September 18, 2025 • 38 mins
The mountain looms ahead, a vertical challenge that tests not just physical endurance but mental fortitude. "It's just you're constantly wondering if you're going too hard and if you're going to die," says one elite runner, capturing perfectly why uphill racing has become such a compelling discipline within trail running.
We dive deep into the world of vertical challenges, exploring America's Ultimate Challenge at Pike's Peak, where over 2,500 runners from 46 different states and eight foreign countries gather annually to push their limits. The conversation takes us across continents as we compare the established European uphill racing scene with its growing American counterpart, examining what makes these pure tests of human endurance so addictive for those who attempt them.
From the grueling Bar Horn race in Switzerland with its staggering 10,500 feet of vertical gain to the community-focused Mount Ashland Hill Climb, we explore different race formats and what makes each unique. Elite runners share their strategies for conquering these monsters – from specialized nutrition approaches that favor liquid carbohydrates to equipment choices like modified road shoes that maximize efficiency on the climbs.
Perhaps most fascinating is the psychological component of uphill racing. The successful athlete must master the art of measured effort, knowing when to push and when to conserve, while constantly battling the inner voice that questions if they're going too hard or not hard enough. As one runner puts it, "You know this is a test against yourself... everybody that's out here is doing it and everybody's testing themselves."
Whether you're a seasoned mountain goat or curious about why anyone would willingly subject themselves to thousands of feet of continuous climbing, this conversation reveals the pure, primal satisfaction that comes from starting at the bottom and finishing at the top – testing your limits against gravity itself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
They all start here and make their way towards the
clouds.
It's time.
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen.
We are live and talk Pike'sPeak and just see what's been
going on.
You just got back from the rut,right?
How was the rut this past?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
week.
Yeah, yeah, it was good.
I kind of have been like reallyloading my schedule in with
racing, as you probably saw, andso the rut was kind of a last
minute throw in, kind of if itwas going to feel good or not.
Definitely didn't feel amazing,but it was.
I love that race and thatweekend like such a cool
experience.
Every time I'm there, um, and Ijust love getting to be part of
(02:25):
it.
You know it's like, aside frombroken arrow, we don't have many
big like running, I guessmammoth too, but I've never been
to mammoth, um, but it wassuper fun either way, really
good training, um, and I cameout of it kind of being like you
know, if this is my first likenot great race of the season,
then I'm very lucky to have hada good season.
So it was good.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, we're going to talk aboutall of your experiences, but
one thing I do.
I got a question for you aboutthe right.
Um, was it weird that they cutit short?
Like for the vertical like,would you have rathered it gone
up to whatever 4,000 feet orwhatever up?
To 3000, something Like I thinkso.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Yeah, I mean in a normal year I mean it was.
It's hard to tell because thisyear, like from the gun, I was
like, okay, my body's a littletired, like I need to chill, but
uh, every vk I've done in theus has gotten cut short this
year because, um, broken air.
I guess it was an ascent, sothat was a bummer.
Um, and I'm all for like,getting to summit, I love when
you get to finish on the top ofsomething and so definitely
(03:19):
bummer.
But I'll be back, I'll do itagain, for sure.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
What did they do?
Did they like you guys finishedand then did they cause I, they
didn't do a live stream thisyear, which was I was really
bummed about, um, but like, didyou guys just like stop like on,
on, like the side, and thenhave to walk down?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
or yeah, oh you, essentially we had to descend
like 800 feet down 28k two yearsago, um, and same thing
happened Like they were alsoworking on the tram then and so
I've never summited lone peak,which is crazy.
But we basically descendedwhere I descended that first
year, which is like this stoop,like super steep, like rocky
(03:55):
kind of dusty area, but it wasfine, cause you know, I got to
talk to people the whole timeand met some people, um, but
yeah, it was definitely crazyhaving to like descend 800 feet
to the chairlift or like walk onlike a flat cat track to get to
the chairlift.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Interesting.
If you don't mind me asking, isit?
Is it super far from Jackson oris it like just as a few hours
right?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
No, it's like three hours three and a half to the
base of big sky resort.
Um, it's like four to Bozeman.
I like to think that Jackson iskind of like the perfect
epicenter, because it's likefour hours from everything,
every big mountain, you know,four hours from park city and
salt Lake.
Uh, from Bozeman, um, I guessit's not close to Colorado, but
from all those other States it'sclose.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Do?
Colorado is so far fromeverything.
I so I drove out.
I was on your neck of the woods, uh, for grand Targi.
Uh, I went out this year andraced it and I was like, dude,
this is so far, this is like a12.
I was like, nah, I was in thecar, I think, for like nine
hours or something like that.
So it's not, yeah, it's notclose from Colorado, but it's an
amazing place.
I'm not going to lie, Ishouldn't say it on the day I
(05:02):
drove home, like I went homesaturday after the race and like
I was going over the pass, Iwas like astonished by the
amount of people, like some oflike the trail parking lots.
It was like yo, this is a lotof people, I mean.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Granted, it was labor day weekend, but it was yeah,
this is crazy you'd still think,though I don't know, late in
the summer, you'd hope itwouldn't be crazy yeah but I
think it's just starting to slowdown in areas now, um, but even
then, like there'll be dayswhen it's rainy and I like go
run up the resort and it's likethe trails packed, so I'm like
well really even at the resortdamn yeah, I think it's just
because there's like differenttimes of the year.
(05:35):
You know, like during the summerit's like when a lot of
families can come in.
Right now, this is when a lotof people who are like I want
the, the quiet, and they come,but then it's like not that
quiet.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So is the snow.
The snow should fly pretty soonfor you guys, Right?
It's like I know it snows alittle bit earlier up there than
it does down here.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, it definitely has some of the
tops of the Tetons.
I've gotten a little bit ofsnow I, which is like good and
bad.
I've obviously super excitedfor ski season but I had just,
with the way my season worked, Iwas in Europe for a good
portion of that like dry periodfor the Tetons and so I had some
.
It wasn't super set, but like Ireally wanted to do the picnic
this year and try to set thatwomen, I wasn't like completely
(06:13):
tied to it, but if it worked out, it worked out.
But there's snow in the Grandright now and so I don't know,
we'll see what happens.
Like I'd still love to just godo like a fast, grand effort,
but uh, it gets pretty icy upthere and when it gets snowy and
icy it's not as like, not assafe.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I would think to do a faster effort and so if we get
a mild October, maybe, but it'shard to say, I don't know.
It's that's a tricky one.
Um, all right, let's, let's getinto it.
Let's talk about Europe, yourEuro trip, cause I know you've
raced over in Slovenia, did you?
You were at the trail team campas well in Germany, right or no
?
Yeah, I was, so you did do both.
(06:47):
Talk about that.
Like what was the?
What was it like going fromthis big trail team camp the
week before and then going torace an uphill in Slovenia?
Were you, were you tired goinginto this race?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And like I luckily had a pretty like awesome Europe
experience.
Not that I haven't not had oneof those before, but, um, you
know, it was definitely adifferent year for me, going in
and focusing mainly on uphillraces, um and like uphill
adventures, and so when I got toEurope, it's like the land for
uphill people pretty much, andso it was hard to not go
overboard.
(07:17):
Um so, cause I did that first Iguess backtracking I did that
first race in Switzerland, um,the bar bar horn.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What is it?
Turtamontal or something likethat.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
It starts in this town called Turtman probably not
pronouncing it right, but um,uh.
And so, starting there, whichwas a race, I had 10,500 feet of
gain all uphill, um, and so,like, starting on that note, and
then, quickly, I went into aweek at Chamonix and so it was
like I just was doing a lot ofuphill and I actually ended up
having my biggest week ever.
Unintentionally, of like, Igained 32,000 feet of climbing
(07:49):
one week and I was like, okay,and I was really lucky because
my body, it seemed to have holdthat, like it's held out.
I like just started feeling alittle bit tired, which is I'm
very lucky for that and so.
But so I wasn't originallygoing to go to um Sylvania, I
was just kind of like, didn'treally think about that, didn't
really?
You know, I didn't want to justgo somewhere just for a small
VK.
I didn't quite realize it waslike an uphill, you know, big
(08:12):
effort, um, not that VKs aresmall, but just like time-wise
and traveling.
And so then I was like, okay,I'm going to go to the Germany
camp, no matter what, um and nomatter what.
And then I saw Andy's email andhe was like anyone want, you
know, last call for the racesand I was like, yeah, absolutely
, like I would love to.
I saw that it was this six mile, 4,000 feet of gain, and I was
(08:33):
like this is perfect, this iswhat I've been doing.
And so I went and it was.
Yeah, it was such a coolexperience to like A be with
Americans again for the firsttime, like I hadn't been around
any Americans, and like, whichis great.
I mean it's awesome, but still,it was cool to like be with all
my friends and then traveltogether to this country that,
like none of us have been to,and it was absolutely amazing,
like.
So I think everyone's beensaying you know, slovenia is
(08:55):
really underrated, it's going toget big, and I can see why,
cause it was pretty spectacular,it was legit, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Let me backtrack a little bit, cause I got.
I got ahead of myself askingabout the trail team stuff, but
I do want to talk to you aboutyour performance at the bar horn
Second place, obviously.
What was it like?
Cause that was, you know that'sa crazy race 10,000 feet of
vertical, like how low do youstart Like?
Do you start like?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
basically at sea level, and then go up, like
where, like what's the bottomand what's the top?
