#98 - Lindsay Allison - The Steep Stuff Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, fam?
Welcome back to the Steep StuffPodcast.
I'm your host, james Lariello.
I'm so excited today to bringyou guys a conversation with
none other than Lindsay Allison.
We spoke just fresh off of herwin at the Lake Sonoma Marathon,
as well as a couple of weeksremoved from her podium finish
at the big Alta 50K inCalifornia.
We got into a lot of stuff.

(00:21):
It was a really funconversation.
Lindsay had actually justrecently this year joined the
Altra team.
We talked about how thatcalendar and her big goals and
we talked about 2024 and kind ofwhat led her to joining the

(00:49):
ultra team.
And, yeah, super funconversation.
One more thing we jumped intothat I thought was kind of
interesting and compelling wasjust living and training in
Telluride.
What an interesting place.
It's one of the most beautifulmountain towns in the country,
if not the world, and kind ofthe pros and cons of being able
to live in one of thesebeautiful places and how she
sometimes will split timebetween California, where she

(01:09):
grew up and went to college, andColorado.
So, without further ado, I hopeyou guys enjoy this one.
It's a great conversation.
I really appreciate Lindsay forcoming on the podcast and
letting me help tell her story.
So, without further ado, noneother than Lindsay Allison Time.

(01:41):
Ladies and gentlemen, we arelive.

(02:29):
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think.
Lindsay Allison, welcome to thesteep stuff podcast.
How's it going?
It's good.

(03:35):
Thanks so much for having me.
Yeah, I'm stoked to finallyhave a conversation.
I feel like when I started thispodcast, I always put together
like lists of folks I want toeventually have on and you've
been on that list, so start tofinally have a conversation and
and get to chat.
And how's your?
Uh, how's your day going?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Day is going well mid work day for me but we got um a
really awesome tan summit thismorning.
I'm I'm in the Bay area rightnow, um, so that always kicks
the day off strong.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
I'm jealous, I'm jealous.
It was a boring track run forme, but I feel you on the uh
sneaking out in the middle ofthe day to do podcasts.
It's kind of my, it's kind ofhow I my MO right now.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Um, so all right, let's get started.
Maybe give me I'd love to hearthe five minute elevator pitch
on like your background withrunning Obviously you've got
like a really cool background.
Maybe talk about Stanford,where you grew up, and things
like that.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, so I grew up in the Bayarea, um, and I I wasn't really
a runner, I was more of just anathlete.
Um, my family is very active.
Um, so I grew up playing soccer.
I did a lot of gymnastics,actually did trampoline, which
is a competitive sport.
Gymnastics actually didtrampoline, which is a

(04:48):
competitive sport, believe it ornot.
Yeah, I ski, raced, so a lot ofdifferent things, and running
was dabbled in there.
For sure I did a little bit ofcross country, you know,
honestly, in middle school, alittle bit in high school, but
more so even earlier on, butreally just grew up active and
really loved the outdoors.
Grew up active and really lovedthe outdoors.

(05:08):
And then, let's see, I did dosome cross country in high
school and that was sort ofwhere my ultra running interest
was peaked.
I some people might know AlexVarner he's like a old name in
the sport but basically he was aassistant cross country coach
in my high school and he wouldkind of come in randomly from
time to time and we reallyconnected my senior year and

(05:30):
that was the year I think it washis first Western States and
that was the first time I'dheard of Western States, and so
I think that actually really wasthe start for me of like, wow,
I didn't know people could runthat far, I didn't know people
wanted to run that far, but Iwas really intrigued by it, and
so that was kind of in my mind,I would say, as I went to

(05:51):
college.
I went to Stanford, I wasn't onthe track team or anything, but
I definitely just ran for fun.
And my junior year I made afriend who was also sort of in
the running community.
He had done the rut a couple oftimes growing up, he grew up in
Montana, and so I think thatwas again like, oh, look at this

(06:14):
, another person who does thistype of running that I'm super
interested in, and I think Ireally just needed a person to
show me what that would looklike.
So I started running moreseriously, I would say, in
college and then, you know, didthe first trail half marathon
and then ended up doing my first50k actually the day before my

(06:36):
graduation, which was a funny, afun little little thing.
That was a broken arrow, butyeah, yeah, basically, like
since college I've just I justreally fell in love with the
sport, I would say, and, um,have just kind of continued
doing it.
Um, I basically, after Igraduated, I moved to Telluride

(06:57):
um for the summer.
A friend was working in therestaurant, or she was.
She got a job working at thenewspaper Um, and I I kind of
came cause I had a job aftercollege but, um, it was going to
start nine months later.
So I went with her um just forfun and that was where I really
fell in love with like truemountain running Um, so that was

(07:19):
kind of my intro there.
And then basically since then,um, I moved back to Boulder for
the job.
After I was in Telluride for alittle bit um lived with Andy
Wacker and Carly, which manypeople do.
They're great Um.
So that was again like I feellike my progression has really
just been getting more and moreinvolved in the community and

(07:39):
loving the community so muchthat I keep running and then
keep pushing myself and kind offinding I've really found it
through through that Avenue.
So sometime in Boulder and thenwe went back to, we moved back
to Telluride about three and ahalf years ago now and um, so
it's really been just kind oflike continuing that journey
over time Super cool.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
I got to go back and ask you about competitive
trampoline, Like what?
What like how do the pointsystems work?
Like, how do they score it?
Like what?
What a rad sport.
It sounds dope.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, it's an Olympic sport.
You can watch it in theOlympics, um, yeah, it's it.
So it's it's like gymnastics,but there's three events.
There's trampoline likeliterally the trampoline.
You do 10 skills, um, andthere's like one compulsory
routine that everyone does andthen one optional routine where
you make it up but it has tohave certain difficulty, um, and

(08:30):
then you're judged like similarto gymnastics, just on form and
difficulty, um.
And then there's two moreevents one is called the double
mini, which is like a trampoline, sort of like a vault like you
run up to, you do a skill ontoit and a skill off of it.
And the last one's tumbling,which is basically like on the

(08:50):
floor exercise in gymnastics,like they're actual tumbling
passes.
That's all you do.
There's no dancing involved.
It's just like the, the, thetumbling part.
But yeah, I, I got into it.
I was doing gymnasticscompetitively growing from the
time I was in like first gradeor something, and then I hurt my

(09:10):
elbow, um, and and our gym wasstarting a trampoline program
and so I couldn't really dogymnastics, cause your elbow is
pretty important, um, but Icould do trampoline and so I
kind of gotten it, gotten intoit through that, and then yeah,
I just I really enjoyed it.
It was.
It was also easy to do withmultiple sports because, um, it

(09:31):
was a lot less time thangymnastics typically is.
You know, gymnastics can belike five hours a day type thing
, Um, but trampoline was a lotmore reasonable.
So I would go from like swimteam to soccer to trampoline and
it was all doable, whereasgymnastics was not, was not
going to be that sustainablewith other things.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's crazy, All right, Well, I you know what I
appreciate you.
You, that was a lot ofinformation.
I'm actually like reallyimpressed and super stoked on it
.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
I'm like all right, it's cool.
You should watch it.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
People are really good at it the next time the
Olympics are on.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it's definitely one of those ones that's on at
midnight Not really in primetime, but it's still fun to
watch.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
All right, let's get to.
So you live in Telluride, so Ilive in the Front Range.
I'm in Colorado Springs.
I love Telluride.
I love the San Juans.
It's one of the most beautifulplaces in the world in my
opinion.
I know there's a lot of prosand cons.
I think a lot of the pros isthe access.
The cons are probably theability to travel and get places
, especially as a professionalathlete.
Can you maybe just talk aboutthat?
What is it like living thereand what do you like when you

(10:36):
don't like?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, it's a really good question.
Oh gosh, where to even start?
So I think.
So the pros are are prettyobvious.
I mean, the mountains areunreal.
I think I'm super biased, but Ithink the San Juan's are the
best mountains in the U?
S like by far, and so I thinkjust being able to be in the

(11:00):
mountains is just really special.
I also, so I work full time aswell and I I just think, like
having the access I do with thejob I do, like the best case is
Telluride, because I can be inthe Alpine at 6 AM and then I
can be in my desk at nine and um, you know, living other places,

(11:22):
you can definitely do similarthings, but the fact that I can
actually go on a mountain runfor work, I think, is that
there's just nothing that cancompare to that Um, so I'm super
grateful for that.
Um.
Other pros the community isamazing.
It's really tight knit.
Um, we actually have quite afew runners um and more runners

(11:42):
over time.
Like when we moved there threeand a half years ago, there was
not very many runners and we'vehad this kind of like people
who've been doing other types ofsports um have kind of dabbled
in running over time and it'sit's just really fun to have
that group of people and seesome people progress and you
know it's it's just a reallyit's a special group and I think

(12:05):
with that, I really like howyou're not as embedded in like
the insanity of running culture,if you, if you know what I mean
.
Like there's a lot of therunning community is amazing,
but it can definitely becomeoverwhelming, I think, when
you've got a bunch of peopledoing a bunch of workouts and

(12:26):
you know they're doing their ownrun at a certain time cause
they want to get whatever statsthey want for the day, and, um,
the Telluride community is likethe opposite of that.
You know it's really just aboutoh, this person really wants to
do this route Cause it looks socool and they want to get on
top of whatever mountain thisday, and I really love that.
That perspective, um, which Ithink is is you, it's not unique

(12:50):
, to tell you right, but it'sdefinitely emphasized there Like
running is about the experienceof running rather than the
stats, um, and so it'sinteresting to kind of like
thread the needle there, um, butyes, there are a lot of cons
and I think so the first one forme, like having a job.

