, I got a little.
I actually bailed on that onebecause I got really spooked out
.
It was like a powder day, itwas like dumping snow on us and

(26:52):
I was in these boots andbindings that don't release at
all.
So if you fall and you starttomahawking, you're probably
going to break your leg.
If something breaks, it'sprobably going to be your leg or
the ski.
And so I was like really spookedout and I was like I just I
can't do this right now, so Ijust bailed on that one, but

(27:13):
yeah, I definitely want to domore of it.
I think it's a sick sport andit's um, I I try to do a lot of
work in the Northeast here tomake it more accessible to
people.
We I work with this groupcalled uphill new England and we
were trying to like have demogear that people can use, to
like try out uphilling on alight setup.

(27:36):
Uphilling is is super, superpopular in the Northeast.
Most people don't have superlight gear, but it's like it's
exploded as a way for people toget act like, get active in the
winter.
Um, so it's really.
It's really awesome doingresort labs or even doing some
easier backcountry stuff here,because you see so many people

(27:58):
out and it's like, uh, it's sucha great community that's super
cool.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
The thing that too is like I don't know, like where I
live we have a little bit lessaccess to like ski areas, but I
feel like where you guys are youhave like dime a dozen ski
areas everywhere that's so true,is it?
is it like, are this like, forinstance, like alta and a lot of
like, um, I was gonna say alta,snowbird, like they all close
uphill access once the mainseason rolls in?

(28:24):
Like are what are the resortslike where you are?
Are they like open to uphillaccess in the mornings, or how
does that work?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
it varies by resort.
Um, With Uphill New Englandwe're trying to create a better
relationship between uphillersand resorts because some resorts
have had bad experiences withpeople not obeying the rules and
then dangerous situationshappen.
But we're trying to encourageresponsible behavior and also

(28:51):
have resorts expand theirpolicies more so.
Some resorts are like beforethe resort opens we allow
uphilling.
Others are only duringoperating hours.
Others are only after operatinghours.
So it really varies a lot andit's a little bit confusing it's
kind of all over the placegotcha.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, yeah, um, I was gonna ask.
So is there any races in thenortheast for a ski mill?
Oh there, are yeah okay, oh,let's hear what do you guys got.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, um, all right, we have.
We have a bunch of races thathave been going on for many
years now.
Um, my friend, jesse wall, putson a series every winter.
Uh, that's it's.
It's awesome like the communitythat races up here is so fun.
Like there's there's a bunch ofpeople who dresses in like cow

(29:37):
onesies and they're called theski moose, so that's awesome.
And uh, yeah, it's just, it'slike super fun.
It's.
It's probably a small group ofmaybe 30 of us that race.
Um, but we're always likestoked to see each other and get
out there together.
It's like our individual racesare pretty legit.
Like it's usually like fourlaps up and down different

(30:00):
terrain and between four andfive thousand vertical feet, and
like we go down some reallytough terrain that's very
off-piste at the resort, likesome gnarly moguls and there's
even some cliffs sometimes andit's always like icy, of course,
like icy moguls, because that'swhat we have here.

(30:21):
It's like never.
It's never like a soft skiable,you're just like sliding down
on your edges.
So it's a bit gnarly, butthat's why we love it.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Super cool, super, super cool.
Do you guys have like verticalraces and stuff like that too?
Like I feel like there's no,not yet it's gone.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, hopefully fair enough.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
You know, I was just so impressed with the northeast
I was talking to my buddy aboutthis the other day because now,
like you've got the cirqueseries coming in, and this is
for mountain running at least,but like you've got the white
mountain endurance cup, whichwe'll talk about, there's just
so many sub ultra races in thenortheast, like mount washington
, like you gotta like the wholepick, whereas, like I feel, like
in the west, like we've gotthem in summer, like obviously

(31:04):
there's broken arrow there's,but like in colorado, like other
than like kendall mountain anda feeling like pike's peak, like
there's not that many tell yourride but telluride's kind of an
ultra too, there's not thatmany like solid sub ultra races,
whereas, like I, could go tothe northeast and have a whole
season and it's pretty dope,like that you can get your fill
from literally from june evenmay, you know, with breakneck,

(31:25):
all the way to, uh, september,which is kind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
I just think that it's kind of wild to think about
, like I don't think it's kindof slept on because nobody
thinks about the Northeast,which is kind of totally yeah,
and I think it's especially inrecent years that's really
exploded more Um, and it seemslike with Arab IPA coming in
more to to races here and buyingwhite mountains endurance, I
think the people are more awareof the scene out here nationally

(31:53):
.
Um, and yeah, just like sickraces, like kind of sky runner
style, um, really fun.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
So I'm and I'm so excited that circ is going to be
out this year too yeah, it'scrazy, let's talk about that,
because that's actually how youcame onto my radar was watching
the white mountain endurance cupvideos.
I was like gotta have this girlon the podcast.
Like you had this like little.
Like you and I was at haileyheinrich like have this little
like back and forth at a bunchof some of these races I was
like this is this is a coollittle little thing we have here

(32:22):
.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
We gotta talk you yeah, you have to have hailey on
the pod.
She's, um, she's like thestrongest and I think she's the
strongest like female athlete inthe northeast.
Um, she's incredibly fast andreally good both up and down,
like technical terrain, likejust she.
And she's been at it for yearstoo and like she just keeps