This is crazy Cause I wasthinking about this the other
day.
I was like where, whatelevation did we start?
Because I don't, you know,switzerland can be kind of high,
but I think if we started atlike 2000 feet maybe, um,
nothing crazy, uh.
But then, yeah, it was actuallyanother crazy day because there
was weather at the top, and sothe day before they were like
we're not going to be summitingUm, which I was really bummed
(09:42):
about, because not only was thislike a cool race, but like a
really cool feat, you know, toto summit Barharm, the, the
tallest hikeable peak in theAlps, and um.
And so I kind of went into thatday being like all right, well,
I'm going to go to where itstops, which is still like 9,000
feet.
But then I was like, if I'mfeeling good, I'm going to
(10:06):
summit either way, like I justreally want to get to the top of
this Um, and so I wasdefinitely pretty nervous, but I
think, going into it, I justknew that, it being my biggest
day ever running vert wise, nomatter what, it would have just
been like an awesome day, and soI think for me that works
really well mentally, justhaving that, like you know, that
pressure.
Obviously I'm competitive, butalso just like, go have fun, see
what your body can do.
And I honestly think like itwas a crazy early start.
I was just like half asleep andthen when we started, I just
(10:28):
realized my body felt prettygood, but there was just no real
pressure at the beginning,which I really liked.
It was, like, you know, I kindof just stuck with people and if
someone moved ahead I'd be likeall right, they're having a
good like moment right now.
Like, just keep doing what youcan do.
Um, and you know, after a fewhours, all of a sudden you've
gained like 9,000 feet, or Iguess we ended at like 8,600
(10:49):
feet of climbing and, um, whichwas just so cool, like it was
just super spectacular.
It was a little bit cloudy, buthonestly the weather was great.
Um, and then when we got to thetop, I was just like yeah, that
was awesome.
Obviously, I was really tired.
Didn't quite realize as howtired I was until I like
gathered this group of likeSwiss boys who were just like I
(11:10):
was like I think I'm going to goto the top and they're like
sure, like we'll come with you,um, and so then we all went to
the top, which was like one ofthe hardest things I've ever
done.
I truly like did not die untilwe were halfway up that pitch
and I like call my mom, becausethey like kind of went ahead,
because I was like go ahead, youguys got it.
And I was like mom, I'm goingto die out here.
Like she was like stop beingdramatic and like get to the top
(11:32):
of that mountain and come backdown.
Of course, I mean like shorts,it's like snowing, I just but,
um, we did it, which was awesomeand still like just an awesome
experience, and did it likerelatively fast because I was
just like booking it behind someSwiss boys, but it was super
cool.
Didn't get to see the view, butto know that I just climbed
like 10,500 feet was prettyawesome.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Dude, I don't think I've ever had a 10,000 foot day.
I'm trying to think about this.
I'm like, wow, that's nuts.
Yeah, that's really great.
How did the race unfold for you?
I mean, obviously you got onthe podium super like fantastic
finish, were you?
Were you in any battles?
Well, like, how did that unfold?
Or were you just kind of alonetrying to catch one, and three
was behind you?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah, I think beginning it was kind of we were
all close together a little bit.
But again I just tried to belike we have 10,000 feet of
climbing ahead of us, Likethere's not.
I didn't really want to be race, Like I'm racing myself,
obviously and I'm pushing myself, but I didn't want to be
thinking about the other girls.
So I guess in the beginning,like I would say, around we had
climbed like 3000 feet.
At this point we were kind ofall in a little circle, Um, and
that the first girl had kind ofgone ahead, but she was in my
(12:37):
vision.
And then there was like thesecond and third girl I guess it
was second and then me, therewas like four of us who were
kind of around each other and itwas a little bit of a battle in
there.
I do remember at one point,like second and third kind of
were around me and like she,like one girl, passed me and in
my head I kept just saying, likeyou know you have time.
Honestly, I went into the daybeing like I'm happy with the
(12:58):
top five, Like just rememberthat you're doing something
really big today.
You've never done this before.
Top five would be awesome.
So I kind of just kept tellingmyself that and just put my head
down and kept grinding, washaving a good time and slowly,
like just caught up with the twoother girls who had passed me
with first still like in mysights, which was awesome, and
then there's kind of this likeflat section I want to say flat,
(13:19):
but like the flattest, like Iguess, a mile of kind of rolling
, which was a little bit of abummer because at this point,
like we've just been likecooking pretty hard up to this,
and so my stomach started kindof hurting because you know the
stomach thing that I have, it'slike the flats can be painful
sometimes when you're breathingthat hard, when you're working
that hard, and so I definitelyhad to slow down a bit on that
(13:42):
part, which was a bummer Cause Ifeel like as a track runner,
that can sometimes be like my,my skill, Um, but I could still
see the first place girl.
But at this point I was kind oflike I'm really happy with how
it's going.
I don't want to like have tostop because I push and, you
know, get sick or something, Um.
So I kind of was just like allright, like I just have to wait
to fuel again until we startclimbing, Cause then my stomach
won't hurt as much.
(14:02):
And uh, so we got to that.
Like you know, you have like amile of like rolling and then
all of a sudden you're gaininganother, like 5,000 feet, and so
I immediately was like, allright, we'll be good.
You know, we got to that part,Um, and that last part was super
hard.
Everyone else had poles, Ididn't.
And I was like, oh, typicalAmerican, Like it'll be fine.
I wish, I wish I had pulled sobadly.
(14:23):
My calves were in so much pain,but it was still really fun.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So oh my gosh, so cool, so cool, was it?
Uh like, was it the entire waypretty much runnable, or was
there a lot of power?
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Beginning, I would say.
But it's interesting, causewhen you have a race that big,
I've I learned from theEuropeans that they, they do
really lean into that powerhiking or that slow, you know,
like working into it, versuslike blowing up in the beginning
and dying, um, but I would sayit was very runnable in the
beginning and then the end isobviously just like straight up
and some technical sections and,um, yeah, like some running
(14:57):
sections, but I would say likeat that point you're pretty
tired and so the power hikingwas more efficient.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I like it.
I like it.
The reason I ask is becauselike I kind of draw like a
comparison between that and likealmost like a Pike's peak.
Like it's a Pike's peak isyou're probably not hiking until
, I don't know, just above aframe or somewhere in the a
frame range if you will, justbecause of how high up it is.
Um, so I guess there's a lot ofdecent like crossover then,
even though Pikes Peak istechnically pretty fast until
you start to hit the higheraltitude stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, so how?
Um, I don't know what are youthinking, how do you feel going
into this race?
What's the stoke level?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
I'm excited.
I mean I think I've done a lotof training that has led into
this.
Um, definitely, like, obviouslythere's some nerves, having
been a little bit tired at therut and just knowing the season
I've put on my body, but I know,with all of the base that I
have and just really focusing onrecovery this week, I can kind
(15:55):
of bounce back.
I'm excited because I just feellike it's kind of a perfect
combination of everything I'vebeen doing and I think Pikes is,
yeah, it'll be like my kind ofsecond time up that high, which
is crazy, but like Wyomingdoesn't have any 14ers and um,
and the only other one wasShasta.
I skied this winter or spring.
Um, but yeah, I'm reallyexcited, like it's, I think
(16:15):
it'll be super fun.
I have a lot of friends thatI've met throughout the year who
are uphill athletes, who aregoing, and so it's been like
this big accumulation of likewatching all of us train and get
to this one spot and getexcited about it.
Um, obviously I have nervesgoing into everything, but again
trying to have that similarmindset of just like first time
doing it, like my body is youknow exactly where it needs to
be, and just like having funpushing it and really like
(16:38):
focusing on what I can do and,um, I think it should be good.
Have you looked at any splits atall?
Or are you kind of just goingto go off, feel, um, I have.
I talked to some people whohave done it, uh, and, like you
know, I'm going to do a littlebit more about this week.
I try not to be too likethinking about it too much
before, um, but I have looked atsome splits and kind of like
when the golden trail did it andwhen you know other people have
(17:00):
done it, and so I kind of havea relative idea, but I
definitely, as the days getcloser, want to look a little
bit more into that, especiallyfor fueling and stuff.
So, but, yeah, I know I didhear that it can be definitely
fast in the beginning and thenthe end you kind of hit that
like really high.
And that's when peopledescribed it as like you power
hike and then you run it likethere's that rock, I'm going to
(17:21):
run to that rock, that you powerhike and then you run it Like
there's that rock, I'm going torun to that rock and then which
I?
think will be awesome.
I mean, yeah, it's, and that'swhat I love, Like that's what's
been really fun for me, thosedeath marches.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So it's a yeah, it's, it's a good no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I learned from bar horn that starting slow was key.
Like I just started, I was sochill, Like obviously you're
working, but in no world do Iwant to be feeling like I'm
dying because you have such alike.
You have so much race left andyou can really gain on people.
Like people can be minutesahead and just drop.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So oh yeah, people, people die.
Yeah, like there's a good story.
As francesco poopy, the guyswere telling me, like francesco
poopy, in like 2023, likeliterally died on the side of
the trail and like came back tolife and like started catching
people behind, like, uh, once hegot above tree line, like
there's, there's there's somestories of people like having
really tough races and thenresurrecting from the dead, so
(18:31):
it can be yeah yeah, let's talknutrition like what is.
How has your nutrition strategykind of changed, as you've been?