(13:13):
I do think there are trade-offsof deciding to take a full-time
job, remote, as opposed tobeing in the office, like
there's career trade-offs thatI'm definitely making and I
think right now they're theright trade-offs, but I don't
know where I want to be in fiveyears, and so I do think about
that sometimes, like I am takinga risk and I and I think I'm

(13:35):
focusing on running and, youknow, emphasizing that part of
my life right now, um, and Ithink it's the right decision,
but I do think there issomething there.
You know I love being in themountains, but it's definitely
deciding to prioritize that partof my life over a career right
now, which I'm happy doing fornow.

(13:59):
And then, yeah, it's really hardto get places.
It's super remote in Telluride.
You know the nearest airport's80 minutes away and even then
you have to go from there todenver, to them, wherever you
want to be, um, so that's reallyhard, um, and then also,
honestly, like if you haveanything that happens to you
medically, yeah, it's reallyhard to get help too.

(14:21):
Yeah, yeah, like if you have,you know, if you think you have
a stress fracture, you need anmri.
Yeah, you have to go toMontrose.
So there's a clinic but youknow anything more in depth than
that?
You're driving 90 minutes eachway.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Wow, that's crazy.
In the three and a half yearsthat you've been there, like how
much have you seen it change?
Cause it's like I don't knowwe've seen in Colorado,
especially in the mountain towns, like just like an inundation
of folks from like out of stateand it's like raised the prices
drastically.
So it's got to be.
I feel like that's an addedstress as well, just because
things are so expensive in thesetiny towns and it's got to be

(14:55):
harder to live Right.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Totally.
It's definitely changed overthe last three and a half years.
I kind of think I entered alittle bit when when that influx
was happening.
So you know it was.
It was 2021, during COVID.
A lot of remote people that'swhen I moved to Colorado.
Yeah, so I think that was partof the change, but definitely
over time.
You know there's a lot ofchallenges in small mountain

(15:19):
towns, like you said.
Housing is really difficult andprices going up don't help
anything.
But yeah, I think it definitelyhas changed.
It's staying pretty true, Ithink, to its roots, and I think
the one thing that is goodabout Telluride is it's pretty
landlocked and there's not muchroom for sprawl, so we don't get

(15:42):
the same sprawling growth whichwould cause all sorts of other
issues.
But you definitely get the likeinternal small mountain town
conflicts that arise over time.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, that's super interesting.
I do want to ask about therunning community, cause we kind
of we did touch on that alittle bit.
You said more and more peoplehave kind of come in.
Is it like a good mix of like,do you get a lot of climbers, do
you get a lot of like peoplefrom the mountaineering and ski
communities as well?
That kind of like?
Make this up, cause it's, Ifeel, like the San Juans are
this interesting intersection ofall kinds of mountain athlete,
would you say like that makes itup as well.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yes, totally.
Um, basically there's there's Idon't want to oversimplify
Telluride running community, soforgive me, Telluride people.
But I think there's kind of twotypes of people.
Like, there are some people whorun year round me, ryan, my
partner included, and so youknow there's some people who are

(16:37):
doing it for the competition,for like the love of true
running.
But then I'd say there's thisother population of people which
are the mountain people, whoski in the winter, do all these
epic backcountry routes, andthen in the summer there's no
snow, so they just do the samestuff, but on foot, and they're

(16:57):
all just incredible athletes.
That's the cool part about it.
None of them I I don't thinkwould say they're focused on
running, but they're really goodat it.
Um, and so I think it's it'sjust cool to see a different
side of the sport where you knowthose people just love being in
the mountains and running isthe most efficient way in the

(17:17):
summer.
Um, so we do get the the therunning community swells, swells
in the summer and definitelydwindles in the winter, but, um,
I kind of love that, like yousee different people, you're
running with different people.
Um get inspired by their reallyEpic routes, um, in the winter
and in the summer.
So but yeah, it's definitelyyou get the climbing ski people

(17:41):
that are kind of transitioninginto running for the summer
months.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Super cool.
It's interesting too because,like you said, in the summer
it's got a.
Is that annoying to you?
I mean, I know you probablytravel a lot Like I.
It's.
It's funny Like I'm I findmyself I live very close to
Manitou Springs, where theManitou incline is, so we get a
lot of tourists and likeespecially now, now that it's
like starting to get intotourist season, it drives me
nuts Like is it something?
Does it?

(18:06):
Is it a little stressful havingmore and more people?
I feel like that would drive mecrazy, especially in a town
like that.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
No, because at the end of the day, we're talking
about the running communitygoing from five people to 20
people, not 22 thousands.
So, no, I love it.
I love that.
Uh, there's more people gettinginto running.
We have like a weekly Tuesdaynight squad run and last summer
we were getting like 30 peopleand I that was just.

(18:32):
That was awesome.
Um, I think the more peoplethat get into running in these
small communities, the better.
But I know what you're saying.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a different scale.
I would not be saying the samethings.
I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
I think the Boulder folks can probably agree with me
too.
I had to go up to Boulder for aphoto shoot recently it was
like on a Sunday and I was like,oh my God, like I could never
live there, like I thought theincline was crazy, like this is
bananas.
It's crazy, it's really crazyDuring the hard rock season.
That's got fun for you too,like I know.
I think I remember seeing youon the live stream.
I think it was like you andRyan.
Uh, what were you pacing LikeNick Corey, a couple of years

(19:06):
ago or last year, like that hadto have been a super fun like
part.
Does that inspire you at all towant to do hard rock one day,
or yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, it's really.
It's awesome to see um hardrock come through.
Every year.
It's one of my favoriteweekends, for sure.
Um, it's super inspiring.
I hope that I can do hard rocksomeday.
It's daunting because I havezero qualifiers, so I have zero
tickets.
So I definitely think aboutthat, though I and maybe that's

(19:34):
a different conversation we canhave but I'm I feel like I'm
slowly getting to the pointwhere I want to do some of those
a hundred miles.
I've definitely focused on someof the shorter stuff up until
now and so, but in the back ofmy mind, I'm like I should
really do one of these soon so Ican get into hard rock someday
60 by the time you get in.
But but yeah, I think I mean thecourse is amazing.

(19:54):
I've done soft rock before andit's, it's so, it's.
It's such a great course and Ijust love, um, you know, when
everyone's here and can see thatit's really special.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, yeah, all right , so I don't want to bury the
lead too much.
You're wearing an Altra shirt.
You just signed with Altra thisyear.
First of all, congratulations.
Super, super cool.
What a cool brand.
Great shoes, great apparel.
Let's talk about Altra a littlebit.
How did that partnership cometo be and what are your thoughts
so far?

Speaker 2 (20:25):
little bit Like how did that partnership come to be
Like and what are your thoughtsso far?
Yeah, great question.
Um, I, so it came about becauseAmanda Basham and I have to
give her a shout out becauseshe's incredible.
Um, she, honestly, we had wehad raced together at the
McDowell mountain run this year,just the 25K, but we chatted

(20:47):
for a while after the race andshe really just reached out and
said, hey, have you consideredchatting with Ultra?
And so from there she connectedme with the brand manager and
we really just hit it off and itkind of went from there and I
just think that's so cool.
I feel like there are a numberof women in the sport that are
so that are really looking outfor other women and I think

(21:07):
that's pretty unique to trailrunning and, yeah, I'm really
grateful.
I think that a lot of the sportis like being given the right
opportunities.
So I think Amanda's amazing andI'm really grateful for her to
like have thought of me and yeah, so I think that was I'm very
grateful to her.
Um, but, yeah, I've, I reallylove the shoes I and I I don't

(21:31):
think Colby the brand managerwill mind me saying this, but
you know, I was pretty skepticalwhen I first was chatting with
him.
I was like I'll try the shoes,but I don't know what's going to
happen.
But I've been blown away.
Um, and I think, being with thebrand at this time, where
they're they really are changing.
They have a new product officer, chief product officer, and
stuff is they're real, they'rereally innovating.