(32:45):
improving every year.
Um, so, yeah, you shoulddefinitely talk to her.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
She's amazing, it's super cool, lots of really cool,
like lots of very strongathletes in the northeast.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
I was impressed yeah, yeah, yeah, like, and there are
, so there are so many likestrong female athletes, um, and
like we all kind of havedifferent strengths, um, so,
yeah, I guess I can't say likeone person is the best, because,
like there's so many differenttypes of races and, um, yeah,
not even getting into roadracing, but just trail stuff

(33:15):
like, uh, yeah, there there'slike so many really strong
female athletes, um, so it's,that was really fun like
competing with them last summer.
Um, like, it's just it's reallyfun to to actually have like a
good group of women to run withand support each other and be

(33:38):
competitive with each other in afun way.
That was my biggest takeaway oflast year is just how
empowering that is.
How, how empowering that is and, um, like, in what scenario in
life do you have to like do thisincredibly difficult thing with

(33:59):
someone else and like besimultaneously cheering them on
and like trying to becompetitive with them?
It's like it's such a likebonding experience and like just
the privilege of like gettingto push yourself that hard,
especially with other women.
It's so cool and unique tosport, especially endurance
sports, where you're just outthere for hours.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, that's the best sport on earth, for sure, for
sure.
Yes, I got to pivot a littlebit because I want to ask you
about how the series went foryou and just talk about some of
the races in the series.
But first I do have a question.
This is out of pure curiosity,because it seems like there's a
lot of roadies in the NortheastLike do you see them starting to
come over to the trails now?
Is that like more of a commonthing or is it like still two

(34:41):
very separate cliques?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, they're pretty separate.
I think the more trail athletesalso road race athletes also
road race, um, but yeah, there's, there's a few people who do
both, but uh, way more roadpeople and they don't tend to do
trail races.
Um, hopefully, at least on thefemale side, um, there there's a

(35:04):
few more men, that kind ofcrossover, I think.
Um, but yeah, it's, I do both,like I equally love road racing,
racing, um, because sometimes Ijust don't want to think about
my footing and be stressed outabout where I'm gonna put my
foot, like sometimes I just wantto like zone out and like go as
hard as I can, um, so yeah,yeah, we'll work on that, though

(35:27):
it's a key.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
It's like, I mean, obviously speed is such a key
for trail running, like to to begood at uh, you know, just to
be good at uphill running, orjust have an enormous engine
like yeah being able to run fastplays such a good role into
that.
All right, let's talk whitemountain endurance cup.
Can you, for the audience thatmight not be aware of it I think
they should be, because I likeit's, it's super rad.

(35:49):
Like, can you talk about someof the races uh, they're on
there some of the races that youdid, um, and maybe just talk
about, like, the level oftechnicality, because some of
these courses are pretty gnarly.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, yeah, most of them are pretty gnarly.
So Chikorowa mountain race isthe first one and that's in
early June Usually.
Um, that's my favorite racepersonally and it's been around
for quite a few years.
Uh, it's about 15, 14 to 15miles with around 4 000 feet of

(36:20):
vert, maybe a little bit more.
Um, it's such a good mix ofrunnable, really technical um,
descending and climbing likeslabs, like there's a mix of
everything.
Truly it's.
It's the best trail race ever.
Um, if, if, if anyone was tocome out for any of the white
mountain endurance races, thatwould be the one I would

(36:41):
recommend.
Um, and just like absolutelyinsane views.
Uh, scrambling slabs, like justthe best of the Northeast
trails.
Um, slabs like just the best ofthe Northeast trails.
Um, yeah it's.
You go up and down the mountain, um, basically twice.
Well, the first time is likenot quite to the summit, but
Chikorowa has so many trails upit, so you just kind of do a

(37:04):
weird route around and yeah it's, it's really fun.
Um, yeah, I'll talk about theother ones too.
So Baldface is great.
It's a little bit, in myopinion, it's a little bit long
and there's a Baldface circleloop which is about nine miles

(37:26):
and it does that, but then itadds on another summit basically
.
Uh, it adds on like another umsummit basically, and it's.
I really like the classic loopand I kind of wish the trail,
the, the race was on the classicloop um that's the 15k, I think
, or is there a 14?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
there's like a lesser distance.
That's on the classic.
I've studied that becausethat's yeah, it's on my list
yeah, yeah, you should doshorter one.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
I mean, if you want to do the longer one, that's
fine too, but the iconic loop islike that 15K that they have.
That's one of my favoriterunning loops ever.
It's just insanely beautifuland fun.
So, yeah, that was a littlecrazy.
And then, yeah, the JiggerJohnson one is also a really fun

(38:15):
course.
Um, I didn't finish that onecause I just felt horrible, um,
but that's, that's a super funone.
I'll basically all of theseraces go up and down a mountain
twice, whether it's the samemountain or a different mountain
.
Um, so there's like a reallybig component of having really

(38:37):
like strong fatigue resistanceand being able to turn back
around and go back uphill afteryou've just absolutely smashed
your legs with like a 2000 footdescent down technical terrain.
So that's uh, uh.
That's really reallychallenging and something you
need to like train for or elseyou're gonna get absolutely
demolished on the second climbfair enough, fair enough now.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
The what is it race.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
The cog is not a part of that, correct, it's just a
separate aeroviper race thatthey have yeah, it's just a
separate race, um, but yeah,that's, that's something, a
shorter one where you're justlike going all out for like an
hour it's like a proper vk,isn't it?