I mean, it's all been uphillraces this year right, so it's
almost you know fueling is veryimportant because of how much
you're burning, especially withall uphill.
Have you adjusted your fuelingstrategy for stuff like that?
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Or, yeah, I think that in the past and why a lot
of this stomach stuff happened.
As I mentioned before, it wasjust my not like, it's just
inability to fuel properly.
It's really challenging comingfrom being a track athlete where
they really teach you nothing,but I've quickly learned that
like liquid carbs and fuel mixeslike that are the A the easiest
on the stomach but also justthe best way you can get carbs
(19:12):
in.
You know, you can like reallypack those mixes in and like sip
on a bottle and have 90 gramsof carbs right there.
And I'm really thirsty.
When I run, I'm not reallyhungry and so I have like loved
doing that.
I'll always bring some.
I have my untapped maple, mynutrition sponsor.
I'll bring those and those areawesome.
But a lot of the times I'llhave like their drink mix or
just like some high carb drinkmix that, um, you know is works
(19:37):
with the stomach.
But I just feel like it's theonly like I actually kind of
crave it during the races andit's just easy to like sip
something and then have a ton ofcarbs in your system versus
like gels and goos are just thehardest things in the world for
me to eat when I'm running.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, it's not fun.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I've tried, like there's some people who can do
it, but I will.
I don't know if I'll ever bethat person.
I used to do like the Mortongels and I just it just was not
awesome for me.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I just started messing with precision.
I guess I like the precisiontaste better than the Martins.
It's like a texture thing.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
No, I agree, and I think precision might be a
little cheaper.
I don't know.
It's all about like that hydrogel component, obviously, and
like what protects the stomachthe most.
But yeah, I've heard greatthings about precision too, so
yeah, oh, good stuff there.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
One thing I didn't get a chance to talk to you
about I think you did it.
It was either right it must'vebeen right after we had our last
conversation was winning theMount Ashland hill climb.
Talk to me about that race,cause that's like a legendary
race.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, it was super awesome, honestly, like such a
great way to open the season,especially because it was just
such a community oriented racebut so competitive still, but
still just like I really youknow after having raced golden
trail a lot, and these likereally high profile race, high
profile but like very focused onthe elites.
I just forgot how much I missed.
Like what made trail runningtrail running is the community,
(20:59):
um, and everyone was so open andwelcoming and I was definitely
nervous because, again, that waslike I my first uphill, like a
long uphill race, um, and itit's very runnable.
I would say I pretty much ranthe whole time, which was a
whole different sort of painbecause I'd never done that
before and that is totallydifferent.
Um, like it's uphill gradewhere it's like two flat test
(21:22):
power hike but you could run itand that like really killed me a
little bit, but it was a reallyawesome experience to start
with, um, yeah, and it was.
You know, I was largely alonepretty much that whole race and
then at the very end I kind oflike thought I had this gap.
That was good, I was startingto bonk a little bit and then at
the very end there's like youhit the mountain and then you
(21:43):
basically have a thousand feetof climbing and the girl, like
the second place girl, was rightbehind me and I was just like
at this point I kind of had amoment where I was like, well,
this is it.
You know, I'm so tired and so Ikind of just like put my head
down and was like, well, if shepasses, she passes.
I think we had like 50 feetleft of climbing.
We were I just like stayed onher, that's all I did, and I
(22:06):
just like had this final surgethat she just didn't have.
Um, and she was like afterwardstalking to me about it, she's
like where'd that come from?
I was like I'm a track runner.
I'm a track runner.
I just I pushed as hard as Icould and won, which was really
awesome.
Um, but just such an incrediblerace.
I mean the the race director'sson is one of the most insane
(22:27):
runners.
I mean I forget how old he is,maybe like 10, 11, and at like
halfway through the race, thiskid comes by the most beautiful
form I've ever seen, passes meand I'm like, oh, he must be
like one of the walkers whostarted early and it's just like
a kid who's just like running,you know.
No, he like got like third, Idon't know insane, so, um, but
(22:48):
it was a really cool bigcommunity of people who are also
really into ski mountaineering,um, just because they live
around the volcanoes and stuff,and so I met a lot of really
cool people.
And, uh, I met a woman whowe've been in touch since she's
going to be racing pikes too,and so that was a really really
awesome race.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So cool so cool.
Is it?
Does it start in like town andthen like go up to the,
basically go up to I guess their, their local, like ski mountain
?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So it starts like and it's likereally cute little nature area,
kind of like right on theoutskirts of town.
You basically start in thispark and then you run maybe like
half a mile on asphalt and thenyou turn and you're pretty much
on dirt road the whole way andthey also start the bikers like
10 minutes before us.
You know, the whole race islike bikers versus runners.
(23:33):
So it's pretty cool because thewhole time, even being alone, I
had people cheering for me,cheering for people.
It was pretty cool and likethere'd be some moments where
I'd be really tired, but thenI'd see the bikers just grinding
and I was like, well, at leastthat's not me right now.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
It's also fun to catch the bikers.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, but it did make me kind of want to do
it Like I was like I kind ofwish they did a year where it
was like one day is the bike,one day is the run, and then try
to see, like have that overallcategory of course.
But uh, yeah, it was just likethere were so many people out
there, um, and they all justlove it.
You know, anywhere you go intown, people were just like, oh,
why are you here?
And I'd be like, oh, theAshland Hill clan Like, oh, my
(24:10):
gosh, like love that race.
So I uh have been tellingeveryone about it.
I'm like that's one to do forsure.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Interesting.
I got to ask you this Causeyou've had such an interesting
dichotomy this year of you'llget like the whole spread of
American races on the uphillscene and then you've done quite
a few now, like including aWRMA final race.
That's like a European.
What do you like better?
Like the European scene, causeit's different versus the
American scene.
Like what, what?
What do you enjoy more?
(24:36):
I know this is a hard question,but what do you enjoy more and
like what do you think we canadopt from the Europeans that we
can bring into the Americanscene for more uphill racing?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, I mean, I think I just love it.
Yeah, it's, they're verydifferent, um.
I think what's really fun aboutthe European races right now is
that it's just there's so manyum, and they just have it really
dialed down, but you're notnecessarily like every us race.
I feel like like you're kind ofnot that it's a bad thing, but
racing the same people, or likeit's like there's not a lot of
(25:07):
you're not like meeting a ton ofnew people because it's like
there's only so many Americanraces, whereas in the, you know,
switzerland, I like showed upknowing nobody and I'm obviously
a bit of an extrovert, likelove to talk, and so I just end
up meeting all these people andthey're just so excited to have
Americans there because we justdon't.
You know we have these very setfew races we'll go to or we
(25:29):
prioritize, which is, you know,there's nothing bad about UTMB,
but there's so many other coolraces in Europe that I feel like
get overlooked.
And obviously I think a big partof what the US could do is
bringing more uphill races thataren't just VKs.
You know like we only have VKs,which is awesome, but there's
like plenty of air.
You know, the rendezvous hillclimb is just now getting bigger
.
It's just like bringing in, youknow, some of the pros and um,
(25:51):
it's such a cool race exactly,and people love it and it's like
that grind.
It's really what trail runningis about.
It's the ultimate test of justgrinding the whole time.
Um, and there's so many placesin the US where races like that
could exist.
Someone was telling me thiswoman I met at Ashland that
there's this run in Palm Springs.
I think that goes to the top ofsome peak and it's like 7,000
(26:14):
feet, san Jacinto, maybeSomething like that.
And there's a trend that'll takeyou back down.
There's so much access to it.
I think we have the access toit.
I just think because it's liketrail running is so much newer
in the US, we're really likekind of just getting into that
(26:34):
like sub ultra scene almost, andlike we're not quite adding
onto the uphill scene yet, andyou can totally see that as like
we don't use poles but all ofthe smart Europeans do, and I
can see why now because, oh mygosh, they help so much.
I got to use one in a trainingrun and I was like checks out,
(26:57):
like if I lived in Europe Iwould also be, you know, using
poles all the time.
Yeah, but I think there's a lotof ways that you can have more
racing, like more big race racesin the U?
S, or like they don't have tobe big.
But you know, we just like putall our attention on these, like
certain ones, and I think thatEurope has a really awesome way
of just having so many thatallow runners to really find
their niche and be good atcertain things and not just like
I'm a sub ultra runner Causereally.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
What does that mean?
Yeah, so much range.
You know, are you?
Are you a VK guy or?
Gal Are you a mountain classicathlete or you know, and then
really, then there's everythingup into the marathon and it's
like there's a that's a lot ofsubultra.
So yeah.
I don't know, it's, it's um.
I think there's definitely aspace for it in the United
States.
I think we just need to.
so like Colorado is a tough spotto have one, unless you were to
(27:39):
do it Like, for instance, liketelluride, I throw this out this
idea out on the podcast all thetime and no one's taken me up
on it yet, so I might just doit's.
It's like telluride is theperfect place for cause you can
get, cause it goes up to thetram and you can start at the
base, and I think it's like4,000 something feet of climbing
and like four or five miles,Like that's perfect.
(27:59):
Um, so there's so manydifferent spots, and then
Jackson with rendezvous.
Um, you know, have you everthought about doing Mount
Washington?
Cause that would be, that wouldbe your alley.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, I would have loved to this year, but
obviously it's like a wholeprocess of getting in it's hard.
Yeah, I think that I will tryto do get in this next year or
like event, just start liketrying the process of getting in
.