(21:54):
I'm also sample size, which isgreat because I've tried some of
the new stuff and it's get,it's just getting better.
So I've been super excited,super excited about the products
and yeah, it's just been, it'sjust getting better.
So I've been super excited,super excited about the products
, um, and yeah, it's just been.
It's been great to be a part ofa team, um, and I'm I'm super
grateful to ultra for, uh, youknow, supporting me and for
taking a chance on me really, um, and again to Amanda, because I

(22:17):
think, um, we need more peoplelike her in the sport for sure.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Dude Amanda's amazing Good people and also has the
probably the biggest calves I'veever seen in my life.
Totally.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Like I was astounded.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
That's right.
It could be the ultras, that'swhat does it?
What um?
So, as far as shoe goes likewhat?
Uh?
What were you racing um the bigAlton when you went through?
I was.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
I was racing in the Mont Blanc carbons, so their
carbon trail shoe, which Ireally like.
I found that most of the shoesto me they don't feel like zero
drop, which isn't necessarily abad thing.
But I was expecting to feelwhen I started trying the shoes

(23:00):
that it would feel verydifferent, very flat, but they
don't feel like that to me.
So yeah, I've really enjoyedthe carbon shoe, um, and that's
been my primary racing shoe andprobably will continue to be Um.
But yeah, I'm really excitedabout some of the new stuff as
well.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Super cool.
Well, congratulations and yeahwhat.
I think it's a great fit tolike just a cool brand.
I was really stoked that, likeyou know, like they made a lot
of like big splash this yearwith Tara Dower signing her to a
landmark deal and, you know,just signing more women to the
team.
I think it's like what they'redoing is is awesome, so super
cool.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, I totally agree yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, Um, all right, let's talk big Alta.
So you just got back.
You got on the podium at bigAlta um, second place to a
monster in Tabor, Hemming, Likewhat was.
Let's talk about that race alittle bit.
What was it like throwing downon some of your home trails and
how did that feel?

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, um, yeah, big author was great.
I first of all just shout outto free trail um and day break,
cause it's a really awesomecourse.
I really hope I.
You know people have beensaying they hope this race kind
of becomes the new early seasonopener, and I totally echo that.
I think it's an awesome race umto kick off the season with.

(24:10):
But, but yeah, the the racewent really well.
I um it's, you know, hindsight,2020, but I, so I started, I
started off um a little bitbehind Tabor and then there was
another girl um with her who ranwith her most the race um,
which was awesome to see um.
But I started out with KeelyHenninger, um, and we were

(24:32):
chatting for a couple miles andI really enjoyed that.
I'm very chatty when racing.
It's one of the things I'mworking on, not chatting during
racing um, but yeah, so I kindof like let a gap form toward
the beginning of the race Um,and it sort of just held for the
whole day, um, and I was ableto reel in the other woman I

(24:53):
think her name's Aaron um toward, I forget, around like 20, 20
some miles, um, but the gap totaper like it really was just
staying the same Um, and I'dneed to like fact check myself
on that.
But I think in the last eightor so miles I was, there was a
segment for it and it was likewe were 20 seconds apart, so it

(25:14):
really felt like this gap openedand then it stayed Um, and so I
you know, in hindsight I'm like, oh, I wonder if I had just
tried to hold with her for alittle bit longer, what would
have happened?
And I think that's definitelysomething I've been working on
like feeling like I belong withthose types of amazing runners.
So I've been thinking aboutthat in hindsight.

(25:35):
But obviously, you know, youcan't speculate about what would
have happened.
But I think that was my biggesttakeaway from the day of just
being more willing to put myselfout there at the start of races
and just see what happens,because I think I have developed
confidence in myself in thelater stages of races over time.

(25:55):
But I definitely the earlystages of the race is where I
usually doubt myself more.
So that was my biggest takeaway.
But amazing trails, love seeingall my friends.
That was my biggest takeaway.
But amazing trails, love seeingall my friends.
There's so many friends outhere and so I think just seeing
those people on the course and,um, yeah, it was a really it was
a really awesome day.
But yeah, hats off to Tabor.

(26:15):
She ran super fast off ofreally no trail training.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
So she's, she's, yeah , she's on but you know, kudos
to you, man, second place,second place and like and it was
a fairly stacked field in 50kfor women like kill it.
Like you said, kill you wasthere.
Like quite a few really strongwomen came there to uh to throw
down.
So congratulations, and I'msure it must have been super
special, especially like withthe fact that, like it's, you

(26:41):
know, not too far from you, knowwhere you grow up and stuff
like that, which is super cool.
Um, yeah, it's funny you factthat like it's, you know, not
too far from you, know where yougrew up and stuff like that,
which is super cool.
Um, yeah, it's funny, you saythat, like I think, after
watching and like followingalong, I'm like dude, I'm
definitely going to the 28 Knext year.
Like it's a super like, I likethat people show up, it's
competitive and yeah, I justlove everything free trail
starting to put together for it,which is cool.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
So I think they're a big reason that it's gotten so
big.
So, yeah, the race is, thecourse is awesome.
It's so runnable steep but sorunnable, it's like the perfect
early season.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, Good, good, butt kicker for for the
beginning of the season.
Let me ask you this, Cause Iknew when we first started the
podcast you had said somethingabout Mount Tam like maybe talk
about like the specialness ofthat to the area and just like
how special that.
Because I feel like every timeI see a story of yours on
Instagram like you're usuallylike on one of those trails or
somewhere on there, so I waslike it's gotta be a special
mountain for you, so maybe talkabout that, yeah, so I, um, I

(27:36):
went to high school at the baseof Mount Tam, basically, um, by
Phoenix Lake, if people knowwhat that is, but by Phoenix
Lake, if people know what thatis.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
But when I ran in high school we were a mile from
Phoenix Lake, which is like thebase of the Mount Tam Trail
system.
So, yeah, it's been a staple inmy life basically since I was
what, 14 or whatever.
So, yeah, I love those trails.

(28:05):
It's where I fell in love withtrail running to begin with, um,
and then I think what's reallyspecial is in high school, you
know, you're running three tofive miles a day, right, like
your long run is eight miles andit feels like forever, um, and
I, I think it's been really coolto come back here over time.

(28:25):
And you know, as I get more andmore into running, I can go
farther and farther.
Um, I love maps and I love,just like, being able to connect
all these parts of Mount Tamthat I didn't even know you
could connect.
You know, when you're youngyou're like, oh, stinson beach,
that's way far away, and they'relike, oh, wait, I can run there
now, um, so I think that's beenreally special over time.

(28:47):
And and I honestly think it'ssomething that most people who
grew up here probably don't everexperience, and so I'm it's not
lost on me that I just feelgrateful that I can come back to
the place I grew up.
I love it so much and I'm ableto to see it in like a totally
different way that I sort ofknew existed but I really didn't

(29:10):
growing up here.
Um so, yeah, I I love Mount Tamand I could could run there
forever.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's super cool.
I want to ask you about thedipsy race.
I saw on your um, on some ofyour uh like your ultrasound and
stuff like that, you had donethe quad dipsy but I didn't
check and I should have checkedthis at the results of like the
actual dipsy race, I figured I'djust ask you have you ever done
the act like the true and trydipsy and like what does that
race to you?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yes, I have done the true and try gypsy.
Um, I did it the year after Igraduated high school.
Um, it's a trip, it's.
It's a crazy race.
It's so cool.
Um, yeah, if if listenershaven't heard of it, definitely
look it up.
But there's like this handicap,um starting system where the

(29:56):
youngest people start first.
Um, or it's kind of it's.
It's too hard to explain.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Um, and so the.
The idea is that whoevercrosses the finish line should
handy, like, should actually win, with handicaps based on age
and health, basically just onage, I think, um, and gender, I
guess, um.
But so there's there's thatpart which is the beginning of
the race, and then there's the Ithink that's called the
invitational, and then there'slike the general race, which is,

(30:28):
I think it's equally split, 500people on 500 people.
So a thousand people on thistrail is crazy.
It's a seven mile race, um, andso I was you.
Every when you first get intothe Dipsy, you're in the general
masses and in order to get intothe race the next year,
automatically you have tobasically get into the top 500.

(30:50):
So you're like chasing thepeople that have started before
you.
So it was just a chaos, likeyou know, you've got people
ahead of you who are slowerbecause, but they are, but
they're in the invitationalsection.
So it's just like a chaos ofhumans basically.
But it's so fun.
I I don't, you know, I don'tremember everything about it,
but I just remember, you know,passing people, knowing people,

(31:14):
saying hi to people.
You know, it's just, it's justreally a chaotic but awesome
experience.
So but yeah, that was, that wasa special, a special race I did
then.
And then when I was growing upthough I had heard of one of my
friend's dads would always dothe quad dipsy and I at the time

(31:35):
I was like that is psychotic,who would do the dipsy four
times?
I can, I can hardly imaginedoing it once.
Yeah, as an aside, on our swimteam.
I was on the swim team growingup and once a year we would all
just hike the dipsy to the beachand then we'd have a beach day.
So that was like my frame ofreference for the Dipsy at the
time, like, oh my gosh,someone's not hiking this,

(31:57):
they're running it and they'redoing it four times.
That's crazy.
But as I got into ultra runningover time, I was like, well, I
need to do that.
So, yeah, I've done the quadthree times, three or four times
now and I love it.
I think it's it's an awesomerace.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Super cool.
Yeah, I just I got to get outthere for the like the
traditional dipsy.
One of these days it'sdefinitely on the list.
I've had a Mark Tatum on who'swon it a few years back and he
like won't stop talking about it.
It's like his favorite thing onthe planet.
So, yeah, I got to.
I got to see what the hype isall about.
It seems I just love when youget these races that are just
like so special to a community,like your Mount Marathons, your
dipsies, your Pikes Peaks, likesome of these races are just
like so deeply like intertwinedwith the community itself.