Speaker 1 (39:18):
4400 feet or something like that in four
miles yeah, something like thatyeah, that's.
That race is on my radar, likethat's.
If that wasn't on the day ofkillington, I'd probably could
be doing that one, but yeah umwould you do the up down or just
the vertical one?
just the vertical?
Yeah, I don't want to do the updown the.
I hate this ending like I'm nota good, like I shouldn't oh my
god same I'm not as like stokedon descending, I should say um

(39:43):
does it like yeah, why do youfeel that way?

Speaker 2 (39:46):
because I also feel that way.
I'm like I don't love this.
I feel anxious the whole timeyeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I just like I feel like if anybody's catching me,
they're catching me on thedescent as opposed to like going
up, like I don't know.
I feel like I can race bettergoing up racing yeah, I
shouldn't say this on thepodcast, because this gives away
a lot but like it's, uh, likeit's.
I just I don't know.
Descending is this like yeah,as it just doesn't get me as
excited, whereas I this isactually something I've been
practicing in the off season islike getting to the top of a

(40:13):
peak, like I do.
One of my workouts I do is onthe manitou incline, which, if
you ever make it to the springs,10 out of 10 recommend.
Um it's on my list I usually goto the bailout and, um, I do
like repeats on the bailout butjust practice like all out to
the top at threshold and thenthrow like, instead of stopping,
like turning around and likethrowing myself off the top
because, like a lot of, yeah,that's like, that's the thing,

(40:34):
like with a lot of the circseries races, like there's no,
there's no stopping, likethere's no slowing down yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
So that's seriously a thing like you need to train
yourself to like turn it aroundand either like go from
descending to climbing again orclimbing to descending, and it's
it's really hard to like makethat transition, but if you can
get efficient at it, I thinkthat's huge yeah, oh, for sure,
for sure.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
The other thing is like I like ski roads, like I
can race all day on ski roads.
It's like technical trails,like, for instance, like the big
blocky, like was a jacob'sladder in area, sections of like
um, like the mount washingtoncog race.
I was like yeah yeah, I'drather just run over it to the
top and then, instead of havingto turn around and go back down,
where it's like I actually haveto watch my footing and like,
pay attention, yeah, I hatetechnical descending.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
It's just like not, I don't know, you gotta, you
gotta love it, you know Icompletely agree and, uh, I feel
like we're in a minoritybecause everyone's like I love
trail running for the descending, because it's like such a flow
state and like my flow state islike me tripping and falling on
my face and like just being liketalking to myself, being like
you're, you're okay, you'regonna make it, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Just like feeling, like every step I'm like
breaking, yeah, breaking myankle, breaking ankle and you're
looking over your shoulder,you're trying not to get rolled
up and it's like oh man yeahyeah, it's, uh it's, it's
stressful I'd find it to be themost stressful position to be in
umtotally yeah now vertical racing
is more fun.
That's why I was still.
I saw you went and did uhbroken arrow last year and went
to the vk, which is sweet.
That's a.

(41:59):
I mean 2024 vk was the mostcompetitive one we've had there
and obviously this one willprobably top it, but like that's
, that's probably by far themost competitive race you've
been in as far as, like yourresults go like yeah was that an
eye-opener for you?
Like what did you think?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
like that's the best of the best that are in that
race yeah, yeah, that race wentso bad for me, but, um, that's
okay.
Like, we all have bad races, um, I have probably like 50 of my
races are not where I want themto be, um, in terms of how I
feel, but it was, it was awesomelike, like, just being at
Broken Arrow, um was such a coolexperience.

(42:35):
It was a little overstimulatingbecause there's just like so
many people there and it's justcrazy down in the village area,
um, but but that was fun too andit was.
It was cool to watch the otherraces too.
Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's,it's always great to compete in
like a really competitive field,um, and I'm I'm excited to try

(42:59):
to go back to that race at somepoint.
Um, and someday I want to havelike a legit altitude camp where
I try to acclimatize a littlebit, cause I think that was part
of it.
Um, I I just I think I strugglewith altitude and I was
struggling with some like lastyear, I felt like half the time
I tried to do a vertical race,like I don't know, it just felt

(43:23):
so awful going uphill.
I don't know if you ever feellike that, um, but it's just
like, yeah, yeah, sometimes youfeel like you can push and then
other times you're like come onlegs, like do something, and
there's like nothing there andand you just feel awful.
So I don't know it.
It's a weird.
It's a weird sport in that,like when you do like uphill

(43:46):
running, it's like you, you getexposed pretty quickly as to
like how your body's feeling ohyeah, like if you're not having
a good day, you, you feel itright away and it's like yeah
this is where I'm at, and I'mjust gonna have to sit in this
and just hope it turns aroundyeah, exactly

Speaker 1 (44:01):
yeah, no, it's funny you say that like about broken
arrow.
With it being, I mean obviouslyaltitudes yeah, it's a huge
component of it and it's it's a.
That's probably why you feltterrible.
But like, also on top of that,like there's something to be
said about, like the electricvibes and like it being just
like there's so many people atthat race.
So it's like the first timeyou're out on like something

(44:23):
like that.
That's like more of like aninternational scene.
It's like whoa dude, like thisis, this is huge, this is crazy
yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
It was crazy.
I was like seeing all thepeople that I look up to just
everywhere.
It was just wow, this was a lotsuper cool, super.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, it was super fun well, yeah oh sorry, what
were you gonna say?