Um, uh, because I do again lovethe east, like I have such a
background with the east andit'd be really cool to go back
and get to do races there andit's kind of such an iconic race
(28:29):
.
Um, I this year was going totry to the race to the top of
Mount Mansfield, you know, tothe top of Vermont.
A little bit smaller race butlike, again, that's that's my
you know college days rightthere, uh, but I was in Europe
for the uphill finals for that,and so I'll have to do that one
again.
Uh, maybe next year.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I'll do it, or some future I'll do it.
You would be Joe Gray'sfavorite athlete.
I'm going to tell you that'slike his jam, he like loves, he
talked, he said, brought up therace to the top of.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Vermont.
One time I'm like what are youtalking about?
I didn't even know that was arace.
No, he's been an awesome person.
Just, I mean, I haven't evenofficially, maybe I've met him
like once when he was here.
Our paths have not crossed, buthe has been such like a mentor
he doesn't even know it, butbecause he is one of the only us
athletes who really was likeI'm an uphill athlete and like
not just a VK athlete.
That's very different than likean uphill long distance, you
(29:19):
know, and he's good at both,obviously.
But um, and so a lot of theseraces that I've found in a lot
of like how they've gottenpopularity is they?
You know, their claim to fameis like Joe has raced, so he's
raced it clearly like I shoulddo it.
Um, but this year has made mereally interested in kind of.
You know, I haven't been doinglike I had a maybe a goal of
(29:41):
being like putting out all thiscontent of being like here the
most famous or like the the mustdo uphill races, which during
the season got really crazy.
It's hard to keep up.
But um, I think it would be coolto like work with Joe and some
of the other uphill athletes andlike really kind of formulate
some sort of content or likebook or something that's like a
circuit, about how uphillrunning is, you know, up and
(30:02):
coming in the U S and it's.
It's such a cool thing andthere are a lot of uphill only
athletes I've met who reallyjust do the uphills, whether
that's for injury or whatever,but no one really talks about it
in the U S.
They're kind of just likewhere's the next 28 K, which is
great, but um, it's not feasibleall the time to be consistently
racing 28 Ks every weekend,like sometimes you can't do the
(30:25):
downhill, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
It's true.
You know what have you um?
Have you met Rena yet?
Rena Schwartz know what?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
oh man, have you um, have you met reena yet?
Reena schwartz?
No, but she is on the trailteam, I and she, um also here
also which.
So I don't know how our pathshaven't crossed yet, but they
will soon, I'm sure lived invermont.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
There's like, yeah, there's like it's from vermont,
I think.
I think she's a bit.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
yeah, I think she might be a bit older than me,
but, um, I am heading out eastin a little bit to potentially
do uh, well, well, I think I'mgoing to do it the uphill
Canadian champs.
Yeah, so maybe when I'm thereI'll reach out to her because
she looks like someone I wouldlove to like get to know and
train with.
Or, you know, um, someday trailteam will meet, I guess.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, she's .
Uh, I think she's going to beat Pikes too.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Oh sweet, okay, okay, then that's where we'll meet.
Might get to meet her thereyeah yeah, um, super cool, super
cool.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah, I, I love that I have I'm seeing more athletes
talking about the uphill stuff,just because I think we we
either need some sort of circuitor series I almost forgot about
loon, too.
Loon's another good one likeloon mountain race, which is
super cool.
But yeah, we could use like a,like an uphill series or
something like that across theus.
I think athletes would getsuper excited over that.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yeah, and like I don't know we have.
We're at such a point right nowwhere we have the ability.
You know, it's like trailrunning is getting big and
there's a lot of, you know,support around it and so people
are, you know, I think a lot ofcompanies too are like how can
we jump in on this?
And I'm like, okay, well,there's already like a golden
trail series, there's already asky running series.
Like you know, if a brandreally wants to do something
(31:54):
cool with it, you know, makemore of like an uphill series
and not just everyone alwaysgoes.
Oh, so VKs, and I'm like,actually I've raced like one VK.
It's actually like you know alot more than that which VKs are
so hard in their own way, um,and I love them, but I'm
definitely more trained rightnow with the base.
I have to do these like biguphill, like three hour, two
(32:14):
hour races, Um, and they can,they can exist.
We have lots of mountains andyou know the West, so you're
going to be so fit for skiseason already.
Like like with all the.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
It'll be cool to see Cause.
Normally I feel like I comeinto ski season being like oh, I
don't know, and like I have alot of base which is cool,
excited for that.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Do you have any big objectives you want to do, like
during ski season, like ski thegrand or do something like that?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
I mean the grand is always up there.
It's not necessarily likesomething I haven't done because
of any sort of reasoning, andjust timing, like whether you
know it's you always.
I kind of just always want to,like, I want to do it on the
right weekend and not just forceit because I have to do it this
year, but I have a feeling thisis going to be the year for
that.
Um.
Yeah, I don't know, I reallygot to sit down.
I've been so busy with all theseother running things that, um,
(33:02):
and as I speak to these newbrands and companies, I really
want to see you know, this iskind of the signing period, but
I want to, yeah, I'd love to seewhat they think and like what
these people I'm talking to wantme to do, or like kind of get
some guidance in that regard,because skiing without having
the competition side of it, I'vefound it's like so much more
broad.
You know it's like what?
What do you do, um?
But I would love to do yeah, Ihave some, you know there's
(33:25):
there's always some some bigones that I'm looking at, um,
and then also I think I wouldlove to dabble a little bit in
the free ride side this year, um, and do some of those free ride
comps, just because I thinkthat can be really helpful to
like for skiing in general, andjust why not, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
Um, all right, back to one morething on pikes.
What's what's going to be theratios?
Like, what do you think you'regoing to wear on race day?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
you know, I've really been.
I've been wearing those, uh,the silence, those arcteryx ones
, which have been really awesome.
Um, I've, like loved usingthose.
They've been great for theuphill, they are super
comfortable.
I did get my hands on a pair ofthe um, the new on super shoe
at trail con which are likereally, really comfortable.
(34:12):
Um, so, considering that, butthey're you know, I they're not
as technical I would say.
I think some people use them onmore technical terrain but, um,
but it's also all uphill, soit's not, it could be a really
nice shoot for that.
Um, so I kind of got to thinkabout that.
This week I'm going to bringboth and and decide.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
But I would go kush and pop whatever's got the best
pop because I have friends thatwear like road shoes for the
ascent and like oh yeah yeah,it's not very, it's not
technical, like there's not.
I don't think there's even none.
There's not one.
I don't think there is anytechnical sections.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
The most technical spots I think are on the w's
like in the first 2 000 feetokay everything else is like a
road, so it's, it's sweet yeah,perfect, then I I kind of was
leaning towards the on ones,just because they are like super
nice for that.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
So I had a buddy shout out to george foster
legend.
He's a used to be a hoka euathlete.
I think I forget who he runsfor now, but he ran the ascent
last year and he wore I don'tknow if you've ever seen the
like the hoka super road shoesthis yellows, yeah and he had
them like shaved down with likea v-brim and he had like a
v-brim outsole like put on themyeah, like they have, like no
(35:17):
stability whatsoever, but justso much cushion and so much pop
for the ascent that I was like,oh man, like that's a, that's a
nifty uphill show.
I was like you could get awaywith that, so yeah good to know
when are you uh headed out tocolor?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Um, I'm actually.
I think we're heading outtomorrow.
My, my family decided they wantto come, uh, because we have
some family who lives inColorado too, and so we're going
to kind of go see them.
And my dad's a big biker, so hereally wants to bike pikes like
the day before, whenever he'sallowed.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
um, or after that.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Uh, and so he, of course, was like I'm coming out,
but they don't get to oftencome to a lot of my races when
they're in europe and um, oreven in the west.
You know, they just they work alot, they're busy, um, and so I
think we're going to try toreally split up the drive,
because it is like nine or tenhours for us, and so splitting
it up in like fives, um, likestarting tomorrow afternoon,
(36:11):
going the next day, giving a day, kind of making a little bit of
a trip out of it, which will benice, um, cause, again, I'm not
often in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So yeah, yeah, that's definitely a smart idea, like
the last time I went up there,like I just did the nice
straight nine hours straight,like right after, and it's, it's
a drain, like it's a long drive.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, and it definitely will be like the way
back.
We're definitely going to.
Well, sunday I guess we'll bedriving.
Um, maybe we'll start Saturday,who knows, but I'm definitely
lucky that my parents are comingbecause make them drive yeah, I
hate driving and because I'mthe athlete like I'm racing, I'm
just going to sit in the back,you know, chill.
Yeah, if they need it, I'llchip in.
But there's two of them, um,and my dogs are coming, like my
(36:49):
childhood dogs, so it'll just beus in the back, chilling.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I love it.
That's awesome.
I'm glad that something we'retrying to do with Pikes Peak is
more family, more fans.
We want everybody there, that'sthe big thing for what we want
to do, so it's exciting to hearthat we'll have family there.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Oh yeah, it looks like the passes sold out.
I mean they couldn't even getone to the very top either, like
my mom was on it, and so she'slike, wow, there's going to be
so many people.
I was like, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
It's a cool race, man Like it's uh, yeah it's
definitely.
Yeah, we're going to have a lotof people I'll be out there
with, with uh on I don't knowabout Saturday, but Sunday with
bring sick people like yellingat people.
Let's go.
Awesome, awesome, love it, yeah, awesome.