(32:39):
That it's.
It's just so special.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Totally, and it's so.
I mean, it's so old that it'sso much history.
I think that's really reallyspecial as well.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I gotta ask you not to.
I'm going to pivot a little bitout of racing.
It's just so interesting to mebecause every now and then I'll
talk to a power couple in thesport like Taylor Stack and his
partner.
It's just interesting to mebecause Ryan is to me, as
someone who follows SubUltra soclosely, one of the best
SubUltra athletes in the countryeasily one of the best sub

(33:15):
ultra athletes in the country,easily.
Um, big Ryan fan.
What is it like for, I guess,to like have a partner that's
also like a athlete at a highlevel?
Like, do you guys get out andtrain a lot together?
Do you have separate trainingschedules?
Like what is what does thatlook like?
It's gotta be like give andtake, cause maybe he wants to do
some races that you don't, orvice versa.
Like what is that like?

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I appreciate calling him out,Cause I I also think he's one of
the best and I don't feel likehe gets enough recognition.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
I don't know that he deserves to, for sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Um, but yeah it's, it's really fun, but it's
definitely sometimes stressful.
Um, it's funny to compare.
Like you know, I'll watch theHemings YouTube video and they
do a lot of their stuff togetherand that's my dream.
Like, if I could run every daywith Ryan, I would, but he
doesn't feel the same.
Um, I'm too slow but um, butyeah, it's, um, it's interesting

(34:05):
.
So, ryan, I honestly have tocredit him for a lot of my
success over the past couple ofyears.
Um, cause he pretty much hasdone all of my workouts with me
over the past couple of years,which is like that's really
incredible, like you know, andhe's sometimes doesn't his own

(34:25):
pace and but he's there likesupporting me for most of my
workouts, which is really reallyspecial.
But we typically do a coupleruns a week together.
I would say he always does myworkout.
We typically do one likeadventure run on the weekend
together at least, and then kindof randomly throughout the week

(34:48):
.
It is hard.
He also doesn't run as much asme.
I run a lot and he is prone toAchilles problems, so he'll, you
know, he tries to limit himself, um, and does a lot of biking.
So most days I would say it'swe're kind of doing our own
thing.
We also have really differentschedules, cause he works, um,
at a restaurant, so he works inthe evenings most days, whereas

(35:12):
you know I'm working relativelike nine to five ish, and so
I'm doing most of my runs likevery early in the morning or
after work, um, but we usuallydo a couple of runs a week
together, I would say, and thenthe weekends we try to do more
of the adventure stuff, um, butyeah, it's, it's definitely the
past couple of years we've donesimilar races and we typically

(35:34):
do do similar races.
I would say this year will beinteresting.
He is hoping to get intoLeadville via the.
There's like a Tahoe Leadvillerace this year.
Oh wow, yeah, it's cool.
Actually it's like a 50k.
I don't want to say it to toomany people, but yeah, they
added, they added another race.
So he, it's cool, Actually it'slike a 50 K, I don't want to
say it to too many people but,um, but yeah, they added a, they

(35:55):
added another race.
So he's trying to do that.
But I think Leadville trainingversus I'll be training for like
speed goat and CCC, it's prettydifferent.
Leadville is pretty fat, flat,flat and fast, um, whereas
obviously I'm trying to do waymore mountainous stuff.
So we'll see how that evolves.
But I feel like typically ourtraining has been similar enough

(36:18):
that at least the adventureruns make the most sense to do
together.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Super cool.
You guys should start a YouTube.
You got to do, you got to likea, like a training YouTube would
be kind of cool.
I always tell people to do this.
It'd be kind of kind of fun tofollow.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
I love all this influx of YouTube.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Right and Substack.
I've seen a lot of goodSubstacks lately.
No, it's super cool and thanksfor being candid Like I.
It's always interesting to mebecause you know you meet a lot
of people.
There's not as many couples inthe sport that are athletes at a
very high level, so it's alwaysinteresting to see, like what's
give and take and how you guysform your schedules and stuff
like that.
Let's talk about your schedule.
So you've got Broken Arrowcoming up, 46K.

(36:56):
Do you have anything beforethat or is it just Broken Arrow,
right?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
now?
I don't think so.
I'm debating a couple of things, but I probably will just train
to Broken Arrow at this point.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Super cool it's I don't know like just scrolling
through your, it's been reallyinteresting to see you and very
cool to see you like evolve andcontinue to get like
incrementally, like three placesbetter at broken arrow almost
every year and like last timearound you got fourth.
So I feel like you know theodds could possibly be it could
be in your favor this year, areyou is the goal to try to get,

(37:28):
uh, on the world's team um no, Imean like yes, but no, I guess,
is my answer.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I, I want to do the best I can at broken arrow is my
goal.
The world's team?
Like no, I'm racing ccc, that'smy goal.
So I think it would wouldn'treally make a ton of sense to do
worlds, though I would love to.
Um, so my goal is really justto race a super competitive
field at Broken Arrow.
I'm really excited for it.
Um, I uh, broken Arrow is myfavorite race for a lot of

(38:00):
reasons, but um, so I think justbeing able to be in such a
stacked field will be really,really cool.
Um, if that ends up beingworlds up, you know, you know
great, but I don't think that's.
It's not my intent okay,interesting.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, you're the first person that said that to
me.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Like, usually people are like I guess it is my goal.
Like I don't, I don't reallyput it into that because I I
like, yes, that'd be amazing,but I have you know, there's
other things that are happeningand people have talked about
whether it's responsible even torace worlds, and one of the

(38:40):
UTMB races.
So I haven't put much thoughtinto it, I guess is what I would
say, just because it feels alittle bit out of reach.
But you never know, yeah, younever know.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I mean you've had some amazing finishes.
I mean you've gotten.
Now you've what did?
You win the triple crown andyou've had great finishes at the
23 K and the 46 K.
The 46 K seems to be yourdistance there.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
So yeah, you never know.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
You never know.
It's a.
It's going to be fun to followalong.
You did say it's your favoriterace for so many reasons.
I'm curious to see like what,what?
What is it that about that race?
That's just so uh, like thereason you love it so much.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, so the most obvious reason is that I grew up
ski racing at Palisades, um, soit's like I, literally from the
time I was two, my parentsdrove me to Tahoe every weekend
and I skied there every singleweekend my whole life.
So it that mountain is like, sospecial to me, um, and to my

(39:39):
family, so it really feels likehome, like I feel possessive
over the mountain, like that ismy stomping grounds, Um, and
like I I there's part of thecourse that is the main area we
would train for downhill skiing.
So just to like, I remember thefirst time I did it, just
thinking what I'm going up itthis makes no sense Like, just

(40:02):
like the, the concept of runningBroken Arrow.
The first time I did it was somind boggling to me but also so
eyeopening to be like, wow, thisis steeper than I thought.
You know, those types ofrealizations were really fun.
But so that's the first reason.
And then, um, it was my first 50K.
So I think that it just feelslike a again, like a different

(40:23):
form of homecoming every year,where I have gotten a lot better
at it over the years and Ithink that's really cool to see
over time.
And um, you know it just, yeah,the the significance of the
race itself to me just being apart of my upbringing, and then
also just it's become this kindof like fitness check of my

(40:44):
progression over time, and so Ithink that's that also just
feels really special.
Um, and then, of course, likeit's just become such a great
atmosphere, um, so many peoplecome, brendan does an amazing
job um organizing it, and youknow it's such a fun weekend, um
that, yeah, I, I just I willalways go back to that race.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
It's, it's cool.
I got engaged there.
I like, yeah, I love that race.
Like, yeah, it's, it's such aspecial place, special like I
don't know, it's a really coolrace and one of these years I
got to go back.
Yeah, so let's move on frombroken arrow.
I do want to talk about speedgoat.
Last year you raced speed goat.
You said this year you're goingback, right?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yep, that's a hard race to get right, I hate speed
goat, it's something about it.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Maybe talk about it Like what do you think you can I
don't know improve on or changeor mix it up for for this year,
cause it's it seems to be agood test piece for races like
CCC.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, things like that.
It's really long time wise, soI think it it's a good training
stimulus.
Um, yeah, I, so I, I think Imade it.
I just made some mistakes goinginto it, like I think I um, I
didn't taper very well I so mymy biggest problem with running