Speaker 2 (44:43):
oh, I just I was gonna say like I have a group of
friends or a few friends outthere that I stayed with and, um
, that, like that's always thebest part of like going out and
doing these things.
Like, uh, that, yeah, some ofmy friends like live in like
near tahoe or san francisco andit's just like the best people
out there, like they're soawesome that's awesome, yeah,

(45:06):
and just like be able to do itwith friends and like not going
out there alone, like just addso much more to it, right.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
like Like when you have people.
you know, when you hit aroundyour people, like it makes you
feel I don't know.
I feel like it makes me feelmore comfortable and it's just
like you can kind of relax andget into that in the race week
and stuff like that.
Let me ask you this Cause likeobviously I know we talked about
injury and stuff like that, butwe got to talk about the future
and future plans, like what,what races have you excited that
you want to go do Like what?

(45:32):
What are some things that arelike on your radar?

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh man, yeah, I should have thought about this
one more.
Um, I've been likedisassociating from plans
because I'm injured, but, uh, II was really excited to do the
Cirque series races probablyCanon Um, but I.
Circ series races probablycanon um, but I don't.

(45:56):
It's not looking like evenkillington is going to be
achievable at this time.
Um, so that's bummer, but I'll.
I'll have to go out and racesome of the, the ones out west
at some point and I'm surethey'll be back east, hopefully,
uh, next year.
So I'll definitely do that.
Yeah, I will lobby for that.
Um, uh, did you do I?

(46:16):
I signed up for the rut, so Iwas gonna ask you about that
yeah, so I'm really hoping I cando that, like that's kind of my
a race for the year, um, and Iwould just oh my gosh it looks
incredible.
28k or vk uh, the 50k 50k okayoh yeah, trying to jump up a
little bit okay all right, what?

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I'm just curious, just out of pure curiosity what
excited you more about the 50kversus the 28k?
Just because that's that's a,that's a, that's a race like
that's a really hard yeah, yeah,I might like reconsider that,
but, um, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I just I feel like, um, I feel like I can be really
good at those longer races, um,like it's, it's a good question,
I think.
I think I wanted like a reallylong, difficult adventure out
there, um, and I I do want toget better at the longer

(47:12):
distances.
So I'm like I just need to keeptrying to do them, um, and put
in the training to do them, orelse I'm never going to get
there.
So I just like I'm I'm tryingto start here.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Um, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
And I also want to do more road marathons.
So, just like around around,the marathon of 50 K distance is
, I think, the area where I wantto focus on.
Um, I'm not really interestedin going along from that because
my body would not tolerate that, and it's.
It's just like.
I feel like the chance of beinginjured out of a race is pretty

(47:48):
high and, yeah, it's just notmy vibe.
I like running faster too.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, yeah, that's something to be said about it.
About it, yeah, I think the rutfits your style well too.
I mean, not just like from theraces that you already do, but
just like your training grounds,I mean like the best advice
I've ever gotten from peoplethat have run the rudder.
Like you know, just expectincredibly steep stuff and like
it's a slow, grindy race anyway,like yeah it which is it?
Mimics the trails of thenortheast, a lot like totally.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
I'm like this is, this is uh.
Where I live is the perfectplace to train for the rut,
besides the altitude.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
But you know can't, can't have it all yeah, but all
I mean you could, you could comeout a couple days before, or if
you just go out the day before.
I've heard people like say, oh,if you go out the day before,
and like don't take as much timeand, like you're, it should
work better.
I don't know.
I'm kind of curious, I know forthe opposite, because like I'm
coming from six or seventhousand feet going down to sea

(48:44):
level to race a bunch of racesthis year and I'm like yeah I
worry about power generation,like how am I going to be able
to generate the power that someof these guys can generate that
live, you know, super low.
So that's why I'm coming outlike a few weeks before to like
work on some specific stuff likeworkouts, to see if I can like
get just a little bit more of anadaptation.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, because that, yeah, that totally makes sense.
Yeah, and then probably justdoing like strides and stuff,
like I'm sure you're doing allthat stuff, but yeah, like I
think I think it'll, it'll begood.
I think you largely have anadvantage.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
So I hope so.
I don't know, like I don't comedown to like race on the east
coast too often, so I'm like, oh, this should be kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Um have you done a trail race out here before?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
not in the northeast, uh, I've been like breakneck's
been on my radar for a long time.
I've like I have family in thatarea and I've like ran around
there a bunch and just neverpulled the trigger on and going
to the race just because it'searly season.
I've, like North Carolina, Idid quest for the crest a few
years ago and that was a propermountain race.
Like that was proper hard, um,and the black mountains of North
Carolina me I was like well, itshould be similar.

(49:50):
Um, yeah, I'm like very likefascinated with like this
northeast vermont, new hampshire, upstate, new york, adirondack
area.
Um, like kyle richardson, um,like he did some bike packing
there last year and like just Ijust got a bunch of pointers
from him on like some of theareas to check out.
I was just like man, like thosemountains seem really like

(50:11):
there's just like there's a lotmore there, I think.
Um, whereas like I feel likeI've explored so much in the
colorado mountains and likemaybe the wasatch and areas like
that, that I'm like not boredon it, but I'm like the
northeast has more appeal to meI don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, it's interesting because we have, so
it's like such a smaller mass ofland, that's mountains here, um
, but we have so many trails onthem, just because people have
been making trails on thesemountains forever and like it's.
It's a fairly small likemountain range, like the white
mountains and the greenmountains and, um, the
adirondacks.