(37:37):
Well, andy, wish you the bestof luck.
I hope you have an amazing race.
Uh, I hope you have an awesomeexperience at pike's peak.
I'm super excited that you'reracing it this year and uh, yeah
, I can't wait to hear what youthink about it and I hope you
have an amazing day out therethank you, yeah, have a good one
.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
It's good to see you again you too.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
you too thanks, thanks, thank you.
Going up.
It's just you're constantlywondering if you're going too
hard and if you're going to die.
So, like they say, it's anultimate mental battle.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Is that what keeps bringing you back, year after
year, the ultimate?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
mental battle.
Yeah, I don't care what racersshow up, even if somebody shows
up better than me.
You know this is a test againstyourself.
Everybody that's out here isdoing it and everybody's testing
themselves, and it's great.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's called America's Ultimate Challenge.
Each year, over 2,500 runnersflock to Manitou Springs to
challenge themselves against themountain known as Pike's Peak.
This year, runners from 46different states and eight
foreign countries have come.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
They all start here and make their way towards the
clouds.
It's time.
Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen.
We are live and talk Pike'sPeak and just see what's been
going on.
You just got back from the rut,right?
How was the rut this past?
Speaker 4 (02:05):
week.
Yeah, yeah, it was good.
I kind of have been like reallyloading my schedule in with
racing, as you probably saw, andso the rut was kind of a last
minute throw in, kind of if itwas going to feel good or not.
Definitely didn't feel amazing,but it was.
I love that race and thatweekend like such a cool
experience.
Every time I'm there, um, and Ijust love getting to be part of
(02:25):
it.
You know it's like, aside frombroken arrow, we don't have many
big like running, I guessmammoth too, but I've never been
to mammoth, um, but it wassuper fun either way, really
good training, um, and I cameout of it kind of being like you
know, if this is my first likenot great race of the season,
then I'm very lucky to have hada good season.
So it was good.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, we're going to talk aboutall of your experiences, but
one thing I do.
I got a question for you aboutthe right.
Um, was it weird that they cutit short?
Like for the vertical like,would you have rathered it gone
up to whatever 4,000 feet orwhatever up?
To 3000, something Like I thinkso.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Yeah, I mean in a normal year I mean it was.
It's hard to tell because thisyear, like from the gun, I was
like, okay, my body's a littletired, like I need to chill, but
uh, every vk I've done in theus has gotten cut short this
year because, um, broken air.
I guess it was an ascent, sothat was a bummer.
Um, and I'm all for like,getting to summit, I love when
you get to finish on the top ofsomething and so definitely
(03:19):
bummer.
But I'll be back, I'll do itagain, for sure.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
What did they do?
Did they like you guys finishedand then did they cause I, they
didn't do a live stream thisyear, which was I was really
bummed about, um, but like, didyou guys just like stop like on,
on, like the side, and thenhave to walk down?
Speaker 4 (03:32):
or yeah, oh you, essentially we had to descend
like 800 feet down 28k two yearsago, um, and same thing
happened Like they were alsoworking on the tram then and so
I've never summited lone peak,which is crazy.
But we basically descendedwhere I descended that first
year, which is like this stoop,like super steep, like rocky
(03:55):
kind of dusty area, but it wasfine, cause you know, I got to
talk to people the whole timeand met some people, um, but
yeah, it was definitely crazyhaving to like descend 800 feet
to the chairlift or like walk onlike a flat cat track to get to
the chairlift.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Interesting.
If you don't mind me asking, isit?
Is it super far from Jackson oris it like just as a few hours
right?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
No, it's like three hours three and a half to the
base of big sky resort.
Um, it's like four to Bozeman.
I like to think that Jackson iskind of like the perfect
epicenter, because it's likefour hours from everything,
every big mountain, you know,four hours from park city and
salt Lake.
Uh, from Bozeman, um, I guessit's not close to Colorado, but
from all those other States it'sclose.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Do?
Colorado is so far fromeverything.
I so I drove out.
I was on your neck of the woods, uh, for grand Targi.
Uh, I went out this year andraced it and I was like, dude,
this is so far, this is like a12.
I was like, nah, I was in thecar, I think, for like nine
hours or something like that.
So it's not, yeah, it's notclose from Colorado, but it's an
amazing place.
I'm not going to lie, Ishouldn't say it on the day I
(05:02):
drove home, like I went homesaturday after the race and like
I was going over the pass, Iwas like astonished by the
amount of people, like some oflike the trail parking lots.
It was like yo, this is a lotof people, I mean.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Granted, it was labor day weekend, but it was yeah,
this is crazy you'd still think,though I don't know, late in
the summer, you'd hope itwouldn't be crazy yeah but I
think it's just starting to slowdown in areas now, um, but even
then, like there'll be dayswhen it's rainy and I like go
run up the resort and it's likethe trails packed, so I'm like
well really even at the resortdamn yeah, I think it's just
because there's like differenttimes of the year.
(05:35):
You know, like during the summerit's like when a lot of
families can come in.
Right now, this is when a lotof people who are like I want
the, the quiet, and they come,but then it's like not that
quiet.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So is the snow.
The snow should fly pretty soonfor you guys, Right?
It's like I know it snows alittle bit earlier up there than
it does down here.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, it definitely has some of the
tops of the Tetons.
I've gotten a little bit ofsnow I, which is like good and
bad.
I've obviously super excitedfor ski season but I had just,
with the way my season worked, Iwas in Europe for a good
portion of that like dry periodfor the Tetons and so I had some
.
It wasn't super set, but like Ireally wanted to do the picnic
this year and try to set thatwomen, I wasn't like completely
(06:13):
tied to it, but if it worked out, it worked out.
But there's snow in the Grandright now and so I don't know,
we'll see what happens.
Like I'd still love to just godo like a fast, grand effort,
but uh, it gets pretty icy upthere and when it gets snowy and
icy it's not as like, not assafe.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I would think to do a faster effort and so if we get
a mild October, maybe, but it'shard to say, I don't know.
It's that's a tricky one.
Um, all right, let's, let's getinto it.
Let's talk about Europe, yourEuro trip, cause I know you've
raced over in Slovenia, did you?
You were at the trail team campas well in Germany, right or no
?
Yeah, I was, so you did do both.
(06:47):
Talk about that.
Like what was the?
What was it like going fromthis big trail team camp the
week before and then going torace an uphill in Slovenia?
Were you, were you tired goinginto this race?
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And like I luckily had a pretty like awesome Europe
experience.
Not that I haven't not had oneof those before, but, um, you
know, it was definitely adifferent year for me, going in
and focusing mainly on uphillraces, um and like uphill
adventures, and so when I got toEurope, it's like the land for
uphill people pretty much, andso it was hard to not go
overboard.
(07:17):
Um so, cause I did that first Iguess backtracking I did that
first race in Switzerland, um,the bar bar horn.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What is it?
Turtamontal or something likethat.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
It starts in this town called Turtman probably not
pronouncing it right, but um,uh.
And so, starting there, whichwas a race, I had 10,500 feet of
gain all uphill, um, and so,like, starting on that note, and
then, quickly, I went into aweek at Chamonix and so it was
like I just was doing a lot ofuphill and I actually ended up
having my biggest week ever.
Unintentionally, of like, Igained 32,000 feet of climbing
(07:49):
one week and I was like, okay,and I was really lucky because
my body, it seemed to have holdthat, like it's held out.
I like just started feeling alittle bit tired, which is I'm
very lucky for that and so.
But so I wasn't originallygoing to go to um Sylvania, I
was just kind of like, didn'treally think about that, didn't
really?
You know, I didn't want to justgo somewhere just for a small
VK.
I didn't quite realize it waslike an uphill, you know, big
(08:12):
effort, um, not that VKs aresmall, but just like time-wise
and traveling.
And so then I was like, okay,I'm going to go to the Germany
camp, no matter what, um and nomatter what.
And then I saw Andy's email andhe was like anyone want, you
know, last call for the racesand I was like, yeah, absolutely
, like I would love to.
I saw that it was this six mile, 4,000 feet of gain, and I was
(08:33):
like this is perfect, this iswhat I've been doing.
And so I went and it was.
Yeah, it was such a coolexperience to like A be with
Americans again for the firsttime, like I hadn't been around
any Americans, and like, whichis great.
I mean it's awesome, but still,it was cool to like be with all
my friends and then traveltogether to this country that,
like none of us have been to,and it was absolutely amazing,
like.
So I think everyone's beensaying you know, slovenia is
(08:55):
really underrated, it's going toget big, and I can see why,
cause it was pretty spectacular,it was legit, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Let me backtrack a little bit, cause I got.
I got ahead of myself askingabout the trail team stuff, but
I do want to talk to you aboutyour performance at the bar horn
Second place, obviously.
What was it like?
Cause that was, you know that'sa crazy race 10,000 feet of
vertical, like how low do youstart Like?
Do you start like?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
basically at sea level, and then go up, like
where, like what's the bottomand what's the top?
This is crazy Cause I wasthinking about this the other
day.
I was like where, whatelevation did we start?
Because I don't, you know,switzerland can be kind of high,
but I think if we started atlike 2000 feet maybe, um,
nothing crazy, uh.
But then, yeah, it was actuallyanother crazy day because there
was weather at the top, and sothe day before they were like
we're not going to be summitingUm, which I was really bummed
(09:42):
about, because not only was thislike a cool race, but like a
really cool feat, you know, toto summit Barharm, the, the
tallest hikeable peak in theAlps, and um.