(42:02):
is that I love, I love being inthe mountains and so, especially
in the summer, the Telluridesummer is so fleeting that I
just want to fit everything inand I want to do every route and
I want to do them every weekand I want to.
I basically just want tomaximize my summer, but Speedco
falls like right in the middleof the summer, basically, and so

(42:22):
it was last year.
I just felt this crazy pull oflike oh, I really want to do
this route because I think it'slike the only weekend I can do
it versus, you know, I shouldtaper, et cetera.
So in hindsight probably didn'texecute that very well, um, so
that was probably issue numberone.
But then last year I I reallydid start having like a number

(42:43):
of stomach issues, um, which Ihad never experienced before.
Um, and in hindsight it's so Ifeel so silly like admitting
this, but I had no idea thatprecision gels had no sodium
when I started using them.
Like they kind of came onto thescene last year and I was like I
should just try this gel and II I guess I just wasn't as

(43:05):
plugged into fueling Um and I soI was taking all these gels
cause I really liked them, Ithought they worked well, but I
was taking them with no sodiumand so I think that was the
cause of many of my stomachissues at the time and I think
that's probably what happened atspeed goat.
It wasn't, I was just a littlebit nauseous for a lot of the

(43:27):
day but I I definitely justdidn't feel very good and I
think that was a combination ofthe overtraining slightly and,
you know, not really nailing thefueling Um.
So I think those two things aregoing to be good to think about
next year, this, this year Um.
But but yeah, I think I don'tknow how you know that race.

(43:50):
It's interesting because thefirst climb is actually pretty
runnable and I think it's I itwas almost too runnable for me
compared to telluride terrain,because telluride train is
mostly not runnable.
So I think I need to figure outhow to maintain less or just
more runnable um.

(44:10):
I need to work on, I need totrain on those more, I think
this year Um, and just see, see,see how that goes.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Gotcha the runnable class, it's like.
I think the thing too, and thiskind of, this kind of maybe
goes hand in hand with fueling,like that was that side of that.
Wasatch just gets cooked andlike baked in the sun you get so
hot in there.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
It was also very hot.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, like I raced the Cirque series races this
summer in there and I was like Iwas astonished by how like
toasty it was.
Yeah, I did not like that.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
That's a good point.
I almost forgot.
I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, it gets super hot.
So, yeah, I don't know what'sup.
What is your fueling strategylike now?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Like do you what do you do?
Yeah, so well, now I work withVic Johnson shout out, vic
Johnson, he's the best.
So that's been really helpful.
I, I, I partnered with the feed, um, so I use all sorts of
stuff, but, um, yeah, I I'vekind of had a journey of fueling
this year.
I would say, like Black Canyon.
I messed up my Black Canyonsignificantly because of fueling
.
I think in hindsight I wasactually taking too much in.

(45:21):
I think I got overwhelmed withthe high carb fueling era and I
don't think everyone needs it.
To be honest, I'm pretty smalland so I think I think I just it
was a calibration issue, but Ifeel like.
So now Vicks helped me kind ofdial that back a little bit, and
then I've been so everyone'sobsessed with sweat testing.

(45:43):
I got an H drop which is like asensor that you can wear on a
regular basis, and that's beenreally helpful for me, actually,
because in Telluride we don'thave a sweat testing facility,
so I can't.
I can't do these like one-offtests as well as much, but
having this thing I can wearevery day if I want has been

(46:05):
really helpful for figuring outlike, what do I need?
Can?

Speaker 1 (46:09):
you talk about that for a second Like, what kind of
like?
What metrics are you gettingoff of that?
Is it just so you get?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
your fluid loss.
So, liters per hour, you getyour sodium concentration lost
um, absolute and per liter, Ithink you.
And then there's some likepotassium, other other
electrolytes, um, but it's it'sit's game changing, I think,
because your sweat rate doeschange a little bit.
So being able to dial it in orunderstand like, oh, if I'm

(46:36):
working, I'm doing a workout,it's going to be higher, if I'm
going to go for a longer run,it's going to change, like this,
like that's been really helpful, especially coming from winter
and Telluride where it wasfreezing, and that now I'm in
the Bay Area and it's, you know,60s, 70s, so that's been really
interesting and super helpful.
I'm pretty, despite my precisionmishap, I am fairly data

(47:01):
oriented.
So having that data or justthat information, has really
helped me and it makes a lot ofsense, like, in hindsight, a lot
of the things I've like, youknow, sometimes I've been like,
oh, I feel like I do need moresalt and like, sure enough, I'm
like slightly saltier relativeto my fluid loss.
So I think data like that hasbeen really interesting and good

(47:22):
to kind of confirm biases or,you know, change some things up.
So that's been, that's beenpretty helpful.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Does it like I have so many questions?
This thing's amazing.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I want to go buy one right now you should.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I'm a big fan.
Does it like it like?
Sticks you almost like in theblood.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
No, I wish I had it.
It's basically like it's like asquare, it's like one inch by
one inch and it I don't reallyknow there's a sensor on the
back of it and you put it.
You can just like, put it on anarmband or something they they
give you an armband, you can putit on Um, and it absorbs your
sweat, and so it does.
And I think it has some sort ofextrapolation calculator that

(48:04):
you know, based on however muchis coming off of your arm, um,
it extrapolates to how much thatcorrelates to with your whole
body, um, and it seemsrelatively accurate.
I mean, obviously I don't know,but I did do.
I did one sweat test that wasofficial and it's close enough.
They're close enough that Ifeel like I'm pretty confident
in it.
I also just think, getting thevolume of tests you start to

(48:26):
narrow in on, like, okay, thisis the range that's probably
accurate, but but yeah, I'm Imean, not sponsored.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I just yeah, you just sold me on it.
Probably 10 people probablyjust bought it too.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah, I've been talking about.
I've been talking about it to alot of the Marin people as well
and they're like, oh, I'mbuying this.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great idea.
I, I have a buddy that justliterally went to scratch like
two weeks ago and what gottengot the sweat test and he's like
you should go, you should do it, and I'm lazy, I'm like his sub
ultra.
I feel like.
I'm like, yeah, do I, like Idon't need to pay attention to
that stuff, but like still, fortraining and getting like, I'm
always about like, okay, whatcan I do to maximize every
variable possible?
That's one way to do it, youknow, especially when it comes

(49:06):
to like um, you know, from ahydration perspective,
especially here in the summer,because it's so dry and it's so
hot that it's always good toknow things like that so
interesting.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, super cool.
All right, so we talked aboutspeed.
Go where.
Let's get into CCC.
Have you?
Have you ever run a hundred K?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yep, okay.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
One out of three successful.
I would say Okay, okay, wow,all right, you still.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Are you stoked to go over there and like see what,
what sham.
I mean, you've already ran overthere before, so you saw what
it's never I haven't raced anyof you team bad utm events.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
But a couple years ago ryan raced occ and then we
did the tour to monterosa utmrrace, which that race is awesome
sounds cool but I'm I'm reallyexcited.
I think, um, I haven't done amountainous hundred K before and
I definitely feel like that'smore up my alley than I've.

(50:01):
I've basically done blackCanyon twice.
Both times have been wildlyunsuccessful, and then I raised
Kodiak last year and that wentactually pretty well.
So, um, but I think that themountainous stuff is more up my
alley.
I actually did Madeira a coupleyears ago, um the 50 mile which
didn't.
It didn't go.

(50:22):
It was fine, but, um, I'm moreexcited by the longer
mountainous stuff rather thanthe longer flatter stuff, stuff,
I would say.
So I'm intrigued.
I also I feel like my I train,like I run a hundred miles all
the time.
I don't, but I feel like I'm.
I'm ready to see what that willtranslate to Cause I, I feel

(50:45):
like I'm ready and capable ofrunning a good CCC, but I think
it'll be a little bit of.
We'll just see what happenssuper cool.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Now.
You went over there with ryanand you saw occ.
You did your own race as well.
What was like the atmosphere inchamonix is bananas right.
Like are you guys gonna stay insham proper, are you gonna stay
out of there?
Like what, what's the what'sthat plan like?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I don't know, we'll see.
I think ultra is getting someform of house, so I'll probably
just stay wherever they'restaying, but I think the
atmosphere is crazy.
But it's so fun, like I feellike I saw so many of my friends
there that I hadn't seen inyears, just from all over the US
, and that's pretty cool to belike oh, I don't see you at home
, but I see you in Chamonix, Iguess.

(51:33):
But yeah, it's really wild.
It's definitely a little bitoverwhelming.
So maybe the move will be stayoutside and then come in for a
couple of days.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
How does that work?
Does Altria plan to have?
I mean, because they're one ofthe bigger brands I would
imagine they plan to have agigantic presence there.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
I assume.
So I'm not totally sure.
There haven't been many detailsyet, but I think so.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Super cool, super cool.
Yeah, I don't know.
I feel like if I was to ever do100K which I never planned to
do, but the one would probablybe CCC.
That course looks so cool.
It looks really cool.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I'm really excited about it.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah, Super cool.
All right, so let's get into.
I have one more thing to askyou and I slip my mind up, Maybe
it'll come to me before the end.
Um, let's get into somequestions.
I'm curious to hear like oh,that's what it was with um
training.
Do you work with a coach?