(50:45):
They're all like pretty small,uh, compared to the mountains at
west, but like, like I said,there's so many miles of trails
on them and then at west, likeyou don't have as many trails I
mean, you have like you can gooff trail more, I think but uh,
but yeah, there there is that.

(51:06):
So it does feel a lot biggerthan it is here super cool.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, can you talk about your time as you were a
hut caretaker, weren't you?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Can you talk about that?

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Because that is so cool.
We have bar camp here, which iskind of like a hut, but not
really a hut, because it's notvery remote.
But anyway, tell me, I'mcurious to hear about your
experience.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Is that the one that Zach Miller worked at?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, okay, okay.
I was like, oh, that soundsfamiliar, okay, um, cool, yeah,
so I I was a hut caretaker lastwinter at a hut in the Northern
end of the presidential range Um, like super remote was alone
for like five days at a time.

(51:47):
Uh, the schedule was seven dayson, seven days off for about
five months and, yeah, it was areally cool experience Like
that's where I got into all thepuffy layers because I was so
cold all the time and I wastrying not to like burn all the
fuel because I didn't want thelike to be the person to like

(52:08):
run out of fuel and the othercaretaker would be like what the
heck happened.
The person to like run out offuel and the other caretaker
would be like what the heckhappened.
Like now we're gonna freeze, um, but so the the hut is like
insanely cool, like we have suchan amazing hot system that's
similar to like the europeanvibe, um, and you know, I'm sure
you've heard of the huttraverse, uh, which is a route

(52:30):
about 44 miles, uh, I think like13 000 feet.
No, it might be more than that,um, but it's kind of like a lot
of people do it hiking, but youcan run it like I think katie
scheid has a fkt on the femaleside, um, but that's that like
links up all the White Mountainshuts.

(52:52):
I didn't work for an AMC hut.
It's like really niche stuffhere but similar organization
that managed the one that Iworked at.
But really, yeah, the hutsystem here is really cool and
unique to the Northeast, I think, and a lot of history behind
that.

(53:12):
Um, it felt incredible to towork there and like be so
connected to the mountains andlike be up there in the crazy
weather.
Um, yeah, just like it was sucha cool experience and I might I
might do it again, but uh,probably not at that hut.
Like I'd probably work at a hutthat that's like more in the

(53:35):
base of Tuckerman ravine and uh,if, if, if, I can ever again
but like deal with more skierscoming through and just be a
little bit more at the center ofof things, because where I was
was just super remote and like,yeah, not, not too many skiers
or people coming through verymuch at all.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Oh, wow, that's so cool.
Did you like the remoteness atall or like no?
Is it like too remote?

Speaker 2 (54:02):
It was a little bit too much, but I did expect it.
So it was a cool experience.
Like I didn't always love it Iwas.
I was bored a lot, but I did alot of writing, a lot of reading
.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
I was reading um, so you probably don't have cell
phone reception out there, rightso we actually did, so I
watched like a bunch of YouTubetoo, which is bad.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Um, yeah, it was crazy.
Like we um, sorry, um we hadlike a solar panel on the roof
that, uh, that powered the likebattery so I was able to charge
like basic electronics.
But for a couple months duringthe winter, like the sun doesn't

(54:42):
quite hit the solar panel, soyou have to like scrape it off
with a roof scraper and half thetime like it would just freeze
over with ice and so I didn'thave power or like a phone or
anything for like seven days atone point.
So I was, I was like totally inthe dark, like just didn't have
contact with outside world atall, so I was a little crazy

(55:05):
that's wild.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
It's so cool to me too because, like I know, like
I'm, like I've heard the storiesof, like katie scheid was she
used to work at the huts.
Um, I think jeff colt did aswell.
I know he's from up there yeahhillary gerardi.
Hillary gerardi.
Yeah, so so many big names inthe sport have like kind of come
through that area or like wereraised and grew up in that area
and worked the huts, which iscool yeah, they like had the

(55:27):
full hut experience where theyworked for the amc hut, like
summer hut crew um, which wasvery different than what I did.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Like they they're part of this like intense summer
experience where and I thinkthey came back for a couple
seasons um, but they're likehauling like loads of food and
equipment and stuff up forguests and then cooking for
guests and like doing likeentertaining people basically,
uh, so it's like a veryexhausting and like intense

(55:54):
experience, um, and they likefor fun, they would like run
between the huts and like try todo it in a certain amount of
time.
So I think it was greattraining for them to become
mountain athletes that's supercool.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
I know there's some old on videos out there.
I think of katie's hot traverse.
I gotta go look for them yeahthese days.
Yeah, I was listening to apodcast recently and I think
maybe it was finn was talkingabout it.
He's another one that's from upthere.
Yeah, and there's a lot ofpeople from the northeast that
are like in our, in our littlelike niche sport, which is crazy
totally, and yeah, I heard that.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
I heard them talking about it in that podcast too.
Like it's such a good video,you should watch it for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Yeah, I gotta find it , I gotta ask you.
So in the beginning of theepisode you talked about kind of
like a 10 year plan that youhad for the sport.
I'm so curious, like what'spart of that 10 year plan, like
what are some of your goals thatyou want to accomplish in the
sport?