And so I kind of went into thatday being like all right, well,
I'm going to go to where itstops, which is still like 9,000
feet.
But then I was like, if I'mfeeling good, I'm going to
(10:06):
summit either way, like I justreally want to get to the top of
this Um, and so I wasdefinitely pretty nervous, but I
think, going into it, I justknew that, it being my biggest
day ever running vert wise, nomatter what, it would have just
been like an awesome day, and soI think for me that works
really well mentally, justhaving that, like you know, that
pressure.
Obviously I'm competitive, butalso just like, go have fun, see
what your body can do.
And I honestly think like itwas a crazy early start.
I was just like half asleep andthen when we started, I just
(10:28):
realized my body felt prettygood, but there was just no real
pressure at the beginning,which I really liked.
It was, like, you know, I kindof just stuck with people and if
someone moved ahead I'd be likeall right, they're having a
good like moment right now.
Like, just keep doing what youcan do.
Um, and you know, after a fewhours, all of a sudden you've
gained like 9,000 feet, or Iguess we ended at like 8,600
(10:49):
feet of climbing and, um, whichwas just so cool, like it was
just super spectacular.
It was a little bit cloudy, buthonestly the weather was great.
Um, and then when we got to thetop, I was just like yeah, that
was awesome.
Obviously, I was really tired.
Didn't quite realize as howtired I was until I like
gathered this group of likeSwiss boys who were just like I
(11:10):
was like I think I'm going to goto the top and they're like
sure, like we'll come with you,um, and so then we all went to
the top, which was like one ofthe hardest things I've ever
done.
I truly like did not die untilwe were halfway up that pitch
and I like call my mom, becausethey like kind of went ahead,
because I was like go ahead, youguys got it.
And I was like mom, I'm goingto die out here.
Like she was like stop beingdramatic and like get to the top
(11:32):
of that mountain and come backdown.
Of course, I mean like shorts,it's like snowing, I just but,
um, we did it, which was awesomeand still like just an awesome
experience, and did it likerelatively fast because I was
just like booking it behind someSwiss boys, but it was super
cool.
Didn't get to see the view, butto know that I just climbed
like 10,500 feet was prettyawesome.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Dude, I don't think I've ever had a 10,000 foot day.
I'm trying to think about this.
I'm like, wow, that's nuts.
Yeah, that's really great.
How did the race unfold for you?
I mean, obviously you got onthe podium super like fantastic
finish, were you?
Were you in any battles?
Well, like, how did that unfold?
Or were you just kind of alonetrying to catch one, and three
was behind you?
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Yeah, I think beginning it was kind of we were
all close together a little bit.
But again I just tried to belike we have 10,000 feet of
climbing ahead of us, Likethere's not.
I didn't really want to be race, Like I'm racing myself,
obviously and I'm pushing myself, but I didn't want to be
thinking about the other girls.
So I guess in the beginning,like I would say, around we had
climbed like 3000 feet.
At this point we were kind ofall in a little circle, Um, and
that the first girl had kind ofgone ahead, but she was in my
(12:37):
vision.
And then there was like thesecond and third girl I guess it
was second and then me, therewas like four of us who were
kind of around each other and itwas a little bit of a battle in
there.
I do remember at one point,like second and third kind of
were around me and like she,like one girl, passed me and in
my head I kept just saying, likeyou know you have time.
Honestly, I went into the daybeing like I'm happy with the
(12:58):
top five, Like just rememberthat you're doing something
really big today.
You've never done this before.
Top five would be awesome.
So I kind of just kept tellingmyself that and just put my head
down and kept grinding, washaving a good time and slowly,
like just caught up with the twoother girls who had passed me
with first still like in mysights, which was awesome, and
then there's kind of this likeflat section I want to say flat,
(13:19):
but like the flattest, like Iguess, a mile of kind of rolling
, which was a little bit of abummer because at this point,
like we've just been likecooking pretty hard up to this,
and so my stomach started kindof hurting because you know the
stomach thing that I have, it'slike the flats can be painful
sometimes when you're breathingthat hard, when you're working
that hard, and so I definitelyhad to slow down a bit on that
(13:42):
part, which was a bummer Cause Ifeel like as a track runner,
that can sometimes be like my,my skill, Um, but I could still
see the first place girl.
But at this point I was kind oflike I'm really happy with how
it's going.
I don't want to like have tostop because I push and, you
know, get sick or something, Um.
So I kind of was just like allright, like I just have to wait
to fuel again until we startclimbing, Cause then my stomach
won't hurt as much.
(14:02):
And uh, so we got to that.
Like you know, you have like amile of like rolling and then
all of a sudden you're gaininganother, like 5,000 feet, and so
I immediately was like, allright, we'll be good.
You know, we got to that part,Um, and that last part was super
hard.
Everyone else had poles, Ididn't.
And I was like, oh, typicalAmerican, Like it'll be fine.
I wish, I wish I had pulled sobadly.
(14:23):
My calves were in so much pain,but it was still really fun.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
So oh my gosh, so cool, so cool, was it?
Uh like, was it the entire waypretty much runnable, or was
there a lot of power?
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Beginning, I would say.
But it's interesting, causewhen you have a race that big,
I've I learned from theEuropeans that they, they do
really lean into that powerhiking or that slow, you know,
like working into it, versuslike blowing up in the beginning
and dying, um, but I would sayit was very runnable in the
beginning and then the end isobviously just like straight up
and some technical sections and,um, yeah, like some running
(14:57):
sections, but I would say likeat that point you're pretty
tired and so the power hikingwas more efficient.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I like it.
I like it.
The reason I ask is becauselike I kind of draw like a
comparison between that and likealmost like a Pike's peak.
Like it's a Pike's peak isyou're probably not hiking until
, I don't know, just above aframe or somewhere in the a
frame range if you will, justbecause of how high up it is.
Um, so I guess there's a lot ofdecent like crossover then,
even though Pikes Peak istechnically pretty fast until
you start to hit the higheraltitude stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, so how?
Um, I don't know what are youthinking, how do you feel going
into this race?
What's the stoke level?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
I'm excited.
I mean I think I've done a lotof training that has led into
this.
Um, definitely, like, obviouslythere's some nerves, having
been a little bit tired at therut and just knowing the season
I've put on my body, but I know,with all of the base that I
have and just really focusing onrecovery this week, I can kind
(15:55):
of bounce back.
I'm excited because I just feellike it's kind of a perfect
combination of everything I'vebeen doing and I think Pikes is,
yeah, it'll be like my kind ofsecond time up that high, which
is crazy, but like Wyomingdoesn't have any 14ers and um,
and the only other one wasShasta.
I skied this winter or spring.
Um, but yeah, I'm reallyexcited, like it's, I think
(16:15):
it'll be super fun.
I have a lot of friends thatI've met throughout the year who
are uphill athletes, who aregoing, and so it's been like
this big accumulation of likewatching all of us train and get
to this one spot and getexcited about it.
Um, obviously I have nervesgoing into everything, but again
trying to have that similarmindset of just like first time
doing it, like my body is youknow exactly where it needs to
be, and just like having funpushing it and really like
(16:38):
focusing on what I can do and,um, I think it should be good.
Have you looked at any splits atall?
Or are you kind of just goingto go off, feel, um, I have.
I talked to some people whohave done it, uh, and, like you
know, I'm going to do a littlebit more about this week.
I try not to be too likethinking about it too much
before, um, but I have looked atsome splits and kind of like
when the golden trail did it andwhen you know other people have
(17:00):
done it, and so I kind of havea relative idea, but I
definitely, as the days getcloser, want to look a little
bit more into that, especiallyfor fueling and stuff.
So, but, yeah, I know I didhear that it can be definitely
fast in the beginning and thenthe end you kind of hit that
like really high.
And that's when peopledescribed it as like you power
hike and then you run it likethere's that rock, I'm going to
(17:21):
run to that rock, that you powerhike and then you run it Like
there's that rock, I'm going torun to that rock and then which
I?
think will be awesome.
I mean, yeah, it's, and that'swhat I love, Like that's what's
been really fun for me, thosedeath marches.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So it's a yeah, it's, it's a good no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I learned from bar horn that starting slow was key.
Like I just started, I was sochill, Like obviously you're
working, but in no world do Iwant to be feeling like I'm
dying because you have such alike.
You have so much race left andyou can really gain on people.
Like people can be minutesahead and just drop.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So oh yeah, people, people die.
Yeah, like there's a good story.
As francesco poopy, the guyswere telling me, like francesco
poopy, in like 2023, likeliterally died on the side of
the trail and like came back tolife and like started catching
people behind, like, uh, once hegot above tree line, like
there's, there's there's somestories of people like having
really tough races and thenresurrecting from the dead, so
(18:31):
it can be yeah yeah, let's talknutrition like what is.
How has your nutrition strategykind of changed, as you've been?
I mean, it's all been uphillraces this year right, so it's
almost you know fueling is veryimportant because of how much
you're burning, especially withall uphill.
Have you adjusted your fuelingstrategy for stuff like that?
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Or, yeah, I think that in the past and why a lot
of this stomach stuff happened.
As I mentioned before, it wasjust my not like, it's just
inability to fuel properly.
It's really challenging comingfrom being a track athlete where
they really teach you nothing,but I've quickly learned that
like liquid carbs and fuel mixeslike that are the A the easiest
on the stomach but also justthe best way you can get carbs
(19:12):
in.