Speaker 2 (52:20):
I do.
I recently switched coaches, um, I'm working with Rick Floyd,
who coaches MK, and Helen MiaFaulkner and a couple other
people Um, so yeah, that's beenRick's great.
I'm a big fan of Rick, um.
But yeah, I've worked with anumber of coaches over the years
, um, and I've enjoyed workingwith all of them.

(52:43):
So, just you know, recentswitch feel like a new stimulus
has been good for me.
Um, just a switch in traininghas been pretty helpful, um yeah
, what does your?

Speaker 1 (52:55):
if you don't want me asking, you can.
You could tell me as much ofthis as you want, but like, like
what you said.
You kind of said like I trainedmore like a hundred mile
athlete, like what.
What did you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Like more volume, or like I run really high mileage.
Um, so I, I would say um, overthe past like two or three years
I've been running pretty high.
Maybe three or four years Iguess I've been running pretty
high mileage.
Um, I usually run a hundred to115 miles a week, I would say um

(53:27):
, in the summer it's more, andyou know well, it kind of just
depends for et cetera.
But I run pretty high mileageand I really like it.
And that goes back to like Ireally just love running.
So if I can do more of it and mybody has knock on wood, um been
able to take a lot of that, um,I will, I'll do this, I'll do
as much as my body will let me.

(53:48):
But Rick has been good attrying to help me reign it in a
little bit and, you know, thinkabout quality over quantity a
little bit.
So, um, I definitely pulledback my training a little bit
this winter and I think it'sonly been beneficial.
So I don't, I don't know whatthe future will look like, but,
um, you know I do like I like torun high mileage and I hope I

(54:11):
can keep doing that for a while.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Dude, that's crazy.
A hundred to 115 miles a week,like wow, that's like way more
than I do.
That's impressive, oh my God.
Do you do like three structuredworkouts a week, or like two?

Speaker 2 (54:26):
structured workouts.
Like, how many workouts does heput in there for you?
Um, usually two ish.
Um, yeah, it's been, I guess,when I was training for big Alta
and then Lake Sonoma.
We're doing a little lessvolume, but I was doing two
pretty solid workouts week, um,and then sometimes it'll be like
one workout and then a long run.
That's harder, has some sort ofstimulus in there.

(54:48):
Um, but yeah, I would say likeone to two is probably more
standard, just cause I do run somuch it's hard.
To three would be uh, uh,unadvisable.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
What do you do for recovery?
Or you just like sit like atwork and just sit in the moods
and like no, I just sit here.
Wow, wow, do you eat like acrazy amount of calories Like
after your runs.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
I'm just so impressed because, like that's a lot of
miles yeah, um, I, yeah, I, Imean I eat a lot, um, and I
think I, I do, I I go to bedreally early.
I mean it's like it's always atrade-off, right.
Like I think that, um, actuallythis goes back to when I was my

(55:30):
first job out of college wasreally intense, like people work
80 hours a week type thing atthis company and people were
telling me, like you know,you're never going to be able to
run that much.
You're crazy.
Like good luck.
Ha ha Type thing and I was like,well, you just have to choose
what you care about.
And so I did.

(55:50):
I just kept running, Cause Iand I didn't really, you know,
you, you trade off something.
I wasn't sleeping very much atthe time or, like you know, not
really hanging out with thatmany friends outside of running,
like that type of thing.
So I think now it's similarLike I, you just make trade-offs
, like I pretty much work and Irun and that's about it.
So I think you know, and so Ithink just sitting and working

(56:14):
all day is it's mentallyexhausting, but it is.
You know.
I compare it to Ryan or some ofmy friends that work in the
restaurant industry.
Like they're on their feetevery night for seven to 10
hours, right, Like that's verydifferent than being able to
just kind of relax, at leastphysically, during the day.
But yeah, it feels to me like atrade-off more than anything.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Wow, that's amazing and impressive.
I can relate to that.
A lot People ask me like well,what do you do?
Do you like to do anything?
No, my life is pretty much.
It's pretty much the podcastrunning day job and then I go to
bed at like 8.30, 9 o'clock andyeah, and try to get nine hours
of sleep so I'm recovered.
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's not so glamorous but it'sfun.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
It is, it is, and you know, I think, like you don't
know, you don't know, a littlebit like maybe I'm really tired
all the time and I just don'trealize.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's sort of a relativeproblem.
Um, because I am tired, youknow like, and I probably and I
and I do I, to be fair likedoing a little bit less mileage

(57:24):
this winter, I have felt betterlike.
I feel like I can push harderin my workouts, like things like
that.
So I sure I am You're teeteringat some point, right, but I
feel like I'm, I'm at least likeon the good side of it for now.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Um, so you got to do what works for you.
Let me ask you do you, uh, doyou do any like strength and
plyo work as well?

Speaker 2 (57:48):
A little bit.
Um, yeah, I I couple of days aweek.
I do Minor Nothing.
Crazy though I was doing morestrength training last year, but
still like.
Another problem with living inTelluride is we have no gyms
that are affordable.
The cheapest gym is over $300 amonth, and so that's just not

(58:09):
going to happen or something.
Yeah, pretty much.
There's two gyms, one's $300 amonth and one's $400 a month, so
that's just out of the question.
So we're working on our homegym setup.
But a lot of my like.
If I had access to a gym Iprobably would do a little less
running and more strengthtraining, but it's you know,
it's a trade off you make yeah,no, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Are you a music person?

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Do you train with music at all?
Not really, to be honest.
I prefer podcasts.
I do a lot of podcasts when Irun what's your favorite pod.
Oh man Putting me on the spot.
Well, I really like Hard Forkoutside of running.

(58:54):
What is that?
It's like a tech podcast, um,by the new york times and it's
the two guys that host.
They're hilarious.
It's very insightful and it'shilarious.
So that's probably my favorite.
But you know I make the roundsin the running podcasts.
Gotta, gotta, keep, keep upwith the sport.
I'm definitely like a true fanof the sport, so I'm always just
looking for for running contentas well.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
oh, I'm gonna put you on the spot now.
You shouldn't have said thatwho's your, who's your, who's
your favorite runner?
Oh?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
gosh, I don't know, there's too many.
I will say, okay, I'll give you,I'll give you an answer.
Um, I feel like so.
When I was getting into running, or getting into ultra running,
it was like 2017.
And that was like the rise ofLucy Bartholomew and Courtney

(59:40):
DeWalter, um, and so those twohave always kind of held a
different.
My friend and I were just on aweekend trip, camping and
running, and we were by theWestern States trail and it
happened to be the the WesternStates training weekend and we

(01:00:02):
like passed both of them at thiscamp and I was like, oh my gosh
, so I don't know, I've alwaysreally I feel like they they're
good, they're good mentors inthe sport, so I've always looked
up to them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
That's a good one.
Now, you know, I was on thestreets of Silverton this summer
it was right after we gotmarried and we had like a bunch
of family in town.
We got married like outside ofSilverton.
Like just so happened to behard rock weekend and so I don't
know, I think we just took thefamily to go see silverton
because my grandparents werethere like all right, come see
this cool mountain to victorianmining town and yada, yada, yada
.
And like we're walking down thestreet and I, courtney, walked

(01:00:37):
right past me and I, it was likeright after she went hard rock
and I was like whoa, like that's, it's, I don't know.
Yes, like I don't even knowwhat it is about her, but like
just that star power that even Iwas like.
I was like very starstruck whenI saw her.
I was like wow, that's cool andshe's tinier real life than I
thought she would be.
So, yeah, it was, it wasinteresting, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Yeah, I really liked them both.
I appreciate Lucy's likehonesty and um in her path.
That's been pretty cool to see.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah, there's some amazing athletes in our sport.
Sorry to put you on the spotwith that one I've never asked
that before, but it's been inthe back of my head to ask
somebody so.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
I don't have a favorite, but at least I have a
reason for those, for those.
I guess that makes sense Allright.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
So I know you said you're less of a music person,
more podcast person.
Do appreciate the podcastanswer on that.
I'm just curious do you have ahype up song or a pump up song
that you're going to listen to?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Um, yeah, so basically, like all the music I
find is through Ryan, like hehe's a music guy.
I don't.
I just I I'm very um, my brainfocuses on one thing, and so I,
when I work, no noise, like zeronoise, I can't have, can't do
coffee shop work, I can't doanything like that.