Speaker 2 (56:44):
So both road running and trail running, just like
running in general, 10 year planI specifically I think it's
hard to set time goals andperformance goals for trail
running, but for roads I want toget my marathon under, ideally
under two, 40, um, which Idefinitely think is achievable

(57:06):
Um, and then like probablycloser to 230 is like the goal.
And then for trails I want tojust like, mostly I just want to
be consistent and train as muchas I possibly can, like for
that 10 year period and just seewhere I get.

(57:27):
And I think I can get, like Ithink I can go a lot further
than where I'm at now.
I just want to be competitiveat the top of the sport and,
like I said, I know I'm notthere yet and there's no
evidence to suggest that I willbe, but I just know that like,

(57:49):
uh, you're rewarded withconsistency and so if I just
keep putting in those 90 to 120minutes um or more, if I can,
every single day, with one restday per week, um, that I'll,
I'll get where, like, I'll maxout my potential and that's
really like what I want to do.
I want to get to the top of mypotential.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
I love to hear it now and you definitely will, and
like that's the thing, like oneof the things you said earlier
too, was regarding like you know, I believe in this and I
believe you know almost like, soI'm, I'm very similar, I'm the
point of like I'm almost likethat psycho of like I believe in
myself to the point of delusion.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Like I, yeah, exactly .

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Maybe my parents like believed in me too much as a
kid, but like I just like howthis is like this, like weird
delusional ability to likecompletely believe myself until
I don't anymore.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
I don't know but like no, that's what you need.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I think, if you do that, yes, I think you can do
incredible Totally.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I think so many people think that because
they're not, there's no sign ofsuccess at this moment, or like
they're not already there, theydon't think it's possible.
But like if you just saw, likeif you put in the work every day
, you could be in a completelydifferent place in 10 years.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Yeah, but you're also having success.
You're winning and getting onthe podiums of a lot of these
races that you're doing now.
So, and a lot of these are verycompetitive races, especially
like white mountains, endurancecup Like you're, you're right,
you're right there, like youhave a couple of years to figure
it out and like you'll, you'llhave it figured out.
I'm curious like what shoes areyou running?
And I know you're on theirViper racing team but like what

(59:30):
kind of shoes are you rockingthese days?
Like, what are you into?

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Um, oh man, I I switched it up so much.
Uh, I would.
I've been a fan of VJs for areally long time, just because
the grip is truly amazing.
It, and I think it's thesometimes it's the best shoe for
the Northeast, where our rocksare like slippery and mossy and
it's just like you don't want toslip out, like you don't want

(59:55):
to slip down an entire slab.
Um, so I like the VJ maxoriginal, um, the VJ ultra and,
uh, I've recently started intapos and I like them top of
pursuit.
I think, um, I'm not a hugeshoe person Like I, I don't know
what's out there as much as Ishould and I definitely don't

(01:00:18):
try like the latest models oranything.
So, um, don't like, don't lookto me for advice.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
No, I think you're onto something there with VJ.
Like I, I have very closeconversations with friends,
often about VJ, and I feel likeit's one of the most sleptpton
brands in the sport.
Like they have amazing shoes,like especially yeah if you're
running on like technicalterrain like I know.
Vj is very popular amongst likethe fell runners uh over in the
uk which is similar terrain umyeah, and I'm excited to see

(01:00:45):
what the I know they likerevamped their line this year.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
So I'm excited, excited to to maybe try out some
of those.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Yeah, their ultras are for it.
They're an interesting company,like I've considered like
looking at them to see if Icould get them to sponsor the
podcast a while back and waslike trying to figure out like
who the hell is the decisionmaker here, and I think it's
just a small business.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Yeah, it's really small.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Yeah.
It was like and then they'relike the north american group is
like pretty tiny.
So it's exactly.
Yeah, yeah, I kind of like that.
It's like more of a like smalltown vibe, yeah, yeah, you know,
blue collar springsteen, yeah,yeah, yeah, um, for sure, yeah,
so all right, let's get into.

(01:01:25):
We're at about an hour here, soI'm going to get into some
questions.
I'm very curious, uh, to hearwho inspires you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Okay, so there are so many women in the sport.
Obviously that inspire me, butI will say the people that
inspire me the most are probablypeople closest to me who I see
working really hard every day.
My partner, jay.
He's a firefighter and he'sworked really hard to transition
his career into firefightingand like I just see him putting

(01:01:54):
like consistent work everysingle day to get to that um,
and it's just it's really coolto like like be with a first
responder like every day and seelike what that job is like.
It's pretty crazy, um andimpressive.
And also my mom inspires mebecause she's just like the

(01:02:14):
nicest person in the world and Ijust aspire to be like just a
little bit as like kind andempathetic as she is.
So, um, those are two peoplewho inspire me that's a good
answer.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I like that, um, and I always you know I can always
respect someone that likechanges their career into
something like I don't know,like I I still don't know what I
want to be when I grow up.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
So, like, when people find like what they love and
what they like to do, it'salways pretty cool to see yeah,
yeah, and he was like just doingoffice work for you know most
of his career after college andhe's just like really
unfulfilled by it and it was sodetached.
It was also in the financialservices industry but it was
like, really I know killing oursouls.