You know, you can like reallypack those mixes in and like sip
on a bottle and have 90 gramsof carbs right there.
And I'm really thirsty.
When I run, I'm not reallyhungry and so I have like loved
doing that.
I'll always bring some.
I have my untapped maple, mynutrition sponsor.
I'll bring those and those areawesome.
But a lot of the times I'llhave like their drink mix or
just like some high carb drinkmix that, um, you know is works
(19:37):
with the stomach.
But I just feel like it's theonly like I actually kind of
crave it during the races andit's just easy to like sip
something and then have a ton ofcarbs in your system versus
like gels and goos are just thehardest things in the world for
me to eat when I'm running.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, it's not fun.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I've tried, like there's some people who can do
it, but I will.
I don't know if I'll ever bethat person.
I used to do like the Mortongels and I just it just was not
awesome for me.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I just started messing with precision.
I guess I like the precisiontaste better than the Martins.
It's like a texture thing.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
No, I agree, and I think precision might be a
little cheaper.
I don't know.
It's all about like that hydrogel component, obviously, and
like what protects the stomachthe most.
But yeah, I've heard greatthings about precision too, so
yeah, oh, good stuff there.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
One thing I didn't get a chance to talk to you
about I think you did it.
It was either right it must'vebeen right after we had our last
conversation was winning theMount Ashland hill climb.
Talk to me about that race,cause that's like a legendary
race.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, it was super awesome, honestly, like such a
great way to open the season,especially because it was just
such a community oriented racebut so competitive still, but
still just like I really youknow after having raced golden
trail a lot, and these likereally high profile race, high
profile but like very focused onthe elites.
I just forgot how much I missed.
Like what made trail runningtrail running is the community,
(20:59):
um, and everyone was so open andwelcoming and I was definitely
nervous because, again, that waslike I my first uphill, like a
long uphill race, um, and itit's very runnable.
I would say I pretty much ranthe whole time, which was a
whole different sort of painbecause I'd never done that
before and that is totallydifferent.
Um, like it's uphill gradewhere it's like two flat test
(21:22):
power hike but you could run itand that like really killed me a
little bit, but it was a reallyawesome experience to start
with, um, yeah, and it was.
You know, I was largely alonepretty much that whole race and
then at the very end I kind oflike thought I had this gap.
That was good, I was startingto bonk a little bit and then at
the very end there's like youhit the mountain and then you
(21:43):
basically have a thousand feetof climbing and the girl, like
the second place girl, was rightbehind me and I was just like
at this point I kind of had amoment where I was like, well,
this is it.
You know, I'm so tired and so Ikind of just like put my head
down and was like, well, if shepasses, she passes.
I think we had like 50 feetleft of climbing.
We were I just like stayed onher, that's all I did, and I
(22:06):
just like had this final surgethat she just didn't have.
Um, and she was like afterwardstalking to me about it, she's
like where'd that come from?
I was like I'm a track runner.
I'm a track runner.
I just I pushed as hard as Icould and won, which was really
awesome.
Um, but just such an incrediblerace.
I mean the the race director'sson is one of the most insane
(22:27):
runners.
I mean I forget how old he is,maybe like 10, 11, and at like
halfway through the race, thiskid comes by the most beautiful
form I've ever seen, passes meand I'm like, oh, he must be
like one of the walkers whostarted early and it's just like
a kid who's just like running,you know.
No, he like got like third, Idon't know insane, so, um, but
(22:48):
it was a really cool bigcommunity of people who are also
really into ski mountaineering,um, just because they live
around the volcanoes and stuff,and so I met a lot of really
cool people.
And, uh, I met a woman whowe've been in touch since she's
going to be racing pikes too,and so that was a really really
awesome race.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
So cool so cool.
Is it?
Does it start in like town andthen like go up to the,
basically go up to I guess their, their local, like ski mountain
?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So it starts like and it's likereally cute little nature area,
kind of like right on theoutskirts of town.
You basically start in thispark and then you run maybe like
half a mile on asphalt and thenyou turn and you're pretty much
on dirt road the whole way andthey also start the bikers like
10 minutes before us.
You know, the whole race islike bikers versus runners.
(23:33):
So it's pretty cool because thewhole time, even being alone, I
had people cheering for me,cheering for people.
It was pretty cool and likethere'd be some moments where
I'd be really tired, but thenI'd see the bikers just grinding
and I was like, well, at leastthat's not me right now.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
It's also fun to catch the bikers.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, but it did make me kind of want to do
it Like I was like I kind ofwish they did a year where it
was like one day is the bike,one day is the run, and then try
to see, like have that overallcategory of course.
But uh, yeah, it was just likethere were so many people out
there, um, and they all justlove it.
You know, anywhere you go intown, people were just like, oh,
why are you here?
And I'd be like, oh, theAshland Hill clan Like, oh, my
(24:10):
gosh, like love that race.
So I uh have been tellingeveryone about it.
I'm like that's one to do forsure.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Interesting.
I got to ask you this Causeyou've had such an interesting
dichotomy this year of you'llget like the whole spread of
American races on the uphillscene and then you've done quite
a few now, like including aWRMA final race.
That's like a European.
What do you like better?
Like the European scene, causeit's different versus the
American scene.
Like what, what?
What do you enjoy more?
(24:36):
I know this is a hard question,but what do you enjoy more and
like what do you think we canadopt from the Europeans that we
can bring into the Americanscene for more uphill racing?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah, I mean, I think I just love it.
Yeah, it's, they're verydifferent, um.
I think what's really fun aboutthe European races right now is
that it's just there's so manyum, and they just have it really
dialed down, but you're notnecessarily like every us race.
I feel like like you're kind ofnot that it's a bad thing, but
racing the same people, or likeit's like there's not a lot of
(25:07):
you're not like meeting a ton ofnew people because it's like
there's only so many Americanraces, whereas in the, you know,
switzerland, I like showed upknowing nobody and I'm obviously
a bit of an extrovert, likelove to talk, and so I just end
up meeting all these people andthey're just so excited to have
Americans there because we justdon't.
You know we have these very setfew races we'll go to or we
(25:29):
prioritize, which is, you know,there's nothing bad about UTMB,
but there's so many other coolraces in Europe that I feel like
get overlooked.
And obviously I think a big partof what the US could do is
bringing more uphill races thataren't just VKs.
You know like we only have VKs,which is awesome, but there's
like plenty of air.
You know, the rendezvous hillclimb is just now getting bigger
.
It's just like bringing in, youknow, some of the pros and um,
(25:51):
it's such a cool race exactly,and people love it and it's like
that grind.
It's really what trail runningis about.
It's the ultimate test of justgrinding the whole time.
Um, and there's so many placesin the US where races like that
could exist.
Someone was telling me thiswoman I met at Ashland that
there's this run in Palm Springs.
I think that goes to the top ofsome peak and it's like 7,000
(26:14):
feet, san Jacinto, maybeSomething like that.
And there's a trend that'll takeyou back down.
There's so much access to it.
I think we have the access toit.
I just think because it's liketrail running is so much newer
in the US, we're really likekind of just getting into that
(26:34):
like sub ultra scene almost, andlike we're not quite adding
onto the uphill scene yet, andyou can totally see that as like
we don't use poles but all ofthe smart Europeans do, and I
can see why now because, oh mygosh, they help so much.
I got to use one in a trainingrun and I was like checks out,
(26:57):
like if I lived in Europe Iwould also be, you know, using
poles all the time.
Yeah, but I think there's a lotof ways that you can have more
racing, like more big race racesin the U?
S, or like they don't have tobe big.
But you know, we just like putall our attention on these, like
certain ones, and I think thatEurope has a really awesome way
of just having so many thatallow runners to really find
their niche and be good atcertain things and not just like
I'm a sub ultra runner Causereally.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
What does that mean?
Yeah, so much range.
You know, are you?
Are you a VK guy or?
Gal Are you a mountain classicathlete or you know, and then
really, then there's everythingup into the marathon and it's
like there's a that's a lot ofsubultra.
So yeah.
I don't know, it's, it's um.
I think there's definitely aspace for it in the United
States.
I think we just need to.
so like Colorado is a tough spotto have one, unless you were to
(27:39):
do it Like, for instance, liketelluride, I throw this out this
idea out on the podcast all thetime and no one's taken me up
on it yet, so I might just doit's.
It's like telluride is theperfect place for cause you can
get, cause it goes up to thetram and you can start at the
base, and I think it's like4,000 something feet of climbing
and like four or five miles,Like that's perfect.
(27:59):
Um, so there's so manydifferent spots, and then
Jackson with rendezvous.
Um, you know, have you everthought about doing Mount
Washington?
Cause that would be, that wouldbe your alley.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, I would have loved to this year, but
obviously it's like a wholeprocess of getting in it's hard.
Yeah, I think that I will tryto do get in this next year or
like event, just start liketrying the process of getting in
.
Um, uh, because I do again lovethe east, like I have such a
background with the east andit'd be really cool to go back
and get to do races there andit's kind of such an iconic race
(28:29):
.
Um, I this year was going totry to the race to the top of
Mount Mansfield, you know, tothe top of Vermont.
A little bit smaller race butlike, again, that's that's my
you know college days rightthere, uh, but I was in Europe
for the uphill finals for that,and so I'll have to do that one
again.