(01:01:53):
No music, nothing, um, soanything I find is like all Ryan
, um, and last year was it lastyear, yeah, before Broken Arrow
he was like really obsessed withum, a Tear in glass animals.
We must have listened to thisfreaking song thousands of times

(01:02:14):
and I got really into it and I,I'm, I'm like a very um, what's
the right word?
Spatial, uh, sensory person, Idon't know, that's probably not
the right word, but like Iassociate music with places or
like experiences pretty strongly, and that was like the race

(01:02:35):
went really well.
I listened to that song like anumber of times right before it
started, and so I feel like,actually, ever since then that
has been my pump up song, justbecause it puts me like right
back to that day or thatexperience.
So, yeah, that's, that's theone for now, but I feel like
that's how my also my, my musictaste goes, like I'll have an

(01:02:55):
experience with one song andthen it just becomes I like
latch onto it and then I find anew one.
So I'm not very exciting in thein the music world.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
I do this, I recycle music all the time or I'll find
like a song I'll hear on, likeInstagram and like like I just
heard, like here I go Again byWhitesnake, which is like an 80s
or 90s song.
I've been playing that likenonstop.
Like this is amazing.
My wife's like what is wrongwith you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
So yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I gotta ask you a Stanford question and it's funny
like I don't.
I have a lot of friends havegone to like really good schools
.
I went to Miami and I justfound it to be like a rich kid
school.
I to be like a rich kid'sschool.
I wasn't that impressed.
Stanford is like one of the topinstitutions in the world.
What was it like as anundergrad going there?
Like does it live up to thehype for you?
Like did it?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Pretty legit, I think .
So the best part about Stanfordis people, and I think most
people say that about mostschools, but I truly believe it
and I generally believe you canget about the same education
most places.
You learn things.

(01:04:00):
You're in huge classes for themost part.
The people and the um eitherlike with the professors or with
classmates that really do makethe experience Um, and there is,
there is something specialabout Stanford.
People, I think, like supermotivated um, but usually like

(01:04:20):
for something other thanthemselves.
Like it a lot of it was justreally motivating to be
surrounded by these people,cause they really did.
Like it sounds so cliche, butlike it feels like they want to
do do something to help theworld.
Um, and a lot of them hadalready, and that's like the
crazy part is like, oh yeah,this person started this thing
and this person um, and so it'sjust like it's so motivating um

(01:04:43):
to be there and everyone is likeso genuine.
It's a really special place um,I don't know how they, how they
get that student body, butthey're really good at it.
Um, and I think it's really coolthat you live um.
So freshman year.
Um, the dorm assignments arerandom, I think, like the

(01:05:05):
athletes don't live together andlike you can't actually choose
where you live, so everyone isinterspersed, and so there's
really like you meet everyone.
And I think that's like areally cool part of it too,
because you know, I think Ireally most of my friends were
athletes and I thought that waslike really special as well,
just that you could get reallyclose to people who you who felt

(01:05:28):
a little bit.
You know, I think at someschools they're kind of do their
own thing, so I think that wasreally special yeah it was good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
It was a good place.
That's interesting.
So most of your friends wereathletes.
Do you still stay in touch withsome of the athletes Like I?
Some of my best friends inundergrad were swimmers.
Like one swim two.
I had a lot of swimmer friends.
You swim the 400.
I am almost like a 50 free.
But like it's funny now how theroles are reversed because I
wasn't an athlete in college Iknow I am now yeah, it's like it
kind of creates like a funnyconversation.
Like they're like like one'slike totally out of shape and

(01:05:59):
like kind of obese.
I'm like, dude, like what areyou doing?
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
yeah, it's kind of funny, that is funny um, it's
funny, I was friends with acouple runners not not a ton,
but um, it is a lot, a lot ofthe stanford runners that were,
you know, grant fisher.
I was at school with him and ohwow like elise was in my grade
like it's, you know, it's peoplelike that.
You're like, oh nope, they'restill still crushing it.

(01:06:24):
Still amazing, still amazing.
But yeah, it is.
It is funny.
There's like definitely adivergence.
That happens after college,like, and I, and I do think
Stanford I mean I'm going tocompletely oversimplify by
saying this but I feel like alot of the coaches do care about

(01:06:44):
, like, the longevity of peoplein their sport, so I do feel
like people have actually stayed.
I mean again like I'm totallyoversimplifying maybe running
specifically Like it seems likea lot of those people are still
doing the sport, which is prettycool, yeah, whereas it's easy
to burn out, I think aftercollege for a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Oh, for sure, For sure.
All right Back to running.
I got to ask you well, it couldbe running, Could it be in life
?
I'm just curious who inspiresyou?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Oh man, a lot of people struggling to think of
someone in particular.
I think I've always been mostinspired by people who are
multifac, are like multifacetedor have like multiple things
going on, and so, oh gosh, Iguess two examples sort of come

(01:07:41):
to mind, like one in the work onthe work side.
I've always been fascinated bylike who leads these companies
and who they are.
And, um, I have found that whenI look up at the different
companies I've worked for, like,the people who've always
inspired me have been the onesthat don't just work or like

(01:08:01):
they're not, they're really goodat their job and they're really
inspiring.
But they also, you know, theythey exercise or they do like
they have this deep hobbysomewhere else, or, you know, I
think like that pursuit ofexcellence, like with other
things in your life, has alwaysbeen um really inspiring to me,

(01:08:21):
and I, you know, I think there'sa number of runners um and
people that that embody that Um.
So I think those are, those arethe people that I've I've been
most inspired by like, those whohave been able to maintain like
two different parts of theirlife or like really excel in um
in different areas.

(01:08:42):
So that's really big but isbalance?

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I just gotta ask you is is balance hard for you?
Cause like you run so much andlike now you're running at it
like running at a professionallevel and you're I mean from I
did stock you on LinkedIn aswell, so I I kind of have an
idea of what you do.
So like obviously you've got abig girl job balancing both.
That's not like I listen, I'vegot a big boy job and I run and
I have a podcast, like I don'tknow how I do it and sometimes I

(01:09:08):
don't do it very well all threeof them.
So do you find it difficult todo, like to balance those?

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Yeah, definitely, and I think, um, yeah and I think
that's kind of what I was sayingearlier Like you do sacrifice
something, um, but it's, yeah,it's really hard.
I think like you have to.
You have to have a reason thatyou're doing like everything
you're doing, or else it's justnever going to stick.

(01:09:37):
Like what I was saying before,when I was my first job out of
college, like the people,everyone was like, oh yeah,
you're never going to run thatmuch, like, but I was like, no,
no, no, this is a priority.
Like this is, this is thenon-negotiable part, and I think
so.
I think just framing things as,like these are the
non-negotiables in my life andlike these other things are
important, but you know, I'mwilling to sacrifice here or

(01:10:01):
there versus like these are mytwo big rocks and these this is
what I'm going to focus on um,but yeah, it does mean like
something always falls to thewayside.
Like you know, I have, I have agood job and I run a lot.
But like my house is a mess,like you know, like there's
always something that's going toto fall and it's not.

(01:10:22):
You know, I wish my housewasn't a mess, but that's just
what's going to happen for now.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
The dishes suffer.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Yeah, the dishes suffer.
I feel your pain there but itis hard and then you know like
some days, yeah, you don't getvery good sleep, or some days
you, um, you know, there's,there's just something that
always goes yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
No, I think it's important.
I think it's really like thepoint of that question is just
to show the human side.
Like people see this amazingathlete on race day, right, and
they I don't think people puttwo and two together sometimes
oh yeah, they have a full-timejob and they have this going on
and they had that going on.
So yeah, it's.
It's the human side of it isinteresting.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Totally Well, and it's hard in this sport too,
where you kind of have to thingsthis is true Unless you want to
live in your van, then, yeah,it's not very easy.
Yeah, I mean, most people arehustling in some way, which is
super inspiring, and maybethat's, like I think that's part
of the reason why ultra runningin general is so inspiring.
Like, yeah, very few people arejust doing ultra running and I

(01:11:21):
think that the community bringsin that type of person that's,
like you know, super motivatedto go to TAM at 5.55 on, like a
Wednesday, you know, before workor whatever it is, and I it's
probably why it's like hard forme to find a specific person I
can think of that inspires me,because it's really just like

(01:11:44):
every person I interact with ona daily basis is like pretty
inspiring.
You know, like if those peopleweren't doing it, we probably
wouldn't be doing it either.
So I think just having thesecommunities and pockets of
people that um are reallymotivated by having the balance
or trying to figure out thebalance Cause that's we're all
just trying to figure it out Um,but yeah, actually the someone

(01:12:10):
who was, it was a work, it wasin the work context, but it was
like talking about like we don'thave balance, actually, like
life is inherently unbalanced.
But you just have to like findthe imbalance that you like,
cause, like my life isn'tbalanced, it's very unbalanced,
right, like most people aren'trunning this much and working,