(01:02:58):
Um, it was like really far fromwhat he loves and he loves being
in the mountains too Um, andjust like.
Experiencing real things andbeing a first responder is like
you.
Just, you're like in the mostintense and realist situations
that you possibly can be in life.
Um, like you, just you're likein the most intense and realist
situations that you possibly canbe in life.
Um, and you could.
You could be like one minute.
I don't like eating dinner withyour family and then like, and

(01:03:21):
then like dealing with like acrazy fire, like an accident or
something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
So it's just like it really makes you feel yeah,
exactly it's like so real it'sreal life for sure.
All right, I got to ask youabout this.
I kind of asked you about racesbefore.
Is there any bucket list racesthat you have like for the
future?
Like I know, I talked to a lotof people like mine is like
series and all which I God damnit.
I need to get to one of thesedays Like is there any like
bucket list race that you wantto do and it doesn't matter,

(01:03:49):
could be anywhere in the worldyeah, that's such a good
question.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
There's so many, why can I think of any right now?
Um, oh man, like I literallywatch all the live streams that
I possibly can on races and likethe any golden trail series
race looks so sick.
Um, on, like any sky runningtype race looks amazing.
I, I don't know, like I I wishI could think of one, but they

(01:04:15):
all look really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Do you think, um, that's something you try to get
to in the next few years, maybedoing a uh, I'm a sit series and
all but a golden chair seriesrace, like if maybe broken arrow
comes back for another year.
For that I know there's aMexico race this year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
There's quite a few like really solid, um, golden
trail races around the world.
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Um, there's, there's so many, Idon't know.
There's so many races that Iwant to do.
Um, oh, I don't know why Ican't think um, like anything
out west that's like moremountainous too.

(01:04:50):
I would really enjoy that.
The rut was one of my bucketlist races.
I feel like there's one that'ssimilar to the rut, but I just
can't think of it.
Speedgoat maybe.
Yeah, I did want to doSpeedgoat, speedgoat is similar.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
That's another solid one.
Speedgoat that's a tough raceto nail, especially the 50k.
That's that's bananas race.
I'm really excited you signedup for the rut.
I think that's going to be acool experience and like that's
like a good, especially likedealing with injury now, like
that's like you know, whenyou're back from injury, like
when you overcome that, it'sgoing to be so sweet, like when
you get to go do that race.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
It's pretty cool oh my gosh, yeah, have you done it,
or been out there?

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
I've not a bunch of like, I've trained with a bunch
of good friends that have goneout to go race it.
It's been on like I've beensigned up the last two years and
just like, by the time I getseptember I'm like, I'm a little
tired, like like last year washard because I had um with the
podcast.
We were doing stuff for pike'speak, um.
So it's always that conflictionbetween, like that's a late
season race, uh, this year wehad pike's peak upcoming the

(01:05:54):
year off pike's peak again.
But yeah, it's like that, thatkind of conflict, that it's like
, man, I do so much work aheadof time for that, for like the
you know all the podcast stuffthat it's like I gotta.
Yeah, it's very difficult.
That's one of the hardestthings and challenges I've been
trying to figure out is how tobalance like doing the
podcasting thing but also tryingto make sure like I have all my
like eggs in the basket andeverything figured out for like

(01:06:16):
competing yeah seriously, Idon't know how you do it like
you're coming out with so manypodcasts, like two to three a
week, and it takes like so muchtime.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Yeah, it's like that's so.
Oh, my gosh was like how do you, how do you do that in a
full-time job and train at thelevel you are?
This?

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
past week, probably a lot of other things this past
week got me.
I was like man, like this is,this is a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
I need a break yeah, a beach with a margarita yeah,
you need a vacation, like, orjust like, reduce it to maybe
one podcast a week or something,because I'm like every time I
see it I'm like no, like it'slike too much.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Like I love, I mean I love to see it, but like you
don't need to do that much ifit's like taking away from your
life, you know you know, it'snot too bad, like it depends on
like what it is, like a lot ofthem like so, for instance, like
certain interviews, like I lovepreparing for and like getting
ready for them, um, and likedoing the research ahead of time
, and like conversation to me islike a dance, right, it's like
this, this dance back and forthwhere, like you know, you're

(01:07:16):
just trying to learn more aboutthe person and yeah it's like a
skill in a lot of ways.
That part I really enjoy it'sthe editing and then the social
media component.
Like this is something I wasgoing to ask you because, like
you've got like a really goodyoutube and you're a very good
storyteller on instagram, like Ifound, like you're one of those
people that, like you're veryit's very easy for you to kind
of convey.
Like you talk about yourtraining, you talk about what

(01:07:38):
you're up to, you talk aboutlike skiing and running.
That comes very natural to youis that.
Would you agree with that, or?

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
thank you.
Yeah, I, I think I've realizedthat it that that has it comes
naturally to me.
Just kind of recently I waslike, okay, I think I'm pretty
good at telling stories and I'vegotten more into social media
and I'm working with a couple ofgroups helping them with their
social media and so I thinkabout that a lot.

(01:08:06):
I'm like how do I make this aninteresting story?
Because that's what people wantto see.
They don't care if it's like Imean, some people care a little
bit if it's like a cool shot orlike you know, all the equipment
you used was like top of theend, like top of the line
equipment and like the sound isperfect, like people don't
really care about that as muchas just it being a good story.