Uh, maybe next year.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I'll do it, or some future I'll do it.
You would be Joe Gray'sfavorite athlete.
I'm going to tell you that'slike his jam, he like loves, he
talked, he said, brought up therace to the top of.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Vermont.
One time I'm like what are youtalking about?
I didn't even know that was arace.
No, he's been an awesome person.
Just, I mean, I haven't evenofficially, maybe I've met him
like once when he was here.
Our paths have not crossed, buthe has been such like a mentor
he doesn't even know it, butbecause he is one of the only us
athletes who really was likeI'm an uphill athlete and like
not just a VK athlete.
That's very different than likean uphill long distance, you
(29:19):
know, and he's good at both,obviously.
But um, and so a lot of theseraces that I've found in a lot
of like how they've gottenpopularity is they?
You know, their claim to fameis like Joe has raced, so he's
raced it clearly like I shoulddo it.
Um, but this year has made mereally interested in kind of.
You know, I haven't been doinglike I had a maybe a goal of
(29:41):
being like putting out all thiscontent of being like here the
most famous or like the the mustdo uphill races, which during
the season got really crazy.
It's hard to keep up.
But um, I think it would be coolto like work with Joe and some
of the other uphill athletes andlike really kind of formulate
some sort of content or likebook or something that's like a
circuit, about how uphillrunning is, you know, up and
(30:02):
coming in the U S and it's.
It's such a cool thing andthere are a lot of uphill only
athletes I've met who reallyjust do the uphills, whether
that's for injury or whatever,but no one really talks about it
in the U S.
They're kind of just likewhere's the next 28 K, which is
great, but um, it's not feasibleall the time to be consistently
racing 28 Ks every weekend,like sometimes you can't do the
(30:25):
downhill, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
It's true.
You know what have you um?
Have you met Rena yet?
Rena Schwartz know what?
Speaker 4 (30:34):
oh man, have you um, have you met reena yet?
Reena schwartz?
No, but she is on the trailteam, I and she, um also here
also which.
So I don't know how our pathshaven't crossed yet, but they
will soon, I'm sure lived invermont.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
There's like, yeah, there's like it's from vermont,
I think.
I think she's a bit.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
yeah, I think she might be a bit older than me,
but, um, I am heading out eastin a little bit to potentially
do uh, well, well, I think I'mgoing to do it the uphill
Canadian champs.
Yeah, so maybe when I'm thereI'll reach out to her because
she looks like someone I wouldlove to like get to know and
train with.
Or, you know, um, someday trailteam will meet, I guess.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, she's .
Uh, I think she's going to beat Pikes too.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Oh sweet, okay, okay, then that's where we'll meet.
Might get to meet her thereyeah yeah, um, super cool, super
cool.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah, I, I love that I have I'm seeing more athletes
talking about the uphill stuff,just because I think we we
either need some sort of circuitor series I almost forgot about
loon, too.
Loon's another good one likeloon mountain race, which is
super cool.
But yeah, we could use like a,like an uphill series or
something like that across theus.
I think athletes would getsuper excited over that.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
Yeah, and like I don't know we have.
We're at such a point right nowwhere we have the ability.
You know, it's like trailrunning is getting big and
there's a lot of, you know,support around it and so people
are, you know, I think a lot ofcompanies too are like how can
we jump in on this?
And I'm like, okay, well,there's already like a golden
trail series, there's already asky running series.
Like you know, if a brandreally wants to do something
(31:54):
cool with it, you know, makemore of like an uphill series
and not just everyone alwaysgoes.
Oh, so VKs, and I'm like,actually I've raced like one VK.
It's actually like you know alot more than that which VKs are
so hard in their own way, um,and I love them, but I'm
definitely more trained rightnow with the base.
I have to do these like biguphill, like three hour, two
(32:14):
hour races, Um, and they can,they can exist.
We have lots of mountains andyou know the West, so you're
going to be so fit for skiseason already.
Like like with all the.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
It'll be cool to see Cause.
Normally I feel like I comeinto ski season being like oh, I
don't know, and like I have alot of base which is cool,
excited for that.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Do you have any big objectives you want to do, like
during ski season, like ski thegrand or do something like that?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
I mean the grand is always up there.
It's not necessarily likesomething I haven't done because
of any sort of reasoning, andjust timing, like whether you
know it's you always.
I kind of just always want to,like, I want to do it on the
right weekend and not just forceit because I have to do it this
year, but I have a feeling thisis going to be the year for
that.
Um.
Yeah, I don't know, I reallygot to sit down.
I've been so busy with all theseother running things that, um,
(33:02):
and as I speak to these newbrands and companies, I really
want to see you know, this iskind of the signing period, but
I want to, yeah, I'd love to seewhat they think and like what
these people I'm talking to wantme to do, or like kind of get
some guidance in that regard,because skiing without having
the competition side of it, I'vefound it's like so much more
broad.
You know it's like what?
What do you do, um?
But I would love to do yeah, Ihave some, you know there's
(33:25):
there's always some some bigones that I'm looking at, um,
and then also I think I wouldlove to dabble a little bit in
the free ride side this year, um, and do some of those free ride
comps, just because I thinkthat can be really helpful to
like for skiing in general, andjust why not, you know.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
Um, all right, back to one morething on pikes.
What's what's going to be theratios?
Like, what do you think you'regoing to wear on race day?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
you know, I've really been.
I've been wearing those, uh,the silence, those arcteryx ones
, which have been really awesome.
Um, I've, like loved usingthose.
They've been great for theuphill, they are super
comfortable.
I did get my hands on a pair ofthe um, the new on super shoe
at trail con which are likereally, really comfortable.
(34:12):
Um, so, considering that, butthey're you know, I they're not
as technical I would say.
I think some people use them onmore technical terrain but, um,
but it's also all uphill, soit's not, it could be a really
nice shoot for that.
Um, so I kind of got to thinkabout that.
This week I'm going to bringboth and and decide.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
But I would go kush and pop whatever's got the best
pop because I have friends thatwear like road shoes for the
ascent and like oh yeah yeah,it's not very, it's not
technical, like there's not.
I don't think there's even none.
There's not one.
I don't think there is anytechnical sections.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
The most technical spots I think are on the w's
like in the first 2 000 feetokay everything else is like a
road, so it's, it's sweet yeah,perfect, then I I kind of was
leaning towards the on ones,just because they are like super
nice for that.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
So I had a buddy shout out to george foster
legend.
He's a used to be a hoka euathlete.
I think I forget who he runsfor now, but he ran the ascent
last year and he wore I don'tknow if you've ever seen the
like the hoka super road shoesthis yellows, yeah and he had
them like shaved down with likea v-brim and he had like a
v-brim outsole like put on themyeah, like they have, like no
(35:17):
stability whatsoever, but justso much cushion and so much pop
for the ascent that I was like,oh man, like that's a, that's a
nifty uphill show.
I was like you could get awaywith that, so yeah good to know
when are you uh headed out tocolor?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Um, I'm actually.
I think we're heading outtomorrow.
My, my family decided they wantto come, uh, because we have
some family who lives inColorado too, and so we're going
to kind of go see them.
And my dad's a big biker, so hereally wants to bike pikes like
the day before, whenever he'sallowed.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
um, or after that.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
Uh, and so he, of course, was like I'm coming out,
but they don't get to oftencome to a lot of my races when
they're in europe and um, oreven in the west.
You know, they just they work alot, they're busy, um, and so I
think we're going to try toreally split up the drive,
because it is like nine or tenhours for us, and so splitting
it up in like fives, um, likestarting tomorrow afternoon,
(36:11):
going the next day, giving a day, kind of making a little bit of
a trip out of it, which will benice, um, cause, again, I'm not
often in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So yeah, yeah, that's definitely a smart idea, like
the last time I went up there,like I just did the nice
straight nine hours straight,like right after, and it's, it's
a drain, like it's a long drive.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, and it definitely will be like the way
back.
We're definitely going to.
Well, sunday I guess we'll bedriving.
Um, maybe we'll start Saturday,who knows, but I'm definitely
lucky that my parents are comingbecause make them drive yeah, I
hate driving and because I'mthe athlete like I'm racing, I'm
just going to sit in the back,you know, chill.
Yeah, if they need it, I'llchip in.
But there's two of them, um,and my dogs are coming, like my
(36:49):
childhood dogs, so it'll just beus in the back, chilling.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I love it.
That's awesome.
I'm glad that something we'retrying to do with Pikes Peak is
more family, more fans.
We want everybody there, that'sthe big thing for what we want
to do, so it's exciting to hearthat we'll have family there.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
Oh yeah, it looks like the passes sold out.
I mean they couldn't even getone to the very top either, like
my mom was on it, and so she'slike, wow, there's going to be
so many people.
I was like, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
It's a cool race, man Like it's uh, yeah it's
definitely.
Yeah, we're going to have a lotof people I'll be out there
with, with uh on I don't knowabout Saturday, but Sunday with
bring sick people like yellingat people.
Let's go.
Awesome, awesome, love it, yeah, awesome.
(37:37):
Well, andy, wish you the bestof luck.
I hope you have an amazing race.
Uh, I hope you have an awesomeexperience at pike's peak.
I'm super excited that you'reracing it this year and uh, yeah
, I can't wait to hear what youthink about it and I hope you
have an amazing day out therethank you, yeah, have a good one
.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
It's good to see you again you too.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
you too thanks, thanks, thank you.
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