(01:12:32):
so I think it's like, yeah, it'sjust like finding that balance
that you, that you're okay, theimbalance where you can function
right.
Yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
So now, as a professional in the sport, I had
to ask you this too, becauseyou kind of we kind of like I
kind of glossed over and saidsomething about I don't know
living in your van or this, thatand the other.
What do you?
What do you think of theprofessionalization of the sport
?
Like you think it should getmore professional or do you
think it should stay moregrassroots?
This is a tough one because,like, I've wrestled with this a
lot and I just always like tohear what other think I would

(01:13:08):
love for it to stay grassroots,like my favorite races are the
ones that are super homegrown.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I think a lot of people share that sentiment.
But you can years ago, when,like, dossio was sponsoring UTMB
or whatever, and there was alot of pushback because that's a

(01:13:35):
car company and that doesn'thelp the environment, and it
does feel like there is this bigwe're at odds in this sport
where, like, the reality is thatif you want the sport to grow,
you need investment, and itmight not be the investment you
want, um, but, like, if you wantthe sport to grow, then you
need it.
So it is this, I don't know,we're at this really interesting

(01:13:58):
, uh, tipping point, I think,where, um, the sport should
continue to grow, and I hope itdoes because I, you know, people
are getting into it.
It's such a great, you know, welove it and we should share
that with other people, right?
But, um, it is going to changeand so I don't know how you
balance those things, but I, I,I feel like it's going to have

(01:14:22):
to commercialize a little bitfor the version that you know,
like, if we want to become asuper, um, you know, a sport
that can pay people well, or, or, or any of these things.
Like, if we really wanted todevelop into a sport that is out
there, then it has to happen,um, but I hope.

(01:14:43):
I hope that at least like apocket of it stays the same yeah
.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I don't think, like youthink of, like I don't know
because, like you're a san juan.
Uh, you know you live in thesan juans.
So, like you see hard rock,which is so grassroots, right,
and it's like it's, it's changed, it's grown a little bit like,
but it's obviously becausethey're permitting it.
You don't get more people but,the.
The fanfare has has changed andgrown, but like it, still
remains the soul of what it is,so it's like.

(01:15:07):
I always looked at our sportlike as a soul sport in a lot of
ways, like I just don't see,like you see, that speedy and
fast component of it, yes, andlike sub ultra and golden trail
and things like that.
But there's certain aspects,aspects of the sport that really
have not changed over the years.
So, yeah, I don't know, I agreewith what you're saying.
I just don't.
I don't know.
It's a, it's a roll of the diceand wake where things go.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
It's really hard.
I think also we're seeing it.
One specific example isactually there's this race in
Telluride which is maybe thebest race ever.
It's called the Telluridemountain run.
More people should do it but,um, they came up, they're having
a permitting issue because thetown of Telluride instead wants
to have a bluegrass festivalthat weekend.

(01:15:51):
Um, and it's probably going topush the race out, which is
really sad.
And then and I know this islike a slight tangent, but um,
it's the same idea of, like,this small grassroots race in
the community doesn't mean verymuch to the, to the the town,
because it's not very lucrativefor the town.
But we have a million festivals, we have a million, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
There's a bluegrass festival in every town, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
So it is this like there's always going to be this
pull of.
How do you keep something trueto its roots?
I guess the comparison I'mmaking is like to the town, like
how do you keep Telluridegenuine with these events that
showcase the mountains orshowcase, you know, this part of
the community with also likeyeah, at the end of the day,

(01:16:41):
you're a town that's purelybased on tourism, like I don't
know, and I want, I want thoselike Telluride mountain runs, my
favorite race, pretty much.
Like how to I don't know, Idon't know how you like make it,
unless the spork gets reallybig and then it becomes really
lucrative, like the UTMB style,but then you're like, well then
that kills it.
So I don't have, I'm justadding more complication, I

(01:17:04):
think but no, no, I appreciateit.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
I actually had reached out.
I'm very familiar with this.
I reached out to the racedirector when this information
came out and tried to get him onto see if he wanted to come on.
But they didn't want to talkabout it because I guess there
was some hearing or something.
Yeah, there was.
How did that go?
The hearing didn't didn't gowell yeah, it's.
It's just a shame like I've likelong wanted to bring like a vk
to tell your ride, becausethat's like one of the few
places in the country where youcould probably put like a proper
one.
Yeah, yeah, but I don't knowlike it'd be cool to week like I

(01:17:34):
don't know why I get rid ofthat race.
That race is so perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
It's one of the most full-on mountain races in the
country outside of the rut andit's like damn, like yeah, it's
really upsetting to see so it isreally upsetting, yeah, and
we'll probably keep seeing likesimilar stories, um, which is
like, yeah, is it good forsports, bad for the sport, I
don't know.
It's not good for the community.
Maybe it's good for the sportall in, but that doesn't

(01:17:56):
necessarily.
I guess that's what I'm tryingto say, like things that are
good for the sport might not begood for the small.
You know the grassroots versionof it.
So what do you prioritize, thesport or the feeling?
Then you change the feeling Idon't know it's tricky.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
It's tricky now, but these are good conversations.
I have you know, um, all right.
So last question I always asksomebody that, like I always ask
like a stupid question.
At the end it's usually bigfoot, aliens, ai, I gotta ask you
because you're a tech persontell me me about your take on AI
.
Do you think it's going tobecome our evil robot overlords
or do you think it's just goingto be a tool we'll use in the
next few years?

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Oh man, you're doing the hard questions.
I'm pretty skeptical, I'mpretty cynical on technology in
general.
In high school I had asmartphone smartphone and then I
got rid of it because I waslike this is ruining our friend
group, like people would just beSnapchatting like across the
table.
I was like I can't do this.

(01:18:56):
So I'm very cynical.
And then, sure enough, likehere we are with phones and
phone addictions and attentionissues.
So I kind of I don't know.
I'm pretty I'm I'm worried thatAI will take over like quite a
bit Um, I don't know thetimeframe it's going to happen
on um or what it's really goingto look like.

(01:19:18):
Um, and there's always likegood and bad.
Right, like social media isgood, we have people are able to
promote themselves, but then wealso have the flip side, which
is that it's bad for mentalhealth or whatever.
So I, I assume AI is going tofollow a similar trajectory,
where it's going to be reallypowerful and really good in a

(01:19:38):
lot of ways, but then there'sgoing to be unintended
consequences.
That and those are those arewhat worry me.
Just, you know, job marketthings like that.
I, I, I don't know, I don'tknow what it's gonna look like,
but I'm I'm skeptical same same.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as to say like evil robot
overlord, yet, but like no it'smore so, just like damn, it's
gonna take everybody's job andlike what do we do after that?
That's kind of that's a bummer,like it's not just a bummer,
that's kind of horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
so so it's definitely just going to change the way we
live, which we've already.
I feel like even in ourlifetime we've already seen
people like change the way theylive multiple times.
So it's just going to beanother iteration of that.
I think True.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
True.
Well, I think it's a good placeto end it.
Listen, lindsay.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
It was a great conversation,definitely looking forward to
the future and everything you'regoing to accomplish this summer
, and thanks so much.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Appreciate it.
What'd you guys think?
Oh man, what a fun episode.
I want to thank Lindsay so muchfor coming on the podcast and
having a conversation.
Really appreciative that shecame on the pod to let me help
tell her story.
So really fun.
Guys, before we get going, hopon Instagram.
You could best support Lindsayby giving her a follow on

(01:20:55):
Instagram.
You could find her at Lunderscore Allison.
That's L underscore A L L I S ON.
Hop on Instagram, give her afollow, send her a DM, let her
know what you thought about theepisode.
I'm sure she'd love to hear um,all the words of encouragement
before she embarks on her um,while she kind of already
embarked, but as she before sheembarks on her big 2025 summer
season, I should say um, in abuildup to CCC.

(01:21:16):
So, uh, guys, before you getgoing, if you enjoy this episode
, please give us a five-starrating and review on Apple,
spotify or YouTube or whereveryou guys get your podcast.
Last but not very least, thisepisode was brought to you by
Ultimate Direction USA.
Some big things coming down thepike from Ultimate Direction.
We just dropped our new racesix liter vest and ultra 12
liter vest Two amazing productsto the product line that we're

(01:21:38):
super excited to bring out Twobeautiful aesthetic colorways as
well, that I was super pumpedon.
When I say aesthetic, I meanlike this beautiful onyx and
green and a blue and white vest,which just dropped as well.
So, guys, hop on ultimatedirectioncom.
If you're interested in one ofthese, check them out.
I also modeled it, which ispretty, pretty dope.

(01:21:58):
But yeah, use code steep stuffpod for 25% off.
That purchase, an alreadyaffordable priced vest, just got
more affordable with your 25%off.
So, thanks so much, guys.
Lots of fun stuff coming downthe pike.
Ryan Becker was just on the pod, so that episode is going to be
dropping next week, as well asRachel Tomajek I always butcher

(01:22:22):
her last name, sorry, rachel,but yeah, lots of cool pods
coming out in the next few weeksand some big things coming down
the pike for Broken Arrow andSoonapy.
Thanks, guys, thank you.

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