(01:08:28):
So, yeah, I've been, I've beenthinking about that a lot lately
.
Yeah, I think you do a greatjob.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
It's very like, it's very organic, it's very like.
I think the word I'm lookingfor is authentic Like.
It's very like the one I saw acouple of rails where you're
like just talking about yourtraining like, just like, this
is what I'm up to, this is whatgoing through right now.
You're like man, this reallysucks and like I'm trying to get
through this and it's like youknow, it's just um, it's very

(01:08:54):
relatable.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
I think there's thank you, yeah, yeah, I always find
it helpful when people sharemore, and I'm like always trying
to encourage people to sharemore, because people are
inclined not to Um, but like Ithink everyone benefits from it
when you do so.
I try to tell myself that too.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, that was super cool.
Are you a big music person?
Uh, yes, but it varies a lotLike every kind of genre like
it's just a mix.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
What's your walkout song?
Oh yeah, oh man, I should haveprepared for this one.
Oh man, like I go throughphases of having like a walkout
song where it's like my workoutsong and like I choose it
specifically and I'm trying tothink of one I have right now,
like maybe, like that's Not Meby Skepta it's so crazy, I don't

(01:09:53):
know, that's just the first oneI could think of.
Or like Daisy by Ashnikko.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Daisy by Ashnikko.
I don't know any of thesepeople.
I got to look this up.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Oh, my God, it's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Oh, super cool, super cool Are you?
Are you listening to musicduring training, like, are you
like a music, like like pop onthe tunes during a long race, or
uh?

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
I use.
Yeah, I used to listen to musicwhile training, Um, now I
mostly listen to podcasts, Um,but if, if it's like, if it's a
track workout or something I'llput on music and like turn it up
for the intervals.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
It's the way to go.
Yeah, I, I, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Yeah, it like changes over time as you train and,
like um, get used to likedifferent head spaces and stuff
yeah, no, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
I lost my train.
Music stuff um music, um, ohcompetition.
I gotta ask you, are you supercompetitive?

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
uh.
So this has also changed overtime.
Like I used to be, I think,really competitive, like I would
get so amped up and I'd be likelistening to the pump up songs
and everything and I'd be like,oh yeah, I'm gonna be the best,
like whatever, even though Iwasn't even good at the time, um
.
But but I think as you go, asyou compete more and like

(01:11:13):
experience like true competition, like your feelings change a
little bit, like I don't feelthat like desire to to win as
much anymore, like I don't know,like that fire thing, um of
like like I want to to beat thepeople here here.
Like for me, competing is morelike working with the other

(01:11:36):
people and like everyone istrying to do their best, and so
I'm like I feel so much likeempathy and like connection to
people when I'm racing and I'mlike rooting for the other women
when I'm out there, so probablylike not so competitive anymore
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
I think it's just no, I think it's just a really
positive and like, very likehealthy mindset.
And the reason I'll say that isbecause, like I, I was, like I
said in my research for thisepisode, I was looking I think
it was like your video or realor post that you were talking
about um from race the cog andyou're like you know, I just
didn't have the day that Iwanted to have out there, but I

(01:12:12):
can't wait to come back and PR Ithink it was the actual.
It was the interview thatAravaipa did with you after that
race and you're like you knowwhat, I didn't have the day I
wanted, but I can't wait to comeback and PR and I just, like I
don't know, to do my best outthere and if that's a win,
that's a win, and if that's apodium, that's a podium.

(01:12:32):
If it's top 10, it is what itis right.
I think that's a very healthymindset to have.
I can't help but notice overyour right shoulder you have a.
What is that thing?
Is that an axe?
Is that a trophy?
You won.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
I'm like yeah, it is um, yeah, that's totally an axe,
um, where do oh that?
That was x-terra, like trailrun um world champs in sugarloaf
maine that's dope, that's asweet like sweet trophy it's the
best trophy.
It's like a legit axe, like Iwill actually use that shop wood
super cool, super, so cool uh,well, listen, abby, I uh, I

(01:13:08):
don't want to take the rest ofyour day.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
I can't wait to meet you, youwhen I come out this summer,
looking forward to getting onsome Northeast trails.
Yeah, I really appreciate itand thank you for the
conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Honored to be on the pod and,yeah, very excited to be out
there at Son of B and Cirque andcheer for you and everyone else
.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
I appreciate it.
Thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Thanks, bye.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
What'd you guys think ?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
I want to thank Abby so muchfor coming on.
I really appreciate theconversation and looking forward
to many more in the future.
Pretty cool stuff there.
So, before you guys get going,do me a solid.
You can support Abby the bestway by hopping on Instagram and
giving her a follow.
You can find her atabbyjbennett that's
B-E-N-N-E-T-T on Instagram.

(01:13:54):
Give her a follow.
Let her know what you guysthought about the episode.
I'm sure she'd love to hearfrom you all.
I'm sure she'd love to hearfrom people interested in races
in the Northeast and stuff likethat as well.
So, super cool stuff.
I want to thank Abby so muchfor coming on, excited for her

(01:14:15):
2025 season.
Guys, before you get going, ifyou enjoyed this episode, hop on
Spotify, apple, youtube,wherever you consume your
podcasts, and please give us afive-star rating and review.
That's how we can continue toget these episodes of these
amazing athletes out to theworld and continue to do some
fun storytelling there.
Last but not least, thisepisode is brought to you by
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I hate.
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So, guys, have a great rest ofyour week.
I've got some amazing episodescoming to you this week, some
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(01:15:39):
So thanks so much forsupporting us.
Thank you you.